:00:30. > :00:33.It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:34. > :00:36.Labour attacks Conservative plans for social care and to means-test
:00:37. > :00:39.So can Jeremy Corbyn eat into the Tory lead
:00:40. > :00:45.Theresa May says her party's manifesto is all about fairness.
:00:46. > :00:49.We'll be speaking to a Conservative cabinet minister about the plans.
:00:50. > :00:52.The polls have always shown healthy leads for the Conservatives.
:00:53. > :00:57.But, now we've seen the manifestos, is Labour narrowing the gap?
:00:58. > :01:00.In the East Midlands, what's in it for us?
:01:01. > :01:02.We'll be looking at what the manifestos mean for our region.
:01:03. > :01:13.And is it time for an ethnic quota in Parliament to give more
:01:14. > :01:17.And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political
:01:18. > :01:18.panel in the business: Sam Coates, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:19. > :01:20.and Steve Richards - they'll be tweeting throughout
:01:21. > :01:23.the programme, and you can get involved by using
:01:24. > :01:31.Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says pensioners will be up to ?330 a year
:01:32. > :01:43.worse off under plans outlined in the Conservative manifesto.
:01:44. > :01:49.The Work Pensions Secretary Damian Green has said his party will not
:01:50. > :01:53.rethink their plans to fund social care in England. Under the plans in
:01:54. > :02:00.the Conservative manifesto, nobody with assets of less than ?100,000,
:02:01. > :02:04.would have to pay for care. Labour has attacked the proposal, and John
:02:05. > :02:07.McDonnell, Labour's Shadow Chancellor, said this morning that
:02:08. > :02:11.there needs to be more cross-party consensus.
:02:12. > :02:13.That's why we supported Dilnot, but we also supported
:02:14. > :02:16.Because we've got to have something sustainable over generations,
:02:17. > :02:19.so that's why we've said to the Conservative Party,
:02:20. > :02:22.Let's go back to that cross-party approach that actually
:02:23. > :02:25.I just feel we've all been let down by what's come
:02:26. > :02:36.Sam, is Labour beginning to get their argument across? What we had
:02:37. > :02:40.last week was bluntly what felt like not very Lynton Crosby approved
:02:41. > :02:44.Conservative manifesto. What I mean by that is that it looks like there
:02:45. > :02:49.are things that will cause political difficulties for the party over this
:02:50. > :02:53.campaign. I've been talking to MPs and ministers who acknowledge that
:02:54. > :02:59.the social care plan is coming up on the doorstep. It has cut through
:03:00. > :03:03.very quickly, and it is worrying and deterring some voters. Not just
:03:04. > :03:14.pensioners, that people who are looking to inherit in the future.
:03:15. > :03:16.They are all asking how much they could lose that they wouldn't have
:03:17. > :03:19.lost before. A difficult question for the party to answer, given that
:03:20. > :03:25.they don't want to give too much away now. Was this a mistake, or a
:03:26. > :03:32.sign of the Conservatives' confidence? It has the hallmarks of
:03:33. > :03:36.something that has been cobbled together in a very unnaturally short
:03:37. > :03:40.time frame for putting a manifesto together. We have had mixed messages
:03:41. > :03:44.from the Tory MPs who have been out on the airwaves this morning as to
:03:45. > :03:49.whether they will consult on it whether it is just a starting point.
:03:50. > :03:56.That said, there is still three weeks to go, and most of the Tory
:03:57. > :03:59.party this morning feel this is a little light turbulence rather than
:04:00. > :04:03.anything that leaves the destination of victory in doubt. It it flips the
:04:04. > :04:07.normal politics. The Tories are going to make people who have a
:04:08. > :04:14.reasonable amount of assets pay for their social care. What is wrong
:04:15. > :04:17.with that? First, total credit for them for not pretending that all
:04:18. > :04:21.this can be done by magic, which is what normally happens in an
:04:22. > :04:27.election. The party will say, we will review this for the 95th time
:04:28. > :04:31.in the following Parliament, so they have no mandate to do anything and
:04:32. > :04:35.so do not do anything. It is courageous to do it. It is
:04:36. > :04:41.electorally risky, for the reasons that you suggest, that they pass the
:04:42. > :04:47.target their own natural supporter. And there is a sense that this is
:04:48. > :04:52.rushed through, in the frenzy to get it done in time. I think the ending
:04:53. > :04:57.of the pooling of risk and putting the entire burden on in inverted
:04:58. > :05:06.commas the victim, because you cannot insure Fritz, is against the
:05:07. > :05:09.spirit of a lot of the rest of the manifesto, and will give them huge
:05:10. > :05:18.problems if they try to implement it in the next Parliament. Let's have a
:05:19. > :05:23.look at the polls. Nearly five weeks ago, on Tuesday the 18th of April,
:05:24. > :05:28.Theresa May called the election. At that point, this was the median
:05:29. > :05:34.average of the recent polls. The Conservatives had an 18 point lead
:05:35. > :05:42.over Labour on 25%. Ukip and the Liberal Democrats were both on 18%.
:05:43. > :05:47.A draft of Labour's manifesto was leaked to the press. In the
:05:48. > :05:50.intervening weeks, support for the Conservatives and Labour had
:05:51. > :05:56.increased, that it had decreased for the Lib Dems and Ukip. Last Tuesday
:05:57. > :06:01.came the launch of the official Labour manifesto. By that time,
:06:02. > :06:07.Labour support had gone up by another 2%. The Lib Dems and Ukip
:06:08. > :06:11.had slipped back slightly. Later in the week came the manifestos from
:06:12. > :06:16.the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. This morning, for more polls. This
:06:17. > :06:24.is how the parties currently stand on average. Labour are now on 34%,
:06:25. > :06:28.up 4% since the launch of their manifesto. The Conservatives are
:06:29. > :06:35.down two points since last Tuesday. Ukip and the Lib Dems are both
:06:36. > :06:40.unchanged on 8% and 5%. You can find this poll tracker on the BBC
:06:41. > :06:45.website, see how it was calculated, and see the results of national
:06:46. > :06:48.polls over the last two years. So Isabel, is this the Tories' wobbly
:06:49. > :06:53.weekend or the start of the narrowing? This is still an
:06:54. > :07:00.extremely healthy lead for the Tories. At the start of this
:07:01. > :07:05.campaign, most commentators expected to things to happen. First, the Lib
:07:06. > :07:11.Dems would have a significant surge. That hasn't happened. Second, Labour
:07:12. > :07:16.would crash and plummet. Instead they are in the health of the low
:07:17. > :07:22.30s. I wonder if that tells you something about the tribal nature of
:07:23. > :07:27.the Labour vote, and the continuing problems with the Tory brand. I
:07:28. > :07:32.would say that a lot of Tory MPs wouldn't be too unhappy if Labour's
:07:33. > :07:38.result isn't quite as bad as has been anticipated. They don't want
:07:39. > :07:45.Corbyn to go anywhere. If the latest polls were to be the result on June
:07:46. > :07:50.the 8th, Mr Corbyn may not be in a rush to go anywhere. I still think
:07:51. > :07:55.it depends on the number of seats. If there is a landslide win, I
:07:56. > :08:00.think, one way or another, he will not stay. If it is much narrower, he
:08:01. > :08:06.has grounds for arguing he has done better than anticipated. The polls
:08:07. > :08:11.are very interesting. People compare this with 83. In 83, the Tory lead
:08:12. > :08:24.widened consistently throughout the campaign. There was the SDP -
:08:25. > :08:26.Liberal Alliance doing well in the polls. Here, the Lib Dems don't seem
:08:27. > :08:29.to be doing that. So the parallels with 83 don't really stack up. But
:08:30. > :08:32.let's see what happens. Still early days for the a lot of people are
:08:33. > :08:37.saying this is the result of the social care policy. We don't really
:08:38. > :08:40.know that. How do you beat them? In the last week or so, there's been
:08:41. > :08:46.the decision by some to hold their nose and vote Labour, who haven't
:08:47. > :08:50.done so before. Probably the biggest thing in this election is how the
:08:51. > :08:57.Right has reunited behind Theresa May. That figure for Ukip is
:08:58. > :09:03.incredibly small. She has brought those Ukip voters behind her, and
:09:04. > :09:07.that could be the decisive factor in many seats, rather than the Labour
:09:08. > :09:12.share of the boat picking up a bit or down a bit, depending on how
:09:13. > :09:15.turbulent the Tory manifesto makes it. Thank you for that.
:09:16. > :09:18.We've finally got our hands on the manifestos of the two main
:09:19. > :09:20.parties and, for once, voters can hardly complain that
:09:21. > :09:24.So, just how big is the choice on offer to the public?
:09:25. > :09:26.Since the Liberal Democrats and SNP have ruled out
:09:27. > :09:28.coalitions after June 8th, Adam Fleming compares the Labour
:09:29. > :09:31.Welcome to the BBC's election centre.
:09:32. > :09:35.Four minutes from now, when Big Ben strikes 10.00,
:09:36. > :09:39.we can legally reveal the contents of this, our exit poll.
:09:40. > :09:41.18 days to go, and the BBC's election night studio
:09:42. > :09:51.This is where David Dimbleby will sit, although there is no chair yet.
:09:52. > :09:54.The parties' policies are now the finished product.
:09:55. > :09:57.In Bradford, Jeremy Corbyn vowed a bigger state,
:09:58. > :10:00.the end of austerity, no more tuition fees.
:10:01. > :10:08.The Tory campaign, by contrast, is built on one word - fear.
:10:09. > :10:16.Down the road in Halifax, Theresa May kept a promise to get
:10:17. > :10:19.immigration down to the tens of thousands, and talked
:10:20. > :10:22.of leadership and tough choices in uncertain times.
:10:23. > :10:29.Strengthen my hand as I fight for Britain, and stand with me
:10:30. > :10:34.And, with confidence in ourselves and a unity
:10:35. > :10:42.of purpose in our country, let us go forward together.
:10:43. > :10:45.Let's look at the Labour and Conservative
:10:46. > :10:51.On tax, Labour would introduce a 50p rate for top earners.
:10:52. > :11:15.The Conservatives ditched their triple lock, giving them
:11:16. > :11:17.freedom to put up income tax and national insurance,
:11:18. > :11:20.although they want to keep the overall tax burden the same.
:11:21. > :11:22.Labour offered a major overhaul of the country's wiring,
:11:23. > :11:24.with a pledge to renationalise infrastructure, like power,
:11:25. > :11:27.The Conservatives said that would cost a fortune,
:11:28. > :11:29.but provided few details for the cost of their policies.
:11:30. > :11:31.Labour have simply become a shambles, and, as yesterday's
:11:32. > :11:33.manifesto showed, their numbers simply do not add up.
:11:34. > :11:36.What have they got planned for health and social care?
:11:37. > :11:40.The Conservatives offered more cash for the NHS,
:11:41. > :11:43.reaching an extra ?8 billion a year by the end of the parliament.
:11:44. > :11:47.Labour promised an extra ?30 billion over the course of the same period,
:11:48. > :11:53.plus free hospital parking and more pay for staff.
:11:54. > :12:00.The Conservatives would increase the value of assets you could
:12:01. > :12:03.protect from the cost of social care to ?100,000, but your home would be
:12:04. > :12:05.added to the assessment of your wealth,
:12:06. > :12:09.There was a focus on one group of voters in particular
:12:10. > :12:15.Labour would keep the triple lock, which guarantees that pensions go up
:12:16. > :12:20.The Tories would keep the increase in line
:12:21. > :12:24.with inflation or earnings, a double lock.
:12:25. > :12:26.The Conservatives would end of winter fuel payments
:12:27. > :12:30.for the richest, although we don't know exactly who that would be,
:12:31. > :12:38.This is a savage attack on vulnerable pensioners,
:12:39. > :12:42.particularly those who are just about managing.
:12:43. > :12:46.It is disgraceful, and we are calling upon the Conservative Party
:12:47. > :12:52.When it comes to leaving the European Union, Labour say
:12:53. > :12:56.they'd sweep away the government's negotiating strategy,
:12:57. > :12:58.secure a better deal and straightaway guaranteed the rights
:12:59. > :13:04.The Tories say a big majority would remove political uncertainty
:13:05. > :13:17.Jeremy Vine's due here in two and a half weeks.
:13:18. > :13:23.I'm joined now by David Gauke, who is Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
:13:24. > :13:29.Welcome back to the programme. The Tories once promised a cap on social
:13:30. > :13:37.care costs. Why have you abandoned that? We've looked at it, and there
:13:38. > :13:42.are couple of proposals with the Dilnot proposal. Much of the benefit
:13:43. > :13:46.would go to those inheriting larger estates. The second point was it was
:13:47. > :13:52.hoped that a cap would stimulate the larger insurance products that would
:13:53. > :13:57.fill the gap, but there is no sign that those products are emerging.
:13:58. > :14:02.Without a cap, you will not get one. We have come forward with a new
:14:03. > :14:06.proposal which we think is fairer, provide more money for social care,
:14:07. > :14:11.which is very important and is one of the big issues we face as a
:14:12. > :14:16.country. It is right that we face those big issues. Social care is
:14:17. > :14:24.one, getting a good Brexit deal is another. This demonstrates that
:14:25. > :14:26.Theresa May has an ambition to lead a government that addresses those
:14:27. > :14:32.big long-term issues. Looking at social care. If you have assets,
:14:33. > :14:37.including your home, of over ?100,000, you have to pay for all
:14:38. > :14:41.your social care costs. Is that fair? It is right that for the
:14:42. > :14:47.services that are provided to you, that that is paid out of your
:14:48. > :14:51.assets, subject to two really important qualifications. First, you
:14:52. > :14:58.shouldn't have your entire estate wiped out. At the moment, if you are
:14:59. > :15:03.in residential care, it can be wiped out ?223,000. If you are in
:15:04. > :15:10.domiciliary care, it can be out to ?23,000, plus you're domiciliary.
:15:11. > :15:14.Nobody should be forced to sell their house in their lifetime if
:15:15. > :15:16.they or their spouse needs long-term care. Again, we have protected that
:15:17. > :15:26.in the proposals we set out. But the state will basically take a
:15:27. > :15:31.chunk of your house when you die and they sell. In an essence it is a
:15:32. > :15:34.stealth inheritance tax on everything above ?100,000. But we
:15:35. > :15:38.have those two important protections. I am including that. It
:15:39. > :15:43.is a stealth inheritance tax. We have to face up to the fact that
:15:44. > :15:47.there are significant costs that we face as a country in terms of health
:15:48. > :15:52.and social careful. Traditionally, politicians don't address those
:15:53. > :15:58.issues, particularly during election campaigns. I think it is too Theresa
:15:59. > :16:01.May's credit that we are being straightforward with the British
:16:02. > :16:04.people and saying that we face this long-term challenge. Our manifesto
:16:05. > :16:08.was about the big challenges that we face, one of which was
:16:09. > :16:12.intergenerational fairness and one of which was delivering a strong
:16:13. > :16:19.economy and making sure that we can do that. But in the end, someone is
:16:20. > :16:22.going to have to pay for this. It is going to have to be a balance
:16:23. > :16:25.between the general taxpayer and those receiving the services. We
:16:26. > :16:29.think we have struck the right balance with this proposal. But it
:16:30. > :16:33.is entirely on the individual. People watching this programme, if
:16:34. > :16:40.they have a fair amount of assets, not massive, including the home,
:16:41. > :16:44.they will need to pay for everything themselves until their assets are
:16:45. > :16:49.reduced to ?100,000. It is not a balance, you're putting everything
:16:50. > :16:55.on the original two individual. At the moment, for those in residential
:16:56. > :16:59.care, they have to pay everything until 20 3000. -- everything on the
:17:00. > :17:03.individual. But now they will face more. Those in individual care are
:17:04. > :17:07.seeing their protection going up by four times as much, so that is
:17:08. > :17:11.eliminating unfairness. Why should those in residential care be in a
:17:12. > :17:17.worse position than those receiving domiciliary care? But as I say, that
:17:18. > :17:20.money has to come from somewhere and we are sitting at a proper plan for
:17:21. > :17:24.it. While also made the point that we are more likely to be able to
:17:25. > :17:28.have a properly functioning social care market if we have a strong
:17:29. > :17:31.economy, and to have a strong economy we need to deliver a good
:17:32. > :17:36.deal on Brexit and I think Theresa May is capable of doing that. You
:17:37. > :17:40.have said that before. But if you have a heart attack in old age, the
:17:41. > :17:44.NHS will take care of you. If you have dementia, you now have to pay
:17:45. > :17:48.for the care of yourself. Is that they are? It is already the case
:17:49. > :17:53.that if you have long-term care costs come up as I say, if you are
:17:54. > :17:58.in residential care you pay for all of it until the last ?23,000, but if
:17:59. > :18:02.you are in domiciliary care, excluding your housing assets, but
:18:03. > :18:08.all of your other assets get used up until you are down to ?23,000 a
:18:09. > :18:15.year. And I think it is right at this point that a party that aspires
:18:16. > :18:18.to run this country for the long-term, to address the long-term
:18:19. > :18:23.challenges we have is a country, for us to be clear that we need to
:18:24. > :18:29.deliver this. Because if it is not paid for it this way, if it goes and
:18:30. > :18:33.falls on the general taxpayer, the people who feel hard pressed by the
:18:34. > :18:37.amount of income tax and VAT they pay, frankly we have to say to them,
:18:38. > :18:42.those taxes will go up if we do not address it. But they might go up
:18:43. > :18:48.anyway. The average house price in your part of the country is just shy
:18:49. > :18:52.of ?430,000, so if you told your own constituents that they might have to
:18:53. > :18:57.spend ?300,000 of their assets on social care before the state steps
:18:58. > :19:02.in to help...? As I said earlier, nobody will be forced to pay during
:19:03. > :19:08.their lifetime. Nobody will be forced to sell their houses. We are
:19:09. > :19:12.providing that protection because of the third premium. Which makes it a
:19:13. > :19:18.kind of death tax, doesn't it? Which is what you use to rail against.
:19:19. > :19:22.What it is people paying for the services they have paid out of their
:19:23. > :19:26.assets. But with that very important protection that nobody is going to
:19:27. > :19:31.be wiped out in the way that has happened up until now, down to the
:19:32. > :19:35.last three years. But when Labour propose this, George Osborne called
:19:36. > :19:39.it a death tax and you are now proposing a stealth death tax
:19:40. > :19:45.inheritance tax. Labour's proposals were very different. It is the same
:19:46. > :19:52.effect. Labour's were hitting everyone with an inheritance tax. We
:19:53. > :19:55.are saying that there are -- that there is a state contribution but
:19:56. > :20:01.the public receiving the services will have to pay for it out of
:20:02. > :20:05.assets, which have grown substantially. And which they might
:20:06. > :20:09.now lose to social care. But I would say that people in Hertfordshire pay
:20:10. > :20:14.a lot in income tracks, national insurance and VAT, and this is my
:20:15. > :20:18.bet is going to have to come from somewhere. Well, they are now going
:20:19. > :20:23.to pay a lot of tax and pay for social care. Turning to immigration,
:20:24. > :20:28.you promised to get net migration down to 100,020 ten. You failed. You
:20:29. > :20:32.promised again in 2015 and you are feeling again. Why should voters
:20:33. > :20:36.trust you a third time? It is very clear that only the Conservative
:20:37. > :20:42.Party has an ambition to control immigration and to bring it down. An
:20:43. > :20:45.ambition you have failed to deliver. There are, of course, factors that
:20:46. > :20:49.come into play. For example a couple of years ago we were going through a
:20:50. > :20:52.period when the UK was creating huge numbers of jobs but none of our
:20:53. > :20:56.European neighbours were doing anything like it. Not surprisingly,
:20:57. > :21:03.that feeds through into the immigration numbers that we see. But
:21:04. > :21:08.it is right that we have that ambition because I do not believe it
:21:09. > :21:12.is sustainable to have hundreds of thousands net migration, you're
:21:13. > :21:16.after year after year, and only Theresa May of the Conservative
:21:17. > :21:20.Party is willing to address that. It has gone from being a target to an
:21:21. > :21:24.ambition, and I am pretty sure in a couple of years it will become an
:21:25. > :21:30.untimed aspiration. Is net migration now higher or lower than when you
:21:31. > :21:35.came to power in 2010? I think it is higher at the moment. Let's look at
:21:36. > :21:40.the figures. And there they are. You are right, it is higher, so after
:21:41. > :21:47.six years in power, promising to get it down to 100,000, it is higher. So
:21:48. > :21:51.if that is an ambition and you have not succeeded. We have to accept
:21:52. > :21:56.that there are a number of factors. It continues to be the case that the
:21:57. > :21:59.UK economy is growing and creating a lot of jobs, which is undoubtedly
:22:00. > :22:03.drawing people. But you made the promise on the basis that would not
:22:04. > :22:06.happen? We are certainly outperforming other countries in a
:22:07. > :22:11.way that we could not have predicted in 2010. That is one of the factors.
:22:12. > :22:14.But if you look at a lot of the steps that we have taken over the
:22:15. > :22:20.course of the last seven years, dealing with bogus students, for
:22:21. > :22:24.example, tightening up a lot of the rules. You can say all that but it
:22:25. > :22:27.has made no difference to the headline figure. Clearly it would
:22:28. > :22:32.have gone up by much more and we not taken the steps. But as I say, we
:22:33. > :22:38.cannot for ever, it seems to me, have net migration numbers in the
:22:39. > :22:42.hundreds of thousands. If we get that good Brexit deal, one of the
:22:43. > :22:47.things we can do is tighten up in terms of access here. You say that
:22:48. > :22:51.but you have always had control of non-EU migration. You cannot blame
:22:52. > :22:54.the EU for that. You control immigration from outside the EU.
:22:55. > :23:01.Have you ever managed to get even that below 100,000? Well, no doubt
:23:02. > :23:06.you will present the numbers now. You haven't. You have got down a bit
:23:07. > :23:11.from 2010, I will give you that, but even non-EU migration is still a lot
:23:12. > :23:16.more than 100000 and that is the thing you control. It is 164,000 on
:23:17. > :23:19.the latest figures. There is no point in saying to the voters that
:23:20. > :23:22.when we get control of the EU migration you will get it down when
:23:23. > :23:28.the bit you have control over, you have failed to get that down into
:23:29. > :23:32.the tens of thousands. The general trend has gone up. Non-EU migration
:23:33. > :23:38.we have brought down over the last few years. Not by much, not by
:23:39. > :23:43.anywhere near your 100,000 target. But we clearly have more tools
:23:44. > :23:48.available to us, following Brexit. At this rate it will be around 2030
:23:49. > :23:51.before you get non-EU migration down to 100,000. We clearly have more
:23:52. > :23:55.tools available to us and I return to the point I made. In the last six
:23:56. > :23:59.or seven years, particularly the last four or five, we have seen the
:24:00. > :24:03.UK jobs market growing substantially. It is extraordinary
:24:04. > :24:06.how many more jobs we have. So you'll only promised the migration
:24:07. > :24:11.target because you did not think you were going to run the economy well?
:24:12. > :24:14.That is what you are telling me. I don't think anyone expected us to
:24:15. > :24:18.create quite a number of jobs that we have done over the last six or
:24:19. > :24:21.seven years. At the time when other European countries have not been.
:24:22. > :24:27.George Osborne says your target is economically illiterate. I disagree
:24:28. > :24:34.with George on that. He is my old boss but I disagree with him on that
:24:35. > :24:37.point. And the reason I say that is looking at the economics and the
:24:38. > :24:43.wider social impact, I don't think it is sustainable for us to have
:24:44. > :24:46.hundreds of thousands, year after year after year. Let me ask you one
:24:47. > :24:50.other thing because you are the chief secretary. Your promising that
:24:51. > :24:55.spending on health will be ?8 billion higher in five use time than
:24:56. > :24:58.it is now. How do you pay for that? From a strong economy, two years ago
:24:59. > :25:04.we had a similar conversation because at that point we said that
:25:05. > :25:08.we would increase spending by ?8 billion. And we are more than on
:25:09. > :25:12.track to deliver it, because it is a priority area for us. Where will the
:25:13. > :25:17.money come from? It will be a priority area for us. We will find
:25:18. > :25:22.the money. So you have not been able to show us a revenue line where this
:25:23. > :25:26.?8 billion will come from. We have a record of making promises to spend
:25:27. > :25:31.more on the NHS and delivering. One thing I would say is that the only
:25:32. > :25:36.way you can spend more money on the NHS is if you have a strong economy,
:25:37. > :25:39.and the biggest risk... But that is true of anything. I am trying to
:25:40. > :25:44.find out where the ?8 billion come from, where will it come from? Know
:25:45. > :25:47.you were saying that perhaps you might increase taxes, ticking off
:25:48. > :25:54.the lock, so people are right to be suspicious. But you will not tell us
:25:55. > :25:58.where the ?8 billion will come from. Andrew, a strong economy is key to
:25:59. > :26:02.delivering more NHS money. That does not tell us where the money is
:26:03. > :26:06.coming from. The biggest risk to a strong economy would be a bad
:26:07. > :26:11.Brexit, which Jeremy Corbyn would deliver. And we have a record of
:26:12. > :26:14.putting more money into the NHS. I think that past performance we can
:26:15. > :26:16.take forward. Thank you for joining us.
:26:17. > :26:18.So, the Conservatives have been taking a bit of flak
:26:19. > :26:22.But Conservative big guns have been out and about this morning taking
:26:23. > :26:26.Here's Boris Johnson on ITV's Peston programme earlier today:
:26:27. > :26:30.What we're trying to do is to address what I think
:26:31. > :26:33.everybody, all serious demographers acknowledge will be the massive
:26:34. > :26:37.problem of the cost of social care long-term.
:26:38. > :26:40.This is a responsible, grown-up, conservative approach,
:26:41. > :26:43.trying to deal with a long-term problem in a way that is equitable,
:26:44. > :26:46.allows people to pass on a very substantial sum,
:26:47. > :26:48.still, to their kids, and takes away the fear
:26:49. > :26:54.Joining me now from Liverpool is Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary
:26:55. > :27:06.Petered out, welcome to the programme. Let's start with social
:27:07. > :27:10.care. The Tories are saying that if you have ?100,000 or more in assets,
:27:11. > :27:15.you should pay for your own social care. What is wrong with that? Well,
:27:16. > :27:20.I think the issue at the end of the day is the question of fairness. Is
:27:21. > :27:24.it fair? And what we're trying to do is to get to a situation where we
:27:25. > :27:30.have, for example, the Dilnot report, which identified that you
:27:31. > :27:33.actually have cap on your spending on social care. We are trying to get
:27:34. > :27:39.to a position where it is a reasonable and fair approach to
:27:40. > :27:44.expenditure. But you will know that a lot of people, particularly in the
:27:45. > :27:48.south of country, London and the south-east, and the adjacent areas
:27:49. > :27:51.around it, they have benefited from huge house price inflation. They
:27:52. > :27:56.have seen their homes go up in value, if and when they sell, they
:27:57. > :28:02.are not taxed on that increase. Why should these people not pay for
:28:03. > :28:06.their own social care if they have the assets to do so? They will be
:28:07. > :28:11.paying for some of their social care but you cannot take social care and
:28:12. > :28:14.health care separately. It has to be an integrated approach. So for
:28:15. > :28:18.example if you do have dementia, you're more likely to be in an
:28:19. > :28:22.elderly person's home for longer and you most probably have been in care
:28:23. > :28:26.for a longer period of time. On the other hand, you might have, if you
:28:27. > :28:29.have had a stroke, there may be continuing care needs paid for by
:28:30. > :28:33.the NHS. So at the end of the date it is trying to get a reasonable
:28:34. > :28:42.balance and just to pluck a figure of ?100,000 out of thin air is not
:28:43. > :28:47.sensible. You will have heard me say about David Gold that the house
:28:48. > :28:51.prices in his area, about 450,000 or so, not quite that, and that people
:28:52. > :28:56.may have to spend quite a lot of that on social care to get down to
:28:57. > :29:00.?100,000. But in your area, the average house price is only
:29:01. > :29:06.?149,000, so your people would not have to pay anything like as much
:29:07. > :29:12.before they hit the ?100,000 minimum. I hesitate to say that but
:29:13. > :29:15.is that not almost a socialist approach to social care that if you
:29:16. > :29:20.are in the affluent Home Counties with a big asset, you pay more, and
:29:21. > :29:23.if you are in an area that is not so affluent and your house is not worth
:29:24. > :29:28.very much, you pay a lot less. What is wrong with that principle? I
:29:29. > :29:32.think the problem I am trying to get to is this issue about equity across
:29:33. > :29:38.the piece. At the end of the day, what we want is a system whereby it
:29:39. > :29:42.is capped at a particular level, and the Dilnot report, after much
:29:43. > :29:46.examination, said we should have a cap on care costs at ?72,000. The
:29:47. > :29:50.Conservatives decided to ditch that and come up with another policy
:29:51. > :29:54.which by all accounts seems to be even more Draconian. At the end of
:29:55. > :30:03.the day it is trying to get social care and an NHS care in a much more
:30:04. > :30:06.fluid way. We had offered the Conservatives to have a bipartisan
:30:07. > :30:11.approach to this. David just said that this is a long term. You do not
:30:12. > :30:17.pick a figure out of thin air and use that as a long-term strategy.
:30:18. > :30:22.The Conservatives are now saying they will increase health spending
:30:23. > :30:27.over the next five years in real terms. You will increase health
:30:28. > :30:33.spending. In what way is your approach to health spending better
:30:34. > :30:39.than the Tories' now? We are contributing an extra 7.2 billion to
:30:40. > :30:44.the NHS and social care over the next few years. But you just don't
:30:45. > :30:48.put money into the NHS or social care. It has to be an integrated
:30:49. > :30:53.approach to social and health care. What we've got is just more of the
:30:54. > :30:58.same. What we don't want to do is just say, we ring-fenced an out for
:30:59. > :31:07.here or there. What you have to do is try to get that... Let me ask you
:31:08. > :31:11.again. In terms of the amount of resource that is going to be devoted
:31:12. > :31:17.in the next five years, and resource does matter for the NHS, in what way
:31:18. > :31:21.are your plans different now from the Conservative plans? The key is
:31:22. > :31:27.how you use that resource. By just putting money in, you've got to say,
:31:28. > :31:33.if we are going to put that money on, how do we use it? As somebody
:31:34. > :31:37.who has worked in social care for 40 years, you have to have a different
:31:38. > :31:43.approach to how you use that money. The money we are putting in, 7.7,
:31:44. > :31:47.may be similar in cash terms to what the Tories claim they are putting
:31:48. > :32:01.in, but it's not how much you put in per se, it is how you use it. You
:32:02. > :32:03.are going to get rid of car parking charges in hospital, and you are
:32:04. > :32:06.going to increase pay by taking the cap on pay off. So it doesn't
:32:07. > :32:09.necessarily follow that the money, under your way of doing it, will
:32:10. > :32:13.follow the front line. What you need in the NHS is a system that is
:32:14. > :32:20.capable of dealing with the patience you have. What we have now is on at
:32:21. > :32:30.five Asian of the NHS. Staff leaving, not being paid properly. So
:32:31. > :32:33.pay and the NHS go hand in hand. Let's move onto another area of
:32:34. > :32:39.policy where there is some confusion. Who speaks for the Labour
:32:40. > :32:46.Party on nuclear weapons? Is it Emily Thornbury, or Nia Griffith,
:32:47. > :32:50.defence spokesperson? The Labour manifesto. It is clear. We are
:32:51. > :33:01.committed to the nuclear deterrent, and that is the definitive... Is it?
:33:02. > :33:05.Emily Thornbury said that Trident could be scrapped in the defence
:33:06. > :33:10.review you would have immediately after taking power. On LBC on Friday
:33:11. > :33:16.night. She didn't, actually. I listened to that. What she actually
:33:17. > :33:20.said is, as part of a Labour government coming in, a new
:33:21. > :33:25.government, there is always a defence review. But not the concept
:33:26. > :33:32.of Trident in its substance. She said there would be a review in
:33:33. > :33:36.terms of, and this is in our manifesto. When you reduce
:33:37. > :33:42.something, you review how it is operated. The review could scrap
:33:43. > :33:47.Trident. It won't scrap Trident. The review is in the context of how you
:33:48. > :33:53.protect it from cyber attacks. This will issue was seized upon that she
:33:54. > :33:58.was saying that we would have another review of Trident or Labour
:33:59. > :34:05.would ditch it. That is nonsense. You will have seen some reports that
:34:06. > :34:09.MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn in the early 90s because of his
:34:10. > :34:17.links to Irish republicanism. This has caused some people, his links to
:34:18. > :34:24.the IRA and Sinn Fein, it has caused some concern. Could you just listen
:34:25. > :34:31.to this clip and react. Do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn
:34:32. > :34:35.all bombing. But do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn what was done
:34:36. > :34:40.with the British Army as well as both sides as well. What happened in
:34:41. > :34:46.Derry in 1972 was pretty devastating as well. Do you distinguish between
:34:47. > :34:53.state forces, what the British Army did and the IRA? Well, in a sense,
:34:54. > :34:58.the treatment of IRA prisoners which made them into virtual political
:34:59. > :35:03.prisoners suggested that the British government and the state saw some
:35:04. > :35:10.kind of almost equivalent in it. My point is that the whole violence if
:35:11. > :35:16.you was terrible, was appalling, and came out of a process that had been
:35:17. > :35:21.allowed to fester in Northern Ireland for a very long time. That
:35:22. > :35:26.was from about two years ago. Can you explain why the Leader of the
:35:27. > :35:30.Labour Party, Her Majesty 's opposition, the man who would be our
:35:31. > :35:36.next Prime Minister, finds it so hard to condemn IRA arming? I think
:35:37. > :35:40.it has to be within the context that Jeremy Corbyn for many years trying
:35:41. > :35:49.to move the peace protest... Process along. So why wouldn't you condemn
:35:50. > :35:56.IRA bombing? Again, that was an issue, a traumatic event in Irish -
:35:57. > :36:02.British relations that went on for 30 years. It is a complicated
:36:03. > :36:07.matter. Bombing is not that complicated. If you are a man of
:36:08. > :36:11.peace, surely you would condemn the bomb and the bullet? Let me say
:36:12. > :36:17.this, I condemn the bomb and the bullet. Why can't your leader? You
:36:18. > :36:22.would have to ask Jeremy Corbyn, but that is in the context of what he
:36:23. > :36:23.was trying to do over a 25 year period to move the priest process
:36:24. > :36:27.along. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35,
:36:28. > :36:29.you're watching the Sunday Politics. In the East Midlands...
:36:30. > :36:43.in Scotland and Wales. The election hits top gear
:36:44. > :36:45.as the parties target those vital I think with Jeremy Corbyn, all we
:36:46. > :36:50.will get is a government of chaos. I actually think the nasty party
:36:51. > :36:53.is back, and I think that is the revelation of this week,
:36:54. > :36:56.the revelation of the And the frustrations of a young
:36:57. > :37:01.generation of black voters who want their voices heard
:37:02. > :37:05.in politics. There is a causal effect
:37:06. > :37:08.between the lack of black politicians and the lack
:37:09. > :37:10.of engagement of young They are looking to the political
:37:11. > :37:13.system and they cannot see anybody like them,
:37:14. > :37:16.so how can we expect them to involve My guests this week,
:37:17. > :37:21.Leon Spence is a Conservative Until very recently he was a Labour
:37:22. > :37:27.councillor, but left the party in protest over the direction
:37:28. > :37:29.it was taking under Jeremy Corbyn. And Professor Cecile Wright
:37:30. > :37:32.is a Labour activist and founder of the Black Labour Network,
:37:33. > :37:52.and a strong supporter We have a letter here that was sent
:37:53. > :37:58.to postal voters in Gedling, but on this letter, there is no mention of
:37:59. > :38:01.Conservative. It is from right operable, Theresa May, by Minister.
:38:02. > :38:05.It does not mention conservatives. It does not mention conservatives.
:38:06. > :38:09.Is this a toxic brand or something? I do not think so. What it is is a
:38:10. > :38:14.measure of how popular the Prime Minister is at the moment. Not how
:38:15. > :38:19.popular the party is? I think we have seen local election results
:38:20. > :38:24.recently throughout the country for recently throughout the country for
:38:25. > :38:27.the Conservative Party, but you go out knocking on doors, it certainly
:38:28. > :38:34.ain't huge swathes of the country, and you see Theresa May is popular.
:38:35. > :38:37.An example, I will quote my mother who has been a Labour voter all her
:38:38. > :38:42.life, and she says Theresa May is somebody that she likes, she trusts.
:38:43. > :38:47.What about the weekend wobble? You have seen the polls. It is a long
:38:48. > :38:52.election campaign, and when you see the polling at this period of time,
:38:53. > :38:56.you see a narrowing of the gap in polling as we approach for weeks
:38:57. > :39:01.out. I personally would suggest that you will see an increase as we move
:39:02. > :39:11.Conservatives. You think this move Conservatives. You think this move
:39:12. > :39:20.is happening across the board? I would like to cooperate the
:39:21. > :39:27.receiving of male with the not mincing... I have directed mail from
:39:28. > :39:30.Theresa May and had I not known she was leader of the Conservative
:39:31. > :39:34.Party, I would not known in this. I would say that what I'm getting on
:39:35. > :39:42.the ground, particularly in Derby is that people are impressed by the
:39:43. > :39:47.Labour Party's manifesto, impressed by the policies that are in there,
:39:48. > :39:54.impressed by the fact that we are focusing on providing policies that
:39:55. > :40:00.are there for the many and not the few. So I am seeing a shift, a
:40:01. > :40:05.positive shift to the Labour Party. We will talk more about this later.
:40:06. > :40:09.The pace of the election moved up a gear this week as the main parties
:40:10. > :40:12.And with our region containing some vital marginal seats,
:40:13. > :40:14.top politicians were despatched here to rustle up votes.
:40:15. > :40:16.But what do those manifestos have to offer us here
:40:17. > :40:24.Our political editor Tony Roe's been taking a closer look.
:40:25. > :40:28.On the campaign trail for a fourth week in weather fair and foul.
:40:29. > :40:34.Really foul for those Labour supporters in Derby,
:40:35. > :40:36.but they were upbeat. Confident the polls do them now,
:40:37. > :40:41.confident manifesto commitments will appeal.
:40:42. > :40:44.The renationalisation of the railways, where you then
:40:45. > :40:47.have a long-term investment programme in the railway industry.
:40:48. > :40:50.Places like Derby, not only will we increase their connectivity,
:40:51. > :40:53.but in addition to that, Bombardier will be one
:40:54. > :40:56.of the companies that will be providing a lot of the railway stock
:40:57. > :41:00.that we will need in that new system.
:41:01. > :41:03.So, for Derby, I think, this manifesto, you could almost have
:41:04. > :41:09.On the afternoon of his party's manifesto launch,
:41:10. > :41:11.the Conservative Party chairman was in Labour marginal Gedling
:41:12. > :41:17.We have got to find ways to spend money responsibly,
:41:18. > :41:20.and it is no good promising things if you can't do it...
:41:21. > :41:24.There is no specific mention of the electrification
:41:25. > :41:27.of Midland Mainline in the Tory manifesto this time, but a more
:41:28. > :41:30.general commitment to work through an existing programme.
:41:31. > :41:35.We are seeing vast investment in the East Midlands,
:41:36. > :41:38.so if we look at what has happened with the Nottingham station,
:41:39. > :41:39.the refurbishment of the Nottingham station,
:41:40. > :41:42.the work that is going to take place as far as Derby
:41:43. > :41:44.station is concerned, with the reconfiguration
:41:45. > :41:49.of the station, those are all very important things.
:41:50. > :41:52.It has been said that part of the Conservative manifesto has
:41:53. > :41:56.shifted so far to the middle ground that some of the ideas in it
:41:57. > :41:57.have come from this man, pounding the streets
:41:58. > :42:02.I think the real thing is always better than the invitation,
:42:03. > :42:04.and I think that it is true that Theresa May has taken
:42:05. > :42:08.a few of the ideas I had, but she has not copied them properly
:42:09. > :42:12.I think the mask has slipped this week, because I think when people
:42:13. > :42:15.see what the Tories are proposing for pensions, taking
:42:16. > :42:18.the winter fuel allowance from 10 million of our pensioners,
:42:19. > :42:23.Reducing the amount of care people get in their own homes,
:42:24. > :42:26.a tax on dementia, I actually think the nasty party is back,
:42:27. > :42:30.and I think that is the revelation of this week, the revelation
:42:31. > :42:35.What this manifesto is, it is addressing the problems
:42:36. > :42:37.for the United Kingdom in today's society.
:42:38. > :42:41.It is also talking about the very important issue of our leaving
:42:42. > :42:44.the European Union and making sure that Theresa May gets a strong
:42:45. > :42:46.mandate, because I think that is very important.
:42:47. > :42:49.In just over three weeks, there will be one of two people
:42:50. > :42:54.It will either be Theresa May, or it will be Jeremy Corbyn.
:42:55. > :42:58.I think with Jeremy Corbyn, all we will get is a Government of chaos.
:42:59. > :43:01.Manifestos have given all parties something to attack in the last
:43:02. > :43:08.Some politicians have even admitted they don't either.
:43:09. > :43:11.What's going to stick are the headlines, the slogans,
:43:12. > :43:14.but this time, we won't have anything carved in stone,
:43:15. > :43:24.Well, last week we heard from the Lib Dems and the Green
:43:25. > :43:26.Party in the studio, and we'll be hearing
:43:27. > :43:29.from all of the parties in the run up to the election.
:43:30. > :43:35.Margot Parker is an MEP for the party and she's with us now.
:43:36. > :43:40.Margot Parker, where's your manifesto?
:43:41. > :43:45.It is going to be delivered on Wednesday this week, so just a
:43:46. > :43:58.couple of days. Are you going to tell us what is in it? Of course
:43:59. > :44:05.not. Sandy Berger? Yes yes, but not indifference to France. Anything
:44:06. > :44:09.that helps society be more cohesive. That is our angle. We are hearing
:44:10. > :44:14.calls for an English parliament. Will that strike a chord in the East
:44:15. > :44:20.Midlands? I think it might. I think people are fed up with the SNP in
:44:21. > :44:22.Scotland and controlling Westminster with their questions instead of
:44:23. > :44:27.getting on with the business, so I think people are fed up and saying,
:44:28. > :44:31.well, let's have an English parliament that actually serves the
:44:32. > :44:35.people of England. When he manifesto comes out, do expect a ride in the
:44:36. > :44:40.opinion polls? At the moment you are pretty low down. I am hopeful,
:44:41. > :44:45.absolutely. It is interesting to see the Tory party have taken many
:44:46. > :44:50.policies from the 2050 manifesto of hours, so we have had some good
:44:51. > :44:55.influence and that is to be applauded.
:44:56. > :44:57.Leon Spence, John McDonnell in Tony's report saying
:44:58. > :45:01.that the Labour manifesto could have been written for Derby,
:45:02. > :45:05.which is very kind of them, but what he means is there'll be
:45:06. > :45:07.investment in rail projects which will be good for the city,
:45:08. > :45:17.This is a manifesto that could do well in parts of East Midlands. Ukip
:45:18. > :45:25.have done a remarkable job in delivering their purpose. We are a
:45:26. > :45:31.long-term party, my friend. They are very much achieving Brexit. We are
:45:32. > :45:35.pretty critical pathway of delivering a strong, stable Brexit
:45:36. > :45:40.for the Government. You have subsumed Ukip's policies. I do not
:45:41. > :45:47.think so, but we have taken a lot of their purpose, which is to take a
:45:48. > :45:52.stable Brexit/ that is rubbish. We have been made for the long haul. We
:45:53. > :45:57.have had built up slowly over the years. Brexit was very important to
:45:58. > :46:01.us to get something deliberate, it would free the country and allow us
:46:02. > :46:06.to prosper and grow. But that will continue. Many people will be voting
:46:07. > :46:14.Ukip. When they see our manifesto, they will more so. Cecile? Ukip was
:46:15. > :46:22.always a single issue party and has now served its purpose. Now let's
:46:23. > :46:26.focus on domestic policy. Our team is reporting that the Conservative
:46:27. > :46:29.manifesto has not gone down well, particularly with older people.
:46:30. > :46:35.Obviously all lot of talk this weekend is about social care and new
:46:36. > :46:39.arrangements for homeowners that need care in old age. Do think
:46:40. > :46:46.Labour will do well out of this? I hope so. Since 2010, the
:46:47. > :46:52.Conservative coalition, then the Conservative Party have cut social
:46:53. > :46:58.care by ?4.6 billion. So the situation we have with the crisis in
:46:59. > :47:03.social care is because of the major cuts in this area, the Labour
:47:04. > :47:10.manifesto has clearly stated how we will ensure that there is social
:47:11. > :47:16.care, to ensure our elderly population live in dignity. So our
:47:17. > :47:19.policy is not about dividing generations, not about pitting
:47:20. > :47:25.beyond against the old and taking from the old and expecting them,
:47:26. > :47:30.during a vulnerable time in their lives, to pay up. Does it not come
:47:31. > :47:35.down to as Patrick McLoughlin said, how people see as a leader? You
:47:36. > :47:39.would argue that Labour has a problem with Corbyn, whereas the
:47:40. > :47:45.opposite may be the case. One of the things you have heard many times on
:47:46. > :47:49.the doorstep is that we expect politicians to be more honest. I
:47:50. > :47:53.think what we have seen with Theresa May in this manifesto is saying
:47:54. > :47:56.there are challenges. We have a five-year period of time to deliver
:47:57. > :48:01.Brexit, deliver some of the huge issues around social care, and we
:48:02. > :48:04.need politicians to be honest. When it comes to things like the winter
:48:05. > :48:12.fuel allowance, not a popular policy to remove... Possibly very damaging.
:48:13. > :48:18.It is a nonsense to say in Scotland that they will be void of this. But
:48:19. > :48:21.and only England will be put in this direction for that I mean you cannot
:48:22. > :48:33.say it is colder in Scotland it was stupid. At least then time, lowering
:48:34. > :48:42.Corporation tax, white is it's the Tory manifesto to do this? This is a
:48:43. > :48:44.risky strategy. This, we need to grasp the nettle, people will suffer
:48:45. > :48:51.all, that for a good... We know all, that for a good... We know
:48:52. > :48:54.there are issues. Between 2014 and 2024, we know the number of
:48:55. > :48:59.85-year-old is going to have increased by one third. I think we
:49:00. > :49:03.do not know what is going to be happening in the next year, so we
:49:04. > :49:07.need a strong, stable Brexit that is going to deliver the very best
:49:08. > :49:14.possible. Not a coalition of chaos of all these minor Pollard bat
:49:15. > :49:21.parties. You got hammered in the local elections, what can you do as
:49:22. > :49:26.a party? But what can you do in the next 2.5 weeks to increase your
:49:27. > :49:30.share of the vote? Get out there, do what we are doing. Once we announce
:49:31. > :49:35.our manifesto, there are some good points in there, and from my own
:49:36. > :49:38.field which is about quality, gender equality, I am hopeful that we will
:49:39. > :49:43.see some sensible issues being discussed and hopefully that will
:49:44. > :49:46.raise is in the polls. We are certainly working very hard. We have
:49:47. > :49:50.great one in Leicestershire. Your great one in Leicestershire. Your
:49:51. > :49:56.manifesto will be costed like the other parties? It will be. The
:49:57. > :50:02.Labour Party manifesto has been costed. It is the Conservative Party
:50:03. > :50:07.won that has not been costed. I think the issue that we have is
:50:08. > :50:11.historically manifestos have not been costed because we have been
:50:12. > :50:14.looking at five-year terms. It was Ken Clarke who said he'd is not even
:50:15. > :50:21.never be costed. But you said never be costed. But you said
:50:22. > :50:24.Theresa is honest and it Tory party is honest, so why are they not
:50:25. > :50:32.costing the manifesto, why do they not cost what it is they are going
:50:33. > :50:38.to do? What we have in any manifesto is aspirations. We do not know the
:50:39. > :50:43.costs. Aspirations? All manifestos are aspirations? Thank you, mango,
:50:44. > :50:45.for talking to us today. Next, is it time to bring
:50:46. > :50:48.in quotas to make sure there are more politicians
:50:49. > :50:49.from our black communities? In the East Midlands
:50:50. > :50:52.there are no black MPs, One student at Nottingham
:50:53. > :50:55.Trent University has been researching the problem
:50:56. > :50:57.and the possible solutions. I've just finished my
:50:58. > :51:04.third year undergraduate degree at Nottingham Trent
:51:05. > :51:06.University studying politics and international relations,
:51:07. > :51:08.and I took a closer look into how the lack
:51:09. > :51:09.of Afro-Caribbean representation
:51:10. > :51:11.affects young Afro-Caribbean The lack of black
:51:12. > :51:15.politicians is having There are fewer black
:51:16. > :51:18.politicians, fewer black people involving themselves within politics
:51:19. > :51:20.and a general discontent The results from the last
:51:21. > :51:25.election are staggering. It was found that 18%
:51:26. > :51:28.of Afro-Caribbeans were not registered to vote, compared
:51:29. > :51:31.with 7% of white people. From my own research,
:51:32. > :51:34.it was found that 74% of people I interviewed
:51:35. > :51:36.stated representation their decision to participate
:51:37. > :51:41.within politics. This isn't just a matter
:51:42. > :51:44.for the elections. My generation have been
:51:45. > :51:47.talking about this for a Any issues that I have
:51:48. > :51:50.regarding anything in my community, it's the older
:51:51. > :51:55.generation of white gentlemen, privileged background that I have
:51:56. > :51:59.to communicate with. So there is a lack of understanding
:52:00. > :52:03.across the consensus of the issues that are really involved
:52:04. > :52:09.in our community. Even the Westminster election
:52:10. > :52:15.format, you find that not many of the black community
:52:16. > :52:16.do participate in voting,
:52:17. > :52:21.let alone wanting to take part in politics
:52:22. > :52:27.So yeah, I just think it starts with education.
:52:28. > :52:30.When you are a young age, obviously, you are
:52:31. > :52:31.always watching TV, always looking up,
:52:32. > :52:33.and if someone looks at you, for
:52:34. > :52:36.example, if they have the same colour as your skin, you are
:52:37. > :52:38.automatically you almost think you are kind of like them.
:52:39. > :52:41.And obviously if you don't see anyone in Parliament or in
:52:42. > :52:43.politics like that, who looks like you, then you kind of, you
:52:44. > :52:45.distinguish yourself and you say, "Oh, that can't
:52:46. > :52:50.One way that we can combat this is by having an
:52:51. > :52:53.ethnic quota within Parliament so ethnic minorities have a specific
:52:54. > :52:57.Political education needs to be on the agenda also, so young people
:52:58. > :53:00.know who represents them, why they are represented and how they
:53:01. > :53:05.Without this, we will have a generation of people
:53:06. > :53:18.Cecile Wright, I know you have done a lot of work on this, and it is
:53:19. > :53:24.almost the invisibility of black politicians. Why is that? It is a
:53:25. > :53:29.huge issue. It is a issue that all parties should be concerned about.
:53:30. > :53:33.The Labour Party is one of the most diverse parties in terms of
:53:34. > :53:39.representation, at Parliamentary level and local council level.
:53:40. > :53:43.Indeed, the party, within the party, we have policy to ensure this
:53:44. > :53:46.diversity. I think with the snap election, somehow those policies
:53:47. > :53:53.have been undermined in terms of the implementation. We have on the
:53:54. > :53:57.National laxatives, which is the governing body for the party, a
:53:58. > :54:02.representative for black and minority communities. The efficacy
:54:03. > :54:08.of that role in the sense that that position is held by an MP. One needs
:54:09. > :54:15.to be asking the question why they would hold a position on the
:54:16. > :54:20.executive. The issue is perhaps the stakeholders that are there to
:54:21. > :54:24.ensure there is diversity in some selection, it is not being
:54:25. > :54:28.effectively undertaken are implemented. Cecile has that Labour
:54:29. > :54:33.does wellingtons of diversity. Do think the Tory party has work to do
:54:34. > :54:38.on it? I think all do. We are in a position now where if the polls are
:54:39. > :54:44.to be believed, we could end up with more Conservative MPs than Labour
:54:45. > :54:49.will do, than is eight great move forwards. We have seen a molester of
:54:50. > :54:57.the three constituencies in Leicester, two of the constituencies
:54:58. > :55:01.are being fought. Two young candidates are taking on very
:55:02. > :55:07.difficulties to wing, but have a huge future in the party. Only 6% of
:55:08. > :55:16.MPs from any ethnic background at the moment. In local councils, 4% at
:55:17. > :55:27.background. Only 17% -- 17% from a background. Only 17% -- 17% from a
:55:28. > :55:30.motor background registered to vote. If you do not see yourself are
:55:31. > :55:36.presented in a political establishment. That is sending a
:55:37. > :55:39.message. That is worrying in the East Midlands because that is what
:55:40. > :55:44.we are focusing on. Across the East Midlands, we do not have a single
:55:45. > :55:49.black politician, of African Caribbean background, and when you
:55:50. > :55:53.think how many of the Parliamentary seats across East Midlands are
:55:54. > :55:59.located in areas where there are high ethnic minority communities
:56:00. > :56:04.constituencies, that is worrying. I think this should be a concern for
:56:05. > :56:10.all parties, and particularly the major parties. It is a big social
:56:11. > :56:19.issues sop to be better for society. Is it time for quotas? No,
:56:20. > :56:22.absolutely not. Yesterday I went to the Leicester Afro-Caribbean Centre
:56:23. > :56:27.where I spent most Saturday mornings, and I spoke to many people
:56:28. > :56:31.in that centre and they are not politically disengaged. I'm sure
:56:32. > :56:35.Cecile would say that they are absolutely fascinated and involved
:56:36. > :56:39.in the issues that affect their lives. Exit, work, making sure they
:56:40. > :56:45.have a decent life. I think there is a need for a structure which will
:56:46. > :56:50.reverse the crisis, and I think it is a crisis that we face, with
:56:51. > :56:57.respect to women and representations through the short lists... Introduce
:56:58. > :56:58.that as well. I think we need all-black short lists. Thank you
:56:59. > :57:00.very much indeed. With three weeks to go
:57:01. > :57:02.to the election, we'll be taking a closer look at some
:57:03. > :57:05.of our most important In the coming weeks we'll be
:57:06. > :57:08.focusing on some of the election hotspots in the East Midlands
:57:09. > :57:11.and hearing from all of the candidates, beginning
:57:12. > :57:12.with the marginal seat Rob Pittam reports now
:57:13. > :57:16.on the politicians looking There is a reason the big names have
:57:17. > :57:27.been hitting Gedling. It is a Midlands marginal
:57:28. > :57:29.that is a top target. Labour's Vernon Coaker has held
:57:30. > :57:32.the seat for 20 years, winning with a majority of just
:57:33. > :57:36.under 3000 in 2015. He is standing again,
:57:37. > :57:39.but he will be pushed hard Five candidates are
:57:40. > :57:43.standing here in total. I have taken up individual cases,
:57:44. > :57:53.campaigned on local issues. And the coice here will be
:57:54. > :57:56.that record of 20 years as against a Tory opportunist,
:57:57. > :57:58.somebody who has just come We are actually going to put
:57:59. > :58:03.more money into the NHS, We are looking after our
:58:04. > :58:11.long-term care for the elderly. And I really think that people
:58:12. > :58:14.are understanding that they do not want to risk the vote for anybody
:58:15. > :58:17.else when they know the economy and our country is going
:58:18. > :58:19.in the right direction. We are offering people in Gedling
:58:20. > :58:26.a chance which could be their last chance to vote against Corbyn
:58:27. > :58:28.and May's disastrous hard Brexit. A vote for the Liberal Democrats is
:58:29. > :58:31.a vote to change Britain's future. Do not crash out of the single
:58:32. > :58:35.market without a deal. We are your insurance policy
:58:36. > :58:38.to guarantee a full Brexit and hold We will have sensible
:58:39. > :58:42.controls on immigration, look for an English Parliament,
:58:43. > :58:44.proportional representation We will protect the environment,
:58:45. > :58:51.we will invest in clean, green energy, we will roll back
:58:52. > :58:54.privatisation on the NHS, Young people, education should be
:58:55. > :59:01.free, and protecting human rights, you will get the final
:59:02. > :59:11.vote on Brexit. election whereever you are,
:59:12. > :59:13.the deadline for registering And you can see a full list
:59:14. > :59:21.of candidates standing in every seat in the country on the BBC's
:59:22. > :59:23.online news pages. Just look for
:59:24. > :59:27.bbc.co.uk/news/elections. That's it for now
:59:28. > :59:29.from the East Midlands. My thanks to my guests,
:59:30. > :59:32.Leon Spence and Cecile Wright. Time now to hand you
:59:33. > :59:34.back to Andrew Neil. cancelled. And rent to own is still
:59:35. > :59:41.our policy. Thank you very much, Tom Brake. Andrew, back to you.
:59:42. > :59:44.So, two and half weeks to go till polling day,
:59:45. > :59:46.let's take stock of the campaign so far and look ahead
:59:47. > :59:55.Sam, Isabel and Steve are with me again.
:59:56. > :00:03.Sam, Mrs May had made a great thing about the just about managing. Not
:00:04. > :00:09.the poorest of the poor, but not really affluent people, who are
:00:10. > :00:13.maybe OK but it's a bit of a struggle. What is in the manifesto
:00:14. > :00:17.for them? There is something about the high profile items in the
:00:18. > :00:22.manifesto. She said she wants to help those just above the poorest
:00:23. > :00:27.level. But if you look at things like the winter fuel allowance,
:00:28. > :00:31.which is going to be given only to the poorest. If you look at free
:00:32. > :00:36.school meals for infants, those for the poorest are going to be kept,
:00:37. > :00:43.but the rest will go. The social care plan, those who are renting or
:00:44. > :00:48.in properties worth up to ?90,000, they are going to be treated, but
:00:49. > :00:54.those in properties worth above that, 250,000, for example, will
:00:55. > :01:01.have to pay. Which leads to the question - what is being done for
:01:02. > :01:04.the just about managings? There is something, the personal allowance
:01:05. > :01:09.that David Cameron promised in 2015, that they are not making a big deal
:01:10. > :01:15.of that, because they cannot say by how much. So you are looking in tax
:01:16. > :01:23.rises on the just about managings. Where will the tax rises come from.
:01:24. > :01:30.We do not know, that there is the 40 million pounds gap for the Tories to
:01:31. > :01:35.reach what they are pledging in their manifesto. We do not know how
:01:36. > :01:41.that is going to be made up, more tax, or more borrowing? So that is
:01:42. > :01:45.why the questions of the implications of removing the tax
:01:46. > :01:49.lock are so potentially difficult for Tory MPs. The Labour manifesto
:01:50. > :01:52.gives figures for the cost of certain policies and where the
:01:53. > :01:58.revenue will come from. You can argue about the figures, but at
:01:59. > :02:02.least we have the figures. The Tory manifesto is opaque on these
:02:03. > :02:06.matters. That applies to both the manifestos. Looking at the Labour
:02:07. > :02:10.manifesto on the way here this morning, when you look at the
:02:11. > :02:14.section on care for the elderly, they simply say, there are various
:02:15. > :02:20.ways in which the money for this can be raised. They are specific on
:02:21. > :02:25.other things. They are, and we heard John McDonnell this morning being
:02:26. > :02:34.very on that, and saying there is not a single ? in Tory manifesto. I
:02:35. > :02:39.have only got to page 66. It is quite broad brush and they are very
:02:40. > :02:44.open to challenge. For example, on the detail of a number of their
:02:45. > :02:49.flagship things. There is no detail on their immigration policy. They
:02:50. > :02:53.reiterate the ambition, but not how they are going to do that, without a
:02:54. > :03:01.massive increase in resource for Borders officials. We are at a time
:03:02. > :03:07.where average wages are lagging behind prices. And in work benefits
:03:08. > :03:12.remain frozen. I would have thought that the just-about-managings are
:03:13. > :03:15.people who are in work but they need some in work benefits to make life
:03:16. > :03:24.tolerable and be able to pay bills. Doesn't she has to do more for them?
:03:25. > :03:30.Maybe, but this whole manifesto was her inner circle saying, right, this
:03:31. > :03:37.is our chance to express our... It partly reads like a sort of
:03:38. > :03:41.philosophical essay at times. About the challenges, individualism
:03:42. > :03:47.against collectivism. Some of it reads quite well and is quite
:03:48. > :03:52.interesting, but in terms of its detail, Labour would never get away
:03:53. > :03:56.with it. They wouldn't be allowed to be so vague about where taxes are
:03:57. > :04:00.going to rise. We know there are going to be tax rises after the
:04:01. > :04:08.election, but we don't know where they will be. 100%, there will be
:04:09. > :04:13.tax rises. We know that they wanted a tax rise in the last budget, but
:04:14. > :04:17.they couldn't get it through because of the 2015 manifesto. Labour do
:04:18. > :04:24.offer a lot more detail. People could disagree with it, but there is
:04:25. > :04:29.a lot more detail. More to get your teeth into. About capital gains tax
:04:30. > :04:34.and the rises for better owners and so on. The SNP manifesto comes out
:04:35. > :04:41.this week, and the Greens and Sinn Fein. We think Ukip as well. There
:04:42. > :04:47.are more manifestos to come. The Lib Dems have already brought theirs
:04:48. > :04:51.out. Isn't the Liberal Democrat campaign in trouble? It doesn't seem
:04:52. > :04:56.to be doing particular the well in the polls, or at the local elections
:04:57. > :05:01.a few weeks ago. The Liberal Democrats are trying to fish in
:05:02. > :05:07.quite a small pool for votes. They are looking to get votes from those
:05:08. > :05:11.remainers who want to reverse the result, in effect. Tim Farron is
:05:12. > :05:19.promising a second referendum on the deal at the end of the negotiation
:05:20. > :05:24.process. And that is a hard sell. So those voting for remain on June 23
:05:25. > :05:30.are not low hanging fruit by any means? Polls suggesting that half of
:05:31. > :05:35.those want to reverse the result, so that is a feeling of about 20% on
:05:36. > :05:38.the Lib Dems, and they are getting slightly less than half at the
:05:39. > :05:44.moment, but there are not a huge amount of votes for them to get on
:05:45. > :05:54.that strategy. It doesn't feel like Tim Farron and the Lib Dems have
:05:55. > :05:58.promised enough. They are making a very serious case on cannabis use in
:05:59. > :06:01.a nightclub, but the optics of what they are discussing doesn't make
:06:02. > :06:05.them look like an anchor in a future coalition government that they would
:06:06. > :06:09.need to be. I wonder if we are seeing the re-emergence of the
:06:10. > :06:14.2-party system? And it is not the same two parties. In Scotland, the
:06:15. > :06:18.dynamics of this election seemed to be the Nationalists against the
:06:19. > :06:32.Conservatives. In England, if you look at what has happened to be Ukip
:06:33. > :06:36.vote, and what Sam was saying about the Lib Dems are struggling a bit to
:06:37. > :06:38.get some traction, it is overwhelmingly Labour and the
:06:39. > :06:40.Conservatives. A different 2-party system from Scotland, but a 2-party
:06:41. > :06:45.system. There are a number of different election is going on in
:06:46. > :06:49.parallel. In Scotland it is about whether you are unionist or not.
:06:50. > :06:54.Here, we have the collapse of the Ukip vote, which looks as though it
:06:55. > :06:58.is being redistributed in the Tories' favour. This is a unique
:06:59. > :07:05.election, and will not necessarily set the trend for elections to come.
:07:06. > :07:09.In the Tory manifesto, I spotted the fact that the fixed term Parliament
:07:10. > :07:17.act is going to be scrapped. That got almost no coverage! It turned
:07:18. > :07:21.out to be academic anyway, that it tells you something about how
:07:22. > :07:26.Theresa May is feeling, and she wants the control to call an
:07:27. > :07:30.election whenever it suits her. Re-emergence of the 2-party system,
:07:31. > :07:39.for this election or beyond? For this election, yes, but it shows the
:07:40. > :07:43.sort of robust strength of parties and their fragility. In other words,
:07:44. > :07:47.the Lib Dems haven't really recovered from the losses in the
:07:48. > :07:52.last general election, and are therefore not really seen as a
:07:53. > :07:57.robust vehicle to deliver Remain. If they were, they might be doing
:07:58. > :08:02.better. The Labour Party hasn't recovered in Scotland, and yet, if
:08:03. > :08:07.you look at the basic divide in England and Scotland and you see two
:08:08. > :08:12.parties battling it out, it is very, very hard for the smaller parties to
:08:13. > :08:18.break through and last. Many appear briefly on the political stage and
:08:19. > :08:23.then disappear again. The election had the ostensible goal of Brexit,
:08:24. > :08:28.but we haven't heard much about it in the campaign. Perhaps the Tories
:08:29. > :08:32.want to get back onto that. David Davis sounding quite tough this
:08:33. > :08:38.morning, the Brexit minister, saying there is no chance we will talk
:08:39. > :08:41.about 100 billion. And we have to have power in the negotiations on
:08:42. > :08:46.the free trade deal or what ever it is. I think they are keen to get the
:08:47. > :08:51.subject of the manifesto at this point, because it has not started
:08:52. > :08:56.too well. There is an irony that Theresa May ostensibly called the
:08:57. > :09:00.election because she needed a stronger hand in the Brexit
:09:01. > :09:03.negotiations, and there was an opportunity for the Lib Dems, with
:09:04. > :09:08.their unique offer of being the party that is absolutely against the
:09:09. > :09:14.outcome of the referendum, and offering another chance. There
:09:15. > :09:18.hasn't been much airtime on that particular pledge, because instead,
:09:19. > :09:24.this election has segued into being all about leadership. Theresa May's
:09:25. > :09:30.leadership, and looking again at the Tory manifesto, I was struck that
:09:31. > :09:36.she was saying that this is my plan for the future, not ABBA plan. Even
:09:37. > :09:43.when talking about social care, he manages to work in a bit about
:09:44. > :09:47.Theresa May and Brexit. And Boris Johnson this morning, an interview
:09:48. > :09:51.he gave on another political programme this morning, it was
:09:52. > :09:56.extraordinarily sycophantic for him. Isn't Theresa May wonderful. There
:09:57. > :10:02.is a man trying to secure his job in the Foreign Office! Will he succeed?
:10:03. > :10:10.I think she will leave him. Better in the tent than out. What did you
:10:11. > :10:15.make of David Davis' remarks? He was basically saying, we will walk away
:10:16. > :10:23.from the negotiating table if the Europeans slam a bill for 100
:10:24. > :10:28.billion euros. The point is that the Europeans will not slam a bill for
:10:29. > :10:33.100 billion euros on the negotiating table. That is the gross figure.
:10:34. > :10:38.There are all sorts of things that need to be taken into account. I
:10:39. > :10:45.imagine they will ask for something around the 50 or ?60 billion mark.
:10:46. > :10:49.It looks that they are trying to make it look like a concession when
:10:50. > :10:53.they do make their demands in order to soften the ground for what is
:10:54. > :10:57.going to happen just two weeks after general election day. He makes a
:10:58. > :11:02.reasonable point about having parallel talks. What they want to do
:11:03. > :11:07.straightaway is deal with the bill, Northern Ireland and citizens
:11:08. > :11:10.rights. All of those things are very complicated and interlinked issues,
:11:11. > :11:14.which cannot be dealt with in isolation. I wouldn't be surprised
:11:15. > :11:18.if we ended up with parallel talks, just to work out where we are going
:11:19. > :11:25.with Northern Ireland and the border. Steve, you can't work out
:11:26. > :11:30.what the Northern Ireland border will be, and EU citizens' writes
:11:31. > :11:34.here, until you work out what our relationship with the EU in the
:11:35. > :11:39.future will be. Indeed. The British government is under pressure to deal
:11:40. > :11:44.quickly with the border issue in Ireland, but feel they can't do so
:11:45. > :11:48.because when you have a tariff free arrangement outcome, or an
:11:49. > :11:51.arrangement that is much more protectionist, and that will
:11:52. > :11:55.determine partly the nature of the border. You cannot have a quick
:11:56. > :11:59.agreement on that front without knowing the rest of the deal. I
:12:00. > :12:03.think the negotiation will be complex. I am certain they want a
:12:04. > :12:09.deal rather than none, because this is no deal thing is part of the
:12:10. > :12:13.negotiation at this early stage. Sounding tough in the general
:12:14. > :12:18.election campaign also works electorally. But after the election,
:12:19. > :12:24.it will be a tough negotiation, beginning with this cost of Brexit.
:12:25. > :12:27.My understanding is that the government feels it's got to make
:12:28. > :12:35.the Europeans think they will not do a deal in order to get a deal. They
:12:36. > :12:39.don't want no deal. Absolutely not. And I'm sure it plays into the
:12:40. > :12:44.election. I'm sure the rhetoric will change when the election is over.
:12:45. > :12:46.That's all for today, thank you to all my guests.
:12:47. > :12:49.The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at 12.00
:12:50. > :12:52.And tomorrow evening I will be starting my series of interviews
:12:53. > :12:55.with the party leaders - first up is the Prime
:12:56. > :12:57.Minister, Theresa May, that's at 7pm on BBC One.
:12:58. > :13:00.And I'll be back here at the same time on BBC One next Sunday.
:13:01. > :13:49.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:13:50. > :13:51.We've made great strides tackling HIV.
:13:52. > :13:54.Imagine if we could create a movement