:00:43. > :00:48.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:48. > :00:53.The so-called clown's hat the last love in the local elections and
:00:53. > :00:58.claimed to be changing this shape of British politics. -- had the
:00:58. > :01:02.last love. Where next for David Cameron. He is talking to men in
:01:02. > :01:07.white coats. It means they must have gone to Eton College. We will
:01:07. > :01:12.get the thoughts of former party chairman David Davis. How did Ed
:01:12. > :01:18.Miliband faire? Abridge, must do better, say some Labour folk. We
:01:18. > :01:22.will ask a supporter why he can't improve his game.
:01:22. > :01:26.As the UKIP surge grabs the headlines, what does the redrawing
:01:26. > :01:35.of the political map in the Home Counties mean for next year's
:01:36. > :01:40.elections in the capital? With me as always we have gathered
:01:40. > :01:48.the nastiest fruitcakes we could find. Three famous Westminster
:01:48. > :01:52.clowns. They will be treating their slapstick throughout the show.
:01:52. > :01:57.The front pages are dominated by the Deputy Speaker of the House of
:01:57. > :02:02.Commons, Nigel Evans, who was arrested yesterday on suspicion of
:02:02. > :02:06.rape and sexual assault. He is MP for the Ribble Valley. He was
:02:06. > :02:10.questioned about alleged attacks on two men in his Lancaster's --
:02:10. > :02:16.Lancashire constituency. He was released on bail. An hour ago he
:02:16. > :02:20.spoke for the first time. Yesterday I was interviewed by the police
:02:20. > :02:23.concerning two complaints, one of which dates back four years, made
:02:24. > :02:28.by two people well known to each other and until yesterday, I
:02:28. > :02:33.regarded them as friends. The complaints are completely untrue. I
:02:33. > :02:38.cannot understand why they have been made, especially as I have
:02:38. > :02:42.continued to socialise with one of them as recently as last week. I
:02:42. > :02:46.appreciate the way the police have handled this in a sensitive manner.
:02:46. > :02:51.I would like to thank colleagues, friends and members of the public
:02:52. > :02:56.who have expressed support and like me, a sense of incredulity at these
:02:56. > :03:03.events. And that was his statement this
:03:03. > :03:08.morning. We have since learned he continues as Deputy Speaker. He is
:03:08. > :03:14.not stepping down for the interim. There is a surprise throughout
:03:14. > :03:18.Westminster on all sides. Philip Hammond was on the Andrew Marr show.
:03:18. > :03:23.He spoke for a lot of people at Westminster when he said he was
:03:23. > :03:28.shocked by the allegations. Nigel Evans is a popular figure with all
:03:28. > :03:32.political parties. This is why he became top of the ballot for the
:03:32. > :03:36.role of deputy speaker after the general election. Interestingly,
:03:36. > :03:40.Philip Hammond was asked if he could continue as deputy speaker
:03:40. > :03:44.and he said that was a matter for the Speaker of the House of Commons.
:03:44. > :03:51.He thought it difficult to do that high-profile job while he fights
:03:51. > :03:56.the allegations. I am thrilled the police are taking such allegations
:03:56. > :04:01.seriously. A theme and headlines has been the fact that those kinds
:04:01. > :04:05.of allegations have not been taken seriously in the past. The naming
:04:05. > :04:09.of people being arrested. There will be interest in that. It is
:04:09. > :04:15.right he was named. But he will be going through the mill for the next
:04:15. > :04:20.couple of weeks. He was also a good deputy speaker. He shone during the
:04:20. > :04:25.Budget debate. I have always found him authoritative and less
:04:25. > :04:30.provocative than the Speaker. If he has to step down for the duration
:04:30. > :04:38.of the legal issue, and there is no sign of the moment, it will be a
:04:38. > :04:42.loss to Westminster. Forget clowns and fruitcakes, it is all about
:04:42. > :04:47.cheese. The Education Secretary said established politicians are
:04:47. > :04:52.akin to the safe pasteurised cheese while UKIP are like the rich,
:04:52. > :04:56.stinky variety. People say they are like Emmenthal, their policies are
:04:56. > :05:03.full of holes. They took chunks out full of holes. They took chunks out
:05:03. > :05:13.of the other parties' cheese boards. This is what they ended up with...
:05:13. > :05:14.
:05:14. > :05:20.The number of councils they control has gone down. Labour has 538
:05:20. > :05:25.councillors. It controls three councils. The Liberal Democrats on
:05:25. > :05:34.down to 352. They lost 124. They failed to take control of any
:05:34. > :05:40.councils. UKIP has 147 councillors, an increase of 139. They have no
:05:40. > :05:45.control of a council. The share of the vote translates into a
:05:45. > :05:49.projected national share of the vote of 25% for the Conservatives,
:05:49. > :05:55.vote of 25% for the Conservatives, vote of 25% for the Conservatives,
:05:55. > :06:00.four points behind Labour. For the first time ever, nobody got
:06:00. > :06:07.more than 30% of the vote in the projections. Giles spent the day
:06:07. > :06:11.behind the scenes at the elections. In the world of politics, and in
:06:11. > :06:19.particular elections, voters often one to peel away the gloss and the
:06:20. > :06:24.graphics and see behind the scenes. To ask, what are the politicians
:06:24. > :06:31.thinking? What his staff reflect on in private? What to the strategists
:06:31. > :06:39.plot as a result? Were a come back to the BBC election centre. --
:06:39. > :06:43.welcome back. On Friday, the problem was simple. A man dismissed
:06:43. > :06:48.as a clown leading a party labelled as fruitcakes walked into the space
:06:48. > :06:54.occupied by the main parties, took votes off them and made them take
:06:54. > :06:59.notice. Especially the Conservatives. They are not
:06:59. > :07:05.connecting with people. These were shire elections. England's green
:07:05. > :07:08.and pleasant land. People still go to church. Things like that. For
:07:08. > :07:13.traditional Conservative voters, particularly with Margaret Thatcher
:07:13. > :07:18.died recently, it reminded them they had an leader who was
:07:18. > :07:22.unashamedly patriotic. They talked about enterprise and business. Now
:07:23. > :07:28.they have someone from Notting Hill. He talks about gay marriage being a
:07:28. > :07:35.priority, and thinks that building wind turbines is a good idea. And
:07:35. > :07:37.thinks the foreign aid budget is a priority over defence. Essex is
:07:37. > :07:40.priority over defence. Essex is priority over defence. Essex is
:07:40. > :07:41.fascinating because the fascinating because the
:07:41. > :07:48.Conservatives have come down. Look Conservatives have come down. Look
:07:48. > :07:53.at the UKIP bar. Crunching the numbers. It is clear the emergent
:07:53. > :07:57.party is purple. In stands out. Virtually all the other parties are
:07:57. > :08:03.looking at a response and what changes they have to make to
:08:03. > :08:11.counter this surge by UKIP. Labour know that whether UKIP is the cause,
:08:11. > :08:15.their success was all right. It was nothing to write home about.
:08:15. > :08:25.the Liberal Democrats, seven in South Shields. Back is a poor
:08:25. > :08:25.
:08:25. > :08:30.results. It was the Tories who took the biggest hit by UKIP. Was it
:08:30. > :08:36.wise of David Cameron and Ken Clarke to have been little then?
:08:36. > :08:40.You have to be open and welcoming of people of all political
:08:40. > :08:45.persuasions. If people wanted to vote for other parties, we
:08:45. > :08:53.acknowledge that. It is not their problem for wanting to vote, it is
:08:53. > :08:58.the political class's problem for not listening. Some MPs are clear
:08:58. > :09:04.about trust. The leadership has underestimated the extent to which
:09:04. > :09:10.the public do not trust politicians when it comes to promises on EU.
:09:10. > :09:14.Too many have been broken in the past. The Conservative backbenchers
:09:15. > :09:19.are trying to get the Government to commit to a referendum and
:09:19. > :09:24.fundamentally bring the legislation forward into this Parliament, so
:09:24. > :09:28.people know we are serious. Europe and other issues, one
:09:28. > :09:33.Conservative went further, telling me, if I do not believe the Prime
:09:33. > :09:36.Minister's promises, why should the electric? Does the Prime Minister
:09:36. > :09:44.entertain a packed with UKIP? May be in some places he will not be
:09:44. > :09:53.able to choose. I suspect we will see local agreements made. Where
:09:53. > :09:57.Conservatives are the largest party and there is a sizable UKIP group.
:09:57. > :10:01.Local politics does end up as more collaborative than national
:10:02. > :10:11.politics. Whatever the case, the political landscape has been
:10:12. > :10:11.
:10:12. > :10:21.significantly altered. Thanks for watching. Goodbye.
:10:21. > :10:28.Earlier I spoke to a member of the European -- parliament, Godfrey
:10:28. > :10:31.Bloom. What will his party do for an encore? That is a good point. An
:10:31. > :10:36.average of 25% of the vote across the country is an extraordinary
:10:36. > :10:41.success. We will have to build on that. We have to have seats in
:10:41. > :10:45.Westminster if we can put the sort of pressure on the Prime Minister
:10:45. > :10:49.and this administration that we need to do. Elections are one thing.
:10:49. > :10:53.We have to get to grips with this at Prime Minister's Question Time.
:10:53. > :10:59.I would like to see Nigel Farage get at his throat at Prime
:10:59. > :11:05.Minister's Question Time. You have the European elections next year.
:11:05. > :11:12.Is it a dangerous, or encouraging, that you are expected to come first
:11:12. > :11:22.in the European elections? We came second in 2009. We were growing all
:11:22. > :11:27.the way through that. I thought we were bound to come first in 2015.
:11:27. > :11:31.2014, rather. That is what is going to happen. Even if we make no
:11:31. > :11:37.progress from now, with the percentage of vote we are getting,
:11:37. > :11:43.we would be the first party in the EU elections. We do not need to
:11:44. > :11:46.grow much now to make sure that happens. Would you support a
:11:46. > :11:51.mandate referendum later this year or next year in which people would
:11:51. > :11:56.get the chance to vote to give the Government authority to renegotiate
:11:56. > :12:05.the terms of membership with Brussels? And when that is done,
:12:05. > :12:08.have a referendum on the new terms? It is intellectually disingenuous.
:12:08. > :12:12.The trouble with this administration and previous
:12:12. > :12:17.administrations is they never meet the treaty's they signed. We know
:12:17. > :12:23.Ken Clarke admitted he did not read one treaty signed. That is being a
:12:23. > :12:28.clown if I ever saw anything. The European Union membership is not
:12:28. > :12:33.something we can have, you cannot pick it off the shelf. You have
:12:33. > :12:36.everything or none of it. They have made that clear. It is something
:12:36. > :12:44.the Prime Minister and administration cannot deliver.
:12:44. > :12:50.that people take you seriously. How will you fill the black hole in the
:12:50. > :12:54.tax and spend policies? That was part of the Times newspaper
:12:54. > :12:58.misinformation service. There is not a black hole. They flagged up
:12:59. > :13:05.tax cuts we intend to make but made no mention of the way we would say
:13:05. > :13:15.spending. We can save �50 million the year on crime gos. What
:13:15. > :13:23.
:13:23. > :13:27.happened to the bonfire of quangos? -- quangos. We spend 1 million a
:13:27. > :13:33.month on overseas aid to countries such as Argentina, China and the
:13:33. > :13:38.Indian sub-continent. That would go. If you look up fake charities, we
:13:38. > :13:45.spent �1 billion a month on fake charities. They are political lobby
:13:45. > :13:51.groups. We have shown we can make up to �80 billion of savings. The
:13:51. > :13:57.growth in the economy by getting rid of criminal 20% VAT, government
:13:57. > :14:02.spending is almost 50% of GDP. The black hole is an invention of the
:14:02. > :14:08.Conservative Party press. All that you need is a pocket calculator to
:14:08. > :14:12.work it out. That is a bar of the Chancellor's remit. You are already
:14:12. > :14:18.ducking and diving on policy. You are softening the stance on
:14:18. > :14:23.immigration. You did a U-turn on high-speed rail. If you look at
:14:23. > :14:27.that carefully, we were in favour of reinforcing and improving on the
:14:27. > :14:32.rail system. We were never in favour of a short-term high-speed
:14:32. > :14:37.rail running from London to Birmingham in its own right. �34
:14:37. > :14:44.billion. You were in favour of three lines. Between London and
:14:44. > :14:49.Newcastle, to Manchester, and a week to Birmingham. Now you are
:14:49. > :14:56.against it. You are like the rest. They were enhancements of existing
:14:56. > :15:02.services. A new line between London and Newcastle, your manifesto said.
:15:02. > :15:07.That is already a high-speed rail that could be enhanced. We do not
:15:07. > :15:11.regard them the same. You became notorious for saying no self-
:15:11. > :15:16.respecting businessman would employed a lady of child-bearing
:15:16. > :15:22.age. Margaret Thatcher became an MP when she was of child-bearing age,
:15:22. > :15:26.was that a mistake? I was saying the draconian legislation,
:15:26. > :15:30.employment legislation, works against young women being employed
:15:30. > :15:35.in the workplace. The point I was making that small businesses want
:15:35. > :15:40.more young women. Let's make it easier for them by having more
:15:40. > :15:46.liberal employment policies. When I made those comments in 2004, two
:15:46. > :15:51.days later in the Sunday Times, a columnist ran a piece with a
:15:51. > :15:55.headline saying Godfrey Bloom, you are right. It is something we have
:15:55. > :16:00.been right about. We should liberalise employment legislation,
:16:00. > :16:04.which we cannot while members of the EU. In few end up in coalition
:16:05. > :16:09.Government, what job would take your fancy, minister for women?
:16:09. > :16:19.would rather be Chancellor of the Exchequer. I could not make a worse
:16:19. > :16:33.
:16:33. > :16:41.job than a comedian we have at the change in the new mood music. What
:16:42. > :16:49.is your party have to do to win that trust? Firstly, I enjoyed you making
:16:49. > :16:55.my constituents dance, Godfrey. Let's start off by not being
:16:55. > :16:59.contemptuous of the people who voted for UKIP. They were not extremist. I
:16:59. > :17:05.saw them going to the polling stations in Yorkshire. They were
:17:06. > :17:13.middle-class, aspirin voters, and we have two treat them seriously.
:17:13. > :17:19.you been contemptuous? I think the comments made about them were
:17:19. > :17:25.contentious and wrong. That is a start. But we have also got to make
:17:25. > :17:30.them feel that we care about the issues, that we care about the taxes
:17:30. > :17:35.they have to pay and their job prospects. One of the things that
:17:35. > :17:42.came back, it was shocking on the doorsteps in these elections, which
:17:42. > :17:46.was a large number who were voting for UKIP did not think any of the
:17:47. > :17:53.major parties thought about them and were in a different world. Things
:17:53. > :17:59.like lower taxes, improved job prospects, as well as Europe are
:17:59. > :18:05.important, not because it is UKIP. Can there be a European referendum
:18:05. > :18:09.this side of the general election, whether a mandate referendum or an
:18:09. > :18:14.in and out referendum? Can there be anything like that without Lib Dem
:18:14. > :18:19.support which will not be forthcoming? It will be interesting
:18:19. > :18:24.if you put the prospect of a mandate referendum, to your viewers, that is
:18:24. > :18:31.a referendum that allows the country to approve or disapprove, you could
:18:31. > :18:36.do that in the next six months. In terms of politics it would be very
:18:36. > :18:42.interesting for the Liberals and the Labour Party to vote against giving
:18:42. > :18:47.the public a say on this matter. The politics for them is very difficult.
:18:47. > :18:52.If I was the Prime Minister, I would put it to the house of commons. I
:18:52. > :18:56.would say what I was going to do and this gives people a say not just in
:18:56. > :19:00.the final outcome, and it is up to the house of commons to make that
:19:00. > :19:07.choice. If it was rejected by the other parties, and that would cause
:19:07. > :19:11.a new dividing line, it would not be beneficial at all. If there was a
:19:11. > :19:15.backbench Bill promoting the referendum, should the Tory
:19:15. > :19:21.leadership support it? I think the Tory leadership should take it as a
:19:21. > :19:28.policy, so the answer is obviously yes. But if the Lib Dems stopped
:19:29. > :19:34.them? The Lib Dems are 160 one seventh of coalition MPs. Should
:19:34. > :19:39.they have a veto on everything? I do not think so. Should they have the
:19:39. > :19:47.right to say no to something which is so fundamental to the future of
:19:47. > :19:50.the country? I do not think so. In any event when two major part of the
:19:50. > :19:55.coalition are going to move apart as they seek a general election
:19:55. > :19:59.coming, I do not think we can go into that period giving Nick Clegg a
:19:59. > :20:06.veto on the policy. Why do you think the Prime Minister likes to surround
:20:06. > :20:13.himself with so many older Etonians? I do not know, this is a blind spot.
:20:13. > :20:18.It is not just about class, it is a problem of being out of touch. Boris
:20:18. > :20:24.Johnson clearly gets by it. But it does open up a weakness and it
:20:24. > :20:31.allows other people to accuse us of being out of touch. That is very
:20:31. > :20:36.serious. We are not a nation of inverted snobs. Nobody really cares
:20:36. > :20:41.where an individual comes from, but the concern is either they pay
:20:41. > :20:46.attention? Do they understand the things that I face as an ordinary
:20:46. > :20:51.person? The fact I am having trouble making ends meet and I cannot afford
:20:51. > :20:55.the heating costs and food and so on. The public have got to believe
:20:55. > :21:03.the government understands all those things and a fair chunk of them at
:21:03. > :21:06.the moment do not believe that. you not believe with Jessye Norman,
:21:06. > :21:16.a Tory MP, that it is because of this self commitment to public
:21:16. > :21:17.
:21:17. > :21:23.service? It is probably because he did not go to Eton, we have had a
:21:23. > :21:28.freeze frame. If we get David Davies back, we will do so. Listening to
:21:28. > :21:33.that is the current chairman of the Conservative party, Grant Shapps.
:21:34. > :21:39.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Will you bring forward legislation before
:21:39. > :21:44.the election, paving the way for a referendum on EU membership?
:21:44. > :21:49.next election will be that referendum of whether people want to
:21:49. > :21:54.renegotiate with the EU. If they want the referendum after that, then
:21:54. > :21:59.voting conservative in 2015 is the surefire way of getting that.
:21:59. > :22:05.answer is no, not even a mandate referendum this side of the
:22:05. > :22:09.election? We did not win the last election which is where many of the
:22:09. > :22:14.difficulties come from. To introduce legislation you have to have the
:22:14. > :22:18.approval of both sides in the coalition. We will have to make the
:22:18. > :22:26.election itself the referendum over whether or not you want to
:22:26. > :22:30.renegotiate powers with Europe. If you do, vote Conservative. What if a
:22:30. > :22:35.Conservative backbencher brought forward such a bill? With the
:22:35. > :22:42.Conservative leadership support that sort of bill? You are asking me
:22:42. > :22:45.whether we are likely to be able to introduce a government Bill. What if
:22:46. > :22:53.it was a backbencher calling for a mandate referendum? Let's see what
:22:53. > :22:56.happens. When you interview UKIP on things like this, you get a clear
:22:57. > :23:06.answer. When I interview you and other major parties it is let's wait
:23:07. > :23:08.
:23:08. > :23:12.and see. We are not thinking about the exact wording of a bill by a
:23:12. > :23:17.backbencher, but in the real world things are not quite as black and
:23:17. > :23:21.white. There are large areas of distinction and details which at the
:23:22. > :23:27.moment a party like UKIP does not have to worry about. In the real
:23:28. > :23:34.world you have to know about it. There is steam in your backbencher
:23:34. > :23:39.is building up to this. Are you going to deny it? I know you are
:23:39. > :23:45.part of building up that head of steam. This is what your colleagues
:23:45. > :23:48.are telling me. I am talking about 304 Conservative MPs. What we want
:23:48. > :23:53.to do is make the legislation available and bring it forward and
:23:53. > :23:58.we will publish a bill which says this is what we will do, this is how
:23:58. > :24:05.we will go and negotiate, this is the referendum Bill. We will publish
:24:05. > :24:09.it. We want to have that referendum on a reformed Europe. We are
:24:09. > :24:15.explaining exactly how to get there, if you agree with us on that. Vote
:24:15. > :24:19.Conservative in 2015. That bill would not happen until after the
:24:19. > :24:27.next election if you win it. We will publish that bill and we will
:24:27. > :24:32.encourage others to support it. only got 25% of the vote on
:24:32. > :24:37.Thursday. All the polls showed that the voters showed and think you are
:24:37. > :24:42.out of touch, smug and arrogant. Why does the appointment of even more
:24:42. > :24:46.old Etonians to Number ten help counter that impression? I do not
:24:46. > :24:51.think people in this country hold it against people where they happen to
:24:51. > :24:56.go to school. They are more interested in what they are offering
:24:56. > :25:01.for the future. I do not hold it against anybody whether it is people
:25:01. > :25:09.in our piety or Nigel Farage, who went to a public school. I did not,
:25:09. > :25:16.I do not care. Why are there so many old Etonians? Downing Street is like
:25:16. > :25:21.Lord snooty and his pals. It is not like that, I went to a state school.
:25:21. > :25:25.You are not in Downing Street. does everybody so close to the Prime
:25:26. > :25:30.Minister come from exactly the same background? Is that the only place
:25:30. > :25:36.where there is merit in that country? I am in Downing Street
:25:36. > :25:44.every day. They are not in and out. What matters to people is whether we
:25:44. > :25:48.are helping to build a country for hard-working families, it matters if
:25:48. > :25:53.we are controlling immigrating, cutting the deficit, those are the
:25:53. > :25:57.things that matter. They are all things we are making progress on.
:25:57. > :26:01.When the electorate are looking at who to vote for and two to support,
:26:01. > :26:07.who best represents themselves, they will be looking to the party that
:26:07. > :26:11.makes progress in those areas. Which is why it is important we have cut
:26:11. > :26:17.deficit and immigration by a third. We have got new, private-sector
:26:17. > :26:23.jobs. We are making progress. We hear the message from Thursday and
:26:23. > :26:27.we want to make faster progress, but we are on the case. If you believe
:26:27. > :26:33.in small government, lower taxes, grammar schools, eight have line on
:26:33. > :26:42.immigration and law and order and lower fuel bills to high carbon
:26:42. > :26:47.taxes, UKIP is now the natural party. No, we either party that lies
:26:47. > :26:51.awake at night worrying about paying staff, that is the Conservative
:26:51. > :26:58.party, we believe in that entrepreneurial society. Only 25%
:26:58. > :27:03.voted for you. We have to get Thursday into some form of
:27:03. > :27:10.perspective. Well done to UKIP, they did well and those elections. They
:27:11. > :27:16.won less than 150 council seats. We control 18. Let's get this in
:27:16. > :27:21.proportion. We still run 18 councils. On all these issues UKIP
:27:21. > :27:26.are closer to your natural supporters than you are. When you
:27:26. > :27:29.did this rebranding of the Tory party to soothe the attitudes of the
:27:29. > :27:35.Metropolitan chattering classes, did it never occurred to you that you
:27:35. > :27:39.were opening up a huge gap in the market for a populist party to
:27:39. > :27:43.charge through? I do not see that you either have to appeal to only
:27:43. > :27:49.this group or subsection of society, or only this group and you cannot do
:27:49. > :27:56.more than that. In truth and it came out in the interview with Godfrey
:27:56. > :28:00.Bloom, they have a set of policies which are not best thought out and
:28:00. > :28:04.they now campaign against High Speed two. They wanted to build three
:28:04. > :28:10.railways up and down the country. Their section on immigration on the
:28:10. > :28:16.website says this policy is under review. That is what they would now
:28:16. > :28:21.like to say is a major force in politics. Once you are under the
:28:21. > :28:25.kind of proper scrutiny, then we can tease some of these things out. I do
:28:25. > :28:30.not think we should just be appealing to one group or section in
:28:30. > :28:34.society, we should appeal to everyone, everywhere in the UK.
:28:34. > :28:43.you want David Cameron to become a proper Conservative again, you vote
:28:43. > :28:48.UKIP. He is a proper Conservative in the best tradition of the party.
:28:48. > :28:52.are campaigning on things you have never emphasised before. We said in
:28:52. > :28:58.our last manifesto we would cut immigration and we have already cut
:28:58. > :29:03.it by a third. We are making progress. We want to discipline our
:29:03. > :29:07.public finances and we have cut the deficit by a third. We have got more
:29:07. > :29:13.new businesses in this country than ever before. We are making progress
:29:13. > :29:19.and we hear people and we are on it. It is not me you have to convince,
:29:19. > :29:27.it is the voters, and they are not convinced. We have got David Davies
:29:27. > :29:35.back. Somebody must have pulled the plug on you. Jessye Norman, one of
:29:35. > :29:39.your colleagues, also an old Newtonian, is these Etonians have a
:29:39. > :29:45.selfless commitment to public service. I am sure they do and he is
:29:45. > :29:52.a very good example and I am a big fan of him. But the point is not
:29:52. > :29:58.about the individuals. Frankly is not about the education of an
:29:58. > :30:05.individual. The feeling out in the country is allowing the impression
:30:05. > :30:13.to grow that this is a group of people who do not understand their
:30:13. > :30:18.concerns. We have just had the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. She
:30:18. > :30:22.never confined her cabinet to one type and one side of the party. She
:30:22. > :30:28.had William Waldegrave and Chris Patten and so on. There is a feeling
:30:28. > :30:35.out there that this is a narrow base and that is the problem. It is that
:30:35. > :30:43.problem that is feeding the enthusiasm for UKIP. UKIP is about a
:30:43. > :30:53.mindset, not a manifesto. If we do not solve our own problems, we will
:30:53. > :31:07.
:31:07. > :31:11.They cannot be many cabinets with a former coalminer. We have plenty of
:31:11. > :31:16.people who came up through the state school system and understand
:31:16. > :31:19.what it is like to go into business. The country is interested in the
:31:19. > :31:27.ideas and passion people have to improve this country for British
:31:27. > :31:32.people. Conservatives are trying to do that. Thanks for being with us.
:31:32. > :31:35.How did Labour get on? Not as well How did Labour get on? Not as well
:31:35. > :31:40.as they might have hoped. They managed to pick up 291 council
:31:40. > :31:49.seats. That is only winning back the same number of seats they lost
:31:49. > :31:52.in 2009. That was when Gordon Brown was unpopular. It translated into a
:31:52. > :32:02.game in two county councils, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.
:32:02. > :32:14.
:32:14. > :32:16.With hopes of taking Lancashire and Staffordshire given upon. Respected
:32:16. > :32:20.psephologistss Rallings and Thrasher said Labour should have
:32:20. > :32:25.Thrasher said Labour should have won on the basis of recent local
:32:25. > :32:31.won on the basis of recent local government by-election performances.
:32:31. > :32:38.I am joined by a Labour's shadow Justice Secretary. Labour got 29%,
:32:38. > :32:42.which Gordon Brown got in 2010. results in 2010 were full the
:32:42. > :32:49.entire country. On Thursday that was four shire county council
:32:49. > :32:55.elections, not as Scotland, only Anglesey in Wales and none in
:32:55. > :33:02.London all major cities. In it takes that into account. We did a
:33:02. > :33:10.remarkable things in government. We also lost 5 million voters. We lost
:33:10. > :33:15.tens of thousands of members. We lost thousands of activists. We
:33:15. > :33:19.lost councillors. The party was hollowed out. We have started the
:33:19. > :33:25.process of building the party. We have new members, persuading them
:33:25. > :33:33.to become activists. Persuading people to stand for councils in
:33:33. > :33:38.shire elections where historically we have not done very well. All you
:33:38. > :33:45.have done is unravel the losses you suffered in one of the worst nights
:33:45. > :33:51.in Labour history. This is hardly progress. We have to remember. You
:33:51. > :33:54.have to start building. We had no members in some areas. Forget
:33:54. > :34:00.people standing in council elections, we recruited new members.
:34:01. > :34:06.We lost MPs in 2010. We turned members and activists and persuaded
:34:06. > :34:12.them to stand for council elections. We won councillors in seats we have
:34:12. > :34:18.to win in 2015. We did well in Hastings and Harlow and Stevenage.
:34:18. > :34:26.We did well in Carlisle and Crawley and Lincoln. These areas, Sherwood,
:34:26. > :34:33.Amber Valley, which we will have to win back in 2015. You did well in
:34:33. > :34:38.some places. Reasonably well. You still have problems. In huge parts
:34:38. > :34:44.of the South, such as Essex, West Sussex, you did not even come
:34:44. > :34:48.second, you came third. We have respect, in the year since these
:34:48. > :34:55.councils were formed in the south, south-east and eastern, we never
:34:55. > :35:02.ran these councils. I am saying he came third. Look how we did in
:35:02. > :35:07.Harlow and Stevenage. We won seats in Dorset and Cornwall. Shire
:35:07. > :35:12.council elections. In large parts of the South for a so-called One
:35:12. > :35:17.nation party, you came third. out of eight seats in Hastings were
:35:17. > :35:24.won by Labour. People recruited to the party since 2010 and persuaded
:35:24. > :35:29.to stand. You did not do so well in the north. In 1981, you won
:35:29. > :35:35.Lancashire, Staffordshire, Cumbria. That was under Michael Foot. You
:35:35. > :35:40.did not win any of them. They are different boundaries. If the lesson
:35:40. > :35:43.you are teaching me is that it is good to have superficial victories
:35:43. > :35:48.in county council elections, that is not true, it does not mean we
:35:48. > :35:51.will do well in the general election. We have to make sure we
:35:51. > :35:57.have people understand we have new policies so that we can persuade
:35:57. > :36:05.them to trust us in 2015. Look at where we needed to do well. We did
:36:06. > :36:12.well in targets where we wanted to win. To have 291 games we are
:36:12. > :36:17.pleased with. Ed Miliband said the centre is moving left and he is
:36:17. > :36:22.work -- he is moving with it. If you look at the share of the vote,
:36:22. > :36:27.it is moving right. It shows that under Ed Miliband you are out-of-
:36:27. > :36:35.touch with public opinion. We have opinion polls say we are ten points
:36:35. > :36:42.ahead. The UKIP vote was not just against Europe. There were no
:36:42. > :36:46.elections in Scotland, Wales and London. I accept we must do better.
:36:46. > :36:51.But the reason people voted for UKIP was because they think
:36:51. > :36:55.politicians do not have the answer to the problems they face. They can
:36:55. > :37:00.see that living standards are going down and wages are not rising as
:37:00. > :37:04.fast. We have the challenge to persuade people who votes that we
:37:04. > :37:08.can make a positive difference to their life. I think that Ed
:37:08. > :37:13.Miliband has shown he can do that. Can you clarify the Labour
:37:13. > :37:22.position? Am I right in thinking you will not offer a referendum on
:37:22. > :37:32.Europe in the next election? would not say in advance. We do
:37:32. > :37:32.
:37:32. > :37:39.offer a referendum between now and the next election? It is not my job.
:37:40. > :37:45.I can say in made 2013 we will not promise a referendum in 2017.
:37:45. > :37:52.not talking about 2017. I am asking if you will offer a referendum
:37:52. > :37:58.between now and the general election. Above my pay grade. I can
:37:58. > :38:04.tell you our policy. I cannot tell you what is in the manifesto. It is
:38:04. > :38:08.foolish for Alex Salmond, in advance of a referendum on
:38:08. > :38:18.independence in Scotland, to say he would do that. It would lead to
:38:18. > :38:20.
:38:20. > :38:24.uncertainty. It is madness. Banks are joining us. -- thanks. Coming
:38:24. > :38:34.up in 20 minutes, I will look at the week ahead with the political
:38:34. > :38:42.
:38:42. > :38:46.panel. Until then, Sunday Politics Welcome. Coming up later in the
:38:46. > :38:50.programme, and as the highest court in the land finds the Government
:38:50. > :38:54.guilty of failing to meet air quality standards, we put their
:38:54. > :39:01.record and Labour's in the dock. Joining us for the show, Siobhain
:39:01. > :39:07.McDonagh, Labour MP for Mitcham and Morden and former member of the
:39:07. > :39:12.London Regional Select Committee. And Bob Neill, for Chislehurst. How
:39:12. > :39:17.do you account for the poor showing in the local elections? It is
:39:17. > :39:21.disappointing. It is a regular occurrence for there to be setbacks
:39:21. > :39:27.the governing party's mid-term. In this case, two parties in coalition
:39:27. > :39:35.Government. We and the Liberal Democrats will suffer losses. It
:39:35. > :39:41.could have been worse. We were starting from an almost historic
:39:41. > :39:45.high a. Although we lost some ground, what is interesting is that
:39:45. > :39:49.although Labour recovered, they did not get back to where they were.
:39:49. > :39:54.The ease are the areas where you should do well, even mid-term. You
:39:54. > :40:01.made losses in every county around London. It was not a job done well,
:40:01. > :40:07.even regarding the previous results. You expect a setback at this time.
:40:07. > :40:11.It is less than we have seen governing parties suffered. That is
:40:11. > :40:16.during the premiership of Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair. In Essex,
:40:16. > :40:20.we have four times as many councillors as any other party.
:40:20. > :40:24.best Labour can do is come second in one of these councils. Not the
:40:24. > :40:29.big breakthrough. We have not controlled most of these councils
:40:29. > :40:34.in the 40 years they have existed. This is not traditional Labour
:40:34. > :40:38.territory. In parliamentary seats we need to win to get near
:40:38. > :40:44.government, in Crawley, in Stevenage, in Hastings, those
:40:44. > :40:48.places where we want to make progress, we have. Tony Blair said
:40:48. > :40:54.there were no no-go areas for Labour before he became Prime
:40:54. > :41:01.Minister. These are areas where you must make ground if Ed Miliband has
:41:01. > :41:05.chance becoming Prime Minister. some of these areas. In 1997, we
:41:05. > :41:11.actually lost this set of elections, even though we had the majority in
:41:11. > :41:16.parliament. Some of these we can expect to do well in and we did. In
:41:16. > :41:22.others, it is more of a struggle. These elections are likely to be
:41:22. > :41:27.remembered for one thing only. The rise of UKIP. Where is that journey
:41:27. > :41:31.going to end? Victory on the borders of London are one thing,
:41:31. > :41:39.can Nigel Farage's troops take the capital when London has its
:41:39. > :41:44.elections next year? There is -- they are a long way
:41:44. > :41:46.from being the biggest party on from being the biggest party on
:41:46. > :41:54.London's borders. UKIP are now the second party in Buckinghamshire
:41:54. > :41:58.where they gain 6. The Tories lost the same number. In Essex, they are
:41:58. > :42:03.the joint second largest party. In Surrey they found themselves with
:42:03. > :42:08.more seats than any other party. Hertfordshire was less successful.
:42:08. > :42:09.They did not win a single seat. In They did not win a single seat. In
:42:09. > :42:16.Kent, they saw the most impressive Kent, they saw the most impressive
:42:16. > :42:20.result, winning 17 more than in the previous election. They will be the
:42:20. > :42:29.official opposition. The UKIP vote has shown there is an element of
:42:29. > :42:35.protest. Somewhat larger than I expected. UKIP are not the first
:42:35. > :42:42.small party to win lots of votes. We have toppled one of the safest
:42:42. > :42:48.Tory seats in the country. We are giving a scare to the Government.
:42:48. > :42:53.In the 1980s, the SDP were often said to have made a breakthrough.
:42:54. > :43:03.They won a quarter of the vote in the general election. The Green
:43:03. > :43:07.Party came third with 15% of the vote. And BNP managed 1 million
:43:08. > :43:12.votes in 2009 European poll. What can we expect in the local
:43:12. > :43:17.elections in London? Is it is worth remembering that the outer boroughs
:43:17. > :43:26.of London, particularly in the east, are not unlike the counties just
:43:26. > :43:30.outside, they share the same postal designation. Havering and Bexley
:43:30. > :43:35.are not as different from Essex and Kent as inner London boroughs might
:43:35. > :43:45.be compared with hot for sure. I think we can learn something --
:43:45. > :43:54.Hertfordshire. The fact that London will be immune from this rise of
:43:54. > :43:58.UKIP is unlikely. For many voters this week, it made complete sense.
:43:58. > :44:02.The phrase Basildon man has been synonymous in political terms with
:44:02. > :44:07.the bellwether seat with the way the constituency voting is almost
:44:07. > :44:14.always the way the country votes. I am joined by Councillor Kerry Smith,
:44:14. > :44:20.newly elected UKIP councillor for Basildon. One of nine in New
:44:20. > :44:26.councillors for UKIP in Essex. UKIP do not control a council. 20% of
:44:26. > :44:31.the voting Kent. You are still a small party. We are on the march.
:44:31. > :44:35.In your P's earlier, raising the issue of the London elections being
:44:35. > :44:41.possibly the same day as the European elections, I think UKIP
:44:41. > :44:46.has a chance of grabbing many councils. What about a council
:44:46. > :44:51.itself? Will have to show people we can to a good job as a local
:44:51. > :44:56.councillor. You have no experience? You have to learn to call before
:44:56. > :45:01.you walk. If we do not demonstrate we can do a good job as a local
:45:01. > :45:05.councillor, why would they elect us to run their council? Small parties
:45:05. > :45:12.have their moments in the sun. You could argue this is it for UKIP.
:45:12. > :45:20.You predict marching on London. Is it anything more than a protest
:45:20. > :45:23.vote? Not at all. The protest vote is a one-off and that is it. 2004,
:45:23. > :45:30.we won a few councillors on the same day as the European elections
:45:30. > :45:37.and that was repeated in 2009. Lastly, we won several elections in
:45:37. > :45:45.Essex. We wit macro a Conservative seat on the Billericay Town Council
:45:45. > :45:50.-- we brick macro. It is the local things not being addressed. My
:45:50. > :46:00.colleague who won a safe Conservative seat. People wanted
:46:00. > :46:13.
:46:13. > :46:23.someone to speak up about over- national things, job security and
:46:23. > :46:25.
:46:25. > :46:28.their future. It is not about Europe. In fairness it is the senior
:46:28. > :46:38.politicians. I do not think anyone would describe me as a senior
:46:38. > :46:39.
:46:39. > :46:45.politician. There is research that 60% of people who voted for UKIP say
:46:45. > :46:54.they are not happy with the major parties. I got elected on several
:46:54. > :47:04.issues in my division. There are people, regardless of how they vote,
:47:04. > :47:07.saying save the area. I was elected partly to save the area.
:47:08. > :47:15.Congratulation's as well. You do not want to call him a fruitcake or a
:47:15. > :47:22.loony? I do not think calling names is the answer. Now people are in
:47:22. > :47:25.elected posts they will be subject to the same degree of rigorous
:47:25. > :47:30.scrutiny as all other politicians. It will become pretty clear that the
:47:30. > :47:36.real issue that worries people is not just Europe, it is the cost of
:47:36. > :47:40.living, the economy, like getting welfare right were generally I found
:47:40. > :47:48.people thought the government was doing the wrong thing. -- the right
:47:48. > :47:54.thing. But you have got a big gap in what you will do with the economy.
:47:54. > :47:59.Our view is leaving the EU we can deregulate the economy and to make
:48:00. > :48:05.this country a driving force for growth. Would you be in favour of a
:48:05. > :48:09.mandate referendum on the EU in this parliament? We have to be a
:48:09. > :48:14.realistic because there would not be a majority in the house of commons
:48:14. > :48:18.to deliver the primary legislation. Because of the Liberal Democrats.
:48:19. > :48:22.Many of your colleagues have said they would be in favour of having
:48:22. > :48:28.that legislation put forward and put it to the Liberal Democrats to see
:48:28. > :48:33.what happens. You have to be careful about promising things that cannot
:48:33. > :48:38.be realistically delivered. We will be campaigning on the basis that at
:48:38. > :48:43.the next general election there will be a choice between who runs the
:48:43. > :48:47.government, David Cameron or Ed Miliband, and we will offer a
:48:47. > :48:52.referendum on a renegotiated basis, so people will know what they are
:48:52. > :48:57.voting about before they get the referendum. You should pull the
:48:57. > :49:01.tales of the Lib Dems. They have often promised to give people a
:49:01. > :49:05.referendum. You can get all their old leaflets and say to them, we are
:49:05. > :49:12.going to have this vote on leaving the EU, you have promised dead, "
:49:12. > :49:16.story. I am totally in agreement, the Lib Dems on a number of issues
:49:16. > :49:22.have not kept their promises, but we have formed a government in the
:49:22. > :49:27.national interest and we inherited an appalling financial situation
:49:27. > :49:34.from Labour. The first task for the government is to sort out the
:49:34. > :49:39.financial mess and then hopefully with a Conservative majority at the
:49:39. > :49:46.general election we will go in for a referendum. Are you happy with
:49:46. > :49:52.Labour's position on welfare? Welfare is a complex issue, it is a
:49:52. > :49:59.mask for people's concern about the future, jobs and how we spend money.
:49:59. > :50:03.Has Ed Miliband been clear about the policy on welfare? Our welfare
:50:04. > :50:08.policy is evolving. Nobody is suggesting that as it is now it is
:50:08. > :50:13.absolutely right. Every big project has to constantly be under review
:50:13. > :50:19.and looked at. Is Ed Miliband an asset to the party? He is doing
:50:19. > :50:24.fine, he has made progress. We would have liked to have done better, but
:50:24. > :50:29.we are making progress. That does not sound like an endorsement to say
:50:29. > :50:35.he is doing fine. Is he doing well enough at this stage bearing in mind
:50:35. > :50:40.the recession we have had and where the economy is? I think he is doing
:50:40. > :50:46.extraordinary -- extraordinarily well. He has bounced back incredibly
:50:46. > :50:49.quickly after the last election. he could not win Lancashire or
:50:49. > :50:55.Staffordshire, or Cumbria. Those are really major failures on Labour's
:50:55. > :51:00.part. We got the largest share of the vote in parts of the country
:51:00. > :51:07.which were not unnaturally our own. It was less than Michael foot caught
:51:07. > :51:11.in the equivalent elections when he was leader of the party. Nigel
:51:11. > :51:17.Farage has been on the airwaves saying he is going to contest the
:51:17. > :51:21.seat in 2015. Are you worried it might be yours? I am very happy to
:51:21. > :51:24.take on anyone in Bromley and Chislehurst. I would be straight to
:51:24. > :51:31.people about the real issues that are confronting people in this
:51:31. > :51:36.country, the issues of immigration and giving people a vote on a
:51:36. > :51:39.renegotiated sensible alternative as to what we do to Europe. The last
:51:39. > :51:49.time we had county council elections, you did not win any
:51:49. > :51:49.
:51:49. > :51:57.seats. We have just won a council election with a real big result.
:51:57. > :52:04.well are you going to do? Anything up to 50 to 100 UKIP borough
:52:04. > :52:10.councillors in London. I think he is being optimistic. If you fix the
:52:10. > :52:17.economy, you will be right? I was in Swanley yesterday and that is a very
:52:17. > :52:23.similar demographic and the Conservatives won that seat, so it
:52:23. > :52:28.does not automatically reach across. Time will tell. The days of the
:52:28. > :52:33.pea-soupers air quality in the UK has been a concern. Now Britain's
:52:33. > :52:37.air has been illegal. The worst offender is London. The case will be
:52:37. > :52:42.referred to the European court for a final ruling which could result in a
:52:42. > :52:52.swingeing fine for the UK government. Has enough been done to
:52:52. > :52:53.
:52:53. > :52:59.clean up our act? # or I need is the air that I breathe. Dash-mac
:52:59. > :53:02.nitrogen dioxide in our area, this polluter is behind premature deaths
:53:02. > :53:10.of over 4000 Londoners every year and according to the Supreme Court
:53:10. > :53:15.it is so bad, the government is breaking EU laws. It is Boris
:53:15. > :53:19.Johnson's responsibility to lead the charge on the air quality. He is
:53:19. > :53:25.doing a lot to address it, such as a huge package of measures like
:53:25. > :53:32.refitting the buses, refitting buildings so that boiler emissions
:53:32. > :53:38.go down. But opponents do not think he is doing enough and soon enough.
:53:38. > :53:42.He has failed to take tough action, he has talked about a future,
:53:42. > :53:48.ultra-low emission zone, but he is only going to see if it is feasible
:53:48. > :53:52.for 2020, that is far too late. The first targets that were set were
:53:52. > :54:00.approved by the previous government. But years on, London is still
:54:00. > :54:06.waiting for it. Joining me is Alan Andrews. How
:54:06. > :54:11.important was the ruling this week? It was hugely important in our first
:54:11. > :54:16.step for cleaner air. For the first time we have a national court saying
:54:16. > :54:19.that the government is breaking the law. It has two put enormous
:54:20. > :54:25.pressure on the government to come forward with an ambitious plan to
:54:25. > :54:33.tackle this problem because it is killing people. 4300 deaths in
:54:33. > :54:38.London alone. Are you proud of the fact you have had to go through this
:54:38. > :54:42.process and have these figures highlighted. The government has
:54:42. > :54:47.failed? The government has spent a great deal of money on tackling this
:54:47. > :54:53.issue. We should take it very seriously. But it is also worth
:54:53. > :54:58.remembering that out of the 27 EU member states, 22 are on a broadly
:54:58. > :55:03.similar position to the EU. We are meeting the targets both daily and
:55:03. > :55:09.annually, but there is an issue about nitrogen oxide. That is the
:55:09. > :55:12.thing that is killing people. put the British situation in context
:55:12. > :55:18.with the rest of the EU in particular we have all got to
:55:18. > :55:25.redouble our efforts on this. We have invested over �1 billion since
:55:25. > :55:30.the election. Does that satisfy you? No, the coalition government have
:55:30. > :55:34.not come forward with any new policies. Yes, this is an EU wide
:55:34. > :55:43.problem, but London is the worst polluted in terms of nitrogen
:55:43. > :55:49.dioxide, worst polluted capital city in the EU. The anticipation is that
:55:49. > :55:54.London's compliance time is broadly on the same trajectory as Paris.
:55:54. > :55:59.Boris Johnson has got a lot to do on that. That is putting it into
:55:59. > :56:03.context. These standards were imposed under a Labour government,
:56:03. > :56:12.but the first target was breached within weeks. Why was it not
:56:12. > :56:18.addressed them? Even for me as a London MP he it has never been top
:56:18. > :56:22.of my list or my understanding. I cannot believe it is the second
:56:22. > :56:29.biggest public health issue and more people die prematurely from this
:56:29. > :56:35.than from road traffic accidents, alcohol and obesity. Twice as many.
:56:35. > :56:40.Should it be a much greater concern? Absolutely. Isn't a mile Burn high
:56:40. > :56:45.street like the fourth worst place in Europe? It is worst in the
:56:45. > :56:49.capital city in the EU. Putney high Street and Brixton Road in Lambeth
:56:49. > :56:57.are three and four times the legal limits. Do you think it helped that
:56:57. > :57:06.the Western extension zone was scrapped? It was extremely
:57:06. > :57:10.unpopular. But you have also got to look at the raft of other impacts.
:57:10. > :57:14.Part of the reason we do not sort this out is because we do not see it
:57:14. > :57:20.physically and it tends to affect poor people in poorer parts of
:57:20. > :57:24.London, so it is not the top of anybody's list. It is a bit of that,
:57:24. > :57:31.but we got rid of the Western extension, but we have now got the
:57:31. > :57:36.largest hybrid bus fleet in Europe. Put hefty fines be on the horizon?
:57:36. > :57:41.Potentially. The last thing anything warns including as is for the UK
:57:41. > :57:47.taxpayer to have two pay for fines. The process we are going through now
:57:47. > :57:54.will not result in fines. This is the European Court deciding on legal
:57:54. > :57:57.questions, namely is compliance by 2015 necessary? It would then come
:57:57. > :58:04.back to the UK Supreme Court which could order the government to come
:58:04. > :58:14.up with a new plan, but not fines. It is time for a look at the rest of
:58:14. > :58:14.
:58:14. > :58:18.the political news in 60 seconds. Is London going Dutch? Trials in
:58:18. > :58:22.Berkshire have been taking place for roundabouts like those seen in the
:58:22. > :58:29.Netherlands that separate cyclists from other traffic. City Hall say
:58:29. > :58:34.they could be seen in the capital by 2014. Councillor Brian Coleman, the
:58:34. > :58:37.former Maher of Beynon, and boss of the London Fire Brigade, has
:58:37. > :58:45.admitted a charge of common assault following an incident in Finchley
:58:45. > :58:49.highroad. He was ordered to pay over �1000 in fines and costs. London's
:58:49. > :58:54.airports are not running at full capacity, that is the verdict of the
:58:54. > :59:02.London Assembly who found all of London's runways are underused with
:59:02. > :59:05.about half at Luton and Stansted not be used at all. NHS bosses in London
:59:05. > :59:09.published their preferred option for Southwest London Healthcare with St
:59:09. > :59:19.Helier and Epsom Hospital is set to lose that accident and maternity
:59:19. > :59:22.
:59:22. > :59:27.units. Let's pick up on that last issue, something close to your
:59:27. > :59:32.constituents' hearts. Did you think St Helier's was off the hook?
:59:32. > :59:39.was never off the hook, but the plans are even worse. They are going
:59:39. > :59:46.to leave us with a walk in centre. 3600 babies were born there, this is
:59:46. > :59:51.not a small place. Those people are now going to be in ambulances and
:59:51. > :59:57.cars trying to get to St George 's in tooting or Croydon University. It
:59:57. > :00:01.is a plan that is devastating. Health professionals quite often say
:00:01. > :00:06.that adding a few minutes to your journey if you are going to a
:00:06. > :00:13.specialist centre might improve your outcome. We are talking about
:00:13. > :00:18.volumes. We are talking about 90,000 people who turned up. They admitted
:00:18. > :00:23.25% of those people. These are not people making irrational decisions.
:00:23. > :00:26.Is money being put into the other hospitals who are going to have to
:00:26. > :00:33.absorb the tens of thousands of people who are no longer be going to
:00:33. > :00:38.St Helier's. We have had a similar exercise in relation to what
:00:38. > :00:43.happened in Bromley and Lewisham hospitals. There is a commitment to
:00:43. > :00:47.investment and it is important we have that. And in Croydon hospital?
:00:47. > :00:53.Your conservative colleague is very worried about how that hospital is
:00:53. > :01:01.going to cope. I took that up with the Department in relation to the
:01:01. > :01:05.princess was at Bromley. I defy anybody to go on to St George 's in
:01:05. > :01:13.tooting and understand where you are going to take tens of thousands of
:01:13. > :01:20.people and be able to treat them. it possible? You raised the point
:01:20. > :01:25.which is we also have to bear in mind that in the planned around
:01:25. > :01:30.Lewisham and South East London, the healthcare professionals were saying
:01:30. > :01:40.strongly that you need these specialist units. Now it is back to
:01:40. > :01:55.
:01:55. > :01:59.Nigel Evans a deputy speaker said allegations of rape and sexual
:01:59. > :02:05.assault against him are untrue. He was released on bail after being
:02:05. > :02:09.questioned by police. Nigel Evans, who was questioned
:02:09. > :02:13.until last night by police, emerge from his home to make this
:02:13. > :02:18.statement. Yesterday, I was interviewed concerning two
:02:18. > :02:24.complaints, one of which dates back four years, made by two people well
:02:24. > :02:28.known to each other. And who until yesterday I regarded as friends.
:02:28. > :02:33.The complaints are completely untrue. I cannot understand why
:02:33. > :02:38.they have been made, especially as I have continued to socialise with
:02:38. > :02:42.one as recently as last week. was arrested in Lancashire
:02:42. > :02:46.yesterday, questioned on suspicion of rape and sexual assault. The
:02:46. > :02:53.alleged victims are said to be men in their twenties. He was released
:02:53. > :02:58.on bail. Nigel Evans was elected as MP for Ribble Valley. He is popular
:02:58. > :03:03.with fellow MPs and was elected as a deputy speaker in 2010. In the
:03:03. > :03:09.same year, he came out as gay, saying he did not want to live a
:03:09. > :03:14.lie. Philip Hammond said a decision must be made about his future. We
:03:14. > :03:19.should treat people as innocent until they are proven guilty.
:03:19. > :03:24.difficult to carry out a sensitive and high-profile role by being --
:03:24. > :03:29.while being under scrutiny. He said he would not be standing down as a
:03:29. > :03:33.deputy speaker and said it would be bits -- business as usual.
:03:33. > :03:38.The chairman of the BBC Trust has rejected calls for a separate
:03:38. > :03:44.inquiry into the activities of Stuart Hall at the BBC. Stuart Hall,
:03:44. > :03:49.a former presenter and news reader, admitted indecently assaulting
:03:49. > :03:53.girls in the 1960s up to the 1980s. Lord Patten said concerns about his
:03:53. > :04:01.behaviour can be dealt with by an inquiry being carried out for the
:04:01. > :04:05.BBC by a senior lawyer. Plainly, there was something about celebrity
:04:05. > :04:09.culture in the Sixties up to the Eighties which meant that people
:04:09. > :04:14.were prepared apparently to turn a blind eye to behaviour that was not
:04:14. > :04:18.just eccentric but thoroughly unpleasant. So eerie and state
:04:18. > :04:25.television claims a scientific research centre near Damascus has
:04:25. > :04:31.been hit by an Israeli missile strike -- in Syria. We can speak to
:04:31. > :04:37.our Middle East correspondent. What more do we know?
:04:37. > :04:44.There is little hard information. What we can say is that there was
:04:44. > :04:51.an enormous explosion close to Damascus. That is shown in footage
:04:51. > :05:00.posted on the internet by activists. The question is what was hit. The
:05:00. > :05:05.Syrian regime said it is what it calls a research institute.
:05:05. > :05:11.Hezbollah's TV station, allied to Syria, said that three targets were
:05:11. > :05:16.hit. Military barracks, some kind of arms depot, and air defence unit.
:05:16. > :05:23.That would be surprising. Israel made it clear it did not want to
:05:23. > :05:27.get embroiled in the Syrian conflict. It wants arms not handed
:05:27. > :05:32.over all passed through Syria, coming from Iran. What it is saying
:05:32. > :05:36.of the record is that it is going for rockets and missiles that
:05:36. > :05:43.Iranians or Syrians want to pass to Hezbollah. We are in the dark as to
:05:43. > :05:48.what was hit. There has been a film on has bowler TV showing target
:05:48. > :05:53.areas, including a chicken farm and installations not showing clearly.
:05:53. > :06:02.It is a major development and a dangerous one.
:06:02. > :06:05.That is the news. There will be more on BBC One at 6:35pm.
:06:06. > :06:15.Where next for the political parties? What does the Queen's
:06:16. > :06:16.
:06:16. > :06:21.Speech have in store? These are questions for the week ahead. We
:06:21. > :06:25.have had the criticism of David Davis about Old Etonians in Downing
:06:25. > :06:29.Street. The Labour MP Graham Stringer said Labour's performance
:06:29. > :06:36.was not good enough and said that too many shadow cabinet members
:06:36. > :06:40.have never been in the real world. It is the same criticism. It is a
:06:40. > :06:45.criticism that you have not had a proper job. The parties have this,
:06:45. > :06:49.you come up from being a special adviser. You become an MP very
:06:50. > :06:56.young and party leader very young. There is a different flavour around
:06:56. > :07:04.Ed Miliband, there is a primrose Hill feel to him rather than the
:07:04. > :07:13.shire. The ad explains the rise of UKIP. A cry against political
:07:13. > :07:16.careerists. It is difficult to identify with someone who has lived
:07:16. > :07:25.a narrow life and career. What is impressive about UKIP on Thursday
:07:25. > :07:29.was not the overall share of vote, but the geographical spread. To
:07:29. > :07:39.finish second in South Shields, which is so far removed from the
:07:39. > :07:40.
:07:40. > :07:45.southern heartland of this Conservatives -- the Conservatives.
:07:45. > :07:49.UKIP could emerge as the main centre-right party in the north.
:07:49. > :07:54.Nigel Farage comes from the public school background. He was a
:07:54. > :07:58.stockbroker. He went to a successful public school. He did
:07:58. > :08:05.not go to Oxford or Cambridge. He did not enter the special adviser
:08:06. > :08:10.role, become an MP. He would not like this because the UK
:08:10. > :08:14.Independence Party wants us out of the European Union, but UKIP is
:08:14. > :08:18.part of the European phenomenon. We are going through this horrendous
:08:18. > :08:23.recession and it is taking a long time to recover. What happens when
:08:23. > :08:27.you do not have proper economic growth? You have populist movements.
:08:27. > :08:33.There is a comedian in Italy and the National Front in France. They
:08:33. > :08:36.have different policy platforms. But they are populist and anti-
:08:36. > :08:43.establishment. They will continue to do well as long as we struggle
:08:43. > :08:47.to recover. UKIP are clearly taking more from the Conservatives than
:08:47. > :08:52.anybody else. Lynton Crosby is going to be the Tory election
:08:52. > :08:59.strategist. He said, get the barnacles of the boat. I think he
:08:59. > :09:03.means ditched the policies that interfere with the Tory core
:09:03. > :09:10.message. At the Queen's Speech I put it to you we will see on
:09:10. > :09:14.immigration, welfare, and other things, the influence of UKIP.
:09:14. > :09:17.is a reaction against the modernisation of the Conservative
:09:17. > :09:22.party that took place in the first three years of David Cameron's
:09:22. > :09:26.leadership. Number 10 is conscious they need heart lifting, positive
:09:26. > :09:31.central messages to go with that stuff. In the Queen's Speech this
:09:31. > :09:35.week, we will see that and also, for example, the Gay Marriage Bill,
:09:35. > :09:40.which they are so keen on because of the political symbolism. They
:09:40. > :09:44.know it does not matter a huge amount to most people, but it is a
:09:44. > :09:54.corrective for those things on welfare, immigration and crime. The
:09:54. > :10:01.other thing the Prime Minister needs to be wary of is that a UKIP
:10:01. > :10:06.oriented campaign has been tried before. They should not swing too
:10:06. > :10:12.far in the opposite direction. pick to a senior Tory who said the
:10:12. > :10:17.danger of following the letter ran -- I spoke to a senior Tory, he
:10:17. > :10:21.said that following UKIP, is like following the crocodile until it
:10:21. > :10:27.has even you. The most interesting contribution was William Hague in
:10:27. > :10:32.the Sunday Telegraph. He said there are no quick-fix solutions. He
:10:32. > :10:36.tried it in 2001. It did not work. He wrote that. Do we see that on
:10:36. > :10:41.the front page of the Sunday Telegraph? No, because the centre
:10:41. > :10:44.right papers want to push that the Conservative Party needs to be like
:10:44. > :10:50.UKIP. The Conservative Party say they will be careful of that and
:10:50. > :10:55.they put it on page 2. We saw examples of where the answers are
:10:55. > :11:05.less than clear. Grant Shapps could not tell me if they would back a
:11:05. > :11:11.
:11:11. > :11:15.backbench bill for a mandate referendum. And Labour could not
:11:15. > :11:20.tell me. And Nigel Farage cannot come up with an answer to the
:11:20. > :11:25.budget shortfall. They do not have an immigration policy. People voted
:11:25. > :11:32.for UKIP on an immigration policy that does not exist. As they get
:11:32. > :11:42.scrutiny, more holes will appear. They are a culture war kind of
:11:42. > :11:46.
:11:46. > :11:56.party. He will die out first, the Liberal Democrats or the boys?
:11:56. > :11:58.
:11:58. > :12:03.bees. They are the same colour. I think they will come back. Their
:12:03. > :12:10.strategy can only be to hold on. They need to fight 60 by-elections.
:12:10. > :12:17.If they do that and hold on to most seats, they would have done well.
:12:17. > :12:23.They are cockroaches as somebody famously said. They do well in
:12:23. > :12:29.areas where they are established. It has to be a bunker strategy.
:12:29. > :12:34.Very defensive. South Shiels was not representative. In the heart of
:12:34. > :12:42.Sheffield, the constituency of Nick Clegg, they hung on to a council
:12:42. > :12:46.seat. That intensity -- tenacity comes more natural to them than
:12:46. > :12:51.Labour or the Conservatives. Liberal Democrats. Any kind of
:12:51. > :12:57.support for a mandate red but -- mandate referendum. They will not
:12:57. > :13:02.agree to it in this Parliament. Which is why the strange signal by
:13:02. > :13:05.grave shops. Off the record, if a Conservative MP in the ballot for
:13:05. > :13:10.the Private Member's Bill, if they were to come high in the ballot and
:13:10. > :13:14.they were to say they would like a Bill introducing a referendum, the
:13:14. > :13:22.Tory leadership might support that. The Liberal Democrats are saying no
:13:22. > :13:26.to that. It is probably good for both parties because they are
:13:26. > :13:36.looking down the lens at the election and need to differentiate
:13:36. > :13:38.
:13:38. > :13:42.themselves. Godfrey Bloom said you kip will -- UKIP will win. As bad
:13:42. > :13:46.as last week was, it will be nothing compared to next May. If
:13:46. > :13:50.they win, you can imagine the pressure on David Cameron from the
:13:50. > :13:58.right of his party to make concessions in their direction.
:13:58. > :14:02.a big problem for Nick Clegg. UKIP win, the point about the
:14:02. > :14:08.Conservatives party, it's panic or complacency. They will go into
:14:08. > :14:18.panic mode if UKIP win at the European elections. It was said
:14:18. > :14:22.today they will give a political earthquake. That is it. No daily