:00:39. > :00:51.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:52. > :00:56.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:57. > :01:00.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:01. > :01:05.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:06. > :01:10.capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:11. > :01:15.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:16. > :01:16.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:17. > :01:19.should be covered up. In Norwich, plans to make the EU
:01:20. > :01:29.Goodbye. In Norwich, plans to make the EU
:01:30. > :01:30.bigger, could In Norwich, plans to make the EU
:01:31. > :01:36.our midst. In London why one local authority is investigating --
:01:37. > :01:41.investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on
:01:42. > :01:48.its staff. With me as always, the best and the
:01:49. > :01:52.brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt
:01:53. > :01:55.who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they
:01:56. > :02:02.got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to
:02:03. > :02:06.a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home
:02:07. > :02:10.Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the
:02:11. > :02:15.treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met
:02:16. > :02:19.him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was
:02:20. > :02:24.prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.
:02:25. > :02:30.But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.
:02:31. > :02:33.Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.
:02:34. > :02:38.The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there
:02:39. > :02:45.enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the
:02:46. > :02:48.police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad
:02:49. > :02:52.and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for
:02:53. > :02:58.contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to
:02:59. > :03:02.prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what
:03:03. > :03:06.is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try
:03:07. > :03:15.to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from
:03:16. > :03:19.day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I
:03:20. > :03:25.knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.
:03:26. > :03:29.And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as
:03:30. > :03:34.to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not
:03:35. > :03:39.will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the
:03:40. > :03:43.Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can
:03:44. > :03:50.say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under
:03:51. > :03:55.statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This
:03:56. > :03:58.is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy
:03:59. > :04:05.of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will
:04:06. > :04:11.keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung
:04:12. > :04:16.the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like
:04:17. > :04:20.his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the
:04:21. > :04:26.report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in
:04:27. > :04:30.Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as
:04:31. > :04:36.deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len
:04:37. > :04:42.McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out
:04:43. > :04:46.the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a
:04:47. > :04:51.petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the
:04:52. > :04:55.Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come
:04:56. > :04:59.under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance
:05:00. > :05:05.demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of
:05:06. > :05:12.a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy
:05:13. > :05:16.the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems
:05:17. > :05:22.to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in
:05:23. > :05:27.deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him
:05:28. > :05:32.as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of
:05:33. > :05:39.labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend
:05:40. > :05:45.of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any
:05:46. > :05:55.wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len
:05:56. > :06:00.McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is
:06:01. > :06:08.in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion
:06:09. > :06:15.trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved
:06:16. > :06:20.in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing
:06:21. > :06:25.new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in
:06:26. > :06:29.the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had
:06:30. > :06:33.done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in
:06:34. > :06:39.Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says
:06:40. > :06:45.you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to
:06:46. > :06:48.fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you
:06:49. > :06:54.thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the
:06:55. > :07:01.Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then
:07:02. > :07:05.instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and
:07:06. > :07:10.during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened
:07:11. > :07:15.and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I
:07:16. > :07:20.was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent
:07:21. > :07:25.enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing
:07:26. > :07:29.because the people who originally complained changed their evidence
:07:30. > :07:34.and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to
:07:35. > :07:41.rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.
:07:42. > :07:48.We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that
:07:49. > :07:55.all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting
:07:56. > :08:00.the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are
:08:01. > :08:08.allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were
:08:09. > :08:12.put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they
:08:13. > :08:17.doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations
:08:18. > :08:23.that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea
:08:24. > :08:27.that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families
:08:28. > :08:36.has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They
:08:37. > :08:41.clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved
:08:42. > :08:47.in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.
:08:48. > :08:52.Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they
:08:53. > :09:00.are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position
:09:01. > :09:08.is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw
:09:09. > :09:15.their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his
:09:16. > :09:19.family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full
:09:20. > :09:27.weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to
:09:28. > :09:33.Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an
:09:34. > :09:38.independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:09:39. > :09:44.office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,
:09:45. > :09:48.the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks
:09:49. > :09:56.for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since
:09:57. > :10:06.when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to
:10:07. > :10:13.the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and
:10:14. > :10:17.it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making
:10:18. > :10:24.decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift
:10:25. > :10:33.back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent
:10:34. > :10:37.protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was
:10:38. > :10:43.not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling
:10:44. > :10:51.everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had
:10:52. > :10:58.loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to
:10:59. > :11:05.join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the
:11:06. > :11:11.Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going
:11:12. > :11:15.to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were
:11:16. > :11:22.loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the
:11:23. > :11:29.Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have
:11:30. > :11:34.used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at
:11:35. > :11:40.people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to
:11:41. > :11:46.look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an
:11:47. > :11:50.absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the
:11:51. > :11:58.21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the
:11:59. > :12:02.wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever
:12:03. > :12:10.it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk
:12:11. > :12:19.constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your
:12:20. > :12:25.opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con
:12:26. > :12:33.trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your
:12:34. > :12:37.legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of
:12:38. > :12:43.trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband
:12:44. > :12:46.wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way
:12:47. > :12:53.ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company
:12:54. > :12:58.started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,
:12:59. > :13:03.that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called
:13:04. > :13:09.INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring
:13:10. > :13:16.Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to
:13:17. > :13:23.a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who
:13:24. > :13:29.says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it
:13:30. > :13:34.in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make
:13:35. > :13:38.that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You
:13:39. > :13:45.instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what
:13:46. > :13:51.Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the
:13:52. > :13:57.petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due
:13:58. > :14:03.introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was
:14:04. > :14:07.being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost
:14:08. > :14:13.Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was
:14:14. > :14:18.saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and
:14:19. > :14:26.humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len
:14:27. > :14:32.McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with
:14:33. > :14:36.INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop
:14:37. > :14:40.stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns
:14:41. > :14:48.and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has
:14:49. > :14:54.condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have
:14:55. > :14:58.you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour
:14:59. > :15:04.Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested
:15:05. > :15:08.in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the
:15:09. > :15:16.requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last
:15:17. > :15:19.Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will
:15:20. > :15:25.continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they
:15:26. > :15:31.are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.
:15:32. > :15:37.You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.
:15:38. > :15:43.We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company
:15:44. > :15:47.to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking
:15:48. > :15:52.unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive
:15:53. > :16:00.industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all
:16:01. > :16:03.Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to
:16:04. > :16:09.implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is
:16:10. > :16:12.what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our
:16:13. > :16:19.members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not
:16:20. > :16:23.be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as
:16:24. > :16:37.disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My
:16:38. > :16:41.membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are
:16:42. > :16:45.executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me
:16:46. > :16:50.standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I
:16:51. > :17:04.will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us
:17:05. > :17:06.by the media. "A country ready to welcome your
:17:07. > :17:09.investment which values your friendship and will never exclude
:17:10. > :17:12.anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The
:17:13. > :17:15.words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which
:17:16. > :17:18.was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm
:17:19. > :17:21.words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a
:17:22. > :17:24.spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the
:17:25. > :17:27.wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of
:17:28. > :17:29.some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the
:17:30. > :17:39.Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.
:17:40. > :17:44.First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east
:17:45. > :17:49.London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,
:17:50. > :17:54.one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it
:17:55. > :17:58.frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the
:17:59. > :18:02.British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,
:18:03. > :18:06.traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate
:18:07. > :18:10.to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one
:18:11. > :18:19.question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to
:18:20. > :18:23.address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront
:18:24. > :18:28.radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of
:18:29. > :18:37.sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not
:18:38. > :18:44.nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young
:18:45. > :18:47.Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using
:18:48. > :18:55.Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this
:18:56. > :19:02.work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has
:19:03. > :19:12.been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public
:19:13. > :19:15.to please people but in private something very different is being
:19:16. > :19:21.said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,
:19:22. > :19:30.it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for
:19:31. > :19:34.radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's
:19:35. > :19:40.faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if
:19:41. > :19:48.rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some
:19:49. > :19:54.sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,
:19:55. > :19:59.and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and
:20:00. > :20:04.it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially
:20:05. > :20:10.when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to
:20:11. > :20:13.talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There
:20:14. > :20:20.is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the
:20:21. > :20:25.one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist
:20:26. > :20:37.perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of
:20:38. > :20:52.minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public
:20:53. > :21:03.places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy
:21:04. > :21:07.of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and
:21:08. > :21:10.that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the
:21:11. > :21:15.preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council
:21:16. > :21:19.of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating
:21:20. > :21:26.sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved
:21:27. > :21:32.predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for
:21:33. > :21:39.some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We
:21:40. > :21:46.need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the
:21:47. > :21:50.normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and
:21:51. > :21:57.chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that
:21:58. > :22:03.actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible
:22:04. > :22:09.with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to
:22:10. > :22:13.women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures
:22:14. > :22:17.of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain
:22:18. > :22:26.itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they
:22:27. > :22:34.are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to
:22:35. > :22:35.are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are
:22:36. > :22:39.experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages
:22:40. > :22:43.what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not
:22:44. > :22:48.being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance
:22:49. > :22:50.rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been
:22:51. > :22:55.found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in
:22:56. > :23:02.this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what
:23:03. > :23:08.are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem
:23:09. > :23:12.of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be
:23:13. > :23:16.exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many
:23:17. > :23:21.Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a
:23:22. > :23:29.big cultural gap will exist between the two.
:23:30. > :23:31.And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq
:23:32. > :23:40.Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the
:23:41. > :23:47.veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible
:23:48. > :23:55.to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory
:23:56. > :23:58.requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting
:23:59. > :24:12.themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst
:24:13. > :24:15.wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life
:24:16. > :24:19.successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red
:24:20. > :24:26.herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim
:24:27. > :24:35.girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point
:24:36. > :24:40.of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the
:24:41. > :24:48.public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones
:24:49. > :24:56.who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a
:24:57. > :25:03.practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour
:25:04. > :25:08.it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women
:25:09. > :25:13.should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the
:25:14. > :25:18.veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is
:25:19. > :25:25.important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free
:25:26. > :25:28.choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their
:25:29. > :25:34.free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it
:25:35. > :25:39.helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away
:25:40. > :25:45.from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad
:25:46. > :25:49.thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim
:25:50. > :25:55.preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim
:25:56. > :26:01.women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim
:26:02. > :26:08.women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being
:26:09. > :26:14.forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and
:26:15. > :26:19.what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,
:26:20. > :26:24.very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is
:26:25. > :26:30.wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other
:26:31. > :26:33.Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider
:26:34. > :26:44.that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any
:26:45. > :26:47.Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an
:26:48. > :26:53.organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not
:26:54. > :27:00.coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by
:27:01. > :27:04.individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that
:27:05. > :27:09.would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would
:27:10. > :27:21.not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires
:27:22. > :27:29.children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you
:27:30. > :27:37.agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have
:27:38. > :27:46.just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a
:27:47. > :27:52.black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on
:27:53. > :28:03.anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.
:28:04. > :28:10.I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think
:28:11. > :28:15.it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would
:28:16. > :28:27.wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some
:28:28. > :28:33.muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the
:28:34. > :28:37.start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I
:28:38. > :28:46.would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic
:28:47. > :28:51.girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the
:28:52. > :29:00.top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.
:29:01. > :29:04.But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those
:29:05. > :29:12.girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I
:29:13. > :29:18.am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.
:29:19. > :29:30.There is a very conservative movement from the continent on
:29:31. > :29:34.Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their
:29:35. > :29:41.website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged
:29:42. > :29:46.to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should
:29:47. > :29:51.not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you
:29:52. > :29:56.think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They
:29:57. > :30:05.are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree
:30:06. > :30:13.with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is
:30:14. > :30:18.what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is
:30:19. > :30:41.quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you
:30:42. > :30:44.agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back
:30:45. > :30:50.to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.
:30:51. > :30:58.This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.
:30:59. > :31:05.Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday
:31:06. > :31:16.mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your
:31:17. > :31:26.counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they
:31:27. > :31:31.have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is
:31:32. > :31:37.advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the
:31:38. > :31:43.Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The
:31:44. > :31:50.Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots
:31:51. > :31:58.of common issues to create a community which positively
:31:59. > :32:06.integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate
:32:07. > :32:08.for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications
:32:09. > :32:17.available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your
:32:18. > :32:26.organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall
:32:27. > :32:37.under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British
:32:38. > :32:42.mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of
:32:43. > :32:48.prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to
:32:49. > :32:54.prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very
:32:55. > :33:03.beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?
:33:04. > :33:13.Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council
:33:14. > :33:17.have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious
:33:18. > :33:25.stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at
:33:26. > :33:41.this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.
:33:42. > :33:54.That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we
:33:55. > :33:59.live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they
:34:00. > :34:04.have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You
:34:05. > :34:11.would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like
:34:12. > :34:19.that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation
:34:20. > :34:22.to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s
:34:23. > :34:30.rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law
:34:31. > :34:38.of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger
:34:39. > :34:46.issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul
:34:47. > :34:56.declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it
:34:57. > :35:05.or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media
:35:06. > :35:11.mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself
:35:12. > :35:19.from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration
:35:20. > :35:28.because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign
:35:29. > :35:34.it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the
:35:35. > :35:44.declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there
:35:45. > :35:51.was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not
:35:52. > :35:55.what was meant by the declaration. When did you decide so is the
:35:56. > :36:05.yourself from the declaration? From day one. We never signed it. The
:36:06. > :36:09.East London Mosque which you are personally closely associated with
:36:10. > :36:21.is the venue for a number of extremist speakers, who espoused
:36:22. > :36:25.extremist positions. In 2009 the mosque posted a video and
:36:26. > :36:30.presentation by somebody described by the UN Security Council as an
:36:31. > :36:35.Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another speaker described Christians and
:36:36. > :36:39.Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad is supporter of the Taliban there.
:36:40. > :36:48.Why do you do nothing to stop extremists like that at this mask
:36:49. > :36:53.with which you are associated with? We do not have anything to do with
:36:54. > :36:58.any rhetoric that condones or supported violence. We issue
:36:59. > :37:03.guidelines and the mosque itself is a registered charity which has its
:37:04. > :37:07.own rules and regulations, but it is a very large mosques and lots of
:37:08. > :37:13.organisations book and come and told their gatherings. We rent out the
:37:14. > :37:26.facilities. You were prepared to speak alongside a man who saluted
:37:27. > :37:31.suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy. Why would you
:37:32. > :37:35.share a platform like that? I did not share a platform like that.
:37:36. > :37:44.Different organisations come and have conferences here. Why did you
:37:45. > :37:52.agree? I did not agree with that. I completely reject that. When you add
:37:53. > :37:58.all this up the attitude to women, the alliance with the most
:37:59. > :38:02.fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the toleration of intolerant views, a
:38:03. > :38:07.willingness for you to be counted among them, why should anybody of
:38:08. > :38:16.goodwill, either a Muslim or a non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good
:38:17. > :38:23.force? It is an organisation which embraces different organisations
:38:24. > :38:28.which are affiliated in the Muslim community. You have taken snippets
:38:29. > :38:33.of certain individual views which are not the views of our affiliates.
:38:34. > :38:38.It would be unfair to represent our view based on those which you have
:38:39. > :38:46.highlighted in this programme. The work that we do is quite clear and
:38:47. > :38:52.is on our website. They are all associated with you, but we will
:38:53. > :38:53.have to leave it there. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:38:54. > :38:57.up: I will be talking to joke Scots in Corby losing out on the
:38:58. > :39:17.vote for Scottish Hello and welcome to your local part
:39:18. > :39:23.of the programme. Coming up. 62.
:39:24. > :39:34.I stand for a full house at Holyrood but not one collected by Corby Scots
:39:35. > :39:39.living South of the border. `` EYES DOWN.
:39:40. > :39:43.I have invited government ministers to come here and listen to people 's
:39:44. > :39:48.views. The EU ruling that could lead to more people living here.
:39:49. > :39:54.We have got to sort out the EU itself. As the deed is finally done,
:39:55. > :40:01.or is it? Norfolk fights for a new incinerator, but this man has the
:40:02. > :40:06.final say. I am joined by the South and fit MP
:40:07. > :40:10.Richard Bacon and former MP for Northampton North Sally Keble,
:40:11. > :40:17.fighting the seat again for Labour this time. Starting with the story
:40:18. > :40:24.of the week. The big storm. Let's look at the pictures. This is the
:40:25. > :40:29.aftermath of the 80 mph winds. This was blown over in Suffolk, thousands
:40:30. > :40:37.of train travel is faced disruption, more than 200 trees obstructing the
:40:38. > :40:40.lines were removed. 100,000 homes in the East had no electricity at one
:40:41. > :40:46.stage, several thousand people had no power for days. We had three
:40:47. > :40:51.times the staffing levels, we were prepared for that, we were prepared
:40:52. > :40:56.over the weekend. We were as ready as we could be but the scale of
:40:57. > :41:01.those wins over such a short period meant regrettably some customers
:41:02. > :41:08.could not get through and I am sorry. `` winds. But we did
:41:09. > :41:12.everything we could do. Your fellow East MP is contacted as
:41:13. > :41:15.saying that when she contacted networks on Monday, they did not
:41:16. > :41:22.have a clue which areas were without power, were we prepared well enough?
:41:23. > :41:27.People like the Fire and emergency planning people were prepared but
:41:28. > :41:31.the power companies were not. To say we did everything we possibly could
:41:32. > :41:36.when people could not through on the phone and they did not have the
:41:37. > :41:40.information about power outages is not good enough. Resilience means
:41:41. > :41:45.coping in extreme circumstances and having a contingency plan to allow
:41:46. > :41:50.you to make extra stuff available at short notice.
:41:51. > :41:55.Did the authorities do as much as they could? Had emergency planning
:41:56. > :42:02.committees but it did not seem there were functioning well enough. ``
:42:03. > :42:05.they had. The local authority probably did
:42:06. > :42:09.quite well but there was an issue with power companies. For them to
:42:10. > :42:15.save their were not warned was a nonsense because there was a lot of
:42:16. > :42:19.warning about a storm. They did say they were warned and
:42:20. > :42:26.they put as many staff as they could available at the time out but it was
:42:27. > :42:28.a question of information. They put the charges up, they are making
:42:29. > :42:35.substantial profits and people are feeling the pinch because they are
:42:36. > :42:39.paying fuel prices, so they should see continuity of service. Climatic
:42:40. > :42:42.conditions are not going to get easier and the East of England is
:42:43. > :42:47.under pressure from these changes, so the power companies have do
:42:48. > :42:52.improve, a deeply as they increase their prices.
:42:53. > :42:55.`` particularly. In less than a year, we will know if Scotland has
:42:56. > :43:02.voted for independence. This weekend, Home Secretary to reason
:43:03. > :43:08.may raise concerns an independent Scotland would harm national
:43:09. > :43:14.security, but who should get a say? `` Theresa May. If you live South of
:43:15. > :43:20.the border, it you do not get a say, and that is a problem for many
:43:21. > :43:26.people living in Corby. Sometimes, it you get the result you want. But
:43:27. > :43:30.on the future of Scotland 's relationship with the UK, the Scots
:43:31. > :43:35.will have no more influence than what they do on which numbers come
:43:36. > :43:39.up on the bingo. Many people here were born in
:43:40. > :43:44.Scotland or their parents were but they will not get a vote in the
:43:45. > :43:47.referendum on Scottish independence. The Conservative are counsellor here
:43:48. > :43:57.thanks they showed, what do people here think so? `` they should. I
:43:58. > :44:01.think they are entitled to vote the same as anybody else. Do you
:44:02. > :44:11.identify more as a resident of Corby than a Scot? Definitely not. Still
:44:12. > :44:18.proud of the heritage? Definitely, you never lose that and if you do,
:44:19. > :44:25.you are not a true Scot! You were born in Scotland, would you like a
:44:26. > :44:31.say in the referendum? Yes. Which way it will go, I do not know. The
:44:32. > :44:37.issue affects many in this region, are more 77,000 Scottish born people
:44:38. > :44:42.in the East of England. Corby is home to more than 7,000. It is known
:44:43. > :44:47.as little Scotland because they represent over 12% of the
:44:48. > :44:50.population, making it one of the largest Scottish communities in
:44:51. > :44:55.England. I have invited to Scotland to talk
:44:56. > :44:59.about the Corby question, which is how you make sure the voices of
:45:00. > :45:02.people in England, especially the Scottish with strong connections to
:45:03. > :45:07.Scotland, or heard in the independence debate. I look forward
:45:08. > :45:11.to going there and I am happy to take part. And I also want people to
:45:12. > :45:15.come to Corby so I have invited government ministers and Alistair
:45:16. > :45:22.Darling to come to listen to local people. Scottish families started
:45:23. > :45:25.coming here in the 1930s with the development of the iron and steel
:45:26. > :45:31.works. A found jobs, and even after the factories closed, many remained
:45:32. > :45:37.here. But why would they care whether Scotland stays part of the
:45:38. > :45:39.UK or not? It will be more complicated to maintain some
:45:40. > :45:43.business links and family connections because travel would
:45:44. > :45:47.become more complex, they might have a different currency, so there are
:45:48. > :45:52.genuine issues about the relationship between England and
:45:53. > :45:57.Scotland and friends and families in Scotland if they go independent. I
:45:58. > :46:01.am sure we can maintain those but I hope we can keep England and
:46:02. > :46:06.Scotland together. Whether Scotland decides to go it alone or not, these
:46:07. > :46:11.people remain proud of their heritage. They may not affect the
:46:12. > :46:16.numbers in the referendum, but many still want their voices to be heard.
:46:17. > :46:21.I spoke to Scottish National Party member of the Scottish Parliament
:46:22. > :46:26.Stuart Macmillan and I asked him why Scots in Corby will not get a vote.
:46:27. > :46:29.The referendum next year is about the people who live and work in
:46:30. > :46:35.Scotland who will be entitled to vote in the referendum. But there
:46:36. > :46:39.are many `` many English people living and working in Scotland who
:46:40. > :46:46.got a say. You are speaking to one of them, I was then `` I was born in
:46:47. > :46:50.Barrow in Furness, but I grew up in Scotland. Scotland is my home and I
:46:51. > :46:54.live here and I work here and I am entitled to a vote. And everyone
:46:55. > :47:02.else who lives and works in Scotland will be. Who has made the decision
:47:03. > :47:07.it cannot be based upon those people who would be applicable for a
:47:08. > :47:12.Scottish passport? The section 30 order, the Edinburgh agreement
:47:13. > :47:16.signed between the Scottish and UK government, that allowed for the
:47:17. > :47:22.referendum to be decided by the people of Scotland and the
:47:23. > :47:26.Parliament in Scotland. So the referendum is being made in Scotland
:47:27. > :47:31.for people who live and work in Scotland. So the referendum will be
:47:32. > :47:36.about everyone who stays here, we will have that entitlement to a
:47:37. > :47:42.vote. But is that fair? These people in Corby feel very Scottish. I have
:47:43. > :47:49.family in Coventry and I had this discussion with them and they
:47:50. > :47:54.understand and agree with the position. They were not sure about
:47:55. > :47:58.it initially, but they understand it and agree with it because their
:47:59. > :48:04.lives are not in Scotland. They left Scotland some years ago and they
:48:05. > :48:09.live in commentary and have done longer than in Scotland. What about
:48:10. > :48:13.those people in Corby who do not agree with the decision and
:48:14. > :48:18.understand it? But they do not live and work in Scotland. The referendum
:48:19. > :48:21.is about the decision for the people of Scotland who do live and work
:48:22. > :48:27.here about what type of Scotland they want to live in. And the
:48:28. > :48:33.referendum will provide that opportunity. There are many people
:48:34. > :48:41.who do live and work elsewhere outside of Scotland, but their home
:48:42. > :48:47.is not Scotland any more. Do you have any sympathy for them, it is
:48:48. > :48:55.12,000 people? It is not about sympathy, it is about where people
:48:56. > :48:58.live and work. That is a key issue. And another part of the referendum
:48:59. > :49:05.and those entitled to vote next year, apart from one addition, which
:49:06. > :49:09.is reducing the age of voting to 16 and 17`year`olds, those who will
:49:10. > :49:14.vote at the same people who will vote in a Scottish parliamentary
:49:15. > :49:18.election and at the local authority elections in Scotland. So there is
:49:19. > :49:24.no difference in terms of who can and cannot vote, apart from 16 and
:49:25. > :49:28.17`year`olds. The MP for Corby wants his constituents who believe
:49:29. > :49:33.themselves to be Scottish, they have a strong link with Scotland, he
:49:34. > :49:39.wants them to feel engaged in the debate. So will you speak to them? I
:49:40. > :49:46.will happily speak to anyone about the referendum and about the voting
:49:47. > :49:50.for next year. But at the same time, I would encourage the MP for Corby
:49:51. > :49:54.to speak to his Labour colleagues in the Scottish Parliament who actually
:49:55. > :49:59.agreed with this help when they voted it through on June the 27th
:50:00. > :50:05.this year. But what about the SNP coming to Corby to speak to these
:50:06. > :50:12.residents? There is no plan to do that. The SNP
:50:13. > :50:16.have been very clear about who should be entitled to the vote next
:50:17. > :50:21.year. We have been clear from the outset. There is no plan to go and
:50:22. > :50:26.talk to people outside of Scotland about whether they can or cannot be
:50:27. > :50:31.allowed to vote. It is our priority over the next 12 months to encourage
:50:32. > :50:37.as many people in Scotland to vote yes in the referendum.
:50:38. > :50:43.Thank you for joining us. Sally Keble, you have a family member with
:50:44. > :50:49.Scottish roots, do they feel the same as these people in Corby? It is
:50:50. > :50:53.my wonderful mother, who is a Scottish as could be and she agrees
:50:54. > :51:02.that because she is a Scot, she should be entitled to a say. What do
:51:03. > :51:07.you think? We had a chat and she said she recognised the difficulties
:51:08. > :51:10.in trying to organise a vote. But she said she was born in Scotland
:51:11. > :51:19.and brought up in Scotland. What this shows is the fact that the UK
:51:20. > :51:27.is actually, there is a high level of integration and I think we heard
:51:28. > :51:33.some of that in the discussion. But she definitely would agree with the
:51:34. > :51:39.people in Corby, she wants her say. If you qualify for a Scottish
:51:40. > :51:45.passport, should you get a vote? There is a question of, who are the
:51:46. > :51:49.people of Scotland, people who live and work there or people who feel
:51:50. > :51:54.Scottish? It is not fair, you might say, but as we were all told when we
:51:55. > :51:58.were children, life is not fair. You have to have a way of deciding. You
:51:59. > :52:04.could include other people in other parts of the UK with Scottish
:52:05. > :52:08.ancestry. My predecessor was a Scot, he still lives in Norfolk. Scots
:52:09. > :52:10.have been coming to Norfolk for hundreds of years because of the
:52:11. > :52:17.agriculture and bringing their skills, and Thomas Hardy was talking
:52:18. > :52:20.about the same in the West Country. But you could end up giving all
:52:21. > :52:25.English people a vote and plenty want a vote. Polls show consistently
:52:26. > :52:31.there are more English people who favour Scottish independence than
:52:32. > :52:37.Scots. Is this a fair way to draw the line?
:52:38. > :52:45.It is a rough and ready way, what there is a precedent for people to
:52:46. > :52:50.have votes. You could probably enfranchise people who were born in
:52:51. > :52:54.Scotland and have spent part of their lives and established some
:52:55. > :53:01.connection, but it would be difficult. It would be difficult. We
:53:02. > :53:06.do allow expats to vote in the UK elections, but that is for the whole
:53:07. > :53:10.of the UK. But these people in Corby, if I go to Scotland, they
:53:11. > :53:18.might have to deal with Border Control and all sorts. All the other
:53:19. > :53:25.one, travel is not going to get more difficult! `` pull. Do we seriously
:53:26. > :53:29.think there will be passport checks on the border? There are plenty of
:53:30. > :53:36.parts of Europe there are no passport checks, from France to
:53:37. > :53:40.Germany, Luxembourg to Belgium. What happens for people who live in
:53:41. > :53:46.Scotland, who are English, and suddenly find they have to decide
:53:47. > :53:52.about passports? They have got a passport. They will carry on having
:53:53. > :53:58.one. We will talk about it nearer the time of the vote.
:53:59. > :54:05.This is a question, how many countries make up the European
:54:06. > :54:11.Union? It is 28. But it could be as many as 33. Next week, MPs will
:54:12. > :54:16.debate the Private Members' Bill calling for an in out referendum on
:54:17. > :54:19.Europe, but while we are talking about leaving the EU, there is no
:54:20. > :54:25.shortage of countries wanting to join up. In the run`up to the
:54:26. > :54:28.European elections next year, it is on the minds of MPs in Brussels,
:54:29. > :54:32.with several in our region playing a major role in the debate.
:54:33. > :54:39.Richard Howitt has been put in charge of both `` of overseeing the
:54:40. > :54:44.application by Macedonia. The former Yugoslav states lies above Greece
:54:45. > :54:51.and has a population of 2 million, a third of whom live alone the poverty
:54:52. > :54:57.line `` state. We have companies that are today trading with
:54:58. > :55:02.Macedonia. It is an extremely important part of the economy, it is
:55:03. > :55:06.a fragile small country, at the benefit is already coming back. How
:55:07. > :55:12.many more countries could be benefiting in that way if they were
:55:13. > :55:19.to start a gauche Asians? Dash`mac negotiations. There is a lot of
:55:20. > :55:27.unease about the EU, why do we need more countries in the EU? Why do we
:55:28. > :55:32.need more trade for the prosperity of businesses, we do not have to
:55:33. > :55:37.send the planes to stop the wars in places like Kosovo. How can we have
:55:38. > :55:41.more affected orders to strop Hoople trafficking illegal immigration and
:55:42. > :55:49.drugs, we do that by making countries more like ourselves. ``
:55:50. > :55:57.drug`trafficking `` people trafficking. But many believe the EU
:55:58. > :55:59.is large enough. We welcome the principle of enlargement. We want
:56:00. > :56:06.greater stability and economic progress and peace across Europe.
:56:07. > :56:12.But before we get onto and lodging the EU any more, we have to sort out
:56:13. > :56:17.the EU itself `` and lodging. We want to bring about great change
:56:18. > :56:22.before we went in more countries. These are very poor countries, their
:56:23. > :56:30.rock 100 million population who would be entitled to come to the
:56:31. > :56:33.rest of Europe, including the UK. `` there are 100 million. And the cost
:56:34. > :56:39.will be 14 billion, that is extraordinary, to bring these poor
:56:40. > :56:44.countries into Europe. People might be surprised how much
:56:45. > :56:51.it costs to bring countries into Europe, is it worth it? There are
:56:52. > :56:57.security issues about the Balkans and in the log `` in the longer
:56:58. > :57:01.term, having more stability with the Balkans and countries like Turkey,
:57:02. > :57:06.but if you look at Macedonia, a population of 2 million, 20 million
:57:07. > :57:11.unemployed across Europe, that is the problem. And understandably in
:57:12. > :57:14.the East of England, where there has been a history of people coming over
:57:15. > :57:20.to get work any seasonal basis, you have to deal with the employment
:57:21. > :57:30.issues and deal with those so that people do not feel threatened. We
:57:31. > :57:35.need this immigration, don't we? They contribute and drive the
:57:36. > :57:41.economy. There is no shortage of immigration and people coming here
:57:42. > :57:46.to work. We need to make these countries more like us, that is the
:57:47. > :57:51.problem with the EU. It is possible they do not want to become like us
:57:52. > :57:56.and they have been Macedonia or Croatia, or whatever it is. And we
:57:57. > :58:02.should not be involved in, we should be creating a political structure
:58:03. > :58:06.making everybody like everyone else. You do not need yet another layer of
:58:07. > :58:10.government to have trade, you just need people to buy and sell goods.
:58:11. > :58:15.We have had more immigration in the East than anywhere else in the UK at
:58:16. > :58:22.times and that has put a strain on public services. I agree, and with
:58:23. > :58:27.trade, integration does help. That is really important and that is an
:58:28. > :58:35.important part of the issue. But I agree that you have two look
:58:36. > :58:39.seriously `` you have to look seriously at having proper attention
:58:40. > :58:45.paid to services and the pressure around Europe. As part of looking at
:58:46. > :58:51.how to create a more secure and successful Europe. This is about
:58:52. > :58:56.keeping the bicycle moving because if it stops, it will fall off. The
:58:57. > :59:00.EU has imposed a currency on many countries that has caused an
:59:01. > :59:06.economic catastrophe and is a reason many are not growing. I am in favour
:59:07. > :59:10.of the single market and I spent a lot of time in Brussels as a
:59:11. > :59:14.journalist talking about it. They are still talking about completing
:59:15. > :59:19.it now, the French are not that interested, they are interested in
:59:20. > :59:24.what is best for them. Talking of the EU, this week, an MEP
:59:25. > :59:35.is flushed with success. It is in the round`up.
:59:36. > :59:41.Veterans of atomic tests in the 1950s had their campaign raised in
:59:42. > :59:46.Parliament this week. The science was unknown and the risks were on
:59:47. > :59:53.quantifiable, but the costs to veterans and their descendants is
:59:54. > :59:57.very severe indeed. Young people demonstrated outside County Hall in
:59:58. > :00:03.Essex at protest of cup axe that could mean the axing of youth clubs
:00:04. > :00:07.and the loss of 170 jobs Norfolk has narrowly approved plans to build a
:00:08. > :00:11.waste incinerator in Kings Lynn, although Eric Pickles has yet to
:00:12. > :00:18.make a decision, expected in the New Year, over planning permission will
:00:19. > :00:24.`` what we decided today was not to cancel a contract.
:00:25. > :00:27.Is nothing sacred? The EU has been criticised for poking its nose in
:00:28. > :00:34.where it is not wanted after publishing a 60 page report on
:00:35. > :00:42.toilets. This MEP would have pushed it down the pan.
:00:43. > :00:47.Let's talk about this incinerator. Is the story over? Will the
:00:48. > :00:56.Secretary of State turned down planning permission? I do not know
:00:57. > :01:01.it 's mind on this `` Jean`Eric Vergne pickle 's mind on this. A lot
:01:02. > :01:10.of people are concerned about the penalties. `` Mr pickle 's mind on
:01:11. > :01:16.this. The question is, why did we write a contract with such big
:01:17. > :01:21.penalties? There has been a loss of face. There probably has, and if you
:01:22. > :01:25.build up more capacity than you need, you end up with more road
:01:26. > :01:33.journeys to get more rubbish going into an incident rate `` and
:01:34. > :01:39.incinerator. What about youth services being rest in Essex? The
:01:40. > :01:43.cuts are awful and they have come across other things that have hit
:01:44. > :01:48.young people, a troubling of tuition fees, a cut in housing rights. That
:01:49. > :01:54.has put a lot of pressure on young people at a time they cannot get
:01:55. > :01:56.jobs either. Thank you, next week, we look forward to the anniversary
:01:57. > :01:59.of the confident we will deliver that.
:02:00. > :02:15.Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's
:02:16. > :02:29.relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the
:02:30. > :02:32.Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka
:02:33. > :02:35.Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did
:02:36. > :02:38.earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey.
:02:39. > :02:43.Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:02:44. > :02:47.office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the
:02:48. > :02:51.Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative
:02:52. > :02:55.mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he
:02:56. > :03:01.should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey
:03:02. > :03:08.denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial
:03:09. > :03:12.dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side
:03:13. > :03:18.is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send
:03:19. > :03:21.its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened
:03:22. > :03:27.in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families
:03:28. > :03:30.out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset
:03:31. > :03:37.particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of
:03:38. > :03:41.things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own
:03:42. > :03:47.report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things -
:03:48. > :03:55.forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was
:03:56. > :04:08.being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the
:04:09. > :04:12.report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is
:04:13. > :04:15.something that the police are looking into so that is not
:04:16. > :04:27.something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We
:04:28. > :04:30.learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained
:04:31. > :04:35.to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour
:04:36. > :04:46.Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party
:04:47. > :04:49.and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are
:04:50. > :04:54.looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like
:04:55. > :04:56.the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil
:04:57. > :05:02.Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed
:05:03. > :05:09.Miliband has sort of tried to take on the Unite union, but it has not
:05:10. > :05:14.worked. Does then not need to be an electrifying moment for Ed Miliband?
:05:15. > :05:18.Your own paper has praised him for seeking to address the issues we
:05:19. > :05:25.have in politics and the disconnection from people. In many
:05:26. > :05:29.respects the situation in Falkirk categorises the process of further
:05:30. > :05:34.ongoing change where we are trying to establish a better relationship
:05:35. > :05:39.with individual trade union members. In parts of my constituency, some of
:05:40. > :05:45.the most deprived parts, we had people queueing round the block to
:05:46. > :05:49.vote. I do not think the issue is that people are not political, but
:05:50. > :05:54.they have never felt so far from party politics as they do now and
:05:55. > :05:59.that is why Ed Miliband announced this big chains about how we do
:06:00. > :06:02.things in the Labour Party, so we change structures in the Labour
:06:03. > :06:07.Party that were set up in the 2 th century. The reform of the way in
:06:08. > :06:12.which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us
:06:13. > :06:18.in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3
:06:19. > :06:27.million working people who ensure our public services function. At
:06:28. > :06:33.Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk
:06:34. > :06:41.Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that I'd
:06:42. > :06:48.just explained the reason. I do not think it is fair to ask people to
:06:49. > :06:52.give evidence in an enquiry on the basis of the report will be
:06:53. > :06:57.confidential and then to publish it after. But if somebody is trying to
:06:58. > :07:03.take over a Labour constituency to send an MP of their choice to our
:07:04. > :07:11.Parliament, that should not be secret, that should be public. Ed
:07:12. > :07:15.Miliband acted very decisively. That constituency party is still in
:07:16. > :07:20.special measures as I understand it. This idea that somehow the Unite
:07:21. > :07:27.union runs the Labour Party, they do not. The special measures mean
:07:28. > :07:35.according to Eric Joyce, that an ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the
:07:36. > :07:40.meeting. I am interested in the Tory suggestion that they would offer
:07:41. > :07:48.free Tory party membership to union members. I then moving onto your
:07:49. > :07:55.turf? We do not know exactly all the facts and the truth of the
:07:56. > :08:01.allegations that have been made On your point I think it is healthy the
:08:02. > :08:06.Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their
:08:07. > :08:14.rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at
:08:15. > :08:20.Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of
:08:21. > :08:26.their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to
:08:27. > :08:30.our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will
:08:31. > :08:36.find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets
:08:37. > :08:42.tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working
:08:43. > :08:47.in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port
:08:48. > :08:52.and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets
:08:53. > :08:58.overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from
:08:59. > :09:03.unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite
:09:04. > :09:07.know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears
:09:08. > :09:12.used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private
:09:13. > :09:18.sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was
:09:19. > :09:22.born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of
:09:23. > :09:29.their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they
:09:30. > :09:37.can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But
:09:38. > :09:42.there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is
:09:43. > :09:47.right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for
:09:48. > :09:53.their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their
:09:54. > :09:58.aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their
:09:59. > :10:05.workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the
:10:06. > :10:09.protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has
:10:10. > :10:17.said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback.
:10:18. > :10:21.He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the
:10:22. > :10:26.radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that
:10:27. > :10:31.was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend
:10:32. > :10:36.to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like
:10:37. > :10:44.land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing
:10:45. > :10:48.the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.
:10:49. > :10:53.million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The
:10:54. > :10:58.business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances
:10:59. > :11:04.back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being
:11:05. > :11:09.used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater
:11:10. > :11:17.variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro
:11:18. > :11:24.enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a
:11:25. > :11:28.living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but
:11:29. > :11:34.there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business
:11:35. > :11:40.because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is
:11:41. > :11:47.good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are
:11:48. > :11:51.not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax
:11:52. > :12:00.credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know
:12:01. > :12:10.after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living
:12:11. > :12:14.wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and
:12:15. > :12:23.we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party
:12:24. > :12:37.pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a
:12:38. > :12:43.living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage.
:12:44. > :12:49.What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle
:12:50. > :12:56.as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one
:12:57. > :13:00.of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this
:13:01. > :13:04.soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working
:13:05. > :13:15.together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce.
:13:16. > :13:24.That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be
:13:25. > :13:28.here again next weekend at 12:2 pm after the Remembrance Day service at
:13:29. > :13:58.the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:13:59. > :14:02.Planet Earth - it's unique. It has life.
:14:03. > :14:10.To understand why, we're going to build a planet...up there.
:14:11. > :14:13.There were the objects that were making the Earth.
:14:14. > :14:16.We're now weightless. That's how our planet started.
:14:17. > :14:19.Your arms are a little bit long Is that as small as they go?
:14:20. > :14:23.This is like every shopping trip I've ever been on.