:01:24. > :01:34.Here Makan Eastman, moves to end the misery of pagan Lions. - Mac
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :39:57.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2303 seconds
:39:57. > :40:03.Welcome to Sunday Politics East. Later in the programme, a rise in
:40:03. > :40:09.the number of people in this region being driven into payday loans.
:40:09. > :40:14.not go anywhere near them, ever. They are very, very dangerous
:40:14. > :40:19.spiral to get involved in. A new relationship with Europe - the
:40:19. > :40:24.manifesto for change led by MPs in this region. There is a general
:40:24. > :40:28.sense that the party backs the idea of reform and renegotiation and not
:40:28. > :40:32.leaving and in that regard we are Riyaz one we do not -- with the
:40:32. > :40:34.Prime Minister. First let's meet our guests, Labour's Kelvin Hopkins,
:40:34. > :40:36.MP for Luton North, and Vicky Ford, Conservative MEP and rapporteur for
:40:36. > :40:40.offshore oil and gas safety and the fiscal framework directive
:40:40. > :40:43.overseeing the accountability of public spending. I want to start
:40:43. > :40:47.with a quick word about the incinerator row. This week King's
:40:47. > :40:51.Lynn MP Henry Bellingham, supported by other Norfolk MPs, has
:40:51. > :40:57.criticised Norfolk County Council for the way it approved plans for a
:40:57. > :41:02.waste incinerator in the town. is wrong for any council to ride
:41:02. > :41:06.roughshod over local people when local people have made their --
:41:06. > :41:11.their views crystal clear. Democracy is ill-served when we
:41:11. > :41:17.have a consultation and then we ignore its findings. Vicky Ford,
:41:17. > :41:25.protesters say that 93 % of protesters -- of people voted
:41:25. > :41:28.against the scheme. This is a test of localism, isn't it? Yes, what is
:41:28. > :41:34.the point of asking local people their views if you then don't
:41:34. > :41:39.listen. As an MEP I try to stay well away from local issues because
:41:39. > :41:43.it is the last thing we want, for me to get involved in local
:41:43. > :41:48.planning issues, but I think the developers have these sort of
:41:48. > :41:51.incinerators have done a really bad job in the UK at winning public
:41:51. > :41:56.opinion. The public are not happy with these, they think there is a
:41:56. > :42:00.lot of risk, and that is an issue across the UK, that people are
:42:00. > :42:04.concerned about that. In Sweden they build them with viewing
:42:05. > :42:10.galleries because people like them. Simon Wright, let's talk about the
:42:10. > :42:14.localism issue. Are you are a fan of localism or do you think it
:42:14. > :42:19.raises people's hopes about delivery? Localism is that the
:42:19. > :42:23.heart of what Liberal-Democrats are tied with -- trying to achieve. To
:42:23. > :42:27.have a council ride roughshod over local opinion, I agree, the way
:42:27. > :42:32.they have gone about this is completely wrong. I was one of the
:42:32. > :42:37.number of MPs who wrote to Eric Pickles, asking him to call in the
:42:37. > :42:41.process. I am pleased he has done that. More from both are due in a
:42:41. > :42:45.moment. Times are tight for everybody but some people find
:42:45. > :42:50.themselves so desperate for cash that they end up taking out short-
:42:50. > :42:53.term loans with extremely high interest rates. So-called payday
:42:53. > :42:58.loans. There was growing concern about the effect they are having,
:42:58. > :43:04.particularly because the number of people resorting to them has soared,
:43:04. > :43:08.by 43 % last year, according to debt charity. Here in the East
:43:08. > :43:12.unsecured debt is almost 5 % higher than the national average. Last
:43:12. > :43:18.month the government pledged to Thai teak regulation, in a year's
:43:18. > :43:27.time, but alternatives like credit unions are under growing pressure.
:43:27. > :43:32.-- Titan Reg elect -- regulations. -- to tighten regulation. Laurie
:43:32. > :43:37.Smith suffered after getting into a spiral of debt. It was ridiculously
:43:37. > :43:41.easy for me to get those loans out, bearing in mind my credit history.
:43:41. > :43:47.They can't have looked very thoroughly into my history. What
:43:47. > :43:55.was bankrupt. It was a problem with her car that prompted her to borrow
:43:55. > :44:00.�300 the started her cycle of debt. -- that started. I could not see a
:44:00. > :44:05.way out, I had to earn more money or not spend as much, but I did not
:44:05. > :44:10.have as much as I did before so that was hard. Concern over payday
:44:10. > :44:19.loans has risen to such a level that the government, pushed into a
:44:19. > :44:29.U-turn by the Lords, has given the plant authority the ability to
:44:29. > :44:29.
:44:29. > :44:36.limit loans. Two -- too little too late for Linda. Not her real name.
:44:36. > :44:44.Having lived with payday loans fur a good seven or eight years now, it
:44:44. > :44:49.is just as well I am tough. -- for a good. The complete mental trauma,
:44:49. > :44:55.you can't think of anything else. She was rescued by the local credit
:44:55. > :44:59.union, who sorted out her finances. Certainly in the last year, 18
:44:59. > :45:06.months, huge numbers of people coming with pay-day lanes, not just
:45:06. > :45:10.one, several. -- payday loans. Even people who are not working, they
:45:10. > :45:14.seem to be able to get the loans. While more and more payday loan
:45:14. > :45:19.companies joined the market, many credit unions are struggling for
:45:19. > :45:23.funds. Before Christmas we did not know whether we would have enough
:45:24. > :45:29.money to lend to our members, let alone anybody who came in looking
:45:29. > :45:32.for more emergency money. Credit unions need premises and money for
:45:32. > :45:39.volunteers, something Cambridge City Council have this week decided
:45:39. > :45:44.to fund, as well as money for riskier loans. They will have much
:45:44. > :45:49.more sensible lakes of interest and they do not lock people into
:45:49. > :45:53.punitive cycles. Another benefit is that the credit unions insist on a
:45:53. > :45:58.saving element, which encourages responsible money management and
:45:58. > :46:02.hopefully makes people less likely to get into these problems in the
:46:02. > :46:06.future. It is when you are at your most vulnerable that they have got
:46:06. > :46:10.you. Desperation will make you do things you would not normally
:46:10. > :46:13.rationally do. People who use payday loans deserve more
:46:13. > :46:18.protection, according to a report by the Office of Fair Trading, but
:46:18. > :46:21.until recently the government has resisted taking action. I think
:46:21. > :46:26.there are three things the government should do, one is to
:46:26. > :46:28.deal with the obscene level of low pay in our economy, and they do
:46:28. > :46:33.shoes at -- they should do something about capping interest
:46:33. > :46:39.rates, which they do across much of Europe, even in the United States.
:46:39. > :46:43.The government should do that now and not wait until 2014. The third
:46:43. > :46:48.thing is they should open access to alternative forms of capital.
:46:48. > :46:52.Without action, 2013 could be a year of opportunity for companies
:46:52. > :46:57.like these. Earlier this week Debra Matt Goss
:46:57. > :47:03.will come -- Russell Hammond from the consumer finance Association,
:47:03. > :47:05.which represents about -- around 70 % of the payday loan market. She
:47:05. > :47:09.asked him if people are being exploited because they are
:47:10. > :47:15.vulnerable. Most people are not vulnerable, they are financially
:47:15. > :47:21.stressed, they might be on low incomes or even at medium in comes
:47:21. > :47:31.and they are managing their budget in an uncertain economy. -- even
:47:31. > :47:31.
:47:31. > :47:34.medium in comes. Do you think there should be better regulation? When
:47:34. > :47:38.you look at the way people are using payday loans and the
:47:38. > :47:44.popularity of the product and the level of growth in response to the
:47:44. > :47:49.fact that that is what consumers want and we are providing, if you
:47:49. > :47:54.take that into context and you make sure that you have good standards
:47:54. > :48:00.of round it and there are industry standards as well as the statutory
:48:00. > :48:06.regulations that exist, and the major players are come -- complying
:48:06. > :48:10.with those, then you have a strong and competitive market. I do accept
:48:10. > :48:14.that some areas need improvement. When any -- when an industry is
:48:14. > :48:19.young and growing quickly it is inevitable that you will have some
:48:19. > :48:26.teething problems. As a body we are addressing those. Vicky Ford, this
:48:26. > :48:30.is more than just teething problems, isn't it? Absolutely. I am very
:48:30. > :48:37.pleased that there is going to be better regulation of this industry.
:48:37. > :48:42.I went to see the food bank in Haverhill in autumn and they give
:48:42. > :48:48.debt advice. They told me there are 400 different ways that people on
:48:48. > :48:53.lower income has can access this sort of credit, 400 different
:48:53. > :48:57.moneylenders in one town. Isn't the point that if people were paid a
:48:57. > :49:01.decent wage on minimum grade -- minimum wage they would not have to
:49:01. > :49:06.resort to these high-interest loans? I am not sure that is just
:49:06. > :49:11.be issued. Sometimes people are borrowing to mend their cars. It is
:49:11. > :49:17.a bit like credit cards, everybody offering more and more credit and
:49:17. > :49:21.lowering the credit, taking credit from one lender and another and
:49:21. > :49:25.another, and that explodes the whole thing. In September I wrote
:49:25. > :49:30.to the Chancellor about this because part of my concern is that
:49:30. > :49:34.if it is not regulated in the UK it will get regulated in Europe. What
:49:34. > :49:38.I have seen, for example, in the mortgage market is that when you
:49:38. > :49:44.leave it up to Europe to regulate their come up with a one-size-fits-
:49:44. > :49:49.all piece of regulation that does not solve the problem. Vicky
:49:49. > :49:54.talking about Europe there. Of course the United States has banned
:49:54. > :49:58.payday loans in some states. Should we look at banning them here?
:49:58. > :50:04.certainly need to regulate them properly. 0 was concerned to hear
:50:04. > :50:08.the cases in those Riddick -- their video. -- I was concerned. They are
:50:08. > :50:13.not unique, I visited the Citizen's Advice Bureau in Norwich and they
:50:13. > :50:18.said it was a growing problem. The problem with these loans is that
:50:18. > :50:23.people take them out and sometimes they will get another one out to
:50:23. > :50:28.pay for the first one and there is a spiral and it becomes incredibly
:50:28. > :50:31.problematic for those individuals. We need to strengthen consumer
:50:31. > :50:35.protection. The financial conduct authority will have the tools it
:50:36. > :50:45.needs to do that. In the short term, because the body is not in place to
:50:46. > :50:46.
:50:46. > :50:49.do that yet... Not until 2014. There is an issue about timescales.
:50:50. > :50:57.In the meantime government has been working with the industry to bring
:50:57. > :51:03.forward a new code of practice for consumers. I have met the senior
:51:03. > :51:10.management team of wonder, and they said our business model is
:51:10. > :51:15.fantastic. In which case, if you think you are doing the right
:51:15. > :51:19.things, you should not be against proposing a set of regulations that
:51:19. > :51:26.means that other lenders who are not operating to the standards that
:51:26. > :51:30.you say are OK cannot do it. Clearly people are getting into
:51:30. > :51:34.problems from multiple lenders, when you have loan after loan, and
:51:34. > :51:40.it is not just the interest rate that is the issue. I think we need
:51:40. > :51:44.to look at it and we also need to encourage banks to be lending more.
:51:44. > :51:48.We are going to leave the subject there because I want to move onto
:51:48. > :51:51.the big one of Europe, which have caused has dominated discussion in
:51:51. > :51:56.Westminster this week. Even by the Prime Minister's long awaited
:51:56. > :52:01.speech on Britain's future role in the UK has been postponed, that has
:52:01. > :52:05.not hampered MPs from our region from having their say, with many
:52:05. > :52:10.taking a leading role in the debate. Europe plays a large part in the
:52:10. > :52:15.life of this region. 64 % of our trade is with the EU, far higher
:52:15. > :52:21.than the national average. Millions of pounds of European funding has
:52:21. > :52:25.gone into improving towns like Great Yarmouth and the transport
:52:25. > :52:30.upgrade in Cambridgeshire. The region has also been affected by
:52:30. > :52:34.immigration of course, with many workers taking up farm work in the
:52:34. > :52:38.Fens. A growing number of Conservatives believe it is time
:52:38. > :52:45.for a rethink. This week the fresh Start group called for repatriation
:52:45. > :52:47.of powers from Europe, including taking control of social
:52:47. > :52:52.legislation and restricting the right of emigrants to claim
:52:52. > :52:57.benefits. It puts pressure on public services but more
:52:57. > :53:00.importantly it causes a lot of resentment if the speed of
:53:00. > :53:04.immigration is too fast. If there is a sense that people are coming
:53:04. > :53:12.here to benefit from the benefits system rather than to work. There
:53:12. > :53:17.is another issue - in my constituency employment levels are
:53:17. > :53:21.very good but in other parts of the East, where unemployment is high,
:53:21. > :53:25.there is a sense where in a great - - immigrant workers are taking jobs
:53:25. > :53:29.that British people could do. What we don't want is to see the added
:53:29. > :53:39.level of resentment that comes from people coming here to claim
:53:39. > :53:40.
:53:40. > :53:44.benefits. A paper has been launched which claims the benefits of the
:53:44. > :53:53.single market were vastly overrated and it could be more beneficial to
:53:53. > :53:58.the UK economy to pull out altogether. The MP for North Essex
:53:58. > :54:03.can tell us more about that. This region, 64 % of trade is with
:54:03. > :54:08.Europe. Do you think we would be better out? Can I correct you to
:54:08. > :54:12.start with, the paper does not says that. It simply asks the question,
:54:12. > :54:16.is the single market really worth it? We are constantly told because
:54:16. > :54:22.it is the be-all and end-all of our European membership, the overriding
:54:22. > :54:26.reason why we have to stay in. People used to argue we would have
:54:26. > :54:31.to join the single currency in order to preserve the single market.
:54:31. > :54:37.We are asking, what is the balance of advantage? Overall for the
:54:37. > :54:43.United Kingdom economy, though we do export quite a substantial
:54:43. > :54:48.amount of our goods to the European Union, we actually export more
:54:48. > :54:55.outside of Europe as a whole. Even if we did leave the single market
:54:55. > :55:00.we would still be a trading gateway to Europe. I am interested in one
:55:00. > :55:04.of the other claims, that the UK economy would create more jobs if
:55:04. > :55:12.it didn't face the costs and burdens of the EU. Could you give
:55:12. > :55:19.me an example? If you look at it this way, if you look at the total
:55:19. > :55:26.of the UK economy, the UK economy exports probably less than 8.7 % of
:55:26. > :55:34.GDP to the European Union. We only export, we don't export all but to
:55:34. > :55:39.do the year, most of it is domestic and to non-EU countries. We have to
:55:39. > :55:44.accept even rigged election on 100 % of our economy for that 8.7 %,
:55:44. > :55:49.making it more expensive for us to export to China. This week, there
:55:49. > :55:53.was cutting jobs because they can't export to Europe because Europe is
:55:53. > :55:57.in decline. Exports to the rest of the world are growing but we bear
:55:57. > :56:03.the costs of EU regulation and a contribution to the EU budget in
:56:03. > :56:10.order to be a member of the Union. What do you make of the fresh Start
:56:10. > :56:14.approach? There are a lot of approach is going around, fresh
:56:14. > :56:20.start is one of them. If you ask the simple question, should Britain
:56:20. > :56:25.have the right to make its own laws, that is what democracy is about. At
:56:25. > :56:29.the moment more and more laws are being made by the European Union in
:56:29. > :56:34.the name of the single market when all we wanted was the trade. A new
:56:34. > :56:39.relationship, and this is where I agree with David Cameron, is where
:56:39. > :56:43.-- is what we need, our relationship based on trade and
:56:43. > :56:46.political corporation, not laws being made by institutions which
:56:46. > :56:56.increasingly will govern a federal state that we don't want to be Pat
:56:56. > :56:56.
:56:56. > :57:03.-- be part of. -- co-operation are the Liberal Democrats a lone voice
:57:03. > :57:09.in this region in favour of the EU? It is a fantasy to imagine we can
:57:10. > :57:14.Ula -- unilaterally renegotiate the terms of the EU. At there is no way
:57:14. > :57:19.to base that as a starting point. We need to focus on leading in
:57:19. > :57:24.Europe building -- and building allies with other nation-states to
:57:24. > :57:29.reform the way the EU works. We know that we can make the free
:57:29. > :57:35.market work more effectively, we know we do -- we need to do more to
:57:35. > :57:40.cut red tape and to introduce political reforms such as the Crazy
:57:40. > :57:50.to-ing and fro-ing between Brussels and Strasbourg, but we can only do
:57:50. > :57:57.this by building relationships within the union. We have had the
:57:57. > :58:01.fresh Start approach, where do you stand on everything? As somebody
:58:01. > :58:05.who has been campaigning for reform and a referendum for five years, I
:58:05. > :58:11.can wait a week or two before the Prime Minister's speech, but I
:58:11. > :58:19.think he is going to give us that. I think be in or out debate is
:58:19. > :58:23.simplistic. The status quo does not exist any more. We are not part of
:58:23. > :58:28.the eurozone or the monetary union, we can't be in the fisting or
:58:28. > :58:33.banking union, so that rules they are making for the eurozone, you
:58:33. > :58:42.can't cut and paste that on to the 10 countries outside the eurozone.
:58:42. > :58:46.The status quo is changing already. Be out debate is a concern for a
:58:46. > :58:49.lot of our business because they don't want to end up with laws in
:58:49. > :58:57.Brussels which affect British businesses but without them being
:58:57. > :59:01.able to have an negotiation on those rules. Fresh start has
:59:01. > :59:06.started to look at the detail of these negotiations and I am really
:59:06. > :59:13.pleased with that, that we have started to say not the simplistic
:59:13. > :59:18.in or out suggestion... Why d'you think we have so many Euro-sceptics
:59:19. > :59:24.in this region? I think we have a lot of big issues. Take the
:59:24. > :59:29.immigration discussion mentioned before. Migration but work is one
:59:29. > :59:33.thing, migration for health care or welfare is a different issue. It is
:59:33. > :59:38.not just the UK but has an issue with that. In the fresh Start
:59:38. > :59:45.document they name 12 other countries in Europe who have named
:59:45. > :59:50.this as an issue. Last week a German MPs agreed on that issue.
:59:50. > :59:54.Simon Wright, Nick Clegg has said that a referendum would cause five
:59:54. > :59:59.years of uncertainty, damaging the country. This is going to cause
:59:59. > :00:04.another rift in the coalition, isn't it? There are about 3.5
:00:04. > :00:09.million jobs in the UK and at a time when we know the economy is
:00:09. > :00:14.fragile why do we want to undermine confidence in investment within the
:00:14. > :00:24.UK? I want to squeeze in the political round-up of the week.
:00:24. > :00:27.
:00:27. > :00:31.Here it comes. Winter white out across the East as
:00:31. > :00:35.sub-zero blizzard conditions brought chaos for travellers.
:00:35. > :00:41.Police were putting in extra hours but it was the scrapping of
:00:41. > :00:46.military police at Colchester that worried the town's MP. I urge the
:00:46. > :00:50.minister at least to reinstate some of the police. Runway clearance was
:00:50. > :00:56.under way at Stansted but in Southend it looks like council cuts
:00:56. > :00:59.have grounded the summer air show. While all councils faced tight
:01:00. > :01:04.budgets, the Corby MP thinks that switching off street lighting is a
:01:04. > :01:10.step too far. It means people are frightened to go out at night,
:01:10. > :01:15.increasing crime. Dangerous driving at whatever time of day was the
:01:15. > :01:20.focus for Jamie Bulger's parents, who joined their MP to lobby the
:01:20. > :01:27.government on sensing. Only one or three of these drivers goes to jail,
:01:27. > :01:32.and only one in 10 for more than five years.
:01:32. > :01:36.Let's pick up on the issue of street lights. Simon Wright, switch
:01:36. > :01:40.them off for keep them on? Keep them on. At this time of year
:01:40. > :01:47.particularly be brisker accidents on icy pavements and roads across
:01:47. > :01:53.no doubt Northamptonshire and also Norfolk, of course that will make
:01:53. > :01:59.things more dangerously. -- at the risk of accidents. It would save
:01:59. > :02:04.money, wouldn't it? Yes, but I was at Tilbury power station and unless
:02:04. > :02:14.we renegotiate our energy laws would be you a lot more lights will
:02:14. > :02:19.
:02:19. > :02:25.be going off. -- with the EU. you are stargazer, Simon Wright?
:02:25. > :02:32.have been quite interested in the BBC programme, Star-gazing, but no,
:02:32. > :02:39.I am not one myself. Thank you both very much indeed. That is all we