:00:42. > :00:49.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Our top story
:00:49. > :00:51.today: The BBC leaderless and in turmoil this morning. After its
:00:51. > :00:54.director-general, George Entwistle, was forced to resign last night,
:00:54. > :01:00.there are calls this morning for BBC chairman Chris Patten to fall
:01:00. > :01:07.on his sword, too. All because of that Newsnight report which falsely
:01:07. > :01:10.accused a former Tory politician of sex abuse.
:01:10. > :01:13.How does the BBC restore trust following what Chris Patten has
:01:13. > :01:15.called Newsnight's shoddy journalism? We will hear from
:01:15. > :01:23.Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman and former Conservative Culture
:01:23. > :01:27.Secretary David Mellor. Britain fell silent at 11 this
:01:27. > :01:30.morning to remember its war dead on Remembrance Sunday. The Defence
:01:30. > :01:37.Secretary, Philip Hammond, joins us straight from the Cenotaph for the
:01:37. > :01:41.Sunday Interview. In London, added his more CCTV than anywhere else in
:01:42. > :01:51.the world, but could we one day see surveillance drones in the skies
:01:52. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :01:56.And with me today, a little later in the programme, our top political
:01:56. > :02:02.panel, Isabel Oakeshott, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt, who will be
:02:02. > :02:05.tweeting throughout the programme. So the BBC is in turmoil this
:02:05. > :02:07.morning after the resignation last night of George Entwistle,
:02:07. > :02:10.director-general and editor-in- chief of the organisation, over the
:02:10. > :02:13.decision to broadcast a report on Newsnight which alleged that a
:02:13. > :02:23.senior Conservative of the Thatcher era sexually abused a young man in
:02:23. > :02:23.
:02:23. > :02:30.the 1980s. The report, of course, turned out be wholly fallacious.
:02:30. > :02:33.Here is Adam Fleming with details of how the crisis has unfolded.
:02:33. > :02:37.Just weeks into the job, George Entwistle faced pressure that was
:02:37. > :02:45.unprecedented. Allegations against Jimmy Savile and accusations that
:02:45. > :02:51.an investigation into them had been dropped. Then this.
:02:51. > :02:58.A brand new crisis for Newsnight. Tonight this programme apologises.
:02:58. > :03:00.I key allegation in a report about child abuse was wrong. -- a key.
:03:00. > :03:03.Newsnight had broadcast a report claiming that an un-named
:03:03. > :03:06.Conservative politician had abused children at this care home in Wales.
:03:06. > :03:10.There was speculation on Twitter that it was the former party
:03:10. > :03:17.treasurer, Lord McAlpine. He denied it and threatened to sue. Then the
:03:17. > :03:19.victim came forward to say it was all a case of mistaken identity.
:03:19. > :03:25.Saturday morning and the director- general embarked on a round of
:03:25. > :03:30.interviews intended to be reassuring. They were the opposite.
:03:30. > :03:36.When did you find out? I found out the following day. You did not see
:03:36. > :03:42.it when it was broadcast? No, I was out.
:03:43. > :03:46.Hours later, and in the dark, he announced his resignation. I was
:03:47. > :03:50.confident the trustees had chosen the best candidate for the post and
:03:50. > :03:54.the right person to tackle the challenges ahead, however, the
:03:54. > :03:58.wholly exceptional events of the past few weeks have led me to
:03:58. > :04:02.conclude that the BBC should appoint a brand new leader.
:04:02. > :04:10.Now the pressure is on the man by his side, the chairman of the BBC
:04:10. > :04:16.Trust, Lord Patten. This morning he spoke to Andrew Marr. At the heart
:04:16. > :04:21.of our journalism in the BBC is good investigative, uncompromising
:04:21. > :04:26.investigative journalism. Newsnight has been part of that tradition
:04:26. > :04:29.with Panorama and others. We certainly want to hold on to that
:04:29. > :04:37.but we want to make sure it does not make the same sort of mistakes
:04:37. > :04:46.that have been made by Newsnight. Here at the BBC's brand new
:04:46. > :04:52.headquarters, the office of the temporary director, Tim Davie, and
:04:52. > :05:01.a hive of activity. The head of Newsnight has reduced yourself from
:05:01. > :05:04.that any Jimmy Savile related coverage This week the organisation
:05:04. > :05:06.was supposed to be celebrating its 90th birthday. Instead it is facing
:05:06. > :05:09.what virtually everyone is calling its gravest crisis.
:05:09. > :05:11.Adam Fleming reporting. And we can talk now to the BBC's media
:05:11. > :05:15.correspondent, Torin Douglas. Good afternoon. The chairman says he is
:05:15. > :05:19.not resigning but what will he have to do to keep his Jupp?
:05:19. > :05:25.He has got to sort out what happened on these two Newsnight
:05:25. > :05:30.programmes. Their inquiries into both the investigations. He has got
:05:30. > :05:33.to make sure that is dealt with quickly and thoroughly. Then he has
:05:33. > :05:38.got to appoint a brand new director-general that will make
:05:38. > :05:43.sure that the BBC is restructured. He said the BBC needed a radical
:05:43. > :05:48.overhaul. There are two reports coming up on
:05:48. > :05:51.Newsnight, one of them may come out today. Are there developing doubts
:05:51. > :05:56.that Newsnight will survive beyond Christmas?
:05:56. > :06:01.I think that is the case. Lord Patten said he will discuss that
:06:01. > :06:06.with the brand-new acting director- general. Lots of people think that
:06:06. > :06:10.the brand is so tarnished that it cannot survive. He said that
:06:10. > :06:15.investigative journalism on the BBC would survive, that that was very
:06:15. > :06:19.important. In the building that we're both in,
:06:19. > :06:24.is their unexpected bloodbath looming for senior managers?
:06:24. > :06:30.I think some managers will go. Whether it is a bloodbath will
:06:31. > :06:33.depend on what these two reports will say. George Entwistle is not
:06:33. > :06:39.the last BBC executive to go. Joining me now is Harriet Harman,
:06:39. > :06:44.the deputy leader of the Labour Party. Good afternoon. After that
:06:44. > :06:49.car crash of an interview on the Today programme, most people
:06:49. > :06:54.concluded that Mr Entwhistle had no choice but to go. He went last
:06:54. > :07:01.night at 9 o'clock. But does the chairman of the BBC Trust bear
:07:01. > :07:04.responsibility, he appointed Mr Entwistle? I think everybody has
:07:04. > :07:10.part of the responsibility but George Entwistle has resigned and
:07:10. > :07:13.now there needs to be a period of stability and rebuilding. There
:07:13. > :07:18.does have to be an investigation into what actually went wrong in
:07:18. > :07:23.the issues that you have listed. There are clearly systemic problems
:07:23. > :07:30.that possibly George Entwistle wanted to deal with. We do not need
:07:30. > :07:36.more instability. Part of the problem for the BBC is, as you say,
:07:36. > :07:42.everybody has responsibility. As we find out the hard way, when
:07:42. > :07:46.everyone has responsibility, nobody has responsibility. George
:07:46. > :07:52.Entwistle has taken responsibility. The buck stopped with him.
:07:52. > :07:58.Chris Patten should stay? I think he has an important job to do as
:07:58. > :08:01.the chairman of the trust. You have described it as Carl Mall, but
:08:01. > :08:06.there are programmes, news programmes, culture programmes and
:08:06. > :08:13.sports programmes, that everyone in this country that loves and wants
:08:13. > :08:18.to watch. Some MPs are saying that the BBC Trust has failed. They are
:08:18. > :08:24.saying that the BBC should now be regulated by Ofcom, which regulates
:08:24. > :08:31.other parts of broadcasting? brand-new settlement of the
:08:31. > :08:37.governments of the BBC was recently agreed. In 2006. To pull everything
:08:37. > :08:41.up at the roots would not be a good idea. I am in no doubt about the
:08:41. > :08:46.seriousness of this, there are the victims of those who were abused by
:08:46. > :08:51.Jimmy Savile, then there was the decision to do a programme about
:08:51. > :08:56.Jimmy Savile. Now there is the wrongful allegations. Do you
:08:56. > :09:02.believe this should be sorted out by the BBC Trust, not by a brand
:09:02. > :09:08.new regulatory regime? I believe at this point that the BBC has its
:09:08. > :09:12.governing structure. One thing that parliamentarians must resist is we
:09:12. > :09:18.must not allow the next victim of this debacle to be the independence
:09:18. > :09:24.of the BBC. We have to resist answering the question, should
:09:24. > :09:30.Newsnight carry on? That is a question for the BBC. We do not
:09:30. > :09:35.want politicians to start macro managing this. There are other
:09:35. > :09:43.institutions and people in the frame. The deputy chairman, you're
:09:43. > :09:47.deputy, is Tom Watson. He has claimed under cover of Commons
:09:47. > :09:53.privilege that there was a Tory paedophile ring in Thatcher's
:09:53. > :09:58.Downing Street. Is there any merit to that claim? He has passed
:09:58. > :10:03.information that he has to the police. Have you asked him about
:10:03. > :10:08.the quality of information that he has? I have asked him and he says
:10:08. > :10:12.he has passed the information to the police. Have you asked about
:10:13. > :10:18.the integrity of disinformation, does it justify the claim that he
:10:18. > :10:24.has made? He thinks it justifies the claim and he has passed it to
:10:24. > :10:30.the police. Ultimately it is for the police to investigate. He is
:10:30. > :10:34.the deputy chairman of the Labour Party. He has also claimed that a
:10:34. > :10:39.senior aide to a Tory Prime Minister was involved in a child
:10:39. > :10:47.abuse ring. Is there any merit in that? Obviously he has information
:10:47. > :10:51.that he has passed to the police. Have you seen it? No. I have not
:10:51. > :10:57.ask to see that information but I have assured myself that he has
:10:57. > :11:00.pass that information to the police. Have you assured yourself that this
:11:00. > :11:07.information is of sufficient integrity to justify making these
:11:07. > :11:17.claims? I have not. By it he is the deputy of the Labour Party? Yes,
:11:17. > :11:20.but he was doing it in his capacity as a Member of Parliament. We must
:11:20. > :11:26.not have a chilling effect on recognising that there is a problem
:11:26. > :11:32.of child abuse. There clearly is. That is important for the BBC as
:11:32. > :11:38.well, because it has got it badly wrong. Another thing that is
:11:38. > :11:42.important is that people do not make wild and unsubstantiated
:11:42. > :11:47.accusations that result in senior people being accused of things
:11:47. > :11:52.which are wholly false. That has happened, not just with Lord
:11:52. > :11:58.McAlpine, but with many other public names who have been smeared
:11:58. > :12:03.terribly on the Internet. The kind of accusations Tom Watson made in
:12:03. > :12:10.the house encourage that. He did not make any mention of any names.
:12:10. > :12:14.He spoke of his senior aide to a Tory Prime Minister. That
:12:14. > :12:19.immediately encourages massive twitchers speculation and names
:12:19. > :12:26.have, into the frame. People have been named although there is no
:12:26. > :12:34.evidence. Is that a proper thing to do? I cannot say, having not seen
:12:34. > :12:40.the information, whether it will It is not for me to evaluate the
:12:40. > :12:45.information. He is a senior Labour figure, as he is making accusations
:12:45. > :12:50.of a paedophile ring in Downing Street. Have you not ask to see the
:12:50. > :12:55.information? I have satisfied myself that it has been passed to
:12:56. > :13:03.the police. I do not think it makes any purpose firm need to make a
:13:03. > :13:09.judgement as to whether this was warranted. Let's come to ITV and
:13:09. > :13:13.the ambition of the Prime Minister with names taken from the Internet
:13:13. > :13:23.and bandy to the Prime Minister. What should ITV bosses, or Ofcom,
:13:23. > :13:26.
:13:26. > :13:30.What this shows, and I think there is an element of this in relation
:13:30. > :13:35.to Newsnight as well, the relationship between Trust at
:13:35. > :13:40.public service broadcasters who have a responsibility to act with
:13:40. > :13:46.integrity and be balanced, and also the issue of the internet, and
:13:46. > :13:52.those broadcasters with public- service responsibility should be
:13:52. > :13:54.careful not crossed the line. should happen to ITV over its
:13:54. > :13:59.ambushing of the Prime Minister with names plucked off the
:13:59. > :14:04.internet? The complaint has been made to Ofcom and that is the
:14:04. > :14:09.proper body to be looking into this. I know it is sounding like I am
:14:09. > :14:15.saying the police should be doing this, the BBC Trust should be doing
:14:16. > :14:22.this, but the point is you don't actually want politicians with the
:14:22. > :14:25.government running these broadcasters. Thank you for being
:14:25. > :14:30.with us. Chris Patten was also asked earlier this morning about
:14:30. > :14:36.the wider implications for the whole of the BBC. This is what he
:14:36. > :14:41.had to say. When George said that we had to get away from the silos
:14:41. > :14:46.in the BBC, away from the infighting, be more self-critical,
:14:46. > :14:52.devolve decisions far more for money and editorial decisions, he
:14:52. > :14:56.was spot-on and the tragedy is two weeks after he set himself to start
:14:56. > :15:02.doing those things, he was overwhelmed by a crisis which was
:15:02. > :15:08.partly caused by some of those things. If you are asking if the
:15:08. > :15:12.BBC needs a radical structural overhaul, then absolutely. I am
:15:12. > :15:16.joined now by the former conservative Culture Secretary
:15:16. > :15:22.David Mellor and the former BBC editor of the Today programme,
:15:22. > :15:27.Kevin Marsh. Kevin, Jeremy Paxman claims George Entwistle was brought
:15:27. > :15:37.down by cowards, incompetence and time-servers - do you know who he
:15:37. > :15:44.is talking about? The not really, that is pretty typical Jeremy, to
:15:44. > :15:48.be honest. I think his is the wrong analysis, but there you go. One sit
:15:48. > :15:52.inevitable, after first of for his appearance before the select
:15:52. > :15:56.committee which didn't impress many people, and even worse the car
:15:56. > :16:01.crash of an interview yesterday on the Today programme, the director
:16:01. > :16:10.general had to go? A in 20 minutes we saw the strengths and weaknesses
:16:10. > :16:14.of the BBC. A fantastic interview, and demand shaking in the limelight
:16:14. > :16:18.he was fine not meeting too many people outside, but as someone who
:16:18. > :16:24.would command confidence more widely in his leadership abilities
:16:24. > :16:29.George Entwistle never did that so he had to go. Now the question is
:16:29. > :16:33.should he have been appointed in the first place? We will come on to
:16:33. > :16:39.that in a minute. Isn't the harsh truth that the director general was
:16:39. > :16:47.brought down by his own inability to rein in some appalling
:16:47. > :16:50.journalism on Jeremy Paxman's own programme? That is a fair analysis.
:16:50. > :16:57.Whether this scandal would have brought him down without the
:16:57. > :17:03.previous Jimmy Savile crisis, I don't know. The McAlpine scandal
:17:03. > :17:07.was even worse. The problem was, and David is right, George had a
:17:07. > :17:12.particular management style. A very likeable bloke, very honest,
:17:12. > :17:19.integrity, but he did have a vision of the way the BBC should be run.
:17:19. > :17:24.He tried to explain it to MPs, try to explain it badly to John
:17:24. > :17:32.Humphrys, and the outside world can see the BBC doesn't speak like that.
:17:32. > :17:36.You have got to make sure the system does that. George Entwistle
:17:36. > :17:43.was appointed by Lord Patten, the chairman of the BBC Trust - is his
:17:43. > :17:47.job now on the line? Yes, inevitably. I am very fond of Chris,
:17:47. > :17:52.one of the finest people of my generation in politics and it is a
:17:52. > :17:59.shame circumstances conspired against him from going further in
:17:59. > :18:09.the Tory party, but he doesn't have seemed to have played a good part
:18:09. > :18:13.in this. We can't have much confidence in his ability to pick
:18:13. > :18:21.someone the second time and we don't know what his role is. Visit
:18:21. > :18:27.to apologise and occasionally criticised the BBC, or to run the
:18:27. > :18:33.BBC? He had to the corridors of Oxford, he has other jobs, I just
:18:33. > :18:38.think it needs someone more energetic and focused. So the BBC
:18:38. > :18:44.needs a new chairman as well? fire was him, I would consider
:18:44. > :18:48.whether I am so tainted by this nonsense... I mean, look, George
:18:48. > :18:52.had the leadership qualities of Winnie the Pooh when it came to the
:18:52. > :19:02.world outside. If we had been sitting and we had George Entwistle
:19:02. > :19:06.
:19:06. > :19:10.been, we would not have appointed him. The point is he is not a
:19:10. > :19:14.credible person, and if Chris Patten says I would do the same
:19:14. > :19:20.again, I don't think he should be given the opportunity to do that.
:19:20. > :19:26.Now the BBC has an acting editor in chief who has zero experience of
:19:26. > :19:30.journalism - how does that work? Look ing at the comments on Twitter
:19:30. > :19:36.and the internet last night and this morning, BBC journalists don't
:19:36. > :19:40.think very much of it. Tim Davie is a very sound pair of hands. He has
:19:40. > :19:43.other qualities, but not a journalist. He has to take this
:19:43. > :19:48.crisis by the throat, he is probably the man for that but I
:19:48. > :19:54.personally don't think he is the long-term answer. A everyone wants
:19:54. > :20:01.the BBC to continue doing proper journalism, but is Newsnight as a
:20:01. > :20:04.brand tainted beyond redemption? think so. Newsnight, there will
:20:04. > :20:09.always be a Newsnight but I do think there may be a cathartic
:20:09. > :20:13.moment when you replace it by news late evening or news almost
:20:13. > :20:21.tomorrow morning but I don't see how Newsnight as a brand can
:20:21. > :20:27.survive this. The awful thing about McAlpine was it was so grotesque.
:20:27. > :20:32.Relying on a man who is a weirdo. He has already cost 1.5 million in
:20:32. > :20:37.libel damages when he accused a policeman of sexually abusing him.
:20:37. > :20:43.And why didn't they show a photograph? The idea of Alastair
:20:43. > :20:47.McAlpine being involved in child abuse is so ludicrous. Does
:20:47. > :20:53.Newsnight survive beyond Christmas? I think it survives but it might
:20:53. > :20:58.well survive in a different form. I suspect one of the conclusions
:20:58. > :21:02.drawn from this is that investigation has got to be pulled
:21:02. > :21:07.under a single umbrella. It is quite true that some very basic
:21:07. > :21:11.things went wrong with this investigation, one of which
:21:11. > :21:16.incidentally was why was an outside contractor, if you like, the Bureau
:21:16. > :21:21.of investigative journalism trusted with such a contentious
:21:21. > :21:26.investigation? They are very keen to get a foot in the door of major
:21:27. > :21:31.news organisations but this does cast a question over them. It the
:21:31. > :21:35.BBC is going to do investigative journalism, surely it has to do it
:21:35. > :21:41.itself? This weird organisation boasting about what Newsnight was
:21:41. > :21:45.going to do was totally inappropriate. I say this a someone,
:21:45. > :21:50.a broadcasting minister on and off for 10 years, I had to put my tin
:21:50. > :21:55.hat on and defend the BBC which I did with enthusiasm so I speak as a
:21:55. > :22:05.friend of the BBC who can't understand or the stuff and I feel
:22:05. > :22:09.the BBC has to get its grip. Otherwise the enemy's will rise up.
:22:09. > :22:15.Gentlemen, thank you. The eleventh- hour of the 11th day of the 11th
:22:15. > :22:18.month, yesterday Remembrance Sunday coincide with Armistice Day. David
:22:18. > :22:24.Cameron and other political leaders assembled in London this morning to
:22:24. > :22:28.lay wreaths to one of the war dead. Old be speaking to Philip Hammond
:22:28. > :22:36.in just a moment, but first here is a reminder of what is currently on
:22:36. > :22:38.his desk. Mr Hammond took over as Secretary of State of defence from
:22:38. > :22:42.Liam Fox just over a year ago, since when he has been busy. The
:22:42. > :22:48.former businessman and heritage department cutting the number of
:22:48. > :22:53.troops in the army from just over 100,000 to just over 80,000 by 2020.
:22:53. > :22:57.This week he fleshed out plans to double the size of the Territorial
:22:57. > :23:03.Army to compensate for the squeeze on the regular army, taking the
:23:03. > :23:07.newly named Army Reserve from 15,000 to 30,000 personnel which
:23:07. > :23:12.has led to accusations the government wants an army on the
:23:12. > :23:15.cheap. Earlier this week he joined the Prime Minister on a tour of the
:23:15. > :23:19.Middle East to drum up business with hopes of selling more typhoon
:23:19. > :23:24.fighter jets to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. Another
:23:24. > :23:30.issue on his mind is Syria. This week David Cameron said more needed
:23:30. > :23:35.to be done to stop the bloodshed. Syrian President shows no sign of
:23:35. > :23:39.change. Meanwhile Philip Hammond is also managing to annoy his
:23:39. > :23:42.coalition partners by stating the government is committed to their
:23:42. > :23:48.like-for-like replacement for Trident, something the Liberal
:23:48. > :23:52.Democrats suppose. Whether he will be able to keep them happy remains
:23:52. > :24:02.to be seen. The Defence Secretary Philip Hammond joins me now for the
:24:02. > :24:04.
:24:04. > :24:10.You have just come from the Cenotaph and we are grateful you
:24:10. > :24:15.have done so. It is the nation's annual reminder the sacrifice men
:24:15. > :24:19.and women in uniform have made and continued to make. Can you explain
:24:19. > :24:24.how part-time soldiers can replace the thousands of full-time soldiers
:24:24. > :24:29.you're making redundant? Firstly I should say that many of the
:24:29. > :24:34.reservists who have been called up over the last 10 years to serve in
:24:34. > :24:38.Iraq and Afghanistan have made the same sacrifices that regulars have
:24:38. > :24:43.made and 29 of them have made the ultimate sacrifice. The answer to
:24:43. > :24:47.your question is that we have to cut our coat to fit the cloth and
:24:47. > :24:51.we have to deal with the budget problem in the MoD as well as the
:24:51. > :24:56.broader fiscal challenge as the government faces and part of that
:24:56. > :25:05.has been the acceptance of a smaller regular army, and in order
:25:05. > :25:10.to provide the resilience for an ongoing operation, we need to
:25:10. > :25:19.increase the number of army reservists from about 19,000
:25:19. > :25:29.trained TA soldiers to 30,000 by 2018. I think that is an achievable
:25:29. > :25:41.
:25:41. > :25:46.target. Let me show you this quote If I it address that question to
:25:46. > :25:52.the current chief of the General Staff, not a former chief of staff,
:25:52. > :25:57.the answer is yes, provided we use our reservists intelligently,
:25:57. > :26:03.provided we build on the concept of what the Army calls the whole force
:26:03. > :26:06.using regulars, reserves, civilians and contractors together. Yes, we
:26:06. > :26:10.can do it and it will mean using reservists not necessarily for the
:26:10. > :26:14.same task that regulars are doing but to provide the kind of support
:26:14. > :26:24.the army needs when it deploys, particularly on an end during
:26:24. > :26:32.
:26:32. > :26:38.operation. One makes you think you It is an increase from about 19,000
:26:38. > :26:43.to 30,000. Over the next six years we have got to find another 11,000.
:26:43. > :26:48.I think we can do that by working with employers, by improving the
:26:48. > :26:55.offer to reservists, and by making an attractive offer to it ex
:26:55. > :27:01.regulars leaving the regular forces, at a naked easier to them to join
:27:01. > :27:05.the reserves. That gives us more numbers and more resilience.
:27:05. > :27:13.will know that some employers do not take people on if they learn
:27:13. > :27:18.that they are in the Territorial Army. The Duke of Westminster has
:27:18. > :27:22.had the Territorial Army close to his heart for a long time. He has
:27:22. > :27:26.said that you should not be allowed to ask someone if they are in the
:27:26. > :27:32.Territorial Army when they apply for a job in the same way that you
:27:32. > :27:36.cannot ask a woman if she is pregnant. Do you agree? If there is
:27:36. > :27:43.evidence of significant widespread discrimination... Let's ask people
:27:43. > :27:47.in the reserves. If there is evidence of systematic
:27:47. > :27:53.discrimination, we certainly have not ruled out the option of
:27:53. > :27:56.legislation to prevent it. Employers are resistant. Why do you
:27:56. > :28:01.not encourage them, and say that the Government will pay the
:28:01. > :28:05.National Insurance of those involved? We have not ruled out the
:28:05. > :28:11.possibility of financial inducement to employers, particularly small
:28:11. > :28:16.employers. The Australians have a system that target's financial
:28:16. > :28:22.support on the smallest businesses. We have said that we would
:28:22. > :28:26.encourage responses on whether this would work. But we need to
:28:26. > :28:33.emphasise to employers how there can be mutual benefit in implying
:28:33. > :28:38.reservists. The Army spends a lot of money on training and increasing
:28:38. > :28:43.the skills of reservists. If we can do that, it can be a win-win
:28:43. > :28:48.situation. You have just come back from a tour of the Middle-East with
:28:48. > :28:53.the Prime Minister. You were reinforcing alliances and building
:28:53. > :28:58.up arms sales. While we used as secretive about the trip? We were
:28:58. > :29:05.not secretive about it. You did not take in the lobby journalists with
:29:05. > :29:09.you? We filled the aircraft. Every seat on the aircraft was full.
:29:09. > :29:12.chose the week of the American election because you knew that
:29:12. > :29:19.everyone would be watching that and you did not want the press coming
:29:19. > :29:26.with you, because he did not want them in Saudi Arabia? We had a
:29:26. > :29:32.significant number of journalists and there was significant coverage
:29:32. > :29:35.of the trip. I do not recognise the picture you're painting. Why do we
:29:36. > :29:42.sell arms to countries like Saudi Arabia with appalling human rights
:29:42. > :29:47.records? We have a long history of working with Saudi Arabia for
:29:47. > :29:54.stability in the region. Working with them for regional stability.
:29:54. > :29:59.Do we sell them arms? We do, particularly Fighter Aircraft.
:29:59. > :30:03.do not deny that they have an appalling human rights record?
:30:03. > :30:08.There is human rights record needs to improve and we continually make
:30:08. > :30:13.the point to them. To whom did you make that point when you were in
:30:14. > :30:21.Saudi Arabia last week? We saw the King and the Crown Prince. What did
:30:21. > :30:25.you tell the King about his human rights record? I am not going to
:30:25. > :30:29.discuss details of the conversation between the Prime Minister and the
:30:29. > :30:35.King of Saudi Arabia. We used the opportunity that our relationship
:30:35. > :30:39.gives us to emphasise to the Saudi Arabians and others that the best
:30:39. > :30:44.way to ensure stability in the future is a loosening of the grip
:30:44. > :30:50.that exists in those countries and a gradual and progressive opening
:30:50. > :30:55.two and more inclusive, and democratic society. They may not
:30:55. > :31:00.have to do that if you continue to sell them all these weapons. Let me
:31:00. > :31:10.show you this from the United Kingdom's strategic export controls
:31:10. > :31:13.
:31:13. > :31:19.You cannot possibly ensure that what we sell the Saudi Arabians
:31:19. > :31:23.will not be used for internal repression, correct? The equipment
:31:23. > :31:29.we supplied the Saudi Arabians is principally fighter aircraft and
:31:29. > :31:38.the support around them. We supply Saudi Arabia with assault rifles,
:31:38. > :31:43.body armour, machine guns, helmets, and combat shot guns. Can you give
:31:43. > :31:48.us any assurance that that would not be turned on their own people?
:31:48. > :31:52.Any application for equipment of that type, currently, would go
:31:52. > :31:57.through a process that would look at precisely the test that you have
:31:57. > :32:03.alluded to. If there was considered to be a risk that it could be used
:32:03. > :32:08.in internal repression, it would not be approved. So why did we sell
:32:08. > :32:12.them combat shot guns? I do not know if you have a date attached to
:32:12. > :32:18.that. I am just saying that this is the record of the British
:32:18. > :32:23.government. We have a very robust system of farms export licensing,
:32:23. > :32:28.probably the most robust system in the world. All applications are
:32:28. > :32:32.tested carefully against the criteria. Please do not forget that
:32:32. > :32:38.Saudi Arabia is at the heart of one of the most volatile regions in the
:32:38. > :32:44.world, threatened by the potential emergence of a nuclear armed Iran.
:32:44. > :32:50.It makes sense to build alliances that will at ensure stability in
:32:50. > :32:53.that region. You say it is an unstable region. While in the
:32:53. > :33:00.Middle-East, I think the Prime Minister was in Jordan when he said
:33:00. > :33:04.that, he said more needs to be done about Syria? Yes, the Prime
:33:04. > :33:10.Minister is frustrated by our inability to end the bloodshed. He
:33:10. > :33:13.wants to leave no stone unturned. The most constructive thing we can
:33:13. > :33:19.do is to maintain international pressure on those countries which
:33:19. > :33:27.are blocking action on the United Nations Security Council. That is
:33:27. > :33:30.the route that we used in Libya, the Security Council resolution
:33:30. > :33:36.allowed all like-minded countries around the world a legal basis to
:33:36. > :33:40.intervene and support the rebels. Do we relied military assistance?
:33:40. > :33:45.Are we do not rule it out, but at the moment we do not have a legal
:33:45. > :33:51.basis for doing that. The Prime Minister keeps asking us to test
:33:51. > :33:55.the legal position and the practical military position. Could
:33:55. > :33:58.we intervene with the majors humanitarian effort, because you
:33:58. > :34:05.chief-of-staff told the BBC this morning that if asked to, we could
:34:06. > :34:11.do that. Is that correct? We are already the second largest owners
:34:11. > :34:15.of humanitarian aid to the Syrian opposition. We have plans to step
:34:15. > :34:21.that up further if the situation requires it. I am sorry to
:34:21. > :34:26.interrupt, we're running out of time. I want to get on to Trident.
:34:26. > :34:31.What consideration have you given to scrapping Trident? We conducted
:34:31. > :34:35.a review and we decided that Britain would remain committed to a
:34:36. > :34:41.continuous deterrent. The Trident missiles and the warheads on them
:34:41. > :34:47.have many decades of life left in them. The only question is around
:34:47. > :34:53.replacing the submarines that carry them. They will go out of service
:34:54. > :34:57.in late 2020. We need to be able to replace them in time for that date.
:34:58. > :35:03.So when Nick Clegg says you have jumped the gun on this, is that
:35:03. > :35:10.true? We have an agreed programme that we will make the main
:35:10. > :35:14.investment decision in 2016, after the next election. In order to be
:35:14. > :35:20.unable -- in order to be able to make that decision, we have to
:35:20. > :35:25.invest in design and engineering development work right now. Let me
:35:25. > :35:35.show you what a format serve -- let me show you what a former
:35:35. > :35:41.
:35:41. > :35:46.Conservative Secretary of State for What do you say to that? We have
:35:46. > :35:49.the greatest respect to Michael Portillo, he has been out of
:35:49. > :35:52.government at the Ministry of Defence for a long while and he
:35:53. > :35:59.does not have access to the information that would allow him to
:35:59. > :36:02.make that judgment. There is as we speak at least one Royal Navy
:36:02. > :36:09.submarine armed with nuclear missiles cruising somewhere in the
:36:09. > :36:13.world. What is it protecting us against? It is the ultimate
:36:13. > :36:20.guarantor of four sovereignty and independence. It allows us a
:36:21. > :36:30.retaliated a cat -- it allows us to retaliate if the United Kingdom
:36:30. > :36:36.were attacked. If there was an attack by terrorists, and dirty
:36:36. > :36:40.bomb, we would not use it then? are speaking about a capability, if
:36:40. > :36:44.we were to build this new generation of submarines, we would
:36:44. > :36:50.be speaking about a capability that would have a life of another 60
:36:50. > :36:56.years. You and I cannot know which countries will have nuclear weapons
:36:56. > :37:01.over that period. There is a real danger that if Iran goes nuclear it
:37:01. > :37:06.will provoke an arms race in the Middle East. We should not take
:37:06. > :37:16.risks with the security of Britain. If you get your way, 80 strident,
:37:16. > :37:20.
:37:20. > :37:22.correct? That is the most efficient way to maintain our deterrent.
:37:22. > :37:26.is approaching 1:00pm. You are watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:26. > :37:29.Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be looking at the week ahead
:37:29. > :37:31.with our political panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics across
:37:31. > :37:35.the UK. Good afternoon. We know they are used in military conflict
:37:35. > :37:42.but companies in London are now offering drones for hire in the
:37:42. > :37:48.city. Joining us this week, the Conservative MP Bob Stewart, and
:37:48. > :37:53.Heidi Alexander. Philip Hammond has said he wants to see the number of
:37:53. > :37:58.military reservists increase. Are the inadequate substitute for the
:37:58. > :38:04.real thing? Not as things stand at the moment. But as things are
:38:04. > :38:09.planned, let's hope they are. From my point review, we're going to
:38:09. > :38:19.have a future army of 82,000 and we will have another 30 thousands
:38:19. > :38:24.reservists. -- 30,000. He cannot get them on the cheap. They have
:38:24. > :38:32.got to have the resources allocated to them to train and sustain their
:38:32. > :38:39.efficiency. The resources are not there? The Ministry of Defence
:38:39. > :38:46.assures us that they will get those resources. I think the jury is out
:38:46. > :38:51.on that from my point of view. I do not want the army or the RAF cut.
:38:51. > :38:57.We do not want to see the armed forces cut. We want the best we can,
:38:57. > :39:01.but one way of trying to do it is to use more reservists. Is there
:39:02. > :39:06.any issue, about companies, particularly at this time of
:39:06. > :39:11.difficult economic times, is there an issue with companies losing
:39:11. > :39:17.reservists on their staff when they go to do their service? I think it
:39:17. > :39:22.can be a problem. It is not just about deployment. Reservists also
:39:22. > :39:26.need to have the appropriate training. What the Secretary of
:39:26. > :39:33.State for Defence said this week, but he was not clear, he said there
:39:33. > :39:36.should be some incentives for employers. I think people in the
:39:36. > :39:42.reserve force should that be discriminated against in terms of
:39:42. > :39:46.getting a job and their career progression. The Government needs
:39:46. > :39:52.to be clear about exactly what it means in terms of support for
:39:52. > :39:56.employers. I have heard of bad practice among some large employers.
:39:56. > :40:03.That is not even speaking about small employers. The Government
:40:03. > :40:06.needs to think of its approach about this. This week, the cost of
:40:06. > :40:16.getting around London got more expensive as the Mayor of London
:40:16. > :40:17.
:40:17. > :40:18.announced that he was raising fares on trains, buses and bikes.
:40:19. > :40:24.Next year, up bus fares will go up and the cost of the bike hire
:40:24. > :40:29.scheme will double, an announcement which has provoked anger. That is
:40:29. > :40:36.too much. You only use it for half an hour each day and you pay for
:40:36. > :40:42.about �45 for the year. Doubling it does not make sense. This is saving
:40:42. > :40:49.money in terms of people avoiding the tube. In 2013, on average,
:40:49. > :40:56.fares will go up by 4.2 %. It would have been higher, but the
:40:56. > :41:03.government contributed �90 million. A weekly travel card will go up to
:41:03. > :41:10.�43.60. The services OK, but it is not improving. Again and see what
:41:10. > :41:13.the increases for. It is ridiculous. It is expensive enough just now.
:41:13. > :41:20.The public transport increases will hit the lowest-paid families
:41:20. > :41:23.hardest. People who are trying to travel to work to earn a living.
:41:23. > :41:29.the Transport For London board meeting, the Mayor of London
:41:29. > :41:34.explained the thinking behind the rises. We have to invest in our
:41:34. > :41:39.transport infrastructure. There is also expected to be an announcement
:41:39. > :41:43.on roads before Christmas. It is not good news, but under the
:41:43. > :41:47.circumstances, with the investment going on and the improvements we
:41:47. > :41:53.must make to cope with the population increase, it is not
:41:53. > :41:57.unreasonable. But with the cost of bike hire going up to �2 and the
:41:57. > :42:02.annual charge to �90, some are questioning whether the sponsorship
:42:02. > :42:08.deal is good value for money. has been a good deal for cyclists
:42:08. > :42:11.in London but we need more investment in cycling in London.
:42:11. > :42:15.London assembly members say that fares should not have been
:42:16. > :42:20.increased by so much. Critics have accused the mayor of trying to be a
:42:20. > :42:30.bad news by announcing the rises on the day that President Obama won
:42:30. > :42:31.
:42:31. > :42:37.Earlier I asked Isabel Dedring why Londoners were being hit by fare
:42:37. > :42:41.rises again. The mayor has been able to put fares up by a smaller
:42:41. > :42:46.amount he originally had in the plan and that is because we have
:42:46. > :42:51.got 96 million from the government to hold fares down so that is great
:42:51. > :42:56.news. Anyone who followed the recent mayoral campaign, Boris was
:42:56. > :43:01.clearly campaigning on a platform of Investment and Boris feels very
:43:01. > :43:06.strongly he has to honour that commitment he made to Londoners. He
:43:06. > :43:11.is investing in things like up grading the Duke, increasing
:43:11. > :43:17.capacity, investing in cycle safety and those things take funding.
:43:17. > :43:22.it fair for Londoners to be paying for future investment? That is what
:43:22. > :43:25.governments should be doing, isn't it? Fund balance, when you look at
:43:25. > :43:30.the new things we are investing in, a big chunk comes from the
:43:30. > :43:34.government directly and we have spent effort looking at our own
:43:34. > :43:39.business. When I look at things we will be including in the business
:43:39. > :43:42.plan before the end of the year, a lot of those have been funded from
:43:42. > :43:47.efficiencies within the business. We are committed to keeping fares
:43:47. > :43:51.as low as possible, but we have to look at the investments we want to
:43:52. > :44:01.make. Why are Londoners not just paying for the service they are
:44:01. > :44:06.getting now? Where are they paying for a promise of tomorrow? Broadly
:44:06. > :44:09.speaking, we are similar to a lot of other countries. Ideally that
:44:09. > :44:15.balance would be different, but it is usually the way it is here in
:44:15. > :44:21.London. We know it affect staff at city hall - people have been
:44:21. > :44:27.enduring pay freezes, their income has been frozen or coming down, why
:44:27. > :44:32.aren't first frozen? A as I say, we have secured the money from
:44:32. > :44:37.government to reduce the rise by as much as possible. At the same time
:44:37. > :44:41.people are saying the Northern Line is crowded, I can't get on in the
:44:41. > :44:45.morning, people talk about cycle safety - how can we improve the
:44:45. > :44:50.safety of cyclists? These are things that need to be funded and
:44:50. > :44:56.we need to try to find the right balance point. In the campaign for
:44:56. > :45:01.mayor spoke about maintaining fares in order to invest in the network.
:45:01. > :45:07.What he didn't talk a bout of course was the rising cost or the
:45:07. > :45:12.likely rising cost of using London's bike hire scheme. We see
:45:12. > :45:17.you have doubled the fees for that. How could you do that? The scheme
:45:17. > :45:27.has been much more successful than we could ever have hoped so we are
:45:27. > :45:35.
:45:35. > :45:39.seeing growth, both in members but What you can't have is an unfair
:45:39. > :45:42.situation where cycle hire is being given more funding went other modes
:45:42. > :45:47.of transport when other people are paying their fair share. Her how
:45:47. > :45:53.much did it lose last year? We want to put it on a stable financial
:45:53. > :45:58.footing. How much public subsidy was there? I think you have got
:45:58. > :46:05.those figures, and as we expand you don't want something that is
:46:05. > :46:10.significantly loss-making. Is it about 9-10 million? We are
:46:10. > :46:14.expanding the scheme through phase three. As the me have got at the
:46:14. > :46:19.moment, I think about 10 million is the figure - why are you asking
:46:19. > :46:24.Londoners to pay more and why not the sponsors, Barclays, who are
:46:24. > :46:28.only paying less than a quarter of the cost of this being? When we put
:46:28. > :46:35.the sponsorship deal out to tender, Barclay's put the most money on
:46:35. > :46:39.this table so we were pleased with that. If we can find somebody else
:46:39. > :46:46.who can put more money on the table, we will be more than happy to sign
:46:46. > :46:51.them up. Do you agree that is not enough? And now you're asking
:46:51. > :46:57.Londoners to pay considerably more. The total sponsorship package is
:46:57. > :47:03.�50 million. You know that year by year under �5 million the first
:47:03. > :47:06.year, say. What is significant is what the total package is from
:47:06. > :47:15.Barclays, �50 million over the term of the deal and that is the best
:47:15. > :47:24.deal we had on offer at the time. Surely it is significant what
:47:24. > :47:33.Barclays paid last year, isn't it? In to is that local -- total
:47:33. > :47:38.package of course. Cycle hire are getting a fair share format mode
:47:38. > :47:44.and that will enable us to expand that scheme. Where you rule out any
:47:44. > :47:48.further hikes in the bike hire scheme in coming years? This was a
:47:48. > :47:53.one-off, not part of the annual fairs deal, we have announced it
:47:53. > :47:58.together but we will keep it under review. Obviously we want the
:47:58. > :48:02.scheme to keep expanding and if that affects fares we will keep
:48:02. > :48:07.that under review. People are e- mailing me every day to say they
:48:07. > :48:14.want more docking areas in London. We want to get the balance right,
:48:14. > :48:21.the same as we do on every other mode. Not much choice here, really?
:48:21. > :48:25.This has got to happen. I think on your footage, Peter said this is
:48:25. > :48:30.not good news. I think it is awful news for people travelling in
:48:30. > :48:34.London. What Ken Livingstone said when he stood for mayor, of course
:48:34. > :48:41.we had the big debate around the mayoral election about this, that
:48:41. > :48:46.he looked at the finances and the operating surplus that existed...
:48:46. > :48:52.He did say that and the voters decided. No are they are being hit
:48:52. > :48:56.with massive fare increases. Boris Johnson has been very consistent on
:48:56. > :49:02.art presumably, and the voters have said that is fine. That is the
:49:02. > :49:06.place we have to be because of the financial situation. He has hit
:49:06. > :49:13.London has very hard in their pockets next year on the Duke, on
:49:13. > :49:17.the buses, and on the bike scheme. This is the scheme that he takes
:49:17. > :49:22.great pride in and it was more about getting more people out of
:49:22. > :49:27.their cars onto bicycles and London and yet we are seeing that price
:49:27. > :49:37.going up. It is not at all clear whether there is any clarity around
:49:37. > :49:38.
:49:38. > :49:43.the deal done in the first place with Barclays. Let me bring you
:49:44. > :49:50.into this - how are you viewing these fare increases? With anger
:49:50. > :49:56.because my constituency will be really quite hard hit by this high
:49:56. > :50:00.of 4% or whatever. What should have happened? What I say it is anger
:50:00. > :50:05.from my point of view that it has had to happen. I accept it, but I
:50:05. > :50:10.would prefer central government to give more funding. There has been
:50:10. > :50:16.some funding, otherwise it would be much more. If they were saying 4.7,
:50:16. > :50:20.it would be up much further. I am angry because my constituents are
:50:20. > :50:23.having to pay this extra money to get into London. The reason why
:50:23. > :50:29.they live out there, because it is meant to be cheaper to live out
:50:29. > :50:33.there but they lose that because of such big fare rises. You are being
:50:33. > :50:39.asked to pay more but the service is not getting any better so
:50:39. > :50:42.massive overcrowding on the network. Let's move on. The military is used
:50:42. > :50:52.have droned on manned flying devices has become one of the most
:50:52. > :50:54.
:50:54. > :51:01.controversial ingredients of the war in Afghanistan.
:51:01. > :51:04.The unmanned aerial vehicle, commonly called the drone. Military
:51:04. > :51:10.technology refined in Afghanistan, now they're coming home and could
:51:10. > :51:14.eventually be as normal over our skies as a helicopter. While abroad
:51:14. > :51:17.they could be used to drop bombs, but over here they are likely to be
:51:17. > :51:24.armed with nothing more than a camera. Not everybody likes the
:51:24. > :51:32.idea. London already has so much CCTV, we are the most surveyed
:51:32. > :51:36.people in of the Earth. If you add these, we finally become some Big
:51:36. > :51:43.Brother surveillance state. I think the word drone really engenders
:51:43. > :51:51.this distrust in the media. We use these vehicles, basically flying
:51:51. > :51:55.cameras. Sky-Futures is a start-up company. Rom from just outside
:51:55. > :52:02.London, they rent out their equipment for what they say are
:52:02. > :52:06.entirely benign uses. Wind turbines inspection, 3D mapping, and in the
:52:06. > :52:10.future they say there are a lot of ways in which they could work of
:52:10. > :52:16.the local authorities. A lot of buildings lose heat through the
:52:16. > :52:20.roof. If they are very inefficient, it is very simply done with the
:52:20. > :52:24.thermal camera at a fraction of the cost of the money you while losing
:52:24. > :52:29.in the first place. We could see drones playing a key role in
:52:29. > :52:35.disaster relief, say for example if the Thames flooded. If you want to
:52:35. > :52:40.find out what is going on in this area, you would decide on a flight
:52:40. > :52:47.path for this. The University of Southampton worked on mapping
:52:47. > :52:50.systems like the locations of emergency services and even people
:52:50. > :52:55.on Twitter. They say that would give a more accurate picture of
:52:55. > :53:00.what is going on on the ground, accessible even from an iPad.
:53:00. > :53:04.are already being used by emergency responders across the country and
:53:04. > :53:08.definitely in London we can see that happening. It is it an
:53:08. > :53:13.opportunity the London Emergency services want to take up? London
:53:13. > :53:17.Fire Brigade said they had never used drones but do have access to
:53:17. > :53:21.other forces equipment, should they want to. The Metropolitan Police
:53:21. > :53:28.were less open, saying they could neither confirm nor deny any
:53:28. > :53:33.information about them. Drone companies themselves were more open
:53:33. > :53:37.- we spoke to two who said they had been in talks with the Met about
:53:37. > :53:43.the technology. Skydroid said they had worked with the Met Police,
:53:44. > :53:49.some project. These are pictures of the 2008 Olympic handover ceremony.
:53:49. > :53:58.However, Sunday Politics have been told that the Metropolitan Police
:53:59. > :54:08.said a lack of funding have slowed down the take up.
:54:09. > :54:09.
:54:09. > :54:15.I am joined by the director of the Campaign Group, big brother watch,
:54:15. > :54:21.Nick Pickles. What we have seen in the film are these farm land aerial
:54:21. > :54:25.systems, with small devices. The concern people should be worried
:54:25. > :54:29.about his military companies flying the same equipment they have in
:54:29. > :54:35.Afghanistan - fixed-wing much larger systems - and will we be
:54:35. > :54:41.seeing those devices repurchased for civilian use? What would the
:54:41. > :54:46.problem be? We already know of BAe Systems working with Kent police on
:54:46. > :54:52.a project that has had very little transparency. Specifically looking
:54:52. > :55:01.at drone use. What's were they used for? This is what we have been
:55:01. > :55:06.asking. What would be unacceptable in how they are using them? Some of
:55:06. > :55:11.these larger military drones can be in the air for three days on a
:55:11. > :55:18.fixed flight path with someone at a desk controlling what they do. We
:55:18. > :55:22.as citizens have no idea. Why is that different from CCTV? That is
:55:22. > :55:27.it that for the point. If you walk down the street and you see a
:55:27. > :55:32.camera, you are legally entitled to be told he was operating it and why.
:55:32. > :55:38.With the drone, you have no idea what is going on. If you are under
:55:38. > :55:44.suspicion of a crime, there please have the right to survey you.
:55:44. > :55:48.Otherwise they don't have that right. He have experience of drones
:55:48. > :55:52.- assess this practical application. Should we not have worries about
:55:52. > :55:57.consent? The have got to be controlled properly, but it will
:55:57. > :56:03.happen. In 1978 I was an intelligent officer in the London
:56:03. > :56:10.area. I used cameras like this, much better actually. They are not
:56:10. > :56:14.very clear. The ones we had in 1978 you can identify from 1000 ft who
:56:14. > :56:21.was in the crowd. When it is a riot situation, this is important. They
:56:21. > :56:26.could possibly be used, a remotely piloted vehicle, to check the heat
:56:26. > :56:36.coming off the top of the roof for marijuana of growth. We do have any
:56:36. > :56:36.
:56:36. > :56:40.problem with police using them in I would like to see them controlled
:56:40. > :56:47.by someone I said the police, so licence would have to be obtained
:56:47. > :56:54.for that purpose. I think that is acceptable. The criteria is, if it
:56:54. > :57:01.helps to save lives, then we should use it. The EU agree? I think it is
:57:01. > :57:05.like something from a science- fiction novel. In principle, I
:57:05. > :57:10.would not say and necessarily object to them, however, the debate
:57:10. > :57:16.needs to be had about exactly what these drones would be used for, and
:57:16. > :57:20.when they would be used. For the Metropolitan Police to say they can
:57:20. > :57:25.neither confirm nor deny we did they are using them, that seems to
:57:25. > :57:33.be a ridiculous situation. If the police want to use them, they
:57:33. > :57:37.should be open about it and we should have a debate. Agreed. Just
:57:37. > :57:42.say that we are looking at them, that is all we need to do. We have
:57:42. > :57:51.run out of time on this one, but we had started the debate and we can
:57:51. > :57:58.return. Now for a round-up of the political news.
:57:58. > :58:02.Could it be it no more Henry Moore in Tower Hamlets? The sale of this
:58:02. > :58:09.statue has been sanctioned despite opposition from fellow councillors,
:58:09. > :58:14.the local MP, Danny Boyle and Boris Johnson. The sale could raise �20
:58:14. > :58:19.million for the council. On Wednesday, the Deputy Prime
:58:19. > :58:23.Minister was questioned on the living wage. He tells us that he
:58:23. > :58:28.supports the a living wage and the increase announced on Monday. Can
:58:28. > :58:34.he tell us how many Lib Dem councils paid a living wage?
:58:34. > :58:40.Olympic Stadium may not open until 2016. The London assembly learnt
:58:40. > :58:50.this this week. The race for a successful 10 in G stadium has
:58:50. > :58:52.
:58:52. > :58:58.still been up -- is still undecided. Recession-hit empty businesses are
:58:58. > :59:04.being targeted by squatters. Bob Stewart, never mind Liberal
:59:04. > :59:09.Democrat councils, should you councillor in Bromley not be paying
:59:09. > :59:13.a living wage? If they could, but they are trying to keep the price
:59:13. > :59:18.down because they have a responsibility for looking after
:59:18. > :59:25.every one that lives in Bromley. The answer is yes, in principle,
:59:25. > :59:31.but in practice, when they can, they should. More and financial
:59:31. > :59:35.difficulties faced by councils. Is it fair enough to flog off a Henry
:59:35. > :59:41.Moore if you are in dire financial straits? The reality is that
:59:41. > :59:47.councils in London have been hit hard by government cuts. As I
:59:47. > :59:52.understand it, the sculpture was up in Yorkshire for the last 15 years.
:59:52. > :59:58.People in Tower Hamlets have not seen it. What do you think about
:59:58. > :00:01.the fuss that has been made with this. I think agree. On the one
:00:01. > :00:10.hand you want to liberate something that people do not seem to care
:00:10. > :00:14.about, but on the other hand, it is a gift, so you have this dilemma.
:00:14. > :00:19.Some people would say it is appalling, some people would say it
:00:19. > :00:28.was right. I think it is very difficult. We sat, it is back to
:00:28. > :00:30.you, Andrew. -- with that. In a moment, we will look ahead to the
:00:31. > :00:36.big stories that will dominate politics next week with our
:00:36. > :00:41.political panel, but first the news with Nick Owen.
:00:41. > :00:44.Good afternoon. The BBC's former director-general, George Entwistle,
:00:44. > :00:52.resigned and was not forced out of his job, according to the chairman
:00:52. > :00:55.of the BBC Trust, Lord Patten. He has defended his own role in the
:00:55. > :00:57.corporation's crisis which saw Mr Entwistle quit last night following
:00:57. > :01:00.a Newsnight broadcast which alleged a senior Conservative politician
:01:00. > :01:04.from the Thatcher era was involved in child abuse, a claim which
:01:04. > :01:07.proved to be unfounded. Lord Pattern says he needs to remain in
:01:07. > :01:13.his post as the BBC seeks to restore public trust in the
:01:13. > :01:18.corporation's journalism, as Nick Higham reports.
:01:18. > :01:23.There is not a bloodbath yet, but this morning's newspaper headlines
:01:23. > :01:28.were dreadful for the BBC and the man who helped the top job for just
:01:28. > :01:33.54 days. He was ridiculed as out of his dead and last night he resigned,
:01:33. > :01:37.saying it was the honourable thing to do. The wholly exceptional
:01:37. > :01:43.events of the past few weeks have led me to conclude that the BBC
:01:43. > :01:46.should appoint a brand new leader. What finally puts paid to George
:01:47. > :01:51.Entwistle, admitting he had not known in advance about the
:01:51. > :01:57.inaccuracy Newsnight film, and only learnt it was wrong and hours after
:01:57. > :02:04.it was reported elsewhere. This morning, the chair of the BBC Trust
:02:04. > :02:11.was trying to limit the damage. have to make sure that the BBC has
:02:11. > :02:16.a grip. Just put is horrendous crisis on one side for a moment.
:02:16. > :02:22.The BBC has been one of the most respected national institutions.
:02:22. > :02:27.Some commentators say that the chairman's job may be on the line.
:02:27. > :02:33.If he manages to fix this in weeks, and the ship is stabilised, I
:02:33. > :02:38.cannot see why his position would not be secure. But if there is any
:02:38. > :02:46.sense of prevarication, he has had it. The man temporarily in charge
:02:46. > :02:51.is Tim Davie, the head of radio. In the BBC's worst journalism crisis,
:02:51. > :02:53.a man from I Gerd Muller -- a man from a marketing background to sort
:02:53. > :02:55.out the crisis. Let's speak to our correspondent,
:02:55. > :02:58.who is at the BBC's New Broadcasting House in Central
:02:58. > :03:01.London. Ben, we have seen the acting director-general, Tim Davie,
:03:01. > :03:04.arriving for work today. What is the first thing he is going to have
:03:04. > :03:08.to deal with? Good afternoon. He may have to take
:03:08. > :03:11.some pretty big decision straightaway. After the Newsnight
:03:11. > :03:18.broadcast when they mistakenly implied that his senior Tory
:03:18. > :03:23.politician had been in -- had been involved in child abuse, at George
:03:23. > :03:29.Entwistle asked for a reporter on that broadcast. What lawyers were
:03:29. > :03:34.consulted, what questions were asked before it was broadcast. That
:03:34. > :03:38.report is due today. If it shows that people did not do their jobs
:03:38. > :03:43.properly, Tim Davie will be the person to decide what if any
:03:43. > :03:49.disciplinary action should be taken. We also understand he will be
:03:49. > :03:54.speaking to Lord Patten about the future of Newsnight as a programme.
:03:54. > :03:58.Downing Street says this is a serious moment for the BBC. They do
:03:58. > :04:07.not think it is an existential crisis but they say that the BBC
:04:07. > :04:10.needs to show it. -- needs to show grip.
:04:10. > :04:13.People across Britain fell silent at 11 o'clock this morning to
:04:13. > :04:16.remember the servicemen and women who have given their lives in war.
:04:16. > :04:18.Among other events, a service and parade have also been held by
:04:18. > :04:23.British troops in southern Afghanistan. Daniella Relph reports.
:04:23. > :04:28.The Queen at the Cenotaph, leading the remembrance. As thousands lined
:04:28. > :04:38.white hall, at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month there
:04:38. > :04:59.
:04:59. > :05:05.Around the UK, the country Pause to Remember. -- paused to remember. In
:05:05. > :05:10.Afghanistan at the British base should -- at the British base at
:05:10. > :05:14.Lashkar Gah, they remembered. For the Queen, there was added
:05:14. > :05:19.poignancy, knowing that her grandson Prince Harry is currently
:05:19. > :05:24.serving in Afghanistan. From political leaders to
:05:24. > :05:30.representatives of the Commonwealth, it is a day of reflection. For the
:05:31. > :05:35.veterans, the march past remains a moment of immense pride. As another
:05:35. > :05:43.year passes, this is their chance to honour the sacrifice of fathers
:05:43. > :05:49.and to ensure the memory of that sacrifice never fades.
:05:49. > :05:54.That is all the news for now. There will be more here on BBC 1 at 6
:05:54. > :05:58.o'clock. Now back to Andrew. Thank you, Nick. So how much worse
:05:58. > :06:01.can it get for the BBC? And what will happen to those investigations
:06:01. > :06:11.into child abuse claims? Those are the big questions for The Week
:06:11. > :06:15.
:06:15. > :06:20.10 Downing Street has issued a statement coming to the aid of the
:06:20. > :06:26.BBC, saying it does not believe it is facing an existential crisis.
:06:26. > :06:33.What do you make of that? They also say that the BBC needs to get a
:06:33. > :06:38.grip. My first thought was, they should know. As an outsider, this
:06:38. > :06:42.does not feel such a serious crisis as the David Kelly affair. But been
:06:42. > :06:48.in this building this morning, I detect that for people that work
:06:48. > :06:54.for the BBC, it feels like a great crisis. There is an acknowledgement
:06:54. > :06:59.that so many things have seriously gone wrong. We hear the call that
:06:59. > :07:03.what the BBC needs is a period of stability after the instability.
:07:03. > :07:08.The chairman was talking this morning about the need for radical
:07:08. > :07:12.restructuring. There are two reports to come out today. There is
:07:12. > :07:18.speculation of a bloodbath among senior managers. That is not
:07:18. > :07:24.stability. Yes, I'm personally and convinced that Lord Patten can
:07:24. > :07:31.remain in his job. I am not even convinced that the BBC Trust can
:07:31. > :07:37.survive in the long term. When the BBC charter is renewed in 2016, the
:07:37. > :07:47.corporation may be held to account by Ofcom. What is there to gain
:07:47. > :07:48.
:07:48. > :07:55.from Lord Patten resigning? thought that predicted resignations
:07:56. > :08:03.were a problem after the Jimmy Savile story. What happened there
:08:03. > :08:06.was inexcusable. In his series of interviews this morning, Lord
:08:06. > :08:13.Patten seemed to be immune from criticism because he was saying
:08:13. > :08:16.that the only people that criticise him is Rupert Murdoch. There are
:08:16. > :08:23.questions in the Observer and the Independent On Sunday, it is a real
:08:24. > :08:28.problem. Downing Street have to be really careful. They must question
:08:28. > :08:33.the independence of the BBC. You asked Harriet Harman if Chris
:08:33. > :08:39.Patten should go. She did not want to go down that line. She said it
:08:39. > :08:42.would be wrong to pull everything up at the Ritz. If there is a
:08:42. > :08:48.cross-party consensus that Chris Patten should not go, he will
:08:48. > :08:53.probably stay. It becomes for the foreseeable future a story without
:08:53. > :08:58.an end. We may get one of the reports on Newsnight to date, and
:08:58. > :09:03.then, one week later are 10 days, they'd is another report on
:09:03. > :09:10.Newsnight coming out. You kind of field the drumbeat for Newsnight's
:09:10. > :09:15.demise. I feel that it is probably a discredited brand. Serious
:09:15. > :09:20.questions are being asked. Will it last until Christmas? Maybe not
:09:21. > :09:27.even for the next few days. But what were they doing sub-contract
:09:27. > :09:34.in pieces of important investigation to the side fought, -
:09:34. > :09:39.- it to this company, at the Bureau of Investigation. Their team is
:09:39. > :09:44.remarkably small, it is not comparable to a similar team on the
:09:44. > :09:49.Sunday Times. This happened because the managers have reduced
:09:49. > :09:54.themselves, anyone involved in Jimmy Savile. People like Helen
:09:54. > :10:01.Boaden are not around to make these judgments. You had the Controller
:10:01. > :10:05.of Radio 5 Live deciding whether to put out an investigation. Has what
:10:05. > :10:13.has happened with Lord McAlpine, the claims of the Tory paedophile
:10:13. > :10:20.ring without any Tories in it, will the wider claims for an inquiry
:10:20. > :10:26.into child abuse just whether now? The Prime Minister has set up two
:10:26. > :10:33.inquiries on the basis of testimony which has not proved to be true.
:10:33. > :10:43.did seem to be quite tasty. Politicians have made insinuations
:10:43. > :10:45.
:10:45. > :10:51.about Lord McAlpine, indirectly. turned out that the witness on whom
:10:51. > :10:55.Newsnight relied, it turned out he was unreliable. I do not agree with
:10:55. > :11:01.David Mellor, who called him a weir door and the programme earlier this
:11:01. > :11:07.morning. He has been proven to be an unreliable witness several times,
:11:07. > :11:11.but he has also suffered the most terrible child abuse. I think there
:11:11. > :11:18.is a difference between being and reliable and been described as a
:11:18. > :11:22.weirdo. That would really jarred with me. The man does not deserve a
:11:22. > :11:27.character assassination at this point. He made a mistake but we
:11:27. > :11:32.cannot imagine what he has been through. It was grossly
:11:32. > :11:37.inappropriate. I think the BBC has a duty of care to this man, who is
:11:37. > :11:41.clearly vulnerable. You are saying that he is an unreliable witness
:11:41. > :11:44.but Newsnight looked at him in the past and decided it would not be
:11:44. > :11:49.appropriate to proceed with the programme on the basis of what he
:11:49. > :11:56.was saying. The more we find out about the Newsnight story on Lord
:11:56. > :12:00.McAlpine, the worse it gets. Two elections this week, the police and
:12:00. > :12:07.Crown Commissioners election Andy Kirk a by-election. What is more
:12:07. > :12:11.important? The Police elections are more important, but the turnout
:12:11. > :12:18.will be feeble. The interesting thing about Kirkby that was caused
:12:18. > :12:23.by Louise Mensch walking away from Parliament, it occurs at the same
:12:23. > :12:29.time as Nadine Dorries a' trip to Australia. Both those incidents
:12:29. > :12:37.debase Parliament. We have some pictures of Nadine Dorries. I am
:12:37. > :12:42.not sure that it is a real jungle. The thread that brings together the
:12:43. > :12:46.police elections and Nadine Dorries is Oliver Letwin. It was his
:12:46. > :12:51.recognition to the Conservative Party that meant Nadine Dorries was
:12:51. > :12:58.the candidate. It was Oliver Letwin's idea to have these elected
:12:58. > :13:04.police commissioners. He is an old Etonian, isn't he? I thought the
:13:04. > :13:08.Tories had given up on Corby. But I understand that David Cameron has
:13:08. > :13:13.ordered all of his MPs to get out there on Thursday, as had Ed
:13:13. > :13:20.Miliband. At the very least there will be a high turnout of
:13:20. > :13:25.politicians. That is trying not to come third! If Labour cannot win in
:13:25. > :13:31.Corby where the Conservatives only had a majority of 1,900, they are
:13:31. > :13:36.in trouble. The commissioner elections are indicative of this
:13:36. > :13:40.government. It has some good ideas, but no commitment to follow through
:13:40. > :13:44.and implementation. You will have a series of elections with very low
:13:44. > :13:52.turnout and the Office of police commissioner will be worth very
:13:52. > :13:55.little. Nadine Dorries, she is on tonight, and his series on ITV. Is
:13:55. > :14:00.this the end of her political career are the start of a brand new
:14:01. > :14:07.career, she becomes a household name? Her political career was
:14:07. > :14:12.going nowhere. What concerns me about his says that hurts because,
:14:12. > :14:18.abortion time limits, is really important. She has been brave on it,
:14:18. > :14:22.but beefier for me is that going on natural will undermine her cause.
:14:23. > :14:25.There is a suggestion that she will join UKIP. I do not think that will
:14:25. > :14:30.do anything for their sense of grandeur.
:14:30. > :14:32.That is all for today. I'll be back with more Daily Politics on BBC Two