0:00:38 > 0:00:39Morning, everyone.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42I'm Sarah Smith, and welcome to The Sunday Politics,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44where we always bring you everything you need to know to understand
0:00:44 > 0:00:46what's going on in politics.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50Coming up on today's programme...
0:00:50 > 0:00:52The Government says
0:00:52 > 0:00:54the international trade minister Mark Garnier will be investigated
0:00:54 > 0:00:57following newspaper allegations of inappropriate behaviour
0:00:57 > 0:00:59towards a female staff member.
0:00:59 > 0:01:04We'll have the latest.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08The Prime Minister says she can agree a deal with the EU and plenty
0:01:08 > 0:01:14of time for Parliament to vote on it before we leave in 2018. Well
0:01:14 > 0:01:22Parliament play ball? New evidence cast out on the
0:01:22 > 0:01:25In the East Midlands: a call to our MPs to fight for more
0:01:25 > 0:01:27Government spending in the region, as new figures show we're
0:01:27 > 0:01:28bottom of the pile.
0:01:28 > 0:01:29And the tourism boom bringing in billions of pounds.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32on from the abortion act white MPs are lobbying the Home Secretary to
0:01:32 > 0:01:38stop the alleged harassment of women attending abortion clinics.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41All that coming up in the programme.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44And with me today to help make sense of all the big stories,
0:01:44 > 0:01:48Julia Hartley-Brewer, Steve Richards and Anne McElvoy.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Some breaking news this morning.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52The Government has announced that it will investigate
0:01:52 > 0:01:54whether the International Trade Minister Mark Garnier broke
0:01:54 > 0:01:56the Ministerial Code following allegations
0:01:56 > 0:02:01of inappropriate behaviour.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05It comes after reports in the Mail on Sunday which has spoken to one
0:02:05 > 0:02:06of Mr Garnier's former employees.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08News of the investigation was announced by the Health
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Secretary Jeremy Hunt on the Andrew Marr show earlier.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13The stories, if they are true, are totally unacceptable
0:02:13 > 0:02:16and the Cabinet Office will be conducting an investigation
0:02:16 > 0:02:19as to whether there has been a breach of the ministerial code
0:02:19 > 0:02:20in this particular case.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22But as you know the facts are disputed.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25This is something that covers behaviour by MPs of all parties
0:02:25 > 0:02:28and that is why the other thing that is going to happen
0:02:28 > 0:02:31is that today Theresa May is going to write to John Bercow,
0:02:31 > 0:02:35the Speaker of the House of Commons, to ask for his advice as to how
0:02:35 > 0:02:40we change that culture.
0:02:40 > 0:02:44That was Jeremy Hunt a little earlier. I want to turn to the panel
0:02:44 > 0:02:49to make sense of this news. This is the government taking these
0:02:49 > 0:02:53allegations quite seriously.What has changed in this story is they
0:02:53 > 0:02:57used to be a bit of delay while people work out what they should say
0:02:57 > 0:03:03about it, how seriously to take it. As you see now a senior cabinet
0:03:03 > 0:03:07member out there, Jeremy Hunt, with an instant response. He does have
0:03:07 > 0:03:11the worry of whether the facts are disputed, but what they want to be
0:03:11 > 0:03:15seen doing is to do something very quickly. In the past they would say
0:03:15 > 0:03:20it was all part of the rough and tumble of Westminster.Mark Garnier
0:03:20 > 0:03:25does not deny these stories, which is that he asked an employee to buy
0:03:25 > 0:03:29sex toys, but he said it was just high jinks and it was taken out of
0:03:29 > 0:03:33context. Is this the sort of thing that a few years ago in a different
0:03:33 > 0:03:39environment would be investigated? Not necessarily quite the frenzy
0:03:39 > 0:03:46that it is nowadays. The combination of social media, all the Sunday
0:03:46 > 0:03:49political programmes were ministers have to go on armed with a response
0:03:49 > 0:03:56means that you get these we have to be seen to be doing something. That
0:03:56 > 0:04:01means there is this Cabinet Office investigation. You pointed out to us
0:04:01 > 0:04:05before the programme that he was not a minister before this happened. It
0:04:05 > 0:04:09does not matter whether he says yes, know I did this or did not,
0:04:09 > 0:04:14something has to be seen to be done. Clearly ministers today are being
0:04:14 > 0:04:18armed with that bit of information and that Theresa May will ask John
0:04:18 > 0:04:21Bercow the speaker to look into the whole culture of Parliament in this
0:04:21 > 0:04:28context. That is the response to this kind of frenzy.If we do live
0:04:28 > 0:04:31in an environment where something has to be seen to be done, does that
0:04:31 > 0:04:37always mean the right thing gets done?Absolutely not. We are in
0:04:37 > 0:04:41witch hunt territory. All of us work in the Commons over many years and
0:04:41 > 0:04:45anyone would think it was a scene out of Benny Hill or a carry on
0:04:45 > 0:04:51film. Sadly it is not that much fun and it is rather dull and dreary.
0:04:51 > 0:04:56Yes, there are sex pests, yes, there is sexual harassment, but the idea
0:04:56 > 0:05:00this is going on on a huge scale is nonsense.Doesn't matter whether it
0:05:00 > 0:05:07is a huge scale or not? Or just a few instances?Any workplace where
0:05:07 > 0:05:12you have the mixing of work and social so intertwined and you throw
0:05:12 > 0:05:15a huge amount of alcohol and late night and people living away from
0:05:15 > 0:05:22home you will have this happen.That does not make it OK.It makes sexual
0:05:22 > 0:05:26harassment not OK as it is not anywhere. This happens to men as
0:05:26 > 0:05:31well and if they have an issue into it there are employment tribunal 's
0:05:31 > 0:05:35and they can contact lawyers. I do not think this should be a matter of
0:05:35 > 0:05:41the speaker, it should be someone completely independent of any party.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45People think MPs are employees of the party or the Commons, they are
0:05:45 > 0:05:49not.Because they are self-employed to whom do you go if you are a
0:05:49 > 0:05:55researcher?That has to be clarified. I agree you need a much
0:05:55 > 0:06:01clearer line of reporting. It was a bit like the situation when we came
0:06:01 > 0:06:06into the media many years ago, the Punic wars in my case! You were not
0:06:06 > 0:06:14quite sure who to go to. If you work worried that it might impede your
0:06:14 > 0:06:18career, and you had to talk to people who work next to you, that is
0:06:18 > 0:06:23just one example, but in the Commons people do not know who they should
0:06:23 > 0:06:27go to. Where Theresa May might be making a mistake, it is the same
0:06:27 > 0:06:31mistake when it was decided to investigate through Levinson the
0:06:31 > 0:06:37culture of the media which was like nailing jelly to a wall. Look at the
0:06:37 > 0:06:40culture of anybody's job and the environment they are in and there is
0:06:40 > 0:06:45usually a lot wrong with it. When you try and make it general, they
0:06:45 > 0:06:50are not trying to blame individuals, or it say they need a better line on
0:06:50 > 0:06:55reporting of sexual harassment, which I support, the Commons is a
0:06:55 > 0:06:59funny place and it is a rough old trade and you are never going to
0:06:59 > 0:07:03iron out the human foibles of that. Diane Abbott was talking about this
0:07:03 > 0:07:07earlier.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11When I first went into Parliament so many of those men had been to all
0:07:11 > 0:07:18boys boarding schools and had really difficult attitudes towards women.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22The world has moved on and middle-aged women are less likely
0:07:22 > 0:07:31than middle-aged men to believe that young research are irresistibly
0:07:31 > 0:07:36attracted to them. We have seen the issues and we have seen one of our
0:07:36 > 0:07:42colleagues been suspended for quite unacceptable language.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47That is a point, Jarrod O'Mara, a Labour MP who has had the whip
0:07:47 > 0:07:52suspended, this goes across all parties.The idea that there is a
0:07:52 > 0:07:57left or right divide over this is absurd. This is a cultural issue. In
0:07:57 > 0:08:02the media and in a lot of other institutions if this is going to
0:08:02 > 0:08:06develop politically, the frenzy will carry on for a bit and other names
0:08:06 > 0:08:10will come out over the next few days, not just the two we have
0:08:10 > 0:08:17mentioned so far in politics. But it also raises questions about how
0:08:17 > 0:08:22candidates are selected for example. There has been a huge pressure for
0:08:22 > 0:08:27the centre to keep out of things. I bet from now on there will be much
0:08:27 > 0:08:31greater scrutiny of all candidates and tweets will have to be looked at
0:08:31 > 0:08:38and all the rest of it.Selecting candidates is interesting. Miriam
0:08:38 > 0:08:42Gonzalez, Nick Clegg's wife, says that during that election they knew
0:08:42 > 0:08:46about Jarrod O'Mara and the Lib Dems knew about it, so it is difficult to
0:08:46 > 0:08:52suggest the Labour Party did not as well.There is very clear evidence
0:08:52 > 0:08:57the Labour Party did know. But we are in a situation of how perfect
0:08:57 > 0:09:04and well-behaved does everyone have to be? If you look at past American
0:09:04 > 0:09:08presidents, JFK and Bill Clinton, these men were sex pest
0:09:08 > 0:09:11extraordinaire, with totally inappropriate behaviour on a regular
0:09:11 > 0:09:16basis. There are things you are not allowed to say if you are feminists.
0:09:16 > 0:09:20Young women are really attracted to powerful men. I was busted for the
0:09:20 > 0:09:25idea that there are young women in the House of commons who are
0:09:25 > 0:09:31throwing themselves at middle-aged, potbellied, balding, older men. We
0:09:31 > 0:09:38need to focus on the right things. When it is unwanted, harassing,
0:09:38 > 0:09:41inappropriate and criminal, absolutely, you come down like a
0:09:41 > 0:09:45tonne of bricks. It is not just because there are more women in the
0:09:45 > 0:09:49Commons, it is because there are more men married to women like us.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52We have to leave it there.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54As attention turns in Westminster to the hundreds
0:09:54 > 0:09:57of amendments put down on the EU Withdrawal Bill, David Davis has
0:09:57 > 0:10:00caused a stir this week by saying it's possible Parliament won't get
0:10:00 > 0:10:03a vote on the Brexit deal until after March 2019 -
0:10:03 > 0:10:05when the clock runs out and we leave the EU.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07Let's take a look at how the controversy played out.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11And which point do you envisage Parliament having a vote?
0:10:11 > 0:10:13As soon as possible thereafter.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16This Parliament?
0:10:16 > 0:10:18As soon as possible possible thereafter, yeah.
0:10:18 > 0:10:19As soon as possible thereafter.
0:10:19 > 0:10:20So, the vote in Parliament...
0:10:20 > 0:10:22The other thing...
0:10:22 > 0:10:23Could be after March 2019?
0:10:23 > 0:10:25It could be, yeah, it could be.
0:10:25 > 0:10:26The...
0:10:26 > 0:10:28It depends when it concludes.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30Mr Barnier, remember, has said he'd like...
0:10:30 > 0:10:33Sorry, the vote of our Parliament, the UK Parliament, could be
0:10:33 > 0:10:34after March 2019?
0:10:34 > 0:10:36Yes, it could be.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38Could be.
0:10:38 > 0:10:39The thing to member...
0:10:39 > 0:10:41Which would be...
0:10:41 > 0:10:43Well, it can't come before we have the deal.
0:10:43 > 0:10:45You said that it is POSSIBLE that Parliament night not vote
0:10:45 > 0:10:49on the deal until AFTER the end of March 2019.
0:10:49 > 0:10:50I'm summarising correctly what you said...?
0:10:50 > 0:10:52Yeah, that's correct.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55In the event we don't do the deal until then, yeah.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57Can the Prime Minister please explain how it's possible
0:10:57 > 0:10:59to have a meaningful vote on something that's
0:10:59 > 0:11:04already taken place?
0:11:04 > 0:11:07As the honourable gentleman knows, we're in negotiations
0:11:07 > 0:11:10with the European Union, but I am confident that the timetable under
0:11:10 > 0:11:14the Lisbon Treaty does give time until March 2019
0:11:14 > 0:11:16for the negotiations to take place.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19But I'm confident, because it is in the interests of both sides,
0:11:19 > 0:11:22it's not just this Parliament that wants to have a vote on that deal,
0:11:22 > 0:11:24but actually there will be ratification by other parliaments,
0:11:24 > 0:11:29that we will be able to achieve that agreement and that negotiation
0:11:29 > 0:11:32in time for this Parliament to have a vote that we committed to.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35We are working to reach an agreement on the final deal
0:11:35 > 0:11:38in good time before we leave the European Union in March 2019.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40Clearly, we cannot say for certain at this stage
0:11:40 > 0:11:42when this will be agreed.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45But as Michel Barnier said, he hopes to get a draft deal
0:11:45 > 0:11:50agreed by October 2018, and that's our aim is well.
0:11:50 > 0:11:54agreed by October 2018, and that's our aim as well.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56I'm joined now by the former Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Benn, who is the chair of the Commons Brexit Committee,
0:11:58 > 0:12:02which David Davis was giving evidence to.
0:12:02 > 0:12:08Good morning.When you think a parliamentary vote should take place
0:12:08 > 0:12:13in order for it to be meaningful?It has to be before we leave the
0:12:13 > 0:12:16European Union. Michel Barnier said at the start of the negotiations
0:12:16 > 0:12:21that he wants to wrap them up by October of next year, so we have
0:12:21 > 0:12:24only got 12 months left, the clock is ticking and there is a huge
0:12:24 > 0:12:28amount of ground to cover.You do not think there is any point in
0:12:28 > 0:12:39having the vote the week before we leave because you could then not go
0:12:39 > 0:12:42and re-negotiate?That would not be acceptable. We will not be given a
0:12:42 > 0:12:45bit of paper and told to take it or leave it. But the following day
0:12:45 > 0:12:48Steve Baker, also a minister in the department, told our committee that
0:12:48 > 0:12:52the government now accepts that in order to implement transitional
0:12:52 > 0:12:56arrangements that it is seeking, it will need separate legislation. I
0:12:56 > 0:13:00put the question to him if you are going to need separate legislation
0:13:00 > 0:13:04to do that, why don't you have a separate bill to implement the
0:13:04 > 0:13:07withdrawal agreement rather than seeking to use the powers the
0:13:07 > 0:13:12government is proposing to take in the EU withdrawal bill.If we stick
0:13:12 > 0:13:16to the timing, you have said you do not think it is possible to
0:13:16 > 0:13:20negotiate a trade deal in the next 12 months. You say the only people
0:13:20 > 0:13:25who think that is possible British ministers. If you do not believe we
0:13:25 > 0:13:30can get a deal negotiated, how can we get a vote on it in 12 months'
0:13:30 > 0:13:34time?If things go well, and there is still a risk of no agreement
0:13:34 > 0:13:48which would be disastrous for the economy and the country, if
0:13:53 > 0:13:56things go there will be a deal on the divorce issues, there will be a
0:13:56 > 0:13:58deal on the nature of the transitional arrangement and the
0:13:58 > 0:14:01government is to set out how it thinks that will work, and then an
0:14:01 > 0:14:04agreement between the UK and the 27 member states saying, we will now
0:14:04 > 0:14:06negotiate a new trade and market access arrangement, and new
0:14:06 > 0:14:08association agreement between the two parties, and that will be done
0:14:08 > 0:14:10in the transition period. Parliament will be voting in those
0:14:10 > 0:14:15circumstances on a deal which leads to the door being open.But we would
0:14:15 > 0:14:20be outside the EU at that point, so how meaningful can vote be where you
0:14:20 > 0:14:25take it or leave it if we have already left the EU? Surely this has
0:14:25 > 0:14:31to happen before March 2019 for it to make a difference?I do not think
0:14:31 > 0:14:35it is possible to negotiate all of the issues that will need to be
0:14:35 > 0:14:40covered in the time available.Then it is not possible to have a
0:14:40 > 0:14:51meaningful vote on it?Parliament will have to have a look at the deal
0:14:51 > 0:14:54presented to it. It is likely to be a mix agreement so the approval
0:14:54 > 0:14:56process in the rest of Europe, unlike the Article 50 agreement,
0:14:56 > 0:14:59which will be a majority vote in the European Parliament and in the
0:14:59 > 0:15:02British Parliament, every single Parliament will have a vote on it,
0:15:02 > 0:15:07so it will be a more complex process anyway, but I do not think that is
0:15:07 > 0:15:13the time to get all of that sorted between now and October next year.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Whether it is before or after we have left the EU, the government
0:15:17 > 0:15:22have said it is a take it or leave it option and it is the Noel Edmonds
0:15:22 > 0:15:29option, deal or no Deal, you say yes or no to it. You cannot send them
0:15:29 > 0:15:33back to re-negotiate.
0:15:33 > 0:15:38If it is a separate piece of legislation, when Parliament has a
0:15:38 > 0:15:44chance to shape the nature of that legislation.But it can't change
0:15:44 > 0:15:48what has been negotiated with the EU?Well, you could say to the
0:15:48 > 0:15:53government, we're happy with this but was not happy about that chukka
0:15:53 > 0:15:58here's some fresh instructions, go back in and...It seems to me what
0:15:58 > 0:16:02they want is the maximum access to the single market for the lowest
0:16:02 > 0:16:06possible tariffs, whilst able to control migration. If they've got to
0:16:06 > 0:16:11get the best deal that they can on that, how on earth is the Labour
0:16:11 > 0:16:15Party, saying we want a bit more, owing to persuade the other 27?We
0:16:15 > 0:16:19certainly don't want the lowest possible tariffs, we want no tariffs
0:16:19 > 0:16:23are taught. My personal view is that, has made a profound mistake in
0:16:23 > 0:16:28deciding that it wants to leave the customs union. If you want to help
0:16:28 > 0:16:33deal with the very serious question of the border between Northern
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, the way you do that is to stay in
0:16:37 > 0:16:42the customs union and I hope, will change its mind.But the Labour
0:16:42 > 0:16:45Party is simply saying in the House of Commons, we want a better deal
0:16:45 > 0:16:53than what, has been able to get?It depends how the negotiations unfold.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58, has ended up on the transitional arrangements in the place that Keir
0:16:58 > 0:17:04Starmer set out on behalf of the shadow cabinet in August, when he
0:17:04 > 0:17:07said, we will need to stay in the single market and the customs union
0:17:07 > 0:17:10for the duration of the transition, and I think that is the position,
0:17:10 > 0:17:15has now reached. It has not been helped by differences of view within
0:17:15 > 0:17:19the Cabinet, and a lot of time has passed and there's proved time left
0:17:19 > 0:17:24and we have not even got on to the negotiations. -- there's very little
0:17:24 > 0:17:30time left.On phase two, the labour Party have set out six clear tests,
0:17:30 > 0:17:35and two of them are crucial. You say you want the exact same benefits we
0:17:35 > 0:17:39currently have in the customs union but you also want to be able to
0:17:39 > 0:17:43ensure the fair migration to control immigration, basically, which does
0:17:43 > 0:17:46sound a bit like having your cake and eating it. You say that you will
0:17:46 > 0:17:50vote against any deal that doesn't give you all of that, the exact same
0:17:50 > 0:17:54benefits of the single market, and allowing you to control migration.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58But you say no deal would be catastrophic if so it seems to me
0:17:58 > 0:18:01you're unlikely to get the deal that you could vote for but you don't
0:18:01 > 0:18:06want to vote for no deal?We absolutely don't want a no deal.
0:18:06 > 0:18:12Businesses have sent a letter to the Prime Minister saying that a
0:18:12 > 0:18:14transition is essential because the possibility of a no deal and no
0:18:14 > 0:18:18transitional would be very damaging for the economy. We fought the
0:18:18 > 0:18:20general election on a policy of seeking to retain the benefits of
0:18:20 > 0:18:25the single market and the customs union. Keir Starmer said on behalf
0:18:25 > 0:18:30of the shadow government that as far as the longer term arrangements are
0:18:30 > 0:18:33concerned, that should leave all options on the table, because it is
0:18:33 > 0:18:36the end that you're trying to achieve and you then find the means
0:18:36 > 0:18:42to support it. So we're setting out very clearly those tests.If you
0:18:42 > 0:18:45were to vote down an agreement because it did not meet your tests,
0:18:45 > 0:18:51and there was time to send, back to the EU to get a better deal, then
0:18:51 > 0:18:53you would have significantly weakened their negotiating hand
0:18:53 > 0:18:57chukka that doesn't help them?I don't think, has deployed its
0:18:57 > 0:19:02negotiating hand very strongly thus far. Because we had a general
0:19:02 > 0:19:04election which meant that we lost time that we would have used for
0:19:04 > 0:19:09negotiating. We still don't know what kind of long-term trade and
0:19:09 > 0:19:16market access deal, wants. The Prime Minister says, I don't want a deal
0:19:16 > 0:19:19like Canada and I don't want a deal like the European Economic Area. But
0:19:19 > 0:19:24we still don't know what kind of deal they want. With about 12 months
0:19:24 > 0:19:28to go, the other thing, needs to do is to set out very clearly above all
0:19:28 > 0:19:33for the benefit of the other 27 European countries, what kind of
0:19:33 > 0:19:36deal it wants. When I travel to Europe and talk to those involved in
0:19:36 > 0:19:41the negotiations, you see other leaders saying, we don't actually
0:19:41 > 0:19:45know what Britain wants. With a year to go it is about time we made that
0:19:45 > 0:19:51clear.One related question on the European Union - you spoke in your
0:19:51 > 0:19:54famous speech in Syria about the international brigades in Spain, and
0:19:54 > 0:19:59I wonder if your solidarity with them leads you to think that the UK
0:19:59 > 0:20:02Government should be recognising Catalonia is an independent state?
0:20:02 > 0:20:07No, I don't think so. It is a very difficult and potentially dangerous
0:20:07 > 0:20:12situation in Catalonia at the moment. Direct rule from Madrid is
0:20:12 > 0:20:17not a long-term solution. There needs to be a negotiation, and
0:20:17 > 0:20:21elections will give Catalonia the chance to take that decision, but I
0:20:21 > 0:20:27am not clear what the declaration of independence actually means. Are
0:20:27 > 0:20:31they going to be borders, is they're going to be an army? There will have
0:20:31 > 0:20:35to be some agreement. Catalonia has already had a high degree of
0:20:35 > 0:20:40autonomy. It may like some more, and it seems to me if you look at the
0:20:40 > 0:20:45experience here in the United Kingdom, that is the way to go, not
0:20:45 > 0:20:48a constitutional stand-off. And I really hope nobody is charged with
0:20:48 > 0:20:52rebellion, because actually that would make matters worse.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56Now, the Government has this week reopened the public
0:20:56 > 0:20:58consultation on plans for a third runway at Heathrow.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00While ministers are clear the £18 billion project
0:21:00 > 0:21:03is still the preferred option, new data raises further questions
0:21:03 > 0:21:04about the environmental impact of expansion,
0:21:04 > 0:21:06and offers an improved economic case for a second
0:21:06 > 0:21:08runway at Gatwick instead.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10So, with opponents on all sides of the Commons, does the Government
0:21:10 > 0:21:13still have the votes to get the plans off the ground?
0:21:13 > 0:21:22Here's Elizabeth Glinka.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28The debate over the expansion of Heathrow has been
0:21:28 > 0:21:30going on for decades.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32Plans for a third runway were first introduced
0:21:32 > 0:21:34by the Labour government in 2003.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37Then, after spending millions of pounds, finally, in 2015,
0:21:37 > 0:21:43the airport commission recommended that those plans go ahead,
0:21:43 > 0:21:46and the government position appeared to be fixed.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49But, of course, since then, we've had a general election.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53The Government have lost their Commons majority.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55And with opposition on both front benches, the Parliamentary
0:21:55 > 0:22:00arithmetic looks a little bit up in the air.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03A lot has changed since the airport commission produced its report,
0:22:03 > 0:22:06and that don't forget was the bedrock for the Government's
0:22:06 > 0:22:08decision, that's why the government supposedly made the decision
0:22:08 > 0:22:09that it made.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12But most of the assumptions made in that report have
0:22:12 > 0:22:14been undermined since, by data on passenger numbers,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17on economic benefits, and more than anything, on pollution.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20There's demand from international carriers to get into Heathrow.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22More and more people want to fly.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26And after the referendum, connectivity post-Brexit
0:22:26 > 0:22:29is going to be absolutely critical to the UK economy, so if anything,
0:22:29 > 0:22:35I think the case is stronger for expansion at Heathrow.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38A vote on expansion had been due to take place this summer.
0:22:38 > 0:22:40But with Westminster somewhat distracted, that didn't happen.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43Now, fresh data means the Government has had to reopen
0:22:43 > 0:22:49the public consultation.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52But it maintains the case for Heathrow is as strong as ever,
0:22:52 > 0:22:57delivering benefits of up to £74 billion to the wider economy.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00And in any case, the Government says, action must be taken,
0:23:00 > 0:23:04as all five of London's airports will be completely
0:23:04 > 0:23:09full by the mid-2030s.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11Still, the new research does cast an alternative expansion at Gatwick
0:23:11 > 0:23:15in a more favourable economic light, while showing Heathrow
0:23:15 > 0:23:23is now less likely to meet its environmental targets.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27Campaigners like these in Hounslow sense the wind is shifting.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30We're feeling encouraged, because we see all kinds
0:23:30 > 0:23:32of weaknesses in the argument.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35Certainly, quite a few MPs, I think certainly Labour MPs,
0:23:35 > 0:23:37are beginning to think perhaps it's not such a great idea
0:23:37 > 0:23:40to have a third runway.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42Their MP is convinced colleagues can now be persuaded
0:23:42 > 0:23:45to see things their way.
0:23:45 > 0:23:47The Labour Party quite rightly set four key tests
0:23:47 > 0:23:50for a third runway at Heathrow.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53And in my view, Heathrow is not able...
0:23:53 > 0:23:57The Heathrow option is not able to pass any of those.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00So, I see a lot of colleagues in the Labour Party around
0:24:00 > 0:24:02the country beginning to think twice.
0:24:02 > 0:24:08And if you look at the cross-party MPs supportin this anti-Heathrow
0:24:08 > 0:24:11And if you look at the cross-party MPs supporting this anti-Heathrow
0:24:11 > 0:24:13protest this week, you will see some familiar faces.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15You know my position - as the constituency MP,
0:24:15 > 0:24:17I'm totally opposed.
0:24:17 > 0:24:19I think this is another indication of just the difficulties
0:24:19 > 0:24:22the Government have got off of implementing this policy.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24I don't think it's going to happen, I just don't think
0:24:24 > 0:24:25it's going to happen.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28So, if some on the Labour front bench are, shall
0:24:28 > 0:24:31we say, not supportive, what about the other side?
0:24:31 > 0:24:34In a free vote, we could have had up to 60 Conservative MPs
0:24:34 > 0:24:36voting against expansion, that's the number that is normally
0:24:36 > 0:24:37used and I think it's right.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39In the circumstances where it requires an active rebellion,
0:24:39 > 0:24:41the numbers would be fewer.
0:24:41 > 0:24:44I can't tell you what that number is, but I can tell
0:24:44 > 0:24:46you that there are people right the way through the party,
0:24:46 > 0:24:49from the backbenches to the heart of the government,
0:24:49 > 0:24:50who will vote against Heathrow expansion.
0:24:50 > 0:24:54And yet the SNP, whose Commons votes could prove vital,
0:24:54 > 0:24:55are behind the Heathrow plan, which promises more
0:24:55 > 0:24:56connecting flights.
0:24:56 > 0:25:01And other supporters are convinced they have the numbers.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04There is a majority of members of Parliament that support Heathrow
0:25:04 > 0:25:07expansion, and when that is put to the test, whenever that will be,
0:25:07 > 0:25:09I think that will be clearly demonstrated.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11Any vote on this issue won't come until next summer.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14For both sides, yet more time to argue about weather
0:25:14 > 0:25:21the plans should take off or be permanently grounded.
0:25:24 > 0:25:26Elizabeth Glinka there.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29And I'm joined now by the former Cabinet minister Theresa Villiers,
0:25:29 > 0:25:31who oversaw aviation policy as a transport minister
0:25:31 > 0:25:37under David Cameron.
0:25:37 > 0:25:43Thanks for coming in. You have made your opposition to a third runway at
0:25:43 > 0:25:46Heathrow consistently clear. , have reopened this consultation but it is
0:25:46 > 0:25:50still clearly their preferred option?It is but what I have always
0:25:50 > 0:25:54asked is, why try to build a new runway at Heathrow when you can
0:25:54 > 0:25:57build one at Gatwick in half the time, for half the cost and with a
0:25:57 > 0:26:01tiny fraction of the environment will cost average is that true,
0:26:01 > 0:26:05though? Private finance is already to go at Heathrow, because that's
0:26:05 > 0:26:08where people want to do it and that's where the private backers
0:26:08 > 0:26:12want to put it. It would take much longer to get the private finance
0:26:12 > 0:26:17for Gatwick? Part of that private finance is passengers of the future,
0:26:17 > 0:26:21but also, the costs of the surface transport needed to expand Heathrow
0:26:21 > 0:26:30is phenomenal. I mean, TfL estimates vary between £10 billion and £15
0:26:30 > 0:26:33billion. And there's no suggestion that those private backers are going
0:26:33 > 0:26:38to meet those costs. So, this is a hugely expensive project as well as
0:26:38 > 0:26:42one which will create very significant damage.Heathrow is
0:26:42 > 0:26:45ultimately where passengers and airlines want to go to, isn't it?
0:26:45 > 0:26:49Every slot is practically full. Every time a new one comes up, it is
0:26:49 > 0:26:55up immediately, it's a very popular airport. Gatwick is not where they
0:26:55 > 0:26:58want to go?There are many airlines and passengers who do want to fly
0:26:58 > 0:27:03from Gatwick, and all the forecasts indicate that a new runway there
0:27:03 > 0:27:07would be full of planes very rapidly. But I think the key thing
0:27:07 > 0:27:12is that successive elements have said, technology will deliver a way
0:27:12 > 0:27:18to resolve the around noise and air quality. I don't have any confidence
0:27:18 > 0:27:22that science has demonstrated that technology will deliver those
0:27:22 > 0:27:27solutions to these very serious environmental limbs which have
0:27:27 > 0:27:29stopped Heathrow expansion for decades.Jim Fitzpatrick in the film
0:27:29 > 0:27:34was mentioning that people think there is a need for even more
0:27:34 > 0:27:37collectivity in Britain post-Brexit. We know that business has been
0:27:37 > 0:27:40crying out for more routes, they really think it hurts business
0:27:40 > 0:27:45expansion that we don't get on with this. More consultation is just
0:27:45 > 0:27:49going to lead to more delay, isn't it?This is a hugely controversial
0:27:49 > 0:27:52decision. There is a reason why people have been talking about
0:27:52 > 0:27:55expanding Heathrow for 50 years and it is never happened, it's because
0:27:55 > 0:28:00it's a bad idea. So, inevitably the legal processes are very complex.
0:28:00 > 0:28:05One of my anxieties about, pursuing this option is that potentially it
0:28:05 > 0:28:08means another lost decade for airport expansion. Because the
0:28:08 > 0:28:14problems with Heathrow expansion are so serious, I believe that's one of
0:28:14 > 0:28:17the reasons why I advocated, anyone who wants a new runway in the
0:28:17 > 0:28:21south-east should be backing Gatwick is a much more deliverable option.
0:28:21 > 0:28:27Let me move on to Brexit. We were talking with Hilary Benn about a
0:28:27 > 0:28:30meaningful vote being given to the House of Commons chukka how
0:28:30 > 0:28:33important do you think that is?Of course the Commons will vote on
0:28:33 > 0:28:39this. The Commons is going to vote on this many, many times. We have
0:28:39 > 0:28:42also had a hugely important vote not only in the referendum on the 23rd
0:28:42 > 0:28:46of June but also on Article 50.But will that vote allow any changes to
0:28:46 > 0:28:52it? Hilary Benn seemed to think that the Commons would be able to shape
0:28:52 > 0:28:56the deal with the vote. But actually is it going to be, saying, take it
0:28:56 > 0:29:01or leave it at all what we have negotiated?Our Prime Minister
0:29:01 > 0:29:06negotiates on our behalf internationally. It's
0:29:06 > 0:29:08well-established precedent that after an agreement is reached
0:29:08 > 0:29:14overseas, then it is considered in the House of Commons.What if it was
0:29:14 > 0:29:18voted down in the House of Commons? Well, the legal effect of that would
0:29:18 > 0:29:21be that we left the European Union without any kind of deal, because
0:29:21 > 0:29:26the key decision was on the voting of Article 50 as an irreversible
0:29:26 > 0:29:31decision.Is it irreversible, though? We understand, may have had
0:29:31 > 0:29:35legal advice saying that Yukon stopped the clock on Article 50.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38Would it not be possible if the Commons voted against to ask the
0:29:38 > 0:29:41European Union for a little bit more time to try and renegotiate?There
0:29:41 > 0:29:50is a debate about the reversibility of Article 50. But the key point is
0:29:50 > 0:29:56that we are all working for a good deal for the United Kingdom and the
0:29:56 > 0:30:00I'm concerned that some of the amendments to the legislation are
0:30:00 > 0:30:03not about the nature of the deal at the end of the process, they're just
0:30:03 > 0:30:10about frustrating the process. I think that would be wrong. I think
0:30:10 > 0:30:13we should respect the result of the referendum.Will it be by next
0:30:13 > 0:30:16summer, so there is time for Parliament and for other
0:30:16 > 0:30:18parliaments?I certainly hope that we get that agreement between the
0:30:18 > 0:30:24two sides, and the recent European summit seemed to indicate a
0:30:24 > 0:30:28willingness from the European side to be constructive. But one point
0:30:28 > 0:30:32where I think Hilary Benn has a point, if we do secure agreement on
0:30:32 > 0:30:35a transitional deal, that does potentially give us more time to
0:30:35 > 0:30:40work on the details of a trade agreement. I hope we get as much as
0:30:40 > 0:30:44possible in place before exit day. But filling out some of that detail
0:30:44 > 0:30:52is made easier if we can secure that two-year transitional deal.
0:30:52 > 0:30:59That is interesting because a lot of Brexiteers what the deal to be done
0:30:59 > 0:31:06by the inflammation period, it is not a time for that.I fully
0:31:06 > 0:31:11recognise we need compromise, I am keen to work with people across my
0:31:11 > 0:31:15party in terms of spectrum of opinion, and with other parties as
0:31:15 > 0:31:20well to ensure we get the best outcome.Let me ask you briefly
0:31:20 > 0:31:24before you go about the possible culture of sexual harassment in the
0:31:24 > 0:31:29House of commons and Theresa May will write to the Speaker of the
0:31:29 > 0:31:33House of Commons to make sure there is a better way that people can
0:31:33 > 0:31:37report sexual harassment in the House of commons. Is that necessary?
0:31:37 > 0:31:43A better procedure is needed. It is sad it has taken this controversy to
0:31:43 > 0:31:48push this forward. But there is a problem with MPs who are individual
0:31:48 > 0:31:53employers. If you work for an MP and have a complaint against them,
0:31:53 > 0:31:56essentially they are overseeing their own complaints process. I
0:31:56 > 0:32:01think a role for the House of commons authorities in ensuring that
0:32:01 > 0:32:04those complaints are properly dealt with I think would be very helpful,
0:32:04 > 0:32:09so I think the Prime Minister's letter was a sensible move.So you
0:32:09 > 0:32:13think there is a culture of sexual harassment in the House of commons?
0:32:13 > 0:32:19I have not been subjected to it or seen evidence of it, but obviously
0:32:19 > 0:32:23there is anxiety and allegations have made their way into the papers
0:32:23 > 0:32:27and they should be treated appropriately and properly
0:32:27 > 0:32:28investigated.Thank you for talking to us.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31Thank you for talking to us.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33Next week the Lord Speaker's committee publishes its final report
0:32:33 > 0:32:35into reducing the size of the House of Lords.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38With over 800 members the upper house is the second largest
0:32:38 > 0:32:40legislative chamber in the world after the National People's
0:32:40 > 0:32:41Congress of China.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44The report is expected to recommend that new peerages should be
0:32:44 > 0:32:46time-limited to 15 years and that in the future political peerage
0:32:46 > 0:32:51appointments will also be tied to a party's election performance.
0:32:51 > 0:32:53The government has been under pressure to take action to cut
0:32:53 > 0:32:57members of the unelected chamber, where they are entitled
0:32:57 > 0:33:00to claim an attendance allowance of £300 a day.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04And once again these expenses have been in the news.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06The Electoral Reform Society discovered that 16 peers had claimed
0:33:06 > 0:33:09around £400,000 without speaking in any debates or submitting any
0:33:09 > 0:33:13questions for an entire year.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15One of the Lords to be criticised was Digby Jones,
0:33:15 > 0:33:19the crossbencher and former trade minister, he hasn't spoken
0:33:19 > 0:33:22in the Lords since April 2016 and has voted only seven times
0:33:22 > 0:33:25during 2016 and 2017.
0:33:25 > 0:33:29Yet he has claimed around £15,000 in this period.
0:33:29 > 0:33:32When asked what he does in the House he said,
0:33:32 > 0:33:34"I go in and I will invite for lunch or meet with inward
0:33:34 > 0:33:36investors into the country.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39I fly the flag for Britain."
0:33:39 > 0:33:42Well, we can speak now to Lord Jones who joins us
0:33:42 > 0:33:46from Stratford Upon Avon.
0:33:46 > 0:33:51Thank you very much for talking to us. You provide value for money in
0:33:51 > 0:33:58the House of Lords do you think? Definitely. I am, by the way, very
0:33:58 > 0:34:02keen on reform. I want to see that 15 year tide. I would like to see a
0:34:02 > 0:34:08time limit, an age limit of 75 or 80. I would like attendants
0:34:08 > 0:34:12definitely define so the whole public understood what people are
0:34:12 > 0:34:19paying for and why. The £300, as a crossbencher I get no support, and
0:34:19 > 0:34:27nor do I want any, speech writing, secretarial assistance, none of
0:34:27 > 0:34:31that, and the £300 goes towards that.Whilst you are in there
0:34:31 > 0:34:36because we will talk about the reform of the Lords in general, but
0:34:36 > 0:34:39in terms of you yourself, you say you invite people in for lunch, is
0:34:39 > 0:34:43it not possible for you to take part in debates and votes and ask
0:34:43 > 0:34:48questions at the same time?Have you ever listened to a debate in the
0:34:48 > 0:35:01laws? Yes, many times.Yes, many times. You have to put your name
0:35:01 > 0:35:09down in advance and you have to be there for the whole debate.You have
0:35:09 > 0:35:12to be around when the vote is called and you do not know when the book is
0:35:12 > 0:35:16called, you have no idea when the boat is going to be called.This is
0:35:16 > 0:35:22part of being a member of the House of Lords and what it means. If you
0:35:22 > 0:35:26are not prepared to wait or take part in debates, why do you want to
0:35:26 > 0:35:31be a member? It is possible to resign from the House of Lords.
0:35:31 > 0:35:35There are many things members of the Lords do that does not relate to
0:35:35 > 0:35:40parrot fashion following somebody else, which I refuse to do, about
0:35:40 > 0:35:45speaking to an empty chamber, or indeed hanging on sometimes for
0:35:45 > 0:35:50hours to vote. There are many other things that you do. You quote me as
0:35:50 > 0:35:54saying I will entertain at lunchtime or show people around the House,
0:35:54 > 0:35:58everything from schoolchildren to inward investors. I will meet
0:35:58 > 0:36:01ministers about big business issues or educational issues, and at the
0:36:01 > 0:36:06same time I will meet other members of the Lords to get things moving.
0:36:06 > 0:36:10None of that relates to going into the House and getting on your hind
0:36:10 > 0:36:14legs, although I do go in and sit there and learn and listen to
0:36:14 > 0:36:20others, which, if more people would receive and not transmit, we might
0:36:20 > 0:36:24get a better informed society. At the same time many times I will go
0:36:24 > 0:36:29after I have listened and I am leaving and if I have not heard the
0:36:29 > 0:36:35debate, I will not vote.Voting is an essential part of being part of a
0:36:35 > 0:36:40legislative chamber. This is not just an executive committee, it is a
0:36:40 > 0:36:45legislature, surpassing that law is essential, is it not?Do you really
0:36:45 > 0:36:49believe that an MP or a member of the Lords who has not heard a moment
0:36:49 > 0:36:56of the debate, who is then listening to the Bell, walks in and does not
0:36:56 > 0:37:00know which lobby, the whips tell him, they have not heard the debate
0:37:00 > 0:37:05and they do not know what they are voting on and they go and do it?
0:37:05 > 0:37:11That is your democracy? Voting seems to be an essential part of this
0:37:11 > 0:37:15chamber, and you have your ideas about reforming the chamber. It
0:37:15 > 0:37:19sounds as though you would reform yourself out of it. You say people
0:37:19 > 0:37:22who are not voting and who are not taking part in debate should no
0:37:22 > 0:37:29longer be members of the House.I did not say that. I said we ought to
0:37:29 > 0:37:34redefine what attendance means and then if you do not attend on the new
0:37:34 > 0:37:37criteria, you do not have to come ever again, we will give you your
0:37:37 > 0:37:43wish. I agree attendance might mean unless you speak, you are going.
0:37:43 > 0:37:48Fair enough, if that is what is agreed, yes. Sometimes I would speak
0:37:48 > 0:37:54and sometimes I would not. If I did not, then off I go. Similarly after
0:37:54 > 0:38:0015 years, off you go. If you reach 75 or 80, off you go. Why do we have
0:38:00 > 0:38:0692 members who are only there because of daddy.You are talking
0:38:06 > 0:38:09about hereditary peers. You would like to reduce the House to what
0:38:09 > 0:38:15kind of number?I would get it down to 400.You would get rid of half
0:38:15 > 0:38:19the peers there at the moment? You think you are active enough to
0:38:19 > 0:38:27remain as one of the 400?No, I said that might well include me. Let's
0:38:27 > 0:38:32get a set of criteria, let's push it through, because the laws is losing
0:38:32 > 0:38:36respect in the whole of the country because there are too many and all
0:38:36 > 0:38:39these things about what people pay for. I bet most people think the
0:38:39 > 0:38:45money you get is paid. It is not, it is re-funding for all the things you
0:38:45 > 0:38:50have to pay for yourself. But I understand how respect has been lost
0:38:50 > 0:38:55in society. Let's change it now. Let's get it through and then, yes,
0:38:55 > 0:39:00if you do not meet the criteria, you have got to go and that includes me.
0:39:00 > 0:39:02Lloyd Jones, thank you for talking to us.
0:39:02 > 0:39:05Lloyd Jones, thank you for talking to us.
0:39:05 > 0:39:07It's coming up to 11.40, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
0:39:07 > 0:39:10Coming up on the programme, we'll be talking to the former
0:39:10 > 0:39:12business minister and Conservative MP Anna Soubry about the Brexit
0:39:12 > 0:39:22negotiations and claims of sexual harassment in Parliament.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25In the East Midlands: The sweet smell of success -
0:39:25 > 0:39:27the region's sugar beet industry is booming and looking forward
0:39:27 > 0:39:31to life after Brexit.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34We'll be finding out why Brexit gives opportunity to send what comes
0:39:34 > 0:39:40from fields in the East Midlands around the world.
0:39:40 > 0:39:42And it's a five billion pound industry and growing,
0:39:42 > 0:39:45but could the East Midlands make even more from tourism?
0:39:45 > 0:39:46It's been wonderful.
0:39:46 > 0:39:50A great day out.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53We visited two museums and here at the King Richard Museum.
0:39:53 > 0:39:54I think it's great.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57It is actually my second day being here because you get a
0:39:57 > 0:39:59return ticket.
0:39:59 > 0:40:04I just want to sweep around this again.
0:40:04 > 0:40:08Hello, I'm Marie Ashby my guests this week - Maggie Throup
0:40:08 > 0:40:10is the Conservative MP for Erewash and Liz Kendall is
0:40:10 > 0:40:11Labour's Leicester West MP.
0:40:11 > 0:40:12Welcome both.
0:40:12 > 0:40:15First an issue you're both passionate about -
0:40:17 > 0:40:19Social care and how we pay for it.
0:40:19 > 0:40:21In fact in the House of Commons this week,
0:40:21 > 0:40:31you followed each other in a debate called by Labour on the subject.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35And Maggie Throup, you talked about your 94 year old father
0:40:35 > 0:40:42who's in a care home.
0:40:42 > 0:40:48do.So I've seen just what is needed and what are the future and the
0:40:48 > 0:40:49demands that will be around.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51demands that will be around.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53You praised the NHS but were critical of successive
0:40:53 > 0:40:55administrations for failing to prepare our social care system
0:40:55 > 0:41:05for an ageing population with complex illnesses.
0:41:05 > 0:41:10That's right. Today, people are living through conditions they would
0:41:10 > 0:41:15never have lived through before. Heart attacks, strokes, cancer. And
0:41:15 > 0:41:18their needs are changing so the NHS has been a double-edged sword. And
0:41:18 > 0:41:22we need to look at how we support people through social care and we
0:41:22 > 0:41:24really need to do something quite dramatic to make those changes.
0:41:24 > 0:41:28You want cross-party consensus on this?
0:41:28 > 0:41:35Yes. We saw what happened at the last election with a conservative
0:41:35 > 0:41:39proposals dubbed the dementia tax. Labour's appraisals were called a
0:41:39 > 0:41:47death tax and I can go on. It will be older and disabled people who
0:41:47 > 0:41:50suffer. If you want lasting change we have to get cross-party
0:41:50 > 0:41:57agreement. I am working with others to call on the Prime Minister to set
0:41:57 > 0:42:00up back party convention. What is your Government planning to
0:42:00 > 0:42:06do? We have people coming up shortly and I'm pushing to bring health and
0:42:06 > 0:42:08care together under one roof. They are so intrinsically linked I don't
0:42:08 > 0:42:13think we can separate it any longer. We need to be bold and brave. We
0:42:13 > 0:42:16need cross-party support. For too many years and too many successive
0:42:16 > 0:42:20governments people have failed to make a decision and it is about time
0:42:20 > 0:42:23that politicians did actually make a decision for the future of our
0:42:23 > 0:42:25elderly and the most vulnerable in society.
0:42:25 > 0:42:32We also need, clearly, an immediate injection of cash in the Budget for
0:42:32 > 0:42:37the NHS and social care. The pressures are huge. Older people are
0:42:37 > 0:42:39suffering and disabled people and their family carers. We need that
0:42:39 > 0:42:43immediate injection of cash and a longer term cross arty approach.
0:42:43 > 0:42:49It is not just cash but how to carry out that Budget.
0:42:49 > 0:42:54Money doesn't solve the problems. But it is hugely needed. I am a
0:42:54 > 0:42:57strong champion of reform. I agree, one Budget, one commissioning body
0:42:57 > 0:43:00for help and social care will better meet people's needs.
0:43:00 > 0:43:03In the last Budget the chance that put £2 billion more into the pot. We
0:43:03 > 0:43:05go on and on and on, we need reform as well.
0:43:05 > 0:43:11From funding social care to imagine the quest for all of our MPs to work
0:43:11 > 0:43:16together to get more money for the whole region. East Midlands councils
0:43:16 > 0:43:19which represent our local authorities are looking at how much
0:43:19 > 0:43:22money comes from central Government and it seems that we're getting
0:43:22 > 0:43:27something of a raw deal. If report says that the East Midlands get that
0:43:27 > 0:43:30lowest level of funding per head of economic development, public
0:43:30 > 0:43:34transport and on rail. The region is the third levels for spending on
0:43:34 > 0:43:40health, education, and overall public spending. In fact, the
0:43:40 > 0:43:44average public spending per head in the East Midlands is £8,237. That is
0:43:44 > 0:43:48more than £500 less than our neighbours in the West Midlands. And
0:43:48 > 0:43:56almost £1000 less than people living in northern powerhouse areas. We
0:43:56 > 0:43:58obviously have highlighted this issue many, many times on this
0:43:58 > 0:44:02programme. But looking at the stake as it is pretty shocking.
0:44:02 > 0:44:04The lowest funding per head of economic development and public
0:44:04 > 0:44:11transport just a start. It is a problem. And I think sometimes
0:44:11 > 0:44:16everybody blames each other. And I think the East Midlands council
0:44:16 > 0:44:18really need to communicate more. And together with people like myself and
0:44:18 > 0:44:26Liz so we can lobby the Government fully. DHS to growth strategy that
0:44:26 > 0:44:29was produced a couple of weeks ago, I don't know about it until after it
0:44:29 > 0:44:37was launched. Yet HS2 really affects my constituency. If the council are
0:44:37 > 0:44:39concerned about the funding want to bring initially talking to people
0:44:39 > 0:44:43like myself. They've written to you asking for
0:44:43 > 0:44:45your help, Berliners's help, have you reply to them on that?
0:44:45 > 0:44:51I have not reply directly butterfingers two-way underling to
0:44:51 > 0:44:54look at themselves as well what they are doing to communicate with us.
0:44:54 > 0:44:58To share what their vision is as well so we can lobby on their
0:44:58 > 0:45:04behalf. What do you say? Will they get the help they are
0:45:04 > 0:45:07asking for? I hope that they do. But I'm not holding my breath. The
0:45:07 > 0:45:12problem is not that they are not communicate with us, the problem is
0:45:12 > 0:45:16the Government does not have a strategy to rebalance the economy
0:45:16 > 0:45:18across the regions. Only London and the south-east have seen their
0:45:18 > 0:45:24economies go back to the crisis levels.
0:45:24 > 0:45:29We have a very geographically unbalanced economy and very unequal
0:45:29 > 0:45:31economy. So what is the answer, then?
0:45:31 > 0:45:34Firstly, we need investment in infrastructure, and wrote, in
0:45:34 > 0:45:39Braille. We need more investment in skills, those things are crucial to
0:45:39 > 0:45:41boosting productivity, which is essential if the economy as a whole
0:45:41 > 0:45:45is going to grow. And if we're going to see some of
0:45:45 > 0:45:50that growth come back into people's earnings.Theresa May says this is a
0:45:50 > 0:45:51priority for her to rebalance the economy.
0:45:51 > 0:45:55But nothing has been done. Nothing has been done since the financial
0:45:55 > 0:45:59crash. My real concern is that we are still too reliant on London and
0:45:59 > 0:46:01the south-east and financial services. We're not seeing that
0:46:01 > 0:46:06growth and productivity coming back up in the regions like these.
0:46:06 > 0:46:09But sometimes we don't actually sing and shout about what we got another
0:46:09 > 0:46:11region. You're supposed to be doing that. I
0:46:11 > 0:46:17did that in Parliament all the time. What Rolls-Royce, we've got Toyota,
0:46:17 > 0:46:22we've got the research that comes out of the universities in our area.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25It will either softly to health Minister with responsibility life
0:46:25 > 0:46:27sciences. We are committed to light sign
0:46:27 > 0:46:31strategy as well. This is something that affects all of us in every
0:46:31 > 0:46:34aspect of our lives, the way we get around, how we work, the kind of
0:46:34 > 0:46:41jobs that we will have the future. There has been so much talk over the
0:46:41 > 0:46:44years of MPs working together on this but nothing really seems to
0:46:44 > 0:46:48have changed. Actually we have been working
0:46:48 > 0:46:50together on the electrification of the Midland mainline, which the
0:46:50 > 0:46:53Government started stopped, started and stopped again. That is something
0:46:53 > 0:46:57that is good to go and make a big difference. We need greater
0:46:57 > 0:46:59conductivity with East Midland airport and we really need to
0:46:59 > 0:47:06address this issue of funding in skills as well. Our people are our
0:47:06 > 0:47:10best assets. With huge leaders, universities, businesses. But they
0:47:10 > 0:47:13need support from Government, too. And the problem is, unless the
0:47:13 > 0:47:18Chancellor and the Prime Minister understand how to rebalance the
0:47:18 > 0:47:22economy, and what steps are needed, we will not see that action.
0:47:22 > 0:47:24Championing greatness alone is not going to deliver.
0:47:24 > 0:47:30We've got to work together. We should not be talking down the East
0:47:30 > 0:47:33Midlands, which were talking up the East Midlands.
0:47:33 > 0:47:37However you dress this up it does seem we're getting a really raw deal
0:47:37 > 0:47:39heel. £500 per head less than neighbours in the West Midlands.
0:47:39 > 0:47:46How can that be justified?It cannot be. What will it restrict me is we
0:47:46 > 0:47:49have the Midlands in June and it is all talking about the West Midlands.
0:47:49 > 0:47:52Let's talk about the East Midlands. Let's shout and go and fight for
0:47:52 > 0:47:58that money. Shafting alone isn't going to work. -- shouting alone is
0:47:58 > 0:48:02not going to work. I do not believe the Government has a strategy for
0:48:02 > 0:48:05rebalancing the economy and dealing with the biggest problem that we've
0:48:05 > 0:48:09got, which is wage stagnation. The British economy is not delivering
0:48:09 > 0:48:12rising earnings for the majority of the population. Until we grasp that
0:48:12 > 0:48:16we will never see the economy increase.
0:48:16 > 0:48:22Make the investment in the roads and railways. We are having investment
0:48:22 > 0:48:25as well. Just look at my constituency. We've got a new
0:48:25 > 0:48:32railway station. There is continuing lobbying from my predecessor and I
0:48:32 > 0:48:35continued that. The County Council would have let it die but I was
0:48:35 > 0:48:39determined to get that. The score by the East Midlands
0:48:39 > 0:48:42councils is a real court action for urgent action, will they see that
0:48:42 > 0:48:44happen? We need to get together. We need to
0:48:44 > 0:48:49see what we can each do to work together to find out what needs to
0:48:49 > 0:48:55be working. When reports put in front of us that actually they're
0:48:55 > 0:49:02not taking the local knowledge of what would work best to provide
0:49:02 > 0:49:04instruction about HS2, that is concerning.
0:49:04 > 0:49:07You will be talking to the smooth and councils? No reason why not.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09Thank you.
0:49:09 > 0:49:11And now another plea for the region to work together -
0:49:11 > 0:49:12this time on Tourism.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15The East Midlands has just had a record year.
0:49:15 > 0:49:17The weak pound is helping boost visitor numbers and Derbyshire has
0:49:17 > 0:49:20become the first county in the region to earn more
0:49:20 > 0:49:22than two billion pounds a year from tourists.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25But are we making the most of our world famous venues and history?
0:49:25 > 0:49:29Alex Hamilton has been finding out.
0:49:29 > 0:49:31There's no shortage of tourists in the East Midlands. Visitors are
0:49:31 > 0:49:38pouring in to Hardwick Hall. History is a big attraction here in the
0:49:38 > 0:49:41shape of the best of Hardwick, the 16th century serial widow who built
0:49:41 > 0:49:46a hawk from a fortune amassed from a series of marriages. And tourism is
0:49:46 > 0:49:52big business in the East Midlands. It is worth more than £2 billion to
0:49:52 > 0:49:55Derbyshire alone. As Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire are not too far
0:49:55 > 0:50:00behind. And it's not just here. Councils across the region reckon we
0:50:00 > 0:50:03have seen 100 million visitors this year.
0:50:03 > 0:50:06So where are the coming from? People are coming from all postcodes across
0:50:06 > 0:50:09the country but also, hard look as good an international collection and
0:50:09 > 0:50:12so we see quite a lot of international visitors from all
0:50:12 > 0:50:15areas across the world coming to see us to discover more about our story
0:50:15 > 0:50:21here. We have Christmas opening coming up soon.
0:50:21 > 0:50:26We'll see a lot more local audience. Derbyshire may top the table locally
0:50:26 > 0:50:29in terms of the value of tourism to its local economy. But it is
0:50:29 > 0:50:33Leicester and Leicestershire that is the rest of the last year, figures
0:50:33 > 0:50:38are up 5%, perhaps some of the other cities will start looking for a king
0:50:38 > 0:50:41under their car park. What we have seen as investors with
0:50:41 > 0:50:45a lot more confidence in the city and county. Particularly in new
0:50:45 > 0:50:50hotels, for example. We will get new hotels, 500 bed spaces in the next
0:50:50 > 0:50:52few years. That is unprecedented for Leicester
0:50:52 > 0:50:56and a sign of confidence in the future. It is clear there is a lot
0:50:56 > 0:50:58to draw tourists to the East Midlands.
0:50:58 > 0:51:00Whether they are local, national or international visitors. We come from
0:51:00 > 0:51:06Hong Kong to visit our son in Nottingham University. He is
0:51:06 > 0:51:12studying today and then we come over here to a nearby city to have a look
0:51:12 > 0:51:14at Leicester. It been wonderful. A great day out.
0:51:14 > 0:51:19We visited two museums and here at the King Richard Museum.
0:51:19 > 0:51:22I figured as great. It is actually my second day being here because you
0:51:22 > 0:51:27get a return ticket. I just want to sleep around this again. It's really
0:51:27 > 0:51:33interesting. The ones who come here may be happy
0:51:33 > 0:51:35but our local council is missing a trick. Could Robin Hood helped
0:51:35 > 0:51:43Leicester's famous King Richard hit new targets? And could the National
0:51:43 > 0:51:46space Centre propel the stately homes to new heights? The leader of
0:51:46 > 0:51:50Derbyshire County Council reckons working together to could boost
0:51:50 > 0:51:53numbers still further. We can do so much more by working
0:51:53 > 0:51:56with the East Midlands Airport. They arrived for international tourists
0:51:56 > 0:51:59to tourists to come to this region and it is about how we disperse
0:51:59 > 0:52:03those tourists across the region. And working together to make sure
0:52:03 > 0:52:07that we are targeting places like London, for example. The vast
0:52:07 > 0:52:10majority of tourists coming. How do we disperse those out of London and
0:52:10 > 0:52:13into the East Midlands. When we got to work together quite closely
0:52:13 > 0:52:16around that to make sure that happens.
0:52:16 > 0:52:19Whatever the outcome of Brexit come off the sun visitors now are on the
0:52:19 > 0:52:19up.
0:52:19 > 0:52:23up.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26A positive outlook there but could we be doing more to attract more
0:52:26 > 0:52:32visitors? I think we could. I think
0:52:32 > 0:52:35Derbyshire, particularly, that of the area I know really well. We have
0:52:35 > 0:52:38something plastic countryside but also some other places. A lot of
0:52:38 > 0:52:43museums, celebrating the standing ironworks and quite a lot of our
0:52:43 > 0:52:50history. We have a fantastic theatre in Nuneaton and we attracted over
0:52:50 > 0:52:5515,000 visitors to the National waterways Festival. It was one of
0:52:55 > 0:52:57the hot weekend in August and people couldn't really see Derbyshire and
0:52:57 > 0:53:02the area. It was beautiful, as you say. Can
0:53:02 > 0:53:05you really say, as Barry Lewis was saying there from the County
0:53:05 > 0:53:09Council, that people will come up from London to go to some of the
0:53:09 > 0:53:13places you have been talking about? London tourists go there for very
0:53:13 > 0:53:18specific reasons, don't they? Is it a capital in all its attractions.
0:53:18 > 0:53:22She really targeting London tourists? Absolutely we should be.
0:53:22 > 0:53:25Offer to the third we've also got a great comedy festival in Leicester,
0:53:25 > 0:53:28we need to be able to promote our work. I am concerned that some cuts
0:53:28 > 0:53:35the local council has Howard will reduce the amount we will spend on
0:53:35 > 0:53:38marketing, the fantastic tourist attractions we have here. And we go
0:53:38 > 0:53:41back to the previous discussion about making sure we have the road
0:53:41 > 0:53:44and rail infrastructure to link us up. But I think that is absolutely
0:53:44 > 0:53:49right. To provide a package to attract Londoners to our region to
0:53:49 > 0:53:52see what fantastic things we've got, and it's really important.
0:53:52 > 0:53:55Do you think that could happen? I don't see why not. We have the
0:53:55 > 0:53:58mechanisms now. We can use the Internet as I know a lot of people
0:53:58 > 0:54:04go from London's to Stratford, at York. And through Derbyshire to do
0:54:04 > 0:54:07that transition. Let's make sure they can stop here
0:54:07 > 0:54:12as well. Leicester is really reaping the rewards, isn't it?
0:54:12 > 0:54:14It has been fantastic. I think there's more that we can do in
0:54:14 > 0:54:20future and I hope campaigners around the world, that's our ambition.
0:54:20 > 0:54:22Next: As Brexit continues to dominate the national agenda,
0:54:22 > 0:54:24many businesses are wondering what life outside the
0:54:24 > 0:54:25European Union will look like.
0:54:25 > 0:54:29Well one East Midlands industry is getting a glimpse -
0:54:29 > 0:54:31sugar beet producers have no quotas, and no fixed prices to contend
0:54:31 > 0:54:34with after they were scrapped by the EU at the beginning
0:54:34 > 0:54:35of this month.
0:54:35 > 0:54:39So how will they cope and what does it tell us about the future
0:54:39 > 0:54:40for other sectors after we leave?
0:54:40 > 0:54:48Here's our Political Editor Tony Roe.
0:54:48 > 0:54:51From soil in the East Midlands to sugar bag, six out of ten adults are
0:54:51 > 0:54:58oblivious to the fact that we produce sugar in Britain. Six of
0:54:58 > 0:55:02these, and they are quite heavy, produce one bag of sugar. 60% of the
0:55:02 > 0:55:04sugar we use comes from home grown sugar beet.
0:55:04 > 0:55:07For our farmers, it is a lifeline. Sugar beet for us is an important
0:55:07 > 0:55:14crop because we're careful how we grow the sugar, and the sugar beet,
0:55:14 > 0:55:17we actually make some decent money. It is usually one of our better
0:55:17 > 0:55:23paying crops on the farm. This field is 11 miles from the British sugar
0:55:23 > 0:55:28plant. The average distance from the old factory is 28 miles. For almost
0:55:28 > 0:55:3250 years, the EU quota system has limited what farmers can grow. That
0:55:32 > 0:55:35has ended. It is news for British Sugar, which processes 10,000 times
0:55:35 > 0:55:40a day here. When we had the quota system up to
0:55:40 > 0:55:42October of this year we were restricted in terms of how much we
0:55:42 > 0:55:48could produce and sell. And we were restricted from selling
0:55:48 > 0:55:50on to the world market. And after Brexit they believe they will be
0:55:50 > 0:55:55able to be competitive on those world markets as farmers yield per
0:55:55 > 0:55:59acre is on the up, too. We see it as an opportunity to grow
0:55:59 > 0:56:03as a business. We are a really efficient business and we see the
0:56:03 > 0:56:08industry growing by up to 50% compared with last year. We have
0:56:08 > 0:56:12already grown by 30% this year, and we could go beyond that, working
0:56:12 > 0:56:15closely with our progress. I can see us cutting down on the
0:56:15 > 0:56:19acreage and growing more sugar beet because the soil type we have suits
0:56:19 > 0:56:24it. We grow good crops of sugar beet and we lifted early and are able to
0:56:24 > 0:56:27get a good week in after that. These remain uncertain times for
0:56:27 > 0:56:30farmers. There is a real fear that a vote in Brussels this year failing
0:56:30 > 0:56:33to approve the use a widely used chemical will be damaging for the
0:56:33 > 0:56:37industry. Sign should dictate whether we can
0:56:37 > 0:56:42use these products are not. And at the moment, with this issue, it is
0:56:42 > 0:56:46politics that is dictating it. Playing with people's livelihoods,
0:56:46 > 0:56:50displaying with genuine safe food production and politics should not
0:56:50 > 0:56:52have that amount of influence. Then there is the Government push to
0:56:52 > 0:57:00wean us off sugar treats. Does it worry the industry? Not as much as
0:57:00 > 0:57:02you would expect. Demand not dropping, it is used in far more
0:57:02 > 0:57:03than fizzy drinks.
0:57:03 > 0:57:06than fizzy drinks.
0:57:06 > 0:57:09It sounds confident of us live outside the EU perhaps there is a
0:57:09 > 0:57:15message therefore other businesses? I think they are a highly efficient
0:57:15 > 0:57:19and productive company. They will be looking to export across the world
0:57:19 > 0:57:23and they need all the support that they can get in doing that but I do
0:57:23 > 0:57:29know many other farmers are worried about what will happen when we leave
0:57:29 > 0:57:35the EU, what will happen to tariffs on their goods. If we end up with no
0:57:35 > 0:57:44deal, that is a 5% tariff on beef, 6% on dairy. Our food and doing
0:57:44 > 0:57:48manufacturers are also concerned about that. So it is an excellent
0:57:48 > 0:57:50success story but there's nothing stopping from exporting before we
0:57:50 > 0:57:56even leave the EU. But there are real worries, if we are out of the
0:57:56 > 0:58:00single market and the customs union, the NFU says it will be an absolute
0:58:00 > 0:58:06disaster. And if you look at the wider industries, across the East
0:58:06 > 0:58:08Midlands, car manufacturing, acute concern that there is no deal. We
0:58:08 > 0:58:15had Toyota this week urging the Government to lift the fog of
0:58:15 > 0:58:18uncertainty. So what businesses want a certainty. They wanted transition
0:58:18 > 0:58:20deal and I think the Government should be committing to one that is
0:58:20 > 0:58:28keeping us in the single market and the customs union and the very least
0:58:28 > 0:58:30for the transition. There is uncertainty out there.
0:58:30 > 0:58:33There is. We will not do well in negotiations in public. That is not
0:58:33 > 0:58:38the way we conduct business at all. What we've seen here with the sugar
0:58:38 > 0:58:42beet industry is really good news and it shows that there is life
0:58:42 > 0:58:46outside of the EU. What I think we do need to look at is the domestic
0:58:46 > 0:58:49agricultural policy. So we can get everything in place over the next
0:58:49 > 0:58:51couple of years and the transition period as well. The Prime Minister
0:58:51 > 0:58:56has committed to a transition period.
0:58:56 > 0:59:05You mentioned the industry as well, it is looking at it set by sector.
0:59:05 > 0:59:09We have the strategy and it will be on a sector by sector basis.
0:59:09 > 0:59:15Not knowing what radio we're going to get us a real problem. On Monday,
0:59:15 > 0:59:17the Prime Minister told MPs there will not be a transition deal until
0:59:17 > 0:59:21the future trade deal has been agreed which means there will be a
0:59:21 > 0:59:24complete and utter cliff edge. Businesses cannot wait. They need to
0:59:24 > 0:59:31make decisions by the end of this year or early next year. It is... A
0:59:31 > 0:59:34complete shambles on Brexit this week from the Prime Minister. A
0:59:34 > 0:59:36complete lack of clarity on the transition deal and whether
0:59:36 > 0:59:40Parliament will have the final say and it is not good enough.
0:59:40 > 0:59:42It is quite clear. The majority of people voted for
0:59:42 > 0:59:51Brexit. No one is denying that. That's not even...
0:59:51 > 0:59:54That is not even in question. What about the transition deal? Obviously
0:59:54 > 0:59:59we know that the 29th of March 2019 of the day we will leave the EU. But
0:59:59 > 1:00:02what the Prime Minister has been quite clear about in her speech is
1:00:02 > 1:00:08there will be a transition period after that. Businesses can adapt to
1:00:08 > 1:00:10the changes. The whole point about the transition
1:00:10 > 1:00:13deal is they know now. Businesses need to take decisions now about
1:00:13 > 1:00:16whether they can best, where they can be based, what will happen to
1:00:16 > 1:00:23their staff. They cannot wait. The divisions within the Tory party have
1:00:23 > 1:00:29absolutely... Listen, the Tory party is completely split.
1:00:29 > 1:00:32Let's not talk about it. Why not? We need to talk about it. This is
1:00:32 > 1:00:35because of delays. The future of our country is about
1:00:35 > 1:00:41getting a good deal from the EU so we can move and we can export, we
1:00:41 > 1:00:48can take... Waiting to find out what that deal
1:00:48 > 1:00:50will be. We will not start those talks are
1:00:50 > 1:00:52we? Until December. Thank you both.
1:00:52 > 1:00:53Thank you both.
1:00:53 > 1:00:55Time now to catch up with some of the other political
1:00:55 > 1:00:58stories of the week - here's Tony, with 60 seconds.
1:00:58 > 1:01:00The plight of an elite skater from Nottingham who can't
1:01:00 > 1:01:03use his sport towards a GCSE is to be raised in Parliament.
1:01:03 > 1:01:06He is a speed skater, but his sport is not on
1:01:06 > 1:01:07the syllabus.
1:01:07 > 1:01:10His MP is to hold a debate calling for all Olympic
1:01:10 > 1:01:11sports to be included.
1:01:11 > 1:01:12People studying to teach modern languages or
1:01:12 > 1:01:12sciences in Derby will get their student loans repaid.
1:01:15 > 1:01:17People studying to teach modern languages or
1:01:17 > 1:01:19sciences in Derby will get their student loans repaid.
1:01:19 > 1:01:21The Education Secretary said it was to boost
1:01:21 > 1:01:23recruitment to teachers.
1:01:23 > 1:01:26Derby is one of ten opportunity zones across
1:01:26 > 1:01:31the country where money is to be spent improving social mobility.
1:01:31 > 1:01:34Plans to transform the site of one of the region's last deep pit coal
1:01:34 > 1:01:36mines have been unveiled.
1:01:36 > 1:01:39The colliery in north Nottinghamshire
1:01:39 > 1:01:41closed last year.
1:01:41 > 1:01:44Developers want to build 800 houses as well as school,
1:01:44 > 1:01:45business premises and a country park.
1:01:45 > 1:01:47Rough justice for Nottingham North MP Alex Norris in the
1:01:47 > 1:01:49parliamentary dog of the year competition.
1:01:49 > 1:01:51His two border colleagues won the popular vote, but
1:01:51 > 1:01:54were pipped to the post by Rocky, belonging to Labour colleague Tracy
1:01:54 > 1:02:04Brogan.
1:02:04 > 1:02:06That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands,
1:02:06 > 1:02:08thanks to Liz Kendall and Maggie Throup for
1:02:08 > 1:02:09being this week's guests.
1:02:09 > 1:02:15Time now to hand you back to Sarah Smith.
1:02:15 > 1:02:16Ellie Reeves and Bob Blackman.
1:02:16 > 1:02:26With that, it's back to Sarah.
1:02:26 > 1:02:28Now, the much anticipated EU Withdrawal Bill,
1:02:28 > 1:02:32which will transfer EU law into UK law in preparation for Brexit,
1:02:32 > 1:02:36is expected to be debated by MPs later next month.
1:02:36 > 1:02:39Critics have called it a "power grab" as it introduces so-called
1:02:39 > 1:02:42Henry VIII powers for Whitehall to amend some laws without
1:02:42 > 1:02:46consulting parliament, and it faces fierce resistance
1:02:46 > 1:02:49from opposition parties as well as many on the government's
1:02:49 > 1:02:54own backbenches, with 300 amendments and 54 new clauses tabled on it.
1:02:54 > 1:02:57We're joined now by the Conservative MP Anna Soubry who has been a strong
1:02:57 > 1:03:02critic of the legislation.
1:03:02 > 1:03:06Thank you very much for joining us. Before we talk about the withdrawal
1:03:06 > 1:03:11bill, I would like to bring up with you that the Prime Minister has just
1:03:11 > 1:03:15sent a letter to the Commons Speaker John Bercow asking for an
1:03:15 > 1:03:20independent body to be established to investigate claims of sexual
1:03:20 > 1:03:24harassment in Parliament. What are your thoughts on that?A very good
1:03:24 > 1:03:29idea, sounds like a great deal of common sense. I had already this
1:03:29 > 1:03:32morning sent a request to the speaker asking for an urgent
1:03:32 > 1:03:36statement from the Leader of the House as to what could now be done
1:03:36 > 1:03:42to make sure that any complaints actually against anybody working in
1:03:42 > 1:03:44Parliament, to extend the protections that workers throughout
1:03:44 > 1:03:49the rest of businesses and in other workplaces have, they should now be
1:03:49 > 1:03:53extended into Parliament and asking for an urgent statement from the
1:03:53 > 1:03:58leader. Clearly the PM is well onto this and it is a good idea. We have
1:03:58 > 1:04:02to make sure everybody who works in Parliament enjoys exactly the same
1:04:02 > 1:04:07protections as other workers, so I welcome this.This should maybe have
1:04:07 > 1:04:11happened a long time ago. We hear stories of harassment that has been
1:04:11 > 1:04:15going on for decades, but until now it has been difficult to work out
1:04:15 > 1:04:20who you could complain to about it. It is my understanding that my Chief
1:04:20 > 1:04:25Whip and the previous deputy Chief Whip, and Milton, shared that view
1:04:25 > 1:04:30and have shared that view for some time but found it difficult to get
1:04:30 > 1:04:34all the agreement necessary. Anyway, we are where we are and we are
1:04:34 > 1:04:46making that progress, but
1:04:46 > 1:04:49my Chief Whip and the previous deputy Chief Whip wanted this done
1:04:49 > 1:04:51some time ago.That is an interesting point. Let's move on to
1:04:51 > 1:04:53the much anticipated EU withdrawal bill which will finally be debated.
1:04:53 > 1:04:56You have put your name to an amendment which is calling for a
1:04:56 > 1:04:58vote on the final agreement in essence, do you really believe that
1:04:58 > 1:05:02that will be a meaningful both offered to the Commons?Yes, if you
1:05:02 > 1:05:07look at the terms of the amendment, it would deliver exactly that. It
1:05:07 > 1:05:12would give members of Parliament the opportunity to debated and voted on
1:05:12 > 1:05:16it. It would be an effective piece of legislation and would go through
1:05:16 > 1:05:22both houses and should be done. One of the problems with this process is
1:05:22 > 1:05:26that Parliament has been excluded from the sort of debate and
1:05:26 > 1:05:31decisions that would have enabled the government to move forward in
1:05:31 > 1:05:41progress and form a consensus so we get the very best Brexit deal.We
1:05:41 > 1:05:44have been excluded, that has been wrong in my view, but by the end we
1:05:44 > 1:05:46should not be excluded. The government have made it clear that
1:05:46 > 1:05:49whilst there may well be a boat if you win on this amendment, it will
1:05:49 > 1:05:54be a take it or leave it vote. This is a deal you should accept, or
1:05:54 > 1:06:01there will be no deal.If you look at the amendment we put forward
1:06:01 > 1:06:04there will be other alternatives. This is all hypothetical because we
1:06:04 > 1:06:08want a good deal and it is difficult to see that the government would not
1:06:08 > 1:06:13bring a good deal to the House in any event. But this is hypothetical,
1:06:13 > 1:06:19it would mean Parliament would say to government, go back and seek an
1:06:19 > 1:06:24extension as we know it is there in Article 50. It is perfectly possible
1:06:24 > 1:06:29with the agreement of the other members of the EU to seek an
1:06:29 > 1:06:33extension so we continue the negotiations and we get a deal that
1:06:33 > 1:06:37is good for our country. It keeps all options open and that is the
1:06:37 > 1:06:42most important thing.How many Conservative MPs really would take
1:06:42 > 1:06:47that option in those circumstances? It is only if you get enough votes
1:06:47 > 1:06:50that you would be able to ask the government to go back and
1:06:50 > 1:07:00re-negotiate.
1:07:03 > 1:07:06Have you for that?For give me, but you are jumping way down the line. I
1:07:06 > 1:07:09am talking about an amendment that keeps the options open. I am not
1:07:09 > 1:07:12speculating as to what would happen, I am not going there, it is far too
1:07:12 > 1:07:16speculative. Let's get this bill in good shape. The principle of this
1:07:16 > 1:07:21bill is right and we need to put into British domestic law existing
1:07:21 > 1:07:26EU laws and regulations into our substantive law. We all agree that
1:07:26 > 1:07:31must happen. It is the means by which we do it that causes problems
1:07:31 > 1:07:38and we have this argument and debate about what we call the endgame.I am
1:07:38 > 1:07:41sure we will talk about this many more times before we get to that
1:07:41 > 1:07:47vote. I will turn to our panel of political experts. Listening to the
1:07:47 > 1:07:53tone of what the remainders are trying to achieve with the EU
1:07:53 > 1:07:58withdrawal bill, will be achieved? You can hear that tussled there,
1:07:58 > 1:08:02they want the maximum space and room for Parliament to have a say. But
1:08:02 > 1:08:09they have to be careful. The reason is that clock is ticking and if you
1:08:09 > 1:08:15have a situation which may seem to be more interested in finding
1:08:15 > 1:08:19different things to object to and saying no to, it is not getting a
1:08:19 > 1:08:23good deal and it does not look good for the remainders in this argument
1:08:23 > 1:08:28and they will have to come through with their proposals. I do not mind
1:08:28 > 1:08:31Parliament saying it should have a big say, but what do you do if
1:08:31 > 1:08:37Parliament says this is not good enough? The government must simply
1:08:37 > 1:08:43say, I am sorry we have run out of time. The 27 will say they cannot be
1:08:43 > 1:08:47bothered to have another round either. They have to be strong, but
1:08:47 > 1:08:51realistic about what their role in this is.Do you think the people
1:08:51 > 1:08:56putting this amendment who say they want a binding vote in parliament
1:08:56 > 1:09:00are doing it because they think Parliament should have a say or
1:09:00 > 1:09:04because they want to obstruct it? They do not think people should have
1:09:04 > 1:09:09a say in the first place, they think people got it wrong, so they need
1:09:09 > 1:09:16more clever people than the voters to have final say.Or they believed
1:09:16 > 1:09:20taking back control means Parliament should have the final say.
1:09:20 > 1:09:23Parliament said they would like to give that decision back to the
1:09:23 > 1:09:29people. This is the issue. It seems to me that people like Anna Soubry
1:09:29 > 1:09:33are trying to delay of the transition period a bit longer.
1:09:33 > 1:09:38These negotiations will take as long as they have got. The EU will take
1:09:38 > 1:09:46it to the wire and if we do not get a decent deal, and one of the
1:09:46 > 1:09:49reasons is the level of incompetence on this government's part I have to
1:09:49 > 1:09:54say and the other one will be the people who want to remain
1:09:54 > 1:10:00undermining them. They undermined the government at every single stage
1:10:00 > 1:10:03and they undermine Britain's interests.It is the timing of all
1:10:03 > 1:10:07of this that is crucial and whether the government can get a deal in
1:10:07 > 1:10:13time.There will be a meaningful vote, whether it is an shined in
1:10:13 > 1:10:18legislation or not, there cannot be an historic development as big as
1:10:18 > 1:10:23this without Parliament having a meaningful vote. I meaningful,
1:10:23 > 1:10:28having the power to either stop it or endorse it. You cannot have a
1:10:28 > 1:10:30government doing something like this with no vote in the House of
1:10:30 > 1:10:38commons. When you say it will go to the last minute I completely agree,
1:10:38 > 1:10:42but last-minute in reality means next summer. It has got to get
1:10:42 > 1:10:46through the European Parliament and the Westminster Parliament and quite
1:10:46 > 1:10:53a few others as well.The trouble with invoking Parliament is if it is
1:10:53 > 1:10:58driven solely by remain, I would love to say what people in the
1:10:58 > 1:11:05league side think. I disagree with Julia, I do not think you could say
1:11:05 > 1:11:09people had their say and the terms with which we leave are left open
1:11:09 > 1:11:12and only the government should have a say in it, Parliament clearly
1:11:12 > 1:11:21should have a say in it.Do we want a good deal or not?It does not mean
1:11:21 > 1:11:27anything if you do not do it by next summer I suggest.Does that leave
1:11:27 > 1:11:31Parliament any room for changing the deal or is it simply take it or
1:11:31 > 1:11:36leave it?It will have to have that rule because it cannot simply be
1:11:36 > 1:11:39another of these binary votes were you accept the deal or no Deal.
1:11:39 > 1:11:45There has to be some space.How can a few MPs in the House of Commons
1:11:45 > 1:11:51change a deal that has been agreed by the member states?Because of the
1:11:51 > 1:11:56sequence, a huge if by the way, if they vote down the deal that the
1:11:56 > 1:11:59government has negotiated, the government will have to re-negotiate
1:11:59 > 1:12:03or there will have to be an election. This will be a moment of
1:12:03 > 1:12:06huge crisis, our government not getting through its much topped
1:12:06 > 1:12:16about...It is a mini Catalonia.I think it would be as big as
1:12:16 > 1:12:18Catalonia, but with the implication that there would have to be a
1:12:18 > 1:12:22practical change in the deal because if Parliament has not supported
1:12:22 > 1:12:28it...It is a remain fantasy that this deal can be put off and off
1:12:28 > 1:12:32until they get something that is as close to remaining as they can
1:12:32 > 1:12:37possibly get. I am very much for trying to get the best and avoiding
1:12:37 > 1:12:44the worst, but there is an unreality to that position if you keep trying
1:12:44 > 1:12:50to do it again and again, at some point people will want clarity.I
1:12:50 > 1:12:55labour putting forward a realistic proposition?I thought Hilary Benn
1:12:55 > 1:13:00was very realistic this morning, I wish he was more in the driving seat
1:13:00 > 1:13:05of Labour policy. He made clear where he disagreed and he made clear
1:13:05 > 1:13:08where he thought the negotiations had gone off track or were bogged
1:13:08 > 1:13:16down. I worry a bit about the Labour position being incoherent, but that
1:13:16 > 1:13:20is kept that way by the present leadership because as far as they
1:13:20 > 1:13:24are concerned the government is suffering enough, why should they
1:13:24 > 1:13:29have a position? Hilary Benn said we needed to have clarity about the
1:13:29 > 1:13:33timetable. It is like reading an insurance contract and finding the
1:13:33 > 1:13:36bit where you might get away with it. That is not a policy.
1:13:36 > 1:13:38That is not a policy.
1:13:38 > 1:13:40That's all for today.
1:13:40 > 1:13:42Join me again next Sunday at 11 here on BBC One.
1:13:42 > 1:13:47Until then, bye bye.