:00:42. > :00:44.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:44. > :00:48.There's a new word circulating the Westminster village these days.
:00:48. > :00:53.It's not in the Oxford English Dictionary. It begins with O, and
:00:53. > :00:56.it means "a bit of a mess". The word is "omnishambles". And it was
:00:56. > :01:00.used just the other day by Labour leader Ed Milliband, to describe
:01:01. > :01:04.the coalition government. It's not the best backdrop for the
:01:04. > :01:06.coalition parties, as they head for elections on May 3rd. It's a
:01:06. > :01:10.particular headache for the Liberal Democrats, who were already
:01:10. > :01:16.suffering in the polls. We'll be talking to Deputy Prime Minister
:01:16. > :01:19.Nick Clegg, in our Sunday Interview. His latest mission, to reform the
:01:19. > :01:22.House of Lords, will be making the headlines tomorrow. But there won't
:01:22. > :01:27.be coalition consensus. We'll have the latest from the Tory
:01:27. > :01:30.backbenches. And, our political panel of the
:01:30. > :01:32.best and the brightest, here every week to analyse British politics in
:01:32. > :01:41.The Week Ahead, and tweeting uncontrollably throughout the
:01:41. > :01:51.In London: After an enforced four- year sabbatical, Ken Livingstone
:01:51. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :02:05.seeks to win back City Hall. He All that in the next hour. But
:02:06. > :02:08.Good afternoon. Michael Brown, a convicted fraudster who was once a
:02:08. > :02:11.major donor to the Liberal Democrats, has been extradited from
:02:11. > :02:14.the Dominican Republic. It's believed he'll be returned to
:02:14. > :02:19.Britain, where he faces a seven- year jail sentence. Our political
:02:20. > :02:24.correspondent Louise Stewart reports.
:02:24. > :02:29.And this is Michael Brown, if convicted conman and fugitive,
:02:29. > :02:34.arrested after three years on the run. Michael, are you going back to
:02:34. > :02:38.Britain? He refused to say anything injury whilst in jail in the
:02:38. > :02:43.Dominican Republic. He had been living there using a false name,
:02:43. > :02:50.Darren Nally, after absconding to the Caribbean. He was convicted in
:02:50. > :02:54.his absence in London in 2008 and sentenced to seven years. He gave
:02:54. > :02:58.�2.4 million to the Lib Dems in 2005 when the party was led by
:02:58. > :03:02.Charles Kennedy, making him their biggest donor. The Lib Dems have
:03:02. > :03:12.said they support any moves to bring Mr Brown to justice. In a
:03:12. > :03:15.
:03:15. > :03:20.The millionaire lifestyle in the Dominican Republic came to an end
:03:20. > :03:24.when police arrested him for skipping payments on �14,000 a
:03:24. > :03:29.month apartments. He was flown to Madrid yesterday, where he will
:03:29. > :03:34.face extradition early next week. He could return within 10 days.
:03:34. > :03:36.Police here say they are pleased after four years Mr Brown is now a
:03:36. > :03:39.step closer to start in his prison sentence.
:03:39. > :03:43.Voting is underway, in the first round of the French presidential
:03:43. > :03:46.election. President Nicolas Sarkozy cast his vote in Paris. The man
:03:46. > :03:49.thought to be his main rival, the socialist Francois Hollande, has
:03:49. > :03:53.also voted. Turn-out so far has been lower than five years ago. A
:03:54. > :03:57.total of ten candidates are taking part.
:03:57. > :04:01.In the last hour, the Formula One Grand Prix in Bahrain has got
:04:01. > :04:03.underway, despite calls for it to be cancelled. It follows two days
:04:03. > :04:11.of political unrest and demonstrations, and the death of a
:04:11. > :04:15.protester. Dan Roan has just sent this report.
:04:15. > :04:19.The start of one of the most contentious Grand Prix is in recent
:04:20. > :04:24.years. In the build up to the race, the noise of engines had been
:04:24. > :04:28.drowned out by that of protests. Bahrain's most prestigious sporting
:04:28. > :04:33.event has been the focus of three days of rage, and seen the death of
:04:33. > :04:36.one prominent protester. Security on the roads surrounding the
:04:36. > :04:40.circuit this morning. The authorities feeling nothing to
:04:40. > :04:46.chance. A series of checkpoints and armed guards, and searching on the
:04:46. > :04:50.gates. Once inside this circuit, the atmosphere is relaxed. It feels
:04:50. > :04:57.like Formula One, business as usual. It could be any other grand prix in
:04:57. > :05:03.the calendar. So far, the race is safe and in order. Today, they
:05:03. > :05:08.decided they wanted to have the race. The FIA checked it and agreed
:05:08. > :05:13.to do it. If all three parties agree, yes. For now at least, the
:05:13. > :05:17.focus has returned to the action on the track. But this race looks set
:05:17. > :05:20.to be remembered not for its winner but the controversy it provoked.
:05:20. > :05:24.37,000 people have been taking part in the London marathon. Kenyan
:05:24. > :05:27.athletes won both elite races. Wilson Kipsang in the men's contest.
:05:28. > :05:31.While Mary Keitany won the women's event for the second year in a row.
:05:31. > :05:34.Britain's David Weir won the men's wheelchair race for the sixth time.
:05:34. > :05:40.Prince Harry, who presented the prizes, joked that the Duke and
:05:40. > :05:46.Duchess of Cambridge would run next year.
:05:46. > :05:50.That's it. There's more news here on BBC One, at 6.20pm. Andrew.
:05:50. > :05:53.No one cares about it, according to the polls. But this week, it's the
:05:53. > :05:56.one topic that's going to give the coalition one mighty headache.
:05:56. > :05:59.Tomorrow, an all-party committee of peers and MPs will publish its
:05:59. > :06:03.proposals for reforming the House of Lords. The project is currently
:06:04. > :06:07.at the top of Nick Clegg's agenda. We'll be talking to him in just a
:06:07. > :06:15.few minutes. But first, let's talk to the Shadow Justice Secretary,
:06:15. > :06:20.Labour's Sadiq Khan. The minister Khan, you are in
:06:20. > :06:24.favour of Lords reform. But let me asking you about Theresa May. You
:06:24. > :06:28.have described her handling of the Abu Qatada case as a shambolic.
:06:28. > :06:33.Isn't she just trying to solve a problem which the Labour government
:06:33. > :06:38.had failed to solve over more than 10 years? Huge progress was made
:06:38. > :06:43.during the course of us being in government. We obtained assurances
:06:43. > :06:48.from Jordan, which guaranteed if he were to return, he would not be
:06:48. > :06:54.tortured. The European Court has accepted those assurances. As we
:06:54. > :06:59.have seen, this government has used party politics as a motivator for
:06:59. > :07:05.policy announcements, the budget, france is maud, the theatre we had
:07:05. > :07:09.on Tuesday, where the motivation was to get great TV pictures of Abu
:07:09. > :07:14.Qatada being arrested rather than checking we got the dates right and
:07:14. > :07:19.the legal process could be executed. What you were not able to do in 10
:07:20. > :07:24.years, she has not been able to do in two. We agree this man should be
:07:24. > :07:29.extradited. We have said to Theresa May what she should have done as
:07:29. > :07:34.soon as the European Court judged three months ago, was straight away
:07:34. > :07:38.the government should have been on the phone or gone to Jordan to get
:07:38. > :07:42.further assurances required, to make sure when and if Abu Qatada
:07:42. > :07:47.goes into Jordan, the evidence obtained through torture cannot be
:07:47. > :07:51.used against him. We are pleased we have got those assurances. The
:07:51. > :07:56.question is, how is it the Home Secretary can get the dates wrong
:07:56. > :08:01.and be more concerned by good TV pictures, rather than getting him
:08:01. > :08:06.extradited to Jordan. Let us come on to Lords reform. You
:08:06. > :08:12.are in favour. But you want a referendum on the issue. Is that a
:08:12. > :08:18.deal breaker? Let me explain. haven't got that much time. Is
:08:18. > :08:25.having a referendum a deal breaker? It is in our manifesto. Reports
:08:25. > :08:35.from the Joint Committee, to be published tomorrow, say the
:08:35. > :08:35.
:08:35. > :08:39.recommendations are a referendum -- recommendation. It is a simple
:08:39. > :08:45.question. If you don't get a referendum, we are not support
:08:45. > :08:50.reform? We are not sure what the joint committee will say or the
:08:50. > :08:57.government in response. Our policy is quite clear. We say, let the
:08:57. > :09:02.people decide. It is for us to hear what the government will do. If you
:09:02. > :09:07.don't get a referendum, we you suppose Lords reform? We need to
:09:07. > :09:12.see what the details are from the government. That is my simple
:09:12. > :09:16.answer. It is not an answer. When there is major constitutional
:09:16. > :09:21.reform of this scale, it is proper for the people to decide whether it
:09:21. > :09:23.should go ahead. You still haven't told me if it will be a deal
:09:23. > :09:26.breaker. A head of steam against Lords
:09:26. > :09:30.reform has been building in the Tory Party. At a meeting of Tory
:09:30. > :09:33.backbenchers last week, MP after MP stood up to condemn the proposed
:09:33. > :09:36.reforms. This morning, there are reports that the revolt has spread
:09:36. > :09:40.to the Cabinet, with at least five Tory ministers against Lords reform.
:09:40. > :09:48.Some are even predicting it could break the coalition. We're joined
:09:48. > :09:52.now from Shropshire by senior Conservative MP Mark Pritchard.
:09:53. > :09:56.Welcome to the programme. You are a shop steward for the Tory
:09:56. > :10:02.backbenches. The House of Lords reform will be the centrepiece of
:10:02. > :10:08.the Queen's Speech in a few weeks. RUH -- are your Conservative
:10:08. > :10:11.backbenchers happy about that? think the majority say that the
:10:11. > :10:16.priority in the legislative timetable should not be a House of
:10:16. > :10:21.Lords reform, but should be growth, getting people into jobs, growing
:10:21. > :10:26.the prosperity of our nation. I noted the deputy promised it is on
:10:26. > :10:30.your show. The question to him is, should this be a priority when the
:10:30. > :10:34.country is tiptoeing out of recession, with all the other
:10:34. > :10:40.challenges the country faces? For the majority of Conservative MPs
:10:40. > :10:45.and my constituents, I am afraid House of Lords reform is just not a
:10:45. > :10:53.priority. What will you and your colleagues do, when it comes before
:10:53. > :11:02.the House of Commons? We will have to wait and see what the joint
:11:02. > :11:06.committee says. You must have a pretty good idea? If there is a
:11:06. > :11:12.call for a referendum, this will be a fundamental constitutional change
:11:12. > :11:15.to the way Parliament works. Then it would be very difficult for both
:11:15. > :11:20.the Deputy Prime Minister, and the Prime Minister, for the government
:11:20. > :11:24.as a whole, to go to the country on a referendum on House of Lords
:11:24. > :11:32.reform, but denied referendum on the European question. We know the
:11:32. > :11:37.majority of people in this country are carrying -- cried out for a
:11:37. > :11:42.referendum on Europe. I don't hear many clamouring for a referendum on
:11:42. > :11:47.reform. So they can be separated. A headache for the government. Or
:11:47. > :11:51.tented is to drive it through Parliament. I don't think that will
:11:51. > :11:55.be successful. Either way, the government is between a rock and a
:11:55. > :12:00.hard place. It doesn't have to be if we don't drive through with
:12:00. > :12:04.house of Lords reform, which was not part of the coalition agreement.
:12:04. > :12:09.The 1922 Committee of Conservative backbenchers, had a meeting last
:12:09. > :12:16.week. We are told the mood was unpleasant over Lords reform. How
:12:16. > :12:19.would you describe it? I think people have strong views. They've
:12:19. > :12:22.been there priority for the government, including our junior
:12:22. > :12:27.partners, the Liberal Democrats, should be growing the economy,
:12:27. > :12:34.getting people back into jobs, ensuring the country prospers. It
:12:34. > :12:38.is not about Lords reform. The polls show only 6% of the public
:12:38. > :12:44.care about this issue. I think, the one labelled the government has to
:12:44. > :12:47.be careful not to have attached to it, and it may stick, is that it is
:12:47. > :12:52.out of touch. If we drive ahead with Lords reform, it would easily
:12:52. > :13:00.have that label on it, that the government is out of touch. I don't
:13:00. > :13:10.believe the Conservative backbench is out of touch. The government
:13:10. > :13:13.should listen. To make growth of this nation a priority.
:13:13. > :13:17.Thank you very much. Now, to Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, the high
:13:17. > :13:20.stakes gambler, whom many think is risking too much on reform of the
:13:20. > :13:23.Lords. Can he pull it off, without shattering the coalition? Does
:13:23. > :13:26.anybody care? Doesn't he have anything better to do? After all,
:13:27. > :13:29.it's been a torrid few weeks for the government, and the forecast
:13:29. > :13:33.for the Liberal Democrats is not encouraging.
:13:33. > :13:36.One poll, published in the Sun last week, places the Liberal Democrats
:13:36. > :13:39.in fourth place, behind the UK Independence Party And in the
:13:39. > :13:44.Bradford West by-election last month, won by George Galloway of
:13:44. > :13:47.Respect, the Liberal Democrats came fourth and lost their deposit. The
:13:47. > :13:53.party faces a difficult set of local elections.
:13:53. > :13:57.In 2011, they lost 778 seats and The biggest reduction of
:13:57. > :14:00.councillors for the party since 1977.
:14:00. > :14:02.This year, they are fielding fewer candidates in England than the
:14:02. > :14:06.Conservatives and Labour. 1,552 candidates, compared to 2,151
:14:06. > :14:16.for the Tories, and 2120 for Labour, which some commentators have put
:14:16. > :14:22.
:14:22. > :14:25.Last week, the Lib Dem leader said that he has had to make "painful
:14:25. > :14:28.compromises". And there are tricky issues still ahead for the
:14:28. > :14:38.coalition, including Lords reform, and plans for increased internet
:14:38. > :14:46.
:14:46. > :14:53.And the Deputy Prime Minister is Nick Clegg, welcome. Good to have
:14:53. > :14:58.you back. These proposals on Lords reform. When you settle for
:14:58. > :15:06.anything less than a largely democratic chamber elected by
:15:06. > :15:11.I think the principle that the people who make the laws of the
:15:11. > :15:14.land should be elected by the laws of the land should strike people as
:15:14. > :15:17.fairly uncontroversial. I know it creates heat and fury in the
:15:17. > :15:26.Westminster village. I think we should get on with it now with
:15:26. > :15:28.your views, our priority as the government of course remains
:15:28. > :15:33.rescuing and repairing the British economy, it does not mean we can do
:15:33. > :15:38.other things like introducing some democracy into the House of Lords.
:15:38. > :15:42.We have established, almost by convention, but before major
:15:42. > :15:48.constitutional change we have a referendum. We had one for Scottish
:15:48. > :15:54.devolution, we will have one for Scottish independence, we had one
:15:55. > :16:00.for the referendum, why a if this is a major change of 1,000 years of
:16:00. > :16:04.history, why not a referendum on reform of the Lords? People have to
:16:04. > :16:07.answer the question, why is it we should spend a great deal of money,
:16:07. > :16:11.millions of pounds of taxpayers' money, asking the British people a
:16:11. > :16:15.question which frankly people do not worry about very much, and on
:16:15. > :16:20.which there is consensus between the three main parties. All three
:16:20. > :16:24.parties, Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives have a
:16:24. > :16:27.commitment for Lords reform. To sub-contract to the British people
:16:27. > :16:31.an issue which the politicians at Westminster cannot deal with is
:16:31. > :16:35.asking a lot of the British people when last year we did have a
:16:35. > :16:41.referendum. But that was a issue where there was a stark difference
:16:41. > :16:46.of opinion. That is not the case here. Do remember the composition
:16:46. > :16:49.of the House of Lords has changed radically over the last 20 years.
:16:49. > :16:54.No one went to a referendum to ask the British people for permission
:16:54. > :16:57.to now stuff the House of Lords with political appointees. Over 70
:16:57. > :17:02.% of people in the House of Lords are there because people like me,
:17:02. > :17:06.Ed Miliband and David Cameron put them there. Nobody asked the
:17:06. > :17:09.British people for that kind of industrial scale patronage and I
:17:09. > :17:14.think now asking people something which most people would consider
:17:14. > :17:17.perfectly normal, which is to have that a bit of democracy in our
:17:17. > :17:23.legislative chamber in Westminster, would strike most people as an
:17:23. > :17:28.unnecessary 10 of the wheel. People will wonder we are having a
:17:28. > :17:35.referendum for Coventry to decide whether we have an air but not for
:17:35. > :17:41.the House of Lords -- Coventry to have a mayor. Why not have it?
:17:41. > :17:46.Unlike the, you would probably win this one. Firstly, this is not a
:17:46. > :17:50.unilateral decision by me. You are quite right, with any major
:17:50. > :17:54.constitutional issue which should work on a painstaking business of
:17:54. > :17:57.trying to find cross-party consensus. Batters the spirit of
:17:57. > :18:03.which I have always worked. I have reached out to members of the
:18:03. > :18:07.Conservative Party and Labour Party. Say you would not rule out a
:18:07. > :18:10.referendum if your back was against the wall? The people who want to
:18:10. > :18:15.advocate a referendum, and it is for them to explain why we should
:18:15. > :18:17.spend millions of pounds on this, and why we should create a
:18:17. > :18:22.monumental distraction of a referendum, on an issue where all
:18:22. > :18:27.parties agree, when Our central purpose as the Government remains
:18:27. > :18:31.sorting out the economic mess that we inherited. Regardless of whether
:18:31. > :18:36.you have a referendum or not, if you don't get Lords reform because
:18:36. > :18:39.of backbench Tory resistance, they just will not vote with you, will
:18:39. > :18:43.you withdraw Lib Dem support for the boundary changes which the
:18:43. > :18:48.Tories do want? There is quite a lot of pressure to do otherwise but
:18:48. > :18:53.we have not indulged in tit-for-tat selective choice about which part
:18:53. > :18:56.of the coalition agreement we are going to support or not. We all
:18:56. > :19:00.entered into this government, knowing that no one had won a
:19:00. > :19:05.majority, no one had the right to triumph completely over the other
:19:05. > :19:09.side and secondly, we had a clear programme of reforms that we wanted
:19:09. > :19:13.to introduce. I have asked Liberal Democrat, MPs and peers to back a
:19:13. > :19:17.number of things, whether it was the NHS bill and a number of things
:19:17. > :19:21.which they did not like at all but I did it because it was in the
:19:21. > :19:24.spirit of coalition and I would like -- I would ask all people to
:19:24. > :19:29.continue to govern in that spirit because it is what the British
:19:29. > :19:33.people want. We have shown that we can hang together and govern in the
:19:33. > :19:40.national interest. You say that put your concern at the moment is an
:19:40. > :19:44.elected House of Lords. It is not my only concern. I did not say that.
:19:44. > :19:50.It will be a big part of the Queen's Speech. But you seem to be
:19:50. > :19:56.out of touch on this. It is not a burning issue in the country. Look
:19:56. > :20:02.at this from a recent poll. It shows 1% regarded it as an
:20:02. > :20:06.important issue. Absolutely. are out of touch. There are many
:20:06. > :20:10.things you deal within politics that you know why a significant but
:20:10. > :20:14.are not the subject of conversation in the pub or round the kitchen
:20:14. > :20:19.table. World trade rules are immensely important to this country
:20:19. > :20:23.but it is not something which has ever been raised with me on the
:20:23. > :20:28.doorstep as I go round canvassing in my Sheffield constituency. Just
:20:28. > :20:31.because something has not talked about in great deal, it does not
:20:31. > :20:35.mean it is not significant or important. We have had so many
:20:35. > :20:40.scandals and so many problems in our democracy, whether it is MPs'
:20:40. > :20:43.expenses, whether it is party scandals, the way the House of
:20:43. > :20:48.Lords is enumerated, I think we have an opportunity to finish a
:20:48. > :20:52.debate which has been going on for a century now. It is based on a
:20:52. > :21:01.relatively conventional view which is that people who make the laws of
:21:01. > :21:06.the land should be elected by eight people -- by the laws of the land.
:21:06. > :21:11.Are the Liberal Democrats responsible for the current
:21:11. > :21:15.omnishambles which is a word used by people in your government, as
:21:15. > :21:19.the Tories? My own view is that the issues which have dominated since
:21:19. > :21:24.the Budget, I think they are controversial for a very plain,
:21:24. > :21:29.simple reason, they are controversial. It is controversial
:21:29. > :21:34.to cap unlimited tax reliefs which benefit very wealthy people in this
:21:34. > :21:38.country. It is controversial to place VAT on one form of hot cooked
:21:38. > :21:43.food while other forms of hot cooked food have been subject to
:21:43. > :21:47.VAT for many years. I think we need to take this innocence on the chin
:21:47. > :21:50.that when there is no money left, and let's not forget that Liam
:21:50. > :21:54.Byrne reminded us of this at the time of the general election, there
:21:54. > :22:00.are no easy choices. I personally think the big judgments in the
:22:00. > :22:04.Budget will stand the test of time. A tax relief for basic rate tax
:22:04. > :22:12.payers, bring corporation tax down to the lowest level. We know the
:22:12. > :22:16.bits you like. You on the today programme last week. I want to
:22:16. > :22:23.concentrate on the things which are more unpopular. You signed off on
:22:23. > :22:28.the granny tax? Yes. The caravan Tax? Yes. The pasty tax? Yes.
:22:28. > :22:35.she did all that why is this leaflet from your party, if I can
:22:35. > :22:39.put on the screen, issued by the Lib Dems in Cornwall, stop the
:22:39. > :22:43.Tories taxing our pasties. clearly disagree with that because
:22:43. > :22:48.as you quite rightly pointed out, it was a government decision. Not
:22:48. > :22:55.popular in Cornwall. I dare say you can find Conservative candidates
:22:55. > :23:00.who will be campaigning against the so-called pasty tax. Of course I
:23:00. > :23:03.disagree with a leaflet which somehow suggests the Budget is not
:23:03. > :23:09.a coalition budget. This is a coalition budget, the centrepiece
:23:09. > :23:13.of which happens to be something very close to my heart which has a
:23:13. > :23:17.�3.5 billion tax cut for basic rate tax payers with the biggest art
:23:17. > :23:22.lived in the allowance ever. That is something I am very proud of. --
:23:22. > :23:27.up left. On the charity tax, this was not used signing off, it was
:23:28. > :23:34.your idea because you wanted a tycoon tax, where somebody paid a
:23:34. > :23:38.minimum amount of tax including using charities. This was your idea.
:23:38. > :23:44.It is all our ideas to make sure that you do not have these great
:23:44. > :23:49.big holes in the tax system without any limit whatsoever. Including
:23:49. > :23:54.charity donors? I only know one other developed economy, Australia,
:23:54. > :23:58.where you have completely unlimited tax reliefs which are only enjoyed
:23:58. > :24:02.by a very wealthy people. Let's remember, it is ordinary tax payers
:24:02. > :24:06.who have to fund those. As we made clear, as the Chancellor has made
:24:06. > :24:10.clear, the Prime Minister and myself, we will look at the details,
:24:10. > :24:14.we will consult the charities, we do not want to inhibit philanthropy
:24:14. > :24:18.or hurt charities, but the principle that we do not have a tax
:24:18. > :24:26.system which has these Gordon Brown sized holes and it has got to be a
:24:26. > :24:30.good thing. The parentage for that was you. Can I just say that I have
:24:30. > :24:34.been very candid and clear with you that this is a coalition budget
:24:34. > :24:40.from a coalition government. What I have never done and I am not going
:24:40. > :24:45.to start doing now, is to start saying, but it was -- we are going
:24:45. > :24:47.to deny and that bit we will pass Bowes. This is a coalition
:24:47. > :24:51.government governing in the national interest and we delivered
:24:51. > :24:58.a coalition budget which I believe will stand the test of time.
:24:58. > :25:02.also proposed the conservatory tax as well. The idea that if you add
:25:02. > :25:06.some improvements to your home, you have to do a lot of green things as
:25:06. > :25:10.well. That was one of your junior Lib Dem ministers who came up with
:25:10. > :25:16.that. I understand it is your job to finger. At people but I take
:25:16. > :25:20.seriously the principle that in that case, the Department for local
:25:20. > :25:23.government headed up by a Secretary of State from one party and a
:25:23. > :25:27.minister from another, they together propose a consultation.
:25:28. > :25:32.They did not say this would happen. They did not say there was going to
:25:32. > :25:36.be a green conservatory tax imposed on people. They said a reasonable
:25:36. > :25:40.question to pose is we have lots of homes and buildings which are very
:25:40. > :25:46.poorly insulated, people are paying far too much on their energy bills,
:25:46. > :25:52.they need to be insulated better. It was your party's idea. It may be
:25:52. > :25:55.good or bad. Why on earth would you want to point an act is a tree
:25:55. > :25:59.finger at the government in a local way, asking people are simple
:25:59. > :26:03.dilemma, how do we insulate our homes better which is something we
:26:03. > :26:07.will do under the green deal from this autumn and winter and onwards,
:26:07. > :26:11.so people spend less rather than more money on their energy bills.
:26:11. > :26:15.That question and that issue is a big one and it is right that we
:26:15. > :26:20.consult on it. On internet surveillance, you signed off on
:26:20. > :26:25.this in a committee that was attended by you but then in public
:26:25. > :26:32.your party runs a mile from it. did not sign off on a legislative
:26:32. > :26:36.proposal, I have not even seen it. You are making comments on the
:26:36. > :26:39.internal digestive mechanisms of government and how we make
:26:39. > :26:44.decisions. We decided at the National Security Committee that
:26:44. > :26:48.there is a dilemma. There is an issue. People are making telephone
:26:48. > :26:52.calls to each other using the means of doing so that did not do so in
:26:52. > :26:57.the past and are not captured by current statutory powers which the
:26:57. > :27:02.police and security services and joy. You need to an -- you need to
:27:02. > :27:06.update that. It has not even been discussed collectively. We have to
:27:06. > :27:11.decide exactly how to do that, how you subject back to proper
:27:11. > :27:16.parliamentary scrutiny and how you absolutely make sure, a point I
:27:16. > :27:21.made at the time, that we do not infringe basic civil liberties. It
:27:21. > :27:25.is getting back balance right. It is painstaking work and it has not
:27:25. > :27:30.been completed yet. Why are you putting up so few candidates in the
:27:30. > :27:34.local elections? We are putting up fewer but we lost a lot of
:27:34. > :27:38.councillors last year. We took a real thumping last year. What we
:27:38. > :27:43.are doing, which is normal, we are focusing our resources, focusing
:27:43. > :27:47.our candidates on those areas where we are strong and where we can
:27:47. > :27:51.campaign well and deliver for local communities. Michael Brown, your
:27:51. > :27:56.party's biggest ever donor is now being extradited from the Caribbean
:27:56. > :28:00.back to this country, he gave your party to �0.4 million, he is a
:28:00. > :28:04.convicted fraudster, you have no legal obligation to give this money
:28:05. > :28:10.back but don't you have a moral obligation? First, I should say I
:28:10. > :28:14.am very pleased that he is coming back to serve his sentence. He is a
:28:14. > :28:21.convicted -- convicted fraudster or and this happened before I was even
:28:21. > :28:28.an MP let alone lead but -- leader of the Liberal Democrats. The
:28:28. > :28:31.electoral commission in 2009 looked at this exhaustively, and they
:28:31. > :28:36.categorically concluded that the money was received in good faith
:28:36. > :28:39.and all the checks that should have been made were reasonably made by
:28:39. > :28:44.the Liberal Democrats at the time. If we had been shown wanting on
:28:44. > :28:48.those counts then of course we should pay the money back.
:28:48. > :28:54.whether you knew or not, you were in a fact in receipt of stolen
:28:54. > :28:59.goods. Don't you have a mile -- Moral majority to hand that money
:28:59. > :29:04.back? The money it was from a specific company. I think the
:29:04. > :29:09.principle is if you are to receive as a political party, money from
:29:09. > :29:12.someone and you did so on false pretences, knowingly, or you did
:29:12. > :29:19.not conduct the right checks, then of course you should pay the money
:29:19. > :29:29.back. The Electoral Commission showed that that was not the case
:29:29. > :29:36.and the Liberal Democrats were There are stories you'll stand down
:29:36. > :29:43.at the next election. Can you confirm you will fight the 2015
:29:43. > :29:48.election as Lib Dem leader? You bet. And, having done that. If
:29:48. > :29:52.Parliament results in another hung Parliament, are you up for being
:29:52. > :29:59.Deputy Prime Minister again, in a different coalition? I will save
:29:59. > :30:02.you now as I said for months before the last general election, I don't
:30:02. > :30:06.think how coalitions are formed should be the plaything of
:30:06. > :30:10.individual politicians. You should be driven by the instructions you
:30:10. > :30:15.have a seed from the British people. This is only one possible
:30:15. > :30:21.combination that could have led to stable government. We are dutifully
:30:21. > :30:23.following the mandate given to us. Thank you for being with us. It's
:30:23. > :30:29.approaching 2.30. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in
:30:29. > :30:39.20 minutes: I'll be looking at the week ahead with our political panel.
:30:39. > :30:43.
:30:43. > :30:47.Until then, the Sunday Politics Andrew, thanks very much.
:30:47. > :30:50.Welcome from us, here in London. Now, Ken Livingstone hit the ground
:30:50. > :30:53.running with a fares pledge launched right at the beginning of
:30:53. > :30:55.the year. But then, as this marathon campaign progressed, he
:30:55. > :31:00.hit the proverbial wall, with controversy over his tax
:31:00. > :31:04.arrangements. Into the final stretch, has he recovered? Can he
:31:04. > :31:12.recover? The Labour candidate is here to tell us today. So, this
:31:12. > :31:16.cannot be how you wanted or planned things to go?
:31:16. > :31:21.I'd like it to be a focus on the issues but it has been on trivia. I
:31:21. > :31:30.was in Croydon and a man said, I would love to vote for you but I
:31:30. > :31:36.was told you are going to introduce a Sharia law in London.
:31:36. > :31:42.Why didn't you see this coming? There is nothing to see coming. All
:31:42. > :31:48.of the cadets published their tax returns. I pay three times the
:31:48. > :31:51.average rate of tax over the past few years. You cannot criticise tax
:31:51. > :31:58.arrangements unless yours are beyond scrutiny. You know people
:31:58. > :32:04.are going to rake over them, it is a question of judgment. What I have
:32:04. > :32:10.done is paid full tax on everything I have learned. In the same way, no
:32:11. > :32:15.company pays income tax, on a total income. Ind the last three years,
:32:15. > :32:22.have done three visits to China, none of which I have paid for, all
:32:22. > :32:27.of which involves expense. I want Chinese jobs coming here. Why did
:32:27. > :32:33.you want, why did you not avoid a situation where we would be happy
:32:33. > :32:40.to ask these questions? You don't need to ask the questions now we
:32:40. > :32:47.publish tax returns. It is right everyone should publish tax returns
:32:47. > :32:54.in public office. If there is a lesson, is it this revealed Ken
:32:54. > :33:00.Livingstone, usual rules don't apply? I paid the rate of tax are
:33:00. > :33:04.legally should. Not as much as Boris Johnson but he earns more.
:33:04. > :33:12.relation to the campaign, do you think you have damaged your party's
:33:12. > :33:21.chances? So many people say, what is being done to you is wrong. Four
:33:21. > :33:25.years ago, stories millions of pounds have gone missing. Boris
:33:25. > :33:32.initiated an investigation and found nothing was true. Transport,
:33:32. > :33:38.crime, housing, we should focus on this. The Tory mayor has a weak
:33:39. > :33:44.record and they want to discuss anything but that. You need to win
:33:44. > :33:51.back Labour voters who have deserted you. How have you won them
:33:51. > :33:58.back? We will know in two weeks. All I am focused on is on the
:33:58. > :34:05.street explaining how we cut travel fares, over 2000 police have gone
:34:05. > :34:13.in the last two years. Look at the pledge. And the record. On the
:34:13. > :34:22.screen now. 2004, here are the peak fares. Scented pence before. After
:34:22. > :34:27.the election, �1. -- 70p. Can we trust you to bring down these
:34:27. > :34:33.travel fares? I went into the election having increased these
:34:33. > :34:38.travel fares in 2004. I froze them on the buses. I increased them
:34:38. > :34:42.before the election. I made it clear. They would go up in line
:34:42. > :34:47.with inflation. The only time in my political career fairs have gone up
:34:47. > :34:55.by more than inflation was when we increased them to pay to build the
:34:55. > :35:00.London overground. Just voted Britain's best railway. If you go
:35:00. > :35:09.on to the Transport for London website, in real terms, bus fares
:35:09. > :35:15.were down 9%. Tube fares parolee up by 1.25%. This there is promising
:35:15. > :35:23.in the next four years to increase by 2% above inflation. I am
:35:23. > :35:31.promising to cut them by 7%. That will save you up to �1,000. This is
:35:31. > :35:36.what happened last time round for travel cards. They are going up.
:35:36. > :35:45.Can we trust you to reduce fares again? That is in line with
:35:45. > :35:54.inflation. At an independent study. It showed over Mike eight years,
:35:54. > :36:00.Tube fares only went up in real terms by 1.4%. You need agreement
:36:00. > :36:03.from the train operating companies or government. The mayor set the
:36:03. > :36:10.increase and the train operating companies have to follow that.
:36:10. > :36:14.government has to agree. It doesn't. While I was London mayor, I set the
:36:14. > :36:18.travel fares. You have to increase them in line with inflation. Year
:36:18. > :36:26.by year, except when they wanted money for the overground, that is
:36:26. > :36:33.what I did. The travel cards have to be in line with that. So, you
:36:33. > :36:40.think you can reduce fares by 7% and freeze them. You would use �380
:36:40. > :36:47.million, the surplus. We only need 269 of it. You would go into
:36:47. > :36:51.Transport for London. Their team would say that is money we want on
:36:51. > :36:58.it to upgrades or payment of the debt. They can't spend any more on
:36:58. > :37:04.upgrades because they already underperforming. 5-�150 million
:37:04. > :37:09.this year. I will focus on making sure they spend on Investment.
:37:09. > :37:15.it is allocated. They need to pay back the debt to keep this rate of
:37:15. > :37:19.investment. They are paying it back. There is a programme. They have
:37:19. > :37:25.started to pay back some early to reduce the surplus because it is an
:37:25. > :37:32.embarrassment. If it is sitting on a cash surplus it should put it
:37:32. > :37:38.back into to the pockets of Londoners. If it is telling you, it
:37:38. > :37:43.needs it for investment? If I am lucky enough to be elected, as I
:37:43. > :37:48.come in to sign the acceptance of office, Transport for London would
:37:48. > :37:52.have worked out how to cut fares. Let's say they did it one year.
:37:52. > :37:57.When you try to do it the next year, they won't have been able to use
:37:57. > :38:07.that surplus to put into, they won't have it available. The Hang
:38:07. > :38:11.
:38:11. > :38:17.on. I am cutting fares by 7%. In 1984, I cut it by much more. If you
:38:17. > :38:22.look at the independent report by the ratings agency, they identified
:38:22. > :38:29.one with �3 billion surplus. I am only taking that bit in the Fairs
:38:29. > :38:33.account. Not touching the Investment. If you needed more
:38:33. > :38:40.money, would you consider putting money on the congestion charge
:38:40. > :38:44.again? What about your pledge on gas guzzlers? We are in a different
:38:44. > :38:51.world. The most important thing is to keep money in people's pockets
:38:51. > :38:57.to spend locally. A lot of the cars are now much more fuel efficient.
:38:57. > :39:02.My commitment is cut travel fares, freeze council tax, no increase on
:39:02. > :39:07.congestion charge. Have you lost your radical environmental age?
:39:07. > :39:11.Eight years ago, we were not been the worst recession since the 30s.
:39:12. > :39:17.Now we are. The most important thing is to keep money in people's
:39:17. > :39:22.pockets, and if I start taking money out of that, it will prolong
:39:22. > :39:28.the recession. Just as a George Osborne is do with tax increases.
:39:28. > :39:33.It hasn't lifted as out, it has belonged it. You would get rid of
:39:33. > :39:38.the new bus Boris Johnson has developed? After all that research
:39:38. > :39:41.and development. We will keep the six or seven he has bought. We
:39:41. > :39:49.won't buy an expensive bus. Research and development has gone
:39:49. > :39:54.into it now. We need to see the next generation of buses as purely
:39:55. > :40:02.electric. We have the worst air quality in Europe, 4,000 people die
:40:02. > :40:08.every year prematurely in this city every year. These are ready for
:40:08. > :40:13.production. I was happy when her first introduced them 10 years ago
:40:13. > :40:20.but the world has moved on. We are are on the verge of having clean
:40:20. > :40:23.electric buses. This should be a focus. You say you could get
:40:24. > :40:29.Transport for London to bulk buy it energy and offer a cheaper energy
:40:29. > :40:35.to people. But the energy companies may not sign up to it. Transport
:40:35. > :40:40.for London buys energy at half the price of domestic costs. What will
:40:40. > :40:48.other companies say? They will increase prices and not give you
:40:48. > :40:53.that deal. We would be straight to court, we have an agreement. We
:40:53. > :40:58.want Londoners who wanted to transfer so they say about �120 a
:40:58. > :41:01.year. The energy companies are even less popular than journalists and
:41:01. > :41:06.politicians in the poll ratings. They don't want a big row where we
:41:06. > :41:10.end up in court because they are continuing to flee south Londoners.
:41:10. > :41:14.What would you do about the bicycles. Has Barclays Bank paid
:41:14. > :41:20.enough for the scholarship of these bicycles? Would you take that
:41:20. > :41:25.contract on? We won't do anything that incurs additional cost. You
:41:25. > :41:35.need to keep spending down, keep money in London. We don't want a
:41:35. > :41:35.
:41:35. > :41:42.row about that. We will simply publish the details of the contract.
:41:42. > :41:47.We have to renegotiate it at some time. The frames cost �12,000 over
:41:47. > :41:53.the life of the contract. I would buy the scheme all over London but
:41:53. > :42:00.at that price would cost �1 billion. If it continues, the scheme, to
:42:00. > :42:04.take public money when it isn't available. Can you commit to
:42:04. > :42:09.expanding that scheme. Or not? There are other schemes around the
:42:09. > :42:13.world very much cheaper. Barcelona in particular we have looked at. We
:42:13. > :42:18.will be saying to Barclays Bank, the people making the bikes, this
:42:18. > :42:23.isn't a good deal for taxpayers. Let's negotiate it down. Or, we
:42:23. > :42:30.will have a cheaper bike scheme as well. It is in your manifesto you
:42:30. > :42:34.would use this that formed to campaign against changes to the NHS.
:42:35. > :42:40.It is irreconcilable with you having an annual health check done
:42:40. > :42:50.by a private provider? The london mayor needs an annual health check
:42:50. > :42:54.because the mayor's wife is insured for -- life. �5 million we tried to
:42:54. > :43:01.find an NHS provider but it said they do not have these two kinds of
:43:01. > :43:05.checks. Boris Johnson has had to have this as well. I knew very well,
:43:05. > :43:10.if I wasn't careful, someone might be questioning the state of my
:43:10. > :43:15.health in this campaign. So, they made sure I had a health check. If
:43:15. > :43:20.the Tory Party said, is Ken going to survive for four years...
:43:20. > :43:25.Doesn't it blunter a message you want to give out, stopping private
:43:25. > :43:31.providers coming into the NHS? the NHS provided those checks, we
:43:31. > :43:35.would have gone to them. What I do say, if the Londoner has this, then
:43:35. > :43:42.all our staff should. We went to Guy's Hospital but they said they
:43:42. > :43:44.do not provide that sort of service. He Ken Livingstone, of course, was
:43:44. > :43:48.first elected Mayor as an independent. People without party
:43:48. > :43:53.have stood in every contest so far. Only one is in the race this time,
:43:53. > :43:57.Siobhan Benita. Andrew Cryan reports.
:43:57. > :44:02.Whitehall's corridors of power may seem like an unlikely place for an
:44:02. > :44:07.unknown challenger to emerge from. That's exactly what has happened.
:44:07. > :44:11.Siobhan Benita spent 15 years here. Including at the Cabinet Office and
:44:11. > :44:16.finally the departure of help. 15 years in the civil service give
:44:16. > :44:20.me the credentials to do this job. I have that fantastic experience of
:44:20. > :44:25.how the machinery of government works. What am not is a party
:44:25. > :44:31.politician. My policies are based on the evidence of what is good for
:44:31. > :44:37.London. According to her, that means of an responsibility macro,
:44:37. > :44:41.for London, designed to give better financial management for city pool.
:44:41. > :44:44.And an education commissioner charged with lobbying for more
:44:44. > :44:50.primary school places. And campaigning for a third runway at
:44:50. > :44:55.Heathrow. With fares frozen until 2014. Or the council taxpayer rise.
:44:55. > :45:00.Her policy platform is not exceptional, middle of the road, a
:45:00. > :45:06.Whitehall policy platform of new structures and bureaucracies, a
:45:06. > :45:12.Youth Assembly, a youth mayor. Responsibility macro. Various
:45:12. > :45:18.commissions. New duties on local councils. Bureaucratic structures
:45:18. > :45:24.and mechanisms rather than anything concrete. Also, promises to look at
:45:24. > :45:28.things. A bicycle network would be reviewed. A housing needs survey
:45:28. > :45:32.commissioned. A review of the police. For some this is buried.
:45:32. > :45:42.The charge being a review is what politicians do when they don't have
:45:42. > :45:43.
:45:43. > :45:48.a policy. Not so, according to I am the mayor who is saying I am
:45:48. > :45:52.brave enough to say, let's have a completely independent external
:45:52. > :45:57.review of the Metropolitan Police Service. I am saying once and for
:45:57. > :46:02.all, I will do what lots of people have been calling for. Go on to my
:46:02. > :46:06.policy at Heathrow. You cannot say I am taking bold policy moves. I am
:46:06. > :46:13.the only candidate who is saying if you're going to increase airport
:46:13. > :46:18.runway is the way to do it. Whether that is enough to win over
:46:18. > :46:23.Londoners, that is enough to be seen but she has attracted a number
:46:23. > :46:28.of higher profile backers, including the man known in
:46:28. > :46:33.Whitehall as God, Sir Gus O'Donnell. He has a direct line to the top
:46:33. > :46:37.newspaper and broadcasting bosses. He has been lobbying on her behalf
:46:37. > :46:45.entirely free of charge. She has endured a leg-up from Urmston
:46:45. > :46:50.looked young -- Ernst & Young. She insists they get nothing in return.
:46:51. > :46:54.I have put all of my tax out there, I am being very open about my
:46:54. > :47:00.funding. There is just the possibility that people like what I
:47:00. > :47:05.am doing. An international airport which will keep London in World
:47:05. > :47:10.position. However, the people who seem to like Siobhan in this
:47:10. > :47:15.campaign video may be less keen than they first appear. A company
:47:15. > :47:19.came to me, social and press, they offered to do a radio it for me and
:47:19. > :47:23.they were friends and family of theirs and some of mine. It was
:47:23. > :47:29.scripted and I have never said it was not. But they were not
:47:29. > :47:39.necessarily Siobhan Benita fans, they were taking part in the video?
:47:39. > :47:40.
:47:40. > :47:44.Yes. The real fans have been using Twitter, shortening Harrods and
:47:44. > :47:54.winning her publicity. On the day of the Grand National, the same day
:47:54. > :47:55.
:47:55. > :47:59.the bookies slashed miles and there was a joke about on the day of the
:47:59. > :48:05.Grand National but there was no suggestion to put money on me. He
:48:05. > :48:12.is tweeting on my behalf. Regardless of how well she does in
:48:12. > :48:15.the polls, Siobhan Benita could well be seen as one of the winners
:48:15. > :48:21.of this election. A quick word on Siobhan Benita, do
:48:21. > :48:25.she help or hinder you if she takes the vote away? Everyone has second
:48:25. > :48:30.preferences. On the way here, one of her supporters was handing out
:48:30. > :48:37.leaflets and wanted a photograph so I got a commitment for second
:48:37. > :48:42.preference. On policing, are you going to be the commission and head
:48:42. > :48:48.up the police in? I am kicking around how we will do this. So you
:48:48. > :48:55.will not commit to this? I will announce its sometime this week we
:48:55. > :49:00.will make a financial decision. We are looking at the various options.
:49:00. > :49:05.It is planned for later on this week. Restoring morale in the Met
:49:05. > :49:09.is key. People are talking that the demoralising. We have had three
:49:09. > :49:13.Commissioners in four years, that is a nightmare. There was all the
:49:13. > :49:19.corruption under Murdoch and now all the race stuff. The Met should
:49:19. > :49:21.be a wonderful place to work. I want to make it so. Labour are well
:49:22. > :49:25.ahead of Conservatives and the polls but you seem to be lagging
:49:26. > :49:34.behind the party, how will you feel if you prevent effectively a Labour
:49:34. > :49:40.victory? Every day I am of -- out on the street, I cannot create the
:49:40. > :49:44.mood with these polls. It is the best move I have seen another since
:49:44. > :49:52.Blair's first landslide. How would it feel if you were a drag on the
:49:52. > :49:55.party? IAA think I'm going to win, I genuinely believe that and I
:49:55. > :49:59.think we will show what Ed Miliband's government will do to
:49:59. > :50:05.make a fairer Britain. We will make a fairer London. We will look after
:50:05. > :50:09.the 99 %, not just the 1% Boris campaigns for. Will you stand again
:50:09. > :50:14.in four years' time? Can we get through one election at a time?
:50:14. > :50:19.you lose will you stand again? am rejected I will say it is time
:50:19. > :50:23.for someone else do come along but I eight am going to help bring down
:50:23. > :50:28.the next politicians who will be the next generation down the road.
:50:28. > :50:32.Thank you very much indeed. Here are all the candidates. Next we, we
:50:32. > :50:36.will be looking at Boris Johnson's campaign and we have asked him to
:50:36. > :50:46.take part in the programme. That is all we have time for here, time to
:50:46. > :50:52.
:50:52. > :50:57.Coming up, next week we can expect fireworks over the House of Lords
:50:57. > :51:02.reform proposals. Rupert Murdoch is before Leveson on Wednesday and the
:51:02. > :51:05.Home Secretary's troubles are far from over. Prince William will be
:51:05. > :51:13.buying his misses a little present to celebrate their first wedding
:51:13. > :51:18.anniversary. Let's have a look at the weekend. -- the week ahead.
:51:18. > :51:22.House of Lords reform. We have seen there is a head of steam in the
:51:23. > :51:27.Tory backbenches at about this. Labour is saying they are in favour
:51:27. > :51:31.but they want a referendum. Does this have the ability to fracture
:51:31. > :51:36.the coalition? I think it does in theory. What Cameron has got going
:51:36. > :51:40.for him at the moment is the fact that he still has not had this
:51:40. > :51:43.incredibly long awaited reshuffle. I spoke to quite a lot of the
:51:43. > :51:47.would-be Tory rebels last week who felt very passionate about not
:51:47. > :51:53.voting for House of Lords reform but they are not prepared to
:51:54. > :51:57.sacrifice their ministerial ambitions. What do you think?
:51:57. > :52:01.Cameron is flirting with this gambit and a referendum and it is
:52:01. > :52:05.interesting that Nick Clegg, in his interview earlier, did not
:52:05. > :52:10.absolutely rule it out. He senses that a referendum is eminently
:52:10. > :52:15.winnable. All parties would have to campaign for a Yes vote. The Tories
:52:15. > :52:22.would be split? They would be split but David Cameron can make the case
:52:22. > :52:27.for the manifesto they put before the public in 2010. He could make a
:52:27. > :52:30.populist case to the public which is would you rather have more or
:52:30. > :52:36.less control over the second chamber which is currently stuff by
:52:36. > :52:41.donors, cronies and suppose it experts. Clegg knows it is winnable.
:52:41. > :52:45.He does not want one but he did not rule it out. Labour has to decide
:52:45. > :52:48.does it want to play politics with this which I think is very tempting
:52:49. > :52:53.because you could cause great trouble for the coalition by
:52:53. > :52:57.opposing this or is it so committed to an elected second chamber that
:52:57. > :53:02.in the end, it will go along with the reform proposals? I think the
:53:02. > :53:08.question for Labour, it is quite a gift for them, that by calling for
:53:08. > :53:12.a referendum there is the point of principle and pragmatism. If you
:53:12. > :53:17.agree that votes are so important in our democracy then you have to
:53:17. > :53:24.say we have to vote on that, too, and it is inconsistent to do so or
:53:24. > :53:27.otherwise. Practically it is a good deal for Labour. If they can upset
:53:27. > :53:32.this idea of the boundary changes, that would be fantastic for Labour
:53:32. > :53:36.because they will lose as well. case for a referendum is clear, you
:53:36. > :53:40.can agree or disagree, the case is clear and it is to do with the
:53:40. > :53:45.constitutional change issue, the question is for Labour which Sadiq
:53:45. > :53:50.Khan would not answer, do you make that a deal breaker. Do you say, no
:53:50. > :53:55.referendum, we will not vote on this before the Commons? I think
:53:55. > :53:59.they should take a very bold stance on that. I disagree with Janan
:53:59. > :54:03.Ganesh that the public would not be in favour of reforming the House of
:54:03. > :54:07.Lords. The biggest problem with democracy is not that we don't vote
:54:07. > :54:12.enough. If you look at the monarchy, that is hugely popular. There is a
:54:12. > :54:16.sense of tradition which is hugely popular. Something Cameron does not
:54:16. > :54:20.have very much of is the idea of safeguarding of protecting the
:54:20. > :54:24.traditions and institutions and the country which his backbenchers will
:54:24. > :54:29.pick up on. Fireworks from Rupert Murdoch this week? My understanding
:54:30. > :54:33.is he has had enough of being humble. My sources tell me that he
:54:34. > :54:36.thinks the British establishment is out to destroy him so he will come
:54:36. > :54:42.out all guns blazing against the British establishment when he
:54:42. > :54:47.appears before Ledston on Wednesday. Discuss. I hope that is so because
:54:47. > :54:51.it will make it great fun. I want to know if Wendy will be there.
:54:51. > :54:57.Vanguard? Absolutely, and will she be positioned nice and close
:54:57. > :55:01.instead of any -- in case of any flying custard pies? The Leveson
:55:01. > :55:05.Inquiry is slowly moving away from the narrow issue of hacking towards
:55:06. > :55:10.the broader issue of the relationship between the media and
:55:11. > :55:15.the political parties. The insights of Rupert Murdoch on specifically
:55:15. > :55:20.the relationship between the Prime Minister and News International
:55:20. > :55:25.could be quite incendiary and quite shocking. David Cameron himself is
:55:25. > :55:30.Before Lord Leveson in June. If you read his tweets, he is up for a
:55:30. > :55:33.fight, he is here already, he will not be jet lag on Wednesday.
:55:33. > :55:37.spent the entire week on Twitter slamming everything the coalition
:55:38. > :55:42.does. It feels like he knows where the balance of power lies. We know
:55:42. > :55:46.that Murdoch is prepared to go against people who formerly
:55:46. > :55:52.supported him. We know he is prepared to come out and say these
:55:52. > :55:56.things. There will be some interesting revelations to come out.
:55:56. > :56:00.My understanding is, he has turned completely against Cameron, you can
:56:00. > :56:04.see that in the tweets. But Gordon Brown disowned him and he is out to
:56:04. > :56:10.get Mr Brown as well. There are lots of skeletons he can bring out
:56:10. > :56:13.from both cupboards. And eventually it is both Murdochs. James is
:56:13. > :56:18.appearing as well. He was the front line in the relationship between
:56:18. > :56:25.the politicians and the media. Theresa May. This has not gone away.
:56:25. > :56:29.I am a poet and did not know it! The stories today is that Mr Abu
:56:29. > :56:32.Qatada could be with us for the foreseeable future and out on bail
:56:32. > :56:37.and suing the British tax payer. you talk to lawyers who are
:56:37. > :56:41.involved in this kind of work, they say the absolute number one golden
:56:41. > :56:45.rule is no when the deadline is. At the end of the day, I don't think
:56:45. > :56:48.that voters are really bothered by the minutiae of what happens here.
:56:49. > :56:53.What they see is a government who is apparently incapable of
:56:53. > :56:56.supporting a terrorist. It is not a good look. If he is here for the
:56:56. > :57:00.foreseeable future which means he will be allowed out on bail again
:57:00. > :57:04.because he was only brought back in because he was about to be deported,
:57:04. > :57:09.a fee starts selling us again, we are into another ten years, is the
:57:09. > :57:13.Home Secretary's position tenable? You would think so. She is in a
:57:13. > :57:17.privileged position. The Prime Minister rates her incredibly
:57:17. > :57:23.highly and thinks she is a safe pair of hands. But on top of that,
:57:23. > :57:27.she is the only woman in occupation of four great offices of state.
:57:27. > :57:31.There is not an obvious female replacement. I think she's better
:57:31. > :57:36.protected than many others. Can she survive because she's a woman, that
:57:36. > :57:40.does not sound very fair? I think she will survive and you cannot
:57:40. > :57:43.fire someone for counting the days wrong. This issue is much bigger
:57:43. > :57:48.than Theresa May and the Conservative Party. It affects
:57:48. > :57:51.Labour as well. With the feel a sense of legitimacy and authority
:57:51. > :57:55.about the institutions over in Europe. If you compare what is
:57:55. > :57:59.happening here with the United States, if the Supreme Court makes
:57:59. > :58:03.a decision people do not like, they do not question its legitimacy.
:58:03. > :58:11.There is not the sense of ownership over the European Court that there
:58:11. > :58:16.should be. We we could just put him on a plane and see what happens.
:58:16. > :58:20.We will have to leave there. Jo Coburn will be back tomorrow with
:58:20. > :58:25.the Daily Politics. She will be talking to the leader of the House