:00:47. > :00:50.Afternoon. Welcome to the Sunday politics. It is decision day for
:00:50. > :00:54.Greece as the country goes to the polls for the second time this year.
:00:54. > :01:01.The result will determine Greek membership of the Euro and could
:01:01. > :01:05.plunge Europe into economic chaos. That is our top story. During the
:01:05. > :01:10.first Gulf war, Britain sent 53,000 troops to the Middle East along
:01:10. > :01:14.with hundreds of tanks. Could we field anything like that kind of
:01:14. > :01:20.firepower again? I'll be speaking to Philip Hammond in the Sunday
:01:20. > :01:24.interview. And we have had Prime Minister
:01:24. > :01:30.after Prime Minister after Deputy Prime Minister giving evidence to
:01:30. > :01:33.the Leveson Inquiry this week. But his Levison creating a chilly
:01:33. > :01:37.atmosphere towards freedom of speech?
:01:37. > :01:41.All that and the best political panel in the business, looking
:01:41. > :01:46.forward to the week ahead and tweeting like Levison stenographers
:01:46. > :01:50.throughout the programme. In London, is at the end of social
:01:50. > :02:00.housing as we know it? Can the capital's shortage of affordable
:02:00. > :02:01.
:02:01. > :02:06.homes only be tackled if tenants pay significantly more rent?
:02:06. > :02:10.All that coming up but first the news.
:02:10. > :02:13.Good afternoon. Voters in Greece are taking part in the second
:02:13. > :02:17.election in six weeks. The outcome of which could determine if the
:02:17. > :02:21.country stays in the Eurozone. The main contenders have pledged to
:02:21. > :02:25.renegotiate Greece's international bail-out but Angela Merkel has
:02:25. > :02:30.urged voters to choose a government which will stand by previous
:02:30. > :02:37.commitments to cut Greece's huge national debt. This report contains
:02:37. > :02:42.some flash photography. Meet the left wing's Alexis Tsipras.
:02:42. > :02:45.An unknown a month ago. He wants the terms of Greece's bail-out
:02:45. > :02:50.radically changed. That is why Europe's leaders fear that he will
:02:50. > :02:56.lead Greece out of the Euro. One former Prime Minister here said
:02:56. > :03:06.that if that happened, the whole of Europe would suffer. That has
:03:06. > :03:06.
:03:07. > :03:12.created ripe ground for populism, racist parties, neo-fascist parties
:03:12. > :03:17.and an extreme political views, which will, not only in Greece but
:03:17. > :03:22.in other countries, tear apart the fabric, the values on which the
:03:22. > :03:26.European Union is based. Thought by vote, this could be the most
:03:26. > :03:30.significant moments yet in the Eurozone debt crisis. Greeks do not
:03:30. > :03:34.see this as a referendum on Euro membership. For them, it is a
:03:34. > :03:38.choice between competing visions of how best to rescue this country's
:03:38. > :03:44.economy. Before the El-Saoud world, a vote for the Left would create
:03:44. > :03:49.great uncertainty and fear. -- but for the outside world.
:03:49. > :03:53.Europe would be more comfortable with Antonis Samaras. He also wants
:03:53. > :03:58.the bail-out terms to be changed. But whoever takes power, Greece
:03:58. > :04:05.will still be hundreds of billions in debt. It will still be a problem
:04:05. > :04:09.for Europe and the world. Polls have opened immediate for a
:04:09. > :04:14.second and final day of voting to let the country's first President
:04:14. > :04:16.since Hosni Mubarak was forced from office. Egyptians are choosing
:04:16. > :04:21.between a conservative Islamist and the former Prime Minister from the
:04:21. > :04:25.former regime. Some Egyptians have been calling for voters to ignore
:04:25. > :04:29.the elections or spoil their ballot papers because of a lack of choice.
:04:29. > :04:32.The Government is expected to announce a contract for work on the
:04:32. > :04:35.next generation of nuclear submarines this week. The deal as
:04:35. > :04:39.part of plans to replace the fleet which carries the Trident nuclear
:04:39. > :04:44.deterrent. The work will be carried out at the Rolls-Royce factory in
:04:44. > :04:47.Derby, safeguarding 300 jobs. The International Olympic Committee
:04:47. > :04:51.is investigating claims that officials from more than 50
:04:51. > :04:54.countries have been caught offering tickets to the London 2012 games on
:04:54. > :04:57.the black market. The Sunday Times claimed they have evidence of
:04:58. > :05:02.thousands of tickets being sold illegally for up to 10 times their
:05:02. > :05:05.face five. The Paper secretly filmed agents from member countries
:05:05. > :05:09.offering the tickets to undercover journalists.
:05:09. > :05:14.Part of an outdoor stage has collapsed before a concert by the
:05:14. > :05:18.band Radiohead in Canada, killing a ban. Another man suffered head
:05:18. > :05:24.injuries. -- killing a man. The band was not on stage at the time
:05:24. > :05:28.and the concert was cancelled. More news here on BBC One at 6
:05:28. > :05:31.o'clock. The Greeks are voting as we speak
:05:31. > :05:34.and the Poles make it neck and neck between the conservative New
:05:34. > :05:39.democracy party, he says it is a choice between keeping the Euro and
:05:39. > :05:44.going back to the drachma, and the anti- austerity party who say that
:05:44. > :05:51.they can have their cake and eat it. Live to Athens. Matthew Price is
:05:51. > :05:58.there. If the hard-left party wins and forms the next government, is
:05:58. > :06:04.if their intention to rip up the bail-out and see what happens?
:06:04. > :06:10.think that is the crucial point. We have seen SYRIZA's platform changed
:06:10. > :06:14.markedly since I was here six weeks ago. Then, Alexis Tsipras was
:06:14. > :06:18.saying that they would repay up the agreement. But now he has become
:06:18. > :06:22.more nuanced. He is saying that Angela Merkel will have someone
:06:22. > :06:27.next to her who will not say yes all the time. In essence, they are
:06:27. > :06:30.saying that if we stick to the terms of the bail-out as it exists,
:06:31. > :06:34.Greece will be forced out of the Euro. He is saying that he does not
:06:34. > :06:37.want that and Greece does not want that. He is talking in a more
:06:38. > :06:42.nuanced way about radically changing the terms of the bail-out
:06:42. > :06:48.but not ripping it up. If the centre-right wins tonight, they
:06:48. > :06:51.will attempt to renegotiate the bail-out package? They will not rip
:06:52. > :06:56.it up but they will attempts to get better terms? I was talking to
:06:56. > :07:01.their top economics adviser who said he wants to turn the argument
:07:01. > :07:04.on his head, in his words, he said austerity is killing this country,
:07:04. > :07:10.that what is needed first is Investment and then austerity. I
:07:10. > :07:14.said, well, actually, in that sense you are speaking almost as
:07:14. > :07:19.radically as the left. Laddie said, not at all. The Left want to carry
:07:19. > :07:24.out some very damaging economic policies, he said. He claims that
:07:24. > :07:32.the right, New democracy, would wish to press ahead with Europe as
:07:32. > :07:36.the Belletti exists. But in his words, turn it on its head. If the
:07:36. > :07:39.left when, the market will be in turmoil which will have
:07:39. > :07:44.repercussions for her at Spain and Italy and beyond, because they have
:07:44. > :07:48.been sold this line from Angela Merkel that a vote for the left is
:07:48. > :07:52.a boat out of the role. In the same time -- at the same time, voting
:07:52. > :07:56.for the right is still, in Greek eyes, a vote to significantly
:07:56. > :08:00.change the terms of the bail-out. Whoever forms the next government,
:08:00. > :08:05.this country is still billions of Euros in debt and relies on
:08:05. > :08:09.emergency funding. If it has a government that is going to change
:08:09. > :08:15.the terms of the bail-out agreement, will Europe go along with that or
:08:15. > :08:19.will Europe decides to cut graceless? Briefly, if they do not
:08:19. > :08:27.get another large cheque, when will be run out of money? -- cut Greece
:08:27. > :08:31.loose. In a sense, it is a moot point. In reality, next month, they
:08:31. > :08:35.need the next tranche of funding next month. The reason I say it is
:08:35. > :08:40.a moot point, my impression talking to people in Brussels and Berlin
:08:40. > :08:45.and elsewhere, the irony about all of this is that nobody wants Greece
:08:45. > :08:49.to leave the Euro. They do not want them to leave the Euro in Brussels
:08:49. > :08:52.and Berlin. Greeks certainly do not want to leave. The pressure is
:08:52. > :08:55.higher on Greece and Dromore leaders in Europe who say that
:08:55. > :09:00.maybe there comes a point in the future where we have to cut them
:09:00. > :09:03.loose. In reality, they run out of money next month but I imagine in
:09:04. > :09:08.the way that we have seen so far, barring any accidents, if there is
:09:08. > :09:11.fudging to be done, Europe will carry it out. They will muddle
:09:11. > :09:19.through, and find some way of supplying Greece with money while
:09:19. > :09:22.they sort out the political mess. I am joined by Richard Jeffrey and
:09:22. > :09:27.David Marsh, an investment banker and author of 'The Euro -- The
:09:27. > :09:31.Politics of the New Global Currency'.
:09:31. > :09:35.If Greece votes for the centre- right, the crisis continues to run
:09:35. > :09:40.along. If it votes for the hard left, it probably brings it to a
:09:40. > :09:45.head. What will be better for Greece? This is a crisis that has
:09:45. > :09:50.been 10 years in the making. It is wrong to see one political that as
:09:50. > :09:53.an event that is a defining moment. I am not sure that the different
:09:53. > :09:57.outcomes of the election will have a meaningfully different
:09:57. > :10:01.implication for the outlook for Greece. In the end, Greece will
:10:01. > :10:08.probably be forced to leave the Euro. That might happen faster or
:10:08. > :10:13.slower. I suppose that if the Left Party get in and tries to force the
:10:13. > :10:17.issue with Brussels faster, then it actually could hasten Greece's exit.
:10:17. > :10:22.What would be better? I think it would be better for Greece to leave.
:10:22. > :10:27.It would be better for Greece to get back on its own two feet.
:10:27. > :10:35.also think it would be better if Greece was to leave. Two votes for
:10:35. > :10:40.the hard left. They are not that different. Samaras is no friend of
:10:40. > :10:45.austerity. He has done bad things. You have to put it in a wider
:10:45. > :10:48.context. You have to look at what the critical countries are saying.
:10:48. > :10:53.Everyone expects that the Germans will come running to the rescue
:10:53. > :10:59.like a general appearing after an uprising 4th, but that is not going
:10:59. > :11:03.to happen and this is not a bluff. The Germans are saying that if you
:11:03. > :11:08.want to have fiscal union, you are going to have to give up fiscal
:11:08. > :11:13.authority. That concerns France. I agree with Richard, it goes further
:11:13. > :11:20.than Greece. If Greece goes and it creates a financial crisis, we know
:11:20. > :11:24.that Spain and Italy and maybe France a week. -- are weak. Is
:11:24. > :11:32.there a firewall and place big enough to stop contagion? The point
:11:32. > :11:37.is, the far wall should be in place by now. So there isn't? Potentially,
:11:37. > :11:43.there is. The problem is the French banking system, it is not Italy and
:11:43. > :11:46.Spain. What the ECB will have to do if Greece pulls out his insure that
:11:46. > :11:50.there is sufficient liquidity in the system and they have to get
:11:50. > :11:55.absolute support for those measures from the Germans. It is the Germans
:11:55. > :11:59.who are reluctant at the moment. That is natural because it is a
:11:59. > :12:02.redistribution of German wealth that is demanded if the Euro is
:12:02. > :12:07.going to survive. George Osborne says that we are not powerless in
:12:07. > :12:12.the face of the Eurozone debt storm. Do you believe them? Does a team
:12:12. > :12:20.the in the British government? -- does he mean that the British
:12:20. > :12:23.government. Clare Liberton as a few less limitations. -- clearly
:12:23. > :12:28.Britain has. I do not know why they are telling the Germans they have
:12:28. > :12:34.to do something. I think that shows a lack of power and imagination and
:12:34. > :12:38.understanding. What Britain is doing is staying on the sidelines,
:12:38. > :12:42.and offering advice from time to time. It should actually do more to
:12:42. > :12:46.shore up the economy, not just against Eurozone weakness but
:12:46. > :12:53.against home-grown weakness. I think the attempt to make the Euro
:12:53. > :12:59.area the scapegoat for Britain's economic ills is pathetic. At the
:12:59. > :13:03.British -- we see a storm coming. It could be severe. It could be a
:13:03. > :13:09.tornado. Have we done enough to Batten down the hatches? I think we
:13:10. > :13:15.took the wrong policy decisions earlier on in this crisis. I think
:13:15. > :13:21.when fiscal policy was changed, the Government should have focused on
:13:21. > :13:25.expenditure and less on taxation. That is water on -- under the
:13:25. > :13:29.bridge. Has he done enough to keep the economy going? What was done in
:13:29. > :13:32.the Mansion House speech was helpful, undoubtedly, but I think
:13:32. > :13:37.when we first had quantitative easing, the Bank of England should
:13:37. > :13:41.have focused on getting liquidity into the private sector rather than
:13:41. > :13:43.buying government debt. They should have been buying packages of loans
:13:43. > :13:48.from smaller companies and forcing liquidity into the areas of the
:13:48. > :13:53.economy that we are going to rely on for growth. In a sentence, or
:13:53. > :13:58.will we be in a week? We will be where we are now with posturing,
:13:58. > :14:03.argy-bargy and threats. -- where will we be. But we will be nearer
:14:03. > :14:06.to the moment of truth, which will be for Greece to leave. We are in
:14:06. > :14:13.the sawtooth of a crisis and there are many more teeth that we're
:14:13. > :14:18.going to have to travel over. Two big news stories this morning
:14:18. > :14:22.related to defence. First, the MoD is investing heavily in nuclear
:14:22. > :14:25.reactors for a new generator -- a generation of nuclear submarines,
:14:25. > :14:27.which is seen as further confirmation that the Tories are
:14:27. > :14:31.committed to like-for-like replacement of tried and despite
:14:31. > :14:35.the opposition of coalition colleagues. The second story, there
:14:35. > :14:40.is a lot of talk about which historic Army regiments might face
:14:40. > :14:44.the axe in the next round of Government defence cuts. Cuts to
:14:45. > :14:49.which our Sunday interview guest is about to put his pen. Philip
:14:49. > :14:53.Hammond took up his role as defence minister in October last year.
:14:53. > :14:56.Following the resignation of Liam Fox. In his new brief, he is
:14:57. > :15:02.responsible for overseeing the biggest cuts to the armed forces in
:15:02. > :15:07.decades. The coalition's Strategic Defence and Security Review means
:15:07. > :15:14.that the number of full-time troops in the British Army will fall from
:15:14. > :15:18.over 101,000 in 2010 to just over 82,000 by 2017. There will also be
:15:18. > :15:25.big cuts to the RAF and Navy. There MoD is hoping that the Territorial
:15:25. > :15:29.Army will provide 30,000 deplorable reserves to make up the difference.
:15:29. > :15:33.But with trips to meshed, could the UK still stage major foreign
:15:33. > :15:43.operations? -- troops diminished. How seriously will be taken on the
:15:43. > :15:43.
:15:43. > :15:52.Philip Hammond is our Sunday Interview.
:15:52. > :15:56.You were about to give a �1 billion go-ahead to new nuclear reactors
:15:56. > :16:00.for our nuclear deterrent. You have decided to keep Trident, haven't
:16:00. > :16:05.you? What we are going to be announcing is a commitment to the
:16:05. > :16:10.major refurbishing of the plant at Rolls-Royce in Derby which builds
:16:10. > :16:17.these core reactors, not just for the nuclear deterrent submarines,
:16:17. > :16:23.but also for our attack submarines, the Astute class. This is
:16:23. > :16:28.maintaining a sovereign capability in the UK. It means the Lib Dems
:16:28. > :16:32.are wasting their time looking for alternatives to Trident, you have
:16:32. > :16:37.made your mind up? The Government's policy is clear. We are committed
:16:37. > :16:43.to maintaining a credible nuclear deterrent. We are placing orders
:16:44. > :16:51.now - we announced �350 million a couple of weeks ago for design
:16:51. > :16:56.phase work - we are placing orders now for the long-lead items. The
:16:56. > :17:00.actual decision to go ahead and build them won't have to be taken
:17:00. > :17:04.until 2016 and what we are doing at the moment is ordering the things
:17:04. > :17:09.that have to be ordered now to give us that option. In your view, is
:17:09. > :17:13.there anything credible that is an alternative to Trident? We have
:17:13. > :17:19.done a review of options and value for money of the Trident programme.
:17:19. > :17:22.That concluded that replacing the Vanguard submarines and continuing
:17:22. > :17:26.with Trident was the best-value solution to maintaining a nuclear
:17:26. > :17:30.deterrent. The Liberal Democrats wanted to have another look, look
:17:30. > :17:33.at some emerging technologies. Nick Harvey, the Armed Forces Minister,
:17:33. > :17:36.is leading a review to look at whether there are any... You are
:17:36. > :17:39.going ahead with everything that needs to be done to replace
:17:39. > :17:43.Trident? We are carrying on with the Government's policy. We are
:17:43. > :17:47.doing that is in the critical path to make sure when we get to 2016 we
:17:47. > :17:52.can make that decision and all the long-lead items will have been
:17:52. > :17:56.ordered. If you weren't making this massive investment in Trident, you
:17:56. > :18:00.wouldn't have to slash our Armed Forces to their smallest level for
:18:00. > :18:07.300 years, would you? The overall defence programme consists of a
:18:07. > :18:13.number of different parts - an equipment programme, the nuclear
:18:13. > :18:16.element and the manpower budget. will be smaller - if you spent it
:18:16. > :18:21.on the Armed Forces, you wouldn't have to slash the Army? Similarly,
:18:21. > :18:25.if you look back a few years, the Government, the previous Government,
:18:25. > :18:28.was not spending enough on equipment for the Army in
:18:28. > :18:32.Afghanistan, for protective equipment and the money was being
:18:32. > :18:36.spent on maintaining larger force level. What we have done is looked
:18:36. > :18:41.at how we can have a sustainable force that meets Britain's needs in
:18:41. > :18:45.the future on the basis that we must equip our Armed Forces
:18:45. > :18:49.properly. Whatever level of force we ultimately decide to have, we
:18:49. > :18:52.have got to be able to provide the protective equipment and the proper
:18:52. > :18:57.fighting equipment that that Army needs. Let's look at what the
:18:57. > :19:07.Conservatives said before the election. This is Liam Fox to the
:19:07. > :19:28.
:19:28. > :19:32.Let's see what the Prime Minister Why are you abolishing five
:19:32. > :19:36.battalions? We haven't said what the structure of the Army will be,
:19:36. > :19:41.that is a work that we haven't concluded yet. You are cutting
:19:41. > :19:46.numbers by 20,000? The quotes are from 2007. I think most people will
:19:46. > :19:51.have noticed the world is a radically different place from 2007.
:19:51. > :19:55.We have had the biggest economic crisis that we have faced since the
:19:55. > :19:59.Second World War, we have had a massive fiscal problem that has to
:19:59. > :20:03.be addressed. Indeed, it was Liam Fox that said that the fiscal
:20:03. > :20:06.crisis is one of the biggest strategic challenges facing Britain.
:20:06. > :20:11.Regardless of the deficit - I understand the problem with the
:20:11. > :20:15.deficit - regardless of that, if the Army was too small in 2007,
:20:15. > :20:18.it's going fob way too small after you have done your -- going to be
:20:18. > :20:21.way too small after you have done your cuts, that is logical, isn't
:20:21. > :20:25.it? The defence has to make a contribution to the fiscal
:20:25. > :20:28.consolidation to getting the size of the deficit down so we can build
:20:28. > :20:35.a sustainable economy for the future. If the question is would I
:20:35. > :20:39.like to have a bigger Army, of course I would. What we are doing,
:20:39. > :20:43.and the Armed Forces are engaged in this process in a very mature way,
:20:43. > :20:47.is working within the resource envelope that we have got to create
:20:47. > :20:53.a force which will deliver Britain's needs in future, be
:20:53. > :20:59.adaptable, flexible, highly-mobile and deployable and proper he I
:20:59. > :21:03.quipped. We don't have any -- properly equipped. We don't have
:21:03. > :21:07.any more of those stories that we were getting in 2007/8 that the
:21:07. > :21:11.troops didn't have the equipment to do the job. You are not cutting the
:21:11. > :21:15.deficit in every department. What is the logic you pour billions more
:21:15. > :21:19.into international aid while slashing the British Army by
:21:19. > :21:26.19,000? The Government made a commitment to reach the 0.7%...
:21:26. > :21:30.made a commitment to have a bigger Army, Mr Hammond? But we also
:21:30. > :21:33.believe that intervening early to prevent conflict, to prevent the
:21:33. > :21:37.pressures that cause conflict and that cause threat to our national
:21:37. > :21:44.security is very much in our national interest. Our aid
:21:44. > :21:49.programme is being reconfigured so it focuses on those areas where
:21:49. > :21:54.instability represents a threat to us. In Pakistan, in the Horn of
:21:54. > :21:57.Africa, in places where the problems that we are seeing in
:21:57. > :22:02.those countries have a direct security impact on this country.
:22:02. > :22:06.understand that. It is an important part of our security. I'm glad you
:22:06. > :22:11.mentioned Pakistan. The fact is we are cutting back our military
:22:11. > :22:15.substantially but we are giving aid to countries like Pakistan and
:22:15. > :22:19.India with massive and expanding military machines. What is the
:22:19. > :22:25.logic of that? Well, our aid programme to India is being reduced.
:22:25. > :22:30.It is now very concentrated. are giving �280 million this year,
:22:30. > :22:33.next year and in 2014/15. You are giving money to countries with huge
:22:33. > :22:38.military machines and yet, you are cutting our own military? In the
:22:38. > :22:42.case of India, it's an aid programme that is running down and
:22:42. > :22:49.it's focused in one area, on Non- Governmental Organisations with the
:22:49. > :22:53.primary focus in education. In the case of Pakistan, the threat to the
:22:53. > :22:57.UK's future security from instability in Pakistan is very
:22:57. > :23:03.significant and seeking to intervene to help to stabilise the
:23:03. > :23:07.situation in Pakistan, particularly again in the area of education,
:23:07. > :23:12.poverty eradication, is critically important to the UK's security. We
:23:12. > :23:15.also have a very significant programme of military co-operation
:23:15. > :23:21.with Pakistan, helping the Pakistanis to deal with the
:23:21. > :23:25.terrorist threat that they face. Could we ever mount another Iraq
:23:25. > :23:30.War? Certainly not on our own. but making a major contribution?
:23:30. > :23:34.Yes, we will be able to make a major contribution as an ally in a
:23:35. > :23:38.broad-based alliance to carry out a major sustained operation. That is
:23:38. > :23:44.the way... We had 15,000 men last time. We couldn't do that?
:23:44. > :23:50.wouldn't be able to put 53,000 men... 300 tanks? We would still -
:23:50. > :23:54.not 300 tanks either. We would be able to make a major contribution
:23:54. > :24:00.to the operation. The Americans don't think so. They don't think we
:24:00. > :24:03.could make a major contribution any more. We could do intelligence and
:24:03. > :24:08.Special Forces. Other than that, they don't need us? I don't think
:24:08. > :24:12.that is true. The Americans are generally very complimentary about
:24:12. > :24:16.the quality of UK forces and the contribution that we deliver to a
:24:16. > :24:21.combined operation. Look, we have forces much smaller than the
:24:21. > :24:24.American forces. America spends nearly half of all the world's
:24:24. > :24:28.defence spending. It is overwhelmingly the largest military
:24:28. > :24:35.force on the face of the planet. We are not comparing ourselves with
:24:35. > :24:42.the Americans. Our forces, even after the changes announced in the
:24:42. > :24:45.SDSR 2010, will be, after the Americans, among the most effective,
:24:45. > :24:51.deployable military forces in the world. Let's look at Syria. If a
:24:51. > :24:58.decision was made by the UN or NATO to enforce a no-fly zone, what
:24:58. > :25:05.capabilities, what resources could we contribute? Well, the UK has a
:25:05. > :25:08.fast-jet capability, Tornadoes and Typhoon aircraft... No aircraft
:25:09. > :25:12.carriers? We have an airbase in Cyprus which would give us the
:25:12. > :25:17.capability to mount any operations in the eastern Mediterranean that
:25:17. > :25:22.we wanted to mount. A part of your strategy involves cutting full-time
:25:22. > :25:32.troops, replacing them with the reservists. This is what the UK
:25:32. > :25:38.
:25:38. > :25:43.national Defence Association had to The experts don't think you can
:25:43. > :25:47.compensate your cuts in the regular forces by boosting the reservists?
:25:47. > :25:51.The experts are in the British Army and they do think that The
:25:51. > :25:56.Territorial Army can play a much more significant role. Under the
:25:57. > :26:01.last Government, training budgets for The Territorial Army was cut.
:26:01. > :26:05.We broke the covenant between the TA and the reservists who joined up
:26:05. > :26:10.to it. They didn't get the training that they were promised and that
:26:10. > :26:16.they needed. We have committed a ringfenced budget, �1.8 billion
:26:16. > :26:21.over ten years to provide the kit and the training that TA reservists
:26:21. > :26:28.need. They will be integrated more effectively into the Regular Army,
:26:28. > :26:32.that's already been talked about, the much-closer linking of TA units
:26:32. > :26:37.with regular units so they can train together and work up their
:26:37. > :26:40.skills together. We do believe that the TA can provide a significant
:26:40. > :26:45.additional support, particularly in a sustained operation. You talked
:26:45. > :26:48.about Iraq, but the operation in Afghanistan. In future, if we do
:26:48. > :26:53.get involved in a sustained operation again, as we get into the
:26:53. > :26:58.second and third year, we will start to see bigger proportions of
:26:58. > :27:03.reservists being involved. There are a lot of famous regiment names
:27:03. > :27:06.in line for your cuts. Can you give us a guarantee when it comes to
:27:06. > :27:12.announcing them, the historic Scottish regiments will bear just
:27:12. > :27:18.as much of the brunt as the English ones? The work that is going on now,
:27:18. > :27:21.in preparation for an announcement, is focused on how to distribute the
:27:21. > :27:25.reductions in manpower across the infantry. What is the answer to my
:27:25. > :27:29.question? In a way that is fair, equitable and based on military
:27:29. > :27:33.logic and the needs of the military. Will it be the English regiments
:27:33. > :27:37.bearing the brunt, or the Scottish ones? I won't pre-empt any
:27:37. > :27:42.announcement at this stage. I can tell you the way it's done will be
:27:42. > :27:47.fair and we will make sure... will include Scottish regiments?
:27:47. > :27:52.will be fair, so people in the Army, in the wider community see it as
:27:52. > :27:59.fair and based on proper logical analysis, not just something that
:27:59. > :28:04.we have whipped up on the back of an envelope. Your defence spending,
:28:04. > :28:09.the Chancellor has told us that there will have to be more public
:28:09. > :28:15.spending cuts in 2016 and 201. Have defence been exempted? The 1%
:28:15. > :28:19.increase after 2015 is only on the equipment programme. Our budget has
:28:19. > :28:24.been built on the assumption which is agreed with the Treasury that
:28:24. > :28:28.there will be a 1% increase in the equipment purchase and support.
:28:28. > :28:33.Whatever cuts happen elsewhere, you will get that extra 1%? That is the
:28:33. > :28:39.commitment that has been made to us by the Treasury. So far? So far.
:28:39. > :28:43.Thank you very much. It's approaching 12.30pm. You are
:28:43. > :28:53.watching Sunday Politics. I will be looking at the week ahead with our
:28:53. > :28:53.
:28:53. > :29:01.political panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics across the UK.
:29:01. > :29:08.Hello. Welcome from us. Coming up later: The capital's Olympics
:29:08. > :29:12.spectacle draws ever closer. At what cost to certain freedoms?
:29:12. > :29:19.We are joined by Lee Scott, the Conservative MP for Ilford North
:29:19. > :29:22.and by the Labour MP, Stephen Pound. Welcome. First, London's shortage
:29:22. > :29:27.of affordable housing. One report has claimed that a million young
:29:27. > :29:32.people will be locked out of homeownership by the year 2020
:29:32. > :29:36.meaning that they may never own. What about the cost of renting? The
:29:36. > :29:41.definition of social housing is changing. Many tenants are set to
:29:41. > :29:51.have to pay more. The Mayor is expected now to take a lead on this,
:29:51. > :29:58.The Mayor of London has taken control their three billion-pound
:29:58. > :30:02.fund for housing, land and property assets -- housing assets. We have a
:30:02. > :30:09.housing crisis in London. We have a massive challenge to provide enough
:30:09. > :30:15.affordable homes. Homes for London is that, it is there to put the GLA
:30:15. > :30:20.land together but we have at our disposal to get the pension funds
:30:20. > :30:24.to invest, to get as many new homes built as we can possibly do. This
:30:24. > :30:28.week, he claimed he was on track to provide London with 100,000
:30:28. > :30:34.affordable homes over his two terms in office, but to the figures tell
:30:34. > :30:38.us the full story? Housing figures are notoriously complex. Everyone
:30:38. > :30:42.in London knows that they are not really skiing -- really seeing a
:30:42. > :30:49.big step change in housing. It is just not affordable for people
:30:49. > :30:52.renting. That is why the mayor, it is right that he has created homes
:30:52. > :30:57.for London, but he needs to use that organisation to drive to
:30:57. > :31:03.change. Questions remain whether the target of 100,000 homes is
:31:03. > :31:08.enough and with soaring rent, or what affordable really means.
:31:08. > :31:12.The Deputy Mayor for housing, Richard Blake way, joined. Welcome.
:31:12. > :31:21.Setting off on a second term, are you worried by the task that is
:31:21. > :31:25.ahead of you? It is a huge challenge in London. I think the
:31:25. > :31:28.challenge is not a recent one. It has been decades in the making.
:31:28. > :31:33.Social housing waiting lists doubled during the boom decade. It
:31:33. > :31:37.is a big challenge. With the new powers, we have an opportunity to
:31:37. > :31:46.make a difference. It will take many, many years to tackle these
:31:46. > :31:54.issues. Latest figures show that in the last year there were just 198
:31:54. > :31:59.Stark's for new homes for social rent in the capital. -- 198 spaces.
:31:59. > :32:03.If the go is also show that 30,000 affordable homes were completed in
:32:03. > :32:13.London last year. That is the highest number since the mid-90s
:32:13. > :32:13.
:32:13. > :32:19.mack. The figures show that in one year, housing starts went up 30%.
:32:19. > :32:23.The reality is that we are driving through large house building
:32:23. > :32:28.programmes, and we have done a record number of affordable homes
:32:28. > :32:33.in the first term. We will continue that work. With the considerable
:32:33. > :32:39.housing subsidy available, which will come on to, 200 homes for
:32:39. > :32:44.social rent started this year. So presumably not many more than that
:32:44. > :32:49.will be completed this year. That is not enough. During this year,
:32:49. > :32:55.the year we are currently in, our expectation is that we will start
:32:55. > :33:01.around 8000 affordable homes. last year, you have started just
:33:02. > :33:05.200. That is all that can be completed in this year. The problem
:33:05. > :33:09.is you are looking at one particular product. I am looking at
:33:09. > :33:14.a particular year. You are looking at one particular year and products.
:33:14. > :33:21.If you look at the Big Picture, over these mayoral terms, we will
:33:21. > :33:27.deliver 100,000 homes. We have accepted the 50,000 or whatever,
:33:27. > :33:31.but I wonder what seems to have gone wrong in the last 12 months
:33:32. > :33:37.that we are set to provide just 200 homes next year. Nothing has gone
:33:37. > :33:41.wrong. What you have seen is a difficult circumstances, very
:33:41. > :33:45.challenging economic circumstances, and a record amount of almost been
:33:45. > :33:51.completed. How many social rented homes will there be at the end of
:33:51. > :33:55.this year, completed, given that we only started 200 last year. This
:33:55. > :33:58.year you will see a large number, thousands of social rented homes
:33:58. > :34:05.completed and he will also see affordable rented homes completed
:34:05. > :34:08.which are at a range of rents, not 80%. The average is 65%. You'll
:34:08. > :34:14.also see opportunities for first- time buyers through low-cost
:34:14. > :34:18.ownership. I want to make his point. London's economy relies on a lot of
:34:18. > :34:22.people who are not traditionally seen as key workers, people work in
:34:22. > :34:26.the service industry, restaurants, retail, hospitality. We have to
:34:26. > :34:30.provide them for opportune -- with opportunities to be able to afford
:34:30. > :34:37.to live in the city. I think what we're doing is important. Londoners
:34:37. > :34:44.have picked up that you have put more emphasis on that. 4000 homes
:34:44. > :34:48.overall including this new model, raising it to 60% or 80% of market
:34:48. > :34:53.rent, so more expensive than current social housing. Only 4000
:34:53. > :34:59.of those overall started this last year. Presumably only around that
:34:59. > :35:05.number can be completed next year. Do you accept that? I accept that
:35:05. > :35:11.we will deliver 55,000 affordable occupations. In previous years,
:35:11. > :35:17.there have been 10 or 11 or 12,000 every year. That transfers to
:35:17. > :35:22.13,000 completions the following year. There has been no housing
:35:22. > :35:27.this year being built. You know that is not true. In the last year,
:35:27. > :35:31.we have done more affordable completions than at any point.
:35:31. > :35:38.thinking about next year. And you also know that in the last mayoral
:35:38. > :35:43.term we have done a record number of formal completions. And over
:35:43. > :35:49.this and Bess and round we will do for 55,000 formal completions.
:35:49. > :35:52.is that possible when the money available over the next few years
:35:52. > :35:59.is a third to a half of the money available to you over the last
:35:59. > :36:03.three years. The model has changed. We are levering in a large amount
:36:03. > :36:07.of resources from our providers, from housing associations. In
:36:07. > :36:12.London you will see �3 billion coming in from other sources, from
:36:12. > :36:20.borrowing, from the capacity, the resources of housing providers. �3
:36:20. > :36:25.billion being committed, still in the billions. It is not a gift. How
:36:25. > :36:29.are they committing money? It is money that is going to have to be
:36:29. > :36:36.paid for subsequently by higher rents. Over this invest around, we
:36:36. > :36:39.are providing around �1.7 billion in housing grants. That is matched
:36:39. > :36:44.by Housing Association and our providers, who were bringing in
:36:44. > :36:49.their own borrowing and resources. We have a match of public and
:36:49. > :36:51.private money, which is seeing a housing delivery continue at a high
:36:51. > :36:56.level. What you're seeing is affordable completions at a high
:36:56. > :37:03.number. It is not just about affordable houses. It is a big area.
:37:03. > :37:07.I think it was important we focus on that. Out in Redbridge, 25
:37:07. > :37:12.completions of affordable homes last year. After London, not known
:37:12. > :37:19.for its affordable housing, the worst record in the capital. Is
:37:19. > :37:23.there something going wrong? point is that what is needed is
:37:23. > :37:29.quality homes their families wish to live in. There are a number of
:37:29. > :37:34.start-ups. You're right, but I can't give you the reasons why the
:37:34. > :37:38.completions are low. However, if you look at the period, there will
:37:38. > :37:43.be delivery of homes and what I am delighted that is that the mayor
:37:43. > :37:50.has insisted that there to 3% of them will be family homes. Richard
:37:50. > :37:54.Blake wasted this first off, that this has been a years and years of
:37:54. > :38:00.successive governments failing to invest and we are all on a ruptured
:38:00. > :38:03.-- we're on an upward trajectory. You have to look at when those
:38:03. > :38:07.building projects started. The key here is one of the bigger social
:38:07. > :38:11.disasters we have ever seen in this country, the UN control right to
:38:11. > :38:16.buy frenzy which is being replicated by Grant Shapps, who has
:38:16. > :38:22.come up with an absurd idea that you can sell the council house for
:38:22. > :38:27.a massive discount and then by a new one. The figures are mendacious
:38:27. > :38:34.because we have abandoned the affordable housing components of
:38:34. > :38:40.the new housing plan. And it was a very sensible thing. If somebody is
:38:40. > :38:42.building 100 new roles -- 100 new homes, 50 should be affordable. We
:38:42. > :38:47.now have an idea where housing associations are being funded
:38:47. > :38:51.directly to provide the housing which then fills in the vacuum, the
:38:51. > :38:58.short gap that the mayor is promising to provide. That is
:38:58. > :39:03.mendacious. A final point? What you're going to be building, and we
:39:03. > :39:08.now know, is going to be 60 and 80% of market rent, be on the reach of
:39:08. > :39:15.many people. There is a range of rents being delivered. Three-
:39:15. > :39:19.quarters of rented homes will be social rented levels. They will get
:39:19. > :39:24.housing benefit as well. By do not think anyone should be no guide the
:39:24. > :39:28.opportunity to purchase their own home. -- should be denied. We have
:39:28. > :39:34.a range of challenges and I think we have focused on them. We should
:39:34. > :39:42.focus on the economic benefits of housing. Also, the opportunity
:39:42. > :39:44.gives low-paid Londoners. Close to where they work. We have to tackle
:39:44. > :39:49.homelessness and design and quality problems. Those are the challenges.
:39:49. > :39:55.Housing numbers are just part of it. There are wide range of challenges
:39:55. > :39:57.that we will seek to tackle. that note, thank you very much.
:39:57. > :40:01.The Olympics are coming to London, but do they have too many
:40:01. > :40:05.conditions attached? Some have expressed concerns at an
:40:05. > :40:10.overbearing approach to things like restrictions to what marketing
:40:10. > :40:15.businesses can do and what pictures can be uploaded to you chewed by
:40:15. > :40:20.spectators. The games are being organised by the IOC and another
:40:20. > :40:25.company. Have they been invested with too much power?
:40:25. > :40:30.Singapore in 2005, the day before the International Olympic Committee
:40:30. > :40:35.announced who has won the 2012 games. Every city had to find --
:40:35. > :40:41.signed a contract promising all the big bosses powers. New York was
:40:41. > :40:46.bidding and they wanted to renegotiate the split from
:40:46. > :40:50.broadcasting rights. They were told, sign it as it is or you do not
:40:50. > :40:57.enter the ballot. The result is that the IOC and the organisers of
:40:57. > :41:03.the London Games have been legally -- invested with legal leash
:41:03. > :41:09.enshrined powers that others could not leave off.
:41:09. > :41:16.Local fog and the IOC probably want to behave as if they were at an
:41:16. > :41:22.estate within an estate, in London, they want to impose their vision of
:41:22. > :41:25.a happy city full of happy people while they are here. Olympic
:41:25. > :41:32.officials will receive VIP treatment. They will be fast-
:41:32. > :41:37.tracked through immigration. 30 miles of games lanes will be
:41:37. > :41:41.reserved for officials and sponsors. The important thing is that we have
:41:41. > :41:45.negotiated an agreement about flexibility so that they will
:41:45. > :41:49.operate when the are needed and they will not operate when they are
:41:49. > :41:52.not needed. There are not going to set their empty threat the Olympics
:41:52. > :41:58.if there is not a volume of Olympic traffic for which they are
:41:58. > :42:03.designated. Freedom of expression may also be limited to protect
:42:03. > :42:10.broadcasting rights. People will be banned from wobbling videos all to
:42:10. > :42:14.Twitter, Facebook and others have run up works. -- uploading videos.
:42:14. > :42:19.1 Twitter feed that satirise the Games has been closed down on the
:42:19. > :42:29.basis that it was using the 2012 Load & Go. We used to their own
:42:29. > :42:31.
:42:31. > :42:36.language, their own terminology, things like "Please enjoy your
:42:36. > :42:42.daily sample of sunshine. EDF Energy will be offering you a
:42:42. > :42:48.specific rate." Companies open to make money out of the game's past
:42:48. > :42:51.two -- have to walk out -- have to watch out. Using words like London
:42:51. > :42:56.and 2012 could lead to legal action. I can understand why they have to
:42:56. > :43:01.protect the brand, there is no question. They have got to raise
:43:01. > :43:05.over �2 billion and that is a lot of money. Sponsors spent millions.
:43:05. > :43:09.So they have to protect the brand. I think there needs to be common
:43:09. > :43:14.sense. We are a out a a two a team sponsors or keeping Olympic --
:43:14. > :43:20.doing Olympic officials what they asked for, there may have been all
:43:20. > :43:26.London 2012. Officials may vary as to whether it was worth it.
:43:26. > :43:29.Over protecting the brand? Contracts have been signed for
:43:29. > :43:34.billions of pounds with sponsors and built into that sponsorship is
:43:34. > :43:38.the right to use the local. Any company is who have done any
:43:38. > :43:44.services to the Olympics can put it on the website, together with other
:43:44. > :43:48.clients, but not on its own. What about people who want to start up a
:43:48. > :43:56.all the big cafe, or their shoulders about -- stories about
:43:56. > :44:03.somebody making choux buns -- sugar buns in the shape of... Who were
:44:03. > :44:09.that the Government was would have found themselves in these issues.
:44:09. > :44:13.We have a number of cafe Olympus venues around my way. I saw an
:44:13. > :44:16.advert for Olympic Clock dogs. You see all of that, and you have to
:44:16. > :44:23.protect its to a certain extent. But people will do it anyway and
:44:23. > :44:29.these are just warnings. All that because the cream doughnuts, it's
:44:29. > :44:34.ironic, I suppose. -- Olympic donuts. Are we bending the knee too
:44:34. > :44:38.much to the IOC? I am worried. Bending the knee to the IOC, I
:44:38. > :44:42.think we can work on this. Initially, think everyone would
:44:42. > :44:47.that their products, look at the land control and the business of
:44:47. > :44:51.moving people, all of those things. Prison element of something
:44:51. > :44:55.worrying. But just think about the fact that they are probably only
:44:55. > :45:01.commemorating the Munich murders. If someone goes wrong at the
:45:01. > :45:06.Olympics, it could be 10 times the scale all Munich. Paranoid is not
:45:06. > :45:12.the wrong -- and not the right word. We know about jumping queues at
:45:12. > :45:16.immigration. Perhaps special arrangements for Health. Can you
:45:16. > :45:19.understand why these arrangements are in place, and is there a danger
:45:20. > :45:25.and that it could lead to a backlash or resentment if there is
:45:25. > :45:29.chaos in the streets of London? think it is important to stop chaos
:45:29. > :45:33.on the streets, that measures are replaced, and that the lanes should
:45:33. > :45:38.be in use as is being planned at certain times. The difficulty will
:45:38. > :45:41.come that, yes, anyone who says there will not be a burden, that
:45:41. > :45:46.will not be correct. But I hope and believe that the measures in place
:45:46. > :45:52.will be able to cope with it. But what is vitally important and I
:45:52. > :45:55.come back to it again is that the games were all was played as they
:45:55. > :45:59.had to have sponsorship for billions of pounds. The people who
:45:59. > :46:03.pay that money expect certain results. I think it is surprising
:46:03. > :46:08.that hospitals are being moved. There are 40 medical suites within
:46:08. > :46:18.the Olympic village. I think it is just an anticipated back up.
:46:18. > :46:26.
:46:26. > :46:31.Let's get a round-up in 60 seconds. Plans for the opening Olympic
:46:31. > :46:36.ceremony were unveiled, revealing a vision of the green and pleasant
:46:36. > :46:40.land. It will feature 70 sheep, 12 horses and ten chickens and will
:46:40. > :46:47.cost �27 million! Jeremy Hunt announced the budget
:46:47. > :46:52.for the Games has come in over �400 million under budget. That is from
:46:52. > :46:57.the overall final �9.3 billion budget as opposed to the original
:46:57. > :47:04.one of �2.4 billion. A green light for a levy of up to
:47:04. > :47:10.�2,500 on utility firms who dig up busy roads in London has come into
:47:10. > :47:14.effect. Tube staff have voted for
:47:14. > :47:20.industrial action over a plan to move control centre employees from
:47:21. > :47:29.Piccadilly to Hammersmith. The RMT staff have voted for strike action,
:47:29. > :47:35.citing disagreements over jobs and conditions.
:47:35. > :47:37.I want to talk about roadworks, but you want to talk about this
:47:38. > :47:44.pastoral idyll? One of the interesting facts was they said
:47:44. > :47:48.they were going to use artificial rain. There will be a need for
:47:48. > :47:55.that(!) They may not need the artificial! What about the image?
:47:55. > :47:59.It's very, very interesting. We will see... As bad as that! We will
:47:59. > :48:03.have cricket, a village, animals, ponds... The England we know and
:48:03. > :48:13.love. There is a suggestion that he's released this detail now but
:48:13. > :48:20.there will be surprises in there. Danny Boyle has been cunning! I
:48:21. > :48:26.have never seen anything so bonkers since John Major's thing about
:48:26. > :48:35.drinking warm beer... The grass and the sheep? The idea you can re-
:48:35. > :48:39.create a non-existent Teletubby Middle-earth that never did exist!
:48:39. > :48:43.Somebody there, who is following those two shire horses, appears to
:48:43. > :48:53.be a GM crop protester. We will carry this on. We have to stop.
:48:53. > :49:01.
:49:01. > :49:07.The week ahead will be dominated by the fallout of the Greek elections
:49:07. > :49:12.and the meetings in Mexico. This morning, we learned Justice Leveson
:49:12. > :49:19.was irritated by comments made by Michael Gove, he was moved to call
:49:19. > :49:22.the Cabinet Secretary to complain. Mr Gove complained Leveson's
:49:22. > :49:32.deliberations were creating a chilling atmosphere towards the
:49:32. > :49:38.
:49:38. > :49:42.freedom of the press. It certainly got our Adam all of a Twitter.
:49:42. > :49:50.It's been open season for political watchers as a flock of top
:49:50. > :49:57.politicians landed at the Royal Courts of Justice this week. Here's
:49:57. > :50:01.a big one - it's David Cameron. Giving evidence on Thursday, the
:50:01. > :50:08.PM's feathers looked ruffle when the inquiry turned up a syncy text
:50:09. > :50:12.from the former Sun editor Rebekah Brooks. I'm so rooting for you
:50:12. > :50:20.tomorrow, not just as a personal friend, but because professionally
:50:20. > :50:25.we are definitely in this together. Speech of your life? Yes, he can!
:50:25. > :50:29.The Sun had made this decision to back the Conservatives, to part
:50:30. > :50:35.company with Labour, and so the Sun wanted to make sure it was helping
:50:35. > :50:39.the Conservative Party put its best foot forward. A lesser spotted
:50:39. > :50:47.Miliband. The Labour Leader used his evidence to launch an attack on
:50:47. > :50:52.the power of the Murdochs. I don't believe that one person should
:50:52. > :50:56.continue to control 37% or 34% of the newspaper market. I would say
:50:56. > :51:00.we should have no worries about someone owning up to 20% of the
:51:00. > :51:07.newspaper market, there is then a question about between 20-30%,
:51:07. > :51:12.where would you set a limit? I can see an ex-Prime Minister. Hang on,
:51:12. > :51:16.a flock of ex-Prime Ministers. The rarest of species, Gordon Brown
:51:16. > :51:22.raised eyebrows by swearing that no-one working for him ever uttered
:51:22. > :51:27.a word against his rivals. LOL. John Major said Rupert Murdoch had
:51:27. > :51:31.demanded he change his policy on Europe ahead of the '97 general
:51:31. > :51:37.election. Outside the court, it's finally becoming possible to spot
:51:37. > :51:41.what Lord Leveson might recommend. The fact that everybody's agreed
:51:41. > :51:44.that we shouldn't be having pre- publication scrutiny, there
:51:44. > :51:51.shouldn't be any state involvement in censorship, that means that what
:51:51. > :51:54.will come out of it will be basically a slightly vamped-up
:51:54. > :52:00.Press Complaints Commission and a slightly improved system of
:52:00. > :52:04.regulation. And all that's cost �3 million so far, but next month the
:52:04. > :52:10.inquiry enters its final phase and then I will have to take my
:52:11. > :52:19.binoculars elsewhere. So, how is all that going to play
:52:19. > :52:23.in the week ahead? Let's come on to the Prime
:52:23. > :52:27.Ministers in a minute. This story the Mail on Sunday, which if you
:52:27. > :52:30.read it, it says he probably didn't offer to resign because of the
:52:30. > :52:36.criticism. It does seem he called the Cabinet Secretary. This seems
:52:36. > :52:40.to be a thin-skinned judge, not used to criticism, these judges?
:52:40. > :52:44.is very sensitive. He seems to think he is heading up a judicial
:52:44. > :52:48.inquiry. He should take his position seriously. I think the
:52:48. > :52:53.criticism that Gove was making does hold. The question we should be
:52:53. > :52:57.asking is what is going to be the outcome of Leveson? We will have an
:52:57. > :53:01.overly regulated press that still remains a concentrated in terms of
:53:01. > :53:05.its ownership. That is really quite worrying. We need an irreverent
:53:05. > :53:08.press. We are all journalists. We know the importance of pushing the
:53:09. > :53:13.boundaries. We have to wonder what is going to be the outcome. This
:53:13. > :53:17.judge is not very happy at being criticised? This morning, I watched
:53:18. > :53:22.again the footage of Leveson ticking off Michael Gove saying, "I
:53:23. > :53:28.don't need to be told by you about the importance of free speech." I
:53:28. > :53:32.was really struck by the manner in which he said it. He was not happy.
:53:32. > :53:37.They are not used to this. other thing that struck me about
:53:37. > :53:42.the headline is that if anything, that will embolden Leveson to do
:53:42. > :53:45.more. It plays into what we are looking at here. Yes. Is he being
:53:45. > :53:48.criticised or is he being undermined? More criticised than
:53:48. > :53:52.undermined. I do find it surreal that you would respond to
:53:52. > :53:56.criticisms of being uncommitted to free speech by calling up the
:53:56. > :54:00.Cabinet Secretary and trying to close down one of your... There is
:54:00. > :54:07.an irony there. I'm stunned that he thought this wouldn't come out in
:54:07. > :54:10.some form as well. But I think Rowenna Davis is right, the big
:54:10. > :54:13.problem is yet to come. What will Leveson recommend as far as
:54:13. > :54:18.regulation goes and how does the Government respond to it? Which
:54:18. > :54:22.ever way it goes, it will infuriate some parts of the media. Let's come
:54:22. > :54:27.to the Prime Ministers. The consensus I suggest, but see if you
:54:27. > :54:35.agree, is that Mr Brown did not enhance his reputation. Mr Major
:54:35. > :54:39.did. David Cameron was doing fine until that amazing text of, "Yes,
:54:39. > :54:44.you can!" It is not his fault that he received such a text. The real
:54:44. > :54:48.job... We are all in this together. We have to remember this is a
:54:48. > :54:53.former Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, who point-blank denied he was
:54:53. > :54:55.preparing to call a snap election at the time there were a bunch of
:54:55. > :55:00.limousines going around Parliament Square waiting to pick up ministers
:55:01. > :55:04.to send them out to the country to begin the campaign. So it didn't
:55:04. > :55:08.incredibly surprise me to see him being, well, slightly economical
:55:08. > :55:13.with the truth, perhaps that is not entirely fair. I thought this week
:55:13. > :55:19.we saw the very best and the very worst of Gordon Brown, so... Where
:55:19. > :55:23.was the best bit? When he was talking about his child with
:55:23. > :55:30.movement, a genuine feeling that we cannot question for his child. The
:55:30. > :55:34.worst was when wu get this pathological sense of -- you get
:55:34. > :55:38.this pathological sense of - it must be lying. He seems to believe
:55:38. > :55:42.it himself. If a woman like Rebecca wade did that to your child, and
:55:42. > :55:47.splashed your child's problems all across the front of a tabloid,
:55:47. > :55:52.would you then invite her to slumber parties and go to her
:55:52. > :55:57.wedding? Sarah Brown is the most forgiving person in the world.
:55:57. > :56:00.we any evidence of that? A lot of journalists would say she is quite
:56:00. > :56:04.tough in defence of her family. What was remarkable was that all
:56:04. > :56:07.the prominent people who appeared before Leveson gave karktristy
:56:07. > :56:11.performances in the sense that Cameron -- characteristic
:56:11. > :56:19.performances in the sense that Cameron was rattled, Gordon Brown
:56:19. > :56:23.thinks there are no limits to people's credulity, John Major is a
:56:23. > :56:28.dignified person, George Osborne can be quite compelling when he ex-
:56:28. > :56:33.pounds on politics. He came across quite well? He did. Ed Miliband was
:56:33. > :56:39.very good. This job was not to cause any fuss so the pressure
:56:39. > :56:42.remained on the Government. I have to say I was expecting a more
:56:42. > :56:46.polished performance from Cameron. When we started this series, I
:56:46. > :56:51.remember you saying Cameron stands like a colossus over Parliament.
:56:51. > :56:54.What we saw here, a man who was quite defensive, quite disorganised
:56:54. > :56:59.and those texts I think were damaging. The narrative that
:56:59. > :57:04.Miliband's pushing, that this Prime Minister is now taint and this will
:57:05. > :57:09.continue throughout, and... That is characteristic of Cameron, even at
:57:09. > :57:13.Prime Minister's Questions, under intense questioning, he does become
:57:13. > :57:19.irritable. Somebody is lying under oath. Both Mr Murdoch and Mr Brown
:57:19. > :57:23.cannot be right about this phone call. Both Mr Brown and all the
:57:23. > :57:29.Blairites cannot be right about the dogs of war being unleashed by Mr
:57:29. > :57:33.Brown. Somebody has lied under oath. One significant point is that Peter
:57:33. > :57:37.Mandelson in his evidence did recall a conversation between
:57:37. > :57:44.Rupert Murdoch and Gordon Brown about exactly the issue that Brown
:57:44. > :57:51.claims was never discussed, so something is - it doesn't stack up.
:57:51. > :57:56.You know people are lying under oath because these positions are
:57:56. > :58:00.inconsistent. That is going to be quite damaging for public relations.
:58:00. > :58:05.It should said on Brown's defence, whether he briefed, whether his
:58:05. > :58:10.allies briefed against Tony Blair. He didn't say no, he said, "I would
:58:10. > :58:14.hope not." It was unconvincing. He didn't look convinced. He was
:58:14. > :58:17.playing with his ear and looking down. That was the most, the most
:58:17. > :58:22.jaw-dropping moment when he was saying that. I thought the main
:58:22. > :58:28.phone call was made to Mr Murdoch at the party conference when the
:58:28. > :58:34.Sun was dumping him. That is all for this week. Jo Coburn will be