17/02/2013

:00:42. > :00:46.Morning, folks. Welcome to The Sunday Politics. The gloves are off.

:00:46. > :00:50.It is all guns blazing has the parties fight it out over Chris

:00:51. > :00:53.Huhne's vacant seat. Eastleigh is turning and to one of these British

:00:53. > :00:55.by-election humdingers. We will talk to the man leading the

:00:55. > :01:00.Conservative campaign in our top story.

:01:00. > :01:04.Ed Miliband wants to introduce a mansion tax. He also wants to

:01:04. > :01:09.reintroduce the 10 pence tax rate. Policies at last, but are they any

:01:09. > :01:13.good? We asked the man who helped Ed get the top job, shadowed

:01:13. > :01:17.Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan. David Cameron is off to India

:01:17. > :01:22.tonight, a space-age military power to which Britain still gives aid.

:01:22. > :01:27.But not much -- not for much longer. In times of austerity, should we be

:01:27. > :01:30.doling out more aid than ever, and does it work? The two sides go head

:01:30. > :01:34.to head. Ten years since the congestion

:01:34. > :01:43.charge, his London less congested? We were asked the man behind the

:01:43. > :01:48.scheme, Ken Livingstone. And with me, three ne'er do wells

:01:48. > :01:53.we have picked up off the streets of London in our very own job

:01:53. > :01:55.creation scheme. Isabel Oakeshott, Nick Watt and Iain Martin will be

:01:55. > :02:00.tweeting as if their lives depend on it throughout the programme, and

:02:00. > :02:04.they probably do depend on it. Things are turning somewhat beastly

:02:04. > :02:08.in Eastleigh. The old railway town on the south coast of Hampshire is

:02:08. > :02:11.where Chris Huhne's disgrace has prompted a by-election, pitting the

:02:12. > :02:17.coalition partners against each other. As always, when supposed

:02:17. > :02:21.friends fall out, it is getting frenetic. To give us a flavour of

:02:21. > :02:25.the campaign, our correspondent has the hottest ticket in the country.

:02:25. > :02:29.We have the Tory chairman in just a minute. Tell us how the Tory

:02:29. > :02:32.campaign is going. They are working very hard, and they need to because

:02:32. > :02:37.their opponents are very well organised. The Liberal Democrats

:02:37. > :02:41.have held the seat since 1994, when they took it from the Conservatives

:02:41. > :02:46.in a by-election. They are well represented on the local council

:02:46. > :02:50.and have an army of party workers. They delivered 50,000 leaflets just

:02:50. > :02:54.yesterday. The Conservatives are fighting back. There are lots of

:02:54. > :02:59.big hitters on the campaign trail, including David Cameron, who was

:02:59. > :03:03.here on Valentine's Day, surprising voters in one cul-de-sac by posting

:03:03. > :03:07.leaflets through their letterboxes. Tory MPs have been told that they

:03:07. > :03:11.must get on the campaign trail here in Eastleigh at least three times

:03:11. > :03:15.during the campaign. Their candidate, Maria Hutchings, has

:03:15. > :03:18.attracted controversy. Some have described her as being off-message.

:03:19. > :03:22.She made comments about education, saying her gifted some might find

:03:22. > :03:27.it difficult to get the right sort of education in the state system.

:03:27. > :03:30.Her opponents have leapt on that, saying she has insulted the state

:03:30. > :03:34.education system. The Conservatives have countered that she supports

:03:34. > :03:38.the reforms being made by Michael Gove. There is lots to play for.

:03:38. > :03:44.The gloves are off between the coalition partners. Labour and UKIP

:03:44. > :03:48.are hoping to do well, too, as the countdown to polling day on

:03:48. > :03:51.February the 28 continues, with 14 candidates fighting for it.

:03:51. > :03:57.As if by magic, we have the chairman of the Conservative Party

:03:57. > :04:00.on hand, Grant Shapps. He is in sunny Hertfordshire. Your candidate

:04:00. > :04:04.in Eastleigh keeps putting her foot in it, you are behind in the polls

:04:04. > :04:11.and the bookies make the Lib Dems favourites to win. What is the good

:04:11. > :04:15.news for the Tories this morning? Well, we have a candidate who is a

:04:15. > :04:19.local person. She has worked there forever. When you walk down the

:04:19. > :04:24.street, people say that did the job club she set up and this is the

:04:24. > :04:27.cafe she helped saved from development across the road. She is

:04:27. > :04:31.involved in the community in a real way. She would be a fantastic

:04:31. > :04:36.advocate for the area. The people of Eastleigh will decide, but we

:04:36. > :04:40.have a great candidate. By not a great advocate for the area's state

:04:40. > :04:43.schools. She says it is impossible in the state system for one of her

:04:43. > :04:50.children who is gifted and wants to be a surgeon to get a decent

:04:50. > :04:58.education in the state system. Is she right? Well, she went to state

:04:58. > :05:01.school, as did her husband, as did two of her children. We have to be

:05:01. > :05:09.responsible as politicians and not try to drag children in two

:05:09. > :05:14.elections. She was the one who mentioned it. For is she right that

:05:14. > :05:18.her kids can't get a decent state education? I think she was

:05:18. > :05:22.answering a question by someone else. Every parent wants the best

:05:22. > :05:29.for their child, be that Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband or Maria Hutchins or

:05:29. > :05:33.myself. It is reasonable to look for the best option. She has four

:05:33. > :05:38.children, and two or three of them are in the state system, so that

:05:38. > :05:43.illustrates that she believes in it. You are playing a -- paying a small

:05:43. > :05:49.thatched -- fortune for an election strategist. Why is he doing glossy

:05:49. > :05:55.photo-shoots instead of leading the charge in Eastleigh? Linton Crosby

:05:55. > :06:00.is part time. He advises us on some of our campaigning. But we have a

:06:00. > :06:05.fully staffed operation. The main thing we want to do his make sure

:06:05. > :06:09.people know we have a first-class candidate in Eastleigh. She is from

:06:09. > :06:14.the local area, and she is a natural. She does not need telling

:06:14. > :06:18.what to do, because she goes out and fights. She is an advocate for

:06:18. > :06:26.people in Eastleigh without instructions from outside. So Mr

:06:26. > :06:32.Crosby is not involved in that? I said, he works part-time,

:06:32. > :06:35.advising the party on various things. The great thing is, we are

:06:35. > :06:39.not the kind of organisation that needs somebody telling us what to

:06:39. > :06:44.do when you have such a good candidate. Maria is capable of

:06:44. > :06:49.knowing when to fight against the inappropriate development that the

:06:49. > :06:53.Lib Dem candidate for voted for in the council and is now against.

:06:53. > :06:56.Maria naturally knows to be on the side of local people, because she

:06:57. > :07:01.is one, and fights against the inappropriate development, wanting

:07:01. > :07:05.it to go in the best place rather than places that cause problems for

:07:05. > :07:09.the infrastructure. Given that she is such a great local candidate in

:07:09. > :07:13.your view, if you can't win Eastleigh after the sitting Lib Dem

:07:13. > :07:20.MP departed in disgrace, then you're a general election strategy

:07:20. > :07:24.of winning 20 Lib-Dem seats is for the birds. The idea that any by-

:07:24. > :07:28.election is a determinant of the next general election has been

:07:28. > :07:35.disproved over the years. I don't know what will happen in Eastleigh.

:07:35. > :07:38.I agree with your correspondent. It is a tough battle. But we will

:07:38. > :07:44.fight for the hearts and minds of Eastleigh residents. If they want

:07:44. > :07:49.an MP who works hard, his local, who fought at the last election and

:07:49. > :07:53.did not win it, but did not go away and carried on fighting, not

:07:53. > :07:58.because she is a politician, but she's a regular person who believes

:07:58. > :08:01.in the area, people will get not a professional politician, but

:08:01. > :08:07.someone who cares passionately about Eastleigh. Speaking of

:08:08. > :08:15.regular people, when will you give Nadine Dorries the whip back?

:08:15. > :08:23.is not my choice. It is up to the Chief Whip. You don't have a view

:08:23. > :08:30.as to whether she should be back or not? That is a matter between her

:08:30. > :08:39.and the Chief Whip. As we know, when she went away, it was not on

:08:39. > :08:48.authorised leave, to go on a celebrity show.

:08:48. > :08:55.I would love to tell you the answer, but I don't know.

:08:55. > :08:58.Nick, the Tory campaign, he is not the most confident Tory. But they

:08:59. > :09:03.have a new approach, which is a Tory candidate who does not agree

:09:03. > :09:08.with the Prime Minister on most of the issues of the day - Europe, gay

:09:08. > :09:12.marriage. It is a franchise approach. It is like McDonald's,

:09:12. > :09:17.they have franchised the Tory plan to Maria Hutchings in Eastleigh. If

:09:17. > :09:21.you don't agree with the leadership, it doesn't matter. It may work in a

:09:21. > :09:25.by-election, but that is not serious governance. Remember New

:09:25. > :09:29.Labour, when they were storming those by-elections in the '90s? You

:09:30. > :09:35.looked at a disciplined, governing force. This does not look like a

:09:35. > :09:38.serious force. Somebody said to us that the Tory headquarters at the

:09:38. > :09:43.Eastleigh by-election was like a scene from a cowboy movie, but one

:09:43. > :09:48.where the tumbleweed was just drifting through the corridors.

:09:48. > :09:55.Absolutely. The Tories have a real problem there. It is getting

:09:55. > :09:59.unpleasant. No one expected it to be an edifying contest, but it is

:09:59. > :10:04.happening because there is a lot at stake for three of the main parties.

:10:04. > :10:08.They all need a win. The Lib Dems need to hold on because that

:10:08. > :10:14.suggests that they are on the way back. The Tories need to win. And

:10:14. > :10:19.Labour's candidate has put it well. He is rather refreshing. He said

:10:19. > :10:24.yesterday that he had no idea what would happen, that anything could

:10:24. > :10:28.happen. You could get a UKIP surge or in Labour surge. It is all to

:10:28. > :10:34.play for. You have to hand it to the Tories for not choosing a Tory

:10:34. > :10:40.robot on this occasion. I don't know whether you two have been in

:10:40. > :10:43.the constituency this week, I haven't. But my sense is that there

:10:43. > :10:51.is increasing panic in the Tory campaign headquarters. They have

:10:51. > :10:54.chosen an unusual candidate. There has been a game of cat-and-mouse

:10:54. > :10:57.with journalists trying to get an interview with Maria Hutchings

:10:57. > :11:02.which is ridiculous. They are desperately trying to control their

:11:02. > :11:05.candidate now. You can get a list of all the

:11:05. > :11:09.candidates in Eastleigh on the BBC website.

:11:09. > :11:13.The Liberal Democrats like the idea. Labour is now a jolly keen on it,

:11:13. > :11:18.too. The Tories are not so keen. I am talking about a mansion tax,

:11:18. > :11:21.which Ed Miliband says he would like to introduce so that he can

:11:21. > :11:26.reintroduce the 10 pence income tax rate which Gordon Brown introduced

:11:26. > :11:30.in the late 1990s and then abolished amid controversy in 2007.

:11:30. > :11:35.So Labour is beginning to flesh out its policies, but will it lead to

:11:35. > :11:39.them being trusted when it comes to the nation's finances? We sent Adam

:11:39. > :11:42.Fleming to find out. If only he had thought of a more scientific way of

:11:42. > :11:46.measuring the public mood. To find out whether people trust

:11:46. > :11:51.the Labour Party on the economy, we have come to Spitalfields Market in

:11:51. > :11:59.London, a stone's throw from the City. We will use our mood box,

:11:59. > :12:05.where people vote with these. The Tory government have done what

:12:05. > :12:13.they promised. They need to do more for the working class. Do you trust

:12:13. > :12:17.Labour on the economy? Did you put it in less by accident? Yes, sorry.

:12:17. > :12:21.Labour have not set out their credentials. I have seen Ed

:12:21. > :12:28.Miliband say they will reintroduce the 10 pence tax. It is the first

:12:28. > :12:37.policy I have seen. I will leave my ball there. You have until 2015 to

:12:37. > :12:42.decide. They have a way to go before they regain public trust.

:12:42. > :12:47.What about the small matter of running up a massive deficit?

:12:47. > :12:55.admittedly. But we were heading that way anyway. I don't feel this

:12:55. > :13:05.is Labour's fault. Absolutely yes. Trustworthy, good people. Is that

:13:05. > :13:06.

:13:06. > :13:16.message getting through? No. Which party do you trust on the economy?

:13:16. > :13:16.

:13:16. > :13:26.Do you trust the Labour Party on the economy? I don't trust Miliband.

:13:26. > :13:30.

:13:30. > :13:33.And Ed Balls... Well. Miliband or balls? Ed Balls? I don't trust him.

:13:33. > :13:42.Soon the spending and what they were throwing money at, I don't

:13:42. > :13:47.trust them. What a question! I don't trust any of them. One have

:13:47. > :13:51.you gone for yes? Because I am a lifelong socialist and I would

:13:51. > :13:56.never vote anything else. In fact, this Labour is not quite left

:13:56. > :14:06.enough for me. Take a break from shopping and Total Politics?

:14:06. > :14:08.

:14:08. > :14:13.thank you! Who is our prime minister? David Cameron. David

:14:13. > :14:16.Cameron! But he seems to have a concrete plan on reducing the

:14:16. > :14:22.deficit, whereas Ed Miliband has a funny voice and does not really say

:14:22. > :14:28.anything. I would like a box in the middle that says, I would like to.

:14:28. > :14:32.The EU can't say yes? Are a guess so. Doesn't look good. The balls

:14:32. > :14:36.have cast judgement on the economic policies of Ed Balls, and the

:14:36. > :14:46.majority of the public say no, they don't trust the Labour Party on the

:14:46. > :14:47.

:14:47. > :14:52.The shadow Justice Secretary, Sadiq Khan joins me now.

:14:52. > :14:56.Welcome. We note mood box is not scientific but opinion polls are

:14:56. > :15:01.reliable in these matters. Let me show you this one which confirms

:15:01. > :15:06.the mood box. It is who is most to blame for the economic downturn? I

:15:06. > :15:11.wonder why, three years into the coalition, with almost no growth in

:15:11. > :15:13.the economy, living standards still falling, taxes rising, why do more

:15:13. > :15:17.people still blame Labour for the state of the economy, than the

:15:17. > :15:21.Government? I think the mood box and the polls you have, I don't

:15:21. > :15:26.disagree what they say. I think it is fair that after we secured 29%

:15:26. > :15:28.of the popular vote in May 2010, in two years and nine months we have

:15:28. > :15:32.not won back the trust and confidence of the British people.

:15:32. > :15:35.That's what the speech this week by Ed Miliband was about. There have

:15:36. > :15:40.been other announcements we have made to show to the British public

:15:40. > :15:45.that we get their concerns we. Need to persuade them we can be trusted

:15:45. > :15:48.on the economy and we're trying to win back the trust and confidence.

:15:48. > :15:52.Let's look at the mansion tax is. This a change in direction for a

:15:53. > :15:58.party which once said it was intentionally relaxed about people

:15:58. > :16:02.being rich? One person said that in our party during the New Labour

:16:02. > :16:05.years. One school of thought is the way to get jobs and growth is to

:16:05. > :16:09.get opportunities and give it to the those at the top to create

:16:09. > :16:13.wealth and hope it trickles down. Another school of thought says - if

:16:13. > :16:16.many do well, there is more chance of living standards improving and

:16:16. > :16:19.our country doing better. The mansion tax is a good example,

:16:20. > :16:24.where those who own a property that's worth more than �2 million

:16:24. > :16:32.contribute. It means we can, for example, make life easier for hard-

:16:32. > :16:35.working people on lower-to-middle incomes by a 10p rate tax. Are you

:16:35. > :16:40.intensely relaxed about the redistribution of wealth? Is that

:16:40. > :16:45.on your agenda? We do believe that wealth should be redistributed. You

:16:45. > :16:49.heard the phrase, about pre- distribution. You try to address

:16:50. > :16:54.inequality before it happens. We argued for 13 years about a men mum

:16:54. > :16:58.wage. What about a living wage so we can make sure rather than having

:16:58. > :17:02.just tax credits, to improve the poor salaries people receive, try

:17:02. > :17:05.to persuade employers to pay a decent living salary in the first

:17:05. > :17:09.place. But you are quite hostile it, would seem to the well-off now. You

:17:09. > :17:14.would take away 50% of their income, a lot. And then would you charge

:17:14. > :17:19.them tens of thousands of pounds for the privilege of living in an

:17:19. > :17:24.expensive house, of which they've already had massive stamp duty. Why

:17:24. > :17:30.would they feel welcome in a Labour Britain? Why would they stay?

:17:30. > :17:34.are in favour of keeping the 50p top rate of tax for nbgd earned

:17:34. > :17:38.above �150,000, not below it. So we wouldn't be giving away the tax cut

:17:38. > :17:42.to millionaires. I'm not arguing about whether that is right or not.

:17:42. > :17:46.I'm saying if you were well-off and earned a big salary you wouldn't

:17:46. > :17:49.feel welcome in a Labour Britain. Most people who are well-off who I

:17:49. > :17:54.speak to say there is nothing wrong in the broadest shoulders carrying

:17:54. > :17:58.the weight. So, for example, rather than a disproportionate. A people

:17:58. > :18:01.lower down the salary scale having it pay for the deficit, by, for

:18:01. > :18:06.example, cuts in the benefits and public services, we should all

:18:06. > :18:15.share the load. When Labour last went in for this sort of penal

:18:15. > :18:20.taxation in the '60s and '70s, the country suffered a massive brain

:18:20. > :18:24.drain? I don't accept these being penal for those who earn lots of

:18:24. > :18:29.money. We say for those who earn a property above �2 million should

:18:29. > :18:35.pay tax towards - which helps out those who are earning �8,000,

:18:35. > :18:40.�9,000, �10,000, it is a �1,000 band. It'll benefit for peanuts. If

:18:40. > :18:46.they are on tax credit they'll get 67p a week. It is not more me to

:18:46. > :18:52.belittle small sums of money. week. When we introduced the 10p

:18:52. > :18:56.rate, the band of �,700. It went up to �2,200. We have announced,

:18:56. > :19:01.because it is costed is about... Labour's idea of helping the

:19:01. > :19:06.working poor is 67p a week. Don't belittle the contribution that a

:19:06. > :19:12.10p rate of tax will do to heart- working people who are struggling

:19:12. > :19:17.to pay tube fares and fares at petrol stations. How can 67p a week

:19:17. > :19:23.help someone struggling to pay a tube fare whose rise is going

:19:23. > :19:29.through the roof? It would pay for roughly speaking �100 a year,

:19:29. > :19:33.roughly speaking, �2 a week. Then they'll lose their tax credit. It

:19:33. > :19:39.is not �2 if you take away tax credits. How will you work out

:19:39. > :19:44.which homes are worth ��2 million? That's what we are working out. We

:19:44. > :19:51.would say if we are in Government today we would cancel the tax cut

:19:51. > :19:55.for billionaires and introduce a 10p rate of tax and introduce the

:19:55. > :20:02.mansion tax to fund. Do you rule out a revaluation for all

:20:02. > :20:07.properties? If it meant hard working people having to pay more

:20:07. > :20:13.council tax, we wouldn't want to do it. The Liberal Democrats have

:20:13. > :20:17.suggested having a 7% stamp duty on those whose property are above

:20:17. > :20:21.�million and a third option - revaluation of council tax bands.

:20:21. > :20:26.Everybody's council tax would go up. That's the concern about that

:20:26. > :20:31.option. That's why rather than simply saying today - it'll be in

:20:31. > :20:35.man 23 yo no matter what, we are sea saying we'll do the work and

:20:35. > :20:39.see if we can afford it and that's our aspiration. Will Labour back

:20:39. > :20:43.the Home Secretary in their effort to get judges to deport more

:20:43. > :20:48.violent criminals? We backed the Home Secretary already when it came

:20:48. > :20:52.to us providing clarity to the judges on article 8 of the Human

:20:52. > :20:55.Rights Act. It respects a private life. We said the Government that

:20:55. > :21:00.we supported the Government in relation it making clear to judges,

:21:00. > :21:08.when it comes to deporting criminals, if they are dangerous,

:21:08. > :21:14.they should be deported. Soul sport primary legislation? We -- so you

:21:14. > :21:17.will support them in the primary leg shraigs? We supported them.

:21:17. > :21:22.If it comes to Strasbourg at the end of the road and they insist we

:21:22. > :21:27.should give prisoners the votes, would you comply with that? I have

:21:27. > :21:30.asked Chris Grayling and Ken Clarke on the legal advice they have. We

:21:30. > :21:34.may disagree with the judgment of Strasbourg and we have been against

:21:34. > :21:37.prisoners having a investigate for a number of years. What is the

:21:37. > :21:40.legal minimum we have to satisfy the court, in relation to which

:21:40. > :21:44.prisoners should get the votes? What I have said it Chris Grayling

:21:44. > :21:48.and Ken Clarke - show me the legal advice, what is the minimum we can

:21:48. > :21:52.do, to get away with the judgment that has been passed and let's try

:21:52. > :21:56.to do the minimum possible. attacked in October, the Government,

:21:56. > :21:58.for the fact that most burglars don't go to prison, even if they

:21:58. > :22:02.have previous convictions? Would you change the sentencing guide

:22:02. > :22:06.liebs to make sure more do go to prison -- guidelines? I think there

:22:06. > :22:10.should be a presumption when it comes to sentencing burglars that

:22:10. > :22:16.they should go to the prison. A judge is a person who hears the

:22:16. > :22:20.case, he or she, sees the evidence and the syringe Timms and sees the

:22:20. > :22:23.demeanour and conduct of the criminal. You could change

:22:23. > :22:26.guidelines. The sentencing council, we are part of the sentencing

:22:26. > :22:31.council make-newspaper relation it the guidelines they give to judges.

:22:31. > :22:35.We could, for example, pass legislation and say everyone who is

:22:35. > :22:38.found guilty of burglary should go to prison, but we think judges

:22:38. > :22:41.should have the discretion. There should be a presumption, if

:22:41. > :22:45.somebody is found guilty of a burglary on a residential property

:22:45. > :22:51.they should go to prison. But they don't. The judges could do as what

:22:51. > :22:57.they want, you wouldn't change that. I wouldn't tie the hands of the

:22:57. > :23:00.judges. It was just words. No, we have constitutional powers. The

:23:00. > :23:04.legislature pass the laws and the judges have to interpret them. We

:23:04. > :23:07.say to the judges, the direction from Parliament, 239 executive is

:23:07. > :23:11.we take it seriously of the residential burglary traumatizes

:23:11. > :23:15.families and victims and neighbours. We think it is so serious that

:23:15. > :23:19.there should be a presumption they go to prison. Why has Labour chosen

:23:19. > :23:25.a candidate in the Eastleigh by- election who was disappointed - his

:23:25. > :23:31.word - that Margaret Thatcher was not murdered by the IRA in Brighton.

:23:31. > :23:37.He is a comedian dem bad taste. He has written a book about this in

:23:37. > :23:41.the '80s or '90. I'm sure if you asked him if he agreed with that.

:23:41. > :23:45.You picked a joker. You will have to ask John O'Farrell. He is your

:23:45. > :23:49.party's candidate. Why have you picked a candidate had said he

:23:49. > :23:53.wanted Britain to lose the Falklands War? It is probably bad

:23:53. > :23:56.humour, him trying to be funny but clearly not. You have picked a

:23:56. > :24:01.joker. We can pick and choose the words of people who have written

:24:01. > :24:06.stuff in the past. He was a fictional writer and comedian.

:24:06. > :24:11.He was expressing political views that he was disappointed the Prime

:24:11. > :24:16.Minister of Britain wasn't murdered by the IRA and he wanted Britain to

:24:16. > :24:20.lose the Falklands. Why are you picking him to fight the Eastleigh

:24:20. > :24:26.by-election? John O'Farrell said these 20 years ago in a book he

:24:26. > :24:29.wrote which was supposed to be funny. Parts of it was, some was in

:24:29. > :24:34.bad taste. It is funny to say that you want the British Prime Minister

:24:34. > :24:39.to be murdered by terrorists. Is that funny? Some is in bad taste

:24:39. > :24:43.but he wrote a book that was funny and witty. If he was here now he

:24:43. > :24:47.would say he doesn't believe that at all. You have been made Shadow

:24:47. > :24:52.Minister for London. Will you one day run for mayor? I have no

:24:52. > :24:56.intentions. My job is to deliver on May 8th 2015 words going round

:24:56. > :25:00.constituencies in London, Labour gain, Labour gain. Who would you

:25:00. > :25:04.like to be mayor? I love this city. It is a city I have been born and

:25:04. > :25:09.raised in. You are a Londoner. Why wouldn't you like to be mayor of

:25:09. > :25:13.the biggest, greatest city in Europe? I wouldn't mind serving in

:25:13. > :25:16.Ed Miliband's Cabinet and being the Lord Chancellor and Justice

:25:16. > :25:20.Secretary proper. You are not quite ruling it out. I love this job.

:25:21. > :25:25.would love being mayor, too. I love being Shadow minute sister for

:25:25. > :25:29.London. Let me see if I can deliver what Ed 45 asked me to do, Labour

:25:29. > :25:33.gains around London. There should be no part of the country, let

:25:33. > :25:37.alone London, which is a no-go area for Labour. David Cameron will be

:25:37. > :25:40.spending most of next week in India. He said last week he likes his

:25:40. > :25:43.curries hot. The main reason for his trip is to boost British

:25:43. > :25:48.business. The Government now defines relations with India is in

:25:48. > :25:53.terms of trade rather than aid it. Announced last year aid programmes

:25:53. > :25:55.to India would be phased out by 2015. Some critics argue it is

:25:55. > :26:01.premature, others question why the Government is increasing an aid

:26:01. > :26:09.budget at all overall at a time of cuts and basic services at home.

:26:09. > :26:14.Susana Mendonsa has been weighing up the arguments.

:26:14. > :26:19.Packed up and ready to go. This is ok familiar's rapid response centre

:26:19. > :26:23.in Bicester, Oxfordshire. -- Oxfam's. If there is a humanitarian

:26:23. > :26:27.disaster somewhere in the world, these boxes get shipped out. All of

:26:27. > :26:29.these could be used in programmes funded by the Department for

:26:29. > :26:32.International Development and David Cameron has made it clear he sees

:26:32. > :26:37.foreign aid as a priority for his Government but should we be

:26:37. > :26:41.spending so much on it, at a time of austerity? Government's spending

:26:41. > :26:47.on oversees aid has jumped from �8.7 billion last year to �11.3

:26:47. > :26:51.this year. That's in line wits commitment to

:26:51. > :26:56.spend �0.7% of national income on aid by 2013. A UN target which the

:26:56. > :27:00.UK has now reached. With countries like independentia,

:27:00. > :27:04.which has its own space programme on the receiving end, the Prime

:27:04. > :27:08.Minister has faced calls from backbenchers to change force. --

:27:08. > :27:15.countries like India. The Government announced it'll end up a

:27:15. > :27:19.financial aid to India in 2015. A decision think-tank IPPR has blamed

:27:19. > :27:23.on political pressure. But one former Chancellor says we need to

:27:23. > :27:26.cut back. Because we take the targets seriously, we are giving

:27:26. > :27:29.more aid than any other country in Europe. More in aid than any other

:27:29. > :27:33.country in the world with the exception of the United States,

:27:33. > :27:38.which is of course very much richer and larger than we are. In makes no

:27:38. > :27:42.sense, whatever, particularly at a time of financial stringency, when

:27:42. > :27:47.a lot of important public expenditure programmes in this

:27:47. > :27:51.country are having to be cut back, with great damage to the poor.

:27:51. > :27:55.figures show that 16 out of 23 developed nations cut the amount of

:27:55. > :28:00.money they were spending on aid back in 2011, mainly as a result of

:28:00. > :28:04.the economic crisis. But here David Cameron has

:28:04. > :28:10.continually defended aid spending. I know that some are sceptical

:28:10. > :28:15.about our aid budget. But picture the scene: you're in

:28:16. > :28:19.the health centre in Kinshasa. See the child with a needle in her arm

:28:19. > :28:25.being injected with a yell yes fever vaccine. That's the

:28:25. > :28:30.difference between living and dying. -- yellow fever. How can anyone

:28:30. > :28:35.tells me it is waefs money. Aid agencies like Oxfam agree.

:28:35. > :28:40.These are going out to help 120,000 people who have had to flee the

:28:40. > :28:44.contact in Syria. After a humanitarian crisis, dirty water

:28:44. > :28:49.can kill you this. Technology keeps people alive. There is a concern

:28:49. > :28:53.that the money the Government is sending out isn't going to the rit

:28:54. > :28:59.places. How do we know we are getting value for money. 12 million

:28:59. > :29:03.kids used to die every year from five, now it is down to seven

:29:03. > :29:09.million. Five million children won't die because of the aid.

:29:09. > :29:14.David Cameron has put new goals to end poverty by 2030. The debate on

:29:14. > :29:20.how much we put into foreign aid isn't going away. Justin Forsyth

:29:20. > :29:27.the Chief Executive of Save the Children and author and journalist

:29:27. > :29:31.Jonathan Foreman, go head-to-head. Jonathan Foreman, we heard aid

:29:32. > :29:35.workers saying film there that our aid is saving the lives of millions

:29:35. > :29:39.of young African children. What is wrong with that? Well, what is

:29:39. > :29:44.wrong with that, Andrew, it is not entirely true. We have saved

:29:44. > :29:48.certain numbers of children but the aid industry and the department

:29:48. > :29:51.trot out large numbers that are improveable, like so much in aid

:29:51. > :29:56.and that aren't true. For instance, vaccination, which the Prime

:29:56. > :30:00.Minister refers to, less than 1% of aid budget goes to that. You could

:30:00. > :30:05.put 95% and still be saving the children. I don't think it is true.

:30:05. > :30:09.A huge amount of our aid budget goes towards vaccination and girls'

:30:09. > :30:15.education and training frontline midwives. He says 1% goes. How much

:30:15. > :30:19.do you say? 2011 I think the UK Government made a pledge of over

:30:19. > :30:24.500 million over a if you years for vaccinations that. One intervention

:30:24. > :30:27.the British Prime Minister made in 2011 will vaccinate almost 4

:30:28. > :30:30.million children and already have saved 1 million children's' lives.

:30:31. > :30:34.We know it has made a big difference. We had the biggest fall

:30:34. > :30:44.in history last year in the number of children that do I from

:30:44. > :30:53.

:30:53. > :30:59.preventable illnesses like do I Vaccination is effective, but it is

:30:59. > :31:04.a tiny part of the Budget. If you are one of the 250 million children

:31:04. > :31:08.that have been vaccinated over the last few years who are live now and

:31:08. > :31:16.have not died of diarrhoea... he says you don't need 11 billion

:31:16. > :31:20.to do that. We are just talking about vaccination, which is one

:31:20. > :31:25.intervention. But across the board, we have made more progress than at

:31:25. > :31:32.any other point in history in eradicating poverty and getting

:31:32. > :31:37.children into school. Economic growth has lifted people out of

:31:37. > :31:41.poverty, and that has not come out of foreign aid. Growth in India

:31:41. > :31:43.that has lifted people out of poverty is to do with home-grown

:31:43. > :31:48.development and businesses and people making money. It is not

:31:48. > :31:51.because of the money taken by officials all over the world. As

:31:51. > :32:00.everyone knows within the aid business, it is a difficult thing

:32:00. > :32:05.to do. You can polarise the debate, but I agree that growth plays a big

:32:05. > :32:09.part. The Chancellor made an important intervention today. But

:32:10. > :32:16.aid targeted on education, health and vaccination is largely where we

:32:16. > :32:19.spend our money, girls' education. Your view of aid is what we used to

:32:19. > :32:24.do 30 years ago. Now, aid is very focused on those things and has

:32:24. > :32:29.made a lot of progress. Eight people have always claimed we used

:32:29. > :32:36.to do it badly, and now we do it well. We did use to do it badly. We

:32:36. > :32:46.used to prop up dictators. And you are not doing it now? No. Take

:32:46. > :32:47.

:32:47. > :32:53.Ethiopia. Take India. It is not just that the Indian government is

:32:53. > :32:58.not particularly keen on it, but we at DFID put a fortune in to aid in

:32:58. > :33:03.India, much of what that she -- much of which are taken by Indian

:33:03. > :33:08.officials. We should have zero tolerance of corruption. But in

:33:08. > :33:13.India, British aid has made a big difference. Let me give you one

:33:13. > :33:19.example. There is a man in India who many years ago, with the

:33:19. > :33:22.support of British aid, helped 39 villages reduced child mortality

:33:22. > :33:26.dramatically by training one woman in each village to do different

:33:26. > :33:30.things. As a result of that tiny intervention, those volunteer

:33:30. > :33:37.health workers are being rolled out of 500 million Indians. That will

:33:37. > :33:41.save a lot of lives. The point is not that no aid works, the point is

:33:41. > :33:44.that a lot of it is wasteful and makes things worse. There is a lack

:33:44. > :33:48.of accountability in the aid business which makes waste

:33:48. > :33:53.inevitable. How much of our aid budget is squandered? It is

:33:53. > :33:57.difficult to know, but we have very rigorous auditing. I agree that we

:33:57. > :34:02.should be transparent and tackle corruption. But if we don't know,

:34:02. > :34:07.we are not transparent, clearly. Well, Justine Greening recently

:34:07. > :34:11.suspended aid to Uganda because of corruption. We stopped aid to or

:34:11. > :34:19.under. There are difficult places, but there are other places which

:34:19. > :34:23.are to important, like Somalia and Pakistan. Bill Gates says that

:34:23. > :34:26.cutting aid would do irreparable damage to global stability, the

:34:26. > :34:32.growth of the global economy and to the livelihood of millions of poor

:34:33. > :34:37.people. It is far more likely to do harm to the livelihood of people in

:34:37. > :34:41.the aid industry. There are 500,000 people in the world in this age

:34:41. > :34:45.business, who carried on without business, regardless of how well it

:34:45. > :34:48.does and are routinely dishonest about how much goes into the

:34:48. > :34:52.pockets of the wrong people. If you go to other countries, you will

:34:52. > :34:56.find that people resent aid programmes when they go into the

:34:56. > :35:01.pockets of corrupt business people. Has any economy in the world been

:35:01. > :35:08.transformed by aid? Lots. We have double-digit growth in African

:35:08. > :35:11.countries. What has that to do with aid? A lot. In the centre of the

:35:12. > :35:15.famine years ago in Ethiopia, I stood in the market where Michael

:35:15. > :35:19.Burke broadcast with dying children around him. That is now a thriving

:35:19. > :35:24.market. The reason those areas have grown economically is because of

:35:24. > :35:28.roads, mobile phones, health clinics, education. Growth comes

:35:28. > :35:32.from private sector investment, but the private sector went there

:35:32. > :35:37.because the government, with eight... The Chinese are building

:35:37. > :35:41.those roads. The Chinese also give aid of. The tragedy of Jonathan's

:35:42. > :35:47.position is that just when we are making dramatic progress to reduce

:35:47. > :35:52.child deaths, he is increasing scepticism over aid. A marketing

:35:53. > :35:56.tends to treat the public as idiotic. You are afraid we will not

:35:56. > :36:01.give you the money if you admit how difficult things are and how much

:36:01. > :36:06.gets wasted. There is an inverse correlation between the most aid

:36:06. > :36:10.and that economic growth. Somalia, Haiti, and a poor, basket cases,

:36:10. > :36:15.and they get the most aid in the world. If you look at countries

:36:15. > :36:20.with spectacular growth - South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, they did

:36:20. > :36:24.it without aid. If that is not necessarily true. Countries in

:36:24. > :36:34.Africa that have done recently had at both private sector investment

:36:34. > :36:36.

:36:36. > :36:41.and aid. I have just returned from Mogadishu, and nearly half the

:36:41. > :36:46.children are dying in Somalia. They desperately need aid. That is an

:36:46. > :36:49.emergency situation. If we did not invest in Somalia, that would be a

:36:49. > :36:53.conflict for ever. We have to leave it there.

:36:53. > :36:57.You are watching The Sunday Politics. Coming up in 20 minutes,

:36:57. > :37:07.I will look at the week ahead with our political panel. Until then,

:37:07. > :37:09.

:37:09. > :37:15.the Sunday Politics across the UK. Welcome to the London part of the

:37:15. > :37:18.show. Coming up, today, at the congestion charge celebrates its

:37:18. > :37:24.tenth birthday, we will ask the man behind the scheme, Ken Livingstone,

:37:24. > :37:26.if it has worked. With us for the duration, the Conservative MP for

:37:26. > :37:30.Bexley and old Sidcup and Home Office minister James Brokenshire

:37:30. > :37:33.and Dame Tessa Jowell, Labour MP for Dulwich and West Norwood. First,

:37:33. > :37:38.it will be a big seven days for the capital's hospitals. This time next

:37:38. > :37:42.week, we will know the fate of a further half a dozen A&Es. If NHS

:37:42. > :37:45.bosses get their way, six more emergency departments in north-west

:37:45. > :37:49.and south-west London could face the chop, are being downgraded to

:37:49. > :37:53.what they call urgent care centres. The argument is that bigger and

:37:53. > :37:58.fewer units will save more lives. Is it an argument either of you

:37:59. > :38:02.buy? There is an argument to say that if you have certain serious

:38:02. > :38:06.conditions, getting to somewhere to provide the specialist need makes

:38:06. > :38:10.you more likely to recover afterwards. We have seen this with

:38:10. > :38:15.things like stroke. That is the approach being taken here. The

:38:15. > :38:18.question is always about capacity. We have a situation in south-east

:38:18. > :38:22.London, and I was pleased that the Health Secretary said that Lewisham

:38:22. > :38:26.would retain its A&E for the majority of people with cases of

:38:26. > :38:32.need. It is about focusing on getting the best outcome for the

:38:32. > :38:36.local health service. Can we change quite so quickly, though? It seems

:38:36. > :38:40.the pace of change has escalated dramatically in London. There are

:38:40. > :38:45.three things going on at once - the employment of the government's

:38:45. > :38:50.market-led health reforms, the reconfiguration of A&E departments

:38:50. > :38:57.and thirdly, in south London, you have proposals for the merger of

:38:57. > :39:01.King's College Hospital and Guys and Thomas's. That is a lot of

:39:01. > :39:06.disruption for nurses and doctors. And also for patients. It is hard

:39:06. > :39:10.to understand what is going on. A&Es have always been the front

:39:10. > :39:15.door to the NHS, and people don't understand the changes. If you look

:39:15. > :39:20.at A&Es, if you walk in the door, you will be treated there. Most of

:39:20. > :39:23.those emergency cases will not be walking cases. It will be the

:39:24. > :39:29.ambulance that takes you to the most appropriate place. It is the

:39:29. > :39:35.focus on getting the right care quickly. Nobody can disagree with

:39:35. > :39:39.the assertion that any departments should be organised to save the

:39:39. > :39:43.most lives -- accident and emergency departments should save

:39:43. > :39:49.the most lives. Conditions from which people would die ten years

:39:49. > :39:53.ago, they can now survive. But it is a question of trust. If you take

:39:53. > :39:56.the decisions about Lewisham, for instance, where the health

:39:56. > :40:01.secretary has at about 100 lives could be saved, where is the

:40:01. > :40:07.evidence for that? It is hotly contested. You talk about the issue

:40:07. > :40:13.of trust. That is something we will talk about later. But should people

:40:13. > :40:18.listen to politicians? None of you is going to say it is fine to shut

:40:18. > :40:24.my any. You have both campaigned on it. Or should they listen to

:40:24. > :40:32.doctors, who saved lives? evidence should be clinical

:40:32. > :40:41.evidence. And I think politicians should act as the voices of local

:40:41. > :40:45.communities, mediating on a proper solution between what may be

:40:45. > :40:50.difficult factors to reconcile. There has to be that blend of

:40:50. > :40:54.conditions providing their view. But it is not right to say that the

:40:54. > :40:59.public or politicians should be excluded from that. There are often

:40:59. > :41:03.local circumstances. You know your area well. You know the challenges.

:41:03. > :41:08.It is about a blend of bringing together the public with health

:41:08. > :41:12.professionals to make sure we get the right outcome. Accepting that

:41:12. > :41:19.there are financial issues here, some of those PFI debts are

:41:19. > :41:23.unsustainable. We will hear a lot more about that next week.

:41:23. > :41:27.Now, it might seem like a daft question, but how would you like to

:41:27. > :41:32.save hundreds of pounds off your energy bill? A bit of a no-brainer,

:41:32. > :41:36.you might think, and that is what London's councils are hoping. In a

:41:36. > :41:39.week, there are launching what they have called the Big London Energy

:41:39. > :41:42.Switch. The idea is to get a million Londoners to sign up and

:41:42. > :41:48.then use that support to hammer out the cheapest deal from the energy

:41:48. > :41:52.companies. But is it the best way to bring down our bills?

:41:52. > :41:56.Trudy Kennedy retired four years ago. Without a regular salary, she

:41:57. > :42:02.has had to make changes. The only way you can accommodate that is to

:42:02. > :42:11.cut back on your heating. I switch off my heating when I go out. And

:42:11. > :42:16.we enjoy our snuggle blankets. I did wear a hat indoors, because it

:42:16. > :42:23.keeps you warm. You have to economise. You could cut back on

:42:23. > :42:28.your food. But the bills have to be met. But today, she is being told

:42:28. > :42:32.about the Big London Energy Switch, due to launch in a few weeks. It is

:42:32. > :42:35.a new plan from London councils, designed to help with energy bills

:42:35. > :42:39.and spearheaded by her local authority, Kingston. It works like

:42:39. > :42:43.this. At the moment, we all go around as individuals and find the

:42:43. > :42:48.best deal for our household energy bills, if we have the time and

:42:48. > :42:53.inclination. But under the scheme, anyone in London can sign up, a

:42:53. > :42:57.group together and use one huge new contract to get a big discount from

:42:57. > :43:00.the energy company who wins it. The target is to get 1 million people

:43:00. > :43:05.involved, and could save households hundreds of pounds. A similar

:43:05. > :43:10.scheme run by the consumer group Which? took an average 230 quid off

:43:10. > :43:14.the bills of 38,000 households. Perhaps all very laudable, but

:43:14. > :43:18.their -- but our local councils the best people to do this? Not

:43:18. > :43:23.according to some. The air is a big distortion of the market here. If

:43:23. > :43:27.London councils do this together, combined as one, it is nearly

:43:28. > :43:31.impossible for smaller groups to enter the market. If there was a

:43:31. > :43:35.particular housing estate that thought, if we all get together, we

:43:36. > :43:40.might be able to cut a deal, that becomes crowded out. This is true

:43:40. > :43:45.of vast amounts of government policy. However well-intentioned,

:43:45. > :43:51.it prevents more spontaneous, smarter actions growing up in the

:43:51. > :43:57.free market. Brixton energy in Lambeth. Even on a cold day like

:43:57. > :44:01.this, these co-operatively owned panels generate enough energy to

:44:01. > :44:04.power the building. Texas Energy is sold to the National Grid. It pays

:44:04. > :44:08.for apprenticeships for young kids, advice on how to cut bills and a

:44:08. > :44:12.small profit for the people involved. The man who set this up

:44:12. > :44:16.thinks the council's energies which will not help the most vulnerable.

:44:16. > :44:23.There are vulnerable people who do not have internet connections or a

:44:23. > :44:30.bank account who will be missed by this. We have people dying in

:44:30. > :44:34.Lambeth off fuel poverty because they are just cold. Perhaps the

:44:34. > :44:38.biggest challenge for the England and energy switch - there rain to

:44:39. > :44:44.get 1 million people signed up by April. If they can't do that, their

:44:44. > :44:47.ability to drive a good deal will be seriously challenged.

:44:47. > :44:52.Joining us is Catherine West, who as well as being leader of

:44:52. > :44:55.Islington council, is also chair of London Councils' transport and

:44:55. > :44:59.environment committee. This is your baby, and you have a challenge to

:44:59. > :45:06.sign 1 million people up in ten weeks. It clearly, councils are at

:45:06. > :45:10.the heart of the community. As we go about our daily duties, we are

:45:10. > :45:15.identifying people who are fuel poor, those who cannot afford the

:45:15. > :45:20.huge bills coming from the private companies. We will join together as

:45:20. > :45:23.boroughs to purchase energy on behalf of people, and then

:45:23. > :45:28.encourage people to switch to a cheaper product. But for this to

:45:28. > :45:33.work, you need to get an awful lot of signatures. How are you doing?

:45:33. > :45:39.Well, this ground has only just come through from the government,

:45:39. > :45:43.but we hope to reach their landlords for thousands -- we are

:45:43. > :45:48.the landlords for thousands of people, so we can contact them

:45:48. > :45:55.directly. We on the side of people in times and we are trying to

:45:55. > :45:59.assist. We can also communicate with a lot of people through our

:45:59. > :46:03.housing services. There is something in it for you as well.

:46:03. > :46:10.Councils can get money out of this? The air is a small management fee

:46:10. > :46:17.which we will then recycled back into the scheme. The EU will get

:46:17. > :46:27.�15 for every customer? The yes, and councils will than use that for

:46:27. > :46:29.

:46:29. > :46:32.We feel we'd have the best interests at heart. All of the

:46:33. > :46:36.private companies aren't necessarily setting upt best deal.

:46:36. > :46:40.Couldn't the councils go to energy companies and saying - we spend

:46:40. > :46:43.money on electricity, do us a good deal? Is that something which do

:46:43. > :46:47.you? It is something we can do. would strike a lot of people as

:46:47. > :46:52.that being the best way forward to. Get the big public institutions to

:46:52. > :46:55.use their power, flex their muscles. We could. We want to give it

:46:55. > :47:00.directly back to the residents. We have to redus our own bills, of

:47:00. > :47:03.course, which is what we need to do. We care about people's pockets. If

:47:03. > :47:07.we reduce our own costs as a council that's not necessarily

:47:07. > :47:12.going back into the pockets of the people hit by resenges and

:47:12. > :47:17.Government cuts. What about -- recession. What about what Mark

:47:17. > :47:22.Littlewood was talking bby councils getting together you squeeze out

:47:22. > :47:27.smaller projects, and you say - we have more muscle and the energy

:47:27. > :47:31.companies will deal with you. use our fee to recycle it back into

:47:31. > :47:36.paying for solar panels. Because we have been hit with Government cuts.

:47:36. > :47:40.We don't have the capital we need to do the solar schemes. However if

:47:40. > :47:44.we manage this well, we can recycle the money back into more

:47:44. > :47:51.interesting schemes around solar panels. Is this a win-win, James?

:47:51. > :47:56.You are not James, hang on, I think it is ral interesting scheme. I'm

:47:56. > :47:59.pleased London borough of Bexley is supporting this by signing up to it.

:47:59. > :48:04.It is a question of how we can ensure ordinary consumers can get

:48:04. > :48:08.best deal available. I think it's complimentary of the steps the

:48:08. > :48:12.Government is taking on the energy bill to make sure the best tar

:48:12. > :48:17.riffs available and we're getting clarity as well as the green deal,

:48:17. > :48:21.to ensure there is the focus on people being able to take steps to

:48:21. > :48:28.insulate their home and therefore consume less energy. I will gaive

:48:28. > :48:33.turn, now, Jess is a. -- I will give you.

:48:33. > :48:37.Shall Tessa. I think there is a benefit. And there is the benefit

:48:37. > :48:42.of creating this huge consumer buying power but alongside it

:48:42. > :48:46.creating a capital fund. Certainly the Brixton solar energy project

:48:46. > :48:50.has been incredibly successful. It's already won a sustainibility

:48:50. > :48:56.award. I think that we will see, across London, as a response to the

:48:56. > :49:00.cuts, more money coming out of the market. This pulling of resources

:49:00. > :49:06.in order to deprive collective benefit. We'll leave that there,

:49:06. > :49:10.James. You jumped in early. I'll stop you now.

:49:10. > :49:14.I need to talk about the green deal. We'll move on to something else,

:49:14. > :49:18.green. The congestion charge is ten years' old today. The mayor

:49:18. > :49:23.announced plans it make central London more imprentabl for some

:49:23. > :49:27.drivers, suggesting a ban for all but the most environmentally

:49:27. > :49:32.friendly cars, not though, until four years after he has left office.

:49:32. > :49:36.Has the chdge done the job it was supposed to? And what will it look

:49:36. > :49:41.like in the future? -- has the congestion charge.

:49:41. > :49:46.The congestion charge, it has become an every day part of driving

:49:46. > :49:51.in London. Since its introduction it's raised TfL over �1 billion.

:49:51. > :49:55.But while it may have been a financial success, hau has it

:49:55. > :49:58.faired in tackling congestion charge? London's transport has been

:49:58. > :50:02.charge? London's transport has been redused.

:50:02. > :50:07.The but the congestion tells another story. Average traffic

:50:07. > :50:10.speeds in central London have go the slower, falling during both the

:50:10. > :50:14.morning and evening peak times. think the congestion charge has

:50:14. > :50:18.think the congestion charge has failed in its main objective. It

:50:18. > :50:22.was to reduce congestion which is demonstrably worse. The truth is

:50:22. > :50:25.there is a nice couple of hundred million that the Mayor of London

:50:25. > :50:28.has to play, with which is additional to the money that they

:50:28. > :50:32.get from fares at TfL. I think frankly it is an irrelevance now it.

:50:32. > :50:36.Would be a brave mayor who scrapped it because they want the couple of

:50:36. > :50:41.hundred million but is it serving any purpose other than filling the

:50:41. > :50:45.mayoral coffers? No, clearly not. This week the mayor signalled a ger

:50:45. > :50:50.change. Instead congestion, Boris Johnson wants it make London air

:50:50. > :50:55.his priority and is proposing to van all of the but the greenest of

:50:55. > :51:00.cars from the centre? We are setting out a reasonable timetable

:51:00. > :51:04.for Hague an all tra low emissions zone in London. We have to takele

:51:04. > :51:07.air pollution. Premature deaths around 4,000 and babies' lungs not

:51:07. > :51:10.developing properly and there is an opportunity now to be fair with

:51:10. > :51:13.consumers and the motor manufacturers and set out a

:51:13. > :51:17.practical timetable. Such plans within the come into

:51:18. > :51:22.place until 2020. Not just the next mayoral election, but the one after,

:51:22. > :51:28.that meaning the current mayor could be long gone before cars see

:51:28. > :51:33.a red light in the centre of London. Jennifer Conway and joining us the

:51:33. > :51:36.man gave the C word respectability, former mayor, Ken Livingstone. The

:51:36. > :51:40.man responsible for the congestion charge. How has your baby grown up?

:51:40. > :51:43.Well people think it was my idea it. Wasn't. It was the business

:51:43. > :51:49.community in London came up for this. You took the credit. Rpblgts

:51:49. > :51:53.happy to do that. They came to -- Happy to do that. They came to me

:51:53. > :51:57.and other candidates to say - if you don't reduce congestion, firms

:51:57. > :52:04.will leave London. Although it has got worse in the last couple of

:52:04. > :52:08.yeevers we were down to nine-and-a- half miles per hour. The congestion

:52:08. > :52:13.charge put it up to 12.5. But it allowed the bus system to get

:52:13. > :52:19.reborn. It used to be the very poorest people on the buses. Now

:52:19. > :52:22.all classes are on the buses. it done enough? Could you have been

:52:22. > :52:27.bolder perhaps at the time? achieved all we need at the

:52:27. > :52:30.beginning. One factor is we are building CrossRail. Look at the

:52:30. > :52:36.huge chaos around Tottenham court Road and the other stations. This

:52:36. > :52:39.is having an effect. This will be come improvement when the CrossRail

:52:39. > :52:43.construction finishes. What Boris is saying is right, the world is

:52:43. > :52:47.moving on. Other cities are talking about low emission zones. We now

:52:47. > :52:51.know far more people are dying of air quality than we thought. I just

:52:51. > :52:56.think it is wrong to wait seven years when you know 4,000 people a

:52:56. > :53:03.year are dying. Not just a few months, but on average, 11 years

:53:03. > :53:08.prem touring. Do you think on retrospect you could have gone down

:53:08. > :53:12.the pollution liner that than congestion line? We Zwe set up the

:53:12. > :53:16.low emissions zone. It came in shortly before I lost the first

:53:16. > :53:21.election to Boris. There were various stages, Boris put one back.

:53:21. > :53:27.If I won the election last May we were going to accelerate it. It is

:53:27. > :53:31.not acceptable that people are having heart attacks, developing

:53:32. > :53:37.cancers and cids having crippling asthma and we are told we'll wait

:53:37. > :53:41.seven years. -- You were famous for calling the US am abouts doer a

:53:41. > :53:46.chiselling little brook. But that doesn't seem to have changed. The

:53:46. > :53:50.embassies don't seem to be paying. American embassies started paying.

:53:50. > :53:54.George Bush appointed this hardline manufacturer, a motor manufacturer

:53:54. > :53:59.fromical foreignia. He stopped paying. Now Londoners are owed

:53:59. > :54:03.about �100 million, I think it is. Is it time they coughed up? It is

:54:03. > :54:07.outrageous. We were sending young English men and women to die in

:54:07. > :54:12.Iraq to fight America's wars. Here was their ambassador treating us

:54:12. > :54:16.with contempt in their own city. Away from the Iraq war - not sure

:54:16. > :54:21.we are moving to there, off congestion, in terms of where the

:54:21. > :54:25.charge goes from here, has it got a future? Or, as Steve Norris says,

:54:25. > :54:30.it is such a cash cow now for Transport for London. �1 billion

:54:30. > :54:33.over ten years. It is about 1% of City Hall income. There are much

:54:33. > :54:38.easiers ways of getting money than the congestion charge. If you

:54:38. > :54:44.stopped it tomorrow, suddenly it would be gridlock again and

:54:44. > :54:48.everyone wouldcy - you've gone mad that's why. People said about you

:54:48. > :54:52.when you brought it In Boris Johnson is pro-car. He would loved

:54:53. > :55:00.to have stopped it if he could and getted contract. He know fes does,

:55:00. > :55:10.London can come to a stand still D- - he knows, if he did.

:55:10. > :55:13.Tessa, you can go first this time. I was rude last time. I agree with

:55:13. > :55:17.Kent. The question with the congestion charge is to what extent

:55:17. > :55:20.it is a deterrent about bringing cars in and to what extent it is

:55:20. > :55:24.about dealing with pollution. The mayor has clearly put his priority,

:55:24. > :55:29.policy on the second of those. he right? Saying it is a waive

:55:29. > :55:33.tackling dangerous pollution. But I agree with Ken. You don't have to

:55:33. > :55:39.deal with it it on that time scale. There will be a generation of

:55:39. > :55:42.children... Do you think he should hurry up a bit before then?

:55:42. > :55:45.blend on having the issue on congestion and dealing with

:55:45. > :55:51.environmental issues is an important one. I think Boris is

:55:51. > :55:56.right to bring forward the concept of the ultra-Low Emission Zone.

:55:56. > :56:04.2020, that's where the criticism is. The Transport for London has closed

:56:04. > :56:08.on a consulation with a low emission contract to have

:56:08. > :56:11.incentives on the vehicles. Steps are being taken already on how we

:56:11. > :56:15.can incentivise the right behaviour and the congestion charge has made

:56:15. > :56:20.a difference. It is around 60,000 fewer vehicles going in and out. It

:56:20. > :56:24.is important to note as part of this and whilst Ken and I may have

:56:24. > :56:27.difference on a number of different issues and have done over the years,

:56:27. > :56:31.I would recognise that the congestion charge has made a real

:56:31. > :56:35.difference and I'm pleased bore sis taking this forward anddling with

:56:36. > :56:39.the issue -- Boris is taking this forward and dealing with issues

:56:39. > :56:42.around congestion and the environment. I think the most

:56:42. > :56:47.amazing thing after two-and-a-half years of the newspaper saying it

:56:47. > :56:53.was a disaster, it came in and worked. It was a shock on something

:56:53. > :56:57.that had been predicted. On the day there wasn't a tailback. There was

:56:57. > :57:02.a snailback a man following you around. Yes, and not all with the

:57:02. > :57:07.rest of you. I think we'll leave it there on political consensus, which

:57:07. > :57:12.is unusual. That was the round-up of the last ten years of the

:57:12. > :57:16.congestion charge. Now a round-up of the rest of the political news

:57:16. > :57:20.in 60 Seconds. Boris Johnson is taking legal action against the

:57:20. > :57:26.London Fire Authority after the body refused his order to consult

:57:26. > :57:31.on fire station closures. He wants to press ahead with proposals it

:57:31. > :57:35.save �45 million with the closure of 12 fire stations and loss of 18

:57:35. > :57:39.engines. London's mayor has been criticising for failing to spend

:57:39. > :57:43.the �100 million proproviding by the Government to invest in the

:57:43. > :57:46.economy and create jobs. Business minister, Michael fallen has warned

:57:46. > :57:51.London is behind other cities in its efforts to boost growth.

:57:51. > :57:55.Passengers using Heathrow can face a rise in ticket prices, if a �3

:57:55. > :58:00.billion fif-year investment plan is approve. Heathrow wants to inees

:58:01. > :58:06.charges for airlines to use the airport between 2014 and 2019. A

:58:06. > :58:10.London council has introduced on- the-spot justice for those caught

:58:10. > :58:18.spitting in the streets. Waltham Forest said its enforcement

:58:18. > :58:24.officers were to issue fixed penalty notices.

:58:24. > :58:30.Now, I was going to ask you two about the 60 Seconds but disturbing

:58:30. > :58:35.news has reached us of a poll of politicians -- about politicians

:58:35. > :58:42.this week and it says, no-one trusts you, so I won't ask you. 18%

:58:42. > :58:46.the levels, what with do we think about that? Are you trustworthy?

:58:46. > :58:50.always think to ask the public whether they trust politicians as a

:58:50. > :58:54.collective is too high a test. You can have confidence in the fact

:58:54. > :58:57.that they are on your - that you hope, I mean I hope that people

:58:57. > :59:01.think that the Labour Party, that Labour politicians are on their

:59:01. > :59:08.side. I think people are more likely to trust their local Member

:59:08. > :59:13.of Parliament. But we took a battering over expenses. The point

:59:13. > :59:16.with Chris Huhne I think is one Tessa has identified. It is about

:59:16. > :59:20.the local link about how we are having it make difficult decisions

:59:20. > :59:23.at the difficult economic times, to Dell with the problems of the

:59:23. > :59:26.deficit and all those things and how we communicate. It is

:59:26. > :59:30.challenging. We still have a heck of a way to go. It is about getting

:59:30. > :59:35.out into communities and being part of it. I think that's where you can

:59:35. > :59:39.make the difference as a politician, so hold our hands up, that we

:59:39. > :59:46.recognise the polling. You will appreciate to no, journal is didn't

:59:46. > :59:48.do too much better. We are only 21%. -- You will appreciate to know.

:59:48. > :59:52.still doesn't mean that seeking election to represent the people

:59:52. > :59:56.isn't a good and honourable thing to do. Thank you for your company

:59:56. > :00:06.this week. We are off for half-term, but Tim is back in two weeks' time.

:00:06. > :00:16.

:00:16. > :00:19.Now been used. Good afternoon. The Home Secretary

:00:19. > :00:23.has promised new laws to stop foreign criminals avoiding

:00:23. > :00:26.deportation by claiming the right to a family life. In a newspaper

:00:27. > :00:29.interview, Theresa May accused some judges of ignoring government

:00:30. > :00:34.guidelines which say a prisoner's human rights should be balanced

:00:34. > :00:38.against any risk to the public. The chief executive of the

:00:38. > :00:41.supermarket chain Iceland has blamed local authorities for

:00:41. > :00:45.driving down the quality of food. Commenting on the horse with

:00:45. > :00:49.scandal, Malcolm Walker claimed local councils gave catering

:00:49. > :00:53.contracts for schools and hospitals based solely on cost. He insisted

:00:53. > :00:58.that supermarkets went to enormous lengths to ensure food safety and

:00:58. > :01:02.were not responsible for the crisis. There is a whole side to this

:01:02. > :01:07.industry which is invisible. That is the catering industry. Schools,

:01:07. > :01:11.hospitals. It is a massive business for cheap food, and local

:01:11. > :01:17.authorities award contracts based purely on price. If you are looking

:01:17. > :01:22.to blame somebody for driving down food quality, it is invisible. It

:01:22. > :01:26.is schools, hospitals, prisons and local authorities driving this down.

:01:26. > :01:30.Police in Nigeria say a gunmen kidnapped seven foreign workers

:01:30. > :01:37.including a Briton from a construction company. The attack

:01:37. > :01:41.happened in a north-east state. Police say a prisoner was targeted

:01:41. > :01:45.first before they caught him. A teenager was shot in his London

:01:45. > :01:50.last night. He was packed in Clapton. A 52-year-old man was also

:01:50. > :01:53.shot and injured. He is in hospital in a stable condition.

:01:53. > :01:57.An investigation has started after a woman was killed by a car

:01:57. > :02:00.competing in the Scottish Rally Championships. 50-year-old Joy

:02:00. > :02:04.Robson was watching the rally near Loch Ness yesterday when have --

:02:04. > :02:07.when a vehicle left the track and hit spectators. Two others

:02:07. > :02:11.including an eight-year-old boy were injured.

:02:11. > :02:14.AB dish teenager was lost in the Australian outback for more than

:02:14. > :02:18.three days says he was on his last legs when he was found. Samuel

:02:18. > :02:21.would head went missing on Tuesday after leaving a cattle station in

:02:22. > :02:28.Queensland to go jogging. He lost more than two stone in weight

:02:28. > :02:35.during his ordeal and stayed alive by drinking contact lens solution.

:02:35. > :02:40.There will be more news on BBC One at 6.05.

:02:40. > :02:44.So, David Cameron is off to India next week. It is the Brit Awards

:02:44. > :02:48.and London Fashion Week, which probably explains why Janan is

:02:48. > :02:51.otherwise engaged. And I expect that the horsemeat scandal will

:02:51. > :03:00.rear its head again. If you have forgotten about all the fuss, here

:03:00. > :03:09.is a taste of it. The committee was shocked and consumers have been

:03:09. > :03:15.shocked to see how widespread this contamination scandal has become.

:03:15. > :03:19.Many of his answers contain 100% bull. It is a good line, but this

:03:19. > :03:24.is a serious issue. Minister has have been asleep on the job on this.

:03:24. > :03:28.They cannot keep hiding behind FSA officials when they have been

:03:28. > :03:32.catastrophically slow to act. not for me to micromanage food

:03:32. > :03:35.businesses, it is for them to reassure the public. I am doing

:03:35. > :03:40.this interview because it is the first moment I could have done that

:03:40. > :03:45.interview. Nothing is more important to us at Tesco and the

:03:45. > :03:50.trust of you, our customers. Every day, I strode a house -- a horse

:03:50. > :03:56.near the house, and I would not want to eat it. In the Prime

:03:56. > :04:00.Minister is serious about tackling the problem of misleading labelling

:04:00. > :04:05.and the contamination of product, what future is there for this

:04:05. > :04:15.coalition with the Lib Dems? coalition must be clearly labelled

:04:15. > :04:15.

:04:15. > :04:21.at all points. Isabel, is there not a sense that

:04:21. > :04:26.the Government has yet to get a grip of this? I see it as more of a

:04:26. > :04:29.consumer issue than a government issue. Why have we got these things

:04:29. > :04:36.getting into the food system? Because of our insatiable demand.

:04:36. > :04:40.We are all guilty of it, for cheap meat. But there is also a danger

:04:40. > :04:45.that we will get a bit desensitised about here had -- how serious the

:04:45. > :04:50.problem is. That was quite a jokey clip. I saw a headline a few days

:04:50. > :04:55.ago saying something like "a horse in school dinners" and I shrug it

:04:55. > :04:59.off a bit. Six weeks ago, one would have been horrified. It now seems

:04:59. > :05:04.to be descending into a national joke. Actually, the issues are too

:05:04. > :05:09.serious to make light off. It's may be because it is as yet, an issue

:05:09. > :05:13.of food labelling rather than food safety. The country does not seem

:05:13. > :05:16.to a lot, although it does seem to want to think the Government knows

:05:16. > :05:20.what it is doing. They week ago, the Government fear was that it was

:05:20. > :05:25.going to be one of those stories that consumes the Government. But

:05:25. > :05:32.that has not happened. I suspect the public actually really quite

:05:32. > :05:36.cynical over this. They accept that it involves European regulation,

:05:36. > :05:41.the Food Standards Authority, all of that stuff. It is not something

:05:41. > :05:47.that they directly blamed this Government for. So there is a lot

:05:47. > :05:50.of relief in the government. Does this story not have legs? Well,

:05:50. > :05:56.horses certainly have legs, although not when they are in a

:05:56. > :06:00.burger. It is not the government's fault that some dodgy outfits are

:06:00. > :06:03.passing of horse as burgers. It is not their fault that there are

:06:03. > :06:06.these ridiculously long supply chains that mean a company here or

:06:06. > :06:11.do something, then it goes to France and then the Netherlands and

:06:11. > :06:16.then Romania and ends up as horse in a burger. What is their fault is

:06:16. > :06:21.that they don't seem to have got a grip of this. There is one

:06:21. > :06:26.immediate reason, which is that this is about labelling rather than

:06:26. > :06:29.health. There is a deeper problem, which is that this Government is

:06:29. > :06:32.wary of government. Steve Hilton, before they came to power, would

:06:32. > :06:36.always say, we don't want the Government to be blamed for

:06:36. > :06:41.everything. We want individual companies to take responsibility.

:06:41. > :06:45.But on something like this, you expected Downing Street and

:06:45. > :06:51.Environment Secretary to sit down, work out what they were going to

:06:51. > :06:58.say, and they have not got hold of that. But I don't see how they can

:06:58. > :07:03.get a grip of it. A get a grip on the messaging. It is about

:07:03. > :07:08.multinational systems. You can get a grip on messaging. Owen Patterson

:07:08. > :07:11.has looked completely insecure. Last Friday, we had the absurd

:07:12. > :07:16.spectacle of Downing Street blaming the supermarkets for not coming out

:07:16. > :07:23.and talking. Well, neither have ministers. It has not looked like

:07:23. > :07:28.they have a grip of the messaging. Of course it is not their fault.

:07:28. > :07:35.it turns into for help scare, the government is in real trouble.

:07:35. > :07:39.that happens, Owen Patterson's career is over. At the moment, the

:07:39. > :07:47.public is not as angry as the media presumed it would be. A let me show

:07:47. > :07:53.you this headline from the Mail on Sunday today. It is provocative.

:07:53. > :07:58.This is a Lib Dem policy commission, looking at various ways to extend

:07:58. > :08:02.the tax. They are even talking about the mansion tax covering you

:08:02. > :08:08.if you own two or three properties. I am told Vince Cable said the idea

:08:08. > :08:12.of taxing jewellery is absurd and it will not happen. It is an

:08:12. > :08:16.interesting direction the country is going in. We seem to have two

:08:16. > :08:21.political parties, Labour and the Lib Dems, who are looking for more

:08:21. > :08:25.ways to tax those who are better off. I think Vince Cable is right.

:08:25. > :08:30.If that policy happens, I will come back on this show and dance the

:08:30. > :08:36.fandango. The end we all hope it happens. We will have to speak to

:08:36. > :08:39.Lib Dems to make sure this is part of their policy. But you are right,

:08:39. > :08:44.the Lib Dems have long been trying to find a way to extract more money

:08:44. > :08:48.from those of Dacey as super rich. I don't think rummaging through

:08:48. > :08:51.people's jewellery draws is a way that will work. But 13 years, we

:08:51. > :08:56.had a Labour government who thought at the top rate of tax should not

:08:56. > :09:00.be more than 40%. They also worried that if they put it up, tax

:09:00. > :09:03.revenues might actually fall. But now you have Labour and the Lib

:09:03. > :09:07.Dems, and it could be a problem for the recession when ordinary

:09:07. > :09:15.people's living standards are being squeezed that there is a mood on

:09:15. > :09:18.the centre-left of politics to up the ante on tax for the better off.

:09:18. > :09:22.You might have to dance that fandango in the end. This is the

:09:22. > :09:26.direction in which politics is going in the UK after the financial

:09:26. > :09:30.crisis. It is possible to imagine coalition negotiations after the

:09:30. > :09:34.next election in which it is Ed Miliband, Vince Cable and others

:09:35. > :09:39.negotiating a package of tax rises on the wealthy that include a

:09:39. > :09:44.mansion tax, taxes like this. This is ultimately my problem with

:09:44. > :09:48.wealth tax, that once you start with a mansion tax, within months

:09:48. > :09:53.you end up in all sorts of other strange areas that cross into

:09:53. > :10:01.property rights. I have some bad news. I don't think Isobel will

:10:01. > :10:07.have to dance the mad fandango, because there are many mad outfits,

:10:07. > :10:09.and this idea of jewellery tax comes from the body that lumbered

:10:09. > :10:14.the Liberal Democrat party with their tuition fee policy at the

:10:14. > :10:20.last election. So there will not be a tax on jewellery. There may be a

:10:20. > :10:24.mansion tax. That is about the politics of now, not the politics

:10:24. > :10:28.of their manifesto for 2015. It is the politics of embarrassing the

:10:28. > :10:32.Liberal Democrats by holding a vote in the House of Commons. It is

:10:32. > :10:36.getting David Cameron to go on TV and say why it would be a bad thing

:10:36. > :10:41.for people with properties of over 2 million to pay more in tax. It is

:10:41. > :10:46.not about what will be in the manifesto. I and Labour will

:10:46. > :10:51.embarrass the Lib Dems, whose idea the mansion tax is, by coming back

:10:51. > :10:55.from the mid-term break and put enough motion down in favour of the

:10:55. > :10:59.mansion tax to challenge the Liberal damp -- at the Liberals to

:10:59. > :11:04.say, this is your policy, vote for it. That is right. In theory, they

:11:04. > :11:09.should have a majority in the House of Commons for that. This is

:11:09. > :11:12.potentially opening up a new political front where Labour and

:11:12. > :11:15.Lib Dems were working closer together. But when I put that to

:11:15. > :11:20.some of Labour's spin-doctors yesterday, they were really pushing

:11:20. > :11:25.back on that, saying that actually, they see the Lib Dems as

:11:25. > :11:30.accomplices in the coalition. We are not trying to embrace them. The

:11:30. > :11:34.Tories may take some comfort from that. The Liberal Democrats would

:11:34. > :11:41.say it is much more significant, what they are doing, raising the

:11:41. > :11:49.tax threshold up to �10,000 by 2014. All Labour are talking about is

:11:49. > :11:52.people earning between �10,000 and �11,000 getting about a �1,100 a

:11:52. > :11:57.year. The Lib Dems would say they have done the heavy lifting on

:11:57. > :12:00.raising VAT threshold. It is very smart politics. I am opposed to a

:12:01. > :12:07.mansion tax, but it is a very clever piece of positioning, for

:12:07. > :12:12.now. Those who advocate mansion taxes can often not explain exactly

:12:12. > :12:15.how it will be implemented. Because we can't get the details, it seems

:12:15. > :12:19.that no party in favour of it has done much thought on how it would

:12:19. > :12:24.be implemented. But the mood is interesting. If you look at the

:12:24. > :12:28.polls at the moment and particularly the failure of the

:12:29. > :12:33.boundary changes, at the moment an overall Tory majority by 2015 is

:12:33. > :12:39.probably the least likely outcome. It could change, but that is how it

:12:39. > :12:44.looks at the moment. Labour could go into a coalition with the Lib

:12:44. > :12:49.Dems, and then the mood towards more taxation on the wealthy has

:12:49. > :12:55.changed. We would be back with the '60s and '70s rather than the '80s

:12:55. > :12:58.under the Tories or the '90s under Labour. There is a move to the left

:12:58. > :13:07.over taxation in a significant way. That is a problem for the

:13:07. > :13:11.Conservatives, because they do not have unauthentic low-tax message.

:13:11. > :13:14.What is interesting about this mansion tax policy for the Labour

:13:14. > :13:20.Party is that they are portraying it as the burying of Gordon Brown.

:13:20. > :13:23.It is really the burying of Tony Blair. Tony Blair said it to tax

:13:23. > :13:26.with care, because you have to think not just of the people who

:13:26. > :13:30.will be immediately tax, it is those who fear they are going to be

:13:30. > :13:33.taxed. There are people in terraced houses in south west London who

:13:33. > :13:43.will be living in fear that if Ed Miliband becomes prime minister,

:13:43. > :13:45.

:13:45. > :13:49.they will face �2,000 a month. That breaks the law of Tony Blair.

:13:49. > :13:56.of �100,000 is a lot more than 50% of nothing. In other words, if you

:13:56. > :14:00.put it up, the people in that bracket disappear. Ed Miliband does

:14:01. > :14:06.not think that. Where you are right is that Labour still have a big

:14:06. > :14:09.problem on the economy. We have added one trillion to the national

:14:09. > :14:13.debt as a country. We have been running huge deficits for five

:14:14. > :14:17.years, and it has not delivered growth. And Labour's answer on how

:14:17. > :14:22.to bring down the deficit is to increase the deficit. That is the

:14:22. > :14:27.core problem that Labour faces. Nick, you are off with the Prime

:14:27. > :14:33.Minister to India later today. This is fundamentally a trade mission.

:14:33. > :14:40.He is going to drum up business for Britain. Will he try and get these

:14:40. > :14:43.fighter jets that the French snuck in, will he took them out of that?

:14:43. > :14:48.They are hoping for that, because Francois Hollande was in India last

:14:48. > :14:52.week, and they failed to do the final signing on those jets. It is

:14:52. > :14:57.a $14 billion deal. David Cameron will say to his Indian counterpart,

:14:57. > :15:00.if you have problems on that front, don't forget that the Euro fighter

:15:00. > :15:04.typhoons are still there. I was there on his first official visit

:15:04. > :15:09.to India in 2010, when he set a target of doubling trade between

:15:09. > :15:14.Britain and India by 2015. In the first two years after he visited,

:15:14. > :15:17.trade went up. Last year, it was flat or even went down, but they

:15:17. > :15:23.are confident that they are on target. Do you know what he hopes

:15:23. > :15:26.to come backwards? I am sure he had to come back with a trade deal, but

:15:26. > :15:30.mainly, it is about maintaining the relationship. It is difficult to

:15:30. > :15:35.make a case for Tesco at the moment, but they have a real difficulty

:15:35. > :15:39.getting a toehold in the Indian market. When Tony Blair went to

:15:39. > :15:44.China in 2003, Lloyds were having difficulties getting into the

:15:44. > :15:47.Chinese insurance market. It is not worth tens of billions, it is worth

:15:47. > :15:51.hundreds of billions. And because the Prime Minister went there,

:15:51. > :16:01.Lloyds were able to get in. So these visits are important.

:16:01. > :16:04.

:16:04. > :16:08.Our team of eager Beevers have constantly scouring websites for

:16:08. > :16:18.every political newspaper in the country for for information. This

:16:18. > :16:19.

:16:19. > :16:26.week we've come up with a corker. # I've got chills mum plying

:16:26. > :16:32.# I'm not losing control # But the power I'm sploig

:16:32. > :16:37.# Is electrifying # You better shape up... # We

:16:37. > :16:40.apologise to people of a nervous disposition. We should have warned

:16:40. > :16:44.you before we run that. It sounds like he has been inhaling helium.

:16:44. > :16:50.Why do politicians do that? They don't think anybody has a mobile

:16:50. > :16:55.phone regarding them doing it. world do they live? They should be

:16:55. > :16:58.lip sinking. The Beyonce approach would have been better. Isn't the

:16:58. > :17:03.internet an extraordinary thing for human ro pro-gres. We have come so

:17:03. > :17:10.far. I -- Human progress. We have come so far. I don't think we'll

:17:10. > :17:18.see him on the West End stage. Probably stick to the day job.

:17:18. > :17:27.dare they try to take off Graes. I saw that teletimes in 1978. I fell

:17:27. > :17:32.madly in love with Olivia Newton John. If nur public, you should a--

:17:32. > :17:36.if you are in public, you should assume somebody somewhere is taking

:17:36. > :17:40.pictures. Well, that's it for this week. There are no daily or Sunday

:17:40. > :17:44.politics next week, unless you are a lucky viewer in the South. There

:17:44. > :17:48.is a by-election special where some of Eastleigh's viewers will