:01:37. > :01:42.How the plans for a flagship aquarium could have hit the buffers.
:01:42. > :01:52.And the prospect of lifting the hosepipe ban comes too late for our
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :30:20.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1707 seconds
:30:20. > :30:26.Good afternoon. Coming up - doubt that a multi-million pound project
:30:26. > :30:31.in Bedfordshire or a state of-the- art aquarium will ever come about.
:30:31. > :30:35.First let us meet our guests. Jim Paice, MP for South East
:30:35. > :30:41.Cambridgeshire, at the Hodgson, Liberal Democrat Mayor.
:30:41. > :30:45.Let us begin with a brief word about the Jubilee celebrations. An
:30:45. > :30:51.incredible outpouring of support for the Queen. Has that put an end
:30:51. > :31:01.to questions about the future of the monarchy. It was good to see so
:31:01. > :31:03.
:31:03. > :31:06.many people coming out despite the weather. Lot of things happening.
:31:06. > :31:13.recent poll showed around one- quarter of people in this country
:31:13. > :31:17.are republican. There are those voices. They are keeping themselves
:31:17. > :31:22.very Hedon, because I do not think it is a fraction of that. It is at
:31:22. > :31:29.tiny minority. What we have seen over the last weekend remind us how
:31:29. > :31:33.lucky we are to have a monarchy. may have rained on the Queen's
:31:33. > :31:38.Parade but after two try a winter's most of that East is the only
:31:38. > :31:45.region still in the drought zones. Even though a hosepipe ban in may
:31:45. > :31:47.be lifted soon our farmers are still at the sharp end. They are
:31:47. > :31:51.calling for a new water storage facilities. They are calling for
:31:51. > :31:56.compulsory meters in homes. Will the government's Water Bill do
:31:56. > :32:06.anything to help? How much what to do you use in
:32:06. > :32:10.total? We used 140 million gallons per year. This man is the estate
:32:10. > :32:16.director of this estate in Suffolk. In common with farmers across our
:32:16. > :32:20.region he agreed to a cut of 20 % in the what if he abstracts from
:32:20. > :32:25.rivers and boreholes. But that has had a profound effect on his
:32:25. > :32:33.business. We took the decision in January of this year it to reduce
:32:33. > :32:41.our or irrigated crops in a year by 20 %. We lost 200 acres out of our
:32:41. > :32:44.or rotation. What has that cost you? �100,000. They rain in April
:32:44. > :32:52.helped farmers and so has the recent warmer weather, but they are
:32:52. > :33:02.now irrigating. At these farms they can abstract
:33:02. > :33:03.
:33:03. > :33:07.126 million gallons per year. is a salad type of potato. We would
:33:07. > :33:13.budget on irrigating them at seven or eight times over the course of a
:33:13. > :33:17.season. Why do you not grow a variety that requires less water?
:33:17. > :33:24.If we cannot sell the variety that we have grown with less water there
:33:24. > :33:29.is no point. In December this had got nothing in it.
:33:29. > :33:33.Back on the estate this man invested more than �1 million in
:33:33. > :33:39.this reservoir. He feels that farmers have more than done their
:33:39. > :33:45.bit. The hosepipe ban he says was too little too late. He once the
:33:45. > :33:50.water companies to invest more. have agreed to this 20 % reduction.
:33:50. > :33:58.We are the first to be hit. There is the potential that they will ban
:33:58. > :34:06.all abstraction from groundwater. The hosepipe ban is a sticking
:34:06. > :34:14.plaster. Will water industry has spent �100 billion in the last 20
:34:14. > :34:19.years. It is part of a planned investment. It covers 40,000
:34:19. > :34:25.kilometres of pipes. It covers drinking water. It covers sewage
:34:25. > :34:30.and waste water that we deal with. What happens next? The Government
:34:30. > :34:36.is planning to reform the entire water industry. That will include
:34:36. > :34:39.reform of abstraction licences. This man says the drought has led
:34:39. > :34:43.everyone with an interest in what had to communicate better than they
:34:43. > :34:48.have done before, but he says there is more to do. We have got to
:34:48. > :34:53.invest in infrastructure. We are prepared to do it is far worse. The
:34:53. > :34:57.water industry should be prepared to invest in the future. The Water
:34:57. > :35:00.Bill was mentioned there. It is designed to allow businesses and
:35:00. > :35:05.public sector bodies to improve their efficiency by allowing them
:35:05. > :35:10.to switch suppliers, allowing new entrants into the market, making
:35:10. > :35:16.them respond better to customers, unlock the new sources of water
:35:16. > :35:21.supply, and to regulate their abstraction of water.
:35:21. > :35:27.However Luton MP Gavin Shuker says the bill is toothless and it could
:35:27. > :35:32.be 2000 the 30 before things change. The key issue is abstraction. The
:35:32. > :35:37.process of taking water out of the natural environment. The Government
:35:37. > :35:44.themselves have said that this process will take until 2030. That
:35:44. > :35:49.is too far away. Climate change will make drought more prevalent in
:35:49. > :35:54.the coming years. Jim Paice, do you want to respond to that allegation
:35:54. > :35:59.that you are dragging your feet? is a bit rich coming from a party
:35:59. > :36:03.that was in government until two years ago. The reality is that will
:36:03. > :36:07.take a long while to make the changes that we want to make. But
:36:07. > :36:12.there are some changes that have started happening. We are now
:36:12. > :36:19.encouraging farmers to fill the reservoirs were never there is
:36:19. > :36:29.enough water and the rivers. We encourage said to trade abstraction
:36:29. > :36:33.
:36:34. > :36:38.right. -- encouraged them to trade abstraction the right's.
:36:38. > :36:45.They Institute of Civil engineers come up with some ideas recently.
:36:45. > :36:55.One of those was compulsory water metering. Do you agree with that?
:36:55. > :36:59.It is a matter of fairness. There is a lot the public can do as well.
:36:59. > :37:04.In Bedford we have signed up to a 20 % reduction in the water we use.
:37:04. > :37:11.There is an education programme to try and encourage people to use
:37:11. > :37:20.less water. If we can get that reduction of 20 % it will alleviate
:37:20. > :37:27.the problem. With the Water Bill could there not be more in it to
:37:27. > :37:32.regulate abstraction? Yes. There is a lot in it. All abstraction is
:37:32. > :37:34.regulated. There will be tighter regulations. The Bill is going to
:37:34. > :37:39.put a time limit on some abstraction right that some people
:37:39. > :37:43.have had since ancient history. There is a great deal more
:37:43. > :37:50.regulation going to take place. It is already happening. You heard in
:37:50. > :37:56.the report how the water authorities have had to impose
:37:56. > :38:01.restrictions. The Environment Agency can implement abstraction
:38:01. > :38:05.restrictions almost overnight. have got a background in farming.
:38:05. > :38:10.Do you share the frustration of farmers at the moment? They are
:38:10. > :38:15.taking the brunt of this. They are getting the hardest hit while the
:38:15. > :38:22.water companies are taking the products. I understand their anger
:38:22. > :38:28.about that. But things have moved on. A lot has happened in the last
:38:28. > :38:34.two or three months. We have changed the rules about obstruction.
:38:34. > :38:40.We have set up a grand scheme. That means farmers can get grants
:38:40. > :38:43.towards new reservoirs. This reservoir. Is interesting. A lot of
:38:43. > :38:47.farmers say it is a great idea that we're having to jump through
:38:47. > :38:50.millions of books when it comes to planning permission. That is
:38:50. > :38:59.something the government back could make better. The government back
:38:59. > :39:03.has just announced a new national planning framework which loosens up
:39:03. > :39:08.the regulations. We are not going to bid extra restrictions on
:39:08. > :39:13.reservoirs. We have stopped that. We are freeing it up. But
:39:13. > :39:17.development need planning. Dave Hodgson, is this all about all of
:39:17. > :39:24.us taking what are too much for granted and can education play a
:39:24. > :39:34.role? Of course it is. One of the bits of the Water Bill is about
:39:34. > :39:37.
:39:37. > :39:41.opening up to competition. If it is competition that is a good thing.
:39:41. > :39:49.The water companies will have to be more competitive. They will have to
:39:49. > :39:57.look at their leaks. We will have to look at green water. -- grey
:39:57. > :40:04.water. More from me in a moment. We are going to stay with water and
:40:04. > :40:09.plans for an aquatic Centre in Bedfordshire. The Nirah project was
:40:09. > :40:12.planned seven years ago with an estimated cost of up to �500
:40:12. > :40:17.million. Despite more than �3 million in public loans the
:40:17. > :40:22.developers still have not submitted full planning permission.
:40:22. > :40:27.At disused quarry in the middle of Bedfordshire. It was once used for
:40:27. > :40:32.it claimed it end there brick industry. This is what it could
:40:32. > :40:37.look like. Costing up to �600 million, the ambitious project
:40:37. > :40:44.called Nirah, complete with a freshwater research park and
:40:44. > :40:49.leisure facilities, has been dogged by controversy and delay.
:40:49. > :40:54.Nirah is dead in the water. It is not going to happen. It is an abuse
:40:54. > :40:58.of public funds. It was an error on have of the previous county council
:40:58. > :41:03.that no longer exists. It was naivety and lack of commercial
:41:03. > :41:08.expertise. Any council going across in the future I hope will learn
:41:08. > :41:12.from the mistakes of what was the former Bedfordshire County Council.
:41:12. > :41:17.It is here at this form her quarry that they it Research Centre was
:41:17. > :41:23.supposed to have been built. It still says on a Nirah website that
:41:23. > :41:27.the project was due to be completed by spring 2012.
:41:27. > :41:29.But in the place where bricks used to be made, not a single one has
:41:29. > :41:33.been laid. What went wrong?
:41:33. > :41:38.There was a dispute over ownership of the land which ended up in a
:41:38. > :41:44.High Court. The businessmen behind the project won that fight, but the
:41:44. > :41:47.battle to secure the millions to pay for it continues to evade them.
:41:47. > :41:54.Accounts showed debts of �10 million. It is not just private
:41:54. > :41:59.money. Nirah was loaned �3 million of public money from the beginning.
:41:59. > :42:09.It is shocking. Where has the money gone? Will we get the money back? I
:42:09. > :42:17.
:42:17. > :42:22.doubt it. The money has gone. It is public money. No other planning a
:42:22. > :42:28.ever incurs public money from day one. This is where Nirah says the
:42:28. > :42:33.money was spent. �400,000 went to directors. �1.3 million went on
:42:33. > :42:38.professional fees and consultants. �1.1 million went on planning
:42:38. > :42:44.applications. The worst scenario is that the
:42:44. > :42:52.company goes to administration. We have money secured on 200 acres of
:42:52. > :42:55.land. We take possession of that site. We get our money back. I am
:42:55. > :42:59.hopeful that the money comes forward. I am hopeful that we can
:42:59. > :43:06.get our money back. I am hopeful that we will get the jobs and
:43:06. > :43:11.investment. If none of that happens? We are down at �3 million.
:43:11. > :43:19.Main Eye blames the economic downturn for the delays and say
:43:19. > :43:23.they are still seeking investment. Nirah has two more years to get
:43:23. > :43:28.full planning permission, otherwise many will say the project really is
:43:28. > :43:38.dead in the water. We invited Nirah to join us today.
:43:38. > :43:42.
:43:42. > :43:45.They were unavailable, but they Some former members of the East of
:43:45. > :43:48.England Development Agency told us that because the Department of
:43:48. > :43:54.business, innovation and skills now has responsibility for the project,
:43:54. > :44:00.they could not speak to as. Joining me now is a former Labour
:44:00. > :44:04.MP for Bedford who supported the decision at the time. Also joining
:44:04. > :44:09.as is at councillor. He helped make that decision.
:44:09. > :44:18.Let me put these criticisms to you. You heard them in the report. An
:44:18. > :44:25.abuse of public funds, naivety, and lack of commercial expertise.
:44:25. > :44:31.back to 2005 When we were approached by the Nirah team, along
:44:31. > :44:34.with representatives from Liverpool and South Wales, to build an iconic
:44:35. > :44:42.scheme that would have put to better chip on the map. We were
:44:42. > :44:47.delighted to be part of that project. We were delighted to be
:44:47. > :44:51.part of an idea which are still has a very good chance of happening.
:44:51. > :44:56.But that project be is still a hole in the ground. Let me put the
:44:56. > :45:05.criticisms to you again. An abuse of public funds, naivety, lack of
:45:05. > :45:10.commercial awareness. Nadine Dorries is entitled to her opinion,
:45:10. > :45:15.but she is wrong. A you believe the scheme will go ahead? It stands a
:45:15. > :45:20.good chance of going ahead. I am not saying it will. Where we are
:45:20. > :45:24.today is the public purse is protected. Those loans are
:45:24. > :45:29.protected. But we still stand a good chance of this happening. But
:45:29. > :45:35.it does not we get our money back. Do you agree with that? I want to
:45:35. > :45:39.pick up on the point of his being and I need use of public money. If
:45:39. > :45:43.that attitude had been applied to a project in Cornwall more than 10
:45:43. > :45:51.years ago, one of the most successful leisure projects in that
:45:51. > :45:58.country would not have taken place. There is no absolute guarantee that
:45:58. > :46:05.a project will succeed straight away. Many people are disappointed
:46:05. > :46:13.that Nirah has not got going. But it is not over yet. It is premature
:46:13. > :46:22.to write it off. Debt of nearly �10 million. �1.3 million spent on
:46:22. > :46:32.consultants. Should alarm bells not have been ringing? I have never
:46:32. > :46:34.
:46:34. > :46:41.found any evidence that it was a competition. In the current climate
:46:41. > :46:49.no private sector project would get �3 million. Richard talks about
:46:49. > :46:58.securing the land. Nirah bought the land for �1. Where they would get
:46:58. > :47:02.�3 million, I am not sure. They have been here for seven years.
:47:02. > :47:09.is a question of if they can get the money. In this climate and
:47:09. > :47:16.nobody has the money. When this was first thought of, we were and
:47:16. > :47:26.benign financial -- we were in the Apennines financial situation.
:47:26. > :47:29.
:47:29. > :47:33.There was no private money. Where was the private investment? The
:47:33. > :47:39.county council put the money in. I am worried about getting the money
:47:39. > :47:47.back. It is about accountability is it not? That is what people are
:47:47. > :47:52.frustrated that out. Who is accountable? Nirah is responsible
:47:52. > :47:57.for getting this delivered. As far as the money that is Britain from
:47:57. > :48:02.the public sector is concerned, that was scrutinised, it complied
:48:02. > :48:12.with state aid rules. Similar projects have been successful
:48:12. > :48:13.
:48:13. > :48:21.elsewhere. It Eden Project had money from Cornwall County Council.
:48:21. > :48:25.Argue happy that you back the plan? I absolutely. Even with hindsight I
:48:25. > :48:30.am delighted at the back it. I still back it. It is something we
:48:30. > :48:36.can look back on in years to come as an eye contact Park or better
:48:36. > :48:46.Chia. Thank you all very much. Time for our weekly political round-up.
:48:46. > :48:49.
:48:49. > :48:53.At what a week it has been. -- what a week it has been.
:48:53. > :48:57.Whatever the weather the party started across the region to
:48:57. > :49:00.celebrate the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. Over the past few days
:49:01. > :49:05.there was an outbreak of happiness around the country. Celebrations
:49:05. > :49:09.continued in Chelmsford, making official the city's status it was
:49:09. > :49:17.granted earlier this year to mark the Jubilee. This will create jobs
:49:17. > :49:20.for Chelmsford. All of our local businesses are changing the way
:49:20. > :49:25.they market themselves. The 68 anniversary of the D-Day landings
:49:25. > :49:32.was commemorated this week. Read were laid at a service in Norwich.
:49:32. > :49:35.The England squad visited their sponsors at Vauxhall headquarters
:49:35. > :49:40.in Luton before flying out to Euro 2012.
:49:40. > :49:43.Spirits remained high at the Suffolk Show with the Environment
:49:43. > :49:48.Secretary assured us there will be no shortage of water for the
:49:48. > :49:52.Olympics. We made provision for those Olympics sites to be provided
:49:52. > :49:58.with water. That would be sure that the going is good for the horses.