:00:41. > :00:45.Commons Speaker John Bercow is accused of compromising his
:00:46. > :00:47.impartiality by revealing he voted Remain in last year's EU referendum.
:00:48. > :00:56.The EU Withdrawal Bill clears its first Parliamentary hurdle.
:00:57. > :00:59.But will the House of Lords be quite so accommodating?
:01:00. > :01:06.Labour's Leader in the Lords joins us live.
:01:07. > :01:10.And we report from Stoke-on-Trent ahead of a crucial by-election
:01:11. > :01:13.later this month, where Ukip is looking to give
:01:14. > :01:15.And in the East Midlands, the Brexit hotspots -
:01:16. > :01:18.we'll be looking at a detailed report into how our region voted.
:01:19. > :01:20.And women forced to wait years for their pension prepare
:01:21. > :01:36.And with me a political panel who frequently like to compromise
:01:37. > :01:41.Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Janan Ganesh.
:01:42. > :01:48.I'll be trying to keep them in order during the course of the programme.
:01:49. > :01:50.So, Commons Speaker John Bercow has insisted his ability
:01:51. > :01:56.to act impartially is not damaged by reports that he voted to Remain
:01:57. > :02:03.The Sunday Telegraph reveals that Speaker Bercow revealed his views
:02:04. > :02:06.in front of an audience of students at Reading University
:02:07. > :02:23.This may not be popular with some people in this audience -
:02:24. > :02:27.I thought it was better to stay in the European Union than not,
:02:28. > :02:31.partly for economic reason, being part of a big trade bloc,
:02:32. > :02:35.and partly because I think we're in a world of power blocs,
:02:36. > :02:37.and I think for all the weaknesses and deficiencies
:02:38. > :02:40.of the European Union, it is better to be part of that big
:02:41. > :02:51.Speaker Bercow speaking at Reading University earlier this month. Does
:02:52. > :02:56.he not care is this I get that impression, he knows perfectly well,
:02:57. > :03:00.it states he has to be particularly -- Parliamentary neural. Whether
:03:01. > :03:05.there are going to be enough votes to force him out, the question, the
:03:06. > :03:10.last speaker wept out with the 20 vote against him. You yes to have
:03:11. > :03:16.the command of the support across the House. There is a Deputy
:03:17. > :03:25.Speaker, waiting, who would be superb. I think even the people who
:03:26. > :03:31.pretend to support Macis have had enough -- Speaker Bercow have had
:03:32. > :03:34.enough of his ways. The reason I ask whether he care, he didn't just tell
:03:35. > :03:39.the students that he voted to Remain, he then gave them a running
:03:40. > :03:46.commentary on all the issues that will be part of the Brexit
:03:47. > :03:48.negotiations, workers' rights, immigration, trade policy, everyone
:03:49. > :03:54.maternity leave got a hat tip from him. He would be a very well
:03:55. > :03:59.prepared Brexit minister if attendance needs a colleague --
:04:00. > :04:03.David Davis needs a colleague. I don't think this story makes his
:04:04. > :04:07.position untenable, what does is the wired pattern of behaviour of
:04:08. > :04:15.excessive candour on his political views, going back years, this is a
:04:16. > :04:21.guy who when the Queen visited Parliament described her as theical
:04:22. > :04:25.lied scope Queen. He had a running argument with David Cameron. We know
:04:26. > :04:36.his views on Brexit, we know his views on Donald Trump. . He has
:04:37. > :04:40.given interviews, none of the views are illegitimate but the candour
:04:41. > :04:44.which they are expressed with is scrupulous. Given Lyndsay Hoyle is a
:04:45. > :04:49.class accuse. He is the Deputy Speaker. And a fairly ready
:04:50. > :04:54.replacement, whether there is more of a movement to say, maybe not
:04:55. > :04:58.force Bercow out but acknowledge he has had a few years in the job and
:04:59. > :05:04.the question of successor ship comes into play. Has he concluded he is
:05:05. > :05:09.untouchable? What I can definitely say, is that he is determined to
:05:10. > :05:12.fight this one out, and not go of his own volition, so if he goes he
:05:13. > :05:19.will have to be forced out. He wants to stay. Which will be tough. It
:05:20. > :05:23.will be tough. Likely as things stand. I would say this, I speak to
:05:24. > :05:27.someone who likes the way he has brought the House of Commons to
:05:28. > :05:30.life, held ministers to account, forced them into explain thing,
:05:31. > :05:34.whenever there is a topical issue you know it will be in the House of
:05:35. > :05:41.Commons. He has changed that. He has. Time has been courageous, Ied a
:05:42. > :05:48.mire the way he has been a speaker. I would say this, during the
:05:49. > :05:51.referendum campaign, he asked me Nick Clegg, and Peter Hitchens to
:05:52. > :05:56.debate Brexit if his constituency. It was a packed out meeting. He
:05:57. > :06:01.chaired it. I said don't you want to join in? He didn't. He showed no
:06:02. > :06:08.desire to join in, he was impartial. He goes out to universities and kind
:06:09. > :06:15.of demyth GCSEs Parliament by speaking to them in a way, he
:06:16. > :06:22.doesn't gets credit for it and stays on after and drinks with them.
:06:23. > :06:26.Sometimes he, you know, it is clearly a mistake to have gone into
:06:27. > :06:29.his views retrospectively on that referendum campaign, I don't think
:06:30. > :06:33.that, did he try and stop Article 50 from being triggered in the House of
:06:34. > :06:38.Commons? That would be a scandal. Even that would be beyond him.
:06:39. > :06:43.Briefly, yes or no, could you imagine Betty Boothroyd behaving
:06:44. > :06:48.like that? Not at all. None of the recent speakers I could imagine
:06:49. > :06:51.doing that. It is good he is different.
:06:52. > :06:55.The bill that will allow the government to trigger Article 50
:06:56. > :06:57.and begin Brexit negotiations was voted through
:06:58. > :07:01.Many MPs were in a difficult position - unsure whether to vote
:07:02. > :07:02.with their conscience, their constituency,
:07:03. > :07:06.Europe, once such a divisive issue for the Conservatives,
:07:07. > :07:08.is now causing major divisions inside the Labour Party.
:07:09. > :07:13.So, let's have a look what happened in a bit more detail:
:07:14. > :07:15.Thanks to academic research carried out since the referendum,
:07:16. > :07:18.we now have estimates of how each individual constituency voted.
:07:19. > :07:23.It's thought that 410 constituencies voted Leave.
:07:24. > :07:31.On Wednesday night, the EU Notification of Withdrawal Bill
:07:32. > :07:33.was voted through by the House of Commons.
:07:34. > :07:42.The bill left the Labour Party divided.
:07:43. > :07:44.Jeremy Corbyn told his MPs to respect the result
:07:45. > :07:47.of the referendum and vote for the government's bill -
:07:48. > :07:50.But 52 Labour MPs defied Mr Corbyn's thee-line whip
:07:51. > :08:06.That's about a fifth of the Parliamentary Labour Party.
:08:07. > :08:08.Of those 52 Labour MPs who voted against the bill,
:08:09. > :08:11.the majority, 45 of them, represent seats that voted Remain.
:08:12. > :08:13.However, seven Labour MPs voted against the Article 50 Bill,
:08:14. > :08:15.even though their constituents voted Leave in the referendum.
:08:16. > :08:17.The Conservative Party were much more united.
:08:18. > :08:20.The vast majority of Tory MPs, 320 of them, voted for the bill.
:08:21. > :08:22.Just one Conservative MP, Ken Clarke, voted against it.
:08:23. > :08:24.His constituency, Rushcliffe in Nottinghamshire, voted Remain.
:08:25. > :08:27.The bill will now go to the House of Lords -
:08:28. > :08:40.peers will start debating it on Monday the 20th of February.
:08:41. > :08:43.Joining me now is Matthew Goodwin, politics professor at
:08:44. > :08:46.He's got a book out next month called
:08:47. > :08:47.Brexit: Why Britain Voted To Leave The European Union.
:08:48. > :08:56.Welcome to the programme. Has Brexit, how you voted in the
:08:57. > :09:00.referendum and your continuing attitudes toward it, is that now
:09:01. > :09:05.becoming the new dividing line in British politics? I think it
:09:06. > :09:09.certainly is contributing to a new dividing line, in western politics
:09:10. > :09:13.more generally, we know over the last ten years, that the old left
:09:14. > :09:17.and right division has been making way for a new division, between
:09:18. > :09:20.essentially social liberals and Conservative, and Brexit was a, an
:09:21. > :09:25.incident a moment that really reflected that new dividing line, so
:09:26. > :09:31.it wasn't just the case that Brexit has cut across Labour's base, it is
:09:32. > :09:36.that dividing line, that deeper division is cutting across social
:09:37. > :09:40.democracies more generally. Is there a possibility, no higher than that,
:09:41. > :09:45.that it will reShane our party politics? I think it is too early to
:09:46. > :09:49.know whether this is a fundamental long-term realignment. If we look at
:09:50. > :09:54.what is happening in local by-election, what is happening at
:09:55. > :10:01.by-elections, pictures a bit mixed but if you look at how some of the
:10:02. > :10:05.Labour vote is responding, I think that potentially reflects the
:10:06. > :10:09.possibility of a terminal decline for the Labour Party, it is going to
:10:10. > :10:13.be incredibly difficult for Labour to win these voters back, these are
:10:14. > :10:18.traditional working class, socially Conservative voters who are leaving
:10:19. > :10:22.the party, don't forget, since the 1997 general election. It is not
:10:23. > :10:27.just because of the referendum. If that was the case, Labour would
:10:28. > :10:30.become more a party of the Metropolitan areas, and less of a
:10:31. > :10:35.party outside of these area, is that what you are saying? What we are S
:10:36. > :10:41.seeing across the west can social democracy that retrenchment into the
:10:42. > :10:45.cosmopolitan, Metropolitan city area, university towns, you can
:10:46. > :10:48.seeing in many European states populist right parties filling the
:10:49. > :10:54.traditional socialist area, why are they doing that? Because they are
:10:55. > :10:58.offering two message, economic and cultural protectionism. Social
:10:59. > :11:02.Democrats are clinging to that economic protectionism but not
:11:03. > :11:06.saying much about migration and multiculturalism and that sort of
:11:07. > :11:09.stuff. Are there deeper forces at work than Jeremy Corbyn? He often
:11:10. > :11:13.gets the blame for what is happening to the Labour Party now, but if you
:11:14. > :11:20.look the way the Greek socialist party has been wiped out. The German
:11:21. > :11:24.Social Democrats are in trouble. The Italian socialist party has lost a
:11:25. > :11:29.referendum. The French socialist are coming close to being wiped out on
:11:30. > :11:33.April 23rd, Labour's problems, are part of a much wider problem of
:11:34. > :11:38.social democracy S Jeremy Corbyn is a surface problem, what I mean by
:11:39. > :11:41.that is you could replace him tosh with another leader, they would
:11:42. > :11:48.still have this fundamental tension within the electorate. They are
:11:49. > :11:51.trying to appeal to two differenter reconcilable groups of voters who
:11:52. > :11:56.think differently about the key issues of the day. It is very
:11:57. > :12:02.difficult for any centre left party now to assemble the kinds of
:12:03. > :12:05.coalitionses we saw in the '90s with Clinton and Blair and Schroeder.
:12:06. > :12:11.Those days are gone. Does that explain why it is now Labour, rather
:12:12. > :12:15.than the Conservatives, historically the party divided over the European
:12:16. > :12:21.Union, does all of that help to explain why its Labour that now
:12:22. > :12:27.seems, disunited over the EU? I think so, I think also that the
:12:28. > :12:31.issue of Brexit, and the EU, is so immatly wrapped up with that issue
:12:32. > :12:36.of immigration, if you look at who has been abandoned Labour since 2015
:12:37. > :12:41.or the late 90s, the one thing those voters share is a rejection of the
:12:42. > :12:45.so-called liberal consensus on EU membership and mass immigration. It
:12:46. > :12:50.is difficult for any Labour lead eer co-bin or Clive Lewis on Dan Jarvis,
:12:51. > :12:54.to bring those voters back unless they are going to move on that
:12:55. > :12:59.cultural terrain. If they are not, they may not go to Ukip, they might
:13:00. > :13:01.go to somewhere more difficult for Labour which is political apathy.
:13:02. > :13:04.Thank you for that. Attention now shifts to the House
:13:05. > :13:07.of Lords where peers will begin scrutinising the EU Withdrawal Bill
:13:08. > :13:09.in just over a week. Brexit Secretary David Davis urged
:13:10. > :13:12.the Lords "to do its patriotic duty" and resist the urge to tinker
:13:13. > :13:14.with the legislation. Former minister Oliver Letwin
:13:15. > :13:16.went one further - mooting the possibility
:13:17. > :13:18.of the abolition of the Lords if it sought to frustrate
:13:19. > :13:21.the bill in any way. Here he is posing the question
:13:22. > :13:28.in the Commons on Thursday. Would he find time, in government
:13:29. > :13:31.time for a debate, should the other place seek to delay beyond the end
:13:32. > :13:35.of March the passage of our accession to Article 50, for this
:13:36. > :13:38.House to discuss the possibility of either the abolition or full-scale
:13:39. > :13:47.reform of the other place? And Oliver Letwin joins
:13:48. > :14:00.me now from Dorset. Welcome back to the programme Mr Let
:14:01. > :14:04.win. Before we come on to the Lord's, can I get your thoughts on a
:14:05. > :14:09.matter that has been making the news this morning and John Bercow's
:14:10. > :14:13.remarks about being a remain voter an giving something of a running
:14:14. > :14:18.commentary on various Brexit issues, has he sqloefr stepped the mark as
:14:19. > :14:26.speaker? -- overstepped the mark. I think this is slightly a fuss about
:14:27. > :14:29.nothing. Every person who thinks about politics will have had some
:14:30. > :14:33.opinion about great matters like Brexit, and I really don't see any
:14:34. > :14:39.particular reason why his opinion shouldn't be known after the fact.
:14:40. > :14:43.I, I was there throughout the five days of the Brexit debate, and I
:14:44. > :14:48.have to say, I thought he was pretty scrupulously fair in the way he
:14:49. > :14:52.handled the House, so, I, I don't really share the view that there is
:14:53. > :14:56.some terrible thing that has been revealed this weekend. Let me come
:14:57. > :15:02.on to what we are here to talk about, which is the Lords. Why have
:15:03. > :15:06.you raised the threat of the abolition of the Lord for doing its
:15:07. > :15:15.job of scrutinising what is coming out the Commons? Well, you know,
:15:16. > :15:19.Andrew, this question of the job of the House of Lords and scrutiny, has
:15:20. > :15:24.to be looked at carefully. There are all sorts of bills that come out the
:15:25. > :15:29.House of Commons which are detailed things that relate to, finance, and
:15:30. > :15:33.expenditure, and the criminal law, and all that sort of thing, and all
:15:34. > :15:37.of that, I admire the work that the House of Lords does, as you say
:15:38. > :15:43.scrutinising and we shouldn't use that word loosely, it means looking
:15:44. > :15:49.carefully at the detail, line by line of complicated legislation,
:15:50. > :15:52.hundreds of Paps in some cases, and spotting, using the considerable
:15:53. > :15:57.expertise many, not all be many of the peers have, in any given field,
:15:58. > :16:01.to identify things where the Commons has got it wrong in the sense that
:16:02. > :16:04.the legislation wouldn't achieve what the Government of the day is
:16:05. > :16:09.seeking to make it achieve. That is a serious proper role for an Upper
:16:10. > :16:13.House and the House of Lords performs it pretty
:16:14. > :16:24.Now this is a very different case. This is a two clause bill. The first
:16:25. > :16:30.clause which is the operative clause says the Prime Minister should go
:16:31. > :16:36.ahead and sign... I understand all that. We haven't got that much time,
:16:37. > :16:43.this is becoming a monologue. There is nothing to scrutinise, Andrew.
:16:44. > :16:48.There were plenty of amendments put before the Commons, none of them got
:16:49. > :16:51.through, it is true. There are eight Labour amendments in the Lords, are
:16:52. > :16:57.you resigned to this bill coming back to the Commons with amendments?
:16:58. > :17:00.No, it should not come back with amendments. There were hundreds of
:17:01. > :17:04.amendments literally put down in the House of Commons, they were all
:17:05. > :17:08.drunk. They were all trying one way or another to derail the process.
:17:09. > :17:16.This is a binary issue, should Theresa May sign the withdrawal or
:17:17. > :17:21.not? What should the Commons do? The Commons has now voted in favour of
:17:22. > :17:30.it. Node do should tolerate and unelected chamber forcing the
:17:31. > :17:33.British people... The people voted in a referendum and the Commons
:17:34. > :17:39.voted. The matter is now signed and sealed and should not be derailed by
:17:40. > :17:43.the House of Lords. On Labour amendment wants confirmation that
:17:44. > :17:47.when it is done, the potential Brexit agreement will be put before
:17:48. > :17:52.parliament before any vote in the European Parliament, that has been
:17:53. > :17:57.an agreed principle, what is wrong with that amendments? The government
:17:58. > :18:00.has already agreed there will be a vote, but actually, what the
:18:01. > :18:05.amendments were seeking was to give the Commons a further vote on
:18:06. > :18:09.whether we actually leave or not. That is already decided. Neither the
:18:10. > :18:14.House of Lords nor anybody else has a right in my view, despite the fact
:18:15. > :18:19.I was a remain, to what the will of the British people. Nobody should
:18:20. > :18:24.think an unelected chamber should now try to change the course of
:18:25. > :18:29.British history by asserting amendments in a very effective on
:18:30. > :18:32.clause bill which says go ahead and trigger Article 50. Are you
:18:33. > :18:35.concerned that amendments by the Lords which would then have to go
:18:36. > :18:42.back to the Commons for consideration, are you concerned
:18:43. > :18:47.that could derail or delay the Prime Minister's timetable for Article 50?
:18:48. > :18:52.Yes, exactly. That would be the result of a prolonged bout of
:18:53. > :18:55.ping-pong between the two houses, or much worse, if the House of Lords
:18:56. > :19:00.failed to give way and the Parliament act had to be used. It
:19:01. > :19:04.would really be intolerable. It is not good for our country. Those of
:19:05. > :19:10.us who voted remain would prefer for that not to happen. The whole
:19:11. > :19:15.country -- it is important for the whole country that this happens in a
:19:16. > :19:19.rapid way and allowing the government free rein to negotiate,
:19:20. > :19:23.that is surely in all our advantages? Deed think any efforts
:19:24. > :19:28.to abolish the House of Lords, an issue you have raised, does that
:19:29. > :19:35.make it easier because your friend David Cameron stuffed the upper
:19:36. > :19:39.chamber with donors, lapdogs and lingerie designers? I was among
:19:40. > :19:44.those who advocated for many years wholesale reform of the House of
:19:45. > :19:48.Lords, to turn it into a serious elected second chamber. I think we
:19:49. > :19:53.should have an upper house which commands legitimacy. This is a
:19:54. > :19:58.second issue. Here we have not got such a House and it seems to be very
:19:59. > :20:02.clear that it should not seek to derail on delay the action which has
:20:03. > :20:06.been mandated by the referendum, agreed by the House of Commons, and
:20:07. > :20:12.what we want to see now is a smooth orderly effect for this bill, so it
:20:13. > :20:17.becomes law and Theresa May can go ahead and negotiate on our behalf.
:20:18. > :20:20.One more question on the process, if the Lords to amend the bill and it
:20:21. > :20:26.goes back to the Commons and the Commons sends these amendments back
:20:27. > :20:33.again, take them out, how long could this ping-pong between the two
:20:34. > :20:37.chambers go on in your experience? It is a very, very interesting and
:20:38. > :20:42.complicated question with the clerks of the two ends of the Palace of
:20:43. > :20:47.Westminster not always agreeing about this. But through certain
:20:48. > :20:50.machinations of slightly changing amendments as they go, in my
:20:51. > :20:54.experience this could carry on for an awful long time if clever people,
:20:55. > :20:57.and there are plenty of clever people in the House of Lords, want
:20:58. > :21:02.to do that and that is precisely why I think we should not tolerate it.
:21:03. > :21:04.Oliver Letwin, thank you for joining us from Dorset.
:21:05. > :21:09.Joining me now is Labour's Leader in the House of Lords, Angela Smith.
:21:10. > :21:15.The Commons passed this bill without any amendments... There were
:21:16. > :21:20.changes, the government did concede a couple of points. But the
:21:21. > :21:25.amendments did not go through. Does that put pressure on the Lords to do
:21:26. > :21:29.the same? I think the Lords always feels under pressure to do the right
:21:30. > :21:35.thing. When I heard Oliver Letwin, I did not know whether to laugh or
:21:36. > :21:41.cry. We will not frustrate, we will not wreck, we will not sabotage. We
:21:42. > :21:45.will do what David Davis said was our patriotic duty. We will
:21:46. > :21:49.scrutinise the bill. We have at amendments from the Labour Party. We
:21:50. > :21:52.will look at those. It depends on the government response if we vote
:21:53. > :21:56.on those. There could be amendments asking the Commons to look again.
:21:57. > :22:02.That is normally what we do. It is not the wrong thing to do. But if
:22:03. > :22:07.you do this and make amendments, it then goes back to the Commons. If
:22:08. > :22:11.the Commons rejects the Lords' amendments, what do you think will
:22:12. > :22:17.happen? I do not see any extended ping-pong at all. It is perfectly
:22:18. > :22:21.legitimate. We are not talking about the outcome of negotiations, we are
:22:22. > :22:24.talking about the process. The process of engaging with Parliament
:22:25. > :22:28.and reporting to Parliament. It would be totally responsible for
:22:29. > :22:31.Parliament to say, off you go, Theresa May, have two years of
:22:32. > :22:35.negotiation and come back and talk to us at the end. The has to be a
:22:36. > :22:40.process where the government can use the expertise of parliament to get
:22:41. > :22:46.this right. But if you do put in some amendments, it has to go back
:22:47. > :22:48.to the Commons, they may well say they don't want those amendments and
:22:49. > :22:54.it may go back to the Lords, could that at the very least delay the
:22:55. > :22:59.Prime Minister's Brexit timetable? I don't think so. She said the end of
:23:00. > :23:03.March. Time has been built in for all the normal processes. I think
:23:04. > :23:06.Oliver Letwin and others are getting a bit overexcited. This is the
:23:07. > :23:10.normal process. Unless the government get things right the
:23:11. > :23:15.first time every time, the has to be this kind of process. These are
:23:16. > :23:19.reasonable amendments. This is a Labour amendment we are talking
:23:20. > :23:32.about here, you want a vote in the UK Parliament before any
:23:33. > :23:36.vote in the European Parliament if and when the Brexit deal is done,
:23:37. > :23:39.the Commons and the Lords get to vote on it first. But the government
:23:40. > :23:43.I think have already agreed to that so what is the point? It needs to be
:23:44. > :23:45.on the face of the bill. It is over well if the government have agreed
:23:46. > :23:49.it. Lord dubs had an agreement about child and look what happened to
:23:50. > :23:55.that. Does not sound as if you would go to the wire on that? It is
:23:56. > :24:00.important it is not just about the vote at the end, you have the
:24:01. > :24:05.ongoing engagement. If it is going to be a bad deal, we need to know
:24:06. > :24:10.long before we get to that stage? Is it something you would hold out for?
:24:11. > :24:15.I don't know yet. It is about how the House of Lords votes, Labour do
:24:16. > :24:19.not have a majority, we never had a majority in the House of Lords when
:24:20. > :24:24.we were in government. It is wrong to suggest that we cannot debate
:24:25. > :24:30.these issues... I don't think anyone is suggesting that. They are. It is
:24:31. > :24:34.not unfair to ask the government to ask the House of Commons to look
:24:35. > :24:38.again to look at those issues if that is what the House of Lords
:24:39. > :24:43.decides. Bit of the House of Commons says we looked, we are sticking with
:24:44. > :24:47.what we voted for, we rejected every amendment by at least 30 votes on
:24:48. > :24:52.all occasions, the Lords then have to buckle, is that what you are
:24:53. > :24:55.saying? Some point I think it is clear the House of Commons have to
:24:56. > :24:59.have its say. I think it is inconceivable that having had a
:25:00. > :25:05.referendum, which was not overwhelming, but it was a clear
:25:06. > :25:07.result, the House of Lords has no intention of sabotaging that but
:25:08. > :25:12.there are things which are not good about the process that we think
:25:13. > :25:16.could be improved. We have not just have the result of the referendum
:25:17. > :25:21.which voted to leave, but we have had the will of the Commons that
:25:22. > :25:28.passed this legislation by a majority of 372. And I am not
:25:29. > :25:32.contesting that for a second! Could you cite a precedent for the upper
:25:33. > :25:37.house amending a bill which passed by 372 votes in the Commons? Quite
:25:38. > :25:40.other things will come to the House of Lords with big majorities from
:25:41. > :25:44.the Commons and quite often the amendments we get, with that then
:25:45. > :25:50.forward and the government sees it could do better. Though not
:25:51. > :25:52.necessarily saying the government has got things wrong, but they could
:25:53. > :25:58.do things better. That happens time and time again and it is not
:25:59. > :26:03.unusual. If you were seen to thwart the referendum result and the vote
:26:04. > :26:07.in the Commons, the elected chamber of parliament, is the threat of
:26:08. > :26:11.abolition hanging over you? I think that is really ridiculous and
:26:12. > :26:14.absolute nonsense. We are not tying to what the decision of the House of
:26:15. > :26:18.Commons, we are trying to do better. It is a bit rich of the government
:26:19. > :26:23.and Oliver Letwin to complain about getting things through in time when
:26:24. > :26:28.the House of Commons spent -- the government spent three months trying
:26:29. > :26:31.to debate this issue. There have been some strong questions put to
:26:32. > :26:35.the government from the House of Lords on all sides. I don't know if
:26:36. > :26:44.the amendments have been passed or not. I think we have a good case for
:26:45. > :26:51.the government to get debate the point. If a traditional MP like
:26:52. > :26:54.Oliver Letwin is calling for the abolition of the hereditary and
:26:55. > :26:58.appointed chamber, and the Labour person like yourself was trying to
:26:59. > :27:04.defend that, that would not be a sustainable position, I would
:27:05. > :27:06.suggest! We saw this with the Strathclyde report as well, this is
:27:07. > :27:10.a government like no other. It is the first Conservative government in
:27:11. > :27:15.history not to have an automatic majority. They do not like challenge
:27:16. > :27:20.or scrutiny. But you get my point, Labour cannot go to the wire in
:27:21. > :27:23.defending and an elected second chamber, can it? Actually, Labour
:27:24. > :27:27.can go to the wire in saying the government does not get it right
:27:28. > :27:33.every time. House of Lords is going to normal processes and people like
:27:34. > :27:37.Oliver Letwin are really getting a little bit over excited, and people
:27:38. > :27:44.who have been anonymously briefing. Who has been anonymously briefing? I
:27:45. > :27:47.don't know, they are anonymous! I understand people want to make
:27:48. > :27:51.amendments, that is the role of the House of Lords, but can I just for
:27:52. > :27:55.the avoidance of doubt, is it still your case that whatever amendments
:27:56. > :28:00.to make, whatever may go back and forward, it is not your intention to
:28:01. > :28:06.stop Article 50 being triggered by the end of March? I have been saying
:28:07. > :28:09.that, exactly that for months and months and months. It is
:28:10. > :28:12.inconceivable that an unelected House will thwart the will of the
:28:13. > :28:16.House of Commons and a referendum on this issue. But that does not mean
:28:17. > :28:21.we will be bullied by Oliver Letwin and others. But the triggering will
:28:22. > :28:27.happen by the end of March? I very much suspect so unless Theresa May
:28:28. > :28:30.has second thoughts, I suspect that will happen. Thank you.
:28:31. > :28:32.Now, just because it's parliamentary recess next week
:28:33. > :28:35.There are two by-elections round the corner -
:28:36. > :28:38.one in Copeland, and another in Stoke-on-Trent Central
:28:39. > :28:39.where the former Shadow Education Secretary,
:28:40. > :28:41.Tristram Hunt, vacated his seat to take up a role
:28:42. > :28:44.as Director of the Victoria Albert Museum in London.
:28:45. > :28:47.But Labour are facing a fight to hold onto the constituency
:28:48. > :28:53.Seconds away, Ukip's new leader has stepped into the ring
:28:54. > :28:55.as their candidate in a by-election bout to see
:28:56. > :29:03.At the last election Ukip came second to Labour here
:29:04. > :29:07.But now they are confident they can land a knockout blow,
:29:08. > :29:14.because this place is packed with people that voted to leave the EU.
:29:15. > :29:17.70% of people voted to leave the European Union.
:29:18. > :29:25.I'm the only candidate standing in this election
:29:26. > :29:28.who is a true Brexiteer, who has always campaigned to leave
:29:29. > :29:31.the EU and therefore I believe I would be the best person
:29:32. > :29:33.But he has had to fight off allegations
:29:34. > :29:36.he wasn't living in the constituency when he entered the contest.
:29:37. > :29:39.Explain to me what is going on with this issue about your house?
:29:40. > :29:42.Well, we took up the lease the day before nominations.
:29:43. > :29:44.Everything we've done is perfectly legal and within the law.
:29:45. > :29:50.The Labour Party are trying to get off the real issues in this election
:29:51. > :29:56.and focus on something which is banal nonsense.
:29:57. > :30:02.And there's been trouble as well for the Labour contender.
:30:03. > :30:04.He's been labelled a Remoaner after he sent a series
:30:05. > :30:07.of anti-Brexit tweets, filled with words
:30:08. > :30:18.I can't believe I'm about to ask this question in a nursery
:30:19. > :30:21.on a Sunday morning TV programme, but did you really tweet that
:30:22. > :30:25.I tweeted many things about Brexit, that's tweet is out there.
:30:26. > :30:28.It was done quite after the referendum result and it
:30:29. > :30:31.was my way of showing my frustration at the fact that months
:30:32. > :30:36.after the result we hadn't had anything from the government.
:30:37. > :30:38.Theresa May had failed to produce any plan,
:30:39. > :30:40.she had failed to give any meaningful statement
:30:41. > :30:42.about what Brexit meant other than bland statements
:30:43. > :30:45.about Brexit is Brexit, and it's a hard Brexit, or a soft Brexit.
:30:46. > :30:49.The context of it was it was out of frustration.
:30:50. > :30:52.So you didn't mean to insult the 70% of the people who live here
:30:53. > :30:56.I never mean to insult anybody and you know,
:30:57. > :30:58.I've made it quite clear, if I'm elected as the member
:30:59. > :31:00.of Parliament for Stoke-on-Trent Central, I will absolutely respect
:31:01. > :31:02.the wishes of the people of Stoke Central.
:31:03. > :31:06.I will make sure my vote in parliament is to trigger Article 50.
:31:07. > :31:09.While the Tories' man has done little bit of rebranding too.
:31:10. > :31:12.I voted Remain and I've been open about that, but my top priority
:31:13. > :31:15.is about the economy and to ensure we still have an
:31:16. > :31:18.Theresa May has set out clear proposal to ensure we develop
:31:19. > :31:29.a trade relationship with Europe and make that a success.
:31:30. > :31:32.It means the Lib Dems and the Greens are the ones battling Brexit.
:31:33. > :31:34.Well, when the Lib Dem candidate is actually here.
:31:35. > :31:40.The candidate is a consultant cardiologist.
:31:41. > :31:42.He is actually at work today doing very important heart surgery.
:31:43. > :31:45.He will be back tomorrow, back on the campaign trail working hard.
:31:46. > :31:49.30% of people voted to Remain and nobody else
:31:50. > :31:53.is representing them, so, you know, it is still a live issue.
:31:54. > :31:55.It is still something people care about.
:31:56. > :31:57.We are only at the start of the Article 50 process
:31:58. > :32:02.We are very a clear that we are standing up for those
:32:03. > :32:05.who want to remain in the single market, who want to protect jobs
:32:06. > :32:10.Labour have taken people for granted in this area for a great many years.
:32:11. > :32:13.Ukip, I'm afraid, all Ukip can offer to politics is division.
:32:14. > :32:15.I've covered a lot of by-elections where Ukip have come second.
:32:16. > :32:18.We'll find out if they really got Labour on the ropes this
:32:19. > :32:38.And here is a full list of all the candidates standing
:32:39. > :32:49.in the Stoke-on-Trent Central by-election.
:32:50. > :32:58.They do atract lots of candidates. You can get that on the BBC website
:32:59. > :33:06.as well. I was trying to think back, here we have the main opposition
:33:07. > :33:08.party defending two seats in by-elections in the midterm of a
:33:09. > :33:15.government. All the speculation is where the
:33:16. > :33:20.opposition party can hold on, that is unprecedented. I can't give of an
:33:21. > :33:26.equivalent. You wouldn't just expect them to win seats they have held
:33:27. > :33:32.traditionally, you would expect hem to make inroads into seats held by
:33:33. > :33:35.the other party, I wonder if they fail to hold on to just one of
:33:36. > :33:41.these, whether it accelerates the momentum and criticism of the
:33:42. > :33:45.leadership of the moment. I think they are interesting constituencies.
:33:46. > :33:51.Matthew good win was talking about the left win coalition over the
:33:52. > :33:58.years, almost being too broad for its own good, including places like
:33:59. > :34:03.Primrose Hill and Hackney. Big university towns in Manchester,
:34:04. > :34:12.Bristol. Diverse ethnically and included places like Stoke which are
:34:13. > :34:17.more Conservative. With a small c. Less economically well-off, more
:34:18. > :34:20.diverse, can the left hang on to both bits of country. Recent
:34:21. > :34:24.evidence suggests it cannot and the opportunity for Ukip is to pick up
:34:25. > :34:28.the second of those two types of community, the Stokes and the cope
:34:29. > :34:32.lands. That what makes the by-elections interest I would
:34:33. > :34:37.suggest. It is not just about Mr Corbyn's future about which we hear
:34:38. > :34:41.too much, it is about this traditional Labour coalition, can it
:34:42. > :34:46.still survive, particularly in places like Stoke? Europe clearly is
:34:47. > :34:53.a test. I think it's a myth by the way that Labour are only split now,
:34:54. > :34:57.over Europe and it has always been a Tory problem, last time I was on I
:34:58. > :35:04.mentioned it. That is why we had a referendum in 75. That is why they
:35:05. > :35:09.had a round then. But they were in chaos behind the scenes over what
:35:10. > :35:14.they thought about the euro, skillful leadership can paper over
:35:15. > :35:18.the cracks, and to address the wider issue of whether we are now in an
:35:19. > :35:23.era where left right issues have disappeared, and there is more of a
:35:24. > :35:30.regional divide, if you take Europe out of the equation which you can't,
:35:31. > :35:34.but if you were able to, issues about health, transport housing do
:35:35. > :35:39.split more left-right than a regional divide, so I think there is
:35:40. > :35:44.still fundamental left-right issues, but Europe isn't one of them and
:35:45. > :35:48.Europe has to be managed by a Labour leader skill fully and evidently
:35:49. > :35:53.that hasn't happened now. How would you see the by-elections in the
:35:54. > :35:58.current political context? Labour should be walking them, it should be
:35:59. > :36:00.a sign of the March of the Labour Party taking on the current
:36:01. > :36:03.Conservative Government. I don't think they raise any questions about
:36:04. > :36:07.Corbyn's leadership because the people who put him in don't think
:36:08. > :36:12.that winning elections matter, you have to remember this will be the
:36:13. > :36:17.mainstream media, it will be our fault why any of those Labour
:36:18. > :36:20.candidates don't win, the thing that is interesting is whether there is
:36:21. > :36:24.is a role for Ukip. The argument after the referendum was Ukip has
:36:25. > :36:30.done its job, it got the referendum, nothing to see here, I remember
:36:31. > :36:37.speaking to put a Nuttall before he was Ukip leader, on the day after
:36:38. > :36:41.the battle and he said this is Year Zero, where Ukip starts now, and
:36:42. > :36:44.this, and this is the interesting thing, does, do we see this one
:36:45. > :36:49.particular party having a role in the future? And I think it is all to
:36:50. > :36:53.play for, they could not not have stood in this seat. They have to win
:36:54. > :36:57.it to be an electoral force. The Labour candidate in Copeland has
:36:58. > :37:00.made the NHS the issue for her in this, that goes into the left-right,
:37:01. > :37:06.are we spending enough, are we not? That will be a test of what you were
:37:07. > :37:09.saying to see if traditional left-right issue, which at the
:37:10. > :37:13.moment would play Labour's way I would suggest, are big enough to
:37:14. > :37:17.overcome all the things you have been talking about and Matthew has
:37:18. > :37:21.been talking about. Maybe at this particular junction they are not,
:37:22. > :37:27.but I don't think any of those issues will go away, and that is why
:37:28. > :37:33.I question whether we are see the end of a historic left-right divide.
:37:34. > :37:36.At the moment with Europe so prominent, clearly these
:37:37. > :37:40.by-elections are unusual. And they will be a test of leadership for
:37:41. > :37:44.Theresa May in the coming months if not at the moment, as they have been
:37:45. > :37:49.in a way that he hasn't risen to, for the Labour leader.
:37:50. > :37:53.We will be leave on BBC One on the night, February 23rd off back of
:37:54. > :37:55.this week, we will bring you the result of both these crucial
:37:56. > :37:58.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:59. > :38:01.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:02. > :38:17.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:38:18. > :38:19.In the East Midlands, women on the march.
:38:20. > :38:21.# When I get older, dyeing my hair...#
:38:22. > :38:23.Thousands affected by changes to their pension age
:38:24. > :38:26.Over 2.6 million women across the UK have
:38:27. > :38:31.lost ?36,000, up to ?40,000 out of a planned pension pot, which
:38:32. > :38:39.And the Brexit hotspots, and the polling
:38:40. > :38:41.centre which exactly matched the national results.
:38:42. > :38:43.A new survey produces a detailed map of how the
:38:44. > :38:48.region voted, but has anyone changed their mind?
:38:49. > :38:51.I think it will do the country good. So...
:38:52. > :38:54.Get it back to English-grown produce.
:38:55. > :38:55.We could start trading in other countries
:38:56. > :39:01.I had no big reason to vote to stay in, I just thought
:39:02. > :39:04.it was a logical reason to stay in, because I think it's more
:39:05. > :39:11.Hello, I'm Marie Ashby, and my guests this week -
:39:12. > :39:14.Mark Spencer is the Conservative MP for Sherwood, and Margot Parker
:39:15. > :39:16.is a Ukip member for the European Parliament
:39:17. > :39:20.And let's start by looking at a story raised in
:39:21. > :39:27.A Derbyshire headteacher who normally runs marathons
:39:28. > :39:33.for charity is having to raise funds for his school instead.
:39:34. > :39:36.Dave Shaw is head of the Spire Primary School in Chesterfield,
:39:37. > :39:38.which is facing a ?19,000 cut in its budget.
:39:39. > :39:40.His case was raised by Toby Perkins at this week's
:39:41. > :39:49.The headteacher, Dave Shaw, was running
:39:50. > :39:52.However, her new school's funding formula means that
:39:53. > :39:53.Spire Junior School now faces the biggest cuts
:39:54. > :39:59.Running for cash is now the only alternative to sacking staff.
:40:00. > :40:01.Mark Spencer - Dave Shaw, there, used to
:40:02. > :40:05.Running marathons for charity is one thing, but having
:40:06. > :40:10.to run to pay his staff's wages - that's mad!
:40:11. > :40:13.Yes, I think clearly every pupil, whether they are in
:40:14. > :40:16.Chesterfield or in Sherwood, should get the same amount of funding right
:40:17. > :40:19.across the country and that's what we're trying to achieve.
:40:20. > :40:21.At the moment, a pupil in Nottinghamshire
:40:22. > :40:27.If you compare that to Islington, to pick a
:40:28. > :40:30.constituency at random, that's over ?6,000 per pupil, and even if you
:40:31. > :40:32.consider the London weighting of that, that's
:40:33. > :40:38.So, the good news is that Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire on average, when
:40:39. > :40:41.we apply this new formula, win on average.
:40:42. > :40:44.So I think you've got to bring balance to the country so that
:40:45. > :40:47.a pupil in Sherwood gets the same cash as a pupil anywhere else.
:40:48. > :40:49.And headteachers like Dave don't have to
:40:50. > :40:52.go running to try to get money to pay the wages.
:40:53. > :40:54.This isn't just a one-off, though, Mark, is it?
:40:55. > :40:56.The PTA, the charity which supports parents,
:40:57. > :40:59.reported just over a week ago that more than a third of
:41:00. > :41:01.parents are being asked to contribute to school funds to top it
:41:02. > :41:08.Well, I mean, I think if you go back, parent teacher associations
:41:09. > :41:09.have existed forever, and there's always
:41:10. > :41:10.something else you can buy to
:41:11. > :41:15.Yes, but this is for books and things like that that children need
:41:16. > :41:19.So, we need to make sure that the funding system for our
:41:20. > :41:21.schools is fair right across the country,
:41:22. > :41:23.and whether you are a pupil here in Nottinghamshire or
:41:24. > :41:25.Derbyshire or Leicestershire, you get the same support, the same
:41:26. > :41:28.amount of cash, as anywhere else in the country,
:41:29. > :41:32.Margot Parker, what do you think about this?
:41:33. > :41:37.I think clearly it's got to be balanced out.
:41:38. > :41:42.It's not right that somebody runs to handle load of
:41:43. > :41:44.It's not right that somebody runs to hand a load of
:41:45. > :41:48.money over in order to be able to maintain a teacher or maintain
:41:49. > :41:50.breakfast at school, or whatever it is they are trying to do.
:41:51. > :41:52.There should be an equal playing field.
:41:53. > :41:55.You can't mess around with education - it's got to be fair.
:41:56. > :41:58.Yes, it's massive, it's not acceptable.
:41:59. > :42:03.It's worth pointing out, at the moment
:42:04. > :42:05.it's not fair, so there are schools who are
:42:06. > :42:07.getting a lot less cash in
:42:08. > :42:09.Nottinghamshire than in other parts of the country.
:42:10. > :42:13.Well, to be quite honest, education is very
:42:14. > :42:17.I mean, at the end of the day, it has to be found from
:42:18. > :42:21.I'm not an education spokesperson, but I can tell you
:42:22. > :42:24.that you got to have a fairness, you got to have kids that,
:42:25. > :42:26.if they don't get breakfast, a breakfast is
:42:27. > :42:28.That's important, because no child should
:42:29. > :42:31.have to start the day hungry, or any other way.
:42:32. > :42:37.So, wherever it comes from, I think it has to be found, because
:42:38. > :42:40.the children are the future, at the end of the day.
:42:41. > :42:44.It's not their fault - we have to really look after them.
:42:45. > :42:47.Well, hundreds of women from across the East Midlands
:42:48. > :42:50.are planning to join a national protest in London next month
:42:51. > :42:53.The so-called Waspis, or Women Against State Pension Inequality,
:42:54. > :42:55.are angry that changes to their retirement age
:42:56. > :42:57.have left them having to work longer than planned
:42:58. > :43:00.Our political reporter Helen McCulloch's been
:43:01. > :43:05.# Send me a forecast, drop me a line, try to change your mind.
:43:06. > :43:10.# Indicate precisely what you mean to say, Waspi women,
:43:11. > :43:16.The Waspi campaign began two years ago when women born
:43:17. > :43:26.Two pensions acts aimed at bringing women's retirement age in line
:43:27. > :43:30.with men meant women born in the 50s would have to wait until they were
:43:31. > :43:35.Campaigners say they were never informed of the changes,
:43:36. > :43:41.We're very angry and very frustrated, and I've completely lost
:43:42. > :43:43.all trust in the government and politicians and systems
:43:44. > :43:49.I paid a full stamp, and I honestly thought
:43:50. > :43:51.I would get my pension when I reached 60,
:43:52. > :43:56.I organised this big party, everything, thinking...
:43:57. > :44:03.And two weeks before this, then I get told off,
:44:04. > :44:10.Tricia Clough is one of the main coordinators of the campaign,
:44:11. > :44:13.and insists the government failed to inform millions of women
:44:14. > :44:17.The government are saying, we've put it out on the news,
:44:18. > :44:20.we had a news item, and we also put little articles in newspapers.
:44:21. > :44:26.We've had women who've lost their partners, who have had
:44:27. > :44:36.We've had some women who had to go on jobseekers' schemes,
:44:37. > :44:38.which they've found really difficult emotionally, physically...
:44:39. > :44:40.Meetings like this are happening up and down the country,
:44:41. > :44:43.and it seems the Waspi movement shows no signs of slowing down,
:44:44. > :44:47.but not everybody has welcomed their campaign.
:44:48. > :44:52.If the Waspi campaign got their way, which was for
:44:53. > :44:55.If the Waspi campaign got their way, which was for a bridging pension
:44:56. > :45:00.in the 1950s, then a woman born on the 1st of January 1960 would not
:45:01. > :45:03.only see her classmate one day older gets six years of tension
:45:04. > :45:06.only see her classmate one day older gets six years of pension
:45:07. > :45:09.that she would not get, but she would have to paperback
:45:10. > :45:12.that she would not get, but she would have to pay for that
:45:13. > :45:14.through higher national insurance contributions and higher taxes.
:45:15. > :45:17.I can't see how that is in anyway fair.
:45:18. > :45:19.The other group of I think who are grossly discriminated
:45:20. > :45:28.The Department for Work and Pensions say that the decision to equalise
:45:29. > :45:32.the state pension age was made over 20 years ago, and there are no
:45:33. > :45:35.My husband's retired now, and the two of us
:45:36. > :45:39.We are just having to scrape through.
:45:40. > :45:48.Making sure their voices are heard is a key priority for this campaign.
:45:49. > :45:51.The next step, a march on Parliament on budget day.
:45:52. > :46:04.# Will you still bleed me, corrupt and greedy,
:46:05. > :46:08.That's what those women are saying, Mark Spencer, and you
:46:09. > :46:10.probably recognise them, because some of them are actually your
:46:11. > :46:13.constituents and I know that you've met them, and actually,
:46:14. > :46:15.they say that you've been very dismissive of
:46:16. > :46:19.Well, I've met them a number of times, actually.
:46:20. > :46:21.I've met them certainly in the constituency, I've
:46:22. > :46:23.met them in London when they came to London.
:46:24. > :46:27.I think there's some good news in this in that clearly society
:46:28. > :46:29.has changed, women's roles have changed since the 1950s.
:46:30. > :46:31.Of course we are living a lot longer, so...
:46:32. > :46:33.They haven't got enough money for their retirement.
:46:34. > :46:38.If you go back to the 50s, people would retire at 65 as a
:46:39. > :46:40.man and probably would pass away in their early 70s.
:46:41. > :46:42.Now we are all living to, sort of, 80 plus,
:46:43. > :46:45.These women say they've never really had
:46:46. > :46:47.equality, and now this is happening to them.
:46:48. > :46:50.So, the pension needs to adapt to those circumstances, and
:46:51. > :46:53.we've got to be fair to those women coming behind, to the 18-year-old
:46:54. > :46:55.girl who is coming out of university who's
:46:56. > :46:56.going to have to fund this
:46:57. > :47:02.system, so we've got to get the balance right.
:47:03. > :47:04.The government has listened, actually, and made ?1 billion
:47:05. > :47:07.of concessions, so it only makes about a year's difference
:47:08. > :47:13.OK, Margot Parker, the women fighting this change feel
:47:14. > :47:17.that they haven't really been given enough notice on this, as you heard
:47:18. > :47:20.Is that really fair, though, actually?
:47:21. > :47:23.Because the law's been in place for nearly 20 years now.
:47:24. > :47:27.Yes, it has, and I am quite sorry for them,
:47:28. > :47:29.because I think, to be honest, you know, they will have
:47:30. > :47:32.brought their children up, they will often have had jobs
:47:33. > :47:35.where they are perhaps working in local government,
:47:36. > :47:37.you know, not terribly well paid, paid their contribution, thought
:47:38. > :47:43.they were going to get their pension, and then, this particular
:47:44. > :47:47.group, I think, you know, also take care
:47:48. > :47:52.their families, so I think you've got a balance there where they are
:47:53. > :47:56.But there has to be a cut-off, doesn't that?
:47:57. > :48:01.Because what about people who were born in the 1960s?
:48:02. > :48:04.Well, this is true, but there has got to
:48:05. > :48:07.people are paid today so that they can actually
:48:08. > :48:13.They've got to have the dignity of a reasonable pension
:48:14. > :48:16.that they can survive on, because, if they said, well, I've only got
:48:17. > :48:19.this amount of money, and frankly, I can't pay my bills...
:48:20. > :48:21.This is an issue where dignity is really important,
:48:22. > :48:24.because it is very harsh for some of the 500,000 women
:48:25. > :48:29.They have paid into their pensions, they were expecting to see some of
:48:30. > :48:32.Some of them are having to go onto Jobseeker's
:48:33. > :48:33.Allowance, and they say that's degrading -
:48:34. > :48:35.they shouldn't have to be doing that, Mark.
:48:36. > :48:40.Wherever you draw the line, someone is going to lose out.
:48:41. > :48:41.But should they be on Jobseeker's Allowance?
:48:42. > :48:44.Wouldn't you rather they get the money that they've put in?
:48:45. > :48:46.I think, to be fair, my mother is 70,
:48:47. > :48:49.My mother in law is 71, and she's still working,
:48:50. > :48:53.so lots of women are fit and able to work and enjoy that, actually
:48:54. > :48:57.government, then, write to these women
:48:58. > :48:58.individually and say, this is
:48:59. > :49:00.what's going to happen, it unique to prepare
:49:01. > :49:02.what's going to happen, it, you need to prepare
:49:03. > :49:03.for this, we're letting you
:49:04. > :49:07.I mean, to be fair, Mark, we all got letters about
:49:08. > :49:10.There was an enormous amount of coverage in the
:49:11. > :49:13.media and in the press, and lots of women were written to.
:49:14. > :49:15.Now, some of the Waspi women are saying they
:49:16. > :49:19.Now, of course, there's no way of knowing
:49:20. > :49:21.whether those letters arrived or not, or...
:49:22. > :49:23.There wasn't enough notification, maybe they should have
:49:24. > :49:26.There was an enormous amount of coverage,
:49:27. > :49:27.though, in the press, about the equalisation
:49:28. > :49:31.women's pensions having to equalise and come at the same time.
:49:32. > :49:34.We've got to be fair to everybody, so, for those
:49:35. > :49:37.But how can we afford to compensate these women,
:49:38. > :49:39.how could we afford to compensate them?
:49:40. > :49:42.It's a question of balancing looking after people that
:49:43. > :49:45.I mean, dare I go onto the foreign aid
:49:46. > :49:48.budget, maybe I shouldn't, but, you know, there is money,
:49:49. > :49:52.Not ?30 billion, which is what it's going to cost.
:49:53. > :50:00.Not everybody in their 50s is saying they do help.
:50:01. > :50:02.What about giving to those who really are in more need
:50:03. > :50:06.Targeted help to help them, would that be a way of
:50:07. > :50:09.I think that's probably quite sensible.
:50:10. > :50:13.I think you've got to judge cases are they are, and
:50:14. > :50:15.people who have to care for, you know, very sick people,
:50:16. > :50:16.and they are not really being helped.
:50:17. > :50:19.I mean, a lot of people give up their lives,
:50:20. > :50:22.give up perhaps going back into work because they've got sick relatives.
:50:23. > :50:25.You know, I'd like to see a fair system there so that they are not
:50:26. > :50:28.There is a carer's allowance system, of course.
:50:29. > :50:31.To help people in those circumstances.
:50:32. > :50:33.These people are having to compete, as well,
:50:34. > :50:38.Women in their early 60s are going to try and find jobs
:50:39. > :50:40.younger people are going for as well.
:50:41. > :50:43.You want young people to get those jobs.
:50:44. > :50:47.I think women of that generation actually make very good
:50:48. > :50:52.I'm just saying what these women feel about being made to feel
:50:53. > :50:54.guilty, in a way, Mark, that's what they're saying.
:50:55. > :50:57.I'd be disappointed if they felt guilty,
:50:58. > :51:00.I think that would be wrong, if they were to feel like that.
:51:01. > :51:03.The fact that they are having to compete with
:51:04. > :51:06.I think we need to recognise where we are out, and
:51:07. > :51:09.I think we need to recognise where we are at, and
:51:10. > :51:11.there is this enormous challenge in the budget and an enormous
:51:12. > :51:17.properly, and that's what the government is doing.
:51:18. > :51:19.That March is on March the 8th in London.
:51:20. > :51:22.Now, it's been another week in which Brexit has dominated
:51:23. > :51:23.the political scene, with the East Midlands
:51:24. > :51:25.politicians once again at the forefront of the debate.
:51:26. > :51:29.The Grantham MP, Nick Bowles, who is being treated for cancer, left
:51:30. > :51:36.Meanwhile, Brockstowe's Anna Soubry couldn't hide her disgust
:51:37. > :51:38.at some of the debate, and Chris Leslie
:51:39. > :51:40.tabled dozens of amendments, which were all ignored.
:51:41. > :51:43.Of 35 amendments that I have tabled today, I've not been
:51:44. > :51:48.Doesn't it prove that the whole of the curtailing of this debate leaves
:51:49. > :51:53.Parliament and able to scrutinise the EU withdrawal?
:51:54. > :51:54.Parliament unable to scrutinise the EU withdrawal?
:51:55. > :51:56.So, looking at that vote in the Commons,
:51:57. > :52:01.government whip, of course, Ken Clarke was the only Tory who decided
:52:02. > :52:04.Did the whips tried to persuade him otherwise, or
:52:05. > :52:10.His commitments on Europe are well-known, and frankly, I admire
:52:11. > :52:13.him for that, for standing his ground, and defending his well-known
:52:14. > :52:14.position that he's had for a number of years.
:52:15. > :52:17.Now, of course, as the government, we need to recognise
:52:18. > :52:20.that the people took a decision to take it of Europe.
:52:21. > :52:23.that the people took a decision to take us of Europe.
:52:24. > :52:27.The government has to deliver that, and that's
:52:28. > :52:30.And a number of colleagues, including Chris Leslie,
:52:31. > :52:31.frankly, were just trying to slow the process,
:52:32. > :52:34.delay it and block it, and I think that is a travesty,
:52:35. > :52:38.Are you happy now, Margot, that this has passed through
:52:39. > :52:41.We are definitely going to be leaving?
:52:42. > :52:44.Well, yes, I mean, we are making a start, you know, and
:52:45. > :52:46.the heavy ground digging work, I suppose, takes place between the
:52:47. > :52:49.Council of Ministers and our own Brexit Minister, David Davis, who I
:52:50. > :52:51.think probably will do a very good job.
:52:52. > :52:56.Well, what happens in the European Parliament
:52:57. > :52:58.now, though, Margot, with
:52:59. > :53:01.all this activity in the Commons, do you just feel like you're on the
:53:02. > :53:02.sidelines as spectators, really, as a party?
:53:03. > :53:06.I mean, every day, we go through all sorts of
:53:07. > :53:09.things, you know, there are certain things we still have to clearly vote
:53:10. > :53:15.Immediately after Brexit, there was a very strong, very anti-UK mood
:53:16. > :53:18.Even our country's name was dragged off the
:53:19. > :53:26.I mean, it was put back two or three days later.
:53:27. > :53:36.Did it feel like this was a piece of history, this vote, Mark?
:53:37. > :53:40.It really did feel like it was a significant moment in our history,
:53:41. > :53:43.We'll look back at this moment, hopefully, through
:53:44. > :53:46.rose coloured spectacles, and say what a fantastic moment it was in 20
:53:47. > :53:49.years' time when we are trading with countries all over the world.
:53:50. > :53:55.Passions obviously running very high in the Commons.
:53:56. > :53:57.But away from Parliament, the BBC has been
:53:58. > :54:00.carrying out its own analysis of how the voting went in the referendum.
:54:01. > :54:03.It has looked at the results from individual polling stations and
:54:04. > :54:04.found one place here in the East Midlands
:54:05. > :54:06.where the voting exactly matched the national results.
:54:07. > :54:08.Our political editor Tony Rowe has been
:54:09. > :54:14.The 527 people who cast their votes in this pub polling station
:54:15. > :54:17.represent exactly the split between Remain and Leave in the country.
:54:18. > :54:20.51.99% voted that way when they walked
:54:21. > :54:26.into the pub to vote, so the
:54:27. > :54:30.picturesque villages of Mackworth and Kirk Langley, where Amber Valley
:54:31. > :54:34.meets Derby, are an exact barometer of how we feel is a country about
:54:35. > :54:43.Joe Wickes flies the cross of St George
:54:44. > :54:49.I think if there was a big vote again, I do think a
:54:50. > :54:50.lot of people would change their minds,
:54:51. > :54:52.because I think a lot of
:54:53. > :54:55.people like myself didn't realise how big it was, this Brexit thing,
:54:56. > :54:58.In Nottingham, the vote to Leave was narrow, but
:54:59. > :55:07.Bulwell marketplace is of course where the
:55:08. > :55:10.former city trader and then Ukip leader chose to bring his bust
:55:11. > :55:13.former city trader and then Ukip leader chose to bring his bus
:55:14. > :55:23.Shall we hum the theme tune, The Great Escape?
:55:24. > :55:25.We would be better off without the EU.
:55:26. > :55:27.We give too much money away and get no thanks for it.
:55:28. > :55:31.I think it would do the country good.
:55:32. > :55:34.Get it back to English grown produce.
:55:35. > :55:37.We could start trading in other countries apart from the EU, so it
:55:38. > :55:41.Research into how we voted also shows that older people were more
:55:42. > :55:45.Those we spoke to here certainly fit the bill.
:55:46. > :55:52.Ethnic minorities were less likely to vote to Leave.
:55:53. > :55:55.There are concerns about people's attitudes to anyone perceived,
:55:56. > :56:00.Because you're talking about immigrants, as well.
:56:01. > :56:02.All over the world there's immigrants, no matter which way you
:56:03. > :56:05.Where is all the immigrants going to go?
:56:06. > :56:08.Over on the other side of city, we have the
:56:09. > :56:10.Radford Park Ward, where they voted heavily to Remain.
:56:11. > :56:14.The research concluded that this part of Nottingham fits in with
:56:15. > :56:24.I think it's more of a community to stay together.
:56:25. > :56:27.I feel like when people start breaking up, it's like, that's
:56:28. > :56:38.The report, which examined how over 1,000 wards voted, shows a
:56:39. > :56:40.strong link with educational qualifications and voting.
:56:41. > :56:42.The better educated voted to Remain, the
:56:43. > :56:46.It could be about more than that, though.
:56:47. > :56:49.Poorer areas who feel left out, left behind, wanting to blame
:56:50. > :56:51.someone, accepting this simple argument to join the great escape
:56:52. > :57:00.from the EU, to make things better for them.
:57:01. > :57:02.Well, one thing that this BBC survey found, Margot Parker,
:57:03. > :57:10.But it's happened, and everybody, I do believe, wants us to get
:57:11. > :57:21.Let's sort it, let's get it fixed, let's go out and let's
:57:22. > :57:22.get good contracts around the world, let's
:57:23. > :57:24.make sure businesses in the
:57:25. > :57:26.East Midlands thrive, and all over the country, for that matter.
:57:27. > :57:29.There is a lot to be thankful for, that we
:57:30. > :57:33.As the world's fifth-largest economy we've got a lot to look forward to.
:57:34. > :57:35.But we did also hear that ethnic voters tended to vote
:57:36. > :57:38.Remain, and that they obviously still have a lot of concerns.
:57:39. > :57:40.What would you say to those ethnic voters?
:57:41. > :57:42.I would say, frankly, this will be sorted.
:57:43. > :57:45.I mean, nobody is likely to be asked to leave the country.
:57:46. > :57:52.I think that scaremongering of the very worst order.
:57:53. > :57:54.There is that fear, though, isn't there?
:57:55. > :57:57.Well, yes, but I think it's up to the government,
:57:58. > :58:01.actually, to calm that down and to say to people, look,
:58:02. > :58:03.of course we will resolve this, there won't be a problem.
:58:04. > :58:06.Clearly if you're here and you're working in the NHS, you will
:58:07. > :58:09.be working in the NHS and are most welcome to do so.
:58:10. > :58:12.So, if you have the skills, we are very happy.
:58:13. > :58:14.I think it's the large unskilled swathes of population coming in that
:58:15. > :58:18.we simply cannot afford to have, we can't afford, because all of the
:58:19. > :58:19.cascading down onto society makes a tremendous
:58:20. > :58:20.burden, so, fairness, but
:58:21. > :58:23.let's take care of people that are from Europe that work here.
:58:24. > :58:27.OK, well, with opinions so mixed, Mark, how do you
:58:28. > :58:29.actually go about representing your constituents when you have such a
:58:30. > :58:31.mix of views and feelings about this?
:58:32. > :58:34.So, you have to do what's right, and what is right is getting
:58:35. > :58:36.the best deal for the United Kingdom...
:58:37. > :58:37.You can't represent them all, though.
:58:38. > :58:43.I think you clearly can't represent the more in
:58:44. > :58:45.I think you clearly can't represent them all in
:58:46. > :58:48.terms of Remain or Leave, but I think we need to recognise that
:58:49. > :58:50.Remain and Leave has gone now, we are leaving
:58:51. > :58:51.the European Union, that
:58:52. > :58:53.was the democratic will of the people,
:58:54. > :58:55.and so we need to get the
:58:56. > :58:58.best deal for the United Kingdom, we need to make sure our relationships
:58:59. > :59:01.with our European colleagues improve and continue to trade with them and
:59:02. > :59:04.look to the rest of the world and continue to build our economy so
:59:05. > :59:07.that the jobs and prosperity flow down to those people who are my
:59:08. > :59:10.And you supported Remain whilst your constituents
:59:11. > :59:12.wanted to Leave, so how do you square that circle?
:59:13. > :59:14.Well, you have to take democracy on the chin,
:59:15. > :59:17.frankly, and, you know, Leave won, so we now
:59:18. > :59:18.have to commit to that and
:59:19. > :59:20.deliver what we can for the United Kingdom,
:59:21. > :59:21.and that comes down to the
:59:22. > :59:24.best deal we possibly can squeeze out of our European colleagues.
:59:25. > :59:26.They want to trade with us as well, it's
:59:27. > :59:28.a two-way street, so let's get out there,
:59:29. > :59:30.in the rest of the world as
:59:31. > :59:32.well, and, you know, build the economy
:59:33. > :59:37.Well, that's the message here in the studio!
:59:38. > :59:39.Time now for a round-up of some of the other
:59:40. > :59:41.political stories from the
:59:42. > :59:51.Grantham's Accident Emergency unit is to remain
:59:52. > :59:56.closed overnight because of a shortage of doctors.
:59:57. > :59:58.Lincolnshire Hospitals Trust says it's committed
:59:59. > :00:00.to reopening the unit, and is looking to recruit staff.
:00:01. > :00:03.Campaigners have dismissed the plan to open the service for an extra
:00:04. > :00:07.Derby City Council is to set up a crowdfunding
:00:08. > :00:09.website to raise money for small community projects.
:00:10. > :00:14.The authority is to spend ?45,000 setting up a
:00:15. > :00:17.platform on the Crowdfunder website, and will invite local groups to list
:00:18. > :00:21.Meanwhile, Derbyshire County Council has announced plans to increase
:00:22. > :00:29.It will add ?46 a year to the average band D household bill.
:00:30. > :00:31.A drive to have more electric taxis in Nottingham has been
:00:32. > :00:37.Nottingham has some of the worst air pollution figures in the country.
:00:38. > :00:39.The council wants to see more low emission vehicles
:00:40. > :00:47.The plans will also include a new code of conduct for drivers
:00:48. > :00:57.And that is the Sunday Politics here in the East Midlands.
:00:58. > :01:00.Thanks to our guests this week, Mark Spencer
:01:01. > :01:05.and Margot Parker, for joining us here in the studio.
:01:06. > :01:16.After the excitement and late nights in the Commons last week,
:01:17. > :01:19.MPs are having a little break this week as we head into
:01:20. > :01:23.But there's still plenty in the diary in the near future -
:01:24. > :01:31.let's just remind ourselves of some key upcoming dates.
:01:32. > :01:40.There they are. We have the two by-elections on February 23rd. The
:01:41. > :01:44.budget is 8th March. That will be the last spring budget under this
:01:45. > :01:58.Government because it moves to the autumn.
:01:59. > :02:04.That round of French elections narrows the candidates, probably
:02:05. > :02:10.about eight or nine, down to two, the two who come first and second,
:02:11. > :02:17.then go into a play off round on May 7th. That will determine the next
:02:18. > :02:21.President. Steve, listening to Oliver Letwin and to the Labour
:02:22. > :02:24.leader in the House of Lords, is there any way you think that end of
:02:25. > :02:30.March deadline for Mrs May could be in jeopardy? No, I don't. Andrew
:02:31. > :02:35.Smith couldn't have been clearer with you they would do nothing to
:02:36. > :02:41.block not just Article 50 but that timetable, so I would be surprised
:02:42. > :02:45.if they don't make it. Given her, Theresa May's explicit determination
:02:46. > :02:50.to do so, not to do so would have become a problem for her, I think
:02:51. > :02:55.one way or another... No before this vote last week there was a vote nor
:02:56. > :03:00.the deadline, to agree the deadline by all sides. Plain sailing do you
:03:01. > :03:02.think? There is no serious Parliamentary resistance and it
:03:03. > :03:05.would be a personal embarrassment, I think for the Prime Minister to name
:03:06. > :03:12.the the end of March as the deadline and to miss it, unless she has a
:03:13. > :03:16.good excuse. I I reckon it will change the atmosphere of politics
:03:17. > :03:19.for the next two years, as soon as the negotiations begin, people in
:03:20. > :03:23.our profession will hunt for any detail and inside information we can
:03:24. > :03:27.find, thing also be leaked, I think from the European side from time to
:03:28. > :03:32.time, it will dominate the headlines for a solid two years and change
:03:33. > :03:38.politics. Let me just raise a possible, a dark cloud. No bigger
:03:39. > :03:41.than man's hand, that can complicate the timetable, because the Royal
:03:42. > :03:47.Assent on the current timetable has to come round the 13th. I would
:03:48. > :03:51.suggest that the Prime Minister can't trigger that until she does
:03:52. > :03:57.get the Royal Assent. If there is a bit of ping-pong that could delay
:03:58. > :04:00.that by receive day, the last thing the Europeans would want, they have
:04:01. > :04:06.another big meeting at the end of March which is the 60th anniversary
:04:07. > :04:13.of the Treaty of Rome. They don't want Article 50 to land on the
:04:14. > :04:18.table... It would infuriate everybody. My guess is she will have
:04:19. > :04:22.done it by then, this is between the Commons and the Lords, I mean Andrew
:04:23. > :04:28.Smith couldn't have been clearer, that they might send something back
:04:29. > :04:33.but they didn't expect a kind of a long play over this, so. The Liberal
:04:34. > :04:38.Democrats, they are almost an irrelevance in the Commons but not
:04:39. > :04:43.the Lords, they feel differently. Now, we don't know yet what the
:04:44. > :04:46.European Union negotiating position is going to be, we don't know
:04:47. > :04:49.because there are several crucial elections taking place, the Dutch
:04:50. > :04:54.taking place in March and then the one we put up, the French, and, at
:04:55. > :05:01.the moment, the French one is, it seems like it is coming down, to a
:05:02. > :05:09.play-off in the second round between Madame Le Pen who could come first
:05:10. > :05:13.in the first round and this Blairite figure, independent, centre-leftish
:05:14. > :05:17.Mr Macron, he may well get through and that, and the outcome of that
:05:18. > :05:22.will be an important determine napt on our negotiations. -- determinant.
:05:23. > :05:27.You o couldn't have two more different candidate, you have a
:05:28. > :05:31.national a front candidate and on the other hand the closest thing
:05:32. > :05:38.France could have you to a liberal President. With a small l. A
:05:39. > :05:43.reformist liberal President. It would be the most French thing in
:05:44. > :05:50.the world to elect someone who while the rest of the world is elected
:05:51. > :05:56.elitist, to elect someone who is the son of a teacher, who has liberal
:05:57. > :06:03.views, is a member of the French elite. It would be a thing for them
:06:04. > :06:11.to elect a man like that which I why I see them doing it. If it is Le
:06:12. > :06:15.Pen, Brexit becomes a minor sideshow, if it is Le Pen, the
:06:16. > :06:23.future of the European Union is? Danger, regardless of whether we are
:06:24. > :06:26.were in or out. I suggest if it is Mr Macron that presents some
:06:27. > :06:30.problems. He doesn't have his own party. He won't have a majority in
:06:31. > :06:34.the French assembly, he is untried and untested. He wants to do a
:06:35. > :06:42.number of things that will be unpopular which is why a number of
:06:43. > :06:49.people close to Mrs Le Pen tell me that she has her eye on 2022. She
:06:50. > :06:55.thinks lit go to hell in a hand basket under Mr Macron. He hasn't
:06:56. > :07:00.got the experience. What I find fascinating. It is not just all to
:07:01. > :07:04.play for in France, it is the fact what happens in France and Germany,
:07:05. > :07:11.not so much Holland I think but Germany later on in the year, how
:07:12. > :07:24.much it impacts what we are going to get. How much which ex #i78 panting
:07:25. > :07:26.on them. And at the time we are trying to, withdrawing ourself from
:07:27. > :07:30.European politics it is fascinating how much it will affect us. You see
:07:31. > :07:36.what Matthew was talking about earlier in the show, that what we do
:07:37. > :07:39.know, almost for sure, is that the socialist candidate will not get
:07:40. > :07:45.through to the second round. He could come firth but the
:07:46. > :07:48.centre-right candidate. If we were discussing that monthing a we would
:07:49. > :07:53.say it between teen the centre-right and the national fronts. We are to
:07:54. > :07:58.saying that. Matthew good win who spent a time in France isn't sure Le
:07:59. > :08:03.Pen will get into the second round, which is interesting. It is, I mean,
:08:04. > :08:10.it is going to be as important for the future of the European Union, as
:08:11. > :08:13.in retrospect the British 2015 general election was, if Labour had
:08:14. > :08:16.got in there would have been no referendum. That referendum has
:08:17. > :08:22.transformed the European Union because we are leaving and the
:08:23. > :08:28.French election is significant. We will be live from Paris on April
:08:29. > :08:33.23rd on the day France goings to the first round of polls. Tom Watson, he
:08:34. > :08:34.was on The Andrew Marr Show earlier today, was asked about Mr Corbyn,
:08:35. > :08:39.this is what he had to say. We had a damaging second leadership
:08:40. > :08:43.election, so we've got The polls aren't great for us,
:08:44. > :08:47.but I'm determined now we've got the leadership settled for this
:08:48. > :08:49.parliament, that we can focus on developing a very positive clear
:08:50. > :09:05.message to the British people So Julia, I don't know who are you
:09:06. > :09:10.are giggling. I find it untenable that, he is a very good media
:09:11. > :09:14.performer and he comes on and he is sitting there so well, you know,
:09:15. > :09:18.things are bad but don't worry we are looking at what we can do to win
:09:19. > :09:24.2020. The idea that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were sitting in their
:09:25. > :09:28.offices or on TV screens at this time in the electoral cycle thinking
:09:29. > :09:33.well I wonder if we can come up with a policy the British people might
:09:34. > :09:41.like. It is a nonsense, this is Tuesday night book zlufb. I am going
:09:42. > :09:48.to ask you the question I was going to before. I would suggest that he
:09:49. > :09:55.the right. The deputy Labour leader Tom Watson is violent the leadership
:09:56. > :09:59.is settled, with one caveat, unless the Corbynistas themselves to decide
:10:00. > :10:04.to move on Mr Corbyn, if the left of the Labour Party decides then it is
:10:05. > :10:08.not settled. Settled. If that doesn't happen that is That would be
:10:09. > :10:13.the worst situation if you are a Labour moderate. The Corbynistas
:10:14. > :10:19.would be saying the problem is no Corbynism, it is Corbyn himself, if
:10:20. > :10:24.we a younger person leading the process we can win the next general
:10:25. > :10:28.election, which means you have another itration of this, another
:10:29. > :10:36.five year experiment. And that is worst of all. If you are a Labour
:10:37. > :10:41.moderate, what you want is Jeremy Corbyn contest the next general
:10:42. > :10:44.election, possibly loses badly and then a Labour not moderate runs for
:10:45. > :10:49.the leadership saying we have tried your way, the worst would be Corbyn
:10:50. > :10:54.going, and a younger seven version of him trying and the experiment
:10:55. > :10:59.being extended. I see no easy way out of this. That is why he radiated
:11:00. > :11:04.the enthusiasm of someone in a hostage video in that interview.
:11:05. > :11:11.Maybe he has the Stockholm Syndrome now. The Labour moderates have had
:11:12. > :11:14.their day in the sun, two days in the sun and they lost. I suggest
:11:15. > :11:19.they are not going to try for the hat-trick again. Is there any
:11:20. > :11:26.indication that on the more Corbyn wing of the Labour Party, there is
:11:27. > :11:31.now doubts about their man. Yes, just to translate Tom Watson, what
:11:32. > :11:37.he meant was I Tom Watson am not going to get involved in another
:11:38. > :11:43.attempted coup. I tried it and it was a catastrophe. That is question
:11:44. > :11:48.enhe says it is set selled. It is because there is speculation on a
:11:49. > :11:54.daily basis. I disagree, Julia said I think this lot don't care about
:11:55. > :11:58.winning, I think they do. If the current position continue, one of
:11:59. > :12:02.two things will happen. Either Jeremy Corbyn will decide himself
:12:03. > :12:09.will decide he doesn't want to carry on. He half enjoys I it and half
:12:10. > :12:13.hates it. Finds it a strain. If that doesn't happen there will be some
:12:14. > :12:19.people round him who will say, look, this isn't working. There is another
:12:20. > :12:25.three-and-a-half years. There is a long way to go. I can't see it
:12:26. > :12:30.lasting in this way with politics in a state of flux, Tories will be
:12:31. > :12:35.under pressure in the coming two years, to have opinion polls at this
:12:36. > :12:39.level, I think is unsustainable. Final thought from you.? Yes, the
:12:40. > :12:43.idea it St another three-and-a-half years is just madness, but the
:12:44. > :12:49.people we are putting up at replacement for Jeremy Corbyn, and
:12:50. > :12:53.they have been focus grouping them. Most members wouldn't know who most
:12:54. > :12:57.of people were let alone most of the public.
:12:58. > :13:04.Angela rain? They are not overwhelmed with leadership
:13:05. > :13:08.potential at the moment. Very diplomatically put. Neither are the
:13:09. > :13:10.Tories, but they happened to have one at the moment. All right. That
:13:11. > :13:13.is it. Now, there's no Daily
:13:14. > :13:16.or Sunday Politics for the next week But the Daily Politics will be back
:13:17. > :13:20.on Monday 20th February and I'll be back here with the Sunday Politics
:13:21. > :13:24.on the 26th. Remember if it's Sunday,
:13:25. > :13:26.it's the Sunday Politics... Just back from
:13:27. > :14:08.a very long shift at work... The staff are losing -
:14:09. > :14:14.they're just giving in. Panorama goes undercover
:14:15. > :14:20.to reveal the real cost