:00:37. > :00:41.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as
:00:44. > :00:48.Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his
:00:49. > :00:52.European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like
:00:53. > :00:55.he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram
:00:56. > :01:00.Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So
:01:01. > :01:05.what's the verdict - full marks or must try harder? He joins us for the
:01:06. > :01:08.Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties
:01:09. > :01:23.are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual
:01:24. > :01:30.and people deal with benefit changes. And tightening household
:01:31. > :01:33.finances. And with me, as always, three
:01:34. > :01:38.journalists who'd make a clean sweep if they were handing out Oscars for
:01:39. > :01:41.political punditry in LA tonight. But just like poor old Leonardo
:01:42. > :01:46.DiCaprio they've never won so much as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's
:01:47. > :01:49.Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance
:01:50. > :01:53.speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth
:01:54. > :01:58.Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.
:01:59. > :02:02.Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim
:02:03. > :02:04.government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat
:02:05. > :02:10.alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of
:02:11. > :02:11.Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in
:02:12. > :02:15.control of the mainly Russian troops seem already to be in
:02:16. > :02:19.where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President
:02:20. > :02:21.Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in
:02:22. > :02:28.Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now
:02:29. > :02:31.turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since
:02:32. > :02:34.the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody
:02:35. > :02:41.expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign
:02:42. > :02:43.Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his
:02:44. > :02:47.support for the new government, though how long it will survive is
:02:48. > :02:54.another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in
:02:55. > :03:00.Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we
:03:01. > :03:08.take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian
:03:09. > :03:12.control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control
:03:13. > :03:20.Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula
:03:21. > :03:27.taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into
:03:28. > :03:31.Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been
:03:32. > :03:36.captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment
:03:37. > :03:41.Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have
:03:42. > :03:45.the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make
:03:46. > :03:50.up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in
:03:51. > :03:56.control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the
:03:57. > :04:03.ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly
:04:04. > :04:09.resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.
:04:10. > :04:15.David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on
:04:16. > :04:19.the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is
:04:20. > :04:26.just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the
:04:27. > :04:31.Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems
:04:32. > :04:37.that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their
:04:38. > :04:40.options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia
:04:41. > :04:45.would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking
:04:46. > :04:50.more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.
:04:51. > :04:56.They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage
:04:57. > :05:00.an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They
:05:01. > :05:04.also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be
:05:05. > :05:07.said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.
:05:08. > :05:13.They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis
:05:14. > :05:17.They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some
:05:18. > :05:21.resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are
:05:22. > :05:25.Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers
:05:26. > :05:30.and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular
:05:31. > :05:35.Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian
:05:36. > :05:43.Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all
:05:44. > :05:47.intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to
:05:48. > :05:51.the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's
:05:52. > :05:55.already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what
:05:56. > :05:59.everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had
:06:00. > :06:04.some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been
:06:05. > :06:10.demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises
:06:11. > :06:16.from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in
:06:17. > :06:20.his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their
:06:21. > :06:25.interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've
:06:26. > :06:32.also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as
:06:33. > :06:37.illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to
:06:38. > :06:42.deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep
:06:43. > :06:45.reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and
:06:46. > :06:51.the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in
:06:52. > :06:56.Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.
:06:57. > :07:04.Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays
:07:05. > :07:11.on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.
:07:12. > :07:15.Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and
:07:16. > :07:20.Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western
:07:21. > :07:26.response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is
:07:27. > :07:34.going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.
:07:35. > :07:43.They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is
:07:44. > :07:49.we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20
:07:50. > :07:53.years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the
:07:54. > :07:58.Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.
:07:59. > :08:06.The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,
:08:07. > :08:12.in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention
:08:13. > :08:15.ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote
:08:16. > :08:20.in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military
:08:21. > :08:24.action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,
:08:25. > :08:31.events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are
:08:32. > :08:36.rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this
:08:37. > :08:39.country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a
:08:40. > :08:44.parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is
:08:45. > :08:48.required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little
:08:49. > :08:56.appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We
:08:57. > :09:01.are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be
:09:02. > :09:04.but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the
:09:05. > :09:10.power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished
:09:11. > :09:15.voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished
:09:16. > :09:17.voice. Clams Iley navigating the decisions to the whims of
:09:18. > :09:25.parliamentary approval. That may or may not be but the Kremlin's not
:09:26. > :09:30.watching how we voted on the Syrian issue? In relation to Syria, it was
:09:31. > :09:36.where is the western resolve here. The truth ask Putin's position is
:09:37. > :09:41.considerably less strong. In diplomatic terms. He had a victory
:09:42. > :09:46.in Syria in relation to chemical weapons and in relation to the
:09:47. > :09:53.West's relationship with Iran. Putin is a vital inter locking figure In
:09:54. > :09:58.demographic and economic terms, Russia's in very deep trouble. The
:09:59. > :10:04.oil price started to fall to any degree, oil and gas price, given the
:10:05. > :10:09.importance of mineral wealth and exports for the Russian economy
:10:10. > :10:16.Putin would be in a lot of trouble. It requires an engagement from the
:10:17. > :10:19.EU and the EU are intending to look at their internal economic problems
:10:20. > :10:24.and will be smarting from the failure within a matter of hours of
:10:25. > :10:29.the deal they tried to broker only nine days' ago.
:10:30. > :10:32.You say if Mr Putin decides to increase the stakes and moves into
:10:33. > :10:38.the east, takes over the whole place, our Government, you say, will
:10:39. > :10:42.find itself with another colossal international headache. Some people
:10:43. > :10:46.watching this will be thinking, what's it got to do with us? It s a
:10:47. > :10:52.long way away from Britain. We haven't a dog in this fight? We have
:10:53. > :10:58.in this regard for the longer term here. I think if there were to be
:10:59. > :11:02.some military action in Ukraine the sense of Russia taking over, it
:11:03. > :11:07.could have a major impact on the global economy in very quick order.
:11:08. > :11:11.You should not deny that. There will be move to have sanctions against
:11:12. > :11:18.Russia. The escalation of that will be difficult. The other fact is
:11:19. > :11:25.looking at our internal affairs and reform, partners, the Baltic states,
:11:26. > :11:29.Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic, they will be looking at a resurgent
:11:30. > :11:35.Russia now and think they'll need to hold as tightly as possible to the
:11:36. > :11:42.EU institutions and the power of Germany at the centre of that. This
:11:43. > :11:47.whole appetite for the reforms politically and economically will be
:11:48. > :11:52.closed very much within a matter of a short period of time. It has
:11:53. > :12:02.longer term implications. Mark Field, thank you.
:12:03. > :12:06.We're joined now by BBC News night's Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is
:12:07. > :12:13.there any prospect of a western military response? Clearly at the
:12:14. > :12:18.moment, it is nil. The boat has sailed with the Crimean. It has been
:12:19. > :12:25.per performed by Russian forces It is now a matter of coordinating a
:12:26. > :12:31.plate cal line. European foreign ministers tomorrow. To say what will
:12:32. > :12:35.our future limits be? Where could we possibly draw red lines? To try to
:12:36. > :12:41.think a couple of steps down this, what happens if Russia interrupts
:12:42. > :12:44.energy supplies to EU member states ornate owe countries? These are the
:12:45. > :12:49.important steps they have to think about. It is quite clear we are in a
:12:50. > :12:54.different world here now. Also, Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign
:12:55. > :12:59.exchange crisis. Within literally a few weeks they could run out of
:13:00. > :13:04.money. All of these are rushing towards decision makers very fast.
:13:05. > :13:09.There is an interim and I suggestion unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea
:13:10. > :13:12.semi-to be under Russian control. There are clashes between the
:13:13. > :13:17.reformers and Russian nationals in the east of the country. What does
:13:18. > :13:21.Mr Putin do next? He has lots of options, of course. He has this
:13:22. > :13:29.carte blanch carte blanch from his Parliament to go in to the rest of
:13:30. > :13:33.Ukraine if he wants to. His military deployment suggests the one bite at
:13:34. > :13:35.a time, just Crimea to start with. See what response comes from the
:13:36. > :13:39.Ukrainian Government. Of course See what response comes from the
:13:40. > :13:44.far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing
:13:45. > :13:49.about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the
:13:50. > :13:57.future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the
:13:58. > :14:02.other side of the equation. The President when faced with
:14:03. > :14:06.demonstrations, many extremists he was unable to deal with that. Now we
:14:07. > :14:11.have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side
:14:12. > :14:16.of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with
:14:17. > :14:25.unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have
:14:26. > :14:29.been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to
:14:30. > :14:35.whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a
:14:36. > :14:40.Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious
:14:41. > :14:48.questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,
:14:49. > :14:53.Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it
:14:54. > :15:01.would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of
:15:02. > :15:07.Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the
:15:08. > :15:14.EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream
:15:15. > :15:19.they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head
:15:20. > :15:32.towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on
:15:33. > :15:39.his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he
:15:40. > :15:43.loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations
:15:44. > :15:48.in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of
:15:49. > :15:54.certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think
:15:55. > :15:56.the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed
:15:57. > :16:01.forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in
:16:02. > :16:05.Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done
:16:06. > :16:08.absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There
:16:09. > :16:16.are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is
:16:17. > :16:21.not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the
:16:22. > :16:27.entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is
:16:28. > :16:32.saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir
:16:33. > :16:36.Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the
:16:37. > :16:42.run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is
:16:43. > :16:46.nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he
:16:47. > :16:54.is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,
:16:55. > :16:58.Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's
:16:59. > :17:02.reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of
:17:03. > :17:07.the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?
:17:08. > :17:11.Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only
:17:12. > :17:14.person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need
:17:15. > :17:19.to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be
:17:20. > :17:23.saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic
:17:24. > :17:30.sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I
:17:31. > :17:34.have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is
:17:35. > :17:39.difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that
:17:40. > :18:13.are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out
:18:14. > :18:14.clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.
:18:15. > :18:16.Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take
:18:17. > :18:19.education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the
:18:20. > :18:21.coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian
:18:22. > :18:24.Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach
:18:25. > :18:26.Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's
:18:27. > :18:28.plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a
:18:29. > :18:31.devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician
:18:32. > :18:33.once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed
:18:34. > :18:36.schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he
:18:37. > :18:38.is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our
:18:39. > :18:40.encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to
:18:41. > :18:42.control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on
:18:43. > :18:44.toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less
:18:45. > :18:50.coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.
:18:51. > :18:51.And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has
:18:52. > :18:57.And he is in a hurry to put all this chance for a Labour Government to
:18:58. > :19:02.change it all themselves and do they really want to? Any questions?
:19:03. > :19:07.Visiting a different school, first in line to get a crack at that
:19:08. > :19:10.would-be Labour's third shadow education secretary since 2010,
:19:11. > :19:14.Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not been taken about fine tuning
:19:15. > :19:18.previous direct opposition to free schools and he has also suggested
:19:19. > :19:22.teachers in England would have to be licensed under a Labour Government,
:19:23. > :19:26.allowing the worst to be sacked and offering training and development to
:19:27. > :19:30.others and of course ending coalition plans to allow unqualified
:19:31. > :19:40.teachers into classrooms. Full policy detail is still unmarked
:19:41. > :19:46.work. Your opinion about evolution? What is very clear is that Labour's
:19:47. > :19:50.education policy is still evolving. We are learning that they have some
:19:51. > :19:55.clear water, but we also seem, from the sting at the back, to get the
:19:56. > :19:58.feeling that there is not a great deal of difference from them and the
:19:59. > :20:03.current Government on types of schools and the way education should
:20:04. > :20:09.proceed. -- from listening at the back. So what exactly is different
:20:10. > :20:14.about their policy? What Tristram Hunt's job is to do is to be open
:20:15. > :20:18.and honest about the shared agenda between us and the Tories. There are
:20:19. > :20:22.a lot of areas where there is clear water between us and Tristram Hunt
:20:23. > :20:27.as to turn his back, shared agenda, stop fighting it, and forge our
:20:28. > :20:33.agenda, which I think people will be really interested in. The art of
:20:34. > :20:38.Government, of course, is to balance competing pictures of policy, even
:20:39. > :20:42.inside your own party. It is fair to say that if Labour reflects and
:20:43. > :20:46.draws its own visions of a shared agenda, it might have to square that
:20:47. > :20:50.idea with teaching unions, who are already unhappy with the pace and
:20:51. > :20:55.tone of change that the Government had sketched out. What we sincerely
:20:56. > :20:59.hope is that if Labour were to form the next Government, that they would
:21:00. > :21:21.look at a serious review of accountability measures. That is
:21:22. > :21:24.really what ways on teachers every single day. Actually they would look
:21:25. > :21:26.at restoring the possibility, for example, of local councillors to be
:21:27. > :21:29.able to open schools. That seems eminently sensible. If they are not
:21:30. > :21:31.going to move back from the free schools and academies programme at
:21:32. > :21:34.the very least they need to say that academy chains will be inspected
:21:35. > :21:36.because at the moment they are not. Labour have balls in the air on
:21:37. > :21:39.education and are still throwing around precise policy detail. There
:21:40. > :21:41.are areas that they could grab hold of and seize possession. A focus on
:21:42. > :21:43.the rounding of the people, developing character, the impact of
:21:44. > :21:46.digitalisation on the classroom Also the role and handling of
:21:47. > :21:50.teachers in the system and the interdependence of schools. That is
:21:51. > :21:54.all still to play for. Currently I think the difference between the
:21:55. > :21:59.parties is that the coalition policies, while we do not agree with
:22:00. > :22:03.all of them, are clear and explicit, and Labour's policies are yet to be
:22:04. > :22:10.formulated in a way that everybody can understand clearly. I don't
:22:11. > :22:17.think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband will want to pick unnecessary fights
:22:18. > :22:23.before the election. I think we will have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness
:22:24. > :22:29.around the whole area of policy but after the election there will be
:22:30. > :22:34.grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But if fuzzy policy before the election
:22:35. > :22:37.is the lesson plan, it does rather risk interested voters being left in
:22:38. > :22:48.the dark. Tristram Hunt joins me now for the
:22:49. > :22:54.Sunday interview. Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael
:22:55. > :22:58.Gove's school reforms would you repeal? We are not interested in
:22:59. > :23:01.throwing a change for the sake of it. When I go round schools,
:23:02. > :23:05.teachers have been through very aggressive changes in the last three
:23:06. > :23:08.years, so when it comes to some of the curriculum reforms we have seen,
:23:09. > :23:12.we are not interested in changing those for the sake of it. Where we
:23:13. > :23:17.are interested in making change is having a focus on technical and
:23:18. > :23:22.vocational education, making sure that the forgotten 15% is properly
:23:23. > :23:26.addressed in our education system. What we saw in your package was an
:23:27. > :23:29.interesting description of how we have seen structural reforms in the
:23:30. > :23:33.names of schools. Academies, free schools, all the rest of it.
:23:34. > :23:36.International evidence is clear that it is the quality of leadership of
:23:37. > :23:40.the headteachers and the quality of teaching in the classroom that
:23:41. > :23:44.transforms the prospects of young people. Instead of tinkering around
:23:45. > :23:48.the names of schools, we focus on teacher quality. Viewers will be
:23:49. > :24:04.shocked to note that this Government approves of unqualified teachers in
:24:05. > :24:06.the classroom. We want to have fully qualified, passionate, motivated
:24:07. > :24:09.teachers in the classroom. It sounds like you might not repeal anything.
:24:10. > :24:11.You might build on it and you might go in a different direction, with
:24:12. > :24:13.more emphasis on technological education but no major repeal of the
:24:14. > :24:18.reforms of Michael Gove? I don't think you want to waste energy on
:24:19. > :24:22.undoing reforms. In certain situations they build on Labour
:24:23. > :24:27.Party policy. We introduced the sponsored academy programmes and we
:24:28. > :24:33.began the Teach First programmes, and we began the London challenge
:24:34. > :24:36.which transformed the educational prospects of children in London We
:24:37. > :24:40.want to roll that out across the country. You have said there will be
:24:41. > :24:45.no more free schools, which Michael Gove introduced, but you will allow
:24:46. > :24:53.parents let academies, which just means free schools by a different
:24:54. > :24:58.name. No, because they will be in certain areas. We want to create new
:24:59. > :25:01.schools with parents. What we have at the moment is a destructive and
:25:02. > :25:05.market-driven approach to education. I was in Stroud on
:25:06. > :25:10.Thursday and plans for a big new school, in an area with surplus
:25:11. > :25:15.places, threatened to destroy the viability of local, rural schools.
:25:16. > :25:18.We want schools to work together in a network of partnership and
:25:19. > :25:22.challenge, rather than this destructive market-driven approach.
:25:23. > :25:48.You say that, but your version of free schools, I think, would only be
:25:49. > :25:50.allowed where there is a shortage of places. That means that where there
:25:51. > :25:53.is an excess of bad schools, parents will have no choice. They still have
:25:54. > :25:56.to send their kids to bad schools. And we have to transform bad schools
:25:57. > :25:59.and that was always the Labour way in Government. At the moment we just
:26:00. > :26:00.have an insertion of new schools. Schools currently underperforming
:26:01. > :26:02.are now underperforming even more. Children only have one chance at
:26:03. > :26:05.education. What about their time in school? Our focus is on the
:26:06. > :26:07.leadership of the headteacher and having quality teachers in the
:26:08. > :26:10.classroom. So they cannot set up new better schools and they have to go
:26:11. > :26:13.to the bad schools. Tony Blair said it should be easier for parents to
:26:14. > :26:16.set up new schools where they are dissatisfied with existing schools.
:26:17. > :26:19.You are not saying that. Even where they are dissatisfied with existing
:26:20. > :26:24.schools, they cannot set up free schools and you are reneging on
:26:25. > :26:29.that. We live in difficult economic circumstances where we have got to
:26:30. > :26:36.focus public finances on the areas of absolute need. We need 250,0 0
:26:37. > :26:39.new school places. 150,000 in London alone. We have to focus on building
:26:40. > :26:48.new schools and where we have to put them. And secondly... Absolutely
:26:49. > :26:53.not. Focusing on those schools. Making sure we turned them around,
:26:54. > :26:56.just as we did in Government. We have had a remarkable degree of
:26:57. > :27:00.waste under the free school programme. If you think of the free
:27:01. > :27:05.school in Derby, the Academy in Bradford, and as we saw in the
:27:06. > :27:09.Telegraph on Friday, the free schools in Suffolk, a great deal of
:27:10. > :27:12.waste of public money on underperforming free schools. That
:27:13. > :27:16.is not the Labour way. We focus on making sure that kids in schools at
:27:17. > :27:22.the moment get the best possible education. Except that in your own
:27:23. > :27:29.backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of secondary school pupils attend a
:27:30. > :27:34.good or outstanding school. 148 out of 150 of the worst performing local
:27:35. > :27:37.authorities and it is Labour-controlled. Still terrible
:27:38. > :27:43.schools and yet you say parents should not have the freedom to start
:27:44. > :27:46.a better school. We have great schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well.
:27:47. > :27:51.We face challenges, just as Wolverhampton does and the Isle of
:27:52. > :27:56.Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like large parts of the country. What is
:27:57. > :28:00.the solution to that? Making sure we share excellence among the existing
:28:01. > :28:03.schools and making sure we have quality leadership in schools. Those
:28:04. > :28:08.schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all academies. It is not a question only
:28:09. > :28:11.of structure but of leadership. It is also a question of going back to
:28:12. > :28:15.the responsibility of parents to make sure their kids are school
:28:16. > :28:50.ready when they get to school. To make sure they are reading to their
:28:51. > :28:52.children in the evening. We can t put it all on teachers. Parents have
:28:53. > :28:55.responsibilities. I understand that but you have told me Labour's policy
:28:56. > :28:58.would not be to set up new schools which parents hope will be better.
:28:59. > :29:00.Parents continue to send their kids to bad schools in areas like Stoke.
:29:01. > :29:03.Labour has had plenty of time to sort out these schools in Stoke and
:29:04. > :29:05.they are still among the worst performing in the country. You are
:29:06. > :29:08.condemning these parents to having to send their kids to bad schools.
:29:09. > :29:11.Where we have seen the sett ing up of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that
:29:12. > :29:14.is not the simple solution. Is simply setting up a new is not a
:29:15. > :29:16.successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on
:29:17. > :29:19.Friday at a failing comprehensive is not a successful model. What works
:29:20. > :29:21.is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing
:29:22. > :29:22.comprehensive school and now people are queueing round the block to get
:29:23. > :29:25.into it. You can turn with the right leadership,
:29:26. > :29:29.passionate and motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the
:29:30. > :29:35.learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of the Labour
:29:36. > :29:38.Government, only four kids from your this Government would set up the new
:29:39. > :29:41.school. In Birmingham, they got in a great headmaster and turned the
:29:42. > :29:43.school around and now people are queueing round the block to get into
:29:44. > :29:45.it. You can turnaround schools with the right leadership, passionate and
:29:46. > :29:48.motivated teachers, and parents engaged with the learning outcome of
:29:49. > :29:50.their kids. In the last few years of a Labour Government, only four kids
:29:51. > :29:54.from your area of and you had plenty of chances to put this right but
:29:55. > :29:57.only four got to the two and you had plenty of chances to put this right
:29:58. > :30:03.but only four got to the two leading universities. Traditionally young
:30:04. > :30:07.people could leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries,
:30:08. > :30:10.the steel industry, the traditionally young people could
:30:11. > :30:16.leave school at 16 and walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel
:30:17. > :30:20.industry, the but also to get an apprenticeship at Jaguar Land
:30:21. > :30:27.Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten
:30:28. > :30:30.15%, which we have just not seen from this Government, focusing on
:30:31. > :30:51.technical and vocational pathways, is fundamental to Your headmaster
:30:52. > :30:59.was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good teacher? He He never taught me.
:31:00. > :31:04.Over 90% of teeners in the private sector are qualified. They look for
:31:05. > :31:09.not simply teachers with qualified teacher status. Teachers with MAs.
:31:10. > :31:11.Teachers who are improving them cephalitis. Becoming better
:31:12. > :31:21.educators. cephalitis. Becoming better
:31:22. > :31:25.teaching. You were taught by unqualified teachers. Your parents
:31:26. > :31:29.paid over ?15,000 a year for you being taught by unqualified
:31:30. > :31:32.teachers. Why did you make such a big deal of it? Because we've seen
:31:33. > :31:38.right around the world those education systems which focus on
:31:39. > :31:44.having the most qualified teachers perform the best. It cannot be right
:31:45. > :31:50.that anyone can simply turn up, as at the moment, have schools at
:31:51. > :31:55.veritising for unqualified teachers teaching in the classroom. We want
:31:56. > :32:01.the best qualified teachers with the deepest subject knowledge, for the
:32:02. > :32:07.passion in learning for their kids. It is absurd we are having arguments
:32:08. > :32:11.about this. Simply having a paper qualification doesn't make you a
:32:12. > :32:17.great teacher. Let me take you to Brighton college. It is gone from
:32:18. > :32:20.the 147th to the 18 18th best private school in the land. Fllt the
:32:21. > :32:42.headmaster says: This is the top Sundaytimes school
:32:43. > :32:48.of the year. The school in derby where this Government allowed
:32:49. > :32:51.unqualified teaching assist taints. We had teachers who could barely
:32:52. > :32:54.speak English. That is because if We had teachers who could barely
:32:55. > :32:59.you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.
:33:00. > :33:04.The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were
:33:05. > :33:09.running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue
:33:10. > :33:13.about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.
:33:14. > :33:17.Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning
:33:18. > :33:21.is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage It
:33:22. > :33:27.doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.
:33:28. > :33:32.We want our teachers to have continue it will development. It is
:33:33. > :33:38.not good enough to have your initial teacher trainingaged work through
:33:39. > :33:43.your career for 30 years. You need continual learning. Learning how to
:33:44. > :33:45.deal with digital technology. Refresh your subject knowledge. As
:33:46. > :33:50.deal with digital technology. an historian I help teachers. You've
:33:51. > :33:56.taught as an unqualified teacher. Not in charge of a subject group. I
:33:57. > :34:01.give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to as many schools as possible. I don't
:34:02. > :34:07.blame you. It is uplifting. Would you sack all unqualified teachers?
:34:08. > :34:14.We'd want them all to gain teacher status. What if they say no? If they
:34:15. > :34:20.are not interested in improving skills and deepening their knowledge
:34:21. > :34:27.they should not be in the classroom. If a free school or academy hired a
:34:28. > :34:32.teach thinking they are a great teacher but unqualified, if they are
:34:33. > :34:37.then forced by you to fire them they will be in breach of the law.
:34:38. > :34:39.They are being urged by us to make sure they have
:34:40. > :34:43.They are being urged by us to make status. We've lots of unqualified
:34:44. > :34:47.teachers as long as they are on the pathway to making sure they are
:34:48. > :34:52.qualified. But if they say they don't want to do this, will you fire
:34:53. > :34:56.them? It is not an unreasonable suggestion is that the teachers in
:34:57. > :35:00.charge of our young people have qualifications to teach and inspire
:35:01. > :35:06.our young people particularly when we face global competition from
:35:07. > :35:11.Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head teacher of Brighton college finds
:35:12. > :35:17.incredibly inspeechational teachers who don't' necessarily have a
:35:18. > :35:24.teaching qualifications. It is a different skill to teach ten young
:35:25. > :35:28.nice boys and girls in Brighton to teaches 20 or 30 quids with
:35:29. > :35:33.challenging circumstances, special educational needs, different
:35:34. > :35:37.ability. Being a teacher at Brighton college is an easy gig in comparison
:35:38. > :35:44.to other schools. Where we want teachers to have a capacity to teach
:35:45. > :35:52.properly. Do you think Tristram could ever lead the Labour Party? I
:35:53. > :35:56.think Ed is a great leader, the reforms yesterday were a real sign
:35:57. > :35:59.for his leadership. And the fact David Owen, the man with a
:36:00. > :36:04.pre-history with our party is back with us. It is great. Even Gideon
:36:05. > :36:13.had to change his name to George. Have you thought of switching to
:36:14. > :36:18.Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony! Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot.
:36:19. > :36:23.I love the Labour because it accepts everybody from me to Len McCluskey.
:36:24. > :36:27.We are a big, broad happy family on our way to Government. Thank you
:36:28. > :36:32.very much. You're watching The Sunday Politics.
:36:33. > :36:38.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us for Sunday
:36:39. > :36:46.politics Scotland. In over 20 minutes I'll
:36:47. > :36:55.Well come to that part of the programme with us here in the East.
:36:56. > :36:58.Relatives of those scorned hn the First World War for refusing to take
:36:59. > :37:10.up arms commemorate their loved ones. They were fighting for what
:37:11. > :37:13.they believed was right. UKIP's leader addresses the party
:37:14. > :37:20.faithful at its spring confdrence and we speak to are NCP abott the
:37:21. > :37:31.party's fortunes in the East. Guess which politician won `
:37:32. > :37:39.crackerjack pencil decades `go. First let's meet our guests. Keith
:37:40. > :37:51.Simpson, chairman of the World War I commemoration committee. Kelvin
:37:52. > :37:56.Hopkins from Labour. More from them later. I want to start with those
:37:57. > :38:00.shocking events in the North Sea. Two men thought to have been
:38:01. > :38:07.deported jumped off a ferry. A huge rescue effort was launched but is
:38:08. > :38:14.now one has been found. This was a desperate act. If it was thd act of
:38:15. > :38:21.illegal deportees is there `n issue over security? We do not know if it
:38:22. > :38:26.is a desperate act. There are some questions about what really
:38:27. > :38:34.happened. We do not know thd details of what they were expecting to get
:38:35. > :38:37.at the other end. I cannot genuinely believe that somebody is so
:38:38. > :38:42.desperate that they are going to do this kind of thing.
:38:43. > :38:49.Can you believe that somebody could be so desperate to do that? Indeed.
:38:50. > :38:53.I have a large minority comlunity in my constituency and immigration is
:38:54. > :38:57.part of my postbag. I have come across people who are fearftl of
:38:58. > :39:06.being deported, often two countries that are not so liberal as Britain.
:39:07. > :39:08.Is your Government creating an atmosphere around immigration that
:39:09. > :39:13.is perhaps making people take things into their own hands? Kelvin Hopkins
:39:14. > :39:17.is right that there are certain countries you could be deported to.
:39:18. > :39:21.But getting the Harwich Ferry is not taking you to one of them. Hf you
:39:22. > :39:32.were going to some of the more desperate parts of Africa or Asia.
:39:33. > :39:35.Public opinion is on our side. Labour did hugely under esthmate the
:39:36. > :39:45.numbers of people that are going to come here from the EU. Has that in
:39:46. > :39:49.part treated the problem? Yds, I suspect that many of the deportees
:39:50. > :39:54.are not going to the Europe`n Union. They did under estimated massively.
:39:55. > :39:58.I raised it at the time. I still think there is a problem with free
:39:59. > :40:02.movement within the European Union. But the people I am talking about
:40:03. > :40:07.are going to countries that are far less safe than anything in Durope.
:40:08. > :40:12.Immigration has been just one of their talking points at the UKIP
:40:13. > :40:17.spring gathering. It seems the party cannot stop winning seats in this
:40:18. > :40:23.region. It plays a major role in our local Government. A survey last year
:40:24. > :40:29.showed UKIP supports your at 21 , the highest in the country.
:40:30. > :40:33.According to research of thd council by`elections that had taken place
:40:34. > :40:41.since last summer the Tory vote is down by 6.5%, the Lib Dem voters
:40:42. > :40:47.down by 6%, Labour is down by 4 , UKIP is up by 17%. Nevertheless the
:40:48. > :40:53.party has come up for criticism about whether it has any policies.
:40:54. > :41:00.Yes, says the party leader Nigel Farage, despite calling his own 2010
:41:01. > :41:04.manifesto drivel. Now, says the man who wrote it, former UKIP NDP for
:41:05. > :41:10.the East later defected to the Conservatives.
:41:11. > :41:16.These people are not fit for Government. They are not a serious
:41:17. > :41:21.political party. Nigel Farage is not interested in
:41:22. > :41:27.all says. He would rather h`ve a blank aid of paper. They will not be
:41:28. > :41:31.a European manifesto. You fhnd out what they believe in after the
:41:32. > :41:36.election which is no way for a serious was a coal party to act You
:41:37. > :41:39.have to believe in policies to be a proper political party. UKIP have
:41:40. > :41:46.been found wanting. I am joined by a UKIP NEP for the
:41:47. > :41:51.East, Stewart Agnew. You are not fit for Governmdnt. You
:41:52. > :41:56.need policies to be credibld. We are keeping things close to our chest
:41:57. > :42:01.until the campaign for the general election because we do not want our
:42:02. > :42:07.policy is stolen. However where we can have policies on other subject
:42:08. > :42:13.which the EU Government, our agricultural policy is now coming
:42:14. > :42:16.out. I have an influential hn that. I am sure almost people in the East
:42:17. > :42:21.who are showing their support for UKIP would like to know abott your
:42:22. > :42:27.policies. Let us start locally. Council tax. Are you going to freeze
:42:28. > :42:35.council tax? That is the aspiration, but that policy as yet
:42:36. > :42:39.has not come out properly. @s I said at the beginning we are keeping our
:42:40. > :42:43.cards close to our chest. This is not a general election that is
:42:44. > :42:47.coming up. It is a European Parliament election. Our policy on
:42:48. > :42:51.council tax is not relevant to that election.
:42:52. > :42:56.How can people vote for you if they do not know what they are voting
:42:57. > :43:02.for? And council tax is verx close to people 's hearts. What are you
:43:03. > :43:09.going to do about local services? On both of these subjects, these are
:43:10. > :43:12.questions for the general election. We are not launching our general
:43:13. > :43:20.election manifesto 18 months before the election. We are facing a
:43:21. > :43:26.European Parliament election. We have got local elections coling up.
:43:27. > :43:28.Are you not concerned about those? Surely you want this opporttnity to
:43:29. > :43:35.tell everyone what your polhcies are? I have not got our loc`l
:43:36. > :43:39.manifesto in front of me as I speak. But you can see that where we have
:43:40. > :43:46.managed to form a group in the Norfolk County Council that we have
:43:47. > :43:49.managed to break the committee system there. That is something we
:43:50. > :43:54.want to do. We have managed to achieve it. Why do you think you
:43:55. > :43:58.have so much support in this region? The number`1 reason is that
:43:59. > :44:09.we are the of emigration from Eastern Europe. Are you not just a
:44:10. > :44:13.protest vote? People accuse us of being a protest party. But the
:44:14. > :44:16.polling we have done suggests that 60% of those who vote for us for
:44:17. > :44:22.four hours because of the policies that they have read, rather than
:44:23. > :44:27.just as a protest. But you `re not telling us about your poliches. I am
:44:28. > :44:34.not want to talk about the general election Wallasey. We are holding us
:44:35. > :44:39.back. We do not want our policy is stolen. We are very concerndd about
:44:40. > :44:45.that happening. We want to produce a general election manifesto that is
:44:46. > :44:47.short and to the point. We want a chance and the opportunity to
:44:48. > :44:53.discuss those over the next few months. We are not talking `bout
:44:54. > :44:59.that at the moment. Do you think that it is your stance on
:45:00. > :45:06.immigration that is winning support? Yes. There are three or four main
:45:07. > :45:11.platforms. Immigration is now the number one in most people 's minds.
:45:12. > :45:16.That is the number one issud in this country. There is also the cost 53
:45:17. > :45:22.million homes every single day. Then there is the problem of democracy.
:45:23. > :45:30.Our laws are made by people that we do not collect. Then there hs the
:45:31. > :45:33.big worry of the EU energy policy putting up all our electrichty
:45:34. > :45:38.bills. Those are the things that we are fighting the selection on.
:45:39. > :45:43.3.5 million jobs. That is what the Government says is linked to EU
:45:44. > :45:51.membership. That has to be ` good thing. It is total nonsense. I would
:45:52. > :45:57.like to see it more stronglx. It is nonsense. But we were to le`ve the
:45:58. > :46:02.European Union we have 63 mhllion relatively affluent customers goods
:46:03. > :46:08.produced in the European Unhon. We are in the driving seat. We buy far
:46:09. > :46:13.more from them we sell to them. They need our custom. We are not going to
:46:14. > :46:19.see a trade war. This idea of 3 5 million jobs is nonsense.
:46:20. > :46:25.Thank you for joining us. What do you make of that? It was
:46:26. > :46:32.very revealing that Stewart Agnew did not want to produce any form of
:46:33. > :46:36.manifesto. More seriously, what Kelvin Hopkins and I have to take
:46:37. > :46:41.into account that in the last couple of years there has been a rhse in
:46:42. > :46:46.support of UKIP. That is for lots of reasons. It is not only thehr core
:46:47. > :46:51.policy of emigration. I suspect as well it is none of the abovd.
:46:52. > :46:58.Labour, Liberal Democrats, Conservatives, are dissatisfied
:46:59. > :47:07.Your share of the voters down by 6.5% Mr Mac are you worried? Yes.
:47:08. > :47:10.UKIP is a party to the right of the Conservative Party, so miles away
:47:11. > :47:18.from Labour. They are very anti`socialist. They are on the
:47:19. > :47:23.free`market right wing of politics. Labour voters have no interdst in
:47:24. > :47:30.voting for a party of that kind In Britain we have a big Labour
:47:31. > :47:34.majority. `` in Luton. Figures show there was an increase
:47:35. > :47:38.in net immigration of one third UKIP says you cannot control your
:47:39. > :47:48.borders and less you are out of the EU.
:47:49. > :47:53.Government has reduced emigration. A lot of the EU emigration has been
:47:54. > :47:58.because of the accession of Romania and Bulgaria. The irony is that
:47:59. > :48:04.because the UK economy has started to pick up freedom of movemdnt of
:48:05. > :48:10.workers, they are here. Stewart Agnew is a farmer. It does seem to
:48:11. > :48:13.me that the NFU are saying that they are happy to employ lots of foreign
:48:14. > :48:22.workers. He cannot have it both ways. Kelvin Hopkins, you are a
:48:23. > :48:25.Eurosceptic. He said Ed Milhband was unwise to call people barking for
:48:26. > :48:35.wanting to leave the EU. Yot are on the side of UKIP. I am a socialist
:48:36. > :48:38.of the left. 40 years ago L`bour was the Eurosceptic party. It w`s Edward
:48:39. > :48:44.Heath got us into the Europdan Union. I want a democratic socialist
:48:45. > :48:50.Europe, not one built on frde`market capitalist principles.
:48:51. > :48:55.This year marks the centenary of the outbreak of the First World War But
:48:56. > :48:57.it was not only those who fought and died who suffered. We found the
:48:58. > :49:04.grandchildren of a prominent Quaker who spent over two years behind bars
:49:05. > :49:13.for his beliefs and was branded a coward.
:49:14. > :49:16.I call to arms in 1914. Thotsands of men enlisted in a wave of p`triotic
:49:17. > :49:22.fervour, but not all voluntdered to fight.
:49:23. > :49:28.A respected member of the Qtakers was a pacifist. They joined the
:49:29. > :49:35.friends and owns unit is a ledical orderly serving in France in 19 6.
:49:36. > :49:42.He served the country in th`t sense. At the end of the war he was given a
:49:43. > :49:45.couple of medals. His familx have been researching the story `nd
:49:46. > :49:48.discovered from letters to the grandmother that he was worried
:49:49. > :50:03.about the military nature of the adults unit. `` of the ambulance
:50:04. > :50:08.unit. Had I known how things are I would not have joined. He w`s one of
:50:09. > :50:14.16,000 men who refuse to fight wins conscription was introduced in 916.
:50:15. > :50:18.He had left the ambulance unit. He was tried by local tribunal and
:50:19. > :50:24.jailed three times as a conscientious objector. He spent two
:50:25. > :50:27.and a half years in prison. My grandmother always said that the
:50:28. > :50:34.years he spent in prison aided his early death. I know that shd was
:50:35. > :50:43.sent a white feather, as a lot of people were. Some prison sentences
:50:44. > :50:51.for conscientious objectors were harsh. They were given work to do
:50:52. > :50:55.which had no point or value. At that time the idea that you were not a
:50:56. > :51:01.real man and miss you fought for your country was a hard one to stand
:51:02. > :51:06.against. The moral stand must have won him
:51:07. > :51:10.some support. After the war he was elected Labour councillors here at
:51:11. > :51:17.City Hall. In 1946 he becamd Sheriff of Norwich. His whole life was spent
:51:18. > :51:22.in endeavours to help other people. That shows the character of the man.
:51:23. > :51:25.His purpose was never selfish. He was always doing what he cotld for
:51:26. > :51:33.others. He died in 1949 following a stroke,
:51:34. > :51:38.aged just 60. I can remember him as a very gentle kindly man. Mx
:51:39. > :51:43.grandmother was much more stern My grandfather did lots of things with
:51:44. > :51:50.us when we were there. I am very proud of him. I was like to be able
:51:51. > :51:57.to see that I am the ground. Of that gentleman. He was a man who had
:51:58. > :52:01.principles. I admire him for sticking by his principles. Anybody
:52:02. > :52:07.who went through the war, whether on the front, or as conscientious
:52:08. > :52:15.objectors, on both sides of the story they both suffered. Pdople
:52:16. > :52:22.like him and the 16,000 othdrs at conscientious objectors werd not
:52:23. > :52:32.coward 's. What they did to a great deal of courage.
:52:33. > :52:38.Kelvin Hopkins, should therd be more recognition of the sacrificd made by
:52:39. > :52:43.conscientious objectors? I think they are recognised. People
:52:44. > :52:51.understand. War is a pond to millions of us. It is an appalling
:52:52. > :52:54.thing to do. Some awards had to be fought. I understand those who feel
:52:55. > :52:58.that killing other human behngs is absolutely immoral and something
:52:59. > :53:04.that should not do. I understand and I sympathise. The fact that there
:53:05. > :53:08.are people like pacifists, like Quakers, who see all killing is
:53:09. > :53:12.wrong, is something to make us all think.
:53:13. > :53:18.Should conscientious objectors the commemorative? They will be. The
:53:19. > :53:23.Government has said that under a programme of commemoration let 000
:53:24. > :53:28.flowers bloom. There will bd all kinds of organisations. We will look
:53:29. > :53:32.at different aspects. Those who were conscientious objectors werd part of
:53:33. > :53:48.our national story. They re`lly were a tiny minority. The right to
:53:49. > :53:56.conscientious objection is still not guaranteed in Europe is it? Each
:53:57. > :53:59.country is different. In Brhtain most of our military servicd has
:54:00. > :54:06.been voluntarily. We did not have conscription until 1916. It is the
:54:07. > :54:09.credit of Parliament that the amended the military servicd act to
:54:10. > :54:15.enable their to be conscientious objection. Most countries now within
:54:16. > :54:20.NATO have a very strong and easy way of opting out of what you and I
:54:21. > :54:26.would call National service or conscription. Kelvin Hopkins, is
:54:27. > :54:33.there a danger of celebrating war rather than commemorating? Hndeed.
:54:34. > :54:37.My knowledge of this First World War, I just think of the horror of
:54:38. > :54:48.the trenches. My wife's Rand father died on the Somme. `` the
:54:49. > :54:50.grandfather of my wife. I rdmember as a child many elderly wom`n who
:54:51. > :54:54.were the wives and girlfriends of those who died in the First World
:54:55. > :55:01.War. It was a horror not to be repeated. And yet we still
:55:02. > :55:05.celebrated today. I think wd must remember the people that night and
:55:06. > :55:13.salute them for their bravery and what they went through. `` the
:55:14. > :55:20.people that died. What do you see as the key `im of
:55:21. > :55:25.this year's emanations? The key aim is to remember why we went to war,
:55:26. > :55:30.in particular in terms of young people, thinking about how original
:55:31. > :55:35.conflict can burst into a world war. Even as we are speaking there is a
:55:36. > :55:43.crisis in the Ukraine. Secondly to commemorate the changes that took
:55:44. > :55:46.place. It was world. Thirdlx to commemorate the participation of all
:55:47. > :55:50.our ancestors. Not just the men who became soldiers or those who were
:55:51. > :55:55.conscientious and sectors, but hundreds of thousands of wolen were
:55:56. > :55:58.directly affected. It is not a celebration. It is a commemoration.
:55:59. > :56:03.I hope that young people will look at the evidence and come to their
:56:04. > :56:08.own conclusions. What do you hope young people will
:56:09. > :56:11.take from it? I hope that they will see that human beings must not do
:56:12. > :56:17.these things in future. We lust work for a world that is peaceful. That
:56:18. > :56:23.means equality, social justhce, so that context do not arise.
:56:24. > :56:26.It is time for our 62nd round up of the week.
:56:27. > :56:31.There are no crackerjack pencils for guessing who made an appear`nce on
:56:32. > :56:33.the TV show many years before he got used to playing the game of politics
:56:34. > :56:47.in the House of Commons. Ipswich MP Ben Gummer proposed in
:56:48. > :56:53.the House this week that National Insurance should be renamed the
:56:54. > :56:59.Earnings Tax. It walks like a tax. We should call it a tax.
:57:00. > :57:02.Peter Bone 's says that he `nd his wife are innocent of allegations of
:57:03. > :57:08.fraud relating to the care of his mother`in`law.
:57:09. > :57:11.Staff working for the policd in Sapphic protested over proposals to
:57:12. > :57:20.close the control room as plans to merge operations. Both Suffolk and
:57:21. > :57:25.Norfolk's finances will be dire The Dean committed the Speaker on
:57:26. > :57:35.his new post. I congratulatd you on your new role.
:57:36. > :57:39.John Bercow might have hoped that this footage of him losing on
:57:40. > :57:47.crackerjack had remained N the archive.
:57:48. > :57:53.Your prize is a crackerjack pencils. I wondered if he still has that
:57:54. > :57:58.pencil. Have either of you got archive footage waiting in the
:57:59. > :58:05.wings? I dread to think. I do have. I did the last ever after d`rk on
:58:06. > :58:15.Channel four with Oliver Redd. You can watch it on YouTube. I have
:58:16. > :58:18.never forgotten it. Let us go back to that police story.
:58:19. > :58:27.Norfolk and Suffolk to mergd control rooms. Both need to save money. What
:58:28. > :58:33.is your take on it? Provided that operational aspects are not diluted
:58:34. > :58:38.it will make sense. We do that with the district councils. A lot of the
:58:39. > :58:41.back of this stuff is done. I know that there are objections. Somebody
:58:42. > :58:51.said they would be a lack of local knowledge. In Norfolk at thd moment
:58:52. > :58:58.if you see you are falling from a certain place, there is somdwhere
:58:59. > :59:01.else that sounds very simil`r. The Police and Crime Commissioner 's
:59:02. > :59:08.are not in agreement over it. That is interesting. One concern I have
:59:09. > :59:13.is that the jobs are being lost We live in a period of high and
:59:14. > :59:23.implement. I used to work for Unison and now go. I am concerned for them.
:59:24. > :59:33.The most important point is to preserve local is in policing slugs
:59:34. > :59:38.so that we have local contacts. so that we have local contacts.
:59:39. > :59:43.Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to
:59:44. > :59:55.you. This week grant Shap said he wanted
:59:56. > :00:01.to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach
:00:02. > :00:05.out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they
:00:06. > :00:14.should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and
:00:15. > :00:23.two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.
:00:24. > :00:29.Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on
:00:30. > :00:34.with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol
:00:35. > :00:39.must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for
:00:40. > :00:46.our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social
:00:47. > :00:50.mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.
:00:51. > :00:56.I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only
:00:57. > :01:02.party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and
:01:03. > :01:05.minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too
:01:06. > :01:10.little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the
:01:11. > :01:17.elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The
:01:18. > :01:23.republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious
:01:24. > :01:27.blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs
:01:28. > :01:32.Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the
:01:33. > :01:37.Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.
:01:38. > :01:43.Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping
:01:44. > :01:45.that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would
:01:46. > :01:55.want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.
:01:56. > :02:00.Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was
:02:01. > :02:06.being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about
:02:07. > :02:12.appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower
:02:13. > :02:16.middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great
:02:17. > :02:23.cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,
:02:24. > :02:29.how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four
:02:30. > :02:35.next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance
:02:36. > :02:39.tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned
:02:40. > :02:43.income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers
:02:44. > :02:51.never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the
:02:52. > :02:53.thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm
:02:54. > :03:00.beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,
:03:01. > :03:05.there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.
:03:06. > :03:11.They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can
:03:12. > :03:17.we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different
:03:18. > :03:21.pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will
:03:22. > :03:27.mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher
:03:28. > :03:29.called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have
:03:30. > :03:33.strivers in the people who run themselves want to see you have
:03:34. > :03:38.party so you know what we've been through, the struggles we've had.
:03:39. > :03:44.How many of the six drawing up the manifesto have had ever a mortgage.
:03:45. > :03:49.The one who's not an old Etonian went to St Paul's. He's a day
:03:50. > :03:53.schoolboy! It is interesting and it was funny you mentioned an elephant.
:03:54. > :03:58.Don't think of an elephant as the title of that book. Calling it the
:03:59. > :04:02.Workers Party draws attention to the Tories biggest electoral weakness.
:04:03. > :04:08.The idea they are a class apart Out of touch. I think it is interesting,
:04:09. > :04:17.they have identified their elections are won or lost by this particular
:04:18. > :04:22.demo graphic of the C 1, and C . Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed
:04:23. > :04:27.load, Tony Blair got them. His failure in 2010 is the reason David
:04:28. > :04:33.Cameron didn't win an overall majority. I'm disappointed with the
:04:34. > :04:37.ladder. You should have a hammer or sickle! The Conservatives have a
:04:38. > :04:41.terrible brand problem. You heard them explaining why they did badly
:04:42. > :04:46.in the Wythenshawe by-election, saying there's quite a large council
:04:47. > :04:51.estate there In 1961, I think the Conservatives won a by-election back
:04:52. > :04:55.then, they were getting through to those sort of voters. There is not a
:04:56. > :04:59.single Conservative councillor in Manchester. They have this terrible
:05:00. > :05:05.problem. You're right for them to pick up on the five Etonians writing
:05:06. > :05:13.their manifesto. David Cameron sir rounding himself with his own. He
:05:14. > :05:22.doesn't have to do that. I seas things like isn't Robert Halpen
:05:23. > :05:27.great. He decides and has his own. He has some more slightly common
:05:28. > :05:30.people from St Paul's! One of the ways the Conservatives hoped to
:05:31. > :05:37.broaden their appeal is the tougher line on immigration. We learned net
:05:38. > :05:44.immigration is rising substantially. Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage
:05:45. > :05:48.of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In scores of our cities and market
:05:49. > :05:59.towns, this country, in a short space of time, has become N'Zonzi
:06:00. > :06:03.rkable whether it is -- unrecognisable. Whether it is the
:06:04. > :06:07.impact on local schools and hospitals. In many parts of England
:06:08. > :06:12.you don't hospitals. In many parts of England
:06:13. > :06:17.is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and
:06:18. > :06:24.grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.
:06:25. > :06:31.Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.
:06:32. > :06:38.Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,
:06:39. > :06:45.nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the
:06:46. > :06:55.letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland
:06:56. > :07:02.for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.
:07:03. > :07:09.How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for
:07:10. > :07:14.immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory
:07:15. > :07:19.strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they
:07:20. > :07:24.were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.
:07:25. > :07:28.It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining
:07:29. > :07:35.for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.
:07:36. > :07:38.There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your
:07:39. > :07:44.administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to
:07:45. > :07:48.you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about
:07:49. > :07:55.numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their
:07:56. > :08:00.communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this
:08:01. > :08:04.isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem
:08:05. > :08:08.for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration
:08:09. > :08:13.figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the
:08:14. > :08:20.EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,
:08:21. > :08:24.people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the
:08:25. > :08:27.Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you
:08:28. > :08:31.believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t
:08:32. > :08:35.matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from
:08:36. > :08:40.all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But
:08:41. > :08:44.you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They
:08:45. > :08:46.acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the
:08:47. > :08:50.economy, people don't feel it best in the abstract for the
:08:51. > :08:54.their daily lives. There's a huge vacuum for the case where
:08:55. > :09:00.immigration should be in our public life. I remember a time when the
:09:01. > :09:05.economy was in such decline there was a rush to the door in the
:09:06. > :09:08.sixties and seventies. Now we are claiming our economy's doing better
:09:09. > :09:14.than any of the other major economies bar Germany, people want
:09:15. > :09:18.to join in our success. London was a declining city until the
:09:19. > :09:26.mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be honest. She was proposing a cap on
:09:27. > :09:29.immigration. Not going to happen. Today she is saying maybe people
:09:30. > :09:35.from poorer member states cannot come in until their economies grow.
:09:36. > :09:39.That's future accession states. That's Turkey in ten years' time It
:09:40. > :09:44.is causing divisions with the coalition. She's bashing Vince
:09:45. > :09:49.Cable. You often see Liberal Democrats bashing the Tories. You
:09:50. > :09:53.don't often see a Tory minister bash Vince Cable. She does on the
:09:54. > :09:57.immigration figures. He thought they were good news. Last week, Vince
:09:58. > :10:02.responded to the news by saying it was a policy he was happy for the
:10:03. > :10:07.gift to flunk. The problem was going for a cap. There are six moving
:10:08. > :10:14.parts. UK citizens leaving, coming back. EU citizens leaving and coming
:10:15. > :10:21.back and then third party nationals. And students coming to study. Of
:10:22. > :10:30.course. You only have control over the EU citizens. Have you to clamp
:10:31. > :10:35.down on ace strayian, Chinese or American graduates. They should have
:10:36. > :10:43.gone for the Australian points system. I don't have a pure cap on
:10:44. > :10:49.numbers just background etc. Tim Farran said in the European election
:10:50. > :10:53.either vogue Liberal Democrat or UKIP. He turned that to his
:10:54. > :10:59.advantage. It is hopeful but he s come up with a way to spin this
:11:00. > :11:09.Labour has his special conference. Was it or was it not an event? Not
:11:10. > :11:14.sure it was the biggest moment in the party since 1918. But things
:11:15. > :11:20.fell apart in the special conference in 1981. 2004 got another special
:11:21. > :11:24.conference. Who's on board? David Owen who founded the gang of four.
:11:25. > :11:28.He's not joined but he's given them money. He's not going to sit with
:11:29. > :11:35.them in the Lord's. He's given money. They lost the gang of four.
:11:36. > :11:41.Back comes David Owen. Not historic? Why would he want it to be more
:11:42. > :11:45.significant than it was. There's a tendency to see him taking the fight
:11:46. > :11:51.to his party. Why would he want that? The fact it has not pleased
:11:52. > :12:03.Grant Shapps is not a test to see whether this has worked. It has been
:12:04. > :12:09.described as an historic moment and incremental of what John did. The
:12:10. > :12:17.trade union block voters disappeared a long time ago. They still have 50%
:12:18. > :12:22.of the vote. But 2,000 of union members voting for this guy has
:12:23. > :12:27.gone. It is a reform from 20 years ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed
:12:28. > :12:33.Miliband's stored up trouble. Len McCluskey wants a million new homes
:12:34. > :12:37.and answered to the benefit caps is not reconcilable with the deficit
:12:38. > :12:40.reduction strategy. In five years' time if there is a Labour Government
:12:41. > :12:47.it becomes very difficult. We should keep an eye on it? Always. Labour
:12:48. > :12:53.Party process is never ending. Unlike this programme. That's all
:12:54. > :12:57.from us today. Continuing reports of events in the Ukraine on the BBC
:12:58. > :13:03.News Channel. There's no Daily Politics tomorrow because of cover
:13:04. > :13:08.Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial service at Westminster Abbey on BBC
:13:09. > :13:10.Two live. We'll be back on the Daily Politics on Tuesday at midday.
:13:11. > :13:15.Two live. We'll be back on the Daily be back here next week with the Work
:13:16. > :13:19.and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday
:13:20. > :13:37.Politics.