15/01/2017

:00:32. > :00:35.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:36. > :00:38.Is the Prime Minister prepared to end Britain's membership

:00:39. > :00:42.of the EU's single market and its customs union?

:00:43. > :00:45.We preview Theresa May's big speech, as she seeks to unite the country

:00:46. > :00:52.Is the press a force for good or a beast that needs taming?

:00:53. > :00:54.As the Government ponders its decision, we speak to one

:00:55. > :00:59.of those leading the campaign for greater regulation.

:01:00. > :01:05.Just what kind of President will Donald Trump be?

:01:06. > :01:09.Piers Morgan, a man who knows him well, joins us live.

:01:10. > :01:12.And in the East Midlands, the council bucking the trend and

:01:13. > :01:14.building new care homes for the elderly.

:01:15. > :01:17.We've a special weather report on the

:01:18. > :01:30.And to help me make sense of all that, three of the finest

:01:31. > :01:32.hacks we could persuade to work on a Sunday - Steve Richards,

:01:33. > :01:40.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme, and you can join

:01:41. > :01:47.So, Theresa May is preparing for her big Brexit speech on Tuesday,

:01:48. > :01:50.in which she will urge people to give up on "insults"

:01:51. > :01:54.and "division" and unite to build, quote, a "global Britain".

:01:55. > :01:57.Some of the Sunday papers report that the Prime Minister will go

:01:58. > :02:00.The Sunday Telegraph splashes with the headline: "May's big

:02:01. > :02:04.gamble on a clean Brexit", saying the Prime Minister

:02:05. > :02:07.will announce she's prepared to take Britain out of membership

:02:08. > :02:12.of the single market and customs union.

:02:13. > :02:14.The Sunday Times has a similar write-up -

:02:15. > :02:17.they call it a "clean and hard Brexit".

:02:18. > :02:20.The Brexit Secretary David Davis has also written a piece in the paper

:02:21. > :02:24.hinting that a transitional deal could be on the cards.

:02:25. > :02:27.And the Sunday Express says: "May's Brexit Battle Plan",

:02:28. > :02:29.explaining that the Prime Minister will get tough with Brussels

:02:30. > :02:32.and call for an end to free movement.

:02:33. > :02:34.Well, let's get some more reaction on this.

:02:35. > :02:36.I'm joined now from Cumbria by the leader

:02:37. > :02:43.of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron.

:02:44. > :02:49.Mr Farron, welcome back to the programme. The Prime Minister says

:02:50. > :02:52.most people now just want to get on with it and make a success of it.

:02:53. > :02:58.But you still want to stop it, don't you? Well, I certainly take the view

:02:59. > :03:02.that heading for a hard Brexit, essentially that means being outside

:03:03. > :03:06.the Single Market and the customs union, is not something that was on

:03:07. > :03:10.the ballot paper last June. For Theresa May to adopt what is

:03:11. > :03:14.basically the large all Farage vision of Britain's relationship

:03:15. > :03:19.with Europe is not what was voted for last June. It is right for us to

:03:20. > :03:22.stand up and say that a hard Brexit is not the democratic choice of the

:03:23. > :03:25.British people, and that we should be fighting for the people to be the

:03:26. > :03:30.ones who have the Seat the end of this process, not have it forced

:03:31. > :03:34.upon them by Theresa May and David Davis. When it comes though dual

:03:35. > :03:37.position that we should remain in the membership of the Single Market

:03:38. > :03:43.and the customs union, it looks like you are losing the argument, doesn't

:03:44. > :03:47.it? My sense is that if you believe in being in the Single Market and

:03:48. > :03:51.the customs union are good things, I think many people on the leave site

:03:52. > :03:56.believe that, Stephen Phillips, the Conservative MP until the autumn who

:03:57. > :04:00.resigned, who voted for Leave but believe we should be in the Single

:04:01. > :04:05.Market, I think those people believe that it is wrong for us to enter the

:04:06. > :04:09.negotiations having given up on the most important part of it. If you

:04:10. > :04:12.really are going to fight Britain's corner, then you should go in there

:04:13. > :04:18.fighting the membership of the Single Market, not give up and

:04:19. > :04:22.whitefly, as Theresa May has done before we even start. -- and wave

:04:23. > :04:26.the white flag. Will you vote against regret Article 50 in the

:04:27. > :04:29.Commons? We made it clear that we want the British people to have the

:04:30. > :04:35.final Seat -- vote against triggering. Will you vote against

:04:36. > :04:41.Article 50. Will you encourage the House of Lords to vote against out

:04:42. > :04:44.Article 50? I don't think they will get a chance to vote. They will have

:04:45. > :04:48.a chance to win the deuce amendments. One amendment we will

:04:49. > :04:52.introduce is that there should be a referendum in the terms of the deal.

:04:53. > :04:55.It is not right that Parliament on Government, and especially not civil

:04:56. > :04:59.servants in Brussels and Whitehall, they should stitch-up the final

:05:00. > :05:03.deal. That would be wrong. It is right that the British people have

:05:04. > :05:10.the final say. I understand that as your position. You made it clear

:05:11. > :05:12.Britain to remain a member of the Single Market on the customs union.

:05:13. > :05:15.You accept, I assume, that that would mean remaining under the

:05:16. > :05:18.jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, continuing free movement

:05:19. > :05:24.of people, and the free-trade deals remained in Brussels' competence. So

:05:25. > :05:29.it seems to me that if you believe that being in the Single Market is a

:05:30. > :05:32.good thing, then you should go and argue for that. Whilst I believe

:05:33. > :05:36.that we're not going to get a better deal than the one we currently have,

:05:37. > :05:39.nevertheless it is up to the Government to go and argue for the

:05:40. > :05:44.best deal possible for us outside. You accept your position would mean

:05:45. > :05:48.that? It would mean certainly being in the Single Market and the customs

:05:49. > :05:51.union. It's no surprise to you I'm sure that the Lib Dems believe the

:05:52. > :05:55.package we have got now inside the EU is going to be of the Nutley

:05:56. > :05:58.better than anything we get from the outside, I accept the direction of

:05:59. > :06:02.travel -- is going to be the Nutley better. At the moment, what the

:06:03. > :06:07.Government are doing is assuming that all the things you say Drew,

:06:08. > :06:10.and there is no way possible for us arguing for a deal that allows in

:06:11. > :06:13.the Single Market without some of those other things. If they really

:06:14. > :06:18.believed in the best for Britain, you would go and argue for the best

:06:19. > :06:24.for Britain. Let's be clear, if we remain under the jurisdiction of the

:06:25. > :06:28.ECJ, which is the court that governs membership of the Single Market,

:06:29. > :06:32.continued free movement of people, the Europeans have made clear, is

:06:33. > :06:37.what goes with the Single Market. And free-trade deals remaining under

:06:38. > :06:41.Brussels' competence. If we accepted all of that is the price of

:06:42. > :06:43.membership of the Single Market, in what conceivable way with that

:06:44. > :06:49.amount to leaving the European Union? Well, for example, I do

:06:50. > :06:53.believe that being a member of the Single Market is worth fighting for.

:06:54. > :06:57.I personally believe that freedom of movement is a good thing. British

:06:58. > :07:01.people benefit from freedom of movement. We will hugely be hit as

:07:02. > :07:05.individuals and families and businesses. Mike I understand, but

:07:06. > :07:11.your writing of leaving... There the butt is that if you do except that

:07:12. > :07:15.freedom of movement has to change, I don't, but if you do, and if you are

:07:16. > :07:20.Theresa May, and the problem is to go and fight for the best deal,

:07:21. > :07:23.don't take it from Brussels that you can't be in the Single Market

:07:24. > :07:29.without those other things as well, you don't go and argue the case. It

:07:30. > :07:32.depresses me that Theresa May is beginning this process is waving the

:07:33. > :07:37.white flag, just as this morning Jeremy Corbyn was waving the white

:07:38. > :07:40.flag when it comes to it. We need a Government that will fight Britain's

:07:41. > :07:43.corner and an opposition that will fight the Government to make sure

:07:44. > :07:50.that it fights. Just explain to our viewers how we could remain members,

:07:51. > :07:56.members of the Single Market, and not be subject to the jurisdiction

:07:57. > :08:00.of the European court? So, first of all we spent over the last many,

:08:01. > :08:03.many years, the likes of Nigel Farage and others, will have argued,

:08:04. > :08:06.you heard them on this very programme, that Britain should

:08:07. > :08:10.aspire to be like Norway and Switzerland for example, countries

:08:11. > :08:13.that are not in the European Union but aren't the Single Market. It is

:08:14. > :08:18.very clear to me that if you want the best deal for Britain -- but are

:08:19. > :08:22.in the Single Market. You go and argue for the best deal. What is the

:08:23. > :08:28.answer to my question, you haven't answered it

:08:29. > :08:32.the question is, how does the Prime Minister go and fight for the best

:08:33. > :08:37.deal for Britain. If we think that being in the Single Market is the

:08:38. > :08:42.right thing, not Baxter -- not access to it but membership of it,

:08:43. > :08:45.you don't wave the white flag before you enter the negotiating room. I'm

:08:46. > :08:49.afraid we have run out of time. Thank you, Tim Farron.

:08:50. > :08:55.The leaks on this speech on Tuesday we have seen, it is interesting that

:08:56. > :09:03.Downing Street has not attempted to dampen them down this morning, in

:09:04. > :09:07.the various papers, do they tell us something new? Do they tell us more

:09:08. > :09:10.of the Goverment's aims in the Brexit negotiations? I think it's

:09:11. > :09:13.only a confirmation of something which has been in the mating really

:09:14. > :09:20.for the six months that she's been in the job. The logic of everything

:09:21. > :09:24.that she's said since last July, the keenness on re-gaining control of

:09:25. > :09:27.migration, the desire to do international trade deals, the fact

:09:28. > :09:31.that she is appointed trade Secretary, the logic of all of that

:09:32. > :09:34.is that we are out of the Single Market, quite probably out of the

:09:35. > :09:38.customs union, what will happen this week is a restatement of a fairly

:09:39. > :09:42.clear position anyway. I think Tim Farron is right about one thing, I

:09:43. > :09:45.don't think she will go into the speech planning to absolutely

:09:46. > :09:52.definitively say, we are leaving those things. Because even if there

:09:53. > :09:55.is a 1% chance of a miracle deal, where you stay in the Single Market,

:09:56. > :09:57.somehow get exempted from free movement, it is prudent to keep

:09:58. > :10:03.hopes on that option as a Prime Minister. -- to keep open that

:10:04. > :10:06.option. She is being advised both by the diplomatic corps and her

:10:07. > :10:09.personal advisers, don't concede on membership of the Single Market yet.

:10:10. > :10:18.We know it's not going to happen, but let them Europeans knock us back

:10:19. > :10:21.on that,... That is probably the right strategy for all of the

:10:22. > :10:26.reasons that Jarlan outlined there. What we learned a bit today is the

:10:27. > :10:29.possibility of some kind of transition or arrangements, which

:10:30. > :10:33.David Davies has been talking about in a comment piece for one of the

:10:34. > :10:37.Sunday papers. My sense from Brexiteers aborting MPs is that they

:10:38. > :10:42.are very happy with 90% of the rhetoric -- Brexit sporting MPs. The

:10:43. > :10:48.rhetoric has not been dampened down by MPs, apart from this transitional

:10:49. > :10:52.arrangement, which they feel and two France, on the one front will

:10:53. > :10:56.encourage the very dilatory EU to spend longer than ever negotiating a

:10:57. > :10:59.deal, and on the other hand will also be exactly what our civil

:11:00. > :11:04.service looks for in stringing things out. What wasn't explained

:11:05. > :11:07.this morning is what David Davies means by transitional is not that

:11:08. > :11:11.you negotiate what you can in two years and then spend another five

:11:12. > :11:16.years on the matter is that a lot of the soul. He thinks everything has

:11:17. > :11:20.to be done in the two years, -- of the matter are hard to solve. But it

:11:21. > :11:25.would include transitional arrangements over the five years.

:11:26. > :11:30.What we are seeing in the build-up is the danger of making these kind

:11:31. > :11:33.of speeches. In a way, I kind of admired her not feeding the media

:11:34. > :11:39.machine over the autumn and the end of last year cars, as Janan has

:11:40. > :11:43.pointed out in his columns, she has actually said quite a lot from it,

:11:44. > :11:47.you would extrapolate quite a lot. We won't be members of the Single

:11:48. > :11:53.Market? She said that in the party conference speech, we are out of

:11:54. > :11:58.European court. Her red line is the end of free movement, so we are out

:11:59. > :12:02.of the Single Market. Why has she sent Liam Fox to negotiate all of

:12:03. > :12:06.these other deals, not that he will succeed necessarily, but that is the

:12:07. > :12:09.intention? We are still in the customs union. You can extrapolate

:12:10. > :12:14.what she will say perhaps more cautiously in the headlines on

:12:15. > :12:17.Tuesday. But the grammar of a big speech raises expectations, gets the

:12:18. > :12:20.markets worked up. So she is doing it because people have said that she

:12:21. > :12:25.doesn't know what she's on about. But maybe she should have resisted

:12:26. > :12:28.it. Very well, and she hasn't. The speech is on Tuesday morning.

:12:29. > :12:30.Now, the public consultation on press regulation closed this

:12:31. > :12:33.week, and soon ministers will have to decide whether to

:12:34. > :12:34.enact a controversial piece of legislation.

:12:35. > :12:37.Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act, if implemented,

:12:38. > :12:39.could see newspapers forced to pay legal costs in libel and privacy

:12:40. > :12:49.If they don't sign up to an officially approved regulator.

:12:50. > :12:52.The newspapers say it's an affront to a free press,

:12:53. > :12:54.while pro-privacy campaigners say it's the only way to ensure

:12:55. > :12:56.a scandal like phone-hacking can't happen again.

:12:57. > :13:02.Ellie Price has been reading all about it.

:13:03. > :13:06.It was the biggest news about the news for decades,

:13:07. > :13:11.a scandal that involved household names, but not just celebrities.

:13:12. > :13:14.They've even hacked the phone of a murdered schoolgirl.

:13:15. > :13:16.It led to the closure of the News Of The World,

:13:17. > :13:26.a year-long public inquiry headed up by the judge Lord Justice Leveson,

:13:27. > :13:29.and in the end, a new press watchdog set up by Royal Charter,

:13:30. > :13:31.which could impose, among other things, million-pound fines.

:13:32. > :13:34.If this system is implemented, the country should have confidence

:13:35. > :13:35.that the terrible suffering of innocent victims

:13:36. > :13:37.like the Dowlers, the McCanns and Christopher Jefferies should

:13:38. > :13:44.To get this new plan rolling, the Government also passed

:13:45. > :13:48.the Crime and Courts Act, Section 40 of which would force

:13:49. > :13:50.publications who didn't sign up to the new regulator to pay legal

:13:51. > :13:54.costs in libel and privacy cases, even if they won.

:13:55. > :13:58.It's waiting for sign-off from the Culture Secretary.

:13:59. > :14:02.We've got about 50 publications that have signed up...

:14:03. > :14:04.This is Impress, the press regulator that's got the backing

:14:05. > :14:10.of the Royal Charter, so its members are protected

:14:11. > :14:13.from the penalties that would be imposed by Section 40.

:14:14. > :14:18.It's funded by the Formula One tycoon Max Mosley's

:14:19. > :14:24.I think the danger if we don't get Section 40 is that

:14:25. > :14:26.you have an incomplete Leveson project.

:14:27. > :14:29.I think it's very, very likely that within the next five or ten years

:14:30. > :14:32.there will be a scandal, there'll be a crisis in press

:14:33. > :14:34.standards, everyone will be saying to the Government,

:14:35. > :14:37."Why on Earth didn't you sort things out when you had the chance?"

:14:38. > :14:39.Isn't Section 40 essentially just a big stick to beat

:14:40. > :14:48.We hear a lot about the stick part, but there's also a big juicy carrot

:14:49. > :14:50.for publishers and their journalists who are members of an

:14:51. > :14:53.They get huge new protections from libel threats,

:14:54. > :14:55.from privacy actions, which actually means they've got

:14:56. > :15:04.a lot more opportunity to run investigative stories.

:15:05. > :15:06.Impress has a big image problem - not a single national

:15:07. > :15:11.Instead, many of them are members of Ipso,

:15:12. > :15:14.the independent regulator set up and funded by the industry that

:15:15. > :15:20.doesn't seek the recognition of the Royal Charter.

:15:21. > :15:24.The male cells around 22,000 each day...

:15:25. > :15:26.There are regional titles too, who, like the Birmingham Mail,

:15:27. > :15:29.won't sign up to Impress, even if they say the costs

:15:30. > :15:33.are associated with Section 40 could put them out of business.

:15:34. > :15:35.Impress has an umbilical cord that goes directly back to Government

:15:36. > :15:37.through the recognition setup that it has.

:15:38. > :15:40.Now, we broke free of the shackles of the regulated press

:15:41. > :15:43.when the stamp duty was revealed 150 years ago.

:15:44. > :15:50.If we go back to this level of oversight, then I think

:15:51. > :15:55.we turn the clock back, 150 years of press freedom.

:15:56. > :15:57.The responses from the public have been coming thick and fast

:15:58. > :15:59.since the Government launched its consultation

:16:00. > :16:02.In fact, by the time it closed on Tuesday,

:16:03. > :16:06.And for that reason alone, it could take months before

:16:07. > :16:11.a decision on what happens next is taken.

:16:12. > :16:13.The Government will also be minded to listen to its own MPs,

:16:14. > :16:20.One described it to me as Draconian and hugely damaging.

:16:21. > :16:22.So, will the current Culture Secretary's thinking be

:16:23. > :16:30.I don't think the Government will repeal section 40.

:16:31. > :16:34.What I'm arguing for is not to implement it, but it will remain

:16:35. > :16:38.on the statute book and if it then became apparent that Ipso simply

:16:39. > :16:41.was failing to work, was not delivering effective

:16:42. > :16:45.regulation and the press were behaving in a way

:16:46. > :16:50.which was wholly unacceptable, as they were ten years ago,

:16:51. > :16:53.then there might be an argument at that time to think well in that

:16:54. > :16:56.case we are going to have to take further measures,

:16:57. > :17:01.The future of section 40 might not be so black and white.

:17:02. > :17:04.I'm told a compromise could be met whereby the punitive parts

:17:05. > :17:08.about legal costs are dropped, but the incentives

:17:09. > :17:11.to join a recognised regulator are beefed up.

:17:12. > :17:14.But it could yet be some time until the issue of press freedom

:17:15. > :17:24.I'm joined now by Max Mosley - he won a legal case against the News

:17:25. > :17:27.Of The World after it revealed details about his private life,

:17:28. > :17:31.and he now campaigns for more press regulation.

:17:32. > :17:39.Are welcome to the programme. Let me ask you this, how can it be right

:17:40. > :17:44.that you, who many folk think have a clear vendetta against the British

:17:45. > :17:48.press, can bankroll a government approved regulator of the press? If

:17:49. > :17:53.we hadn't done it, nobody would, section 40 would never have come

:17:54. > :17:57.into force because there would never have been a regulator. It is

:17:58. > :18:02.absolutely wrong that a family trust should have to finance something

:18:03. > :18:07.like this. It should be financed by the press or the Government. If we

:18:08. > :18:08.hadn't done it there would be no possibility of regulation. But it

:18:09. > :18:35.means we end up with a regulator financed by you, as I say

:18:36. > :18:38.many people think you have a clear vendetta against the press. Where

:18:39. > :18:40.does the money come from? From a family trust, it is family money.

:18:41. > :18:43.You have to understand that somebody had to do this. I understand that.

:18:44. > :18:46.People like to know where the money comes from, I think you said it came

:18:47. > :18:49.from Brixton Steyn at one stage. Ages ago my father had a trust there

:18:50. > :18:52.but now all my money is in the UK. We are clear about that, but this is

:18:53. > :18:59.money that was put together by your father. Yes, my father inherited it

:19:00. > :19:02.from his father and his father. The whole of Manchester once belonged to

:19:03. > :19:07.the family, that's why there is a Mosley Street. That is irrelevant

:19:08. > :19:11.because as we have given the money, I have no control. If you do the

:19:12. > :19:21.most elementary checks into the contract between my family trust,

:19:22. > :19:25.the trust but finances Impress, it is impossible for me to exert any

:19:26. > :19:32.influence. It is just the same as if it had come from the National

:19:33. > :19:36.lottery. People will find it ironic that the money has come from

:19:37. > :19:45.historically Britain's best-known fascist. No, it has come from my

:19:46. > :19:49.family, the Mosley family. This is complete drivel because we have no

:19:50. > :19:55.control. Where the money comes from doesn't matter, if it had come from

:19:56. > :19:59.the national lottery it would be exactly the same. Impress was

:20:00. > :20:05.completely independent. But it wouldn't exist without your money,

:20:06. > :20:08.wouldn't it? But that doesn't give you influence. It might exist

:20:09. > :20:14.because it was founded before I was ever in contact with them. Isn't it

:20:15. > :20:19.curious then that so many leading light show your hostile views of the

:20:20. > :20:25.press? I don't think it is because I don't know a single member of the

:20:26. > :20:29.Impress board. The chairman I have met months. The only person I know

:20:30. > :20:37.is Jonathan Hayward who you had on just now. In one recent months he

:20:38. > :20:42.tweeted 50 attacks on the Daily Mail, including some calling for an

:20:43. > :20:49.advertising boycott of the paper. He also liked a Twitter post calling me

:20:50. > :20:54.Daily Mail and neofascist rag. Are these fitting for what is meant to

:20:55. > :20:58.be impartial regulator? The person you should ask about that is the

:20:59. > :21:02.press regulatory panel and they are completely independent, they

:21:03. > :21:06.reviewed the whole thing. You have probably produced something very

:21:07. > :21:09.selective, I have no idea but I am certain that these people are

:21:10. > :21:14.absolutely trustworthy and independent. It is not just Mr

:21:15. > :21:18.Hayward, we have a tonne of things he has tweeted calling for boycotts,

:21:19. > :21:24.remember this is the man that would be the regulator of these papers.

:21:25. > :21:30.He's the chief executive, that is a separate thing. The administration,

:21:31. > :21:39.the regulator. Many leading light show your vendetta of the press. I

:21:40. > :21:55.do not have a vendetta. Let's take another one. This person is on the

:21:56. > :22:02.code committee. Have a look at this. As someone with these views fit to

:22:03. > :22:06.be involved in the regulation of the press? You said I have a vendetta

:22:07. > :22:11.against the press, I do not, I didn't say that and it is completely

:22:12. > :22:16.wrong to say I have a vendetta. What do you think of that? I don't agree,

:22:17. > :22:27.I wouldn't ban the Daily Mail, I think it's a dreadful paper but I

:22:28. > :22:35.wouldn't ban it. Another Impress code committee said I hate the Daily

:22:36. > :22:39.Mail, I couldn't agree more, others have called for a boycott. Other

:22:40. > :22:44.people can say what they want and many people may think they are right

:22:45. > :22:50.but surely these views make them unfit to be partial regulators? I

:22:51. > :22:54.have no influence over Impress therefore I cannot say anything

:22:55. > :23:00.about it. You should ask them, not me. All I have done is make it

:23:01. > :23:06.possible for Impress to exist and that was the right thing to do. I'm

:23:07. > :23:11.asking you if people with these kind of views are fit to be regulators of

:23:12. > :23:17.the press. You would have to ask about all of their views, these are

:23:18. > :23:23.some of their views. A lot of people have a downer on the Daily Mail and

:23:24. > :23:28.the Sun, it doesn't necessarily make them party pre-. Why would

:23:29. > :23:34.newspapers sign up to a regulator run by what they think is run by

:23:35. > :23:38.enemies out to ruin them. If they don't like it they should start

:23:39. > :23:44.their own section 40 regulator. They could make it so recognised, if only

:23:45. > :23:54.they would make it independent of the big newspaper barons but they

:23:55. > :24:04.won't -- they could make Ipso recognised. Is the Daily Mail

:24:05. > :24:08.fascist? It certainly was in the 1930s. Me and my father are

:24:09. > :24:12.relevant, this whole section 40 issue is about access to justice.

:24:13. > :24:17.The press don't want ordinary people who cannot afford to bring an action

:24:18. > :24:21.against the press, don't want them to have access to justice. I can

:24:22. > :24:27.understand that but I don't sympathise. What would happen to the

:24:28. > :24:33.boss of Ofcom, which regulates broadcasters, if it described

:24:34. > :24:43.Channel 4 News is a Marxist scum? If the press don't want to sign up to

:24:44. > :24:52.Impress they can create their own regulator. If you were to listen we

:24:53. > :24:56.would get a lot further. The press should make their own Levenson

:24:57. > :25:02.compliant regulator, then they would have no complaints at all. Even

:25:03. > :25:06.papers like the Guardian, the Independent, the Financial Times,

:25:07. > :25:13.they show your hostility to tabloid journalism. They have refused to be

:25:14. > :25:17.regulated by Impress. I will say it again, the press could start their

:25:18. > :25:22.own regulator, they do not have to sign... Yes, but Levenson compliant

:25:23. > :25:27.one giving access to justice so people who cannot afford an

:25:28. > :25:30.expensive legal action have a proper arbitration service. The Guardian,

:25:31. > :25:35.the Independent, the Financial Times, they don't want to do that

:25:36. > :25:40.either. That would suggest there is something fatally flawed about your

:25:41. > :25:52.approach. Even these kind of papers, the Guardian, Impress is hardly

:25:53. > :26:01.independent, the head of... Andrew, I am sorry, you are like a dog with

:26:02. > :26:05.a bone. The press could start their own regulator, then people like the

:26:06. > :26:08.Financial Times, the Guardian and so one could decide whether they wanted

:26:09. > :26:12.to join or not but what is absolutely vital is that we should

:26:13. > :26:15.have a proper arbitration service so that people who cannot afford an

:26:16. > :26:20.expensive action have somewhere to go. This business of section 40

:26:21. > :26:25.which you want to be triggered which would mean papers that didn't sign

:26:26. > :26:29.up to Impress could be sued in any case and they would have to pay

:26:30. > :26:37.potentially massive legal costs, even if they win. Yes. This is what

:26:38. > :26:43.the number of papers have said about this, if section 40 was triggered,

:26:44. > :26:50.the Guardian wouldn't even think of investigation. The Sunday Times said

:26:51. > :26:52.it would not have even started to expose Lance Armstrong. The Times

:26:53. > :26:58.journalist said he couldn't have done the Rotherham child abuse

:26:59. > :27:02.scandal. What they all come it is a full reading of section 40 because

:27:03. > :27:08.that cost shifting will only apply if, and I quote, it is just and

:27:09. > :27:12.equitable in all the circumstances. I cannot conceive of any High Court

:27:13. > :27:18.judge, for example the Lance Armstrong case or the child abuse,

:27:19. > :27:23.saying it is just as equitable in all circumstances the newspaper

:27:24. > :27:28.should pay these costs. Even the editor of index on censorship, which

:27:29. > :27:32.is hardly the Sun, said this would be oppressive and they couldn't do

:27:33. > :27:39.what they do, they would risk being sued by warlords. No because if

:27:40. > :27:43.something unfortunate, some really bad person sues them, what would

:27:44. > :27:47.happen is the judge would say it is just inequitable normal

:27:48. > :27:51.circumstances that person should pay. Section 40 is for the person

:27:52. > :27:55.that comes along and says to a big newspaper, can we go to arbitration

:27:56. > :28:00.because I cannot afford to go to court. The big newspaper says no.

:28:01. > :28:04.That leaves less than 1% of the population with any remedy if the

:28:05. > :28:11.newspapers traduce them. It cannot be right. From the Guardian to the

:28:12. > :28:16.Sun, and including Index On Censorship, all of these media

:28:17. > :28:19.outlets think you are proposing a charter for conmen, warlords, crime

:28:20. > :28:24.bosses, dodgy politicians, celebrities with a grievance against

:28:25. > :28:33.the press. I will give you the final word to address that. It is pure

:28:34. > :28:37.guff and the reason is they want to go on marking their own homework.

:28:38. > :28:41.The press don't want anyone to make sure life is fair. All I want is

:28:42. > :28:46.somebody who has got no money to be able to sue in just the way that I

:28:47. > :28:50.can. All right, thanks for being with us.

:28:51. > :28:51.The doctors' union, the British Medical Association,

:28:52. > :28:53.has said the Government is scapegoating GPs in England

:28:54. > :28:58.The Government has said GP surgeries must try harder to stay

:28:59. > :29:00.open from 8am to 8pm, or they could lose out on funding.

:29:01. > :29:03.The pressure on A services in recent weeks has been intense.

:29:04. > :29:06.It emerged this week that 65 of the 152 Health Trusts in England

:29:07. > :29:08.had issued an operational pressure alert in the first

:29:09. > :29:15.At either level three, meaning major pressures,

:29:16. > :29:17.or level four, indicating an inability to deliver

:29:18. > :29:22.On Monday, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt told the Commons

:29:23. > :29:26.that the number of people using A had increased by 9 million

:29:27. > :29:34.But that 30% of those visits were unnecessary.

:29:35. > :29:36.He said that the situation at a number of Trusts

:29:37. > :29:41.On Tuesday, the Royal College of Physicians wrote

:29:42. > :29:43.to the Prime Minister saying the health service was being

:29:44. > :29:49.paralysed by spiralling demand, and urging greater investment.

:29:50. > :29:52.On Wednesday, the Chief Executive of NHS England, Simon Stevens,

:29:53. > :29:58.told a Select Committee that NHS funding will be highly constrained.

:29:59. > :30:02.And from 2018, real-terms spending per person would fall.

:30:03. > :30:06.The Prime Minister described the Red Cross's claim that A

:30:07. > :30:10.was facing a "humanitarian crisis" as "irresponsible and overblown".

:30:11. > :30:13.And the National Audit Office issued a report that found almost half,

:30:14. > :30:20.46%, of GP surgeries closed at some point during core hours.

:30:21. > :30:24.Yesterday, Mrs May signalled her support for doctors' surgeries

:30:25. > :30:27.opening from 8am to 8pm every day of the week, in order to divert

:30:28. > :30:34.To discuss this, I'm joined now by the Conservative

:30:35. > :30:37.MP Maria Caulfield - she was an NHS nurse in a former

:30:38. > :30:40.life - and Clare Gerada, a former chair of the Royal College

:30:41. > :30:50.Welcome to you both. So, Maria Caulfield, what the Government is

:30:51. > :30:55.saying, Downing Street in effect is saying that GPs do not work hard

:30:56. > :30:58.enough and that's the reason why A was under such pressure? No, I don't

:30:59. > :31:01.think that is the message, I think that is the message that the media

:31:02. > :31:06.have taken up. That is not the expression that we want to give. I

:31:07. > :31:11.still work as a nurse, I know how hard doctors work in hospitals and

:31:12. > :31:16.GP practices. When the rose 30% of people turning up at A for neither

:31:17. > :31:21.an accident or an emergency, we do need to look at alternative. Where

:31:22. > :31:24.is the GPs' operability in this? We know from patients that if they

:31:25. > :31:28.cannot get access to GPs, they will do one of three things. They will

:31:29. > :31:31.wait two or three weeks until they can get an appointment, they will

:31:32. > :31:35.forget about the problem altogether, which is not good, we want patients

:31:36. > :31:45.to be getting investigations at early stages, or they will go to

:31:46. > :31:48.A And that is a problem. I'm not quite sure what the role that GPs

:31:49. > :31:50.play in this. What is your response in that? I think about 70% of

:31:51. > :31:53.patients that I see should not be seen by me but should still be seen

:31:54. > :31:58.by hospital consultants. If we look at it from GPs' eyes and not from

:31:59. > :32:02.hospital's eyes, because that is what it is, we might get somewhere.

:32:03. > :32:06.Tomorrow morning, every practice in England will have about 1.5 GPs

:32:07. > :32:12.shot, that's not even counting if there is traffic problems, sickness

:32:13. > :32:15.or whatever. -- GPs shot. We cannot work any harder, I cannot

:32:16. > :32:22.physically, emotionally work any harder. We are open 12 hours a day,

:32:23. > :32:27.most of us, I run practices open 365 days per year 24 hours a day. I

:32:28. > :32:30.don't understand this. It is one thing attacking me as a GP from

:32:31. > :32:34.working hard enough, but it is another thing saying that GPs as a

:32:35. > :32:39.profession and doing what they should be doing. Let me in National

:32:40. > :32:47.Audit Office has coming up with these figures showing that almost

:32:48. > :32:50.half of doctors' practices are not open during core hours at some part

:32:51. > :32:54.of the week. That's where the implication comes, that they are not

:32:55. > :32:59.working hard enough. What do you say to that? I don't recognise this. I'm

:33:00. > :33:03.not being defensive, I'm just don't recognise it. There are practices

:33:04. > :33:06.working palliative care services, practices have to close home visits

:33:07. > :33:10.if they are single-handed, some of us are working in care homes during

:33:11. > :33:17.the day. They may shot for an hour in the middle of the data will sort

:33:18. > :33:19.out some of the prescriptions and admin -- they may shot. My practice

:33:20. > :33:22.runs a number of practices across London. If we shut during our

:33:23. > :33:27.contractual hours we would have NHS England coming down on us like a

:33:28. > :33:31.tonne of bricks. Maria Caulfield, I'm struggling to understand, given

:33:32. > :33:34.the problems the NHS faces, particularly in our hospitals, what

:33:35. > :33:38.this has got to do with the solution? Obviously there are GP

:33:39. > :33:43.practices that are working, you know, over and above the hours. But

:33:44. > :33:48.there are some GP practices, we know from National Audit Office, there

:33:49. > :33:51.are particular black sports -- blackspots in the country that only

:33:52. > :33:55.offer services for three hours a week. That's causing problems if

:33:56. > :34:00.they cannot get to see a GP they will go and use A Nobody is

:34:01. > :34:04.saying that this measure would solve problems at A, it would address

:34:05. > :34:08.one small part of its top blog we shouldn't be starting this, as I

:34:09. > :34:12.keep saying, please to this from solving the problems at A We

:34:13. > :34:15.should be starting it from solving the problems of the patients in

:34:16. > :34:22.their totality, the best place they should go, not from A This really

:34:23. > :34:27.upsets me, as a GP I am there to be a proxy A doctor. I am a GP, a

:34:28. > :34:31.highly skilled doctor, looking after patients from cradle to grave across

:34:32. > :34:36.the physical, psychological and social, I am not an A doctor. I

:34:37. > :34:40.don't disagree with that, nobody is saying that GPs are not working hard

:34:41. > :34:45.enough. You just did, actually, about some of them. In some

:34:46. > :34:50.practices, what we need to see, it's not just GPs in GP surgeries, it is

:34:51. > :34:54.advanced nurse practitioners, pharmacists. It doesn't necessarily

:34:55. > :34:59.need to be all on the GPs. I think advanced nurse practitioners are in

:35:00. > :35:03.short supply. Position associate or go to hospital, -- physician

:35:04. > :35:06.associates. We have very few trainees, junior doctors in general

:35:07. > :35:10.practice, unlike hospitals, which tend to have some slack with the

:35:11. > :35:14.junior doctor community and workforce. This isn't an argument,

:35:15. > :35:17.this is about saying, let's stop looking at the National health

:35:18. > :35:24.system as a National hospital system. GPs tomorrow will see about

:35:25. > :35:29.1.3 million patients. That is a lot of thoughtful. A lot of activity

:35:30. > :35:33.with no resources. If you wanted the GPs to behave better, in your terms,

:35:34. > :35:37.when you allocated more money to GPs, part of the reforms, because

:35:38. > :35:42.that's where it went, shouldn't you have targeted it more closely to

:35:43. > :35:45.where they want to operate? That is exactly what the Prime Minister is

:35:46. > :35:50.saying, extra funding is being made available by GPs to extend hours and

:35:51. > :35:52.services. If certain GP practices cannot do that, the money will

:35:53. > :35:57.follow the patient to where they move onto. We have no doctors to do

:35:58. > :36:00.it. I was on a coach last week, the coach driver stopped in the service

:36:01. > :36:05.station for an hour, they were stopping for a rest. We cannot do

:36:06. > :36:12.it. Even if you gave us millions more money, and thankfully NHS is

:36:13. > :36:14.recognising that we need a solution through the five-day week, we

:36:15. > :36:17.haven't got the doctors to deliver this. It would take a while to get

:36:18. > :36:21.them? That's my point, that's why we need to be using all how care

:36:22. > :36:24.professional. Even if you got this right, would it make a difference to

:36:25. > :36:28.what many regard as the crisis in our hospitals? I think it would. If

:36:29. > :36:33.you look at patients, they just want to go to a service that will address

:36:34. > :36:37.the problems. In Scotland for example, pharmacists have their own

:36:38. > :36:40.patient list. Patients go and see the pharmacists first. There are

:36:41. > :36:45.lots of conditions, for example if you want anticoagulants, you don't

:36:46. > :36:50.necessarily need to see a doctor, a pharmacist can manage that and free

:36:51. > :36:53.up the doctor in other ways. The Prime Minister has said that if

:36:54. > :36:57.things do not change she is threatening to reduce funding to

:36:58. > :37:00.doctors who do not comply. Can you both agree, that is probably an

:37:01. > :37:05.empty threat, that's not going to happen? I hope it's an empty threat.

:37:06. > :37:09.We're trying our best. People like me in my profession, the seniors in

:37:10. > :37:12.our profession, are really trying to pull up morale and get people into

:37:13. > :37:17.general practice, which is a wonderful profession, absolutely

:37:18. > :37:21.wonderful place to be. But slapping us off and telling us that we are

:37:22. > :37:25.lazy really doesn't help. I really don't think anybody is doing that.

:37:26. > :37:28.We have run out of time, but I'm certain that we will be back to the

:37:29. > :37:30.subject before this winter is out. It's just gone 11:35am,

:37:31. > :37:32.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:37:33. > :37:35.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20

:37:36. > :37:46.minutes: The Week Ahead. In the East Midlands,

:37:47. > :37:49.the council building new care homes. Derbyshire bucks a national

:37:50. > :37:51.trend with its latest specialist centre but says it

:37:52. > :37:54.will struggle to build more. We are wasting money

:37:55. > :37:57.keeping people in hospital, which is expensive,

:37:58. > :38:00.when they don't need to be there instead of coming

:38:01. > :38:01.to places like this. And it's looking like

:38:02. > :38:06.a stormy year ahead in politics, so we've got a special

:38:07. > :38:09.weather report on the political Well, predicting the weather

:38:10. > :38:14.is one thing, but forecasting the political outlook,

:38:15. > :38:17.that's a real challenge. I'll be looking at

:38:18. > :38:19.what 2017 could have instore for the region's

:38:20. > :38:21.politicians, the economy, and the big events coming up

:38:22. > :38:24.in the year ahead. My guests for our first week

:38:25. > :38:38.of 2017 are Sir Patrick McLoughlin, the MP for

:38:39. > :38:39.Derbyshire Dales and chairman of the Conservative Party,

:38:40. > :38:41.and Liz Kendall's First, we'll be getting

:38:42. > :38:46.reaction to something Jeremy Corbyn told us this week and it

:38:47. > :38:48.appears to be an entirely new The Labour leader told our political

:38:49. > :38:53.editor, Tony Roe, that a Labour Government would take over

:38:54. > :38:56.the course of the private finance initiatives, which have landed

:38:57. > :38:58.hospitals with billions of pounds of I do think PFI, frankly,

:38:59. > :39:02.was a big mistake. I think it would be much

:39:03. > :39:04.better to invest in those new hospitals by direct public

:39:05. > :39:11.investment and I think that, generally, the public

:39:12. > :39:16.would agree with it and I don't think anybody

:39:17. > :39:17.now So, Liz Kendall, was

:39:18. > :39:22.this a surprise to you? Look, some of the early PFI deals

:39:23. > :39:25.where poor value for money and I think it's important

:39:26. > :39:27.to look at, but, you biggest programme of hospital

:39:28. > :39:32.building in the history of the NHS and we turned Victorian buildings

:39:33. > :39:34.into state-of-the-art NHS Do you agree with

:39:35. > :39:45.Jeremy Corbyn on this? I think it's important

:39:46. > :39:47.that we look at any It's interesting that the health

:39:48. > :39:54.foundation looked at this issue last year and they actually said

:39:55. > :39:57.that the cause of the financial I think the real

:39:58. > :40:00.thing we need to look at is getting more money

:40:01. > :40:03.into the system and look at the Government's

:40:04. > :40:04.failures on the NHS. Patrick McLoughlin,

:40:05. > :40:06.the biggest PFI contract in our region is actually

:40:07. > :40:13.for Kings Mill Hospital in Mansfield, which has a debt

:40:14. > :40:16.of ?2.5 million for a refit which Surely it does make sense

:40:17. > :40:19.to effectively step in and right of that

:40:20. > :40:21.massive amount of debt. Well, it's not about writing it off,

:40:22. > :40:24.it's about what was paid. What Jeremy Corbyn doesn't answer

:40:25. > :40:27.in their quick quip with Tony is where any money was now

:40:28. > :40:35.going to come from, it's still

:40:36. > :40:37.a debt on Government. I think this is a bit too

:40:38. > :40:40.dismissive, saying that all the PFIs were great things and they've

:40:41. > :40:42.done marvellous things. There were some very bad

:40:43. > :40:44.deals and we've been able to renegotiate some of those

:40:45. > :40:47.deals, but there are debts around some of our hospitals

:40:48. > :40:49.and quite a big call on their finances,

:40:50. > :40:50.and that is part of the problem that they're

:40:51. > :40:53.having to address within the house Jeremy Corbyn suggests that it

:40:54. > :40:57.could be paid for by borrowing Is that really a sensible idea

:40:58. > :41:00.in the current climate? any deal that is poor value for

:41:01. > :41:05.money, but the real issue we've got with the health care

:41:06. > :41:07.system is that we're not putting the money

:41:08. > :41:08.into social care so elderly people

:41:09. > :41:11.are getting forced to go into hospital and getting

:41:12. > :41:12.stuck in hospital. That's the good for them and it

:41:13. > :41:15.costs the taxpayer more. The Government has

:41:16. > :41:16.completely failed to Liz, when you're fighting

:41:17. > :41:19.the last general election, when you're on the front bench,

:41:20. > :41:30.you failed to our commitment on the health service, we were told

:41:31. > :41:36.by signing even that an extra ?8 billion was needed, we said

:41:37. > :41:39.we would put that money end, we are putting that money end,

:41:40. > :41:41.we will be putting Well, finds even said

:41:42. > :41:48.this week that the Prime Minister was stretching it to say

:41:49. > :41:52.the NHS had got the money it wanted and, in fact, any said that next

:41:53. > :41:55.year's spending plans on the NHS Staying with health, let's move

:41:56. > :41:59.on now because one East Midlands authority is bucking the national

:42:00. > :42:02.trend by building its own care homes Derbyshire County Council said

:42:03. > :42:06.it means it can help ease pressure on the NHS, but it

:42:07. > :42:08.claims that Government rules will Our political editor

:42:09. > :42:12.Tony Roe has been to visit the Council's

:42:13. > :42:13.newest care home. The number of council-run care

:42:14. > :42:15.homes are dwindling. Here in Derbyshire, they are taking

:42:16. > :42:20.a different approach. Meadowview is built into a hillside

:42:21. > :42:29.at Darley Dale near Matlock. Architecture for the

:42:30. > :42:30.elderly and views they

:42:31. > :42:35.say some of the best Day care is an important part

:42:36. > :42:40.of what they do here. Jane Morris says it's

:42:41. > :42:43.now a highlight of the I am look after very

:42:44. > :42:47.well by my family. I found I couldn't

:42:48. > :42:54.walk, so I came here. At first, you do wonder what it's

:42:55. > :42:57.going to be like and what It wasn't until Mum came that,

:42:58. > :43:00.actually, you realise how good Meadowview provide specialist

:43:01. > :43:03.dementia care, too, contributing to over 140 beds

:43:04. > :43:05.provided by the council. But they also have debts which can

:43:06. > :43:09.take the pressure of stretched hospitals,

:43:10. > :43:10.interim care to get people ready to go home again,

:43:11. > :43:12.ready for independence. This facility has got 16 beds

:43:13. > :43:15.specifically to get people out of hospital, get them skilled

:43:16. > :43:17.and rehabilitated, backed up so they can go home and live

:43:18. > :43:19.independently Now, in a lot of places,

:43:20. > :43:26.then that facility as people either language in hospital longer

:43:27. > :43:33.than they should or they go to a nursing home and sometimes

:43:34. > :43:43.never go home from there. It's a ?10 million

:43:44. > :43:45.capital investment here that kept control

:43:46. > :43:47.of social care in Derbyshire. They believe they found

:43:48. > :43:49.the way that is best for the elderly but the Government, they

:43:50. > :43:52.say, doesn't approve and is making We will be struggling

:43:53. > :43:55.to do this again because we can't use the health and social

:43:56. > :43:58.care budget to support people We are wasting money

:43:59. > :44:01.keeping people in hospital, which is expensive,

:44:02. > :44:04.when they don't need to be there. Social care was missed

:44:05. > :44:08.out of the Chancellor's Last month, councillors

:44:09. > :44:12.were told they can add an extra 3% to council

:44:13. > :44:14.tax bills to help pay for social care over

:44:15. > :44:15.the Each 1% that said only

:44:16. > :44:22.raises 2.7 million. We don't want and we shouldn't

:44:23. > :44:24.be a bill that the It should be sorted

:44:25. > :44:28.out at national level. But in a Commons

:44:29. > :44:30.debate this week, the Health Secretary Jeromy Hunt

:44:31. > :44:35.defended the Government's record in response to criticism

:44:36. > :44:38.from the Shadow Health Secretary, Social care last year,

:44:39. > :44:41.spending went up by He stood on a platform

:44:42. > :44:48.at the last election of not a penny more to local

:44:49. > :44:50.authorities for social care. To stand here as a defender of

:44:51. > :44:58.social care is, frankly, an insult to vulnerable people up and down

:44:59. > :45:12.the country but particularly people living under Labour councils

:45:13. > :45:14.like Hounslow, Merton and Eeling where they are refusing

:45:15. > :45:17.to raise the social care -- precept but complaining

:45:18. > :45:26.about social care funding. There have been called

:45:27. > :45:28.to take the politics out of social care,

:45:29. > :45:30.have an independent commission

:45:31. > :45:31.which discusses the best way forward

:45:32. > :45:32.in The Lib Dems go as far as saying

:45:33. > :45:37.there should be a tax to Others say the real problem

:45:38. > :45:40.is years of cutbacks. Sir Patrick McLoughlin,

:45:41. > :45:42.you have to admit that Meadowview, which we were looking at there,

:45:43. > :45:44.looked Surely it makes sense

:45:45. > :45:47.to allow more councils to build homes themselves rather

:45:48. > :45:49.than relying on the private sector. Well, Meadowview is actually in my

:45:50. > :45:51.constituency, you're quite right, but it was also on the planning

:45:52. > :45:53.by the last administration, the

:45:54. > :45:55.Conservative administration, when the county councils were being run

:45:56. > :45:57.by the Conservatives. I thought the way in

:45:58. > :46:10.which the dismissal of the extra money when it was said that 1%

:46:11. > :46:12.only raised 2.7 million. That's going to be

:46:13. > :46:16.an increase in an Derbyshire can have an increase

:46:17. > :46:17.of over ?8 million therefore

:46:18. > :46:22.in its social care budgets. So, the Government is listening

:46:23. > :46:28.and has made, and will They are raising the

:46:29. > :46:32.council tax, but they There was going to be

:46:33. > :46:36.a question as to how much money you put in

:46:37. > :46:38.and how you use resources But can you see a benefit of

:46:39. > :46:43.Meadowview? You but it's not something

:46:44. > :47:01.that your comment is In fact, people have

:47:02. > :47:04.said they have been too Even though they want

:47:05. > :47:07.to eat the NHS' problems, they have told they should

:47:08. > :47:09.rein back in, basically. It's up to the local authorities

:47:10. > :47:20.what they do with their The problem is keeping elderly

:47:21. > :47:25.people out of hospital. Saving any money, Britney back and social care.

:47:26. > :47:28.My understanding is that when a that plan, the Government said no.

:47:29. > :47:30.There is a real problem here with the

:47:31. > :47:34.Government thinking that the social care

:47:35. > :47:38.precept can fund the gap in

:47:39. > :47:41.In Derbyshire, just like in Leicester, the social care

:47:42. > :47:43.precept only makes up one third of the gap

:47:44. > :47:44.and the real problem is

:47:45. > :47:51.poorer areas are less able to raise money from the social care precept,

:47:52. > :47:53.so, in Leicester, we can raise about ?6.50 per head

:47:54. > :48:05.It will increase inequalities and my constituents

:48:06. > :48:11.Well, we've got to look at social care.

:48:12. > :48:13.We got to look across the whole piece.

:48:14. > :48:15.We asked Sir Simon Stephens how much extra was

:48:16. > :48:26.Before the last general election, he said that those extra ?8 billion

:48:27. > :48:32.We've committed an extra ?10 billion into the health service.

:48:33. > :48:35.People working in the health service are doing a fantastic job at the

:48:36. > :48:36.moment under very, very difficult circumstances.

:48:37. > :48:38.Is something that has happened at different times of a

:48:39. > :48:41.There's always extra pressures on the health service.

:48:42. > :48:45.Well, of course, but you say it's up to local areas to try and look at

:48:46. > :48:48.Nottinghamshire County Council called on the

:48:49. > :48:50.Government to commit an extra ?2.3 billion

:48:51. > :48:51.to social care, which is the

:48:52. > :48:54.saying is needed on top of what the

:48:55. > :48:59.I would expect Nottinghamshire County Council to pass

:49:00. > :49:02.a project like that and say it's got to be found by the Government

:49:03. > :49:05.The simple fact is, we've increased spending on the health

:49:06. > :49:11.service and obviously we've got to look at some of the issues which

:49:12. > :49:13.have come about as a result of some of the things

:49:14. > :49:15.we seen over the past few

:49:16. > :49:18.Miss Kendal, the Government, Jeremy Hunt, is saying there's an

:49:19. > :49:22.extra ?208 million in funding a into social care.

:49:23. > :49:24.And he is allowing councils to raise council tax.

:49:25. > :49:26.Overall, we have seen around ?4.5 billion cut

:49:27. > :49:31.from social care budgets in the Government came.

:49:32. > :49:35.Patrick, I want to see that money got forward.

:49:36. > :49:37.That doesn't come on until 2019 - 20.

:49:38. > :49:39.I also strongly support a cross-party look at one

:49:40. > :49:41.term funding issues for the NHS and social care.

:49:42. > :49:46.It's always going to be political, but I actually think,

:49:47. > :49:48.if you want a long-term solution, we are going

:49:49. > :49:49.to have to get round the

:49:50. > :49:52.We've tried it before, it's very, very difficult.

:49:53. > :50:02.But I've certainly supported calls from Norman Lamb

:50:03. > :50:07.Let's get round the table and look at it.

:50:08. > :50:09.But we do need an immediate cash injection

:50:10. > :50:11.because, otherwise, the system is really going to struggle.

:50:12. > :50:13.Well, the money has been made available.

:50:14. > :50:16.They are saying it's not enough, though,

:50:17. > :50:20.The NHS are saying it's not enough, councils are saying it's not

:50:21. > :50:23.They might we increase and brought forward.

:50:24. > :50:24.We asked how much was needed, recommitted Stewart.

:50:25. > :50:29.Labour did not commit to a 20 was a Labour front

:50:30. > :50:31.bench spokesman on the last general election.

:50:32. > :50:33.They did not commit to that extra funding.

:50:34. > :50:36.We've got to deal with the situation we

:50:37. > :50:39.There's no point in this debate going back and

:50:40. > :50:44.And that's certainly what we have done

:50:45. > :50:47.by the extra ?600 million that Jeremy Hunt has announced by giving

:50:48. > :50:50.By giving local authorities the extra power that

:50:51. > :50:53.they can to raise finance locally and spent that locally.

:50:54. > :50:55.Surely it's time to get round the table, which

:50:56. > :50:57.is what Liz is suggesting, and other people.

:50:58. > :51:01.The last Labour Government spent 30 years at a Royal

:51:02. > :51:07.There's been more talking about this.

:51:08. > :51:14.Are you against getting round a table and talking this?

:51:15. > :51:17.I think there's a lot that we can learn as we need

:51:18. > :51:23.I think the public gets sick about this when they are in an ambulance

:51:24. > :51:25.outside A and they can't get to see their GP.

:51:26. > :51:36.They would like us to get around the table.

:51:37. > :51:38.The Government has got to acknowledge what the state

:51:39. > :51:43.Are you in denial over the state of the NHS currently?

:51:44. > :51:47.We appreciate the tremendous work that

:51:48. > :51:49.there are doctors, nurses, front line staff, paramedics, people

:51:50. > :51:51.involved in the health service are doing.

:51:52. > :51:55.Well, you can see more on the state of the NHS in an Inside

:51:56. > :51:58.Out special programme tomorrow night at 7:30 here on BBC One.

:51:59. > :52:00.Now, as you already seen, 2017 is shaping up to

:52:01. > :52:02.be quite a contentious year in politics,

:52:03. > :52:03.but what does it hold for

:52:04. > :52:06.One person used to predicting the future is East

:52:07. > :52:08.Midlands today weather presenter Alex Hamilton.

:52:09. > :52:11.What you probably don't know is that Alex is also a

:52:12. > :52:15.So, we've asked her to do a special forecast looking at the

:52:16. > :52:17.outlook for the region's political weather for 2017.

:52:18. > :52:19.Well, predicting the weather is one thing but

:52:20. > :52:29.forecasting the ecological outlook is a real challenge.

:52:30. > :52:33.In the East Midlands, we seen some of the

:52:34. > :52:39.highest economic growth outside of London but also some of the lowest

:52:40. > :52:43.Some say Brexit will bring sunshine and blue skies,

:52:44. > :52:45.but others say an economic rainstorm will dampen the region's commercial

:52:46. > :52:48.Several Labour MPs mutinied against Jeremy Corbyn last

:52:49. > :52:52.Now, the winds of political change could blow through the

:52:53. > :52:53.revolving doors of Westminster again,

:52:54. > :52:59.but some familiar faces from the

:53:00. > :53:03.East Midlands may have to stay out in the cold for a little longer yet.

:53:04. > :53:11.Well, there was an icy reception for some East

:53:12. > :53:27.Midlands MPs in Theresa May's new regime but who'd

:53:28. > :53:28.thought that would be in the

:53:29. > :53:32.Reshuffles are notoriously hard to predict but, in the Primate

:53:33. > :53:35.of Brexit, that carousel of high and low pressure around the Cabinet

:53:36. > :53:40.It was a funny picture for much of 2016.

:53:41. > :53:56.When will that blanket of fog lift or not in 2017, the issue is so

:53:57. > :53:59.complex is likely there will be some mist patches surrounding finer

:54:00. > :54:02.And what about the electrification of the

:54:03. > :54:05.Will we be able to get to London at lightning speed?

:54:06. > :54:08.Or will there be a storm over delays to the project?

:54:09. > :54:11.The Government says it is committed, but East Midlands MPs on all sides

:54:12. > :54:15.And talking of rail, building has now started on the rail freight

:54:16. > :54:19.It promises a jet stream of jobs for the East Midlands.

:54:20. > :54:22.Opponents warn of a tornado of environmental problems.

:54:23. > :54:29.Or the lack of it here in the East Midlands?

:54:30. > :54:32.failure to agree with neighbours has left plans final

:54:33. > :54:36.Meanwhile, the sun shines on the devolution deal in

:54:37. > :54:43.Perhaps the Spring will allow new plans for our

:54:44. > :54:45.As we've been hearing, health looks set to

:54:46. > :54:48.Dark clouds seem to gather over some of

:54:49. > :54:58.Warnings about the closure of Glenfield Children's Heart Unit in

:54:59. > :55:00.Leicester and a review of several smaller hospitals could bring

:55:01. > :55:05.We'll have to stay tuned to the forecast to see how

:55:06. > :55:19.A units are under pressure and Emas was named the

:55:20. > :55:21.nation's worst performing and services for hospital handovers.

:55:22. > :55:24.A blizzard of calls in the New Year stretch the service even further.

:55:25. > :55:33.If the inclement conditions continue for Emas,

:55:34. > :55:36.create the perfect storm for the service in 2017.

:55:37. > :55:38.All in all, it's a changeable forecast for the

:55:39. > :55:45.Well, we told you she was a political geek.

:55:46. > :55:54.So, the electrification of the mainline.

:55:55. > :55:56.Patrick, you were Transport Secretary when that was given the

:55:57. > :55:58.again at what a lot of our regional MPs,

:55:59. > :56:00.labour and Conservative, are

:56:01. > :56:02.very concerned now that it would go ahead.

:56:03. > :56:04.Some of the work has already started and some of the

:56:05. > :56:08.changes that one sees as one goes from the trained in Derby to London

:56:09. > :56:11.Some of the double tracking just outside Corby is also

:56:12. > :56:23.Well, the trouble is, when you're working on a

:56:24. > :56:29.railway line which is a live railway line and in operation, it

:56:30. > :56:36.does take longer on those particular project, and we embarked on a huge

:56:37. > :56:38.investment as far as electrification across the country.

:56:39. > :56:46.Liz, your Labour colleague Lilian Green is one who has been very

:56:47. > :56:52.We haven't had a clear commitment about completing the

:56:53. > :56:55.project and, overall, we see nine times as much investment in rail

:56:56. > :56:58.infrastructure in wonder as he do in the East Midlands.

:56:59. > :57:13.Because when you're talking about that, your job and that the

:57:14. > :57:28.King's Cross is serving the east coast.

:57:29. > :57:31.You're quite right, there is a project across rail which is a

:57:32. > :57:32.big project in London, but that is part

:57:33. > :57:34.of the reason, one of the

:57:35. > :57:36.reasons why they've got things like HS2.

:57:37. > :57:44.This Government is committing more to transport than the

:57:45. > :57:46.last previous government ever did.

:57:47. > :57:51.the very past six years, we've done very badly in terms of

:57:52. > :57:56.We have the world's largest cluster of

:57:57. > :57:57.railway companies in the East Midlands.

:57:58. > :58:01.We really need to make the most of it and we need that because

:58:02. > :58:03.they want jobs and growth for the East Midlands

:58:04. > :58:04.to do even better in

:58:05. > :58:08.If the Government wants to balance the economy and get an

:58:09. > :58:10.economy working for everybody, it needs to do more for the East

:58:11. > :58:14.I buy how important infrastructure is.

:58:15. > :58:16.But 30 years of Labour governments, you've done ten

:58:17. > :58:18.miles of electrification in the country.

:58:19. > :58:21.I'd like to say it was at a snails pace.

:58:22. > :58:30.Your New Year's resolution, I believe, is to help

:58:31. > :58:39.We have some of the best clinical app comes as Glenfield.

:58:40. > :58:44.For public consultation, it will be announced later on this one.

:58:45. > :58:49.there working very closely with your hospital and campaigning.

:58:50. > :58:52.I think Liz has done a commendable job on that.

:58:53. > :59:03.I want to see people partake in a public exercise because

:59:04. > :59:06.the question is about heart service across the country and I think it's

:59:07. > :59:08.absolutely vital that this particular issue is...

:59:09. > :59:11.It shouldn't become a party political issue.

:59:12. > :59:14.We've got to make sure we've got the right answer for the region.

:59:15. > :59:18.Time for a round-up of some of the other political

:59:19. > :59:22.stories from the East Midlands this week in 60 seconds.

:59:23. > :59:39.petitions against plans to survey Sherwood Forest for shale gas.

:59:40. > :59:43.A firm wants to scan line under the forest to see if there is

:59:44. > :59:46.Derby is to get a share Government funding to

:59:47. > :59:48.create 9000 free childcare places around the country.

:59:49. > :59:50.The city will get part of ?2 million being

:59:51. > :59:53.allocated to six cold spots where lack of social mobility is a major

:59:54. > :59:58.They are facing higher council tax to pay for

:59:59. > :00:02.The county was when Police and Crime Commissioner wants it to

:00:03. > :00:04.centralise any amount of tax paying towards policing.

:00:05. > :00:07.It would add ?3.50 per year to the average bill and

:00:08. > :00:10.Having failed to agree on its own devolution deal,

:00:11. > :00:12.the East Midlands is now throwing a spanner in the

:00:13. > :00:22.Elections for a mayor there have been put back for more

:00:23. > :00:27.time to consult on by Chesterfield to join the scheme.

:00:28. > :00:29.And that is the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.

:00:30. > :00:32.Thanks to Liz Kendall and Sir Patrick McLoughlin

:00:33. > :00:40.Lillian Greenwood will be here next time.

:00:41. > :00:48.Now, if anyone thought Donald Trump would tone things down

:00:49. > :00:50.after the American election campaign, they may have

:00:51. > :01:02.The period where he has been President-elect will make them think

:01:03. > :01:04.again. The inauguration is coming up on Friday.

:01:05. > :01:06.Never has the forthcoming inauguration of a president been

:01:07. > :01:10.In a moment, we'll talk to a man who knows Mr Trump

:01:11. > :01:13.But first, let's have a look at the press conference

:01:14. > :01:16.Mr Trump gave on Wednesday, in which he took the opportunity

:01:17. > :01:18.to rubbish reports that Russia has obtained compromising information

:01:19. > :01:34.You are attacking our news organisation.

:01:35. > :01:39.Can you give us a chance, you are attacking our news

:01:40. > :01:41.organisation, can you give us a chance to ask a question, sir?

:01:42. > :01:47.As far as Buzzfeed, which is a failing pile of garbage,

:01:48. > :01:52.writing it, I think they're going to suffer the consequences.

:01:53. > :01:54.Does anyone really believe that story?

:01:55. > :01:58.I'm also very much of a germaphobe, by the way.

:01:59. > :02:00.If Putin likes Donald Trump, guess what, folks, that's called

:02:01. > :02:08.The only ones that care about my tax returns are the reporters, OK?

:02:09. > :02:10.Do you not think the American public is concerned?

:02:11. > :02:23.The Wiggo, Donald Trump at his first last conference. The Can will he

:02:24. > :02:27.change as President? Because he hasn't changed in the run-up to

:02:28. > :02:31.being inaugurated? I don't think he will commit he doesn't see any point

:02:32. > :02:36.in changing. Why would he change from the personality that just one,

:02:37. > :02:39.as he just said, I just one. All of the bleeding-heart liberals can wail

:02:40. > :02:43.and brush their teeth and say how ghastly that all this, Hillary

:02:44. > :02:47.should have won and so on, but he has got an incredible mandate.

:02:48. > :02:50.Remember, Trump has the House committee has the Senate, he will

:02:51. > :02:54.have the Supreme Court. He has incredible power right now. He

:02:55. > :02:57.doesn't have to listen to anybody. I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago

:02:58. > :03:01.specifically about Twitter, I asked him what the impact was of Twitter.

:03:02. > :03:07.He said, I have 60 million people following me on Twitter. I was able

:03:08. > :03:11.to bypass mainstream media, bypass all modern political convention and

:03:12. > :03:15.talk directly to potential voters. Secondly, I can turn on the TV in

:03:16. > :03:19.the morning, I can see a rival getting all of the airtime, and I

:03:20. > :03:23.can fire off a tweet, for free, as a marketing man he loves that, and,

:03:24. > :03:27.boom, I'm on the news agenda again. He was able to use that

:03:28. > :03:35.magnificently. Twitter to him didn't cost him a dollar. He is going to

:03:36. > :03:43.carry on tweeting in the last six weeks, he was not sleeping. Trump

:03:44. > :03:47.has never had an alcoholic drink a cigarette or a drug. He is a fit by

:03:48. > :03:51.the 70, he has incredible energy and he is incredibly competitive. At his

:03:52. > :03:55.heart, he is a businessman. If you look at him as a political

:03:56. > :03:59.ideologue, you completely missed the point of trouble. Don't take what he

:04:00. > :04:03.says literally, look upon it as a negotiating point that he started

:04:04. > :04:08.from, and try to do business with him as a business person would, and

:04:09. > :04:12.you may be presently surprised so pleasantly surprised. He treats the

:04:13. > :04:15.press and the media entirely differently to any other politician

:04:16. > :04:22.or main politician in that normally the politicians try to get the media

:04:23. > :04:26.off a particular subject, or they try to conciliate with the media. He

:04:27. > :04:32.just comes and punches the media in the nose when he doesn't like them.

:04:33. > :04:36.This could catch on, you know! You are absolutely right, for a start,

:04:37. > :04:43.nobody could accuse him of letting that victory go to his head. You

:04:44. > :04:46.know, he won't say, I will now be this lofty president. He's exactly

:04:47. > :04:49.the same as he was before. What is fascinating is his Laois and ship

:04:50. > :04:54.with the media. I haven't met, and I'm sure you haven't, met a party

:04:55. > :05:00.leader who is obsessed with the media. But they pretend not to be.

:05:01. > :05:07.You know, they state, oh, somebody told me about a column, I didn't

:05:08. > :05:11.read it. He is utterly transparent in his obsession with the media, he

:05:12. > :05:14.doesn't pretend. How that plays out, who knows? It's a completely

:05:15. > :05:20.different dynamic than anyone has seen by. Like he is the issue, he

:05:21. > :05:23.has appointed an unusual Cabinet, that you could criticise in many

:05:24. > :05:27.ways. Nearly all of them are independent people in their own

:05:28. > :05:31.right. A lot of them are wealthy, too. They have their own views. They

:05:32. > :05:37.might not like what he tweaked at 3am, and he does have to deal with

:05:38. > :05:40.his Cabinet now. Mad dog matters, now the Defence Secretary, he might

:05:41. > :05:45.not like what's said about China at three in morning - general matters.

:05:46. > :05:49.This is what gets very conjugated. We cannot imagine here in our

:05:50. > :05:52.political system any kind of appointments like this. Using the

:05:53. > :05:55.wouldn't have a line-up of billionaires of the kind of

:05:56. > :05:59.background that he has chosen -- you simply wouldn't have. But that won't

:06:00. > :06:03.stop him saying and reading what he thinks. Maybe it will cause him some

:06:04. > :06:06.internal issues when the following day he has the square rigged with

:06:07. > :06:14.whatever they think. But he's going to press ahead. Are we any clearer

:06:15. > :06:18.in terms of policy. I know policy hasn't featured hugely in this

:06:19. > :06:24.campaign of 2016. Do we have any really clear idea what Mr Trump is

:06:25. > :06:29.hoping to achieve? He has had some consistent theme going back over 25

:06:30. > :06:32.years. One is a deep scepticism about international trade and the

:06:33. > :06:36.kind of deals that America has been doing over that period. It has been

:06:37. > :06:39.so consistent that is has been hard to spin as something that you say

:06:40. > :06:42.during the course of a campaign of something to get elected.

:06:43. > :06:46.Ultimately, Piers is correct, he won't change. When he won the

:06:47. > :06:50.election committee gave a relatively magnanimous beach. I thought his ego

:06:51. > :06:54.had been sated and he had got what he wanted. He will end up governing

:06:55. > :06:58.as is likely eccentric New York liberal and everything will be fine.

:06:59. > :07:00.In the recent weeks it has come to my attention that that might not be

:07:01. > :07:06.entirely true! LAUGHTER

:07:07. > :07:07.It is a real test of the American system, the Texan bouncers, the

:07:08. > :07:13.foreign policy establishment which is about to have the orthodoxies

:07:14. > :07:17.disrupted -- the checks and balances. I think he has completely

:07:18. > :07:21.ripped up the American political system. Washington as we know it is

:07:22. > :07:27.dead. From his garage do things his way, he doesn't care, frankly, what

:07:28. > :07:30.any of us thinks -- Trump is going to do things his way. If he can

:07:31. > :07:39.deliver for the people who voted for him who fault this disenfranchised,

:07:40. > :07:43.-- who voted for him who felt this disenfranchised. They voted

:07:44. > :07:47.accordingly. They want to see jobs and the economy in good shape, they

:07:48. > :07:51.want to feel secure. They want to feel that immigration has been

:07:52. > :07:55.tightened. If Trump can deliver on those main theme for the rust belt

:07:56. > :07:59.communities of America, I'm telling you, he will go down as a very

:08:00. > :08:02.successful president. All of the offensive rhetoric and the

:08:03. > :08:06.argy-bargy with CNN and whatever it may be will be completely

:08:07. > :08:13.irrelevant. Let me finish with a parochial question. Is it fair to

:08:14. > :08:15.say quite well disposed to this country? And that he would like,

:08:16. > :08:20.that he's up for a speedy free-trade, bilateral free-trade

:08:21. > :08:25.you'll? Think we have to be sensible as the country. Come Friday, he is

:08:26. > :08:28.the president of the United States, the most powerful man and well. He

:08:29. > :08:33.said to me that he feels half British, his mum was born and raised

:08:34. > :08:36.in Scotland until the age of 18, he loves British, his mother used to

:08:37. > :08:41.love watching the Queen, he feels very, you know, I would roll out the

:08:42. > :08:46.red carpet for Trump, let him eat Her Majesty. The crucial point for

:08:47. > :08:52.us as a country is coming -- let him me to Her Majesty. If we can do a

:08:53. > :08:54.speedy deal within an 18 month period, it really sends a message

:08:55. > :08:58.that well but we are back in the game, that is a hugely beneficial

:08:59. > :09:02.thing for this country. Well, a man whose advisers were indicating that

:09:03. > :09:09.maybe he should learn a few things from Donald Trump was Jeremy Corbyn.

:09:10. > :09:11.Yes, MBE. Mr Corbyn appeared on the Andrew Marr Show this morning. --

:09:12. > :09:14.yes, indeed. If you don't win Copeland,

:09:15. > :09:16.and if you don't win Stoke-on-Trent Central,

:09:17. > :09:18.you're toast, aren't you? Our party is going to fight very

:09:19. > :09:22.hard in those elections, as we are in the local elections,

:09:23. > :09:26.to put those policies out there. It's an opportunity to challenge

:09:27. > :09:28.the Government on the NHS. It's an opportunity to challenge

:09:29. > :09:31.them on the chaos of Brexit. It's an opportunity to challenge

:09:32. > :09:33.them on the housing shortage. It's an opportunity to challenge

:09:34. > :09:35.them on zero-hours contracts. Is there ever a moment that you look

:09:36. > :09:40.in the mirror and think, you know what, I've done my best,

:09:41. > :09:43.but this might not be for me? I look in the mirror

:09:44. > :09:46.every day and I think, let's go out there and try

:09:47. > :09:49.and create a society where there are opportunities for all,

:09:50. > :09:51.where there aren't these terrible levels of poverty, where

:09:52. > :09:53.there isn't homelessness, where there are houses for all,

:09:54. > :09:55.and where young people aren't frightened of going to university

:09:56. > :09:57.because of the debts they are going to end up

:09:58. > :10:05.with at the end of their course. Mr Corbyn earlier this morning.

:10:06. > :10:08.Steve, would it be fair to say that the mainstream of the Labour Party

:10:09. > :10:12.has now come to the conclusion that they just have to let Mr Corbyn get

:10:13. > :10:17.on with it, that they are not going to try and influence what he does.

:10:18. > :10:22.They will continue to try and have their own views, but it's his show,

:10:23. > :10:25.it's up to him, if it's a mess, he has to live with it and we'll have

:10:26. > :10:29.clean hands? For now, yes. I think they made a mistake when he was

:10:30. > :10:33.first elected to start in some cases tweeting within seconds that it was

:10:34. > :10:37.going to be a disaster, this was Labour MPs. They made a complete

:10:38. > :10:42.mess of that attempted coup in the summer, which strengthened his

:10:43. > :10:46.position. And he did, it gave Corbyn the space with total legitimacy to

:10:47. > :10:51.say that part of the problem is, we're having this public Civil War.

:10:52. > :10:55.In keeping quiet, that disappeared as part of the explanation for why

:10:56. > :11:02.Labour and low in the polls. I think they are partly doing that. But they

:11:03. > :11:05.are also struggling, the so-called mainstream Labour MPs, to decide

:11:06. > :11:09.what the distinctive agenda is. It's one of the many differences with the

:11:10. > :11:13.80s, where you had a group of people sure of what they believed in, they

:11:14. > :11:17.left to form the SDP. What's happening now is that they are

:11:18. > :11:22.leaving politics altogether. That is a crisis of social Democrats all

:11:23. > :11:25.across Europe, including the French Socialists, as we will find out

:11:26. > :11:32.later in the spring. Let Corbyn because then, that's the strategy.

:11:33. > :11:34.There is a weary and sometimes literal resignation from the

:11:35. > :11:37.moderates in the Labour Party. If you talk to them, they are no longer

:11:38. > :11:40.angry, they have always run out of steam to be angry about what's going

:11:41. > :11:44.on. They are just sort of tired and feel that they've just got to see

:11:45. > :11:48.this through now. I think the by-elections will be interesting.

:11:49. > :11:52.When Andrew Marr said, you're toast, and you? I thought, he's never

:11:53. > :11:57.posed! That was right. A quick thought from view? One thing Corbyn

:11:58. > :12:06.has in common with Trump is immunity to bad news. I think he can lose

:12:07. > :12:08.Copeland and lose Stoke, and as long as it is not a sequence of

:12:09. > :12:11.resignations and by-elections afterwards, with maybe a dozen or 20

:12:12. > :12:14.Labour MPs going, he can still enjoy what. It may be more trouble if

:12:15. > :12:20.Labour loses the United trade union elections. We are in a period of

:12:21. > :12:24.incredible unpredictability generally in global politics. If you

:12:25. > :12:27.look at the way the next year plays out, if for example brags it was a

:12:28. > :12:30.disaster and it starts to unravel very quickly, Theresa May is

:12:31. > :12:34.attached to that, clearly label would have a great opportunity

:12:35. > :12:38.potentially disease that higher ground, and when Eddie the Tories --

:12:39. > :12:43.Labour would have an opportunity. Is Corbyn the right guy? We interviewed

:12:44. > :12:48.him, what struck me was that he talked about being from, a laughable

:12:49. > :12:52.comparison, but when it is really laughable is this - Hillary Clinton,

:12:53. > :12:57.what were the things she stood for, nobody really knew? What does Trump

:12:58. > :13:00.stand for? Everybody knew. Corbyn has the work-out four or five

:13:01. > :13:03.messages and bang, bang, bang. He could still be in business. Thank

:13:04. > :13:05.you for being with us. I'll be back at the same

:13:06. > :13:08.time next weekend. Remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:09. > :13:10.it's the Sunday Politics.