07/05/2017

:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:42. > :00:44.The local election results made grim reading for Labour.

:00:45. > :00:48.With just a month to go until the general election,

:00:49. > :00:52.will promising to rule out tax rises for all but the well off help

:00:53. > :00:57.The Conservatives have their own announcement on mental health,

:00:58. > :01:00.as they strain every sinew to insist they don't think they've got

:01:01. > :01:07.But is there still really all to play for?

:01:08. > :01:11.And tonight we will find out who is the next

:01:12. > :01:14.President of France - Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen -

:01:15. > :01:19.In the East Midlands: ended with a hack attack

:01:20. > :01:21.Our county councils turn blue as the Conservatives sweep the board.

:01:22. > :01:28.And in the general election, the big guns target the region.

:01:29. > :01:31.potential impact in marginals next month. If Ukip support continues to

:01:32. > :01:38.evaporate... And joining me for all of that,

:01:39. > :01:41.three journalists ready to analyse the week's politics

:01:42. > :01:45.with all the forensic focus of Diane Abbott

:01:46. > :01:48.preparing for an interview, and all the relaxed,

:01:49. > :01:50.slogan-free banter of Theresa May It's Janan Ganesh, Isabel Oakeshott

:01:51. > :01:56.and Steve Richards. So, the Conservatives are promising,

:01:57. > :02:03.if re-elected, to change mental health laws in England and Wales

:02:04. > :02:06.to tackle discrimination, and they're promising 10,000 more

:02:07. > :02:12.staff working in NHS mental health treatment in England by 2020 -

:02:13. > :02:14.although how that's to be Here's Health Secretary

:02:15. > :02:17.Jeremy Hunt speaking There is a lot of new

:02:18. > :02:25.money going into it. In January, we said we were going

:02:26. > :02:28.to put an extra ?1 billion Does this come from other parts

:02:29. > :02:32.of the NHS, or is it No, it is new money

:02:33. > :02:35.going into the NHS It's not just of course money,

:02:36. > :02:42.it's having the people who deliver these jobs,

:02:43. > :02:44.which is why we need Well, we're joined now from Norwich

:02:45. > :02:49.by the Liberal Democrat health This weekend, they've launched

:02:50. > :02:52.their own health announcement, promising a 1% rise on every income

:02:53. > :03:04.tax band to fund the NHS. Do you welcome the Conservatives

:03:05. > :03:09.putting mental health onto the campaign agenda in the way that they

:03:10. > :03:14.have? I welcome it being on the campaign agenda but I do fear that

:03:15. > :03:19.the announcement is built on thin air. You raised the issue at the

:03:20. > :03:22.start about the 10,000 extra staff, and questions surrounding how it

:03:23. > :03:27.would be paid for. There is no additional money on what they have

:03:28. > :03:34.already announced for the NHS. We know it falls massively short on the

:03:35. > :03:38.expectation of the funding gap which, by 2020, is likely to be

:03:39. > :03:43.about 30 billion. That is not disputed now. Anyone outside of the

:03:44. > :03:47.government, wherever you are on the political spectrum, knows the money

:03:48. > :03:56.going in is simply not enough. So, rather like the claim that they

:03:57. > :04:00.would add 5000 GPs to the workforce by 2020, that is not on target.

:04:01. > :04:06.Latest figures show a fall in the number of GPs. They make these

:04:07. > :04:10.claims, but I'm afraid they are without substance, unless they are

:04:11. > :04:15.prepared to put money behind it. Your party's solution to the money

:04:16. > :04:26.problem is to put a 1% percentage point on all of the bands of income

:04:27. > :04:33.tax to raise more money 20-45. Is that unfair? Most pensioners who

:04:34. > :04:37.consume 40% of NHS spending, but over 65s only pay about 20% of

:04:38. > :04:42.income tax. Are you penalising the younger generations for the health

:04:43. > :04:46.care of an older generation? It is the first step in what we are

:04:47. > :04:52.describing as a 5-point recovery plan for the NHS and care system.

:04:53. > :04:58.So, for what is available to us now, it seems to be the fairest way of

:04:59. > :05:01.bringing in extra resources, income tax is progressive, and is based on

:05:02. > :05:06.your ability to pay for your average British worker. It would be ?3 per

:05:07. > :05:11.week which is the cost of less than two cups of coffee per week. In the

:05:12. > :05:16.longer run, we say that by the end of the next Parliament, we would be

:05:17. > :05:23.able to introduce a dedicated NHS and care tax. Based, probably,

:05:24. > :05:28.around a reformed national insurance system, so it becomes a dedicated

:05:29. > :05:32.NHS and care tax. Interestingly, the former permanent secretary of the

:05:33. > :05:37.Treasury, Nick MacPherson, said clearly that this idea merits

:05:38. > :05:43.further consideration which is the first time anyone for the Treasury

:05:44. > :05:47.has bought into the idea of this. Let me ask you this. You say it is a

:05:48. > :05:52.small amount of tax that people on average incomes will have to pay

:05:53. > :05:57.extra. We are talking about people who have seen no real increases to

:05:58. > :06:02.their income since 2007. They have been struggling to stand still in

:06:03. > :06:06.terms of their own pay, but you are going to add to their tax, and as I

:06:07. > :06:11.said earlier, most of the health care money will then go to

:06:12. > :06:16.pensioners whose incomes have risen by 15%. I'm interested in the

:06:17. > :06:22.fairness of this redistribution? Bearing in mind first of all,

:06:23. > :06:28.Andrew, that the raising of the tax threshold that the Liberal Democrats

:06:29. > :06:33.pushed through in the coalition increased the effective pay in your

:06:34. > :06:38.pocket for basic rate taxpayers by about ?1000. We are talking about a

:06:39. > :06:41.tiny fraction of that. I suppose that you do have to ask, all of us

:06:42. > :06:47.in this country need to ask ourselves this question... Are we

:06:48. > :06:52.prepared to pay, in terms of the average worker, about ?3 extra per

:06:53. > :06:57.week to give us a guarantee that when our loved ones need that care,

:06:58. > :07:02.in their hour of need, perhaps suspected cancer, that care will be

:07:03. > :07:07.available for them? I have heard two cases recently brought my attention.

:07:08. > :07:11.An elderly couple, the wife has a very bad hip. They could not allow

:07:12. > :07:16.the weight to continue. She was told that she would need to wait 26

:07:17. > :07:19.weeks, she was in acute pain. They then deduct paying ?20,000 for

:07:20. > :07:24.private treatment to circumvent waiting time. They hated doing it,

:07:25. > :07:30.because they did not want to jump the queue. But that is what is

:07:31. > :07:33.increasingly happening. Sorry to interrupt, Norman Lamb comedy make

:07:34. > :07:39.very good points but we are short on time today. One final question, it

:07:40. > :07:44.looks like you might have the chance to do any of this, I'm told the best

:07:45. > :07:49.you can hope to do internally is to double the number of seats you have,

:07:50. > :07:54.which would only take you to 18. Do you think that promising to raise

:07:55. > :07:59.people's income tax, even those on average earnings, is a vote winner?

:08:00. > :08:02.I think the people in this country are crying out for politicians to be

:08:03. > :08:09.straight and tenet as it is. At the moment we heading towards a

:08:10. > :08:14.Conservative landslide... -- tell it as it is. But do we want a 1-party

:08:15. > :08:19.state? We are electing a government not only to deal with the crucial

:08:20. > :08:23.Brexit negotiations, but oversee the stewardship of the NHS and funding

:08:24. > :08:26.of our schools, all of these critical issues. We need an

:08:27. > :08:31.effective opposition and with the Labour Party having taken itself off

:08:32. > :08:34.stage, the Liberal Democrats need to provide an effective opposition.

:08:35. > :08:38.Norman Lamb, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you.

:08:39. > :08:42.Labour and Tories are anxious to stress the general election

:08:43. > :08:44.result is not a foregone conclusion, whatever the polls say.

:08:45. > :08:48.Order you just heard Norman Lamb say there that he thought the

:08:49. > :08:51.Conservatives were heading for a landslide...

:08:52. > :08:53.But did Thursday's dramatic set of local election results

:08:54. > :08:57.in England, Scotland and Wales give us a better idea of how the country

:08:58. > :09:00.Here's Emma Vardy with a behind-the-scenes look at how

:09:01. > :09:04.Good morning, it's seven o'clock on Friday, May 5th...

:09:05. > :09:09.The dawn of another results day. Anticipation hung in the air.

:09:10. > :09:14.Early results from the local elections in England suggest

:09:15. > :09:16.there's been a substantial swing from Labour to the Conservatives.

:09:17. > :09:20.While the pros did their thing, I needed breakfast.

:09:21. > :09:23.Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to pinch a sausage.

:09:24. > :09:25.The overnight counts had delivered successes for the Tories.

:09:26. > :09:26.But with most councils only getting started,

:09:27. > :09:32.there was plenty of action still to come.

:09:33. > :09:34.It's not quite the night of Labour's nightmares.

:09:35. > :09:36.There's enough mixed news in Wales, for example -

:09:37. > :09:40.looks like they're about to hold Cardiff - that they'll try and put

:09:41. > :09:47.But in really simple terms, four weeks from a general election,

:09:48. > :09:49.the Tories are going forward and Labour are going backwards.

:09:50. > :09:54.How does it compare being in here to doing the telly?

:09:55. > :10:00.Huw, how do you prepare yourself for a long day of results, then?

:10:01. > :10:06.We're not even on air yet, as you can see, and already

:10:07. > :10:09.in Tory HQ this morning, there's a kind of, "Oh,

:10:10. > :10:12.I'm scared this will make people think the election's just

:10:13. > :10:15.I think leave it like that - perfect.

:10:16. > :10:18.I want the Laura look. This is really good, isn't it?

:10:19. > :10:22.Usually, we're in here for the Daily Politics.

:10:23. > :10:27.But it's been transformed for the Election Results programme.

:10:28. > :10:39.But hours went by without Ukip winning a single seat.

:10:40. > :10:45.The joke going around Lincolnshire County Council today

:10:46. > :10:48.from the Conservatives is that the Tories have eaten

:10:49. > :10:51.We will rebrand and come back strong.

:10:52. > :10:57.Morale, I think, is inevitably going to take a bit of a tumble.

:10:58. > :11:00.Particularly if Theresa May starts backsliding on Brexit.

:11:01. > :11:02.And then I think we will be totally reinvigorated.

:11:03. > :11:05.There are a lot of good people in Ukip and I wouldn't

:11:06. > :11:08.want to say anything unkind, but we all know it's over.

:11:09. > :11:12.Ukip press officer. Difficult job.

:11:13. > :11:16.Ukip weren't the only ones putting a brave face on it.

:11:17. > :11:19.Labour were experiencing their own disaster day too,

:11:20. > :11:23.losing hundreds of seats and seven councils.

:11:24. > :11:27.If the result is what these results appear to indicate,

:11:28. > :11:32.Can we have a quick word for the Sunday Politics?

:11:33. > :11:40.A quick question for Sunday Politics - how are you feeling?

:11:41. > :11:45.Downhearted or fired up for June? Fired up, absolutely fired up.

:11:46. > :11:47.He's fired up. We're going to go out there...

:11:48. > :11:49.We cannot go on with another five years of this.

:11:50. > :11:52.How's it been for you today? Tiring.

:11:53. > :11:55.It always is, but I love elections, I really enjoy them.

:11:56. > :11:59.Yes, you know, obviously we're disappointed at some of the results,

:12:00. > :12:02.it's been a mixed bag, but some opinion polls

:12:03. > :12:07.and commentators predicted we'd be wiped out - we haven't.

:12:08. > :12:09.As for the Lib Dems, not the resurgence they hoped for,

:12:10. > :12:17.After a dead heat in Northumberland, the control of a whole council came

:12:18. > :12:26.The section of England in which we had elections yesterday

:12:27. > :12:30.was the section of England that was most likely to vote Leave.

:12:31. > :12:33.When you go to sleep at night, do you just have election results

:12:34. > :12:39.The answer is if that's still happening, I don't get to sleep.

:12:40. > :12:41.There we go. Maybe practice some yoga...

:12:42. > :12:46.Thank you very much but I have one here.

:12:47. > :12:49.With the introduction of six regional mayors,

:12:50. > :12:52.Labour's Andy Burnham became Mr Manchester.

:12:53. > :12:55.But by the time Corbyn came to celebrate, the new mayor

:12:56. > :13:01.We want you to stay for a second because I've got some

:13:02. > :13:04.I used to present news, as you probably know.

:13:05. > :13:06.I used to present BBC Breakfast in the morning.

:13:07. > :13:09.The SNP had notable successes, ending 40 years of Labour

:13:10. > :13:15.What did you prefer - presenting or politics?

:13:16. > :13:22.And it certainly had been a hard day at the office for some.

:13:23. > :13:26.Ukip's foothold in local government was all but wiped out,

:13:27. > :13:28.leaving the Conservatives with their best local

:13:29. > :13:33.So another election results day draws to a close.

:13:34. > :13:36.But don't worry, we'll be doing it all again in five weeks' time.

:13:37. > :13:39.For now, though, that's your lot. Off you go.

:13:40. > :13:51.Now let's look at some of Thursday's results in a little more detail,

:13:52. > :13:53.and what they might mean for the wider fortunes

:13:54. > :14:06.In England, there were elections for 34 councils.

:14:07. > :14:07.The Conservatives took control of ten of them,

:14:08. > :14:09.gaining over 300 seats, while Labour sustained

:14:10. > :14:14.While the Lib Dems lost 28 seats, Ukip came close to extinction,

:14:15. > :14:20.and can now boast of only one councillor in the whole of England.

:14:21. > :14:22.In Scotland, the big story was Labour losing

:14:23. > :14:25.a third of their seats, and control of three councils -

:14:26. > :14:27.while the Tories more than doubled their number of councillors.

:14:28. > :14:31.In Wales, both the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru made gains,

:14:32. > :14:37.There was some encouraging news for Jeremy Corbyn's party

:14:38. > :14:39.after Liverpool and Manchester both elected Labour mayors,

:14:40. > :14:46.although the Tories narrowly won the West Midlands mayoral race.

:14:47. > :14:49.We're joined now by who else but elections expert John Curtice.

:14:50. > :14:53.You saw him in Emma's film, he's now back in Glasgow.

:14:54. > :15:06.In broad terms, what do these local election results tell us about the

:15:07. > :15:11.general election result? First we have to remember what Theresa May

:15:12. > :15:14.wants to achieve in the general election is a landslide, and winning

:15:15. > :15:19.a landslide means you have to win big in terms of votes. The local

:15:20. > :15:22.election results certainly suggest Theresa May is well on course to win

:15:23. > :15:27.the general election, at least with four weeks to go, and of course

:15:28. > :15:30.people could change their minds. We all agree the Conservatives were

:15:31. > :15:35.double-digit figures ahead of Labour in these elections. However, whereas

:15:36. > :15:42.the opinion polls on average at the moment suggest there is a 17 point

:15:43. > :15:44.Conservative lead, and that definitely would deliver a

:15:45. > :15:47.landslide, it seems the local election figures, at least in

:15:48. > :15:51.England, are pointing to something close to an 11 point Conservative

:15:52. > :15:57.lead. That increase would not necessarily deliver a landslide that

:15:58. > :16:01.she wants. The truth is, the next four weeks are probably not about

:16:02. > :16:05.who wins this election unless something dramatic changes, but

:16:06. > :16:08.there is still a battle as to whether or not Theresa May achieves

:16:09. > :16:13.her objective of winning a landslide. She has to win big. The

:16:14. > :16:17.local elections as she is not sure to be there, and therefore she is

:16:18. > :16:21.going to have to campaign hard. Equally, while Labour did have most

:16:22. > :16:26.prospect of winning, they still at least at the goal of trying to keep

:16:27. > :16:30.the conservative majority relatively low, and therefore the Parliamentary

:16:31. > :16:34.Labour Party are alive and kicking. Interesting that the local election

:16:35. > :16:38.results don't produce a landslide if replicated on June 8th, but when I

:16:39. > :16:44.looked at when local elections had taken place a month before the

:16:45. > :16:49.general election, it was in 1983 and 1987. The Tories did well in both

:16:50. > :16:52.local elections in these years, but come the general election, they

:16:53. > :16:57.added five points to their share of the vote. No reason it should happen

:16:58. > :17:01.again, but if it did, that would take them into landslide territory.

:17:02. > :17:05.Absolutely right, if they do five points better than the local

:17:06. > :17:11.elections, they are in landslide territory. We have to remember, in

:17:12. > :17:16.1983, the Labour Party ran an inept campaign and their support ballet.

:17:17. > :17:22.In 1987, David Owen and David Steele could not keep to the same lines. --

:17:23. > :17:25.their support fell away. That underlines how well the opposition

:17:26. > :17:29.campaign in the next four weeks does potentially matter in terms of

:17:30. > :17:33.Theresa May's ability to achieve their objective. It is worth

:17:34. > :17:38.noticing in the opinion polls, two things have happened, first, Ukip

:17:39. > :17:41.voters, a significant slice going to the Conservatives, which helped to

:17:42. > :17:44.increase the Conservative leader in the bowels. But in the last week,

:17:45. > :17:50.the Labour vote seems to have recovered. -- in the polls. So the

:17:51. > :17:56.party is not that far short of what Ed Miliband got in 2015, so the

:17:57. > :18:00.Conservative leader is back down to 16 or 17, as we started. So we

:18:01. > :18:06.should not necessarily presume Labour are going to go backwards in

:18:07. > :18:11.the way they did in 1983. I want to finish by asking if there are deeper

:18:12. > :18:13.forces at work? Whether the referendum in this country is

:18:14. > :18:18.producing a realignment in British politics. The Scottish referendum

:18:19. > :18:23.has produced a kind of realignment in Scotland. And in a different way,

:18:24. > :18:30.the Brexit referendum has produced a realignment in England and Wales. Do

:18:31. > :18:33.you agree? You are quite right. Referendums are potentially

:18:34. > :18:36.disruptive in Scotland, they helped to ensure the constitutional

:18:37. > :18:41.question became the central issue, and the 45% who voted yes our been

:18:42. > :18:45.faithful to the SNP since. Although the SNP put in a relatively

:18:46. > :18:50.disappointing performance in Scotland on Thursday. Equally, south

:18:51. > :18:53.of the border, on the leave side, in the past 12 months and particularly

:18:54. > :18:58.the last few weeks, the Conservatives have corralled the

:18:59. > :19:03.leave vote, about two thirds of those who voted leave now say they

:19:04. > :19:07.will vote Conservative. Last summer, the figure was only 50%. On the

:19:08. > :19:17.remain side, the vote is still fragmented. The reason why Theresa

:19:18. > :19:21.May is in the strong position she is is not simply because the leave vote

:19:22. > :19:29.has been realigned, but the remain vote has not. Thank you for joining

:19:30. > :19:33.us. You can go through polls and wonder who is up and down, but I

:19:34. > :19:38.wonder whether the Scottish and Brexit referendums have produced

:19:39. > :19:45.fundamental changes. In Scotland, the real division now is between the

:19:46. > :19:50.centre-left Nationalist party and the centre-right Unionist party.

:19:51. > :19:54.That has had the consequence of squeezing out Labour in the

:19:55. > :19:59.argument, never mind the Greens and the Lib Dems. In London, England,

:20:00. > :20:05.Wales, the Brexit referendum seems to have produced a realignment of

:20:06. > :20:14.the right to the Tories' advantage, and some trouble for the Labour blue

:20:15. > :20:20.vote -- blue-collar vote. It works for the pro Brexit end of the

:20:21. > :20:24.spectrum but not the other half. In the last century, we had people like

:20:25. > :20:27.Roy Jenkins dreaming of and writing about the realignment of British

:20:28. > :20:31.politics as though it could be consciously engineered, and in fact

:20:32. > :20:36.what made it happen was just the calling of a referendum. It's not

:20:37. > :20:39.something you can put about as a politician, it flows from below,

:20:40. > :20:45.when the public begin to think of politics in terms of single issues,

:20:46. > :20:49.dominant issues, such as leaving the European Union. Rather than a broad

:20:50. > :20:54.spectrum designed by a political class. I wonder whether now Remain

:20:55. > :20:59.have it in them to coalesce behind a single party. It doesn't look like

:21:00. > :21:01.they can do it behind Labour. The Liberal Democrats are frankly too

:21:02. > :21:06.small in Parliament to constitute that kind of force. The closest

:21:07. > :21:11.thing to a powerful Remain party is the SNP which by definition has

:21:12. > :21:17.limited appeal south of the border. It is hard. The realignment. We

:21:18. > :21:21.don't know if it is permanent or how dramatic it will be, but there is

:21:22. > :21:25.some kind of realignment going on. At the moment, it seems to be a

:21:26. > :21:30.realignment that by and large is to the benefit of the Conservatives.

:21:31. > :21:33.Without a doubt, and that can be directly attributed to the

:21:34. > :21:36.disappearance of Ukip from the political landscape. I have been

:21:37. > :21:41.saying since the referendum that I thought Ukip was finished. They

:21:42. > :21:45.still seem to be staggering on under the illusion... Some people may have

:21:46. > :21:49.picked up on Nigel Farage this morning saying that Ukip still had a

:21:50. > :21:53.strong role to play until Brexit actually happens. But I think it's

:21:54. > :21:57.very, very hard to convince the voters of that, because they feel

:21:58. > :22:00.that, with the result of the referendum, that was Ukip's job

:22:01. > :22:05.done. And those votes are not going to delay the party -- to the Labour

:22:06. > :22:11.Party because of the flaws with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, they are

:22:12. > :22:15.shifting to the Tories. I agree. The key issue was the referendum. It has

:22:16. > :22:20.produced a fundamental change that few predicted at the time it was

:22:21. > :22:24.called. Most fundamental of all, it has brought about a unity in the

:22:25. > :22:28.Conservative Party. With some exceptions, but they are now off

:22:29. > :22:34.editing the Evening Standard and other things! This is now a party

:22:35. > :22:40.united around Brexit. Since 1992, the Tories have been split over

:22:41. > :22:42.Europe, at times fatally so. The referendum, in ways that David

:22:43. > :22:47.Cameron did not anticipate, has brought about a united front for

:22:48. > :22:51.this election. In a way, this is a sequel to the referendum, because

:22:52. > :22:54.it's about Brexit but we still don't know what form Brexit is going to

:22:55. > :23:01.take. By calling it early, Theresa May has in effect got another go at

:23:02. > :23:05.a kind of Brexit referendum without knowing what Brexit is, with a

:23:06. > :23:07.united Tory party behind her. We shall see if it is a blip or a

:23:08. > :23:10.long-term trend in British politics. Now let's turn to Labour's big

:23:11. > :23:12.campaign announcement today, and that was the promise of no

:23:13. > :23:15.income tax rise for those earning less than ?80,000 -

:23:16. > :23:18.which of course means those earning more than that could

:23:19. > :23:20.face an increase. Here's Shadow Chancellor John

:23:21. > :23:29.McDonell on the BBC earlier. What we are saying today, anyone

:23:30. > :23:34.earning below ?80,000, we will guarantee you will not have an

:23:35. > :23:37.increase in income tax, VAT or national insurance contributions.

:23:38. > :23:42.For those above 80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more

:23:43. > :23:46.to fund our public services. A modest bit. You will see it will be

:23:47. > :23:53.a modest increase. Talking about modest increases, so we can have a

:23:54. > :23:55.society which we believe everyone shares the benefits of.

:23:56. > :24:00.We're joined now by Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon, in Leeds.

:24:01. > :24:07.Mr McDonnell stressed that for those earning over 80,000, they would be

:24:08. > :24:11.paying more but it would be modest. He used the word modest 45 times.

:24:12. > :24:18.But there is only 1.2 million of them. -- 4-5 times. So that would

:24:19. > :24:25.not raise much money. This is about the key part of this tax policy for

:24:26. > :24:28.the many, not the few. We are saying that low earners and middle earners

:24:29. > :24:32.won't be paying more tax under a Labour government, which is not a

:24:33. > :24:36.policy the Conservatives have committed to yet. As John McDonnell

:24:37. > :24:43.also said in his interview earlier, if there is a tax rise on the top 5%

:24:44. > :24:48.of earners, earning over ?80,000, it would be a modest rise. I am trying

:24:49. > :24:55.to work out what that would mean in terms of money. If it is too modest,

:24:56. > :24:58.you don't raise much. What will happen is the Labour Party's

:24:59. > :25:03.manifesto, published in the next couple of weeks, wilfully set out

:25:04. > :25:13.and cost it. I can't make an announcement now. -- will fully set

:25:14. > :25:16.out and cost it. Moving on to the local elections, Mr Corbyn says he

:25:17. > :25:21.is closing the gap with the Tories. What evidence is there? John Curtis

:25:22. > :25:27.just said there was an 11% gap in the results, Labour 11% behind. The

:25:28. > :25:32.polls before that suggested Labour were anything up to 20% behind. Was

:25:33. > :25:38.it a great day for Labour? Certainly not. Is there a lot to do between

:25:39. > :25:43.now and June? Sure, but we are relishing every moment of that.

:25:44. > :25:47.Comparing equivalent elections in 2013, the Tories increased their

:25:48. > :25:57.share of the vote by 13%. You lost 2%. That's a net of 15%. In what way

:25:58. > :26:04.is that closing the gap? We have gone down to 11 points behind. Am I

:26:05. > :26:08.satisfied? Certainly not. Is Labour satisfied? Certainly not. A week is

:26:09. > :26:13.a long time in politics, 4-5 weeks is even longer. The local elections

:26:14. > :26:17.are over, the general election campaign is starting, and we want to

:26:18. > :26:22.put out there the policies that will improve the lives of low and middle

:26:23. > :26:27.income earners. And also many people looking to be well off as well. You

:26:28. > :26:33.lost 133 seats in Scotland. Are you closing the gap in Scotland? The

:26:34. > :26:37.journey back for Labour in Scotland, I always thought, wouldn't be an

:26:38. > :26:41.easy one. Since the council election results and Scotland that we are

:26:42. > :26:45.comparing this to, there has been an independence referendum and the

:26:46. > :26:49.terrible results for Labour in the 2015 general election. So it is a

:26:50. > :26:53.challenge, but one hundreds of thousands of Labour members are

:26:54. > :26:56.determined to meet. That is why we're talking about bread and butter

:26:57. > :27:04.policies to make people's lives better. These local elections took

:27:05. > :27:10.place midtown. Normally mid-term was the worst time for a government. --

:27:11. > :27:15.took place midterm. And the best for an opposition. That is a feature of

:27:16. > :27:20.British politics. So why did you lose 382 councillors in a midterm

:27:21. > :27:25.election? As Andy Burnham said when he gave his acceptance speech after

:27:26. > :27:31.his terrific first ballot result win in Manchester, it was an evening of

:27:32. > :27:35.mixed results for Labour. Generally bad, wasn't it? Why did you lose all

:27:36. > :27:40.of these councillors midterm? It is not a welcome result for Labour, I

:27:41. > :27:45.am not going to be deluded. But what I and the Labour Party are focused

:27:46. > :27:49.on is the next four weeks. And how we are going to put across policies

:27:50. > :27:55.like free school meals for primary school children, ?10 an hour minimum

:27:56. > :28:00.wage, the pledge not to increase tax for low and middle earners, 95% of

:28:01. > :28:04.earners in this country. And saving the NHS from privatisation and

:28:05. > :28:08.funding it properly. These are just some of the policies, including by

:28:09. > :28:13.the way a boost in carers' allowance, that will make the lives

:28:14. > :28:19.of people in Britain better off. Labour are for the many, not for the

:28:20. > :28:23.few. But people like from political parties aspiring to government is to

:28:24. > :28:27.be united and to be singing from the same song sheet among the leaders.

:28:28. > :28:32.You mentioned Andy Burnham. Why did he not join Mr Corbyn when Jeremy

:28:33. > :28:37.Corbyn went to the rally in Manchester on Friday to celebrate

:28:38. > :28:41.his victory? First of all, Andy Burnham did a radio interview

:28:42. > :28:44.straight after his great victory in which he said Jeremy Corbyn helped

:28:45. > :28:51.him to win votes in that election. Why didn't he turn up? As to the

:28:52. > :28:57.reason Andy Burnham wasn't there at the meeting Jeremy was doing in

:28:58. > :29:00.Manchester, it was because, I understand, Andy was booked into

:29:01. > :29:04.celebrate his victory with his family that night. I don't begrudge

:29:05. > :29:08.him that and hopefully you don't. The leader has made the effort to

:29:09. > :29:11.travel to Manchester to celebrate one of the few victories you enjoyed

:29:12. > :29:17.on Thursday, surely you would join the leader and celebrate together?

:29:18. > :29:21.Well, I don't regard, and I am sure you don't, Andy Burnham a nice time

:29:22. > :29:28.with his family... -- I don't begrudge. He made it clear Jeremy

:29:29. > :29:35.Corbyn assisted him. I can see you are not convinced yourself. I am

:29:36. > :29:40.convinced. The outgoing Labour leader in Derbyshire lost his seat

:29:41. > :29:45.on Thursday, you lost Derbyshire, which was a surprise in itself... He

:29:46. > :29:50.said that genuine party supporters said they were not voting Labour

:29:51. > :29:56.while you have Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Are you hearing that on the

:29:57. > :30:01.doorstep too? I have been knocking on hundreds of doors this week in my

:30:02. > :30:04.constituency and elsewhere. And of course, you never get every single

:30:05. > :30:10.voter thinking the leader of any political party is the greatest

:30:11. > :30:14.thing since sliced bread. But it's only on a minority of doorsteps that

:30:15. > :30:19.people are criticising the Labour leader. Most people aren't even

:30:20. > :30:24.talking about these questions. Most people are talking about Jeremy

:30:25. > :30:30.Corbyn's policies, free primary school meals, ?10 an hour minimum

:30:31. > :30:33.wage. Also policies such as paternity pay, maternity pay and

:30:34. > :30:37.sickness pay for the self-employed, that have been hard-pressed under

:30:38. > :30:40.this government. So I don't recognise that pitch of despondency,

:30:41. > :30:46.but I understand that in different areas, in local elections,

:30:47. > :30:50.perspectives are different. That was Derbyshire. The outgoing Labour

:30:51. > :30:53.leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said there was concern on

:30:54. > :30:58.the doorstep about whether Jeremy Corbyn was the right person to lead

:30:59. > :31:03.the Labour Party, and even Rotherham, loyal to Mr Corbyn, won

:31:04. > :31:09.the mail contest in Liverpool, he said that the Labour leader was more

:31:10. > :31:13.might on the doorstep. -- the mayor contest. Does that explain some of

:31:14. > :31:17.the performance on Thursday? I am confident that in the next four

:31:18. > :31:22.weeks, when we get into coverage on television, that people will see

:31:23. > :31:26.further the kind of open leadership Jeremy provides. In contrast to

:31:27. > :31:30.Theresa May's refusal to meet ordinary people. She came to my

:31:31. > :31:34.constituency and I don't think that a single person who lives here. And

:31:35. > :31:38.also she is ducking the chance to debate with Jeremy Corbyn on TV. She

:31:39. > :31:44.should do it and let the people decide. I don't know why she won't.

:31:45. > :31:49.Finally, the Labour mantra is that you are the party of the ordinary

:31:50. > :32:02.people, why is it the case that among what advertisers call C2s, D

:32:03. > :32:08.and E', how can you on the pulse of that social group, how can you do

:32:09. > :32:12.that? Our policy is to assist, protect and improve the living

:32:13. > :32:15.standards of people in those groups and our policy is to protect the

:32:16. > :32:20.living standards of the majority... They do not seem to be convinced? We

:32:21. > :32:22.have four weeks to convince them and I believe that we will. Thank you

:32:23. > :32:25.for coming onto the programme. But the wooden spoon from Thursday's

:32:26. > :32:31.elections undoubtedly went to Ukip. Four years ago the party

:32:32. > :32:33.won its best ever local government performance,

:32:34. > :32:35.but this time its support just Ukip's share of the vote

:32:36. > :32:38.plunging by as much as 18 points, most obviously

:32:39. > :32:42.benefiting the Conservatives. So is it all over for

:32:43. > :32:44.the self-styled people's army? Well we're joined now

:32:45. > :32:46.by the party's leader in the Welsh Assembly,

:32:47. > :32:57.Neil Hamilton, he's in Cardiff. Neil Hamilton, welcome. Ukip

:32:58. > :33:01.finished local elections gaining the same number of councillors as the

:33:02. > :33:07.Rubbish Party, one. That sums up your prospects, doesn't

:33:08. > :33:13.it? Rubbish? We have been around a long time and seemed that I'd go

:33:14. > :33:18.out, go in again, we will keep calm and carry on. We are in a phoney

:33:19. > :33:22.war, negotiations on Brexit have not started but what we know from

:33:23. > :33:25.Theresa May is that in seven years, as Home Secretary and Prime

:33:26. > :33:29.Minister, she has completely failed to control immigration which was one

:33:30. > :33:35.of the great driving forces behind the Brexit result. I'm not really

:33:36. > :33:38.looking for any great success in immigration from the Tories, and a

:33:39. > :33:43.lot of people who have previously voted for Ukip will be back in our

:33:44. > :33:49.part of the field again. They don't seem to care about that at the

:33:50. > :33:54.moment, your party lost 147 council seats. You gain one. It is time to

:33:55. > :33:58.shut up shop, isn't it? You are right, the voters are not focusing

:33:59. > :34:01.on other domestic issues at the moment. They have made up their

:34:02. > :34:07.minds going into these negotiations in Brussels, Theresa May, as Prime

:34:08. > :34:11.Minister, needs as much support as she can get. I think they are wrong

:34:12. > :34:17.in this respect, it would be better to have a cohort of Ukip MPs to back

:34:18. > :34:23.her up. She was greatly helped by the intervention of Mr Juncker last

:34:24. > :34:27.week as well, the stupidity in how the European Commission has tried to

:34:28. > :34:29.bully the British government, in those circumstances the British

:34:30. > :34:35.people will react in one way going the opposite way to what the

:34:36. > :34:39.Brussels establishment one. She has been fortunate as an acute tactician

:34:40. > :34:43.in having the election now. I struggle to see the way back for

:34:44. > :34:47.your party. You aren't a threat to the Tories in the south. Ukip voters

:34:48. > :34:52.are flocking to the Tories in the south. You don't threaten Labour in

:34:53. > :34:56.the north. It is the Tories who threaten Labour now in the north.

:34:57. > :35:02.There is no room to progress, is there? The reality will be is that

:35:03. > :35:06.once we are back on the domestic agenda again, and the Brexit

:35:07. > :35:11.negotiations are concluded, we will know what the outcome is. And the

:35:12. > :35:15.focus will be on bread and butter issues. We have all sorts of

:35:16. > :35:21.policies in our programme which other parties cannot match us on.

:35:22. > :35:25.The talk is putting up taxes to help the health service, we would scrap

:35:26. > :35:28.the foreign aid budget and put another ?8 billion in the health

:35:29. > :35:34.service, no other party says that. These policies would be popular with

:35:35. > :35:38.the ordinary working person. Is Paul Nuttall to blame on the meltdown of

:35:39. > :35:41.what happened, no matter who is leader? These are cosmic forces

:35:42. > :35:45.beyond the control of any individual at the moment, it is certainly not

:35:46. > :35:51.Paul Nuttall's .com he's been in the job for six months and in half that

:35:52. > :35:56.time he was fighting a by-election -- certainly not Paul Nuttall's

:35:57. > :35:59.fault. We have two become more professional than we have been

:36:00. > :36:05.recently. It has not been a brilliant year for Ukip one way or

:36:06. > :36:08.another, as you know, but there are prospects, in future, that are very

:36:09. > :36:13.rosy. I do not believe that the Tories will deliver on other

:36:14. > :36:17.promises that they are now making. The Welsh assembly elections are not

:36:18. > :36:21.until 2021, you are a member of that, but at that point you will not

:36:22. > :36:27.have any MEPs, because we will be out on the timetable. With this

:36:28. > :36:33.current showing he will have no end', you could be Ukip's most

:36:34. > :36:41.senior elected representative. That would be a turnout for the books! --

:36:42. > :36:45.no elected MPs. The Tories are not promoting the policies that I

:36:46. > :36:50.believe them. You will see that in the Ukip manifesto when it is

:36:51. > :37:00.shortly publish... Leaders talk mainly about the male genital

:37:01. > :37:05.mutilation and is -- female and burqas. No, when the manifesto

:37:06. > :37:12.launched, we have a lot of policies, I spoke moments ago about it, but

:37:13. > :37:16.also on foreign aid. Scrapping green taxes, to cut people's electricity

:37:17. > :37:25.bills by ?300 per year on average. There are a lot of popular policies

:37:26. > :37:29.that we have. We will hear more from that in the weeks to come.

:37:30. > :37:33.Paul Nuttall said "If the price of written leaving the year is a Tory

:37:34. > :37:39.advance after taking up this patriarch course, it is a price that

:37:40. > :37:43.Ukip is prepared to pay". That sounds like a surrender statement?

:37:44. > :37:48.It is a statement of fact, the main agenda is to get out of the EU and

:37:49. > :37:54.have full Brexit. That is why Ukip came into existence 20 years ago.

:37:55. > :37:58.When it is achieved, we go back to the normal political battle lines.

:37:59. > :38:02.Niall Hamilton in Cardiff, thank you very much for joining us.

:38:03. > :38:04.It's just gone 11.35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:05. > :38:07.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:38:08. > :38:17.Coming up here in 20 minutes - we'll be talking about the French

:38:18. > :38:21.The results of one election are in, and it's a big win

:38:22. > :38:24.for the Conservatives in the East Midlands with Labour

:38:25. > :38:32.We fought a really good campaign on local issues and I think

:38:33. > :38:36.We got our manifesto out early, we really hit the doorsteps,

:38:37. > :38:38.we delivered thousands of leaflets, we talked to thousands of people...

:38:39. > :38:44.And the general election steps up a gear as the big guns

:38:45. > :38:50.The simple fact is that this election is a choice

:38:51. > :38:53.between who becomes Prime Minister after the 8th of June,

:38:54. > :38:57.and it is either going to be Theresa May or it is going to be

:38:58. > :39:00.It is not a presidential election, we are a parliamentary system.

:39:01. > :39:03.The only people who can vote for Theresa May are those who live

:39:04. > :39:07.And I am at Westminster as two of our best-known MPs

:39:08. > :39:15.Kay Cutts is the new leader of Nottinghamshire County Council

:39:16. > :39:17.and Hardyal Dhindsa is Labour's Police and Crime

:39:18. > :39:24.We're also joined for the first part of the programme by Alan Graves,

:39:25. > :39:30.a Derby City councillor and the regional chairman of Ukip.

:39:31. > :39:32.So first, let's take a closer look at those county council elections.

:39:33. > :39:36.The Conservatives were the big winners in all four East Midlands

:39:37. > :39:38.counties holding elections, gaining control of Lincolnshire and

:39:39. > :39:44.In Nottinghamshire, they fell three seats

:39:45. > :39:46.short of a majority, but the council will have

:39:47. > :39:51.a Conservative leader, Kay Cutts, as the largest party.

:39:52. > :39:53.The biggest turnover was in Derbyshire -

:39:54. > :39:56.a majority of ten seats for Labour disappeared as the Conservatives

:39:57. > :39:58.took control here too, regaining a council they'd

:39:59. > :40:15.Kay Cutts, first, congratulations, on the face of it, good results for

:40:16. > :40:19.the Conservatives but you did not get that all-important majority? No,

:40:20. > :40:22.that was disappointing, I must admit that, but I have to tell you, it was

:40:23. > :40:26.the fault of my colleagues because you could took the seat of a buzz

:40:27. > :40:33.that we could have won in Gedling and that cost us the majority. But

:40:34. > :40:37.we move on. You move on, you are the seats short of that supported

:40:38. > :40:40.majority, what are your plans now? Will you run the council as a

:40:41. > :40:48.largest party or will you have to draft in the help and support of

:40:49. > :40:52.those independents and have some sort of coalition of chaos? It will

:40:53. > :40:55.not be that, we do not do chaos in Nottinghamshire! Monday morning I am

:40:56. > :40:58.eating with my senior colleagues and my party and we will make a decision

:40:59. > :41:02.as to what we will do. We will be talking to both the Independent

:41:03. > :41:06.parties and there is the Manse Road independents, four of them, and the

:41:07. > :41:11.actual independents, six of those and one other independent who

:41:12. > :41:18.belongs to no party. We have people to talk to. -- Mansfield. How do you

:41:19. > :41:24.think it will turn out, as to bother you will rely on the independents?

:41:25. > :41:28.We will not rely on them, if you run a coalition it will be parties

:41:29. > :41:31.coming together, not to try to take the Tory whip. It would not be tied

:41:32. > :41:36.to ransom a chaotic administration, I would not try to do that, it is

:41:37. > :41:40.not fair to the electorate. Hardyal Dhindsa, it was a disappointing

:41:41. > :41:43.result for Baber, particularly in the East Midlands, losing

:41:44. > :41:48.Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, the party must feel very demoralised at

:41:49. > :41:52.the moment? It was a very disappointing result for Labour in

:41:53. > :41:57.Derbyshire and the East Midlands. Devastating for many hard-working,

:41:58. > :42:00.very committed councillors who have been doing a job very well for a

:42:01. > :42:06.long time. However, the national picture and the mood has made

:42:07. > :42:09.Derbyshire blue and the East Midlands, the Conservatives are in

:42:10. > :42:15.control and that is where we are at. You are feeling bruised? Yes, it has

:42:16. > :42:19.been a difficult few days but we adhere to represent the people of

:42:20. > :42:23.Derbyshire and the East Midlands and we will do our best to make sure

:42:24. > :42:28.that we challenge, scrutinise and hold to account Conservative

:42:29. > :42:32.controlled councils. Alan Graves, you won one seat across the whole of

:42:33. > :42:36.the country, known in the East Midlands, you lost your only two

:42:37. > :42:43.seats in Leicestershire. Yes, we did. To be fair, the Conservatives

:42:44. > :42:46.have capitalised on our 25 years of hard work and it is very undeserved

:42:47. > :42:50.of our councillors who work very hard and have been working very

:42:51. > :42:54.hard. But let us put things into clarity, this is the county council

:42:55. > :42:57.elections, we have not lost all of our counsellors, we have over 300

:42:58. > :43:01.and on the country and they will continue to hard. You have lost all

:43:02. > :43:08.of them in Lincolnshire. We still have to stick Councillor Astaire.

:43:09. > :43:11.Where does you can go from here? Are their conversations about the future

:43:12. > :43:17.of the party or is it time to pack up? Theresa May has been good on

:43:18. > :43:21.capitalising on our hard work and we have got a white paper... She has to

:43:22. > :43:26.push through Brexit. There is a White Paper on leaving the EU, but

:43:27. > :43:29.it is in name only, there is no substance for that. People voted for

:43:30. > :43:32.something when they wanted to leave the European Union and I am not

:43:33. > :43:35.convinced that Theresa May is the one that is going to bring us out

:43:36. > :43:39.properly in the way that people wanted to be taken out. She has had

:43:40. > :43:44.six years of trying to control immigration and... Is that your only

:43:45. > :43:49.Jopp, to make sure it goes through now? We have a very big part to play

:43:50. > :43:53.in politics because we need to make sure that we hold our feet to the

:43:54. > :43:57.fire. The Labour Party are in complete disarray. Nobody trusts

:43:58. > :44:03.Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour Party internally have a big problem, they

:44:04. > :44:06.are controlled mainly by Momentum people who will keep people like

:44:07. > :44:12.Jeremy Corbyn in power. What do you think went so badly wrong, Hardyal,

:44:13. > :44:14.in the East Midlands? Your party warned that Conservative councils

:44:15. > :44:20.would make bigger cuts and the voters were not listening to that.

:44:21. > :44:23.That is the challenge for the Labour Party, the message is not getting

:44:24. > :44:26.through at the national level, through the media and through our

:44:27. > :44:31.own communication and we have to do something about that. The policies

:44:32. > :44:34.that we have by all accounts are being positively received, but the

:44:35. > :44:40.message nationally is not getting through. We have got to do much more

:44:41. > :44:43.work and be working harder to communicate our policies and stop

:44:44. > :44:49.this being a presidential election campaign, which in this country, it

:44:50. > :44:52.parliamentary democracy. That is not parliamentary democracy. That is not

:44:53. > :44:55.what is being out at the moment. What do you think the biggest

:44:56. > :45:00.battles were in the success of the Tories in the East Midlands, Kay?

:45:01. > :45:03.Theresa May was absolutely a strength and Jeremy Corbyn is not

:45:04. > :45:06.playing well for the Labour Party, but the positive thing is that

:45:07. > :45:10.people actually want Conservative policies, we know that we are party

:45:11. > :45:15.that manage our fears properly and be a prudent with people's money.

:45:16. > :45:20.Actually, they are frightening people. You might not agree with

:45:21. > :45:26.that. We still have a core vote. that. We still have a core vote.

:45:27. > :45:31.Others you might not agree with that, the fact is that people trust

:45:32. > :45:35.the Conservative Party to manage their money properly. The proof of

:45:36. > :45:39.the pudding is in the ballot box, people voted for the Conservatives

:45:40. > :45:43.in droves because they knew that we were going to offer them what they

:45:44. > :45:47.actually want. But we are waiting for those manifesto policies. Alan

:45:48. > :45:51.Greaves, there are reports in the papers this morning that your party

:45:52. > :45:55.leader Paul Nuttall will announce A1M, one heart immigration policy

:45:56. > :45:59.that aims for a net migration target of zero and five years, is that the

:46:00. > :46:08.way to win back voters and how on earth will this work? Well, we are

:46:09. > :46:13.introducing migration as he city size every year, people do not want

:46:14. > :46:14.that, I think, that can cause problems in our communities and

:46:15. > :46:17.problems with our line. We are problems with our line. We are

:46:18. > :46:20.taking a green spaces, were at the Conservatives going to put these

:46:21. > :46:23.people? And problems with our line. We are taking a green spaces, were

:46:24. > :46:30.at the Conservatives going to put these people? In my own Kay, tell us

:46:31. > :46:35.what the first thing you will be doing now as the new leader? We will

:46:36. > :46:37.meet our county pay its will. We were not rock the pockets of people

:46:38. > :46:41.as the Labour Party have done for the last four years, I shall be

:46:42. > :46:45.looking at the large infrastructure projects and working with the

:46:46. > :46:49.Midlands engine. I will work with other leaders in our councils around

:46:50. > :46:56.the area. Including the City Council of Nottingham, we have to work

:46:57. > :47:02.together. Let me finish. What we need, in Nottinghamshire, but... I

:47:03. > :47:07.am not Prime Minister yet, that might happen one day, but until I

:47:08. > :47:11.am, I am dealing in Nottinghamshire and we shall start looking at the

:47:12. > :47:15.infrastructure. We shall look at business parks, improving broadband,

:47:16. > :47:18.we have to pay our way and earn our living. If we are going to get

:47:19. > :47:20.inward investment we will offer people a really good offer like good

:47:21. > :47:25.housing and schools and roads and housing and schools and roads and

:47:26. > :47:28.am proud of in Nottinghamshire and am proud of in Nottinghamshire and

:47:29. > :47:36.We will be it there for the moment. We will be it there for the moment.

:47:37. > :47:39.-- our market towns will appear the way.

:47:40. > :47:41.Let's turn our attention now to the general election and two

:47:42. > :47:44.of the big hitters have been in the East Midlands this weekend

:47:45. > :47:48.Conservative Party chairman, Sir Patrick McLoughlin,

:47:49. > :47:49.was in Mansfield and Jeremy Corbyn hit Leicester.

:47:50. > :47:53.Our political editor Tony Roe spoke to both of them.

:47:54. > :47:55.Not in living memory has Mansfield had anything but a Labour MP,

:47:56. > :47:58.some might assume retired miners here are traditional Labour.

:47:59. > :48:01.It is not that the people have fell out with the Labour Party so much,

:48:02. > :48:04.I think, they have fell out with Corbyn, they just do not

:48:05. > :48:08.And one or two more, Diane Abbott and that, like, you know.

:48:09. > :48:11.For ordinary workers, he is a big problem.

:48:12. > :48:15.It is going to be 50-50 whether it stops Labour or goes Tory and at one

:48:16. > :48:18.You must understand, Labour have only got

:48:19. > :48:21.a 5000 majority here, that can be taken out very quickly.

:48:22. > :48:25.The Conservatives clearly think they can win here in Mansfield,

:48:26. > :48:27.they have taken out a front page and a back page advert

:48:28. > :48:30.But nowhere does it say "Conservative".

:48:31. > :48:36.A former miner is now the Tory Party chairman in charge

:48:37. > :48:40.He is here to open a new election office in an 18th-century bakers

:48:41. > :48:46.These front page adverts you have in the local newspapers,

:48:47. > :48:49.there has been some criticism that you do not actually say

:48:50. > :48:52."Conservative" anywhere on the front page, it is all about Theresa May.

:48:53. > :48:55.Well, she is the leader of the Conservative Party,

:48:56. > :49:02.The simple fact is that this election is a choice

:49:03. > :49:04.between who becomes Prime Minister after the 8th of June,

:49:05. > :49:08.and it is either going to be Theresa May or it is going to be

:49:09. > :49:10.Jeremy Corbyn leading a coalition of chaos.

:49:11. > :49:13.Leicester is a Labour city and party members, 800, they say,

:49:14. > :49:16.packed into a function room at the Tiger's ground,

:49:17. > :49:19.to hear from their leader, a leader they say is not

:49:20. > :49:24.What is in the press and media, that is of no concern to me,

:49:25. > :49:29.I listen to what is on offer and if I like it, I go with it.

:49:30. > :49:32.Social media, I think, has a lot more to play than the main

:49:33. > :49:35.media in elections and things like that because people can

:49:36. > :49:38.post what they like, nothing is really censored as such

:49:39. > :49:42.and the word gets out there a lot more, I think,

:49:43. > :49:47.in terms of what Jeremy is doing for everyday people like me and him.

:49:48. > :49:50.To blame him solely on what he has done is wrong, he has done

:49:51. > :49:54.I think what has actually happened is that everyone,

:49:55. > :49:57.the media does not like him because they are against

:49:58. > :50:07.A rousing welcome, a speech constantly referencing

:50:08. > :50:13.Work for the many, not the few, thank you very much.

:50:14. > :50:18.So, how does he react to Conservatives who are unashamedly

:50:19. > :50:20.pushing this campaign as a choice between the two leaders?

:50:21. > :50:23.This is not a presidential election, we are a parliamentary system.

:50:24. > :50:26.The only people who can vote for Theresa May are those who live

:50:27. > :50:31.We are a team, we are a team that will deal with the health crisis

:50:32. > :50:36.in Britain, we are a team that understands the problems of social

:50:37. > :50:38.care, understands the issues of the National Health Service.

:50:39. > :50:41.We are also a team that has the determination to build

:50:42. > :50:50.an economy that works for all by investment.

:50:51. > :50:52.Later in the day, the campaigning shifted to Derby North,

:50:53. > :50:55.the Tory seat with the smallest majority, 41, and the Labour leader

:50:56. > :50:57.was here to support his staunchly pro-Corbyn candidate who says

:50:58. > :50:59.the election will be a test for Corbyn's politics.

:51:00. > :51:11.Tony, a bit of the world with all of these leaders visiting us at the

:51:12. > :51:16.moment. What is your sense as to how the party workers on the ground feel

:51:17. > :51:21.right now? It is easy to detect confidence and uncertainty and it is

:51:22. > :51:24.with the Conservatives, they see confidence but they are trying to

:51:25. > :51:28.temper that confidence and say not to take things for granted.

:51:29. > :51:33.Remember, the turnout in the local elections is was considered smaller

:51:34. > :51:36.than a general election, so it is quite hard to play that through and

:51:37. > :51:40.see what the result will finally be. Jeremy Corbyn made the point

:51:41. > :51:45.yesterday, saying that he did not think it was as bad as the pundits

:51:46. > :51:48.are saying, that the gap in the local elections was 11% but it is

:51:49. > :51:53.considerably more in the opinion polls. Labour must still be reeling

:51:54. > :51:56.from these results. The local election results, they are

:51:57. > :51:59.particularly reeling in Derbyshire, where there was a big turnaround and

:52:00. > :52:05.that is because the board of Ukip went to the Conservatives, as we

:52:06. > :52:10.thought might happen. But in Nottinghamshire, you have to say,

:52:11. > :52:14.Labour will look and think this is not as bad as it could have been,

:52:15. > :52:17.you look at getting in particular, one of those parliamentary seats

:52:18. > :52:22.where you would think that Vernon Coaker's majority would be washed

:52:23. > :52:27.away, but they vote for Labour in getting seemed to hold up. It looks

:52:28. > :52:33.like the biggest danger to the Conservatives right now is the

:52:34. > :52:35.complacency, isn't it? Particularly at a local elections, people

:52:36. > :52:39.complain about roads and services but if they do not turn out and

:52:40. > :52:43.vote, that does not help us at all. I constantly talk to people and I am

:52:44. > :52:47.sorry to say, a lot of young people have said they will not vote, they

:52:48. > :52:52.cannot be bothered, they have never voted, that is such a shame. Our

:52:53. > :52:56.democracy is precious and was hard fought for and won and I think we

:52:57. > :52:59.should value our vote and I am so sorry when I see people not

:53:00. > :53:02.exercising that. Opinion polls have said that your party has a big lead,

:53:03. > :53:08.the Sunday Telegraph this morning has it that you are on course for

:53:09. > :53:10.the biggest majority in 50 years. Has a central office said to you not

:53:11. > :53:14.to celebrate too much right now, there is a sense that you are all

:53:15. > :53:20.playing it down a little bit and do not want to over egg your position.

:53:21. > :53:23.Nothing like that, no messages have come down not to do that. We have

:53:24. > :53:26.been around far too long to think or celebrating before it happens. We

:53:27. > :53:29.must not be complacent and people will not turn out the mess they

:53:30. > :53:33.think there is something to fight for. I can remember past elections

:53:34. > :53:36.when people took things for granted, think about Neil Kinnock and when

:53:37. > :53:44.they thought it was in the bag for the Labour Party. You have to fight

:53:45. > :53:49.down to the wire. Temp Lee-mac, or pizza, Labour have to move on but

:53:50. > :53:57.Hardyal Dhindsa. We do not, we have Hardyal Dhindsa. We do not, we have

:53:58. > :54:03.to get our message across. In Derbyshire, the three areas that we

:54:04. > :54:10.got parliamentary sitting MPs, they did better than Ruby did not have

:54:11. > :54:16.MPs and the vote held up for them. Natascha Engel 's, Dennis Skinner,

:54:17. > :54:18.Toby Perkins, two seats lost in those parliamentary areas and we

:54:19. > :54:23.have to build on that. We have to see how we engage. It was pretty

:54:24. > :54:27.clear from what we saw and we heard it in the film from poorly they are

:54:28. > :54:31.the traditional working class voters in the East Midlands, certainly the

:54:32. > :54:36.ones that only spoke to in Mansfield area, they do not like Jeremy Corbyn

:54:37. > :54:38.and that looks like a problem for you here and nationally. They just

:54:39. > :54:43.do not like him, that is what they told us. I think it is about

:54:44. > :54:45.engaging with those people in Mansfield and other errors like

:54:46. > :54:49.that, we have to hear their concerns that, we have to hear their concerns

:54:50. > :54:52.and they think that is what we are doing, we are trying at the

:54:53. > :54:55.grassroots to understand their concerns and then we have to

:54:56. > :54:59.articulate them into our message. The policies that we are putting

:55:00. > :55:05.forward are having a positive welcome. Tony Cottee about the

:55:06. > :55:08.position of labour and where the Tories are looking ahead to the

:55:09. > :55:12.election, other signs of the other parties making progress in the East

:55:13. > :55:16.Midlands? If you look at the Lib Dems in the East Midlands, they have

:55:17. > :55:20.gained another seat, the same thing gained another seat, the same thing

:55:21. > :55:23.happened in Derbyshire, lost one seat, gained another, but going back

:55:24. > :55:30.to what we have just said, what will be crucial and I think it is a local

:55:31. > :55:35.thing really, the amount of legwork, the amount of doorknocking, the

:55:36. > :55:38.amount of people that the party talks too, that makes a real

:55:39. > :55:41.happening most, I think maybe that happening most, I think maybe that

:55:42. > :55:46.up. That is going to be crucial and up. That is going to be crucial and

:55:47. > :55:50.I do not think we should assume anything because local factors can

:55:51. > :55:54.play a big part in the election. We saw that at the last general

:55:55. > :55:57.election in the East Midlands. One thing that has clearly been

:55:58. > :56:02.described as that traditional Labour voters went to Ukip because they

:56:03. > :56:06.the Labour Party. Now they are going the Labour Party. Now they are going

:56:07. > :56:12.to the Conservatives. We need to be listening to those people that are

:56:13. > :56:18.giving the impression and actually giving the message that we are

:56:19. > :56:27.concerned about them and we want to help them. For example, things like

:56:28. > :56:31.hour, making sure that working class hour, making sure that working class

:56:32. > :56:38.and lower paid people are not being taxed. The 80,000... Too many

:56:39. > :56:42.messages going out? Yes, they are not listening to people, if you go

:56:43. > :56:46.back to Mansfield which I know well and shop infrequently, the people

:56:47. > :56:49.there have not been listened to voters and feel left behind. The

:56:50. > :56:56.Labour Party have to have a good look at things. People are not

:56:57. > :57:00.ambitious or taught to be ambitious. Very briefly, Tony, before you

:57:01. > :57:03.leave, what is happening this week? We can expect more big hitters

:57:04. > :57:08.coming to the East Midlands from all sides. Thank you, Tony. No doubt the

:57:09. > :57:12.general election will bring in some new faces in Parliament.

:57:13. > :57:15.But two of our familiar faces in the East Midlands are standing down.

:57:16. > :57:17.Conservative Sir Edward Garnier and Labour's Graham Allen have more

:57:18. > :57:19.than 50 years of service between them, but this

:57:20. > :57:21.weekend they've been packing their bags in Westminster.

:57:22. > :57:24.Our reporter, John Hess, caught up with them as they prepared

:57:25. > :57:29.The MPs have gone, so have their advisers,

:57:30. > :57:31.this place, Parliament, is in a state of hibernation

:57:32. > :57:35.But two of our best-known politicians are still inside,

:57:36. > :57:37.clearing their parliamentary offices for the last time.

:57:38. > :57:43.Rolling up the years and his constituency map,

:57:44. > :57:45.Sir Edward Garnier packs up his things after 25 years

:57:46. > :57:52.The constituency achievement I am probably most proud of is the battle

:57:53. > :57:55.against the Co-op new town, they wanted to build up to 20,000

:57:56. > :57:57.new houses on farmland, which would have completely

:57:58. > :58:01.destroyed rural Harborough, it would have turned

:58:02. > :58:03.Market Harborough almost into a suburb of the

:58:04. > :58:10.The former Solicitor General has held high-profile government roles,

:58:11. > :58:14.but that recognition can backfire, as in a chance meeting

:58:15. > :58:25.He said, "I was told you were part of a Dutch parliamentary delegation.

:58:26. > :58:27.Whoever let you in should be taken out and shot."

:58:28. > :58:32.And we had half an hour just chatting and in dealing

:58:33. > :58:36.with a stranger who had just turned up on the off-chance, he could not

:58:37. > :58:39.have been more charming, but also more inspiring.

:58:40. > :58:42.That was one of the great moments of my life.

:58:43. > :58:45.I'm now on my way to the parliamentary offices of another

:58:46. > :58:48.one of our MPs who is standing down after 30 years, Nottingham

:58:49. > :58:56.His staff help with the heavy lifting.

:58:57. > :58:59.In these boxes, the story of this Labour MP's political battles,

:59:00. > :59:05.won and lost and his continuing frustration with Parliament itself.

:59:06. > :59:16.No, not really, I think it has let people down over the last 30 years

:59:17. > :59:19.when I have been here, it has not raised the issues

:59:20. > :59:23.I think the House of Commons is not fit for purpose.

:59:24. > :59:26.It wasn't when I came in and it is not now and we have

:59:27. > :59:29.seen how it has been rolled over by the government.

:59:30. > :59:30.Two MPs from very contrasting political traditions.

:59:31. > :59:33.So what advice would they give now to their successors?

:59:34. > :59:36.I think it is really important to keep that core of integrity,

:59:37. > :59:38.whatever else is going on around you, whatever else you need

:59:39. > :59:41.to do with the media, however many compromises you need

:59:42. > :59:43.to make in politics to make progress, what do you believe in?

:59:44. > :59:46.As a politician you have to develop a pretty thick skin

:59:47. > :59:49.because if you don't, you are in the wrong business.

:59:50. > :59:51.The door is almost shut on a long parliamentary career,

:59:52. > :59:54.as two of our senior politicians take a new destination out

:59:55. > :00:09.It is interesting, isn't it, that Graham Allen who is stepping down

:00:10. > :00:14.after 30 years seems very disillusioned as he leaves

:00:15. > :00:19.Parliament. As politicians who work outside Westminster, do you share

:00:20. > :00:25.that view? Absolutely not, I am extraordinarily proud of Parliament.

:00:26. > :00:29.We had a referendum and then it all settle down. Where else does that

:00:30. > :00:34.happen? No bloodshed, I am proud of our parliamentarians and our MPs. I

:00:35. > :00:36.do not think he is saying that, he simply saying that he is

:00:37. > :00:42.disillusioned. Do you share that view? He has been a great MP and has

:00:43. > :00:45.been really committed to making social change and the early

:00:46. > :00:49.intervention programme he was involved than that, so in that area

:00:50. > :00:52.he did not see enough progress and I think that is where has this

:00:53. > :00:55.appointment is. Personally, I think you have to be in there to keep

:00:56. > :01:01.fighting for the things that you believe in and Graham Allen has been

:01:02. > :01:03.doing that for 20, 30 years. Thank you for that.

:01:04. > :01:05.That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.

:01:06. > :01:07.Thanks to Kay Cutts and Hardyal Dhindsa.

:01:08. > :01:09.Next week, Graham Allen is our guest in the studio,

:01:10. > :01:11.along with the former Conservative MP, Jessica Lee.

:01:12. > :01:15.housing associations and investment, but we have run out of time, thank

:01:16. > :01:30.you. Andrew. Four weeks to go until polling day

:01:31. > :01:33.on the 8th of June, what will the party strategies be for the

:01:34. > :01:40.remaining four weeks? Let's begin with the Conservatives. Do they just

:01:41. > :01:44.try to continue to play it safe for four weeks? Yes, with this important

:01:45. > :01:48.qualification. Theresa May Corp this election to get her own personal

:01:49. > :01:52.mandate partly, partly because she thought she would win big but to get

:01:53. > :01:58.her own personal mandate. Therefore, she needs to define it. In her own

:01:59. > :02:02.interests and to do with accountability to the country. So

:02:03. > :02:07.clearly, they will not take risks when they are so far ahead in the

:02:08. > :02:09.polls. What they do say in the manifesto matters in

:02:10. > :02:16.terms of the space that she has in the coming years to define her

:02:17. > :02:21.leadership against David Cameron 's. She is a free figure, partly on the

:02:22. > :02:31.basis of what she says as to how big she wins. They cannot just play it

:02:32. > :02:36.safe and repeat their mantra of strong and stable leadership, if she

:02:37. > :02:41.is going to claim her own mandate, they need the top policy? Yes, and

:02:42. > :02:44.what is unusual about this is that the manifesto matters far more

:02:45. > :02:47.because of what they need to do with it afterwards, than in terms of

:02:48. > :02:53.whether it is going to win anybody over now. Clearly, the strategy is

:02:54. > :02:57.yes, we do have two layout out a few things, there are interesting

:02:58. > :03:00.debates as to whether, for example, they will still commit to this

:03:01. > :03:04.ambition of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands, we do not

:03:05. > :03:07.know the answer yet. It is a question on whether she is setting

:03:08. > :03:15.herself up for difficulties later on. It will be a short manifesto, I

:03:16. > :03:19.would venture to guess? It is in her interests to be as noncommittal as

:03:20. > :03:23.possible, that argues for a short manifesto but what does strike me

:03:24. > :03:28.about the Conservative campaign, aside from the ambiguity on policy,

:03:29. > :03:33.is how personal it is. I think Theresa May, in her most recent

:03:34. > :03:36.speech, referred to "My local candidates", rather than

:03:37. > :03:43.Parliamentary candidates, very much framing it as a presidential

:03:44. > :03:47.candidate in France or the USA. Not a rational on her part. Everything I

:03:48. > :03:52.hear from the MPs on the ground and the focus groups being done by the

:03:53. > :03:56.parties, is that a big chunk of the population personally identify with

:03:57. > :03:59.her. If you can wrap up Middle England into a physical object and

:04:00. > :04:05.embody it in a person, it would be her. Although Jeremy Corbyn's

:04:06. > :04:08.unpopularity accounts for a big slice of her popularity, she has

:04:09. > :04:12.done a good job of bonding with the public. We never saw that coming!

:04:13. > :04:16.But you may well be right. That is happening now. Labour say it wants

:04:17. > :04:21.the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell to play a more prominent role in the

:04:22. > :04:24.Labour campaign, he was on The Andrew Marr Show this morning and he

:04:25. > :04:29.was asked if he was a Marxist, he denied that he was. It surprised me

:04:30. > :04:37.as I had seen tape from before saying that he was proud of it.

:04:38. > :04:42.Let's look now and then. Are you a Marxist? I believe that there is a

:04:43. > :04:46.lot to learn... Yes or no? I believe that there is a lot to learn from

:04:47. > :04:49.reading capital, that is recommended not only by me but measuring

:04:50. > :04:57.economists as well. I also believe that in the long tradition of the

:04:58. > :05:01.Labour Party... We need to demand systemic change. I am a Marxist.

:05:02. > :05:06.This is a classic crisis of the economy. A capitalist crisis. I've

:05:07. > :05:13.been waiting for this for a generation! That was from about four

:05:14. > :05:17.years ago. No, I'm not a Marxist, yes, I am a Marxist... I've been

:05:18. > :05:21.waiting for the Marxist revolution my whole life... Does this kind of

:05:22. > :05:27.thing matter? Yes, but in fairness, I think he is a really good

:05:28. > :05:31.interviewee. The Shadow Cabinet have untested figures in a national

:05:32. > :05:36.campaign. None have ever been exposed at any level to a national

:05:37. > :05:41.media campaign that they are about to experience. He is the best

:05:42. > :05:46.interviewee. In fairness to him, when he gave that clip four years

:05:47. > :05:49.ago, I bet he never dream that he would be in a senior front bench

:05:50. > :05:54.position. But the background is clear. They are of the left, and I

:05:55. > :06:01.think they would all have described it. Jeremy Corbyn would have done,

:06:02. > :06:05.he is close to being like Tony Benn. There are about four Labour campaign

:06:06. > :06:09.is being fought in this election. Their campaign, the old Shadow

:06:10. > :06:13.Cabinet, campaigning in constituencies, but not identifying

:06:14. > :06:20.with that campaign. There is the former Labour leader Tony Blair. Is

:06:21. > :06:23.it damaging? I think so, if they could be damaged any further, I

:06:24. > :06:28.could see all of the Labour MPs with their heads in their hands. What I

:06:29. > :06:31.am hearing from Labour MPs is that there is not one of them who do not

:06:32. > :06:36.feel that they have a horrendous battle on their hands. These will be

:06:37. > :06:40.very individual local campaigns, where local MPs are winning despite

:06:41. > :06:45.the party leadership and not because of it. Already, talk is turning to

:06:46. > :06:49.what happens next. Is there anyway that Jeremy Corbyn, giving a

:06:50. > :06:55.horrendous set of general election results as many anticipate, may stay

:06:56. > :07:01.on all the same? It is not clear that even if the polls are right,

:07:02. > :07:06.that Mr Corbyn will go? John McDonnell implied it might not be

:07:07. > :07:10.the case but previously, he said it would be. What do you make of

:07:11. > :07:15.reports that the Labour strategy is not, I cannot quite believe I am

:07:16. > :07:20.saying this, not to win seats but maximise a share of the vote. If

:07:21. > :07:24.they do better than Ed Miliband with 30.5% of the vote, they believe they

:07:25. > :07:29.live to fight another day? Yes, it reminded me of Tony Benn's speech

:07:30. > :07:33.after the 1983 election where they said as bad as the Parliamentary

:07:34. > :07:37.defeat was there were 8 million votes for socialism. A big section

:07:38. > :07:45.of public opinion voted for that manifesto. I wonder whether that is

:07:46. > :07:50.Corbyn's supporters best chance of holding onto power. Whether they can

:07:51. > :07:55.say that those votes are a platform on which we can build. That said,

:07:56. > :07:59.even moderate Labour MPs and desperate for a quick leadership

:08:00. > :08:03.contest. I hear a lot of them say that they would like to leave it for

:08:04. > :08:07.one year. Maybe have Tom Watson as an acting Labour leader. He would

:08:08. > :08:11.still have a mandate. Give the top party a chance to regroup and get

:08:12. > :08:14.rid of some of its problems and decide where it stands on policy.

:08:15. > :08:18.Most importantly, for potential candidates to show what they are

:08:19. > :08:24.made of, rather than lurching straight into an Yvette Cooper

:08:25. > :08:31.Coronation. 30 seconds on the Liberal Democrats, their strategy

:08:32. > :08:39.was to mop up the Remain vote. Uncertain about the Brexit party in

:08:40. > :08:41.demise. Ukip. The remain as have a dilemma, the little Democrats are

:08:42. > :08:48.not a strong enough vessel with 89 MPs to risk all ongoing for them --

:08:49. > :08:53.the Liberal Democrats. Labour do not know where they stand on Brexit.

:08:54. > :09:02.There is not a robust alternative vessel for what is now a pro-Brexit

:09:03. > :09:04.Conservative Party. At the moment. Four weeks to go, but not for

:09:05. > :09:06.France... France has been voting since early

:09:07. > :09:09.this morning, and we should get a first estimate of who will be

:09:10. > :09:12.the country's next President Just to warn you there are some

:09:13. > :09:16.flashing images coming up. The choice in France

:09:17. > :09:18.is between a centre-left liberal reformer Emmanuel Macron

:09:19. > :09:20.and a right-wing nationalist Marine Le Pen - both have been

:09:21. > :09:22.casting their votes this morning. The two candidates topped

:09:23. > :09:25.a field of 11 presidential hopefuls in the first

:09:26. > :09:27.round of elections last month. The campaign has been marked

:09:28. > :09:29.by its unpredictability, and in a final twist on Friday

:09:30. > :09:35.evening, just before campaigning officially ended,

:09:36. > :09:37.Mr Macron's En Marche! group said it had been the victim

:09:38. > :09:43.of a "massive" hack, with a trove of documents

:09:44. > :09:45.released online. The Macron team said real documents

:09:46. > :09:48.were mixed up with fake ones, and electoral authorities warned

:09:49. > :09:50.media and the public that spreading details of the leaks would breach

:09:51. > :10:01.strict election rules. I'm joined now from

:10:02. > :10:14.Paris by the journalist As I left Paris recently, everybody

:10:15. > :10:17.told me that there was the consensus that Mr Macron would win, and win

:10:18. > :10:23.pretty comfortable you. Is there any reason to doubt that? -- pretty

:10:24. > :10:28.comfortably. I don't think so, there have been so many people left and

:10:29. > :10:33.right, former candidates who have decided that it was more important

:10:34. > :10:36.to vote for Macron, even if it was agreed with him, then run the risk

:10:37. > :10:44.of having Marine Le Pen as president. I think the spread is now

:10:45. > :10:47.20 points, 60% to Macron, 40% to Le Pen. So outside of the margin of

:10:48. > :10:53.error that it would take something huge for this to be observed. If the

:10:54. > :11:01.polls are right and Mr Macron wins, he has to put together a government,

:11:02. > :11:06.and in May there is a Coronation, then he faces parliamentary

:11:07. > :11:11.elections in June and could face a fractured parliament where he does

:11:12. > :11:13.not have a clear majority for his reforms. He could then faced

:11:14. > :11:19.difficulties in getting his programme through? I think that

:11:20. > :11:25.right now, with how things are looking, considering you have one

:11:26. > :11:30.half of the Republican party, the Conservative Party, they are making

:11:31. > :11:34.clear sides, not only that they want to support Macron but are supporting

:11:35. > :11:39.him actively. It means looking at the equivalent of the German party,

:11:40. > :11:44.the great coalition. Depending on how many seats established parties

:11:45. > :11:53.keep in the house committee may very well have a Republican Prime

:11:54. > :12:03.Minister, rather than having an adversarial MP, he may have someone

:12:04. > :12:10.who is relatively unknown outside of France, and a young woman. Contended

:12:11. > :12:16.that lost the Parez mayorship three years ago. She is a scientist and

:12:17. > :12:21.has been secretary of state. She would be an interesting coalition

:12:22. > :12:27.Prime Minister. Finally, Marine Le Pen, if she goes down to defeat a

:12:28. > :12:34.night, does she have the stomach and ambition, and the energy, to try it

:12:35. > :12:39.all again in 2022? She has all of that. The question is, would they

:12:40. > :12:44.let her? How badly would she lose? Her niece, now 27, a hard-working

:12:45. > :12:52.and steady person, unlike Marine Le Pen, who flunked her do paid --

:12:53. > :13:00.debate, her niece may decide that 2022 is her turn. Yet another Le

:13:01. > :13:04.Pen! All right, we will see. Just five years to wait, but only a few

:13:05. > :13:06.hours until the results of the election tonight.

:13:07. > :13:11.And we will get the exit polls here on the BBC. Given the exit polls

:13:12. > :13:15.will give as a pretty fair indication of what the result is

:13:16. > :13:19.going to be tonight. That will be on BBC news. That's all for today.

:13:20. > :13:22.The Daily Politics will cover every turn of this election campaign,

:13:23. > :13:26.And we're back here on BBC One at our usual time Next Sunday.

:13:27. > :13:29.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

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