:00:37. > :00:43.Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio.
:00:44. > :00:48.The advance of the Islamist army on Baghdad has been slowed.
:00:49. > :00:50.The Iraqi army claims the fightback has begun.
:00:51. > :00:52.But the country now faces a de facto partition.
:00:53. > :00:55.What should Britain, Europe, or the US be doing - if anything?
:00:56. > :00:58.It's been a big week in the Scottish referendum.
:00:59. > :01:02.But has the tone of the debate become too downright nasty?
:01:03. > :01:10.Both sides join us to go head to head.
:01:11. > :01:13.I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. What is the significance of
:01:14. > :01:15.that? And as World Cup sticker fever grips
:01:16. > :01:19.even Westminster, we'll be asking Here in the East,
:01:20. > :01:21.fears that the rights of mentally ill patients, entitled
:01:22. > :01:23.to care, are being breached. And a crunch vote for Nick Clegg
:01:24. > :01:31.as Lib Dems meet in Cambridge to In London, why the minority vote one
:01:32. > :01:32.recent elections Labour, but recent support amongst people is bigger
:01:33. > :01:43.than assumed. The Sunni Islamist army known
:01:44. > :01:46.as ISIS is now in control of huge swathes of northern
:01:47. > :01:49.and western Iraq, including Until the weekend they looked
:01:50. > :01:52.like advancing relentlessly on Baghdad but that offensive has
:01:53. > :01:54.now been slowed or even halted The Iraqi army
:01:55. > :01:59.and its Shia milita allies vow that Baghdad will not be taken and that
:02:00. > :02:06.a counter-attack will soon begin. Iraq's Shia Prime Minister Nouri
:02:07. > :02:08.al-Maliki has to do something to reverse the humiliation
:02:09. > :02:10.of recent days, which saw his US-trained and equipped Iraqi
:02:11. > :02:16.army, which outnumbered the Islamists 15 to 1 melt away or
:02:17. > :02:20.surrender when confronted by ISIS. The conflict has already created a
:02:21. > :02:22.humanitarian crisis, with hundreds The Kurds have used the conflict to
:02:23. > :02:32.consolidate their hold on their autonomous area in the north, parts
:02:33. > :02:36.of the west and the north are in the grip of ISIS control and the Shias
:02:37. > :02:39.are hunkering down in the east. All of which makes a three-way
:02:40. > :02:42.partition a real possibility with The US is moving another
:02:43. > :02:46.of its massive aircraft carrier battlefleets to the Gulf,
:02:47. > :02:49.though the White House shows no While Iran says it's ready to help
:02:50. > :02:53.its Shia allies and there are unconfoirmed reports
:02:54. > :02:56.that its revolutionary guard has Well, I'm joined now by Newsnight's
:02:57. > :03:14.diplomatic editor Mark Urban. Let's start with some basics. Who
:03:15. > :03:21.are ISIS and why are they controlling big chunks of Iraq? ISIS
:03:22. > :03:25.is an extremist militant jihad organisation and they have a pure
:03:26. > :03:29.Islamic concept based on 14th century history and jurisprudence.
:03:30. > :03:36.What they want to do is correct -- create this caliphate that do not
:03:37. > :03:39.recognise colonial boundaries so it involves Syria and Iraq, and they
:03:40. > :03:42.could go down to Lebanon and Palestine, that is all fair game as
:03:43. > :03:48.far as they are concerned. And they have this strict interpretation of
:03:49. > :03:53.Islam. The more interesting question is why have semi-Sunni Muslims,
:03:54. > :03:58.along with them, these are precisely the sort of people who in 2006,
:03:59. > :04:02.2007, tribal leaders in the west of the country rose up against. It was
:04:03. > :04:07.called the Awakening and the Americans in power did and
:04:08. > :04:12.bankrolled it. These people turned against them and admired them in
:04:13. > :04:15.large numbers, so why do they have so many Sunni Muslims on their
:04:16. > :04:18.side? We hear about people going back to Mosul. I think the answer is
:04:19. > :04:22.a perception back to Mosul. I think the answer
:04:23. > :04:25.that the current government is ruling in sectarian interests, Shia
:04:26. > :04:28.Muslim interest, and the Sunni Muslims want self-determination and
:04:29. > :04:32.this is their best bet. Muslims want self-determination and
:04:33. > :04:35.this is their Let me put up this map to find out where we are going. We
:04:36. > :04:40.can see Mosul in the north, they took that, and then they started,
:04:41. > :04:49.South, reports that the crit was involved -- to grit -- to grit. What
:04:50. > :04:53.is the situation on the ground now? We are in what you might call a
:04:54. > :05:01.consolidation or strategic pause as American called it in 2003. ISIS are
:05:02. > :05:04.trying to consolidate their power in Mosul, and now they have this major
:05:05. > :05:08.city and they are trying to show they can run the city and get the
:05:09. > :05:12.power going, etc. Their southernmost forces, that is a gorilla army, guys
:05:13. > :05:18.in pick-up trucks. They cannot deal with serious opposition. They would
:05:19. > :05:21.like to get the tanks and other things into action but that could
:05:22. > :05:26.take weeks for them to be able to do it. The government side is that they
:05:27. > :05:30.have counter-attacked, but it will take a little while before these
:05:31. > :05:36.newly raised militia and other task forces, call them what you will can
:05:37. > :05:42.effectively counter-attacked. But that is what will happen in the next
:05:43. > :05:44.week or two. We will see increasingly large and serious
:05:45. > :05:53.government counter-attacked trying to retake those places, and I fear a
:05:54. > :06:00.really difficult, bloody Syrian style street by street battle for
:06:01. > :06:06.some of these urban centres. I would like to have a look at this map
:06:07. > :06:08.because the Kurds, as I mentioned, they are consolidating their
:06:09. > :06:14.position in the autonomous region in the north. The Islamist are taking
:06:15. > :06:20.over huge chunks of the Sunni Muslim West. And of course the Shia Muslim
:06:21. > :06:24.are still dominant in control of Baghdad and in parts of the south
:06:25. > :06:33.and east. Back to me looks like the beginnings of the partition of Iraq.
:06:34. > :06:36.-- back to me. Well, it is, but we have to caveat it in a few ways
:06:37. > :06:42.Firstly, there are millions of people in Iraq, so-called sushi
:06:43. > :06:46.combined families, who do not fit easily into the pattern. Do we see
:06:47. > :06:52.millions of people becoming refugees under this scheme? There would be a
:06:53. > :06:56.lot of human tragedies if people really did try to enforce this type
:06:57. > :07:03.partition. Secondly, there are Sunni Muslim communities in the south of
:07:04. > :07:08.Baghdad, those places, once again, a lot of misery and fighting will
:07:09. > :07:20.occur if people try to enforce a de facto partition. There are still an
:07:21. > :07:26.awakening of forces. They are on the side of the government. We heard
:07:27. > :07:30.about one group in Samarra of Sunni Muslims fighting on the same side.
:07:31. > :07:33.It's a complex picture. They factor, it does look like a partition, and
:07:34. > :07:40.if it goes further in that direction it will. And partition will always
:07:41. > :07:43.be messy because people end up on the wrong side of the lies.
:07:44. > :07:48.Finally, the big thing on that map, Iran, a huge place, a huge border
:07:49. > :07:55.with Shia Muslim Iraq. Iran now becomes a key factor. It is becoming
:07:56. > :07:58.a proxy war for Iran. Yes, when I was in Baghdad a few months ago I
:07:59. > :08:02.did actually see Iranians revolutionary guards in uniform
:08:03. > :08:08.They were protecting a senior Iranians official, so some numbers
:08:09. > :08:13.have been never some time and they are also said to protect the
:08:14. > :08:17.political leaders and -- in his compound. They are there. We think
:08:18. > :08:21.more of them are trying to organise the defence of Baghdad to galvanise
:08:22. > :08:26.the Iraqi army, and they will not allow the Iraqi government to fall.
:08:27. > :08:31.Mark, thank you for marking archive this morning. -- marking our card.
:08:32. > :08:33.Tony Blair took Britain into the Iraq conflict in 2003.
:08:34. > :08:36.He's now, among other things, envoy to the Middle East representing
:08:37. > :08:39.That's the UN, the EU, the US and Russia.
:08:40. > :08:42.This morning he entered the debate about what should be
:08:43. > :08:52.My point is simple. If you left Saddam in place in 2003, when 2 11
:08:53. > :08:58.happened and you have the Arab revolutions going through Tunisia,
:08:59. > :09:03.Libya, Yemen, Bahrain and Egypt and Syria, you would still have had a
:09:04. > :09:06.major problem in Iraq. You can see what happens when you leave the
:09:07. > :09:10.dictator in place, as has happened with Bashar al-Assad. The problem
:09:11. > :09:15.doesn't go away. What I'm trying to say is, we can rerun the debates
:09:16. > :09:19.about 2003, and there are perfectly legitimate points on either side,
:09:20. > :09:22.but where we are in 2014, we have do understand that this is a regional
:09:23. > :09:26.problem, but a problem that will affect us.
:09:27. > :09:28.And I'm joined by the former Foreign Office minister Mark Malloch-Brown,
:09:29. > :09:32.Here in London are James Rubin, he was chief spokesman
:09:33. > :09:35.for the State Department under Bill Clinton, and Bayan Rahman,
:09:36. > :09:47.she represents the Kurdistan Regional government in the UK.
:09:48. > :09:52.Intervened in Iraq, it's a shambles, we don't intervene in Syria, it s a
:09:53. > :09:58.shambles. What lessons should we draw? That is a well framed
:09:59. > :10:01.question, because that is the problem. Tony Blair is half right.
:10:02. > :10:06.Iraq, like Syria, would probably have been a problem even without an
:10:07. > :10:11.intervention. But one wishes someone would tell him to stay quiet during
:10:12. > :10:15.moments like this, because it does drive a great surge of people in the
:10:16. > :10:18.other direction. The fact is, what has been missing in western politics
:10:19. > :10:24.towards the Middle East throughout both episodes, Syria and Iraq, is a
:10:25. > :10:29.drive to build an inclusive, democratic centre which is secular
:10:30. > :10:33.and nonsectarian. That has been missing amongst the threats of
:10:34. > :10:38.invasion Manon invasion, we have just constantly neglected the
:10:39. > :10:43.diplomatic nation-building dimensional this. I want to come
:10:44. > :10:47.onto what is happening on the ground. I want to begin with what
:10:48. > :10:50.the Western response by me, and by that we mean the United States,
:10:51. > :10:54.because of it doesn't do anything, nobody will do anything. All of the
:10:55. > :10:58.signals I see coming out of the White is that Barack Obama has no
:10:59. > :11:02.appetite for intervention -- out of the White House. I don't think he
:11:03. > :11:09.does have an appetite. He would be very unlikely to do anything very
:11:10. > :11:14.large. He might feel pressured to act because of the fact that this
:11:15. > :11:18.particular group, this Al-Qaeda inspired group, fits into the
:11:19. > :11:22.strategy he has pursued in Yemen and Afghanistan and Pakistan, to use
:11:23. > :11:33.drone strikes against individual terrorists. So it is possible that
:11:34. > :11:37.the threat of ISIS in the region and the West in general might inspire
:11:38. > :11:43.him to act, but the idea he will do enough, militarily, to transform
:11:44. > :11:49.Iraq from its current state of civil War into something along the lines
:11:50. > :11:54.that Mark was talking about, nation-building diplomacy, a big
:11:55. > :11:59.operation, I don't see President Obama sees his historic mission as
:12:00. > :12:03.having got the United States as out of it. Leave it to the Pacific,
:12:04. > :12:09.perhaps. What would the Kurds like the West to do? First of all, in
:12:10. > :12:14.Kurdistan we face a huge humanitarian crisis. We already have
:12:15. > :12:16.had bought a quarter of a million Syrian refugees and we were
:12:17. > :12:22.struggling to cope with that. And now we have at least double that
:12:23. > :12:25.number of refugees coming from Mosul. First and foremost, we are
:12:26. > :12:30.calling on the international community to help us with that. So
:12:31. > :12:33.we need humanitarian aid? Let's assume we do that in some way, maybe
:12:34. > :12:39.not enough, but what else if anything? I think it is an incumbent
:12:40. > :12:44.on the west and other powers to assist Iraq to get rid of ISIS. I
:12:45. > :12:51.think the Sunni Arab community, some of whom have joined ISIS and may be
:12:52. > :12:58.supported the uprising, have justified complaints against the
:12:59. > :13:01.federal government. But we need the terrorists out of Iraq. That is
:13:02. > :13:05.first and foremost. And what the West can do is not necessarily
:13:06. > :13:08.intervene with boots on the ground, but provide technical assistance,
:13:09. > :13:14.provide intelligence and help the Iraqi army and air force to be more
:13:15. > :13:22.targeted. Can you defend yourselves? In Kurdistan, we can in terms of the
:13:23. > :13:25.disciplined troops. In this situation, I hope they won't be
:13:26. > :13:30.abandoning their post, that is for sure. It is a national cause fires.
:13:31. > :13:36.But we are not armed in the way that the Iraqi army is -- cause for us.
:13:37. > :13:40.We are not armed in the way that ISIS seems to be now they have
:13:41. > :13:43.seized some of the American kit We are not asking for weapons, but we
:13:44. > :13:48.ask for assistance for all of Iraq to deal with the situation. Mark,
:13:49. > :13:53.this is not just an Iraqi problem. This is a regional conflict, and
:13:54. > :13:57.from the Levant on the shores of the Mediterranean, all the way through
:13:58. > :14:04.to the Gulf, the region is gripped with what is essentially a Sunni and
:14:05. > :14:07.Shia Muslim sectarian war. Yes, with the caveats that Mark bourbon made
:14:08. > :14:11.earlier, it's not quite that straightforward, but the basic
:14:12. > :14:16.divide is exactly that -- Mark Urban. People have been looking for
:14:17. > :14:19.this to begin in Lebanon or Jordan and have been taken by surprise
:14:20. > :14:26.although with hindsight I'm not sure why, that it has begun in Iraq
:14:27. > :14:28.instead. At its most extreme, it risks redrawing the 20th century
:14:29. > :14:33.boundaries of the region in a way which would be highly unstable
:14:34. > :14:38.because it would pit a Shia Muslim bloc against the Sunni Muslim bloc
:14:39. > :14:43.and would undo all of the sort of social and economic advance of the
:14:44. > :14:48.last century, so the stakes are suddenly very, very high indeed Are
:14:49. > :14:54.we seeing the redrawing? The lines were drawn secretly, not far from
:14:55. > :14:58.here, about a mile away, and may have survived through thick and
:14:59. > :15:03.thin. They now look pretty fragile. The map is being redrawn. I think it
:15:04. > :15:10.is true that there is a key factor partition going on -- des facto
:15:11. > :15:17.Woodrow Wilson probably gave a bit of a hand to the promotion of the
:15:18. > :15:20.idea of self-determination, and in a way, there is a self determination
:15:21. > :15:24.going on, particularly in the Kurdish region, and perhaps they may
:15:25. > :15:30.end up the big winners in all of this, because they have proceeded
:15:31. > :15:32.with a relatively moderate, reconcilable government. The key
:15:33. > :15:43.thing that the Kurdish region has done. They used to fight the two
:15:44. > :15:48.groups, and now they fight together. What the Sunni Muslims have not done
:15:49. > :15:56.is figure out how to let politics let the side things instead of guns.
:15:57. > :16:03.We need to look clearly and in Syria and Iraq, if there is a Sunni
:16:04. > :16:08.extremist with ISIS that carves out a place for itself, it will be the
:16:09. > :16:13.great irony of the modern era. President Bush said he wanted to go
:16:14. > :16:21.into Iraq to fight terrorism. There was no terrorist. There are now If
:16:22. > :16:27.in Iraq and Syria together thereat a thousand strong Al-Qaeda capability
:16:28. > :16:29.that threatens the region, the West, the world, we are all going to
:16:30. > :16:57.have to do something about it. The danger is that power will
:16:58. > :17:02.spread. This could grow in power. You would not want it on your
:17:03. > :17:05.southern border. Absolutely, we would not. The point we are all
:17:06. > :17:11.making indirectly is that things have changed in Iraq and will never
:17:12. > :17:14.be the same again. Whether Iraq completely disintegrates into three
:17:15. > :17:15.countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but a
:17:16. > :17:19.countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but loose
:17:20. > :17:25.federation, either way, Iraq has changed. It will not go back to what
:17:26. > :17:29.it was. I hope it will change for the better. I think we're at the
:17:30. > :17:37.make or break point for Iraq. Either the political readers -- the
:17:38. > :17:41.political leaders of a right wake up and smell the coffee and put aside
:17:42. > :17:46.their differences or there will be problems. This provides that
:17:47. > :17:52.opportunity, in a very nasty way. If we take it? Yes, and if not, I think
:17:53. > :18:01.this is the end of a rack as we know it. If anything resembling a
:18:02. > :18:06.caliphate emerges, that is very destabilising for the region itself.
:18:07. > :18:11.More so I would suggest than even the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in
:18:12. > :18:18.Afghanistan. At some stage, you have to assume that they will be coming
:18:19. > :18:27.for us. That is correct. This is extremely dangerous. The only way
:18:28. > :18:32.forward is for these political groups to talk to each other and
:18:33. > :18:36.find a compromise that allows the rates of cinemas and minorities in
:18:37. > :18:39.Iraq to be protected within or the rates of cinemas and minorities in
:18:40. > :18:43.Iraq to be protected with an autonomous federal-state. Any
:18:44. > :18:46.support for the government must be premised on that. There is no
:18:47. > :19:03.military solution for this which is in during -- there is no military
:19:04. > :19:08.solution for this. There must be serious political negotiation, not
:19:09. > :19:12.with ISIS, but with Sunni Muslim moderates, to form a more
:19:13. > :19:17.representative government. This is the last chance for Iraq. I think we
:19:18. > :19:20.are all saying that that is going to need to be some major western
:19:21. > :19:26.leadership to make some big decisions here for the future of the
:19:27. > :19:30.region. I am concerned that after Afghanistan and Iraq, my country is
:19:31. > :19:35.quite world-weary, quite world-weary. It does not seem to be
:19:36. > :19:40.giving leadership. Certainly we are not seeing that in Europe. I am
:19:41. > :19:44.deeply concerned that we are not going to take the leadership role
:19:45. > :19:50.that needs to be taken. These are big issues. When Britain and France
:19:51. > :19:53.carved up the Middle East, they were world powers, operating as global
:19:54. > :19:58.powers, and without that global leadership by somebody, this is just
:19:59. > :20:00.going to get worse and worse. I think we will leave it there, thank
:20:01. > :20:05.you very much. The danger is that power will
:20:06. > :20:10.spread. This could grow in power. It is just under 100 days until the
:20:11. > :20:13.referendum on Scottish independence. So, for once,
:20:14. > :20:15.it'll be a long hot-summer But the campaign isn't
:20:16. > :20:20.just getting heated. In places it's also
:20:21. > :20:22.down-right nasty. When Scotland's best-selling author
:20:23. > :20:24.announced she was giving the unionist cause a million pounds
:20:25. > :20:26.this week, she received Independence supporters online,
:20:27. > :20:34.so-called cybernats, called JK Rowling a traitor
:20:35. > :20:37.and much worse, using a variety of For its part, the Better Together
:20:38. > :20:41.campaign has been accused Even Gordon Brown seems to think so,
:20:42. > :20:44.and this week he criticised Conservative ministers
:20:45. > :20:46.for relying on "threats With the Edinburgh Festival
:20:47. > :20:51.approaching, reports suggest even comedians are now reluctant to
:20:52. > :20:54.engage in the subject because I'm joined by Blair Jenkins from
:20:55. > :21:00.Yes Scotland and Jackie Baillie They're both in our Glasgow studio,
:21:01. > :21:20.and they're going head to head. Blair Jenkins, let me come to you
:21:21. > :21:24.first. Why have you and the Better Together campaign and Alex Salmond
:21:25. > :21:28.not done more to slap down the cyber nationalists who are poisoning the
:21:29. > :21:34.debate? Good morning. I think both sides tried to stop the tiny number
:21:35. > :21:38.of people on both sides who are incapable of controlling
:21:39. > :21:43.themselves. We should not get this out of proportion. We are having a
:21:44. > :21:46.fantastic, decent and democratic debate. The people who probably
:21:47. > :21:50.total no more than 100 on both sides who post offensive material or not
:21:51. > :21:55.to be allowed to deflect from that fact. Of course there are nasty
:21:56. > :21:59.people on the Better Together side as well, but are you saying there
:22:00. > :22:05.are as many of those as the cyber nationalists? I have not done the
:22:06. > :22:11.Kent. Lots of people are certainly posting nasty in defensive things to
:22:12. > :22:15.people in the yes campaigners well. I imagine that people do what I do,
:22:16. > :22:22.and block them. You stop them from sending anything further. There is a
:22:23. > :22:26.democratic and in gauging progress going on throughout Scotland. It is
:22:27. > :22:29.characterised by good humour and good debate. We should not get out
:22:30. > :22:36.of proportion and the activities of the number of people. I want to get
:22:37. > :22:39.to Jackie Baillie. The debate is actually pretty good-humoured and
:22:40. > :22:43.you should be doing more about the nasties on your side as well? I
:22:44. > :22:48.think we have reached a new low this week. Despite many people engaging
:22:49. > :22:54.in the politics of the decision and the debate about that, whether we
:22:55. > :22:58.want to retain the best of both worlds are separate from the United
:22:59. > :23:05.Kingdom, what we have seen is the most abusive and vitriolic attack,
:23:06. > :23:10.particularly on women, JK Rowling and a Labour supporter who dared to
:23:11. > :23:15.support the no campaign. When you look at the number of people on
:23:16. > :23:20.social media, there are more from the yes campaign than the no site.
:23:21. > :23:28.We should all be condemning attacks, from whatever quarter they come
:23:29. > :23:32.This seemed to be connected to the office of the First Minister. What
:23:33. > :23:38.is the evidence for that? There was an e-mail from one of the... I
:23:39. > :23:47.understand about that, but it did not use vile words. It did not, but
:23:48. > :23:51.it repeated the same mistake as on the website. We should be clear that
:23:52. > :23:56.we need to condemn these attacks, but it is not just the water works,
:23:57. > :24:01.it is taking action. There was an IpsosMORI poll this week which was
:24:02. > :24:06.varying testing. It showed the population as a whole, farmer people
:24:07. > :24:11.think that Yes Scotland is running an effective campaign as against
:24:12. > :24:19.Better Together. It is a undecided voters think this by a majority of
:24:20. > :24:23.four 21. Some people are worried about of the campaign. JK Rowling,
:24:24. > :24:29.Scotland's most successful author of all time. She gives ?1 million to
:24:30. > :24:33.the Better Together campaign. She then faces some of the most
:24:34. > :24:41.incredible abuse. I know what it is like because I have had some myself.
:24:42. > :24:46.Traitor, Quisling. I cannot use some of the words, it is Sunday morning.
:24:47. > :24:51.Why does Scottish Nationalists culture have such a revolting
:24:52. > :24:54.fringe? JK Rowling is entitled to our views and it is unacceptable if
:24:55. > :24:59.people say offensive things about her or anyone else who voices and
:25:00. > :25:03.opinion in this debate. Who are obese people? When you look at the
:25:04. > :25:07.accounts of some of the people who were posting these things about JK
:25:08. > :25:11.Rowling, they were using the same sort of language about film stars
:25:12. > :25:18.and football stars. This was just part of their language on Twitter.
:25:19. > :25:26.How often has Alex Salmond condemned the cyber nationalists? Very often.
:25:27. > :25:29.Everyone in the campaign hands. By common consent, Yes Scotland is
:25:30. > :25:35.running a thoroughly positive campaign, much more positive than
:25:36. > :25:40.Better Together. Jackie Baillie it hardly helps matters when Alistair
:25:41. > :25:43.Darling, who runs your campaign compares Alex Salmond to Kim Jong Il
:25:44. > :25:49.and North Korea. That hardly elevates the debate? I think we need
:25:50. > :25:56.to elevate the debate. There are less than a hundred days to go. It
:25:57. > :26:03.is a massive decision. We need to elevate the debate beyond attacks. I
:26:04. > :26:08.think there is much more that Yes Scotland and the SNP can do. You
:26:09. > :26:14.have made that point. Why are you running a campaign based on fear?
:26:15. > :26:21.The codename of your campaign is even project fear. It is threats.
:26:22. > :26:26.You cannot have the pound, there will be no shipbuilding. You will be
:26:27. > :26:31.flooded by immigrants. Why are you so negative? I am not negative at
:26:32. > :26:35.all and neither is the campaign The campaign has asked questions and I
:26:36. > :26:39.think it is legitimate to ask questions of the people proposing
:26:40. > :26:44.such a fundamental change. People care about the economy, their jobs,
:26:45. > :26:50.their families. What would happen to them if they leave the rest of the
:26:51. > :26:52.United Kingdom. I think it is legitimate to ask questions. I
:26:53. > :27:00.refuse to be asked of scaremongering. People deserve
:27:01. > :27:07.answers. The yes campaign is equally guilty of some of the most
:27:08. > :27:13.outrageous scaremongering. Maybe you are both scaremongering. Blair
:27:14. > :27:18.Jenkins, the First Minister said of the cyber nationalists, that they
:27:19. > :27:23.are just Daft folk, as if they were mischievous little children. It is
:27:24. > :27:29.worse than that. When you look at what they say, they are twisted
:27:30. > :27:33.perhaps even evil minds. I would not disagree with his comments, but they
:27:34. > :27:38.are directed at just a small number of people. The story of this
:27:39. > :27:43.campaign is not the story of what people are saying on Twitter. Around
:27:44. > :27:49.Scotland, lots of people are getting engaged in debate to have been tuned
:27:50. > :27:54.out of the political process. Today, we have 47% support for the yes
:27:55. > :27:58.campaign. The movement in the campaign is towards yes. People know
:27:59. > :28:05.we have a better campaign, a vision for Scotland. The latest poll of
:28:06. > :28:09.polls does not show that. Both sides, you always take the opinion
:28:10. > :28:14.polls that show you in the best light. All politicians do that.
:28:15. > :28:20.Jackie Baillie, your campaign is not just negative, it is patronising.
:28:21. > :28:26.You make dubious claims that Scots would be ?1400 better off by staying
:28:27. > :28:33.in the union, and then you say that the kids use the money to scoff 280
:28:34. > :28:36.hotdogs at the Edinburgh Festival. The fate of the nation is in your
:28:37. > :28:42.hands and that is the best you can do? I think you will find that the
:28:43. > :28:48.campaign is something that we are taking the message to people. Then
:28:49. > :28:56.why are you talking about hotdogs? I do not. The campaign did. We are
:28:57. > :29:00.taking a positive message to people across Scotland about the benefits
:29:01. > :29:04.of the United Kingdom. We believe we are stronger and more secure and
:29:05. > :29:08.more stable, being part of that family of nations that is the United
:29:09. > :29:13.Kingdom. At the same time, we have the strange and power over things
:29:14. > :29:20.like education and transport. I understand that. I am not doing the
:29:21. > :29:24.issues today, I am talking about the tone of the campaign. I have one
:29:25. > :29:31.very important question. Who would you supporting last night in the
:29:32. > :29:35.England-Italy match? I was not watching the game. I would be
:29:36. > :29:39.delighted to see England do well in this tournament. I have Argentina in
:29:40. > :29:43.the office sweepstake. I have to keep some attention on them, but I
:29:44. > :29:49.would be delighted to seeing Clint do well. That is because you think
:29:50. > :29:55.it will help your campaign. It will annoy the Scots. Jackie Baillie I
:29:56. > :30:01.was supporting England. I was also supporting Portugal.
:30:02. > :30:04.Now most of you probably missed last night's football match
:30:05. > :30:07.between England and Italy because you wanted to get an early night and
:30:08. > :30:11.England lost despite a plucky effort, I'm told.
:30:12. > :30:14.But even Westminster is in the grip of World Cup fever
:30:15. > :30:16.and with speculation about the fitness of each political
:30:17. > :30:23.party's team we sent Adam out to tackle some of the big players.
:30:24. > :30:26.Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio.
:30:27. > :30:39.This year everybody seems to have gone a bit mad Belize, football
:30:40. > :30:46.stickers. Let's see who I will get. Oh, the suspense -- a bit mad for
:30:47. > :30:47.these. George Osborne? That is because we leapt on the bandwagon
:30:48. > :30:50.and made Alan political stickers. They're hotter than a Brazilian
:30:51. > :30:52.barbecue. And at Westminster they're
:30:53. > :31:01.turning into collector?s items. Sunday politics political stickers.
:31:02. > :31:06.We have one of you, Norman. Would you like it? Do you want to start
:31:07. > :31:06.collecting, Bob? Would you like a packet?
:31:07. > :31:14.collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I'm afraid
:31:15. > :31:17.collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I've got
:31:18. > :31:25.Michael Gove, next to to Reza, and two of the Prime Minister. -- next
:31:26. > :31:26.to Theresa. I am sure Michael has Theresa in her stick around, and
:31:27. > :31:28.vice versa. These Tory ones are proving very
:31:29. > :31:30.popular since she fell out with him out how
:31:31. > :31:33.to handle extremism in schools. And there's been open speculation
:31:34. > :31:36.about him taking on him in Then there are rumours of a
:31:37. > :31:47.reshuffle of the whole Tory album. Do you think there will be any
:31:48. > :31:56.swapping in the Tory leadership soon? Who knows? David Cameron has
:31:57. > :31:57.also got to replace the EU commissioner, Cathy Ashton, who is
:31:58. > :31:59.standing down. Does he go with the favourite
:32:00. > :32:01.the former health secretary Or the grassroots choice,
:32:02. > :32:04.Martin Callanan, the Tories old Or does he rehabilitate
:32:05. > :32:22.Andrew Mitchell after Plebgate? Do you fancy being European
:32:23. > :32:25.Commissioner? I would rather be spending the money on the world s
:32:26. > :32:27.poor and spending it well. Glad to hear it. Happy collecting.
:32:28. > :32:30.Right, there must be some Labour stickers out there.
:32:31. > :32:38.You don't want to swap Ed Balls any of the others? Can't I keep them
:32:39. > :32:39.all? This is almost the perfect team.
:32:40. > :32:42.There have been grumblings about the fitness of the Shadow
:32:43. > :32:46.And Ed Miliband's got a kicking in Liverpool after posing
:32:47. > :32:57.I'm told grown men are meeting up in pubs for sticker swaps -
:32:58. > :33:02.With Danny Finkelstein - Tory peer and Times columnist,
:33:03. > :33:14.He would be the card I would not want to trade. Do people want to
:33:15. > :33:18.trade him in? I don't think anybody wants to trade him in at the moment.
:33:19. > :33:21.He is the best person to lead the Labour party and will lead us into
:33:22. > :33:25.the next election. There's been a lot about Michael Gove, and he's
:33:26. > :33:27.very combative. That's been a huge strength as an education Secretary,
:33:28. > :33:32.despite the fact it's brought in trouble. I would think the prime
:33:33. > :33:35.minister would tell him not to get himself into peripheral battles at
:33:36. > :33:41.the moment but stick to what has been successful. I haven't got Nick
:33:42. > :33:47.Clegg, but I got me. Controversy amongst collectors of Lib Dems. I
:33:48. > :33:49.need to give away me in return for Nick Clegg. That would be far
:33:50. > :33:52.better. There you are. Some local parties are holding
:33:53. > :33:55.meetings about his leadership, but at one in Cambridge this week
:33:56. > :34:07.they voted to stick with him. You have got a Euro Commissioner.
:34:08. > :34:11.Why don't I swap, I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. Can I do
:34:12. > :34:14.that? What is the significance of that? Very significant. Happy
:34:15. > :34:17.collecting. These beauties are popping up
:34:18. > :34:20.everywhere, but sadly they won't Adam is still doing the samba around
:34:21. > :34:30.Westminster as I speak. I'm joined
:34:31. > :34:32.by three journalists who've been furiously swapping stickers
:34:33. > :34:34.throughout the show, they certainly weren't allowed to stay up to watch
:34:35. > :34:44.the football, it's Nick Watt, We will talk about Labour after the
:34:45. > :34:47.break, and I want to concentrate on the Tories, but the moment, Nick,
:34:48. > :34:56.senior Tories are saying privately that they might win next May. They
:34:57. > :35:01.are beginning to dream the dream. So why are they doing all this
:35:02. > :35:07.jockeying? I think the jockeying for the leadership is about a year old.
:35:08. > :35:13.What stoped it up was when Theresa gave a speech to the conference and
:35:14. > :35:17.people said she was doing it just in case, when things were not looking
:35:18. > :35:21.too good. She is not on manoeuvres. I think it was a policy row that
:35:22. > :35:25.drove the differences with Michael Gove. But Michael Gove is on
:35:26. > :35:28.manoeuvres, and he is trying to protect George Osborne from, he
:35:29. > :35:35.believes, a serious threat from Boris Johnson and possibly Theresa.
:35:36. > :35:38.It is quite self-indulgent when you are a couple of points behind, the
:35:39. > :35:48.economy is going your way, to be involved in this sort of stuff.
:35:49. > :35:54.Extraordinary. It shows the toxic disease that gnaws at the entrails
:35:55. > :35:56.of the Tory party, and Cameron is their great asset. He is more
:35:57. > :36:01.popular than the party, he bridges the gap is, and he has an
:36:02. > :36:05.extraordinary dissemble and some pretending to be this moderate while
:36:06. > :36:08.never the lens -- nevertheless leading the most far right wing
:36:09. > :36:12.government we have had since the war, and that has been a brilliant
:36:13. > :36:14.piece of political Charente and they would be crazy to get rid of it --
:36:15. > :36:17.political Charente. piece of political Charente and they
:36:18. > :36:22.would be crazy to get rid of it -- charades. Does this rumble on? I
:36:23. > :36:27.have an unfashionable view as there aren't half as many leadership plots
:36:28. > :36:30.taking place in Westminster as we assume, and the willingness to read
:36:31. > :36:34.strategic calculation into anything that takes place comes from people
:36:35. > :36:40.watching I Claudius or house of cards. That hasn't been off -- on
:36:41. > :36:47.for years. I needed a reference from your time. I needed something. Maybe
:36:48. > :36:51.brief encounter? It's a stylised view of how politics works, and so
:36:52. > :36:57.much more in life is about randomness and mistakes. Boris
:36:58. > :37:03.Johnson, Theresa May, Michael Gove as George Osborne's man on earth,
:37:04. > :37:06.they are positioning themselves -- Janan wrote an eloquent comment this
:37:07. > :37:12.week about this, but there are certain realities that. Michael Gove
:37:13. > :37:16.had that famous dinner with Rupert Murdoch a few weeks ago in which he
:37:17. > :37:21.said that you must not make Boris Johnson leader of the Conservative
:37:22. > :37:24.party, George Osborne is my man Theresa May set out her credo two
:37:25. > :37:28.years ago and people on her team were saying that she was doing it
:37:29. > :37:32.just in case. People are out there and are thinking of the future, but
:37:33. > :37:36.I do think Janan is right. In the village, in the thick of it mindset,
:37:37. > :37:46.you can get a bit carried away and you can be a bit in the famous. That
:37:47. > :37:52.is before your era. He died. What did he mean by it. You can get a bit
:37:53. > :37:55.carried away by it. I will have words with you during the break
:37:56. > :37:57.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:58. > :38:00.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:01. > :38:09.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be talking about Ed Miliband's
:38:10. > :38:10.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics East.
:38:11. > :38:14.Health workers' fears that patients receiving mental health card are
:38:15. > :38:20.at risk and their legal rights are being breached.
:38:21. > :38:27.When they do an assessment `nd there is no bed available anywherd in the
:38:28. > :38:28.country, that means that thdy are unable to legally fulfil thdir
:38:29. > :38:30.responsibilities. And troubled waters in Cambridge,
:38:31. > :38:33.where the Lib Dems put the leadership
:38:34. > :38:42.of their party to the vote. It was a fantastic debate. We had a
:38:43. > :38:43.huge number of members of the Liberal Democrats who could express
:38:44. > :38:46.their opinions. But first to our guests `
:38:47. > :38:48.Sir Bob Russell, the Lib Dem MP for Colchestdr, and
:38:49. > :38:51.Councillor George Nobbs, thd Labour But I wanted to start this week with
:38:52. > :38:56.the criticisms of Ofsted has raised concerns
:38:57. > :39:02.about the Olive Tree School, after books with fundamentalist
:39:03. > :39:06.views were found in the library The school was also criticised
:39:07. > :39:09.for not doing enough to prolote In terms of the religious ethos of
:39:10. > :39:16.the school, we completely rdject it. We believe it is an Islamophobic
:39:17. > :39:19.report based upon a right wing extremist, Michael
:39:20. > :39:23.Gove, whose ignorance of Islam is This came on the same day that six
:39:24. > :39:29.Birmingham schools were put in special measures for failing to
:39:30. > :39:32.protect pupils from Islamic extremism and there are fears that
:39:33. > :39:51.schools elsewhere have been targeted I can only speak on what I know
:39:52. > :39:56.which is very little about schools in Luton. All I can say is that if
:39:57. > :40:00.this is going on and off st`ge is saying it is, then it is not
:40:01. > :40:05.acceptable. It is not acceptable for any religious top when of any fees
:40:06. > :40:09.or the nomination to be taught to children. I have long held the view
:40:10. > :40:14.that we should follow the French example, where you do not h`ve
:40:15. > :40:19.religious schools but relighon is taught as part of the curriculum in
:40:20. > :40:23.state schools. My worry is that where you have a feast days still,
:40:24. > :40:29.which could be Christian, is that those youngsters do not mix in the
:40:30. > :40:30.real world and become institutionalised. `` faith `based
:40:31. > :40:32.skill. Do you think this raises important
:40:33. > :40:44.issues abut British Values? We have always had a tradithon of
:40:45. > :40:52.tolerance for people with other religious views, like you in
:40:53. > :40:57.Colchester. But to the nation is a two`way street. We are happx to
:40:58. > :41:02.tolerate people who have bedn persecuted for their religious
:41:03. > :41:06.beliefs but I do not think we can tolerate intolerance itself. To
:41:07. > :41:13.blame all stayed is very unfair I think. Ofsted said the school was
:41:14. > :41:17.inadequate. `` to blame Ofsted. It said that they were not exposed to
:41:18. > :41:22.other faiths and lifestyle. They also criticised but you cannot have
:41:23. > :41:24.it both ways. You cannot accept it when they see were good and rejected
:41:25. > :41:28.when they criticise it. Well,
:41:29. > :41:31.the rule of law might be a British Health professionals in Norfolk and
:41:32. > :41:35.Suffolk are claiming that m`nagers are failing in their legal duty
:41:36. > :41:37.of care to mental health patients They've been taking part
:41:38. > :41:41.in a public consultation th`t's overwhelmingly opposed proposals to
:41:42. > :41:44.cut mental health beds in W`veney When he is at home,
:41:45. > :41:49.you feel like you have to cope. It is your husband, the person
:41:50. > :41:52.you love most in the world. But seeing him going bit by bit
:41:53. > :41:55.knowing how he was Dementia has taken away her husband,
:41:56. > :42:03.David, the man that Police found him on a railw`y line,
:42:04. > :42:09.which could have had That is when something had to be
:42:10. > :42:14.done. Her one consolation is that David
:42:15. > :42:18.is now safe and secure nearby. It is here at Carlton Court
:42:19. > :42:21.in Lowestoft where he receives Last year, two 12 bed wards were
:42:22. > :42:28.closed here along with a daycare centre
:42:29. > :42:32.and the loss of more than 30 jobs. Three 12 bed wards
:42:33. > :42:36.for continuing care remain open The question is ` for how mtch
:42:37. > :42:40.longer? It is all part of
:42:41. > :42:42.the reorganisation of mental health services in Norfolk and Suffolk
:42:43. > :42:46.where the trust is trying to save A public consultation involving more
:42:47. > :42:53.than 1000 people has reportdd claims that patient safety is being placed
:42:54. > :42:56.at risk In the consultation,
:42:57. > :43:14.they said exceptionally cle`rly that when they do an assessment
:43:15. > :43:17.and there is no bed available anywhere in the country that means
:43:18. > :43:21.that they are unable to leg`lly fulfil their responsibilitids under
:43:22. > :43:24.the Mental Health Act. In the last couple of weeks,
:43:25. > :43:27.we have had people admitted to Yorkshire and down
:43:28. > :43:31.as far as Brighton. It is not just a bed issue,
:43:32. > :43:35.our community services have been A meeting on
:43:36. > :43:39.the public consultation will be held later this month and the final
:43:40. > :43:43.decision is due in September. It is like having
:43:44. > :43:47.a dagger hanging over your head You're trying to put it out of
:43:48. > :43:50.your mind until you hear a decision but how can you not
:43:51. > :43:52.think about it? Norman Lamb, the CCGs and
:43:53. > :43:58.the board of the mental health trust all have a part to play, all seem to
:43:59. > :44:03.say it's somebody else's problem. What would your message be to
:44:04. > :44:06.Norman Lamb about the situation He has been reported
:44:07. > :44:14.in saying that it is intolerable Instead of complaining
:44:15. > :44:21.and passing the buck, he has to say Why are they saying that yot
:44:22. > :44:27.have got to save ?20 million? People with mental illness or
:44:28. > :44:30.a disease cannot stand up It has got to be up to
:44:31. > :44:40.us to fight for them. Well, earlier this week our
:44:41. > :44:42.correspondent Alan Soady met with Norman Lamb and he asked
:44:43. > :44:45.the Minister why the closurd of wards has coincided with a reduction
:44:46. > :44:48.in support in the community I have seen it myself
:44:49. > :44:54.as a local member of Parlialent I have taken up issues with
:44:55. > :44:57.the mental health trust and have to say that I have criticisms
:44:58. > :45:01.of the mental health trust `bout the way in which they have sought
:45:02. > :45:04.to achieve their reorganisation It was highly unfortunate,
:45:05. > :45:08.I put it no more than that, that the chief executive who
:45:09. > :45:13.launched the transformation of their services chose himself to
:45:14. > :45:18.leave halfway through the process. Do you acknowledge that somd
:45:19. > :45:21.patients are having to travdl much bigger distances
:45:22. > :45:25.and that is not good for Yes and I find it
:45:26. > :45:30.completely intolerable. If I was a family member solebody
:45:31. > :45:35.sent off 200 miles away I would I have made it clear
:45:36. > :45:42.from my position that this practice It is not necessarily always the
:45:43. > :45:48.case that you need an inpathent bed. There are any progressives
:45:49. > :45:52.in mental health care looking much more at alternatives
:45:53. > :45:55.like recovery houses. Third sector organisations providing
:45:56. > :45:59.brilliant resources, to avohd inpatient admission and help someone
:46:00. > :46:04.go through a mental health crisis. Or providing support for people
:46:05. > :46:07.at home. The response to this consultation
:46:08. > :46:10.will come next month. Can you give any assurances that
:46:11. > :46:18.there will be no further cuts Again,
:46:19. > :46:23.coming back to the issue of beds, we have seen a significant reduction
:46:24. > :46:27.in more than a decade in thd number Does that mean there
:46:28. > :46:31.could be more cuts? It is getting the care right
:46:32. > :46:37.for individuals. Across the country
:46:38. > :46:43.we see variable lengths The progressives in mental health
:46:44. > :46:50.believe that the average length of stay needs to come down
:46:51. > :46:52.significantly, getting more people Much better early interventhon,
:46:53. > :46:58.for instance, in psychosis, is something that everybody is
:46:59. > :47:02.calling for across the systdm. Should you not be getting
:47:03. > :47:06.the community part of it in place That is what the mental health
:47:07. > :47:15.trust should be doing. They should be working
:47:16. > :47:17.collaboratively with That is why it is really good that
:47:18. > :47:21.the commissioner in Yarmouth has been proactive in trying to
:47:22. > :47:25.understand community needs `nd working with the mental health trust
:47:26. > :47:29.to ensure those needs are mdt. I don't have total power as minister
:47:30. > :47:34.to achieve what I want to sde. But I will constantly, in the time I
:47:35. > :47:38.have available, advocate That you will do all that you can
:47:39. > :47:49.but the action will not necdssarily I am trying to be honest about the
:47:50. > :47:57.things that I can do and cannot do. I have intervened directly to get
:47:58. > :48:03.extra money for mental health. I will do everything I can within
:48:04. > :48:09.my power. But in a very
:48:10. > :48:12.decentralised system, which has this government came to powdr,
:48:13. > :48:16.the decisions about allocathons Had the Norfolk and
:48:17. > :48:31.Suffolk Foundation Trust run their proposals for change past the county
:48:32. > :48:33.council's health scrutiny committee before making the redundanches
:48:34. > :48:47.and sanctioning the bed closures? I do not think so. The decision is
:48:48. > :48:52.not going to be taken and of September. But the beds that have
:48:53. > :48:56.already been removed. There have been no cuts in great Yarmotth, I
:48:57. > :49:02.cannot answer for Suffolk. Listening to Norman Lamb is like listdning to
:49:03. > :49:08.what is pilot. Wringing his hands and saying, " is this not awful " He
:49:09. > :49:11.is the Health Minister! Wikh rig from him all the time that he wishes
:49:12. > :49:18.he could do something about it. If he feels that strongly then I
:49:19. > :49:23.suggest he does something or resign. To keep saying it is terrible but
:49:24. > :49:31.somebody of's fault. I think that is frankly. It is true. It is not. The
:49:32. > :49:33.situation is that there is not enough money going into mental
:49:34. > :49:40.health across the country. Hn the case we have here, if anybody can
:49:41. > :49:45.get underneath and kicked b`ckside I have confidence that Norman Lamb is
:49:46. > :49:50.the man to do it. As he said, in the delegate authority down to local
:49:51. > :49:56.organisations and health trtsts you must rely on them to do it. What
:49:57. > :50:03.this shows is that these huge medical advances in cancers, illness
:50:04. > :50:07.and everything else, people are now surviving illnesses which would have
:50:08. > :50:11.killed an elder generation. The unintended consequences are that
:50:12. > :50:13.they are getting dementia l`ter in life. Let's talk about the
:50:14. > :50:32.practicalities of that. People are being sent far away. They
:50:33. > :50:34.have had to face 20% cuts ilposed by the Health Service, not by `nybody
:50:35. > :50:44.locally but by the Government of self. 23% of people who present
:50:45. > :50:48.themselves at the Health Service are there with mental health problems.
:50:49. > :50:52.Something else needs to be done Norman knows there are cuts. What
:50:53. > :50:57.money is being spent on the NHS under the Coalition governmdnt. . It
:50:58. > :51:03.is more than the last Government. I expect there is an argument about
:51:04. > :51:10.how you cut the cake but thd gig is better. Is it right to send people
:51:11. > :51:14.hundreds of miles away? Of course it is not. Of course it is not. I think
:51:15. > :51:20.that comes down to local management. I thought we had got away, but
:51:21. > :51:25.clearly not, but we need to get away of the mentality of one trust
:51:26. > :51:30.looking itself and the unintended consequences is that if thex do not
:51:31. > :51:35.have the beds for psychiatrhc people but it could tie up police officers.
:51:36. > :51:38.Mental health is labour`intdnsive. You can find new operations for
:51:39. > :51:46.injuries but mental health pages 121. It is very personal. Thank you.
:51:47. > :51:48.Now from a crisis in health care to a crunch vote
:51:49. > :51:52.Three weeks after yet anothdr set of disastrous election results
:51:53. > :51:54.in this region, party members in Cambridge have been
:51:55. > :51:57.openly discussing whether their best hope would be a change of ldader.
:51:58. > :51:58.A special meeting was held on Friday night,
:51:59. > :52:01.where members debated whethdr or not to call for a leadership eldction.
:52:02. > :52:04.After what was described as a lively three hour meethng they
:52:05. > :52:08.voted, by the relatively narrow margin of 45`32,
:52:09. > :52:17.We have a huge number of people members of the Liberal Democrats,
:52:18. > :52:21.It is quite rare in politics these days for people to
:52:22. > :52:26.You do not see it at Labour and Conservative party confdrences.
:52:27. > :52:35.I am proud that my party is able to have that discussion.
:52:36. > :52:37.I am joined by our political correspondent, Andrew Sincl`ir.
:52:38. > :52:42.So is this now the end of the matter and what does it tell us about the
:52:43. > :52:46.The vote was much closer th`n people were expecting and it's a shgn
:52:47. > :52:50.Remember these are the grassroots, the people who loyally give
:52:51. > :52:53.their time and money for a cause which they belidve
:52:54. > :52:59.Here in the east they polled less than
:53:00. > :53:03.The driving force behind thhs vote in Cambridge was that unauthorised
:53:04. > :53:13.Labour were ahead of the Lib Dems by 14%.
:53:14. > :53:18.If Vince Cable were leader, his poll claimed that lead would be
:53:19. > :53:27.And that's why some thought it was time for Nick Clegg to go.
:53:28. > :53:35.He can be an extremely eloqtent advocate but unfortunately he is so
:53:36. > :53:39.unpopular with some people that he actually damages those causds when
:53:40. > :53:43.he is advocating them. That is why I signed the letter. I do not think
:53:44. > :53:50.you can be a party leader when such a big chunk of the electorate are
:53:51. > :53:51.willing to give you a fair hearing. You could also argue that as the
:53:52. > :53:56.queues outside Cambridge. And that's not just the casd
:53:57. > :53:58.in Cambridge. The Lib Dems always used to call
:53:59. > :54:00.themselves the official 11 years ago they ran all these
:54:01. > :54:04.authorities, big rural ones like North Norfolk
:54:05. > :54:06.and East Cambs, important urban ones Now they only run Colchester,
:54:07. > :54:09.Bedford and Brentwood but they don't have a clear majority
:54:10. > :54:12.and overall control. They are also part of a rainbow
:54:13. > :54:15.alliance running Southend. Four years ago they had nearly 00
:54:16. > :54:19.councillors on borough, district But since 2010 they have lost 1 3
:54:20. > :54:25.councillors and are now And it's got so bad for the party
:54:26. > :54:31.that in this year's local elections they didn't field a single candidate
:54:32. > :54:34.in Great Yarmouth or Castle Point. That's very embarrassing
:54:35. > :54:37.for a major political party. So will anywhere else call for
:54:38. > :54:40.Nick Clegg to go? I think the moment has passdd
:54:41. > :54:44.but there is a lot of concern In Norfolk,
:54:45. > :54:46.where two county councillors signed that letter calling for Nick Clegg
:54:47. > :54:49.to stand down, I was told bx one senior member that about a third of
:54:50. > :54:53.the party would like Clegg to go, another third would agree if it
:54:54. > :54:56.wasn't so close to an electhon. I've also heard rumblings of discontent
:54:57. > :54:58.in Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire. The party leadership
:54:59. > :55:00.in the region insists that this is just a minority and most melbers are
:55:01. > :55:10.still behind Nick Clegg. `` there is no great wish to change
:55:11. > :55:15.the leader within the party. Why not? Because it is not just Nick
:55:16. > :55:21.Clegg. It is about the mess`ge that we all have the great across the
:55:22. > :55:25.people. `` have to get across. It is about campaigning on the ground and
:55:26. > :55:36.media to show that we are ddlivering success in government. It is not
:55:37. > :55:38.easy to deliver success overnight. They believe they can still bounce
:55:39. > :55:39.back. That vote was much too tight
:55:40. > :55:49.for comfort. I will leave Cambridge to do what
:55:50. > :55:53.they want to do. We are a ddmocratic party. I will go from this studio
:55:54. > :55:59.back to Colchester for a celebration party. The Lib Dems have defended 26
:56:00. > :56:06.seats, held 25 in the past six years. All I can say is that the
:56:07. > :56:09.results where Apache. You are in the room with me but that is about you
:56:10. > :56:15.than the leadership and the Lib Dems, is not? That is nice of you to
:56:16. > :56:19.see. The Lib Dems are strong in parts of the region and as hndicated
:56:20. > :56:28.they are there are other ardas where we have no representation. We are
:56:29. > :56:32.feeling it. When I was formdd by the National media, which are driving
:56:33. > :56:36.this, and I'm disappointed hn the BBC for having polymers. It is not
:56:37. > :56:41.the media, it is the lack of thoughts. There are elements in the
:56:42. > :56:45.right wing Tory press who do not like the Coalition. They wanted to
:56:46. > :56:49.have a right wing Tory government. And I will tell you a littld secret,
:56:50. > :56:57.David Cameron prefer is working with the Liberal Democrats than being at
:56:58. > :57:04.the beck and call of the right`wing head`bangers. I get on very well
:57:05. > :57:07.with the Liberal Democrat local County Council because going
:57:08. > :57:14.coalition with Labour there. That is what you should be doing nationally,
:57:15. > :57:18.follow their example! But the thing is, they talked about whethdr Vince
:57:19. > :57:22.Cable would be better than Nick Clegg. I think you would be. Have
:57:23. > :57:26.you thought about it? Pleasd don't start that campaign! Stephen
:57:27. > :57:33.Robinson mentioned a football analogy. He said that it might be a
:57:34. > :57:39.team's fault but old medley in manager has the fall on his sword.
:57:40. > :57:45.We are less than a year awax from a general election and when the media
:57:46. > :57:48.phoned me I said that Ed Miliband Struan Stevenson they said, we mean
:57:49. > :57:54.Nick Clegg! I said that he had been democratically elected by the
:57:55. > :57:57.membership and so we support him. I support the reader and Cambridge
:57:58. > :58:02.members are quite entitled to have a meeting and the majority of them
:58:03. > :58:06.voted... Are you not at all dismayed at the plight of the party `t the
:58:07. > :58:11.moment? When you look at thd election results be about? H am not
:58:12. > :58:13.enthusiastic but what I am enthusiastic about is how Lhberal
:58:14. > :58:19.Democrats, the first time in 80 years, they have been in government
:58:20. > :58:23.of this country and we have delivered in college and sole of our
:58:24. > :58:27.policies that I recognise what is being said here. It is a led
:58:28. > :58:34.government. But in a coalithon, we have got some of our policids
:58:35. > :58:39.through. Your party has been for 130 years split between two factions.
:58:40. > :58:45.The liberals who believe in... And progressives. We will have. Which
:58:46. > :58:49.one are you on? I am backing my party leader and a success story in
:58:50. > :58:50.Colchester! We will discuss it a different day.
:58:51. > :58:53.Now, the World Cup is well and truly underway in Brazil and
:58:54. > :58:53.there's plenty of team spirht in our political round up this week.
:58:54. > :59:06.Here it comes, in 60 seconds, with Chris Bond.
:59:07. > :59:12.As firefighters staged the latest Day of action in their disptte over
:59:13. > :59:13.pensions, the Communities Sdcretary was confident the union would soon
:59:14. > :59:16.be on site. A deal has was confident the union would soon
:59:17. > :59:21.be on site. A deal has been tantalisingly close for months.
:59:22. > :59:26.Essex County Council are also in an upbeat mood. This time over
:59:27. > :59:30.potholes, which they say will definitely be fixed before the Tour
:59:31. > :59:33.de France since the county next month.
:59:34. > :59:38.Futuristic vehicles were on the mind of the Business Secretary, Vince
:59:39. > :59:41.Cable. In Milton Keynes this week to open the UK's first transport
:59:42. > :59:47.innovation centre. The future looks rosy for this
:59:48. > :59:49.little person, born at Basildon Hospital which is out of spdcial
:59:50. > :59:53.measures. And will junior football te`ms be
:59:54. > :59:59.banned from heading the ball in future? MPs are called for lore
:00:00. > :00:04.pitch side expertise on the issue of concussion. Sport is about taking no
:00:05. > :00:06.and making sure that people taking training understand how to deal with
:00:07. > :00:09.those issues. `` taking hits. Is that good advice for polhticians,
:00:10. > :00:12.too, get used to the school But my party is in good spirits We
:00:13. > :00:20.are doing very well! If headers were banned,
:00:21. > :00:22.Ballotelli wouldn't have scored the winner last night and m`ybe
:00:23. > :00:32.we'd have come away with a draw Yvelines I could have headed that
:00:33. > :00:35.one in. But to play ahead to be in the right place to score... We need
:00:36. > :00:42.to be very serious about thhs. Heading is part of the game but what
:00:43. > :00:45.is not being properly looked at at an amateur level and professional
:00:46. > :00:50.level, is concussion and he`d injuries. Do you think it ndeds
:00:51. > :00:53.looking at? In the past, whdn football is where heavier it was a
:00:54. > :00:57.problem. Some footballers h`ve suffered from brain damage `nd when
:00:58. > :00:59.dealing with children you h`ve to be extra careful. Thank you very much
:01:00. > :01:00.for joining us. There are big changes afoot
:01:01. > :01:15.in the EU following last month's European elections,
:01:16. > :01:17.not least who'll get the top job But
:01:18. > :01:21.behind the scenes the parties have also been jockeying for position as
:01:22. > :01:24.they try to form the big groups that And UKIP seems to have been
:01:25. > :01:29.struggling to keep its influence Here's Adam to explain
:01:30. > :01:41.how it all works. If you want your party to be a big
:01:42. > :01:45.cheese in the European Parliament, you need to form a political group.
:01:46. > :01:49.By doing this, the party gets more money, more positions on committees
:01:50. > :01:56.and even more speaking rights in the chamber. But the parliament's rules
:01:57. > :02:01.are strict. And to form a group you need a group of 25 MPs from at least
:02:02. > :02:04.seven different countries. For UKIP, the number of MEPs will not be a
:02:05. > :02:09.problem because they already have 24 of their own, but the different
:02:10. > :02:13.nationalities are more of a challenge. Nigel Farage was not
:02:14. > :02:18.helped by the Tories stealing - stealing his former Danish and
:02:19. > :02:26.Finnish allies, and the pen pinching his Italian charms. Nigel needs a
:02:27. > :02:29.new charm and fast. He has already signed up Lithuania's order and
:02:30. > :02:35.justice, a free citizen from Prague, and the Dutchman from the reformed
:02:36. > :02:43.political party. The big signing was the 17 members of the Italian Beppe
:02:44. > :02:46.Griego's 5-star movement, but it leaves UKIP short of two more
:02:47. > :02:50.international powers, and with the clock ticking, it looks like his
:02:51. > :02:54.hopes resting on the Swedish Democrats and the Polish new right
:02:55. > :03:01.Congress. They both make their decisions next week.
:03:02. > :03:06.What is the latest? UKIP have enough MEPs with their pals, but they need
:03:07. > :03:11.seven countries, as I understand it. They are not there yet. They are
:03:12. > :03:15.wrapped five countries and need another two. UKIP are being quite
:03:16. > :03:20.buoyant and say they will be meeting MEPs from five countries next week
:03:21. > :03:24.and are pretty confident they will get those countries, but as Adam was
:03:25. > :03:33.saying, the problem UKIP have had is that the Conservatives have nicked
:03:34. > :03:36.two of the parties. That is why they have been struggling, but they say
:03:37. > :03:40.they are confident they will do it. Meanwhile, the Tories new best
:03:41. > :03:46.friends are the German Eurosceptic party, which has put Mrs Merkel s
:03:47. > :03:52.nose out of joint, but we don't quite know whether she really cares
:03:53. > :03:58.or not. I think Cameron has played his hand badly since he committed to
:03:59. > :04:05.pulling out of the EBP. And he should be in there with Angela
:04:06. > :04:11.Merkel and if he needs to make a major renegotiation, he needs to
:04:12. > :04:16.have the Germans onside. Instead there is a breakaway party and its
:04:17. > :04:22.like supporting UKIP. His party are supporting her worst enemy. It
:04:23. > :04:24.certainly causing him a lot of problems, and undermines his
:04:25. > :04:31.negotiating position, but isn't there an honesty that the
:04:32. > :04:35.centre-right group is explicitly Federalist, and the Tories are
:04:36. > :04:39.anything but, so they came out, and Labour are in the Socialist group,
:04:40. > :04:44.which is explicitly Federalist, and they are not Federalist either. If
:04:45. > :04:48.you want support and influence in Europe, you have to trade, and he
:04:49. > :04:55.hasn't done this well. The whole business with who will be the next
:04:56. > :04:59.president, he needs Angela Merkel's support. Without that, it won't
:05:00. > :05:06.happen. He should have been trading behind-the-scenes, but he has
:05:07. > :05:09.exposed himself in public, and if he doesn't win it looks uncertain, and
:05:10. > :05:12.he will be in a position where he has to go back to his own party and
:05:13. > :05:16.say they are not getting anywhere. That is dangerous and takes us
:05:17. > :05:23.closer to the Exeter, which I don't think would want. The danger for Mr
:05:24. > :05:28.Cameron is if it is the president of the commission, he will save you
:05:29. > :05:31.cannot stop a federalist becoming head of the European commission
:05:32. > :05:38.what chance do you have of repatriating lots of powers back to
:05:39. > :05:42.London. There are lots of Tory MPs dying to make the argument. My hunch
:05:43. > :05:46.is that he won't make it. There are too many countries opposed to his
:05:47. > :05:52.presidency and even the country notionally in favour of it, Germany,
:05:53. > :05:57.is failing in youth -- enthusiasm. Angela Merkel cannot be seen to give
:05:58. > :06:04.in to the Brits this. Her own side once it as well, though some reason
:06:05. > :06:08.the German media says it. When she tried to reach out and said to look
:06:09. > :06:13.at the other candidates, she got such abuse on the right wing press
:06:14. > :06:23.from her own country and party she had to retreat. Janan is right that
:06:24. > :06:29.there is opposition to Juncker, but as long as Cameron turns it into an
:06:30. > :06:35.argument about Britain and Europe, he will strengthen the hand of
:06:36. > :06:40.Juncker. Angela Merkel thinks Juncker is inappropriate. She did
:06:41. > :06:43.not like the process, which was a power grab by the European
:06:44. > :06:47.Parliament, but when David Cameron went to the council and said that if
:06:48. > :06:54.I don't get my way, we could leave the EU, that led to the backlash,
:06:55. > :06:58.most significantly from the SPD in Germany. As Tony Blair says, if only
:06:59. > :07:01.David Cameron had made the argument that Juncker is bad for Europe, then
:07:02. > :07:06.he would have found his natural allies would have felt more
:07:07. > :07:14.comfortable following behind. Enough Europe. I want to show you a
:07:15. > :07:18.picture. See what you think of this. When I saw that picture, I thought
:07:19. > :07:25.it was so ludicrous that it had to have been photo shop. Discuss. He is
:07:26. > :07:30.holding it with a certain disdain, looking a bit hangdog. A disastrous
:07:31. > :07:35.picture for Ed Miliband. His strength is authenticity, sincerity
:07:36. > :07:38.and cleverness. And he blows all of that. He was the one who took on
:07:39. > :07:43.Murdoch, very bravely and dangerously, and one, really. Now
:07:44. > :07:47.there he is supporting Murdoch's son. It's a big mistake, not just in
:07:48. > :07:55.Liverpool, where obviously they are particularly incensed. And then he
:07:56. > :07:59.apologises. Sort of apologises and understands why Liverpool feels
:08:00. > :08:03.upset. But it is a fundamental error and I hope he learns from this, that
:08:04. > :08:08.he must absolutely stay true to himself. That's all he's got going
:08:09. > :08:16.for him. Who do we blame? His advisers or himself? In the end
:08:17. > :08:23.himself. Nobody forced him to do it. On this one, he called it wrong
:08:24. > :08:30.It's a sign of the rather the bridal state of the Labour Party is that
:08:31. > :08:39.his candidates were vocal in attacking him doing this. It's a
:08:40. > :08:41.sign of how readable Ed Miliband is at Parliamentary level. I don't
:08:42. > :08:50.think you should have apologised. The mistake he made was associating
:08:51. > :08:55.himself with that newspaper. The mistake was the prior three years
:08:56. > :09:00.when he went too far as portraying the Murdoch empire beyond the pale.
:09:01. > :09:05.He made a case against phone hacking and offences in that regard without
:09:06. > :09:09.going as far as he did with the rhetoric. To do that, and then pose
:09:10. > :09:13.with the Sun newspaper, the juxtaposition is what did for him,
:09:14. > :09:18.not the mere fact of posing with it. Maybe he did not know what he was
:09:19. > :09:21.doing because we were told he doesn't read the British
:09:22. > :09:26.newspapers. It was football, and he has posed with the Sun newspaper
:09:27. > :09:30.before. Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg posed as well. But with the Sun
:09:31. > :09:34.newspaper and football, you tread carefully. That was the mistake You
:09:35. > :09:38.get the impression from the picture that he looks so uncomfortable that
:09:39. > :09:42.you wonder whether there was a full process of consultation that went on
:09:43. > :09:45.within his media operation, within his political operation. Was he
:09:46. > :09:49.fully aware of what would happen question what he looks so incredibly
:09:50. > :09:53.uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, leaders have to take
:09:54. > :09:58.responsibility. It is cultural as well. That picture says, I am down
:09:59. > :10:03.there with the football blokes and you think, you are not. That is not
:10:04. > :10:05.what people will vote for. Be yourself and don't pretend to be
:10:06. > :10:10.something else because it never works. But the polls suggest that
:10:11. > :10:16.the British voters don't yet see Ed Miliband as prime ministerial. The
:10:17. > :10:19.worst thing you can then do is get involved in stunts that are more
:10:20. > :10:23.likely to reinforce that idea than counter it. There was a precedent
:10:24. > :10:30.for it in the last parliament which was Gordon Brown's attempts to feign
:10:31. > :10:35.a populist touch. He did it by telling the contents of his iPod.
:10:36. > :10:40.The Arctic monkeys. It always jarred because he was trying too hard. Not
:10:41. > :10:44.uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband all the other leaders have done it. At
:10:45. > :10:49.the moment he more vulnerable. Yes, and he is less popular than his
:10:50. > :10:53.party. Labour has quite a popular brand, in a resilient way, in a way
:10:54. > :10:57.they don't with the Tories, yet their leader is a personal problem.
:10:58. > :11:03.The pressure is on him to do stunts like this. Will there be a shadow
:11:04. > :11:06.cabinet reshuffle? Yes, we have to get the cabinet reshuffle out of the
:11:07. > :11:10.way first, and that might come next week, maybe by the time of the
:11:11. > :11:13.summer recess, but the first thing that the prime Minister do is work
:11:14. > :11:20.out who is the UK candidate for the European Commissioner. Is it not the
:11:21. > :11:25.case probably that Ed Balls is becoming semi-detached from the Ed
:11:26. > :11:28.Miliband project? I don't think entirely. Nothing gets agreed
:11:29. > :11:31.without both of the end are green. Ed Balls is controversial. He has
:11:32. > :11:36.great pluses and minuses and is a big figure. Labour doesn't have that
:11:37. > :11:41.many big figures. It's quite hard to think who would be a heavy hitter as
:11:42. > :11:46.a possible Chancellor. He is a convincing chancellor to the future,
:11:47. > :11:51.Love him. He has the heft -- love him or hate him. Any possibility Ed
:11:52. > :11:56.Balls could be moved as shadow chancellor? The timing is convenient
:11:57. > :11:59.because the Scottish referendum ends in the autumn and Alistair Darling
:12:00. > :12:04.becomes a free man, win or lose I don't think Ed Balls will be removed
:12:05. > :12:06.because moving him would be an admission that everything the Labour
:12:07. > :12:10.Party said about the economy to the preceding four years has been a
:12:11. > :12:15.mistake. And you can't do that nine months before a general election.
:12:16. > :12:19.You invite ridicule. But relations between Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are
:12:20. > :12:22.not great at the moment. The Ed Miliband team are very, very
:12:23. > :12:26.suspicious of this new love in between Ed Balls and Peter
:12:27. > :12:30.Mandelson. Mandelson likes to say that he spotted the Ed Balls talents
:12:31. > :12:36.in the original place and appointed him to the Gordon Brown team after
:12:37. > :12:40.the disaster of 1992. But things obviously went awry, and now Ed
:12:41. > :12:45.Balls and Peter Mandelson Avenue Rappaport, and that is with enormous
:12:46. > :12:50.suspicion -- they have a new Rappaport. With good reason because
:12:51. > :12:52.it's about policy. It's about the attitude towards business. Should
:12:53. > :12:58.they be out there saying they will get the tax dodgers, Starbucks,
:12:59. > :13:03.Vodafone, are we going to take on business in a big way? In a way that
:13:04. > :13:06.Ed Miliband has quite bravely said. On the other hand, Ed Balls and
:13:07. > :13:10.Peter Mandelson are saying, hang on, we only won in 1997 by being
:13:11. > :13:13.business friendly. Sorry to rush you. We are running out of time
:13:14. > :13:17.The Daily Politics will be back every day this week at midday,
:13:18. > :13:19.and I'll be back here next Sunday when I'll be joined
:13:20. > :13:22.by the shadow work and pensions secretary Rachel Reeves.Remember
:13:23. > :13:53.if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:13:54. > :14:00.Magnificent. The power base of medieval England.
:14:01. > :14:05.Charles' ceiling was a piece of breathtaking arrogance.
:14:06. > :14:13.You get a sense of the people who made the palaces.
:14:14. > :14:17.as I unlock the secrets of Britain's great palaces.