:00:35. > :00:40.There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next
:00:41. > :00:43.leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,
:00:44. > :00:49.This man might have something to say about that.
:00:50. > :00:52.Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.
:00:53. > :00:55.So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?
:00:56. > :01:00.The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane
:01:01. > :01:03.on the country's second city which has been in the hands of
:01:04. > :01:10.In the East Midlands: from this key clash?
:01:11. > :01:12.Three of our police forces working more closely,
:01:13. > :01:14.but will it mean more bobbies on the beat?
:01:15. > :01:16.And universities fear tougher immigration rules
:01:17. > :01:23.one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords
:01:24. > :01:28.be licensed to help tackle the squalor?
:01:29. > :01:31.And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political
:01:32. > :01:34.panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -
:01:35. > :01:43.The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided
:01:44. > :01:49.The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous
:01:50. > :01:54.Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".
:01:55. > :02:01.This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,
:02:02. > :02:03.announced that she would be running for the leadership.
:02:04. > :02:08.I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,
:02:09. > :02:11.and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is
:02:12. > :02:14.because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support
:02:15. > :02:18.And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures
:02:19. > :02:21.on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.
:02:22. > :02:25.Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me
:02:26. > :02:30.I know head office was besieged with letters in support.
:02:31. > :02:33.I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing
:02:34. > :02:36.of our members, because our members are the most important
:02:37. > :02:45.Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years
:02:46. > :02:47.and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.
:02:48. > :02:56.Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.
:02:57. > :03:03.Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be
:03:04. > :03:08.the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only
:03:09. > :03:13.amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the
:03:14. > :03:17.MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip
:03:18. > :03:21.needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is
:03:22. > :03:33.looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four
:03:34. > :03:36.step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an
:03:37. > :03:38.ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at
:03:39. > :03:44.all. Students of political history know that political parties take a
:03:45. > :03:49.long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is
:03:50. > :03:54.facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us
:03:55. > :03:59.on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am
:04:00. > :04:03.the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the
:04:04. > :04:07.party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common
:04:08. > :04:12.challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the
:04:13. > :04:17.last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I
:04:18. > :04:22.have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time
:04:23. > :04:26.away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done
:04:27. > :04:30.and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be
:04:31. > :04:35.the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very
:04:36. > :04:40.experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step
:04:41. > :04:47.in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night
:04:48. > :04:50.of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want
:04:51. > :05:00.that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party
:05:01. > :05:04.is facing an existential crisis, and I want to make sure that Ukip is on
:05:05. > :05:11.the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We
:05:12. > :05:17.have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to
:05:18. > :05:22.be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne
:05:23. > :05:26.would be an excellent candidate. I thought the 2015 manifesto was the
:05:27. > :05:30.best out of all the political parties. I would be the best
:05:31. > :05:36.candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within
:05:37. > :05:40.the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I
:05:41. > :05:47.could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain
:05:48. > :05:52.Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes,
:05:53. > :05:57.I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the
:05:58. > :06:01.next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership
:06:02. > :06:07.election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the
:06:08. > :06:13.new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the
:06:14. > :06:17.referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar
:06:18. > :06:23.schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have
:06:24. > :06:27.Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of
:06:28. > :06:33.March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a
:06:34. > :06:38.strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a
:06:39. > :06:42.huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party
:06:43. > :06:47.no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working
:06:48. > :06:51.people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to
:06:52. > :06:56.Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the
:06:57. > :07:00.north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class
:07:01. > :07:02.communities right across the country is. There are working-class
:07:03. > :07:17.communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a
:07:18. > :07:20.number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I
:07:21. > :07:22.believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so
:07:23. > :07:25.if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case.
:07:26. > :07:32.I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that
:07:33. > :07:39.called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to
:07:40. > :07:43.move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive
:07:44. > :07:49.Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and
:07:50. > :07:53.concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing
:07:54. > :07:59.my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the
:08:00. > :08:03.game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the
:08:04. > :08:08.candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you
:08:09. > :08:12.keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European
:08:13. > :08:15.Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we
:08:16. > :08:23.would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you
:08:24. > :08:27.think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win
:08:28. > :08:31.female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone
:08:32. > :08:37.out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't
:08:38. > :08:42.think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I
:08:43. > :08:44.wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think
:08:45. > :08:51.the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you
:08:52. > :08:56.win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first
:08:57. > :09:02.couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to
:09:03. > :09:08.factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of
:09:09. > :09:13.the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify,
:09:14. > :09:14.Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us
:09:15. > :09:16.this morning. We won't have to wait too long
:09:17. > :09:19.to find out who Ukip's new leader will be -
:09:20. > :09:29.the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for
:09:30. > :09:33.Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today
:09:34. > :09:41.is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or
:09:42. > :09:49.Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently
:09:50. > :09:56.Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip
:09:57. > :10:03.to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is
:10:04. > :10:11.a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst
:10:12. > :10:17.nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality
:10:18. > :10:21.difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne
:10:22. > :10:25.Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be
:10:26. > :10:32.taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the
:10:33. > :10:39.Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the
:10:40. > :10:50.Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things
:10:51. > :10:54.always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and
:10:55. > :11:02.Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much.
:11:03. > :11:11.But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best
:11:12. > :11:14.secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We
:11:15. > :11:21.have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch
:11:22. > :11:25.there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash
:11:26. > :11:31.we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond
:11:32. > :11:33.May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United
:11:34. > :11:41.Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May
:11:42. > :11:45.2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to
:11:46. > :11:50.start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that
:11:51. > :11:52.leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall
:11:53. > :11:55.see. In June 2014, the group which calls
:11:56. > :11:58.itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's
:11:59. > :12:00.second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced
:12:01. > :12:03.it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state,
:12:04. > :12:05.on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided
:12:06. > :12:14.by Iranian-backed Shia fighters, Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air
:12:15. > :12:19.support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb
:12:20. > :12:37.from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before
:12:38. > :12:41.it destroys them. These are the first steps
:12:42. > :12:44.in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has
:12:45. > :12:49.made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around
:12:50. > :12:54.2 million people means that they established governance,
:12:55. > :12:58.they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone,
:12:59. > :13:01.because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more
:13:02. > :13:06.than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric
:13:07. > :13:10.of another society. It's being billed as the biggest
:13:11. > :13:14.military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest
:13:15. > :13:18.moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces
:13:19. > :13:23.are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south,
:13:24. > :13:28.the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division,
:13:29. > :13:30.trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up
:13:31. > :13:37.of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South,
:13:38. > :13:43.a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused
:13:44. > :13:45.of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying
:13:46. > :13:49.villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel
:13:50. > :13:56.on the ground. To the North West, a corridor
:13:57. > :13:59.has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters,
:14:00. > :14:01.in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed
:14:02. > :14:04.when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle
:14:05. > :14:07.and it's taking place in the outlying villages
:14:08. > :14:09.and there have been some successes and some failures,
:14:10. > :14:12.but the momentum is building. And the real question will be
:14:13. > :14:15.when the attackers get towards the city itself,
:14:16. > :14:19.how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack
:14:20. > :14:26.within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back,
:14:27. > :14:31.on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk,
:14:32. > :14:33.including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds
:14:34. > :14:35.of thousands of families have been rounded up
:14:36. > :14:38.as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody,
:14:39. > :14:43.but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army,
:14:44. > :14:45.the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements,
:14:46. > :14:48.they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not
:14:49. > :14:52.for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want
:14:53. > :14:55.to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni
:14:56. > :15:00.majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have
:15:01. > :15:04.helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis
:15:05. > :15:06.Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something
:15:07. > :15:10.from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames
:15:11. > :15:13.and was then carved up, it is because that is what is
:15:14. > :15:16.happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut
:15:17. > :15:21.across by other identities such And that means that putting together
:15:22. > :15:31.a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be
:15:32. > :15:37.a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq
:15:38. > :15:40.at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul
:15:41. > :15:43.is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant
:15:44. > :15:47.which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that
:15:48. > :15:50.come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing
:15:51. > :15:52.but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International
:15:53. > :16:02.Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was
:16:03. > :16:05.the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following
:16:06. > :16:20.the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some
:16:21. > :16:30.stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first
:16:31. > :16:33.thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being
:16:34. > :16:36.the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident
:16:37. > :16:45.predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi
:16:46. > :16:51.forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I
:16:52. > :17:00.would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one
:17:01. > :17:03.STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces.
:17:04. > :17:11.June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and
:17:12. > :17:15.they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million
:17:16. > :17:20.people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they
:17:21. > :17:23.have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of
:17:24. > :17:28.Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about
:17:29. > :17:31.territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from
:17:32. > :17:39.Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow
:17:40. > :17:43.to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's
:17:44. > :17:46.presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including
:17:47. > :17:52.the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press
:17:53. > :17:58.into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the
:17:59. > :18:05.caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into
:18:06. > :18:09.Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from
:18:10. > :18:15.people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important
:18:16. > :18:20.principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a
:18:21. > :18:26.common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi
:18:27. > :18:31.government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis
:18:32. > :18:33.especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are
:18:34. > :18:40.difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very
:18:41. > :18:44.detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario
:18:45. > :18:52.will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps,
:18:53. > :19:01.refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that
:19:02. > :19:04.is where money, British money, ?40 million has gone recently into
:19:05. > :19:12.supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The
:19:13. > :19:14.United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one
:19:15. > :19:18.third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what
:19:19. > :19:23.is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee
:19:24. > :19:28.can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian
:19:29. > :19:33.fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen
:19:34. > :19:36.it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in
:19:37. > :19:42.about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has
:19:43. > :19:46.been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the
:19:47. > :19:49.accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and
:19:50. > :19:53.we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are
:19:54. > :19:58.right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is
:19:59. > :20:00.asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this
:20:01. > :20:05.week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city
:20:06. > :20:10.have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high
:20:11. > :20:16.in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can
:20:17. > :20:19.imagine the different scenarios, it could be a few thousand and it could
:20:20. > :20:22.be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line
:20:23. > :20:27.where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen
:20:28. > :20:31.those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and
:20:32. > :20:35.transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The
:20:36. > :20:38.people working on this have been working on this for long time, we
:20:39. > :20:45.have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in
:20:46. > :20:48.place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other
:20:49. > :20:53.areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan.
:20:54. > :20:56.It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the
:20:57. > :21:03.preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably
:21:04. > :21:08.be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken,
:21:09. > :21:14.the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the
:21:15. > :21:18.rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the
:21:19. > :21:24.second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be
:21:25. > :21:29.rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni
:21:30. > :21:37.community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are
:21:38. > :21:39.right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt
:21:40. > :21:43.excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad
:21:44. > :21:51.government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State
:21:52. > :21:55.coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a
:21:56. > :22:00.stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing
:22:01. > :22:05.structures are in place. The UK's response is twofold, we have got to
:22:06. > :22:08.get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might
:22:09. > :22:13.be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is
:22:14. > :22:18.working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul
:22:19. > :22:23.we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the
:22:24. > :22:28.Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant,
:22:29. > :22:33.it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in
:22:34. > :22:40.Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is,
:22:41. > :22:45.if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to
:22:46. > :22:49.look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its
:22:50. > :22:55.terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a
:22:56. > :22:59.group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it
:23:00. > :23:05.changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things. In
:23:06. > :23:10.2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when
:23:11. > :23:13.it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past
:23:14. > :23:18.it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.
:23:19. > :23:22.There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it
:23:23. > :23:26.will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the
:23:27. > :23:30.United States -- that could. They say that is something they have
:23:31. > :23:35.focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism
:23:36. > :23:43.security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe
:23:44. > :23:49.say. One final question. -- say. -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could
:23:50. > :23:54.add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?
:23:55. > :24:00.Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the
:24:01. > :24:03.biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the
:24:04. > :24:07.reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee
:24:08. > :24:12.camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --
:24:13. > :24:15.put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is
:24:16. > :24:18.their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that
:24:19. > :24:23.means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the
:24:24. > :24:27.medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an
:24:28. > :24:31.economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK
:24:32. > :24:37.National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and
:24:38. > :24:41.terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence
:24:42. > :24:58.Secretary. Does Labour support British
:24:59. > :25:02.participation in this offensive? We fully support the participation in
:25:03. > :25:07.this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this
:25:08. > :25:11.back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I
:25:12. > :25:17.was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive
:25:18. > :25:20.but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that
:25:21. > :25:27.has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full
:25:28. > :25:32.stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity
:25:33. > :25:35.and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn
:25:36. > :25:37.has said. What's been done in Iraq
:25:38. > :25:39.is done by the Iraqi government, and currently
:25:40. > :25:41.supported by the British government. I did not support it
:25:42. > :25:43.when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful
:25:44. > :25:47.it's been, because most of the action now appears to be
:25:48. > :25:59.moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.
:26:00. > :26:01.The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory
:26:02. > :26:07.Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous
:26:08. > :26:11.offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to
:26:12. > :26:16.be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.
:26:17. > :26:21.Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things
:26:22. > :26:27.have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is
:26:28. > :26:31.working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.
:26:32. > :26:35.We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk
:26:36. > :26:39.operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are
:26:40. > :26:46.living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question
:26:47. > :26:50.shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last
:26:51. > :26:54.major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of
:26:55. > :26:59.Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because
:27:00. > :27:05.we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It
:27:06. > :27:08.is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as
:27:09. > :27:11.Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the
:27:12. > :27:17.city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was
:27:18. > :27:22.about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special
:27:23. > :27:27.forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a
:27:28. > :27:39.strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq
:27:40. > :27:52.of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we
:27:53. > :27:54.can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they
:27:55. > :28:00.are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time
:28:01. > :28:03.we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.
:28:04. > :28:09.I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next
:28:10. > :28:15.manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will. We
:28:16. > :28:18.made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will
:28:19. > :28:21.honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that
:28:22. > :28:25.is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has
:28:26. > :28:31.been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote
:28:32. > :28:37.up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy
:28:38. > :28:41.and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK
:28:42. > :28:46.to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral
:28:47. > :28:50.disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.
:28:51. > :28:55.Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has
:28:56. > :29:00.happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been
:29:01. > :29:05.taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the
:29:06. > :29:08.conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to
:29:09. > :29:15.Trident -- vote. The review can't change that? There is a process of
:29:16. > :29:21.review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do
:29:22. > :29:25.this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We
:29:26. > :29:31.are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main
:29:32. > :29:33.strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we
:29:34. > :29:37.have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure
:29:38. > :29:41.that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we
:29:42. > :29:47.should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing
:29:48. > :29:49.humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court
:29:50. > :29:57.over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat
:29:58. > :30:02.imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let
:30:03. > :30:03.us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European
:30:04. > :30:10.initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain
:30:11. > :30:13.should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.
:30:14. > :30:19.Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle
:30:20. > :30:21.being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria
:30:22. > :30:25.has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's
:30:26. > :30:28.five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,
:30:29. > :30:31.in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English
:30:32. > :30:35.channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest
:30:36. > :30:38.surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought
:30:39. > :30:41.to be preparation for a final assault
:30:42. > :30:45.on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting
:30:46. > :30:49.resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -
:30:50. > :30:54.with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's
:30:55. > :30:57.rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been
:30:58. > :31:00.killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,
:31:01. > :31:04.backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned
:31:05. > :31:12.Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow
:31:13. > :31:14.of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support
:31:15. > :31:17.of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided
:31:18. > :31:22.on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied
:31:23. > :31:24.with domestic politics, President Putin senses this
:31:25. > :31:28.is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former
:31:29. > :31:36.Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master
:31:37. > :31:50.of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC
:31:51. > :31:56.studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to
:31:57. > :32:01.get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the
:32:02. > :32:06.commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New
:32:07. > :32:11.York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.
:32:12. > :32:16.Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in
:32:17. > :32:23.control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles
:32:24. > :32:27.wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it
:32:28. > :32:36.inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what
:32:37. > :32:42.President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce
:32:43. > :32:46.bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the
:32:47. > :32:51.Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when
:32:52. > :32:57.the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they
:32:58. > :33:02.went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking
:33:03. > :33:08.about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of
:33:09. > :33:12.the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The
:33:13. > :33:16.purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and
:33:17. > :33:22.then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more
:33:23. > :33:26.complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there
:33:27. > :33:30.was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so
:33:31. > :33:34.many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of
:33:35. > :33:44.the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been
:33:45. > :33:47.rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?
:33:48. > :33:50.Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier
:33:51. > :33:56.steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,
:33:57. > :34:02.both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved
:34:03. > :34:08.in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the
:34:09. > :34:12.ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the
:34:13. > :34:19.aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the
:34:20. > :34:23.rebel controlled area does fall, it would be seen as a great victory for
:34:24. > :34:28.President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia
:34:29. > :34:33.here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan
:34:34. > :34:40.that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia
:34:41. > :34:43.went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.
:34:44. > :34:48.President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or
:34:49. > :34:53.its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the
:34:54. > :34:59.argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the
:35:00. > :35:07.only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue
:35:08. > :35:15.argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.
:35:16. > :35:19.They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence
:35:20. > :35:27.at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to
:35:28. > :35:33.push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.
:35:34. > :35:38.Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.
:35:39. > :35:43.The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted
:35:44. > :35:48.by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there
:35:49. > :35:59.is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that
:36:00. > :36:03.part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to
:36:04. > :36:09.admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric
:36:10. > :36:14.from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are
:36:15. > :36:18.an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in
:36:19. > :36:25.the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging
:36:26. > :36:29.with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the
:36:30. > :36:35.place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in
:36:36. > :36:40.the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a
:36:41. > :36:44.country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is
:36:45. > :36:50.now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important
:36:51. > :36:55.message. Looking at the economy. It is in recession. GDP has been
:36:56. > :37:00.falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on
:37:01. > :37:05.hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling
:37:06. > :37:11.again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its
:37:12. > :37:16.GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy.
:37:17. > :37:26.Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it
:37:27. > :37:32.help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy
:37:33. > :37:37.was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of
:37:38. > :37:42.the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one
:37:43. > :37:47.hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort
:37:48. > :37:55.out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be
:37:56. > :38:00.danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential
:38:01. > :38:04.election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel
:38:05. > :38:09.he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so
:38:10. > :38:11.well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very
:38:12. > :38:13.much. We say goodbye to viewers
:38:14. > :38:23.in Scotland who leave us now In the East Midlands: A step towards
:38:24. > :38:26.an East Midlands Police force? Three forces agree
:38:27. > :38:29.to work more closely. Changing how the police work -
:38:30. > :38:31.will greater cooperation between the And could Brexit put the brakes
:38:32. > :38:40.on our fast-growing universities? The students who come
:38:41. > :38:42.in here are genuine, motivated, and want to succeed,
:38:43. > :38:47.and not necessarily, certainly Hello, I'm Marie Ashby,
:38:48. > :38:52.and casting their eyes over the political week
:38:53. > :38:54.here in the East Midlands are Edward Garnier,
:38:55. > :38:56.the Conservative MP for Harborough, and Roger Helmer, a Ukip MEP
:38:57. > :38:59.representing the East First, let's look at some
:39:00. > :39:06.of the voting patterns and polls Safe seats for the Conservatives
:39:07. > :39:12.and Labour respectively in this Edward Garnier, your party didn't do
:39:13. > :39:16.as well as expected. Yes, and the new member
:39:17. > :39:26.of Parliament got the same majority as David Cameron got
:39:27. > :39:30.when he first stood for that seat, way back in 2005,
:39:31. > :39:32.so that is all right. But by-elections are by-elections
:39:33. > :39:36.and every Government I am sure every Opposition member
:39:37. > :39:40.will say how dreadful The Liberal Democrats
:39:41. > :39:43.are getting wildly overexcited. We are 18% percentage points ahead
:39:44. > :39:52.of the Labour Party nationally. The Liberal Democrats had eight
:39:53. > :39:54.seats on Wednesday night and they have got eight
:39:55. > :39:56.seats on Sunday morning. I am sure the leader
:39:57. > :39:59.of the Liberal Democrats is very overexcited,
:40:00. > :40:00.but, frankly, I don't think there is much to read
:40:01. > :40:04.from the Whitney by-election, other than the fact that
:40:05. > :40:06.a Conservative MP was replaced Since Roger is here,
:40:07. > :40:14.I could say that Ukip, the poor dears, lost their deposit,
:40:15. > :40:16.but that would be terribly rude. Ukip are slipping in
:40:17. > :40:18.the polls, though, Roger. Have all the recent events,
:40:19. > :40:22.and has that altercation Let's be honest, we had a terrible
:40:23. > :40:26.week, in which a newly elected leader of the party decided not
:40:27. > :40:30.to go ahead with the position, and in which two of my colleagues
:40:31. > :40:34.behaved in a way which I think most I think perhaps they are
:40:35. > :40:38.ashamed of it as well. We had a bad week, and I am sure
:40:39. > :40:41.that had some impact. But both of these two by-election
:40:42. > :40:44.results we are looking One is a former Prime Minister,
:40:45. > :40:49.and the other one is following a real tragedy,
:40:50. > :40:51.when the major Opposition party took I think the conclusion we can draw
:40:52. > :40:59.from those two by-elections No, I think Steven Woolfe
:41:00. > :41:05.is possibly in a crisis. And there are those
:41:06. > :41:10.who might think that So, would you fancy
:41:11. > :41:13.going for leader? I mean, you are a long serving
:41:14. > :41:15.member of the party. I appreciate the invitation,
:41:16. > :41:18.but I think... I was just asking whether you
:41:19. > :41:22.would like to go for it. It is a bigger job than I would wish
:41:23. > :41:26.to take over at my time of life. The other point I would make
:41:27. > :41:32.is that we are seeing more and more arguments around Brexit,
:41:33. > :41:34.about how Brexit should be done. So the need for Ukip and for a clear
:41:35. > :41:38.voice saying we want out of the European Union,
:41:39. > :41:41.with no conditions, please, is stronger
:41:42. > :41:43.than ever. Next, three police forces covering
:41:44. > :41:47.the East Midlands have announced that they're
:41:48. > :41:49.going to work more closely. Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire
:41:50. > :41:51.and Northamptonshire will look at combining resources
:41:52. > :41:54.to become more efficient. But will it mean more
:41:55. > :41:56.bobbies on the beat, and is it a step towards
:41:57. > :41:59.an East Midlands police force? Here's our political
:42:00. > :42:03.editor, Tony Roe. There was a time when
:42:04. > :42:05.policing was local. In the days of the Nottingham city
:42:06. > :42:08.force, a powerful Chief Constable and ex-military man called
:42:09. > :42:12.Athelstan Popkess ruled with a rod An innovator, the city had the first
:42:13. > :42:17.police dogs and the first cars We have, of course, moved
:42:18. > :42:25.on from the days of the 1920s police box made famous
:42:26. > :42:27.by Doctor Who. They even had a gas lamp on top
:42:28. > :42:30.to summon the police. They were made redundant
:42:31. > :42:33.when phone boxes came in. And people may not like it,
:42:34. > :42:36.but we have moved on from stopping The type of crime the police
:42:37. > :42:40.are needed for has changed. When did you last see
:42:41. > :42:51.a policeman on your street? Never.
:42:52. > :42:57.Oh, yeah, but they weren't just patrolling.
:42:58. > :42:59.I have not seen a PC on the beat, as such.
:43:00. > :43:04.I can't recall seeing a policeman on my street.
:43:05. > :43:08.And would you know how to contact the police if you needed to?
:43:09. > :43:12.I don't know the number, but, yes, I get by, yeah.
:43:13. > :43:17.I think there is another number that you can ring, but I haven't
:43:18. > :43:24.When you ring 111, or whatever it is...
:43:25. > :43:36.I think the whole point of this is that we shouldn't know
:43:37. > :43:46.There are even fewer police stations.
:43:47. > :43:48.They are being closed around the country to save money.
:43:49. > :43:52.Not all will be saved like this one, which will be open to people
:43:53. > :43:58.This is now part of the Galleries of Justice in Nottingham.
:43:59. > :44:01.Next year, it will be renamed the National Justice Museum.
:44:02. > :44:03.Will we ever have a national police force?
:44:04. > :44:10.The plan now is forces working together with greater collaboration,
:44:11. > :44:15.There was a time when serious crimes like murder would mean
:44:16. > :44:18.And during the miners' strike, they were flying police in
:44:19. > :44:23.from all over the country to combat the pickets.
:44:24. > :44:25.And, just in case you're wondering, the number to ring for
:44:26. > :44:29.111 will get you the NHS helpline, though.
:44:30. > :44:31.So what's driving the plans for more cooperation
:44:32. > :44:37.Here's the Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire, Sue Fish.
:44:38. > :44:39.I think we see crime changing quite significantly,
:44:40. > :44:41.and it has been doing that for some time.
:44:42. > :44:44.The internet has absolutely transformed how we police,
:44:45. > :44:50.And that does not respect geographic boundaries.
:44:51. > :44:52.I think, again, the threat around terrorism continues
:44:53. > :44:58.to evolve and change, and challenge us.
:44:59. > :45:01.The threats that are posed by child sexual exploitation...
:45:02. > :45:04.Let's be honest, the public purse is tight.
:45:05. > :45:10.We are bringing in a new cadre of recruits next month in November,
:45:11. > :45:13.and that is really exciting, because it has been two years now,
:45:14. > :45:18.and we have had to stop recruiting because it has not been affordable.
:45:19. > :45:24.And one of the reasons why we cannot afford to recruit is because of
:45:25. > :45:29.the level of cooperation that has saved the money.
:45:30. > :45:33.Let's find out more about this with Willy Bach, the Labour Police
:45:34. > :45:35.and Crime Commissioner for Leicestershire and Rutland.
:45:36. > :45:37.So, how far will this co-operation go?
:45:38. > :45:39.Are we talking about eventual merger of forces?
:45:40. > :45:46.At a time of reduced resources, it is really just a sensible thing
:45:47. > :45:48.to do, to bring together, for example, back office staff, IT,
:45:49. > :45:58.You work together if you can to save money, so that you can do
:45:59. > :46:01.the things in your own locality that you really need to do.
:46:02. > :46:07.We have to wait and see what the position is.
:46:08. > :46:10.I hope there will be very few job losses.
:46:11. > :46:13.I have not come into this job in order that other police officers
:46:14. > :46:14.or police staff should lose their jobs.
:46:15. > :46:18.But 500 officers have been lost over the last ten years.
:46:19. > :46:21.Oh, a huge number in my patch in Leicestershire
:46:22. > :46:25.20% less police officers and 20% staff, which is one of the reasons
:46:26. > :46:28.why it is absolutely crucial to collaborate now.
:46:29. > :46:31.So there is still money for local policing.
:46:32. > :46:33.It is local policing, neighbourhood policing that matters
:46:34. > :46:37.Because we heard, didn't we, they are, from Nottingham's
:46:38. > :46:39.Chief Constable Sue Fish, saying that the public
:46:40. > :46:42.So this is what this is about, then, isn't it?
:46:43. > :46:47.As Tony said in his report, there has always been collaboration
:46:48. > :46:49.between police forces, and it makes sense.
:46:50. > :46:51.Across the five East Midlands forces, there is a lot
:46:52. > :46:54.of collaboration on serious organised crime, on murder come
:46:55. > :46:55.of collaboration on serious organised crime, on murder,
:46:56. > :46:58.on forensics and all of that works extremely well.
:46:59. > :47:01.Now, this is it, kind of, practical step, to collaborate a bit
:47:02. > :47:07.And I am only going to go with it if it is practical
:47:08. > :47:12.I am not going with it just for the sake of it.
:47:13. > :47:16.It seems to me that people want to see their own police forces
:47:17. > :47:20.Edward Garnier, tri-force cooperation, as it has been called,
:47:21. > :47:23.might be good news if our police forces are becoming more efficient.
:47:24. > :47:26.But if it is because they are having to make cuts,
:47:27. > :47:31.I do not know what the reason for it is, but it is a sensible
:47:32. > :47:35.The Army has, let's say, ten tank regiments, and they do not
:47:36. > :47:39.The MoD buys the tanks and distributes them.
:47:40. > :47:40.They may all fight in different places.
:47:41. > :47:42.Similarly, the Leicestershire and the other two police
:47:43. > :47:45.forces seems to be, let's all buy their cars from the same
:47:46. > :47:47.place and distribute them sensibly amongst the three police forces.
:47:48. > :48:02.Willy and I have had a discussion about a spate of shop thefts...
:48:03. > :48:04.Yes, because you have been talking about this very recently
:48:05. > :48:08.I do not mind where Willy buys his police cars,
:48:09. > :48:11.but what I want is to make sure that he distributes the police
:48:12. > :48:14.officers and the investigators so that they are concentrating
:48:15. > :48:17.on places like Market Harborough and rural Harborough...
:48:18. > :48:19.So why don't you give them more money to do
:48:20. > :48:23.Speaking to a former Labour minister who
:48:24. > :48:32.The serious point is that at a time of financial constraint,
:48:33. > :48:35.every public organisation has to think about how
:48:36. > :48:40.And I think administrative cooperation between the forces,
:48:41. > :48:42.not just the three forces we have been talking about, but right
:48:43. > :48:45.across the East Midlands, is a sensible idea if it frees up
:48:46. > :48:48.money to allow police officers to be there
:48:49. > :48:52.Roger Helmer, Ukip policy is for more cooperation,
:48:53. > :48:55.but fewer PCCs like Willy Bach, but it is people like
:48:56. > :48:57.Willy Bach you are driving through this collaboration.
:48:58. > :49:02.Well, I think we can well do that with cooperation between police
:49:03. > :49:03.forces without necessarily creating additional administrative posts.
:49:04. > :49:06.I think in principle, the idea of local policing is excellent.
:49:07. > :49:14.Clearly, the idea of combining back office functions to increase
:49:15. > :49:16.efficiency and therefore you have more money
:49:17. > :49:20.I think there is an outbreak of consensus on that point.
:49:21. > :49:24.But I would be very interested to know whether Willy has a view
:49:25. > :49:26.about the opinion expressed by the Leicestershire force that
:49:27. > :49:27.perhaps they should not investigate burglaries
:49:28. > :49:31.where the householder has not locked up.
:49:32. > :49:40.My view is, as is the Leicestershire police force's, of course
:49:41. > :49:42.you investigate all burglaries, whether of domestic
:49:43. > :49:47.That is progress. Thank you.
:49:48. > :49:50.Derbyshire's police Chief Constable Mick Creedon tells
:49:51. > :49:52.us that his force is not considering joining this alliance.
:49:53. > :49:57.I mean, actually what he has told us is that there is no
:49:58. > :49:59.financial benefit to them, but they are keen to collaborate.
:50:00. > :50:02.Is it disappointing that Derbyshire won't come to the party,
:50:03. > :50:05.I'm hoping that in due course Derbyshire in the venture will.
:50:06. > :50:12.I am watching as one of the three PCCs, to see that the suggestions
:50:13. > :50:15.that come through from full business cases, as they are called,
:50:16. > :50:23.It was once called, this three for staying, strategic alliance.
:50:24. > :50:26.That was much too highfalutin a phrase for what is a bit of
:50:27. > :50:34.It is made necessary, I'm afraid, by the huge,
:50:35. > :50:38.huge cuts that were made to all three police forces over
:50:39. > :50:42.What about the people in our report who basically said that...
:50:43. > :50:45.Some of them actually said they had never seen a police officer
:50:46. > :50:48.Does that matter, Edward Garnier, that there are not bobbies
:50:49. > :50:51.on the beat, and not as visible as they used to be?
:50:52. > :50:54.Because policing has changed, hasn't it?
:50:55. > :50:57.Visible policing creates confidence amongst the law-abiding public,
:50:58. > :51:00.and that is again what we want to see in Market Harborough.
:51:01. > :51:03.Clearly, even if you are in the Metropolitan Police in London,
:51:04. > :51:05.where there are 20, or 30,000 police officers,
:51:06. > :51:07.the chances of a police officer coming across a burglary red-handed
:51:08. > :51:09.during his working hours is very, very slight.
:51:10. > :51:12.But what we do need is intelligent deployment of police officers.
:51:13. > :51:19.This is difficult in big rural areas.
:51:20. > :51:22.In market towns like Market Harborough...
:51:23. > :51:26.Most of the bad guys, I am afraid, and most of the easy crime
:51:27. > :51:33.So it is difficult for the Chief Constable to deploy his forces
:51:34. > :51:36.where everyone would like them, but we do need, and I hope that this
:51:37. > :51:38.collaboration between the three forces on admin will allow
:51:39. > :51:43.the Chief Constable and Willy to distribute police officers.
:51:44. > :51:45.Edward is quite right that the average police officer
:51:46. > :51:49.on the beat is unlikely to come across a burglary in the act
:51:50. > :51:52.The visible policing on the street is a great deterrent to burglary
:51:53. > :51:58.It is no good to say, he will not catch the odd criminal.
:51:59. > :52:00.He will deter crime to a considerable extent.
:52:01. > :52:03.He can help deter crime, but of course a lot of criminal does
:52:04. > :52:06.not happen on the street in the way that it used to happen.
:52:07. > :52:09.We all know about the terrible amount of child sexual
:52:10. > :52:12.We know about how grooming takes place.
:52:13. > :52:16.The police have very limited resources, and have got to use those
:52:17. > :52:20.Personally, I am absolutely committed to visible policing.
:52:21. > :52:27.What people want is to see police in their town.
:52:28. > :52:31.But I'm afraid that the resources are such that police cannot forget
:52:32. > :52:35.the other jobs that they have got to do to protect us all.
:52:36. > :52:37.And it is very important that they know how
:52:38. > :52:39.to get in touch with the police, as well.
:52:40. > :52:42.That has got to be a priority.
:52:43. > :52:47.999 in an emergency, and 101 in other cases.
:52:48. > :52:49.Thank you very much for doing that for me.
:52:50. > :52:51.They're economic powerhouses, employing tens of thousands
:52:52. > :52:55.of people and pumping billions into the East Midlands economy.
:52:56. > :52:57.No, they're not high-flying businesses, they're universities.
:52:58. > :53:00.Across the region they've been through spectacular growth
:53:01. > :53:02.in the last ten years, but now senior academics are worried
:53:03. > :53:07.that the Government's crackdown on immigration could threaten that.
:53:08. > :53:12.Here's our political reporter, Tim Parker.
:53:13. > :53:16.You would be forgiven for thinking it is boomtime for our universities.
:53:17. > :53:18.There is a serious amount of building work going on here at
:53:19. > :53:24.Also, up at Leicester University and at Nottingham.
:53:25. > :53:26.Loughborough University is considering spending ?40 million
:53:27. > :53:32.Last year, Derby and Nottingham Trent University open
:53:33. > :53:38.But is all of this construction work going to be worth it if plans
:53:39. > :53:42.by the Home Secretary to tighten up on student visas goes ahead?
:53:43. > :53:45.In her recent speech, the Tory party conference speech,
:53:46. > :53:48.the Home Secretary Amber Rudd talking about student
:53:49. > :53:51.immigration rules said, the current system allows students
:53:52. > :53:54.irrespective of their talents and the University's quality
:53:55. > :53:58.favourable employment prospects when they stop studying.
:53:59. > :54:03.She questions whether that is adding value to our economy.
:54:04. > :54:06.Now, she goes on to say it is not about pulling up the drawbridge,
:54:07. > :54:09.but that is not the impression that some of our universities
:54:10. > :54:15.It has been coming out for the last seven, eight or nine years,
:54:16. > :54:17.but I really do feel that universities now have
:54:18. > :54:20.That the students who come in here are genuine, motivated,
:54:21. > :54:25.And not necessarily, and certainly the majority, not in the UK.
:54:26. > :54:28.They want to go home and take their new skills
:54:29. > :54:33.And it is not just University staff who have concerns.
:54:34. > :54:36.The students at De Monfort University in Leicester
:54:37. > :54:40.from inside and outside the EU say that the vote to leave
:54:41. > :54:44.My friends and I were so disgusted, because,
:54:45. > :54:49.Well, it belongs to the European Union.
:54:50. > :54:52.It is weird to think that it is going to get out
:54:53. > :54:55.Yeah, we will need a passport to come and...
:54:56. > :55:02.For future generations, I would still encourage them to come
:55:03. > :55:06.here, because you get to meet people from all over and exchange ideas.
:55:07. > :55:08.To come here and have the intelligent experience,
:55:09. > :55:18.Studying abroad is always the best choice to make.
:55:19. > :55:23.What we are looking for is messaging that supports the fact that the UK
:55:24. > :55:28.is indeed not just open but welcoming to international students.
:55:29. > :55:31.That they do bring something that we in the UK, as well as in
:55:32. > :55:35.Universities across the region will be hoping their expanding
:55:36. > :55:39.campuses can still welcome students from the EU,
:55:40. > :55:44.and run the world, whatever the eventual Brexit deal.
:55:45. > :55:48.So, Edward Garnier, there are around 26,000 foreign
:55:49. > :55:50.students at universities in the East Midlands, generating
:55:51. > :55:55.The universities want a positive message from Government
:55:56. > :55:57.about foreign students, and that doesn't seem
:55:58. > :56:01.Well, I think at the moment while they are trying to work out
:56:02. > :56:05.Don't get me on "Brexit means Brexit".
:56:06. > :56:08.But whilst we are trying to work out how we are going to leave
:56:09. > :56:10.the European Union, and whether we will
:56:11. > :56:12.have a stupid departure or an intelligent departure...
:56:13. > :56:14.Soft or hard, I think they are saying.
:56:15. > :56:19.Stupid or better or intelligent, is the better phrasing.
:56:20. > :56:24.It is confusing for universities and for students.
:56:25. > :56:28.I would want to see Britain open to trade and I want to see it open
:56:29. > :56:30.to intellectual research and scientific research
:56:31. > :56:34.and so forth, and I want to see foreign students coming to make use
:56:35. > :56:36.of our brilliant universities here in the East Midlands.
:56:37. > :56:38.But it is confusing, then, isn't it?
:56:39. > :56:40.When there are reports this week that the Chancellor Philip Hammond
:56:41. > :56:45.He says he wants students to be counted in immigration
:56:46. > :56:49.I thought it was the other way around.
:56:50. > :56:51.But you are demonstrating the confusion.
:56:52. > :56:54.I do not think this sort of confusion is helpful.
:56:55. > :56:57.I wish the Government was more clear about what it meant,
:56:58. > :57:01.You are correct, actually, it is the other way around.
:57:02. > :57:05.That will either confuse the correction or correct the confusion.
:57:06. > :57:08.But the short point is that we have superb universities right
:57:09. > :57:11.across the UK and particularly here in the East Midlands,
:57:12. > :57:14.and in the county of Leicestershire as well.
:57:15. > :57:17.I want to see students from Europe and I want to see students
:57:18. > :57:20.from across the world coming to our universities.
:57:21. > :57:24.Both because they then go home and think well of our country,
:57:25. > :57:27.but also because they bring money into this country and it creates
:57:28. > :57:29.a form of internationalism which I think is very important.
:57:30. > :57:32.I happen to be a trustee of a thing called the China
:57:33. > :57:36.Oxford Scholarship Fund, which brings about 10-20 Chinese
:57:37. > :57:40.postgraduates and Hong Kong postgraduates to Oxford every year.
:57:41. > :57:42.So you can see the benefits of that
:57:43. > :57:47.What I do not see the benefit of is an absence of certainty,
:57:48. > :57:50.and that I'm afraid is going to continue until the Government
:57:51. > :57:53.We are almost agreeing with each other here.
:57:54. > :57:56.I think it is critical that the Government is clear
:57:57. > :58:01.We need to understand that education is a vitally visible
:58:02. > :58:06.We must not allow anything to stand in its way and the student
:58:07. > :58:08.who comes here for, say, three years and then goes home
:58:09. > :58:11.is entirely different to an economic migrant who comes intending to live
:58:12. > :58:16.So we have got to focus on reassuring the universities
:58:17. > :58:20.that we want them to continue to educate foreign students...
:58:21. > :58:23.Saw how will an EU student be able to come here post Brexit?
:58:24. > :58:26.On exactly the same basis as a Chinese student or a Japanese
:58:27. > :58:31.We need some kind of arrangement for student visas, but the important
:58:32. > :58:36.thing is that we are reassured that on completion of their course,
:58:37. > :58:39.either they go home, as Edward has suggested,
:58:40. > :58:44.or they may well wish to stay here, and this educated person may wish
:58:45. > :58:49.In that case, they should be subject to the same selection criteria that
:58:50. > :58:52.would apply to anybody else seeking to come into our country.
:58:53. > :58:55.And if they are contributing to our economy, we should be
:58:56. > :58:59.I think we are agreeing with each other.
:59:00. > :59:02.The problem we face at the moment is that the Government have yet
:59:03. > :59:06.to work out what they intend to achieve by the end of March,
:59:07. > :59:08.Throughout this period, we will have confusion.
:59:09. > :59:13.It is aggravated by ministers saying different things,
:59:14. > :59:16.and then being told by number ten they should not have said
:59:17. > :59:22.I want to see a uniform approach to this and an organised approach,
:59:23. > :59:24.and an approach which is welcoming and internationalist.
:59:25. > :59:27.So, students, as you say, should be able to carry on coming
:59:28. > :59:35.The essence of Brexit is that European students will not be
:59:36. > :59:38.treated in a different way from students from the Commonwealth
:59:39. > :59:43.Like Edward, I too want to see a free
:59:44. > :59:48.We could not be that within the protectionist European Union.
:59:49. > :59:52.Time now for a round-up of some of the other political stories
:59:53. > :00:03.Rushcliffe Borough Council has defended a policy to fine
:00:04. > :00:08.After we revealed the plan last Sunday, there was criticism from
:00:09. > :00:13.The council says that the fines are a last resort and only
:00:14. > :00:18.The East Midlands has the worst hand-over times from ambulances
:00:19. > :00:25.Figures from the Labour Party show that the number of people waiting
:00:26. > :00:28.for more than one hour has trebled in two years.
:00:29. > :00:30.The debate at Westminster over proposals to close the children
:00:31. > :00:32.heart surgery unit at Leicester's Glenfield Hospital heard
:00:33. > :00:36.cross-party opposition to the plans from East Midlands MPs.
:00:37. > :00:39.If this proposal goes ahead, the East Midlands will be the only
:00:40. > :00:40.region in the country without a children's
:00:41. > :00:49.Businesses affected by construction work on Nottingham's tram
:00:50. > :00:54.system have received ?3.5 million in compensation.
:00:55. > :00:57.The average pay-out was ?27,000, but some companies say
:00:58. > :01:09.That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.
:01:10. > :01:10.Thanks to Edward Garnier and Roger Helmer.
:01:11. > :01:13.Next week, Pauline Latham and Vernon Coaker will be here.
:01:14. > :01:26.go ahead with this policy, I know. And now back to Andrew.
:01:27. > :01:27.So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances
:01:28. > :01:50.With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic
:01:51. > :01:56.State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure
:01:57. > :02:04.in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of
:02:05. > :02:08.Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But
:02:09. > :02:13.curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being
:02:14. > :02:18.driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous
:02:19. > :02:24.here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a
:02:25. > :02:29.government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing
:02:30. > :02:34.Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda
:02:35. > :02:43.around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You smash them somewhere, and they pop
:02:44. > :02:50.up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go
:02:51. > :02:59.somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic
:03:00. > :03:04.oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign
:03:05. > :03:12.fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,
:03:13. > :03:15.to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn
:03:16. > :03:20.that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,
:03:21. > :03:25.with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,
:03:26. > :03:31.if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,
:03:32. > :03:35.that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We
:03:36. > :03:46.knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was
:03:47. > :03:52.categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and
:03:53. > :03:58.categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take
:03:59. > :04:02.tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to
:04:03. > :04:07.fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by
:04:08. > :04:11.that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was
:04:12. > :04:16.intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically
:04:17. > :04:21.imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she
:04:22. > :04:26.cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy
:04:27. > :04:31.are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much
:04:32. > :04:34.leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think
:04:35. > :04:40.it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it
:04:41. > :04:48.is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because
:04:49. > :04:51.Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow
:04:52. > :04:55.Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in
:04:56. > :04:59.the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of
:05:00. > :05:00.people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear
:05:01. > :05:04.what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important
:05:05. > :05:07.for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two
:05:08. > :05:10.years provided for by Article 50 to negotiate both our withdrawal
:05:11. > :05:13.agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,
:05:14. > :05:14.including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,
:05:15. > :05:16.in financial services, that it should tell the House
:05:17. > :05:19.of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement
:05:20. > :05:31.with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end
:05:32. > :05:37.of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an
:05:38. > :05:42.interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade
:05:43. > :05:45.Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15
:05:46. > :05:49.negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future
:05:50. > :05:54.trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible
:05:55. > :05:59.that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a
:06:00. > :06:12.trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are
:06:13. > :06:14.outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important
:06:15. > :06:16.thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely
:06:17. > :06:22.essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now
:06:23. > :06:31.it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part
:06:32. > :06:36.of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a
:06:37. > :06:40.progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade
:06:41. > :06:45.deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all
:06:46. > :06:49.of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope
:06:50. > :06:54.it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will
:06:55. > :07:03.hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we
:07:04. > :07:07.have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is
:07:08. > :07:10.interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls
:07:11. > :07:14.there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now
:07:15. > :07:19.saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single
:07:20. > :07:23.market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,
:07:24. > :07:28.as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a
:07:29. > :07:33.year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income
:07:34. > :07:45.we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public
:07:46. > :07:47.opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but
:07:48. > :07:53.this isn't a price worth paying. Everything tends to be seen through
:07:54. > :07:59.the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.
:08:00. > :08:03.The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free
:08:04. > :08:07.trade between the EU and Canada, and therefore subject to the
:08:08. > :08:12.ratification of all members. Any deal we do will not give us the same
:08:13. > :08:17.access we have at the moment. The question is, how much will it be
:08:18. > :08:22.diminished? It may not be subject to the same ratification process.
:08:23. > :08:28.Absolutely right. Another unbelievably technical point that we
:08:29. > :08:33.still don't know is, if we can get this free-trade deal with the EU at
:08:34. > :08:40.the same time as our Brexit talks and deal, the divorce deal as well
:08:41. > :08:50.as the remarriage deal, then one gets signed off by QM V. The trade
:08:51. > :08:55.deal may still need all 28, all 27, including the people from the
:08:56. > :08:59.Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority of parliament. This is exactly why
:09:00. > :09:04.Theresa May would like the transitional deal to push this one
:09:05. > :09:08.deeper. I was surprised to hear Hilary Benn pushing this line this
:09:09. > :09:13.morning. The remainers have been all over the place. They wanted a vote
:09:14. > :09:17.after Article 50 had been triggered about the deal. Then they wanted a
:09:18. > :09:25.vote before Article 50. Now they are talking about a vote before article
:09:26. > :09:30.Article 50 is triggered about a trade deal. They need to make up
:09:31. > :09:34.their minds about what it is they are pushing for, and what their best
:09:35. > :09:40.hope of obstructing Brexit is, and stick with it. Something else we see
:09:41. > :09:44.through the Brexit lens, which isn't always helpful, is Calais. The
:09:45. > :09:50.French bulldozers will move in tomorrow. We will see some pretty
:09:51. > :09:54.disturbing scenes on the TV. We will see some horrible scenes. The
:09:55. > :09:59.government has handled this very badly. Having passed an amendment in
:10:00. > :10:03.April saying we would take something like 3000 children, a lot of those
:10:04. > :10:07.children have disappeared. Save the Children, one of the charities
:10:08. > :10:16.there, are very worried that people traffickers have been in there, and
:10:17. > :10:18.a lot of those children have vanished. We haven't sent social
:10:19. > :10:24.workers in. No preparations have been made what ever. You are raising
:10:25. > :10:30.an interesting point. We don't know how many we are meant to be taking.
:10:31. > :10:37.The huge argument has arisen over what the age is of some of the ones
:10:38. > :10:42.coming in. Is this another problem for the Home Office? To some extent.
:10:43. > :10:46.Didn't Theresa May 's too well to survive six weeks of this? Amber
:10:47. > :10:51.Rudd has been there for three months. It is clear that the Home
:10:52. > :10:58.Office didn't prepare for this. They didn't prepare for the age
:10:59. > :11:02.verification or when it will go. It needs to be an perfect. We don't
:11:03. > :11:09.know how many we will take, because the Home Office will not say. I want
:11:10. > :11:13.to talk about airport capacity, but I won't, because I don't think we
:11:14. > :11:16.have anything to say about it until the statement on Tuesday from
:11:17. > :11:21.Transport Minister Grayling. When you look at the polls and see the
:11:22. > :11:26.decision on airport runway expansion being kicked into the long grass for
:11:27. > :11:30.a year, are we heading for an early election next year or not? I think
:11:31. > :11:36.Theresa May will do everything she can to avoid it. If there is an
:11:37. > :11:42.election before 2020, it is bound to be about Europe, and that is a much
:11:43. > :11:46.harder case for her to win than just a question of who is the best Prime
:11:47. > :11:51.Minister. She will have a tough time, because it will be a general
:11:52. > :11:56.election about in or out of the single market. Half of her party
:11:57. > :12:01.will peel away. How do she conduct a general election when the likes of
:12:02. > :12:06.Anna Soubry will not stand on the same platform? It will be difficult.
:12:07. > :12:14.But she may reach such a stalemate that she just calls one. No general
:12:15. > :12:18.election next year because it will split the Tory party. There will be
:12:19. > :12:22.won in 2019 when she cannot get Brexit through the House of Commons.
:12:23. > :12:27.You really can have too much of a good thing. I just want to show a
:12:28. > :12:33.little clip of the former Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly
:12:34. > :12:39.last night. Let's just watch this. There he is.
:12:40. > :12:47.Where is the hand? That is the worrying bit! We will no longer be
:12:48. > :12:55.saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair of hands! Can we agree on that?
:12:56. > :13:03.Remarkable that he was once the man most feared by David Cameron! Labour
:13:04. > :13:10.leader 2021. He has hit popular culture in the way that many few
:13:11. > :13:15.politicians do. Charm, gusto, bravery, no worries about being
:13:16. > :13:21.embarrassed. All the things that you don't like about being a politician.
:13:22. > :13:24.We have run out of time. You can get it on social media.
:13:25. > :13:26.Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics tomorrow
:13:27. > :13:30.And I'll be back here next Sunday at the same time.
:13:31. > :14:04.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:05. > :14:06.Everyone's living these amazing lives,
:14:07. > :14:17.You're like a... Different person?
:14:18. > :14:26.Delve deeper. Ordinary Lives continues...
:14:27. > :14:27.They have something on me that I can actually remember.
:14:28. > :14:31.They have something on me that I can actually remember.
:14:32. > :14:36.The final chapter between Gibson and Spector.