:00:38. > :00:43.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:44. > :00:47.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:48. > :00:54.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:55. > :00:57.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live
:00:58. > :01:01.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:02. > :01:04.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:05. > :01:14.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:15. > :01:16.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:17. > :01:21.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:22. > :01:33.The unusual alliances are bding success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:34. > :01:35.The unusual alliances are being formed in
:01:36. > :01:43.Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?
:01:44. > :01:46.And with me our panel of top political journalists,
:01:47. > :01:49.who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee
:01:50. > :01:51.and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme
:01:52. > :01:56.This morning's political news is dominated
:01:57. > :01:59.by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and
:02:00. > :02:03.The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior
:02:04. > :02:05.Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling
:02:06. > :02:12.The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of
:02:13. > :02:16.investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham
:02:17. > :02:19.where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken
:02:20. > :02:26.Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office
:02:27. > :02:29.was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.
:02:30. > :02:33.He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.
:02:34. > :02:34.In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,
:02:35. > :02:37."why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people
:02:38. > :02:44.Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the
:02:45. > :02:51.An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.
:02:52. > :02:54.Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's
:02:55. > :02:59.Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning,
:03:00. > :03:05.this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.
:03:06. > :03:07.There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,
:03:08. > :03:10.which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.
:03:11. > :03:12.There will be discipline in the Government.
:03:13. > :03:18.The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.
:03:19. > :03:24.The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s
:03:25. > :03:43.put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.
:03:44. > :03:53.Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she
:03:54. > :04:00.has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael
:04:01. > :04:08.Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during
:04:09. > :04:13.13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an
:04:14. > :04:23.act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website
:04:24. > :04:26.and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of
:04:27. > :04:32.conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a
:04:33. > :04:38.leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a
:04:39. > :04:43.vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In
:04:44. > :04:49.the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.
:04:50. > :04:54.She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is
:04:55. > :04:59.interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse
:05:00. > :05:05.differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is
:05:06. > :05:10.tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.
:05:11. > :05:16.Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the
:05:17. > :05:22.politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is
:05:23. > :05:26.deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but
:05:27. > :05:31.replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in
:05:32. > :05:36.ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that
:05:37. > :05:39.ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the
:05:40. > :05:45.Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with
:05:46. > :05:50.Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick
:05:51. > :05:56.Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and
:05:57. > :06:04.criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the
:06:05. > :06:13.Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is
:06:14. > :06:18.fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What
:06:19. > :06:25.separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The
:06:26. > :06:29.view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic
:06:30. > :06:35.extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is
:06:36. > :06:40.criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour
:06:41. > :06:44.government introduced to do with the previous Labour government
:06:45. > :06:50.introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people
:06:51. > :06:56.and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous
:06:57. > :06:57.home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in
:06:58. > :07:03.the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has
:07:04. > :07:09.used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the
:07:10. > :07:13.swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed
:07:14. > :07:20.those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove
:07:21. > :07:24.would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech
:07:25. > :07:25.the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2011
:07:26. > :07:29.Munich Security conference in 2 11 when the Prime Minister talked about
:07:30. > :07:46.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:47. > :07:51.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:52. > :07:54.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:55. > :08:04.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:05. > :08:09.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:10. > :08:12.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:13. > :08:16.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:17. > :08:22.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:23. > :08:26.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:27. > :08:30.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:31. > :08:35.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:36. > :08:40.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:41. > :08:44.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:45. > :08:48.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:49. > :08:53.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:54. > :09:03.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:04. > :09:07.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:08. > :09:12.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:13. > :09:16.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:17. > :09:21.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:22. > :09:25.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:26. > :09:32.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:33. > :09:37.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:38. > :09:42.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:43. > :09:49.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:50. > :09:55.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling
:09:56. > :09:57.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:09:58. > :10:02.equality between boys and girls, and equality between boys and girls and
:10:03. > :10:05.there is an unofficial policy of gender segregation, that is
:10:06. > :10:11.unacceptable. We should not be tarring communities with the same
:10:12. > :10:17.brush in terms of radicalisation. We do want to see a successful,
:10:18. > :10:23.multicultural education. Two years ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as
:10:24. > :10:30.outstanding. Now it looks like tomorrow it is going into special
:10:31. > :10:35.measures. What is it up to? I do think there is an issue for Ofsted
:10:36. > :10:39.that you can go from outstanding to inadequate so quickly. That is why
:10:40. > :10:44.we are asking for a new criteria to be introduced to look at a broad and
:10:45. > :10:50.balanced curriculum. We have healthy sex and relationship education.
:10:51. > :10:53.There is a real issue this morning as the BBC has been reporting on the
:10:54. > :10:57.night for the Department of Education. We are hearing that some
:10:58. > :11:01.of those involved in the schools were not allowed to open a free
:11:02. > :11:04.school on security grounds. They were allowed to allow one of the
:11:05. > :11:09.schools to be taken over as an academy. We have a lack of oversight
:11:10. > :11:13.and accountability in schools within Birmingham. What the Labour Party
:11:14. > :11:22.wants is a local director of school standards to make sure we challenge
:11:23. > :11:29.underperformance and make sure we get in confronting Islamic extremism
:11:30. > :11:34.when it was in power? I was speaking to Hazel blears and she was very
:11:35. > :11:43.clear about the prevent programme which they rolled out when in
:11:44. > :11:51.office. A very atomised and fragmented school system where every
:11:52. > :11:55.school is looked at from behind a desk in Whitehall and he put that
:11:56. > :12:04.together and you do have an increased risk of chances of
:12:05. > :12:12.radicalisation. You have attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. Was it
:12:13. > :12:21.the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. We are dealing
:12:22. > :12:26.with a government which has been in since 2010. The Government needs to
:12:27. > :12:34.hold the executive to account. We note the Department Michael Gove was
:12:35. > :12:38.warned by a senior and respected head teacher about fears over
:12:39. > :12:43.radicalism. What did he know and what did he act upon? We are hearing
:12:44. > :12:48.more reports of conversations about fears, about radicalisation, taking
:12:49. > :12:55.over some of the governing bodies of schools. We need to know what
:12:56. > :12:58.ministers did. Let me continue. You mention the capital to prevent
:12:59. > :13:08.strategy. Was it gross negligence for Labour to regularly consult a
:13:09. > :13:13.man who once headed a group dedicated to making Britain an
:13:14. > :13:19.Islamic state and wrote a book about schools full of Taliban style
:13:20. > :13:24.decrees. I think the events in Birmingham are enormously
:13:25. > :13:28.significant. About the nature of multiculturalism, the nature of
:13:29. > :13:32.education, the role of civic education, the role of faith
:13:33. > :13:37.schools. I will say to you this morning that Birmingham City
:13:38. > :13:45.Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, the Department for Education were
:13:46. > :13:50.all involved in this conversation. In 2010, ministers were warned about
:13:51. > :13:56.potential radicalisation of schools and they fell to act. We need to
:13:57. > :14:01.know why, for years on, they allowed this situation to exacerbate. When
:14:02. > :14:04.you look at the record of labour and this government 's record, there are
:14:05. > :14:09.plenty of examples where both of you fail to act. Would it not be better
:14:10. > :14:16.to drop the party politics and get together to confront this problem
:14:17. > :14:21.for the sake of the children? There are a number of reports going on in
:14:22. > :14:25.Birmingham. Some are led by the city council, some by the Department for
:14:26. > :14:29.Education. Labour MPs this morning have come forward with the Bishop of
:14:30. > :14:35.Birmingham talking about faith in schools. If you have a minister
:14:36. > :14:39.failing to do their job, if you have a minister being given warnings in
:14:40. > :14:42.2010 and failing to act on them for four years, the opposition has a
:14:43. > :14:48.role to hold the executive to account. This is about the safety
:14:49. > :14:51.and standards of teaching for pupils in Birmingham schools. It is about a
:14:52. > :14:57.great education for these young people so they can succeed in a
:14:58. > :15:03.modern, multicultural Britain. Do you agree with your Shadow Cabinet
:15:04. > :15:10.colleague, Rachel Reeves, that Labour' as core voters are
:15:11. > :15:14.abandoning the party? She was building on what Ed said the day
:15:15. > :15:19.after the elections in Berwick. We have to make sure those communities
:15:20. > :15:22.who we historically represent regard Labour as having a successful
:15:23. > :15:27.message for them. I am passionate about making sure we have great
:15:28. > :15:33.vocational and technical education, the great academic education in our
:15:34. > :15:39.schools. If we have more work to do to get people to the polling
:15:40. > :15:48.booths, we must do that. We must with listen to what she says.
:15:49. > :15:51.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping the former PM of Luxembourg
:15:52. > :15:54.- named by one newspaper as 'the most dangerous man in Europe'
:15:55. > :15:57.because of his federalist views - from becoming the next president
:15:58. > :16:04.Mr Cameron has reportedly described Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from
:16:05. > :16:07.the 80s who cannot solve the problems of the next five years .
:16:08. > :16:10.But with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr
:16:11. > :16:13.Juncker, it's not a dead cert that Mr Cameron can stop his appointment.
:16:14. > :16:19.This is what he had to say at the G7 summit earlier this week:
:16:20. > :16:25.It is important that we have people running the institutions of Europe
:16:26. > :16:29.who understand the need for change and reform. I would argue that view
:16:30. > :16:34.is widely shared amongst other heads of government and heads of state in
:16:35. > :16:39.the European Union. I am clear what I want to achieve for Britain's
:16:40. > :16:43.future, to secure Britain's placed in a reformed European Union and I
:16:44. > :16:47.have a strategy for delivering that, a strategy for dealing with an
:16:48. > :16:48.issue which I think if we walk away from it would see Britain drift
:16:49. > :16:50.towards the exits. We've been joined from Berlin
:16:51. > :16:53.by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is a senior figure in the EPP - that's
:16:54. > :16:57.the party backing Mr Juncker. He's also Chairman of the Union
:16:58. > :17:02.of European Federalists. And in our Newcastle newsroom is
:17:03. > :17:05.the former Conservative MEP Martin Callanan who until last month led
:17:06. > :17:08.the European Conservatives and Reformists group in Brussels.
:17:09. > :17:24.Welcome to you both. The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary,
:17:25. > :17:26.they don't want Mr Junker, the new Italian Prime Minister doesn't look
:17:27. > :17:33.keen either, should he bow out gracefully? First of all, he wants
:17:34. > :17:38.to have Mr Junker but he wants to have his conditions. Will he become
:17:39. > :17:46.president of the European Council, a high representative? It is a
:17:47. > :17:53.discussion to be had in the next three or four weeks until the
:17:54. > :17:55.European Parliament can elect the president of the European Council
:17:56. > :18:02.after the proposal of the European Council, which has to be done after
:18:03. > :18:07.consultation with the Parliament in the light of the European elections
:18:08. > :18:13.and by a majority vote. If not Mr Junker, then who? There are many
:18:14. > :18:19.available candidates, I am not going to mention them in front of someone
:18:20. > :18:24.so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us one name that you would prefer? The
:18:25. > :18:29.prime Minister of Sweden, Christine Lagarde, the minister from
:18:30. > :18:38.Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is
:18:39. > :18:45.the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond
:18:46. > :18:49.to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical
:18:50. > :18:53.reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security
:18:54. > :18:57.services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This
:18:58. > :19:00.is not who we want leading the European Commission. Elmar Brok,
:19:01. > :19:03.European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent
:19:04. > :19:07.a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status
:19:08. > :19:14.quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?
:19:15. > :19:24.First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks
:19:25. > :19:31.against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man
:19:32. > :19:36.who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro
:19:37. > :19:40.group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the
:19:41. > :19:43.financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible
:19:44. > :19:48.financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who
:19:49. > :19:53.works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in
:19:54. > :19:55.Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government. But
:19:56. > :19:59.European Union, less government But we need Europe more and he is not a
:20:00. > :20:05.man from the 80s. He is a man of this century and in this century he
:20:06. > :20:07.made his own policy. He is the winner of the European elections, he
:20:08. > :20:13.has a majority will stop Mrs LANguard is not running because she
:20:14. > :20:20.knows she will not get the majority in the European Parliament. --
:20:21. > :20:26.Christine Lagarde is not running. It is the Council of minister is that
:20:27. > :20:30.decides. No, the European Parliament has the final word. The European
:20:31. > :20:33.Council can make a proposal by majority in the light of the
:20:34. > :20:38.European elections after consultation with the European
:20:39. > :20:42.Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the
:20:43. > :20:48.European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament.
:20:49. > :20:51.Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the
:20:52. > :20:54.candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that
:20:55. > :21:00.somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for
:21:01. > :21:04.Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP
:21:05. > :21:07.party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the
:21:08. > :21:12.electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many
:21:13. > :21:16.people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their
:21:17. > :21:21.vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the
:21:22. > :21:26.commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections
:21:27. > :21:30.were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe.
:21:31. > :21:33.To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody
:21:34. > :21:43.nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a
:21:44. > :21:53.nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically.
:21:54. > :22:00.Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi
:22:01. > :22:06.links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it
:22:07. > :22:11.is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are
:22:12. > :22:15.not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection
:22:16. > :22:21.of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory
:22:22. > :22:25.Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to
:22:26. > :22:31.Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it
:22:32. > :22:34.melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the
:22:35. > :22:39.relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who
:22:40. > :22:44.vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they
:22:45. > :22:51.want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is
:22:52. > :22:54.not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem
:22:55. > :22:57.with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud
:22:58. > :23:01.to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where
:23:02. > :23:05.most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants
:23:06. > :23:13.his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the
:23:14. > :23:16.letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared
:23:17. > :23:25.to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that
:23:26. > :23:28.the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an
:23:29. > :23:31.all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to
:23:32. > :23:39.have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members
:23:40. > :23:44.of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans.
:23:45. > :23:48.These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France,
:23:49. > :23:52.a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be
:23:53. > 3:39:16clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do