19/03/2017

:00:34. > :00:37.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:38. > :00:40.She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,

:00:41. > :00:53.After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.

:00:54. > :00:55.With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,

:00:56. > :01:00.Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.

:01:01. > :01:03.NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission

:01:04. > :01:07.impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,

:01:08. > :01:10.unless hospitals are given more cash this year.

:01:11. > :01:14.In the East Midlands: Providers joins me live.

:01:15. > :01:16.The former refugees leaving countries in

:01:17. > :01:18.Europe to settle in Leicester drawn in by its multi-cultural mix.

:01:19. > :01:25.Are we doing enough to help prisoners back into work?

:01:26. > :01:36.All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking

:01:37. > :01:38.to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg

:01:39. > :01:40.from his party's spring conference in York.

:01:41. > :01:45.With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,

:01:46. > :01:47.three of the country's top political commentators:

:01:48. > :01:53.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

:01:54. > :01:55.They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.

:01:56. > :01:58.So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.

:01:59. > :02:03.As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,

:02:04. > :02:07.the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum

:02:08. > :02:11.on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts

:02:12. > :02:14.to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key

:02:15. > :02:19.budget measure just one week after announcing it.

:02:20. > :02:21.Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week

:02:22. > :02:38.Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First

:02:39. > :02:39.Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.

:02:40. > :02:42.She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK

:02:43. > :02:47.By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's

:02:48. > :02:49.future will be decided, not just by me, the

:02:50. > :02:50.Scottish Government, or the

:02:51. > :02:52.SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.

:02:53. > :03:02.Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject

:03:03. > :03:06.amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to

:03:07. > :03:20.The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned

:03:21. > :03:22.attempts to change it and it becomes law.

:03:23. > :03:29.But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.

:03:30. > :03:31.Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.

:03:32. > :03:48.We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the

:03:49. > :03:49.We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling

:03:50. > :04:01.the planned rise in National Insurance for

:04:02. > :04:02.the self-employed announced the budget.

:04:03. > :04:04.It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.

:04:05. > :04:06.The trend towards greater self-employment does create a

:04:07. > :04:09.We will bring forward further proposals

:04:10. > :04:12.but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this

:04:13. > :04:16.It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.

:04:17. > :04:19.By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues

:04:20. > :04:22.fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax

:04:23. > :04:32.Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the

:04:33. > :04:34.Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending

:04:35. > :04:37.But that's not what the Prime Minister

:04:38. > :04:43.Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a

:04:44. > :04:48.We should be working together, not pulling apart.

:04:49. > :04:50.We should be working together to get that

:04:51. > :04:51.right deal for Scotland, that

:04:52. > :04:56.So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and

:04:57. > :05:00.so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.

:05:01. > :05:02.Friday and time for the faithful to gather.

:05:03. > :05:04.SNP activists at their spring conference

:05:05. > :05:14.Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister

:05:15. > :05:18.promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.

:05:19. > :05:21.At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly

:05:22. > :05:27.I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The

:05:28. > :05:29.Evening Standard and, you know, with so many

:05:30. > :05:31.big issues in our world what

:05:32. > :05:36.good analysis, great news journalism.

:05:37. > :05:41.It's a really important time for good journalism that The

:05:42. > :05:43.Evening Standard is going to provide.

:05:44. > :05:50.There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals

:05:51. > :05:55.Under my proposals we keep the Barnett

:05:56. > :05:58.Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the

:05:59. > :06:03.and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.

:06:04. > :06:06.And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the

:06:07. > :06:23.What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,

:06:24. > :06:28.Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign

:06:29. > :06:31.of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the

:06:32. > :06:38.events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with

:06:39. > :06:42.the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy

:06:43. > :06:48.periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and

:06:49. > :06:52.try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.

:06:53. > :06:56.Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or

:06:57. > :07:00.so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily

:07:01. > :07:04.the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel

:07:05. > :07:08.more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential

:07:09. > :07:11.drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your

:07:12. > :07:16.original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic

:07:17. > :07:21.quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory

:07:22. > :07:24.backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school

:07:25. > :07:28.funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will

:07:29. > :07:33.get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.

:07:34. > :07:37.Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister

:07:38. > :07:42.said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime

:07:43. > :07:46.Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done

:07:47. > :07:51.quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in

:07:52. > :07:55.frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,

:07:56. > :07:58.OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has

:07:59. > :08:01.already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with

:08:02. > :08:06.Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle

:08:07. > :08:11.for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality

:08:12. > :08:14.bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same

:08:15. > :08:17.time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge

:08:18. > :08:24.to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and

:08:25. > :08:30.Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it

:08:31. > :08:36.reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is

:08:37. > :08:39.over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is

:08:40. > :08:43.how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is

:08:44. > :08:46.not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a

:08:47. > :08:50.normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more

:08:51. > :08:55.mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible

:08:56. > :08:58.workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to

:08:59. > :09:04.call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she

:09:05. > :09:07.tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a

:09:08. > :09:11.second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the

:09:12. > :09:14.rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this

:09:15. > :09:19.week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to

:09:20. > :09:24.her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She

:09:25. > :09:27.expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for

:09:28. > :09:33.her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows

:09:34. > :09:39.66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off

:09:40. > :09:43.with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second

:09:44. > :09:46.referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined

:09:47. > :09:50.with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her

:09:51. > :09:54.calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,

:09:55. > :09:58.I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your

:09:59. > :10:03.desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a

:10:04. > :10:06.fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak

:10:07. > :10:12.opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most

:10:13. > :10:16.daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I

:10:17. > :10:19.think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an

:10:20. > :10:22.election. I don't think she has thought about how you would

:10:23. > :10:26.manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the

:10:27. > :10:32.energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning

:10:33. > :10:37.the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the

:10:38. > :10:40.small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.

:10:41. > :10:44.Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be

:10:45. > :10:49.difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of

:10:50. > :10:52.going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't

:10:53. > :10:56.and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which

:10:57. > :10:59.is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as

:11:00. > :11:02.commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but

:11:03. > :11:07.they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in

:11:08. > :11:10.unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because

:11:11. > :11:13.she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through

:11:14. > :11:17.Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an

:11:18. > :11:21.early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write

:11:22. > :11:26.a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's

:11:27. > :11:31.box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.

:11:32. > :11:34.The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may

:11:35. > :11:38.replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an

:11:39. > :11:42.election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself

:11:43. > :11:44.you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall

:11:45. > :11:45.see. So if Theresa May did go

:11:46. > :11:48.for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns

:11:49. > :11:59.and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we

:12:00. > :12:01.have just been talking about, executed one of the most

:12:02. > :12:05.embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a

:12:06. > :12:08.torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still

:12:09. > :12:13.so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an

:12:14. > :12:16.early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing

:12:17. > :12:20.ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that

:12:21. > :12:25.we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only

:12:26. > :12:31.challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative

:12:32. > :12:37.for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,

:12:38. > :12:40.would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't

:12:41. > :12:44.want this government to be in power so of course if there is an

:12:45. > :12:47.opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a

:12:48. > :12:53.better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course

:12:54. > :12:57.we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote

:12:58. > :13:02.in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an

:13:03. > :13:06.opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in

:13:07. > :13:09.government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with

:13:10. > :13:13.the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very

:13:14. > :13:17.seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but

:13:18. > :13:21.would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to

:13:22. > :13:24.be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to

:13:25. > :13:28.bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the

:13:29. > :13:33.British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together

:13:34. > :13:37.Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a

:13:38. > :13:41.General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance

:13:42. > :13:46.of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an

:13:47. > :13:49.early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?

:13:50. > :13:53.It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to

:13:54. > :13:57.dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories

:13:58. > :14:01.in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that

:14:02. > :14:03.opportunity to put that case to the British people.

:14:04. > :14:12.Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all

:14:13. > :14:15.but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?

:14:16. > :14:18.How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of

:14:19. > :14:22.money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the

:14:23. > :14:27.Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it

:14:28. > :14:35.inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to

:14:36. > :14:40.build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We

:14:41. > :14:44.have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are

:14:45. > :14:48.taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian

:14:49. > :14:52.Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the

:14:53. > :14:55.Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the

:14:56. > :14:59.support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the

:15:00. > :15:03.electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready

:15:04. > :15:07.for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got

:15:08. > :15:13.your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the

:15:14. > :15:17.shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if

:15:18. > :15:20.there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these

:15:21. > :15:26.things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its

:15:27. > :15:30.annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates

:15:31. > :15:34.policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last

:15:35. > :15:37.Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a

:15:38. > :15:43.fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much

:15:44. > :15:47.extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going

:15:48. > :15:50.to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.

:15:51. > :15:56.I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We

:15:57. > :16:01.have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out

:16:02. > :16:04.Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there

:16:05. > :16:08.hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war

:16:09. > :16:14.footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,

:16:15. > :16:19.can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under

:16:20. > :16:25.a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.

:16:26. > :16:28.And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an

:16:29. > :16:33.election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th

:16:34. > :16:39.of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't

:16:40. > :16:43.having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy

:16:44. > :16:47.development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think

:16:48. > :16:51.you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll

:16:52. > :16:57.ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the

:16:58. > :17:00.Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in

:17:01. > :17:05.safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long

:17:06. > :17:09.does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the

:17:10. > :17:13.Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour

:17:14. > :17:17.Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party

:17:18. > :17:24.merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in

:17:25. > :17:29.case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be

:17:30. > :17:33.talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation

:17:34. > :17:37.about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually

:17:38. > :17:41.for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting

:17:42. > :17:44.with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the

:17:45. > :17:51.prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,

:17:52. > :17:55.given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its

:17:56. > :17:58.mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be

:17:59. > :18:04.about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17

:18:05. > :18:08.behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as

:18:09. > :18:12.an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you

:18:13. > :18:17.still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?

:18:18. > :18:25.These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was

:18:26. > :18:29.settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.

:18:30. > :18:34.Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it

:18:35. > :18:39.is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it

:18:40. > :18:44.is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will

:18:45. > :18:48.you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future

:18:49. > :18:57.looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,

:18:58. > :19:00.where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit

:19:01. > :19:03.cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make

:19:04. > :19:05.sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to

:19:06. > :19:08.fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to

:19:09. > :19:16.make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour

:19:17. > :19:21.returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.

:19:22. > :19:23.And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring

:19:24. > :19:25.conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.

:19:26. > :19:34.Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps

:19:35. > :19:40.Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In

:19:41. > :19:48.what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not

:19:49. > :19:53.saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim

:19:54. > :19:57.Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware

:19:58. > :20:04.what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was

:20:05. > :20:10.arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound

:20:11. > :20:15.supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as

:20:16. > :20:20.Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so

:20:21. > :20:24.ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,

:20:25. > :20:29.Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more

:20:30. > :20:32.isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach

:20:33. > :20:38.that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans

:20:39. > :20:47.to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,

:20:48. > :20:52.Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,

:20:53. > :20:56.nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In

:20:57. > :21:03.what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has

:21:04. > :21:08.interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote

:21:09. > :21:12.you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over

:21:13. > :21:17.the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have

:21:18. > :21:21.to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was

:21:22. > :21:26.in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not

:21:27. > :21:32.right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we

:21:33. > :21:38.have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald

:21:39. > :21:43.Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different

:21:44. > :21:50.view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not

:21:51. > :21:55.antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not

:21:56. > :21:58.aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the

:21:59. > :22:05.British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by

:22:06. > :22:13.choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing

:22:14. > :22:17.so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self

:22:18. > :22:20.harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the

:22:21. > :22:26.threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so

:22:27. > :22:30.ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view

:22:31. > :22:39.speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not

:22:40. > :22:44.challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs

:22:45. > :22:49.that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring

:22:50. > :22:54.conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long

:22:55. > :22:58.time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a

:22:59. > :23:04.realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards

:23:05. > :23:10.that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a

:23:11. > :23:14.realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want

:23:15. > :23:20.that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the

:23:21. > :23:24.recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People

:23:25. > :23:28.often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election

:23:29. > :23:33.we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we

:23:34. > :23:41.have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in

:23:42. > :23:48.Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way

:23:49. > :23:56.seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted

:23:57. > :24:00.for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling

:24:01. > :24:04.increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party

:24:05. > :24:07.because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable

:24:08. > :24:14.from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk

:24:15. > :24:18.on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite

:24:19. > :24:22.them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across

:24:23. > :24:27.parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster

:24:28. > :24:31.village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,

:24:32. > :24:35.inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people

:24:36. > :24:46.on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the

:24:47. > :24:51.ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence

:24:52. > :24:56.to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be

:24:57. > :25:04.thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we

:25:05. > :25:08.are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the

:25:09. > :25:13.referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated

:25:14. > :25:17.ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something

:25:18. > :25:21.unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can

:25:22. > :25:32.guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the

:25:33. > :25:38.British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work

:25:39. > :25:42.out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she

:25:43. > :25:48.will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new

:25:49. > :25:53.trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of

:25:54. > :25:57.that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there

:25:58. > :26:02.will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use

:26:03. > :26:09.this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling

:26:10. > :26:13.back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or

:26:14. > :26:18.thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were

:26:19. > :26:24.promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this

:26:25. > :26:28.glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the

:26:29. > :26:32.world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of

:26:33. > :26:36.years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to

:26:37. > :26:41.take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of

:26:42. > :26:49.quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always

:26:50. > :26:55.welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is

:26:56. > :26:57.certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you

:26:58. > :27:04.spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or

:27:05. > :27:11.spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper

:27:12. > :27:19.editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's

:27:20. > :27:25.feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law

:27:26. > :27:29.against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will

:27:30. > :27:36.again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also

:27:37. > :27:40.wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in

:27:41. > :27:46.the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his

:27:47. > :27:51.self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on

:27:52. > :27:55.a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you

:27:56. > :27:59.will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.

:28:00. > :28:02.Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been

:28:03. > :28:04.warning the health service needs more money to help it meet

:28:05. > :28:07.But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered

:28:08. > :28:09.no immediate relief, and today the head of

:28:10. > :28:11.the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds

:28:12. > :28:14.of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency

:28:15. > :28:16.care and planned operations, unless the Government

:28:17. > :28:23.Warnings over funding are not exactly new.

:28:24. > :28:26.Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,

:28:27. > :28:31.published his plan for the future of the health service.

:28:32. > :28:34.In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England

:28:35. > :28:37.would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.

:28:38. > :28:40.To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money

:28:41. > :28:43.from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,

:28:44. > :28:46.and that the health service could account for the rest by making

:28:47. > :28:53.The Government says it's given the health service more than what it

:28:54. > :28:56.asked for, and that NHS in England will have received

:28:57. > :29:01.That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair

:29:02. > :29:04.of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more

:29:05. > :29:07.like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget

:29:08. > :29:13.have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.

:29:14. > :29:16.Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished

:29:17. > :29:18.the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts

:29:19. > :29:20.from the Government, the NHS is likely to record

:29:21. > :29:26.Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A

:29:27. > :29:28.departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being

:29:29. > :29:36.This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care

:29:37. > :29:40.but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn

:29:41. > :29:42.that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked

:29:43. > :29:48.And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS

:29:49. > :29:53.Providers in England, Chris Hopson.

:29:54. > :30:00.Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra

:30:01. > :30:05.money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part

:30:06. > :30:09.of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a

:30:10. > :30:14.bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so

:30:15. > :30:17.on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18

:30:18. > :30:21.billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising

:30:22. > :30:25.more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that

:30:26. > :30:29.is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS

:30:30. > :30:34.knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are

:30:35. > :30:40.somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.

:30:41. > :30:49.Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22

:30:50. > :30:53.billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year

:30:54. > :30:59.and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25

:31:00. > :31:04.billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the

:31:05. > :31:08.2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to

:31:09. > :31:13.which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period

:31:14. > :31:16.and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen

:31:17. > :31:22.before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come

:31:23. > :31:26.onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some

:31:27. > :31:30.extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument

:31:31. > :31:36.about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this

:31:37. > :31:39.extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?

:31:40. > :31:45.Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward

:31:46. > :31:48.view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the

:31:49. > :31:51.centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms

:31:52. > :31:55.length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was

:31:56. > :32:00.consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that

:32:01. > :32:05.the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS

:32:06. > :32:09.where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every

:32:10. > :32:12.year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able

:32:13. > :32:19.to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding

:32:20. > :32:23.increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release

:32:24. > :32:28.we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would

:32:29. > :32:34.not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in

:32:35. > :32:37.other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts

:32:38. > :32:42.Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.

:32:43. > :32:49.Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.

:32:50. > :32:52.How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we

:32:53. > :32:56.estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you

:32:57. > :33:01.clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour

:33:02. > :33:05.A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and

:33:06. > :33:10.operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900

:33:11. > :33:15.million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you

:33:16. > :33:19.would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of

:33:20. > :33:23.those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion

:33:24. > :33:28.on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5

:33:29. > :33:31.billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is

:33:32. > :33:36.important we should make an important distinction about the NHS

:33:37. > :33:40.versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour

:33:41. > :33:44.government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return

:33:45. > :33:48.for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,

:33:49. > :33:53.the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery

:33:54. > :33:57.we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would

:33:58. > :34:00.want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for

:34:01. > :34:05.it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest

:34:06. > :34:10.financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going

:34:11. > :34:15.up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand

:34:16. > :34:20.go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I

:34:21. > :34:23.think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going

:34:24. > :34:27.to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I

:34:28. > :34:32.think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS

:34:33. > :34:36.as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have

:34:37. > :34:41.got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36

:34:42. > :34:46.office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to

:34:47. > :34:51.1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know

:34:52. > :34:56.in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the

:34:57. > :34:59.last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement

:35:00. > :35:06.gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25

:35:07. > :35:10.billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But

:35:11. > :35:13.having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where

:35:14. > :35:19.there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it

:35:20. > :35:23.for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its

:35:24. > :35:27.contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as

:35:28. > :35:32.efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for

:35:33. > :35:35.you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise

:35:36. > :35:40.those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would

:35:41. > :35:43.go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a

:35:44. > :35:47.deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the

:35:48. > :35:52.moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release

:35:53. > :36:04.land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts

:36:05. > :36:05.which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous

:36:06. > :36:08.organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.

:36:09. > :36:08.Have you raised that with the government?

:36:09. > :36:20.Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard

:36:21. > :36:25.somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big

:36:26. > :36:29.salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for

:36:30. > :36:33.the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more

:36:34. > :36:36.money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being

:36:37. > :36:41.properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And

:36:42. > :36:49.yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in

:36:50. > :36:51.a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I

:36:52. > :36:54.have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight

:36:55. > :36:57.in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,

:36:58. > :37:00.mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most

:37:01. > :37:05.complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to

:37:06. > :37:08.be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we

:37:09. > :37:12.should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid

:37:13. > :37:17.are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion

:37:18. > :37:25.a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There

:37:26. > :37:28.was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the

:37:29. > :37:32.problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need

:37:33. > :37:35.and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having

:37:36. > :37:40.to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem

:37:41. > :37:46.and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those

:37:47. > :37:50.amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas

:37:51. > :37:55.is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you

:37:56. > :37:58.could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,

:37:59. > :38:04.what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government

:38:05. > :38:08.has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing

:38:09. > :38:12.funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can

:38:13. > :38:18.I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the

:38:19. > :38:23.first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we

:38:24. > :38:28.can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work

:38:29. > :38:32.in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very

:38:33. > :38:35.important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the

:38:36. > :38:40.financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being

:38:41. > :38:43.asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of

:38:44. > :38:45.time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.

:38:46. > :38:47.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:48. > :38:49.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:50. > :39:01.In the East Midlands, the immigrant community which has

:39:02. > :39:03.fled the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark for

:39:04. > :39:08.More than 15,000 Somalis live in Leicester and many of them moved

:39:09. > :39:10.from mainland Europe, drawn in by the city's

:39:11. > :39:15.Leicester is a welcoming city and it's a city that welcomes people

:39:16. > :39:23.no matter their background, religion, race or colour.

:39:24. > :39:26.A chance of a new life, but are we doing enough to help

:39:27. > :39:36.Being an ex-offender, there is not many people that

:39:37. > :39:38.want to give you a chance and that is the problem

:39:39. > :39:41.with a lot of ex-offenders is the fact that they're not given

:39:42. > :39:45.a chance and they don't see no other way out of it so they just revert

:39:46. > :39:48.Hello. I'm Marie Ashby.

:39:49. > :39:50.My guests are Amanda Solloway, Conservative MP for Derby North

:39:51. > :39:52.and Willy Bach, Labour peer and the Police and Crime

:39:53. > :39:57.Let's get your reaction to the news that two police

:39:58. > :39:58.forces Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire have passed

:39:59. > :40:01.their files on the Conservative election expenses scandal

:40:02. > :40:09.Amanda, this comes as the Conservatives have been fined

:40:10. > :40:11.?70,000 by the Electoral Commission for not reporting expenses properly.

:40:12. > :40:18.This is getting serious, isn't it? Are you worried?

:40:19. > :40:21.I wasn't affected and we have complied with

:40:22. > :40:25.the commission on this, given as much information as we can,

:40:26. > :40:33.supported the investigation and we will be paying the fine on time.

:40:34. > :40:37.The Electoral Commission had to get a court order to get that

:40:38. > :40:44.I don't know all the details because I haven't been involved in it.

:40:45. > :40:51.As far as I'm concerned, we have complied in every way on it.

:40:52. > :40:55.Willy Bach, many of the problems centre around the use

:40:56. > :40:57.of a battlebus to visit different seats during the election.

:40:58. > :41:00.All parties use tactics like that, don't they?

:41:01. > :41:06.Are you sure Labour have recorded their expenses correctly too?

:41:07. > :41:09.Well, one can never be sure about anything,

:41:10. > :41:16.but it does look on this occasion that the Conservatives

:41:17. > :41:19.misused that battlebus, claiming it was for national

:41:20. > :41:22.expenses when there was definitely a local element.

:41:23. > :41:24.But let's see what the Crown Prosecution Service decide to do.

:41:25. > :41:26.It is clearly a serious situation for everyone,

:41:27. > :41:33.In your role as PCC, I'm interested to know how hard

:41:34. > :41:36.is it for a police force to deal with something as sensitive

:41:37. > :41:43.Well, I'm sure it is very hard, I say I'm sure because we haven't

:41:44. > :41:47.got any constituencies in our area where the police

:41:48. > :41:52.are being asked to make inquiries, but it is very sensitive.

:41:53. > :41:55.It's a very difficult field, but police forces around

:41:56. > :41:58.this country are modern enough and know how to deal with situations

:41:59. > :42:00.like this and they have the Crown Prosecution Service

:42:01. > :42:07.who will decide whether prosecutions should be brought or not.

:42:08. > :42:11.One East Midlands city is gaining an international reputation

:42:12. > :42:16.Refugees from around the world are settling in Leicester.

:42:17. > :42:19.Many of them after spending years in countries like the Netherlands,

:42:20. > :42:25.They chose move on because, despite their reputation

:42:26. > :42:27.as liberal countries, they decided that Leicester's

:42:28. > :42:29.multi-cultural society offered a more tolerant attitude

:42:30. > :42:32.Nisha Chopra has been hearing the story of people

:42:33. > :42:46.A traditional song and early lessons in a different culture.

:42:47. > :42:51.Children at the Somali Development Centre in Leicester are carrying

:42:52. > :42:54.the hopes of their parents, people who came here to make

:42:55. > :42:58.They arrived here after first settling in countries

:42:59. > :43:02.like the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden.

:43:03. > :43:10.It's a city that welcomes people no matter their backgrounds,

:43:11. > :43:14.Jawahir fled Somalia's civil war and moved to Holland.

:43:15. > :43:16.University educated, she retrained as a social worker, but worried

:43:17. > :43:19.that her children wouldn't be able to move on in Dutch society.

:43:20. > :43:22.She came to Leicester for a holiday after hearing from a friend

:43:23. > :43:30.I visited colleges, schools, universities and I was amazed.

:43:31. > :43:35.One primary school I visited had all different flags

:43:36. > :43:37.and all the different languages saying welcome.

:43:38. > :43:52.I thought oh my god, they welcome people in their own language.

:43:53. > :43:55.It's that sense of being able to live their own culture,

:43:56. > :43:58.but also to move on in society, education and careers that's brought

:43:59. > :44:06.It's one of the UK's most multi-cultural cities.

:44:07. > :44:08.The Nomad Cafe in St Matthew's Estate lives up to its name.

:44:09. > :44:12.So are many of the customers and many have come via Holland,

:44:13. > :44:15.Sweden and Denmark and have ended up in Leicester

:44:16. > :44:22.because they say the opportunities are better to build a future.

:44:23. > :44:24.It's a very open place and a multi-cultural city.

:44:25. > :44:34.You have a lot of opportunities to get work.

:44:35. > :44:40.A friend of mine invited me to come to Leicester and I looked

:44:41. > :44:42.at Leicester and I meet some people and I find

:44:43. > :44:45.there is a great difference from where I came from and here

:44:46. > :44:47.in terms of integration and job opportunities

:44:48. > :45:01.The cafe's owner has seen another opportunity -

:45:02. > :45:03.the chance to combine the city's multi-culturalism with a love

:45:04. > :45:09.of ethnic foods to build a business empire in his adopted country.

:45:10. > :45:16.I use my culture food for mixing Asian and Italian-style

:45:17. > :45:19.and then becoming unique for everyone.

:45:20. > :45:22.Even Leicester football players come in and they like the food.

:45:23. > :45:32.So I want a Nomad Cafe in Leicester, but I want a Nomad Cafe

:45:33. > :45:35.in in the whole world and every area like Costa Coffee and Starbucks.

:45:36. > :45:39.It's that dream of moving on and up which has led the Somali community

:45:40. > :45:41.to flee their war-torn homeland in search of a place

:45:42. > :45:44.to live, where they can preserve their own culture,

:45:45. > :45:51.whilst building a future for themselves and for their children.

:45:52. > :45:54.Willy Bach, it does seem extraordinary that former refugees

:45:55. > :45:56.who had settled in countries like Holland would then want to move

:45:57. > :46:00.to places like Leicester - countries supposedly tolerant

:46:01. > :46:07.Well, those countries are tolerant and nothing against them,

:46:08. > :46:10.but I'm very proud of our country and I'm very proud

:46:11. > :46:13.of Leicester because it's a place people want to come

:46:14. > :46:16.to and to live a good life and to be integrated, but to keep

:46:17. > :46:25.I'm lucky to know a lot of Somalis in Leicester.

:46:26. > :46:27.I've worked closely with the community and your film

:46:28. > :46:36.I've been to the Development Centre and

:46:37. > :46:39.They're really interested in how the city is functioning

:46:40. > :46:42.and their part in it and I'm delighted to say

:46:43. > :46:45.the first Somali police officer is in the next cohort to start

:46:46. > :46:47.being a policeman in Leicester and two female Somalis have passed

:46:48. > :46:51.all the tests necessary so that's really exciting.

:46:52. > :46:54.That's a positive story, but is there a danger if people

:46:55. > :46:56.keep their own culture that they don't always

:46:57. > :47:03.That's an accusation that's levelled at that

:47:04. > :47:07.community in the past, but they deny?

:47:08. > :47:10.It has been levelled at many communities over many years

:47:11. > :47:12.and sometimes there is some truth in it.

:47:13. > :47:16.Everything takes time. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter.

:47:17. > :47:18.My experience is that the Somali community

:47:19. > :47:22.in Leicester is integrating well, but it's very indetermined

:47:23. > :47:27.It's wonderful food by the way. I have been to that cafe.

:47:28. > :47:33.It is superb. But I think it's working well.

:47:34. > :47:35.I'm not saying there are no difficulties for young

:47:36. > :47:40.Somalis, but this is a question of being patient on both sides.

:47:41. > :47:43.OK, Amanda, other cafes available as well!

:47:44. > :47:46.But more immigration is hardly going to help

:47:47. > :47:48.the Government keep get its targets for immigration down?

:47:49. > :47:56.More people coming in isn't going to help you, as a Government,

:47:57. > :47:58.to reach your targets on immigration?

:47:59. > :48:03.I agree that it is part of our cultural richness

:48:04. > :48:06.that we have all these different communities and in Derby,

:48:07. > :48:10.we have a vast array of different communities and there is one great

:48:11. > :48:13.place called Big Communities which is about integrating people

:48:14. > :48:24.On Friday at my surgery, I saw people who are

:48:25. > :48:30.asylum and it is great we have this multi-cultural base.

:48:31. > :48:32.You're talking about an area you know well, Willy knows

:48:33. > :48:36.Is there a problem for integration with more immigration in the city?

:48:37. > :48:39.We need to celebrate different cultures and different communities.

:48:40. > :48:41.I think that's done really well and it's about enhancing

:48:42. > :48:49.One place where we see it working effectively is in education,

:48:50. > :48:52.but that can be a challenge and language can be a barrier.

:48:53. > :48:55.In education, we see some schools where there is a vast array

:48:56. > :48:59.of different languages that need to be taught.

:49:00. > :49:06.Not everyone is going to welcome more people coming here, Willy.

:49:07. > :49:09.Especially if they're refugees who had already had

:49:10. > :49:11.safe haven in another country before they came here?

:49:12. > :49:18.But in fact some are refugees from Somalia.

:49:19. > :49:20.It has been a war-torn country for many years now,

:49:21. > :49:30.but part of freedom should be if possible for people to come

:49:31. > :49:33.and live where they want to, provided they're not causing trouble

:49:34. > :49:36.for people who are here already and the Somalis who have come

:49:37. > :49:37.from Western Europe, Denmark and Holland

:49:38. > :49:40.Not only is their use of language very good,

:49:41. > :49:43.a lot of them speak English too because they've learnt that

:49:44. > :49:45.in those countries, but they understand what it's

:49:46. > :49:52.That language barrier or lack of it is key,

:49:53. > :49:59.isn't it, to integration and better integration?

:50:00. > :50:02.Absolutely. It is a challenging for education.

:50:03. > :50:11.Gosh, it's so difficult to learn a different language,

:50:12. > :50:15.but young children who are in this country are learning English

:50:16. > :50:18.incredibly well and when I'm talking Urdu to my constituents,

:50:19. > :50:26.they speak English better than I do Urdu!

:50:27. > :50:31.From one community looking to build a new life to another,

:50:32. > :50:34.but are we doing enough to help ex-offenders get into work?

:50:35. > :50:36.One charity which deals with hundreds of former

:50:37. > :50:38.prisoners wants to expand across the East Midlands, but is

:50:39. > :50:42.Here is our political reporter, Tim Parker.

:50:43. > :50:45.It might look like routine work, but for Anthony March this job has

:50:46. > :50:56.There are not many people that want to give you a chance.

:50:57. > :51:00.I think that is the problem with a lot of ex-offenders -

:51:01. > :51:02.they are not given that chance and they don't see a

:51:03. > :51:06.way out of it so they just revert back to how they were before.

:51:07. > :51:09.I was lucky to get that opportunity and the way I put

:51:10. > :51:12.This bathroom supplies company in Leicester has joined forces

:51:13. > :51:15.with Leicestershire Cares, a charity getting people who come

:51:16. > :51:23.It's eight times harder for an ex-offender to find

:51:24. > :51:28.employment than somebody who hasn't got a criminal record.

:51:29. > :51:34.Ex-offenders realise they've got to impress upon employers

:51:35. > :51:37.and put in 100% and they do that and they appreciate that

:51:38. > :51:39.employers give them that opportunity.

:51:40. > :51:44.And that's why they are such good workers.

:51:45. > :51:47.Leicestershire Cares has received ?40,000 from the Police and Crime

:51:48. > :51:48.Commissioner for Leicester and Leicestershire and it is

:51:49. > :51:50.benefiting, not only individuals who have come out of prison,

:51:51. > :51:58.From a recruitment point of view, we found some excellent members

:51:59. > :52:04.That's never an easy task from the point of view the benefits

:52:05. > :52:08.it has brought to the teams that have worked with the placement

:52:09. > :52:14.students, they have undertaken mentoring.

:52:15. > :52:16.They found new colleagues and they've learnt new skills.

:52:17. > :52:18.It is a holistic experience for the company and the employees

:52:19. > :52:22.We're extremely proud of the work that we do on this project.

:52:23. > :52:24.The Wire Project in Leicester is delivering

:52:25. > :52:26.permanent jobs to people, but can't expand without

:52:27. > :52:30.It could be rolled out anywhere in the country.

:52:31. > :52:33.We were commissioned to do a pilot two years ago in Derbyshire

:52:34. > :52:36.and Nottingham and that worked very well and that included doing

:52:37. > :52:43.employer mock interviews in prisons as well as a small number

:52:44. > :52:46.of placements to see if it works and clearly,

:52:47. > :52:49.it does work and it would a very cost effective means

:52:50. > :52:54.For Anthony, it has been a life changing experience.

:52:55. > :53:02.I couldn't wish for better work colleagues, seriously.

:53:03. > :53:09.The Leicestershire Police and Crime Commissioner

:53:10. > :53:12.has backed the project for the next two years to help more

:53:13. > :53:19.Willy Bach, you put money into that Leicestershire Cares project.

:53:20. > :53:22.But is that really the right use of money, money that's meant

:53:23. > :53:26.It's meant to be used and I'm the Police and Crime Commissioner

:53:27. > :53:31.My police and crime plan - that I'm launching

:53:32. > :53:36.this week - is going to concentrate on prevention.

:53:37. > :53:39.We need to prevent people from committing crime as opposed

:53:40. > :53:42.to having to react to it which the police have to do

:53:43. > :53:45.too often one of the real problems is for ex-offenders.

:53:46. > :53:48.Instead of being punished and deciding well, they won't carry

:53:49. > :53:58.Sometimes people who have been inside are the quickest to commit

:53:59. > :54:04.offences again and this is the system that Leicestershire

:54:05. > :54:07.Care uses and it seems brilliant because what it does.

:54:08. > :54:10.Care uses and it seems brilliant because what it does,

:54:11. > :54:12.it works in the real world with real employers...

:54:13. > :54:17.Two weeks placement first and if the placement

:54:18. > :54:21.works and then a certificate and then a chance of a real job

:54:22. > :54:23.either with the firm you've done the placement

:54:24. > :54:27.It sounds really positive from we have seen and from

:54:28. > :54:34.Amanda, a report last December by the Work and Pensions

:54:35. > :54:36.Select Committee said that former prisoners basically just drop off

:54:37. > :54:41.The committee said many come out with a ?46 resettlement, have

:54:42. > :54:44.to wait weeks for their benefits to come through and don't really

:54:45. > :54:46.get any meaningful help in those early stages.

:54:47. > :54:53.It's a pretty poor picture, isn't it?

:54:54. > :54:57.Well, I think, as you know on Monday we've got the Police and Crime Bill

:54:58. > :54:59.going through Parliament and I agree completely.

:55:00. > :55:02.I think that projects like this are essential and I have been

:55:03. > :55:05.going into a lot of prisons recently as part of my role on the repertoire

:55:06. > :55:08.for joint committee for Human Rights and the challenges that's around,

:55:09. > :55:10.we have lots of challenges at various stages.

:55:11. > :55:13.One is in education, the first place, but it is around

:55:14. > :55:15.when you're in prison, it's around education.

:55:16. > :55:18.Equipping you for work outside and then you have the other

:55:19. > :55:25.challenge of preventing crime happening again and you can,

:55:26. > :55:27.and prison for some people can even are something

:55:28. > :55:31.that they become institutionalised and it is about breaking that cycle.

:55:32. > :55:33.But is your Government actually doing enough on that?

:55:34. > :55:36.We know that nearly half of adult prisoners are back

:55:37. > :55:41.I think there is always more to do and one of the things I would be

:55:42. > :55:50.This is why projects like this is so good.

:55:51. > :55:52.It's around getting ex-offenders into some kind of employment,

:55:53. > :55:54.giving them some skills and I think even apprenticeships

:55:55. > :56:01.Looking at skills and convincing employers, as we saw on the film,

:56:02. > :56:03.these people actually can become incredibly good

:56:04. > :56:09.But some people would say there would be plenty

:56:10. > :56:11.of people who haven't got jobs who would love this support

:56:12. > :56:14.and help spending on them and they haven't broken any laws,

:56:15. > :56:19.they haven't offended and they're out of work?

:56:20. > :56:22.That's true and we have to look after them too and I'm not sure

:56:23. > :56:28.In fact, I'm sure we're not under present arrangements but I do think

:56:29. > :56:31.that if we want to live in a peaceful society,

:56:32. > :56:33.one where crime isn't on the up, it is time

:56:34. > :56:39.for society to look carefully at what we do with ex-prisoners.

:56:40. > :56:42.Do you think the Government is tackling this problem?

:56:43. > :56:45.It does say it has got a big re-launch from April.

:56:46. > :56:53.It's putting in ?100 million as we know for more than 200 prison

:56:54. > :56:55.officers and planning, it says the biggest

:56:56. > :56:57.overhaul in our prison system in a generation?

:56:58. > :57:00.The prison system is in some kind of crisis at the moment.

:57:01. > :57:03.I hope and I think the Government accepts that and work is going on.

:57:04. > :57:06.But there is a huge amount that needs to be done,

:57:07. > :57:09.but I think we ought to start again and this applies to all political

:57:10. > :57:11.parties to consider whether we don't send too many people,

:57:12. > :57:18.The figures came out this week that suggest in Western Europe,

:57:19. > :57:22.it's in Britain that most people, per population, are sent to prison.

:57:23. > :57:24.We have to look at rehabilitation again.

:57:25. > :57:29.I hope the Government is doing it. My party is certainly doing it.

:57:30. > :57:31.We saw in our film there Amanda, how Anthony felt

:57:32. > :57:38.It's very positive for him and we hear that ex-offenders make hard

:57:39. > :57:42.They are very willing to work, but it's actually eight

:57:43. > :57:45.times harder for ex-offenders to find work and it is hard

:57:46. > :57:48.to convince employers to take them on so what will your Government be

:57:49. > :57:50.doing to address that because that's really at the crux

:57:51. > :57:53.It is. There is two challenges.

:57:54. > :57:59.One is within the prison system is trying to equip people

:58:00. > :58:03.for when they leave prison and one of the things I heard the other day

:58:04. > :58:06.was around prisoners not knowing where they were going to be living

:58:07. > :58:11.and I think we need to be addressing issues like that.

:58:12. > :58:14.We need to be managing expectations on leaving prisons and then

:58:15. > :58:19.One of the things that possibly we could do is maybe having a body

:58:20. > :58:21.that supports a bit like the one you've got in Leicestershire

:58:22. > :58:23.where it supports people returning into the workplace,

:58:24. > :58:25.convincing people to take them into employment and then

:58:26. > :58:27.hopefully finding employment, moving on from that.

:58:28. > :58:32.OK, it is time for a round-up of some of the other political stories

:58:33. > :58:37.Here is our political editor Tony Row with 60 seconds.

:58:38. > :58:42.Toyota is investing ?240 million to upgrade its factory in Derbyshire

:58:43. > :58:51.The company says it is doing all it can to make

:58:52. > :58:54.But it has warned that tariff-free access to

:58:55. > :59:04.the European Union is vital for the factory's future success.

:59:05. > :59:06.Leicestershire is one of more of a dozen

:59:07. > :59:09.to the Prime Minister over changes to school funding.

:59:10. > :59:12.The council say they are alarmed by the plans and that they won't

:59:13. > :59:15.address the historical funding gap they were brought in to solve.

:59:16. > :59:17.The consultation on the plans ends this week.

:59:18. > :59:19.Derby City Council has offered ?2 million to resolve a long running

:59:20. > :59:22.dispute with teaching assistants over changes to pay,

:59:23. > :59:24.but the union Unison has warned there could be more strikes.

:59:25. > :59:29.Talks are still continuing between the two sides.

:59:30. > :59:31.Derbyshire's Derwent Valley is getting more than ?1 million

:59:32. > :59:35.The money will be available to spend on projects to boost tourism

:59:36. > :59:41.and improve the quality of life in the area.

:59:42. > :59:45.That Toyota announcement on paper certainly looks

:59:46. > :59:47.like good news Amanda, but it does come with

:59:48. > :59:57.The company is stil warning that the plant

:59:58. > :59:59.will struggle to stay competitive unless the UK gets that

:00:00. > :00:04.Let's not take away from the fact this is a brilliant thing to happen,

:00:05. > :00:06.not just to Derby and Derbyshire, but to the Midlands

:00:07. > :00:13.I think it demonstrates as you know, I was a Remainer,

:00:14. > :00:16.but it demonstrates there is an opportunity for negotiation

:00:17. > :00:18.and I think when you're saying around the tariffs there will be

:00:19. > :00:21.opportunity for negotiation whenever they take place with different

:00:22. > :00:23.companies and this is a great example of a negotiation that's

:00:24. > :00:25.working for the people of Derbyshire.

:00:26. > :00:27.Do you think the deal will be done though?

:00:28. > :00:29.Absolutely. I think it's going to be great.

:00:30. > :00:33.I have no doubt whatsoever that the deal will be done.

:00:34. > :00:36.But do you think Toyota will say that's enough to stay

:00:37. > :00:40.Yes, I'm convinced that we will be seeing Toyota.

:00:41. > :00:46.I think that Toyota will be staying here, yes.

:00:47. > :00:51.Willy, the Government is giving Toyota ?21 million towards training

:00:52. > :00:55.Is a sign, isn't it that the Government is trying

:00:56. > :00:58.to persuade companies like Toyota who we need in this country to stay?

:00:59. > :01:06.It is good news for everyone, but I have to say this...

:01:07. > :01:10.My concern is that the Government claims to have an industrial policy

:01:11. > :01:13.and that's good if it has got one, but is an industrial policy just

:01:14. > :01:16.the Government negotiating with one big company after another

:01:17. > :01:19.in a slightly desperate attempt to keep them in this country?

:01:20. > :01:27.I think Brexit was a huge mistake. That's my own personal view.

:01:28. > :01:30.I think it would be unfortunate if Government has to keep

:01:31. > :01:31.negotiating with each individual company just to try

:01:32. > :01:39.I was just thinking when you said about industrial policy,

:01:40. > :01:42.we've got an industrial strategy as you know that's coming out,

:01:43. > :01:45.it's going to strengthen the way that we go forward and I have every

:01:46. > :01:47.confidence the economy is going to grow.

:01:48. > :01:50.That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.

:01:51. > :01:52.Thank you to Amanda Solloway and Willy Bach.

:01:53. > :01:54.Chris Leslie and Emma McClarkin will be here next week.

:01:55. > :02:00.you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back to you.

:02:01. > :02:03.So, can George Osborne stay on as a member of Parliament

:02:04. > :02:07.Will Conservative backbenchers force a Government re-think

:02:08. > :02:11.And is Theresa May about to cap gas and electricity prices?

:02:12. > :02:21.Whose idea was that first of all? They are all questions for the Week

:02:22. > :02:30.Ahead to. Let's start with the story that is

:02:31. > :02:34.too much fun to miss, on Friday it was announced the former Chancellor

:02:35. > :02:39.would be the new editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper, a

:02:40. > :02:42.position he will take up in mid-May on a salary of ?200,000 for four

:02:43. > :02:46.days a week. But Mr Osborne has said he will not

:02:47. > :02:50.be stepping down as MP for Tatton in Cheshire,

:02:51. > :02:52.a job he's held since 2001, Alongside these duties,

:02:53. > :02:55.he's also chairman of While being committed to one day

:02:56. > :03:01.a week at Black Rock, an American asset management firm -

:03:02. > :03:04.a part-time role that earns him Then he's polishing his academic

:03:05. > :03:09.credentials, as a fellow at the McCain Institute,

:03:10. > :03:11.an American thinktank, And finally as a member

:03:12. > :03:19.of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, he also earns his keep

:03:20. > :03:25.as an after-dinner speaker, banking around ?750,000

:03:26. > :03:37.since last summer. So there you go. Nice little earners

:03:38. > :03:41.if you can get them. The problem, though, is he has put second jobs on

:03:42. > :03:44.the agenda and lots of his fellow MPs are not happy because they have

:03:45. > :03:50.got second jobs but not making that kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs

:03:51. > :03:54.on both sides actually are unhappy about it exactly for those reasons.

:03:55. > :03:59.I find it a very interesting appointment. We have got these

:04:00. > :04:03.people on the centre and centre right of politics who have been used

:04:04. > :04:08.to power since 1997, they have been on the airwaves today, Tony Blair,

:04:09. > :04:12.Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they are all seeking other platforms now

:04:13. > :04:17.because power has moved elsewhere. So Tony Blair is setting up this new

:04:18. > :04:21.foundation, Nick Clegg refused to condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair

:04:22. > :04:27.praised the appointment. They are all searching for new platforms.

:04:28. > :04:30.They might have overestimated the degree to which this will be a huge

:04:31. > :04:36.influential platform. The standard was very pro-Tory at the 2015

:04:37. > :04:40.election but London voted Labour, it was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they

:04:41. > :04:45.elected Sadiq Khan. It might be overestimating the degree to which

:04:46. > :04:49.this is a hugely influential paper. But I can see why it attracts him as

:04:50. > :04:56.a platform when all these platforms have disappeared, eg power and

:04:57. > :05:01.government. All of these people who used to be in power are quietly

:05:02. > :05:05.getting together again, Mr Blair on television this morning, George

:05:06. > :05:09.Osborne not only filling his bank account but now in charge of

:05:10. > :05:13.London's most important newspaper, Nick Clegg out today not saying

:05:14. > :05:20.Brexit was a done deal, waiting to see what happens, even John Major

:05:21. > :05:23.was wheeled out again today in the Mail on Sunday. They are all playing

:05:24. > :05:28.for position. I half expect David Cameron to turn up as features

:05:29. > :05:35.editor on The Evening Standard. Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg,

:05:36. > :05:39.did he not? I do not think this is sustainable for George Osborne, I

:05:40. > :05:42.worked at The Evening Standard and I was there for three years, I know

:05:43. > :05:46.what the hours are like for a humble journalist, never mind the editor.

:05:47. > :05:51.If he thinks he can get at 4am everyday to be in the offices at 5am

:05:52. > :05:55.to oversee the splash, manage everything in the way and edited

:05:56. > :06:00.should he is in cloud cuckoo land. What this says to people is there is

:06:01. > :06:04.a kind of feel of soft corruption about public life here, where you

:06:05. > :06:07.see what you can get away with. He thinks he can brazen this out and

:06:08. > :06:10.maybe he can but what kind of message does that send to people

:06:11. > :06:16.about how seriously people take the role of being an MP? He must have

:06:17. > :06:20.known. He applied for the job. The Russian owner didn't approach him,

:06:21. > :06:26.he approached Lebedev, the proprietor, for it. He must have

:06:27. > :06:30.calculated there would be some kickback. I wonder if he realised

:06:31. > :06:34.there would be quite the kickback there has been. I think that's

:06:35. > :06:38.probably right. This hasn't finished yet, by the way, this will go on and

:06:39. > :06:43.on. How on earth does George Osborne cover the budget in the autumn? Big

:06:44. > :06:48.budget, lots of physical changes and tax rises to deal with the messages

:06:49. > :06:53.out of this week. You can see already, Theresa May budget crashes.

:06:54. > :06:58.It could be worse. She's useless! Or, worse than that, me, brilliant

:06:59. > :07:05.budget, terrible newspaper, I've never buying it again. He has

:07:06. > :07:08.hoisted his own petard. He has not bought it properly through. It's a

:07:09. > :07:14.something interesting about his own future calculations, if he wants to

:07:15. > :07:18.stay on as an MP in 2020 and be Prime Minister as he has or was

:07:19. > :07:21.wanted to be he has got to find a new seat. How do you go into an

:07:22. > :07:26.association and say I should be an MP, I can do it for at least four

:07:27. > :07:29.hours Purdy after editing The Evening Standard, making a big

:07:30. > :07:36.speech and telling Black Rock how to make a big profit. The feature pages

:07:37. > :07:41.have to be approved for the next day and feature pages are aware the

:07:42. > :07:47.editor gets to make their mark. The news is the news. The feature is

:07:48. > :07:50.what concerns you, what he is in your bonnet. That defines the

:07:51. > :07:59.newspaper, doesn't it? It is not over yet. Too much 101 on

:08:00. > :08:02.newspapers. And Haatheq at. School funding, the consultation

:08:03. > :08:10.period ends, it has been a tricky one for the government, some areas

:08:11. > :08:14.losing. I guess we are seeing this through the prism of the National

:08:15. > :08:20.Insurance contributions now, it is a small majority, if Tory MPs are

:08:21. > :08:26.unhappy she may not get her way. Talking to backbench MPs who are

:08:27. > :08:30.unhappy the feeling is it is not going to go ahead in the proposed

:08:31. > :08:35.form that the consultation has been on. No 10 will definitely have to

:08:36. > :08:38.move on this. It is unclear whether they will scrap it completely, or

:08:39. > :08:43.will they bring in something possibly like a base level, floor

:08:44. > :08:49.level pupil funding below which you can't go? You would then still need

:08:50. > :08:52.to find some extra money. So there are no easy solutions on this but

:08:53. > :08:55.what is clear it is not going to go ahead in its current form. Parents

:08:56. > :09:00.have been getting letters across the country in England about what this

:09:01. > :09:04.will mean for teachers and so on in certain schools. It's not just a

:09:05. > :09:08.matter of the education Department, the schools, or the teachers and

:09:09. > :09:13.Tory backbenchers. Parents are being mobilised on this. The point of the

:09:14. > :09:17.new funding formula is to allocate more money to the more

:09:18. > :09:21.disadvantaged. That means schools in the more prosperous suburbs are

:09:22. > :09:25.going to lose money. Budget cuts on schools which are already

:09:26. > :09:30.struggling. It comes down again to be huge problem, the ever smaller

:09:31. > :09:35.fiscal pool, ever greater demands, NHS, social care, education as well,

:09:36. > :09:40.adding to Theresa May and Phillip Hammond's enormous problems. Here is

:09:41. > :09:45.an interesting issue, Steve. There was a labour Leader of the

:09:46. > :09:48.Opposition that once suggested perhaps given these huge energy

:09:49. > :09:52.companies which seemed to be good at passing on energy rises but not so

:09:53. > :09:56.good at cutting energy prices when it falls, that perhaps we should put

:09:57. > :10:01.a cap on them until at least we study how the market goes. This was

:10:02. > :10:05.obviously ludicrous Marxism and quite rightly knocked down by the

:10:06. > :10:10.Conservatives, except that Mrs May is now talking about putting a cap

:10:11. > :10:13.on energy prices. Yes, I think if it wasn't for Brexit we would focus

:10:14. > :10:18.much more on Theresa May's Ed Miliband streak. Whether this

:10:19. > :10:23.translates into policies, let us see. That bit we don't know. That

:10:24. > :10:26.bit we don't know but in terms of argument her speech to the

:10:27. > :10:31.Conservative conference on Friday was about the third or fourth time

:10:32. > :10:35.where she said as part of the speech, let's focus on the good that

:10:36. > :10:40.government can do, including in intervening in markets, exactly in

:10:41. > :10:44.the way that he used to argue. As you say, we await the policy

:10:45. > :10:48.consequences of that. She seems more cautious in terms of policy in

:10:49. > :10:52.fermentation. But in terms of the industrial strategy, in terms of

:10:53. > :10:57.implying intervention in certain markets, there is a kind of

:10:58. > :11:00.Milibandesque streak. And there comes a time when she has to walk

:11:01. > :11:07.the walk as well as talk the talk. They talk a lot about the just about

:11:08. > :11:11.managing, just about managing face rising food bills because of the

:11:12. > :11:16.lower pound and face rising fuel bills because of the rise in oil and

:11:17. > :11:21.in other commodities. One of the two things you could do to help the just

:11:22. > :11:25.about managing is to cut their food bills and the second would be to cut

:11:26. > :11:28.their fuel bills. At some stage she has to do something for them. We

:11:29. > :11:33.don't know what is going to happen to food bills under Brexit, that

:11:34. > :11:36.could become a really serious issue. They could abolish tariffs. There

:11:37. > :11:39.has been a lot of talking the talk and big announcements put out and

:11:40. > :11:41.not following through so I agree with you on that but lots of Tory

:11:42. > :11:56.MPs will have a big problem on this and the principle of

:11:57. > :11:59.continually talking about interfering in markets, whether it's

:12:00. > :12:02.on executive pay, whether it is on energy, at a time when Britain needs

:12:03. > :12:04.to send out this message to the world in their view, in the view of

:12:05. > :12:07.Brexit supporting MPs, that we are open for business and the government

:12:08. > :12:10.is not about poking around and doing this kind of thing. Of course, you

:12:11. > :12:12.could argue there is not a problem in the market for energy, it is a

:12:13. > :12:16.malfunctioning market that doesn't operate like a free market should,

:12:17. > :12:19.so that provides even Adam Smith, the inventor of market economics

:12:20. > :12:23.would have said on that basis you should intervene. I was in Cardiff

:12:24. > :12:26.to listen to Theresa May's latest explanation for doing this. By the

:12:27. > :12:32.way, we've been waiting nine months, this was one of her big ideas. You

:12:33. > :12:35.are right, let's see a bit of the meat, please. My newspaper has been

:12:36. > :12:38.calling for some pretty hefty government action on this for quite

:12:39. > :12:44.some time. For the just about managings? Yes and specifically to

:12:45. > :12:48.sort out an energy market dominated by the big six, which is manifestly

:12:49. > :12:51.ripping people off left, right and centre. Theresa May's argument in

:12:52. > :12:58.Cardiff on Friday morning which, by the way, went down like a proverbial

:12:59. > :13:01.windbreak at the proverbial funeral because Tories... You know what I

:13:02. > :13:05.mean Andrew, the big hand coming into from the state telling

:13:06. > :13:08.businesses what to do. They went very quiet indeed. They were having

:13:09. > :13:13.saving the union and Nato but there was no clapping for that. The point

:13:14. > :13:17.being, this is what she needs to do to prove her assault, to prove those

:13:18. > :13:21.first words on the steps of Downing Street. We await to see the actions

:13:22. > :13:28.taken. On that unusual agreement we will

:13:29. > :13:30.leave it there. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at

:13:31. > :13:33.noon and everyday during the week. And I'll be here on BBC One

:13:34. > :13:35.next Sunday at 11am. Remember, if it's Sunday,

:13:36. > :14:19.it's the Sunday Politics. I've not given myself that time

:14:20. > :14:25.to sit down Two years ago, former England

:14:26. > :14:29.captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife