:00:36. > :00:41.There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next
:00:42. > :00:43.leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,
:00:44. > :00:50.This man might have something to say about that.
:00:51. > :00:53.Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.
:00:54. > :00:56.So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?
:00:57. > :01:01.The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane
:01:02. > :01:04.on the country's second city which has been in the hands of
:01:05. > :01:12.But what will be the fallout from this key clash?
:01:13. > :01:13.Here in the East: unlocking the logjam.
:01:14. > :01:15.Calls to cut congestion on
:01:16. > :01:20.our roads and railways are growing, but is the Government listening?
:01:21. > :01:24.one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords
:01:25. > :01:29.be licensed to help tackle the squalor?
:01:30. > :01:32.And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political
:01:33. > :01:35.panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -
:01:36. > :01:44.The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided
:01:45. > :01:50.The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous
:01:51. > :01:55.Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".
:01:56. > :02:02.This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,
:02:03. > :02:04.announced that she would be running for the leadership.
:02:05. > :02:09.I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,
:02:10. > :02:12.and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is
:02:13. > :02:15.because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support
:02:16. > :02:19.And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures
:02:20. > :02:22.on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.
:02:23. > :02:26.Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me
:02:27. > :02:31.I know head office was besieged with letters in support.
:02:32. > :02:34.I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing
:02:35. > :02:37.of our members, because our members are the most important
:02:38. > :02:46.Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years
:02:47. > :02:49.and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.
:02:50. > :02:57.Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.
:02:58. > :03:04.Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be
:03:05. > :03:09.the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only
:03:10. > :03:14.amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the
:03:15. > :03:18.MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip
:03:19. > :03:22.needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is
:03:23. > :03:34.looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four
:03:35. > :03:37.step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an
:03:38. > :03:39.ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at
:03:40. > :03:45.all. Students of political history know that political parties take a
:03:46. > :03:50.long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is
:03:51. > :03:55.facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us
:03:56. > :04:00.on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am
:04:01. > :04:04.the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the
:04:05. > :04:08.party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common
:04:09. > :04:13.challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the
:04:14. > :04:18.last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I
:04:19. > :04:23.have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time
:04:24. > :04:28.away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done
:04:29. > :04:31.and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be
:04:32. > :04:36.the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very
:04:37. > :04:41.experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step
:04:42. > :04:48.in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night
:04:49. > :04:51.of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want
:04:52. > :05:01.that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party
:05:02. > :05:05.is facing an existential crisis, and I want to make sure that Ukip is on
:05:06. > :05:12.the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We
:05:13. > :05:18.have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to
:05:19. > :05:24.be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne
:05:25. > :05:27.would be an excellent candidate. I thought the 2015 manifesto was the
:05:28. > :05:31.best out of all the political parties. I would be the best
:05:32. > :05:37.candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within
:05:38. > :05:41.the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I
:05:42. > :05:48.could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain
:05:49. > :05:53.Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes,
:05:54. > :05:58.I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the
:05:59. > :06:02.next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership
:06:03. > :06:08.election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the
:06:09. > :06:14.new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the
:06:15. > :06:18.referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar
:06:19. > :06:24.schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have
:06:25. > :06:28.Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of
:06:29. > :06:34.March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a
:06:35. > :06:39.strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a
:06:40. > :06:43.huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party
:06:44. > :06:48.no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working
:06:49. > :06:52.people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to
:06:53. > :06:57.Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the
:06:58. > :07:01.north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class
:07:02. > :07:03.communities right across the country is. There are working-class
:07:04. > :07:18.communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a
:07:19. > :07:21.number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I
:07:22. > :07:24.believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so
:07:25. > :07:26.if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case.
:07:27. > :07:33.I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that
:07:34. > :07:41.called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to
:07:42. > :07:44.move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive
:07:45. > :07:50.Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and
:07:51. > :07:54.concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing
:07:55. > :08:00.my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the
:08:01. > :08:04.game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the
:08:05. > :08:09.candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you
:08:10. > :08:13.keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European
:08:14. > :08:16.Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we
:08:17. > :08:24.would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you
:08:25. > :08:28.think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win
:08:29. > :08:32.female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone
:08:33. > :08:38.out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't
:08:39. > :08:43.think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I
:08:44. > :08:45.wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think
:08:46. > :08:52.the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you
:08:53. > :08:57.win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first
:08:58. > :09:03.couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to
:09:04. > :09:09.factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of
:09:10. > :09:14.the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify,
:09:15. > :09:15.Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us
:09:16. > :09:18.this morning. We won't have to wait too long
:09:19. > :09:20.to find out who Ukip's new leader will be -
:09:21. > :09:30.the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for
:09:31. > :09:34.Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today
:09:35. > :09:42.is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or
:09:43. > :09:50.Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently
:09:51. > :09:57.Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip
:09:58. > :10:05.to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is
:10:06. > :10:12.a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst
:10:13. > :10:18.nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality
:10:19. > :10:22.difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne
:10:23. > :10:26.Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be
:10:27. > :10:33.taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the
:10:34. > :10:40.Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the
:10:41. > :10:51.Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things
:10:52. > :10:55.always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and
:10:56. > :11:03.Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much.
:11:04. > :11:11.But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best
:11:12. > :11:15.secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We
:11:16. > :11:22.have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch
:11:23. > :11:26.there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash
:11:27. > :11:32.we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond
:11:33. > :11:34.May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United
:11:35. > :11:42.Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May
:11:43. > :11:46.2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to
:11:47. > :11:51.start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that
:11:52. > :11:53.leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall
:11:54. > :11:56.see. In June 2014, the group which calls
:11:57. > :11:59.itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's
:12:00. > :12:01.second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced
:12:02. > :12:04.it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state,
:12:05. > :12:06.on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided
:12:07. > :12:15.by Iranian-backed Shia fighters, Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air
:12:16. > :12:20.support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb
:12:21. > :12:38.from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before
:12:39. > :12:42.it destroys them. These are the first steps
:12:43. > :12:45.in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has
:12:46. > :12:50.made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around
:12:51. > :12:55.2 million people means that they established governance,
:12:56. > :12:59.they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone,
:13:00. > :13:02.because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more
:13:03. > :13:07.than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric
:13:08. > :13:11.of another society. It's being billed as the biggest
:13:12. > :13:15.military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest
:13:16. > :13:19.moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces
:13:20. > :13:25.are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south,
:13:26. > :13:29.the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division,
:13:30. > :13:31.trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up
:13:32. > :13:38.of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South,
:13:39. > :13:44.a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused
:13:45. > :13:47.of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying
:13:48. > :13:50.villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel
:13:51. > :13:57.on the ground. To the North West, a corridor
:13:58. > :14:00.has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters,
:14:01. > :14:02.in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed
:14:03. > :14:05.when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle
:14:06. > :14:08.and it's taking place in the outlying villages
:14:09. > :14:10.and there have been some successes and some failures,
:14:11. > :14:13.but the momentum is building. And the real question will be
:14:14. > :14:16.when the attackers get towards the city itself,
:14:17. > :14:20.how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack
:14:21. > :14:27.within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back,
:14:28. > :14:32.on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk,
:14:33. > :14:34.including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds
:14:35. > :14:36.of thousands of families have been rounded up
:14:37. > :14:39.as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody,
:14:40. > :14:44.but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army,
:14:45. > :14:46.the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements,
:14:47. > :14:49.they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not
:14:50. > :14:53.for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want
:14:54. > :14:56.to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni
:14:57. > :15:01.majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have
:15:02. > :15:05.helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis
:15:06. > :15:07.Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something
:15:08. > :15:11.from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames
:15:12. > :15:14.and was then carved up, it is because that is what is
:15:15. > :15:17.happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut
:15:18. > :15:22.across by other identities such And that means that putting together
:15:23. > :15:32.a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be
:15:33. > :15:38.a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq
:15:39. > :15:41.at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul
:15:42. > :15:44.is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant
:15:45. > :15:48.which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that
:15:49. > :15:51.come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing
:15:52. > :15:53.but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International
:15:54. > :16:03.Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was
:16:04. > :16:06.the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following
:16:07. > :16:21.the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some
:16:22. > :16:31.stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first
:16:32. > :16:34.thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being
:16:35. > :16:37.the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident
:16:38. > :16:46.predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi
:16:47. > :16:52.forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I
:16:53. > :17:01.would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one
:17:02. > :17:04.STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces.
:17:05. > :17:12.June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and
:17:13. > :17:16.they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million
:17:17. > :17:21.people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they
:17:22. > :17:24.have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of
:17:25. > :17:29.Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about
:17:30. > :17:32.territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from
:17:33. > :17:40.Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow
:17:41. > :17:44.to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's
:17:45. > :17:47.presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including
:17:48. > :17:53.the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press
:17:54. > :17:59.into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the
:18:00. > :18:06.caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into
:18:07. > :18:10.Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from
:18:11. > :18:16.people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important
:18:17. > :18:21.principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a
:18:22. > :18:27.common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi
:18:28. > :18:32.government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis
:18:33. > :18:34.especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are
:18:35. > :18:41.difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very
:18:42. > :18:45.detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario
:18:46. > :18:53.will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps,
:18:54. > :19:02.refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that
:19:03. > :19:05.is where money, British money, ?40 million has gone recently into
:19:06. > :19:13.supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The
:19:14. > :19:16.United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one
:19:17. > :19:19.third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what
:19:20. > :19:24.is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee
:19:25. > :19:29.can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian
:19:30. > :19:34.fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen
:19:35. > :19:38.it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in
:19:39. > :19:43.about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has
:19:44. > :19:47.been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the
:19:48. > :19:50.accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and
:19:51. > :19:54.we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are
:19:55. > :19:59.right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is
:20:00. > :20:02.asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this
:20:03. > :20:06.week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city
:20:07. > :20:11.have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high
:20:12. > :20:17.in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can
:20:18. > :20:20.imagine the different scenarios, it could be a few thousand and it could
:20:21. > :20:23.be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line
:20:24. > :20:28.where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen
:20:29. > :20:32.those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and
:20:33. > :20:36.transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The
:20:37. > :20:39.people working on this have been working on this for long time, we
:20:40. > :20:45.have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in
:20:46. > :20:49.place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other
:20:50. > :20:54.areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan.
:20:55. > :20:57.It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the
:20:58. > :21:04.preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably
:21:05. > :21:10.be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken,
:21:11. > :21:15.the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the
:21:16. > :21:19.rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the
:21:20. > :21:25.second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be
:21:26. > :21:30.rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni
:21:31. > :21:38.community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are
:21:39. > :21:40.right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt
:21:41. > :21:44.excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad
:21:45. > :21:52.government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State
:21:53. > :21:56.coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a
:21:57. > :22:01.stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing
:22:02. > :22:06.structures are in place. The UK's response is twofold, we have got to
:22:07. > :22:09.get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might
:22:10. > :22:14.be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is
:22:15. > :22:19.working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul
:22:20. > :22:24.we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the
:22:25. > :22:29.Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant,
:22:30. > :22:34.it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in
:22:35. > :22:41.Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is,
:22:42. > :22:46.if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to
:22:47. > :22:50.look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its
:22:51. > :22:56.terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a
:22:57. > :23:00.group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it
:23:01. > :23:06.changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things. In
:23:07. > :23:11.2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when
:23:12. > :23:14.it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past
:23:15. > :23:19.it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.
:23:20. > :23:23.There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it
:23:24. > :23:28.will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the
:23:29. > :23:31.United States -- that could. They say that is something they have
:23:32. > :23:36.focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism
:23:37. > :23:44.security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe
:23:45. > :23:50.say. One final question. -- say. -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could
:23:51. > :23:55.add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?
:23:56. > :24:01.Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the
:24:02. > :24:04.biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the
:24:05. > :24:09.reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee
:24:10. > :24:13.camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --
:24:14. > :24:16.put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is
:24:17. > :24:19.their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that
:24:20. > :24:24.means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the
:24:25. > :24:28.medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an
:24:29. > :24:32.economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK
:24:33. > :24:38.National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and
:24:39. > :24:42.terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence
:24:43. > :24:59.Secretary. Does Labour support British
:25:00. > :25:03.participation in this offensive? We fully support the participation in
:25:04. > :25:09.this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this
:25:10. > :25:12.back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I
:25:13. > :25:18.was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive
:25:19. > :25:22.but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that
:25:23. > :25:28.has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full
:25:29. > :25:33.stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity
:25:34. > :25:36.and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn
:25:37. > :25:38.has said. What's been done in Iraq
:25:39. > :25:40.is done by the Iraqi government, and currently
:25:41. > :25:42.supported by the British government. I did not support it
:25:43. > :25:44.when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful
:25:45. > :25:48.it's been, because most of the action now appears to be
:25:49. > :26:00.moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.
:26:01. > :26:02.The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory
:26:03. > :26:08.Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous
:26:09. > :26:12.offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to
:26:13. > :26:17.be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.
:26:18. > :26:22.Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things
:26:23. > :26:28.have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is
:26:29. > :26:32.working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.
:26:33. > :26:36.We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk
:26:37. > :26:40.operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are
:26:41. > :26:47.living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question
:26:48. > :26:51.shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last
:26:52. > :26:55.major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of
:26:56. > :26:59.Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because
:27:00. > :27:06.we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It
:27:07. > :27:09.is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as
:27:10. > :27:12.Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the
:27:13. > :27:19.city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was
:27:20. > :27:23.about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special
:27:24. > :27:28.forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a
:27:29. > :27:40.strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq
:27:41. > :27:53.of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we
:27:54. > :27:56.can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they
:27:57. > :28:01.are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time
:28:02. > :28:04.we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.
:28:05. > :28:10.I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next
:28:11. > :28:16.manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will. We
:28:17. > :28:19.made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will
:28:20. > :28:22.honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that
:28:23. > :28:26.is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has
:28:27. > :28:32.been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote
:28:33. > :28:38.up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy
:28:39. > :28:42.and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK
:28:43. > :28:47.to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral
:28:48. > :28:51.disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.
:28:52. > :28:56.Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has
:28:57. > :29:01.happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been
:29:02. > :29:06.taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the
:29:07. > :29:09.conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to
:29:10. > :29:16.Trident -- vote. The review can't change that? There is a process of
:29:17. > :29:22.review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do
:29:23. > :29:26.this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We
:29:27. > :29:32.are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main
:29:33. > :29:35.strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we
:29:36. > :29:38.have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure
:29:39. > :29:42.that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we
:29:43. > :29:48.should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing
:29:49. > :29:50.humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court
:29:51. > :29:58.over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat
:29:59. > :30:03.imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let
:30:04. > :30:05.us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European
:30:06. > :30:11.initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain
:30:12. > :30:14.should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.
:30:15. > :30:20.Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle
:30:21. > :30:23.being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria
:30:24. > :30:26.has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's
:30:27. > :30:29.five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,
:30:30. > :30:32.in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English
:30:33. > :30:36.channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest
:30:37. > :30:39.surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought
:30:40. > :30:42.to be preparation for a final assault
:30:43. > :30:46.on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting
:30:47. > :30:50.resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -
:30:51. > :30:55.with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's
:30:56. > :30:58.rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been
:30:59. > :31:01.killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,
:31:02. > :31:05.backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned
:31:06. > :31:13.Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow
:31:14. > :31:15.of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support
:31:16. > :31:18.of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided
:31:19. > :31:23.on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied
:31:24. > :31:25.with domestic politics, President Putin senses this
:31:26. > :31:29.is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former
:31:30. > :31:37.Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master
:31:38. > :31:51.of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC
:31:52. > :31:57.studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to
:31:58. > :32:02.get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the
:32:03. > :32:07.commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New
:32:08. > :32:12.York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.
:32:13. > :32:17.Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in
:32:18. > :32:24.control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles
:32:25. > :32:28.wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it
:32:29. > :32:37.inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what
:32:38. > :32:43.President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce
:32:44. > :32:47.bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the
:32:48. > :32:52.Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when
:32:53. > :32:58.the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they
:32:59. > :33:03.went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking
:33:04. > :33:09.about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of
:33:10. > :33:13.the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The
:33:14. > :33:17.purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and
:33:18. > :33:23.then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more
:33:24. > :33:27.complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there
:33:28. > :33:31.was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so
:33:32. > :33:35.many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of
:33:36. > :33:45.the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been
:33:46. > :33:48.rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?
:33:49. > :33:51.Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier
:33:52. > :33:57.steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,
:33:58. > :34:03.both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved
:34:04. > :34:09.in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the
:34:10. > :34:13.ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the
:34:14. > :34:20.aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the
:34:21. > :34:24.rebel controlled area does fall, it would be seen as a great victory for
:34:25. > :34:29.President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia
:34:30. > :34:34.here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan
:34:35. > :34:41.that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia
:34:42. > :34:44.went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.
:34:45. > :34:49.President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or
:34:50. > :34:54.its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the
:34:55. > :35:00.argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the
:35:01. > :35:08.only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue
:35:09. > :35:16.argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.
:35:17. > :35:20.They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence
:35:21. > :35:28.at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to
:35:29. > :35:34.push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.
:35:35. > :35:39.Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.
:35:40. > :35:44.The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted
:35:45. > :35:49.by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there
:35:50. > :36:00.is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that
:36:01. > :36:05.part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to
:36:06. > :36:10.admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric
:36:11. > :36:15.from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are
:36:16. > :36:20.an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in
:36:21. > :36:26.the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging
:36:27. > :36:30.with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the
:36:31. > :36:36.place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in
:36:37. > :36:41.the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a
:36:42. > :36:45.country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is
:36:46. > :36:52.now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important
:36:53. > :36:56.message. Looking at the economy. It is in recession. GDP has been
:36:57. > :37:01.falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on
:37:02. > :37:06.hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling
:37:07. > :37:12.again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its
:37:13. > :37:18.GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy.
:37:19. > :37:27.Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it
:37:28. > :37:33.help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy
:37:34. > :37:38.was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of
:37:39. > :37:43.the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one
:37:44. > :37:48.hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort
:37:49. > :37:56.out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be
:37:57. > :38:01.danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential
:38:02. > :38:05.election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel
:38:06. > :38:10.he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so
:38:11. > :38:12.well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very
:38:13. > :38:15.much. We say goodbye to viewers
:38:16. > :38:25.in Scotland who leave us now Hello, welcome to Sunday Politics
:38:26. > :38:27.East, I'm Stuart White. Later in the programme,
:38:28. > :38:30.why are we stuck in the slow lane, waiting for trains
:38:31. > :38:35.are sitting in queues of traffic? This is the fastest
:38:36. > :38:40.growing region in the So we need infrastructure that
:38:41. > :38:44.will respond to the number of houses being built and the jobs
:38:45. > :38:47.being created. With us this week,
:38:48. > :38:49.the Conservative MP for North East Bedfordshire, Alistair Burt,
:38:50. > :38:52.a former Foreign Office minister and Health Minister, now
:38:53. > :38:57.on the backbenches. And Cambridgeshire councillor,
:38:58. > :38:59.Lisa Duffy, who came second in the recent
:39:00. > :39:05.Ukip leadership race. Of course, the winner,
:39:06. > :39:08.just a few weeks ago, So there will be
:39:09. > :39:11.another election and the closing date for nominations is
:39:12. > :39:14.the end of this month, with the new We had a tremendous
:39:15. > :39:22.result last time, 25% of the vote share and a huge
:39:23. > :39:25.amount of support. what Diane did in terms
:39:26. > :39:33.of early last in 18 days. But I think this time there will be
:39:34. > :39:36.other people able I do know that Suzanne Evans
:39:37. > :39:42.today has declared she is going to stand for the leadership
:39:43. > :39:45.and I've decided that I will be She's a strong individual,
:39:46. > :39:50.she created our 2015 fully costed manifesto and I know
:39:51. > :39:52.that she and I will work closely together and I'm hoping to play
:39:53. > :39:54.a good part For Ukip, is this joining people
:39:55. > :40:03.together with one ambition, people apart from that of lots
:40:04. > :40:05.of different policies. Are you happy with where
:40:06. > :40:07.she would take Ukip? If we go back and look
:40:08. > :40:14.at the 2015 manifesto, that's certainly
:40:15. > :40:18.the direction we want to
:40:19. > :40:23.continue to go in. We want to make sure
:40:24. > :40:25.there is more investment for the NHS,
:40:26. > :40:27.definitely putting in an extra billion pounds for mental health
:40:28. > :40:30.services, become tough on crime, Suzanne is really talking
:40:31. > :40:37.the language I want to hear from a But according to Stephen Woolf,
:40:38. > :40:40.you are in a death Well, Stephen will say
:40:41. > :40:45.things like that. He's now decided to go and stand
:40:46. > :40:48.as an independent MEP and what I would say is,
:40:49. > :40:51.he wasn't elected to stand as himself, he was elected as Ukip
:40:52. > :40:53.and he should do the honourable thing and stand
:40:54. > :40:56.down and allow what the residents wanted, which was a Ukip
:40:57. > :40:58.person to represent them. We have had a few challengers over
:40:59. > :41:05.the summer, with Nigel are going it was always going to be
:41:06. > :41:08.difficult for the weather was going We've had a blip, but by the end
:41:09. > :41:12.of November, we really will have a good leader, a full NEC
:41:13. > :41:16.and then we will be able to go forward in the New Year
:41:17. > :41:18.ready to take on those Ukip, Alistair, they've been this
:41:19. > :41:21.amalgam of people with different Now you're on the backbenches,
:41:22. > :41:25.you can say what you Yeah, I'm enjoying
:41:26. > :41:31.the opportunity to do this. I've been 24 years connected
:41:32. > :41:33.with our party's front bench one way or another,
:41:34. > :41:35.from Parliamentary private secretary to various opposition jobs
:41:36. > :41:37.for And I've enjoyed every
:41:38. > :41:41.single one of them and I've enjoyed the responsibility, the
:41:42. > :41:42.collective responsibility. But as you get older,
:41:43. > :41:48.you find that you want to say things on more subjects than just
:41:49. > :41:51.your ministerial subject, which is And particularly last year
:41:52. > :41:56.in relation to Syria and Europe I wanted to talk more freely and I've
:41:57. > :41:59.just reached the stage where I can What are the things for your
:42:00. > :42:05.constituents that you haven't been able to talk about that you
:42:06. > :42:08.want to talk about? I think you're always able to talk
:42:09. > :42:12.about your constituency issues and that's not be a particular
:42:13. > :42:14.problem or difficulty. We've got some really good strategic
:42:15. > :42:17.issues coming up in the constituency with new
:42:18. > :42:19.infrastructure plans and a number of It's the fact that there are some
:42:20. > :42:31.interesting things on in the world and in politics generally,
:42:32. > :42:35.that much you love the subject you're given, and I enjoyed health
:42:36. > :42:37.very much and foreign affairs, you want to be engaged
:42:38. > :42:41.a little bit more broadly after so long playing
:42:42. > :42:46.Let's talk about transport and infrastructure.
:42:47. > :42:48.We just mentioned that the roads minister came to
:42:49. > :42:50.Cambridge this week to open a road building Academy.
:42:51. > :42:53.for Greater Anglia started, with the promise of
:42:54. > :42:55.hundreds of new carriages and the national
:42:56. > :42:57.infrastructure commission paid us a visit to find out
:42:58. > :43:01.They have set aside millions of pounds for road and rail schemes.
:43:02. > :43:22.Alongside on the A241, long queues as vehicles
:43:23. > :43:27.Milton Keynes was chosen as the site for a new city back in the 1960s
:43:28. > :43:29.because of its strategic position on the nation's transport
:43:30. > :43:39.Now, that is coming to capacity now, so if we want to
:43:40. > :43:42.continue to have that economic success, we have to upgrade.
:43:43. > :43:44.Over in Cambridge, slow-moving traffic on
:43:45. > :43:47.the road between one place and another, a major East West Link.
:43:48. > :43:52.Traffic levels here have increased by 43%
:43:53. > :43:55.in the last 15 years, but
:43:56. > :43:58.there's other one carriageway in each direction.
:43:59. > :44:00.For rail commuters using Ely station, standing room
:44:01. > :44:04.There is no capacity for extra services and
:44:05. > :44:05.to the junction here is
:44:06. > :44:12.This is the fastest-growing region in the
:44:13. > :44:15.We need infrastructure that well respond to
:44:16. > :44:16.the number of houses that
:44:17. > :44:19.are being built and of course the jobs being created here.
:44:20. > :44:22.Six years ago, I took to the air for the
:44:23. > :44:23.Sunday Politics to look at the infrastructure
:44:24. > :44:26.Our region receives the second lowest amount
:44:27. > :44:27.of public spending in
:44:28. > :44:30.Since then, just one of projects which we featured has been
:44:31. > :44:35.fully delivered, the dualling of the A11 in Suffolk.
:44:36. > :44:38.Of the others, work to improve the A14 in Cambridge has
:44:39. > :44:43.A third river crossing for Lowestoft is
:44:44. > :44:47.still some way off, as are the plans for extra track to speed up trains
:44:48. > :44:50.And a completion date for the East-West Railway link from
:44:51. > :44:54.Oxford to Great Yarmouth seems as far away as ever.
:44:55. > :44:57.The way in which we filmed these pressure points has
:44:58. > :45:00.No need any more rides in helicopters.
:45:01. > :45:05.Across the region, there are calls for millions of
:45:06. > :45:09.pounds to be spent on infrastructure investments.
:45:10. > :45:12.This week, members of the Government's infrastructure
:45:13. > :45:16.commission visited Northamptonshire and Milton Keynes.
:45:17. > :45:19.They are drawing up a list of transport needs for the
:45:20. > :45:20.Chancellor and local councillors and business
:45:21. > :45:21.leaders pushed home the
:45:22. > :45:37.I call it the brain belt of Britain, because
:45:38. > :45:39.quite frankly, we've got to world-class universities at either
:45:40. > :45:42.end, with Oxford and Cambridge, then in the middle, you've got eight
:45:43. > :45:44.growth area to die for Milton Keynes, Bedford,
:45:45. > :45:48.And actually, to connect that up, we need infrastructure that is going to
:45:49. > :45:50.make those two world-renowned universities and world-renowned
:45:51. > :45:58.Improving the A47 is now the top priority,
:45:59. > :46:01.but also very important or dualling schemes on routes like the
:46:02. > :46:04.Trunk roads around Northampton and a string
:46:05. > :46:06.of smaller relief schemes are
:46:07. > :46:11.When it comes to rail, completing the east to west
:46:12. > :46:14.link is top, along with the upgrade of Ely junction and the line through
:46:15. > :46:21.The last Chancellor was a regular visitor to the east, but as
:46:22. > :46:23.his successor understand the needs of the region as well?
:46:24. > :46:25.I understand that Philip Hammond recently told a
:46:26. > :46:27.private gathering that he felt the East had
:46:28. > :46:28.done quite well out of the
:46:29. > :46:30.Government and that our needs were no greater
:46:31. > :46:31.than anywhere else in the
:46:32. > :46:36.Local MPs would I accept that argument.
:46:37. > :46:39.I would say that if you look back over a long, long
:46:40. > :46:43.time, the East has not had enough and what we actually now doing is
:46:44. > :46:46.We've made a compelling case over the past
:46:47. > :46:51.few years for investment in the east, but it's only a start
:46:52. > :46:55.This week, the Government opened a new highways
:46:56. > :47:09.A sign that work on the new link road will soon be getting under way.
:47:10. > :47:13.Progress is slowly being made, but across the region, still dozens of
:47:14. > :47:17.pinch points and demands for road and rail improvements. The region
:47:18. > :47:24.will be closely watching next month's Autumn Statement. Here is
:47:25. > :47:27.the chief executive of Cambridge local enterprise partnership. Have
:47:28. > :47:31.you been given a nod as to what you may get? Not yet, no. We are still a
:47:32. > :47:37.month away from the Autumn Statement and output in a strong case and are
:47:38. > :47:41.waiting to see comes by. As far as you wish list is concerned, there
:47:42. > :47:45.are things on their unit you can't do without, aren't there? We know we
:47:46. > :47:49.are stretched on infrastructure and have road and rail issues. We have
:47:50. > :47:54.eyed infrastructure issues around broadband need tackling in order to
:47:55. > :48:00.accelerate growth. So there are a number of things we must see. Why is
:48:01. > :48:04.that so important? It is about economic growth. We are not the
:48:05. > :48:07.fastest given the region in the country. Cambridge is a fast-growing
:48:08. > :48:12.county and we have have lots of growth. What we run the risk of is
:48:13. > :48:18.seeing it to move away from us in light of the European referendum and
:48:19. > :48:22.other pressures. We may see a existing businesses leave, let alone
:48:23. > :48:27.new ones coming in. A lot of the stuff you want is very expensive.
:48:28. > :48:32.The Government is strapped for cash. We are aware of that. That's a
:48:33. > :48:35.conversation we are having with the Government currently. We've been in
:48:36. > :48:39.the shadow of the North and Midlands for the last five years if not
:48:40. > :48:44.longer. This is about those catching up on delivering growth for the
:48:45. > :48:48.country, moving forward. We've got hot spots, difficult issues to
:48:49. > :48:54.tackle and, you're right, it is expensive. The Cambridgeshire area
:48:55. > :48:59.will be the place where this whole region is regenerated and moves
:49:00. > :49:03.forward, yes? We would certainly take that view, of course. We have
:49:04. > :49:07.significant growth in Cambridge and Peterborough. Two of the
:49:08. > :49:12.fastest-growing cities in the country. You could say is the
:49:13. > :49:16.heartbeat, but I except college in Bedfordshire and Norwich as well. A
:49:17. > :49:19.lot of people around us think it would work if you all worked
:49:20. > :49:25.together, which leads us on to something else. Because many believe
:49:26. > :49:29.devolution will help solve many of the problems. This week, the
:49:30. > :49:31.Secretary of State for local Government came to Cambridge and
:49:32. > :49:36.confirmed plans for an elected mayor for this part of the region will go
:49:37. > :49:41.ahead in May. The Government is committed to this, just as we were
:49:42. > :49:45.before. Nothing has changed. We've heard Theresa May talk about a
:49:46. > :49:46.country that works for everyone and devolution is at the heart of love.
:49:47. > :49:53.The more we can devolve powers to The more we can devolve powers to
:49:54. > :49:57.regions that have directly elected mayors, the more control they can
:49:58. > :50:00.take and make these decisions about skills and transport and
:50:01. > :50:03.infrastructure and investment and decide for themselves what is best
:50:04. > :50:08.for them. One agreeable decide Cambridge will go alone and leave
:50:09. > :50:12.Norfolk and Suffolk out in the cold? A decision has been reached, yes.
:50:13. > :50:18.When you think that is good for the whole region? From our perspective,
:50:19. > :50:25.we were with everyone. It is a manageable scale. A feeling with the
:50:26. > :50:28.business community is having a combination of 23 local authorities
:50:29. > :50:33.with two local enterprise partnerships was a step too far. We
:50:34. > :50:39.work awfully closely with Norfolk and Suffolk similarly with SX and
:50:40. > :50:44.Hertfordshire. It's about working together. There's no way Cambridge
:50:45. > :50:50.can do its own thing. Equally, there is thick -- thick black lines on
:50:51. > :50:57.maps do not exist as far as business communities are aware. Why do you
:50:58. > :51:00.all work together? I think they will. Neil is right and if we were
:51:01. > :51:09.to bring the whole region together, we are not seeing a one size fits
:51:10. > :51:11.all. Devolution sounds fantastic, I'm wholeheartedly behind it. But
:51:12. > :51:45.not behind a directly elected mayor. You bring things to the centre and
:51:46. > :51:48.they worked there for a while and people say you need
:51:49. > :51:50.flexibility and local control so they move out
:51:51. > :51:51.from the centre and a few years later,
:51:52. > :51:54.people say, we need more central And if you look at health for local
:51:55. > :51:58.Government or education, The truth is, structures are
:51:59. > :52:02.important, but much more important relationships between people,
:52:03. > :52:04.decisions and whatever the structure of the authority, and determination
:52:05. > :52:06.to get things done. Sometimes, structural
:52:07. > :52:08.changes can be used as an excuse not to get things done,
:52:09. > :52:11.because why are you going through the structural changes we don't
:52:12. > :52:14.expect anything to happen? Firstly, they've got to be
:52:15. > :52:29.given a chance to work. Devolution is not
:52:30. > :52:30.a It only works if people
:52:31. > :52:35.have decided this is the right structure for us
:52:36. > :52:39.and we can make things happen. What I'm saying is that there
:52:40. > :52:43.are trends and fads and that is the wrong reason
:52:44. > :52:46.to bring things together. I was around when there
:52:47. > :52:55.was a greater Manchester They came, they went,
:52:56. > :52:59.they were put together differently. then give it a long time to work,
:53:00. > :53:04.rather than seeking change. But at the moment,
:53:05. > :53:06.the devolution from the centre of British local
:53:07. > :53:08.Government is a good thing. But it's no easy answer to the big
:53:09. > :53:12.challenges of is there enough money to spread around
:53:13. > :53:15.and how do you make decisions? When we talk to the business
:53:16. > :53:23.community, they make it For the reason Alistair explains, it
:53:24. > :53:28.gives certainty and a clear point of We know we can't solve,
:53:29. > :53:34.for example, the railway line between Peterborough
:53:35. > :53:35.and Ipswich without Suffolk, Cambridgeshire
:53:36. > :53:39.and beyond into the Midlands. From our perspective,
:53:40. > :53:40.a mayor would bring far more clarity on what is most
:53:41. > :53:43.important is certainty and a clear plan of how we will
:53:44. > :53:47.make things happen. I mean, we do just
:53:48. > :53:52.want to work together. I'm very concerned that a directly
:53:53. > :53:54.elected mayor becomes very political and they can,
:53:55. > :53:58.in with an agenda or pressure can be Are you say most people in public
:53:59. > :54:07.life are political and have an But in terms of the
:54:08. > :54:11.infrastructure and investment, I think we are all
:54:12. > :54:14.agreed that we do need that. We do want the growth, broadband
:54:15. > :54:17.especially if we want to grow, certainly in our rural
:54:18. > :54:18.communities, absolutely vital. Devolution absolutely,
:54:19. > :54:23.but I'm very concerned at the directly elected mayor won't
:54:24. > :54:25.quite work. Neil, you are leaving
:54:26. > :54:28.as now, thank you very The new Education Secretary Justine
:54:29. > :54:33.Greening was in Norwich this week, which she has named
:54:34. > :54:35.as an opportunity area. She was an Norwich City College
:54:36. > :54:38.where she answered questions The city will be one of ten pilots
:54:39. > :54:42.to receive ?6 million to raise educational standards
:54:43. > :54:47.and increase social mobility. She told us about a plan to improve
:54:48. > :54:54.I think, in the end, if we are really going
:54:55. > :54:56.to have a country where it doesn't matter where you start,
:54:57. > :54:59.you can make the most of your talents and your potential, then
:55:00. > :55:01.it's going to probably take three things.
:55:02. > :55:04.One, making sure young people of the knowledge and skills
:55:05. > :55:11.needed, the second is them having fantastic experiences as they grow
:55:12. > :55:14.up, whether it is the national citizen's service, and we really
:55:15. > :55:17.want to make sure young people in Norwich get access to that,
:55:18. > :55:20.We do have investment, ?60 million of
:55:21. > :55:23.investment will go into opportunity areas in the first ten that we're
:55:24. > :55:26.And I passionately believe that young people growing up
:55:27. > :55:28.here in Norwich have every much the same
:55:29. > :55:29.talent and potential as
:55:30. > :55:33.And it's vital we leave no stone unturned to
:55:34. > :55:36.find out what it will take to be able to have
:55:37. > :55:38.them aim high and go a
:55:39. > :55:45.I'd like to be able to see some real progress
:55:46. > :55:49.I hope that in terms of education, but also
:55:50. > :55:50.in terms of aspiration and
:55:51. > :55:53.attitudes, we will be able to really start changing them sooner rather
:55:54. > :56:05.Lisa, presumably everybody in Ukip thinks that's a wonderful thing?
:56:06. > :56:08.And I hope it doesn't just stop at Norwich.
:56:09. > :56:10.I think social mobility is a hugely important
:56:11. > :56:15.All our children deserve the best and the best education and the
:56:16. > :56:20.Sometimes it is not just about being in a school,
:56:21. > :56:22.but opportunities in things like UTC,
:56:23. > :56:23.where children can go on and
:56:24. > :56:25.have really good education from the age
:56:26. > :56:29.specialising in certain areas as outside the curriculum.
:56:30. > :56:31.So I welcome this, but I do hope it doesn't just
:56:32. > :56:36.Alistair, is social mobility not as great as we think?
:56:37. > :56:39.Back in the 60s and 70s, everybody thought that everybody
:56:40. > :56:48.There are all sorts of theories and research worked in to
:56:49. > :56:51.this, the expansion of the post-war economy, creating many new
:56:52. > :56:53.opportunities for people and so the ability of people to rise
:56:54. > :56:57.and take the new opportunities, people who
:56:58. > :57:01.hadn't expected to do so in prewar years because of where they were
:57:02. > :57:03.born I what other opportunities were, that expanded.
:57:04. > :57:07.We take for granted the advances that were made.
:57:08. > :57:09.But we are very determined and Justine put
:57:10. > :57:14.We have one and a quarter more children now in a
:57:15. > :57:18.good and outstanding schools, that's a good baseline.
:57:19. > :57:21.In terms of making sure it is spread round, as Lisa
:57:22. > :57:26.mentioned, and as Justine said, this is ?10 million...
:57:27. > :57:30.That doesn't seem a lot, though, does it?
:57:31. > :57:33.No, but if you add up to the other investment is
:57:34. > :57:35.going in areas and specific investment such as that will help
:57:36. > :57:38.and I thought she was very clear on making...
:57:39. > :57:40.The Labour Party safely take away what you're taking away
:57:41. > :57:47.and will be 6 million back and you'll be worse off.
:57:48. > :57:54.Until they can come up with a coherent economic
:57:55. > :57:59.We are rationally delivering the sort of things they used to talk
:58:00. > :58:04.And that is why the importance of good
:58:05. > :58:07.schools for everyone is the heart of what we want to do.
:58:08. > :58:10.And the troubled family scheme, is that reaching the people
:58:11. > :58:14.There's been a difficult report this week, which is
:58:15. > :58:16.only after a year of the troubled families work.
:58:17. > :58:19.It was a piece in The Times, saying this is very
:58:20. > :58:21.premature, there's lots of good work going on.
:58:22. > :58:23.You need to give a scheme like that time.
:58:24. > :58:25.It was right to concentrate on the families who had
:58:26. > :58:27.the greatest difficulties in the background.
:58:28. > :58:28.Anyone who has worked in
:58:29. > :58:31.these areas and seen some of this work done know that you can't leave
:58:32. > :58:34.people alone, you have to be working with them
:58:35. > :58:37.great deal of individual effort to change families
:58:38. > :58:39.and give youngsters, who may see very little home to give
:58:40. > :58:42.them hope and opportunity, they need a lot of care and attention.
:58:43. > :58:44.You agree with all of this, don't you?
:58:45. > :58:46.The Ukip and Tories actually holding hands?
:58:47. > :58:47.Yeah, I think we don't have
:58:48. > :58:51.I think what we're all here for is doing
:58:52. > :58:54.what is right for our residents and the families in our communities.
:58:55. > :58:59.support anything that will do that and help certainly the most
:59:00. > :59:01.vulnerable in our communities and as a counsellor,
:59:02. > :59:07.And if that comes from the Tories, Ukip or Labour, let us make it
:59:08. > :59:10.happen at work for the residents rather than just be a tick box for
:59:11. > :59:14.You can't force people to be socially mobile,
:59:15. > :59:18.No, but you can give people opportunity.
:59:19. > :59:20.And once the opportunities are there, you can
:59:21. > :59:22.encourage them and they see how well others do, behaviour breeds
:59:23. > :59:25.behaviour and without opportunity, people will stifle and we won't have
:59:26. > :59:35.a home-grown talent pool and that is so, so important.
:59:36. > :59:39.There are outstanding examples already.
:59:40. > :59:42.Patrick McLaughlin, Sadiq Khan, from his background to the Mayor of
:59:43. > :59:50.Wherever you look, we are a great meritocracy.
:59:51. > :59:55.Now our political round-up of the week in 60 seconds.
:59:56. > :59:59.Flying the flag for our energy industry.
:00:00. > :00:00.Leaders of energy firms met with politicians at
:00:01. > :00:04.Westminster to lobby for development here.
:00:05. > :00:08.There are opportunities, but
:00:09. > :00:12.at the same time we must recognise that with lower oil and gas prices,
:00:13. > :00:14.there are real challenges in the industry as well.
:00:15. > :00:15.Three Premiership footballers are backing a
:00:16. > :00:23.The idea is to have social and affordable housing
:00:24. > :00:24.built around the state of
:00:25. > :00:28.And there's ?1 million heading for a parish
:00:29. > :00:32.A horde of old munitions and toxic waste has been found in a playing
:00:33. > :00:35.The council has been left to clean it up,
:00:36. > :00:38.although the land used to belong to the Ministry of
:00:39. > :00:42.Because of the bombs that have been found, there's a massive
:00:43. > :00:44.increased risk and we've been given a potential bill of another ?840,000
:00:45. > :00:53.And the MP for Wellingborough was uncharacteristically lost for words
:00:54. > :00:59.when Theresa May gave his wife some birthday advice.
:01:00. > :01:01.I must say to my honourable friend, I'm very happy to
:01:02. > :01:03.wish him a very happy birthday today.
:01:04. > :01:07.I hope his wife is going to treat the
:01:08. > :01:28.So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances
:01:29. > :01:51.With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic
:01:52. > :01:57.State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure
:01:58. > :02:06.in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of
:02:07. > :02:09.Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But
:02:10. > :02:14.curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being
:02:15. > :02:19.driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous
:02:20. > :02:25.here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a
:02:26. > :02:30.government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing
:02:31. > :02:35.Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda
:02:36. > :02:44.around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You smash them somewhere, and they pop
:02:45. > :02:51.up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go
:02:52. > :03:00.somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic
:03:01. > :03:05.oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign
:03:06. > :03:13.fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,
:03:14. > :03:16.to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn
:03:17. > :03:21.that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,
:03:22. > :03:26.with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,
:03:27. > :03:32.if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,
:03:33. > :03:36.that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We
:03:37. > :03:47.knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was
:03:48. > :03:53.categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and
:03:54. > :03:59.categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take
:04:00. > :04:03.tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to
:04:04. > :04:08.fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by
:04:09. > :04:12.that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was
:04:13. > :04:17.intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically
:04:18. > :04:22.imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she
:04:23. > :04:27.cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy
:04:28. > :04:32.are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much
:04:33. > :04:35.leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think
:04:36. > :04:42.it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it
:04:43. > :04:49.is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because
:04:50. > :04:52.Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow
:04:53. > :04:56.Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in
:04:57. > :05:00.the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of
:05:01. > :05:01.people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear
:05:02. > :05:05.what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important
:05:06. > :05:08.for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two
:05:09. > :05:11.years provided for by Article 50 to negotiate both our withdrawal
:05:12. > :05:14.agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,
:05:15. > :05:15.including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,
:05:16. > :05:17.in financial services, that it should tell the House
:05:18. > :05:20.of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement
:05:21. > :05:32.with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end
:05:33. > :05:38.of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an
:05:39. > :05:43.interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade
:05:44. > :05:46.Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15
:05:47. > :05:50.negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future
:05:51. > :05:55.trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible
:05:56. > :06:00.that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a
:06:01. > :06:13.trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are
:06:14. > :06:15.outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important
:06:16. > :06:17.thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely
:06:18. > :06:23.essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now
:06:24. > :06:32.it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part
:06:33. > :06:37.of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a
:06:38. > :06:41.progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade
:06:42. > :06:46.deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all
:06:47. > :06:50.of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope
:06:51. > :06:55.it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will
:06:56. > :07:05.hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we
:07:06. > :07:08.have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is
:07:09. > :07:11.interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls
:07:12. > :07:15.there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now
:07:16. > :07:20.saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single
:07:21. > :07:24.market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,
:07:25. > :07:29.as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a
:07:30. > :07:34.year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income
:07:35. > :07:46.we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public
:07:47. > :07:48.opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but
:07:49. > :07:54.this isn't a price worth paying. Everything tends to be seen through
:07:55. > :08:00.the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.
:08:01. > :08:04.The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free
:08:05. > :08:08.trade between the EU and Canada, and therefore subject to the
:08:09. > :08:13.ratification of all members. Any deal we do will not give us the same
:08:14. > :08:18.access we have at the moment. The question is, how much will it be
:08:19. > :08:23.diminished? It may not be subject to the same ratification process.
:08:24. > :08:29.Absolutely right. Another unbelievably technical point that we
:08:30. > :08:34.still don't know is, if we can get this free-trade deal with the EU at
:08:35. > :08:41.the same time as our Brexit talks and deal, the divorce deal as well
:08:42. > :08:51.as the remarriage deal, then one gets signed off by QM V. The trade
:08:52. > :08:56.deal may still need all 28, all 27, including the people from the
:08:57. > :09:01.Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority of parliament. This is exactly why
:09:02. > :09:05.Theresa May would like the transitional deal to push this one
:09:06. > :09:09.deeper. I was surprised to hear Hilary Benn pushing this line this
:09:10. > :09:13.morning. The remainers have been all over the place. They wanted a vote
:09:14. > :09:18.after Article 50 had been triggered about the deal. Then they wanted a
:09:19. > :09:26.vote before Article 50. Now they are talking about a vote before article
:09:27. > :09:31.Article 50 is triggered about a trade deal. They need to make up
:09:32. > :09:35.their minds about what it is they are pushing for, and what their best
:09:36. > :09:41.hope of obstructing Brexit is, and stick with it. Something else we see
:09:42. > :09:45.through the Brexit lens, which isn't always helpful, is Calais. The
:09:46. > :09:51.French bulldozers will move in tomorrow. We will see some pretty
:09:52. > :09:55.disturbing scenes on the TV. We will see some horrible scenes. The
:09:56. > :10:00.government has handled this very badly. Having passed an amendment in
:10:01. > :10:04.April saying we would take something like 3000 children, a lot of those
:10:05. > :10:08.children have disappeared. Save the Children, one of the charities
:10:09. > :10:17.there, are very worried that people traffickers have been in there, and
:10:18. > :10:19.a lot of those children have vanished. We haven't sent social
:10:20. > :10:26.workers in. No preparations have been made what ever. You are raising
:10:27. > :10:31.an interesting point. We don't know how many we are meant to be taking.
:10:32. > :10:38.The huge argument has arisen over what the age is of some of the ones
:10:39. > :10:43.coming in. Is this another problem for the Home Office? To some extent.
:10:44. > :10:47.Didn't Theresa May 's too well to survive six weeks of this? Amber
:10:48. > :10:52.Rudd has been there for three months. It is clear that the Home
:10:53. > :10:59.Office didn't prepare for this. They didn't prepare for the age
:11:00. > :11:04.verification or when it will go. It needs to be an perfect. We don't
:11:05. > :11:10.know how many we will take, because the Home Office will not say. I want
:11:11. > :11:14.to talk about airport capacity, but I won't, because I don't think we
:11:15. > :11:18.have anything to say about it until the statement on Tuesday from
:11:19. > :11:22.Transport Minister Grayling. When you look at the polls and see the
:11:23. > :11:27.decision on airport runway expansion being kicked into the long grass for
:11:28. > :11:31.a year, are we heading for an early election next year or not? I think
:11:32. > :11:37.Theresa May will do everything she can to avoid it. If there is an
:11:38. > :11:43.election before 2020, it is bound to be about Europe, and that is a much
:11:44. > :11:47.harder case for her to win than just a question of who is the best Prime
:11:48. > :11:52.Minister. She will have a tough time, because it will be a general
:11:53. > :11:57.election about in or out of the single market. Half of her party
:11:58. > :12:02.will peel away. How do she conduct a general election when the likes of
:12:03. > :12:07.Anna Soubry will not stand on the same platform? It will be difficult.
:12:08. > :12:15.But she may reach such a stalemate that she just calls one. No general
:12:16. > :12:19.election next year because it will split the Tory party. There will be
:12:20. > :12:23.won in 2019 when she cannot get Brexit through the House of Commons.
:12:24. > :12:28.You really can have too much of a good thing. I just want to show a
:12:29. > :12:34.little clip of the former Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly
:12:35. > :12:40.last night. Let's just watch this. There he is.
:12:41. > :12:48.Where is the hand? That is the worrying bit! We will no longer be
:12:49. > :12:56.saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair of hands! Can we agree on that?
:12:57. > :13:04.Remarkable that he was once the man most feared by David Cameron! Labour
:13:05. > :13:12.leader 2021. He has hit popular culture in the way that many few
:13:13. > :13:16.politicians do. Charm, gusto, bravery, no worries about being
:13:17. > :13:22.embarrassed. All the things that you don't like about being a politician.
:13:23. > :13:25.We have run out of time. You can get it on social media.
:13:26. > :13:27.Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics tomorrow
:13:28. > :13:31.And I'll be back here next Sunday at the same time.
:13:32. > :14:05.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:06. > :14:07.Everyone's living these amazing lives,
:14:08. > :14:18.You're like a... Different person?
:14:19. > :14:27.Delve deeper. Ordinary Lives continues...
:14:28. > :14:28.They have something on me that I can actually remember.
:14:29. > :14:32.They have something on me that I can actually remember.
:14:33. > :14:37.The final chapter between Gibson and Spector.