0:01:25 > 0:01:29In the final week of the election campaign we reveal that target
0:01:29 > 0:01:39councils. The Essex County Council reveals how badly the expenses
0:01:39 > 0:01:39
0:01:39 > 0:29:32Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1673 seconds
0:29:32 > 0:29:38system failed under Lord Welcome to Sunday Politics in the
0:29:38 > 0:29:44east. Coming up, how will the political map changed in the
0:29:44 > 0:29:54election? Can Labour comeback in this region and will be a Liberal
0:29:54 > 0:29:57
0:29:57 > 0:30:03Democrat push on? Now we will meet our guests. MPs from the Liberal
0:30:03 > 0:30:12Democrats, Labour, and Conservatives. Let us start with
0:30:12 > 0:30:21news that we are back in recession. The economy shrank by 0.2%.
0:30:21 > 0:30:28Elizabeth, at is too far and too fast ringing in your ears? Not at
0:30:28 > 0:30:32all. We are in debt -- we're in a different situation. The eurozone
0:30:32 > 0:30:42has put in a lot of measures that will help growth but it takes time.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45For example, the A11 is being expanded. That will bring in jobs.
0:30:45 > 0:30:50In Norfolk we are bucking the trend in manufacturing, getting more
0:30:50 > 0:30:54manufacturing jobs, when I speak to more local firms they are taking on
0:30:54 > 0:31:00orders. As a country, we have a productivity problem, at
0:31:00 > 0:31:07competitive problem, it has been there a long time. These reforms
0:31:07 > 0:31:13take time to work. We must not lose the interest rates and the credit
0:31:13 > 0:31:16rating. That is right. That is why we need to grow the economy. We
0:31:16 > 0:31:21have been saying that austerity is self-defeating if you cut too fast.
0:31:21 > 0:31:27If you do that it damages the economy. What we have gone after
0:31:27 > 0:31:32all his pain is even more debt, we are needing to borrow �158 million
0:31:32 > 0:31:34and George Osborne wanted to. Frankly, it is a disaster. This is
0:31:34 > 0:31:40a central plank pure economic policy, you cannot spend your way
0:31:40 > 0:31:43out of the deficit. What is to be done? First met in the news is very
0:31:43 > 0:31:48disappointing. We hope to see better economic growth. In my
0:31:48 > 0:31:52constituency, it was rated as the most successful city in the country.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55Actually, unemployment in Cambridge is coming down and it is lower than
0:31:55 > 0:31:59it was when Labour were in power. The problem is one of balance. If
0:31:59 > 0:32:04you keep borrowing and to the Ed Balls plan of continuing to rack up
0:32:04 > 0:32:10more debt, that is a problem. If you cut too much, that is also a
0:32:10 > 0:32:14problem. We need to find the right balance in between. I'll come back
0:32:14 > 0:32:19shortly. Now to the news that Margaret Moran will not be put on
0:32:19 > 0:32:24trial for allegedly fiddling her expenses. She has been found not
0:32:24 > 0:32:28fit to stand. The charges against her include 21 counts of fraud and
0:32:28 > 0:32:34forgery totalling �80,000. The hearing has been told the 56-year-
0:32:34 > 0:32:41old suffers from a depressive illness, extreme anxiety and
0:32:41 > 0:32:45agitation. Staying with expenses, the former leader of Essex County
0:32:45 > 0:32:50Council, Lord Hanningfield, went back to take his place in the House
0:32:50 > 0:32:54of Lords. His return coincided with a report criticising Essex County
0:32:54 > 0:32:58Council's oversight of its expenses. Major flaws have been highlighted
0:32:58 > 0:33:02about the lack of control in 2009 when Lord Hanningfield was the
0:33:02 > 0:33:06leader. Auditors have expressed serious concerns about the use of
0:33:06 > 0:33:10corporate credit cards. They said poor record keeping made it hard to
0:33:10 > 0:33:18see if chauffeur-driven cars were being misused. They said it and
0:33:18 > 0:33:21hospitality were not always been registered. -- presents.
0:33:21 > 0:33:25For council tax payers in Essex this was all but how their money
0:33:25 > 0:33:29was being spent and the checks that should have been in place. The
0:33:29 > 0:33:33auditors look that the expenses system that operate at the County
0:33:33 > 0:33:37Hall in 2009 and expressed serious concerns. They felt there was no
0:33:37 > 0:33:41clear guidance on expenses and no proper way of scrutinising or
0:33:41 > 0:33:45questioning the claims. This was while Lord Hanningfield was the
0:33:45 > 0:33:52leader of Essex County Council. These are not small sums of money
0:33:52 > 0:33:58in question. In 2008 to 2009, the total a mind of expenses claimed by
0:33:58 > 0:34:02all members came to �140,000. That is the sort of sum you would assume
0:34:02 > 0:34:08it would be carefully accounted for. But the auditors also said
0:34:08 > 0:34:17significant progress has since been made. The current leader was keen
0:34:17 > 0:34:21to point this out. We have a new constitution, a new system. We
0:34:21 > 0:34:24publish every item of members' expenses on our website. Some
0:34:24 > 0:34:29councillors all this report two years ago but it has only just been
0:34:29 > 0:34:33made available to the public now. Some people think that delay itself
0:34:33 > 0:34:38is unacceptable. I think the whole affair with Lord Hanningfield and
0:34:38 > 0:34:45the fact that they have not seen this report brings a question of
0:34:45 > 0:34:47our confidence in to politicians. There has been a crisis of faith in
0:34:47 > 0:34:51our elected representatives and these measures are not doing
0:34:51 > 0:34:56anything to restore that confidence at a time when it is desperately
0:34:56 > 0:35:01needed. Even the opposition parties in Essex acknowledge that things
0:35:01 > 0:35:09have improved under the new leader. In 2009, under Lord Hanningfield,
0:35:09 > 0:35:12it appears there was a markedly -- markedly relaxed approach to
0:35:12 > 0:35:20finances, even though it had already announced that they would
0:35:20 > 0:35:24save hundreds of millions of pounds a year to balance the books. Lord
0:35:24 > 0:35:28Hanningfield is already charged under his parliamentary expenses,
0:35:28 > 0:35:33the council expenses are still being investigated.
0:35:33 > 0:35:43Aqua, about Margaret Moran, do you understand the public anger? Very
0:35:43 > 0:35:47angry. Those of us who sat through the public anger during that period
0:35:47 > 0:35:52know how bad it is. The problem is wider than one of expenses. The
0:35:52 > 0:35:56Government has told councils to curb the spending on high salaries
0:35:56 > 0:35:59to GE executives. We found this week of the 10 councils with the
0:35:59 > 0:36:06highest paid chief executives, nine of them are Conservative, four of
0:36:06 > 0:36:12them in this region, the highest is Essex, paying �271,000 to the chief
0:36:12 > 0:36:22executive. With regard to Margaret Moran, what do you think the
0:36:22 > 0:36:24
0:36:24 > 0:36:29reaction will be? There may be a sense that justice will not be done.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32We still have a sense of frustration and fury. I think it
0:36:32 > 0:36:37was a very sad episode and I hope we will not see anything like that.
0:36:37 > 0:36:41We are much more transparent now. Does this finally draw a line under
0:36:41 > 0:36:44it? I do not think so because I think we have lots of public bodies
0:36:44 > 0:36:50that need to be more transparent about the money their spending.
0:36:50 > 0:36:55That applies to central government, local government, and things like
0:36:55 > 0:36:59the police service, Network Rail. Bodies that serve public money --
0:36:59 > 0:37:02spend public money must be transparent. I think we have made a
0:37:02 > 0:37:06lot of changes in terms of transparency but there is a long
0:37:06 > 0:37:09way to go. It is interesting you mention that because moving on to
0:37:09 > 0:37:12the report about Essex County Council, what about people in
0:37:12 > 0:37:16general losing confidence in politics? I think it is good if
0:37:16 > 0:37:19people question politics and politicians, because we need to be
0:37:19 > 0:37:27accountable to the electorate, we need to be transparent about what
0:37:27 > 0:37:33we do, and we do not want a culture like this. Although it is painful
0:37:33 > 0:37:36in the short term, the expenses scandal has created a demand for
0:37:36 > 0:37:41more transparent culture, which will ultimately result in better
0:37:41 > 0:37:46performance for public bodies. you think that reform of the House
0:37:46 > 0:37:51of lards, meaning people who have committed reform -- committed
0:37:51 > 0:37:55offences are not able to take up their seats, is that better?
0:37:55 > 0:38:01think so. The idea that people got thrown out of a House of Commons
0:38:01 > 0:38:06for transgressing serious rules, but could still going to the House
0:38:06 > 0:38:09of Lords, I believe Jeffrey Archer was allowed to go back. The rules
0:38:09 > 0:38:12need to change and I believe that House of Lords should be wholly
0:38:12 > 0:38:16elected anyway and they believe they would have to fall in with the
0:38:16 > 0:38:21same rules as a House of Commons. People will want to know I this
0:38:21 > 0:38:26happened. There are lots of questions. People will want to know.
0:38:26 > 0:38:31One of the key things is getting every councillor in the country to
0:38:32 > 0:38:36be transparent. Every council except one in the north is
0:38:36 > 0:38:40publishing everything they spend above �5,000. I agree completely
0:38:40 > 0:38:50about the reform of a House of Lords. We need to get rid of party
0:38:50 > 0:38:50
0:38:50 > 0:38:54patronage. We will come back to you shortly. First, the local elections.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57We are into the last few days of the campaign with voting on
0:38:58 > 0:39:01Thursday in this year's local elections. Labour is fighting to
0:39:01 > 0:39:04wrest back control of the target councils. The Liberal Democrats are
0:39:04 > 0:39:12fighting off challenges in there and the Conservatives are still
0:39:12 > 0:39:15hopeful they may have an ace up their sleeve. Elections are taking
0:39:15 > 0:39:20place on 19 of the region's councils next week, and here they
0:39:20 > 0:39:23are. Cambridge, controlled by the Liberal Democrats, the Labour
0:39:23 > 0:39:28authorities of exit and Stevenage, Norwich, Colchester and Milton
0:39:28 > 0:39:31Keynes, they all have no overall control. All these other councils
0:39:31 > 0:39:35are run by the Conservatives. It seems very likely that most of
0:39:35 > 0:39:39these councils will still be run by the Conservatives after Thursday.
0:39:39 > 0:39:43The party has enormous majorities in places like Daventry and
0:39:43 > 0:39:53Huntingdon share. But in some places, there have been battles
0:39:53 > 0:39:53
0:39:53 > 0:39:57going on. Not least, are low. -- Harlow. In most places the
0:39:57 > 0:40:00campaigning has been low-key but not here. With a Conservative
0:40:00 > 0:40:05majority of just one, Labour and Conservative have been sending in
0:40:05 > 0:40:11the big guns. Labour what is to be a referendum on the government's
0:40:11 > 0:40:15record. And hearing people say they want action on jobs, help for
0:40:15 > 0:40:19pensioners, they do not understand why cutting the tax for the
0:40:19 > 0:40:23wealthiest is the priority. Conservative message is cutting
0:40:23 > 0:40:30council tax and running authorities more efficiently. We are embracing
0:40:30 > 0:40:33transparency, procurement, innovation, and enjoy working.
0:40:33 > 0:40:37Labour did well here last year and they want to show that the
0:40:37 > 0:40:42fightback is more than a flash-in- the-pan. Norwich is a key target
0:40:42 > 0:40:50council, they hope to make greater gains in Great Yarmouth and here in
0:40:50 > 0:40:54Cambridge. We have a better street cleaning record in the city centre
0:40:54 > 0:41:00and the further you go away, it declines. Much as we like to
0:41:00 > 0:41:04present a great city for tourists, residents count as well. Often they
0:41:04 > 0:41:08do not provide enough parking spaces. They have an unrealistic
0:41:08 > 0:41:12expectation that people will be able to ditch their cars, and that
0:41:12 > 0:41:17is just not true. We are putting new money into detox problems Bogg
0:41:17 > 0:41:21-- detox programmes for the homeless, helping young people,
0:41:21 > 0:41:28getting young people into employment, and this is a real
0:41:28 > 0:41:32priority for us. Cambridge is the only council in the region
0:41:32 > 0:41:36controlled by the Liberal Democrats. The party knows this could be
0:41:36 > 0:41:40another difficult year. It is talking up the benefits of being in
0:41:40 > 0:41:43the coalition. The whole message is about helping hard-working families
0:41:43 > 0:41:47who need a bit of a break. People on the whole understand that things
0:41:47 > 0:41:51are really difficult. We are clearing up an enormous economic
0:41:51 > 0:41:55mess. Housing has been a big talking point in Colchester in
0:41:55 > 0:41:59Milton Keynes where both the Tories and Lib Dems are buying for overall
0:41:59 > 0:42:04control. In Norwich, the shambles of her outsourced council contract
0:42:04 > 0:42:09is being raised on the doorsteps. It is very tight in places. Some
0:42:09 > 0:42:15votes could make all the difference. Not surprisingly, the Tories are
0:42:15 > 0:42:18defending the largest number of seats. 182, twice the number being
0:42:18 > 0:42:22contested by Labour and Liberal Democrats put together. With the
0:42:22 > 0:42:30coalition on the ropes, it will be very interesting to see how much
0:42:30 > 0:42:35this graph changes by next weekend. It will indeed. Another bad weekend
0:42:35 > 0:42:41for the Conservatives. That was after the Budget, the Jeremy Hunt
0:42:41 > 0:42:46affair, and the recession. It will affect you on the polls. Added a
0:42:46 > 0:42:51lot of people understand we are in a very difficult time, we faced an
0:42:51 > 0:42:57unprecedented budget debt left by the previous government and we are
0:42:57 > 0:43:02addressing that. Obviously they are art issues -- they are issues about
0:43:02 > 0:43:09working in the coalition. I think fundamentally the key issues about
0:43:09 > 0:43:14welfare reform, they are having massive impact in the schools in my
0:43:14 > 0:43:20constituency. That is what voters will judge us on. As the party,
0:43:21 > 0:43:24Labour is a minor player in this election. We suffered some bad
0:43:24 > 0:43:31years but I think this is when we will come back. Sadly for local
0:43:31 > 0:43:35government, I think for the councillors and one to be -- ones
0:43:35 > 0:43:41that want to be, they will not be judged about local issues, people
0:43:41 > 0:43:44will use them as a verdict on central government. We have a
0:43:45 > 0:43:52government that inherited an economy that was growing, and have
0:43:52 > 0:43:59landed us back in recession, I think it is quite reasonable.
0:43:59 > 0:44:03you agree with Bob? He is right to say that people will be judged on
0:44:03 > 0:44:06what is happening nationally. In Cambridge, people have been running
0:44:06 > 0:44:10it very well, and I hope the people will vote on local issues that
0:44:10 > 0:44:14affect people wherever they are. I think nationally there have been
0:44:14 > 0:44:17some issues. The economy has been bad for some years. What has been a
0:44:17 > 0:44:23real shame for me is some of the good things in the Budget have been
0:44:23 > 0:44:33lost. 2 million people light of tax, 25 million people have had some in
0:44:33 > 0:44:37Cup tax back. -- income tax. We have increased pensions. Howard is
0:44:37 > 0:44:40being in a coalition get in the way of campaigning? As long as you
0:44:40 > 0:44:45focus on local issues I do not think it is an issue. Nationally,
0:44:45 > 0:44:49it means you have problems because we have different ideas. The
0:44:49 > 0:44:59Conservatives were absolutely obsessed with the 50 pence rate.
0:44:59 > 0:44:59
0:44:59 > 0:45:05You guys voted for it? You guys fail to vote against it. Is it
0:45:05 > 0:45:09difficult to work in a coalition and bite at local level? I think
0:45:09 > 0:45:15there are difficulties. What is different is the proposals for a
0:45:15 > 0:45:20directly elected mayors. That is having a bigger impact in London.
0:45:20 > 0:45:23Elsewhere, voters are not engaged with that. That is what I am saying,
0:45:23 > 0:45:28we should extend the number of directly elected mayors we have
0:45:28 > 0:45:35because then the race becomes about the specific policies for that area,
0:45:35 > 0:45:39rather than a referendum on the government, which it shouldn't be.
0:45:39 > 0:45:43You need to gain a foothold in this region, if you're going to form a
0:45:43 > 0:45:48government. We do. I think we will see significant steps forwards at
0:45:48 > 0:45:53these elections because people are very angry. We have all the people
0:45:53 > 0:45:56who have lost their pensions and tax allowance, we have families on
0:45:57 > 0:46:00about 20,000 a year with kids who are hundreds of pounds worse off.
0:46:00 > 0:46:06People are going to send a message to David Cameron, you have got it
0:46:06 > 0:46:10wrong and we want a change. The Lib Dems lost a third of their seats in
0:46:10 > 0:46:15the local elections, will it be the same? I hope it will be a good
0:46:15 > 0:46:25result. We have given money to pensioners and local people. Labour
0:46:25 > 0:46:28
0:46:28 > 0:46:38did spectacularly badly four years ago. Thank you. Now the 62nd
0:46:38 > 0:46:43
0:46:43 > 0:46:47political round-up. David Cameron I think not only are Cameron and Oz
0:46:47 > 0:46:570.2 mac posh boys who do not know the price of milk, but two arrogant
0:46:57 > 0:46:57
0:46:58 > 0:47:04posh boys. Damning criticism of the Prime Minister and his Chancellor.
0:47:04 > 0:47:09The future of Lotus cars in North it was raised in Parliament. This
0:47:09 > 0:47:14has got concern. Reform of the privileged few in the eyes of lards
0:47:14 > 0:47:18could put more pressure on the public purse. Conservatives are
0:47:18 > 0:47:26reducing the number of MPs. What they did not say to the electorate
0:47:26 > 0:47:33was, in return, we will give you 300 more are elected paid party
0:47:33 > 0:47:36politicians. The probe history of local newspapers attracted praise.
0:47:37 > 0:47:46Local newspapers were the most trusted news organisations in the
0:47:46 > 0:47:53pub -- in the country. Quality we can all aspire to. Was Nadine
0:47:53 > 0:47:58Dorries being disloyal? What she does voicing the concerns of many?
0:47:58 > 0:48:03I don't think she was being very loyal. I think what people care
0:48:03 > 0:48:08about is what the Government does. What people will judge us on is, at
0:48:08 > 0:48:17the next election, has the economy improved, have we build new roads?
0:48:17 > 0:48:21I think these personal attacks are missing the point. Charles Clarke
0:48:21 > 0:48:26was not backward in his criticism of Gordon Brown, is it something
0:48:26 > 0:48:30leaders need to expect? Nadine Dorries knows Cameron and Osborne
0:48:30 > 0:48:38personally, so the comments are significant. Many people will agree
0:48:38 > 0:48:41with her. Well the rest of us are suffering, David Cameron and George
0:48:41 > 0:48:47Osborne gave a massive tax cut to millionaires, the richest people in
0:48:47 > 0:48:50our society, and the Liberal Democrats like poodles all the men.
0:48:51 > 0:48:55Are you surprised there is more dissent between the Conservatives
0:48:55 > 0:49:01than the coalition? Nadine Dorries has a long track record of speaking
0:49:01 > 0:49:09her mind, and his somewhat erratic in terms of what she says, but I am