:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes
:00:46. > :00:48.in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -
:00:49. > :00:55.Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax
:00:56. > :00:56.to fund public services, but will traders just
:00:57. > :01:00.Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,
:01:01. > :01:03.insists he can win this election - so which way will
:01:04. > :01:09.And in the East Midlands: group in Leeds.
:01:10. > :01:12.Will Jeremy Corbyn's policies prove a vote winner or vote loser
:01:13. > :01:16.And are young voters getting a raw deal from politicians?
:01:17. > :01:19.and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air
:01:20. > :01:26.pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically
:01:27. > :01:30.selected focus group of political pundits -
:01:31. > :01:32.they're not so much undecided as clueless -
:01:33. > :01:34.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting
:01:35. > :01:41.throughout the programme. So, we've got two new
:01:42. > :01:43.policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce
:01:44. > :01:46.a financial transaction tax if they win the general election
:01:47. > :01:48.and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax
:01:49. > :01:50.avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work
:01:51. > :01:53.with local authorities in England to build council houses
:01:54. > :01:55.with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy
:01:56. > :01:57."will help thousands of people get on the first rung
:01:58. > :02:10.of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I
:02:11. > :02:14.have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in
:02:15. > :02:18.pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as
:02:19. > :02:23.literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the
:02:24. > :02:28.Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it
:02:29. > :02:31.framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a
:02:32. > :02:36.sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a
:02:37. > :02:40.narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an
:02:41. > :02:47.argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour
:02:48. > :02:49.government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said
:02:50. > :02:53.right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a
:02:54. > :02:57.housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit
:02:58. > :03:01.George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get
:03:02. > :03:05.house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it
:03:06. > :03:10.works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes
:03:11. > :03:18.sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa
:03:19. > :03:22.May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly
:03:23. > :03:26.these two announcements have something in common which is that
:03:27. > :03:32.over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.
:03:33. > :03:36.Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't
:03:37. > :03:42.agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like
:03:43. > :03:48.a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might
:03:49. > :03:52.become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is
:03:53. > :03:56.difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what
:03:57. > :04:02.looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase
:04:03. > :04:06.orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will
:04:07. > :04:09.change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market
:04:10. > :04:14.value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily
:04:15. > :04:21.with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both
:04:22. > :04:25.would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and
:04:26. > :04:32.traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then
:04:33. > :04:40.councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the
:04:41. > :04:43.city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the
:04:44. > :04:47.Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is
:04:48. > :04:52.talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now
:04:53. > :04:59.Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is
:05:00. > :05:04.the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most
:05:05. > :05:10.interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC
:05:11. > :05:14.correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't
:05:15. > :05:19.worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising
:05:20. > :05:25.it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the
:05:26. > :05:31.macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very
:05:32. > :05:33.well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.
:05:34. > :05:35.Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.
:05:36. > :05:38.But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -
:05:39. > :05:41.that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media
:05:42. > :05:49.Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra
:05:50. > :05:52.?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social
:05:53. > :05:54.care over the lifetime of the next parliament,
:05:55. > :05:57.as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over
:05:58. > :06:04.The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,
:06:05. > :06:06.although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious
:06:07. > :06:08.about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence
:06:09. > :06:11.and security review immediately after the election.
:06:12. > :06:13.In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable
:06:14. > :06:16.management of migration", but it will not make "false
:06:17. > :06:22.Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,
:06:23. > :06:25.and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises
:06:26. > :06:28.for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.
:06:29. > :06:31.The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail
:06:32. > :06:38.and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one
:06:39. > :06:43.A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics
:06:44. > :06:46.as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss
:06:47. > :06:48.about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates
:06:49. > :06:50.told us they thought it had been deliberately
:06:51. > :06:54.leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting
:06:55. > :06:56.the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"
:06:57. > :07:00.And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,
:07:01. > :07:08.Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise
:07:09. > :07:13.the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out
:07:14. > :07:17.rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the
:07:18. > :07:22.railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three
:07:23. > :07:28.Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to
:07:29. > :07:35.comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what
:07:36. > :07:38.is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will
:07:39. > :07:43.nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking
:07:44. > :07:47.the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail
:07:48. > :07:52.will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail
:07:53. > :07:56.until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound
:07:57. > :08:03.very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National
:08:04. > :08:09.Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to
:08:10. > :08:13.nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you
:08:14. > :08:20.will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the
:08:21. > :08:23.National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just
:08:24. > :08:28.have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is
:08:29. > :08:32.it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that
:08:33. > :08:38.costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I
:08:39. > :08:43.would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform
:08:44. > :08:46.the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority
:08:47. > :08:51.stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion
:08:52. > :08:57.in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for
:08:58. > :09:01.reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not
:09:02. > :09:04.going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the
:09:05. > :09:10.distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising
:09:11. > :09:15.the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on
:09:16. > :09:18.Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent
:09:19. > :09:25.years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in
:09:26. > :09:31.answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for
:09:32. > :09:34.nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the
:09:35. > :09:39.energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big
:09:40. > :09:44.six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to
:09:45. > :09:51.be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,
:09:52. > :09:55.you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with
:09:56. > :10:02.the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty
:10:03. > :10:08.to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The
:10:09. > :10:12.Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British
:10:13. > :10:16.taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a
:10:17. > :10:20.long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a
:10:21. > :10:26.key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in
:10:27. > :10:28.our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households
:10:29. > :10:34.ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal
:10:35. > :10:38.providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John
:10:39. > :10:43.McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top
:10:44. > :10:48.of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You
:10:49. > :10:56.will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years
:10:57. > :11:02.after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing
:11:03. > :11:09.75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of
:11:10. > :11:12.capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our
:11:13. > :11:16.financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a
:11:17. > :11:19.state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we
:11:20. > :11:26.won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.
:11:27. > :11:31.How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75
:11:32. > :11:37.billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500
:11:38. > :11:41.billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure
:11:42. > :11:45.that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a
:11:46. > :11:49.figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial
:11:50. > :11:57.competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the
:11:58. > :12:01.CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250
:12:02. > :12:06.billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the
:12:07. > :12:11.fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a
:12:12. > :12:17.proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have
:12:18. > :12:21.just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will
:12:22. > :12:25.ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the
:12:26. > :12:33.parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state
:12:34. > :12:37.than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will
:12:38. > :12:41.ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came
:12:42. > :12:49.to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft
:12:50. > :12:53.manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going
:12:54. > :12:58.to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps
:12:59. > :13:01.we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for
:13:02. > :13:06.corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your
:13:07. > :13:10.predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end
:13:11. > :13:15.of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their
:13:16. > :13:19.behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or
:13:20. > :13:25.they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to
:13:26. > :13:28.make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and
:13:29. > :13:34.costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.
:13:35. > :13:37.We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes
:13:38. > :13:41.in market activity because that would be approved and direction to
:13:42. > :13:49.take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United
:13:50. > :13:52.States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are
:13:53. > :13:58.already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,
:13:59. > :14:03.if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number
:14:04. > :14:08.of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in
:14:09. > :14:12.the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting
:14:13. > :14:17.corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business
:14:18. > :14:20.investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent
:14:21. > :14:26.years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in
:14:27. > :14:30.things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce
:14:31. > :14:35.the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the
:14:36. > :14:42.Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the
:14:43. > :14:46.proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can
:14:47. > :14:52.invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.
:14:53. > :15:03.Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in
:15:04. > :15:09.?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a
:15:10. > :15:16.year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so
:15:17. > :15:20.what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it
:15:21. > :15:25.increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about
:15:26. > :15:29.cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to
:15:30. > :15:35.thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are
:15:36. > :15:42.industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate
:15:43. > :15:47.businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if
:15:48. > :15:54.we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am
:15:55. > :16:01.not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business
:16:02. > :16:05.tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to
:16:06. > :16:17.thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on
:16:18. > :16:21.business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own
:16:22. > :16:26.labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not
:16:27. > :16:32.want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding
:16:33. > :16:35.with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing
:16:36. > :16:39.global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.
:16:40. > :16:45.Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't
:16:46. > :16:51.cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought
:16:52. > :16:54.in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has
:16:55. > :16:59.changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that
:17:00. > :17:04.change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a
:17:05. > :17:08.lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We
:17:09. > :17:15.need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the
:17:16. > :17:20.computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other
:17:21. > :17:23.countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what
:17:24. > :17:31.other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at
:17:32. > :17:39.introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will
:17:40. > :17:43.be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at
:17:44. > :17:47.the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in
:17:48. > :17:52.2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are
:17:53. > :17:57.going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which
:17:58. > :18:01.generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a
:18:02. > :18:13.significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied
:18:14. > :18:17.at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the
:18:18. > :18:22.instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.
:18:23. > :18:26.This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in
:18:27. > :18:30.terms of financial services because there is more to keep these
:18:31. > :18:34.businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the
:18:35. > :18:38.economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we
:18:39. > :18:43.will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.
:18:44. > :18:48.And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.
:18:49. > :18:54.Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower
:18:55. > :19:02.than international standards, so why are so many global companies who
:19:03. > :19:06.make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of
:19:07. > :19:09.the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not
:19:10. > :19:16.answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the
:19:17. > :19:19.important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it
:19:20. > :19:25.encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may
:19:26. > :19:30.say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.
:19:31. > :19:39.But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and
:19:40. > :19:43.did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading
:19:44. > :19:52.internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our
:19:53. > :19:55.partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than
:19:56. > :20:00.they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,
:20:01. > :20:05.alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the
:20:06. > :20:09.people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the
:20:10. > :20:14.corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and
:20:15. > :20:19.more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a
:20:20. > :20:25.number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been
:20:26. > :20:27.able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the
:20:28. > :20:35.changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British
:20:36. > :20:38.companies, not from these international companies. It is
:20:39. > :20:43.because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good
:20:44. > :20:48.thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack
:20:49. > :20:52.down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused
:20:53. > :20:58.to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by
:20:59. > :21:03.cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking
:21:04. > :21:08.down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap
:21:09. > :21:14.is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.
:21:15. > :21:20.It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have
:21:21. > :21:24.brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax
:21:25. > :21:34.schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone
:21:35. > :21:37.from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the
:21:38. > :21:41.Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money
:21:42. > :21:47.on these companies while still having a competitive rate to
:21:48. > :21:53.encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to
:21:54. > :21:55.prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on
:21:56. > :22:01.average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms
:22:02. > :22:07.by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it
:22:08. > :22:12.that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,
:22:13. > :22:17.Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual
:22:18. > :22:26.income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,
:22:27. > :22:28.people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep
:22:29. > :22:32.emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years
:22:33. > :22:39.and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.
:22:40. > :22:45.Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.
:22:46. > :22:51.There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.
:22:52. > :22:55.1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their
:22:56. > :22:58.careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,
:22:59. > :23:03.investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,
:23:04. > :23:08.companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities
:23:09. > :23:12.that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about
:23:13. > :23:16.hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than
:23:17. > :23:21.they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives
:23:22. > :23:25.have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has
:23:26. > :23:30.shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of
:23:31. > :23:36.?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions
:23:37. > :23:41.kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one
:23:42. > :23:47.law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of
:23:48. > :23:51.all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare
:23:52. > :23:57.and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people
:23:58. > :24:04.in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that
:24:05. > :24:09.allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket
:24:10. > :24:15.to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,
:24:16. > :24:21.among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as
:24:22. > :24:28.we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen
:24:29. > :24:31.millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these
:24:32. > :24:36.questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just
:24:37. > :24:40.about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and
:24:41. > :24:45.below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We
:24:46. > :24:49.have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone
:24:50. > :24:56.up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages
:24:57. > :25:00.will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for
:25:01. > :25:05.housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,
:25:06. > :25:10.social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the
:25:11. > :25:14.associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4
:25:15. > :25:21.billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you
:25:22. > :25:24.get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local
:25:25. > :25:32.authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.
:25:33. > :25:35.I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at
:25:36. > :25:41.100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at
:25:42. > :25:46.you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the
:25:47. > :25:50.local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is
:25:51. > :25:54.what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the
:25:55. > :25:57.money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the
:25:58. > :26:03.expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the
:26:04. > :26:09.housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how
:26:10. > :26:15.many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on
:26:16. > :26:20.it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what
:26:21. > :26:23.the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities
:26:24. > :26:27.who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.
:26:28. > :26:31.What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,
:26:32. > :26:35.they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,
:26:36. > :26:40.the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with
:26:41. > :26:44.them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I
:26:45. > :26:49.want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what
:26:50. > :26:53.the target and timescale is, and this government, under which
:26:54. > :26:58.affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million
:26:59. > :27:04.families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your
:27:05. > :27:08.record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what
:27:09. > :27:13.we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a
:27:14. > :27:20.strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This
:27:21. > :27:27.is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,
:27:28. > :27:32.75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.
:27:33. > :27:35.That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the
:27:36. > :27:47.industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in
:27:48. > :27:51.2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000
:27:52. > :27:59.affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.
:28:00. > :28:07.So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have
:28:08. > :28:12.delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour
:28:13. > :28:16.did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,
:28:17. > :28:17.working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in
:28:18. > :28:21.their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit
:28:22. > :28:25.of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those
:28:26. > :28:27.around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got
:28:28. > :28:31.three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those
:28:32. > :28:32.fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation
:28:33. > :28:37.YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders
:28:38. > :28:39.will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters
:28:40. > :28:49.of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home
:28:50. > :28:54.to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited
:28:55. > :28:57.from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't
:28:58. > :29:00.decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,
:29:01. > :29:03.two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up
:29:04. > :29:10.political press at Downing Street under David Cameron
:29:11. > :29:16.and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron
:29:17. > :29:18.and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself
:29:19. > :29:22.as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it
:29:23. > :29:42.came about who you want,
:29:43. > :29:46.if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus
:29:47. > :29:50.groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,
:29:51. > :29:52.even though some of those same people have been saying we quite
:29:53. > :29:55.like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's
:29:56. > :29:59.going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive
:30:00. > :30:01.manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,
:30:02. > :30:05.that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that
:30:06. > :30:07.you don't recognise? After a little warm up,
:30:08. > :30:09.the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong
:30:10. > :30:16.woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,
:30:17. > :30:19.when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,
:30:20. > :30:21.here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what
:30:22. > :30:24.are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,
:30:25. > :30:28.it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's
:30:29. > :30:37.actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership
:30:38. > :30:50.in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's
:30:51. > :30:54.the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one
:30:55. > :31:04.for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad
:31:05. > :31:06.as strong and stable, but it will probably get
:31:07. > :31:09.on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today
:31:10. > :31:19.and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my
:31:20. > :31:27.question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,
:31:28. > :31:30.we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table
:31:31. > :31:33.at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,
:31:34. > :31:36.we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control
:31:37. > :31:38.and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought
:31:39. > :31:43.he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,
:31:44. > :31:52.hovering around, skirting around and that's the second
:31:53. > :31:54.time I've seen a similar interview with the question
:31:55. > :31:56.being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have
:31:57. > :31:58.any confidence with him You think you are going up
:31:59. > :32:02.against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand
:32:03. > :32:04.up for us? When you are in negotiations,
:32:05. > :32:09.you need to be tough. And actually is right
:32:10. > :32:11.to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing
:32:12. > :32:13.something for the country. There's a reason for talking
:32:14. > :32:15.about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future
:32:16. > :32:17.of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen
:32:18. > :32:22.to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show
:32:23. > :32:27.and in the news. She attracts the public better
:32:28. > :32:34.than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question
:32:35. > :32:36.in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa
:32:37. > :32:43.May is an animal. So, in your minds,
:32:44. > :32:46.what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think
:32:47. > :33:00.she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's
:33:01. > :33:06.superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies
:33:07. > :33:22.are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak
:33:23. > :33:25.and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch
:33:26. > :33:27.you by surprise if you're What do you take away
:33:28. > :33:35.from what you saw then, and what message would you send back
:33:36. > :33:38.to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see
:33:39. > :33:41.Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,
:33:42. > :33:44.but you don't need to be liked to be elected,
:33:45. > :33:46.because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future
:33:47. > :33:48.and your security. I think what I also take out
:33:49. > :33:51.of that focus group, was it was a group of floating
:33:52. > :33:54.voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no
:33:55. > :33:57.huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ
:33:58. > :34:00.would be stick to the plan. I thought the response
:34:01. > :34:03.to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't
:34:04. > :34:05.particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her
:34:06. > :34:10.about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party
:34:11. > :34:14.want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks
:34:15. > :34:16.that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,
:34:17. > :34:22.what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise
:34:23. > :34:24.the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform
:34:25. > :34:31.out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those
:34:32. > :34:33.characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be
:34:34. > :34:36.over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact
:34:37. > :34:38.that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go
:34:39. > :34:41.into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American
:34:42. > :34:48.political consultant For the sake of this discussion,
:34:49. > :34:55.assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for
:34:56. > :35:01.Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious
:35:02. > :35:05.collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether
:35:06. > :35:09.you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where
:35:10. > :35:14.they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to
:35:15. > :35:18.watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more
:35:19. > :35:22.substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality
:35:23. > :35:27.and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because
:35:28. > :35:37.Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see
:35:38. > :35:45.on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language
:35:46. > :35:49.she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't
:35:50. > :35:53.see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her
:35:54. > :35:58.campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy
:35:59. > :36:03.because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary
:36:04. > :36:08.Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,
:36:09. > :36:14.the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I
:36:15. > :36:22.was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC
:36:23. > :36:27.had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can
:36:28. > :36:32.assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had
:36:33. > :36:39.but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other
:36:40. > :36:44.than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you
:36:45. > :36:50.will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour
:36:51. > :36:53.will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of
:36:54. > :36:57.number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of
:36:58. > :37:03.soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable
:37:04. > :37:06.majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British
:37:07. > :37:12.people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will
:37:13. > :37:17.have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice
:37:18. > :37:21.of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British
:37:22. > :37:25.politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there
:37:26. > :37:29.is still a significant percentage of the British population that once
:37:30. > :37:38.someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.
:37:39. > :37:41.I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and
:37:42. > :37:44.I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a
:37:45. > :37:51.population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.
:37:52. > :37:53.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:54. > :37:55.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:56. > :38:10.Do young people hold the key to the election
:38:11. > :38:16.You've got to realise that the young people are the ones that are at very
:38:17. > :38:19.rarely represented by the political parties.
:38:20. > :38:25.And it will be eyes down in this East Midlands
:38:26. > :38:28.constituency come polling day, with a difference of just 41 votes
:38:29. > :38:33.Derby North has the smallest majority in the country.
:38:34. > :38:37.My guests this week, Jessica Lee, was a Conservative MP for Erewash
:38:38. > :38:41.for five years before standing down in 2015 and Graham Allen,
:38:42. > :38:45.has been a Labour MP for Nottingham North for 30
:38:46. > :38:47.years, but is stepping down at this election.
:38:48. > :38:50.We'll also be joined by the Lib Dems and the Greens.
:38:51. > :38:53.Welcome to you both and first let's get your reaction to some of this
:38:54. > :38:59.The Conservative's big announcement is the promise
:39:00. > :39:04.With hundreds of millions of pounds invested,
:39:05. > :39:15.but we need 20,000 homes a year in the East Midlands alone.
:39:16. > :39:21.I think it's a fantastic headline this morning. I'm glad it's come up
:39:22. > :39:26.this early in the election campaign as well, because it has to be a
:39:27. > :39:30.priority. It's not just the homes that are needed and going to bring
:39:31. > :39:33.so much future for people, but it's the job and opportunities that go
:39:34. > :39:38.with that. In the East Midlands, we have a proud history of building
:39:39. > :39:44.apprenticeships in Syria. Think there will be opportunities in
:39:45. > :39:51.wholesale, not just for the families and people moving in, but for
:39:52. > :39:54.businesses. Michael Farren was being very big about whether that would
:39:55. > :40:03.actually be extra cash for this policy. You'll know more than I do
:40:04. > :40:06.at this stage. People are interested in costings. We have seen when
:40:07. > :40:12.Labour got into difficulty with Diane Abbott. I think people do want
:40:13. > :40:15.to know. I think the emphasis will be on the Conservatives to explain
:40:16. > :40:20.how this is going to be funded and I hope they are able to set that as
:40:21. > :40:23.possible. The manifestos will be out next week.
:40:24. > :40:29.It's another example though of the Conservatives moving
:40:30. > :40:35.You think they'd have the numbers and know what they're doing on
:40:36. > :40:39.council housing after seven years in Government. They're making something
:40:40. > :40:45.up, probably because Labour was very clear in its announcement that there
:40:46. > :40:48.would be 100,000 extra new councils. Frankly, central Government, whether
:40:49. > :40:52.it's Labour or Conservative telling us what we have to do locally, you
:40:53. > :40:54.have to listen to people locally. There are places where we can
:40:55. > :40:56.council housing. They're clearly targeting Labour
:40:57. > :41:06.voters and that could cause Labourer boaters are not stupid,
:41:07. > :41:10.they can see through this. I think what Labour reporters while we think
:41:11. > :41:15.that the country is that they should leave it to the localities. My
:41:16. > :41:20.constituency that I am now leaving doesn't need any more housing. It's
:41:21. > :41:24.90% more housing already. We need more balanced community. Other areas
:41:25. > :41:28.can take more housing. We've had to be localities and not have Labour or
:41:29. > :41:29.Conservative telling us what to do from Whitehall.
:41:30. > :41:32.One big question that could have a major influence on this
:41:33. > :41:34.election is how many young people will turn out to vote.
:41:35. > :41:36.There's been growing concern at their lack
:41:37. > :41:38.of engagement in politics, but tens of thousands have
:41:39. > :41:40.rushed to register in time for the general election.
:41:41. > :41:42.Here's our political editor, Tony Roe.
:41:43. > :41:45.On Friday morning, know that you are to blame for what happened.
:41:46. > :41:47.A year ago, this student was in Ashby
:41:48. > :41:49.telling Boris Johnson what he thought about Brexit.
:41:50. > :41:52.At 17, Will Taylor had no other say than that.
:41:53. > :41:58.But now he's old enough to vote in his first general election.
:41:59. > :42:01.I'm lucky I've been brought up in a background where politics
:42:02. > :42:04.But I don't think in everyone's house...
:42:05. > :42:09.I think in-school current affairs maybe should be on
:42:10. > :42:12.There is concern from the Electoral Commission that
:42:13. > :42:14.three out of ten 18 to 24-year-olds are not
:42:15. > :42:15.yet registered to vote and
:42:16. > :42:18.many may have fallen off the electoral rolls
:42:19. > :42:23.since the system was changed to meet each individual register.
:42:24. > :42:26.Since last summer's EU referendum, three quarters of a
:42:27. > :42:31.There is concern not enough of them have
:42:32. > :42:40.And they've only got one week left to do it.
:42:41. > :42:42.What we'll do is we'll head up into the polling
:42:43. > :42:45.There have always been young political activists.
:42:46. > :42:46.These University of Leicester students are
:42:47. > :42:49.giving up their spare time to campaign for the Conservatives.
:42:50. > :42:51.Whether it's just reading the news occasionally,
:42:52. > :42:53.or seeing the news on Twitter in the morning,
:42:54. > :42:55.it's vital that young people get involved in politics.
:42:56. > :42:58.It's just important to young people as it is to all age
:42:59. > :43:02.Them being the youngest, they are going to love the most.
:43:03. > :43:05.So they need to be involved in politics,
:43:06. > :43:09.Out on the streets of Nottingham, it's young Labour activists and
:43:10. > :43:12.the polls show new voters are more likely to vote Labour.
:43:13. > :43:14.The party see getting that support as a way of
:43:15. > :43:17.Even if you're not going to vote for a party
:43:18. > :43:19.that I would support, it still critical that
:43:20. > :43:23.And actually, you know, the more young people are involved, all
:43:24. > :43:26.parties, not just Labour, all parties will have to listen to them
:43:27. > :43:30.and maybe reconsider some of their policies and target some
:43:31. > :43:33.of those policies to win those younger voters over.
:43:34. > :43:35.You know you're getting old when politicians look younger.
:43:36. > :43:38.In Mansfield, Katie Atherton is the director of the growing media
:43:39. > :43:41.She's been a Labour district councillor since early 20s,
:43:42. > :43:50.Politicians, she says, get too much of use.
:43:51. > :43:53.People don't want to say anything wrong or
:43:54. > :43:58.And if you kind of mail your colours to the flag and the, "Well, do you
:43:59. > :44:02.know what, I'm from this party, I'm from this party and that's me."
:44:03. > :44:03.You are 100% going to get people that
:44:04. > :44:07.So, what about those who don't engage with politics
:44:08. > :44:10.We asked the Prime Minister, who was campaigning this
:44:11. > :44:13.Opportunities that they've got for the future, our
:44:14. > :44:14.future prosperity, depend on what happens over
:44:15. > :44:18.That is about getting Brexit right, it's also about taking the country
:44:19. > :44:22.So, I would say this is an important election, because it
:44:23. > :44:25.It matters for them because it's about
:44:26. > :44:28.The priorities for each generation are likely to be
:44:29. > :44:33.different and will affect how they vote.
:44:34. > :44:35.Labour offer things for young people.
:44:36. > :44:37.They don't offer much and people do see it the lesser of
:44:38. > :44:42.two evils, but I struggle to find, and I have looked, I struggle to
:44:43. > :44:44.find what Conservatives do offer for young people.
:44:45. > :44:47.Well, it's the party of aspiration, the party of bettering
:44:48. > :44:49.yourself, the party of low tax and the
:44:50. > :44:55.Of course, being registered to vote is one
:44:56. > :44:58.thing, another is connecting with young people enough to get them out
:44:59. > :45:02.of their homes to the polling stations.
:45:03. > :45:04.We're joined now by Mathew Hulbert a Liberal Democrat in
:45:05. > :45:06.Leicestershire, who's the chair of the party's Friends
:45:07. > :45:15.We've spoken to young people who voted Lib Dem
:45:16. > :45:19.in 2010 and wouldn't vote again due to your infamous U-turn on tuition
:45:20. > :45:20.fees when you were part of the coalition Government.
:45:21. > :45:22.That's still your biggest problem in getting them
:45:23. > :45:34.It is and it wasn't our finest hour. I voted against the rising in
:45:35. > :45:38.the other way and the party did that the other way and the party did that
:45:39. > :45:44.in Coalition. All we can do now is try and say to young people, yes,
:45:45. > :45:49.that was a mistake, I admit it was a mistake, but the future now is all
:45:50. > :45:52.about Brexit and many young people are against Brexit and the Liberal
:45:53. > :45:56.Democrats are the only mainstream party that are fundamentally against
:45:57. > :46:01.Brexit, that the we accept the original result, but that set us off
:46:02. > :46:05.on a direction of travel, we don't know from the Prime Minister rarely
:46:06. > :46:10.any details in terms of this negotiation that she's going to do
:46:11. > :46:13.with the European leaders. The older generations that predominately
:46:14. > :46:18.bloated for Brexit, I'm afraid will be those that have to live with it
:46:19. > :46:21.for the shortest amount of time. Those that have to live with it are
:46:22. > :46:25.those young people and I would say to them whatever mistakes by party
:46:26. > :46:30.app made in the past, if you're against Brexit, your only option is
:46:31. > :46:34.to vote for the Liberal Democrats. Labour are abolishing tuition fees
:46:35. > :46:36.and of their manifesto is to be believed, they're hoping to cash in
:46:37. > :46:38.believed, they're hoping to cash in on that.
:46:39. > :46:40.Katie Atherton, who was in Tony's piece went
:46:41. > :46:42.into politics and is now stepping down because of the abuse,
:46:43. > :46:45.not just on social media, she found the whole process
:46:46. > :46:47.of politics in Mansfield very gladitorial.
:46:48. > :46:57.Politics is a tough old game. I was a councillor for four years. When
:46:58. > :47:00.you're a politician, an elected representative, an MP or a
:47:01. > :47:04.counsellor, you have to make decisions on popular agree with them
:47:05. > :47:09.and some people don't. Some people are a tad rude in their opposition
:47:10. > :47:12.to what you do. To a certain extent, you had to dig on the chin, because
:47:13. > :47:18.get if you stand for election. But get if you stand for election. But
:47:19. > :47:23.by the same token, I think social media, you know, I'm on Twitter,
:47:24. > :47:27.most of us are. You are. It's very easy to be angry about something and
:47:28. > :47:31.type it in and it sent away. Instead, you should have a breath,
:47:32. > :47:34.have a thought, think about whether it I would say that the person to
:47:35. > :47:41.their face, if not, don't type it. Don't be know of those who media. --
:47:42. > :47:44.Maybe it's not in the interests of Conservatives
:47:45. > :47:48.to encourage young people to vote - the younger you are, the more likely
:47:49. > :47:54.That might be right, but I've always been consistent on this. I feel very
:47:55. > :47:56.committed about encouraging people to register to vote from the
:47:57. > :48:00.earliest opportunity, from the earliest possible age and to make
:48:01. > :48:04.sure that people do take an interest in vote. I would say that the
:48:05. > :48:07.earlier you take an interest, I would like to think that the
:48:08. > :48:13.Conservative policies would appeal. Obviously that the policy of the
:48:14. > :48:16.Conservative politicians. Be that as it may, this country is about the
:48:17. > :48:22.future. You're voting for the next five years. Anyone coming to the
:48:23. > :48:26.voting age now, there is such an important five years coming up. I
:48:27. > :48:27.don't just mean Brexit, but domestic policy as well. This is their
:48:28. > :48:32.You stood down after just one term, in a way you've walked away
:48:33. > :48:36.from a career in politics too, were you disillusioned?
:48:37. > :48:42.I hope not, no. I think public service is a brilliant thing to do.
:48:43. > :48:46.It's a real privilege and pleasure. I also don't think that anyone
:48:47. > :48:50.should be compelled to do it for whatever reason. It is about choice.
:48:51. > :48:54.I think that's a really important message as well. For me it was about
:48:55. > :48:58.serving my community, doing the best I possibly could and also for my
:48:59. > :49:02.party and my country by the time I was there. I would say make sure you
:49:03. > :49:05.vote and if you want to, make sure you stand. How do we make this
:49:06. > :49:08.In the 1992 election, 63% of 18-24-year-olds voted.
:49:09. > :49:11.In the last election it had dropped to 43%.
:49:12. > :49:17.We all know how important this boat is, how are you going to bring it
:49:18. > :49:21.home? And standing down whilst I still have some of my youth left. We
:49:22. > :49:26.need to make politics more user-friendly generally. Above all
:49:27. > :49:31.for women and also for young people. That includes things like getting
:49:32. > :49:35.people involved, let's be a bit tough on this. Let's say that if we
:49:36. > :49:41.can drop the voting age to 16, which I'm in favour of, then they should
:49:42. > :49:46.be mandated. You are going to go and vote even if used by all your ballot
:49:47. > :49:49.paper. That's something I have campaigned for for a long time,
:49:50. > :49:56.online voting, is a young people don't have to take a day of college
:49:57. > :50:00.or work. That also is that this idea that somehow young people are
:50:01. > :50:04.different to everyone else in the issues they care about, whether it's
:50:05. > :50:09.the environment, global warming, the state of our food, the state of
:50:10. > :50:14.globe you multinationals evading tax. The idea that young people
:50:15. > :50:17.don't have a job to go to, that we just throw people out of school at
:50:18. > :50:21.the end of the day to fend for themselves. These are issues that
:50:22. > :50:25.are of real concern to everyone, above all young people. We need to
:50:26. > :50:32.respect that by making sure that we also give them the right mechanics
:50:33. > :50:36.allow them to use the voting system. Do you support mandatory voting? As
:50:37. > :50:40.long as it was an option of none of the above. You would have to have
:50:41. > :50:44.that for mandatory voting. I think Graham is absolutely right, that
:50:45. > :50:50.young people care about a range of issues. Youth clubs, run by councils
:50:51. > :50:55.have been cut up and down the country. By local councils. But also
:50:56. > :51:02.when you say to local councils, why have you felt you need to do this,
:51:03. > :51:06.they blame the Budget from central Government. It's a vulnerable young
:51:07. > :51:12.people that suffer when these services go. It's shameful. There is
:51:13. > :51:18.some hope. Almost 60,000 young people registered foot to vote. That
:51:19. > :51:21.is phenomenal and there's still time to do that before this election. The
:51:22. > :51:26.fact that some young people in Scotland can vote in some elections
:51:27. > :51:29.but not in others, giving people the mandate, the franchise and then
:51:30. > :51:33.taking it away from them, shameful again. Thank you very much.
:51:34. > :51:35.It's the most marginal constituency in England.
:51:36. > :51:37.Just a few dozen votes separated the Conservatives and Labour
:51:38. > :51:40.in 2015 in Derby North, with the Tories coming out
:51:41. > :51:44.Now the Labour candidate is back, convinced that a full-blooded
:51:45. > :51:46.backing of Jeremy Corbyn's policies will win the seat.
:51:47. > :52:04.Not even a general election gets in the way of
:52:05. > :52:06.bingo at the Jubilee Club in Chadderton.
:52:07. > :52:08.But what will the voters be focusing on when they decide who
:52:09. > :52:17.It's only going to get worse, isn't it?
:52:18. > :52:18.The NHS is stretched, schools are stretched,
:52:19. > :52:30.Derby North is a tricky constituency to predict.
:52:31. > :52:32.It's gone back and forth between the Conservatives and Labour.
:52:33. > :52:34.Throughout the 1980s, it was held by the
:52:35. > :52:38.And under Tony Blair, Labour won it back and clung on here until
:52:39. > :52:41.At the last election, it was the only seat
:52:42. > :52:44.in the East Midlands to change, swinging back to the
:52:45. > :52:47.It's all about celebrating what is great in
:52:48. > :52:50.the city of Derby, but also recognising what it is that we need
:52:51. > :52:53.And two years just hasn't been enough.
:52:54. > :52:57.I've been doing lots and lots of things, but I would just
:52:58. > :52:59.like to have more time to do even more.
:53:00. > :53:02.You would expect that, but there are other
:53:03. > :53:03.things as well around education, mental health.
:53:04. > :53:06.Very, very close to my heart and I'm just hoping to be
:53:07. > :53:18.part of a Government that does so much for mental health.
:53:19. > :53:20.So, what will happen this time around?
:53:21. > :53:22.Well, it certainly won't be victory for
:53:23. > :53:26.Instead choosing to support the Labour candidate, who they say
:53:27. > :53:28.It's probably the best manifesto we've
:53:29. > :53:32.As you look back at the 1970s, working-class people as I
:53:33. > :53:35.was then as a 19-year-old bricklayer, I was earning enough
:53:36. > :53:37.money to buy a brand-new three bedroomed house in a desirable
:53:38. > :53:48.That's impossible in this day and age.
:53:49. > :53:51.We've got people sleeping on the street, we've got
:53:52. > :53:53.over 1 million people reliant on food banks, zero our contracts,
:53:54. > :53:59.A Labour victory here would be a pathway to a Labour
:54:00. > :54:01.Government which would transform the lives of people in this city.
:54:02. > :54:03.Ukip say they need to be in Parliament so
:54:04. > :54:10.We have got to be there to make sure we get
:54:11. > :54:11.the right result in the
:54:12. > :54:15.She's already changed her mind about when there was going
:54:16. > :54:18.to be an election, she's already changed her mind about whether or
:54:19. > :54:19.not going to increase national insurance contributions.
:54:20. > :54:22.So, what's to stop her now changing her mind on
:54:23. > :54:25.There are many people here who know how important
:54:26. > :54:27.it is for businesses like Rolls-Royce, Bombardier, like
:54:28. > :54:29.Toyota locally to have access into the single market.
:54:30. > :54:31.People have to consider what is most important to
:54:32. > :54:33.them and whether it's the NHS or whether it
:54:34. > :54:34.is her relationship with
:54:35. > :54:36.Europe or whether it's funding for education.
:54:37. > :54:40.It's eyes down for the general election in this marginal
:54:41. > :54:43.If history is anything to go by, whoever wins here can look
:54:44. > :54:49.forward to a full house in Parliament.
:54:50. > :54:51.We're joined by Sue Mallender from the Green Party.
:54:52. > :54:53.Sue Mallender, it's interesting that in Derby North you're not
:54:54. > :54:55.standing to boost the chances of the Labour candidate.
:54:56. > :54:58.And in Mansfield you're stepping aside to let Labour hoover up
:54:59. > :55:19.We think we are giving them the chance to have their say, but
:55:20. > :55:23.unfortunately it is a green vote in those particular constituencies is
:55:24. > :55:27.not going to be successful. There are obviously constituencies in the
:55:28. > :55:30.country where a green vote will be more successful and what we would
:55:31. > :55:34.like to see as those other parties cooperating with us so that they
:55:35. > :55:38.stand down, because I understand we stood down in 22 different
:55:39. > :55:43.constituencies over across the country. That is because we want to
:55:44. > :55:48.give people a chance to vote for those policies, because we think it
:55:49. > :55:59.is policies not personalities that are important in elections we know
:56:00. > :56:02.that there is more sharing in the latest Labour manifesto. There are
:56:03. > :56:06.things we feel are important. With fracking and other aspects of the
:56:07. > :56:12.environment, although a green vote is the only one if you are concerned
:56:13. > :56:17.that the environment. Would Labour it stands down in favour of the
:56:18. > :56:23.Green candidate? What we are hearing is this noise that politics,
:56:24. > :56:27.Parliament isn't fit for purpose and above all our electoral system isn't
:56:28. > :56:31.fit for purpose. All of those nonconservative parties will have to
:56:32. > :56:35.consider proper alliances very, very seriously. The way to do that is not
:56:36. > :56:40.just moments before the general election, which incidentally, we
:56:41. > :56:48.promise was fixed term and that was done away with by Theresa May. That
:56:49. > :56:51.was to create a platform, an anti-conservative platform that
:56:52. > :56:56.Labour, liberals, the Greens and others agreed to support each
:56:57. > :56:59.other's that we get a majority. When you got the majority, only then are
:57:00. > :57:03.you going to be able to change the electoral system to a fear one so
:57:04. > :57:07.that we hear the voices of the Greens, we hear the voices of Ukip
:57:08. > :57:11.and the Lib Dems properly and we form alliances then to not have a
:57:12. > :57:17.winner takes all system which is bad for all.
:57:18. > :57:18.Jessica Lee, Theresa May famously described the idea
:57:19. > :57:20.of the anti-Conservative parties aligning as a
:57:21. > :57:23."coalition of chaos" but an alliance of all the opposition parties
:57:24. > :57:30.manipulate voters are not giving manipulate voters are not giving
:57:31. > :57:36.them toys like this. You were in an them toys like this. You were in an
:57:37. > :57:42.alliance for five years. You were in an alliance with the Liberal
:57:43. > :57:48.Democrats. No, that was not. If I could just finished. Knee-high days
:57:49. > :57:51.of the Labour Government with Prime Minister Blair, I don't remember
:57:52. > :57:53.then that Labour suggesting they have alliances. The British people
:57:54. > :57:56.don't like being told what to do and don't like being told what to do and
:57:57. > :57:59.the like choice. I think there's going to be quite a bit of
:58:00. > :58:03.scepticism and disappointment by people that do support a little
:58:04. > :58:07.parties if they're not given a choice. I think political parties
:58:08. > :58:16.should field as many political parties as possible. I agree with
:58:17. > :58:19.that. What we don't want is that. We were the opposite. Our party voted
:58:20. > :58:24.at conference because all our policies are voted at conference by
:58:25. > :58:30.the people who are members. The only reason we want form alliances is so
:58:31. > :58:32.that we can then have another election on proportional
:58:33. > :58:37.representation is about people's voices are actually heard, because
:58:38. > :58:45.no people that vote, their voices are interred. 48% of people voted
:58:46. > :58:50.against coming out of the European Union. Their voices are into being
:58:51. > :58:54.handed the moment. Under the Coalition Government, there was a
:58:55. > :58:58.referendum about changing our voting patterns and people don't want to do
:58:59. > :59:02.that. I do think it's better to be consistent about this and I hope the
:59:03. > :59:05.Conservative Party do remain consistent about this, which is to
:59:06. > :59:08.give every constituency as many different political parties as
:59:09. > :59:13.possible and give people choice instead of trying to manipulate
:59:14. > :59:17.voters. Whether you win under any system, it's a good system. That is
:59:18. > :59:21.needed. We all know there is a better way of doing our politics
:59:22. > :59:26.than winner takes all and shouting at each other at Prime Minister's
:59:27. > :59:31.Questions and having an all powerful Prime Minister who isn't directly
:59:32. > :59:35.elected. They should Alexa locally and not have some sort of surrogate
:59:36. > :59:39.for the Prime Minister. That way you have a strong Parliament that will
:59:40. > :59:42.hold to account a properly elected Government. To get to that position
:59:43. > :59:46.you have to do is the electoral position. You will not change under
:59:47. > :59:49.the current system. That will require everybody getting together
:59:50. > :59:56.and putting our country and our politics ahead of pure policies and
:59:57. > :59:59.party games. Are you worried that green edges will not be heard in all
:00:00. > :00:02.of this? We know that we have some of the worst air pollution in our
:00:03. > :00:05.countries and fracking is looming on the horizon. Lots of applications
:00:06. > :00:12.you in the East Midlands. Early stages. The vote on proportional
:00:13. > :00:16.representation was not a vote on that. AV is not in anybody's
:00:17. > :00:20.proportional representation which they have in virtually all other
:00:21. > :00:23.countries in the world. Onto the green issues, people have been
:00:24. > :00:27.talking a lot young people and certainly this is something that's
:00:28. > :00:32.important for young people. We are the only party that believes that we
:00:33. > :00:35.have one planet which is a centre in fact, where the other parties in to
:00:36. > :00:41.think that we have three or four to live on and saw the environment is a
:00:42. > :00:45.vital important fact. We need to have that discussed and sadly it is
:00:46. > :00:47.not discussed very much in the selection.
:00:48. > :00:49.That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.
:00:50. > :00:51.Thanks to all our guests, Jessica Lee, Graham Allen,
:00:52. > :00:59.Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run out
:01:00. > :01:06.of time. On Thursday nominations closed
:01:07. > :01:11.in the 650 parliamentary seats across the country,
:01:12. > :01:13.so now we know exactly who's We've been analysing the parties'
:01:14. > :01:20.candidates to find out what they might tell us
:01:21. > :01:23.about the make-up of the House Well, we know Theresa May is
:01:24. > :01:28.committed to delivering Brexit and analysis of Conservative
:01:29. > :01:33.candidates has shown that in their top 100 target seats,
:01:34. > :01:35.37 candidates supported leave during last year's referendum
:01:36. > :01:43.campaign and 20 supported remain; 43
:01:44. > :01:45.have not made public In the last parliament,
:01:46. > :01:51.the vast majority of Labour MPs were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how
:01:52. > :01:53.supportive are Labour Well, of 50 of Labour's
:01:54. > :02:00.top 100 target seats 17 candidates have expressed
:02:01. > :02:02.support for Mr Corbyn. 20 candidates supported Owen Smith
:02:03. > :02:07.in last year's leadership contest or have expressed
:02:08. > :02:11.anti-Corbyn sentiment, and If they won those,
:02:12. > :02:17.the Labour benches would be marginally more sympathetic
:02:18. > :02:19.to Mr Corbyn than they are now. What do the figures tell us
:02:20. > :02:22.about where the other Well, the Lib Dems have decided not
:02:23. > :02:26.to stand against the Greens in Brighton Pavilion,
:02:27. > :02:27.and are fielding 629 candidates this year -
:02:28. > :02:30.that's two fewer than 2015. The number of Ukip candidates has
:02:31. > :02:34.fallen dramatically. They are standing in 247 fewer
:02:35. > :02:40.constituencies than 2015, throwing their support behind
:02:41. > :02:42.solidly pro-Brexit Tories in some areas such as Lewes
:02:43. > :02:47.and Norfolk North. The Greens are fielding
:02:48. > :02:50.103 fewer candidates than at the last election,
:02:51. > :03:01.standing down to help other progressive candidates
:03:02. > :03:15.in some places. The most liking statistic is the
:03:16. > :03:21.demise in Ukip candidates, is this their swansong? And I think so. It
:03:22. > :03:28.is remarkable how few Ukip candidates are standing. It is hard
:03:29. > :03:38.to see they will suddenly revive in the next couple of years. I think
:03:39. > :03:43.this is probably the end. Frank Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of
:03:44. > :03:45.the left was a feature of this election, but also there is the
:03:46. > :03:49.consolidation of the right, and if you take the things together that
:03:50. > :03:53.could explain why the polls are where they are. Absolutely, that's
:03:54. > :03:59.precisely what happened at the start of the 1980s, the right was
:04:00. > :04:05.incredibly united and that's when we started talking about majorities of
:04:06. > :04:12.over 100 or so. No matter what the size of Theresa May's majority, it
:04:13. > :04:17.will be the total collapse of Ukip, but not just because we are now
:04:18. > :04:21.leaving the EU and that was their only reason for being, but a whole
:04:22. > :04:30.lot of people voted for Ukip because they felt the Tories were no longer
:04:31. > :04:33.listening. Theresa May has given the impression that she is listening,
:04:34. > :04:42.and that is the biggest possible thing that could happen to the Tory
:04:43. > :04:46.vote. Fragmentation of the left, consolidation of the right? It's one
:04:47. > :04:51.of the lessons that is never learnt, it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't
:04:52. > :04:55.take much for the whole thing to fracture so now you have on the
:04:56. > :05:01.centre-left the SNP, the Labour Party, the Greens, the Liberal
:05:02. > :05:06.Democrats all competing for the same votes and when you have, fleetingly
:05:07. > :05:12.perhaps, large numbers coalescing on the right in one party, there is
:05:13. > :05:16.only going to be one outcome. It happens regularly. It doesn't mean
:05:17. > :05:21.the Tories haven't got their own fragility. Two years ago, David
:05:22. > :05:25.Cameron and George Osborne the dominant figures, neither are in
:05:26. > :05:30.Parliament now which is a symptom of the fragility this election is
:05:31. > :05:35.disguising. Mrs May's position in a way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in
:05:36. > :05:40.the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in
:05:41. > :05:43.France, I won't be outflanked on the right, so the National Front didn't
:05:44. > :05:48.get through either timed he ran to the second round on like this time,
:05:49. > :05:54.and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be outflanked Iver and as a result has
:05:55. > :05:58.seen off right flank. And also she is looking to the left as well with
:05:59. > :06:01.some of the state interventions. What was interesting about the
:06:02. > :06:05.analysis you showed a few minutes ago was the number of Tory
:06:06. > :06:10.candidates who have apparently not declared which way they voted in the
:06:11. > :06:14.referendum, and you would have thought if this election was all
:06:15. > :06:18.about Brexit, as some would claim, that would become an unsustainable
:06:19. > :06:23.position, and actually more it's about leadership. But the point that
:06:24. > :06:29.I'm now hearing from a number of Labour candidates that they are
:06:30. > :06:35.seeing Tory leaflets that don't even have the Tory candidate's name on
:06:36. > :06:39.them, it is just about Theresa May. I am glad they are keeping to the
:06:40. > :06:43.law because by law they have to put it on. It has been harder for some
:06:44. > :06:51.of the smaller parties too because of the speed of the election being
:06:52. > :06:56.called. We have the manifesto is coming out this week. I think Labour
:06:57. > :07:01.Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet sure when the Tories will bring
:07:02. > :07:06.bears out. I suggest one thing, it will at least for people like me
:07:07. > :07:13.bring an end to the question you will have to wait for the manifesto.
:07:14. > :07:22.And Rebecca Long baby will never have that excuse again, isn't it
:07:23. > :07:26.wonderful! She is not the only one. When you are trying to take the
:07:27. > :07:32.north and Midlands from Labour, I would go to one or the other. For
:07:33. > :07:37.me, I can barely hold back my excitement over the Tory manifesto.
:07:38. > :07:40.This will be, I think, the most important day for the British
:07:41. > :07:48.government for the next five years. That wasn't irony there? You
:07:49. > :07:53.actually meant that? I'm not even being cynical at all on Sunday
:07:54. > :08:01.Politics! This is a huge day and it's because I think we will see...
:08:02. > :08:06.I don't think Mrs May will play it safe and I don't think we will get
:08:07. > :08:10.the broadbrush stuff that she might be advised to do. I think she will
:08:11. > :08:15.lay out precisely what you want to do over the next five years and take
:08:16. > :08:19.some big risks. Then finally after a year of this guessing and
:08:20. > :08:23.theorising, we will finally work out what Mrs May is all about. She will
:08:24. > :08:26.say she doesn't want the next parliament to be all about Brexit,
:08:27. > :08:30.though she knows that's the next important thing she has to deliver
:08:31. > :08:32.in some way, so she gets a mandate for that if the polls are right but
:08:33. > :08:46.she does have very different ideas from
:08:47. > :08:49.Mr Cameron about how to run a country. She will I assume one to
:08:50. > :08:51.mandate for what these different ideas are. Otherwise there is no
:08:52. > :08:55.point in holding an early election. You will get a majority, but if you
:08:56. > :08:57.get a mandate to carry on implementing the Cameron and Osborne
:08:58. > :09:01.manifesto it would be utterly pointless. I agree, it is the
:09:02. > :09:04.pivotal event of the election and it will be interesting to see the
:09:05. > :09:10.degree to which she expands on the line which interests me about its
:09:11. > :09:15.time to look at the good that government can do. Because in a way
:09:16. > :09:19.this moves the debate on in UK politics from, from 97 the Blair
:09:20. > :09:24.Brown governments were insecure about arguing about the role of
:09:25. > :09:27.government. Cameron Osborne government similarly so, so here you
:09:28. > :09:32.have a Labour Party talking about the role of government and the
:09:33. > :09:36.state, and Tory leader apparently doing so was well. I think that will
:09:37. > :09:42.be really interesting to see whether it is fleshed out in any significant
:09:43. > :09:46.way. And it is not a natural Tory message. Harold Macmillan talked
:09:47. > :09:54.about the role of the state, Ted Heath Mark two was pretty big on the
:09:55. > :09:59.state, the industrial policy and so on, and even if it is not thought to
:10:00. > :10:03.be that Tory, does she get away with it because she deliver such a big
:10:04. > :10:09.victory if that's what she does deliver? Just inject a little note
:10:10. > :10:16.of scepticism, I wonder how much of this is authentically Theresa May. I
:10:17. > :10:20.was interested to and talk to someone who used to sit in cabinet
:10:21. > :10:24.meetings during which Theresa May never expressed an opinion on
:10:25. > :10:31.anything outside the Home Office briefs. Other ministers were roving
:10:32. > :10:37.all over their colleagues' briefs. So where are the ideas coming from?
:10:38. > :10:43.I think we can point to Nick Timothy. One of her closest advisers
:10:44. > :10:50.in Downing Street. It will be interesting to see how that evolves.
:10:51. > :11:01.On Thursday I think we will all be talking about something called
:11:02. > :11:05.Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the suburb of Birmingham where Nick
:11:06. > :11:11.Timothy comes from, who is very much Theresa May's policy brain and
:11:12. > :11:15.leading inspiration. Urdington Toryism is about connecting the
:11:16. > :11:19.party with traditional working class voters, and their belief to do that
:11:20. > :11:24.is not just taking away government out of their lives but showing them
:11:25. > :11:32.that government can actually help their lives. It can be a force for
:11:33. > :11:39.good to rebuild the trust. A lot of what Mrs May talks about is all...
:11:40. > :11:47.It is talk and then a lot of it suddenly goes by the wayside. What
:11:48. > :11:52.happened to worker directors on the boards. It is designed to appeal to
:11:53. > :11:57.that constituency and then nothing happens. She had an excuse before in
:11:58. > :12:01.the sense that it wasn't in the 2015 manifesto and she had a small
:12:02. > :12:05.majority so therefore she arguably had to water down some of the stuff
:12:06. > :12:09.for example in her Tory conference speech, which had a lot of this
:12:10. > :12:14.active government material in it. If she puts it in the manifesto, it is
:12:15. > :12:19.a sign she plans to do it and will have no excuse if she then gets
:12:20. > :12:23.nervous afterwards because it will be in there. If it wasn't for
:12:24. > :12:28.Brexit, this great overwhelming issue, I think this election will be
:12:29. > :12:32.seen as quite a significant development in terms of an argument
:12:33. > :12:37.around the role of government, much-needed. But Brexit
:12:38. > :12:41.unfortunately overshadows it all. As much as we like our arguments over
:12:42. > :12:49.the role of government we will hear strong and stable, stable and strong
:12:50. > :12:53.ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely, and we heard the same old lines from
:12:54. > :13:00.the Labour Party as well so they are all at it. It will be a fascinating
:13:01. > :13:03.week, stop talking it down! Thanks to our panel.
:13:04. > :13:06.The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at noon
:13:07. > :13:10.I'll be back here at the same time on BBC One next Sunday.
:13:11. > :13:14.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.