:01:32. > :01:34.Labour seizes Corby, the Tories get a drubbing, and the Lib Dems lose
:01:34. > :01:44.their deposit. And now our Police and Crime Commissioners are elected,
:01:44. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :41:27.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2382 seconds
:41:27. > :41:31.just how will they change the Hello, and welcome to Sunday
:41:31. > :41:41.Politics East, I'm Etholle George. Later, Labour regains Corby, with a
:41:41. > :41:41.
:41:41. > :41:48.swing of almost 13%. We have stood as a one-inch a candidate for in
:41:48. > :41:51.one nation Labour Party. -- in one nation candidate for in one nation
:41:51. > :41:54.Labour Party. And the region's Police and Crime Commissioners'
:41:54. > :41:57.plans for their forces. But first, let me introduce our guests of the
:41:57. > :42:00.week, Richard Bacon, Conservative MP for South Norfolk, Simon Wright
:42:00. > :42:03.the Liberal Democrat MP for Norwich South, and Steve Morphew, Norwich
:42:03. > :42:06.Labour Party president. Let's start with our soundbite of the week, now
:42:06. > :42:14.a jury has decided that former Luton MP Margaret Moran falsely
:42:15. > :42:19.claimed �53,000 in expenses. This is what she had to say at the time.
:42:19. > :42:26.I do not want my constituents to think there is something dodgy,
:42:26. > :42:32.there was not. I say that hand on heart. I would not. I am trying to
:42:32. > :42:37.do a good job for my constituents and to give 110%.
:42:38. > :42:42.Has justice been done, others went to jail? Margaret Moran is a shadow
:42:42. > :42:46.of the person she was, she is a broken woman. Her health has
:42:46. > :42:52.probably suffered, she has a reputation in tatters she won never
:42:52. > :42:58.recover from. On the just decide come up when Ron Dearing has been
:42:58. > :43:03.done, it should be identified and brought out -- wrong doing. One of
:43:03. > :43:07.the reasons I am other MPs came in was because of the disillusionment
:43:07. > :43:12.that there was with the political system because of the degree of
:43:12. > :43:18.scandals associated with expenses. What is so important now is that
:43:18. > :43:23.those of us in government today do what we can to clean up the system.
:43:23. > :43:27.Does it seem fair that stress brought on by the subject being
:43:27. > :43:33.involved in investigation means they do not pay the penalty? That
:43:33. > :43:39.is difficult because what is most important is that wrong doing it
:43:39. > :43:44.comes to surface, and help you punish people is separate. But it
:43:44. > :43:51.cannot go on acknowledged and she will have to pay a price. Does this
:43:51. > :43:57.draw a line under this sorry business of expenses? The decision
:43:57. > :44:03.over whether someone is fit to stand trial or not is not something
:44:03. > :44:08.politicians should interfere with. We have over 200 new MPs since the
:44:08. > :44:12.last election and in much more open approach to expenses. Not as open
:44:13. > :44:17.as I would like, and would like there to be instant publication of
:44:17. > :44:20.expenses, so there is still more to do. -- I would like.
:44:20. > :44:23.Now to Labour's romp home in the Corby by-election. Andy Sawford,
:44:23. > :44:28.won a majority of almost 7,800, with a huge 12.7% swing to Labour
:44:28. > :44:32.in the bell-weather seed. -- seat. The results also put a smile on the
:44:32. > :44:35.faces of UKIP supporters in the town. But was this just a flash in
:44:35. > :44:44.the pan, or is there something more profound in this result? Here is
:44:44. > :44:50.Andrew Sinclair. It is easy to dismiss Corby as just
:44:50. > :44:57.another by-election result that has not really matter. Parties do
:44:57. > :45:01.always lose ground. But Corby was always going to be different. The
:45:01. > :45:06.industrial town and the rolling countryside Borrie microcosm of the
:45:06. > :45:13.whole country. Politicians believe that what people think here
:45:13. > :45:18.reflects what everybody is thinking. The economy is important to me.
:45:18. > :45:25.Corby needs a real boost. There are hardly any jobs, the foreigners are
:45:25. > :45:30.getting them. Immigration is a big issue in this town. Jobs and the
:45:30. > :45:34.economy were the main issues. The Tories spoke about the falling
:45:34. > :45:40.unemployment figures and growth in investment as a sign of things were
:45:40. > :45:44.turning a corner, voters did not agree. Labour talked about creating
:45:44. > :45:48.jobs and focused on public services, the switching off of street lights
:45:48. > :45:52.and the threat to the local hospital. They do not think the
:45:52. > :45:55.Government is listening gone public services and they think they're a
:45:55. > :46:01.major threat to Kettering General Hospital and they want a government
:46:01. > :46:05.to build public services and a river for everybody. Immigration
:46:05. > :46:09.was a serious concern. UKIP has said no other parties were
:46:09. > :46:13.listening, one reason why it did so well. Eastern European immigration
:46:13. > :46:20.has a massive knock-on effect to so many things and that is what people
:46:20. > :46:25.wanted to talk about. It affects the NHS, housing, jobs, and
:46:26. > :46:31.schooling. So if PPCs does reflect what the country is thinking,
:46:31. > :46:38.should politicians do more than dismiss results? -- so with Corby.
:46:38. > :46:42.A constituency that so dramatically throughout labour two years ago
:46:42. > :46:45.seems now willing to give the party another chance, is this mid-term
:46:45. > :46:48.blues or the start of something bigger?
:46:48. > :46:53.Just a few minutes ago, I spoke to Andy Sawford and asked him why he
:46:53. > :46:58.believes he won in Corby. Can I start by saying how proud I am that
:46:58. > :47:05.people across Corby put their trust in me? We won because we worked
:47:05. > :47:11.hard across the constituency to rebuild trust from the voters, and
:47:11. > :47:15.refocused on their priorities. We had a big listening exercise and
:47:15. > :47:21.people want action on the economy. They feel let down by David Cameron.
:47:21. > :47:25.Two years ago, a lot of people who voted for me this week just to
:47:25. > :47:30.David Cameron and they feel let down, so this is a big moment for
:47:30. > :47:34.Labour and it shows we are reconnecting with voters. We have
:47:34. > :47:38.heard what people had to say and they said there are problems that
:47:38. > :47:45.need addressing locally, youth unemployment, the issue of
:47:45. > :47:50.regeneration, how will you deliver? What I have said about unemployment
:47:50. > :47:55.is that fighting for jobs here is my top priority, particularly for
:47:55. > :48:00.young people, so I will call for alternative economic policies in
:48:00. > :48:07.Parliament and I will say we should have a tax on bonuses for bankers
:48:07. > :48:11.and a guarantee for younger people and jobs. I will work hard locally
:48:11. > :48:15.with businesses, the council and other organisations to make sure we
:48:15. > :48:18.match the skills young people have all with good jobs becoming
:48:18. > :48:23.available to do everything we can to support local businesses to grow
:48:23. > :48:31.and create jobs. Concerns over immigration have surfaced during
:48:31. > :48:35.this campaign, how will you address those? One of the big issues in
:48:35. > :48:39.Corby in particular and across this constituency of the number of
:48:39. > :48:44.agency workers there are recruited from overseas on local people do
:48:44. > :48:50.not feel they have had a fair chance to find work and apply for a
:48:50. > :48:57.job. So I have promised to try to stop agencies just recruiting from
:48:57. > :48:59.overseas. I think that is wrong. And joining us now is Professor
:48:59. > :49:03.Paul Whiteley, from the Department of Government at the University of
:49:03. > :49:05.Essex. The first by-election win for 15 years, do you think it is
:49:05. > :49:07.the beginning of the end for David Cameron?
:49:07. > :49:12.Obviously, Labour is going to be very cheerful about this and I
:49:12. > :49:18.think there was an element of punishing the Conservatives over
:49:18. > :49:24.the withdrawal of Louise Mensch, that was so quick. The present
:49:24. > :49:29.economic climate is one of the key factors driving first and unless we
:49:29. > :49:34.see more prosperity and growth, I think Labour will continue to take
:49:34. > :49:36.places in by-elections -- driving first.
:49:36. > :49:45.Is there anything about Corby intrinsically that makes it such an
:49:45. > :49:50.important seat? It is not exactly a marginal, but
:49:50. > :49:55.it is close and that is why it is interesting politically in
:49:55. > :50:01.elections. Seats like that swing towards the party that is likely to
:50:01. > :50:05.be most successful in the long-run. You can make too much of by-
:50:05. > :50:09.elections because there are sometimes spectacular swings and
:50:09. > :50:18.this can disappear in a general election, but it is a sign of the
:50:18. > :50:25.times. What about the position of UKIP and the Liberal Democrats been
:50:25. > :50:29.beaten into 4th place? elections for the PCCs has been
:50:29. > :50:33.terrible for the Lib Dems and UKIP is snapping at the heels of the
:50:33. > :50:38.Conservatives and this will affect the politics of the next couple of
:50:38. > :50:43.years, especially in the context where there are a majority of
:50:43. > :50:47.people who would leave the European Union if we had a referendum. This
:50:47. > :50:53.has changed in comparison with 10 years ago. So this will be quite an
:50:54. > :50:57.issue. Richard Bacon, this was a terrible result for you, the people
:50:57. > :51:01.of Corby feel let down by the Conservatives.
:51:01. > :51:06.It is a by-election and you can make too much of them. It is an
:51:06. > :51:10.interesting result and we have to take notice but it is common for
:51:10. > :51:15.party's mid-term to lose by- elections and we had the factor of
:51:15. > :51:21.Louise Mensch. But she lost by a great deal, should we not read
:51:21. > :51:27.something into that? -- but you lost. The swing to Labour was less
:51:27. > :51:32.than in the crew and Norwich by- election. It is commonplace for
:51:32. > :51:36.governments taking tough decisions to lose elections. We are doing
:51:36. > :51:40.this because we were left in such a mess by it the Labour Party.
:51:40. > :51:42.Simon, it was a shocking result for the Lib Dems and it's not the only
:51:42. > :51:46.recent by-election, UKIP are overtaking you in the polls. It was
:51:46. > :51:51.a bad result but a Liberal-Democrat candidate has been working hard in
:51:52. > :51:56.Corby. The experience of party is not in the front running for a by-
:51:56. > :52:01.election is that you get squeezed out. UKIP did exceptionally well
:52:01. > :52:05.because there was a factor of Europe that emerged. But you also
:52:05. > :52:10.need to look at the fact that Labour hammered away to get the
:52:10. > :52:14.biggest result here. There was another factor with Corby, the
:52:15. > :52:18.media were talking this up as a constituency where you can draw the
:52:19. > :52:25.mood of the nation, so it was important for Labour to get the
:52:25. > :52:32.best result. In that context, somebody is going to be squeezed
:52:32. > :52:37.out. But she came 4th! Nobody was saying that we were in the running
:52:37. > :52:39.for running it, we were always going to get squeezed out by the
:52:39. > :52:45.bigger organisations. Steve, why did you lose Corby in
:52:46. > :52:50.the first place? Because we lost the confidence of the country and
:52:50. > :52:54.we are starting to regain the confidence and that was a good
:52:54. > :52:59.indication. When you have been in politics for a while, you know when
:52:59. > :53:09.the wind has changed. It looks as though the wind is blowing our way,
:53:09. > :53:09.
:53:09. > :53:13.I knew when it was against us before and I know it is for us now.
:53:13. > :53:19.Professor, do you believe -- Was this a vote for Labour, or a
:53:19. > :53:23.vote against the Conservatives? big issue is the economy and of the
:53:23. > :53:29.coalition can show this is improving, they may be able to
:53:29. > :53:33.repeat the exercise of Barack Obama we do this successfully in the
:53:33. > :53:39.presidential elections. If this continues to flop line, the
:53:40. > :53:44.coalition are likely to lose the election -- flat line. This must be
:53:44. > :53:48.a big worry for the Conservatives. The economy will play a big factor
:53:48. > :53:52.in whether we are returned and there have been signs of economic
:53:52. > :53:55.groves with nearly 1 million jobs created in the last two years.
:53:55. > :53:59.Richard, you've got a lot of work to do to win over people before the
:53:59. > :54:01.next election, and there is still 80% of the cuts to come.
:54:01. > :54:11.government has to live within its means and cannot spend money it
:54:11. > :54:11.
:54:11. > :54:21.does not have. The know at the last government left said, sorry, --
:54:21. > :54:23.
:54:23. > :54:30.sorry, there is no money. -- note. People understand that the
:54:30. > :54:33.government has to live within its own means.
:54:33. > :54:36.Now to our other elections this week - for the new role of Police
:54:36. > :54:38.and Crime Commissioners. You can see from the map that all our
:54:38. > :54:40.forces have Conservative Commissioners, except for one
:54:40. > :54:44.Independent in Norfolk and one Labour Commissioner in Bedfordshire.
:54:44. > :54:47.Average turnout here was 15%. But 85 out of 100 of you decided not to
:54:47. > :54:50.vote at all. And in several of our counties, almost 3% of ballot
:54:50. > :55:00.papers were spoiled, many of those defaced by people criticising the
:55:00. > :55:00.
:55:00. > :55:05.elections. Despite this, those elected have high hopes of success.
:55:05. > :55:10.Have six Alexei Commissioner with the lowest mandate in the country.
:55:10. > :55:15.-- Essex collapse a Commissioner. This is what the government does
:55:15. > :55:20.and money will be tight, but if we are to get everybody pulling
:55:20. > :55:28.together, their real opportunities. Labour go ahead in Suffolk but it
:55:28. > :55:34.is a Tory win. Most important is to get the police plan ready for
:55:34. > :55:38.public scrutiny. The only Labour police and crime Commission that
:55:38. > :55:43.wins in Bedfordshire in the east. The turnout has been disappointing
:55:43. > :55:47.and it has been because of the timing, people are not sufficiently
:55:47. > :55:51.informed about it, and because of the obstacles the government chose
:55:51. > :55:58.to put in the way of allowing the parties and the candidates to
:55:58. > :56:02.inform people about the elections. Thames Valley Alexis for a
:56:02. > :56:07.Conservative Commissioner up on the second ballot -- it lacks. As long
:56:07. > :56:12.as you sit on top, you will reduce crime. You need to put resources
:56:12. > :56:18.where they are required and make sure the officers are in the right
:56:18. > :56:22.place, and you drive up performance. Northamptonshire, which also had a
:56:23. > :56:27.by-election, had the highest regional turnout. I am promising a
:56:27. > :56:32.voice so there is a leader of the criminal justice system for the
:56:32. > :56:36.first time, there is a directly the leader -- directly elected leader,
:56:36. > :56:42.and people in the middle who have never been victims up but no police
:56:42. > :56:48.will turn up. A former MP wins for Cambridgeshire on the second ballot.
:56:48. > :56:54.We have to put together the whole operation, it is new. I intend to
:56:54. > :57:00.set up office away from the police headquarters to show my neutrality.
:57:00. > :57:06.That is going to be a task, and I have to look at the staff that we
:57:06. > :57:12.have and do some reorganisation. Hertfordshire's turnout was 14.5%,
:57:12. > :57:16.just below the average in the east. It is important to shake up crime
:57:16. > :57:20.reduction, working together with partnerships to make sure the safe
:57:20. > :57:25.place is an even safer place to live and work and I am looking
:57:25. > :57:33.forward to that. The only Independent is the elected in
:57:33. > :57:38.Norfolk. I am going to see places in Suffolk and see if they will
:57:38. > :57:41.carry on collaboration. This was the former Tory chairman of the
:57:41. > :57:45.police authority. Steve Morphew, you, of course, were
:57:45. > :57:48.standing as the Labour candidate in Norfolk. In the build-up to this
:57:48. > :57:50.election, it emerged you failed to declare an interest in a charity
:57:50. > :57:54.which was awarded �36,000 by a cabinet committee, of which you
:57:54. > :57:57.were chairman. You issued a statement saying you had done
:57:57. > :58:04.nothing wrong, but this is your first opportunity to give your side
:58:04. > :58:09.of the story. It is an allegation that it
:58:09. > :58:13.happened and I have disputed it and I have asked the council to
:58:13. > :58:17.investigate because it is serious. But most people are surprised it
:58:17. > :58:24.emerged at the time and in the way it did, but I am treating it
:58:24. > :58:28.seriously. You are concerned about the recording of minutes of
:58:28. > :58:33.meetings where apparently you wanted to make it plane it you
:58:33. > :58:38.declared an interest, it yes? Having been on the Council for 15
:58:38. > :58:42.years and declared an interest on numerous occasions, I could not
:58:42. > :58:50.conceive by had not declared an interest, but I want to make sure
:58:50. > :58:55.that is the case. Did you check the minutes? The meeting was in March
:58:55. > :58:58.and I left the council immediately afterwards. The next meeting was in
:58:58. > :59:08.June and I have not seen a copy of the minutes, the first time I saw
:59:08. > :59:12.
:59:12. > :59:14.them was a couple of minutes ago. Professor Broadening it out, the
:59:14. > :59:21.lowest turnout in a national election, does this damage
:59:21. > :59:28.democracy? The electoral system helped 12 people who are
:59:28. > :59:33.Independent to be elected. If it had been first past the post, the
:59:33. > :59:38.Conservatives would have won in Norfolk and Labour would have won
:59:38. > :59:43.in Suffolk. So the system made a difference. But the striking thing
:59:43. > :59:48.about this is the terrible turnout. Frankly, the government promoted
:59:48. > :59:51.this, I think it is a good idea, but they did not sell it and they
:59:51. > :59:53.should have done. The public had no desire for this
:59:53. > :00:01.post, demonstrated by the turnout and the thousands of defaced ballot
:00:01. > :00:05.papers, why have the Conservatives pushed this policy? The government
:00:05. > :00:09.did not promote it as well as it should have done, and there was a
:00:09. > :00:14.clear sense on the part of some people who spoiled their ballot
:00:14. > :00:19.papers that this was an overt attempt to politicise the police. I
:00:19. > :00:23.think that was not correct, but there was a big concern about that
:00:23. > :00:30.and the fact that so many Independents was elected was also
:00:30. > :00:40.because of a sense that there were some Independents people of good
:00:40. > :00:43.
:00:43. > :00:45.character with experience who deserved a chance.
:00:45. > :00:48.An in-depth investigation into the dire voter turnout is being
:00:48. > :00:51.launched by the Electoral Commission, isn't this a blot on
:00:51. > :00:55.the government which you are part of? It is disappointing we did not
:00:55. > :00:59.see a higher turnout. It was introduced as part of the coalition
:00:59. > :01:05.agreement and it is only right that the Liberal Democrats support that,
:01:05. > :01:08.but we were not very enthusiastic about this proposal. But we do
:01:08. > :01:12.support greater accountability and transparency in the police, but
:01:12. > :01:15.this system does not appear to have caught the imagination of the
:01:15. > :01:17.public. You must have believed in the role,
:01:17. > :01:23.isn't it a good thing to have democratically elected
:01:23. > :01:27.commissioners? I did not support a role, I supported the importance of
:01:27. > :01:32.police and crime reduction and I have always said it was the issues
:01:32. > :01:36.I was standing for and I opposed the creation of the role because of
:01:36. > :01:41.the politicisation. The Elf -- the overwhelming majority of the
:01:41. > :01:47.country have rejected a flagship government policy it in a way that
:01:47. > :01:51.is dangerous for democracy because people are actively excluding
:01:51. > :01:55.themselves from the democratic process. Everybody has to listen,
:01:55. > :01:59.the government, the media, and the public need to look at how we
:02:00. > :02:09.tackle this to make sure this does not happen again. This is bad news
:02:09. > :02:14.for the country. Do you think it will improve policing? Home Office
:02:14. > :02:19.did a survey asking about the existing arrangements for political
:02:19. > :02:23.control and nobody had heard about the police authorities. That is
:02:23. > :02:29.unlikely to happen in this case. Some of these people will become
:02:29. > :02:34.prominent and so it will be good. think there is a good chance it
:02:34. > :02:40.will, it will take some time to gain public confidence, but there
:02:40. > :02:44.is a chance it will succeed. It has the potential to, but the new PCCs
:02:44. > :02:48.have to prove themselves and if they do, they will see a higher
:02:48. > :02:57.turnout. Asked the right questions, came up with the wrong answers,
:02:57. > :03:07.they need to review it. In time, we will see what the
:03:07. > :03:08.
:03:08. > :03:10.outcome will be. And we've just got time to see what has come to light
:03:10. > :03:12.this week, in Deborah McGurran's political roundup, all in 60
:03:12. > :03:17.seconds. This MP voted against Labour's
:03:18. > :03:22.calls to cut fuel duty. I would not support them if I was not confident
:03:22. > :03:27.the government were going to listen. The Tories' campaign manager was
:03:27. > :03:32.forced to apologise for appearing to encourage a rival candidate in
:03:32. > :03:37.the Corby by-election. He has been guilty of Scilly back in. This man
:03:37. > :03:40.will not be charged for his spending while he ran Essex county
:03:40. > :03:47.council after it was revealed he but more than a quarter of a
:03:47. > :03:53.million pounds on his credit card. I went to London mostly by train.
:03:53. > :03:58.Were well opening Peterborough's new station, the Transport Minister
:03:58. > :04:03.let this slept. It has improved in at the time since I came, because
:04:03. > :04:11.the entrance was very dark. And in the jungle, Nadine diaries revealed
:04:11. > :04:13.her metal. -- Dorries. That's all we've got time for.