:00:43. > :00:46.Good morning. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The Government announces
:00:46. > :00:53.difficult new tests for beef products, but are they shutting the
:00:53. > :00:59.stable door after... We will ask the environment secretary and his
:00:59. > :01:03.shadow and bring you the latest on the horsemeat scandal. After Chris
:01:03. > :01:08.Huhne's disgrace, the coalition are in a fight to the death over his
:01:08. > :01:13.vacant seat. We will ask Ed Davey if it is a by-election his party
:01:13. > :01:18.can afford to lose. After the horrors of Mid Staffordshire
:01:18. > :01:25.Hospital, can the NHS really be described as the envy of the world?
:01:25. > :01:31.Karol Sikora and Nicola Horlick go head-to-head. In London, the mayor
:01:31. > :01:41.is facing his most challenging budget round so far. He will be
:01:41. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:50.cutting council tax but also All that and a panel offering pure
:01:50. > :02:00.and unadulterated political insight. It is more succulent than the final
:02:00. > :02:03.
:02:03. > :02:07.Nick Watt, Iain Martin, Miranda Green. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt
:02:07. > :02:11.was on the BBC speaking about the government's plans on social care.
:02:11. > :02:14.He was asked how they plan to pay for it. Let me make this point,
:02:14. > :02:22.because there has been some speculation in the papers about
:02:22. > :02:27.inheritance tax. The point of what we're doing is to protect people's
:02:27. > :02:31.inheritance. The worst thing that can happen is the most vulnerable
:02:31. > :02:38.moment in your life, you lose the thing that you work hard for, that
:02:38. > :02:41.you save for, your own home. We're trying to be one of the first
:02:41. > :02:51.countries in the world that create a system where people do not have
:02:51. > :02:55.
:02:56. > :03:02.You spoke about a massive increase in the inheritance threshold, note
:03:02. > :03:06.they are using it as a tax revenue raiser. It is incredible, they are
:03:06. > :03:10.long way from the pledge that George Osborne used to see off
:03:10. > :03:15.Gordon Brown. It shows that politics is becoming more about the
:03:15. > :03:19.concerns of the elderly as the country ages. Interesting, it is a
:03:19. > :03:24.policy they did not speak about and they have had to find the money for
:03:24. > :03:27.it and go back on what they promised. If you can forget about
:03:27. > :03:31.the pre-election period this looks quite good, and obviously there are
:03:32. > :03:37.two things you need to forget about, the pledge to raise inheritance tax
:03:37. > :03:41.and you have to forget about what they said before the election, that
:03:41. > :03:46.imposing a cap would be a bad thing. If you forget that, it looks quite
:03:46. > :03:50.good, because Jeremy Hunt is saying they want to fully fund the scheme.
:03:50. > :03:53.The limit is quite a lot of money, but what he was saying this morning
:03:53. > :03:57.is that would increase the chances of people being able to take out
:03:57. > :04:01.insurance, he wants to change the culture so people are not just
:04:01. > :04:08.taking out pensions, also insurance for long-term care. This will make
:04:08. > :04:15.that easier. Just forget the period before 2010. So what has changed
:04:15. > :04:18.because they are in government. Exactly, this is a measure of how
:04:18. > :04:27.serious austerity was. Lots of measures were too difficult to
:04:27. > :04:30.tackle, they need to be tackled now. It is a scandal that has shone a
:04:30. > :04:36.light on what we eat and how it gets to a plate. In the case of
:04:36. > :04:42.some meat product, the routes include Holland, Ireland, Romania
:04:42. > :04:46.and France before reaching British supermarkets. We will find out if
:04:46. > :04:51.the Government is getting a grip on the scandal, but here is a reminder
:04:51. > :04:56.of how it unfolded. Food inspectors found burgers containing not just
:04:56. > :05:04.before a horse. Millions of workers were taken off the shelves of
:05:04. > :05:14.supermarkets, and this week, some lasagne sold as beef were found to
:05:14. > :05:14.
:05:14. > :05:19.contain 100% or so. -- 100% horsemeat. A French food supplier
:05:19. > :05:23.is in the firing line, supplying hundreds of product to UK
:05:23. > :05:28.supermarkets. The police are now speaking to the Food Standards
:05:28. > :05:32.Agency, investigations are under way across Europe. The environment
:05:32. > :05:37.secretary Owen Paterson warned of an international criminal
:05:37. > :05:42.conspiracy. With more tests on the product on the way, we have been
:05:42. > :05:47.told to expect more bad news about what is on the supermarket shelves.
:05:47. > :05:53.In a moment, we will speak to Owen Paterson about that, but first I am
:05:53. > :05:55.joined from Westminster by Mary Creagh, his shadow. You have been
:05:55. > :06:00.scathing in your attacks on the Government for not doing enough,
:06:00. > :06:06.but it turns out Labour stop testing for horsemeat in 2003.
:06:06. > :06:12.Would you like to apologise for that? Food standards of Vohra taste
:06:12. > :06:16.tests for it this on the basis of intelligence, the last Test was
:06:16. > :06:21.done in 2003. Since then, there has not been any intelligence that
:06:21. > :06:27.there has been horsemeat passed off as beef. It was burned in Ireland
:06:27. > :06:35.in the last four weeks. The question is why we have not ordered
:06:36. > :06:40.widespread tests on the 10 million beefburgers withdrawn. Why did you
:06:40. > :06:45.not just do some random checks? food Standards Authority is there
:06:45. > :06:49.to protect human help. government ministers. They do lots
:06:49. > :06:56.of tests on kebab shops, chicken shops, they are the areas of high
:06:56. > :07:03.risk. That is where diseases can get out of the food chain. Massive
:07:03. > :07:12.food poisoning. You stop the testing. You also ended daily
:07:12. > :07:21.government inspection of plants of meat in two pregnant six. Would you
:07:21. > :07:26.like to apologise? We should focus on where we are now. -- in 2006.
:07:26. > :07:33.The budget has been cut over a four year period. The Government had an
:07:33. > :07:37.industry summit yesterday and did not invite in representatives from
:07:37. > :07:47.the major caterers. No tests are being carried out on the burgers
:07:47. > :07:52.sitting in hospitals and schoolss. We should focus on the present day.
:07:52. > :07:56.You have spoken about illegal and carcinogenic horsemeat entering the
:07:56. > :08:01.food chain, you have no evidence, you have no evidence of hospitals
:08:01. > :08:07.and schools. You are scaremongering. I was past evidence over two weeks
:08:07. > :08:14.ago which are raised on the floor of the House of Commons that horses
:08:14. > :08:19.in the UK abattoirs had been exported and entered the human food
:08:19. > :08:24.chain, they tested positively. I have had confirmation that seven
:08:24. > :08:27.horses were exported to France and the Netherlands and at one ended up
:08:28. > :08:30.on a plate in the United Kingdom. You claimed the regulatory
:08:30. > :08:37.framework had broken down catastrophically. How many people
:08:38. > :08:45.have died? The problem with this drug is that it causes a serious
:08:45. > :08:50.adverse blood disorder, that is why it is banned from the food chain.
:08:50. > :08:55.We are learning about this, I have certainly learned about it over the
:08:55. > :09:01.last four weeks. Nobody has died, and horse is safe to eat as long as
:09:01. > :09:04.it is tested. It is not a catastrophe, Mary Creagh. It is
:09:04. > :09:14.scaremongering. It failed catastrophically in that people are
:09:14. > :09:20.now making the choices not to buy processed meat. The Food Standards
:09:20. > :09:26.Agency says do not eat the beef lasagne. The Government cannot
:09:26. > :09:30.contradict itself. You mentioned Owen Paterson, he joins me now.
:09:30. > :09:34.Owen Paterson, what should people do with frozen meat products in
:09:34. > :09:38.their fridges? If those product had been withdrawn from supermarkets,
:09:38. > :09:42.they should go back to the supermarket and claim a refund.
:09:42. > :09:48.What is quite clear about this and the meeting were held yesterday
:09:48. > :09:53.with senior retailers and distributors to correct Mary Creagh,
:09:53. > :09:58.who represent those who distribute to government institutions, we are
:09:58. > :10:01.absolutely clear that it is quite wrong for consumers to go into
:10:01. > :10:08.shops and buy products clearly marked beef to find later it
:10:08. > :10:13.contains horsemeat. What should people do with product they have?
:10:13. > :10:18.You said there was no evidence to we should not eat them, and yet the
:10:18. > :10:21.FSA were advising people not to eat it. Who do we listen to? You listen
:10:21. > :10:26.to the second half of the sentence which has been dropped off the
:10:26. > :10:32.quote, which is that I totally endorse the recommendation that if
:10:32. > :10:37.a product is withdrawn from supermarkets, do not eat it. Take
:10:37. > :10:41.it back to the supermarket and claim a refund. I would entirely
:10:41. > :10:44.endorsed the recommendation of the Food Standards Agency, which was
:10:44. > :10:49.set up by the Labour government to be independent and professional.
:10:49. > :10:53.You told us to accept there will be more bad news. Our supermarket
:10:53. > :10:58.shelves could be awash with contamination. We need to wait and
:10:58. > :11:03.see the results. But it could be. No, let us see what comes out of
:11:03. > :11:08.the testing. There has been no testing for 10 years so you do not
:11:08. > :11:14.know. The FSA quite rightly tests on the basis of intelligence, as
:11:14. > :11:18.Mary Cray said. So you do not know. They test for issues which are a
:11:18. > :11:23.threat to human health. This is an issue of labelling and fraud. This
:11:23. > :11:29.is a conspiracy against the public. It is either a case of gross
:11:30. > :11:33.incompetence, but I have a feeling it is a case of an international
:11:33. > :11:37.criminal conspiracy, and we are determined to get to the bottom of
:11:37. > :11:41.this. To do that, we will need to get to the bottom of it not just in
:11:41. > :11:45.this country, I was in Dublin last week, and this week I will be
:11:45. > :11:50.speaking to counterparts across Europe. Ultimately, this is about
:11:50. > :11:56.the European Union. People could be eating horsemeat are knowingly this
:11:56. > :11:59.lunchtime. That is possible, that is why we are carrying out this
:11:59. > :12:05.unprecedented screening of processed beef products. It looks
:12:05. > :12:08.as if the product is -- the problem is limited to processed beef, and
:12:08. > :12:12.there has been criminal substitution of beef with horse.
:12:12. > :12:17.That is wrong. If people buy a product marked beef, they are
:12:17. > :12:27.absolutely right to expect that. Why not have a moratorium on the
:12:27. > :12:28.
:12:28. > :12:35.improvement in do you? -- meat movement in the EU. That is not
:12:35. > :12:39.possible under the rules of the Common Market. Would you like to?
:12:39. > :12:44.If I find a product is injurious to public health, emphatically, I will
:12:44. > :12:47.take action. As we established yesterday, the food standards are
:12:47. > :12:53.authority, the retailers and distributors are determined to get
:12:53. > :13:00.to the bottom of this. -- food Standards Authority. Giving you are
:13:00. > :13:05.operating in the dark, why not ban meat products from other European
:13:05. > :13:13.countries until the matter is resolved? Our retreat action like
:13:13. > :13:18.that would not be possible. -- actions like that. There was a risk
:13:18. > :13:24.of danger to human health with BSE, but this is an issue of fraud.
:13:24. > :13:28.People are being sold one thing and getting another. At the moment we
:13:28. > :13:33.do not have evidence of threat to human health. People will have
:13:33. > :13:41.heard the phrase for the moment. We should have a moratorium Morag Bain,
:13:41. > :13:45.until you can come on to programmes like this. -- we should have
:13:45. > :13:49.prohibition until you can come on programmes like this. I said there
:13:49. > :13:53.may be more bad news because we do not know how far this incompetence
:13:53. > :13:57.or criminal conspiracy extends. I can assure you that if evidence
:13:57. > :14:02.comes forward of material involved that is a risk to human health, I
:14:02. > :14:07.will take whatever action is necessary. Moratorium? That is
:14:08. > :14:14.allowed within the rules of the EU if there is a threat. This scandal
:14:14. > :14:18.has been brewing, why did the only begin rigorous testing on Thursday?
:14:18. > :14:24.The roar of the authority is to concentrate on material that could
:14:24. > :14:32.be a threat to human health. -- the objective. This issue has risen
:14:32. > :14:38.quite recently, and at the moment it is an issue of fraud. You have
:14:38. > :14:44.said that four of five times. The beef lasagne at was discovered many
:14:44. > :14:49.weeks ago, they delayed reporting it. I spoke to the chief executive
:14:49. > :14:53.of Findus last night and I need to be cautious on this. There is a
:14:53. > :14:59.possibility of legal action. The lesson from Findus, endorsed
:14:59. > :15:03.entirely at the meeting, is the moment a processor or retailer or
:15:03. > :15:09.discovers there might be material which is improper in one of their
:15:09. > :15:15.products, they should notified the FSA immediately, and as sure as
:15:15. > :15:20.rigorous tests are conducted, approved by the FSA, the material
:15:20. > :15:27.should be withdrawn. We will strongly support any producer or
:15:27. > :15:32.retailer or we take that action. You did not call an emergency
:15:32. > :15:35.summit until yesterday. Why were you slow off the mark? We have been
:15:36. > :15:43.working on this all through the week. You write your constituencies
:15:43. > :15:47.on Friday. You could have done that. Why did you not? We respect the
:15:47. > :15:52.arrangements we inherited from the Labour government. We had a meeting
:15:52. > :15:58.with them on Thursday, on Friday, I had further discussions with them,
:15:58. > :16:01.and it was my idea that, given the new evidence, we should hold the
:16:01. > :16:05.meeting yesterday, which was extremely constructive and
:16:05. > :16:10.thoroughly worthwhile. You got a dressing-down from Downing Street.
:16:10. > :16:17.We worked closely with Downing Street, this is exaggerated. The
:16:17. > :16:22.meeting that I called yesterday was entirely my decision. I had a very
:16:22. > :16:29.constructive... Downing Street thought it was too late. We have
:16:29. > :16:32.been working closely with them. Things are happening every day. Can
:16:32. > :16:37.I make it absolutely clear, the meeting yesterday was emphatically
:16:37. > :16:41.my decision. It is not the meeting, it is the time it took. You keep
:16:41. > :16:45.saying emphatically that this could be an international criminal
:16:45. > :16:50.conspiracy. I will repeat the words, an international criminal
:16:50. > :16:57.conspiracy. Why haven't you called in the police? They have already
:16:57. > :17:01.had discussions. The police have told us they are not having an
:17:01. > :17:07.investigation. There has to be activity in this country, they're
:17:08. > :17:12.working with counterparts across Europe. The FSA is also doing that.
:17:12. > :17:15.If it is criminal conspiracy, they should be investigating it. The FSA
:17:15. > :17:20.is working with their counterparts across Europe, encouraging them to
:17:20. > :17:23.work with the legal authorities. You keep on saying there is no
:17:23. > :17:28.health risk, look at what is happening. We are consuming
:17:28. > :17:32.horsemeat unknown, consuming it from Romania, where horse
:17:32. > :17:37.infections are endemic, being processed by a French plan,
:17:37. > :17:44.recently the centre of an E coli outbreak, and yet you can still say
:17:44. > :17:51.that the health is not in any way at risk? I have said we must wait
:17:51. > :17:58.and see the results of the test, YOU mentioned shows the
:17:58. > :18:02.extraordinary international network of this trade. -- but the case.
:18:02. > :18:07.That company has apologised to customers in 16 different countries.
:18:07. > :18:11.The meeting yesterday, I expressed my concern that the whole system of
:18:11. > :18:15.regulation throughout Europe is based on trust. There is a great
:18:15. > :18:21.track that the piece of paper attached, it guarantees the content.
:18:21. > :18:25.I would like to see more testing of material through the process.
:18:25. > :18:30.that company still sending food products to Britain? The only other
:18:30. > :18:38.product I know, they were stopped, that is down to the retailers.
:18:38. > :18:48.could still be sending it? That is down to the retailers, who have
:18:48. > :18:53.
:18:53. > :19:02.ultimate responsibility for the When will processed meat be safe to
:19:02. > :19:07.eat and have what it says on the packet? We are looking at a case of
:19:08. > :19:11.processed beef products, whether either through incompetence or
:19:11. > :19:16.criminal conspiracy beef has been substituted with horse. When can we
:19:16. > :19:22.buy it with total safety and knowledge of what we're eating?
:19:22. > :19:27.will have results at the ends of this -- end of this week. We will
:19:27. > :19:30.be giving the public assurances as we work through the detail. Thank
:19:30. > :19:33.you for joining us this Sunday morning. Now, you will be shocked
:19:33. > :19:38.by this. I hope you are sitting down. The coalition partners are
:19:38. > :19:42.about to start fighting. Yes - it is unprecedented - I know! There's
:19:42. > :19:46.a by-election on the way. It might just get ugly. It has been a week
:19:46. > :19:51.to remember for the Liberal Democrats, but not in a good way.
:19:51. > :19:57.have pleaded guilty today. I have taken responsibility for something
:19:57. > :20:01.which happened ten years ago. The only proper course of action for me
:20:01. > :20:06.is now to resign my Eastleigh seat in Parliament. That will trigger a
:20:06. > :20:13.by-election in Eastleigh, which will see the two coalition parties
:20:13. > :20:17.going head-to-head. That comes in the wake of last month's vote on
:20:17. > :20:23.changes to parliamentary boundaries A policy Nick Clegg once supported,
:20:23. > :20:33.but then abandoned after Tory opposition torpedoed house of Lords
:20:33. > :20:35.
:20:35. > :20:38.reform. Ed Davey - the man who got his job
:20:38. > :20:42.left a year ago. Pressure will grow on Nick Clegg
:20:42. > :20:47.inside his party which could be good news for the Energy Secretary,
:20:47. > :20:54.if rumours of his own leadership ambitions are accurate. And Ed
:20:54. > :21:01.Davey joins me now for the Sunday interview.
:21:01. > :21:05.So, Ed Davey, do you see yourself leading the Lib Dems one day?
:21:05. > :21:09.really supportive of what Nick has been doing. He's the best leader
:21:09. > :21:12.we've had. He'll lead it not just to the next election but the one
:21:12. > :21:15.after that. What is the answer to my question? Listen, I think the
:21:15. > :21:19.Liberal Democrats have got from strength-to-strength over recent
:21:19. > :21:25.years. I think we have gone into Government. We have shown what we
:21:25. > :21:29.can do. I want to be part of that team. I will not feed the rumours
:21:30. > :21:33.some people feed and want to see - I want to concentrate on the real
:21:33. > :21:38.issue. What Nick Clegg has been doing, for example, delivering or
:21:38. > :21:41.policy of income tax cuts for people on low incomes. We have
:21:41. > :21:47.taken two million people out of income tax. That is the real issue
:21:47. > :21:50.we should talk about, not personalities. Let's look at what
:21:50. > :21:59.has happened. Chris Huhne, first Cabinet minister forced from
:21:59. > :22:09.Cabinet. David Laws - the shortest in history because of expenses
:22:09. > :22:09.
:22:09. > :23:09.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 59 seconds
:23:09. > :23:16.He has admitted his guilt, he will face the consequences. We should
:23:16. > :23:22.not forget he made a big contribution to it. Is this a must
:23:22. > :23:28.win for the Lib Dems? I think we can win it. Not only have we held
:23:28. > :23:33.the seat for 20 years, we have a very good record. The campaign will
:23:33. > :23:40.see as focusing on what we have achieved locally and nationally.
:23:40. > :23:50.That is why, against the trend elsewhere, we have taken seats of
:23:50. > :23:55.
:23:55. > :23:59.Every one of the constituency 36 councillors is a Lib Dem. It
:23:59. > :24:04.follows, therefore, not to win would be a damning verdict on Nick
:24:04. > :24:12.Clegg, wouldn't it? I think we are going to win.
:24:12. > :24:16.Not to win would be a damning verdict. We have Mike Thornton. He
:24:16. > :24:20.has lived there 20 years. He is active for the community. Someone
:24:20. > :24:25.like him will be the sort of candidate that people of Eastleigh
:24:25. > :24:34.want to vote for. I know you think you are going to win. I was trying
:24:34. > :24:37.to get you to respond... I think Nick is in a strong position
:24:37. > :24:41.whatever happens. He is showing to our party and the country, if you
:24:41. > :24:47.have a leader like Nick, who sticks with his principals on taking the
:24:47. > :24:52.low-paid out of income tax, you can deliver big tax cuts.
:24:52. > :24:58.The campaign could turn nasty. The Tories are out for revenge because
:24:58. > :25:07.you renegued on your promise to make parliamentary constituencies
:25:07. > :25:11.more equal. We followed taking that decision, followed on from the
:25:11. > :25:16.Conservatives and the House of Lords reform. That was an important
:25:16. > :25:19.policy for us. The statement had a second chaim, where people choose
:25:20. > :25:23.who sets the -- chamber, where people choose who sets the laws for
:25:23. > :25:27.them. It was in the party manifesto. Because they renegued on something
:25:27. > :25:32.which is so important to us and we believe the coalition, we felt we
:25:32. > :25:37.couldn't go ahead... Let's unpick that in some detail. People are
:25:37. > :25:42.right not to trust you, aren't they. Listen to this from Nick Clegg.
:25:42. > :25:49.the broken scales of our democracy ten voters in Glasgow north have
:25:49. > :25:52.the same weight as voters in Manchester Central. These
:25:52. > :25:58.differences are repeated up and down the country. Edinburgh South
:25:58. > :26:08.and Wrexham had fewer than 60,000 voters. West Ham had more than
:26:08. > :26:09.
:26:09. > :26:13.80,000. This unfairness is deeply damaging to our democracy.
:26:13. > :26:18.I presume you agree with every word. The Liberal Democrats have
:26:18. > :26:24.campaigned for fairer votes for as long as I can remember. We want a
:26:24. > :26:28.fairer voting system in the UK. Nick was explaining how we felt
:26:28. > :26:33.that for ages. And you didn't vote for it? The boundary changes were
:26:33. > :26:37.one way, but the real way, for many elections you know this, we have
:26:37. > :26:42.been arguing for electoral reform... I understand that. That is the best
:26:42. > :26:47.way to deliver fair votes. That is the problem that Nick was setting
:26:47. > :26:51.out. This piece of legislation - he was talking about it in that clip,
:26:51. > :26:55.it brought together the AV referendum and the boundary changes
:26:55. > :27:01.and fulfilled the bargain struck in the coalition agreement. We will
:27:01. > :27:06.bring forward a Referendum Bill on electoral reform, which includes
:27:06. > :27:11.the provision for the introduction of a vote as well as for the
:27:11. > :27:15.creation of fewer and more equal- sized constituencies - that was the
:27:15. > :27:19.bargain. The Tories kept their promise, you didn't. I disagree.
:27:19. > :27:24.You have taken an extract from the agreement. If you looked at the
:27:24. > :27:29.full part of that, you would see a promise to have an elected second
:27:29. > :27:34.chamber. Let's look at that. I am sorry. You are doing the pick and
:27:34. > :27:38.choosing. I am not. I was involved in the coalition agreement. Let me
:27:38. > :27:42.tell you what our deal was, it is something we have been campaigning
:27:42. > :27:46.for 100 years, that some feel strongly about - namely the people
:27:46. > :27:49.of Britain should choose the people who pass the laws. When the Tories
:27:49. > :27:53.renegued on that agreement, we felt within our rights to say, I am
:27:53. > :28:01.sorry, you cannot have the thing that was your in manifesto and not
:28:01. > :28:06.in ours. The problem... Excuse me, you have accused me of picking and
:28:06. > :28:16.choosing. Let's just go to the full words. I understand them very well,
:28:16. > :28:22.
:28:22. > :28:26.They brought proposals for an upper chamber - they kept their word on
:28:26. > :28:29.that. You renegued on boundary changes. I don't accept that at all.
:28:29. > :28:34.Everyone knew when we were signing up to this coalition agreement and
:28:34. > :28:37.some of us were very clear about it, because we feel so strongly about
:28:37. > :28:42.making our country more democratic and accountable to people, so the
:28:42. > :28:45.people out there get to choose who decides the laws over them. I am
:28:45. > :28:49.afraid the Conservatives renegued. It is only when they did that, that
:28:49. > :28:53.we said hold on a minute you have to have a price to pay. What bit of
:28:53. > :28:57.that agreement didn't they keep? Look at the words up there. What
:28:57. > :29:01.words didn't they keep? They did not deliver on the expectations and
:29:01. > :29:05.the understanding. I think you know, as well as we did, as well as the
:29:05. > :29:08.Conservatives did, that the expectations was that we would have
:29:08. > :29:12.legislation passed through both Houses. It is not there in the
:29:12. > :29:16.agreement. This is what the programme was. In the Queen's
:29:16. > :29:21.speech, it was agreed in Cabinet. The Conservatives failed to deliver
:29:21. > :29:25.on that. It is completely legitimate for us to say, hang on
:29:25. > :29:29.we wanted a modern democracy, more responsible to the voters. You have
:29:29. > :29:33.renegued on that. We are not going for a boundary change which was not
:29:33. > :29:38.in our manifesto and is not our preferred way of delivering fairer
:29:38. > :29:41.votes. You agreed in the coalition that in return for an AV referendum
:29:41. > :29:47.you would agree to boundary changes and cut the size of the House of
:29:47. > :29:50.Commons. You got your referendum. You lost, you got your House of
:29:50. > :29:56.Lords proposals. You voted against the boundary changes. That is what
:29:56. > :29:59.happened. No, I am sorry, you are wrong on that. We had a package of
:29:59. > :30:01.democratic, political reform in the coalition agreement. And
:30:01. > :30:05.unfortunately, the Conservatives were not prepared to see it through,
:30:05. > :30:09.even though it was in their manifesto. I have to say, we were
:30:09. > :30:13.very disappointed in that. Indeed were many people who cared about
:30:13. > :30:16.this issue for many years. I have to say, the Conservatives have paid
:30:16. > :30:23.a price for their inability. trusting you? For their inability
:30:23. > :30:28.to stick by their word. trusting you and you renegued on
:30:28. > :30:30.your promise. I don't agrow with that. It is important our country
:30:30. > :30:34.reforms its democracy. Where we with working well with
:30:34. > :30:40.Conservatives we could have worked together there. Unfortunately we
:30:40. > :30:46.were not able to. The Germans have pulled out of our nuclear programme.
:30:46. > :30:52.British Gas has. It leaves France, EDF. It has no money, ladened with
:30:52. > :30:58.debt. Your policies are in trouble, aren't they? When the German two
:30:58. > :31:04.companies decided to sell Horizon - what happened was there was huge
:31:04. > :31:09.interest from around the world to buy that Horizon consortium. We
:31:09. > :31:16.were really surprised at the price that was paid. It was higher than
:31:16. > :31:24.people expected. The Japanese consortium paid nearly �700 million
:31:24. > :31:27.to take over the Horizon. When some company pays nearly �700 million, I
:31:27. > :31:33.take that as a massive vote of confidence. You don't know, do you,
:31:33. > :31:36.until you give them a high guaranteed price - in other words a
:31:36. > :31:41.state subsidy, they will not do that? We are clear and I could not
:31:41. > :31:45.be clearer that the key thing is to make sure we get value for money
:31:45. > :31:49.for the taxpayer, for the consumer and our economy. In the past,
:31:49. > :31:52.people have paid far too much for nuclear energy. We are not going to
:31:52. > :31:57.allow that to happen. That is why we have a policy which came from
:31:57. > :32:01.the Conservative's manifesto. I strongly support it. There should
:32:01. > :32:05.be no public subsidy for new nuclear. The latest British
:32:05. > :32:12.Geological Survey says there's enough shale gas under UK territory
:32:12. > :32:22.to heat every home in the land for 1,500 years. You say it will have
:32:22. > :32:31.
:32:31. > :32:36.There is a potential there is lots of gas we could use and I celebrate
:32:36. > :32:40.that because it means we do not have to import gas. If we have gas
:32:40. > :32:44.that is in the UK not coming from the other side of the world, that
:32:44. > :32:50.is good for the UK. The survey shows there is a potential there.
:32:50. > :32:57.We have not been able to do the drilling yet. The potential is huge.
:32:57. > :33:04.We do not know how much of it is recoverable, and how much of it can
:33:04. > :33:05.be recovered in an affordable way. We need to do all the research, we
:33:05. > :33:09.We need to do all the research, we cannot just look at what is
:33:09. > :33:13.happening in North America and say it can happen here. I hope we can
:33:13. > :33:18.get lots of shale gas, I have made sure the environmental controls are
:33:18. > :33:25.strong, things like the methane emissions... If you get that, why
:33:25. > :33:29.would it not bring the gas price down? It has in America. If you
:33:29. > :33:34.look at the gas market, there are basically three in the world, North
:33:34. > :33:39.America, Europe, Asia. They are not integrated for obvious reasons.
:33:39. > :33:43.Physical properties of gas, the cost of exporting. Therefore, the
:33:43. > :33:46.markets must be looked at separately. If you look at the
:33:46. > :33:53.demand and supply for gas, the demand is increasing quite
:33:53. > :33:57.significantly in Europe and Asia. The supply is chasing demand. The
:33:57. > :34:02.reason why, even if we are successful, it will not make a big
:34:02. > :34:06.difference in the price of gas, is because it is this huge increase in
:34:06. > :34:09.demand. Thank you very much indeed. It has been a difficult week for
:34:09. > :34:14.the NHS in England with the appalling treatment received by
:34:14. > :34:22.patients in the mid- Staffordshire Hospital, under France's report
:34:22. > :34:27.identifying systemic failures. -- the Robert Francis report. Willett
:34:27. > :34:32.damage the brand? We use it and depend on it in times of need. The
:34:32. > :34:37.NHS is under pressure. The rising demand of an ageing population, to
:34:37. > :34:43.questions about its very reputation. That reputation has been tarnished
:34:43. > :34:48.by the scale of neglect discovered at Stafford hospital. Five other
:34:48. > :34:52.hospitals with persistently high death rates will be investigated.
:34:52. > :34:55.His NHS the brand still want to be proud of? The NHS is definitely
:34:55. > :34:58.something we should be proud of. If something we should be proud of. If
:34:58. > :35:02.you look at other countries, not every country has health care free
:35:02. > :35:08.at the point of need for everybody. Regardless whether you're rich or
:35:08. > :35:12.poor, that is something we should hold on to. Over the years,
:35:12. > :35:15.politicians have lined up to defend it, not least David Cameron who,
:35:15. > :35:25.before he became Prime Minister, said his priority could be summed
:35:25. > :35:29.
:35:29. > :35:32.up like this. I can sum up nine in The nation's collective pride in
:35:32. > :35:35.the National Health Service was put on display for the world to see at
:35:35. > :35:43.the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games last summer. How does how
:35:43. > :35:47.much we spend here compared to other parts of the world? Figures
:35:47. > :35:57.for 20 12th show that health care spending was 9.6% of GDP. In France
:35:57. > :36:02.and Germany it was 11%. America spent the most on health care. The
:36:02. > :36:06.system's different. In Germany, people pay money out of their wages,
:36:06. > :36:11.and their employers pay into health care. The insurance will then pay
:36:11. > :36:15.for health care. In France it is also similar, people pay out of
:36:15. > :36:22.their wages. The difference is patients pay upfront for quite a
:36:22. > :36:25.bit of care. The reclaim it from social security funds. The NHS has
:36:25. > :36:32.been paid for through taxation since it was created, but it has
:36:32. > :36:36.been through changes. This hospital was one of the last Labour
:36:36. > :36:40.government Foundation Trust. The coalition plans caused to the
:36:40. > :36:45.biggest reorganisation the NHS has ever seen. In America, health care
:36:45. > :36:53.is having its own reorganisation. Loved by some, loathed by others.
:36:53. > :36:59.President Obama is making the healthcare system more open for
:36:59. > :37:02.poor people. Can we learn anything? They reduce their reliance on
:37:03. > :37:06.hospital care by putting in new technology to support people to
:37:06. > :37:11.care for themselves. There are pockets of really good practice in
:37:11. > :37:15.America that we can learn from. Here, the NHS remains a much-loved
:37:15. > :37:18.institution, but after the revelations this week about poor
:37:18. > :37:27.treatment of patients, how much longer can it be described as the
:37:27. > :37:37.envy of the world? Professor Karol Sikora and Nicola Horlick joined me
:37:37. > :37:43.
:37:43. > :37:47.to go head-to-head on whether the Nicola Horlick, 400 to 1,200 deaths
:37:47. > :37:51.by poor care in the Staffordshire Hospital. Another five trusts being
:37:52. > :37:58.investigated because there death- rate might be even worse. Why would
:37:58. > :38:01.anybody envy the NHS? In any large system, and our health system is
:38:02. > :38:07.enormous, you will get things that go wrong from time to time. It is
:38:07. > :38:11.very important not to extrapolate that and say the whole system is
:38:11. > :38:17.bad. It simply is not. There are some exceptional hospitals in the
:38:17. > :38:22.UK. It is the bad apple excuse. What is the envy of the world is
:38:22. > :38:27.the free at the point of delivery. Free care at the point of delivery.
:38:27. > :38:29.No other country has such a super system. The trouble is we have seen
:38:29. > :38:36.tremendous medical innovation and growth in the number of people over
:38:36. > :38:40.65, which I will join shortly, and demand for care is outstripping our
:38:40. > :38:45.ability to supply it. The NHS is creaking, and has no mechanism for
:38:46. > :38:52.people to pay into that creaking system. If the NHS is the envy of
:38:52. > :38:56.the world, why has no other advanced country ever copied it?
:38:56. > :39:02.That is an interesting point, but I'm absolutely sure that when you
:39:02. > :39:07.look at the American system, it is better. But if you look at the
:39:07. > :39:10.Swedish, French, German systems... They have health care that does not
:39:10. > :39:15.depend on your ability to pay but they never copied the British
:39:15. > :39:20.system. Sweden is very small and very highly taxed. If you look at
:39:20. > :39:24.the State, that is the place to look. It is a massive country,
:39:24. > :39:29.leader of the Western world. To be spending 18% of your GDP on health
:39:29. > :39:34.care and not everybody is covered, despite President Obama's best the
:39:34. > :39:39.10th, it is terrible. Do you want elements of the American system
:39:39. > :39:45.here? Some of them. We need to make people customers rather than
:39:45. > :39:50.patients. We cannot go round telling people they are suffering.
:39:50. > :39:55.They are customers. Hospitals should be managed like hotels, and
:39:55. > :40:01.they are not. Stafford is a classic example. Every system has bad
:40:01. > :40:05.things happen. How would you change it? What you need to do is do what
:40:05. > :40:11.Tony Blair started, make it a competitive system where people had
:40:11. > :40:16.choice, real choice, not artificial choice. They could choose to go to
:40:16. > :40:20.a private hospital, public hospital... Would they pay? No. The
:40:20. > :40:27.NHS would become an insurance system. Social care has gone down
:40:27. > :40:34.that route. So it would be like the American system? It is partly
:40:34. > :40:41.insurance-based, they also have the equivalent of the NHS. It takes 18%
:40:41. > :40:46.of the GDP and they have even worth help -- worse help. In some places.
:40:46. > :40:52.The real answer is to look around the world, take the best, the best
:40:52. > :40:58.things about the NHS. It is what we want to aspire to. The principle of
:40:58. > :41:02.getting high quality health care regardless of the ability to pay,
:41:02. > :41:06.how you deliver that, there is a debate that the NHS is only one way.
:41:06. > :41:10.Is there no way you would change the NHS to make it function better?
:41:10. > :41:14.I think in terms of giving people a choice, the evidence shows that
:41:14. > :41:19.people want to go to the closest hospital. Whenever they have been
:41:19. > :41:23.given greater choice, the fact is, most people actually want their
:41:23. > :41:31.local hospital to be as good as they can be, and travel relatively
:41:31. > :41:35.small distances. We must focus on getting the number of elderly
:41:35. > :41:39.patients out of a hospital, because they are blocking the acute care
:41:39. > :41:45.beds. We have this culture that has developed that people go to
:41:45. > :41:49.hospital to die, 50% of people die in hospital. Many of them do not
:41:49. > :41:59.need to be in hospital, they could be at home, they could be in our
:41:59. > :42:00.
:42:00. > :42:04.home. -- a home. I fully agree, social structures have broken down,
:42:04. > :42:14.nobody wants to care for granny. Many people are not ill, they are
:42:14. > :42:15.
:42:15. > :42:21.just old and had incurable illness. They just need tender loving care.
:42:21. > :42:25.It is approaching a quarter to 12, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:42:25. > :42:35.Coming up, I will be looking at the week ahead with our political panel.
:42:35. > :42:39.
:42:39. > :42:44.Until then, the Sunday Politics Well come from us. Coming up later,
:42:44. > :42:48.the mayor is facing his most challenging budget round yet,
:42:48. > :42:58.cutting the emergency services and also council tax. Joining us for
:42:58. > :43:03.the duration, Bob Stewart, and Stella Creasy. We will start by
:43:03. > :43:09.talking about equal marriage Bill, passed this week despite 50% of
:43:09. > :43:17.Conservative MPs not been happy with that. You voted against it. Do
:43:17. > :43:22.you feel out of step with public opinion? We know the majority of
:43:22. > :43:27.the public do not care, according to opinion polls. Those that do
:43:27. > :43:34.care had very strong views on it. That small percentage of people are
:43:34. > :43:39.for call on one side or the other. In my constituency, I got 300
:43:39. > :43:43.people telling me to vote against it. -- small percentage of people
:43:43. > :43:53.are supporting one side or the other. Is that not because people
:43:53. > :43:55.
:43:55. > :44:05.who feel strongly are more active when against something? Actually, I
:44:05. > :44:09.
:44:09. > :44:16.had about 10 people saying, why did you not agree with the government?
:44:16. > :44:21.I wondered, why did they not ask me beforehand? Now they feel strongly.
:44:21. > :44:28.I am a representative, not a delicate. Now it is known, all the
:44:28. > :44:32.MPs that voted for it, in London, there are a great number of civil
:44:32. > :44:36.partnerships, there has been for a long time. Thank goodness for that.
:44:36. > :44:41.I have no problem with that. Honestly, I wish this had not
:44:41. > :44:45.happened. I feel battered and bruised by this matter. I feel the
:44:45. > :44:51.Conservative Party should not have brought this matter forward. Right
:44:51. > :44:56.now, we could do without his rift in national politics. Let's face it,
:44:56. > :45:06.there are lots of people... I feel in my heart of hearts that it was
:45:06. > :45:12.
:45:13. > :45:18.wrong, that is why I voted against I feel really sad that you feel
:45:18. > :45:22.battered and bruised by this week. I voted for same-sex marriage with
:45:22. > :45:26.pride. For me it is about equality and ensuring that everyone in my
:45:26. > :45:31.community, if they want to get married they do so out of love, not
:45:31. > :45:35.because of gender or society's requirements around that. It was a
:45:35. > :45:40.really important moment for me. I had representations for and against
:45:40. > :45:46.it. It is about values that I came into politics for and the things I
:45:46. > :45:51.want to stand up for. I feel sad that you feel battered and bruised.
:45:51. > :45:56.I hope in time we will recognise it as a better step where everybody is
:45:56. > :46:00.equal. I voted against it with sadness, to be honest. I voted
:46:00. > :46:06.against it with sadness. Difficult decisions taken by a lot of people.
:46:06. > :46:14.It is budget-building time at City Hall. Boris Johnson is facing his
:46:14. > :46:19.most difficult financial budget yet. He is offering Londoner's a
:46:19. > :46:23.reduction in his share of council tax. Saving �3.65 a year. On Friday,
:46:23. > :46:27.the mayor defended his choices before the London Assembly.
:46:27. > :46:34.should be obvious to all, that in tough times, when people are facing
:46:34. > :46:40.squeezes on their incomes, it is right to bear down on council tax.
:46:40. > :46:44.That's what we've done. We'll continue to do it. So, what are his
:46:44. > :46:52.key budget decisions for next year? What were the alternatives open to
:46:52. > :46:55.him? It is Boris Johnson's most
:46:55. > :47:01.controversial budget yet, cuts to Fire Service and the police.
:47:01. > :47:05.Decisions forced on him, in part, by cuts to City Hall. The mayor is
:47:05. > :47:10.also making those cuts deeper of his own choice. Firstly, there's a
:47:10. > :47:14.cut in council tax - the average household could be �3.72 better off
:47:14. > :47:18.as a result of this budget. As a result of that, the police will be
:47:18. > :47:21.getting even less money. With all the talk of cuts, it would be easy
:47:21. > :47:31.to assume City Hall is spending less next year than it is this. It
:47:31. > :47:33.
:47:33. > :47:40.isn't. In fact, GLA spending has climbed by a quarter since Boris
:47:40. > :47:44.Johnson has become mayor. The lion's increase transport. It
:47:44. > :47:48.means TFL's capital expenditure, the money on future projects and
:47:48. > :47:53.growth will go up by �590 million. The revenue on the day-to-day
:47:53. > :47:58.running of things is up too. By �236 million. There's no question
:47:58. > :48:01.that increasingly the police and the fire brigade have been put
:48:01. > :48:04.under enormous pressure. Their budgets have been cut. They have
:48:05. > :48:09.had to close police stations and fire stations. TFL is not in that
:48:09. > :48:12.position. They have been able to continue to expand. Indeed even
:48:12. > :48:17.their least used stations have been protected.
:48:17. > :48:24.It means places like this on the Central line can rest easy. On the
:48:24. > :48:28.average day only 440 people get on here. 360 get off. On a Sunday it
:48:28. > :48:33.is fewer - just 85 passengers going either way. Perhaps rightly,
:48:33. > :48:37.closing the station is nowhere near the mayor's agenda. The mayor's
:48:37. > :48:41.Conservative colleagues on the London Assembly don't go as far as
:48:41. > :48:46.calling for closures - they do think the mayor needs to crack down
:48:46. > :48:51.on TFL spending. This is where we are most concerneds a group. We
:48:51. > :48:56.think it requires further examination. We think it should be
:48:56. > :49:00.Boris's big second-term objective, to reform TFL, to be more value for
:49:00. > :49:05.money. It doesn't get the kind of scrutiny that it should. What are
:49:05. > :49:10.you saying is this is a mayor who could be more Conservative?
:49:10. > :49:13.could always be more Conservative. What does that mean? Remember, the
:49:13. > :49:18.Conservative Party at the London Assembly is the assembly group.
:49:18. > :49:22.This is a mayor who is supported by the Conservatives and fought under
:49:22. > :49:27.the Conservative label. As a list member myself, my job is to remind
:49:27. > :49:32.him that he is a Conservative. you think sometimes he doesn't act
:49:32. > :49:39.like one? I think sometimes he could be more Conservative. Whether
:49:39. > :49:44.that happens remains to be seen. As does will the mayor's policy to
:49:44. > :49:54.increase fares to help transport and cutting council tax at the
:49:54. > :49:54.
:49:54. > :49:59.expense of the fire and list will go down well with the electorate.
:49:59. > :50:04.We are joined by Edward Lister. Flexibility on how to spend it,
:50:04. > :50:08.control of land and soen. You cannot grumble about this -- and so
:50:08. > :50:13.on. You cannot grumble about this, can you? The amount of money we are
:50:13. > :50:17.getting is being reduced. We have some big savings to make. �500
:50:18. > :50:21.million has to come off the Metropolitan Police budget. We have
:50:21. > :50:27.large reductions in all other budgets, including TFL, the Fire
:50:27. > :50:31.Service, the GLA itself. Why do we hear - you accept it is a good deal
:50:31. > :50:35.- the deal has not changed - it is a good deal from Government? It was
:50:35. > :50:40.to start with. It is a manageable deal. It means we have to reduce,
:50:40. > :50:44.in line, with all Government departments. Hearing more grumbles
:50:44. > :50:49.or wanting more to do with housing. We cannot do what we want with
:50:49. > :50:52.housing unless we have our share of the stamp duty. We have more growth
:50:52. > :50:56.in London and the mayor has been consistent with this argument. He
:50:56. > :51:01.has made the point we should be investing in transport, investing
:51:01. > :51:09.in housing, investing in London's infrastructure because London will
:51:09. > :51:16.grow and grow by over one million. How is it a good deal then?
:51:16. > :51:20.According to your budget the spending will half - �240 million
:51:20. > :51:27.this year. 425 starts so far this year of new homes. If you look, you
:51:27. > :51:31.will find most of our starts were last year everything is being
:51:31. > :51:35.geared up. Are you saying that you took some money and pushed it ahead
:51:35. > :51:38.of the election to build some more? We wanted the money spent as
:51:38. > :51:42.quickly as possible. That is the way the budget is structured.
:51:43. > :51:46.Giving you less money for this year? It means there is less money
:51:46. > :51:51.this year. You use money from this year to put in before the election
:51:51. > :51:57.to boost the housing numbers last year? The numbers don't go up that
:51:57. > :52:01.quickly. It takes years to get schemes off the ground and building.
:52:01. > :52:06.A lot don't come to completion until 20156789 it takes a long time
:52:06. > :52:14.for them to come through -- 2015. It takes a long time for them to
:52:14. > :52:19.come through. �3.72 - more symbolic than
:52:19. > :52:25.significant? I don't agree. The mayor, since 200, has frozen and
:52:25. > :52:30.reduced council tax. That is 20% reduction in real terms. Remember
:52:30. > :52:37.his predecessor increased council tax by 150%. That is the difference.
:52:38. > :52:43.And those increases were for policing and extra police officers.
:52:43. > :52:47.You accept, don't you, that the Metropolitan Police is facing its
:52:47. > :52:55.most challenging financial cuts in a generation? Yes. Oh, yes, we do.
:52:55. > :52:59.But, and this is the important point, the mayor has made it clear
:52:59. > :53:08.that the number of policemen should be around 32,000. So the cuts are
:53:08. > :53:15.in the office, in police stations, in buildings. And losing the senior
:53:15. > :53:20.ranens. Do you not think that Londoners would be prepared to put
:53:20. > :53:25.back some of the police officers, the police stations or the counter
:53:25. > :53:29.-- or the counters you are going to sell. We have got an estate
:53:29. > :53:35.developed during the Edwardian times. We have buildings no longer
:53:35. > :53:42.fit for purpose. Many of the buildings are totally unsuitable
:53:42. > :53:49.for modern policing. Why cut by �3, when really from a little increase
:53:49. > :53:54.crow could cushion the blow and not -- you could cushion the blow?
:53:54. > :53:57.the same time, why should Londoners keep on paying out for back office
:53:57. > :54:01.services for police buildings. They want to pay for policemen on the
:54:01. > :54:05.street. That is what the mayor is committed to delivering. That
:54:05. > :54:12.priority is being met. When will you get your hands on, or your
:54:12. > :54:17.teeth into, as a former leader of a cost-cutting, efficient community
:54:17. > :54:23.into Transport for London? It has reduced its numbers of directs, it
:54:23. > :54:29.has reduced the back-office staff dramatically. The money in TFL will
:54:29. > :54:34.largely go to fund infrastructure. There is a programme within TFL.
:54:34. > :54:37.Between now and 2018, Transport for London is growing dramatically. We
:54:37. > :54:41.are establishing something like an increase in 30% in the rail
:54:41. > :54:47.capacity in London. There is enormous expansion in Transport for
:54:47. > :54:53.London taking place. That is needed for our population. Has Boris
:54:53. > :54:59.Johnson got the balance right here? I am sorry Mr Lister, your sums
:54:59. > :55:03.don't stack up. You are 453 managers on over � 300,000 a year.
:55:04. > :55:08.If that is not right for reform, I don't know what is. You talk about
:55:08. > :55:15.a council tax cut. My constituencies are paying an extra
:55:15. > :55:22.�50 a year for their travelcards. That is up from 2011. If you give
:55:22. > :55:31.us back �3 a year, the extra price they pay to get into work every day
:55:31. > :55:36.does not stack up. The anticipated fare revenue, � 250 million more.
:55:36. > :55:42.This is an argument run during the mayor's election. He put the choice
:55:42. > :55:47.to Londoners. He was very clear about it - yes you can cut the
:55:47. > :55:51.expenditure, yes, you can have less buses oi we was the proposal made
:55:51. > :55:58.by opposition parties. Yes, you can cut the train service, or you can
:55:58. > :56:01.invest. He made that and he won the election... Can I just, on the
:56:01. > :56:05.manage side, please bear in mind in is an enormous organisation with a
:56:05. > :56:15.lot of highly-trained, highly- skilled staff. Very professional
:56:15. > :56:21.staff and very skilled staff. That is the cost to save... It is
:56:21. > :56:24.called Crossrail and that.... the right decisions been made? How
:56:24. > :56:29.important is reduction in council tax? Are you worried about cuts to
:56:29. > :56:34.police and fire? Who isn't worried about the cuts to the police and
:56:34. > :56:39.the Fire Service. Yes, I totally understand the driving logic of it.
:56:40. > :56:44.I accept Boris's requirement to try and keep the front-line staff going.
:56:44. > :56:48.We are all worried. Do you believe that front-line thing, that by
:56:48. > :56:56.stripping out - who will manage these officers if you take out the
:56:56. > :57:00.middle and the senior ranks and replace them by constables?
:57:00. > :57:03.answer is, you can always manage better. Having been in one of these
:57:03. > :57:10.organisations there are levels of command which can be stripped out.
:57:10. > :57:14.It can work that way. A final word on this from Mr Lister. Are you on
:57:14. > :57:19.track for a 10% overall reduction in council tax for the next three
:57:19. > :57:23.years? What will go will be trimmed, cut to provide that? The mayor has
:57:23. > :57:26.made a commitment he will reduce council tax by 10%. This is the
:57:26. > :57:30.first instalment. He is committed to that. At the end of the day it
:57:30. > :57:35.is Londoners having to pay that. Londoners who are on low incomes,
:57:35. > :57:40.where this is much more important to them - the council tax content.
:57:40. > :57:45.He is determined to achieve that. And we believe we can achieve wit
:57:45. > :57:50.the direction of travel, which is there, about greater efficiencies,
:57:50. > :57:53.modernisation and really bringing our services into the 21st century.
:57:53. > :57:58.Next year and the year after looking more difficult in terms of
:57:58. > :58:03.Government funding. Thank you. Now a study this week looking at
:58:03. > :58:07.young offenders in Tower Hamlets has found early warning signs of
:58:07. > :58:13.their behaviour was being missed. One campaign wants to remind
:58:13. > :58:17.Londoners about forced marriage and the day-to-day issue women face.
:58:17. > :58:21.The global One Billion Rising campaign has come to town for the
:58:21. > :58:26.Valentine's Day launch on Thursday. It has caused a stir and will be
:58:26. > :58:34.the subject of a parliamentary debate. While it may be photo
:58:34. > :58:39.shoots, the picture for women in London is different. Domestic abuse
:58:39. > :58:42.in London is at bad levels. We need to do more about it. It covers
:58:42. > :58:46.whether it is verbal, sigh logical, financial abuse. That is part of
:58:47. > :58:51.what we have tried to do as a Government, is to widen that
:58:51. > :58:55.definition of domestic abuse, that it is recognised. Despite this, the
:58:55. > :59:00.picture in London has seen little change. The figures for the last
:59:00. > :59:05.two years show the number of rapes in London boroughs wept up by 64.
:59:05. > :59:10.The number of other sexual offences fell which 111. What have the
:59:10. > :59:14.Government been doing to address these figures? There are things
:59:14. > :59:18.they have done like create new rape crisis centres. Nationally we have
:59:19. > :59:23.done, specified funding for domestic violence. Pbdz 40 million
:59:23. > :59:28.has been ring-fence -- �40 million has been ring-fenced for that and
:59:28. > :59:32.preventing this where possible. Some money will go into education,
:59:32. > :59:36.looking at how we can prevent it in the local communities. It is this
:59:36. > :59:46.emphasis on education that campaigners are focusing on. On
:59:46. > :59:48.
:59:48. > :59:53.Valentine's Day they are calling for teaching on domestic violence
:59:53. > :59:57.to be taught in schools. What does it look like? How does it harm? How
:59:57. > :00:01.does it impact. We are not bringing up people to know that. It seems
:00:01. > :00:04.the Government is willing to listen. It has to start at a young age,
:00:04. > :00:09.where you go into schools. We are doing that. More needs to be done
:00:09. > :00:13.to say to young people, this is something that should not happen.
:00:13. > :00:17.Some would say campaigners are pushing at an open door, with cross
:00:17. > :00:27.party consensus on the issue. With figures on sexual offences
:00:27. > :00:34.
:00:34. > :00:38.stagnating at best, is it time for We saw the probation service is not
:00:38. > :00:42.intervening when the signals were worrying. They were not picked up
:00:42. > :00:47.and people committed more serious offences. We certainly need to
:00:47. > :00:52.speak to young people not just about sex but relationships. Boys
:00:52. > :00:57.and girls. I have a catalogue of horrible experiences of young girls
:00:57. > :01:05.to get taken into sexual education lessons while the boys get sent to
:01:05. > :01:13.play football. 11 year-olds, at 8% of them believed it was acceptable
:01:13. > :01:16.to hit a woman if the dinner was not on the table. Statutory sex
:01:17. > :01:22.education will be a vote on Thursday. I have been going around
:01:22. > :01:26.the country talking about tackling violence against women in society.
:01:26. > :01:33.We need to challenge the attitudes and expectations about what a
:01:33. > :01:39.relationship will look like and teach them about mutual respect.
:01:39. > :01:46.you have any issue with that? has it right. Will you vote for it?
:01:46. > :01:53.I will have a look at it. Some people resist, do not feel this has
:01:53. > :01:58.a place in the classroom. Everybody is trying to stuff brings into the
:01:58. > :02:03.classroom, but we need to make some decisions. I do not like the idea,
:02:03. > :02:07.there is far too much abuse of women in our society. Far too much.
:02:07. > :02:11.If we can actually cut it, I would like to see some evidence, let's do
:02:11. > :02:15.it, let's see if we can do it in schools, because quite frankly,
:02:15. > :02:20.some families do not seem to be addressing it at home. There is
:02:20. > :02:27.evidence that the level of advice out there now, the support services,
:02:27. > :02:32.refugees, that sector is in trouble. 230 women every day in this country
:02:32. > :02:36.are turned away from a refuge because there is not space. They
:02:36. > :02:41.have taken a disproportionate hit to the services, so I welcome
:02:41. > :02:49.cross-party agreement about what we can do in schools. The point is to
:02:49. > :02:56.make this a priority for government across sectors. Services that
:02:56. > :03:01.respect women are being cut. I hope you'll join me. You may go to the
:03:01. > :03:07.lobbyists in support as well. not know. I'll have a look at it.
:03:07. > :03:12.We will say for now you will do the dancing. Everybody can be involved.
:03:12. > :03:20.1 billion people will be -- 1 billion women will be beaten or
:03:20. > :03:30.raped in her society. What else has been happening in the capital? Here
:03:30. > :03:31.
:03:31. > :03:37.A London estate was sold by the Council for �50 million, even
:03:37. > :03:43.though it has spent �44 million moving residents out. Southwark
:03:43. > :03:48.council wants to redevelop this estate. It is part of �1.5 billion
:03:48. > :03:53.scheme to regenerate the area. This library, earmarked for closure, has
:03:53. > :03:56.been handed to a group of residents to run. Barnet council called the
:03:56. > :04:05.building in April. The council has now agreed the community group can
:04:05. > :04:09.take over the premises for the next two years. One of the Met's -- one
:04:09. > :04:12.of the Metropolitan Police's top policeman has accused the force of
:04:12. > :04:18.not understanding multiculturalism. He said many of his colleagues do
:04:18. > :04:21.not get it and he is resigning. The security firm G4S is close to
:04:21. > :04:31.receiving up deal for compensation from the London 2012 organising
:04:31. > :04:34.
:04:34. > :04:40.committee, after it failed to Bob Stewart, you were an employee
:04:40. > :04:44.of G4S. The indications are they will be playing for the costs. --
:04:44. > :04:49.paying for the costs. Have they been punished enough or be what to
:04:49. > :04:55.give up their management fee? certainly should. It was a huge
:04:55. > :05:00.inconvenience and embarrassment. I think G4S should pay more. In the
:05:00. > :05:06.end, it went smoothly, the public did not mind. They like the troops
:05:06. > :05:11.on the streets. We are lucky to have an armed forces who were
:05:11. > :05:15.willing to step into the breach. G4S did not deliver on the contract,
:05:15. > :05:18.they should pay accordingly. We need the costs recovered, not just
:05:18. > :05:23.the police and the armed forces, but that management fee. Clearly
:05:23. > :05:28.they did not manage the contract properly. That is absolutely case.
:05:29. > :05:38.We are told there will be a decision soon. Back to Andrew Neil
:05:39. > :05:39.
:05:39. > :05:46.In a moment, we will look ahead to the big stories that will dominate
:05:46. > :05:50.politics next week. First, the news. The Environment Minister Owen
:05:50. > :05:54.Paterson has moved to reassure shoppers that all processed meat
:05:54. > :05:58.products currently on sale in supermarkets are safe to eat.
:05:58. > :06:01.Speaking on this programme, he said he was reassured by the Food
:06:01. > :06:11.Standards Authority. That was despite the fact that test or a
:06:11. > :06:12.
:06:12. > :06:17.whole range of products are still How much contamination has there
:06:17. > :06:24.been to our food? The Government is already warning there could be more
:06:24. > :06:29.bad news ahead, after the meek in some company eight lasagne --
:06:29. > :06:33.Findus lasagne was found to be 100% horsemeat. The results will be due
:06:33. > :06:38.by Friday. People could be eating horsemeat and only this lunchtime,
:06:38. > :06:43.that is true, isn't it? It is possible, that is why we are
:06:43. > :06:46.carrying out this unprecedented screening of products. It looks as
:06:46. > :06:51.if the product is limited to processed beef, and there has been
:06:51. > :06:57.criminal substitution of beef with horse. Some retailers have been
:06:57. > :07:00.caught up in the scandal. Findus is taking legal advice over whether
:07:00. > :07:04.there is grounds for pursuing the case against their suppliers.
:07:04. > :07:07.Ministers have been under fire for not reacting quicker. Ministers
:07:07. > :07:12.said consumers were given conflicting advice. People are
:07:12. > :07:15.making the choice not to buy processed meat. Ministers are
:07:15. > :07:22.contradicting advice from the Food Standards Authority. They said do
:07:22. > :07:25.not eat beef that has been processed. The government said they
:07:25. > :07:30.will be introducing stricter monitoring rules for the food
:07:30. > :07:33.industry. The Government is expected to announce they will
:07:33. > :07:40.extend a freeze on inheritance tax to pay for more state funded care
:07:40. > :07:43.for the elderly in England. The individual allowance will be pegged
:07:43. > :07:52.at �325,000 for another three years from 2015. Thousands more people
:07:52. > :07:56.will become liable for the tax. A month-old baby boy is recovering
:07:56. > :08:01.well in hospital after reportedly having a finger torn off by a fox
:08:01. > :08:08.as he slept in his home. He was rushed to St Thomas's Hospital, and
:08:08. > :08:12.surgeons were able to reattach his finger. Paul Gascoigne is reported
:08:12. > :08:16.to have been faced -- placed in an intensive care unit after
:08:16. > :08:22.collapsing. He flew to America this week to check into a rehabilitation
:08:23. > :08:32.clinic in Arizona. His time in rehabilitation has been paid for by
:08:33. > :08:36.
:08:36. > :08:43.friends. That is the news for the That Eastleigh campaign gets under
:08:43. > :08:53.way and David Cameron tells the Commons about his trip to Belgium.
:08:53. > :09:01.These are the stories in the week You were in Brussels with the Prime
:09:01. > :09:07.Minister. As far as his own people are concerned, he had two big
:09:07. > :09:11.victories, the referendum and the budget-cutting. But you wonder
:09:11. > :09:15.whether the people he needs to placate, is it ever enough? You do
:09:15. > :09:21.wonder. On the day we announce we're leaving the European Union,
:09:21. > :09:25.Bill Cash will stand up and say we're still 26 miles from France.
:09:25. > :09:28.Some Euro-sceptics were praising him and others were not exactly
:09:28. > :09:35.jumping up and down. Some of the Euro-sceptic newspapers were not
:09:35. > :09:44.making much after this real success. This was not done on the back of a
:09:44. > :09:51.fag packet, not even with the November summit. He was arguing for
:09:51. > :10:01.this two years ago. How did he achieve this? He built up allies
:10:01. > :10:02.
:10:02. > :10:09.across the European Union. thought he didn't have any? He has
:10:09. > :10:15.someone austerity. Angela Merkel. The Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark.
:10:15. > :10:18.On the other issue, him repatriating powers, this shows he
:10:18. > :10:27.needs allies, and at the moment, he does not really have allies for
:10:27. > :10:31.that. That is absolutely true, but by now, Cameron was supposed to be
:10:31. > :10:38.entirely friendless. He was supposed to be not getting any sort
:10:38. > :10:45.of renegotiation, I think he is in a potentially good position with
:10:45. > :10:53.his party. The Tory party is always a very difficult party to lead.
:10:54. > :10:58.There has never been a period where has -- where it has been easy. You
:10:58. > :11:08.could ask Robert Peel about that 100 years ago. I did, he was not
:11:08. > :11:13.happy. I think just about everyone in the Tories could take something
:11:13. > :11:17.out of it. If you want out of the EU, you get a referendum, if you
:11:17. > :11:20.want a renegotiation, you get that, if you want to stay in, you get a
:11:20. > :11:27.referendum. That combined with this deal puts him in a pretty good
:11:27. > :11:32.place. That is right, and he has done well. If you look at the Times,
:11:32. > :11:37.yesterday the story was on page 14. Unless you get recognition for your
:11:37. > :11:42.victories, you will not buy off these awkward people. Even the Tory
:11:42. > :11:46.press was a bit churlish. wonder when they will be satisfied.
:11:46. > :11:51.The fact that Germany was prepared to ally itself with Britain on this
:11:51. > :11:56.issue bodes very well for the future, and also, the reform the
:11:56. > :12:06.Common Fisheries Policy. Perhaps if Europe gets a bit more pragmatic,
:12:06. > :12:06.
:12:06. > :12:09.that will help David Cameron keep the UK in. It was help -- it was
:12:09. > :12:17.useful that the Germans and the French had not agreed a position.
:12:17. > :12:21.If he can keep that, he may get a lot of things. The French President
:12:21. > :12:25.said they could not touch the British rebate because it is in the
:12:25. > :12:35.treaty. You want to renegotiate the treaty, maybe we should look at the
:12:35. > :12:40.rebate. And he still wants us to help him! Not if he is sulking. We
:12:40. > :12:45.all love for by-elections, they keep us going. We have Eastleigh
:12:45. > :12:51.coming up on the 28. The coalition partners will be head-to-head. They
:12:51. > :13:01.are already irritating each other's. This is Boris Johnson, he called
:13:01. > :13:03.
:13:03. > :13:09.Nick Clegg's for women on LBC. is Boris from Islington. -- phone-
:13:09. > :13:13.in. When you going to get all those government ministers out of their
:13:13. > :13:16.limousines and onto public transport like everybody else? How
:13:16. > :13:22.can we expect government to vote for increases in infrastructure
:13:22. > :13:28.spending, which we need in the city? They are sitting in
:13:28. > :13:38.chauffeur-driven limousines. They should get on public transport with
:13:38. > :13:39.
:13:39. > :13:43.the rest of us. It was a pre- recorded question, but it is an
:13:44. > :13:53.example. They are going to go hammer and tongs with each other in
:13:54. > :13:58.
:13:58. > :14:03.Eastleigh whilst running the The AV referendum descended into a
:14:03. > :14:07.terrible pit of ill feeling on both sides because there were personal
:14:07. > :14:11.views thrown. It affected how the coalition could operate for a siem
:14:11. > :14:21.afterwards. It will be interesting to see whether the nastiness in
:14:21. > :14:23.
:14:23. > :14:31.Hampshire affects how the Government can function. Ed Davey
:14:31. > :14:35.was robust - he doesn't care, he sticks to his position - that would
:14:35. > :14:39.have infuriated the Torys? It will. While it will be a fantastic by-
:14:39. > :14:44.election and great fun, there is a lot at stake as your interview with
:14:44. > :14:49.Ed Davey showed. If the liberals can win this, they are arguably
:14:49. > :14:53.back in the game in an interesting way. If the Tories win this, that
:14:53. > :14:56.is an extraordinary result in the middle of austerity and the middle
:14:56. > :15:02.of an economic crisis and Labour. Everyone is writing off Labour and
:15:02. > :15:11.it is a long-shot. If Labour can really mount a good campaign and
:15:11. > :15:17.get a good candidate like John O 'Farrell. It is the kind of thing a
:15:17. > :15:22.Government in waiting should be winning. It is not one of these
:15:22. > :15:26.posh South coast towns? It has been described as the crew of the south.
:15:26. > :15:35.They are hoping to say the main issue at this by-election will be
:15:35. > :15:42.tax and our great tax thrash by �10,000 and that will help people
:15:42. > :15:46.down the income scale. How has it happened? In budgets introduced by
:15:46. > :15:50.a Conservative Chancellor. It will be hard for them to say it was
:15:50. > :15:54.their policy and they pushed for. Eastleigh is a classic Liberal
:15:54. > :15:58.Democrats seat. It was won in a by- election in 1994. What do the
:15:58. > :16:03.Liberal Democrats do? They get dug in. They do well in the council.
:16:03. > :16:08.They have every seat in the Borough Council. There are four Tory seats
:16:08. > :16:14.that are not in the constituency. It is difficult to dislodge that.
:16:14. > :16:19.want to know who will win? Answer me in the knowledge that I will
:16:19. > :16:25.certainly return to this tape when you are wrong.
:16:25. > :16:28.I think the Lib Dems could pull it off. If they do it will be an
:16:29. > :16:32.important point in rehabilitating Nick Clegg joofplt the Tories will
:16:32. > :16:39.win with one caveat. For them to win they need Labour to fight a
:16:39. > :16:43.good campaign which erodes the Lib Dem vote. The winner will be the
:16:43. > :16:47.loser. UKIP because they will make the Tories' job much more difficult.
:16:47. > :16:50.Who will win? I think it will make it much more difficult for the
:16:50. > :16:57.Tories. Answer the question! better not be like that when it
:16:57. > :17:01.comes to your wedding day! The meat scandal. Where does the
:17:01. > :17:06.story go from here? Having covered lots of the stories like this, they
:17:06. > :17:09.tend to have a momentum of their own. They go in directions that you
:17:09. > :17:14.cannot predict and secondly, Owen Paterson - the great hope of the
:17:14. > :17:18.right - had him on today, how is he doing? This is any Cabinet
:17:18. > :17:21.minister's nightmare. It can go in any direction. It is uncontrollable.
:17:21. > :17:24.It refers back to things which happened six or seven years ago,
:17:24. > :17:30.long before he knew he would be in the job he's in. It is incredibly
:17:30. > :17:33.difficult to handle. The thing I am left with is isn't it extraordinary
:17:33. > :17:38.that the horsemeat scandal, which is important, but has not killed
:17:38. > :17:43.anyone as far as we know, is the subject of emergency summits and
:17:43. > :17:47.Government panic and briefing. The scandal in Mid Staffs which killed
:17:47. > :17:51.up to 1200 people isn't. It says something interesting about where
:17:51. > :17:54.we are. It says something interesting about what the public
:17:54. > :17:57.want from a Government. You can talk about cutting back red tape.
:17:57. > :18:04.On the other hand, if you find there's not been enough regulation
:18:04. > :18:10.and Chancellor of the Exchequering, the public feel -- and checking,
:18:10. > :18:14.the public feel failed. We have all become experts in food
:18:14. > :18:21.chains. There was a paper the Conservatives drew up which talked
:18:21. > :18:25.about abolishing the FSA, when they were saying we don't like quangos.
:18:25. > :18:30.He makes an important point about the balancing. They are in a
:18:30. > :18:37.difficult position. This is not BSE. There's no evidence that people's
:18:37. > :18:42.health is at risk. What is at risk is people eating something that
:18:42. > :18:47.they don't know what it is. They don't want to scare people when
:18:47. > :18:54.there may not be scare issues. I did get the impression that
:18:54. > :18:57.Number Ten had been a bit unhappy - from the way he didn't answer.
:18:58. > :19:02.think this is the thing. It is a question about Government
:19:02. > :19:05.competence. Last year, the Government got into a lot of
:19:05. > :19:10.trouble over issues, there was a feeling they were not in charge.
:19:10. > :19:17.You have to show you are in charge and you can act. We will see where
:19:17. > :19:24.this story goes. That's it for today. If you are having lunch, I