:00:37. > :00:42.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The unions helped
:00:43. > :00:46.him beat his brother to the top Now Ed Miliband wants to change Labour's
:00:47. > :00:50.relationship with them. Who will come out on top? We will be asking
:00:51. > :00:52.one union baron what he thinks. Cracks in the coalition after
:00:53. > :00:57.Education Secretary Michael Gove sacks the chairwoman of Ofsted. His
:00:58. > :01:00.Lib Dem deputy is said to be hopping mad. We will be talking to the new
:01:01. > :01:04.deputy leader of the Lib Dems, Malcolm Bruce.
:01:05. > :01:06.Caught a bout of the EU blues? David Cameron has been drowning his
:01:07. > :01:10.sorrows with the President of France. Who better? We will be
:01:11. > :01:14.asking if the EU referendum bill is dead in the water.
:01:15. > :01:17.And bad weather getting you down? Getting from A to B a bit of a
:01:18. > :01:19.nightmare? Fear not! The leader of the Greens will be here with her
:01:20. > :01:27.traffic and travel report. Dutch Balancing the books.
:01:28. > :01:37.lunchtime news. Balancing the books.
:01:38. > :01:47.Will it provide the kind of reassurance people want?
:01:48. > :01:51.Yes, all that and more in today s action-packed Sunday Politics. And
:01:52. > :01:57.blowing more hot air than I have had hot dinners, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt
:01:58. > :01:59.and Iain Martin. After the row about candidate
:02:00. > :02:02.selection in Falkirk, Ed Miliband said he wanted to reshape the
:02:03. > :02:06.relationship between Labour and the unions. The biggest changes involve
:02:07. > :02:11.union membership of the party, which in turn will affect future Labour
:02:12. > :02:16.leadership elections. Some claim this is Ed's Clause 4 moment. But
:02:17. > :02:19.the unions will continue to be powerful at conference and on the
:02:20. > :02:23.party's ruling committees, and they will still be able to bankroll the
:02:24. > :02:33.election campaign. Here is Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman,
:02:34. > :02:36.speaking earlier. What he is proposing for the March the 1st
:02:37. > :02:40.conference is a huge change in financing, in the election of the
:02:41. > :02:46.leader, in what goes on at local level. In due course, it might have
:02:47. > :02:49.implications for the NEC elections and conference. But this is already
:02:50. > :02:52.a big issue to take forward. Joining me now is Paul Kenny,
:02:53. > :03:02.general secretary of the GMB union and chair of the Trade Union and
:03:03. > :03:09.Labour Party Liaison Organisation. Is this Ed Miliband's Clause 4
:03:10. > :03:13.moment? I don't know about that It is certainly a bold move,
:03:14. > :03:17.particularly to have an electoral college, which as you said was the
:03:18. > :03:24.system which elected him in the first place. Everybody admits that
:03:25. > :03:28.has needed reforming for some time. Moving to a one member, one vote
:03:29. > :03:36.situation seems to me to be sensible. I know some people are
:03:37. > :03:40.upset, mostly MPs, who will lose their golden share. But it is
:03:41. > :03:49.nonsense that one MP should have the same vote as 1000 party members So
:03:50. > :04:00.the MPs have lost out. Have the unions lost out? Well, the system is
:04:01. > :04:04.currently that union members get a ballot paper, but they have to
:04:05. > :04:09.declare that they are a Labour supporter and they have to sign to
:04:10. > :04:15.that effect in order to participate. Then their vote is counted. At the
:04:16. > :04:19.last election, about 200,000 trade union members gave that indication,
:04:20. > :04:26.and they participated in that way. That will not change. The way it is
:04:27. > :04:31.organised will be different. The big change in the electoral college is
:04:32. > :04:38.that the logical weight given to MPs will disappear. I wonder if you have
:04:39. > :04:41.really lost anything. At the moment, there are about 3 million people
:04:42. > :04:47.automatically affiliated from the unions to the Labour Party. If only
:04:48. > :04:52.10% of them opt in, that will still mean twice as many union individual
:04:53. > :05:00.members, 300,000, versus about 180,000 Labour Party members. So
:05:01. > :05:04.union members and maybe even the unions will have as big an influence
:05:05. > :05:10.on the leadership elections as you do now, maybe bigger? Well, they are
:05:11. > :05:15.individual votes. Different unions support different candidates. It is
:05:16. > :05:21.lost in the media myth of barons and block votes, but there is an
:05:22. > :05:25.individual vote. Different unions recommend different candidates, and
:05:26. > :05:30.union members vote accordingly. Ed Miliband won more individual votes
:05:31. > :05:37.by a country mile than David, but it got messed up in the process of this
:05:38. > :05:42.electoral college. As I have understood the proposals so far
:05:43. > :05:49.they are not a done deal. There is a lot of discussion. But it seems
:05:50. > :05:52.there are three hurdles. Firstly, union members themselves will have
:05:53. > :05:56.to agree whether they want to affiliate to the Labour Party. If
:05:57. > :06:02.they don't, the rest of it falls. If they decide they do my they will ask
:06:03. > :06:06.union members to support that an individual basis the next five
:06:07. > :06:11.years, which will have financial implications. Then there will be a
:06:12. > :06:15.third position, which is that people who may want to agree with the
:06:16. > :06:19.union's position and affiliate with the Labour Party may want to go
:06:20. > :06:22.further and become active supporters of the Labour Party, participating
:06:23. > :06:28.in leadership elections. They will have to give their sanction to that
:06:29. > :06:31.at a third stage. So the implications in terms of
:06:32. > :06:38.constituency parties and so on are a lot less than the idea that the 3
:06:39. > :06:42.million who are currently affiliated will change. At the moment, the
:06:43. > :06:49.unions, because of the automatic affiliation, hand over a affiliation
:06:50. > :06:52.fees of about ?8 million a year to Labour. You will now get to keep
:06:53. > :07:00.that money, because the individuals will have to put up the money
:07:01. > :07:03.themselves. You can keep that money and determine if you give it to
:07:04. > :07:08.Labour to fight the election campaign, correct? Incorrect.
:07:09. > :07:12.Firstly, the affiliation fees are paid from what is called the
:07:13. > :07:17.political fund, which most unions have to set up in order to
:07:18. > :07:23.participate. The union will continue to pay the ?3 a affiliation fee for
:07:24. > :07:32.those members who want the union to be affiliated. But you get to keep a
:07:33. > :07:37.lot more money. In reality, we will see a transitional period of a few
:07:38. > :07:44.years. Less people will probably say yes, depending on how popular Labour
:07:45. > :07:48.are, about whether they want the union to give money to the Labour
:07:49. > :08:03.Party. The GMB has already done this. By the way, don't call me
:08:04. > :08:06.kneel. It is Andrew or Mr Neil. The unions will have a bigger chunk of
:08:07. > :08:10.money because the unions will not be handing over all of the money at one
:08:11. > :08:14.time. But you could still play a major part in funding the Labour
:08:15. > :08:20.election campaign. We'll how much you give the dependent on what the
:08:21. > :08:28.Labour Party puts in its manifesto? Of course it will. It will have to
:08:29. > :08:33.justify our support to Labour for the members who provide money to the
:08:34. > :08:37.political fund. If we did not argue for the cert is social justice
:08:38. > :08:41.campaigns and laws we want to see, we would be failing in our job. I
:08:42. > :08:45.don't intend to hide that from anybody. The unions are there to
:08:46. > :08:52.fight for their members. That is our job. So you will still be a major
:08:53. > :08:56.part of the bankroll of the Labour campaign. You will still have 5 % of
:08:57. > :09:00.the votes at a Labour conference, and you will still have a major part
:09:01. > :09:04.in the Labour National executive committee and the policy committee.
:09:05. > :09:14.It is right to say the unions are still at the heart of Labour, are
:09:15. > :09:16.they not? Well, if you sick to break the affiliated link between trade
:09:17. > :09:22.unions and the Labour Party, the whole thing collapses. That is what
:09:23. > :09:26.anchors the Labour Party as far as we are concerned. Many of our
:09:27. > :09:31.members think that when they want to look for ferrochrome and rights
:09:32. > :09:33.social justice, housing and the health service, Labour are better it
:09:34. > :09:38.quipped to deliver that for working people than the current parties
:09:39. > :09:43.That is why we have traditionally supported them. But not at all of
:09:44. > :09:49.our members support Labour, which is why we don't affiliate all of them
:09:50. > :09:53.to Labour. There are over 30 million people in the British labour force
:09:54. > :10:04.now. Union membership is only 6 5 million out of that 30. A 6.5% of
:10:05. > :10:10.that do not vote Labour, they vote Tory or liberal or nationalist in
:10:11. > :10:17.Scotland. So you are a relatively small pressure group. Why should
:10:18. > :10:21.Labour be in thrall to you? We are the biggest voluntary organisation
:10:22. > :10:27.in this country. Sorry about that, but that is the fact. People make
:10:28. > :10:30.conscious choices. My own union the GMB, has been growing for eight
:10:31. > :10:36.years. So this dying picture you are trying to paint... In terms of
:10:37. > :10:40.accounting for the fact that some do not support Labour, that is why
:10:41. > :10:48.unions do not affiliate all of their members to the Labour Party. We have
:10:49. > :10:52.adjusted to that. If you don't like being called Neil, I don't like
:10:53. > :11:00.being called a barren either. What about Mr Baron? I don't like that
:11:01. > :11:02.either. We are representatives of working organisations. It may be
:11:03. > :11:07.inconvenient for politicians to have to listen to working people, but we
:11:08. > :11:15.will continue to press. Lord Baron, thank you very much.
:11:16. > :11:19.So, is this a Clause 4 moment for Ed Miliband? Not really, but to his
:11:20. > :11:22.credit, he is going ahead with this. There was a point at which it looked
:11:23. > :11:27.as though Ed Miliband would back away from reform. To his credit he
:11:28. > :11:33.is trying to create a mass membership party again. But when it
:11:34. > :11:35.comes to the crucial business of funding a general election campaign,
:11:36. > :11:42.these reforms will make Labour more reliant on large donations from
:11:43. > :11:46.trade unions. They could have more power now, because they get to hold
:11:47. > :11:52.back this money, whereas beforehand, they had to hand it over
:11:53. > :11:59.automatically. As Mr Kenny just said, how much they handover will be
:12:00. > :12:03.dependent on good behaviour. Yes, but these are pragmatic reforms The
:12:04. > :12:06.fact that Ed Miliband has a lot of capital in not being seen as a
:12:07. > :12:10.Blairite has helped him get these through . The response has been
:12:11. > :12:15.muted, which suggests good party management on his behalf. That may
:12:16. > :12:18.be because they will still have 50% of the votes at a party conference.
:12:19. > :12:22.Mr Kenny was clear that that could be deal-breaker if they tried to
:12:23. > :12:28.take that away. They have more places at the NEC than anyone else,
:12:29. > :12:33.and party members, if only 10% of them signed up, they will outweigh
:12:34. > :12:38.individual members in the constituencies. It was interesting,
:12:39. > :12:41.how relaxed Paul Kenny was. He was taking thousands of pounds from the
:12:42. > :12:44.Labour Party a few months ago because he was annoyed about these
:12:45. > :12:49.reforms, and now he is relaxed because they still have 50% of the
:12:50. > :12:52.vote at Labour Party conference and Labour Party Parliamentary
:12:53. > :12:56.candidates are still selected in the same way. But there is a simple
:12:57. > :13:00.point here. Yes, you can pick apart what Ed Miliband said and said the
:13:01. > :13:05.unions have too much influence, but the only way he could have gone all
:13:06. > :13:09.the way was to break the link with the trade unions, and he was not
:13:10. > :13:13.going to do that. It was not the Labour Party that founded the
:13:14. > :13:20.unions, it was the unions that founded the Labour Party. Even Tony
:13:21. > :13:24.Blair did not break the link. In that context, Ed Miliband has gone
:13:25. > :13:28.incredibly far. For the last 50 years, this opting into the union,
:13:29. > :13:32.you have to turn to page 50 of your union terms and conditions to say,
:13:33. > :13:36.do you want to opt out of the political levy 's that is going to
:13:37. > :13:43.go, which will mean that when the next Labour leader is elected from
:13:44. > :13:46.the union votes, they will get their ballot from the Labour Party and you
:13:47. > :13:51.will append the fast where ballots went out from Unison macro and GMB
:13:52. > :13:57.with a picture of Ed Miliband on the front of the ballot paper saying,
:13:58. > :14:01.vote for aid. They were Stasi and Saddam Hussein ways of trade union
:14:02. > :14:06.members electing the Labour leader, which will go. I am sorry his
:14:07. > :14:10.Lordship is not still here to answer that question.
:14:11. > :14:14.HMS Coalition is not a happy ship. The lovey-dovey days in the rose
:14:15. > :14:17.garden are long gone. It is not a loveless marriage, perhaps even an
:14:18. > :14:20.open one. The latest split is over the decision by Education Secretary
:14:21. > :14:23.Michael Gove to replace Labour peer Sally Morgan as head of the schools
:14:24. > :14:27.inspectorate, Ofsted. Mr Gove's deputy, Lib Dem David Laws, is said
:14:28. > :14:31.to be spitting blood about her removal, although only through
:14:32. > :14:36.surrogates. He has not said a word on the record. Here was the
:14:37. > :14:47.Education Secretary a little earlier. If there is another
:14:48. > :14:52.opportunity for Sally to serve in a different role at a different time,
:14:53. > :14:56.then I would be delighted to support her in the role which she thinks it
:14:57. > :14:59.is appropriate to do. There is nothing wrong with Sally but there
:15:00. > :15:04.is a principle across government that there should be no automatic
:15:05. > :15:09.reappointment, and that after three or four years, it is appropriate to
:15:10. > :15:14.bring in a fresh pair of eyes. That is good corporate practice in order
:15:15. > :15:22.to ensure that you refresh boards, bring a new perspective, and have
:15:23. > :15:25.tough questions asked. We're joined now by the newly elected deputy
:15:26. > :15:29.leader of the Liberal Democrats Malcolm Bruce. He's in Aberdeen
:15:30. > :15:36.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. David Laws is said to be furious
:15:37. > :15:40.with Michael Gove, is he? I think he is because Sally Morgan has been
:15:41. > :15:45.doing a good job and that has been generally agreed across the whole
:15:46. > :15:48.spectrum. I think Ofsted is an impartial body that inspects all
:15:49. > :15:54.schools and it shouldn't be subject to some kind of political direction.
:15:55. > :15:58.That is the concern, that she is being removed when she was doing a
:15:59. > :16:02.good job and most people thought she should be reappointed. It is
:16:03. > :16:15.strongly rumoured her successor will be a high-ranking Tory backer. Why
:16:16. > :16:21.hasn't David Laws said this himself, have you spoken to him? I have, and
:16:22. > :16:26.I know he is not very pleased about it but he will want to speak to
:16:27. > :16:31.Michael Gove himself when he gets to see him on Monday. The question you
:16:32. > :16:36.have to take on board is that David Laws is the schools minister,
:16:37. > :16:40.effectively the one who has engagement with Ofsted, and he is
:16:41. > :16:45.seeing it being undermined by the Secretary of State. There is a
:16:46. > :16:49.question that if Michael Gove is so pleased with Sally Morgan why is he
:16:50. > :16:54.replacing her, and who will he be replacing her with, and on what
:16:55. > :16:58.basis? Maybe parliament should have a confirmation hearing so that we
:16:59. > :17:07.can be assured that whoever is put in charge is there because they are
:17:08. > :17:12.good at it. Why has he licensed his surrogates to save this rather than
:17:13. > :17:17.saying it himself? He didn't, he knew I was on the programme this
:17:18. > :17:25.morning so I am giving you the answers as best I can. David is
:17:26. > :17:31.perfectly capable of speaking for himself. He hasn't so far. You asked
:17:32. > :17:36.me to come on this programme and David was anxious for me to know he
:17:37. > :17:41.wasn't happy about it, and I can certainly tell you that. I can also
:17:42. > :17:44.give you my own opinion which is that Ofsted is not the Department
:17:45. > :17:52.for Education, it is an independent body. The question you have to ask
:17:53. > :17:58.is will Michael Gove but someone in charge of Ofsted who will have a
:17:59. > :18:03.political agenda? If so, that is not what Ofsted should be used for.
:18:04. > :18:15.Let's move on to your own position. You are 69, white male,
:18:16. > :18:20.middle-class, what is your answer to the party with diversity problems? I
:18:21. > :18:24.don't think that is what they voted on. They felt I had a wealth of
:18:25. > :18:28.experience that would be vulnerable to the party from the period now
:18:29. > :18:31.until the election, not least because the central issues that will
:18:32. > :18:38.concern voters are the economy, and I have a track record of promoting
:18:39. > :18:44.the party's economic policy over many years. But you are not even
:18:45. > :18:48.standing at the next election. No, but we need to get to the next
:18:49. > :19:00.election and my colleagues have confidence that I can do a useful
:19:01. > :19:03.job for the party in that situation. We have developed and delivered
:19:04. > :19:05.policies that I have helped to shape and I want to persuade people to
:19:06. > :19:08.understand the Liberal Democrats have made a fundamental difference
:19:09. > :19:13.to the economic recovery. But you know what has been happening with
:19:14. > :19:17.the Liberal Democrats and their problems with women. Wasn't this a
:19:18. > :19:24.chance to select a woman in a major part? You only have seven female MPs
:19:25. > :19:32.out of 57, not a single Lib Dem woman in the Parliament. Again, why
:19:33. > :19:37.you rather than making a break and bringing someone in onto major
:19:38. > :19:44.positions? My colleagues have concluded that the role I am best
:19:45. > :19:50.qualified to do it, that is why they voted for me. We do only have seven
:19:51. > :20:01.women and that is an issue we need to address. Two of those women are
:20:02. > :20:07.ministers, one is a government whip. We seem to have lost our line to
:20:08. > :20:12.Aberdeen, just as Malcolm Bruce was in full flight defending his
:20:13. > :20:18.position. I'm not sure if we can get the line back, just bear with me for
:20:19. > :20:23.a few seconds to see if we can get it. It looks as if we have lost
:20:24. > :20:27.Malcolm Bruce, I do apologise to Malcolm Bruce and the viewers that
:20:28. > :20:35.we were not able to continue that interview.
:20:36. > :20:38.Fierce winds, torrential rain and a tidal surge have brought more misery
:20:39. > :20:41.to thousands. Official records show that southern England has seen the
:20:42. > :20:44.wettest January since records began in 1767. I remember it well. The
:20:45. > :20:49.Somerset Levels have been hit by weeks of flooding, with little
:20:50. > :20:52.respite from relentless rain. And, the residents of one village on the
:20:53. > :20:59.Levels, Muchelney, has been cut off for almost a month. We sent our Adam
:21:00. > :21:18.out with his wellies and a properly filled out risk assessment form The
:21:19. > :21:21.very wet road to Muchelney. This village of about 100 residents has
:21:22. > :21:29.been cut off for about four weeks, and like the weather vane, it feels
:21:30. > :21:35.a little bit spooky. It came up to here and your front door was there.
:21:36. > :21:39.Anita is just relieved the water stopped here, practically on her
:21:40. > :21:46.doorstep. Now it is the practicalities that are the problem.
:21:47. > :21:53.Driving around for food is quite a hassle. You are foraging. It's not
:21:54. > :21:57.as bad as that but we do have a few bits in the vegetable garden still,
:21:58. > :22:02.and we had some nice apples until the rats ate them but we are not
:22:03. > :22:11.doing too badly on that score. It sounds like the medieval! That's
:22:12. > :22:19.what it feels like. Talking of retro, who knew Somerset still had a
:22:20. > :22:25.Coleman, this is Brian's first delivery since Christmas. Everything
:22:26. > :22:29.has gone old-fashioned. We are now talking to neighbours we might never
:22:30. > :22:35.have seen before or spoken to so we are getting to know more people in
:22:36. > :22:39.the village. She's right, there has been an outbreak of Dunkirk spirit,
:22:40. > :22:46.quite literally. The council and the Fire Brigade have put on this boat
:22:47. > :22:55.service to get people to work and school. The church has become an
:22:56. > :23:01.unofficial flood HQ. This is where people pick up their mail, and this
:23:02. > :23:06.is where the people who run the boat stopped for their tea breaks. It all
:23:07. > :23:12.seems quite jolly, if a bit boring, but it is no fun for the homes and
:23:13. > :23:18.businesses that have been inundated, or for the farmers whose land is
:23:19. > :23:21.underwater, an area the size of Bristol, or for the villages which
:23:22. > :23:26.are less isolated but where the flooding is worse. People like the
:23:27. > :23:32.parish chairman are starting to get angry with how the Government has
:23:33. > :23:38.responded. It was all a bit late. We knew what was going to happen with
:23:39. > :23:42.the amount of rain on the fields and the Government was so slow to
:23:43. > :23:46.react. The county council got the boat going quickly but it was
:23:47. > :23:52.another four weeks nearly before the button was pressed for the major
:23:53. > :23:57.incident. Right on cue, the cavalry arrived in the shape of emergency
:23:58. > :24:01.crews from other parts of the UK. The rumour is that they will bring
:24:02. > :24:06.in a hovercraft but the bad news is that the weather is becoming more
:24:07. > :24:12.grim this weekend. There has been a surge in bookings at the campsite
:24:13. > :24:16.where people have seen the Somerset Levels on holiday and would like to
:24:17. > :24:25.come on holiday, if it ever stops raining. I'm delighted to say we
:24:26. > :24:29.have got the line back to Aberdeen, somebody has put a shilling in the
:24:30. > :24:34.meter. We can go back to Malcolm Bruce. We were talking about the Lib
:24:35. > :24:40.Dem women and your election, I suppose the point some people are
:24:41. > :24:48.making is that your party has as many knights in Parliament as it has
:24:49. > :24:55.women and you are one of them. The good news is that for the five MPs
:24:56. > :25:00.who are standing down, who have had candidates elected in their
:25:01. > :25:05.constituencies so far, all five candidates that have been selected
:25:06. > :25:08.are women. We need to fight hard to get behind those women and get them
:25:09. > :25:13.elected so that we have a much better balanced parliament in the
:25:14. > :25:16.future, but given that we have few women, you really have to pick
:25:17. > :25:34.people appropriate for the job and we have appointed the women as I
:25:35. > :25:41.have said but we need our image to be balanced. How many women
:25:42. > :25:48.candidates will there be come the next election? At the moment, 1 ,
:25:49. > :25:51.five more than we have now, and we haven't finished selection. Where
:25:52. > :25:57.there are men sitting and standing again, that is not likely to change,
:25:58. > :26:01.but where they are standing down we are overwhelmingly choosing women,
:26:02. > :26:08.and in my view good and very able women. What I would want to say to
:26:09. > :26:16.people is that if you want to see the Lib Dems have more women, go to
:26:17. > :26:23.those seats and help us hold them. We are told that only 20% of the 57
:26:24. > :26:28.seats have female candidates and in the unlikely event that you were
:26:29. > :26:34.able to hold onto them all, it still wouldn't be a sea change to have
:26:35. > :26:41.20%. The point is you have to build them up. We are supporting female
:26:42. > :26:46.candidates. These are really good candidates who will make first-class
:26:47. > :26:51.MPs and I certainly believe you will gradually see the Liberal Democrats
:26:52. > :26:55.taking them on. We don't have 3 0 seats that we currently hold like
:26:56. > :27:02.other parties, but what I can tell you is that increasing --
:27:03. > :27:08.increasingly we will have female candidates. One newspaper has said
:27:09. > :27:13.that you will deal with the Chris Rennard fallout quickly and
:27:14. > :27:18.privately, what does that mean? It means I will not be telling you
:27:19. > :27:22.because these things are not helped by comments on the airwaves. I hope
:27:23. > :27:26.it will be possible to have a resolution without people going to
:27:27. > :27:30.court but I don't think it helps anybody for me to comment on any
:27:31. > :27:36.aspect of how this will be done and I'm not prepared to do so. If you
:27:37. > :27:44.are not in full possession of the facts, why did you say you will deal
:27:45. > :27:48.with this privately? I have come into this halfway through, I don't
:27:49. > :27:56.have full possession of the facts, I doubt you do, and we have a process
:27:57. > :28:02.that needs to be followed through. Any comments in public do not help.
:28:03. > :28:09.Isn't it hypocrisy of a high order to hear from a party that is
:28:10. > :28:14.constantly calling for transparency in other institutions but when it
:28:15. > :28:18.comes to your own, you say, I am not going to talk about it. There are
:28:19. > :28:23.all sorts of disputes that happen in the world and often people don't
:28:24. > :28:27.talk about them because talking about them aggravates the
:28:28. > :28:31.situation. I believe you have to deal with them privately and I don't
:28:32. > :28:35.think trial by media in this context is helpful and I don't believe that
:28:36. > :28:41.those who choose to make those comments are making it easier to
:28:42. > :28:44.solve them. There are problems in other walks of life and the Liberal
:28:45. > :28:49.Democrats are not the only ones with these problems. We are trying to
:28:50. > :28:54.change that culture and I think we will do it effectively in our own
:28:55. > :29:05.way. We have a pastoral care officer now and I think that is the right
:29:06. > :29:09.way to do it. Thank you for that. Let's now go back to the story of
:29:10. > :29:17.the flooding in Somerset. We are joined by the leader of the Green
:29:18. > :29:22.party, Natalie Bennett in Millbank. Natalie Bennett, don't the Green
:29:23. > :29:30.party bears some responsibility for these floods? You have sided with
:29:31. > :29:35.the Environment Agency in the decision not to dredge rivers and
:29:36. > :29:39.that is one of the reason why these places have been flooded. Firstly I
:29:40. > :29:46.want to give my sympathy to everyone dealing with these floods. The
:29:47. > :29:55.homeowners, the farmers seeing sodden fields for weeks and weeks.
:29:56. > :29:58.We get that, we all have huge sympathy, particularly because so
:29:59. > :30:03.little seems to be done to help them. What is the answer to my
:30:04. > :30:09.question? I think there is strong evidence that dredging is not the
:30:10. > :30:15.answer. If you think about the flow of the river, where the pinch points
:30:16. > :30:20.are is things like bridges, weirs and towns. If you dredge the river
:30:21. > :30:24.in between those barriers, you just make the water faster to those
:30:25. > :30:29.points. The experts are saying that dredging is not the answer, it may
:30:30. > :30:33.be in particular cases, but you have to look at each river system on its
:30:34. > :30:37.own merits and very often the best way of dealing with this is working
:30:38. > :30:40.out ways to slow the watered down and make sure that people don't
:30:41. > :30:49.suffer unduly while you are doing that. The west of England
:30:50. > :30:52.agricultural Society, which I would venture knows more about the
:30:53. > :30:57.Somerset Levels than either of us, has said that without dredging, this
:30:58. > :31:00.was a disaster waiting to happen. The local drainage boards have been
:31:01. > :31:06.calling for years for dredging to be resumed. The National Farmers' Union
:31:07. > :31:10.has called for it, and the chairman of the West Sussex flood defences
:31:11. > :31:12.has called for more drainage, and he is a drainage engineer by
:31:13. > :31:17.profession. So I don't know where your experts are, but the experts on
:31:18. > :31:24.the ground am not the urban ones in London, seem to think this has not
:31:25. > :31:29.been caused, but made worse by the failure of the Environment Agency to
:31:30. > :31:32.continue to dredge. If you look at the example of the planning and
:31:33. > :31:37.climate change coalition, which is led by the town and country planning
:31:38. > :31:40.Association, who you would not describe as a group of radical
:31:41. > :31:45.greens, these people have said we have to look at how we deal with
:31:46. > :31:48.flooding in the future. But not in Somerset. These are the people
:31:49. > :31:52.currently being flooded, not somebody sitting in a quango office
:31:53. > :31:57.in London. They have asked for this to happen and it hasn't, and they
:31:58. > :32:02.are now flooded in definitely. We have to look at what is happening on
:32:03. > :32:06.a case-by-case basis. If you look at Germany, there are many cases there
:32:07. > :32:10.were, to deal with flooding, many farmers are paid to hold water on
:32:11. > :32:14.their land. Maybe we need to introduce those systems, because we
:32:15. > :32:20.have to protect farmland, but we also have to protect urban areas for
:32:21. > :32:28.safety. We saw a horrible flood in Wales were lines were endangered --
:32:29. > :32:33.where lives were endangered. That is the priority, to protect lives,
:32:34. > :32:37.property and farmland. Lives are endangered at the moment,
:32:38. > :32:43.particularly as this stagnant water turns toxic. And yet we are in a
:32:44. > :32:45.situation, again encouraged by the Greens and the lobbying Environment
:32:46. > :32:48.Agency, it says it does not want to dredge because dredging is
:32:49. > :32:54.expensive, yet it spends millions on a bird sanctuary. That is getting
:32:55. > :32:59.everything totally wrong. The government is getting everything one
:33:00. > :33:06.by cutting on flood defences. It has not cut on a bird sanctuaries. I
:33:07. > :33:14.don't know the details of that. But looking at the broader issue, we
:33:15. > :33:17.have to prepare for climate change. The government has slashed funding
:33:18. > :33:22.to the Environment Agency and has cut back on the number of staff
:33:23. > :33:24.available to deal with it and has removed the requirement on local
:33:25. > :33:31.councils to plan for climate change. These are all gambling the future of
:33:32. > :33:34.our lives and property and the future of our environment. Hasn t
:33:35. > :33:40.the high watermark of greenery now gone well past? You don't come out
:33:41. > :33:43.of the Somerset Levels with any great reputation. The UK government
:33:44. > :33:48.is now going to start fracking as quickly as it can. Brussels is
:33:49. > :33:54.loosening the CO2 obligations for 2030. The President of America is
:33:55. > :33:59.about to give the go-ahead to the keystone pipeline, a totemic issue
:34:00. > :34:03.for American greens, and your party is in a state of civil war in
:34:04. > :34:08.Brighton. It is over, isn't it? Absolutely not. We are seeing large
:34:09. > :34:16.amounts of extreme weather around the world. Any one event is whether,
:34:17. > :34:19.but we are seeing a lot of it and people are recognising that climate
:34:20. > :34:23.change is happening. If we are going to quote international experts, I
:34:24. > :34:27.can quote to you Ban Ki-Moon, the UN Secretary-General, not known as a
:34:28. > :34:32.radical green, and he said after the IPCC report came out that the heat
:34:33. > :34:34.is on and we must act. If you go to Christine Lagarde, head of the
:34:35. > :34:38.International Monetary Fund, again not a radical green, she was asked
:34:39. > :34:43.what kept her awake at night, and she said, we are not doing enough
:34:44. > :34:46.about climate change. So actually, people around the world are looking
:34:47. > :34:50.at what is happening around them are both people on the ground and people
:34:51. > :34:55.in high positions are saying we have to act on climate change. And in the
:34:56. > :35:01.case of Britain, that should absolutely not mean fracking. Sorry
:35:02. > :35:05.to interrupt, but I have evidence that you are planning a little
:35:06. > :35:09.career change. Don't go away. This is what happens when you let Nigel
:35:10. > :35:13.Farage present the weather. One thing leads to another and low and
:35:14. > :35:18.behold, the Sunday Politics now has a new traffic and travel reporter.
:35:19. > :35:24.Let's go back to Green Party leader, Natalie Bennett. Thanks, Andrew It
:35:25. > :35:29.is easy out that, so let's start with our airports. I am pleased to
:35:30. > :35:35.say that Heathrow's third runway, Boris Island and all short-haul
:35:36. > :35:40.flights are, just like our arguments, well grounded. We suggest
:35:41. > :35:47.making or alternative arrangements, like a re-nationalised rail
:35:48. > :35:51.network, although it would be a glaring omission if we did not admit
:35:52. > :35:54.that that plan is currently being delayed by Labour Party foot
:35:55. > :36:00.dragging. Speaking of trains, we are hearing that high-speed two may well
:36:01. > :36:05.be derailing, or at least getting bogged down in political fog. One
:36:06. > :36:12.viewer, Ed Balls, has texted in to say he is completely lost. Thanks
:36:13. > :36:16.for the update, Ed. You are not alone among political commuters
:36:17. > :36:21.Meanwhile, dumped UKIP manifestoes are causing major tailbacks across
:36:22. > :36:27.the South, apparently stretching all the way to Brussels. This does make
:36:28. > :36:37.driving road tricky, but UKIP's MEPs can, of course, just hop on their
:36:38. > :36:41.gravy train. The tree had a roundabout is blocked after reports
:36:42. > :36:46.of a political earthquake. It seems that a green unwound his beard to
:36:47. > :36:49.block a dodgy gas extractor. A motorist who turned out to be the
:36:50. > :36:55.environment minister object into the delay and was told to frack off as
:36:56. > :37:02.furious badgers demanded that he stopped moving the goalposts.
:37:03. > :37:07.Unregulated traffic in the city of London continues unchecked.
:37:08. > :37:11.Pedestrians should try to block bankers with sacks of loot rushing
:37:12. > :37:18.for the payments. But do beware the Lib Dem Exodus that is clogging up
:37:19. > :37:24.the motorways. Although they are in a jam, or is it a fudge, we are
:37:25. > :37:28.happy to make way for them, as, like all refugees, we say they are
:37:29. > :37:35.welcome here in muesli green. That is the travel. Back to you, Andrew.
:37:36. > :37:41.Natalie, I think you make my point. You are now preparing a new career
:37:42. > :37:44.in traffic and travel. Well, I do believe in lifelong education and
:37:45. > :37:49.that was an example of it. We know you have had a tough time today to
:37:50. > :37:56.get to our studio. Thank you for the effort.
:37:57. > :37:58.You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20
:37:59. > :37:59.minutes, we will have Hello and welcome to the part of the
:38:00. > :38:15.changing the face Hello and welcome to the part of the
:38:16. > :38:21.programme just for us here in the East. I'm Etholle George.
:38:22. > :38:23.Coming up: Setting their budgets. The huge savings our local
:38:24. > :38:30.authorities need to make, which could change how our councils work
:38:31. > :38:35.completely. It is a massive contribution. It is 40% of our
:38:36. > :38:39.budget. And we put Labour in the spotlight
:38:40. > :38:45.as problems surface over party democracy in Luton. In parts of the
:38:46. > :38:49.local party local democracy has stopped working.
:38:50. > :38:52.Let's begin by meeting our guests for this week, Andrea Leadsom, the
:38:53. > :38:55.Conservative MP for South Northamptonshire and Bob Blizzard,
:38:56. > :38:57.the former Labour MP and now the party's parliamentary candidate, for
:38:58. > :39:04.Waveney. I wanted to start with the flooding.
:39:05. > :39:08.After another wet week there's no sign of flood warnings receding any
:39:09. > :39:11.time soon. This week council leaders went to
:39:12. > :39:15.London to lobby the Floods Minister for more money to help cover the
:39:16. > :39:18.cost of the clear up operation. Several councils in Norfolk and
:39:19. > :39:25.Suffolk say they are seriously out of pocket. This is money that we
:39:26. > :39:30.have not budgeted for. We have financial restraints. We would
:39:31. > :39:37.welcome any funding the Government is able to give us. Local Government
:39:38. > :39:44.minister said an extra ?6.7 million is available at councils will have
:39:45. > :39:49.to bid for it. Is there enough money to cover the
:39:50. > :39:53.cost of the damage? David Cameron is always going on about his economic
:39:54. > :39:57.plan. Part of that plan has been to cut the budget for flood defence in
:39:58. > :40:05.our region every single year he has been in office. Andrea Leadsom, in
:40:06. > :40:11.Northamptonshire the flood defences have held up so far, but it is a
:40:12. > :40:18.densely populated area. You benefit more from funding. We have had
:40:19. > :40:25.enormous problems over recent years. The huge issue is the amount of
:40:26. > :40:32.planning requests for holding on the flood plains. Northamptonshire has
:40:33. > :40:38.awful problems with flooding. There was a death in Northampton in the
:40:39. > :40:43.late 1980s. We have got a number of houses that regularly flood that are
:40:44. > :40:50.quite recently built. Planning and making sure that you do not build on
:40:51. > :40:53.flood plains is vital. Now, at this time of year our councils have to
:40:54. > :40:56.set their budgets. Since 2010 council funding has been plunging.
:40:57. > :41:39.They've lost 40 per cent of their Government grants.
:41:40. > :41:43.?1.2 billion worth of savings needs to be made over the next five
:41:44. > :41:47.years. So what will that mean for the
:41:48. > :41:49.services they provide ` for our schools, our libraries, our roads?
:41:50. > :41:52.Local Government is transforming, through outsourcing, sharing
:41:53. > :41:55.backroom staff and money making schemes. Cambridgeshire is going
:41:56. > :41:58.into property development, Peterborough is pinning hopes on
:41:59. > :42:00.solar farms and as Deborah McGurran found out,.Northamptonshire is going
:42:01. > :42:13.into partnership with utility companies. It is really
:42:14. > :42:22.challenging. We want to play our part in balancing the national
:42:23. > :42:30.budget. We have got to save this year another ?34 million. That is
:42:31. > :42:36.part of ?147 million we had to see over the next four years. A dozen
:42:37. > :42:45.top of the ?177 million that we have already saved. # wrote that is on
:42:46. > :42:53.top of the 177 million pounds. We are looking with this gas at the
:42:54. > :43:02.smart meter broke. `` smart meter approach. If somebody always gets up
:43:03. > :43:06.at the same time such as the kettle on and it goes on day after day and
:43:07. > :43:16.then suddenly does not go on at the same time we can now that. We can
:43:17. > :43:21.send people to make sure it is OK. How do you see the balance between
:43:22. > :43:32.Vermont funding and local funding in the future? I do not think we will
:43:33. > :43:38.see a shift. It would not be likely that central Government having got
:43:39. > :43:45.its grip on strategic decisions would want to relax that grip. The
:43:46. > :43:54.shift is already showing between central funding and local funding.
:43:55. > :43:57.Local funding through the local council tax for the last three years
:43:58. > :44:07.we have had as usual base. This year there will be a slight increase. It
:44:08. > :44:14.will not be in our base budget for future years. We need that security
:44:15. > :44:21.to provide the additional services. You are not in agreement with Mr
:44:22. > :44:35.pickles? We are. We do not know what he is going to do. He is threatening
:44:36. > :44:42.us with the lowering the 2% ceiling. I think he has done a good job. You
:44:43. > :44:57.are happy to put up with him for the time being. He is very welcome to
:44:58. > :45:01.come to Northamptonshire. Well, we met up with Mr Pickles in
:45:02. > :45:07.Great Yarmouth and asked him whether councils can cope with the planned
:45:08. > :45:12.savings in the East. People have said that from the beginning and
:45:13. > :45:21.they have been proved wrong time and again. He had made the savings.
:45:22. > :45:32.Balances have increased by slightly over ?2 billion. My view is that
:45:33. > :45:45.what councils have got to do now is sheer services, officers. They
:45:46. > :45:49.should cut down on fraud. There is still plenty of opportunities for
:45:50. > :46:01.them to improve the service without going back to the council tax there.
:46:02. > :46:06.But they are free to do so. Hilary Benn is joining us from
:46:07. > :46:09.Leeds. You said that front line services
:46:10. > :46:14.would be hit by these cuts in funding but they haven't. Councils
:46:15. > :46:18.have protected them. You were wrong. Councils have worked hard to protect
:46:19. > :46:27.front line services. I pay tribute to what they have done very
:46:28. > :46:29.different circumstances. The way that Government is cutting funding
:46:30. > :46:37.to local authorities is profoundly unfair. The 25 most deprived local
:46:38. > :46:41.authorities in England are facing a reduction in their spending power
:46:42. > :46:47.ten times greater than the 25 lease deprived. If your databases like
:46:48. > :46:51.great Yarmouth and Peterborough they are facing reductions in funding
:46:52. > :46:56.that are greater than other councils. There are some in the
:46:57. > :47:00.country that are having in pieces. David Cameron's own council is
:47:01. > :47:08.getting a rise in funding. That cannot be fair. Councils have been
:47:09. > :47:13.losing staff where they can by voluntary means. Trying to reduce
:47:14. > :47:18.back office costs. At the pressure is rising. There is a growing
:47:19. > :47:24.elderly population. These cats will continue. It will be harder in the
:47:25. > :47:28.year to come to protect front line services.
:47:29. > :47:36.Would Labour continue to tighten the finances or loosen them and give
:47:37. > :47:40.more money back to councils? We will stick with the spending plans that
:47:41. > :47:45.we inherit if we win the election in 2015. But the one pledge I made is
:47:46. > :47:52.that I will look at the formula because the money is being allocated
:47:53. > :47:59.in an unfair way at the moment. We need a fairer distribution of
:48:00. > :48:10.resources. We have got to address this funding crisis that local
:48:11. > :48:28.authorities base. Would you loosen the grip? We would. We would bring
:48:29. > :48:36.together the people dealing with an issue. That produces results. The
:48:37. > :48:42.work programme is not successful in finding employment. We need a
:48:43. > :48:50.fundamental change both because of the funding crisis and because I
:48:51. > :48:53.want local communities and local authorities to do more things for
:48:54. > :49:11.themselves in the months and years ahead. What do you say to the comics
:49:12. > :49:22.that it is unfair? `` to the statement that it is unfair. What
:49:23. > :49:24.councils have done is get creative. They get different levels of the
:49:25. > :49:33.funding so they have to get creative in different ways. In the past there
:49:34. > :49:40.has been enormous amounts of money sunk into those councils that have
:49:41. > :49:43.been Labour run councils. If there have been changes in the funding it
:49:44. > :49:49.is to make it fairer, not to make it unfair. The fact that there may have
:49:50. > :49:53.been greater cats suffered in certain areas has been to make it
:49:54. > :50:03.fairer for everybody. I would dispute the basis of his point.
:50:04. > :50:13.Earlier we heard it said that this was an opportunity for titles. Some
:50:14. > :50:17.councils are still wasting money. One council is spending 40 million
:50:18. > :50:22.on new offices and 5 million on a footbridge that the public do not
:50:23. > :50:25.want. But my main concern is the impact on social services
:50:26. > :50:32.departments, in particular care of the elderly. Older people are having
:50:33. > :50:34.to go more and more to Accident and Emergency at the General Hospital
:50:35. > :50:37.because they are not getting the care in the community. When they are
:50:38. > :50:42.in the hospital but are having to stay longer in the expensive
:50:43. > :50:46.hospital bed because there is nobody to look after them in the community.
:50:47. > :50:56.That is having an impact on the entire NHS. That is part of David
:50:57. > :51:06.Cameron's economic plan failure. What about outsourcing? We have
:51:07. > :51:11.heard of contracts going wrong. In South Northants district council
:51:12. > :51:17.they are shaving leadership with another council. `` shaving
:51:18. > :51:24.leadership. They are reaching out to other councils to share overheads.
:51:25. > :51:31.When you are pushed to do more with less it is amazing how successful
:51:32. > :51:36.you can be. The Mayor of Liverpool was saying that in Liverpool their
:51:37. > :51:41.municipal golf courses were costing them half ?1 million per year in
:51:42. > :51:46.subsidy. Now that they are in the private sector they are making a
:51:47. > :51:50.profit of ?200,000 per year. Is this the end of local Government as we
:51:51. > :51:57.know it? Local Government seems to be doing less and less. I can
:51:58. > :52:01.understand that you always try and get best value and in some cases
:52:02. > :52:07.save money. That there is a problem to do with responsibility. Sometimes
:52:08. > :52:11.you complain at the council says it is the thing to do with them, it is
:52:12. > :52:17.the people who are contracted. It is harder to get something fixed. How
:52:18. > :52:21.can councils really shape their communities and take them forward if
:52:22. > :52:28.all they are is minimalist providers of services? That is a classic
:52:29. > :52:44.statist approach. Why did councils have two read their communities?
:52:45. > :52:47.Communities lead their communities. We've spent the last few weeks
:52:48. > :52:50.talking about problems within some of the Conservative associations in
:52:51. > :52:53.our region. Now we've learnt that there are serious concerns about the
:52:54. > :52:57.Labour party in Luton South. It follows a number of complaints that
:52:58. > :53:00.a small group of people are signing up dozens of new members with a view
:53:01. > :53:03.to influencing the outcome of internal elections. It's called
:53:04. > :53:06.membership packing. There have been claims of bullying, a councillor has
:53:07. > :53:09.resigned and the local MP has told us that in parts of his constituency
:53:10. > :53:12.democracy no longer exists. Here's Andrew Sinclair.
:53:13. > :53:16.Ed Miliband in Luton just a couple of months ago. This is the town that
:53:17. > :53:19.has kept the Labour flame alive in the Eastern region. An example of
:53:20. > :53:22.good party organisation to inspire others. But behind the smiles
:53:23. > :53:30.there's resentment and a lot of infighting. In parts of my local
:53:31. > :53:33.party local democracy has stopped working.
:53:34. > :53:37.Here in Luton south 340 new people have joined the party since the last
:53:38. > :53:44.election but are they all legitimate members? I find it irregular that an
:53:45. > :54:04.entire household would become Labour supporters.
:54:05. > :54:07.Yaqub Hanif, a Luton councillor, is one of several people who's told us
:54:08. > :54:16.that membership packing is widespread. Do they even know that
:54:17. > :54:24.they be long to the Labour Party? In some parts of my constituency the
:54:25. > :54:29.person who gets selected is not the best person, it is whoever has
:54:30. > :54:32.signed in members. We've seen internal party documents
:54:33. > :54:36.that show that in four of the seven wards in Luton south membership has
:54:37. > :54:39.increased by an average of 119 per cent over the last three years. But
:54:40. > :54:44.in Farley and Caddington ward it's up by 179 per cent, in Biscott ward
:54:45. > :54:47.by 314 per cent while in Dallow it's gone up by 400 per cent.
:54:48. > :54:51.We've also seen a letter from the party chairman which notes that here
:54:52. > :55:03.in Biscott wards 70 per cent of new members were recruited by the same
:55:04. > :55:13.two people. Nobody has done anything to deal with the issue. The issue
:55:14. > :55:20.has been flagged up many times. Recently it has become more apparent
:55:21. > :55:29.how this is working against long term decent young men and women who
:55:30. > :55:37.want to be candidate and fight on behalf of the Labour Party.
:55:38. > :55:39.Last week a long standing councillor Robin Harris resigned accusing his
:55:40. > :55:43.colleagues of using underhand tactics and bullying. He didn't want
:55:44. > :55:46.to be interviewed but he told us he believed the process for choosing
:55:47. > :55:49.candidates was being manipulated. None of the people who're allegedly
:55:50. > :55:52.involved in membership packing returned our calls ` but they've
:55:53. > :55:56.told friends that many of those complaining have failed to be
:55:57. > :55:59.reselected and are just bad losers. But there is deep frustration among
:56:00. > :56:07.many at the party's inability to deal with the problem. Despite the
:56:08. > :56:11.efforts of a good constituency team and good people trying to challenge
:56:12. > :56:14.this practice we have found ourselves in a position where the
:56:15. > :56:27.rules do not allow us to deal with it as effectively as we might want
:56:28. > :56:36.to. There is no formal investigation underway. But I understand that
:56:37. > :56:40.officials in the regional party are closely watching Luton South. They
:56:41. > :56:43.have adjusted the rules about who can vote in elections and I am told
:56:44. > :56:49.they will take further action if they think it is necessary. If they
:56:50. > :56:56.were real and remembers talking to the public, knocking on people 's
:56:57. > :57:02.doors, engaging in political debate and driving forward the values of
:57:03. > :57:08.the Labour Party, if that was happening, which does not, they
:57:09. > :57:17.would not be a problem. The problem exists because people are not
:57:18. > :57:20.joining for the right reasons. This isn't a scandal on the scale of
:57:21. > :57:23.Falkirk. It's an internal party matter that at the moment doesn't
:57:24. > :57:27.affect people outside the Labour party. But it's an issue which many
:57:28. > :57:29.in the party want to see sorted out very soon.
:57:30. > :57:36.Do the rules needs to be tightened up? We have got robust rules. I do
:57:37. > :57:42.not see what more you can do. I do not know the details. This is the
:57:43. > :57:51.first to have heard of anything like this? Yes. What I want to say is
:57:52. > :57:56.that in all parties, when you have a hotly contested selection, rival
:57:57. > :58:01.candidates will try and get their supporters along to a meeting to
:58:02. > :58:04.vote for them. It has happened for years. The people who lose,
:58:05. > :58:08.obviously they do not like losing, and they often complain about things
:58:09. > :58:18.being and democratic. That is part of the hurly`burly of all attacks.
:58:19. > :58:22.Is it the hurly`burly of politics? I am inclined to agree with Bob
:58:23. > :58:27.Blizzard. People if they are trying to win an election will win over
:58:28. > :58:35.people to their side. There is a line between bat and actually trying
:58:36. > :58:40.to fix the votes which transgressors the law as well as internal party
:58:41. > :58:47.rules. We need to be constantly the joint. Are the allegations
:58:48. > :58:54.damaging? It is not a good story. Able do not like parties that are
:58:55. > :58:58.arguing amongst themselves. I would say keep your eye on the big
:58:59. > :59:04.picture. It is important to get the best candidate. They get down to
:59:05. > :59:08.factionalism that is not good. This week we've heard that it's not
:59:09. > :59:11.simply us with empty pockets these days but even the Queen is feeling
:59:12. > :59:18.the pinch. Here's our weekly round up, all in 60 seconds. Peterborough
:59:19. > :59:21.was named this week as the UK's fastest growing city with another
:59:22. > :59:26.27,000 people over the last ten years needing homes.
:59:27. > :59:29.But it was the Queen's homes causing concern to the Public Accounts
:59:30. > :59:38.Committee, who think Her Majesty's palaces are in need of repair. The
:59:39. > :59:42.wiring in the Buckingham Palace has not been renewed since 1949.
:59:43. > :59:46.While it was the energy supply on the mind of Essex MP Brooks Newmark,
:59:47. > :59:49.who told the House of Commons that the planning controls on solar farms
:59:50. > :59:51.aren't strict enough. Andrea Leadsom won backing for her
:59:52. > :59:59.manifesto supporting the bond between baby and carer, which has
:00:00. > :00:03.profound lifelong consequences. Did you know that 36% of all serious
:00:04. > :00:08.case reviews involve a baby under the age of one?
:00:09. > :00:15.But Robert Halfon was jeered for talking up Harlow's artistic
:00:16. > :00:27.pedigree. Harlow is the cultural capital of east of England.
:00:28. > :00:33.I grew up in Hull. I am a great supporter of the arts. I would not
:00:34. > :00:44.agree that he alone was quite the capital. Did you get a promise to
:00:45. > :00:48.back the campaign? The Minister said Government policy is changing as a
:00:49. > :00:54.result of the work that I and my colleagues have been doing. We want
:00:55. > :00:57.to focus on giving people a better birth experience.
:00:58. > :01:05.That is all for now. You can keep in birth experience.
:01:06. > :01:11.Not a complete denial! Hopefully a Conservative mayor again.
:01:12. > :01:19.Not a good week for David Cameron on the tricky European front last week.
:01:20. > :01:24.President Hollande said he was not interested in major treaty reform
:01:25. > :01:28.for 2017. That is when Mr Cameron hopes to hold his in-out referendum.
:01:29. > :01:33.And the private member's bill to put that referendum on the statute bill
:01:34. > :01:36.was killed by Labour and Lib Dem peers in the Lords. James Wharton
:01:37. > :01:45.was the Tory MP behind the bill and he joins me now. What happens now?
:01:46. > :01:48.It is out of my hands what happens now, because Labour and the Liberal
:01:49. > :01:52.Democrats conspired in the Lords to kill off my bill. One of the options
:01:53. > :01:56.is for another private member to bring a bill forward when they have
:01:57. > :01:59.the next private member's bill at, and we can try again. The prime
:02:00. > :02:05.minister has indicated that he will support that. But whatever happens,
:02:06. > :02:12.it will be in the Conservative manifesto at the next election. Do
:02:13. > :02:14.you accept that cost this is Tory policy and not government policy
:02:15. > :02:20.that the government policy elite macro cannot bring forward a bill?
:02:21. > :02:24.That is the problem. The Liberal Democrats, despite having promised a
:02:25. > :02:26.referendum in their manifesto at the last election, now will not allow
:02:27. > :02:31.government time for a bill to enshrine that in law. That was why I
:02:32. > :02:35.brought it forward as a private member's bill. David Cameron and the
:02:36. > :02:39.Conservative Party through everything behind that. To many
:02:40. > :02:43.people's surprise, we got it through all the House of Commons stages
:02:44. > :02:46.Sadly, to their discredit, Labour and Liberal Democrat peers, doing
:02:47. > :02:52.the bidding of their masters in the Commons, is conspired to kill it. Do
:02:53. > :02:56.you accept that it is Conservative policy, but not government policy,
:02:57. > :03:00.that you could not use the Parliament act to get this through
:03:01. > :03:05.the Lords? That is not the case The Parliament act is clear that if a
:03:06. > :03:07.public bill passes through the House of Commons twice in one
:03:08. > :03:12.Parliamentary period, there is a certain amount of time that has to
:03:13. > :03:16.be between both bills being presented. There are some procedural
:03:17. > :03:21.steps to be overcome, but there is no legal reason why the Parliament
:03:22. > :03:25.act could not come into effect. I was talking about you not having a
:03:26. > :03:28.majority in this case. That remains to be seen. We saw previously that
:03:29. > :03:33.Labour and the Liberal Democrats sent enough people to frustrate its
:03:34. > :03:38.progress to make it as difficult as possible, but not huge numbers to
:03:39. > :03:43.vote against it. On a Friday, huge numbers of MPs do not attend
:03:44. > :03:49.normally. Getting that number might prove difficult. The Parliament act,
:03:50. > :03:53.which is a bit of an atomic bomb in constitutional terms, if that was
:03:54. > :03:59.used, they would turn up to vote against you. Is it not the case that
:04:00. > :04:04.after the countryside Alliance tried to involve the courts in the hunting
:04:05. > :04:10.ban that it was made clear that the Parliament act was not to be used
:04:11. > :04:13.for constitutional issues? I don't think we know how many would turn up
:04:14. > :04:17.and we don't know how they would vote. One of the things that has
:04:18. > :04:20.been revealed as I have gone through the process of getting this bill to
:04:21. > :04:25.get a referendum through the Commons is that there are big splits in the
:04:26. > :04:29.Labour Party. One of the reasons we did not see them turning up in large
:04:30. > :04:32.numbers to stop this bill from happening was that Ed Miliband knew
:04:33. > :04:36.that if he tried to lead his own MPs through the lobbies to block a
:04:37. > :04:41.bill, the only purpose of which is to let Britain decides to give
:04:42. > :04:45.people a say on membership of the union, a lot of his MPs may not have
:04:46. > :04:50.followed him. It is all fantasy politics anyway. The French
:04:51. > :04:53.president has made clear that he has no interest in treaty change this
:04:54. > :05:00.side of 2017. He would need a referendum as well . And he needs
:05:01. > :05:05.that like a hole and had. Merkel is not keen, as she is in coalition
:05:06. > :05:10.with the social Democrats. Without the French or the Germans, it will
:05:11. > :05:16.not happen, end of story. The policy is that we will try to negotiate on
:05:17. > :05:21.getting a better deal. I hear what you are saying, but I don't
:05:22. > :05:23.recognise it as reality. We have a strong bargaining position. But
:05:24. > :05:28.whatever the result of that negotiation, it will be put in an
:05:29. > :05:32.in-out vote to the Britain people. It is time people were allowed to
:05:33. > :05:36.decide. It has been over a generation since we last had a say.
:05:37. > :05:39.David Cameron has committed to delivering that referendum. The
:05:40. > :05:43.Conservative Party will have it in our next manifesto for the election.
:05:44. > :05:48.Whatever happens to my bill or any other of the bill that comes
:05:49. > :05:51.forward. If people want a referendum, the only party that can
:05:52. > :05:58.deliver that in British politics is the Conservatives. Let me bring the
:05:59. > :06:02.panel in. Nick, where is this going? It is clear to me and anyone who
:06:03. > :06:06.follows European politics that there is no appetite for major treaty
:06:07. > :06:10.change in the short run, particularly for the kind of major
:06:11. > :06:14.changes that Vista Cameron says he is going to get, and yet the Tories
:06:15. > :06:18.are talking about Europe again when they should be talking about the
:06:19. > :06:23.economy. And Francois Hollande is looking at 2017, the year we are
:06:24. > :06:26.meant to have this referendum. There will be a French presidential
:06:27. > :06:30.election going on, and Nicolas Sarkozy will be back in play by
:06:31. > :06:36.then. But James has an interesting point, which is that it is down to
:06:37. > :06:41.Angela Merkel. She would be more receptive to David Cameron's ideas
:06:42. > :06:46.of reform than people assume. She has looked over the edge at a Europe
:06:47. > :06:50.without the UK and said, that is not acceptable, and I am willing to pay
:06:51. > :06:56.a price, not any price, but a price to keep the UK in the European
:06:57. > :06:59.Union. And the French, because the UK and France are the only serious
:07:00. > :07:02.military powers in Europe, will eventually come to that position. So
:07:03. > :07:08.there is more support for David Cameron than people assume. The
:07:09. > :07:17.French are also not a strong position in terms of the euro and
:07:18. > :07:27.French economy. The Foreign Office seem a bit more optimistic about
:07:28. > :07:31.it. Of course they are. Douglas Hurd once told me, we are winning the
:07:32. > :07:33.arguments on the single currency. Of course anything from the Foreign
:07:34. > :07:38.Office comes with a health warning, but if David Cameron had won a
:07:39. > :07:43.majority and was determined to renegotiate, he is in a strong
:07:44. > :07:47.position with Merkel. There is a possibility that the French could
:07:48. > :07:54.eventually be talked around. So it is not entirely bleak on that front
:07:55. > :07:57.for Cameron. When do the Tory party managers say, look, stop banging on
:07:58. > :08:03.about Europe again? The economy is going away. We still have an
:08:04. > :08:07.electoral mountain to climb. Let's just talk about that and not be
:08:08. > :08:13.divided. They should have done that some time ago. It is already too
:08:14. > :08:19.late. The Tories need a seven point lead in the polls to get image are
:08:20. > :08:23.tea. The way things are, that would require a huge change from where we
:08:24. > :08:28.are now . It is very unlikely to happen. So all this is happening in
:08:29. > :08:34.some bizarre imaginary space with wonderful rainbows and sunshine But
:08:35. > :08:42.we can detect the beginnings of a shift in the last couple of weeks.
:08:43. > :08:47.If you talk to Tory backbenchers, Douglas Carswell is now saying in
:08:48. > :08:52.public that it is time to stop the fighting. If they are to get even
:08:53. > :09:00.close to winning the election, they can't do it if they are all against
:09:01. > :09:04.each other. I don't think it is an imaginary space. It is likely that
:09:05. > :09:08.David Cameron will have the largest party in the election. If it is a
:09:09. > :09:09.hung parliament and it is the Liberal Democrats and the
:09:10. > :09:15.Conservative Party, David Cameron will save to Nick Clegg we gave you
:09:16. > :09:20.an AV referendum, I am having this referendum. And it will be difficult
:09:21. > :09:25.for Nick to say no. Let me go back to Mr Wharton. You are going to get
:09:26. > :09:30.a referendum in the manifesto. Other than Ken Clarke, everybody wants it.
:09:31. > :09:33.So why don't you just banked that and get behind the leadership
:09:34. > :09:38.Institute causing endless problems and coming across as a Europe
:09:39. > :09:43.accessed, divided party? I am absolutely behind the leadership.
:09:44. > :09:47.David Cameron announced the policy I am trying to bring forward in this
:09:48. > :09:55.bill. It is in line with the speech he gave this time last year. But
:09:56. > :10:00.getting that commitment into law will help to kick-start the
:10:01. > :10:05.negotiation process and mean everyone will know where we stand.
:10:06. > :10:08.But whatever happens, the Conservatives are committed to
:10:09. > :10:12.delivering a referendum. And to address the point that we talk about
:10:13. > :10:17.Europe too much, that is not the case. We have a good message on the
:10:18. > :10:22.economy, on tackling immigration and reforming welfare. There is more to
:10:23. > :10:27.do, but this is also an important part of policy. But at a time when
:10:28. > :10:32.the economic news seems to be turning in your direction, you are
:10:33. > :10:37.talking about the European referendum. Your backbench
:10:38. > :10:43.colleagues are trying to change the Immigration Bill every which way.
:10:44. > :10:48.Dominic Rather is putting in an amendment is and Mr Nigel Mills has
:10:49. > :10:52.been on this programme, putting in amendments that are clearly illegal.
:10:53. > :10:55.How is that helpful? The fact is that we are in a coalition, so there
:10:56. > :10:58.are areas of policy where Conservatives might want to go
:10:59. > :11:05.further and we are not able to do that. In other areas, we are
:11:06. > :11:12.delivering good reforms. But this is not a matter of going further. The
:11:13. > :11:15.mill 's amendment was clearly a contravention of the Treaty of Rome.
:11:16. > :11:19.That is where you get the headlines from. Some of your colleagues have a
:11:20. > :11:25.death wish? Would they rather have a Miliband government if the choice is
:11:26. > :11:29.an impure Cameron one instead? I don't think anyone in their right
:11:30. > :11:36.mind would rather have a Miliband government. Then why are they
:11:37. > :11:40.behaving that way? We have had some disagreements into the leak and
:11:41. > :11:44.debate within the party, but it was talked about on the panel just now.
:11:45. > :11:48.The Conservative Party is behind David Cameron and focused on winning
:11:49. > :11:52.the next election. Europe is one part of that. We have policies in a
:11:53. > :12:00.range of areas, but we are getting back on the right track. Thank you
:12:01. > :12:05.for being patient with us. Is this ghost story going to go
:12:06. > :12:08.somewhere? Mr Laws is talking through surrogates at the moment,
:12:09. > :12:17.but there is a strategy by the Lib Dems make these differential points
:12:18. > :12:22.now. I think it is fantastic coalition sports and entertaining,
:12:23. > :12:25.but in terms of out there, it has almost no traction whatsoever. I
:12:26. > :12:29.don't think any voters know who Baroness Morgan is and it sounds
:12:30. > :12:32.like one but politicians shouting at another bunch of politicians about
:12:33. > :12:38.their ability to give each other jobs. There is a larger point about
:12:39. > :12:42.the way Michael Gove runs his government. He is notoriously a very
:12:43. > :12:46.polite man surrounded by Rottweiler is, his advisers. He has made
:12:47. > :12:50.enemies of a lot of people in the media, and some of that will come
:12:51. > :12:54.back on him in the next 18 months. We shall see if Mr Laws himself
:12:55. > :12:59.sticks his head above the parapet. That is it for this week. The Daily
:13:00. > :13:03.Politics is on throughout the week at midday on BBC Two, except on
:13:04. > :13:09.Wednesdays, when we are on at 11:30am. I will be back next week at
:13:10. > :13:15.the same time. Remember, if it is Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.