:01:41. > :01:47.A in in East, while the Prime Minister lost his patience with one
:01:47. > :01:57.of our MPs, the government will look to more Turbo and like these
:01:57. > :01:57.
:01:57. > :25:54.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1437 seconds
:25:54. > :26:02.Why would you point a finger in men accused a to way. Asking how to
:26:02. > :26:12.inflate our homes better. We want a green deal, we want to spend less
:26:12. > :26:12.
:26:12. > :26:18.rather than more on energy bills. It is a big issue, an important one.
:26:18. > :26:26.You signed off on this in a committee, then in public your
:26:26. > :26:36.party moves away from it. We did not sign off, you are making
:26:36. > :26:36.
:26:36. > :26:39.comments on the internal mechanisms. We decided at the National Security
:26:39. > :26:44.Committee that there was a dilemma, there is an issue that people are
:26:44. > :26:48.making telephone calls to each other using new means of doing so
:26:48. > :26:54.which did not exist in the past. They are not captured by current
:26:54. > :26:59.statutory powers which the police can use. What none of us have
:27:00. > :27:03.decided on because we have not seen it, it has not been discussed
:27:03. > :27:09.collectively is how subject to proper parliamentary scrutiny it is.
:27:09. > :27:13.How do you make sure, absolutely, a point I made at the time in public
:27:13. > :27:18.and in private that we don't infringe on basic civil liberties.
:27:18. > :27:22.It is getting the balance right, it is painstaking and has not been
:27:22. > :27:27.completed yet. Why are you putting up so few candidates in local
:27:27. > :27:32.elections. We are putting up fewer, we lost a lot of councillors last
:27:32. > :27:36.year, we took a real thumping last year which is normal, parties do
:27:37. > :27:41.this with the ebb and flow of their fortunes. We are focusing our
:27:41. > :27:46.candidates on the areas where we are strong and campaign well. Where
:27:46. > :27:50.we deliver for local communities. Michael Brown, your party's
:27:50. > :27:56.biggest-ever donor, is being extradited from the Caribbean back
:27:56. > :28:00.to this country. He gave your party to 0.4 billion -- million pounds.
:28:00. > :28:05.You have no legal obligation to give this back but don't you have a
:28:05. > :28:10.moral obligation? I am very pleased he is coming back to serve his
:28:10. > :28:15.sentence, a convicted fraudster. This happened before I was even an
:28:15. > :28:19.MP, let alone leader of the Liberal Democrats, and what I have been
:28:19. > :28:23.told is that the electoral commission looked at this
:28:23. > :28:27.exhaustively as far as the receipt of that money by the Liberal
:28:27. > :28:31.Democrats from one of his companies. They concluded that the money was
:28:31. > :28:35.received in good faith and all of the cheques which should have been
:28:35. > :28:38.made were made by the Liberal- Democrat at the time. If we had
:28:39. > :28:44.been shown wanting on those counts then of course we should pay the
:28:44. > :28:54.money back. I accept that you did not know, but you were in receipt
:28:54. > :28:59.of stolen goods. Don't you have a moral necessity to hand that back.
:28:59. > :29:03.I am just talking about the principle. The principle is, if you
:29:03. > :29:07.were to receive money from someone and you did so on false pretences,
:29:07. > :29:11.knowingly, and you did not conduct the right checks then you should
:29:11. > :29:16.pay it back. The Electoral Commission shows that in those
:29:16. > :29:20.cases which take place, as it did before I entered Parliament, that
:29:20. > :29:25.was not the case had been Liberal- Democrats and they were exonerated.
:29:25. > :29:30.There are stories in the rounds at Westminster that he will stand down
:29:30. > :29:36.at the next election. Can I give you the opportunity to scotch those
:29:36. > :29:44.rumours today, to say you will fight the 2015 Liberal-Democrat
:29:44. > :29:50.leader. You bet. If Parliament results in another hung parliament,
:29:50. > :29:56.are you up for being a different Deputy Prime Minister in another
:29:56. > :30:00.coalition? I will say to what I said months ago, I don't think how
:30:00. > :30:05.Coalition's are formed should be the plaything of any politicians.
:30:05. > :30:08.It should be based on the instruction of the British people.
:30:08. > :30:13.At the last election there was only one possible combinations so what
:30:13. > :30:18.we did was quite it if we followed, the mandate. That is what we should
:30:18. > :30:24.do in the future. Deputy Prime Minister, thank you for being with
:30:24. > :30:29.us on this marathon day. It is approaching 2:30pm. Coming up in 20
:30:29. > :30:39.minutes, I will be looking at the week ahead with our political panel.
:30:39. > :30:41.
:30:41. > :30:45.Until then, the Sunday politics across the UK.
:30:45. > :30:49.Hello and welcome to Sunday politics in the east. Coming up,
:30:49. > :30:53.what is the future for onshore wind? The government pulls back on
:30:53. > :31:02.a new wind farm development as pressure grows inside and outside
:31:02. > :31:06.parliament. First, let's introduce our guest, the Conservative MP
:31:06. > :31:12.joins us, and the Labour MP for Luton South. Kicking off with the
:31:12. > :31:19.proposals for the House of Lords, a second elected chamber. M P Patel,
:31:19. > :31:24.I assume you are not keen on these proposals? His early days, they
:31:24. > :31:29.will give their own findings, I have concerns. I don't think it
:31:29. > :31:34.will be scrapped the House of Lords and start again. There is a serious
:31:34. > :31:37.constitutional role for it to play. I think we have to look at
:31:37. > :31:40.proposals and look at the feasibility of some of the changes
:31:40. > :31:48.which will be proposed. I am not for wholesale root-and-branch
:31:48. > :31:53.reform. Under Labour they talked a lot about reform, his is the way
:31:53. > :31:57.forward? We had that at the start of our administration. I hope this
:31:58. > :32:02.will be successful. It is a big fault line in the coalition.
:32:02. > :32:07.Although I want to see them an elected, I want to see how the
:32:07. > :32:10.government will play this out. Moving on to another big talking
:32:10. > :32:14.point this week, we are still talking about the Budget because it
:32:14. > :32:20.is still causing controversy. This week with the Finance Bill having a
:32:20. > :32:26.rocky ride through Parliament. The six MPs rebelled against measures
:32:26. > :32:36.for taxes on pasty is, caravans and historic buildings like churches.
:32:36. > :32:38.
:32:38. > :32:42.The MP for Clacton received a public put down from David Cameron.
:32:42. > :32:46.The pensioners, motorists and pasty makers of will condemn the budget
:32:46. > :32:51.and now the church is joining in. Angry at plans to charge VAT on
:32:51. > :32:54.repairs to historic buildings. point is that these places are for
:32:54. > :33:00.the community. They are not profit organisations making money for
:33:00. > :33:06.other people. They are here for the community. The Universities
:33:06. > :33:10.Minister opened a new college in Harlow, but was told by the head of
:33:10. > :33:17.Anglia Ruskin how angry universities are to cap charity
:33:17. > :33:22.giving. Others furious that VAT will be charged on the sale of
:33:22. > :33:31.static caravans. A millionaire can own a holiday home, bricks-and-
:33:31. > :33:39.mortar, anywhere in the country and he does not pay 20 per cent VAT.
:33:39. > :33:44.Some of these issues have been forced by civil servants, one of
:33:44. > :33:48.already unhappily with the taxes was very publicly slapped down.
:33:48. > :33:55.There are a few occasions when I think the Honourable Gentleman need
:33:55. > :33:58.a bit of a sense of humour. He told me to get a sense of humour but the
:33:58. > :34:03.people I represent in Clacton are not laughing about the budget or
:34:03. > :34:10.the massive increase in VAT of caravans. They are not laughing
:34:10. > :34:14.about the past the tax or the lack of economic growth. I can do humour
:34:14. > :34:20.when I need to, but I don't think people voted for me because they
:34:20. > :34:25.wanted me to be a comedian. To this Budget has left many
:34:25. > :34:30.feeling uneasy and they must now hope for divine intervention to end
:34:30. > :34:36.this stream of bad publicity. has been a public relations
:34:36. > :34:41.disaster has it not? David Cameron says we have got a year to talk
:34:41. > :34:45.about it. A year to consult. Why has it not been consulted on before
:34:45. > :34:49.it reached the Budget? Are I come to this from a different
:34:49. > :34:54.perspective. Most but is that I can remember, they have always been
:34:54. > :34:57.taught about long after it has been given. There are lots of
:34:57. > :35:03.technicalities around budgets. Gavin will recall back in the
:35:03. > :35:09.Labour days we had a 10 p tax issue which went on and on and on. An
:35:09. > :35:19.increase in the state pension to. We talk about being Wendy but it is
:35:19. > :35:20.
:35:20. > :35:25.announced, you talk about them for weeks afterwards. There is a couple
:35:25. > :35:28.of points here, one is about fairness and won his invocation of
:35:28. > :35:33.the tax system. We have discovered that they have been far too many
:35:33. > :35:38.anomalies in the tax system, hence the reason, where the past days of
:35:38. > :35:42.caravans, and why the government has looked at the tax rates around
:35:42. > :35:48.these issues and said they would simplify them. The government is
:35:48. > :35:52.being sensible, Gavin? They have to be saving somewhere. We did oppose
:35:52. > :35:56.the measures in the Budget, I think they are deeply unfair. Many of the
:35:56. > :36:00.people in the film that talked about the ways it will affect their
:36:00. > :36:06.business. The key issue we should be talking about his growth.
:36:06. > :36:12.Instead we have spent four week's talking about them. In our budgets
:36:12. > :36:17.over the 13 years, there was the 10 p tax for example, but my fear is
:36:17. > :36:21.that this whole budget will be looked at at like that in the
:36:21. > :36:29.future. I thought the response from the Prime Minister was a bit of a
:36:29. > :36:34.shame there, actually, hopefully, there should be a fulsome response
:36:34. > :36:38.to the question asked. I think it also says something about the
:36:39. > :36:43.relationship between the decision makers and the backbench MPs.
:36:43. > :36:53.me put that to Gavin shook her. The residue between leader and party,
:36:53. > :36:54.
:36:54. > :36:59.no surprises? Any party has this disconnects. I don't believe we
:36:59. > :37:02.have it now, I think we are very united, but it is true there is a
:37:02. > :37:06.problem there. David Cameron made to work really hard at keeping
:37:06. > :37:10.those guys on board. They are coming into a difficult period
:37:10. > :37:15.right now. We are moving on now to the growing opposition to onshore
:37:15. > :37:20.wind farms. The government has pledged to call a halt to new
:37:20. > :37:25.projects and that is before it announces a fresh cup. Amid growing
:37:25. > :37:31.concern among them MPs, the government claimed the targets will
:37:31. > :37:36.be met. The industry disagrees. Across the East Northamptonshire
:37:36. > :37:41.tops the table. In all there is a total of 216 large wind turbine
:37:41. > :37:49.soon to be built across the region with another 87 in the pipeline.
:37:49. > :37:52.The government seems to agree that that is where it should end. This
:37:52. > :37:59.village in of Northampton share has a small community with just 70
:37:59. > :38:04.people, not in a big battle over seven turbines. There are plenty of
:38:04. > :38:10.other places besides this. They are all around us as it is. They have
:38:10. > :38:15.got to leave us somewhere, surely? We need an oasis amongst it all,
:38:15. > :38:20.they should leave us alone. turbines would be seven times the
:38:20. > :38:26.height of the tower of the 7th century church, and it is the
:38:26. > :38:30.potential threat which feels local fury. There is a feeling of
:38:30. > :38:34.helplessness which then becomes frustration, and it turns to anger.
:38:34. > :38:38.You find yourself getting highly motivated to try and defend what
:38:38. > :38:42.you have got. This is where the decision will be made, not by the
:38:42. > :38:46.planning committee of the district council but by a single planning
:38:46. > :38:50.inspector. They say the council fell to determine the application
:38:50. > :38:55.and the time about, so it is down to a planning inquiry to make the
:38:55. > :38:59.ruling. There are already very stringent guidelines about way you
:38:59. > :39:05.can cite wind farms, it has to be done through a local democratic
:39:05. > :39:09.process. You have to carry out a local assessment, which needs to be
:39:09. > :39:16.very stringent. The king at the effect in the area, only then can
:39:16. > :39:19.you get the project through. energy suppliers say they have a
:39:20. > :39:23.history of fairness and say it is appropriate. They said one is not
:39:23. > :39:27.going to blink and miss the structures, but the National
:39:27. > :39:32.process is clear. Even if the impact are probably to be viewed as
:39:32. > :39:37.adverse, that in itself is not a reason for refusal. Could that
:39:37. > :39:40.overall policy be about to shift with many MPs arguing that these
:39:40. > :39:47.need to be cut substantially and there are already enough project up
:39:47. > :39:52.and running or in the pipeline. have a target of 13 gigawatt of
:39:52. > :39:56.onshore wind for 2020. We have got six through the planning gate
:39:56. > :40:01.already and seven going through now. We will hit out 2020 target later
:40:01. > :40:05.this year, probably. That proves to me the number is way too high.
:40:05. > :40:08.not clear we have hit the targets, a number of proposals are at
:40:08. > :40:11.planning stage and now they are saying that because they are
:40:11. > :40:16.uncertain about the commitment to wind they are pulling back to see
:40:16. > :40:23.what happens. It is not clear the targets have been met, but we have
:40:23. > :40:28.to look at the whole mix of energy that we need. We expect to need
:40:28. > :40:31.more and more power, if we don't get it from offshore wind that
:40:31. > :40:36.means we are probably going to be more and more reliant on imports of
:40:36. > :40:42.fossil fuels from other countries. Bad for the environment but also
:40:42. > :40:47.more expensive. At Bradwell on see there is more
:40:47. > :40:51.plans under way, and the firm behind it says they are working
:40:51. > :40:55.closely with local people and councils. Campaigners say they are
:40:55. > :40:59.looking to halt the project by seeking a judicial review claiming
:40:59. > :41:03.the structures could put protected areas at risk. They believe that
:41:03. > :41:09.onshore wind has had its day. political pressure for onshore wind
:41:09. > :41:14.has now gone. There will probably be a number of small light
:41:14. > :41:18.industrial ones as we have seen on some local farms but the big
:41:18. > :41:24.developments, such as this one, will probably no longer happen.
:41:24. > :41:29.is heartbreaking really, we did design the property to take into
:41:29. > :41:33.consideration all of the views, and everything else which goes with it
:41:34. > :41:38.in the area. Then we find that they will be taken away. We hope it has
:41:38. > :41:43.a not come too late for us. We still believe we will win the
:41:43. > :41:47.judicial review and on that basis they will not be built here. 130
:41:47. > :41:53.miles away they to believe they will prevail, confident that this
:41:53. > :41:58.is a David and Goliath battle that they can win. I am joined by Adrian
:41:58. > :42:03.Ramsey, the former Norwich councillor, now deputy leader of
:42:03. > :42:07.the Green Party. Do you have any sympathy at all with the people in
:42:07. > :42:09.that report? Of course I have sympathy and there you should be
:42:09. > :42:13.taken into account in the discussions around planning
:42:13. > :42:17.applications, but a recent poll from the Sunday Times show that
:42:17. > :42:24.more than 50 per cent of people surveyed want to see more wind. We
:42:24. > :42:32.could have more supportive we saw a more consistent community at
:42:32. > :42:36.ownership. I want to see community ownership of wind turbines to come
:42:36. > :42:41.up more frequently, as we are seeing in some parts of this region
:42:41. > :42:44.already, I think there will be more public support. We have been told
:42:44. > :42:49.the industry should brace itself to a large cuts of more than 10 per
:42:49. > :42:53.cent. What do you think that would do to the industry. I am really
:42:53. > :42:56.concerned about the effect it would have on the industry. We could be
:42:56. > :43:00.creating thousands of jobs if they have the confidence that there
:43:00. > :43:06.would be orders placed. Investors say it will create 2000 jobs in
:43:06. > :43:11.Kent soon if there is a possibility for a plant there. We are way
:43:11. > :43:18.behind other countries with other renewable energy is, whether it is
:43:18. > :43:22.wind, wave or solar panel power. We should be tackling climate change
:43:22. > :43:29.and we have to remember that fossil fuels and nuclear power has huge
:43:29. > :43:34.subsidies which does not get attention. You mentioned and energy
:43:34. > :43:39.mix and if we keep with that, we have gas and nuclear energy, do we
:43:39. > :43:43.really need in this country any more onshore wind? Onshore wind
:43:43. > :43:50.must be part of the solution and we need to make sure that people's
:43:50. > :43:52.views are taken into account on this. We need to look at the
:43:52. > :43:56.effectiveness of a particular site but we do need more onshore wind.
:43:56. > :44:00.There would be more supportive it was community based projects, and
:44:00. > :44:06.we need to reduce the amount of energy that we rely on. If we
:44:06. > :44:11.insulate people's homes and tried to look at the local issues we
:44:11. > :44:15.could reduce our energy demand that way. The let me bring in the other
:44:15. > :44:22.two guests. Labour subsidies were so high that they effectively
:44:22. > :44:29.skewed the market, didn't they? Some may say it led to the market
:44:29. > :44:35.being overly aggressive. I think it kicks started a market here. If
:44:35. > :44:38.what is being said is right in the that, it shows that we were quite
:44:38. > :44:42.foresight full in moving the situation forward. The real problem
:44:42. > :44:46.here is that the government is running up against its own rhetoric.
:44:46. > :44:50.It promised localism for local communities and yet the realities
:44:50. > :44:55.are that they are being put in places where people don't want them.
:44:55. > :44:59.It is interesting, I agree with Gavin on the point about kick-
:44:59. > :45:06.starting the renewables agenda in this country. We need that energy.
:45:06. > :45:12.I am in favour of having local people have the saved. What we saw
:45:12. > :45:16.in that package, in Essex, for example, local residents fearing
:45:16. > :45:19.that their views were completely ignored and overridden by the
:45:19. > :45:23.Planning Inspectorate. That is wrong and I would like to think
:45:23. > :45:29.that the Government's powers in regards to localism, going forward,
:45:30. > :45:34.would make sure that residents have the saved. You are here being the
:45:34. > :45:38.vote bluecoat green government, how has their record been so far?
:45:38. > :45:44.Disastrous, they have slashed the support for solar-powered, they are
:45:44. > :45:49.failing to take the action that we need to supply energy for the
:45:49. > :45:53.future to localise our economy. We are far too reliant on imported oil
:45:53. > :46:00.and gas. Part of the issue is about investing in all types of renewable
:46:00. > :46:06.energy, whether it is wind, solar all way. What about in energy mix,
:46:06. > :46:13.Gavin? We are the ones who first foresaw we were coming up to an
:46:13. > :46:17.energy crunch around 2020 or 2025. We need all kinds of energy. It is
:46:17. > :46:25.all very well for the Greens to say we must press on regardless but
:46:25. > :46:29.local people must be heard. It would be against my wishes to
:46:29. > :46:34.defend this government but to take away the structures to plan
:46:34. > :46:39.effectively, across city areas, it becomes much harder. The government
:46:39. > :46:45.has got itself into a real mess, is it about localism or the Green
:46:45. > :46:49.economy? The the 2020 tariff, are we going to make it? Everything at
:46:49. > :46:54.the moment looks pretty good for getting the right energy mix by
:46:54. > :47:00.2020. Absolutely. We are there to meet targets. The government has
:47:00. > :47:03.been very clear. Energy mixes key but we should not forget that it is
:47:03. > :47:07.hard pressed tax payers out there who are paying for higher bills and
:47:07. > :47:12.having to subsidise renewables. It is important that this government
:47:12. > :47:21.looks at this again. Briefly, a trim, what is your response to the
:47:21. > :47:25.government running back on this proposal? -- Adrian. We need to
:47:25. > :47:31.support renewables in general, with offshore wind and onshore. With
:47:31. > :47:35.onshore wind we need to make sure the proposals are appropriate. If
:47:35. > :47:39.we can promote more community renewable projects there will be
:47:39. > :47:45.more support at a local level. I'm not saying that every site is
:47:45. > :47:50.appropriate but there would be more support if it was community based.
:47:50. > :48:00.Thank you. You two stay here, it is time for the weekly political
:48:00. > :48:01.
:48:01. > :48:05.round-up. Watch out for the Dragon, here it comes in 60 seconds.
:48:05. > :48:09.Peter Bone up to his old tricks this week asking the education
:48:09. > :48:16.department to relocate to Wellingborough. Daily you would get
:48:16. > :48:19.the advice of Mrs Bone, they cannot be a better opportunity, surely?
:48:19. > :48:24.All I can say is that Northamptonshire has many
:48:24. > :48:27.attractions, chief amongst them is Mrs Bone. How to achieve an
:48:27. > :48:32.attractive High Street was the mission of a Dragon who believes
:48:32. > :48:38.the government could do more. must say there is a lot of lip
:48:38. > :48:43.service and very little substance. A view shared by one the Labour MP
:48:43. > :48:46.who took the Prime Minister to task about the granite tax. Does the
:48:46. > :48:51.Prime Minister to think that this granny tax is teaching pensioners
:48:51. > :48:57.with a respect? It was the Right Honourable Member for chums that he
:48:57. > :49:01.was asked to show a little respect in a rebuke from the Speaker.
:49:01. > :49:08.quiet Mr Burns, it would be better for your health. You are the
:49:08. > :49:15.Minister for Health. Well, there we go. Let me pick up on that point
:49:15. > :49:22.about our high streets. We seek hour Dragon are not happy about it,
:49:22. > :49:29.very little substance. I disagree, I met Mary he because we put in a
:49:29. > :49:33.bit to be part of the pilot. I have a very motivated community and they
:49:33. > :49:38.have been very inspired by this. I have been delighted to see them
:49:38. > :49:44.come together and worked together to look at the benefit of our town
:49:44. > :49:49.centres. Under Labour it was spend, spend, spend. As a result are we
:49:49. > :49:54.going to see the High Street get smaller? I think the real problem
:49:54. > :49:58.is not that the review would work, it is the economy. And this we see
:49:58. > :50:01.some real action on growth this year in the economy, it does not
:50:01. > :50:08.matter how many reviews you do you will be in a really difficult
:50:08. > :50:14.position. The High Street is here to stay? Yes, absolutely. Luton has
:50:14. > :50:19.a pride in one which you will have to visit. That is all for now. You
:50:19. > :50:24.can keep in touch via our website where you will find links to