:01:25. > :01:29.Here in the East: The region's Eurosceptic MPs lead
:01:29. > :01:31.the charge for an in-out referendum. And armed police take to the
:01:31. > :01:41.streets of Luton, providing the local police commissioner with his
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :37:31.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2149 seconds
:37:31. > :37:36.Hello, and welcome to the Sunday Politics here in the East. I'm
:37:36. > :37:41.Amelia Reynolds. On the menu today: A large helping of Brussels. And
:37:41. > :37:44.it's a subject giving many of the region's Tory MPs indigestion. 21
:37:44. > :37:47.of them led the way last Wednesday, voting against the Government on
:37:47. > :37:52.the Euro amendment. That's almost half of our Conservative
:37:52. > :37:55.backbenchers critical of David Cameron's Queen speech. Arch
:37:55. > :37:58.Eurosceptic Peter Bone is on our panel.
:37:58. > :38:01.Plus, the new system of police commissioners is facing its biggest
:38:01. > :38:06.operational test in Bedfordshire. Armed police are patrolling the
:38:06. > :38:10.streets in Luton after a surge in gun crime. We ask the Police
:38:10. > :38:13.Commissioner if he can deal with the crisis.
:38:13. > :38:16.But first let's meet our guests. As I said, we have Peter Bone, the
:38:17. > :38:20.Conservative MP for Wellingborough. He joins us from his home in
:38:20. > :38:22.Rushden. And it's a first appearance on the
:38:22. > :38:28.programme for Clive Lewis, Labour's prospective candidate in Norwich
:38:28. > :38:31.South. Clive is no stranger to our studios. He works for the BBC here
:38:31. > :38:37.in the East. But, has been working in a non-editorial capacity since
:38:37. > :38:40.he became a candidate. So let's start with Europe, and a
:38:40. > :38:44.question: Could some Tory MPs in marginal seats stand on a joint
:38:44. > :38:52.ticket with UKIP at the next election? It's something the Mid
:38:52. > :38:59.Bedfordshire MP Nadine Dorries has been talking about.
:38:59. > :39:02.Birth mac is that a divided right, which is what we have now, only
:39:02. > :39:05.allows the left to come through the middle. The Right has not been
:39:05. > :39:11.divided in this way since the second world war and we have to
:39:11. > :39:15.look at imaginative ways of healing the rift on the right of the
:39:16. > :39:21.political arena and find a way to unite them and show the people out
:39:21. > :39:26.there that if you vote Conservative, you are going to get that socially
:39:26. > :39:32.conservative type MP that you want. It is interesting, have you been
:39:32. > :39:35.considering the same move? Well, I think what Nadine was saying and
:39:35. > :39:41.other Conservative MPs are saying is that we have to somehow
:39:41. > :39:45.harnessed the enormous power of the right and we saw that in the local
:39:45. > :39:50.elections. Nearly 50% of people either voted Conservative or UKIP
:39:50. > :39:55.and if we could somehow unite that we would be returned to government
:39:55. > :40:01.with a large majority and one of the ways... Are you interested in
:40:01. > :40:05.joining the UKIP yourself? No, I have not and neither have my
:40:05. > :40:11.association. You can be selected as a Conservative candidate and then
:40:11. > :40:15.endorsed by UKIP, rather like we were a endorsed by the Unionists
:40:15. > :40:18.and a Labour candidates are endorsed by the co-operative
:40:18. > :40:22.candidates. Liberal Democrats are of course the two parties, the
:40:22. > :40:29.Liberals and the Social Democrats. It is nothing new and one of the
:40:29. > :40:35.ways we could unite the right. OK, nothing in you. Labour has had
:40:35. > :40:40.people standing on a joint platform. The Labour and the co-operative R
:40:40. > :40:44.joint sister parties. It is completely different. What we are
:40:44. > :40:49.seeing here, as happy as I am to see the Tories tear themselves
:40:49. > :40:53.apart on this matter, Nadine Dorries is box office. You wonder
:40:53. > :40:58.what she will do next and what she will say. The reality is that why
:40:58. > :41:02.they are fighting with each other everyone wakes up thinking about
:41:02. > :41:07.dhurries -- Nadine Dorries and David Cameron should be thinking
:41:07. > :41:13.about the economy. David Cameron has served no pacts and no deals,
:41:13. > :41:16.or would you defy him? Of course not. I absolutely support David
:41:17. > :41:22.Cameron. The Conservative Party is more united on Europe than we have
:41:22. > :41:26.ever been. The vote last week, there was no Tory rebellion of
:41:26. > :41:31.there. We all supported the amendment or abstained. It was the
:41:31. > :41:37.Labour Party that was all over the place. We are very United. We are
:41:37. > :41:39.staying with Europe. 21 of the region's Tory MPs defied David
:41:39. > :41:42.Cameron on Wednesday, reflecting their deep seated dissatisfaction
:41:42. > :41:45.with the coalition. Now attempts will be made to steer a referendum
:41:45. > :41:51.bill onto the statute book, so we could have that in-out vote within
:41:51. > :41:54.four years. Now, we've heard a lot this week about why we should leave
:41:54. > :41:57.the EU, and in coming weeks we will be looking at those arguments,but
:41:57. > :42:03.there is also a strong case, particularly in this region, for
:42:03. > :42:09.staying in. This week Andrew Sinclair has been looking at some
:42:09. > :42:13.of those who are keen on the European dream. For many people,
:42:13. > :42:21.Europe is more than a political argument, it is part of their
:42:21. > :42:25.everyday life. This company in Stowmarket processes 300,000 tonnes
:42:25. > :42:31.of malt every year for the brewing and food industry. One third of its
:42:31. > :42:37.trade is with Europe. Here, staying in the EU makes total sense. At the
:42:37. > :42:40.moment we stand together with Europe and Britain going alone
:42:40. > :42:45.would be too small on the international scene. Contracts are
:42:45. > :42:49.made globally these days. If Britain was alone it would need a
:42:49. > :42:53.lot of financial support. The legislation has protected trade
:42:53. > :42:58.within Europe. A survey by the local chambers of commerce recently
:42:58. > :43:04.found that 95% of firms believe withdrawing from the you would be a
:43:04. > :43:08.step backwards for the region's economy. 55% of the East of
:43:08. > :43:12.England's trade is with the EU and it is responsible for one in 10
:43:12. > :43:16.jobs here in the UK. They have a 5 million potential customers
:43:16. > :43:19.throughout Europe and the fact they have no administrative or tariff
:43:19. > :43:27.restrictions means they can do business as easily with Berlin as
:43:27. > :43:31.with Leeds. The eastern region has received more than �400 million in
:43:31. > :43:35.grants from the EU in the last seven years. Companies find it easy
:43:35. > :43:40.to invest here. The biggest investors bring money into how
:43:41. > :43:46.power businesses and help create jobs in the east of Europe, those
:43:46. > :43:51.are Germany and France. We are playing with fire if we put that at
:43:51. > :43:56.risk. David Cameron famously told his party to stop banging on about
:43:56. > :44:01.Europe. His reasoning was that most people do not really care about it.
:44:01. > :44:06.A recent survey by Lord Ashcroft found that 4% of people regard our
:44:06. > :44:11.future relations with EU as a future -- major issue. If one
:44:11. > :44:13.country goes down then everyone suffers. At this school in
:44:13. > :44:17.Cambridgeshire the sixth-form politics class is getting in some
:44:17. > :44:22.last-minute revision. Everyone around this table has travelled to
:44:22. > :44:26.Europe. Some are thinking about studying or working there. If there
:44:26. > :44:29.were a vote today most would choose to stay in the year. So much goes
:44:29. > :44:32.on in our lives that we do not notice that is done by the EU
:44:32. > :44:36.Commission rather than our government but we have grown up
:44:36. > :44:40.with it so there is no problem with it. As soon as we left we would see
:44:40. > :44:45.so many bad things like so many of our rights could be withdrawn or we
:44:45. > :44:50.would not get the benefits that we do see being part of the EU.
:44:50. > :44:56.think the benefits at the moment outweigh the negatives. In fact the
:44:56. > :45:00.Fabian Society recently found that 54% of 18 to 24-year-old woodwork -
:45:00. > :45:07.- would vote to stay in the EU, just 31% would want to leave. There
:45:07. > :45:15.is a strong argument for saying at the heart of Europe but they are
:45:15. > :45:21.going to have to make a better case if they are to win a referendum.
:45:21. > :45:27.What are your main reasons for wanting us out of the you? First of
:45:27. > :45:31.all, can I correct your introduction. When you said most
:45:31. > :45:37.Conservative MPs defied David Cameron, absolutely not, we are
:45:37. > :45:41.putting forward David Cameron's policy. That little piece you ran
:45:41. > :45:46.there was considerably unbalanced, in my view, towards an argument
:45:46. > :45:51.that only the BBC can make. We are asking you now, let us not waste
:45:51. > :45:57.any time, what I your views on why you want to come out of the EU. Let
:45:57. > :46:03.us know. If we just keep to the economic arguments, it is quite
:46:03. > :46:08.clear that we lose millions of jobs by being in the year. We have a
:46:08. > :46:12.trade deficit with the EU of �30 billion a year, in other words more
:46:12. > :46:15.imports into our country than we export which means more jobs in
:46:15. > :46:20.Europe than in our country from being in the EU, where as the rest
:46:20. > :46:25.of the world, we are in surplus. When you are free to trade with the
:46:25. > :46:30.rest of the world we do rather well. The basic idea that somehow being
:46:30. > :46:35.in the EU economic creates jobs, I am afraid that is complete rubbish.
:46:36. > :46:38.We had in that package that 195% of firms believe that withdrawing from
:46:38. > :46:43.the EU would be bad for the region's economy.
:46:43. > :46:47.How come they are all round and you are right? Well, what I think you
:46:47. > :46:50.have to say is what was the question that was put? Nobody is
:46:50. > :46:54.seriously suggesting that we wouldn't trade with the EU and a
:46:54. > :46:58.thing that was the issue that those businesses were referring to. What
:46:58. > :47:01.would happen is there would be a free-trade area, rather like I
:47:01. > :47:07.guess Norway and Switzerland to were doing rather well by not being
:47:07. > :47:09.in the EU but having a free trade. -- area. We would be able to trade
:47:09. > :47:13.with the the rest of the world without all of these regulations
:47:13. > :47:17.imposed on business. If you ask business people will the real
:47:17. > :47:23.problem is with their business they will say over-regulation and most
:47:23. > :47:28.of those regulations come from the European Union. 95% of the British
:47:28. > :47:31.companies do not have -- export at told the European Union and yet
:47:31. > :47:35.they are affected by those regulations. Get rid of those
:47:35. > :47:43.regulations and more people will be employed. Let us look at the latest
:47:44. > :47:52.polling data on the E year. 46% are in favour of restoring while 30%
:47:52. > :47:56.say they would vote to stay in. Labour are in the minority, if you
:47:56. > :48:01.had a referendum you do not want one because you would lose a.
:48:01. > :48:03.week the polls were showing it was virtually a second next so they
:48:03. > :48:08.changed. The point that Peter is making about Europe is that if we
:48:08. > :48:14.were to lead Europe everything would fall apart. As far as I am
:48:14. > :48:17.concerned that is not true. Just look at the eastern region. �5
:48:17. > :48:23.billion worth of exports go to France and Germany alone here.
:48:23. > :48:28.Trade with France and Germany every year. That is much more than we
:48:28. > :48:35.contribute. Leaving the EU would be a catastrophe for this country.
:48:35. > :48:40.shouldn't people have the choice? We have said quite clearly that we
:48:40. > :48:43.do not want a referendum. Our focus must be on the economy. I put the
:48:43. > :48:48.0.2 Peter and he has said before that Labour are running scared
:48:48. > :48:52.about Europe that we are the only party that has ever given the
:48:52. > :48:57.British people a referendum on Europe so we are not taking lessons
:48:57. > :49:03.from the Conservatives when it comes to referendums and democracy.
:49:03. > :49:09.The reality is that our focus needs to be on the economy. You have
:49:09. > :49:13.heard what Clive Lewis has said and Vince Cable has also criticised a
:49:13. > :49:16.referendum for causing uncertainty among for business community and so
:49:16. > :49:21.has no serious friend of the business community would consider
:49:21. > :49:24.severing links with Brussels. You are damaging business and the
:49:24. > :49:30.economy. I think that Vince Cable is gearing up his leadership
:49:30. > :49:34.campaign to replace Nick Clegg. You know, I think he is probably being
:49:34. > :49:38.a disaster as a Business Secretary. The sooner he leaves the Government
:49:38. > :49:44.and runs for lead but -- leader of the Liberal Democrats is better
:49:44. > :49:48.that -- better for everyone. Seaside towns, farming, transport
:49:48. > :49:52.infrastructure has had a lot of money from Europe, but we are not
:49:52. > :49:56.getting that there's much, are we? I think we have been talking a lot
:49:56. > :50:00.about money here, and that is extremely important but something
:50:00. > :50:04.else, and this is where me and Peter were completely and --
:50:04. > :50:09.disagree, it is the idea of Europe. You think of European history,
:50:09. > :50:13.centuries of bloodshed and warfare, it has come together in the last 40
:50:13. > :50:17.or 50 years, the idea of people working together to improve the
:50:17. > :50:22.environment and economy and people's rights at work, I call it
:50:22. > :50:26.right at work, he called it red tape, that is the idea of Europe
:50:26. > :50:30.and the kind of leadership Europe should be offering to the world.
:50:30. > :50:34.You Lukacs Syria and Africa and this shows that people can come
:50:34. > :50:39.together and work together for the common good and it is a fantastic
:50:39. > :50:43.piece of leadership we can show the rest of the world. Peter Bone, when
:50:44. > :50:48.the European campaign takes off and the business community is behind it,
:50:48. > :50:51.you will have a real fight on your hands. Of course the bills this --
:50:51. > :50:57.of course the business community will not be behind it, it is
:50:57. > :51:01.rubbish that we are getting money from the EU, we pay �19 billion of
:51:01. > :51:06.money into the EU and a kindly give us some back. They cost a fortune,
:51:06. > :51:10.it costs jobs. Economically it is a nonsense to continue in the year in
:51:10. > :51:14.the present situation. What we need to do is go back to what everybody
:51:14. > :51:20.thought they were voting for, a common market, a free trade area,
:51:20. > :51:30.which will be great for Europe and great for Britain. We will lose --
:51:30. > :51:34.
:51:34. > :51:38.we will leave Europe now and moved on to law and order. In particular
:51:38. > :51:40.the worrying surge in violence in Luton. This week a local man was
:51:40. > :51:43.jailed for life for the murder of 19-year-old Delaney Brown last
:51:43. > :51:46.September. The incident has been followed by a spate of violent
:51:46. > :51:49.attacks, some involving guns. It's prompted the police to deploy
:51:49. > :51:52.armed officers on the streets. And we've been speaking to people in
:51:52. > :51:55.the Marsh Farm area, where much of the violence has taken place. At
:51:55. > :51:58.the church's weekly community cafe people were ready and willing to
:51:58. > :52:00.talk about how it's affected the area. It seems to be coming from
:52:00. > :52:04.the authorities all over the place that Marsh Farm is Dodge City in
:52:04. > :52:10.Bedfordshire. Where are all these guns coming from? That actually, in
:52:10. > :52:15.the town, and I have been for a long time, they are being passed
:52:15. > :52:18.around for money. What the police have done is they have put images
:52:18. > :52:23.in the local media of people walking around with machine guns
:52:24. > :52:28.that gives the impression that most Jan people in our town I'm fired --
:52:28. > :52:34.of violence and their his gang war going on. There is a tiny minority
:52:34. > :52:37.of young people that have an issue, it is a tiny minority. The
:52:37. > :52:40.overwhelming majority are positive and doing good things. It is only
:52:40. > :52:44.in the last few weeks that the Troubles have hit the headlines
:52:44. > :52:48.again and we have seen increased police activity. I have done a lot
:52:48. > :52:52.of work with Bedfordshire police in the past but not the new crime
:52:52. > :52:55.commissioner. I think there is a leadership role. I have never met
:52:55. > :53:02.him. I would challenge him to come and see our group and see what we
:53:02. > :53:06.are doing. Please come and see what we are doing on the streets.
:53:06. > :53:10.would say to him that you probably need to up the public perception of
:53:10. > :53:14.what is happening, because it does not come out on the streets as
:53:14. > :53:20.though it is happening that way. anything more goes wrong, his
:53:20. > :53:22.standing and his position is reducing all the time.
:53:22. > :53:25.Well, earlier this week Etholle George spoke to the Police and
:53:25. > :53:28.Crime Commissioner for Bedfordshire, Olly Martins. She began by asking
:53:28. > :53:34.him how he would respond to the comment that Marsh Farm is
:53:34. > :53:37.perceived to be just like Dodge City.
:53:37. > :53:41.What I hear from people is that there is quite strong support for
:53:41. > :53:46.the response that the police have now put in there. The most
:53:46. > :53:50.important thing is that this does not become the norm. The extended
:53:50. > :53:56.use of stop-and-search powers, the armed police walking around the
:53:56. > :53:58.estate, must not become the norm. As I say, at the moment, people are
:53:59. > :54:02.saying it is an appropriate response to the situation we have
:54:02. > :54:06.seen in the last few weeks. Where are the guns coming from and where
:54:06. > :54:12.can you not get rid of them? As you heard in the report we are talking
:54:12. > :54:16.about a very small number, a very small criminal element in the west
:54:16. > :54:21.of Luton, of perhaps 20 or 30 people. We have to keep things in
:54:21. > :54:26.perspective. This is a big test for your role. People are expecting you
:54:26. > :54:30.to do something. Yes, that is why I thought it was important to go out
:54:30. > :54:34.with a local member of parliament and the local council to listen to
:54:34. > :54:39.people and hear what they have to say about the situation. With due
:54:39. > :54:43.respect, you have had six months to let that visit and yet it has taken
:54:43. > :54:47.six months to do so. Well, I am the Police And Crime Commissioner for
:54:47. > :54:52.the whole of Bedfordshire. I have had quite a lot of other things to
:54:52. > :54:56.do in the last six months, including appointing a new chief
:54:56. > :55:00.constable and I do live in the town of Luton so I have a fairly good
:55:00. > :55:04.understanding of the challenges that we face here. With due respect,
:55:04. > :55:10.his and guns and gun crime on the streets of Luton higher up your
:55:10. > :55:15.agenda? Well, it is, and what we need to see is that these things
:55:15. > :55:19.come in cycles. A few years ago we had a similar spate of incidents
:55:19. > :55:24.which ended in a large gang being broken up and sentenced to a long
:55:24. > :55:29.time in prison. What I want to try and achieve as police and crime
:55:29. > :55:33.Commission is to stop a cycle, to workout who are the young people
:55:34. > :55:37.who are at risk of becoming criminals, and interrupt that
:55:37. > :55:42.journey so that we can stop the cycle of criminality and violence
:55:42. > :55:45.that sometimes seems to afflict our town. Let us finally talk about the
:55:45. > :55:55.last six months. Other aspects of the job that looking back you feel
:55:55. > :55:55.
:55:55. > :55:59.you would have done differently? I don't think so. It is quite a
:55:59. > :56:05.challenge. I am presented with a blank sheet of paper and cities a
:56:05. > :56:09.job that no one has done before but if I wanted an easy life I would
:56:09. > :56:13.not have stood for this job. I stood for it because I wanted to
:56:13. > :56:15.make a difference and that is what I am determined to do. Thank you
:56:15. > :56:20.very much. In view of all the serious crime we
:56:20. > :56:25.have seen, has he made enough of the difference? I think he is doing
:56:25. > :56:29.the best he can under difficult circumstances. Obviously, I was a
:56:29. > :56:32.national role model and we used to go into schools and work on very
:56:32. > :56:36.similar issues, tried to intervene before young boys went into the
:56:36. > :56:40.criminal justice system. It was a scheme that was closed down in 2010,
:56:40. > :56:45.one of the first acts of the coalition government a false
:56:45. > :56:49.economy if you ask me. What Ollie Martins is facing an all Police And
:56:49. > :56:53.Crime Commissioner as are facing his massive cuts to Policing, 20%
:56:53. > :56:57.cut to Policing. I know they have to save �35 million alone in
:56:57. > :57:01.Bedfordshire and that will have an impact on community policing.
:57:01. > :57:07.Bone, do you think the new role of Police And Crime Commissioner as is
:57:07. > :57:10.effective in tackling serious and violent crime? Well, it seems to be
:57:10. > :57:16.working in Northamptonshire. Adams Simmons is a first-class
:57:16. > :57:20.commissioner and we have seen crime falling. I run a constant survey, a
:57:20. > :57:24.tracking survey in my constituency listening to Wellingborough and
:57:24. > :57:28.Rushton and crime used to be the number one issue when Labour was in
:57:28. > :57:31.power and that has now dropped to the 4th issue in the survey. It
:57:31. > :57:37.seems to be that what we are doing here is working and that is the
:57:37. > :57:40.general picture across the country. I think if we are driving crime
:57:40. > :57:45.down we must be doing something right. Crime commissioners are
:57:45. > :57:49.working there, do you agree? No, I think Ollie Martins is doing the
:57:49. > :57:52.best he can but the reality is that they are dealing with being under
:57:52. > :57:56.resource than they also feel that their priorities are quite unclear.
:57:56. > :57:59.I think we were not in favour of them and we are still not in favour
:57:59. > :58:02.of them. OK, well, before we say goodbye,
:58:02. > :58:05.Deborah McGurran has been looking at the right time to go and
:58:05. > :58:13.graceful exits in our political round-up of the week. Here it is,
:58:14. > :58:17.all in 60 seconds. The immigration minister visiting
:58:17. > :58:22.Cambridge was told that these -- visa restrictions for students who
:58:22. > :58:26.come here to study English must be relaxed. The clear message from the
:58:26. > :58:30.Government is that Britain is open for both business and sturdy for
:58:30. > :58:35.people around the world. Norfolk schools when the news for the wrong
:58:35. > :58:39.reasons as Ofsted raised concerns about 17 of them and six went into
:58:39. > :58:43.special measures. Abbesses leader claims the loss of the East of
:58:43. > :58:47.England Development Agency have made in -- life more difficult for
:58:47. > :58:52.technology start-ups in Cambridge. When it was closed down funding
:58:52. > :58:55.went and it was a policy disaster which had a big impact on the small
:58:56. > :58:59.start-up companies that were innovating around Cambridge.
:58:59. > :59:04.proposed new leader for Norfolk County Council might be considering
:59:04. > :59:10.when is the right time for a dignified exit after being rejected
:59:10. > :59:19.at a vote this week. association with the incinerator
:59:19. > :59:23.developments is something to close to many people will to support.
:59:23. > :59:28.have seen dignified exits from Alex Ferguson and David Beckham, what
:59:28. > :59:32.can politicians learn from them? Well, we do not really have that
:59:32. > :59:36.problem because we normally get fired long before away retirement
:59:36. > :59:40.date. That is the great advantage of the system, you can do them up.
:59:40. > :59:43.I guess the one person at the moment who might be thinking about
:59:43. > :59:48.a dignified exit is Nick Clegg. He has taken his party into government
:59:48. > :59:52.and driven them down in the opinion polls and probably wants to exit to
:59:52. > :59:58.Europe as a commissioner. Clive, when do you think it is time?
:59:58. > :00:03.think all politicians could learn from Sir Alex Ferguson's politics,
:00:03. > :00:08.he is a lifetime the Labour supporter. And the coalition should