:01:23. > :01:33.county councils bring sweeping weather and decisions in Europe, see
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :42:20.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2447 seconds
:42:20. > :42:23.of the programme. I'm Etholle George. This week we're down on the
:42:23. > :42:26.farm, where it's less of a rural idyll than an agricultural disaster
:42:26. > :42:29.area. More farmers than ever have been badly affected thanks to the
:42:29. > :42:35.weather this year. Particularly the dairy industry, where many are still
:42:36. > :42:41.getting less for their milk than it costs to produce. It has not been
:42:41. > :42:47.easy. For the work we have to do, there is not enough money in Ed at
:42:47. > :42:50.the moment. For the last couple of years, we have really struggled.
:42:50. > :42:53.And the fallout from the County Council elections continues, with
:42:53. > :42:56.the UK Independence Party taking a higher profile in the East than ever
:42:56. > :42:59.before. It's a rainbow coalition for Norfolk. UKIP are the main
:42:59. > :43:05.opposition, which has given the county its first Labour leader for
:43:05. > :43:08.more than a decade. We speak to him later. But first to our guests.
:43:08. > :43:14.Geoffrey Van Orden, Conservative member of the European Parliament
:43:14. > :43:17.for the East. And Richard Howitt, the East's Labour MEP. And a story
:43:17. > :43:21.this week about the exploitation of thousands of migrant workers who are
:43:21. > :43:24.desperate for somewhere to live. These are the pictures from just one
:43:24. > :43:28.town, Wisbech, where there are more than 1,000 overcrowded and
:43:28. > :43:35.unlicensed properties. Whole families with young children are
:43:35. > :43:39.sharing one room and there are cases of 20 people living in each house.
:43:39. > :43:45.Geoffrey Van Orden, a big problem across the region, so what is to be
:43:45. > :43:49.done? Of course, it is appalling what we are seeing, and we have to
:43:49. > :43:53.properly in force the law as far as these dwellings are concerned and
:43:53. > :43:58.the conditions in which people are living. It points to a wider
:43:58. > :44:02.problem, the number of migrants coming from eastern Europe and
:44:02. > :44:06.elsewhere, but in other region particularly, from eastern Europe,
:44:06. > :44:13.and concentrated in areas such as Wisbech. I was there a couple of
:44:13. > :44:22.weeks ago campaigning and I saw for myself the numbers of people from
:44:22. > :44:26.Latvia, Lithuania and Poland and other places. But... I have to say,
:44:26. > :44:32.we are doing more about this and we need greater opportunities for local
:44:32. > :44:42.people. Richard Howitt, is this is what is meant as freedom of
:44:42. > :44:43.
:44:43. > :44:48.movement? It is good you did this Ed -- did this investigation. I think
:44:48. > :44:55.people's real concern is not just numbers, and numbers game that they
:44:55. > :45:00.can never win, it is about fear for your -- you are less likely to get a
:45:00. > :45:05.job because someone else has taken it. If migrant workers are treated
:45:05. > :45:11.fairly, with proper housing and wages, they will not undercut local
:45:11. > :45:14.Labour. Thank you both very much for the moment. Now to the plight of our
:45:14. > :45:17.farmers. While politicians wrestle with reforms in Europe, farmers are
:45:17. > :45:20.doing battle against the elements. An unprecedented 90% of them are
:45:20. > :45:22.being pushed closer to the breadline. And nowhere is that more
:45:23. > :45:27.true than in the dairy industry. The crisis continues, despite coalition
:45:27. > :45:31.hopes for a voluntary code of practice.
:45:31. > :45:38.The grass still has not grown much on this cold, wet nurse land in
:45:38. > :45:44.South Norfolk. -- marshland. But they had run out of feed, so they
:45:44. > :45:51.had to be put out on the land. is not enough money in it at the
:45:51. > :45:57.moment for the work we have to do. We have struggled. Do you feel like
:45:57. > :46:01.giving up? It has come to that. It has crossed my mind, but hopefully,
:46:01. > :46:08.we have now crossed a low-cost system and we can see a
:46:08. > :46:18.breakthrough. It is no better in the chicken shed, where the price for
:46:18. > :46:23.
:46:23. > :46:29.eggs matches the price of the. one year ago, -- the price of feed.
:46:29. > :46:32.About one year ago, we did not think we could carry on. Why did you carry
:46:32. > :46:38.on? We wanted to see what would happen.
:46:38. > :46:44.They reckon they get 1p per litre for their milk because they have not
:46:44. > :46:51.signed up to the voluntary code of practice, and they are also losing
:46:51. > :47:01.600 �600 per year in environmental subsidies from Europe -- �6,600 per
:47:01. > :47:04.year in environmental subsidies for neuro. -- Europe. We are in the
:47:04. > :47:08.final round of the Common Agricultural Policy's reform
:47:08. > :47:15.negotiations, with hope a deal can be struck in June. The National
:47:15. > :47:18.Farmers' Union wants to make sure any budget cuts are spread across
:47:18. > :47:24.the EU and don't analyse farmers here. Unfortunately, the UK
:47:24. > :47:29.Government does not put farming at the top of its priorities. The
:47:29. > :47:34.French have already done a deal to get an extra 1 billion euros for
:47:34. > :47:40.their farmers. I am worried, as this horse trading goes on for weeks,
:47:40. > :47:45.English farmers in particular, the ones I represent, will be sold down
:47:45. > :47:50.the river. Even this week's Suffolk show could not dodge the bad weather
:47:50. > :48:00.that has caused havoc. We are at least one month late coming into the
:48:00. > :48:04.summer. We had summing -- we are having major problems. We are about
:48:04. > :48:09.three weeks to one month late and that has to relate, especially as we
:48:09. > :48:14.are still called in May, to a later harvest. I am not sure it can catch
:48:14. > :48:20.up. Yet they are managing to bottles hundreds of metres for a growing
:48:20. > :48:25.rapeseed oil market. While the market for milk really breaks even.
:48:25. > :48:29.This farm has been in the family for three generations, but cannot
:48:29. > :48:36.provide a future for two sons. love the animals here and love to
:48:36. > :48:39.see them out. Earlier this week, Andrew Sinclair
:48:39. > :48:42.spoke to Sir James Paice, who is himself a farmer. He was the Farming
:48:42. > :48:44.Minister that introduced the voluntary code of practice for the
:48:44. > :48:49.dairy industry before he was moved from his post.
:48:49. > :48:55.I hope that the rest of those processors will sign up, that the
:48:55. > :49:00.organisation, of which they are all members, will exert more Prince --
:49:00. > :49:04.pressure, and all the pressure it can, because this was a deal done
:49:04. > :49:11.between both sides of the industry, with government as a catalyst to
:49:11. > :49:16.make it happen. Hopefully, a relationship between producers and
:49:16. > :49:22.processors will carry them into the future. Wouldn't a mandatory scheme
:49:22. > :49:28.be better? It is still there, and it is up to the present ministers to do
:49:28. > :49:33.that to introduce it. Do you think we should? Do not forget, we
:49:33. > :49:38.launched this in September, the day I lost my job as minister, and we
:49:38. > :49:43.knew it would be at least this April before it would be up and running,
:49:44. > :49:48.so it is early days to make a judgement. But the job of
:49:48. > :49:57.legislation is still available, but limited, because it is the EU that
:49:57. > :50:03.can only address certain issues. if that is not enough, there are no
:50:03. > :50:10.worries about CAP reform, and future payments, our farmers right to be
:50:10. > :50:15.worried? I think they are, and I think this reform of CAP was a great
:50:15. > :50:20.opportunity for Europe as a whole to look forward. We put the days of
:50:20. > :50:26.surpluses and butter and milk lakes behind us and we are looking at a
:50:26. > :50:30.period of 30-40 years we have the world could be short of food and we
:50:30. > :50:36.need to refocus the CAP. That opportunity has not been grasped by
:50:36. > :50:40.anyone. What we are seeing now is going to be a mess, not resolved,
:50:40. > :50:45.not satisfactory for anybody in Europe, but I certainly think that
:50:45. > :50:50.is a risk that British farmers, particularly, could lose out from
:50:50. > :50:55.some discussions. Why are we doing so badly? We hear reports the French
:50:55. > :51:05.have an extra �1 billion. The dead. Why are we getting this wrong
:51:05. > :51:06.
:51:06. > :51:14.mission marked -- they did. When these decisions were taken, such as
:51:14. > :51:19.with France, and switching money, and the different arms of the CAP,
:51:19. > :51:25.those decisions were taken at the behest of the Treasury, rather than
:51:25. > :51:29.in the best interests of British farmers. One criticism I have heard
:51:29. > :51:32.from British farmers is many people in government, particularly the
:51:32. > :51:39.Treasury and civil servants, do not understand farming. Do you think
:51:39. > :51:43.that is true? I think it is true. I have no doubt after two and a half
:51:43. > :51:47.years in government, and a huge section does not understand farming,
:51:47. > :51:51.and not keeping up to speed with changes. Some of the rhetoric is
:51:52. > :51:57.still about those days of and cutting production and farmers being
:51:58. > :52:03.subsidised. They have not caught up. Geoffrey Van Orden, a damning
:52:03. > :52:07.indictment that the Treasury does not understand farming. It is very
:52:07. > :52:14.difficult area and that is no doubt, after the last reform discussions,
:52:14. > :52:20.many of us were disappointed that we were not able to do more for British
:52:20. > :52:28.farmers in the way that they want. Over the years, over decades now,
:52:28. > :52:35.we're British farmers have not got a fair section of the CAP payments. At
:52:35. > :52:41.the moment, something like 50 billion per year is spent on Sun,
:52:41. > :52:44.and British farmers get about 3 billion of that. People watching
:52:44. > :52:54.will be wondering what you as Europe-1-macro are doing, surely it
:52:54. > :52:55.
:52:55. > :52:59.is your job to negotiate on farmers behalf? -- as MEPs. There are some
:52:59. > :53:06.differences. We have heard that this is a government that cares more
:53:06. > :53:11.about cutting the amount going down rather than how it is spent. There
:53:11. > :53:16.was one attack on George Osborne the from a conservative. There are clear
:53:16. > :53:21.dividing lines. The National farmers union once a common policy as
:53:21. > :53:27.possible. It does not want other countries, such as the French,
:53:28. > :53:33.getting money under the table and then missing out. Yet you and your
:53:33. > :53:37.colleagues voted against a more competitive CAP. There are many
:53:37. > :53:47.areas we are, very consciously, we wanted to help local farmers.
:53:47. > :53:53.Sometimes, we find ourselves not voting in the way the government
:53:53. > :54:03.like. Can I just introduce what our position is as UK farming goes? Open
:54:03. > :54:10.
:54:10. > :54:16.Europe have put some figures David Cameron had the chance to
:54:16. > :54:19.challenge that money going to the friends and chose not to do so. One
:54:19. > :54:25.environment, we should have environmental compliance for the
:54:25. > :54:29.money going to farmers. Farmers are stewards of the environment, many
:54:29. > :54:37.supporting this, yet the Conservative MEPs voted against
:54:37. > :54:42.this. We want to see British farmers having higher standards of welfare.
:54:42. > :54:49.Exactly. But conservatives voted against it. We are very strong
:54:49. > :54:55.supporters of animal welfare. We want to see incentives to farmers
:54:55. > :55:01.that are productive and producing sustainable farming. That is what we
:55:01. > :55:07.want to encourage. You say that. You voted differently in March. For Sir
:55:08. > :55:13.James Paice to come on, Cambridge Tory MP, man who abolished the
:55:13. > :55:21.agricultural wages board, meaning some people lose holidays and sick
:55:22. > :55:25.pay, I think... I just want to... are trying to create a more
:55:25. > :55:30.efficient farming industry across the United Kingdom. Of course that
:55:30. > :55:40.is what we want. But those figures revealed a distortion in where the
:55:40. > :55:42.
:55:42. > :55:47.money goes. It was already geared against us, and British farmers, in
:55:47. > :55:55.the European Union. That has been the system for many years. We shall
:55:55. > :55:58.leave that they are for now. Thank you. -- leave that there. A fresh
:55:58. > :56:00.wind is blowing through some of our county halls following this month's
:56:00. > :56:06.elections. With both Cambridgeshire and Norfolk now in no overall
:56:06. > :56:09.control. Strange bedfellows are being forced to work together. In
:56:09. > :56:11.Norfolk, a rainbow alliance of Labour, the Liberal Democrats, UKIP
:56:11. > :56:13.and the Greens has been formed. While in Cambridgeshire, the
:56:14. > :56:16.Conservatives are being allowed to run a minority administration. And
:56:16. > :56:19.there's another big change coming in. Both authorities have voted to
:56:19. > :56:22.do away with the cabinet system of local government. Instead of a
:56:22. > :56:27.handful of members from the ruling party making all the decisions,
:56:27. > :56:32.committees of councillors will be set up to run things. The key thing
:56:32. > :56:35.about it is bringing back what we see as the democratic deficit lost
:56:35. > :56:41.over years, making decision processes back in the chamber over
:56:41. > :56:44.there, and what it has two B, so that is why we are united together
:56:44. > :56:52.to bring that into existence, a committee system making decisions in
:56:52. > :56:56.the chamber, to all 84 members. And not just our members, including
:56:56. > :57:00.Conservative members as well. advocated the cabinet system,
:57:00. > :57:05.because we need to respond to pressing issues. One of the reasons
:57:05. > :57:11.it was introduced is because decision-making is so very slow and
:57:11. > :57:15.the committee system. Take not the County Council, for example,
:57:15. > :57:20.employing 25,000 people, a very large organisation, and we need to
:57:20. > :57:23.be able to react and plan and do that accordingly and one of the
:57:23. > :57:32.problems with the committee system is everyone works in silos
:57:32. > :57:35.underneath their committee, not enough across the board working.
:57:35. > :57:41.George Nobbs, the Labour leader of Norfolk Council, joins us from
:57:41. > :57:47.Norwich. Why do you prefer the committee system? It is not just me,
:57:47. > :57:53.it is four parties out of five in Norfolk County Council. What the
:57:53. > :57:56.system advocated is decisions like the one about the incinerator of
:57:56. > :58:02.Kings Lynn, dragging on for well over three years, still massive
:58:02. > :58:08.protest, planning applications and enquiries, and that was a decision
:58:08. > :58:14.made by a cabinet of ten people, where the council never had a chance
:58:14. > :58:17.to discuss it. It may sound strange to people outside, but people do not
:58:17. > :58:23.understand that the council does not vote on things at present, it is
:58:23. > :58:28.made by a small group of people, and we are trying to change that.
:58:28. > :58:35.you worried no decisions could be made? What a good decisions, but no
:58:35. > :58:42.decisions. Quite the opposite. -- lots of good discussions, but no
:58:43. > :58:49.decisions. Quite the opposite. It will take as a year to change the
:58:49. > :58:52.system, because that is what the law says. This is not a Labour policy,
:58:52. > :59:00.because other Labour administrations are not doing the same thing, and
:59:00. > :59:08.this could be party political. cannot see how it could be if it was
:59:08. > :59:11.not an across-the-board. Some other councils are adopting it. We must
:59:11. > :59:16.get away from the silly idea that we must have dogma and local
:59:16. > :59:20.government. The Conservatives have done things a certain way for
:59:20. > :59:25.several years, they have had their own way, run roughshod, and assisted
:59:25. > :59:31.them on nobody else. We have tried to do a different approach, with
:59:31. > :59:36.several parties working together. UKIP, Liberal Democrats, Greens and
:59:37. > :59:42.labour are four parties with different views on a huge range of
:59:42. > :59:48.subjects, but coming together on this essential issue, for the people
:59:48. > :59:53.of Norfolk themselves. Stay with us. Geoffrey Van Orden, labour and UKIP
:59:53. > :00:00.coalition, strange bedfellows. All-macro absolutely. This was never
:00:00. > :00:08.part of Labour policy. absolutely. This was never part of
:00:08. > :00:11.the policy. I think what the Conservative leader of Norfolk has
:00:11. > :00:15.suggested is perhaps there ought to be a discussion amongst all the
:00:15. > :00:22.parties to work out the best way forward and that is the way to do
:00:22. > :00:31.it. George Nobbs, do you disagree? think you are living in a fantasy
:00:31. > :00:38.world. What was said was what do I have to do to become leader? You are
:00:38. > :00:45.living... Richard Howitt, you are quite keen on this idea of
:00:45. > :00:49.committees. I am keen on democracy, and the electorate spoke in May,
:00:49. > :00:54.kicking the Conservatives out, and I am deeply proud as a Labour leader
:00:54. > :01:00.of Norfolk County Council. On issues that George and labour really cares
:01:00. > :01:06.about, and the Mehdi people of Norfolk, -- and the local people of
:01:06. > :01:11.Norfolk, schools, for example. And they can deal with issues where the
:01:11. > :01:18.Conservatives failed. More people voted conservative than for any
:01:18. > :01:25.other party in Norfolk. More people voted for UKIP than was anticipated.
:01:25. > :01:34.Perhaps, more right thinking voters than previously, but ending up with
:01:34. > :01:41.a left leaning leader. How does that work? George Nobbs? Can I answer
:01:41. > :01:49.some of those bizarre points. Most of the people that voted are
:01:49. > :01:54.represented by the coalition I lead. Your idea is that 32% voted
:01:54. > :02:02.conservative and get 100% of the government. That is going to end.
:02:02. > :02:07.coalition more democratic? UKIP are not in the Cabinet and there are no
:02:07. > :02:12.UKIP policies endorsed by Labour here. I give evidence against the
:02:12. > :02:16.incinerator in Kings Lynn, and feel strongly it is a bad environmental
:02:16. > :02:21.solution. The fact that as a new majority in Norfolk on that issue
:02:21. > :02:26.alone, I celebrate. We shall leave it there. George Nobbs, thank you
:02:26. > :02:30.for your time. We've seen some anniversaries this week. It's a year
:02:30. > :02:32.since Mary Portas set out to revive our high streets and six months
:02:32. > :02:41.since the introduction of Police and Crime Commissioners. Chris Bond
:02:41. > :02:46.rounds it all up in 60 seconds. Tough times on the high street and
:02:46. > :02:50.despite a cash injection from the regional Guru, Mary Portas, some
:02:50. > :02:56.businesses are still in the slow lane. Meanwhile, speeding up heavy
:02:56. > :03:00.traffic the aim of some Essex County Council us, who want a ban on
:03:00. > :03:08.lorries taking over on the A12. Charles Clarke once ran the Home
:03:08. > :03:10.Office, who this week criticised the cost and role of some recently
:03:10. > :03:13.elected Police and Crime Commissioners. After six months, the
:03:13. > :03:19.signs are not good and I see no positive response to the existence
:03:19. > :03:25.of them. And reflecting on the positives and negatives after 20
:03:25. > :03:29.years in Brussels, one MEP announced he will not stand for re-election.
:03:29. > :03:35.If you go back to where we started, we were a group of people meeting
:03:35. > :03:40.and talking shop, now with the Lisbon Treaty, we have real powers
:03:40. > :03:46.and we can change government's laws.
:03:46. > :03:53.Gentleman, Robert Sturdy, standing down before next year's elections.
:03:53. > :04:01.Any of you planning on that? Not at all. Lots more to be done. Robert is
:04:01. > :04:06.a decent man. It is a sign of the changing nature of the Tory party.
:04:06. > :04:14.What about your plans? My ambition is for Jeffrey to retire when he
:04:14. > :04:21.loses next year, and I am hopeful to carry on. Being an MEP takes up
:04:21. > :04:26.time. What about ambitions beyond politics? One day, I will think
:04:26. > :04:32.about my third career, but I am not ready yet, still a lot to be done in
:04:32. > :04:37.the European Parliament and chairing -- and changing Europe policy. It
:04:37. > :04:45.has been a wrong struggle, -- it has been a long struggle, but we're
:04:45. > :04:49.getting there. I am proud to stay next year. I wish you good luck.
:04:49. > :04:53.They are not stopping being MEPs any time soon. Thank you both very much
:04:53. > :04:56.for joining us. That's all for now. Don't forget Deborah McGurran's blog
:04:56. > :05:00.for all the latest political updates. Join us at 11 o'clock next