:01:09. > :01:13.Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven
:01:14. > :01:19.A new strategy for industry, protests at several US airports.
:01:20. > :01:21.but will it mean more jobs and prosperity here?
:01:22. > :01:23.And as the cold weather bites, centres helping people with drink
:01:24. > :01:27.Should she have spoken out more strongly?
:01:28. > :01:30.We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage
:01:31. > :01:32.what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's
:01:33. > :01:35.In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,
:01:36. > :01:38.has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze
:01:39. > :01:39.and why it doesn't apply to everybody.
:01:40. > :01:41.And with me, the best and brightest political
:01:42. > :01:43.panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia
:01:44. > :01:46.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:47. > :01:49.It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that
:01:50. > :01:51.Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven
:01:52. > :01:57.President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,
:01:58. > :02:01.Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from
:02:02. > :02:05.where refugees are banned from until further notice.
:02:06. > :02:08.Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban
:02:09. > :02:13.on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.
:02:14. > :02:17.Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out
:02:18. > :02:25.But the ban has sparked protests across the US,
:02:26. > :02:28.as people affected and already in the air were detained
:02:29. > :02:32.US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many
:02:33. > :02:38.At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked
:02:39. > :02:42.about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...
:02:43. > :02:45.Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'
:02:46. > :02:51.The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy
:02:52. > :02:54.on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number
:02:55. > :02:56.of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.
:02:57. > :03:11.Downing Street later issued a statement saying:
:03:12. > :03:14.This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why
:03:15. > :03:16.Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's
:03:17. > :03:22.The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip
:03:23. > :03:26.She wants to see the evidence, she wants
:03:27. > :03:31.to understand precisely what the implications are.
:03:32. > :03:34.She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with
:03:35. > :03:38.President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and
:03:39. > :03:41.understand it, and then will respond to that.
:03:42. > :03:43.I think there are times where, you know, there's always
:03:44. > :03:47.pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.
:03:48. > :03:49.The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it
:03:50. > :03:53.We're joined now from North London by the Conservative
:03:54. > :04:05.Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more
:04:06. > :04:13.vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David
:04:14. > :04:17.just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an
:04:18. > :04:21.appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I
:04:22. > :04:28.wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects
:04:29. > :04:32.our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it
:04:33. > :04:39.is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with
:04:40. > :04:43.Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but
:04:44. > :04:47.she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism
:04:48. > :04:53.about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in
:04:54. > :04:55.Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street
:04:56. > :04:58.spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have
:04:59. > :05:03.not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of
:05:04. > :05:07.criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,
:05:08. > :05:11.so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I
:05:12. > :05:15.wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the
:05:16. > :05:20.moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address
:05:21. > :05:24.things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the
:05:25. > :05:32.hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you
:05:33. > :05:35.like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is
:05:36. > :05:38.about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she
:05:39. > :05:42.should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would
:05:43. > :05:45.have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald
:05:46. > :05:47.Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to
:05:48. > :05:52.understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with
:05:53. > :05:56.the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would
:05:57. > :06:00.engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day
:06:01. > :06:06.temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority
:06:07. > :06:11.population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the
:06:12. > :06:15.biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this
:06:16. > :06:21.temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is
:06:22. > :06:25.wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through
:06:26. > :06:29.and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.
:06:30. > :06:33.It can't be right that a president in that position of power can
:06:34. > :06:38.arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already
:06:39. > :06:43.been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach
:06:44. > :06:47.I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by
:06:48. > :07:01.this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?
:07:02. > :07:06.I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by
:07:07. > :07:10.this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are
:07:11. > :07:13.desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by
:07:14. > :07:18.this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only
:07:19. > :07:20.because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it
:07:21. > :07:25.is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do
:07:26. > :07:31.you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is
:07:32. > :07:34.the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work
:07:35. > :07:39.with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was
:07:40. > :07:42.that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our
:07:43. > :07:48.country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is
:07:49. > :07:51.the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate
:07:52. > :07:56.within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,
:07:57. > :08:00.but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,
:08:01. > :08:03.should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a
:08:04. > :08:09.great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of
:08:10. > :08:12.Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the
:08:13. > :08:17.protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I
:08:18. > :08:22.believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have
:08:23. > :08:26.achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a
:08:27. > :08:29.number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am
:08:30. > :08:32.inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege
:08:33. > :08:38.of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places
:08:39. > :08:41.where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the
:08:42. > :08:52.right place. Thank you for joining us.
:08:53. > :08:58.Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald
:08:59. > :09:02.Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,
:09:03. > :09:07.particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going
:09:08. > :09:12.to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on
:09:13. > :09:17.every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa
:09:18. > :09:22.May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time
:09:23. > :09:27.to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.
:09:28. > :09:36.When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and
:09:37. > :09:40.can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying
:09:41. > :09:44.more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing
:09:45. > :09:48.Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going
:09:49. > :09:51.to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's
:09:52. > :09:56.going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It
:09:57. > :10:01.does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special
:10:02. > :10:04.relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven
:10:05. > :10:10.wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.
:10:11. > :10:14.You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for
:10:15. > :10:18.American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what
:10:19. > :10:24.Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why
:10:25. > :10:27.I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has
:10:28. > :10:32.implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was
:10:33. > :10:38.campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real
:10:39. > :10:41.Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the
:10:42. > :10:47.executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a
:10:48. > :10:51.class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day
:10:52. > :10:57.limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,
:10:58. > :11:01.President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.
:11:02. > :11:04.Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in
:11:05. > :11:12.recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with
:11:13. > :11:17.Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned
:11:18. > :11:21.been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not
:11:22. > :11:25.included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in
:11:26. > :11:28.such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal
:11:29. > :11:38.thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It
:11:39. > :11:43.is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge
:11:44. > :11:48.in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue
:11:49. > :11:53.for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree
:11:54. > :11:57.with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa
:11:58. > :12:03.May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is
:12:04. > :12:09.reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is
:12:10. > :12:13.nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with
:12:14. > :12:19.him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time
:12:20. > :12:22.now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee
:12:23. > :12:28.policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as
:12:29. > :12:33.well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this
:12:34. > :12:37.anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she
:12:38. > :12:40.says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.
:12:41. > :12:45.These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does
:12:46. > :12:49.something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her
:12:50. > :12:54.administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical
:12:55. > :12:58.situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in
:12:59. > :13:03.the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.
:13:04. > :13:05.We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless
:13:06. > :13:10.communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for
:13:11. > :13:14.large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't
:13:15. > :13:18.excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via
:13:19. > :13:22.Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible
:13:23. > :13:26.excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than
:13:27. > :13:31.many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with
:13:32. > :13:35.the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of
:13:36. > :13:38.Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is
:13:39. > :13:44.already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't
:13:45. > :13:46.know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky
:13:47. > :13:50.situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first
:13:51. > :13:53.foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit
:13:54. > :13:56.was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,
:13:57. > :13:58.keen for a new trading relationship with the United States
:13:59. > :14:00.in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated
:14:01. > :14:02.the new US President for his "stunning election victory"
:14:03. > :14:04.but might not have intended to be pictured walking
:14:05. > :14:07.through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping
:14:08. > :14:11.Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade
:14:12. > :14:14.will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President
:14:15. > :14:22.told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister
:14:23. > :14:26.said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries
:14:27. > :14:29.increased their defence spending It's been announced
:14:30. > :14:35.that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,
:14:36. > :14:36.with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead
:14:37. > :14:42.to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as
:14:43. > :14:46.Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's
:14:47. > :14:49.going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear
:14:50. > :14:52.to Donald Trump her continued
:14:53. > :14:57.backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over
:14:58. > :15:00.the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer
:15:01. > :15:03.to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues
:15:04. > :15:06.that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former
:15:07. > :15:22.Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's
:15:23. > :15:26.decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the
:15:27. > :15:30.United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which
:15:31. > :15:35.appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He
:15:36. > :15:39.was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to
:15:40. > :15:47.protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven
:15:48. > :15:52.countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if
:15:53. > :15:58.he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just
:15:59. > :16:02.look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela
:16:03. > :16:08.Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,
:16:09. > :16:12.look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all
:16:13. > :16:17.of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria
:16:18. > :16:22.literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in
:16:23. > :16:25.virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have
:16:26. > :16:31.been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of
:16:32. > :16:35.a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of
:16:36. > :16:39.persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But
:16:40. > :16:44.you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you
:16:45. > :16:48.said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing
:16:49. > :16:54.Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees
:16:55. > :17:02.into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.
:17:03. > :17:06.He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those
:17:07. > :17:11.comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's
:17:12. > :17:16.policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is
:17:17. > :17:19.fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this
:17:20. > :17:29.country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any
:17:30. > :17:33.terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have
:17:34. > :17:38.been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have
:17:39. > :17:43.been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why
:17:44. > :17:46.would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people
:17:47. > :17:50.that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into
:17:51. > :17:56.Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not
:17:57. > :17:59.for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening
:18:00. > :18:05.process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with
:18:06. > :18:09.the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to
:18:10. > :18:13.America, they then go through biometric screening, database
:18:14. > :18:24.screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence
:18:25. > :18:31.agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It
:18:32. > :18:35.is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we
:18:36. > :18:38.have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald
:18:39. > :18:44.Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and
:18:45. > :18:47.then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned
:18:48. > :18:54.he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since
:18:55. > :18:59.you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing
:19:00. > :19:03.you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not
:19:04. > :19:06.asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you
:19:07. > :19:13.take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,
:19:14. > :19:16.of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in
:19:17. > :19:20.terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say
:19:21. > :19:24.it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the
:19:25. > :19:27.world have not been included in this. The point is they have made
:19:28. > :19:33.this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about
:19:34. > :19:39.the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him
:19:40. > :19:44.to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you
:19:45. > :19:48.feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total
:19:49. > :19:53.ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that
:19:54. > :19:57.what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be
:19:58. > :20:04.talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We
:20:05. > :20:10.will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What
:20:11. > :20:16.advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa
:20:17. > :20:20.May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the
:20:21. > :20:24.Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been
:20:25. > :20:29.surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who
:20:30. > :20:33.say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make
:20:34. > :20:36.it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can
:20:37. > :20:41.be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister
:20:42. > :20:46.who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally
:20:47. > :20:51.herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial
:20:52. > :20:56.president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building
:20:57. > :21:00.a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking
:21:01. > :21:05.of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is
:21:06. > :21:10.controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke
:21:11. > :21:15.in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it
:21:16. > :21:18.is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the
:21:19. > :21:22.British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I
:21:23. > :21:26.think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in
:21:27. > :21:31.her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato
:21:32. > :21:36.members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there
:21:37. > :21:41.is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the
:21:42. > :21:45.Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms
:21:46. > :21:53.of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good
:21:54. > :21:56.as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying
:21:57. > :22:01.this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control
:22:02. > :22:04.immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good
:22:05. > :22:09.speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I
:22:10. > :22:12.could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying
:22:13. > :22:19.things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have
:22:20. > :22:23.a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can
:22:24. > :22:27.see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a
:22:28. > :22:31.priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French
:22:32. > :22:36.elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I
:22:37. > :22:39.worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress
:22:40. > :22:46.and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.
:22:47. > :22:50.What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say
:22:51. > :22:54.OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough
:22:55. > :23:00.stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a
:23:01. > :23:04.deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot
:23:05. > :23:09.sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,
:23:10. > :23:14.we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,
:23:15. > :23:19.maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until
:23:20. > :23:22.we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will
:23:23. > :23:26.find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and
:23:27. > :23:31.countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that
:23:32. > :23:35.will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the
:23:36. > :23:39.Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you
:23:40. > :23:43.agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.
:23:44. > :23:48.If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you
:23:49. > :23:52.approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any
:23:53. > :23:58.political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,
:23:59. > :24:02.there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip
:24:03. > :24:07.loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,
:24:08. > :24:11.they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and
:24:12. > :24:16.I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that
:24:17. > :24:18.says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen
:24:19. > :24:24.to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the
:24:25. > :24:29.Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over
:24:30. > :24:33.this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition
:24:34. > :24:38.will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's
:24:39. > :24:42.best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of
:24:43. > :24:49.Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to
:24:50. > :24:57.fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.
:24:58. > :25:01.If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,
:25:02. > :25:05.there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always
:25:06. > :25:12.been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't
:25:13. > :25:17.it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it
:25:18. > :25:21.does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and
:25:22. > :25:23.Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for
:25:24. > :25:25.being with us. It's just gone 11.25,
:25:26. > :25:27.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:25:28. > :25:30.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll
:25:31. > :25:42.be talking to our political panel. but will it mean more jobs
:25:43. > :25:47.and prosperity here? And as the cold weather bites,
:25:48. > :25:49.centres helping people with drink But are we doing enough
:25:50. > :25:57.to tackle problem-drinking? For most people, when they have got
:25:58. > :26:01.to the point where they're sat in the street with a can,
:26:02. > :26:03.they become alcohol dependent. So, they are physically
:26:04. > :26:05.cannot stop drinking without causing health issues
:26:06. > :26:07.to themselves, so they need to Hello, I'm Dominic Heale
:26:08. > :26:11.with a slightly shortened show today But there are no cuts to the debate
:26:12. > :26:17.and insight from our guests - Amanda Solloway is the Conservative
:26:18. > :26:20.MP for Derby North and Jon Ashworth First, let's just get your reaction
:26:21. > :26:25.to the debate coming up this week Amanda Solloway, you were undecided
:26:26. > :26:33.about Brexit before the campaign, Well, I was undecided and then
:26:34. > :26:40.I actually came out on the side But now, obviously, you know,
:26:41. > :26:45.we had the referendum and we Absolutely, we are
:26:46. > :26:48.doing the right thing. We are committed to it
:26:49. > :26:50.and I think that's absolutely right
:26:51. > :26:59.that we do that. Jon Ashworth, slightly less
:27:00. > :27:01.straightforward for Labour. Leicester voted narrowly to remain,
:27:02. > :27:03.will you be voting Well, I think we've had a national
:27:04. > :27:07.referendum and people in that referendum have
:27:08. > :27:08.expressed their desire I don't actually like that results,
:27:09. > :27:12.but it is the result nonetheless. So, I think we have to get
:27:13. > :27:15.on and negotiate the best I'm very, very worried about
:27:16. > :27:19.what we've heard from Theresa May. I think she is pushing us towards a,
:27:20. > :27:22.if you like, bargain basement deal. I want us to protect workers' rights
:27:23. > :27:26.and I want us to protect the NHS. I want us to protect
:27:27. > :27:28.jobs and livelihood, so there is a long way to go on this
:27:29. > :27:31.renegotiation and that's what I'll be pressing
:27:32. > :27:33.for in the debates in Parliament. Well, Brexit may have
:27:34. > :27:37.stolen the headlines, but there was one other Government
:27:38. > :27:39.announcement this week, which may turn out to have just as much
:27:40. > :27:42.of an impact on our region. That was the proposals
:27:43. > :27:44.for a new industrial strategy. The 132-page green paper
:27:45. > :27:47.included a lot that could Among its suggestions - making sure
:27:48. > :27:52.economic growth is spread It also contains a promise outline
:27:53. > :27:56.a strategy for the Midlands engine, In addition, there will be
:27:57. > :28:05.an emphasis on encouraging growth in sectors like a rule space
:28:06. > :28:08.and the creative industries. There is ?14 million
:28:09. > :28:13.for a research project between Rolls-Royce
:28:14. > :28:14.and Loughborough University. Some of the help will come
:28:15. > :28:17.in city deals, which we've benefited from already,
:28:18. > :28:22.but also in devolution packages. An area where the East Midlands lags
:28:23. > :28:24.behind, although it contains a promise to outline a strategy
:28:25. > :28:27.for the Midlands Engine soon. There'll be an emphasis
:28:28. > :28:35.on encouraging growth in sectors like aerospace and the creative
:28:36. > :28:37.industries, areas in which the East Midlands
:28:38. > :28:39.is traditionally strong - there's ?14 million for a research
:28:40. > :28:41.project between Rolls Royce Ensuring more of the annual public
:28:42. > :28:45.sector spend of ?268 billion a year goes to UK companies,
:28:46. > :28:48.by taking wider factors like social and economic issues into account
:28:49. > :28:50.when awarding contracts and may be a boost for Derby-based
:28:51. > :28:52.Bombardier when it bids The Government says this
:28:53. > :28:56.is a consultation and it wants to hear your views on how
:28:57. > :28:58.to improve the economy. So, we've been asking people
:28:59. > :29:01.in Nottingham for their ideas I would put out funding so people
:29:02. > :29:04.could start up businesses. A big believer in
:29:05. > :29:06.giving jobs back to I think definitely,
:29:07. > :29:08.like, apprenticeships. For more people this age, who can
:29:09. > :29:12.get into the job world, quicker. I think we've got to
:29:13. > :29:14.look to the future. Some of the industries
:29:15. > :29:16.are a bit in the past. We have lost players,
:29:17. > :29:18.there are slowly going. The increase in car
:29:19. > :29:22.manufacturing is helping the Well, that's a good point,
:29:23. > :29:25.but apprenticeships, Amanda, is this an idea whose time has come
:29:26. > :29:28.again, do I think it's one thing
:29:29. > :29:32.very clearly that the I think there are a view
:29:33. > :29:35.challenges that we I think we need to make sure we get
:29:36. > :29:40.education right, but I think we need to then be going on and making
:29:41. > :29:43.sure that we are supporting businesses and apprenticeships are
:29:44. > :29:46.a really good way of getting people into work, skilled people into work
:29:47. > :30:01.for the roles that we need. Are you happy,
:30:02. > :30:02.Jon Ashworth, that the apprenticeships are good
:30:03. > :30:04.quality apprenticeships? In other words, the people will be
:30:05. > :30:06.able to leave them with Well, I think
:30:07. > :30:09.apprenticeships are really I'm not going to
:30:10. > :30:12.disagree with Amanda on We need to be investing more
:30:13. > :30:16.in apprenticeships, but if we are talking about an industrial strategy
:30:17. > :30:19.for the Midlands, I would welcome But part of that has got to be
:30:20. > :30:23.the electrification of the Midland It keeps getting
:30:24. > :30:26.delays and put back. That will bring jobs, it will bring
:30:27. > :30:29.investment to the Midlands. It is absolutely key
:30:30. > :30:31.to an industrial So, I am having the Government,
:30:32. > :30:34.get on with the electrification of
:30:35. > :30:36.the Midland mainline. My constituents needed,
:30:37. > :30:38.constituents and Derby need it. I mean, that should have
:30:39. > :30:41.been in the green paper, Well, one of the things
:30:42. > :30:45.that is in the green paper, But for me, I agree
:30:46. > :30:48.with what you're saying. We have all been campaigning
:30:49. > :30:50.for the electrification. But actually, I think
:30:51. > :30:52.we have a broader responsibility as East Midlands MPs
:30:53. > :30:55.to make sure that this East Midlands And that is one thing
:30:56. > :30:58.that I keep on saying need to be making sure
:30:59. > :31:03.that we are looking after education, creating the rules and not letting
:31:04. > :31:05.us get railroaded by, for example,
:31:06. > :31:06.northern powerhouse. I take your point on that,
:31:07. > :31:11.but in the paper it refers to the creation of the Midlands
:31:12. > :31:12.engine soon. I mean, that's a wonderful
:31:13. > :31:14.phrase, isn't it? I think we have a responsibility
:31:15. > :31:20.to keep on saying we cannot let the Midlands fall behind,
:31:21. > :31:22.specifically the East Midlands. The green paper
:31:23. > :31:24.was very, very big on technology, on broadband
:31:25. > :31:26.and the sort of stuff. But in our region, manufacturing
:31:27. > :31:29.has been and still is Is there a danger that
:31:30. > :31:33.that's been glossed over? I mean, manufacturing
:31:34. > :31:37.in the East Midlands Indeed, I would argue
:31:38. > :31:40.that the East Midlands biggest manufacturing
:31:41. > :31:43.base in the country. The west Midlands would contest
:31:44. > :31:45.that, but I think the statistics show that
:31:46. > :31:47.the East Midlands is bigger. Traditionally, we have not
:31:48. > :31:49.done very well in terms of getting the growth for money
:31:50. > :31:53.in the last few years and, you know, Bombardier didn't get some contacts
:31:54. > :31:55.a couple of years ago. So, it seems at times,
:31:56. > :31:57.our manufacturing base has been neglected and that
:31:58. > :31:59.cannot be right. We want a Midlands engine,
:32:00. > :32:02.we want it quicker than soon, if you But if we are going to have
:32:03. > :32:07.that, we need to be investing in manufacturing and we
:32:08. > :32:10.need to be investing in things make Amanda, there is the suggestion
:32:11. > :32:12.that attitudes are That whereas in the past,
:32:13. > :32:16.we were not giving contracts to local firms to secure jobs, because
:32:17. > :32:19.of the competition and so on. It seems that we are becoming more
:32:20. > :32:22.interventionist now? Certainly what I'm seeing
:32:23. > :32:26.is that there is a lot of excitement around Derby,
:32:27. > :32:27.around the East Midlands. We need to be making sure
:32:28. > :32:32.that the big contracts are going to this country
:32:33. > :32:34.and also from our point Making sure that apprenticeships
:32:35. > :32:37.are adding value. We've got the great investment
:32:38. > :32:39.in stem at the moment with partnership of the University
:32:40. > :32:42.of Derby and Rolls-Royce, We've got UTC, there's
:32:43. > :32:45.all these things that we are doing that are really trying to make
:32:46. > :32:47.apprenticeships add value, make Midlands engine for
:32:48. > :32:49.growth and the skills. And will Brexit drive that
:32:50. > :32:51.forage, Jon Ashworth? And will Brexit drive that
:32:52. > :32:53.forward, Jon Ashworth? Do you think that when
:32:54. > :32:55.we move the European Union, we can be more nakedly
:32:56. > :32:58.interventionist and protect our own industry from competition
:32:59. > :32:59.from abroad? Well, we'll have to see
:33:00. > :33:02.where we get to with the I mean, I think we should be
:33:03. > :33:05.intervening in the economy. I am pleased that our
:33:06. > :33:11.Conservative friends are now converted to quote
:33:12. > :33:14.By the way, only talk manufacturing in East
:33:15. > :33:16.Midlands, it's not just building trains, don't forget food
:33:17. > :33:19.Melton Mowbray pork pies, our Stilton cheeses.
:33:20. > :33:21.These can be selling to the world and I
:33:22. > :33:23.want to see Government ministers going across the world, really
:33:24. > :33:26.banging the drum as well for the food and drink
:33:27. > :33:29.And briefly, Amanda Solloway, what about
:33:30. > :33:30.the quality of employment ayes there is talk
:33:31. > :33:32.of zero-hours contract and
:33:33. > :33:33.particularly, I have to say, within the food industry.
:33:34. > :33:36.I mean, just on that, one of the things that we do
:33:37. > :33:39.really well is we do apprenticeships like you're saying, on a broader
:33:40. > :33:43.We just had a construction placed open, academy, which is
:33:44. > :33:46.So, what we are doing is, we're trying to
:33:47. > :33:49.broaden it out to not just manufacturing, but looking at all of
:33:50. > :33:50.the industries and I've goes forward.
:33:51. > :33:53.So, in terms of this green paper, can I summarise your response
:33:54. > :33:55.as being guardedly optimistic or very optimistic in your case?
:33:56. > :33:59.I know that I am on the base like committee as you
:34:00. > :34:03.know and I know that the chair was saying what a good thing it is.
:34:04. > :34:06.But we needed sooner, is that what you're
:34:07. > :34:13.Let's see what action we get from the Government, but if they are
:34:14. > :34:15.going to implement what they say in this paper, good.
:34:16. > :34:18.But we actually need the action, not just the
:34:19. > :34:23.The Government's announced plans for new action zones to tackle
:34:24. > :34:26.problems caused by heavy drinking in towns and city centres,
:34:27. > :34:27.including ones in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.
:34:28. > :34:30.It's a subject that's close to the heart for both of our guests.
:34:31. > :34:33.They've both spoken publicly about the pain of growing up
:34:34. > :34:41.But are we doing enough to tackle the issue of problem drinking?
:34:42. > :34:43.A place out of the cold for street drinkers in Leicester.
:34:44. > :34:46.Alex comes here because they help control his drinking.
:34:47. > :34:49.It's just good to have a place like this where you can go and
:34:50. > :34:53.Especially with the GP, they make contact with the staff
:34:54. > :34:55.here, so they are both talking to each other,
:34:56. > :35:07.needs and what they can do to help you even more.
:35:08. > :35:09.There you are. Ta.
:35:10. > :35:18.Our aim is to support people as the starting point
:35:19. > :35:22.They don't always choose to be on the streets.
:35:23. > :35:24.Most of them aren't choosing to be on the streets, it's
:35:25. > :35:26.just part and parcel of their lifestyle.
:35:27. > :35:29.The Anchor Centre is also a refuge in the day for the hidden homeless.
:35:30. > :35:33.Better here than sitting on a park bench.
:35:34. > :35:35.I'm hoping to be back in work by April.
:35:36. > :35:38.I have promised myself to do that, but I don't know
:35:39. > :35:55.If I can, that's an even bigger step, but I'm going to try.
:35:56. > :35:58.They want to move from here to a better building
:35:59. > :36:02.Where there's help on alcohol, health, housing advice.
:36:03. > :36:05.They have the capital funding, but not the planning permission.
:36:06. > :36:17.Because some would rather not see drinkers on their doorstep.
:36:18. > :36:20.Jon Ashworth, has your personal experience, is that Ken of the way
:36:21. > :36:22.that as Shadow Health Secretary you view alcoholism in terms
:36:23. > :36:26.Well, I spoke out a few weeks ago about my own
:36:27. > :36:29.upbringing with an alcoholic father and, look, I enjoy a drink in a
:36:30. > :36:31.social setting, but I think we sometimes forget in society how
:36:32. > :36:35.And one of the reasons I spoke out is,
:36:36. > :36:36.because obviously as the Health Secretary,
:36:37. > :36:39.it would be easy for me to come on programmes and have a go
:36:40. > :36:43.at the Tory Government for this, that and the other, but I thought,
:36:44. > :36:44.if I can speak about my personal experiences
:36:45. > :36:47.growing up with an alcoholic father, and try and make a difference on
:36:48. > :36:50.these matters, I think I will have achieved something in politics.
:36:51. > :36:57.Amanda Solloway, that these must have
:36:58. > :37:08.It is a complex problem and one of the ways that we can get more
:37:09. > :37:10.people talking about it is by people like us speaking honestly and
:37:11. > :37:12.personally, because often, particularly in my situation, the
:37:13. > :37:14.impact of the alcoholic on the family is hidden.
:37:15. > :37:17.You know, we didn't tell people about it and it's
:37:18. > :37:29.So, the more we enable people to do that, the better I think.
:37:30. > :37:32.Are we doing enough as a society on this
:37:33. > :37:35.Because an amazing statistic, alcohol is 54% more affordable in
:37:36. > :37:43.There is a role for Government, isn't in
:37:44. > :37:47.I mean, minimum pricing is going through the courts in
:37:48. > :37:50.Scotland, but don't even think it's on the table in England, is it?
:37:51. > :37:52.Well, I think the UK Government have said
:37:53. > :37:53.they were the what happens with
:37:54. > :37:56.this court case in Scotland, because the Scottish Government tried to
:37:57. > :37:59.introduce it and have been taken to court I think by one
:38:00. > :38:18.So, I think the UK Government will look at
:38:19. > :38:20.that, but alcoholism costs the UK economy literally billions of
:38:21. > :38:24.It's not just the NHS who have to treat people with alcohol
:38:25. > :38:27.problems, if the fact that people can't get into work, so it's heading
:38:28. > :38:31.Isn't this where the ambivalence comes in, because the UK
:38:32. > :38:32.economy makes billions from alcohol duty?
:38:33. > :38:35.Well, it does make billions from alcohol duty, but it costs the UK
:38:36. > :38:39.If the effect on crime, is the effect on domestic violence.
:38:40. > :38:41.If he had an effect on children and what
:38:42. > :38:44.they have to cope with growing up with an alcoholic parent, which is
:38:45. > :38:47.what I spoke about in very personal terms a few weeks ago.
:38:48. > :38:49.So, I do think that the Government needs to
:38:50. > :38:52.put in place a really proper strategy for dealing with alcohol
:38:53. > :38:56.In our film, we saw a centre where people could go and a lot
:38:57. > :38:59.of people who were in that situation could be
:39:00. > :39:00.driven by the cold weather into the centres.
:39:01. > :39:03.Isn't that a golden opportunity to connect with those
:39:04. > :39:06.And isn't that what we should be doing more of?
:39:07. > :39:12.We have a centre that I went to a few weeks ago called.
:39:13. > :39:15.The problem is, that dealing with alcoholics, people
:39:16. > :39:18.The reason is that they are are very complex.
:39:19. > :39:22.One of the situations that we have in Derby is that what we are
:39:23. > :39:24.trying to do is encourage people not to be
:39:25. > :39:25.giving money to people on the
:39:26. > :39:28.streets, but trying to divert that money to a centre, three different
:39:29. > :39:32.Because a way to help these people is, as you say, to
:39:33. > :39:34.get them to the centres, to try and give support,
:39:35. > :39:37.but actually, and Jon will say this, some of these cases
:39:38. > :40:01.You can return to the need help? You're not on your own. Our website
:40:02. > :40:04.and people to help you. I thought I was on my own as a child, but I
:40:05. > :40:11.didn't realise there are literally up to 2 million people in the same
:40:12. > :40:14.circumstances. Amanda? I think I picked up a wall and I was unable to
:40:15. > :40:18.talk about it. I was embarrassed by it. What I would say is that there
:40:19. > :40:22.is help out there and do talk to someone. Talk to somebody who you
:40:23. > :40:25.trust and there are people, teachers, adults who can help. Thank
:40:26. > :40:28.That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.
:40:29. > :40:30.Thanks to Amanda Solloway and Jon Ashworth.
:40:31. > :40:44.Welcome back and let's get back to Donald Trump's travel ban
:40:45. > :40:49.on refugees and citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries.
:40:50. > :40:52.Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state
:40:53. > :40:55.visit by President Trump to the UK should not go ahead
:40:56. > :41:07.I think it would be totally wrong for him to be coming here while that
:41:08. > :41:12.situation is going on. He has to be challenged on this. So until the ban
:41:13. > :41:17.is lifted, you don't think he should come? I am not happy about him
:41:18. > :41:21.coming here until the ban is lifted. Look at what is happening with those
:41:22. > :41:27.countries. What will be the long term effect of this on the rest of
:41:28. > :41:32.the world? Is this state visit going to become a matter of huge political
:41:33. > :41:36.debate in this country? It would be anyway, but it is a temporary ban,
:41:37. > :41:40.so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe territory. It will be over by April
:41:41. > :41:45.and he is not due to come until summer. But there are three bands.
:41:46. > :41:50.There is the 90 day ban on people coming from the southern countries.
:41:51. > :41:54.There is the 120 day ban on refugees from anywhere in the world, and
:41:55. > :41:59.there is the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees. So there may still
:42:00. > :42:03.be some bans in place. But bear in mind the number of Syrian refugees
:42:04. > :42:07.and refugees from around the world that President Obama took over his
:42:08. > :42:11.eight years. There were years when it was not even up to 50 Syrian
:42:12. > :42:17.refugees that were taken since the civil war has started. This is an
:42:18. > :42:22.ongoing American policy. 12,500 Syrian refugees have come in the
:42:23. > :42:30.last year. Before that, it was a hundred and sometimes under 50. But
:42:31. > :42:34.they are reasonable numbers now, although not something America
:42:35. > :42:40.couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is discovering that being a president
:42:41. > :42:43.is different from being a business man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn
:42:44. > :42:48.the art of leadership, having been a backbench MP, and has struggled to
:42:49. > :42:52.do it, as we are about to discuss with article 50. With this, you have
:42:53. > :42:57.to dramatise the politics of this, and this is what he has done with
:42:58. > :43:02.that statement. Most controversial ever state visit now? I would
:43:03. > :43:06.imagine so. Even regardless of any opposition from the opposition to
:43:07. > :43:11.trump's physical presence in the streets, the presence of
:43:12. > :43:15.demonstrators will be an international new story. If trump's
:43:16. > :43:19.demands for the details of the visit are quite as extreme and as picky as
:43:20. > :43:23.some of the Sunday papers have suggested, that could also be the
:43:24. > :43:27.source of controversy. What do you have in mind? Isn't he anxious that
:43:28. > :43:31.only certain members of the Royal Family turn up? He doesn't want a
:43:32. > :43:40.one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who would, though! Some people may be
:43:41. > :43:44.sympathetic on that. It is the one subject where he is in line with
:43:45. > :43:49.British opinion. Playing golf in front of the Queen may be a higher
:43:50. > :43:52.priority. We have to be realistic. Given the other people from around
:43:53. > :43:55.the world that the Queen has played host to, like the Chinese president
:43:56. > :44:01.and Saudi kings and the like, we have had a lot worse come to visit
:44:02. > :44:06.than Donald Trump. Brexit - how serious our neighbour's problems on
:44:07. > :44:10.this? Very serious, but they often are with Europe. Labour were splits
:44:11. > :44:16.when we joined in the 70s, and still won general elections, in 1974 and
:44:17. > :44:20.1975. There were all over the place in terms of the single currency.
:44:21. > :44:21.Blair said one thing one day and the opposite the next day. Brown did the
:44:22. > :44:34.same. Brown usually set the opposite of
:44:35. > :44:39.what Blair said! They won landslide because they have the political
:44:40. > :44:41.skills to put all of the pressure on the major government, even though
:44:42. > :44:46.their position on the single currency was the same as major's. It
:44:47. > :44:52.is about with Europe the art of leadership. You have to be a
:44:53. > :44:55.political conjuror, you have to dissemble authoritative leak when
:44:56. > :44:59.you lead a divided party over Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his
:45:00. > :45:05.personal credit cannot dissemble, but he's not an individual person on
:45:06. > :45:09.this. He's leading a split party in danger of falling apart, and you
:45:10. > :45:14.need the skills of a political conjurer. Clearly self-evidently
:45:15. > :45:18.he's not displaying it because we are talking about the chaotic split
:45:19. > :45:22.which will manifest itself in that vote on Article 50. Labour and the
:45:23. > :45:27.SNP and the Lib Dems too I would have thought will all put amendments
:45:28. > :45:33.down to the short Article 50 piece of legislation. Do they have any
:45:34. > :45:37.chance of succeeding? No substantial world is changing amendments. I
:45:38. > :45:42.don't think Theresa May has much to worry about actually. I think if
:45:43. > :45:45.anything the reason she's pushed the legal appeal is that it helps her to
:45:46. > :45:50.have a big chunk of the media and a big chunk of public opinion worrying
:45:51. > :45:55.that the popular will of last year is in danger of being overturned and
:45:56. > :46:00.so even if it was a completely hopeless legal appeal, it generated
:46:01. > :46:03.headlines for a week that as an incumbent Prime Minister trying to
:46:04. > :46:08.execute believe vote suits you politically. I think it is a much
:46:09. > :46:12.bigger problem for Labour, we've already seen some Shadow Cabinet
:46:13. > :46:16.issues in the previous week. You have got to remember it's not just a
:46:17. > :46:23.majority of Labour MPs that want to stay in the European Union, but a
:46:24. > :46:26.majority of Labour constituencies, and a majority of labour macro
:46:27. > :46:31.voters wanted to stay as well so we have three lines of division. One
:46:32. > :46:34.amendment that might get through if it was called, and it is in the
:46:35. > :46:38.hands of the Deputy speaker who will be chairing these debates, and that
:46:39. > :46:42.will be an amendment that said regardless of how the Europeans
:46:43. > :46:47.treat our citizens in Europe, all EU citizens here will be afforded full
:46:48. > :46:56.rights to remain. That might get through. It may indeed and lots of
:46:57. > :47:01.backbench MPs would backpack. We all know there will not be mass
:47:02. > :47:05.deportations, it is not legal, it won't happen, it is simply a
:47:06. > :47:09.negotiating tactic. I agree with those who say you shouldn't be using
:47:10. > :47:14.people as a negotiating tactic, but the reality as it is the EU leaders
:47:15. > :47:18.that are doing that because it's already been offered. The remain as
:47:19. > :47:23.should be attacking the EU governments for not offering that in
:47:24. > :47:27.return. Article 50 is the easy bit for her. I agree with other members
:47:28. > :47:31.of the panel that she will get it through and the court case almost
:47:32. > :47:35.helps her by getting an easy journey through Parliament, then it gets
:47:36. > :47:40.really difficult. All of this has been a preamble and once she begins
:47:41. > :47:45.that nightmarish negotiation, there will be opportunities for a smart
:47:46. > :47:52.opposition to make quite a lot of the turmoil to come. Whether Labour
:47:53. > :47:58.are capable of that, let's wait and see. The divisions in Labour are
:47:59. > :48:02.nightmarish for them but by no means unprecedented. Arguably it was much
:48:03. > :48:07.more complicated in the early 1970s when you had Titans on either side,
:48:08. > :48:15.big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony Benn... Michael Foot, they were all
:48:16. > :48:21.at it. The fundamental issue of in or out, and they won two elections,
:48:22. > :48:26.so you have got to be really clever. But also how money more Labour MPs
:48:27. > :48:29.will resign. We shall find out this week.
:48:30. > :48:32.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday and all
:48:33. > :48:35.I'll be back here on BBC one next week.
:48:36. > :49:19.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:49:20. > :49:23.a free five-a-side tournament that's for everyone.