:00:34. > :00:36.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:37. > :00:40.She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,
:00:41. > :00:53.After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.
:00:54. > :00:55.With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,
:00:56. > :01:00.Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.
:01:01. > :01:03.NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission
:01:04. > :01:07.impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,
:01:08. > :01:10.unless hospitals are given more cash this year.
:01:11. > :01:15.Here in the East: Providers joins me live.
:01:16. > :01:18.will businesses in our region take off or will they be grounded
:01:19. > :01:25.after we move closer to leaving the EU?
:01:26. > :01:35.All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking
:01:36. > :01:38.to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg
:01:39. > :01:40.from his party's spring conference in York.
:01:41. > :01:45.With me here in the studio, throughout the programme,
:01:46. > :01:47.three of the country's top political commentators:
:01:48. > :01:53.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.
:01:54. > :01:54.They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp.
:01:55. > :01:58.So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up.
:01:59. > :02:03.As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU,
:02:04. > :02:07.the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum
:02:08. > :02:11.on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts
:02:12. > :02:14.to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key
:02:15. > :02:19.budget measure just one week after announcing it.
:02:20. > :02:21.Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week
:02:22. > :02:38.Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First
:02:39. > :02:39.Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise.
:02:40. > :02:42.She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK
:02:43. > :02:46.By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's
:02:47. > :02:49.future will be decided, not just by me, the
:02:50. > :02:50.Scottish Government, or the
:02:51. > :02:52.SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland.
:02:53. > :03:02.Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject
:03:03. > :03:06.amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to
:03:07. > :03:20.The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned
:03:21. > :03:22.attempts to change it and it becomes law.
:03:23. > :03:28.But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected.
:03:29. > :03:31.Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon.
:03:32. > :03:47.We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the
:03:48. > :03:49.We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling
:03:50. > :04:00.the planned rise in National Insurance for
:04:01. > :04:02.the self-employed announced the budget.
:04:03. > :04:04.It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon.
:04:05. > :04:06.The trend towards greater self-employment does create a
:04:07. > :04:09.We will bring forward further proposals
:04:10. > :04:11.but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this
:04:12. > :04:16.It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here.
:04:17. > :04:18.By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues
:04:19. > :04:22.fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax
:04:23. > :04:32.Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the
:04:33. > :04:34.Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending
:04:35. > :04:37.But that's not what the Prime Minister
:04:38. > :04:43.Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a
:04:44. > :04:48.We should be working together, not pulling apart.
:04:49. > :04:50.We should be working together to get that
:04:51. > :04:51.right deal for Scotland, that
:04:52. > :04:56.So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and
:04:57. > :05:00.so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time.
:05:01. > :05:02.Friday and time for the faithful to gather.
:05:03. > :05:03.SNP activists at their spring conference
:05:04. > :05:14.Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister
:05:15. > :05:18.promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain.
:05:19. > :05:20.At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly
:05:21. > :05:27.I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The
:05:28. > :05:29.Evening Standard and, you know, with so many
:05:30. > :05:30.big issues in our world what
:05:31. > :05:36.good analysis, great news journalism.
:05:37. > :05:41.It's a really important time for good journalism that The
:05:42. > :05:42.Evening Standard is going to provide.
:05:43. > :05:49.There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals
:05:50. > :05:55.Under my proposals we keep the Barnett
:05:56. > :05:58.Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the
:05:59. > :06:03.and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament.
:06:04. > :06:05.And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the
:06:06. > :06:23.What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government,
:06:24. > :06:27.Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign
:06:28. > :06:30.of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the
:06:31. > :06:38.events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with
:06:39. > :06:42.the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy
:06:43. > :06:47.periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and
:06:48. > :06:52.try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable.
:06:53. > :06:56.Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or
:06:57. > :07:00.so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily
:07:01. > :07:04.the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel
:07:05. > :07:07.more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential
:07:08. > :07:11.drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your
:07:12. > :07:16.original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic
:07:17. > :07:20.quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory
:07:21. > :07:24.backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school
:07:25. > :07:28.funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will
:07:29. > :07:32.get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on.
:07:33. > :07:37.Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister
:07:38. > :07:42.said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime
:07:43. > :07:46.Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done
:07:47. > :07:51.quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in
:07:52. > :07:54.frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said,
:07:55. > :07:58.OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has
:07:59. > :08:01.already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with
:08:02. > :08:05.Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle
:08:06. > :08:11.for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality
:08:12. > :08:14.bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same
:08:15. > :08:17.time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge
:08:18. > :08:24.to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and
:08:25. > :08:30.Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it
:08:31. > :08:36.reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is
:08:37. > :08:39.over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is
:08:40. > :08:42.how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is
:08:43. > :08:45.not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a
:08:46. > :08:50.normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more
:08:51. > :08:55.mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible
:08:56. > :08:58.workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to
:08:59. > :09:03.call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she
:09:04. > :09:07.tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a
:09:08. > :09:11.second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the
:09:12. > :09:14.rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this
:09:15. > :09:19.week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to
:09:20. > :09:23.her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She
:09:24. > :09:27.expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for
:09:28. > :09:33.her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows
:09:34. > :09:39.66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off
:09:40. > :09:43.with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second
:09:44. > :09:46.referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined
:09:47. > :09:49.with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her
:09:50. > :09:54.calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead,
:09:55. > :09:58.I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your
:09:59. > :10:02.desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a
:10:03. > :10:06.fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak
:10:07. > :10:11.opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most
:10:12. > :10:16.daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I
:10:17. > :10:19.think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an
:10:20. > :10:22.election. I don't think she has thought about how you would
:10:23. > :10:26.manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the
:10:27. > :10:32.energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning
:10:33. > :10:37.the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the
:10:38. > :10:40.small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do.
:10:41. > :10:44.Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be
:10:45. > :10:48.difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of
:10:49. > :10:52.going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't
:10:53. > :10:56.and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which
:10:57. > :10:59.is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as
:11:00. > :11:02.commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but
:11:03. > :11:07.they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in
:11:08. > :11:10.unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because
:11:11. > :11:13.she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through
:11:14. > :11:17.Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an
:11:18. > :11:21.early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write
:11:22. > :11:26.a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's
:11:27. > :11:30.box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections.
:11:31. > :11:34.The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may
:11:35. > :11:38.replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an
:11:39. > :11:42.election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself
:11:43. > :11:43.you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall
:11:44. > :11:45.see. So if Theresa May did go
:11:46. > :11:48.for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns
:11:49. > :11:58.and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we
:11:59. > :12:01.have just been talking about, executed one of the most
:12:02. > :12:05.embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a
:12:06. > :12:08.torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still
:12:09. > :12:13.so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an
:12:14. > :12:16.early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing
:12:17. > :12:20.ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that
:12:21. > :12:25.we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only
:12:26. > :12:31.challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative
:12:32. > :12:37.for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So,
:12:38. > :12:40.would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't
:12:41. > :12:43.want this government to be in power so of course if there is an
:12:44. > :12:47.opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a
:12:48. > :12:52.better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course
:12:53. > :12:57.we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote
:12:58. > :13:01.in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an
:13:02. > :13:05.opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in
:13:06. > :13:09.government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with
:13:10. > :13:13.the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very
:13:14. > :13:16.seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but
:13:17. > :13:21.would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to
:13:22. > :13:24.be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to
:13:25. > :13:28.bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the
:13:29. > :13:33.British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together
:13:34. > :13:37.Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a
:13:38. > :13:41.General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance
:13:42. > :13:45.of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an
:13:46. > :13:49.early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election?
:13:50. > :13:53.It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to
:13:54. > :13:56.dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories
:13:57. > :14:01.in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that
:14:02. > :14:03.opportunity to put that case to the British people.
:14:04. > :14:12.Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all
:14:13. > :14:14.but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one?
:14:15. > :14:18.How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of
:14:19. > :14:22.money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the
:14:23. > :14:27.Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it
:14:28. > :14:35.inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to
:14:36. > :14:40.build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We
:14:41. > :14:44.have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are
:14:45. > :14:48.taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian
:14:49. > :14:51.Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the
:14:52. > :14:55.Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the
:14:56. > :14:59.support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the
:15:00. > :15:03.electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready
:15:04. > :15:07.for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got
:15:08. > :15:12.your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the
:15:13. > :15:17.shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if
:15:18. > :15:20.there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these
:15:21. > :15:25.things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its
:15:26. > :15:30.annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates
:15:31. > :15:33.policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last
:15:34. > :15:37.Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a
:15:38. > :15:42.fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much
:15:43. > :15:47.extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going
:15:48. > :15:50.to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called.
:15:51. > :15:55.I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We
:15:56. > :16:01.have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out
:16:02. > :16:04.Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there
:16:05. > :16:08.hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war
:16:09. > :16:14.footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that,
:16:15. > :16:19.can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under
:16:20. > :16:25.a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have.
:16:26. > :16:28.And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an
:16:29. > :16:33.election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th
:16:34. > :16:38.of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't
:16:39. > :16:43.having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy
:16:44. > :16:47.development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think
:16:48. > :16:51.you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll
:16:52. > :16:56.ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the
:16:57. > :17:00.Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in
:17:01. > :17:04.safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long
:17:05. > :17:09.does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the
:17:10. > :17:13.Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour
:17:14. > :17:17.Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party
:17:18. > :17:24.merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in
:17:25. > :17:29.case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be
:17:30. > :17:33.talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation
:17:34. > :17:37.about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually
:17:38. > :17:41.for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting
:17:42. > :17:44.with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the
:17:45. > :17:50.prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally,
:17:51. > :17:54.given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its
:17:55. > :17:58.mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be
:17:59. > :18:04.about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17
:18:05. > :18:08.behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as
:18:09. > :18:11.an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you
:18:12. > :18:17.still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn?
:18:18. > :18:25.These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was
:18:26. > :18:29.settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years.
:18:30. > :18:33.Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it
:18:34. > :18:39.is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it
:18:40. > :18:43.is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will
:18:44. > :18:48.you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future
:18:49. > :18:57.looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds,
:18:58. > :18:59.where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit
:19:00. > :19:02.cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make
:19:03. > :19:05.sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to
:19:06. > :19:08.fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to
:19:09. > :19:15.make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour
:19:16. > :19:21.returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us.
:19:22. > :19:23.And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring
:19:24. > :19:25.conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.
:19:26. > :19:34.Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps
:19:35. > :19:39.Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In
:19:40. > :19:48.what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not
:19:49. > :19:53.saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim
:19:54. > :19:57.Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware
:19:58. > :20:04.what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was
:20:05. > :20:10.arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound
:20:11. > :20:15.supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as
:20:16. > :20:20.Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so
:20:21. > :20:23.ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit,
:20:24. > :20:28.Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more
:20:29. > :20:32.isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach
:20:33. > :20:38.that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans
:20:39. > :20:46.to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,
:20:47. > :20:52.Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU,
:20:53. > :20:56.nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In
:20:57. > :21:02.what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has
:21:03. > :21:07.interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote
:21:08. > :21:12.you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over
:21:13. > :21:16.the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have
:21:17. > :21:21.to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was
:21:22. > :21:26.in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not
:21:27. > :21:32.right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we
:21:33. > :21:38.have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald
:21:39. > :21:43.Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different
:21:44. > :21:49.view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not
:21:50. > :21:55.antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not
:21:56. > :21:58.aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the
:21:59. > :22:05.British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by
:22:06. > :22:13.choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing
:22:14. > :22:17.so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self
:22:18. > :22:20.harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the
:22:21. > :22:25.threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so
:22:26. > :22:30.ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view
:22:31. > :22:39.speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not
:22:40. > :22:43.challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs
:22:44. > :22:48.that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring
:22:49. > :22:53.conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long
:22:54. > :22:58.time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a
:22:59. > :23:03.realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards
:23:04. > :23:10.that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a
:23:11. > :23:14.realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want
:23:15. > :23:19.that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the
:23:20. > :23:24.recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People
:23:25. > :23:28.often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election
:23:29. > :23:33.we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we
:23:34. > :23:41.have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in
:23:42. > :23:48.Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way
:23:49. > :23:56.seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted
:23:57. > :24:00.for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling
:24:01. > :24:03.increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party
:24:04. > :24:07.because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable
:24:08. > :24:14.from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk
:24:15. > :24:18.on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite
:24:19. > :24:22.them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across
:24:23. > :24:27.parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster
:24:28. > :24:31.village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky,
:24:32. > :24:34.inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people
:24:35. > :24:46.on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the
:24:47. > :24:51.ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence
:24:52. > :24:55.to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be
:24:56. > :25:04.thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we
:25:05. > :25:08.are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the
:25:09. > :25:12.referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated
:25:13. > :25:16.ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something
:25:17. > :25:21.unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can
:25:22. > :25:32.guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the
:25:33. > :25:37.British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work
:25:38. > :25:41.out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she
:25:42. > :25:48.will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new
:25:49. > :25:52.trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of
:25:53. > :25:57.that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there
:25:58. > :26:02.will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use
:26:03. > :26:09.this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling
:26:10. > :26:13.back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or
:26:14. > :26:18.thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were
:26:19. > :26:24.promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this
:26:25. > :26:28.glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the
:26:29. > :26:32.world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of
:26:33. > :26:36.years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to
:26:37. > :26:41.take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of
:26:42. > :26:48.quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always
:26:49. > :26:55.welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is
:26:56. > :26:57.certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you
:26:58. > :27:04.spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or
:27:05. > :27:11.spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper
:27:12. > :27:19.editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's
:27:20. > :27:24.feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law
:27:25. > :27:29.against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will
:27:30. > :27:36.again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also
:27:37. > :27:40.wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in
:27:41. > :27:45.the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his
:27:46. > :27:51.self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on
:27:52. > :27:54.a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you
:27:55. > :27:59.will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us.
:28:00. > :28:01.Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been
:28:02. > :28:04.warning the health service needs more money to help it meet
:28:05. > :28:07.But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered
:28:08. > :28:09.no immediate relief, and today the head of
:28:10. > :28:11.the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds
:28:12. > :28:14.of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency
:28:15. > :28:16.care and planned operations, unless the Government
:28:17. > :28:23.Warnings over funding are not exactly new.
:28:24. > :28:26.Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens,
:28:27. > :28:31.published his plan for the future of the health service.
:28:32. > :28:34.In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England
:28:35. > :28:37.would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020.
:28:38. > :28:40.To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money
:28:41. > :28:43.from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra,
:28:44. > :28:46.and that the health service could account for the rest by making
:28:47. > :28:53.The Government says it's given the health service more than what it
:28:54. > :28:56.asked for, and that NHS in England will have received
:28:57. > :29:01.That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair
:29:02. > :29:03.of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more
:29:04. > :29:07.like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget
:29:08. > :29:12.have been cut, putting pressure on the front line.
:29:13. > :29:16.Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished
:29:17. > :29:18.the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts
:29:19. > :29:20.from the Government, the NHS is likely to record
:29:21. > :29:25.Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A
:29:26. > :29:28.departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being
:29:29. > :29:35.This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care
:29:36. > :29:39.but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn
:29:40. > :29:42.that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked
:29:43. > :29:48.And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS
:29:49. > :29:53.Providers in England, Chris Hopson.
:29:54. > :30:00.Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra
:30:01. > :30:05.money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part
:30:06. > :30:08.of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a
:30:09. > :30:14.bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so
:30:15. > :30:17.on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18
:30:18. > :30:20.billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising
:30:21. > :30:24.more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that
:30:25. > :30:29.is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS
:30:30. > :30:34.knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are
:30:35. > :30:40.somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020.
:30:41. > :30:49.Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22
:30:50. > :30:53.billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year
:30:54. > :30:59.and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25
:31:00. > :31:03.billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the
:31:04. > :31:07.2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to
:31:08. > :31:12.which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period
:31:13. > :31:16.and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen
:31:17. > :31:22.before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come
:31:23. > :31:26.onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some
:31:27. > :31:30.extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument
:31:31. > :31:35.about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this
:31:36. > :31:39.extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years?
:31:40. > :31:44.Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward
:31:45. > :31:48.view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the
:31:49. > :31:51.centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms
:31:52. > :31:55.length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was
:31:56. > :31:59.consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that
:32:00. > :32:05.the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS
:32:06. > :32:09.where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every
:32:10. > :32:12.year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able
:32:13. > :32:18.to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding
:32:19. > :32:23.increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release
:32:24. > :32:28.we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would
:32:29. > :32:34.not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in
:32:35. > :32:37.other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts
:32:38. > :32:42.Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for.
:32:43. > :32:49.Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you.
:32:50. > :32:52.How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we
:32:53. > :32:56.estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you
:32:57. > :33:01.clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour
:33:02. > :33:05.A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and
:33:06. > :33:10.operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900
:33:11. > :33:15.million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you
:33:16. > :33:19.would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of
:33:20. > :33:23.those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion
:33:24. > :33:28.on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5
:33:29. > :33:30.billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is
:33:31. > :33:36.important we should make an important distinction about the NHS
:33:37. > :33:40.versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour
:33:41. > :33:44.government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return
:33:45. > :33:48.for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution,
:33:49. > :33:53.the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery
:33:54. > :33:57.we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would
:33:58. > :34:00.want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for
:34:01. > :34:05.it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest
:34:06. > :34:09.financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going
:34:10. > :34:14.up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand
:34:15. > :34:19.go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I
:34:20. > :34:23.think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going
:34:24. > :34:27.to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I
:34:28. > :34:32.think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS
:34:33. > :34:36.as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have
:34:37. > :34:41.got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36
:34:42. > :34:46.office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to
:34:47. > :34:51.1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know
:34:52. > :34:56.in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the
:34:57. > :34:59.last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement
:35:00. > :35:06.gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25
:35:07. > :35:10.billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But
:35:11. > :35:12.having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where
:35:13. > :35:19.there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it
:35:20. > :35:23.for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its
:35:24. > :35:26.contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as
:35:27. > :35:32.efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for
:35:33. > :35:35.you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise
:35:36. > :35:40.those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would
:35:41. > :35:43.go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a
:35:44. > :35:47.deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the
:35:48. > :35:52.moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release
:35:53. > :36:04.land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts
:36:05. > :36:05.which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous
:36:06. > :36:08.organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales.
:36:09. > :36:08.Have you raised that with the government?
:36:09. > :36:20.Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard
:36:21. > :36:25.somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big
:36:26. > :36:29.salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for
:36:30. > :36:32.the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more
:36:33. > :36:36.money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being
:36:37. > :36:41.properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And
:36:42. > :36:49.yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in
:36:50. > :36:51.a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I
:36:52. > :36:54.have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight
:36:55. > :36:57.in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community,
:36:58. > :37:00.mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most
:37:01. > :37:05.complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to
:37:06. > :37:08.be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we
:37:09. > :37:12.should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid
:37:13. > :37:17.are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion
:37:18. > :37:25.a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There
:37:26. > :37:28.was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the
:37:29. > :37:32.problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need
:37:33. > :37:35.and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having
:37:36. > :37:40.to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem
:37:41. > :37:46.and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those
:37:47. > :37:50.amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas
:37:51. > :37:55.is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you
:37:56. > :37:58.could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication,
:37:59. > :38:03.what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government
:38:04. > :38:08.has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing
:38:09. > :38:12.funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can
:38:13. > :38:17.I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the
:38:18. > :38:23.first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we
:38:24. > :38:28.can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work
:38:29. > :38:32.in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very
:38:33. > :38:35.important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the
:38:36. > :38:39.financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being
:38:40. > :38:43.asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of
:38:44. > :38:44.time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me.
:38:45. > :38:46.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:47. > :38:49.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:50. > :39:06.In the programme - on the road to leaving the EU
:39:07. > :39:08.as the bill becomes law, we'll see what lies
:39:09. > :39:14.We speak to the MP leading the charge against some
:39:15. > :39:24.It does fall upon the Conservative parliamentary party to actually
:39:25. > :39:26.go through everything in detail and provide a
:39:27. > :39:28.holding the Government to account type of organisation
:39:29. > :39:35.because the opposition are not doing that.
:39:36. > :39:40.With me this week, Kelvin Hopkins the Labour MP for Luton North
:39:41. > :39:41.and James Cartilage, the Conservative MP
:39:42. > :39:46.But let's start with local lotteries, a new way for councils
:39:47. > :39:51.Local authorities who have seen their Government funding cut
:39:52. > :39:54.by 40% since 2010 were given the powers to set up their own
:39:55. > :40:00.The first in the country was set up last year in Buckinghamshire.
:40:01. > :40:03.Now, there are plans for a growing number of council lotteries
:40:04. > :40:04.across the region, in places including Daventry,
:40:05. > :40:07.Kings Lane, Corby, Peterborough and across Essex.
:40:08. > :40:16.Cooking up skills for the future, the Teamwork Trust in Corby offers
:40:17. > :40:18.classes like this for people with learning difficulties
:40:19. > :40:24.As some pots of grant funding have been cut,
:40:25. > :40:27.they have signed up to benefit from a new lottery run
:40:28. > :40:34.To find funding that makes a difference to general day-to-day
:40:35. > :40:38.opportunities we give our members, we have...
:40:39. > :40:47.We find ourselves doing more and more bids.
:40:48. > :40:49.The opportunity that the lottery gives us will help significantly.
:40:50. > :40:52.It is hoped in the Corby lottery will raise ?20,000 a year for local
:40:53. > :40:56.That is around one tenth of the amount the local borough
:40:57. > :41:01.The council insists this is not to replace grant funding.
:41:02. > :41:09.We do have a considerable amount we give out in small grants,
:41:10. > :41:11.but helping organisations receive more is a good thing to do.
:41:12. > :41:17.Regardless of local authorities having less and less money,
:41:18. > :41:21.This is about supporting our local community.
:41:22. > :41:26.Others warn about becoming reliant on lottery funding.
:41:27. > :41:28.The thing about a lottery, of course, it is dependent
:41:29. > :41:32.If it completely replaces grant funding, I think
:41:33. > :41:38.If it is additional to grant funding, fantastic.
:41:39. > :41:41.I think the reality is, it is replacing a large part
:41:42. > :41:43.of grant funding because the money just isn't available any more.
:41:44. > :41:46.At least the voluntary sector will have access to funding.
:41:47. > :41:49.Tickets will be sold online and cost ?1.
:41:50. > :41:57.Another 20p will go towards admin and VAT.
:41:58. > :42:04.The Corby lottery still needs approval
:42:05. > :42:10.But people here seem keen on taking part for a ?25,000 jackpot.
:42:11. > :42:12.Better than the National Lottery, because I think the National Lottery
:42:13. > :42:23.If it goes towards good causes locally, excellent.
:42:24. > :42:25.It is a good idea, will they reduce my council tax?
:42:26. > :42:29.No, there is no council tax reduction if you play.
:42:30. > :42:31.There you go, then, so I wouldn't play it.
:42:32. > :42:40.The fact that most of us go to things around here
:42:41. > :42:42.to help local stuff, it is absolutely great.
:42:43. > :42:43.There was also enthusiasm in Buckinghamshire.
:42:44. > :42:48.Aylesbury Vale District Council was the first in the country
:42:49. > :42:50.to launch a lottery and raised ?70,000 for good
:42:51. > :42:55.It is a winner for the good causes, naturally.
:42:56. > :42:58.It is a winner for the council, because it shows that they are
:42:59. > :43:00.taking seriously the loss in Government grants
:43:01. > :43:04.Who quite often can be perhaps the first port of call
:43:05. > :43:09.For now, lottery income will be just another ingredient when it comes
:43:10. > :43:14.But it will become more important as council budgets continue
:43:15. > :43:21.Kelvin Hopkins, if it puts money into good causes,
:43:22. > :43:26.Well, it is a relatively small amount.
:43:27. > :43:29.But it is really about the savage cuts in funding for local
:43:30. > :43:31.authorities, from central Government under six years of George
:43:32. > :43:38.Whatever they say, that is what it is really about.
:43:39. > :43:42.I think local authorities have suffered terribly from underfunding
:43:43. > :43:45.from central Government and we have to restore that so that they provide
:43:46. > :43:51.I think if we are going to make money we ought to consciously vote
:43:52. > :43:56.for the monies that is going to be spent and raised.
:43:57. > :43:59.So we pay our taxes, and those who are better off pay most,
:44:00. > :44:05.Lotteries tend to be played by people who are on low incomes.
:44:06. > :44:12.Even in the National Lottery, which supports our Olympic
:44:13. > :44:14.athletes and whatever, even there it tends
:44:15. > :44:17.to redistribute from the less better off to the better off
:44:18. > :44:19.because the better off would pay higher taxes.
:44:20. > :44:21.Otherwise, the poor substitute that cash by playing the lotteries.
:44:22. > :44:24.The answer is to put more money into our local
:44:25. > :44:34.To be clear, is about I think discretionary sums of money.
:44:35. > :44:45.It can be a huge amount of money if you are on a low income
:44:46. > :44:48.and you are putting money into that that you can't really afford to do.
:44:49. > :44:52.I think people who do are people who are going to be able
:44:53. > :44:59.The point is, if a local authority chooses to raise funds for charities
:45:00. > :45:01.and some good causes that we saw in your piece, I think
:45:02. > :45:04.It is a good example of local innovation.
:45:05. > :45:08.You worried that actually you may think it is going to a charity that
:45:09. > :45:11.you would like to support but it is up to somebody
:45:12. > :45:14.on the council who will decide whether the money goes?
:45:15. > :45:16.And it may not go where you want it to go?
:45:17. > :45:18.Think people responding in the piece were happy
:45:19. > :45:21.that it was going to something in their area.
:45:22. > :45:23.I don't think they expect to have an absolute say
:45:24. > :45:26.They said, it is supporting my local community.
:45:27. > :45:28.I think that is attractive as a prospect.
:45:29. > :45:31.I suppose the problem is if the lottery doesn't have money
:45:32. > :45:34.to give to these charities and good causes, and the money dries up?
:45:35. > :45:37.One problem I think is that there is only a certain amount of money
:45:38. > :45:39.available for putting into lotteries and it might just be
:45:40. > :45:42.that the National Lottery will lose a bit to local lotteries.
:45:43. > :45:44.But actually the total amount being raised in national
:45:45. > :45:53.You are against that, you are in favour of it?
:45:54. > :45:56.If it does what it is supposed to do, it is a good thing?
:45:57. > :46:01.This week, we moved one step closer to leaving the EU.
:46:02. > :46:03.The bill preparing the way finally passed through Parliament,
:46:04. > :46:06.well before Theresa May's deadline at the end of the month.
:46:07. > :46:10.In the run-up to the formal process of Brexit, we have been
:46:11. > :46:22.what challenges are facing us on the road ahead.
:46:23. > :46:29.# There must be some kind of way out of here #.
:46:30. > :46:33.That is what the Prime Minister will start negotiating.
:46:34. > :46:35.It is down to her, with a bit of sovereignty
:46:36. > :46:41.What we know is that there won't be as much free movement within the EU.
:46:42. > :46:47.And we are leaving the single market.
:46:48. > :46:56.We are driving to a destiny where the detail is still unknown.
:46:57. > :46:59.And as we go full throttle So into the Brexit age,
:47:00. > :47:03.Great minds are essential to the machines made
:47:04. > :47:05.in Great Britain that race on Northamptonshire's circuits.
:47:06. > :47:08.Nearby, Cambridge is arguably the brain of Britain.
:47:09. > :47:17.It has the largest pharmaceutical hub outside America.
:47:18. > :47:23.Many scientists backed Remain, but a pharmaceutical bosses
:47:24. > :47:27.I think it is a question of how we use the Freedom of Brexit.
:47:28. > :47:31.It is not Brexit itself, it is what we do with it.
:47:32. > :47:34.The investment in biopharmaceuticals is investment not for now but for 15
:47:35. > :47:39.It is up to the Government to allow a us to invest and grow here.
:47:40. > :47:47.The benefit, or the strength of Cambridge is that the world best
:47:48. > :47:54.and brightest have always come here to do their research.
:47:55. > :47:57.We are assuming that the enthusiasm of the Cambridge environment assumes
:47:58. > :47:59.that that will be more the case in the future.
:48:00. > :48:01.So medicine transcends borders globally.
:48:02. > :48:04.Right now, all goods to and from Europe do as well.
:48:05. > :48:07.All 15,000 containers on this ship could come off at Felixstowe,
:48:08. > :48:18.But if we leave the customs union, Britain's
:48:19. > :48:20.busiest container port might have to start taking a look
:48:21. > :48:23.at what is inside containers that come from the continent.
:48:24. > :48:25.44% of the country's containers arrive in Suffolk,
:48:26. > :48:34.A quarter of these container's content come from the EU.
:48:35. > :48:37.I think the ports could end up being losers because they will have
:48:38. > :48:39.to invest more time and money in making space and people
:48:40. > :48:41.available to do inspections for security checks,
:48:42. > :48:48.The point at the moment, when cargo comes in,
:48:49. > :48:53.it is all governed around the European Union and their checks.
:48:54. > :48:56.If the Government decide to keep the checks the same, then it should
:48:57. > :49:02.But it is the other type of port where the most challenging Brexit
:49:03. > :49:15.Luton and Stansted took off with the boom in budget airlines.
:49:16. > :49:19.The EU created a free aviation area, which today often makes it cheaper
:49:20. > :49:25.to fly to Copenhagen and get a train from here to Clapton.
:49:26. > :49:27.All along the ?60 billion aviation industry, they are watching
:49:28. > :49:30.and lobbying to keep the status quo with the EU.
:49:31. > :49:34.I think it is a priority that we need to really strike
:49:35. > :49:36.with Government that they need to prioritise in terms
:49:37. > :49:38.of that open access, that single aviation
:49:39. > :49:42.The lobbying that we are doing with our partners, airlines
:49:43. > :49:45.and other airports is to ensure that that is the number one priority.
:49:46. > :49:47.The Department for Transport have and the Government have
:49:48. > :49:52.Most airlines were against Britain leaving the EU.
:49:53. > :49:57.Recently, Ryanair has said that it will still expand
:49:58. > :50:01.here at its main base, adding more flights from Stansted.
:50:02. > :50:05.But Brexit brings uncertainty, and elsewhere, airlines are waiting
:50:06. > :50:09.to see what deal is struck with Europe over the skies.
:50:10. > :50:23.Here were medals were won in 2012, the loudest Leave voice was heard.
:50:24. > :50:26.Castle Point voted 74% for Brexit, the pressure to please the people
:50:27. > :50:32.and make a Team GB style success of our future outside of the EU
:50:33. > :50:38.You have got ports in Suffolk, the airport at Stansted.
:50:39. > :50:42.Are you convinced that everything will be OK when we pull out?
:50:43. > :50:44.There is no way of knowing sitting here.
:50:45. > :50:52.As I have also to my constituents corresponding about this
:50:53. > :50:54.since the Referendum, the key thing is we are about to
:50:55. > :50:58.It is difficult to predict what will come from that.
:50:59. > :51:01.My view has always been, once we decide to leave, the priority
:51:02. > :51:03.is to have a negotiation which is good spirited.
:51:04. > :51:06.By that, I mean we are seeking a deal that is good for both parties.
:51:07. > :51:10.If it happens like that, I think we will reach a good deal.
:51:11. > :51:12.Do you really think it will be like that?
:51:13. > :51:19.I think most accept that, when it starts, there will be
:51:20. > :51:22.the usual sort of playing to the gallery and so on.
:51:23. > :51:23.It might be confrontational to some extent.
:51:24. > :51:27.There will be the influence of elections.
:51:28. > :51:29.When all is said and done, it is in both parties' interest
:51:30. > :51:33.The alternative is highly uncertain for both sides
:51:34. > :51:37.You wanted to remain, yet you wanted to pull out,
:51:38. > :51:40.and you have an airport at home in Luton?
:51:41. > :51:58.With the shortage of capacity in the South East which is going
:51:59. > :52:01.to go on for a long time yet, Luton can fill up.
:52:02. > :52:04.We are at the moment expanding and I think it is going to continue
:52:05. > :52:06.to expand more quickly than investments can go in.
:52:07. > :52:08.And we are investing massively as well.
:52:09. > :52:11.I am very optimistic about Luton, and it is a major part
:52:12. > :52:18.As far as Brexit in general is concerned, I think
:52:19. > :52:22.Already, experts are starting to increase, manufacturing
:52:23. > :52:25.is going to benefit from the lower value of the pound, and we have
:52:26. > :52:28.seen massive investments going into motor industry...
:52:29. > :52:31.The big question for the motor industry.
:52:32. > :52:36.The fact is, we have had big investment planned
:52:37. > :52:40.Just today, we have heard that Toyota making massive
:52:41. > :52:43.They did say they wanted reassurances about what was going
:52:44. > :52:54.But the reality is, we're massive net importers of motor vehicles.
:52:55. > :52:57.If the pound stays down at a sensible level as it is now,
:52:58. > :52:59.the advantage of investing in Britain rather than elsewhere
:53:00. > :53:05.Already, Vauxhall in Luton, the new owners have said
:53:06. > :53:08.they are looking at expanding the supply chain in Britain
:53:09. > :53:11.because it would be the sensible thing to do given that the pound has
:53:12. > :53:13.depreciated to a more sensible level.
:53:14. > :53:20.There were always benefits and negatives to both sides.
:53:21. > :53:26.Obviously, the biggest benefit of leaving is that
:53:27. > :53:29.eventually we will be able to negotiate our own trade deal.
:53:30. > :53:31.I never disputed that things like that would be
:53:32. > :53:35.He seems confident that there is no risk.
:53:36. > :53:40.Hopefully it is outweighed by the potential for this
:53:41. > :53:47.My view is the key to it is the nature of a negotiation.
:53:48. > :53:49.As I say, if it sort of unravels and becomes confrontational,
:53:50. > :53:52.then I think that the markets will be unsteady, I think
:53:53. > :53:55.the country will be nervous, investors will be uncertain.
:53:56. > :53:58.I am confident that will not prevail in the long term
:53:59. > :54:01.because it is in both side's interest to come to a good deal.
:54:02. > :54:15.First of all, I entirely understand from the public point of view
:54:16. > :54:21.That we could have an area of immigration from the EU
:54:22. > :54:27.Clearly they have partly voted to leave in order to control that.
:54:28. > :54:31.I think we do have to be honest and say that the country
:54:32. > :54:33.will still need immigration because they are such an important
:54:34. > :54:35.part of our labour force, they do a fantastic job.
:54:36. > :54:44.They work so hard. We should be open about that.
:54:45. > :54:48.But I think we will have a deal that has some control.
:54:49. > :54:53.Just seven days after being announced in the budget,
:54:54. > :54:55.the Government has scrapped a plan to increase National Insurance
:54:56. > :54:58.In what has been called a screeching U-turn,
:54:59. > :55:00.the Chancellor Philip Hammond admitted that it was breaking
:55:01. > :55:02.the spirit if not the letter of a manifesto pledge.
:55:03. > :55:08.But it was Conservative backbenchers like Stevenage MP Stephen McPartland
:55:09. > :55:14.Earlier this week, I spoke to him about whether the plan
:55:15. > :55:18.flew in the face of Conservative values.
:55:19. > :55:24.This is something that has come out of a civil servant's bottom drawer,
:55:25. > :55:34.At the end of the day, there is issues arounds people
:55:35. > :55:36.who are self-employed paying slightly less National Insurance
:55:37. > :55:40.You know, those people have often set up the risk
:55:41. > :55:42.of creating their own small business, many of which
:55:43. > :55:45.They are the backbone of our economy.
:55:46. > :55:47.Also, they don't really get maternity pay or holiday pay,
:55:48. > :55:50.statutory sick pay, other benefits that people who are employed to get.
:55:51. > :55:54.To try and say that we are going to equalise National Insurance
:55:55. > :55:57.of it is fair because they receive the same benefits, it
:55:58. > :56:01.There is an argument that says everybody should pay the same amount
:56:02. > :56:05.If everybody is receiving the same benefits for their contribution
:56:06. > :56:07.to National Insurance, that is something that
:56:08. > :56:12.As I have said, those people who are self employed
:56:13. > :56:13.receive holiday pay, sick pay, maternity
:56:14. > :56:17.There is a whole variety of benefits they do not receive.
:56:18. > :56:19.This isn't the first time you have been a lightning rod.
:56:20. > :56:21.You stood up to the Government over tax credits.
:56:22. > :56:23.You are beginning to get yourself a reputation.
:56:24. > :56:28.From our point of view, I have spoken on a number of issues.
:56:29. > :56:30.And been successful on almost all of those issues.
:56:31. > :56:34.Occasionally, you have to stand up and speak out and say,
:56:35. > :56:37.I am standing up for ordinary working families in my constituency
:56:38. > :56:42.I am happy to speak out and if the members of Parliament
:56:43. > :56:44.are happy for me to do that, I am pleased.
:56:45. > :56:47.I don't speak on anybody else's behalf, I speak on my own.
:56:48. > :56:50.What does this say about the opposition when backbenchers
:56:51. > :56:53.are the people who seem to be holding the Government to account?
:56:54. > :57:03.The one on tax credits was done inside the Conservative Party.
:57:04. > :57:08.They don't recognise the problems, they don't know what is coming down
:57:09. > :57:10.the line, they don't really do their homework.
:57:11. > :57:14.It does fall on the Conservative parliamentary party to actually go
:57:15. > :57:18.through everything in detail and provide holding the Government
:57:19. > :57:20.to account type of organisation because the opposition
:57:21. > :57:23.Stephen McPartland, thank you very much.
:57:24. > :57:29.Kelvin Hopkins, the opposition is incredibly weak.
:57:30. > :57:36.He would say that, but I think the Government has got it wrong.
:57:37. > :57:39.Come on, it is Conservative backbenchers who are holding
:57:40. > :57:45.the Chancellor to account, not the opposition.
:57:46. > :57:48.When we were in the New Labour Government, it was often
:57:49. > :57:51.backbenchers like myself, Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell
:57:52. > :57:57.who made the Government change its mind on a number of issues.
:57:58. > :57:59.Because that is what backbenchers as opposed to do.
:58:00. > :58:02.I think the Government is refusing to grasp the nettle
:58:03. > :58:04.of collecting the taxes which are avoided and evaded.
:58:05. > :58:08.This tax change was going to produce ?2 billion per year.
:58:09. > :58:19.Mr Corbyn was criticised for his performance at PM's
:58:20. > :58:21.Mr Corbyn was criticised for his performance at PM's Question Time.
:58:22. > :58:25.He were the first person to put his name in the hat.
:58:26. > :58:37.I wasn't in Prime Minister's questions this week, I didn't see.
:58:38. > :58:39.On the other hand, I stand by Jeremy.
:58:40. > :58:43.I think he represents historic Labour values and millions
:58:44. > :58:47.I think that is the way, he is the one for us.
:58:48. > :58:50.When you look, I mean, where you one of the backbenchers
:58:51. > :58:57.Are you reluctant to join in with these?
:58:58. > :59:01.I look to the underlying picture here, and that is that I respect
:59:02. > :59:03.the fact people to take risks starting a business.
:59:04. > :59:06.But we have an unavoidable mathematical fact which is
:59:07. > :59:09.that the cost of delivering welfare including the NHS, the state
:59:10. > :59:11.pension and many other benefits is increasing.
:59:12. > :59:16.You think the NIC increase was right?
:59:17. > :59:18.Think the underlying policy is right.
:59:19. > :59:20.We do have a huge change in the economy here.
:59:21. > :59:23.We have less tax coming in from more and more people
:59:24. > :59:27.We can choose to become more and more in depth as a country
:59:28. > :59:32.I think that's the way that the Chancellor executed it,
:59:33. > :59:35.in respect of the reaction to what was in the manifesto, we are
:59:36. > :59:39.But the underlying policy direction he will pursue, I welcome that.
:59:40. > :59:43.I think the country will have to come to terms with the fact that,
:59:44. > :59:45.when the economy changes, policy has to change with it.
:59:46. > :59:48.Are there other things they are going to have to do
:59:49. > :59:51.a U-turn on, do you think from the Budget and recent policies?
:59:52. > :59:53.We will have to wait and see on that one.
:59:54. > :59:55.I think that the broader direction is very sensible.
:59:56. > :00:05.We are very fortunate to have such low unemployment.
:00:06. > :00:07.I think we should remember how lucky we are compared
:00:08. > :00:10.They'll will still be decisions to make in the future.
:00:11. > :00:14.Is it a strong man who changes his mind, or somebody who doesn't
:00:15. > :00:18.If someone says, you have got it wrong and they prove their point,
:00:19. > :00:21.John Maynard Keynes, perhaps the greatest intellectual
:00:22. > :00:24.of the 20th century in Britain, said always used to say that.
:00:25. > :00:31.Now for our 60 Second round up of the week with Deborah.
:00:32. > :00:34.In the wake of January's flood warnings for the East Anglian Coast
:00:35. > :00:36.a new report has identified 64 problems and mistakes
:00:37. > :00:43.I think there are some big lessons to learn.
:00:44. > :00:46.But I think of the smaller things, sometimes it is human error,
:00:47. > :00:50.sometimes a systematic failure, but the important thing
:00:51. > :00:56.is that they are going to address it for the future from the review.
:00:57. > :00:59.MP WIll Quint is hoping that some of the money earmarked for accident
:01:00. > :01:01.and emergency departments in the last week's budget
:01:02. > :01:04.Colchester Hospital's A E department has excellent staff,
:01:05. > :01:09.but suffers from poor layout and patient flow.
:01:10. > :01:11.Warnings that withdrawing from the EU will cost
:01:12. > :01:26.They do not worry long-time Brexiteer Peter Bone.
:01:27. > :01:29.When you have a divorce, don't you split the net amount in two ?
:01:30. > :01:34.So that would be ?92 billion that should be paid back to us.
:01:35. > :01:36.Did the Prime Minister have the chance to bring this up?
:01:37. > :01:39.And Boaty McBoatface. Finally gets an outing.
:01:40. > :01:41.Scientists from the Cambridge-based British Antarctic Survey
:01:42. > :01:46.will be heading off for its first expedition.
:01:47. > :01:50.Both of you, thank you very much for being with us this week.
:01:51. > :01:56.pricing of these buildings. Thank you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back
:01:57. > :02:00.to you. So, can George Osborne stay
:02:01. > :02:03.on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force
:02:04. > :02:07.a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas
:02:08. > :02:20.and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all?
:02:21. > :02:26.They are all questions for the Week Ahead to.
:02:27. > :02:31.Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it
:02:32. > :02:35.was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's
:02:36. > :02:42.Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May
:02:43. > :02:46.on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week.
:02:47. > :02:49.But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP
:02:50. > :02:52.for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001,
:02:53. > :02:55.Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of
:02:56. > :03:01.While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock,
:03:02. > :03:04.an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him
:03:05. > :03:09.Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow
:03:10. > :03:11.at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank,
:03:12. > :03:19.And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau,
:03:20. > :03:25.he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking
:03:26. > :03:29.around ?750,000 since last summer.
:03:30. > :03:39.So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem,
:03:40. > :03:42.though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow
:03:43. > :03:48.MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that
:03:49. > :03:52.kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy
:03:53. > :03:57.about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting
:03:58. > :04:01.appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre
:04:02. > :04:05.right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been
:04:06. > :04:10.on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they
:04:11. > :04:15.are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere.
:04:16. > :04:17.So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to
:04:18. > :04:24.condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are
:04:25. > :04:28.all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the
:04:29. > :04:34.degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard
:04:35. > :04:38.was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it
:04:39. > :04:42.was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be
:04:43. > :04:47.overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper.
:04:48. > :04:53.But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms
:04:54. > :04:58.have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who
:04:59. > :05:03.used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on
:05:04. > :05:06.television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank
:05:07. > :05:11.account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper,
:05:12. > :05:17.Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to
:05:18. > :05:21.see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the
:05:22. > :05:24.Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David
:05:25. > :05:32.Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard.
:05:33. > :05:36.Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is
:05:37. > :05:40.sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I
:05:41. > :05:44.was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble
:05:45. > :05:48.journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am
:05:49. > :05:52.everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage
:05:53. > :05:57.everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land.
:05:58. > :06:01.What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption
:06:02. > :06:05.about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He
:06:06. > :06:08.thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of
:06:09. > :06:13.message does that send to people about how seriously people take the
:06:14. > :06:19.role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The
:06:20. > :06:24.Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the
:06:25. > :06:27.proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some
:06:28. > :06:32.kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback
:06:33. > :06:35.there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished
:06:36. > :06:40.yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne
:06:41. > :06:45.cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and
:06:46. > :06:49.tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see
:06:50. > :06:57.already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless!
:06:58. > :07:02.Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've
:07:03. > :07:06.never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not
:07:07. > :07:11.bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own
:07:12. > :07:16.future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be
:07:17. > :07:19.Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a
:07:20. > :07:23.new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an
:07:24. > :07:28.MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The
:07:29. > :07:34.Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to
:07:35. > :07:39.make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day
:07:40. > :07:42.and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The
:07:43. > :07:47.news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in
:07:48. > :07:54.your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not
:07:55. > :08:00.over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at.
:08:01. > :08:07.School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky
:08:08. > :08:12.one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this
:08:13. > :08:18.through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a
:08:19. > :08:23.small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way.
:08:24. > :08:27.Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not
:08:28. > :08:33.going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been
:08:34. > :08:37.on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether
:08:38. > :08:40.they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something
:08:41. > :08:46.possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you
:08:47. > :08:50.can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there
:08:51. > :08:54.are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go
:08:55. > :08:57.ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the
:08:58. > :09:02.country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in
:09:03. > :09:07.certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department,
:09:08. > :09:12.the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being
:09:13. > :09:15.mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate
:09:16. > :09:19.more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in
:09:20. > :09:23.the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on
:09:24. > :09:27.schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to
:09:28. > :09:32.be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands,
:09:33. > :09:36.NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip
:09:37. > :09:41.Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There
:09:42. > :09:46.was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested
:09:47. > :09:50.perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at
:09:51. > :09:53.passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when
:09:54. > :09:58.it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we
:09:59. > :10:03.study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and
:10:04. > :10:08.quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May
:10:09. > :10:12.is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it
:10:13. > :10:16.wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed
:10:17. > :10:20.Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us
:10:21. > :10:25.see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of
:10:26. > :10:28.argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday
:10:29. > :10:34.was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the
:10:35. > :10:36.speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in
:10:37. > :10:42.intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As
:10:43. > :10:46.you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more
:10:47. > :10:51.cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the
:10:52. > :10:53.industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain
:10:54. > :10:58.markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there
:10:59. > :11:04.comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
:11:05. > :11:08.They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face
:11:09. > :11:12.rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel
:11:13. > :11:19.bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two
:11:20. > :11:23.things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food
:11:24. > :11:26.bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she
:11:27. > :11:30.has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen
:11:31. > :11:34.to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue.
:11:35. > :11:38.They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk
:11:39. > :11:41.and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree
:11:42. > :11:55.with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on
:11:56. > :11:57.this and the principle of continually talking about
:11:58. > :12:00.interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on
:12:01. > :12:03.energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the
:12:04. > :12:06.world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are
:12:07. > :12:08.open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing
:12:09. > :12:11.this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem
:12:12. > :12:13.in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't
:12:14. > :12:17.operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith,
:12:18. > :12:21.the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you
:12:22. > :12:24.should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest
:12:25. > :12:29.explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months,
:12:30. > :12:33.this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the
:12:34. > :12:37.meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty
:12:38. > :12:42.government action on this for quite some time. For the just about
:12:43. > :12:46.managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated
:12:47. > :12:50.by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and
:12:51. > :12:54.centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by
:12:55. > :12:59.the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral
:13:00. > :13:02.because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming
:13:03. > :13:06.into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went
:13:07. > :13:10.very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there
:13:11. > :13:15.was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do
:13:16. > :13:20.to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing
:13:21. > :13:22.Street. We await to see the actions taken.
:13:23. > :13:30.On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics
:13:31. > :13:32.will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week.
:13:33. > :13:35.And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am.
:13:36. > :14:19.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:20. > :14:25.I've not given myself that time to sit down
:14:26. > :14:29.Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife