:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes
:00:44. > :00:46.in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -
:00:47. > :00:53.Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax
:00:54. > :00:55.to fund public services, but will traders just
:00:56. > :00:59.Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,
:01:00. > :01:01.insists he can win this election - so which way will
:01:02. > :01:07.We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.
:01:08. > :01:10.Here in the East, the thousands of nurses that are needed to fill
:01:11. > :01:14.And why some parties are standing aside this election.
:01:15. > :01:17.and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air
:01:18. > :01:25.pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically
:01:26. > :01:28.selected focus group of political pundits -
:01:29. > :01:30.they're not so much undecided as clueless -
:01:31. > :01:33.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting
:01:34. > :01:40.throughout the programme. So, we've got two new
:01:41. > :01:42.policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce
:01:43. > :01:44.a financial transaction tax if they win the general election
:01:45. > :01:46.and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax
:01:47. > :01:49.avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work
:01:50. > :01:51.with local authorities in England to build council houses
:01:52. > :01:53.with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy
:01:54. > :01:56."will help thousands of people get on the first rung
:01:57. > :02:08.of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I
:02:09. > :02:13.have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in
:02:14. > :02:17.pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as
:02:18. > :02:21.literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the
:02:22. > :02:26.Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it
:02:27. > :02:30.framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a
:02:31. > :02:35.sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a
:02:36. > :02:38.narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an
:02:39. > :02:45.argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour
:02:46. > :02:48.government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said
:02:49. > :02:51.right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a
:02:52. > :02:55.housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit
:02:56. > :03:00.George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get
:03:01. > :03:03.house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it
:03:04. > :03:09.works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes
:03:10. > :03:16.sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa
:03:17. > :03:21.May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly
:03:22. > :03:24.these two announcements have something in common which is that
:03:25. > :03:30.over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.
:03:31. > :03:34.Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't
:03:35. > :03:41.agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like
:03:42. > :03:46.a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might
:03:47. > :03:50.become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is
:03:51. > :03:55.difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what
:03:56. > :04:00.looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase
:04:01. > :04:04.orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will
:04:05. > :04:07.change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market
:04:08. > :04:12.value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily
:04:13. > :04:19.with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both
:04:20. > :04:23.would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and
:04:24. > :04:30.traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then
:04:31. > :04:38.councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the
:04:39. > :04:41.city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the
:04:42. > :04:45.Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is
:04:46. > :04:50.talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now
:04:51. > :04:57.Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is
:04:58. > :05:02.the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most
:05:03. > :05:09.interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC
:05:10. > :05:12.correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't
:05:13. > :05:17.worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising
:05:18. > :05:24.it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the
:05:25. > :05:29.macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very
:05:30. > :05:32.well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.
:05:33. > :05:33.Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.
:05:34. > :05:37.But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -
:05:38. > :05:39.that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media
:05:40. > :05:48.Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra
:05:49. > :05:51.?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social
:05:52. > :05:53.care over the lifetime of the next parliament,
:05:54. > :05:55.as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over
:05:56. > :06:02.The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,
:06:03. > :06:04.although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious
:06:05. > :06:07.about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence
:06:08. > :06:10.and security review immediately after the election.
:06:11. > :06:12.In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable
:06:13. > :06:14.management of migration", but it will not make "false
:06:15. > :06:20.Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,
:06:21. > :06:23.and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises
:06:24. > :06:26.for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.
:06:27. > :06:29.The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail
:06:30. > :06:36.and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one
:06:37. > :06:42.A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics
:06:43. > :06:44.as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss
:06:45. > :06:47.about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates
:06:48. > :06:48.told us they thought it had been deliberately
:06:49. > :06:52.leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting
:06:53. > :06:55.the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"
:06:56. > :06:58.And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,
:06:59. > :07:07.Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise
:07:08. > :07:11.the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out
:07:12. > :07:16.rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the
:07:17. > :07:20.railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three
:07:21. > :07:26.Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to
:07:27. > :07:33.comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what
:07:34. > :07:37.is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will
:07:38. > :07:42.nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking
:07:43. > :07:45.the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail
:07:46. > :07:51.will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail
:07:52. > :07:55.until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound
:07:56. > :08:01.very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National
:08:02. > :08:07.Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to
:08:08. > :08:11.nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you
:08:12. > :08:18.will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the
:08:19. > :08:22.National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just
:08:23. > :08:26.have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is
:08:27. > :08:31.it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that
:08:32. > :08:36.costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I
:08:37. > :08:41.would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform
:08:42. > :08:44.the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority
:08:45. > :08:49.stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion
:08:50. > :08:56.in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for
:08:57. > :08:59.reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not
:09:00. > :09:03.going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the
:09:04. > :09:08.distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising
:09:09. > :09:13.the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on
:09:14. > :09:16.Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent
:09:17. > :09:23.years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in
:09:24. > :09:29.answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for
:09:30. > :09:33.nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the
:09:34. > :09:37.energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big
:09:38. > :09:42.six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to
:09:43. > :09:49.be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,
:09:50. > :09:53.you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with
:09:54. > :10:00.the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty
:10:01. > :10:06.to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The
:10:07. > :10:10.Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British
:10:11. > :10:14.taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a
:10:15. > :10:18.long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a
:10:19. > :10:24.key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in
:10:25. > :10:26.our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households
:10:27. > :10:32.ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal
:10:33. > :10:37.providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John
:10:38. > :10:41.McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top
:10:42. > :10:46.of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You
:10:47. > :10:54.will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years
:10:55. > :11:00.after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing
:11:01. > :11:07.75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of
:11:08. > :11:10.capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our
:11:11. > :11:15.financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a
:11:16. > :11:18.state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we
:11:19. > :11:25.won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.
:11:26. > :11:29.How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75
:11:30. > :11:35.billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500
:11:36. > :11:39.billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure
:11:40. > :11:43.that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a
:11:44. > :11:47.figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial
:11:48. > :11:55.competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the
:11:56. > :11:59.CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250
:12:00. > :12:04.billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the
:12:05. > :12:09.fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a
:12:10. > :12:16.proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have
:12:17. > :12:19.just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will
:12:20. > :12:24.ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the
:12:25. > :12:31.parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state
:12:32. > :12:35.than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will
:12:36. > :12:39.ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came
:12:40. > :12:47.to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft
:12:48. > :12:51.manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going
:12:52. > :12:56.to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps
:12:57. > :13:00.we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for
:13:01. > :13:04.corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your
:13:05. > :13:09.predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end
:13:10. > :13:13.of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their
:13:14. > :13:18.behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or
:13:19. > :13:23.they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to
:13:24. > :13:26.make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and
:13:27. > :13:32.costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.
:13:33. > :13:35.We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes
:13:36. > :13:40.in market activity because that would be approved and direction to
:13:41. > :13:48.take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United
:13:49. > :13:51.States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are
:13:52. > :13:56.already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,
:13:57. > :14:01.if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number
:14:02. > :14:06.of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in
:14:07. > :14:11.the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting
:14:12. > :14:15.corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business
:14:16. > :14:18.investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent
:14:19. > :14:24.years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in
:14:25. > :14:28.things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce
:14:29. > :14:34.the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the
:14:35. > :14:41.Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the
:14:42. > :14:44.proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can
:14:45. > :14:51.invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.
:14:52. > :15:01.Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in
:15:02. > :15:07.?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a
:15:08. > :15:14.year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so
:15:15. > :15:18.what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it
:15:19. > :15:24.increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about
:15:25. > :15:28.cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to
:15:29. > :15:34.thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are
:15:35. > :15:40.industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate
:15:41. > :15:45.businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if
:15:46. > :15:52.we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am
:15:53. > :16:00.not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business
:16:01. > :16:03.tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to
:16:04. > :16:15.thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on
:16:16. > :16:19.business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own
:16:20. > :16:24.labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not
:16:25. > :16:30.want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding
:16:31. > :16:33.with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing
:16:34. > :16:38.global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.
:16:39. > :16:44.Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't
:16:45. > :16:49.cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought
:16:50. > :16:53.in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has
:16:54. > :16:58.changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that
:16:59. > :17:02.change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a
:17:03. > :17:07.lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We
:17:08. > :17:14.need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the
:17:15. > :17:19.computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other
:17:20. > :17:21.countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what
:17:22. > :17:30.other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at
:17:31. > :17:37.introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will
:17:38. > :17:41.be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at
:17:42. > :17:46.the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in
:17:47. > :17:51.2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are
:17:52. > :17:55.going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which
:17:56. > :18:00.generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a
:18:01. > :18:11.significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied
:18:12. > :18:15.at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the
:18:16. > :18:20.instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.
:18:21. > :18:24.This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in
:18:25. > :18:28.terms of financial services because there is more to keep these
:18:29. > :18:33.businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the
:18:34. > :18:37.economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we
:18:38. > :18:41.will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.
:18:42. > :18:47.And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.
:18:48. > :18:53.Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower
:18:54. > :19:00.than international standards, so why are so many global companies who
:19:01. > :19:05.make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of
:19:06. > :19:07.the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not
:19:08. > :19:14.answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the
:19:15. > :19:18.important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it
:19:19. > :19:23.encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may
:19:24. > :19:29.say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.
:19:30. > :19:38.But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and
:19:39. > :19:41.did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading
:19:42. > :19:50.internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our
:19:51. > :19:54.partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than
:19:55. > :19:58.they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,
:19:59. > :20:04.alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the
:20:05. > :20:08.people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the
:20:09. > :20:12.corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and
:20:13. > :20:17.more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a
:20:18. > :20:23.number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been
:20:24. > :20:26.able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the
:20:27. > :20:33.changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British
:20:34. > :20:37.companies, not from these international companies. It is
:20:38. > :20:41.because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good
:20:42. > :20:47.thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack
:20:48. > :20:51.down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused
:20:52. > :20:56.to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by
:20:57. > :21:01.cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking
:21:02. > :21:07.down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap
:21:08. > :21:12.is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.
:21:13. > :21:19.It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have
:21:20. > :21:22.brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax
:21:23. > :21:33.schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone
:21:34. > :21:35.from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the
:21:36. > :21:39.Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money
:21:40. > :21:46.on these companies while still having a competitive rate to
:21:47. > :21:51.encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to
:21:52. > :21:54.prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on
:21:55. > :21:59.average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms
:22:00. > :22:05.by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it
:22:06. > :22:10.that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,
:22:11. > :22:15.Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual
:22:16. > :22:24.income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,
:22:25. > :22:26.people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep
:22:27. > :22:31.emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years
:22:32. > :22:37.and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.
:22:38. > :22:43.Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.
:22:44. > :22:49.There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.
:22:50. > :22:53.1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their
:22:54. > :22:57.careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,
:22:58. > :23:01.investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,
:23:02. > :23:07.companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities
:23:08. > :23:10.that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about
:23:11. > :23:15.hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than
:23:16. > :23:20.they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives
:23:21. > :23:23.have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has
:23:24. > :23:28.shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of
:23:29. > :23:34.?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions
:23:35. > :23:39.kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one
:23:40. > :23:45.law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of
:23:46. > :23:49.all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare
:23:50. > :23:55.and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people
:23:56. > :24:03.in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that
:24:04. > :24:08.allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket
:24:09. > :24:14.to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,
:24:15. > :24:19.among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as
:24:20. > :24:26.we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen
:24:27. > :24:30.millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these
:24:31. > :24:34.questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just
:24:35. > :24:39.about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and
:24:40. > :24:43.below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We
:24:44. > :24:47.have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone
:24:48. > :24:54.up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages
:24:55. > :24:59.will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for
:25:00. > :25:04.housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,
:25:05. > :25:08.social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the
:25:09. > :25:12.associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4
:25:13. > :25:20.billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you
:25:21. > :25:22.get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local
:25:23. > :25:30.authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.
:25:31. > :25:34.I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at
:25:35. > :25:40.100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at
:25:41. > :25:45.you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the
:25:46. > :25:48.local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is
:25:49. > :25:53.what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the
:25:54. > :25:56.money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the
:25:57. > :26:02.expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the
:26:03. > :26:07.housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how
:26:08. > :26:13.many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on
:26:14. > :26:18.it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what
:26:19. > :26:21.the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities
:26:22. > :26:25.who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.
:26:26. > :26:29.What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,
:26:30. > :26:33.they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,
:26:34. > :26:38.the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with
:26:39. > :26:42.them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I
:26:43. > :26:48.want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what
:26:49. > :26:51.the target and timescale is, and this government, under which
:26:52. > :26:57.affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million
:26:58. > :27:03.families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your
:27:04. > :27:07.record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what
:27:08. > :27:12.we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a
:27:13. > :27:19.strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This
:27:20. > :27:25.is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,
:27:26. > :27:30.75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.
:27:31. > :27:34.That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the
:27:35. > :27:45.industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in
:27:46. > :27:50.2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000
:27:51. > :27:58.affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.
:27:59. > :28:05.So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have
:28:06. > :28:11.delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour
:28:12. > :28:15.did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,
:28:16. > :28:16.working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in
:28:17. > :28:20.their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit
:28:21. > :28:23.of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those
:28:24. > :28:26.around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got
:28:27. > :28:29.three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those
:28:30. > :28:31.fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation
:28:32. > :28:36.YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders
:28:37. > :28:38.will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters
:28:39. > :28:47.of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home
:28:48. > :28:52.to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited
:28:53. > :28:55.from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't
:28:56. > :28:59.decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,
:29:00. > :29:01.two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up
:29:02. > :29:08.political press at Downing Street under David Cameron
:29:09. > :29:14.and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron
:29:15. > :29:16.and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself
:29:17. > :29:21.as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it
:29:22. > :29:41.came about who you want,
:29:42. > :29:45.if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus
:29:46. > :29:48.groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,
:29:49. > :29:51.even though some of those same people have been saying we quite
:29:52. > :29:53.like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's
:29:54. > :29:57.going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive
:29:58. > :29:59.manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,
:30:00. > :30:04.that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that
:30:05. > :30:06.you don't recognise? After a little warm up,
:30:07. > :30:08.the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong
:30:09. > :30:14.woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,
:30:15. > :30:17.when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,
:30:18. > :30:19.here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what
:30:20. > :30:22.are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,
:30:23. > :30:26.it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's
:30:27. > :30:35.actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership
:30:36. > :30:48.in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's
:30:49. > :30:52.the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one
:30:53. > :31:02.for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad
:31:03. > :31:04.as strong and stable, but it will probably get
:31:05. > :31:07.on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today
:31:08. > :31:18.and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my
:31:19. > :31:25.question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,
:31:26. > :31:28.we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table
:31:29. > :31:31.at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,
:31:32. > :31:34.we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control
:31:35. > :31:36.and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought
:31:37. > :31:41.he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,
:31:42. > :31:50.hovering around, skirting around and that's the second
:31:51. > :31:52.time I've seen a similar interview with the question
:31:53. > :31:54.being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have
:31:55. > :31:56.any confidence with him You think you are going up
:31:57. > :32:00.against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand
:32:01. > :32:02.up for us? When you are in negotiations,
:32:03. > :32:07.you need to be tough. And actually is right
:32:08. > :32:09.to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing
:32:10. > :32:11.something for the country. There's a reason for talking
:32:12. > :32:14.about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future
:32:15. > :32:16.of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen
:32:17. > :32:20.to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show
:32:21. > :32:26.and in the news. She attracts the public better
:32:27. > :32:32.than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question
:32:33. > :32:35.in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa
:32:36. > :32:41.May is an animal. So, in your minds,
:32:42. > :32:44.what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think
:32:45. > :32:58.she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's
:32:59. > :33:04.superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies
:33:05. > :33:20.are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak
:33:21. > :33:23.and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch
:33:24. > :33:26.you by surprise if you're What do you take away
:33:27. > :33:34.from what you saw then, and what message would you send back
:33:35. > :33:36.to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see
:33:37. > :33:40.Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,
:33:41. > :33:42.but you don't need to be liked to be elected,
:33:43. > :33:45.because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future
:33:46. > :33:47.and your security. I think what I also take out
:33:48. > :33:49.of that focus group, was it was a group of floating
:33:50. > :33:52.voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no
:33:53. > :33:55.huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ
:33:56. > :33:58.would be stick to the plan. I thought the response
:33:59. > :34:01.to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't
:34:02. > :34:04.particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her
:34:05. > :34:09.about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party
:34:10. > :34:12.want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks
:34:13. > :34:14.that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,
:34:15. > :34:21.what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise
:34:22. > :34:22.the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform
:34:23. > :34:29.out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those
:34:30. > :34:31.characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be
:34:32. > :34:34.over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact
:34:35. > :34:37.that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go
:34:38. > :34:39.into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American
:34:40. > :34:47.political consultant For the sake of this discussion,
:34:48. > :34:54.assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for
:34:55. > :35:00.Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious
:35:01. > :35:03.collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether
:35:04. > :35:08.you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where
:35:09. > :35:12.they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to
:35:13. > :35:17.watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more
:35:18. > :35:21.substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality
:35:22. > :35:26.and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because
:35:27. > :35:35.Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see
:35:36. > :35:43.on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language
:35:44. > :35:47.she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't
:35:48. > :35:52.see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her
:35:53. > :35:56.campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy
:35:57. > :36:02.because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary
:36:03. > :36:06.Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,
:36:07. > :36:12.the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I
:36:13. > :36:20.was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC
:36:21. > :36:25.had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can
:36:26. > :36:31.assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had
:36:32. > :36:38.but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other
:36:39. > :36:43.than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you
:36:44. > :36:48.will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour
:36:49. > :36:51.will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of
:36:52. > :36:55.number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of
:36:56. > :37:01.soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable
:37:02. > :37:04.majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British
:37:05. > :37:10.people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will
:37:11. > :37:15.have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice
:37:16. > :37:20.of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British
:37:21. > :37:24.politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there
:37:25. > :37:28.is still a significant percentage of the British population that once
:37:29. > :37:37.someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.
:37:38. > :37:40.I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and
:37:41. > :37:42.I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a
:37:43. > :37:49.population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.
:37:50. > :37:51.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:52. > :37:54.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:55. > :38:05.Hello. Welcome to Sunday Politics East.
:38:06. > :38:08.Later in the programme why, in some places,
:38:09. > :38:11.you will not be able to vote for parties like these,
:38:12. > :38:18.But first, new figures show just how much pressure the health service
:38:19. > :38:21.The latest survey for cancelled operations shows that, between
:38:22. > :38:27.surgery in our hospitals was delayed on 2,745 occasions.
:38:28. > :38:33.Parts of Essex and Norfolk have already cut IVF for women
:38:34. > :38:43.And these are the latest numbers for NHS staff shortages.
:38:44. > :38:49.3,400 nurses are needed to fill vacancies here.
:38:50. > :38:56.according to the latest figures from the Royal College of Nursing.
:38:57. > :38:58.So, how are the political parties pledging to help?
:38:59. > :39:07.As political footballs go, the NHS is used to getting a good kicking.
:39:08. > :39:09.Last year, it was a carrot to court Brexit votes.
:39:10. > :39:12.Now, it has being fought over by the main parties.
:39:13. > :39:20.I have come here to Great Yarmouth, to meet a lady
:39:21. > :39:23.who is recuperating here after a knee operation -
:39:24. > :39:27.a knee operation which was cancelled four times.
:39:28. > :39:30.Lesley Joseph does like a stroll along the prom,
:39:31. > :39:33.but getting a new knee was no stroll, when her routine operation
:39:34. > :39:42.At the fourth time, she was already actually prepped for surgery.
:39:43. > :39:44.I also heard that they were cancelling people's cancer
:39:45. > :39:46.treatment, which I thought was shocking, because you need to have
:39:47. > :39:56.that treatment, more so than a knee or hip operation.
:39:57. > :39:58.We worked hard to help keep the National Health
:39:59. > :40:02.Service running and it has ended up running down.
:40:03. > :40:13.In many ways, Lesley is one of the lucky ones,
:40:14. > :40:16.because at least, in the end, she did get her surgery.
:40:17. > :40:18.But many routine operations are being cancelled or delayed
:40:19. > :40:22.to save money. It is called health rationing.
:40:23. > :40:24.People like smokers and the overweight are being told they
:40:25. > :40:30.One-fifth of clinical commissioning groups are already doing this.
:40:31. > :40:36.Tony Durkin speaks for the RCN Essex, where the
:40:37. > :40:38.health rationing for the likes of smokers and overweight people is one
:40:39. > :40:43.The NHS has always had to prioritise, but he says
:40:44. > :40:49.Every day, doctors, nurses and others are having to
:40:50. > :40:51.make choices about who needs an operation, who can wait for an
:40:52. > :40:54.operation, and who can come into the hospital and who cannot.
:40:55. > :40:59.If you require urgent care, you require urgent care.
:41:00. > :41:02.If you need routine care, how long can we wait until that
:41:03. > :41:03.operation or treatment needs to occur?
:41:04. > :41:07.It should not be about obesity and it should not be about smoking,
:41:08. > :41:10.but about how could we keep that person reasonably fit and well
:41:11. > :41:18.before they actually do need that operation?
:41:19. > :41:20.So, what are the parties promising, to keep the wheels turning?
:41:21. > :41:22.No manifesto yet from the Conservatives, but they have
:41:23. > :41:28.already been talking about an extra 10,000 mental health staff.
:41:29. > :41:31.Labour's leaked draft manifesto pledged ?6 billion,
:41:32. > :41:35.although how they would pay for it is not manifest.
:41:36. > :41:38.And the Liberal Democrats would put on 1p in the ?1 on tax.
:41:39. > :41:42.I would be prepared to pay more, but I cannot afford it.
:41:43. > :41:45.I think they do a good job. I lost my husband last year
:41:46. > :41:50.and they were marvellous. I would be prepared to pay more.
:41:51. > :41:53.I do not think we should have to do that.
:41:54. > :41:55.I think enough money should be brought forward for the NHS
:41:56. > :42:03.The pressing problem is staffing, which we suffer from in the East
:42:04. > :42:07.particularly the rapid growth of over-85s, who need more care.
:42:08. > :42:10.According to the latest figures from the RCN,
:42:11. > :42:14.there are at least 3,400 nursing vacancies in the East alone.
:42:15. > :42:18.These trainee nurses, soon to graduate at the
:42:19. > :42:23.University of Northampton, will fill some of these gaps.
:42:24. > :42:25.They have been celebrating International Nurses Day,
:42:26. > :42:30.as they think about joining an NHS widely believed to be in crisis.
:42:31. > :42:35.When A is blocked when I walk into work, I can tell what type
:42:36. > :42:39.of day it is going to be by just looking in the corridors.
:42:40. > :42:42.The NHS is understaffed, so I thought I could make
:42:43. > :42:45.a difference if I train as an adult nurse, so that I could make
:42:46. > :42:50.We are running out of money, I think.
:42:51. > :42:53.But I love it, so we have got to keep it going.
:42:54. > :42:57.If we do not have nurses, where are we going to go?
:42:58. > :42:59.The Green Party, amongst others, say the
:43:00. > :43:03.funding gap for the NHS is actually around ?30 billion.
:43:04. > :43:06.But whatever it is, the service is a supermassive black
:43:07. > :43:09.hole, a money pit, and whatever it gets, it will always be
:43:10. > :43:16.It will eat it up and still come back for more.
:43:17. > :43:18.Well, Jeremy Hunt was at the Princess Alexandra Hospital
:43:19. > :43:23.in Harlow this week and we asked him about nurse shortages.
:43:24. > :43:26.Well, if you look at this hospital, there are 35 more
:43:27. > :43:30.We are seeing more doctors and nurses across the NHS,
:43:31. > :43:33.But there are thousands of vacancies.
:43:34. > :43:36.Yes, but the trick is, we need to train more and
:43:37. > :43:39.that is why we are seeing record numbers of nurses
:43:40. > :43:40.being trained, record numbers of doctors being trained.
:43:41. > :43:47.And that, in the end, for the people of Harlow,
:43:48. > :43:49.Here with me are Councillor Peter Reeve for Ukip,
:43:50. > :43:52.Rupert Read for the Green Party and Sir Bob Russell, who is standing
:43:53. > :44:15.All these vacancies be filled? The reality is, that is a funding
:44:16. > :44:21.problem which has to be addressed. We are the only party with joined up
:44:22. > :44:30.the NHS I tackling the likes of air the NHS I tackling the likes of air
:44:31. > :44:35.quality pollution. To tackle stress problems. Only by having that joined
:44:36. > :44:37.up approach on prevention which we do, can you get the long-term
:44:38. > :44:43.funding of the NHS fireball. Colchester Hospital has
:44:44. > :44:44.faced huge challenges. And it is not going
:44:45. > :44:48.to get any better. Nurse numbers going down,
:44:49. > :45:03.population increasing, Colchester had the ?21 million
:45:04. > :45:13.deficit. That is the picture across the region. If it was not for all
:45:14. > :45:22.these medical people from the European Union, without that stuff
:45:23. > :45:27.whose future know is very uncertain, the situation in the NHS would be
:45:28. > :45:31.even worse. We are promising to put that 1p on income tax cuts we need
:45:32. > :45:36.to raise the money. Under the to raise the money. Under the
:45:37. > :45:50.Conservative Party, the NHS is not safe. We will look at the European
:45:51. > :45:57.Union Sabre. No one is arguing that we will not let people and with the
:45:58. > :45:58.rate skill and ability into the country after we leave the
:45:59. > :46:04.Union. But many of these workers are Union. But many of these workers are
:46:05. > :46:12.not from the European Union. They are from oak with the. But how is
:46:13. > :46:21.this going to be paid for? We are the only party being truthful about
:46:22. > :46:27.this. People are being fleeced by another policy announcement by
:46:28. > :46:34.taxation rises. We are fairly clear. We will reduce foreign need in order
:46:35. > :46:41.to pay for the NHS. We are the only party who are honest about putting
:46:42. > :46:49.British people first. But what about the Green party? We will reasoning
:46:50. > :47:02.billion pounds by reducing foreign aid. We want a proper NHS. All of
:47:03. > :47:13.the other parties are not supporting properly the NHS. If we get a
:47:14. > :47:17.landslide conservative government, privatisation will be speeded up.
:47:18. > :47:23.They are floating the idea that people will have to pay for doctors.
:47:24. > :47:33.The only solution is better clear and preventative measures. These two
:47:34. > :47:38.go hand-in-hand. Before the last Conservative government, they were
:47:39. > :47:43.less privatisations. Privatisation started under the Labour Party and.
:47:44. > :47:50.We need to stop the be Dover. At one point, Ukip was talking about
:47:51. > :47:53.an American-style insurance system. We are talking figures on the sides
:47:54. > :48:03.of buses again, are we? No, we have been said that foreign
:48:04. > :48:11.residents should not be allowed to come in here and use the NHS is a
:48:12. > :48:18.tourism venue. Health tourism needs to be stopped. Everybody coming into
:48:19. > :48:25.this country needs to have health insurance so that they pay the way.
:48:26. > :48:30.It is not just about finance. It is about training. The shortage in
:48:31. > :48:37.nursing staff has been there for a long time. When we are talking about
:48:38. > :48:43.nurses may be having to pay their own tuition fees, we are harking
:48:44. > :48:46.back to previous claims. But he were agree it is a huge challenge?
:48:47. > :48:49.Undoubtedly. Now, it seems this snap election
:48:50. > :48:52.is proving to be unusual in more It has emerged that some parties
:48:53. > :48:55.are making calculations Although Ukip may struggle
:48:56. > :48:59.to get any of its own MPs into Parliament this election,
:49:00. > :49:01.it could still have a big impact And the Green Party has stood down
:49:02. > :49:06.in North Norfolk, to support The move follows Ukip's
:49:07. > :49:15.announcement that it would not field a candidate
:49:16. > :49:17.in North Norfolk, in Mr Lamb, who is anti-Brexit,
:49:18. > :49:20.anti-Brexit, has more than 8,000 people
:49:21. > :49:25.voted for Ukip. So, Ukip is calling on its
:49:26. > :49:28.supporters to vote Conservative. The people who voted
:49:29. > :49:30.Ukip in 2015, I do not think they will naturally
:49:31. > :49:32.gravitate to the Conservatives. I think many of them will have
:49:33. > :49:35.supported Norman and the Liberal Democrats in the past
:49:36. > :49:38.and we will be working hard to Ukip has also decided not
:49:39. > :49:47.to stand in Peterborough, where Conservative Stuart Jackson
:49:48. > :49:49.has a majority of just under 2,000 Ukip hopes the 7,000 people
:49:50. > :49:54.who voted for them two years ago will now back Mr Jackson,
:49:55. > :50:01.to ensure a pro-Brexit is elected. I guess it will be helpful,
:50:02. > :50:04.because a lot of these Ukip voters were formerly Conservative
:50:05. > :50:06.voters and I think people now realise that there is really not
:50:07. > :50:09.much point in voting Ukip. Theresa May is going to take
:50:10. > :50:13.us out and we need all Labour, which is standing in both
:50:14. > :50:22.North Norfolk and Peterborough, is dismissive of the move
:50:23. > :50:25.and believes many Ukip voters People have voted Ukip
:50:26. > :50:29.for many reasons, not least, to leave the European Union,
:50:30. > :50:31.which has happened. But they also voted Ukip because
:50:32. > :50:33.they were worried about housing, affordable housing, public
:50:34. > :50:35.services, the NHS the NHS. And those are the things Labour
:50:36. > :50:44.are now promising to deliver on. And you can see a full list
:50:45. > :50:47.of who is standing in North Norfolk Ukip has also announced that it
:50:48. > :50:51.will not be standing against keen Tory Brexiteers,
:50:52. > :50:53.like Philip Hollobone or, more surprisingly,
:50:54. > :50:57.Labour's Kelvin Hopkins. In fact, Ukip is not fielding any
:50:58. > :51:00.candidate across Bedfordshire, It is taking on
:51:01. > :51:09.Labour's Gavin Shuker who both supported Remain
:51:10. > :51:12.in the referendum. I am joined by Professor
:51:13. > :51:14.Paul Whiteley, from Is this a new phenomenon -
:51:15. > :51:35.parties deciding not to To some extent. But I do not think
:51:36. > :51:46.Ukip are being totally honest when they are talking about these
:51:47. > :51:53.strategic reasons. They are not fighting at a number of seats where
:51:54. > :51:58.they are incumbent Eurosceptics. A local level, it looks like a number
:51:59. > :52:03.of the candidates have dropped out. They were badly hit by the local
:52:04. > :52:09.elections and they are concerned about losing deposits in the
:52:10. > :52:12.election. I think the performance has been pure.
:52:13. > :52:15.Is what we are seeing a political move or is it practical -
:52:16. > :52:21.down to a lack of resources, money and candidates?
:52:22. > :52:28.They are trying to pit eat good course on a bad situation after what
:52:29. > :52:30.amounted to a disaster at the local elections.
:52:31. > :52:32.And in your experience, do voters mind being told
:52:33. > :52:38.to "lend their vote" to another party?
:52:39. > :52:47.There are a number of organisations planning to do this. But when we do
:52:48. > :52:54.any surveys of individual members of the public, whether they will vote
:52:55. > :52:58.tactically, only about 5% ever see that the will. There could be
:52:59. > :53:04.important in some constituencies, but overall in the country as a
:53:05. > :53:08.whole, it is not that important. In the case of Ukip, they are
:53:09. > :53:10.perpetually feuding fewer candidates across the country than the Green
:53:11. > :53:19.party. -- feuding. The After last week's local election
:53:20. > :53:34.defeats, is it the end for Ukip? eight do not. In the elections in
:53:35. > :53:44.France, the National front, which is similar, got 11 million votes in
:53:45. > :53:48.France. They represent a constituency which still exists in
:53:49. > :53:53.Britain and in the rest of Europe. People who feel left behind. They
:53:54. > :54:01.feel the government does not work for them. That will continue. If
:54:02. > :54:07.Brexit it proves to be a huge problem and create economic problems
:54:08. > :54:11.in this region, then I think support for the year will come back. But at
:54:12. > :54:22.the moment, the other at the low point. You are putting a positive
:54:23. > :54:33.gloss on this. It is all about resources. The last thing for your
:54:34. > :54:44.speaker said was true, but I was rather sceptical about the rest of
:54:45. > :54:50.it. It is not just about Brexit. For many people who voted for us and we
:54:51. > :55:01.saw this play out in the local elections, the Prime Minister
:55:02. > :55:04.basically said Brexit was in danger because the Liberal Democrats and
:55:05. > :55:10.the Labour Party will gang up. You will not get what you democratically
:55:11. > :55:18.opted for. Many people are believing the Prime Minister. They were very
:55:19. > :55:25.worried about the Liberal Democrats and Labour policy on Brexit. That
:55:26. > :55:35.puts us in a difficult position. We do not want Brexit to be
:55:36. > :55:37.compromised. We guarantee she will start backtracking like you have
:55:38. > :55:47.never seen before and after the selection. How do you feel about the
:55:48. > :55:53.situation in North Norfolk? We have got people via whom 812 fought for
:55:54. > :56:04.the Green party but they are being denied that. There's a tiny handful
:56:05. > :56:10.of seats which may be contentious, with the result is not certain. But
:56:11. > :56:16.we think it is important they are to have cooperation with other parties.
:56:17. > :56:20.In the vast majority of seats, there will be a party from the Green
:56:21. > :56:25.party. But one consequence of the stupid election system is that
:56:26. > :56:37.people can vote for whoever they want. Many of the seats are already
:56:38. > :56:44.predetermined, which is another reason that we need proportional
:56:45. > :56:56.representation. Norman Lamb has been terrific. You are grateful for the
:56:57. > :57:01.support of Green party voters? I am happy for the support of anyone who
:57:02. > :57:05.recognises the work that Norman Lamb has done there. The last thing this
:57:06. > :57:07.country wants is a landslide for the country wants is a landslide for the
:57:08. > :57:14.Conservative government. Now, sealed with a kiss,
:57:15. > :57:16.in our our 60 Second round-up of the week,
:57:17. > :57:18.with Deborah McGurran. On the first day of proper
:57:19. > :57:20.campaigning for the general election,
:57:21. > :57:21.Theresa May came to Norwich, with a promise that Brexit
:57:22. > :57:34.will open up new job for the region. The enthusiasm of
:57:35. > :57:36.the young people shows that I think this is going to be
:57:37. > :57:39.great, in ensuring they have got the skills needed for the jobs
:57:40. > :57:41.of the future, but also in developing
:57:42. > :57:43.the economy of the future. School funding in Cambridgeshire
:57:44. > :57:46.came under the spotlight this week, where there are long-running
:57:47. > :57:47.concerns about per-pupil We can get that, partly by scrapping
:57:48. > :57:54.some of the Tory vanity projects there are, like the huge
:57:55. > :57:57.amounts of money being put towards new free schools,
:57:58. > :57:59.school which are undersubscribed, which do not have
:58:00. > :58:05.enough people coming in. The important thing about this is,
:58:06. > :58:08.what employers tell me they need is skilled workers.
:58:09. > :58:10.And it is our education system which will provide
:58:11. > :58:12.these skills in the future. And Paul Nuttall took
:58:13. > :58:14.the fight to Basildon, in the wake of Ukip's county council
:58:15. > :58:17.defeats last week. It has been a difficult
:58:18. > :58:19.time for the party. What Ukip needs to do is stay
:58:20. > :58:22.on the pitch, because if it does, our positive policies will come
:58:23. > :58:25.back onto the table. And the party leader was happy
:58:26. > :58:28.to demonstrate that his enthusiasm Education.
:58:29. > :58:39.The fair funding formula. Would the Lib Dems re
:58:40. > :58:53.calculate the fair funding We believe in additional funding.
:58:54. > :58:58.?400 million across the east of England. I am supporting the union
:58:59. > :59:06.campaign to stop the privatisation of education. Never mind the NHS
:59:07. > :59:13.being privatised, we are also seeing education being privatised.
:59:14. > :59:15.Remember, Margaret Thatcher did away with more grammar schools than any
:59:16. > :59:18.previous Education Secretary. You want to get rid of academies,
:59:19. > :59:21.but their track record on raising standards in failing
:59:22. > :59:35.schools is a good one. Academies do not act as easy a
:59:36. > :59:41.school which takes and everyone in the local area, so that is a sense
:59:42. > :59:45.of bias. We have other key priorities for education. We want
:59:46. > :59:50.children out into the natural world, rather than being stuck behind a
:59:51. > :59:57.desk. That is proven to be better for the health. And we want to stop
:59:58. > :00:02.all you shouldn't. Not just pollution from the atmosphere but
:00:03. > :00:04.the likes of pollution from advertising. The likes of
:00:05. > :00:06.Scandinavian countries have done that.
:00:07. > :00:08.You want to bring back grammar schools, yet scrap GCSEs
:00:09. > :00:11.for those who decided to go down the technical qualifications route.
:00:12. > :00:15.Doesn't that feel like the old grammar versus secondary moderns?
:00:16. > :00:24.More than technical colleges are nothing like the old comprehensives.
:00:25. > :00:28.But the real issue is how we fund education properly. Smoke and
:00:29. > :00:37.mirrors from the traditional parties. We have seen an 8% cut in
:00:38. > :00:42.education funding. Teachers cannot do their job properly. It is not
:00:43. > :00:48.often you see people in public service standing out scene, our
:00:49. > :00:52.industry is terribly underfunded. We will be back next
:00:53. > :00:57.week with the latest Tories are saying. It is a very
:00:58. > :01:04.emotive subject and we have run out of time.
:01:05. > :01:09.On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary
:01:10. > :01:11.seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's
:01:12. > :01:19.We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out
:01:20. > :01:21.what they might tell us about the make-up of the House
:01:22. > :01:26.Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and
:01:27. > :01:31.analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that
:01:32. > :01:33.in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave
:01:34. > :01:41.during last year's referendum campaign
:01:42. > :01:43.and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public
:01:44. > :01:49.In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs
:01:50. > :01:52.were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour
:01:53. > :01:58.Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats
:01:59. > :02:01.17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.
:02:02. > :02:05.20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest
:02:06. > :02:09.or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and
:02:10. > :02:15.If they won those, the Labour benches would be
:02:16. > :02:18.marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.
:02:19. > :02:20.What do the figures tell us about where the other
:02:21. > :02:24.Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens
:02:25. > :02:26.in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629
:02:27. > :02:28.candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.
:02:29. > :02:32.The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.
:02:33. > :02:38.They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,
:02:39. > :02:41.throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories
:02:42. > :02:45.in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.
:02:46. > :02:49.The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates
:02:50. > :02:59.than at the last election, standing down to help
:03:00. > :03:06.other progressive candidates in some places.
:03:07. > :03:18.The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this
:03:19. > :03:25.their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip
:03:26. > :03:28.candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in
:03:29. > :03:38.the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank
:03:39. > :03:43.Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this
:03:44. > :03:45.election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if
:03:46. > :03:50.you take the things together that could explain why the polls are
:03:51. > :03:55.where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start
:03:56. > :04:00.of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we
:04:01. > :04:08.started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the
:04:09. > :04:12.size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,
:04:13. > :04:18.but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their
:04:19. > :04:22.only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because
:04:23. > :04:30.they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the
:04:31. > :04:33.impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible
:04:34. > :04:41.thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,
:04:42. > :04:47.consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,
:04:48. > :04:52.it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to
:04:53. > :04:58.fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour
:04:59. > :05:03.Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same
:05:04. > :05:06.votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on
:05:07. > :05:12.the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It
:05:13. > :05:18.happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own
:05:19. > :05:21.fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the
:05:22. > :05:26.dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of
:05:27. > :05:31.the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a
:05:32. > :05:36.way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on
:05:37. > :05:40.the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the
:05:41. > :05:44.right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to
:05:45. > :05:51.the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be
:05:52. > :05:55.outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she
:05:56. > :05:58.is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.
:05:59. > :06:01.What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes
:06:02. > :06:07.ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not
:06:08. > :06:11.declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have
:06:12. > :06:15.thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,
:06:16. > :06:20.that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's
:06:21. > :06:25.about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of
:06:26. > :06:31.Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even
:06:32. > :06:36.have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.
:06:37. > :06:40.I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put
:06:41. > :06:46.it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because
:06:47. > :06:53.of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is
:06:54. > :06:57.coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet
:06:58. > :07:01.sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it
:07:02. > :07:08.will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you
:07:09. > :07:12.will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never
:07:13. > :07:22.have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.
:07:23. > :07:27.When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I
:07:28. > :07:32.would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my
:07:33. > :07:36.excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most
:07:37. > :07:44.important day for the British government for the next five years.
:07:45. > :07:50.That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even
:07:51. > :07:57.being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and
:07:58. > :08:01.it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it
:08:02. > :08:06.safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might
:08:07. > :08:11.be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to
:08:12. > :08:16.do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a
:08:17. > :08:20.year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out
:08:21. > :08:23.what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next
:08:24. > :08:26.parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next
:08:27. > :08:31.important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate
:08:32. > :08:42.for that if the polls are right but she
:08:43. > :08:46.does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a
:08:47. > :08:48.country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different
:08:49. > :08:51.ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.
:08:52. > :08:54.You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on
:08:55. > :08:58.implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly
:08:59. > :09:01.pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it
:09:02. > :09:05.will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the
:09:06. > :09:10.line which interests me about its time to look at the good that
:09:11. > :09:17.government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK
:09:18. > :09:20.politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure
:09:21. > :09:24.about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne
:09:25. > :09:29.government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about
:09:30. > :09:33.the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently
:09:34. > :09:37.doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether
:09:38. > :09:42.it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory
:09:43. > :09:50.message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted
:09:51. > :09:55.Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so
:09:56. > :09:59.on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with
:10:00. > :10:04.it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does
:10:05. > :10:09.deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of
:10:10. > :10:18.this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to
:10:19. > :10:20.someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May
:10:21. > :10:24.never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office
:10:25. > :10:32.briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.
:10:33. > :10:40.So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick
:10:41. > :10:45.Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be
:10:46. > :10:51.interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be
:10:52. > :11:00.talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the
:11:01. > :11:05.suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much
:11:06. > :11:11.Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington
:11:12. > :11:15.Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class
:11:16. > :11:20.voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government
:11:21. > :11:24.out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help
:11:25. > :11:36.their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of
:11:37. > :11:39.what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it
:11:40. > :11:48.suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the
:11:49. > :11:53.boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing
:11:54. > :11:58.happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015
:11:59. > :12:01.manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably
:12:02. > :12:06.had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference
:12:07. > :12:11.speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If
:12:12. > :12:15.she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will
:12:16. > :12:19.have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will
:12:20. > :12:25.be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming
:12:26. > :12:28.issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant
:12:29. > :12:33.development in terms of an argument around the role of government,
:12:34. > :12:38.much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As
:12:39. > :12:42.much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear
:12:43. > :12:50.strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,
:12:51. > :12:55.and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are
:12:56. > :12:59.all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks
:13:00. > :13:01.to our panel. The Daily Politics will be
:13:02. > :13:04.back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time
:13:05. > :13:08.on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,
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:13:43. > :13:46.I'd watch anything... But now I can sign in online
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