:00:38. > :00:44.The morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First, some Sunday
:00:45. > :00:49.morning cheer, if you are an MP, that is. You are set to get an 11%
:00:50. > :00:55.pay rise. The Chancellor has gone from zero to hero for some, who
:00:56. > :01:00.credit him for turning the economy around. We will be taking a fine
:01:01. > :01:05.tooth comb to his Autumn Statement. Should this man get a pay rise?
:01:06. > :01:11.Complete denial about the central facts... And 11% pay rise for Ed
:01:12. > :01:15.Balls? He was certainly working hard to be heard last Thursday. We will
:01:16. > :01:28.be reviewing his performance. What about this man? We will be joined by
:01:29. > :01:49.With me, three scruffy eternal students. They would celebrate if
:01:50. > :01:52.they achieved a C+. But they are all we could afford and there will be no
:01:53. > :01:55.pay rise for them. They will be glued to an electronic device
:01:56. > :02:01.throughout the programme and if we are lucky they might stop there
:02:02. > :02:06.internet shopping and tweet something intelligent. But don't
:02:07. > :02:10.hold your breath. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last
:02:11. > :02:13.week, storms were battering Britain, the East Coast was hit by the worst
:02:14. > :02:17.tidal surge in more than a century, thousands of people had to be
:02:18. > :02:22.evacuated and Nelson Mandela died. The downed the news agenda was the
:02:23. > :02:28.small matter of George Osborne's Autumn Statement. His giveaways, his
:02:29. > :02:37.takeaways and his first opportunity to announce some economic cheer.
:02:38. > :02:48.It might be winter outside, but in the studios it is awesome. Autumn
:02:49. > :02:51.Statement time. -- autumn. This is a moment of TV history. Normally when
:02:52. > :02:54.the Chancellor delivers these statements, he has to say the
:02:55. > :02:59.economy is actually a lot worse than everyone predicted. This time, he
:03:00. > :03:00.can stand up and say the economy is better than everybody predicted. A
:03:01. > :03:09.lot better. Britain is currently growing faster
:03:10. > :03:16.than any other major advanced economy. Faster than France, which
:03:17. > :03:22.is contracting, faster than Germany, faster even than America. At this
:03:23. > :03:26.Autumn Statement last year, there were repeated predictions that
:03:27. > :03:30.borrowing would go up. Instead, borrowing is down, and down
:03:31. > :03:33.significantly more than forecast. But George Osborne said the good
:03:34. > :03:40.numbers still mean more tough decisions. We will not give up in
:03:41. > :03:44.giving in our country's debts. We will not spend the money from lower
:03:45. > :03:51.borrowing. We will not squander the harder and games of the British
:03:52. > :03:55.people. -- hard earned gains. In other news, further cuts to
:03:56. > :04:00.government departments. The state pension age will increase in the
:04:01. > :04:06.2040s, affecting people in their 40s now. There were some goodies, like
:04:07. > :04:09.discounted business rates for small businesses, free school meals for
:04:10. > :04:14.infants, favoured by the Lib Dems, and those marriage tax breaks below
:04:15. > :04:16.that by the Tories. But, as with all big fiscal events, it takes a while
:04:17. > :04:25.for the details to sink in. The marriage tax allowance is a
:04:26. > :04:28.long-standing commitment that he could not abandon. It does help
:04:29. > :04:33.those families were only one goes out to work. It does not go to
:04:34. > :04:38.higher rate taxpayers, I don't think. Perhaps it does, I can't
:04:39. > :04:43.remember. It makes me feel guilty, I am taking them very seriously,
:04:44. > :04:46.but... Shall I give you them? There is the Autumn Statement. Have that,
:04:47. > :04:50.a free gift from the Sunday Politics. Is there no limit to the
:04:51. > :05:00.generosity of the BBC? In the meantime, Twitter was awash
:05:01. > :05:04.with unflattering pictures of a red-faced Ed Balls giving his
:05:05. > :05:10.response. Some pictures were more than flattering than others. Is Ed
:05:11. > :05:14.Balls OK? Should we be worrying about him? He looks very stressed.
:05:15. > :05:18.There is nothing to worry about in terms of Ed balls and his analysis.
:05:19. > :05:26.He and Ed Miliband have been setting the pace in terms of the focus on
:05:27. > :05:29.the living standards crisis. It was very telling that there was not a
:05:30. > :05:35.mention of living standards last time, we got 12 mentions this time.
:05:36. > :05:41.Never mind what he was saying, by now everybody has a copy of the
:05:42. > :05:44.all-important paperwork. Time to hand over to number cruncher
:05:45. > :05:49.extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of
:05:50. > :05:52.course it means that things are significantly better this year and
:05:53. > :05:55.next than we thought they would be just nine months ago. That has got
:05:56. > :05:59.to be good news. But it is also worth looking at the growth figures
:06:00. > :06:08.a few years out. They have been revised down a little bit. The
:06:09. > :06:11.reason is, the view of the office of budget response ability is that the
:06:12. > :06:14.long run has not really changed very much. We are getting a bit more
:06:15. > :06:18.growth now, but their view is that it is at the cost of a little bit of
:06:19. > :06:22.the growth we will expect in the years after the next general
:06:23. > :06:26.election. As the day draws to a close, the one place there has
:06:27. > :06:34.definitely been no growth is the graphics budget of my colleague,
:06:35. > :06:39.Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the
:06:40. > :06:46.viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is
:06:47. > :06:52.very worrying. Was this a watershed for George
:06:53. > :06:55.Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that
:06:56. > :07:00.it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are
:07:01. > :07:04.spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George
:07:05. > :07:08.Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about
:07:09. > :07:13.growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the
:07:14. > :07:16.next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But
:07:17. > :07:20.don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it
:07:21. > :07:29.all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel.
:07:30. > :07:32.I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably
:07:33. > :07:39.a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his
:07:40. > :07:46.effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as
:07:47. > :07:48.well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech
:07:49. > :07:52.impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The
:07:53. > :07:57.takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people
:07:58. > :08:00.are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front
:08:01. > :08:05.bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be
:08:06. > :08:09.easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went
:08:10. > :08:15.through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the
:08:16. > :08:23.wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician.
:08:24. > :08:30.It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and
:08:31. > :08:35.he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like
:08:36. > :08:40.business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price
:08:41. > :08:44.freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you
:08:45. > :08:49.say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth,
:08:50. > :08:53.it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not
:08:54. > :08:57.Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed
:08:58. > :09:00.Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to
:09:01. > :09:05.disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little
:09:06. > :09:07.bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he
:09:08. > :09:12.went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out,
:09:13. > :09:15.Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his
:09:16. > :09:22.performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The
:09:23. > :09:28.Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are
:09:29. > :09:38.defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the
:09:39. > :09:43.books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will
:09:44. > :09:50.do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just
:09:51. > :09:58.the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit
:09:59. > :10:07.in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie
:10:08. > :10:13.is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy,
:10:14. > :10:19.in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that
:10:20. > :10:23.your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of
:10:24. > :10:28.your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George
:10:29. > :10:32.Osborne has a superior argument. I think Ed Balls will certainly trying
:10:33. > :10:35.his best, loud and clear, to make the case there is a cost of living
:10:36. > :10:38.crisis in this country and the Chancellor doesn't understand this.
:10:39. > :10:44.That was essentially the heat of the debate on the Autumn Statement day.
:10:45. > :10:47.One leading Labour MPs said to me that Ed Balls is always looking
:10:48. > :10:52.back, fixated with the rear-view mirror, that was the exact quote. A
:10:53. > :10:57.Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has a strong argument to make,
:10:58. > :11:05.unfortunately it was not made well in the chamber today. Quoting the
:11:06. > :11:10.Daily Mail, this is two poor performances. A quote that I can't
:11:11. > :11:15.use because it uses too many four letter words. Baroness Armstrong,
:11:16. > :11:20.speaking at Progress, a former Labour Cabinet minister, we are not
:11:21. > :11:23.sufficiently concerned about public spending, how we would pay for what
:11:24. > :11:27.we are talking about. Quite a battering? There were two sets of
:11:28. > :11:33.quotes you were giving. The couple were about the strategy for tackling
:11:34. > :11:39.public expenditure. I think it's fair that we talk about that. The
:11:40. > :11:50.rest were pretty unattributed, nameless sources. You have never
:11:51. > :11:55.given and of the record briefing? We have conversations off camera, but I
:11:56. > :12:00.don't think you have a wealth of evidence to say that somehow Ed
:12:01. > :12:03.Balls's arguments were wrong. He was making the point that, ultimately,
:12:04. > :12:08.it is a government that does not have its finger on the pulse about
:12:09. > :12:11.what most of your viewers are concerned about, that wages are
:12:12. > :12:16.being squeezed and prices are getting higher and higher. You have
:12:17. > :12:22.had time to study the Autumn Statement. What part of it does
:12:23. > :12:28.Labour disagree with? It is a very big question. I think the overall
:12:29. > :12:31.strategy the Autumn Statement is setting out does not deal with the
:12:32. > :12:36.fundamental problems in the economy. What measures do you disagree with?
:12:37. > :12:40.A lot of it is the absence of measures we would have put in if we
:12:41. > :12:43.were doing the Autumn Statement. If you are going to deal with the cost
:12:44. > :12:47.of living crisis, you have got to get productivity levels up in our
:12:48. > :12:51.society. One of the best ways of doing that is on infrastructure. We
:12:52. > :12:56.believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some
:12:57. > :13:03.of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business
:13:04. > :13:12.lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big
:13:13. > :13:15.structural reforms that we need. Ultimately, the public are concerned
:13:16. > :13:20.about the cost of living crisis. That has got to be childcare help, a
:13:21. > :13:24.10p starting rate of tax. Above all, and energy price freeze, which
:13:25. > :13:30.still this government are refusing to do. On Friday, you told me you
:13:31. > :13:35.supported the principle of a welfare cap. But you change bling claim the
:13:36. > :13:39.Chancellor's cap included pensions. You have now seen the figures, and
:13:40. > :13:44.it does not include pensions, correct? We do want a welfare cap.
:13:45. > :13:50.The government have said they are going to put more detail on this in
:13:51. > :13:55.the March budget. But it does not include pensions? We think they have
:13:56. > :14:00.a short term approach to the welfare cap. They put in some pension
:14:01. > :14:04.benefits. The state pension is not in the short-term plan because, as
:14:05. > :14:09.we believe, a triple lock is a good idea. In the longer term, if you are
:14:10. > :14:12.talking about structural welfare issues, you do have to think about
:14:13. > :14:15.pensions because they have to be sustainable if we are living
:14:16. > :14:20.longer. I think that is about the careful management. Let me show you
:14:21. > :14:26.what Ed Balls said on this programme at the start of the summer. As for
:14:27. > :14:29.pensioners, I think this is a real question. George Osborne is going to
:14:30. > :14:33.announce his cap in two weeks time. I don't know if he will exclude
:14:34. > :14:38.pension spending or including. Our plan is to include it. Pension
:14:39. > :14:43.spending would be included in the welfare cap? That is our plan,
:14:44. > :14:46.exactly what I just said. Over the long-term, if you have a serious
:14:47. > :14:52.welfare cap structural welfare issues, over 20, 30, 40 year
:14:53. > :14:57.period, you can't say that we will not work and pensions as part of
:14:58. > :15:05.that. Pensions would be part of the Labour cap? In the longer term. What
:15:06. > :15:10.is the longer term? If you win 2015? We want to stick with the triple
:15:11. > :15:14.lock on the pension, that is the Government approach to their
:15:15. > :15:18.short-term welfare cap. In the longer term, for example, on the
:15:19. > :15:24.winter fuel allowance, we should not necessarily be... There are lots of
:15:25. > :15:27.benefits... I understand that, I am talking about the basic state
:15:28. > :15:34.pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30, 40
:15:35. > :15:44.year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are
:15:45. > :15:47.writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions
:15:48. > :15:51.have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well,
:15:52. > :15:54.if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at
:15:55. > :16:02.pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part
:16:03. > :16:07.of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long-term
:16:08. > :16:15.cap we have to make sure... I'm talking about 2015-16. We haven't
:16:16. > :16:20.seen the proposition the Government has put before us.
:16:21. > :16:31.You claim people of ?1600 worse off under the coalition. That is true
:16:32. > :16:36.when you compare to pay and prices. Can you confirm that calculation
:16:37. > :16:41.does not include the ?700 tax cut from raising the income tax
:16:42. > :16:46.threshold, huge savings on mortgages because of low interest or the
:16:47. > :16:49.freezing of council tax? It doesn't include the tax and benefit
:16:50. > :16:55.changes. If you do want to look at those, last year, the ISS said they
:16:56. > :17:03.could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors. The
:17:04. > :17:09.VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child benefit cuts, they all add up. My
:17:10. > :17:15.understanding is that the ISS figures have said people are ?891
:17:16. > :17:23.worse off if you look at the tax and benefit changes since 2010. You have
:17:24. > :17:26.to look at wages and prices. The ISS confirmed our approach was broadly
:17:27. > :17:32.the right way of assessing what is happening. The Chancellor was
:17:33. > :17:38.saying, real household disposable incomes are rising. He is completely
:17:39. > :17:43.out of touch. Can you sum up the macro economic policy for Labour?
:17:44. > :17:47.Invest in the future, make sure we have the right approach for the
:17:48. > :17:51.long-term politicking. Tackle the cost of living crisis people are
:17:52. > :17:53.facing. Now, let's talk to the Financial
:17:54. > :18:02.Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid Javid.
:18:03. > :18:08.Discovery, underpinned by rising house prices, increasing personal
:18:09. > :18:12.debt, do you accept that is unsustainable?
:18:13. > :18:19.I accept the OBE are also said the reason why this country is facing
:18:20. > :18:25.more these challenges -- OBR. That is because we went through a
:18:26. > :18:33.Labour recession, the worst we have seen in 100 years. But do you accept
:18:34. > :18:39.that a recovery underpinned by these things I have just read out isn't
:18:40. > :18:44.sustainable? We set out a long-term plan for recovery, and again this
:18:45. > :18:48.week. We have shown with the tough decisions we have made already, the
:18:49. > :18:53.country can enjoy a recovery. There are still a lot of difficult
:18:54. > :19:04.decisions. The biggest risk are Labour's plans. The March
:19:05. > :19:09.projections work at for those -- for both business investment and
:19:10. > :19:15.exports. Suddenly it is expected to rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround
:19:16. > :19:19.in investment. How is it credible? I have been in business before
:19:20. > :19:24.politics. Any business person listening will know, when you have
:19:25. > :19:29.gone through a recession, the deepest in 100 years, it will hit
:19:30. > :19:33.investment, profits, you can't make plans again until you have
:19:34. > :19:42.confidence in the economy. That is what this country is seeing now
:19:43. > :19:48.under this government. This is an assumption made independently. The
:19:49. > :19:54.fall in business investment is because of the recession. The
:19:55. > :20:01.forecast increases, 5% next year, and so on, it is based on the
:20:02. > :20:06.independent forecast. Based on fact. If you look at the investment plans
:20:07. > :20:14.of companies, this week, the Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land
:20:15. > :20:18.Rover has plans to create more jobs, these investment plans are
:20:19. > :20:22.coming through now because of the confidence generated by this
:20:23. > :20:27.government, such as the cut in corporation tax which Labour would
:20:28. > :20:33.increase. Are the export forecasts more credible? The 15 years, our
:20:34. > :20:41.share of world trade decline. Suddenly starting next year, it
:20:42. > :20:45.stops falling. That's not credible. I worked in finance the 20 years. I
:20:46. > :20:53.have yet to find any forecast which is fully right. Under Labour, we
:20:54. > :20:59.would have forecasts made by Gordon Brown who would announce he would
:21:00. > :21:04.hit all his targets. Now we have an independent system.
:21:05. > :21:10.Do you accept, if exports or business investment do not pick up,
:21:11. > :21:15.then a purely consumer led recovery is not sustainable? We need more
:21:16. > :21:22.than a consumer led recovery. We need consumer investment to go up.
:21:23. > :21:25.On Xbox, it is noticeable that experts are primarily down because
:21:26. > :21:30.the markets we trade with, the eurozone markets, are depressed.
:21:31. > :21:36.Many have just come out of recession. Or they are still in
:21:37. > :21:46.recession. If you look at exports to non-EU countries, they are up 30%.
:21:47. > :21:52.120% to China. 100% to Russia. Will you keep the triple lock for
:21:53. > :21:58.the state pension beyond 2015? Yes, long term. That's why it is not part
:21:59. > :22:02.of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie cannot answer that question. It is
:22:03. > :22:10.straightforward. House prices are now rising ten
:22:11. > :22:18.times faster than average earnings. That's not good. House prices are
:22:19. > :22:22.rising, partly reflecting recovery. Ten times faster than average
:22:23. > :22:28.earnings, how can people afford to buy homes if it carries on? What you
:22:29. > :22:32.would hope, this is the evidence, if you look at the plans of the month
:22:33. > :22:39.companies, they are planning new homes which will mean that, as this
:22:40. > :22:43.demand spurs that investment, more homes will come about. We need to
:22:44. > :23:26.give people the means to buy those homes. We have introduced the help
:23:27. > :23:37.to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says it will start rising again but as
:23:38. > :23:51.household debt rises again Petr Cech reduces, -- as household debt
:23:52. > :23:56.reduces, we need to make sure there are checks in place. Wages have not
:23:57. > :24:04.been rising in real terms for quite some time. Over the next five years,
:24:05. > :24:16.even as the economy grows, by about 15% according the OBR to the OBR --
:24:17. > :24:22.but people will not benefit. These hard-working families will not share
:24:23. > :24:28.in the recovery. What is the best way to help those families? The
:24:29. > :24:32.government doesn't set wages. What we can do is influence the overall
:24:33. > :24:42.economy. We don't have a magic lever. Wages have been stagnating
:24:43. > :24:48.for five years. When will people get a proper salary? The best way for
:24:49. > :24:52.wage growth is a growing economy, more jobs. We have more people
:24:53. > :24:59.employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The biggest
:25:00. > :25:04.risk to recovery is if we let Labour into the Treasury with more spending
:25:05. > :25:09.and more debt. Which got us into this trouble. By whatever measure
:25:10. > :25:15.you care to choose, would people be better off come the 20 15th election
:25:16. > :25:22.than they were in 2010? Yes, they will be. Look at jobs. Already more
:25:23. > :25:27.people employed than at any other time in history. Will they be better
:25:28. > :25:31.off? The best way for anyone to raise their living standards is
:25:32. > :25:39.access to a growing job market. But will they be better off? I believe
:25:40. > :25:44.people will be. Compared to 2010. Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This
:25:45. > :25:50.is a credible measure. Now, what do you think the Education
:25:51. > :25:54.Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at school? Hard-working? Hand always
:25:55. > :25:57.up? Top of the class? Well, if he wasn't passionate about education
:25:58. > :26:04.then, he is now. In fact, since he took office, it seems he hasn't
:26:05. > :26:08.stopped working very hard indeed. When the coalition came to power,
:26:09. > :26:11.Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they were on a long march to reform
:26:12. > :26:17.education. Just like Mao, they faced a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion
:26:18. > :26:22.for new school places. They extended Labour's academy programme. There's
:26:23. > :26:24.now about 3,000 in England. But then, they marched even further,
:26:25. > :26:31.creating free schools run by parents, funded by taxpayers. 174
:26:32. > :26:34.have opened so far. The schools admission code was changed, to give
:26:35. > :26:37.parents more choice. And a pupil premium was introduced,
:26:38. > :26:41.currently, an extra ?900 funding for each disadvantaged child.
:26:42. > :26:45.An overhaul of the national curriculum provoked criticism.
:26:46. > :26:52.Chairman Gove mocked detractors as "bad academia". But exam reforms
:26:53. > :26:56.didn't quite go to plan. Although GCSEs got harder, plans to replace
:26:57. > :26:59.A-levels had to be abandoned. Ultimately, the true test of these
:27:00. > :27:05.reforms will be what happens in the classroom. The person in charge of
:27:06. > :27:08.making sure those classrooms are up to scratch in England is the Chief
:27:09. > :27:12.Inspector Of Schools, head of Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins
:27:13. > :27:18.me now. Over the past 15 years, we have
:27:19. > :27:22.doubled spending on schools even allowing for inflation. By
:27:23. > :27:27.international standards, we are stagnating, why? I said last year
:27:28. > :27:37.that mediocrity had settled into the system. Too many children were
:27:38. > :27:43.coasting in schools, which is why we changed the grading structure, we
:27:44. > :27:48.removed that awful word, satisfactory. Saying that good is
:27:49. > :27:52.now the only acceptable standard and schools had a limited time in which
:27:53. > :27:57.to get to that. We are seeing gradually, it is difficult to say
:27:58. > :28:03.this in the week we have had the OECD report. Things have gradually
:28:04. > :28:07.improved. I will come onto that in a minute. Explain this. International
:28:08. > :28:13.comparisons show us flat-lining or even falling in some subjects,
:28:14. > :28:17.including science. For 20 years, our domestic exam results just got
:28:18. > :28:22.better and better. Was this a piece of fiction fed to us by the
:28:23. > :28:28.educational establishment, was there a cover-up? There is no question
:28:29. > :28:34.there has grade inflation. I speak as an ex-headteacher who saw that in
:28:35. > :28:38.examinations. Perceptual state is actually doing something about that.
:28:39. > :28:48.Most good heads will say that is about time. We have to be credible.
:28:49. > :28:52.Do politicians and educationalists conspire in this grade inflation? It
:28:53. > :28:57.might suit politicians to say things are going up every year. As a head,
:28:58. > :29:05.I knew a lot of the exams youngsters were sitting were not up to scratch.
:29:06. > :29:11.The latest OECD study places us 36th for maths, 23rd reading, slipping
:29:12. > :29:16.down to 21st in science. Yet, Ofsted, your organisation,
:29:17. > :29:22.designates 80% of schools as good or outstanding. That's another fiction.
:29:23. > :29:25.This year, we have. If we see this level of progress, it has been a
:29:26. > :29:31.remarkable progress over the last years since we changed our grading
:29:32. > :29:36.structure, then... In a year, absolutely. We have better teachers
:29:37. > :29:40.coming into our school system. Better leaders. Better schools. The
:29:41. > :29:43.big challenge for our country is making sure that progress is
:29:44. > :29:50.maintained which will eventually translate into better outcomes.
:29:51. > :29:56.These figures are pretty much up-to-date. Are you saying within a
:29:57. > :30:02.year 80% of the schools are good enough? All of the schools we
:30:03. > :30:07.upgraded have had better grades in GCSE and grade 2. We have to make
:30:08. > :30:10.sure that is maintained. The Government has based its reforms on
:30:11. > :30:14.similar reforms in Sweden. In opposition they were endlessly going
:30:15. > :30:19.to Stockholm to find out how it was done. Swedish schools are doing even
:30:20. > :30:25.worse than ours in the tables. Why are we copying failure? The
:30:26. > :30:30.secretary of state believes, and I actually believe, as somebody who
:30:31. > :30:34.has come from an academy model, that if you hand power and resources, you
:30:35. > :30:37.hand autonomy to the people on the ground, to the people in the
:30:38. > :30:45.classroom, in the corridors, in the playgrounds, things work. If you
:30:46. > :30:49.allow the great monoliths that used to have responsibility for education
:30:50. > :30:52.in the past to take control again, you will see a reverse in standards.
:30:53. > :30:55.You have got to actually empower those people that make the
:30:56. > :31:01.difference. That is why autonomy and freedom is important. We spent a lot
:31:02. > :31:04.of money moving what were local authority schools to become
:31:05. > :31:08.academies and new free school czar being set up as well. When the
:31:09. > :31:12.academies are pretty much the same level of autonomy, the free school
:31:13. > :31:17.is maybe a little bit more, the evidence we have had so far is that
:31:18. > :31:20.they don't really perform any better than local authority schools?
:31:21. > :31:25.Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they might even be doing worse? These are
:31:26. > :31:29.early days. We will say more about this on weapons they when we produce
:31:30. > :31:33.the annual report. The sponsored academies that took over the worst
:31:34. > :31:36.schools in the country, in the most difficult circumstances, in the most
:31:37. > :31:44.disadvantaged communities, are doing much better now. What about GCSE?
:31:45. > :31:50.They are doing GCSE equivalents, the lass academic subjects question my
:31:51. > :31:54.cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look
:31:55. > :32:07.at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of
:32:08. > :32:10.teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally
:32:11. > :32:14.develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get
:32:15. > :32:17.them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same
:32:18. > :32:24.if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just
:32:25. > :32:28.a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian
:32:29. > :32:30.countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most
:32:31. > :32:36.important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work.
:32:37. > :32:42.We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We
:32:43. > :32:46.have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It's no
:32:47. > :32:51.good getting good people into the classroom and then seeing them part
:32:52. > :32:57.of teaching by bad behaviour, disaffected youngsters and poor
:32:58. > :33:01.leadership. We see young teachers doing well for a time and then being
:33:02. > :33:07.put off teaching and leaving from that sort of culture in our schools.
:33:08. > :33:11.Are you a cheerleader for government education policy rather than
:33:12. > :33:14.independent inspectors? I am independent, Ofsted is independent.
:33:15. > :33:19.I believe we are saying the right things on standards. The Association
:33:20. > :33:23.of teachers and lecturers say you are an arm of government. The NUT
:33:24. > :33:28.has called for your resignation. Another wants to abolish or
:33:29. > :33:33.Inspectorate. Have you become a pariah amongst teaching unions? If
:33:34. > :33:39.we are challenging schools to become better, that is our job, we will
:33:40. > :33:42.carry on doing that. I am not going to preside over the status quo. We
:33:43. > :33:47.will challenge the system to do better, we will challenge schools
:33:48. > :33:51.and colleges to do better. We will also challenge government when we
:33:52. > :33:53.think they are going wrong. Many people in the education
:33:54. > :33:56.establishment think your primary purpose is to do the Government's
:33:57. > :34:03.bidding by shepherding schools into becoming academies. Not true at all.
:34:04. > :34:08.You are a big supporter of academies? Yes, I believe the people
:34:09. > :34:12.that do the business in schools are the people that are free to do what
:34:13. > :34:16.is necessary to raise standards. I am a big supporter of autonomy in
:34:17. > :34:26.the school system. But where we see academies Vale, where we see free
:34:27. > :34:30.schools fail, we will say so. The study does not find much evidence
:34:31. > :34:35.that competition and choice raise standards, but it does go with you
:34:36. > :34:39.and say that strong school leadership, coupled with autonomy,
:34:40. > :34:44.can make a difference. Can somebody with no experience in education be
:34:45. > :34:48.in charge of a school? A lot of hot air has been expounded on the issue
:34:49. > :34:50.of whether teachers should be qualified or not. If qualified
:34:51. > :34:59.teacher status was the gold standard, why is it that one in
:35:00. > :35:03.three teachers, one in three lessons that will observe are not good
:35:04. > :35:07.enough. Taught by qualified teachers. I've not yet met a
:35:08. > :35:10.headteacher that has not appointed by qualified staff when they cannot
:35:11. > :35:14.get qualified teachers. Their job is to make sure they get accredited as
:35:15. > :35:17.soon as possible and come up to scratch in the classroom. Do you
:35:18. > :35:24.support the use of unqualified teachers? I do. I have done it. If I
:35:25. > :35:27.could not get a maths, physics or modern languages teacher and I
:35:28. > :35:30.thought somebody straight from university, without qualified
:35:31. > :35:34.teachers start this, that they could communicate well with youngsters, I
:35:35. > :35:38.would get that person into the classroom and get them accredited if
:35:39. > :35:42.they delivered the goods. If we are going to allow schools to have more
:35:43. > :35:47.autonomy and not be accountable to local authorities, free schools
:35:48. > :35:52.academies, don't you have to do... New entrants will be coming into the
:35:53. > :35:59.market, the educational marketplace. Do you not have to act more quickly
:36:00. > :36:02.when it is clear, and there has been examined recently, where it is
:36:03. > :36:07.clearly going badly wrong and children's education at risk?
:36:08. > :36:10.Absolutely. I made a point to the secretary of state and it is
:36:11. > :36:13.something I will talk more about over the coming year. We need to be
:36:14. > :36:17.in school is much more often. If a school fails at the moment, or
:36:18. > :36:24.underperforms, goes into this new category, Her Majesty 's inspectors
:36:25. > :36:27.stay with that institution until it improves. Sometimes we don't see a
:36:28. > :36:32.school for five or seven years. That is wrong. My argument is that Ofsted
:36:33. > :36:35.should pay a much greater part in monitoring the performance of
:36:36. > :36:42.schools between those inspections. Are you enjoying it? It is a tough
:36:43. > :36:49.job. Are you enjoying it? This is a tough job, but I enjoy it.
:36:50. > :36:52.Sometimes. You are watching Sunday Politics.
:36:53. > :36:54.Coming up in just over 20 minutes, Diane Abbott will be joining us. And
:36:55. > :37:09.we will Hello and welcome to the part of
:37:10. > :37:12.Sunday Politics that's just for us. Here in the East. I'm Etholle
:37:13. > :37:15.George. Coming up: The government investigation into the running of a
:37:16. > :37:19.chain of academy schools. And want to choose the candidate to
:37:20. > :37:26.stand as your MP? If so, open primaries are the way to go. And
:37:27. > :37:31.we've had two this weekend. It is important that we all have a
:37:32. > :37:34.say. It's very helpful, I hope. But first, let's meet this week's
:37:35. > :37:37.guests. Therese Coffey is the Conservative MP for Suffolk Coastal.
:37:38. > :37:40.And Stuart Agnew, from the UK Independence Party, is one of the
:37:41. > :37:46.Members of the European Parliament for the East of England. Welcome to
:37:47. > :37:52.you both. Let's talk first about one of our biggest political stories
:37:53. > :37:55.this week. The government's decision to scrap
:37:56. > :37:59.tolling on the new A14 scheme in Cambridgeshire. It was widely
:38:00. > :38:02.attacked as a tax on the county of Suffolk, because drivers would have
:38:03. > :38:09.had no choice but to use the toll road to get in and out of the
:38:10. > :38:15.county. Therese Coffey, you led the campaign
:38:16. > :38:27.to stop the holes. You must feel vindicated? `` de tolls.
:38:28. > :38:33.I am really pleased. I think, together, we did a very good job. We
:38:34. > :38:38.put across the argument that this would be bad for our county.
:38:39. > :38:43.Why did it take so long for the government to realise there would be
:38:44. > :38:49.no alternative to the toll? I have been working on this for some
:38:50. > :38:54.time, trying to put across a case. But the consultation helped us to
:38:55. > :38:56.get the voice of many groups about why this would be the wrong thing to
:38:57. > :39:05.do. Stuart Agnew, it sounds a bit
:39:06. > :39:10.European, this idea of tolls. Would this have been right?
:39:11. > :39:16.Our group in our counsel put forward a motion that this was the wrong
:39:17. > :39:22.thing to do, but we were last at. I am pleased that we have been shown
:39:23. > :39:31.to be right. Many people would have just gone on an alternative route to
:39:32. > :39:39.avoid the tolls, which would lead to queues in other areas. But there are
:39:40. > :39:44.other interests than the A14. We are planning to ills a town of 20,000
:39:45. > :39:53.people somewhere near Cambridge `` built a town. They have said that it
:39:54. > :40:01.is not currently the right infrastructure to build a town. And
:40:02. > :40:12.it forms part of nine high`speed routes in Europe. We saw HS2 facing
:40:13. > :40:21.some barriers. There will be perhaps be NHS three and a number four, as
:40:22. > :40:26.well. Have we not had three wasted years?
:40:27. > :40:32.I did not think there was much money left when the last Labour government
:40:33. > :40:37.said that. What is different is the extra widening of the roads to
:40:38. > :40:42.support the new town. But I think it is critical to say that we need to
:40:43. > :40:46.press on with it and make sure that everything is done as quickly as
:40:47. > :40:56.possible so that the diggers can start in 20 16.
:40:57. > :40:59.If you follow politics in America, you'll have heard of primaries, the
:41:00. > :41:02.local elections where the parties choose their presidential
:41:03. > :41:06.candidates. The day many of them are held is known as Super Tuesday. And
:41:07. > :41:08.you could say that here we've just had Super Saturday. The
:41:09. > :41:10.Conservatives held so`called open primaries yesterday in both South
:41:11. > :41:12.East Cambridgeshire and Northampton South.
:41:13. > :41:16.They're open because anyone from the constituency can turn up and vote,
:41:17. > :41:19.whether or not they're Tories. The party was once very keen on the idea
:41:20. > :41:30.but very few open primaries have actually taken place.
:41:31. > :41:37.You know how it is. You wait ages for an open primaries to occur, and
:41:38. > :41:44.then to happen at once. This was Northampton South, where memory ``
:41:45. > :41:48.many of the people who are voting were not party members.
:41:49. > :41:52.I think it is good that we all take part.
:41:53. > :41:56.I think it is democratic. The process was not entirely open,
:41:57. > :42:02.there was a short list. But it was up to the four candidates to win
:42:03. > :42:11.over the rumour. Open primaries was the big idea
:42:12. > :42:14.after the expenses scandal. The Conservatives say that this is
:42:15. > :42:19.democracy in action, a chance to connect with the public.
:42:20. > :42:25.Deciding who should be your next MP should be up to the ordinary public
:42:26. > :42:31.instead of just Parliament. If we let ordinary people decide to what
:42:32. > :42:37.the next candidates, we will have a proper new mass party organisation
:42:38. > :42:41.and real ideas of who should be the MPs on safe seats.
:42:42. > :42:46.It also gives the chance to elect a local candidates.
:42:47. > :42:50.People like to have a local candidates. How do you do that if
:42:51. > :42:56.there are hardly any party members to do that? The temptation is for
:42:57. > :43:01.the national parties to bring someone in from the outside, who do
:43:02. > :43:06.not have local routes. When the first one of the open
:43:07. > :43:14.primaries was held in this region for the mayoral election, more than
:43:15. > :43:17.20,000 people attended. The party chairman was delighted.
:43:18. > :43:22.I think that the days where the party choose the candidates behind
:43:23. > :43:25.closed doors are long gone. The electorate should decide.
:43:26. > :43:32.However, despite his enthusiasm, the idea has not really taken off. The
:43:33. > :43:38.party are wary of candidates who are chosen by the public.
:43:39. > :43:45.Boris Johnson was the first one to be chosen by the public. Both of
:43:46. > :43:49.these people are outspoken and tend to be their own brand. That is what
:43:50. > :43:54.the party hierarchy does not like. And the region's other primary,
:43:55. > :43:59.Cambridgeshire, they picked one of the youngest barristers in the
:44:00. > :44:01.country as the local Conservative candidates.
:44:02. > :44:08.She comes from the local area. I have been selected in a local
:44:09. > :44:12.primary, where people are from different parties. I will be putting
:44:13. > :44:19.forward my constituents when I hopefully represent the area.
:44:20. > :44:23.Back in Southampton, David McIntosh celebrated his primary win. Neither
:44:24. > :44:28.candidate had a very large turnout, but they were chosen by more than
:44:29. > :44:34.just the Conservative Party. Will that make a difference?
:44:35. > :44:42.After that, let's hear from the winner, David McIntosh. Thank you
:44:43. > :44:48.for joining us. What was it like to be chosen in an
:44:49. > :44:52.open primary? I think it was very brave of the
:44:53. > :44:56.local party to take this decision, and we need to allow them to take
:44:57. > :45:03.their party democracy, because, when you do have candidates being chosen
:45:04. > :45:08.behind closed doors, people feel left out of the process. When we see
:45:09. > :45:11.people wanting to see the decisions taken by people who understand local
:45:12. > :45:14.communities, it is right that the local people have a decision in who
:45:15. > :45:23.the people are. Does it matter that only 165 people
:45:24. > :45:28.voted? It is not exactly mass participation?
:45:29. > :45:33.I think it would have been a smaller number if it was only open to party
:45:34. > :45:38.members. It is stimulated debate. People really got involved in it.
:45:39. > :45:43.People turned up, and the majority of people voted for me.
:45:44. > :45:46.Half of those who did turn up will not party members. Does that concern
:45:47. > :45:51.you? No, I think it is great. People look
:45:52. > :45:56.to local politicians to make decisions. They want to see local
:45:57. > :46:01.politicians who reflect them. I was born and grew up in Northampton. I
:46:02. > :46:07.am very proud to serve that leader of the council. I hope that people
:46:08. > :46:10.will elect me to Westminster in two years time.
:46:11. > :46:15.This is a marginal seat. You have won the battle, but not the war? The
:46:16. > :46:18.Labour Party have selected someone from London, who cannot understand
:46:19. > :46:22.the issues of Northampton in the same way as someone who has lived
:46:23. > :46:28.here. The former councillor and I have
:46:29. > :46:34.worked very closely. I am looking forward to working with Ryan to
:46:35. > :46:42.convince the people that they need a local man.
:46:43. > :46:46.Therese Coffey, you have had experience in one of these open
:46:47. > :46:52.primaries in Surrey three years ago. Do you think it makes a difference
:46:53. > :46:58.to the kind of candidate you get? How was the experience for you?
:46:59. > :47:07.I think it is a way that you can welcome the candidates. Many places
:47:08. > :47:13.have now been selected by open primary is in our party. It is good
:47:14. > :47:17.to open up that selection. I was speaking to a Labour candidate, and
:47:18. > :47:21.they were intrigued about the idea of allowing people who were not
:47:22. > :47:23.members of the party to select. We hope that they will vote for us in
:47:24. > :47:30.the general election. Anyone could turn up. People could
:47:31. > :47:35.fill the room with those who are trying to ruin the Conservatives
:47:36. > :47:41.chances? That is always the downside. People
:47:42. > :47:47.worry that they will fill the room with people voting against them.
:47:48. > :47:54.However, you are selecting from a series of pretty good people. One
:47:55. > :48:01.has to remember that. There can be a cynical element, where the Tory high
:48:02. > :48:06.command says that here is a short list of six people that they have
:48:07. > :48:10.decided, aren't you so lucky to have a choice?
:48:11. > :48:14.But that is not what happens. Any of the four people in Northampton would
:48:15. > :48:24.make a good MP. Has this been dropped as a promising
:48:25. > :48:32.smack `` a policy? I do think that the idea of having
:48:33. > :48:36.all postal open primaries has been possibly dropped, because they are
:48:37. > :48:40.expensive. Perhaps they decided it is not the best use of money at the
:48:41. > :48:44.moment. What is the point of joining a party
:48:45. > :48:49.if one of the best things about membership is getting a vote in
:48:50. > :48:59.these events? You are more likely to become a
:49:00. > :49:03.person in Westminster if you join a large party, which gives you a
:49:04. > :49:07.privileged position. I think it is only right that you should put
:49:08. > :49:12.yourself open to everyone in your constituency, not just the small
:49:13. > :49:17.committee of that party. Does this threaten a party
:49:18. > :49:22.politics? Does this threaten the membership that funds the party?
:49:23. > :49:29.No, I don't think it does. I was selected by a members only meeting,
:49:30. > :49:32.because we had a membership of 800 people. But the reason that people
:49:33. > :49:37.join parties is because they want to support that party to get into
:49:38. > :49:45.government. By contributing through a membership fee, they do their bit,
:49:46. > :49:48.rather than state funding. A group which runs several academy
:49:49. > :49:51.schools and colleges in Bedfordshire is under investigation by both the
:49:52. > :49:53.Department for Education and the Skills Funding Agency. Allegations
:49:54. > :49:56.against the Barnfield Federation include grade manipulation and
:49:57. > :49:59.bullying, all of which they strongly refute. Labour says it highlights
:50:00. > :50:03.the lack of accountability in the academy and free school system. The
:50:04. > :50:10.findings of the investigation should be published before the end of the
:50:11. > :50:14.year. It's a set of schools that's been
:50:15. > :50:16.held up as a shining example by the Education Secretary. But the
:50:17. > :50:19.Barnfield Federation, which comprises more than half a dozen
:50:20. > :50:23.schools and academies, is now the subject of an official inquiry.
:50:24. > :50:27.Barnfield staff are made to sign confidentiality agreements. These
:50:28. > :50:36.former teachers want to remain anonymous.
:50:37. > :50:38.It was demanded of them to spoon`feed students to get the
:50:39. > :50:41.grades. They would be continually be rewriting pieces of coursework.
:50:42. > :50:44.They'd take the students off timetable, for core subjects in
:50:45. > :50:49.particular, and then spend a week making sure they rewrote it, rewrote
:50:50. > :50:52.it until they achieved those grades. The young people with special needs
:50:53. > :50:55.felt extremely stressed by Barnfield. It caused a lot of
:50:56. > :50:59.emotional trauma for them. Some students in particular would cry. We
:51:00. > :51:02.had autistic boys who would rock a lot in the classroom because their
:51:03. > :51:09.targets were unrealistic. A lot of their mentoring was cut.
:51:10. > :51:12.There are five campuses already in Luton where 20% of the town's
:51:13. > :51:15.children are taught. Three other academies in Bedfordshire are on
:51:16. > :51:18.hold and it wants to expand even further. There are plans for free
:51:19. > :51:24.schools in Cambridgeshire and Oxfordshire.
:51:25. > :51:28.By these gates is St George's Lower School in Leighton Buzzard. It's
:51:29. > :51:30.next on the list to be converted into the family of Barnfield
:51:31. > :51:34.academies. However, that's was supposed to be December first, but
:51:35. > :51:38.it has now been put on hold until the results of the investigation are
:51:39. > :51:40.known and the same goes for two more in Bedfordshire.
:51:41. > :51:43.A separate application for another free school in Mid Beds, which
:51:44. > :51:46.failed at the eleventh hour, prompted the local MP to raise the
:51:47. > :51:54.matter at Prime Minister's Questions.
:51:55. > :51:59.Would the Prime Minister please use his good office to ensure that the
:52:00. > :52:06.application in mid`Bedfordshire is incorporated into this inquiry?
:52:07. > :52:09.Gavin Shuker, the Labour MP for Luton has written to the Department
:52:10. > :52:12.for Education, raising his concerns with the Barnfield Federation.
:52:13. > :52:15.I'm aware that for many people they've tried to raise the the
:52:16. > :52:18.concerns with the Department for Education directly and were
:52:19. > :52:20.misdirected into a route where they couldn't do so. That is a really
:52:21. > :52:26.serious concern. Have you tried to take your concerns
:52:27. > :52:31.to the Department for Education? I did try to ring and it was very
:52:32. > :52:35.difficult. The person at the end of the phone said they didn't know who
:52:36. > :52:38.I needed to speak to I felt I was going round and round in circles, so
:52:39. > :52:41.I gave up. Ed Miliband, on a recent visit to
:52:42. > :52:43.Luton, said the investigation highlights the lack of
:52:44. > :52:47.accountability of the academy model. I think is an illustration of the
:52:48. > :52:50.wider problem that there is, which is that Michael Gove thinks that you
:52:51. > :52:53.can run all of Britain's schools, academy schools and free schools
:52:54. > :52:56.from central government. That's thousands of schools. Actually, what
:52:57. > :52:59.you need is local accountability as well, because that is really, really
:53:00. > :53:02.important for holding schools to account.
:53:03. > :53:05.In a statement, the Department for Education told us: We have received
:53:06. > :53:06.allegations relating to Barnfield College and the Barnfield
:53:07. > :53:09.Federation. We are taking these seriously and
:53:10. > :53:12.are investigating. The investigation is due to be
:53:13. > :53:17.published in the next month. The women we've spoken to don't feel
:53:18. > :53:21.this report will go far enough. I know colleagues that, you know,
:53:22. > :53:24.sort of raised concerns or raised questions and they'd be demanded to
:53:25. > :53:32.attend a meeting and would be told off. Basically they had no voice.
:53:33. > :53:36.The Barnfield Federation said they didn't want to talk to us until
:53:37. > :53:39.after the investigation, but sent us this statement: We do not recognise
:53:40. > :53:43.the picture being painted by these accusations and strongly refute
:53:44. > :53:46.these claims. Our students are our lifeblood and
:53:47. > :53:48.follow a personalised learning programme suited to their individual
:53:49. > :53:51.needs and aimed at developing rounded young people who will reach
:53:52. > :53:55.their potential, prepared for the world of work. The current
:53:56. > :54:01.investigation is not about education standards. It's about operational
:54:02. > :54:11.issues. And any lessons about how things were done in the past will be
:54:12. > :54:14.learned, implemented and adhered to. Last week, the Education Secretary
:54:15. > :54:17.Michael Gove visited this region and we asked him about the Barnfield
:54:18. > :54:22.investigation. Was the system of reporting problems to his department
:54:23. > :54:25.really working? I think our system is working. At
:54:26. > :54:29.the moment, we are investigating some allegations that have been made
:54:30. > :54:31.about a variety of things that happened at Barnfield. Until that
:54:32. > :54:35.investigation concludes, I don't think I can comment on it. It
:54:36. > :54:39.wouldn't be fair to any of the people involved. One of the things
:54:40. > :54:42.that we have found, though, is that when other complaints have been made
:54:43. > :54:45.about things that have been going wrong in other schools, that the
:54:46. > :54:48.department and its agencies have been as quick to investigate them,
:54:49. > :54:51.if not quicker, than other the local authorities. But obviously, if there
:54:52. > :54:54.are people who feel that their attempts to blow the whistle or
:54:55. > :54:57.register complaints haven't been handled properly, then I am
:54:58. > :55:00.concerned about it and I want to make sure that they get a proper
:55:01. > :55:04.answer. We are making sure that we put new
:55:05. > :55:07.systems in place in order to ensure that academies and free schools are
:55:08. > :55:11.more accountable than ever before. But they're already more accountable
:55:12. > :55:14.than local authority schools. It's not just me they're accountable to,
:55:15. > :55:16.there's an organisation called the Education Funding Agency that
:55:17. > :55:20.scrutinises their accounts line by line. There's also the case that
:55:21. > :55:23.because all academies are charities ,that the Charities Commission is
:55:24. > :55:31.there to make sure that if there is any jiggery`pokery that people face
:55:32. > :55:36.the music. Therese Coffey, since we spoke to
:55:37. > :55:40.Michael Gove, people are saying that they tried to contact the Department
:55:41. > :55:45.for Education, using the relevant e`mail address, but they have not
:55:46. > :55:51.had a reply. That does sound frustrating and
:55:52. > :55:55.concerning. I would be happy to try and direct any e`mails that come to
:55:56. > :55:58.me directly to the appropriate people who are in charge of the
:55:59. > :56:05.area. If this system is not working, that
:56:06. > :56:10.is a serious issue, isn't it? I understand that. I am trying to
:56:11. > :56:15.offer another route, that will be able to identify why the system is
:56:16. > :56:20.not working as well. We will get the issues recorded and work out the
:56:21. > :56:24.process of why it has gone wrong. I understand why people want to report
:56:25. > :56:29.certain schools. That is the right thing to do. I have been working
:56:30. > :56:34.with other MPs from across the region about another chain of
:56:35. > :56:41.academies. We have taken our ideas to Lord Nash, and we have been
:56:42. > :56:46.getting some response from that. Do you feel that the local authority
:56:47. > :56:52.has a role to play? We background in schools. This is
:56:53. > :56:59.what we want for social mobility. `` grammar schools. I am disappointed
:57:00. > :57:05.that there has been trouble in Luton. It originally looked so good
:57:06. > :57:11.with the original Barnfield college. But there is an ongoing
:57:12. > :57:15.investigation. I haven't had any representational
:57:16. > :57:19.letters at all about this. At the start of this academy
:57:20. > :57:26.programme, we have exonerated it. But how come Michael Gove has so
:57:27. > :57:29.much information on his desk, thousands of schools. He cannot know
:57:30. > :57:36.what is going on? The main way that schools are
:57:37. > :57:38.accountable is to their parents. I think that the Department for
:57:39. > :57:45.Education is building up extra teams. I think it is disingenuous
:57:46. > :57:48.for the Labour Party to be asking for accountability when they removed
:57:49. > :57:52.that accountability. Are you opening up the schools to
:57:53. > :58:00.more... There has to be a good set of
:58:01. > :58:04.inspectors. In one year, a school can change dramatically. You can
:58:05. > :58:16.never rest, because there is a high turnover of pupils and staff. You
:58:17. > :58:20.must have reporting and inspections. Time for some of the other political
:58:21. > :58:29.stories in the news this week. From immigration to dancing, it's our 60
:58:30. > :58:33.second round`up. In less than a month, migrants from
:58:34. > :58:37.Bulgaria and Romania can come to work here without restrictions. In
:58:38. > :58:43.Luton, there's already a Roma community of 500. But Peterborough,
:58:44. > :58:52.says its MP Stuart Jackson, is already bursting at the seams.
:58:53. > :58:59.Frankly, Peter Brett is full, and we cannot take any more immigration.
:59:00. > :59:02.That is the message that I have been giving ministers. `` Peter borough.
:59:03. > :59:06.In the Commons, a plea from MP Philip Hollobone for a new Kettering
:59:07. > :59:11.junction on the A14 to help congestion and business. But did he
:59:12. > :59:18.expect these responses? I do not want to see the town going
:59:19. > :59:22.to a halt. We want to be able to get to the places of work.
:59:23. > :59:25.The continuing presence of the gentleman on a daily basis is
:59:26. > :59:28.important. And we know Therese Coffey's
:59:29. > :59:31.delighted the new A14 in Cambridgeshire will not be tolled.
:59:32. > :59:35.She tweeted ` I'm so happy I could do a conga down the A14 to
:59:36. > :59:39.celebrate! And if you do do the conga down the
:59:40. > :59:48.A14, Therese, please could you let us know. So we can film it! Thank
:59:49. > :59:51.you for joining us. Thanks very much to both of you.
:59:52. > :59:55.Therese Coffey and Stuart Agnew. And that's our final Sunday Politics of
:59:56. > :59:55.2013. We'll be back in the New Year, on January
:59:56. > :00:08.work... That's all we've got time for. It's back now to Andrew.
:00:09. > :00:21.Tomorrow, the House of Commons will pay its tributes to Nelson Mandela.
:00:22. > :00:41.Our nation has lost its greatest son. Our people have lost a father.
:00:42. > :00:48.The first thing I ever did that involved an issue or policy, or
:00:49. > :00:55.politics, was protest against apartheid.
:00:56. > :01:05.I think his greatest legacy, to South Africa and to the world, is
:01:06. > :01:16.the emphasis which he has always put on the need for a conciliation, on
:01:17. > :01:21.the importance of human rights. He also made us understand that we can
:01:22. > :01:25.change the world. We can change the world by changing attitudes, by
:01:26. > :01:30.changing perceptions. For this reason, I would like to pay him
:01:31. > :01:43.tribute as a great human being, who raised the standard of humanity.
:01:44. > :01:47.Thank you for the gift of Madiba. Thank you for what he has enabled us
:01:48. > :02:04.to know we can become. We are joined now by the Labour MP
:02:05. > :02:09.Diane Abbott. You met Mr Mandela not one after he was released from
:02:10. > :02:14.prison in 1990. He went as an election observer for the first one
:02:15. > :02:18.person, one-vote in South Africa. I would guess, of all the people you
:02:19. > :02:22.met in your life, you must have been the most impressive and biggest
:02:23. > :02:28.influence? He was extraordinary. He had just come out of prison, 28
:02:29. > :02:34.years in reason. He had seen a lot of his colleagues tortured, blown up
:02:35. > :02:36.and killed. He was entirely without bitterness. That is what came
:02:37. > :02:42.across. That was key to his achievement, to achieve a peaceful
:02:43. > :02:46.transition. Everybody thought that if you have black majority rule, you
:02:47. > :02:51.might have a bloodbath. It's down to Nelson Mandela but didn't happen. I
:02:52. > :02:57.remember FW de Klerk saying that Mandela was the key to getting a
:02:58. > :03:04.peaceful transition. Absolutely the key, an amazing man. London was one
:03:05. > :03:08.of the centres, people talked about it as being the other centre of the
:03:09. > :03:13.anti-apartheid struggle. That anti-apartheid struggle in London,
:03:14. > :03:17.it had an effect on black politics in Britain? Oh, yes. If you were
:03:18. > :03:23.black and politically active at the time, the apartheid struggle, the
:03:24. > :03:27.struggle against white supremacy in South Africa, was very important.
:03:28. > :03:30.Whatever your colour, the anti-apartheid struggle, for our
:03:31. > :03:36.generation, was the political campaign. We have the 50th
:03:37. > :03:40.anniversary of Kennedy's assassination. Mr Mandela's death.
:03:41. > :03:44.We are kind of running out of people that inspired us? I will never
:03:45. > :03:49.forget where I was when I saw him come out of prison, hand-in-hand
:03:50. > :03:53.with the women, I might add. If you have spent your whole teenage years
:03:54. > :03:58.and 20 is boycotting, marching, picketing, to see him actually come
:03:59. > :04:05.out was amazing. Do you think it was more exciting to meet you or the
:04:06. > :04:13.Spice Girls? I think the Spice Girls. What did the Labour
:04:14. > :04:17.backbenchers think about Ed Balls's performance after the Autumn
:04:18. > :04:21.Statement? Luck, Ed Balls is a brilliant man, but I think even he
:04:22. > :04:24.would say that it was not his best performance. But if you look at the
:04:25. > :04:29.polls, the public liked the points he made. The backbenchers were
:04:30. > :04:36.quiet, there was something wrong? I noticed that. It was like a wall of
:04:37. > :04:39.sound, deliberately. They know that under pressure his stamina might
:04:40. > :04:44.come back and it is difficult for him. That is what they were trying
:04:45. > :04:47.to incite. I have had experience first hand, a look at all of these
:04:48. > :04:54.anonymous and sometimes not anonymous quotes in the media. The
:04:55. > :05:03.spinning has begun against him? This is the party of brotherly love, no
:05:04. > :05:09.matter what the Tories say, we can say worse about each other. How
:05:10. > :05:15.could it be that two former aides to Gordon Brown do not like each other?
:05:16. > :05:20.Far be it from me to say. If he wanted to do it, and I'm not saying
:05:21. > :05:25.he does, is Mr Miliband ruthless enough to get rid of Ed Balls? I
:05:26. > :05:30.mean, he got rid of you, he got rid of his brother? One thing you should
:05:31. > :05:32.not do is under estimate Ed Miliband's capacity for
:05:33. > :05:38.ruthlessness. If he feels it is the right thing to do, he will do it.
:05:39. > :05:42.It's not just a matter of... Ed Balls is a big, powerful
:05:43. > :05:45.personality. He's great to interview because he is across his subject,
:05:46. > :05:49.you can have a really good argument with him, a man that knows his
:05:50. > :05:56.brief, his facts. But it's not just about the personality. There is a
:05:57. > :06:01.kind of sense that Labour needs to look forwards more on economic
:06:02. > :06:04.policy. Of course, the standard of living has been hugely successful
:06:05. > :06:09.for Labour. But it needs more than that on economic policy? I think he
:06:10. > :06:15.has been one of the most effective member 's Shadow Cabinet, and he's
:06:16. > :06:18.always associated with the Brown years, where there is always an
:06:19. > :06:23.element about, you were the guys that got it wrong. I think Ed
:06:24. > :06:26.Miliband will be very tempted to replace him with Alistair Darling.
:06:27. > :06:30.The scenario goes like this, Alistair Darling saves the union and
:06:31. > :06:34.then in September he saves the Labour Party. Ultimately, I don't
:06:35. > :06:37.think he would do it. Talk about shifting tectonic plates, it would,
:06:38. > :06:44.wouldn't it? But it is a step too far. Ed Balls would not be too
:06:45. > :06:55.happy. It is not something you would want to do lightly. That sounds a
:06:56. > :06:59.bit of a threat. Not from you. I can't see Ed Balls magnanimously
:07:00. > :07:04.retreating and say, go on, Alistair Darling, take the job I have been
:07:05. > :07:07.after all career. Where do you put him? Do you make him a middle
:07:08. > :07:12.ranking business or welfare secretary? He wouldn't do that. If
:07:13. > :07:18.you sack him, he would retreat to the backbenchers. He might take up
:07:19. > :07:21.knitting and practices piano scales, or he might have a blood feud with
:07:22. > :07:27.Ed Miliband. I don't know which could be. You look back to when he
:07:28. > :07:30.was schools Secretary, you could feel he was constantly fuming. I
:07:31. > :07:35.think he is better inside the tent, looking out, than the other way
:07:36. > :07:38.around. The thing one Labour strategist said to me was that he is
:07:39. > :07:42.too much looking into the rear-view mirror, when it comes to economic
:07:43. > :07:49.policy. He needs to look ahead through the windscreen. That had
:07:50. > :07:52.some resonance? He was at the centre of Labour's economic policy-making
:07:53. > :07:58.from the mid-90s. So it's hard for him but he has to look forward.
:07:59. > :08:01.There is an interesting comparison with 2009. Gordon Brown got in
:08:02. > :08:05.trouble when he said the choice is between Labour investment and Tory
:08:06. > :08:09.cuts. Everybody knew it was between Labour cuts and Tory cuts. In other
:08:10. > :08:12.words, he was not acknowledging reality. With Ed Balls, OK, we can
:08:13. > :08:17.say it is the wrong sort of recovery, but there is a recovery.
:08:18. > :08:19.Does he not need to absorb that punch and say there is a recovery,
:08:20. > :08:26.then people will listen to him? Possibly. We know that the
:08:27. > :08:30.macroeconomics are looking better. We also know people are not
:08:31. > :08:36.experiencing it as a recovery in living standards. No one, not even
:08:37. > :08:40.Tories, really believe that David Cameron knows what it is like for
:08:41. > :08:44.middle-income people to live normal lives. Living standards is
:08:45. > :08:47.particularly powerful because of the composition of the government? Don't
:08:48. > :08:52.go away. This time last year we ambushed our political panel with a
:08:53. > :08:55.quiz. They didn't come out of it smelling of roses, but they did come
:08:56. > :09:01.out rather smelly. Will the coalition still be in place
:09:02. > :09:09.a year from now? Yes. Definitely. I say definitely as well. From now,
:09:10. > :09:16.one year, will we know the date of the European referendum? Yes. No. I
:09:17. > :09:22.say no as well. How much growth will there be? Less than 1%. Father
:09:23. > :09:30.Christmas is less qualified than me, but I will go for one. I will go for
:09:31. > :09:37.a quarter of that. 0.4%. Sorry, a third of that. I am with you, and
:09:38. > :09:41.1%. We didn't do too badly. What will growth be next year? I will
:09:42. > :09:50.remind you, the OBR has upgraded to 2.4%. Better stick with the OBR, got
:09:51. > :09:55.it wrong last year. Well, they went down in March and then went back in
:09:56. > :09:57.December. I'm going to go under and claim credit where it's higher. I'm
:09:58. > :10:04.going to say 1%. Deliberately get it wrong. Given our record, if we say
:10:05. > :10:08.there is going to be spectacular growth, does it mean we're going to
:10:09. > :10:14.go into recession? There is incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2.4%,
:10:15. > :10:22.because the housing market in London is rocketing. It would be closer to
:10:23. > :10:29.3% and 2.4, mark my words. We'll Ed Balls be Shadow Chancellor by this
:10:30. > :10:37.time next year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, I value my life. Will UKIP mean the
:10:38. > :10:44.European elections, by which I mean have the highest percentage of the
:10:45. > :10:50.vote? Yes. Second behind Labour. Second behind Labour. Will Alex
:10:51. > :10:56.Salmond win the independence referendum? No, but it will be
:10:57. > :11:00.closer than we think. No, unless they do something catastrophic like
:11:01. > :11:08.let Cameron debate him. Too close to call. Controversial. How many
:11:09. > :11:17.Romanians and Bulgarians will come to Britain in 2014? Far fewer than
:11:18. > :11:20.anyone thinks. The entire population of Romania and Bulgaria, like Nigel
:11:21. > :11:26.Farage thanks. I'll go with that, I'm confident. A change of tone for
:11:27. > :11:31.your magazine. Not many will come, but a lot here already will
:11:32. > :11:37.normalise and be counted into figures. Too many for most
:11:38. > :11:40.right-wing commentators. I think quite a few will come, but not the
:11:41. > :11:50.kind of numbers that made such a huge difference. This time,
:11:51. > :11:54.everybody is open. They do like to speak English, that is the reason
:11:55. > :12:01.they want to come. We'll all three of you still be here by this time
:12:02. > :12:08.next year? Yes. Would you recommend that? Yes, keep them. And he has
:12:09. > :12:15.lovely boots. Shiny red boots. If you can keep affording me, I will be
:12:16. > :12:20.here. I hope so, it sounds like you have a firing squad outside. I hope
:12:21. > :12:29.so, maybe you will find some true talent. Very pragmatic, aren't they?
:12:30. > :12:32.Let me put this to you, I think you will agree. The coalition will not
:12:33. > :12:39.break now, this side of the election next year? There will not be... They
:12:40. > :12:45.will not go their own ways by this time next year? Of next year, maybe
:12:46. > :12:52.just after. Early 2015. This side of the election? What is the UKIP view?
:12:53. > :12:57.I don't think there is an advantage to either of them. If the Lib Dems
:12:58. > :13:00.pulled out, they would look like there were a lodger in the Tory
:13:01. > :13:04.house of government. I think it would suit the Lib Dems to break
:13:05. > :13:09.just before the election. I think that is what Vince Cable wants to
:13:10. > :13:16.do. I don't think it is what Nick Clegg would like to do. The Tories
:13:17. > :13:19.would love it. They would have all of the toys to themselves. Yellow
:13:20. > :13:22.marker they would look like the grown-ups. The problem for Vince
:13:23. > :13:24.Cable is that he's not the force that used to be after his temper
:13:25. > :13:33.tantrum at the Conference. I will be back with the Daily
:13:34. > :13:39.Politics next week. If Santer gives you a diary in your stocking, pencil
:13:40. > :13:46.in Sunday the 20th of January, the first Sunday Politics of 2014.
:13:47. > :13:48.Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Unless it is
:13:49. > :13:50.Christmas. And New Year.