:01:33. > :01:36.Here in the East, a former Home Secretary hits out at the new
:01:36. > :01:46.police commissioner role. And the Liberal Democrat leader tells us
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :35:12.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2006 seconds
:35:12. > :35:16.he's open-minded over development Hello. I'm Etholle George. Welcome
:35:16. > :35:20.back to the new series of Sunday Politics East. We'll be at this new
:35:20. > :35:22.time every week. Coming up. Former Home Secretary Charles Clarke calls
:35:22. > :35:30.for the forthcoming Police and Crime Commissioner elections to be
:35:30. > :35:36.scrapped. I think the gunmen should call it off I this stage. I think
:35:36. > :35:39.it is an accent that is going to happen -- per government. But first,
:35:39. > :35:41.let's meet our guests for this week, Brenda Arthur, Labour leader of
:35:41. > :35:44.Norwich City Council, and Peter Aldous, the Conservative MP for
:35:44. > :35:46.Waveney. And joining us from the Liberal Democrat party conference
:35:46. > :35:50.in Brighton, is newly appointed Health Minister and North Norfolk
:35:50. > :35:52.MP, Norman Lamb. Starting with you, Mr Lamb, a word about your party
:35:52. > :36:01.leader's apology for signing a pledge not to increase tuition fees
:36:01. > :36:07.that was subsequently broken. This is what he told us. I am sure there
:36:07. > :36:12.will be some people who will never moved on and never accept that it
:36:12. > :36:17.is a sincere apology for a sincere mistake. But I think many we double
:36:17. > :36:22.people will accept that in politics, as well as in life, it is sometimes
:36:22. > :36:26.right to put your hand up when you have made a mistake but also hold
:36:26. > :36:31.your head up high for the good things we are doing. Did you know
:36:31. > :36:37.he was going to make this apology? Yes, he briefed the parliamentary
:36:37. > :36:42.party a few days before doing it so we were all aware of it and nothing
:36:42. > :36:52.will supported him. Is it a good idea to bring it up again at this
:36:52. > :36:53.
:36:53. > :36:58.time? Will thus be an ally lives make mistakes. When that happens, I
:36:58. > :37:04.think it is best to accept it, to be open and honest about it, to say
:37:04. > :37:07.that you have messed up. And to draw attention also to the fact
:37:07. > :37:12.that there are unlawful lot of things we are doing in government
:37:12. > :37:16.that we committed to in our manifesto, particularly reducing
:37:16. > :37:22.the tax burden on middle and low income families, and taking
:37:22. > :37:26.millions of people out of tax at the low income scale. That is
:37:26. > :37:32.happening because of the Liberal Democrats in government. We made
:37:32. > :37:42.mistakes, and we accept that. On student finance, all parties have a
:37:42. > :37:44.
:37:44. > :37:49.very chequered record full stop Brenda Arthur, there is no merit in
:37:49. > :37:54.acknowledging a mistake. Absolutely, but I think Nick Clegg should also
:37:54. > :38:00.be apologising back the other you turned he is making. They have
:38:00. > :38:04.overseen an increase in taxes in terms of VAT, the granny tax.
:38:04. > :38:11.Should not Labour apologise for leaving the country in a terrible
:38:11. > :38:18.economic state? This is a myth that is being perpetuated. Hour national
:38:18. > :38:27.deficit and debt was lower than we took on in 1997 and lower than
:38:27. > :38:32.other countries until the crisis, when Lehman Brothers crashed.
:38:32. > :38:38.Aldous, and students have said it is not making the pledge, but
:38:38. > :38:44.breaking a pledge that he should apologise for. The rise in fees has
:38:44. > :38:49.led to a 14 % fall in student numbers. I think he was right to
:38:50. > :38:54.make that apology. The Liberal Democrats set out their pledge,
:38:54. > :38:59.perhaps believing they were going to be in government on their own.
:38:59. > :39:05.That was never likely to be happen. It was always going to be with one
:39:05. > :39:10.of the two main parties. Both of those parties were committed to the
:39:10. > :39:13.proposals of Lord Brown with regard to higher education. More from Nick
:39:13. > :39:16.Clegg on the future for our airports in a moment, but first to
:39:16. > :39:19.the attack on the role of Police and Crime Commissioners by former
:39:19. > :39:23.Home Secretary and Norwich South MP, Charles Clarke. Elections for the
:39:23. > :39:25.heads of our eight police forces, who will have the power to hire and
:39:25. > :39:29.fire Chief Constables, will be taking place in just seven weeks
:39:29. > :39:31.time. The Home Office insists the commissioners will hold forces to
:39:31. > :39:35.account and restore trust, but according to Mr Clarke, they could
:39:35. > :39:45.do untold damage and should be scrapped. Here's our home affairs
:39:45. > :39:45.
:39:45. > :39:51.correspondent, Sally Chidzoy. Cash-strapped police forces are
:39:51. > :39:54.hard to stress to work the front line. In Essex, this crack down on
:39:54. > :39:59.anti-social behaviour would probably not have gone ahead this
:39:59. > :40:05.week had it not been for funding handout from the Home Office.
:40:05. > :40:08.Police are facing a dramatic upheaval. They will soon be run by
:40:08. > :40:15.all powerful elected to Police and Crime Commissioners. The plan will
:40:15. > :40:19.fall at the first hurdle, once a former MP for the area he believes
:40:19. > :40:24.it will be a disaster. I think it is an accent that is certain to
:40:24. > :40:29.happen. It will learn to tensions and demoralisation and departure of
:40:29. > :40:36.senior police officers. Theresa May could make the decision to call it
:40:36. > :40:39.off and she should. The main politician who back this, Nick
:40:39. > :40:44.Herbert, was either resigned or sack from the government. They
:40:44. > :40:49.should wash their hands of it and start again. But the government has
:40:49. > :40:54.no plans to do that. Powers include hiring and firing the Chief
:40:54. > :40:59.Constable, producing the police and crime plan, setting force budgets
:40:59. > :41:07.and engaging with the public. On this estate in Chelmsford, people
:41:07. > :41:11.want to see more police on the street. Crime, drugs. There is lots
:41:11. > :41:16.of drugs around here. But the police have not got the resources.
:41:17. > :41:21.Would you be voting for the police and crime Commissioner? Haven't
:41:21. > :41:28.heard of it, to be honest with you. What is it to the people in
:41:28. > :41:34.Chelmsford? Around here, people are unaware of the new plan. Have you
:41:34. > :41:38.heard of a police commissioner around here? Know. Around the
:41:38. > :41:43.region, people preparing for elections in November. Potentially,
:41:43. > :41:47.the person winning this election will have the largest mandate of
:41:47. > :41:53.any person in Essex. They will be in charge of a very large police
:41:53. > :41:58.force and a budget I've over �280 million. It is a very important
:41:58. > :42:02.role and I think once the publicity comes out after the nominations
:42:02. > :42:10.opened in October, then I think people will start to identify with
:42:10. > :42:13.the role and see that it is an important job. The government says
:42:13. > :42:18.the commissioners will not manage the forces that they Govan and that
:42:18. > :42:22.operational decisions will be left to the chief constable. But the
:42:22. > :42:28.guidance is and clear and critics save there is the potential for
:42:28. > :42:34.conflict between the commissioner and the chief constable. If you get
:42:34. > :42:37.elected politicians coming in on issues, back crates the crisis of
:42:37. > :42:43.command and control, as the Chief Constable does not know how to
:42:43. > :42:45.deploy forces in the most effective way. The Home Office insists that
:42:45. > :42:49.police and crime commissioners cannot operate against the law,
:42:49. > :42:53.that they will work with their forces to cut crime, give the
:42:53. > :42:59.public and voice and hold forces to account.
:42:59. > :43:03.Norman Lamb, your party says that they are not backing the role, but
:43:03. > :43:10.local parties can fight these elections if they want to. That is
:43:10. > :43:14.a strange Fudge, isn't it? I think it is on the record than we did not
:43:14. > :43:18.see this as a priority. But just as we secured cutting tax as part of
:43:18. > :43:23.the coalition agreement, this was something that the Conservatives
:43:23. > :43:28.wanted and we went along with it, we have accepted it as part of the
:43:28. > :43:32.coalition agreement. I would not want to see a party politicisation
:43:32. > :43:37.of the police force, but I think there is a case for much greater
:43:37. > :43:42.and local accountability of what the police do. In principle, there
:43:42. > :43:46.is a good case for this. I do not agree there for with what Charles
:43:46. > :43:54.Clarke has said. Brenda Arthur, Labour does not approve of the role
:43:54. > :43:57.either, but is backing the election. Isn't that hypocritical? I do not
:43:57. > :44:03.think it is. I support the view of Charles Clarke and we should
:44:03. > :44:09.scrappage and put the funding of it towards the police. But we have the
:44:09. > :44:13.situation that we are in, then we want to make sure that we have
:44:13. > :44:17.Labour candidates there who will deliver our values and will make
:44:17. > :44:25.sure communities are listened to, that local police forces are not
:44:25. > :44:33.privatised. Peter Aldous, what about this cost, �125 million? Your
:44:33. > :44:37.party has decided to spend it during the recession. It is costing
:44:37. > :44:42.some two �5 million to Knowsley put on the election, but that is not
:44:42. > :44:47.coming out of the police funds. Over the years, the police have
:44:47. > :44:52.become more and more centralised. Accountability has become more
:44:52. > :44:59.invisible, and this is about improving local accountability.
:44:59. > :45:04.Your average council tax bill is made up of a council element, a
:45:04. > :45:09.district council element and also the police precept. The other
:45:10. > :45:14.bodies you can hold to account. who is going to hold the police and
:45:14. > :45:20.crime Commissioner to account? too many, the electorate will,
:45:20. > :45:26.every four cures. There is also a police and crime panel which will
:45:26. > :45:34.oversee and provide those necessary checks on the commissioner. What
:45:34. > :45:40.this is actually about his issues like crime and anti-social
:45:40. > :45:44.behaviour, reconnecting them to the public. Norman Lamb, what back some
:45:44. > :45:48.of those points raised by Charles Clarke, you cannot override the law
:45:49. > :45:53.and the potential for conflict is enormous? There is the potential
:45:53. > :45:58.for conflict but I think that can be managed. I think this essential
:45:58. > :46:03.point that Peter has made that you can hold other and local
:46:03. > :46:07.organisations who received our council tax money to account, but
:46:07. > :46:16.you cannot hold the police to account. There is a case for giving
:46:16. > :46:22.the police that local accountability. Very briefly, do
:46:22. > :46:26.you think that introducing politics into policing is a good idea?
:46:26. > :46:32.not a great fan of the party politicisation of police
:46:32. > :46:36.commissioners. But I think the idea of fun accountability to the local
:46:36. > :46:40.community, the party has said that independent candidates standing is
:46:40. > :46:46.a good thing and weather are not independent candidates, then the
:46:46. > :46:50.party will put forward candidates. I'd think it is absolutely wrong.
:46:50. > :46:56.The accountability was there through the Police Authority, which
:46:56. > :47:00.was made up from people across the whole area. There are very clear
:47:00. > :47:05.checks and balances. The commissioner will have to sign a
:47:05. > :47:10.pledge of impartiality and the police and crime panel will provide
:47:10. > :47:13.a further cheque to sure there is not over politicisation.
:47:13. > :47:16.Now, the Liberal Democrat Conference is under way in Brighton
:47:16. > :47:19.and today they debate aviation policy. Party leader Nick Clegg
:47:19. > :47:22.spoke to Andrew Sinclair earlier this week, when he restated the
:47:22. > :47:25.Liberal Democrat opposition to a third runway at Heathrow, but in
:47:25. > :47:35.what appears to be a shift in policy, he does not rule out more
:47:35. > :47:36.
:47:36. > :47:41.development at Stansted in Essex. I have heard so many politicians
:47:41. > :47:44.somehow pretending they are aviation experts. I am not an
:47:44. > :47:49.aviation expert. One moment someone says we should we build Stansted,
:47:49. > :47:55.then they say build an airport in the history, then they say builder
:47:55. > :48:01.up airport in Birmingham. Now I think it is important we say to
:48:01. > :48:06.independent experts, report to ask. So it is possible any work then?
:48:06. > :48:13.own view is that the one option that does not stand up to any
:48:13. > :48:19.scrutiny at talk is the idea of an extra runway in Heathrow. From an
:48:19. > :48:22.environmental perspective that his bat. They will be filled up within
:48:22. > :48:28.years and you'd have to build another one. But I think you need
:48:28. > :48:35.to be open-minded and driven by the evidence. The people are they to
:48:35. > :48:38.beg for due again in the east, what do you stand for? You will have
:48:38. > :48:43.compromises. There were numerous manifesto commitments made by the
:48:43. > :48:50.Conservatives which they have not delivered. Bulwark in the point
:48:50. > :48:55.too? I can point to the four things we put on the front of on manifesto.
:48:55. > :49:00.More money for the people premium, so that all schools and all
:49:00. > :49:06.children get the best education they deserve. Their commitment to
:49:06. > :49:09.raise the point which you stop paying income tax to �10,000. A
:49:10. > :49:15.commitment to sort out the banks and rescue the economy after the
:49:15. > :49:19.mistakes of Labour. And fourth, pushing for political reform after
:49:19. > :49:28.the expenses scandal. All those four things, which we campaigned on
:49:28. > :49:31.as our key commitments, or four of them we have stuck to. Norman Lamb,
:49:31. > :49:35.your manifesto about cancelling plans for a fourth runway at
:49:35. > :49:41.Heathrow and any other expansion in the south-east, so what has
:49:41. > :49:46.changed? As Nick said, I think it makes sense to look at the evidence
:49:46. > :49:51.and have an independent process. What we all recognise is that if we
:49:51. > :49:56.are to rebalance our economy, over the last decade it became
:49:56. > :50:01.completely dependent on consumer debt and the public sector. Part of
:50:02. > :50:05.the rebalancing is building export markets. If we are to compete in a
:50:05. > :50:10.global economy we have to have the airport capacity in able to be able
:50:10. > :50:16.to reach those new markets. Looking at the evidence on an independent
:50:16. > :50:21.basis does surely make sense. We will seek to apply that evidence in
:50:21. > :50:28.government. What about the future of Stansted? Should have become the
:50:28. > :50:31.country's future heart airport? Rather as Mick said, I am not an
:50:31. > :50:38.aviation expert, I do not know ultimately what the right outcome
:50:38. > :50:43.should be on the basis of evidence. We should look at that evidence and
:50:43. > :50:47.not reach premature judgments about what the right way forward is for
:50:47. > :50:53.increasing capacity to ensure that we can reach those new export
:50:53. > :50:56.markets whilst also being absolutely cognisant of the
:50:56. > :51:02.environmental impact of aviation. That has driven up position on
:51:02. > :51:07.Heathrow, in particular the impact on the built-up area in west London.
:51:07. > :51:11.Let us talk more about General Liberal Democrats policies. Nick
:51:11. > :51:18.Clegg and listed some of the achievements made, but you have not
:51:18. > :51:22.have the credit for them with the public, have you? I think it is
:51:22. > :51:26.tough in government. This is the toughest period to be in government
:51:27. > :51:32.in any period since the second world war. But you try to do what
:51:32. > :51:36.is right for the country. You did the right thing. I think political
:51:36. > :51:43.stability at a time of incredible economic danger and turbulence is,
:51:43. > :51:48.for me, a priceless commodity. That is what Nick Clegg and the Liberal
:51:48. > :51:51.Democrats are providing. On top of that, we can achieve some real
:51:51. > :51:55.Liberal Democrat objectives. I mention that we are taking the
:51:55. > :52:00.lowest paid out of income tax and cutting the tax burden for millions
:52:00. > :52:04.of low and middle-income households. These are real achievements,
:52:04. > :52:07.together with targeting resources at children from the poorest
:52:08. > :52:14.background at school. We would not be up to do that if we were not in
:52:14. > :52:20.government. Do you want Nick Clegg to stay as party leader? Yes, I do.
:52:20. > :52:24.He has taken the flak, he has taken the hit, in a sense, for the team.
:52:24. > :52:29.But he did the right thing for the country in taking a really
:52:29. > :52:35.difficult step for a party that have been in opposition, taking the
:52:35. > :52:38.party into government. I think we stepped up to the plate. We have
:52:38. > :52:47.demonstrated discipline in government. We are seeking to build
:52:47. > :52:49.the foundations for recovery. That is in the national interest. Now,
:52:49. > :52:52.it's not just police commissioner elections this autumn, but the
:52:52. > :52:56.people of Corby and East Northamptonshire will also be
:52:56. > :52:59.heading to the polls to elect a new MP. Best selling author Louise
:52:59. > :53:02.Mensch resigned in the summer, sparking the first by-election the
:53:02. > :53:12.Conservatives are defending in this parliament. And, as Andrew Sinclar
:53:12. > :53:13.
:53:13. > :53:18.reports, its outcome could be critical.
:53:18. > :53:22.It is probably safe to say that whoever wins the court the by-
:53:22. > :53:26.election will be very different to their predecessor. In the space of
:53:26. > :53:31.two years, Louise Mensch became one of the most well-known women in
:53:31. > :53:36.children. From magazine photo shoots, to print the Murdochs, to
:53:36. > :53:40.no holding back on Twitter, she was rarely out of the news, and then
:53:40. > :53:45.she decided to go. It was more about the family that was put
:53:45. > :53:50.across the Atlantic and about being a working mother. It is incredibly
:53:50. > :53:54.sad, she was a superb parliamentarian, Abri a member of
:53:54. > :53:59.the select committee. So important is this election that they are not
:53:59. > :54:04.even waiting for the starting gun. The candidates are already pounding
:54:04. > :54:10.the streets and the big names dropping in to visit. Why? This is
:54:10. > :54:15.no ordinary by-election. Corby has always gone with the party that has
:54:15. > :54:18.formed a government, so it is an iconic seat and everybody will be a
:54:18. > :54:23.king at it is Hibbert tells us anything about the next general
:54:23. > :54:27.election. That is why the Prime Minister dropped in on Friday,
:54:27. > :54:32.albeit briefly. The government has to stick with the programme to
:54:32. > :54:36.deliver the change that is necessary and recognise that we are
:54:36. > :54:40.starting to seek rebalancing in the economy. It is tough, it is
:54:40. > :54:46.difficult, but we have to stick with the programme, because that
:54:46. > :54:54.will deliver the growth that is needed. Labour start off with an
:54:54. > :54:59.advantage. Their candidate, at Andy Sawford, was chosen last year. The
:54:59. > :55:02.Tories quickly picked local businesswoman Christine Emmett.
:55:02. > :55:07.Because this is a by-election there is already a string of other
:55:07. > :55:11.candidates looking to make their mark. Whether it is in the town of
:55:11. > :55:15.Corby or the pretty villages of East and Northamptonshire, everyone
:55:16. > :55:20.is agreed that it is the economy that will be the main issue. Expect
:55:21. > :55:24.a noisy and hard-fought campaign. Now, the Lib Dems are not the only
:55:24. > :55:32.party with a Conference, as Deborah McGurran reports in our 60 second
:55:32. > :55:38.round up of the political week. Still hoping to change the
:55:38. > :55:43.political landscape, the UK Independence Party, his conference
:55:44. > :55:48.calls for a pledge that there be a referendum on EU membership.
:55:48. > :55:53.think some of the key things that we talked about, our relationship
:55:53. > :55:58.with the European Union, are racing to the top of the political agenda.
:55:58. > :56:05.The Green Party's new leader chose Suffolk for her first official
:56:05. > :56:10.visit. Looking forward to the European elections in 2014. We are
:56:10. > :56:14.hoping to elect our first Green MEP from the eastern region. Millions
:56:14. > :56:20.of tons from under London is to form Europe's biggest man-made
:56:20. > :56:24.nature reserve off the coast of Essex. Plans to shut a prison
:56:24. > :56:27.caught Peter Bone off guard. have been told for years and years
:56:27. > :56:33.that there are not enough places in our prisons, that they are
:56:33. > :56:39.overcrowded. News at accommodation at a new centre parks in bed
:56:39. > :56:43.picture could create up to 1500 jobs in the future.
:56:43. > :56:52.Peter Aldous, what is this idea about an agreement with you could?
:56:52. > :57:00.Is that a pact with the devil or a meeting of minds? I think Nigel
:57:00. > :57:05.Farage is mischief-making. There will not be an agreement. The
:57:05. > :57:09.Conservative Party will stand on its own two fate. For a
:57:09. > :57:14.relationship with the European Union, with the eurozone and the
:57:14. > :57:18.crisis came on there, there may be changes in the eurozone and that is
:57:18. > :57:21.an appropriate time for us to we took our relationship with them and
:57:21. > :57:26.we will come forward with policies that take into account the best
:57:26. > :57:36.interests of the country. Brenda Arthur, if it worked, any pact with
:57:36. > :57:39.Labour would work against you? not believe so. I think it shows
:57:39. > :57:47.had an air of desperation from those Conservatives that of
:57:47. > :57:51.thinking about it. Nigel Farage is sending very mixed messages. I