19/01/2014

:00:37. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Nick Clegg says

:00:45. > :00:49.Chris Rennard must apologise. "What for?", say his friends. We'll ask

:00:50. > :00:54.senior Lib Dem minister Danny Alexander whose side he's on.

:00:55. > :00:58.What about the voters? What do they make of the Lib Dems? We hear the

:00:59. > :01:17.views of a Sunday Politics focus group. A donkey.

:01:18. > :01:20.Here in the east, David Cameron on tour, but there was no new money for

:01:21. > :15:21.road or rail. he did not make the announcement? I

:15:22. > :15:26.don't think that's right. I don t clear every word I say with him I

:15:27. > :15:34.don't expect him to do the same to me. The Lib Dems have told us before

:15:35. > :15:40.it was the Treasury that was blocking this from happening. We

:15:41. > :15:46.were going to ask the low pay commission to advise us on bringing

:15:47. > :15:51.the minimum wage back up. During the financial crisis, wages have been

:15:52. > :15:59.lower-than-expected but it's also right, we shouldn't act in a hasty

:16:00. > :16:04.way, we should listen to what the commission has to say, and if they

:16:05. > :16:10.don't recommend an increase we have to make sure economic conditions are

:16:11. > :16:14.there to get it right. Not only are the Tories getting credit for that,

:16:15. > :16:19.our Scottish voters group showed that people have still not forgiven

:16:20. > :16:23.you for ratting on tuition fees and that was a broken promise that

:16:24. > :16:29.didn't even apply to the people in Scotland, where there are no tuition

:16:30. > :16:38.fees! Nick Clegg has been very clear about the issues that that brought

:16:39. > :16:43.up. If you look at our manifesto, the University of London said we

:16:44. > :16:48.delivered about 70% of our policies in the manifesto. They haven't

:16:49. > :16:56.forgiven you for the big one. The big promise we made was to cut

:16:57. > :17:03.income tax the millions of people. That is a policy which is putting

:17:04. > :17:07.money back into the pockets of working people. It is only possible

:17:08. > :17:12.because we are delivering our economic plan in government with the

:17:13. > :17:18.Conservatives. Now we have to make sure, through tax cuts, through

:17:19. > :17:22.looking at issues like the minimum wage and other groups who have made

:17:23. > :17:29.sacrifices, make sure that benefit is shared. I am not going to agree

:17:30. > :17:32.to anything which undermines the confidence of businesses to invest

:17:33. > :17:41.in this country over the next 1 months. Speaking of Scotland, the

:17:42. > :17:45.Lib Dems, why do they now look largely irrelevant in the battle for

:17:46. > :17:52.the union? Not one of our focus group even knew who your Scottish

:17:53. > :17:58.leader is. I don't accept that. I have spent a lot of time with

:17:59. > :18:05.Alistair Carmichael and others, we are all making the case every day.

:18:06. > :18:10.If Scotland votes to be independent, it will be in a much worse financial

:18:11. > :18:17.position within the European Union. Scotland will be contributing to the

:18:18. > :18:22.rebate for the UK, rather than benefiting from it. It has been a

:18:23. > :18:26.disaster for your Scottish based to have joined a coalition with the

:18:27. > :18:30.Tories. It may have been the right thing to do, you say it is in the

:18:31. > :18:36.national interest, but Scottish Lib Dems did not expect to be in a

:18:37. > :18:40.coalition with the Tories. By the way I think it is also in the

:18:41. > :18:46.national interests and the interests of the people for Scotland, cutting

:18:47. > :18:53.the income tax of Scottish people, stabilising the economy. We are now

:18:54. > :18:59.seeing good growth. But you are in meltdown. I don't accept that. We

:19:00. > :19:05.will see what happens in the 20 5 election. I think we have a record

:19:06. > :19:09.to be proud of, we have played a very important role in clearing up

:19:10. > :19:13.the mess Labour made in the economy, of making sure the

:19:14. > :19:19.Coalition government tackles the problems in this country, but does

:19:20. > :19:21.so in a fair way. I think the biggest risks to the economic

:19:22. > :19:26.recovery over the next few biggest risks to the economic

:19:27. > :19:30.either a majority Labour government or a majority Conservative

:19:31. > :19:35.government. Labour you cannot trust with the finances, the Tories want

:19:36. > :19:38.us to play chicken with the European Union which would truly be a

:19:39. > :19:44.disaster to investment in this country. You announced this week

:19:45. > :19:48.that if Scotland votes to leave the UK, it would be the British Treasury

:19:49. > :19:53.that would guarantee all British government debt. There wouldn't be a

:19:54. > :19:57.negotiation, but the backstop would be that even if they didn't take

:19:58. > :20:02.anything, we would still guarantee the debt. What was happening in the

:20:03. > :20:07.markets that you needed to calm them down? We were getting quite a few

:20:08. > :20:13.questions from the people we rely on to lend us money. We are still

:20:14. > :20:17.borrowing billions of pounds every month as a country. Those people

:20:18. > :20:31.were asking us to clarify this point. It was becoming a serious

:20:32. > :20:34.concern? It wasn't reflected in the guilty yields. I follow the bond

:20:35. > :20:41.market quite carefully and there was no sign this was having an impact.

:20:42. > :20:45.That's why the right thing to do was to clarify this point now, rather

:20:46. > :20:52.than the concerns being reflected in what you imply, and I think it is a

:20:53. > :20:55.bad idea for Scotland to vote for separation but it would be wrong to

:20:56. > :21:00.allow for the fact that question is on the table to cost taxpayers in

:21:01. > :21:02.the UK more money and higher interest payments simply because

:21:03. > :21:08.Alex Salmond has put that question on the table. That's why I think it

:21:09. > :21:12.was the right thing to do. There were a lot of calls from the focus

:21:13. > :21:17.group that you need to be different. Nick Clegg has embarked on this

:21:18. > :21:22.aggressive differentiation. Where you can be different is the

:21:23. > :21:28.bankers' bonuses. What conceivable reason could there be for anybody at

:21:29. > :21:35.RBS getting a bonus twice in their salary? We have not been approached

:21:36. > :21:41.by RBS in terms of those votes. I would be sceptical

:21:42. > :21:44.by RBS in terms of those votes. I from RBS if it can. It shows

:21:45. > :21:50.by RBS in terms of those votes. I have presided over

:21:51. > :21:54.by RBS in terms of those votes. I government, massive reductions. .

:21:55. > :22:04.I'm not asking you about that, I'm asking what conceivable case there

:22:05. > :22:06.can be for a bank that has failed to sell its branches even though

:22:07. > :22:12.ordered by the Government, still has 38 billion of toxic debt on its

:22:13. > :22:18.balance sheet, I ask again what possible reason should they get

:22:19. > :22:27.twice salary as a bonus? Your right to say RBS is in a very different

:22:28. > :22:32.position to other banks, it is mostly owned by the state. RBS

:22:33. > :22:36.hasn't put a case to us but they might do so I would like to look at

:22:37. > :22:40.what they would say, but I would be sceptical as to whether a case could

:22:41. > :22:44.be made given some of the things you said, but also the fact that it is a

:22:45. > :22:51.bank that has benefited from the taxpayer standing behind it. Now RBS

:22:52. > :22:57.has to focus more on domestic retail. Let me turn to Chris

:22:58. > :23:02.Rennard, ten women have accused him of sexual harassment. He denies

:23:03. > :23:08.every case. Who do you believe? We have been through a process on this

:23:09. > :23:17.as a party. A report has been issued on this. I agree with Alistair

:23:18. > :23:21.Webster on this, he has made clear that while he cannot prove what

:23:22. > :23:26.happened to a criminal standard that there is clear there has been

:23:27. > :23:32.considerable distress and harm caused. I agree with him about that

:23:33. > :23:40.and that's why it is necessary for Chris Rennard to apologise as he has

:23:41. > :23:46.been asked to do. If he refuses to apologise, should he be denied the

:23:47. > :23:49.Lib Dem whip in the Lords? I don't think he should be readmitted to the

:23:50. > :23:55.Liberal Democrat group in the House of Lords until such time as the

:23:56. > :24:00.disciplinary process, including the apology, has been done properly We

:24:01. > :24:04.are very democratic party, it is a matter for our group in the House of

:24:05. > :24:09.Lords in due course to make that judgement. Party HQ has had a lot of

:24:10. > :24:14.complaints from party members about the fact no apology has been made.

:24:15. > :24:17.The appropriate committee would need to look at that and decide what

:24:18. > :24:24.action needs to be taken because these are very serious matters. We

:24:25. > :24:30.as a party have learned a lot, taken a long, hard look at ourselves, to

:24:31. > :24:37.change the way we work. The apology does need to be made. We are told

:24:38. > :24:41.that Lord Newby, the Chief Whip of the Liberal Democrats in the House

:24:42. > :24:46.of Lords, we are told he has shaken hands with Chris Rennard and

:24:47. > :24:54.welcomed him back. That decision has not been taken yet. I think Lord

:24:55. > :25:01.Newby would share my view on this. Have you shaken his hand and

:25:02. > :25:08.welcomed him back? No, I haven't. Does Nick Clegg have the power to

:25:09. > :25:12.deny Chris Rennard as the whip? I am making it clear that a lack of

:25:13. > :25:18.apology is totally unacceptable and therefore we have to take steps if

:25:19. > :25:23.that is not forthcoming. His view and my view is that Lord Rennard

:25:24. > :25:30.should not be readmitted to the House of Lords if that is not

:25:31. > :25:38.forthcoming. In our party, our group in the House of Lords has two in the

:25:39. > :25:44.end take a view for itself. And they can override Nick Clegg's view? I

:25:45. > :25:51.hope that when they look at this... Do they have the power to override

:25:52. > :26:01.Nick Clegg? They have the power to decide who should be the whip. The

:26:02. > :26:07.failure to follow up the simple human demand for an apology for the

:26:08. > :26:19.stress that has been caused is totally unacceptable. Your party is

:26:20. > :26:28.totally down lighted on this -- divided on this. Here is what Lord

:26:29. > :26:35.Carlile had to say. A total nonsense, hyperbole. It is a

:26:36. > :26:39.ridiculous statement to make and we have seen Alistair Webster, the QC

:26:40. > :26:43.who did this investigation, comment on that himself this morning. He has

:26:44. > :26:48.followed the process the party laid down in its rules, which sets the

:26:49. > :26:53.standard for the investigation which asked him to report on the evidence

:26:54. > :27:01.he has found, but he also has a duty of confidentiality and

:27:02. > :27:06.responsibility under the data protection legislation as well. Here

:27:07. > :27:18.is what your activists have said in a letter to the Guardian. This shows

:27:19. > :27:23.there are strong opinions, but why should Chris Rennard apologise for

:27:24. > :27:28.something he denies, unproven allegations, on an unpublished

:27:29. > :27:32.report that Chris Rennard has not been allowed to read? He should

:27:33. > :27:35.apologise because he wants to continue to be a member of the

:27:36. > :27:41.Liberal Democrats and this is the recommendation that has been made by

:27:42. > :27:47.the internal disciplinary process. Webster himself said this was not an

:27:48. > :27:53.inquiry, it is an opinion. If Chris Rennard apologises on this basis, he

:27:54. > :27:59.opens himself to civil lawsuits He says he is not going to do it. As a

:28:00. > :28:05.Liberal Democrat you join the party because you believe in its values,

:28:06. > :28:10.you abide by its rules. One of those rules is that we have a process if

:28:11. > :28:16.there are disciplinary allegations. The committee of the party supported

:28:17. > :28:19.Webster's recommendations, one of which was that an apology should be

:28:20. > :28:27.made because he clearly found distress had been caused. Will there

:28:28. > :28:37.now be a proper inquiry? I don't think any of these legalistic

:28:38. > :28:45.things, I don't think he can have it both ways. Will there be a proper

:28:46. > :28:49.inquiry? Alistair Webster did do a proper inquiry. There was a proper

:28:50. > :28:53.report into what happened at the time and we have learned a lot from

:28:54. > :28:59.this is a party, and the most important thing now is that Chris

:29:00. > :29:10.Rennard apologises. You have made that clear. What kind of biscuits

:29:11. > :29:16.are you? Are you a Tunnocks? Soft on the inside? It is good of you to be

:29:17. > :29:22.advertising a Scottish product. We just wondered if you weren't tough

:29:23. > :29:40.enough to take on Ed Balls. Thank you. More than tough enough is the

:29:41. > :29:44.answer to that. Generally governments are a bit

:29:45. > :29:47.rubbish at IT projects. They tend to run way over budget and never quite

:29:48. > :29:50.achieve what they promised. So the revelations of a former spy that the

:29:51. > :29:52.US and British security agencies were in fact astonishingly efficient

:29:53. > :29:55.at eavesdropping on the digital communications of their citizens

:29:56. > :29:57.came as a bit shock. But just how worried should we be about their

:29:58. > :30:00.clandestine activity? In his latest revelation, former US

:30:01. > :30:01.by Edward Snowden has claimed that America's National Security Agency

:30:02. > :30:07.operates a secret database called Dishfire. It collect 200 million

:30:08. > :30:14.mobile phone messages every day from around the world, accessed, he says,

:30:15. > :30:17.why British and American spies. This week, the president has outlined a

:30:18. > :30:22.series of surveillance reforms, including Ning to the storage of the

:30:23. > :30:29.phone call information of millions of Americans, and no Morse -- and no

:30:30. > :30:38.more spying on allies like Angela Merkel. Critics say that the British

:30:39. > :30:40.intelligence agencies have refused to acknowledge

:30:41. > :30:45.intelligence agencies have refused debate on the issue. The Foreign

:30:46. > :30:52.Secretary William six says that we have a very strong system of checks

:30:53. > :30:55.and balances. -- William Hague. ?? new line Nick Pickles is director of

:30:56. > :30:58.the pressure group Big Brother Watch. The Labour MP Hazel Blears in

:30:59. > :31:08.on Parliament's Intelligence And Security Committee. They're here to

:31:09. > :31:13.go head to head. Welcome to both of you. Hazel

:31:14. > :31:17.Blears, let me come to you first. President Obama has made some major

:31:18. > :31:23.changes as a result of what we have learned that the NSA in America was

:31:24. > :31:27.up to. But British politicians seem to, they are not up for this kind of

:31:28. > :31:31.thing, they are hoping it will go away? It is not going away and that

:31:32. > :31:36.is why my committee, the Intelligence And Security Committee,

:31:37. > :31:41.has decided to launch an enquiry into whether the legal framework is

:31:42. > :31:48.up-to-date. We have had massive technological change. We have had a

:31:49. > :31:54.call for evidence. Some of the sessions will be open so that people

:31:55. > :31:57.can see what the evidence is. Obviously some of the information

:31:58. > :32:01.will have to be classified, but on the committee, there is a real

:32:02. > :32:05.commitment to say, there is a big debate going on, let's see if the

:32:06. > :32:09.system is as Rob asked as we can make it. The big question is

:32:10. > :32:15.oversight and the call for evidence that the committee has issued is not

:32:16. > :32:18.mention oversight. It is ten years since the Foreign Affairs Committee

:32:19. > :32:24.said that the committee should be a fully elected committee chosen by

:32:25. > :32:31.Parliament and not the Prime Minister. It has changed, actually.

:32:32. > :32:41.The Prime Minister nominates people and the house gets to him -- gets to

:32:42. > :32:48.approve. In America, they have a separation of power, the president

:32:49. > :32:52.does not nominate Kennedy. Basically, Hazel Blears, you're an

:32:53. > :32:56.establishment lackey? I do not think so. Most of the people on the

:32:57. > :33:02.committee have some experience of intelligence and these issues. In

:33:03. > :33:07.this country, we have robust scrutiny, compared to some of her

:33:08. > :33:12.European neighbours. We have Parliamentary scrutiny, the

:33:13. > :33:16.interception commissioners, and ministers have to sign the warrants.

:33:17. > :33:20.But there may be room for improvement, which is why we are

:33:21. > :33:25.having the enquiry. Do not forget, President Obama said that the agency

:33:26. > :33:29.should not have the ability to collect data, he wanted to put more

:33:30. > :33:35.safeguards in. That is essential for the work of the agencies. If you

:33:36. > :33:40.cannot see the data, you cannot take the connections and see the

:33:41. > :33:44.patterns. Some people never talk about the threat from terrorism it

:33:45. > :33:49.is all about travesty. There are several thousand people in this

:33:50. > :33:52.country, as we are talking, who are actively planning to do a country

:33:53. > :33:58.harm. When this debate started in the US, the NSA head stood up and

:33:59. > :34:05.said there are 54 plots that have been detected by this capability

:34:06. > :34:11.that has detected and that in bulk. Now the head of the NSA has admitted

:34:12. > :34:17.that the number is actually zero. It is not the intelligence committee in

:34:18. > :34:22.the US that did the work to reduce that number, it was a Judiciary

:34:23. > :34:24.Committee. The fact that we have two different bodies doing this in this

:34:25. > :34:31.country, it means that you do not get the correct view. How can people

:34:32. > :34:37.have confidence in a body when if you go around Europe, for example,

:34:38. > :34:42.or the world, we are not at the end not requiring judges to not sign

:34:43. > :34:47.warrants? I do not accept that the committee failed on that range of

:34:48. > :34:52.issues. You look at the reports on 7/7. Two reports by the committee

:34:53. > :34:57.get to the heart of it. If you look at that terrorist attack on our

:34:58. > :35:01.country, people will say, why did you not have them on the radar? The

:35:02. > :35:07.agencies are between a rock and a hard race. They have got to be

:35:08. > :35:16.subject to oversight, but beanie capability. Did you know about

:35:17. > :35:20.Dishfire? We go to GCHQ on a regular basis and I know about the

:35:21. > :35:28.capabilities that we have got. Some of the names of these programmes, we

:35:29. > :35:32.would not necessarily know. But did you know that GCHQ had the

:35:33. > :35:37.capability to use Dishfire, or to get Dishfire material from the NSA?

:35:38. > :35:42.I knew and my committee knew that we had the capability to collect data,

:35:43. > :35:46.and these days, people do not write letters, they do not use landline

:35:47. > :35:51.telephones, they use the Internet and text in, so it is important that

:35:52. > :35:58.the agencies are able to keep up with that take the logical change.

:35:59. > :36:01.What should happen? The proper legal framework should include, if a

:36:02. > :36:07.company is cooperating, as Google and Facebook do, it should be

:36:08. > :36:13.illegal for GCHQ to hack into them. In the US, Lundberg estimate that

:36:14. > :36:17.this has driven a 35mm and hole in the US economy because people do not

:36:18. > :36:22.trust but there are systems are secure. We need to know that GCHQ

:36:23. > :36:27.are not trying to use a different door into the system, whether by

:36:28. > :36:34.hacking or foreign intelligence We need judicial oversight with judges

:36:35. > :36:38.and not politicians signing off The final 30 seconds to you. As a result

:36:39. > :36:42.of the changes in the Justice and Security act, the committee is

:36:43. > :36:46.accountable to Parliament and not the Prime Minister. Those changes

:36:47. > :36:52.are taking place, and I am up for the debate if we need more change or

:36:53. > :36:57.not. But I want British agencies to have more power to protect the

:36:58. > :37:00.people in this country. Thank you to both of you. It's coming up to

:37:01. > :37:04.11:40. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20

:37:05. > :37:05.minutes, we'll get the verdict of the Minister for Portsmouth on that

:37:06. > :37:36.dive from the Portsmouth MP. Ouch! Welcome to the Sunday politics in

:37:37. > :37:42.the East. Coming up, David Cameron's road trip to the region,

:37:43. > :37:46.but no promises of new money. Does that leave the East in the slow

:37:47. > :37:52.lane? Behind`the`scenes it has not been a great start to the New Year

:37:53. > :37:57.for the Conservatives. We meet the Romanians and bulky Aryans, but they

:37:58. > :38:07.are students, not workers. Many more could be on their way. ``

:38:08. > :38:14.Bulgarians. We have 2 euros MPs, for the Conservatives and Labour. First,

:38:15. > :38:20.the Prime Minister's trip to the region on Friday. He was singing the

:38:21. > :38:25.region's praises on road and rail projects. The big question, does the

:38:26. > :38:31.East get enough bang for its part? Traditionally, the answer has been

:38:32. > :38:35.that it does not. The East has been seen as a net contributor. People

:38:36. > :38:39.pay more in taxes than they get back, whether it is in roads or

:38:40. > :38:44.power stations. David Cameron came to East Anglia armed with new

:38:45. > :38:46.figures apparently showing the government is spending more here

:38:47. > :38:53.than anywhere else outside London. He started on Friday at the last

:38:54. > :39:02.single carriageway stretch of the 11th. It will be dual carriageway by

:39:03. > :39:04.September. Part of our infrastructure plan is to ensure

:39:05. > :39:11.that Britain has the roads and railways it needs to drive up growth

:39:12. > :39:16.and create jobs. This will help not just this part of the country but

:39:17. > :39:22.the whole economy. He moved on to Lowestoft. The plan is to extend the

:39:23. > :39:29.road. On the railways he spoke about faster times from London to Norwich.

:39:30. > :39:35.Classic picture opportunities. No new money. I'm really pleased we are

:39:36. > :39:39.getting more into infrastructure investment in the east of. I have

:39:40. > :39:50.campaigned for literally a decade under the last Labour government. ``

:39:51. > :39:58.east of. `` east of England. DA 14 is going ahead without tolls. His

:39:59. > :40:05.announcement on Friday contained nothing new. There has been huge

:40:06. > :40:13.amounts of new investment. The roots have come under the Conservative

:40:14. > :40:19.government. `` the roots. Was this picture opportunity? It important

:40:20. > :40:22.that he comes to see. The thing about investment is when you invest

:40:23. > :40:29.in your low growth. When you allow growth, you get jobs. That is what

:40:30. > :40:35.we are trying to do, unlock these blocks to get more jobs for people

:40:36. > :40:39.in the survey on. Labour had 14 years to upgrade this road. I do

:40:40. > :40:46.agree the Conservative party is in trouble, which sees vivid Cameron

:40:47. > :40:53.scampering up here to try and consolidate his base. `` David

:40:54. > :40:59.Cameron. The road was going to happen under Labour, and it was in

:41:00. > :41:06.the plans. The conservative `led government cancelled it. An alliance

:41:07. > :41:12.led by Norfolk county council proposed the third crossing. We can

:41:13. > :41:18.get into the nitty`gritty. Nevertheless, it is important, is it

:41:19. > :41:22.not, for the Prime Minister to be seen in this region. It gets the

:41:23. > :41:27.ball rolling, it makes people think that they are being noticed. If you

:41:28. > :41:32.are a real commuter coming down to Norwich, paying thousands of pounds

:41:33. > :41:37.in your season ticket, a 20% increase, being told there might be

:41:38. > :41:44.an improvement in the rail after the general election, that gives you no

:41:45. > :41:53.help whatsoever. From a Labour point of view, David Cameron showing how

:41:54. > :41:56.unpopular the Tories are. There is not enough time or money to do

:41:57. > :42:01.things before the next election and who knows what will happen after?

:42:02. > :42:08.Let's just remember when we started in 2010, there was no money left.

:42:09. > :42:13.The economy is coming back, and the top priority of that is

:42:14. > :42:16.infrastructure investment. If you need the Prime Minister to come and

:42:17. > :42:20.say that we will get the prime Minister to come and say that

:42:21. > :42:25.because that is what we are doing. As soon the economy is turning

:42:26. > :42:32.round, the money is coming for that. We have got lots of that in a

:42:33. > :42:36.moment. As you can imagine, everything was very tightly

:42:37. > :42:39.controlled for Mr Cameron's visit. No Conservative is going to rock the

:42:40. > :42:43.boat publicly when the PM is in town but it does not mean they are all

:42:44. > :42:49.happy or United. Why was he really here? Could it be because this

:42:50. > :42:55.region does not feel quite as true blue as usual? It has not been a

:42:56. > :43:00.great start to the year for the region's Conservatives. In Norfolk

:43:01. > :43:05.they are fighting amongst themselves over an incinerator. In Suffolk,

:43:06. > :43:11.they lost to council seats to UKIP. In Cambridgeshire, they cannot even

:43:12. > :43:20.organise an election properly. No wonder this constant tock about

:43:21. > :43:26.declining membership and party supporters who have had enough. ``

:43:27. > :43:30.constant speaking. Party supporters provide the local base and if you

:43:31. > :43:36.don't have that it is difficult to fight general elections. You do not

:43:37. > :43:39.have the people to go out and knock on doors. Activists feel they are

:43:40. > :43:46.used and abused because they are not being listened to. The complaints I

:43:47. > :43:52.hear are wide`ranging. The Liberal Democrats are too soft, the planning

:43:53. > :43:59.laws will ruin the Plumtree saved `` countryside. Gay marriage was a bad

:44:00. > :44:04.idea, and there is UKIP. UKIP should not be stealing our clothes. UKIP

:44:05. > :44:08.has been the main beneficiary of conservative unhappiness, making

:44:09. > :44:13.gains on Cambridgeshire, Essex and Norfolk county council is. Here in

:44:14. > :44:18.great Yarmouth, a recent poll put the party in second place, eight

:44:19. > :44:22.points behind Labour. There are general election candidate is a

:44:23. > :44:25.former Conservative. S what a lot of people thought about the Tories is

:44:26. > :44:30.they would be tough on immigration and work hard for jobs in the

:44:31. > :44:33.economy, and that is a big issue in great Yarmouth. They don't feel they

:44:34. > :44:41.are getting that and they feel the cuts that are being made really hit

:44:42. > :44:46.hard`working normal families. That takes away the attraction from a lot

:44:47. > :44:51.of ordinary working people. It is showing in the election results.

:44:52. > :44:54.There have been 17 council by`elections in the east since the

:44:55. > :44:58.summer. The Conservatives have held onto most of their seats, losing

:44:59. > :44:59.only three councillors, but in nearly every election therefore has

:45:00. > :45:22.been down. By 32% in Hever hill. Since the summer, the Tory vote has

:45:23. > :45:27.been down on average by 8%. This is more than just a story about UKIP. I

:45:28. > :45:31.am told that private polling by Labour and the Conservatives shows

:45:32. > :45:37.that not just in great Yarmouth but other key marginals like Ipswich,

:45:38. > :45:41.Bedford and Northampton, the Labour vote is really firming up. Former

:45:42. > :45:47.supporters are coming back into the fold and the Lib Dem vote is

:45:48. > :45:52.collapsing. The Conservatives are losing votes to UKIP but there is

:45:53. > :45:56.little evidence of them winning any new supporters. That needs to be a

:45:57. > :46:01.worry for the Conservatives, particularly in a region that has

:46:02. > :46:05.been so solidly blue. Whilst some MPs believe the solution is to get

:46:06. > :46:11.tough on Europe, others say the party needs to listen properly to

:46:12. > :46:13.voters. We have been slow to understand the expectations are

:46:14. > :46:20.changing, the country is crying out for political reform. Let's not

:46:21. > :46:24.blame UKIP, let's not blame the voter, let's recognise we need to up

:46:25. > :46:29.our game and compete. If we do it, we can win. It was no accident that

:46:30. > :46:33.the Prime Minister went to Lowestoft and Norwich. They are places where

:46:34. > :46:38.the party has a fight on their hands. It was no accident that he

:46:39. > :46:46.was talking about roads and trains. Will this be enough to improve his

:46:47. > :46:49.party's fortunes? You are well connected to the Conservative party.

:46:50. > :46:54.Are you going to tell me things are not that bad? You can always look

:46:55. > :46:58.into local election results and see what you want. We had a by`election

:46:59. > :47:05.that had a swing to the Conservatives from Labour. Labour

:47:06. > :47:12.majority in a safe Labour ward dropped by 80%. Labour votes went to

:47:13. > :47:19.UKIP. UKIP are taking votes from both sides. We are looking at 17

:47:20. > :47:24.by`election results. The week before Christmas, in a seat we had lost to

:47:25. > :47:31.UKIP, it came back to us in December. On average, Conservative

:47:32. > :47:36.vote has been down 8%. You have to compare apples with apples and a lot

:47:37. > :47:40.of these results, UKIP did not put seats up in previous elections.

:47:41. > :47:44.Whether it is to do with UKIP or not, the Conservative vote is down.

:47:45. > :47:50.If you compare it to the last European election, where we are

:47:51. > :47:55.right now... Where are we right now? We're coming up to a European

:47:56. > :47:59.election, and a lot of us understand why people are voting UKIP, they

:48:00. > :48:03.want to see change in Europe. I want to see change in Europe, the EU,

:48:04. > :48:09.renegotiation of the relationship, and a referendum. Labour does not

:48:10. > :48:15.want that. Lib Dems do not want that. Sadly, you did not have any

:48:16. > :48:19.chance of getting that if you did not vote any other party. The only

:48:20. > :48:26.way that you're going to get change in Europe, which is the key UKIP

:48:27. > :48:31.line, the only way to get that is by voting Conservative. That message, I

:48:32. > :48:35.have been with local council groups, last week in Suffolk,

:48:36. > :48:42.Cambridgeshire, Beds, they all get it. All the activists get it.

:48:43. > :48:48.Whether it is the UKIP phenomenon or not, at this stage, Labour should be

:48:49. > :48:58.streets ahead. The latest poll puts you at the present. That is not good

:48:59. > :49:02.news. The report showed that Labour votes are firming up. You should be

:49:03. > :49:13.doing Miles better. That Paul and great Yarmouth showed a big

:49:14. > :49:24.increase. Excuse me in trading on this private grief between the

:49:25. > :49:27.Conservatives and UKIP. Amid Suffolk councillors defecting, others like

:49:28. > :49:33.the Tory MP in Peterborough attending meetings with UKIP, the

:49:34. > :49:39.one in Mid Bedfordshire who said it should be a joint ticket. They don't

:49:40. > :49:43.know what they're doing. I've been with the council groups in three of

:49:44. > :49:50.the counties last week, Norfolk just before Christmas, there is unity. If

:49:51. > :49:54.everything was easy, you would not have questions. Is very unity? Look

:49:55. > :50:05.at Norfolk. We have Conservatives fighting against Conservatives. ``

:50:06. > :50:07.is there is unity. There is an interesting scenario there because

:50:08. > :50:16.local people are concerned about the incinerator. It is right to get

:50:17. > :50:25.value for money, which is what the county has tried to do. There is

:50:26. > :50:30.absolute unity amongst all groups of Conservatives over the fact that the

:50:31. > :50:35.numbers on that project have changed. They want to rerun the

:50:36. > :50:40.numbers. You may laugh but I don't laugh when public money is at stake.

:50:41. > :50:46.I believe you must get the best value for taxpayers money. However

:50:47. > :50:56.well you do, whoever you take votes from, this is going to remain a Tory

:50:57. > :50:59.region. Firstly, the figures have changed on the incinerator because

:51:00. > :51:03.the government cancelled the money they were going to give, forcing the

:51:04. > :51:09.hand of Norfolk county council. We will win seats in Norwich,

:51:10. > :51:13.Lowestoft, where David Cameron went, it is a good thing he did come

:51:14. > :51:16.because he won't be coming to Tory seats in those places for much

:51:17. > :51:19.longer. I want to move on to immigration because I know you have

:51:20. > :51:32.a lot to say on that. As of January the 1st, Romanians and bulky Aryans

:51:33. > :51:38.`` bulky and `` Bulgarians have come. Many of them are here already

:51:39. > :51:45.as students rather than workers. That number is set to rise. Here at

:51:46. > :51:53.the University of Bedfordshire there had 20,000 students. More than 200

:51:54. > :52:01.of them are Bulgarian and Romanian. This graduate is taking a postgrad

:52:02. > :52:09.degree in marketing. I hope to get a job here. Hopefully spend a couple

:52:10. > :52:14.of years here and then go back to Romania. She has been disappointed

:52:15. > :52:20.by the media storm over the lifting of EU restrictions on her fellow

:52:21. > :52:31.Romanian workers. I did not meet any British people who told me to go

:52:32. > :52:33.back home. But I'm really sad about the whole situation. This is the

:52:34. > :52:39.impressive international department. The University has a

:52:40. > :52:43.long history of recruiting foreign students and the marketing manager

:52:44. > :52:49.is Romanian. The Mac although the office is open from Monday to

:52:50. > :52:58.Friday, I am on the telephone 24 hours a day, with problems,

:52:59. > :53:03.families, they find the contact person is me. I am the face when I

:53:04. > :53:10.go abroad. Of the universities in the East, Essex has the most

:53:11. > :53:15.students from these areas. The total is likely to grow. The limit on the

:53:16. > :53:20.number of students will be lifted next year and universities like Beds

:53:21. > :53:27.are going all out to recruit more. With the lifting of the limit, this

:53:28. > :53:31.will not be displacing UK students, we have further opportunities to

:53:32. > :53:37.expand numbers. We are looking to elsewhere in Europe, Romania,

:53:38. > :53:41.Bulgaria, the evidences the students are hard`working, enterprising, and

:53:42. > :53:46.they are attracted to come to universities like this. Good news

:53:47. > :53:53.for students like this, who were surprised to find others in their

:53:54. > :53:59.class. I know from my former life as a member of Parliament that

:54:00. > :54:03.migration is a very sensitive subject and people have legitimate

:54:04. > :54:10.concerns, but I don't think some of the press coverage has been

:54:11. > :54:14.accurate. Here and our other universities expect to increase the

:54:15. > :54:22.number of students in significant way. The more students we have here,

:54:23. > :54:27.the more people are going to stay on, that is going to put pressure

:54:28. > :54:31.on, isn't it? I just completely disagree. I have been with that

:54:32. > :54:38.university also Anglia University. The current government policy to

:54:39. > :54:41.restrict foreign students was completely wrong because the

:54:42. > :54:46.students pay over the odds, subsidise more British students

:54:47. > :54:49.being able to go, by having international presence in the

:54:50. > :54:54.lecture halls, it provides a better student experience for British

:54:55. > :54:57.students, and the vast majority of the students go back, develop

:54:58. > :55:02.careers themselves in business, politics, having studied in Britain,

:55:03. > :55:05.become lifelong friends of this country. It shows how wrong the

:55:06. > :55:08.debate is about immigration that the government wants to stop young

:55:09. > :55:16.people coming in who are going to help Britain in future years, and

:55:17. > :55:20.I'm glad that region is helping turnaround. Let's talk about the

:55:21. > :55:24.tone of the debate. That student said she was quite sad and shocked

:55:25. > :55:30.by the tone of this debate that has been played out. I don't think there

:55:31. > :55:36.is any plan to stop students from other parts of the EU, although

:55:37. > :55:40.there is a review of student loans. The University of Bedfordshire is

:55:41. > :55:47.doing an amazing job, taking local students, often students who get low

:55:48. > :55:52.markings in A`levels, nine out of ten go on to get graduate jobs. That

:55:53. > :55:57.is fantastic. Part of that is because they have this open approach

:55:58. > :56:00.to business led degrees. That is why people want to come from other

:56:01. > :56:04.countries. We need to look at people who are coming to the country and

:56:05. > :56:08.not working. That is why we are doing things like forming benefits

:56:09. > :56:15.to make sure you cannot just come into the UK sign`on and... This is

:56:16. > :56:19.really important, UKIP claim they are going to sort out immigration.

:56:20. > :56:23.There was a vote this Thursday on freedom of movement in the European

:56:24. > :56:26.Parliament. There was a vote on this key issue that you could say they

:56:27. > :56:32.are going to sort out. I was there voting, Richard was voting, Nigel

:56:33. > :56:39.Farage did not turn up. They cannot be trusted to sort out these

:56:40. > :56:42.problems. Richard, if you earn ten times as much in a rich country in

:56:43. > :56:48.Europe, there is going to be pressure on the rich countries. But

:56:49. > :56:52.we are all better off because trade in the European Union, every family

:56:53. > :56:56.in the Eastern and is ?3000 better off because of that extra trade. The

:56:57. > :57:00.Conservatives did not transfer your question about the tone of the

:57:01. > :57:04.immigration debate. I'm afraid, what the Tory Party has done is created

:57:05. > :57:10.this negative debate about immigration and it is surprised to

:57:11. > :57:14.find itself losing to UKIP. Very quickly on tone. There needs to be a

:57:15. > :57:17.very sensitive review to make sure that when people come to this

:57:18. > :57:21.country they are coming here for work. They are not putting pressure

:57:22. > :57:28.on services, benefits, and that is what we need to look at very

:57:29. > :57:35.sensitively across the country. It has been a busy week. Elsewhere in

:57:36. > :57:40.politics , more problems with hospitals and a reprimand for our

:57:41. > :57:48.New figures obtained by the Labour seconds.

:57:49. > :57:53.New figures obtained by the Labour Party should the NHS is spending

:57:54. > :57:58.much more on temporary doctors in accident and emergency departments.

:57:59. > :58:06.The worst in the region is Kettering general. We need to see a hospital

:58:07. > :58:10.tackling this issue seriously and employing more permanent staff

:58:11. > :58:13.generally. Down the road, Northampton general faces the most

:58:14. > :58:16.difficult inspection today after concerns were raised about patient

:58:17. > :58:21.care. Last year, the hospital was singled out for high death rates.

:58:22. > :58:24.The Labour police and crime Commissioner for Beds was given a

:58:25. > :58:30.written reprimand after he admitted giving away confidential information

:58:31. > :58:34.about the death of a man in police custody. The reaction I have had is

:58:35. > :58:38.people accept that even police commissioners can make mistakes, and

:58:39. > :58:44.that is it. Finally, first from Ilton key is, the council wants to

:58:45. > :58:46.spend formally in pounds buying homes to rent. Councillors say it

:58:47. > :58:53.would reduce the number of homeless people living in bed`and`breakfast.

:58:54. > :59:06.Richard, the Milton Keynes Dons in solution. Is it good? `` housing

:59:07. > :59:09.solution. There are many households in the East and with problems, we

:59:10. > :59:15.see the problems in the health service, these local doctors costing

:59:16. > :59:18.?1500 per day, it shows that this government has been assessed by the

:59:19. > :59:22.structure but has stopped minding the delivery of health. This is a

:59:23. > :59:29.prime example. We were talking about housing. It is a big issue. I am

:59:30. > :59:31.pleased to see a Conservative council trying to come up with a

:59:32. > :59:38.creative solution that will allow them to be a bit nimble. Housing for

:59:39. > :59:42.homeless people can be a big hit on the local council. If this gives

:59:43. > :59:48.them a bit more control of the situation, Cambridge City Council

:59:49. > :59:53.looking at doing something similar, to guarantee private landlord rent,

:59:54. > :59:56.to try to have a small stock of readily available houses for those

:59:57. > :00:03.who find themselves most in need. It is a lot of money. Look, not only is

:00:04. > :00:06.homelessness increasing in the region, but the numbers depending on

:00:07. > :00:11.housing benefit have doubled since the Tory led government came in. The

:00:12. > :00:14.Councillors are being faced with huge dilemmas but the problem is we

:00:15. > :00:20.are not building enough homes. Thank you. That is all for now. You can

:00:21. > :00:22.keep in touch via the website. You will find

:00:23. > :00:32.keep in touch via the website. You houses being built by the mayor

:00:33. > :00:37.Andrew, back to you. Welcome back. Now she made quite a splash last

:00:38. > :00:41.night. I am talking, of course, of the Portsmouth North MP, Penny

:00:42. > :00:44.Mordaunt. If you missed her first appearance in ITV's celebrity diving

:00:45. > :00:59.competition show, here she is in action.

:01:00. > :01:17.APPLAUSE Here is a lady who is more used to

:01:18. > :01:23.campaigning for votes than diving for them. She created far too much

:01:24. > :01:34.rotation. Hard work has gone into the start of this dive to try and

:01:35. > :01:37.control it. That looked painful Now the Portsmouth North MP got voted

:01:38. > :01:40.off the show last night but what about the verdict that really

:01:41. > :01:43.matters? The newly appointed Minister for Portsmouth, Michael

:01:44. > :01:50.Fallon, is here. Welcome to the programme. I would give her ten out

:01:51. > :01:54.of ten for bravery. I was cheering her on. She was doing this for a

:01:55. > :02:01.local charity, raising money for the local swimming pool. She was a good

:02:02. > :02:05.sport. As Minister for Portsmouth, can we expect to see you in your

:02:06. > :02:09.swimming trunks for the next series? I do not think I have the

:02:10. > :02:13.spare time at the moment. But there is a big challenge in Portsmouth.

:02:14. > :02:15.spare time at the moment. But there Penny Mordaunt and

:02:16. > :02:17.spare time at the moment. But there MPs there have

:02:18. > :02:22.spare time at the moment. But there asking ministers to help the city.

:02:23. > :02:32.They are losing jobs. There is a goblin Trinity -- there is a big

:02:33. > :02:36.opportunity to create jobs. Should she have been on a celebrity

:02:37. > :02:41.television show of their role these problems in Portsmouth? This was in

:02:42. > :02:45.her spare time and it is raising money for a good cause. I do not

:02:46. > :02:51.think we should eat two sniffy about it. Did I not see you dressed up on

:02:52. > :02:58.Thursday night, doing your programme? This is my job. This is

:02:59. > :03:09.not her job. It was in her spare time, she was raising money for a

:03:10. > :03:14.local charity. Your Minister for Portsmouth. Are we going to have a

:03:15. > :03:17.minister for every town? Are we going to have a minister for

:03:18. > :03:22.Chipping Sodbury? Chipping Sodbury does not have the issues that

:03:23. > :03:29.Portsmouth have -- that Portsmouth has. There are jobs at risk in

:03:30. > :03:35.shipbuilding. The government puts in a lot of money through the regional

:03:36. > :03:40.growth fund, some ?20 million. There are range of government funding

:03:41. > :03:45.streams going into Portsmouth. My job is to make sure that is properly

:03:46. > :03:48.coordinated. I need to make sure that Portsmouth seizes this

:03:49. > :03:53.opportunity to develop a more broadly -based marine and maritime

:03:54. > :03:58.economy. To make sure a marginal seat stays Tory at the next

:03:59. > :04:08.election? There are marginal seats everywhere. There is a Liberal

:04:09. > :04:11.Democrat marginal the -- seat. Vince Cable and I have been working

:04:12. > :04:17.together for the issues that Portsmouth is facing. We work on

:04:18. > :04:20.these things together. But I have the very specific job of making sure

:04:21. > :04:26.that the effort on the ground is coordinated. So Vince Cable is not

:04:27. > :04:31.the Minister for Portsmouth? I have been there recently, so has Vince

:04:32. > :04:37.Cable. So there are two ministers for Portsmouth? Just a minute. I am

:04:38. > :04:41.making sure that the effort is properly coordinated on the ground.

:04:42. > :04:46.I am determined to turn this challenging time into a proper

:04:47. > :04:52.opportunity. Should we be to Paul faced about this? No, good honour.

:04:53. > :04:56.How much money would be have to pay you to get into a swimming costume?

:04:57. > :05:03.Bid is not enough money in the BBC covers. Good on her. It took seven

:05:04. > :05:09.years to get a leg there's an MP. She should be a minister. It is a

:05:10. > :05:14.pity she has the spare time to do this. She is very talented. It is

:05:15. > :05:19.interesting about the Minister for Portsmouth, up in the north-east

:05:20. > :05:25.they must be sad that they do not have any marginal seats. Nick Brown

:05:26. > :05:31.as David Cameron last July, can we have a minister for the north-east,

:05:32. > :05:35.and the Prime Minister is said no? Does this mean that Portsmouth is

:05:36. > :05:40.more deprived economic late than the north-east? No, it means it is a

:05:41. > :05:43.marginal seat. The Labour Leader Ed Miliband was on

:05:44. > :05:46.the Andrew Marr programme this morning and he outlined plans under

:05:47. > :05:49.a Labour government for an annual competition audit. Here is what he

:05:50. > :05:51.had to say. The next Labour government will have an annual

:05:52. > :05:56.competition at it, not just done by the regulatory body. Alongside them

:05:57. > :06:00.will be the citizens advice bureau, setting the agenda for the future,

:06:01. > :06:05.setting the agenda for how we can ensure that competition will benefit

:06:06. > :06:09.consumers and businesses. I want to see Labour going into the next

:06:10. > :06:13.election as the party of competition, the party of the

:06:14. > :06:17.consumer, the party of hard-pressed working families who are struggling.

:06:18. > :06:21.They need somebody to deal with those issues and that is what the

:06:22. > :06:26.next Labour government will do. I thought you were meant to be the

:06:27. > :06:31.party of competition? We are the party of competition. This is the

:06:32. > :06:35.party that has given us some of these problems. We have an annual

:06:36. > :06:41.competition review in the energy sector. We have already tackling

:06:42. > :06:45.banking. What is interesting about his proposal is it is the smaller

:06:46. > :06:51.ones who are less sure about this, the smaller banks who think that

:06:52. > :06:54.this could inhibit the growth. It is the smaller energy companies who

:06:55. > :06:57.think that through interfering with the market, through his price

:06:58. > :07:03.freeze, that he will hinder competition. We spoke about this

:07:04. > :07:09.before. It is a clever pitch that Ed Miliband is making. Under the guise

:07:10. > :07:14.of token markets and claiming to be the party of competition, he is

:07:15. > :07:20.creating the reason for state intervention? -- broken markets

:07:21. > :07:26.Exactly, and it is state intervention that does not work

:07:27. > :07:31.There is a proud tradition in government of smashing open cartels.

:07:32. > :07:36.Teddy Roosevelt did it nearly a century ago. The problem is, in

:07:37. > :07:41.those situations it was clear and obvious that the consumers were

:07:42. > :07:46.suffering. I am not sure it is entirely obvious in this country. In

:07:47. > :07:50.the banking sector we have free current accounts in the high street.

:07:51. > :07:55.That is not true in all Western countries. In the energy sector our

:07:56. > :08:00.bills are not outlandish they high. It is when we take taxes into

:08:01. > :08:05.account the become unaffordable He has to make the case that consumers

:08:06. > :08:10.are suffering as a result of these monopolies. Ed Miliband would say it

:08:11. > :08:16.is not about state intervention but about making markets work. The piece

:08:17. > :08:21.that was written by his intellectual Duryea about the significance and

:08:22. > :08:25.the importance of Teddy Roosevelt. He was the Republican president in

:08:26. > :08:32.the yearly -- in the early years of the last century. He wanted markets

:08:33. > :08:38.to work. There is an interesting debate on Twitter this morning. Tim

:08:39. > :08:46.Montgomerie is saying, why are we, the Conservative Party, not seen as

:08:47. > :08:52.the party of Teddy Roosevelt? We are seen as the party of business.

:08:53. > :08:56.There are smaller energy companies competing against the big six. In

:08:57. > :09:01.banking, we have seen smaller companies coming. It was the Labour

:09:02. > :09:06.government that created the big six energy companies. I think Teddy

:09:07. > :09:11.Roosevelt also invaded Cuba and the Philippines. That could give us a

:09:12. > :09:18.clue as to Ed Miliband's foreign policy. Nigel Farage has promised to

:09:19. > :09:22.purge the party of its more extreme candidates ahead of the European

:09:23. > :09:29.Council elections in May. But that may not be going so well. Listen to

:09:30. > :09:36.this. The latest in this process is these homosexual laws. And Thomas I

:09:37. > :09:41.shall manage. I believe that the Prime Minister, who was warned that

:09:42. > :09:48.disasters would follow a three went in this direction, he has persisted,

:09:49. > :09:55.and I believe that this is largely a repercussion from this godlessness

:09:56. > :09:59.that he has persisted in. The instructions I have got from now on,

:10:00. > :10:05.or is just not to answer in, and not to give interviews such as this one.

:10:06. > :10:10.So you are ignoring them? I am not ignoring them. But you are talking

:10:11. > :10:17.to me? You are the last one I shall be speaking to. I think it is too

:10:18. > :10:19.late. Who would have thought it It is not global warming that is

:10:20. > :10:26.causing the floods, it is gay marriage? That explains it. Last

:10:27. > :10:31.year David Cameron offered a coded retraction of his statement that

:10:32. > :10:37.UKIP is full of fruit cakes. I think he will be tempted to retract the

:10:38. > :10:40.retraction. It is a warning to lots of Tories who think that their best

:10:41. > :10:48.interests are served by flirting with lace -- with UKIP. Nigel Farage

:10:49. > :10:53.is a very plausible guy, but several layers down, there are people who

:10:54. > :10:57.are very different. Nigel Farage is saying that he's going to clear the

:10:58. > :11:02.party out of what Mr Cameron called the fruitcakes. If he is true to his

:11:03. > :11:08.word, Mr Sylvester's days in the party should they numbered. If Nigel

:11:09. > :11:20.Farage falls under the bus, what is left of place -- what is left of

:11:21. > :11:24.UKIP? People say that they like UKIP because unlike other politicians,

:11:25. > :11:28.they speak their mind. But as it turns into more of a proper

:11:29. > :11:33.organisation, people speaking their mind will be less acceptable. The

:11:34. > :11:40.European elections are always a protest vote. People are not happy

:11:41. > :11:43.with the elite. You will get people saying utterly ridiculous things

:11:44. > :11:48.like that man in Henley-on-Thames. But this is a chance to vote against

:11:49. > :11:57.the entire political establishment. I am not sure that comments like

:11:58. > :12:00.that will make much of a difference. There are lots of arguments about

:12:01. > :12:07.climate change. That was certainly a new one! They are the only big

:12:08. > :12:12.protest party at the moment. Protest party is obviously hoovered up lots

:12:13. > :12:15.of votes. We have got to be clear in European message that we are the

:12:16. > :12:21.only party that can reform Europe and give people a proper choice the

:12:22. > :12:25.first referendum in over 40 years. Mr Sylvester used to be a

:12:26. > :12:30.conservative. You're probably glad to see the back of him? David

:12:31. > :12:34.Cameron is right, there are probably a few fruitcakes around there. I

:12:35. > :12:41.think that mainstream conservatives will understand that this is the

:12:42. > :12:46.only party that can secure European reform and give people the choice

:12:47. > :12:50.they have been arguing for. Whatever happens in the European elections,

:12:51. > :12:54.it is a protest vote. We have almost run out of time. We will see this

:12:55. > :13:00.week of Chris Rennard gets the party whip act. There is a battle brewing

:13:01. > :13:05.between Danny Alexander and the common side of the Liberal Democrats

:13:06. > :13:09.and the House of Lords. If he turns up on Monday and asks to be let in,

:13:10. > :13:19.I they going to make a big scene at the gate of Parliament? And the

:13:20. > :13:23.issue will stay in the papers? Yes, they are clearly nervous that Lord

:13:24. > :13:29.Rennard might be tempted to mount a legal bid. That is all for today.

:13:30. > :13:31.Rennard might be tempted to mount a Thanks to all my guests.

:13:32. > :13:32.Rennard might be tempted to mount a Politics is back on

:13:33. > :13:38.Rennard might be tempted to mount a on BBC Two. And I will be here again

:13:39. > :13:40.next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.