:00:20. > :00:47.do with the lack of talent, it is Sunday Politics. David Cameron
:00:47. > :00:53.house-buyers with deposits. Is he merely stoking a new house price
:00:53. > :00:56.bubble? As Tory activist 's gather in Manchester, we will have the
:00:56. > :01:00.results of our exclusive survey in Manchester, we will have the
:01:00. > :01:06.Conservative councillors. I will be William Hague. And Ed Miliband made
:01:06. > :01:09.headlines with his pledge to freeze energy prices for 20 months after
:01:09. > :01:10.headlines with his pledge to freeze the next election. But does the
:01:10. > :01:11.headlines with his pledge to freeze policy really stack up? Shadow
:01:11. > :01:45.With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be
:01:45. > :01:48.tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the
:01:48. > :01:55.show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the
:01:55. > :02:02.Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been
:02:02. > :02:06.bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for
:02:06. > :02:09.married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending
:02:10. > :02:13.cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of
:02:13. > :02:19.the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of
:02:19. > :02:24.next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working
:02:24. > :02:33.people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical
:02:33. > :02:34.family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:34. > :02:43.asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:43. > :02:46.mortgage payment, but they can't get the mortgage. They can't buy their
:02:46. > :02:50.flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while
:02:50. > :02:52.people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own
:02:52. > :02:58.flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own
:02:58. > :03:02.is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to
:03:02. > :03:05.kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls
:03:05. > :03:10.show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent
:03:10. > :03:26.numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their
:03:26. > :03:36.For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we
:03:36. > :03:43.asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors
:03:43. > :03:45.asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at
:03:45. > :03:48.home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there
:03:48. > :03:55.are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there
:03:55. > :04:02.immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of
:04:02. > :04:08.our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and
:04:08. > :04:18.Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --
:04:18. > :04:23.Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK
:04:23. > :04:26.Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative
:04:26. > :04:31.councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The
:04:31. > :04:40.concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't
:04:40. > :04:43.concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is
:04:43. > :04:50.concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they
:04:50. > :04:50.concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends
:04:50. > :05:06.what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,
:05:06. > :05:11.from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in
:05:11. > :05:14.Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from
:05:14. > :05:23.London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory
:05:23. > :05:29.councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of
:05:29. > :05:32.ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge
:05:32. > :05:34.people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where
:05:34. > :05:38.they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where
:05:38. > :05:40.problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where
:05:40. > :05:42.side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those
:05:42. > :05:49.words. Explain your T-shirt, it like that, I would not use those
:05:49. > :05:54.phrase that a senior Cameron person is alleged to have used about you?
:05:54. > :05:58.It is a humorous way of letting is alleged to have used about you?
:05:58. > :06:01.party now that we are here to say important. We are not going away any
:06:01. > :06:06.time soon. A sentiment you will important. We are not going away any
:06:06. > :06:09.a lot at this conference, because just 22% of councillors in our
:06:09. > :06:16.survey said that David Cameron was any good at listening to the people
:06:16. > :06:21.that work hard for his party. That was Adam. Joining me now from the
:06:21. > :06:26.Conservative Party conference in William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday
:06:26. > :06:33.Politics. Good morning. Over one in five Tory councillors in our survey
:06:33. > :06:36.support a pact with UKIP at the five Tory councillors in our survey
:06:36. > :06:39.election. Why do you think that five Tory councillors in our survey
:06:39. > :06:41.If it is one in five, it means a large majority did not want a pact
:06:41. > :06:46.with UKIP at the next election. large majority did not want a pact
:06:46. > :06:49.have noticed that UKIP, in local elections, has been receiving votes,
:06:49. > :06:52.some of which would otherwise have been for the Conservatives. I think
:06:52. > :06:58.we have to make sure that people election they are choosing between a
:06:58. > :07:01.Conservative and Labour Government, as David Cameron as Prime Minister
:07:01. > :07:07.or Ed Miliband. If people want to get a referendum on Europe, the
:07:07. > :07:07.or Ed Miliband. If people want to way to do that is to have David
:07:07. > :07:12.Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a
:07:12. > :07:15.general election is different from the local government perspective. It
:07:15. > :07:20.is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of
:07:20. > :07:23.one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition
:07:23. > :07:31.one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an
:07:31. > :07:36.happened? Looking at your survey, three times as many didn't want
:07:36. > :07:38.happened? Looking at your survey, with statistics, you can highlight
:07:38. > :07:42.it whichever way around you want to. The point is, we are not having
:07:42. > :07:49.pacts with other parties, electoral pacts with other parties. You rule
:07:49. > :07:52.it out? That is not going to happen. What we do want is to have a pact
:07:52. > :07:56.it out? That is not going to happen. with the voters, if you like, as we
:07:56. > :08:00.have often done in the Conservative Party. We have won over the voters
:08:00. > :08:02.of other parties to support our policies and Prime Minister. That is
:08:02. > :08:05.important with those people that say important with those people that say
:08:05. > :08:09.they want to vote for UKIP. By default, they would produce a Labour
:08:09. > :08:14.government in the exact opposite of many of the things they intend,
:08:14. > :08:15.government in the exact opposite of Conservative and decide to vote
:08:15. > :08:18.government in the exact opposite of UKIP instead in a general election.
:08:18. > :08:25.That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the
:08:25. > :08:29.That could help to produce a Labour committee, the elected voice of
:08:29. > :08:33.Conservative backbenchers, he says your party should spell out what had
:08:33. > :08:38.once back from the European Union before next year's European actions.
:08:38. > :08:44.Do you agree? We will be spelling out some things in the European
:08:44. > :08:53.elections. I will be talking about this later on today. For instance,
:08:53. > :08:58.European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in
:08:58. > :09:03.believed in. We would like that ever closer union, a concept that in
:09:03. > :09:07.consequences that would flow from that. We will be setting out the
:09:07. > :09:13.examples and principles of the changes we want to say. Certainly
:09:13. > :09:16.over the next year, not only before the European actions but the general
:09:16. > :09:21.election, if you are saying, let have the exact list of anything
:09:21. > :09:24.election, if you are saying, let negotiate, that is difficult because
:09:24. > :09:29.there will be a negotiation of a new deal in Europe if David Cameron
:09:29. > :09:35.there will be a negotiation of a new election. To some extent, that has
:09:35. > :09:38.to be negotiated. Only 11% of your own councillors feel that people in
:09:38. > :09:46.their area think that George Osborne is in touch with ordinary people.
:09:46. > :09:53.is not for me to explain why people say what they say in surveys. The
:09:53. > :09:56.important thing is what we are delivering for the country. What
:09:56. > :10:00.George Osborne is delivering his renewed economic growth. 1.4 million
:10:00. > :10:06.new jobs in the private sector, renewed economic growth. 1.4 million
:10:06. > :10:09.for hard-working people, by reducing the tax for 25 million of them.
:10:09. > :10:12.for hard-working people, by reducing Help To Buy scheme that we are
:10:12. > :10:17.highlighting today. That is what really matters to people, actually,
:10:17. > :10:20.I think you will find. Let's talk about helping ordinary people. Ed
:10:20. > :10:28.Miliband is guilty freeze energy prices. What are you going to do
:10:28. > :10:36.about energy prices, we already asked energy companies to put people
:10:36. > :10:45.on their lowest tariffs. This has not been amended. -- implemented.
:10:45. > :10:51.Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going
:10:51. > :10:58.to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened
:10:58. > :11:01.now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not
:11:01. > :11:07.happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of
:11:07. > :11:10.Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened
:11:10. > :11:16.under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in
:11:16. > :11:19.opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big
:11:19. > :11:23.change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is,
:11:23. > :11:30.change in oil prices then the policy would dry up some of the investment
:11:30. > :11:33.in the energy industry. I don't think it is a credible promise.
:11:33. > :11:33.in the energy industry. I don't a party that presided over council
:11:33. > :11:40.tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council
:11:40. > :11:46.tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,
:11:46. > :11:48.tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George
:11:48. > :11:52.Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the
:11:52. > :11:56.European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the
:11:56. > :12:01.they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular
:12:01. > :12:05.issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives
:12:05. > :12:08.and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We
:12:08. > :12:11.should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have
:12:12. > :12:18.never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have
:12:18. > :12:20.European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be
:12:21. > :12:24.decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be
:12:25. > :12:26.there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We
:12:26. > :12:32.are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We
:12:32. > :12:36.competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was
:12:36. > :12:41.meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in
:12:41. > :12:51.Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing
:12:51. > :12:56.the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing
:12:56. > :13:00.company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it
:13:00. > :13:08.back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own
:13:08. > :13:10.Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are
:13:10. > :13:13.free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are
:13:13. > :13:16.free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are
:13:16. > :13:21.any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's
:13:21. > :13:25.recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the
:13:25. > :13:29.energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to
:13:29. > :13:33.fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre
:13:33. > :13:35.fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed
:13:35. > :13:39.Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested
:13:39. > :13:46.interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the
:13:47. > :13:52.record. I just did! 1.4 million extra jobs in the private sector, 25
:13:52. > :13:56.million people with a tax cut, a Help To Buy scheme which is going to
:13:56. > :14:03.help so many people, particularly young people have the house that
:14:03. > :14:08.future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to
:14:08. > :14:11.work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working
:14:11. > :14:32.While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians
:14:32. > :14:37.weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week
:14:37. > :14:45.to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why
:14:45. > :14:48.to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words
:14:48. > :14:52.- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign
:14:52. > :14:57.Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that
:14:57. > :15:03.will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We
:15:03. > :15:07.negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to
:15:07. > :15:12.whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we
:15:12. > :15:17.are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as
:15:17. > :15:20.are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When
:15:20. > :15:24.will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next
:15:24. > :15:27.will we know if he is not just weeks, it will be a very important
:15:27. > :15:34.time. He has said there should be more transparency over the Iranian
:15:34. > :15:40.transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking
:15:40. > :15:47.for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming
:15:47. > :15:51.information? The information that the international of authority is
:15:51. > :15:55.asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form
:15:55. > :16:00.a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test
:16:00. > :16:09.their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they
:16:09. > :16:14.asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really
:16:15. > :16:22.negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,
:16:22. > :16:31.what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the
:16:31. > :16:36.Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution
:16:36. > :16:44.we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the
:16:44. > :16:50.Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter
:16:50. > :16:53.Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does
:16:53. > :17:00.that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for
:17:00. > :17:05.Security Council resolution about Iraq, which most people concluded
:17:05. > :17:13.in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about
:17:13. > :17:18.terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security
:17:18. > :17:24.Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if
:17:24. > :17:33.the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent
:17:33. > :17:38.counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something
:17:38. > :17:43.you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely
:17:43. > :17:48.to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress
:17:49. > :17:53.that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of
:17:53. > :18:08.Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason
:18:08. > :18:14.credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a
:18:14. > :18:14.credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it
:18:14. > :18:20.through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it
:18:20. > :18:25.the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the
:18:25. > :18:29.policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military
:18:30. > :18:35.action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it
:18:35. > :18:40.changed. We were not in a rush for military action. The boat put to
:18:40. > :18:50.the House of Commons was to have inspectors reported. It was before
:18:50. > :19:02.Russian and Syrian policy changed. We need to make sure that works
:19:02. > :19:05.Russian and Syrian policy changed. practice. Thank you. What do you
:19:05. > :19:09.make about this rushing forward with the help to buy scheme which
:19:09. > :19:14.was meant to start next year - coming forward mad to the next
:19:14. > :19:28.couple of weeks? I think it is a Government having an interest in
:19:28. > :19:33.mortgage lending. -- there is a fundamental problem. It should have
:19:33. > :19:38.been set much lower to exclude London and the South East where
:19:38. > :19:44.houses are dramatically overvalued. Many economists think freezing
:19:44. > :19:49.energy prices is a terrible policy. These policies can be popular. If
:19:49. > :19:59.you have no chance of getting a deposit, the Government will make
:19:59. > :20:04.Osborne tried every single lever. It looked like he could not do
:20:04. > :20:11.anything to get the economy moving. It is moving. They have pulled it
:20:11. > :20:14.forward and there are signs it is recovering. The reason why they
:20:14. > :20:17.forward and there are signs it is doing this is they want to show
:20:17. > :20:21.this week at the conference there are real sort of understandable
:20:21. > :20:25.issues you can explain very simply that really up going to improve
:20:25. > :20:34.people's lives. The Conservatives Miliband's speech last week. The
:20:35. > :20:49.nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price
:20:49. > :20:54.freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on
:20:54. > :21:02.that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism
:21:02. > :21:04.to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will
:21:04. > :21:10.be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will
:21:10. > :21:18.about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the
:21:18. > :21:20.political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities
:21:20. > :21:26.standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities
:21:26. > :21:31.below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with
:21:31. > :21:31.below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing
:21:31. > :21:43.against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing
:21:43. > :21:48.before the Labour conference, which is unemployment, GDP growth and
:21:48. > :21:54.before the Labour conference, which warming economic picture. That does
:21:54. > :22:00.not pay energy bills. Does not sound that the Tories have anything
:22:00. > :22:02.not pay energy bills. Does not to counter the price freeze. --
:22:02. > :22:04.not pay energy bills. Does not does not sound. They have had a
:22:04. > :22:09.week to think about a great attack line and they do not add anything.
:22:09. > :22:32.the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike
:22:32. > :22:33.the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able
:22:33. > :22:52.it is about credibility. Being seen as serious and grown-up is worth
:22:52. > :22:52.it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.
:22:52. > :23:01.with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement
:23:01. > :23:06.with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins
:23:06. > :23:12.to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last
:23:12. > :23:13.week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue
:23:14. > :23:18.to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue
:23:18. > :23:24.how much people are being hit in the pockets. People know by energy
:23:24. > :23:28.prices are going up. There is a structural change in the world that
:23:28. > :23:33.was not there before - China and India. These energy companies may
:23:33. > :23:40.be making huge profit but, at the end of the day, what is driving
:23:40. > :23:42.be making huge profit but, at the the cost of fuel is China and India.
:23:42. > :23:47.Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the
:23:47. > :23:56.people Sammir on that one. How dare Labour's Conference in Brighton
:23:56. > :23:59.last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style
:23:59. > :24:02.and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength
:24:02. > :24:04.of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to
:24:05. > :24:11.position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader
:24:11. > :24:13.told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the
:24:13. > :24:17.vested interests that hold back up to the strong and take on the
:24:17. > :24:21.economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as
:24:21. > :24:22.economy. In a speech in which he action hero, Mr Miliband promised
:24:22. > :24:26.to switch the forthcoming business action hero, Mr Miliband promised
:24:26. > :24:30.tax cut from large firms to smaller businesses. He said he would force
:24:30. > :24:35.big firms to train at an apprentice every time they bring in a worker
:24:35. > :24:40.from outside the EU. He hinted that increasing the minimum wage would
:24:40. > :24:47.be increased. He bowed to take on developers with a use it or lose it
:24:47. > :24:52.threat to landowners and pledged to build 200,000 homes each year by
:24:52. > :24:57.2020. He promised to freeze energy prices and reset the energy market.
:24:57. > :25:06.The next Labour government will freeze gas and electricity prices
:25:06. > :25:12.provoked a rash of headlines - hailing the return of red Ed macro.
:25:12. > :25:15.It has also given him a spike in the polls. And Labour's Shadow
:25:15. > :25:33.Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In
:25:33. > :25:42.what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left
:25:42. > :25:53.companies that dominate the energy generate energy, and sell it on
:25:53. > :25:55.companies that dominate the energy Miliband recognised when he was
:25:55. > :25:59.Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company
:25:59. > :26:01.Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,
:26:01. > :26:05.all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a
:26:05. > :26:13.warm front programme and everything Horsell market is too secretive
:26:13. > :26:16.warm front programme and everything it is too much about such supply. -
:26:16. > :26:18.- the wholesale market. We have been raising with the Government in
:26:18. > :26:25.a co-operative way the argument been raising with the Government in
:26:25. > :26:31.resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which
:26:31. > :26:34.prices have gone up. Labour put wholesale and retail together. It
:26:34. > :26:40.was the start this dates back to wholesale and retail together. It
:26:40. > :26:40.was the start this dates back to privatisation. We took some reforms
:26:40. > :26:48.realised it was not working and privatisation. We took some reforms
:26:48. > :26:50.was broken and we need to reset privatisation. We took some reforms
:26:50. > :26:55.Ed Miliband will be the first to onwards. Let's have a look at what
:26:55. > :26:59.happened to energy prices under onwards. Let's have a look at what
:26:59. > :27:08.Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up
:27:08. > :27:14.by 48%. The market was broken and we saw prices biking as wholesale
:27:14. > :27:21.prices went up. The tick action we saw prices biking as wholesale
:27:21. > :27:31.the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we
:27:31. > :27:35.programme. Trying to do things around social obligations needs
:27:35. > :27:43.programme. Trying to do things be looked at. Gas and electricity
:27:43. > :27:46.presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look
:27:46. > :27:52.at the breakdown of dual fuel - of Labour policy. Beds have a look
:27:52. > :27:59.and electricity bill. -- let's have a look. The supply costs of getting
:27:59. > :28:11.it to us and so on. The policies government - Green levies - are
:28:11. > :28:24.energy bills. £112 on average bill of 1188. You have put the bill up.
:28:24. > :28:29.obligations amount to £112. That helps the poorest insulate homes.
:28:29. > :28:36.Overwhelmingly, looking at your wholesale costs are worth more than
:28:36. > :28:43.half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,
:28:43. > :28:52.a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.
:28:52. > :28:57.Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that
:28:57. > :29:02.off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.
:29:02. > :29:11.It is important that restimulate energy. It -- we stimulate. If we
:29:12. > :29:16.do not have clean energy, we will be beholden for ever-more to fossil
:29:17. > :29:20.do not have clean energy, we will fuels that are depleting. It will
:29:20. > :29:30.create jobs and bring in investment will start in the last few years,
:29:30. > :29:37.investment. If I could go back to whatever advance there are, looking
:29:37. > :29:41.at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy
:29:41. > :29:46.efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it be better
:29:46. > :29:53.delivered by another agency? They are fair questions. We need to get
:29:53. > :29:57.market. Can we make the market will competitive make sure when there is
:29:57. > :30:02.downward pressure on wholesale prices, that is reflected on our
:30:02. > :30:04.bills? That is the bigger picture argument. Also the freeze to help
:30:04. > :30:17.As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your
:30:17. > :30:20.actions. Ed Miliband introduced prices, it was as a result of your
:30:20. > :30:27.climate change act. He admitted prices would have to rise to pay for
:30:27. > :30:30.decarbonisation. He said, we are going to minimise the costs as much
:30:30. > :30:35.as possible, but it is true there is not a low-cost energy future out
:30:35. > :30:38.there. It is important that we address the pressures on bills,
:30:38. > :30:40.there. It is important that we also recognise that if we are going
:30:40. > :30:48.to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British
:30:48. > :30:59.renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge
:30:59. > :31:08.wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in
:31:08. > :31:13.bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging
:31:13. > :31:16.customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the
:31:16. > :31:24.amount of investment suggested by those profits coming through. But
:31:24. > :31:27.because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will
:31:27. > :31:31.have a world leading commitment speech in Brighton that Labour will
:31:31. > :31:35.Government to take out all carbon from energy generation by 2030.
:31:35. > :31:37.Government to take out all carbon is not that far away. By 2030, no
:31:37. > :31:42.more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive
:31:42. > :31:51.nuclear and much more expensive without bills going up even further?
:31:51. > :31:55.Hang on a second. The 2030 target to remove carbon from the electricity
:31:55. > :31:59.supply, we have said we should set a target now because, actually, it
:31:59. > :32:02.gives us more time to plan ahead and also allows investment to come in.
:32:02. > :32:06.There is plenty of people with cash in their pockets not want to invest
:32:06. > :32:09.what they are stalling because of the Government's hesitancy over
:32:09. > :32:14.this. I just want a clarification here. My understanding is that your
:32:14. > :32:19.commitment is to get rid of all carbon from power generation by
:32:19. > :32:23.2030? From the letters city supply. Only electricity. We will still
:32:23. > :32:27.2030? From the letters city supply. gas? We have always said we will
:32:27. > :32:37.need gas for decades to come. So we are clear for that. But you will be
:32:37. > :32:41.increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding
:32:41. > :32:48.twice the market price to build plans in this country. Renewables
:32:48. > :32:55.are two or three times the market price. Bills are going up under
:32:55. > :32:56.are two or three times the market policies? On nuclear, we took a
:32:56. > :33:00.decision under the Labour Government that we needed to revitalise the
:33:00. > :33:05.sector, to hit targets on clean that we needed to revitalise the
:33:05. > :33:08.energy and make sure it can do the heavy lifting. The Government at the
:33:08. > :33:14.discussions with EDF about what heavy lifting. The Government at the
:33:14. > :33:16.important, because I don't know heavy lifting. The Government at the
:33:16. > :33:19.it's going to be, it is important that stands up to scrutiny in terms
:33:19. > :33:26.of value for money. At the same time, I go back to market reforms.
:33:26. > :33:32.difference, the jargon for nuclear, We will not just have a target for
:33:32. > :33:35.difference, the jargon for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as
:33:35. > :33:36.well. That is even more important, that we have a transparent market so
:33:36. > :33:42.that we can have a robust target that we have a transparent market so
:33:42. > :33:43.that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael
:33:43. > :33:55.Gove recognised in question time they used the term cosy cartel.
:33:56. > :33:58.Gove recognised in question time Cameron saying something needs to be
:33:58. > :34:04.done. I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't acknowledge that. You are
:34:04. > :34:08.going to freeze prices for 20 months regulator to replace Ofgem. Will
:34:08. > :34:11.that regulator have the power to regulator to replace Ofgem. Will
:34:11. > :34:19.control prices? The new energy wholesale costs and prices, which it
:34:19. > :34:28.moment. As a result of that it will wholesale costs and prices, which it
:34:28. > :34:35.wholesale prices fall, it can force the energy companies, if they don't,
:34:35. > :34:38.to pass on reductions in bills to consumers. It will not have what we
:34:38. > :34:43.see in some parts of the European Union, 15 of them, that have a
:34:43. > :34:45.variety of price controls that set things at below inflation and what
:34:45. > :34:50.have you. France, Spain, Italy. things at below inflation and what
:34:50. > :34:54.will not do that. Why? Because we are looking at a temporary price
:34:54. > :35:00.freeze to reflect a reduction in are looking at a temporary price
:35:00. > :35:05.British public respite from ever reforms into the market. At the
:35:05. > :35:07.British public respite from ever of this, what we want is a more
:35:07. > :35:12.competitive market that can be trusted, that is more transparent.
:35:12. > :35:16.We do believe it is right that, actually, we need a regulator that
:35:16. > :35:19.has much more of a role in making effectively. Are you accusing energy
:35:19. > :35:29.companies of profiteering? EU I effectively. Are you accusing energy
:35:29. > :35:31.accusing them of overcharging and not passing on wholesale reduction
:35:31. > :35:41.costs to the customer in a fair not passing on wholesale reduction
:35:41. > :35:48.Of making Carter -- cartel profits? I do believe that the level of
:35:48. > :35:51.profits they have passed on to their shareholders is high, compared to
:35:51. > :35:52.the reductions they could have provided to consumers. Let's look at
:35:52. > :35:59.the evidence for that. Here are provided to consumers. Let's look at
:35:59. > :36:01.British owned companies, SSE and Centrica. In the last fiscal year
:36:01. > :36:10.they made combined earnings of Centrica. In the last fiscal year
:36:10. > :36:15.billion. The remaining money went to debt servicing and paying dividends,
:36:15. > :36:20.which go into pension funds. Where profiteering? My figures that I
:36:20. > :36:28.which go into pension funds. Where through their reporting to Ofgem and
:36:28. > :36:30.work done by other organisations, Witch and others, it shows that
:36:30. > :36:35.work done by other organisations, Centrica's case they have something
:36:35. > :36:39.like 8% return in profit margins on the retail side. That goes up to 24%
:36:39. > :36:45.on the generation side. They have passed on, in terms of profits,
:36:45. > :36:47.something I70 4% through evidence to shareholders. But these figures
:36:47. > :36:57.don't show that. They have invested £3 billion. I am reporting what
:36:57. > :37:01.don't show that. They have invested been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has
:37:01. > :37:03.They may well be, but we don't have the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem
:37:03. > :37:06.of not doing the job they should be of not doing the job they should be
:37:06. > :37:16.doing, and they have held back from across the big six, something like
:37:16. > :37:22.50% of profits has gone over to Centrica's case it is 74%. On the
:37:22. > :37:27.Centrica example, even though they have had the highest profit margins,
:37:28. > :37:32.they have invested the least. It is fair to question. We are running out
:37:32. > :37:36.of time. None of us really know fair to question. We are running out
:37:36. > :37:42.the true price of energy is that is crucial. That is because he merged
:37:42. > :37:46.the market and we can't tell the difference. If they continue putting
:37:46. > :37:50.prices up, even after your price freeze, if they don't invest in
:37:50. > :37:56.prices up, even after your price way that they do, do you rule out
:37:56. > :38:02.competitive market and that is why watching Sunday Politics. Coming up
:38:02. > :38:03.in just over 20 minutes I will be looking at the week ahead with our
:38:04. > :38:48.people should pay something towards it.
:38:48. > :38:52.It is a real immersive experience. We are linking the skills to that
:38:52. > :38:58.which allows the students to develop those skills that we need.
:38:58. > :39:05.Our guests are Liz truss and Bob Lazard.
:39:05. > :39:14.As the Conservative conference gets under way, let's have a look at the
:39:15. > :39:15.recent survey by Lord Ashcroft, the former deputy chairman of the
:39:16. > :39:28.Conservative Party. It is the rise of UKIP which is
:39:28. > :39:33.being blamed for the squeeze on Conservative support in these key
:39:33. > :39:49.marginals, and that could let Labour end. —— in.
:39:49. > :39:58.I think they are completely out of touch with the working people. To
:39:58. > :40:03.get my vote? Everybody says the same dash control immigration and look
:40:03. > :40:13.after the army better. What you think of UKIP? I will be voting for
:40:13. > :40:20.them. UKIP are for the British people and I am British. IPod play
:40:20. > :40:32.wouldn't vote for them at the moment but they are definitely on the up ——
:40:32. > :40:39.I probably wouldn't vote for them. I am full guests on whether we will
:40:39. > :40:45.go forward and gets the economy back on the right track. That is the best
:40:45. > :40:51.way to address peoples worries about living standards. I will put in
:40:51. > :41:00.front of the people if they want that to continue.
:41:01. > :41:10.David Cameron says he doesn't lose sleep over UKIP but the bank the
:41:10. > :41:23.Tories are in these marginal seats? —— do you think the Tories are.
:41:23. > :41:27.We saw that it will be quite a left—wing government under Ed
:41:27. > :41:34.Miliband that puts the economic recovery under threat. As we see in
:41:34. > :41:40.Norfolk, if you thought you cap, they end up with Labour in power.
:41:40. > :41:56.That is not what the voters wanted. Nigel seats when the elections. You
:41:56. > :42:00.are in a marginal seat. This isn't just about you kept taking
:42:00. > :42:14.conservative folks, we can see Labour coming up as well. ——
:42:15. > :42:21.Conservative votes. You wrote a document after the last election.
:42:21. > :42:28.Have any of those recommendations been implemented?
:42:28. > :42:34.Yes, Ed Miliband is very much focused. This cost of living crisis
:42:34. > :42:40.is affecting the whole of the country.
:42:40. > :42:50.Some of your colleagues are talking about a pact with UKIP. I do not
:42:50. > :42:55.think that is the right approach. We have seen 1 million new
:42:55. > :43:01.private—sector jobs since the last election. I think we need to point
:43:01. > :43:06.out what Labour did in the energy sector by putting all the costs on
:43:06. > :43:11.there in the worst place. You may have heard of academy
:43:11. > :43:17.schools and free schools but what about student schools? They are
:43:17. > :43:23.offering something wet different for pupils from the age of 14 and that
:43:23. > :43:30.is training on the job. It is 11am on a Wednesday morning
:43:30. > :43:35.and they are at work but also at school. This job forms a key part of
:43:35. > :43:41.their education. That is because she is a student at this new type of
:43:41. > :43:48.school which combines academic lessons with on—the—job training
:43:48. > :43:53.from the age of 14. You need to project that you are
:43:53. > :44:00.feeling confident. Monday, Wednesday and Friday I go to
:44:00. > :44:05.school. Tuesday I got to the salon and Thursday I go to college.
:44:05. > :44:26.Died you are also getting experience of work? Tell me about your
:44:26. > :44:35.experiences of school previously. I didn't get on well at school. The
:44:35. > :44:46.concept has been updated to prepare young people for the word —— the
:44:46. > :44:57.world of work. There are six of these schools in the south—east.
:44:57. > :45:01.Pupils take five core GCSEs but it is the work experience that sets
:45:01. > :45:12.them apart. Linking the skills helps them work
:45:12. > :45:18.as a team. All the things employers are saying that pupils are getting
:45:18. > :45:26.from traditional schools. By the time they leave school, they
:45:26. > :45:29.are already at a stage where we can leave them with a client on their
:45:29. > :45:35.own and they can work on their own initiative.
:45:35. > :45:49.You have offered a job once she leaves school. Yes. This is used as
:45:49. > :45:55.a rehearsal space but for these students it is also a classroom. I
:45:55. > :46:00.think it is a really good opportunity for young kids to study
:46:00. > :46:06.in a place like this. And a classroom, you are just behind
:46:06. > :46:10.a desk. What you you have the whole sound,
:46:10. > :46:15.it is amazing. We can have the latest stuff and go out into work
:46:15. > :46:19.with the best knowledge. The centre also invites students to
:46:19. > :46:25.work on productions with some of the professionals who passed the roof.
:46:26. > :46:38.The professional hirers want to engage with students because they
:46:38. > :46:46.have at best interest as well. Employees —— employers are saying
:46:46. > :46:49.young people do not have the skills they need so perhaps these schools
:46:49. > :46:53.are a vital part in fixing the economy.
:46:53. > :47:01.We heard that this includes pupils from the age of 14. Is that too
:47:02. > :47:09.young? They are not specialising because it
:47:09. > :47:15.does include core GCSEs. It will get them confidence, being able to look
:47:15. > :47:20.people in the eye, which is what employers want. We need better
:47:20. > :47:23.integration between schools and business. Lots of businesses
:47:23. > :47:27.complain that when students leave school, they do not know about the
:47:27. > :47:34.world outside. Provided there are always parts out of school, it is
:47:34. > :47:40.fantastic that students are getting that experience.
:47:40. > :47:45.Is it broad enough, not so that it doesn't affect progression into
:47:45. > :47:57.higher education? All is schools —— all schools have
:47:57. > :48:05.an obligation to provide the core education but they have also got the
:48:05. > :48:16.ability to move on words as well. Is it true that studio schools are
:48:16. > :48:23.not required to employ teachers? That is also true of free schools.
:48:23. > :48:28.Quite often the person you really want might not be the person with
:48:28. > :48:32.that teaching qualification but they might be a specialist within the
:48:32. > :48:36.subject or an industry and I think it is down to the head teacher to
:48:36. > :48:43.decide who is best for the job other than making the requirement that
:48:43. > :48:46.they have to be a trained teacher. Do you think there are sufficient
:48:46. > :48:51.pupils to fill these schools? The whole point is that they have to
:48:51. > :49:00.show there is demand, they have to make a business case. It is a grass
:49:00. > :49:03.roots operation. It is about parents making that choice. There is demand
:49:03. > :49:06.for these schools. We have seen great successes. We have also seen
:49:06. > :49:11.the university technical colleges which have also been successful.
:49:12. > :49:17.Also, these schools show other schools what they can do. One school
:49:17. > :49:25.in Kings Lynn has business mentors in the school. You do not need to go
:49:25. > :49:32.the full way, there are lots of opportunities for schools to involve
:49:32. > :49:36.as nurses and what they are doing. Best idea was introduced by the
:49:36. > :49:40.Labour Party in 2008 is to motivate students not engaged in the
:49:40. > :49:46.traditional academic environment. Is this the best way to do it? Yes
:49:46. > :49:52.because some people learn from books and study and some people learn from
:49:52. > :49:59.doing things. I think these schools represent a relief I'm educational
:49:59. > :50:06.pathway. We shouldn't assume it is less able students that call the
:50:06. > :50:13.vocational route. All kinds of abilities can learn through doing.
:50:13. > :50:19.These are schools for everybody. But some of the work experience is only
:50:19. > :50:29.for four hours every week. Is that enough?
:50:29. > :50:39.It is for hours more than we got. Work experience was squeezed out of
:50:39. > :50:42.the curriculum for a while. There are youngsters of all abilities who
:50:42. > :50:55.can benefit from this. Why not do this at 16 years old? We
:50:55. > :50:59.do do this at 16 as well. Provided students get the core basics of
:50:59. > :51:12.maths and English and science, it is right that we look in this
:51:12. > :51:16.direction. What employers tell us is that they want more students who
:51:16. > :51:22.have had experience when they leave school or university. There is
:51:22. > :51:27.opportunity for universities to work more closely with businesses. For
:51:28. > :51:31.too long we have separated the workplace and the school and
:51:31. > :51:35.bringing those two things together is massively beneficial.
:51:35. > :51:43.Concern has been growing this week about the government's plans to
:51:43. > :51:53.improve transport and Regents. —— in this region. According to a think
:51:53. > :51:59.tank, there will be fewer trains during London and Southampton during
:51:59. > :52:05.the construction of the new line. They also said the way to ease
:52:05. > :52:08.congestion out of Milton Keynes would be to have more trains stop
:52:08. > :52:23.them. Meanwhile, a Suffolk MP has started
:52:23. > :52:35.a petition to stop the toll on the A14. It is the first road that has a
:52:35. > :52:45.toll that you have to use and have to pay for. We pause it because it
:52:45. > :52:52.is a tax on jobs. —— we oppose it. Many people have no choice but to
:52:52. > :52:57.use that route. The Labour Party said they will look
:52:57. > :53:04.carefully at the Stephen —— the scheme. We will be wanting to have a
:53:04. > :53:10.look at what they are proposing and whether it is the right way forward.
:53:10. > :53:14.Our correspondence met the Prime Minister and raise some of those
:53:14. > :53:20.points. He asked whether a compulsory toll is the right way to
:53:20. > :53:24.deal with congestion. We are holding a consultation and
:53:24. > :53:28.will listen carefully but there is a strong case for saying that when you
:53:28. > :53:32.are putting in new capacity and dealing with congestion, some of the
:53:32. > :53:37.people who will benefit from that should pay towards it. Everybody
:53:37. > :53:41.knows we are living in circumstances where the government cannot just
:53:41. > :53:48.create money and we must live within our means. Sometimes we have to make
:53:48. > :53:53.some tough decisions. But what is upsetting some people is
:53:53. > :54:02.that the plan is to demolish the old road so that everybody will have two
:54:02. > :54:06.use the new toll Road. It is being consulted on so let us
:54:06. > :54:10.see what is the best way that will benefit people.
:54:10. > :54:16.At the consultation shows that lots of people are opposed to it, will
:54:16. > :54:20.you change your mind? When you're living in difficult
:54:20. > :54:26.economic circumstances you want roads to be built and it is right to
:54:26. > :54:31.ask people to make a contribution sometimes.
:54:31. > :54:43.Your big selling point that it will ease congestion is contested by the
:54:43. > :54:49.TaxPayers' Alliance because they say there are other routes that are more
:54:49. > :54:55.congested. And we will deal with those. One of
:54:55. > :55:16.the myths of High Speed two is that it will take up all the money for
:55:16. > :55:21.transport. Very little of that money seems to
:55:21. > :55:27.be coming to East Anglia. Richard Bacon, one of your own MPs, said it
:55:27. > :55:34.just a fraction of the money being spent on HS2 was spent on other
:55:34. > :55:37.projects it would make a big difference.
:55:37. > :55:42.Perhaps he hasn't seen what is being spent. I know why lots of people
:55:43. > :55:47.have started to question this project. We think it will take up
:55:47. > :55:52.all the money for transport. It won't. We have got a capacity
:55:53. > :56:01.constraint on some of our railways so we have to build a new line. The
:56:01. > :56:06.choice is to build an old—style one or build a new high—speed one. If
:56:06. > :56:18.other countries are building these then we should be doing it as well.
:56:18. > :56:24.Where are you on this toll? It is a tax if there is no way of
:56:24. > :56:30.avoiding it. This is a main route to the rest of the country. This is an
:56:30. > :56:37.East Anglian tax, simple as that, so it is unfair and wrong.
:56:37. > :56:45.If there is no money, is a toll better than no improvement at all?
:56:45. > :56:51.Surely you can find a little bit of money to improve one section on the
:56:51. > :56:59.A14 to have a link to the east. We also drive on country lanes, stuck
:56:59. > :57:06.behind lorries which are driving at 40 mph. He needs to connect up
:57:06. > :57:12.places like Lowestoft and make them part of the real economy.
:57:12. > :57:17.Can you understand why people are angry?
:57:17. > :57:21.We have got to look at the reality which is that it is not fit for
:57:22. > :57:32.purpose at the moment. We do need a massive investment. The fact is that
:57:32. > :57:41.rail passengers on HS2 pay a fair to use the service. —— pay a real
:57:41. > :57:49.what I do want to see is that East Anglia is getting its fair share of
:57:49. > :57:54.investment because for decades we have lost out to other parts of the
:57:54. > :58:04.country. That is why I am delighted that there is real investment in the
:58:04. > :58:07.A11 which I have been on today. Provided it is their to this part of
:58:07. > :58:20.the country, I think the principle of the beneficiaries...
:58:20. > :58:30.Is that a pre——runner to what is to come? Yes, we need high—speed rail
:58:30. > :58:34.in this country. What about buses and planes?
:58:34. > :58:48.Here is the round—up. The long—awaited gated us way
:58:48. > :58:57.between Luton and Dunstable was opened this week.
:58:57. > :59:02.People respond to it and start using it.
:59:02. > :59:12.But passengers won't be using Stansted as a super hub airport
:59:12. > :59:17.because it has been deemed too expensive and disruptive.
:59:17. > :59:30.Youngsters were getting breathalysed going into nightclubs. They wouldn't
:59:30. > :59:44.get in if they were too high. A plan for an oil rig off the coast
:59:44. > :59:50.of North Lake has been shelved. They deserve to have the law come
:59:50. > :59:58.down on them like a tonne of bricks. Let us talk about breathalysed in
:59:58. > :00:07.clubbers. What can politicians do about changing our culture of
:00:07. > :00:13.drinking? If somebody is drunk and incapable,
:00:13. > :00:27.take them to somewhere suitable and they should try to get —— have to
:00:27. > :00:30.pay to get out. I think people should take more responsibility for
:00:30. > :00:34.their drinking so I think it is a good idea because it shows them how
:00:34. > :00:40.much they are drinking and that they will have to be responsible to other
:00:40. > :00:47.people and their future health. Lots of these clubs offer buy one
:00:47. > :00:56.get one free deals on these alcohol ranks. Can that be allowed? Lou mac
:00:56. > :00:59.it depends how much people drink. If people are drunk and incapable on
:00:59. > :01:05.the streets, they should have to pay, although it is not a crime.
:01:05. > :01:05.the streets, they should have to and Emily Thornberry. Back to you,
:01:05. > :01:25.So, we'll David Cameron's marriage tax break win over voters? How will
:01:25. > :01:36.So, we'll David Cameron's marriage conference initiatives? And what is
:01:36. > :01:41.UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to with the Tories in Manchester?
:01:41. > :01:56.On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,
:01:56. > :02:02.let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not
:02:02. > :02:05.looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice
:02:05. > :02:09.at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We
:02:09. > :02:11.at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing
:02:12. > :02:15.more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving
:02:15. > :02:20.again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want
:02:20. > :02:25.to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want
:02:25. > :02:32.and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime
:02:32. > :02:39.there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,
:02:39. > :02:50.there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,
:02:50. > :02:53.is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened
:02:53. > :02:59.conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened
:02:59. > :03:05.trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the
:03:05. > :03:11.Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to
:03:11. > :03:16.accusation they are lurching more to the right, which the media wants to
:03:16. > :03:20.able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being
:03:20. > :03:26.able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to
:03:26. > :03:33.whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including
:03:33. > :03:39.Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's
:03:39. > :03:43.call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt
:03:43. > :03:46.that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is
:03:46. > :03:54.not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an
:03:54. > :03:58.have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing
:03:58. > :04:05.discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of
:04:05. > :04:14.believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to
:04:14. > :04:16.believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be
:04:17. > :04:22.discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen
:04:22. > :04:24.and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly
:04:24. > :04:29.possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly
:04:29. > :04:34.a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing
:04:34. > :04:36.Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are
:04:36. > :04:53.very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are
:04:53. > :04:58.Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If
:04:58. > :05:02.you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If
:05:02. > :05:07.Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment
:05:07. > :05:12.I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held
:05:12. > :05:17.seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going
:05:17. > :05:21.to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate
:05:21. > :05:24.with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly
:05:24. > :05:27.clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not
:05:27. > :05:31.support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big
:05:31. > :05:33.turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a
:05:33. > :05:36.pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a
:05:37. > :05:39.going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a
:05:39. > :05:41.or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a
:05:41. > :05:46.seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does
:05:46. > :05:49.David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for
:05:49. > :05:51.UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only
:05:51. > :05:55.that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only
:05:55. > :05:58.really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a
:05:58. > :06:02.decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The
:06:02. > :06:07.question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A
:06:07. > :06:09.question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of
:06:09. > :06:13.current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing
:06:13. > :06:19.Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against
:06:19. > :06:25.recovery. So, plausibly, there is secondary question is, what does
:06:25. > :06:29.David Cameron do to win over those people? He has tried a Europe will
:06:29. > :06:33.referendum and it didn't work. He tried travelling up his immigration
:06:33. > :06:38.policy and that didn't work. I wonder if it is time. You wait until
:06:38. > :06:44.the run-up to 2015, when they start to focus on the explicit choice
:06:44. > :06:52.Cameron, and that is what shifts a Cameron. We heard from William Hague
:06:52. > :06:56.earlier in the programme, the Tory line is that if you vote UKIP you
:06:56. > :07:01.could end up with Ed Miliband in Downing Street. That is the simple
:07:01. > :07:08.appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think Diane is right, I think the European
:07:08. > :07:12.elections will show a good showing for UKIP. It is deemed the one where
:07:12. > :07:14.you can play away. I think it will be hard for people to get excited
:07:14. > :07:20.about that, I think that bounce be hard for people to get excited
:07:20. > :07:26.fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a good ground game, that is difficult
:07:26. > :07:28.for UKIP, that don't have that machinery sorted. How are they going
:07:28. > :07:33.to fund that operation? But the machinery sorted. How are they going
:07:33. > :07:39.bounce could fade away after the European elections. Even if they go
:07:39. > :07:43.election, they are still immensely dangerous to the Conservative Party.
:07:43. > :07:47.But there is really only two things David Cameron can do. One is to
:07:47. > :07:49.But there is really only two things boring and talk about helping people
:07:49. > :07:54.with their mortgage, helping with bread and butter issues. The second
:07:54. > :07:57.thing is, those European actions, he tends to the natural Conservative
:07:57. > :07:59.voters and says, you have had your fun, next year do you want me or Ed
:07:59. > :08:03.Miliband us your prime and? The fun, next year do you want me or Ed
:08:03. > :08:07.danger with David Cameron is saying, of course, there is not going to be
:08:07. > :08:13.a pact, the danger is you will get a repeat of the 1977 election. John
:08:13. > :08:19.Major said, famously, do not bind my hands. A series of Conservative
:08:19. > :08:24.personally rule out membership of the euro, when the Conservative
:08:24. > :08:25.membership was wait and see. That looked like a Prime Minister not in
:08:25. > :08:31.charge of his party. The danger looked like a Prime Minister not in
:08:32. > :08:34.Let's assume you do really well looked like a Prime Minister not in
:08:34. > :08:41.the European actions and there is a widespread expectation that you
:08:41. > :08:44.will, even in Downing Street. They might be managing expectations.
:08:45. > :08:47.will, even in Downing Street. They stops you fading away as the general
:08:47. > :08:50.election approaches? A number of reasons. As has been mentioned,
:08:50. > :08:52.election approaches? A number of whole issue of the referendum pledge
:08:52. > :08:59.has been proved to be an absolute nonsense. It is so contingent on if
:08:59. > :09:07.I am re-elected, if it's not a coalition government, is, if, if.
:09:07. > :09:08.That was fooled nobody. The issue of where voters are coming from, it is
:09:08. > :09:12.because they have lost faith in where voters are coming from, it is
:09:12. > :09:19.David Cameron says. There is nothing he is going to say that is convince
:09:19. > :09:21.think that is my view and the view of a lot of UKIP. I am told that
:09:21. > :09:29.they have expunged Nigel Farage of a lot of UKIP. I am told that
:09:29. > :09:33.the fringes? It is a great scoop, on the front page. They are outside the
:09:33. > :09:38.ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried
:09:38. > :09:43.paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have
:09:43. > :09:43.paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken
:09:43. > :09:48.out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken
:09:48. > :09:53.leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as
:09:53. > :09:59.leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning
:09:59. > :10:01.his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad
:10:01. > :10:04.during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad
:10:04. > :10:10.not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do
:10:10. > :10:14.not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to
:10:14. > :10:17.move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he
:10:17. > :10:17.move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing
:10:17. > :10:29.Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing
:10:29. > :10:33.Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you
:10:33. > :10:36.Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,
:10:36. > :10:40.people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying
:10:40. > :10:45.that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He
:10:45. > :10:48.might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is
:10:48. > :10:55.much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was
:10:56. > :11:02.asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,
:11:02. > :11:09.important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I
:11:09. > :11:09.important. I don't think you are to put up with, every Sunday? By
:11:09. > :11:14.virtue of being born in the US, to put up with, every Sunday? By
:11:14. > :11:24.could be president. Unlike Arnold Schwarzenegger. How about a deal
:11:24. > :11:27.with Boris? He has made no secret, after Eastleigh, that he would be
:11:27. > :11:31.open to a discussion. Let's call it no more than a discussion. He has
:11:31. > :11:36.been adamant, however, he does not see any reason, any justification or
:11:36. > :11:42.any opportunity where he would be able to have that discourse with
:11:42. > :11:45.any opportunity where he would be David Cameron. Maybe it comes down
:11:45. > :11:49.to that on both sides. I've no idea. We know that the Tories will be
:11:49. > :11:52.to that on both sides. I've no idea. more Eurosceptic after the next
:11:52. > :11:56.election? I can't imagine David Cameron's successor will be somebody
:11:56. > :12:04.that supports EU membership in ideological direction of the party.
:12:04. > :12:05.The leadership contest will be about 2018. If you are standing, when
:12:05. > :12:12.this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say
:12:12. > :12:14.this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has
:12:14. > :12:17.turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,
:12:17. > :12:20.turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader
:12:20. > :12:32.by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron
:12:32. > :12:36.eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer
:12:36. > :12:41.line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has
:12:41. > :12:44.been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not
:12:44. > :12:48.the polls immediately after, but the ones about the end of October, when
:12:48. > :12:53.everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a
:12:53. > :12:57.word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is
:12:57. > :13:05.he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on
:13:05. > :13:11.Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour
:13:11. > :13:15.conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he
:13:15. > :13:19.should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with
:13:19. > :13:22.should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live
:13:22. > :13:26.coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from
:13:26. > :13:30.11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from
:13:30. > :13:34.George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next
:13:34. > :13:35.weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor
:13:35. > :13:38.Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor
:13:38. > :13:40.Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.