:00:42. > :00:47.Sunday Politics. It was billed as Labour's big week - the moment when
:00:47. > :00:50.Ed Miliband reset his party's policy on the economy. So, has his proposed
:00:50. > :00:55.cap on welfare spending and promise to stick to Tory spending plans done
:00:55. > :00:58.the business? The Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls joins us live.
:00:58. > :01:03.Another senior MP is caught up in yet more cash for access
:01:03. > :01:05.allegations. This time it's Conservative Grandee Tim Yeo, caught
:01:05. > :01:10.on tape promising undercover journalists how he could help
:01:10. > :01:18.further the interests of their mythical solar power company. He
:01:18. > :01:20.denies he's broken any rules. And protests this week in leafy
:01:20. > :01:27.Hertfordshire as the global heavyweights of politics, business
:01:27. > :01:31.and the military meet behind closed in a luxury hotel near Watford.
:01:31. > :01:36.David Cameron was there. So was Ed Balls, and the bosses of Google and
:01:36. > :01:43.Yahoo. We'll discuss the conspiracy theories and the reality of the
:01:43. > :01:47.Bilderberg Group. In London this week we reveal the
:01:47. > :01:57.council where a quarter of elected members have at some stage been
:01:57. > :02:07.
:02:07. > :02:09.summonsed for not paying their government's top secret programme
:02:09. > :02:11.for intercepting digital communications. And with me, a
:02:12. > :02:14.political panel whose highly sensitive emails must surely be on
:02:14. > :02:17.the security service's hit-list. Yes, it's the Guardian's Nick Watt,
:02:17. > :02:23.Janan Ganesh of the Financial Times, and Helen Lewis from the New
:02:24. > :02:28.Statesman. So, another Sunday, another senior politician caught up
:02:28. > :02:33.in a newspaper lobbying sting. You would think they would get the hang
:02:33. > :02:36.of it by now. Tory MP Tim Yeo - who chairs the Commons Energy and
:02:36. > :02:39.Climate Change Committee and makes considerable sums on the side from
:02:39. > :02:42.various renewable energy interests - was secretly filmed by Sunday Times
:02:42. > :02:44.journalists. They say he offered to use his position to promote the
:02:44. > :02:48.interests of a fictitious solar power company in Parliament and
:02:48. > :02:51.Government. They also report him claiming he coached the boss of
:02:51. > :02:57.another firm, owned by a company of which he's a director, before the
:02:57. > :03:07.businessman gave evidence to his energy committee. Mr Yeo denies he's
:03:07. > :03:07.
:03:07. > :03:55.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 48 seconds
:03:55. > :03:59.done anything wrong. Here's some of Earlier this morning Tim Yeo agreed
:03:59. > :04:05.to do a live interview with us, but in the last hour he pulled out. In
:04:05. > :04:13.fact he has also cancelled an interview with Sky. My political
:04:13. > :04:17.panel never lets me down because they need the money. How does this
:04:17. > :04:24.work? This is one of the more interesting lobby scandals. Last
:04:24. > :04:28.week we had one which damaged seemingly the Tory rights because
:04:28. > :04:34.the proposed perpetrator was Patrick Mercer, a Tory rebel. This week it
:04:34. > :04:37.is Tim Yeo, who has always been seen as being on the wet end of the
:04:37. > :04:42.Conservative party, an advocate of dealing with climate change using
:04:42. > :04:47.Government policy. It is revealing the fictitious company in question
:04:47. > :04:53.dealt in solar panels. I don't think many right-wing Tory backbenchers
:04:53. > :04:58.will be devastated at his fall. before this sting, there were many
:04:58. > :05:03.people who thought he was hopelessly compromised anyway. His job is to
:05:03. > :05:09.push renewable energy. It pushes the green agenda, doesn't claim to be
:05:09. > :05:15.objective in these matters. He is involved in various companies that
:05:15. > :05:18.push renewables and has earned over half �1 million since 2010 from
:05:18. > :05:26.these companies. Many people watching this will think regardless
:05:26. > :05:31.of the sting that he is hopelessly compromised. Yes, there is what is
:05:31. > :05:36.known as the Daily Mail test. They should probably apply the Sunday
:05:36. > :05:42.Times test of how this looks. Everything he has done is probably
:05:42. > :05:48.perfectly legal but it stinks. interesting the Commons has allowed
:05:48. > :05:52.this to happen because I suggest to you, supposing the chairman of the
:05:52. > :05:56.select committee, a committee that deals with the economy and banking
:05:56. > :06:01.in the city, supposing the chairman of that committee was also a
:06:01. > :06:11.director of Goldman Sachs, what would we say? We would have a
:06:11. > :06:11.
:06:11. > :06:17.problem. If Andrew Tyrie was doing that, and I think this is different
:06:17. > :06:22.to the previous cases because we have felt they were slightly like
:06:22. > :06:30.taxis for hire. I will table some questions for you. Where is Tim Yeo
:06:30. > :06:34.works at a slightly more elevated level. He is not a taxi for higher.
:06:34. > :06:39.He is a limo! He has consultancy with companies linked to that
:06:39. > :06:42.committee and it goes to this point that you say, how can you be
:06:42. > :06:50.chairman of the committee and have interests in the renewables sector
:06:50. > :06:53.which will grow and grow? Tim Yeo would say all of my directorships
:06:53. > :06:58.are public knowledge and you will be able to tell everyone how much I
:06:58. > :07:03.earn from them, but I think viewers and those outside the Westminster
:07:03. > :07:07.bubble will say I don't care whether it is public or not. For the
:07:07. > :07:15.committee you chair to be directly aligned with interests that benefit
:07:15. > :07:22.you financially is not right. thought from the MP expenses
:07:22. > :07:27.scandal, everything can still be technically within the law and still
:07:27. > :07:34.morally shocking. It has taken half a decade and you still have MPs
:07:34. > :07:44.making those mistakes. The whole backlash against back to basic ten
:07:44. > :07:45.
:07:45. > :07:49.years ago, it was much more personal scandal. It should technically be OK
:07:49. > :07:55.to be chairman of the select committee and have interests because
:07:55. > :07:59.you should declare everything. The problem is, and Tim Yeo is recorded
:07:59. > :08:04.as saying that he cannot be seen to interviewing this chairman of the
:08:04. > :08:10.company that he is involved in, but I can talk to people behind the
:08:10. > :08:15.scenes, I have all sorts of access. Is they're not going to be a head of
:08:15. > :08:19.steam building up where the public and others will say, if you are
:08:19. > :08:25.going to chair powerful committees, you cannot have well rewarded
:08:25. > :08:34.outside interests? You would think that, but it has never happened in
:08:34. > :08:40.20 years or so. I think the problem is... The solution would be to pay
:08:40. > :08:50.MPs more but nobody wants to do that, do they? And outrageous port.
:08:50. > :08:53.Move on. For the last three years Labour has argued that the Coalition
:08:53. > :08:56.has been cutting Government spending too far and too fast. But last week
:08:56. > :08:59.major speeches by Ed Miliband and Ed Balls signalled a significant shift
:08:59. > :09:01.in Labour thinking. First the Shadow Chancellor indicated he'd stick to
:09:01. > :09:04.the Coalition's spending plans for the first year after the election.
:09:04. > :09:07.Then on Thursday Mr Miliband claimed that a future Labour Government
:09:07. > :09:11.would be tough on spending and even cap the welfare budget. Here's what
:09:11. > :09:16.the Labour leader had to say. next Labour Government will have
:09:16. > :09:22.less money to spend. If we are going to turn our economy around, protect
:09:22. > :09:28.our NHS and build a stronger country, we will have to be laser
:09:28. > :09:34.focused on every single pound we spend. Social security spending,
:09:34. > :09:40.vital as it is, cannot be exempt from that discipline. Some people
:09:40. > :09:48.argue that if we want to control Social Security spending, we have
:09:48. > :09:51.two leave our values at the door. I disagree. Quite the opposite in
:09:51. > :09:58.fact. Controlling Social Security spending and putting decent values
:09:58. > :10:02.at the heart of the system are not conflicting priorities. It is only
:10:02. > :10:08.by reforming Social Security with the right values that we will be
:10:09. > :10:18.able to control costs. Ed Balls joins me now for the Sunday
:10:19. > :10:20.
:10:20. > :10:26.interview. Welcome back. Both you and Ed Miliband made major speeches
:10:26. > :10:30.last week. What importance do we know of the Labour party this
:10:30. > :10:36.weekend that we didn't know last weekend? People know that because
:10:36. > :10:40.the inheritance will be much tougher than anyone wanted, Labour is saying
:10:40. > :10:44.we will have to face up to that tough inheritance and make very
:10:44. > :10:48.difficult decisions. We are saying loud and clear to anybody out there
:10:48. > :10:52.who thinks the Labour Government next time around will be like the
:10:52. > :10:56.last Labour Government, increasing spending, spending will be falling
:10:56. > :11:03.for departments, we will have to make tough decisions and be rigorous
:11:03. > :11:08.about priorities, but we will do things in a more balanced way.
:11:08. > :11:15.your intention if you win the 20 15th election to stick to the
:11:15. > :11:21.Coalition's current spending plans for 2015/16? That is our starting
:11:21. > :11:29.point and if things carry on for the next two years, that will be what
:11:29. > :11:36.happens. I have heard this from other Labour MPs about the starting
:11:36. > :11:41.point. The key verb I would suggest is will you stick to them? I am
:11:41. > :11:45.saying to you, if things carry on for the next two years as I fear
:11:45. > :11:52.they will, yes, my Shadow Cabinet colleagues will spend the money
:11:52. > :11:57.which we inherit, no more, and there will be no point in them coming to
:11:57. > :12:00.me saying can we spend more here and there. I may not like it and my
:12:00. > :12:10.colleagues may not like it, but I will have to be a Chancellor who
:12:10. > :12:14.
:12:14. > :12:20.says no. Do you think the Coalition cuts have been too deep and too
:12:20. > :12:25.harsh? Yes, the Coalition said they would secure recovery, get gross,
:12:25. > :12:29.the tax revenues would come in and they would get the deficit down.
:12:29. > :12:36.They have lost �270 billion of tax revenues they thought they were
:12:36. > :12:45.going to get. I have said in the speech last week, not only have they
:12:45. > :12:49.failed, if they were to act now to get the economy moving, a temporary
:12:49. > :12:56.VAT cut, I think that would make the economy grow more strongly and ease
:12:56. > :13:02.the pressure in 2015, but they won't. We are carrying on with the
:13:02. > :13:05.same policies of the Eurozone and that will make things very hard.
:13:05. > :13:11.how much on current coalition plans will the Coalition have cut overall
:13:12. > :13:17.spending by the time of the next election? They are doing very badly
:13:17. > :13:23.at it. What George Osborne said he would do is cut spending and raise
:13:23. > :13:30.taxes, �30 billion more a year. how much will they have cut spending
:13:30. > :13:34.by the time you plan to take over? Not very much, his problem is
:13:34. > :13:38.spending on pensions and unemployment have risen. The big
:13:38. > :13:43.driver of his fiscal problem is not about spending, his problem is
:13:43. > :13:48.compared to his plans he has lost �270 billion in tax revenue because
:13:48. > :13:57.people seeing their living standards falling are not getting rises.
:13:57. > :14:01.Companies are not playing tax on profits they are not making. Let's
:14:01. > :14:11.look at total Government spending since the Coalition came to power.
:14:11. > :14:11.
:14:11. > :14:21.This is the figures from the OBR and we have put it into current prices.
:14:21. > :14:26.You can see it started at 732 billion, by 2015 it will be down to
:14:26. > :14:32.about 717. That is a fall of only 2% so when you look at that how can you
:14:32. > :14:37.say it is either too harsh, too deep or too quick? What is happening
:14:37. > :14:41.within those numbers, there is a departmental spending on the NHS,
:14:41. > :14:44.schools, local Government that has come down, but spending on welfare
:14:44. > :14:51.benefits has gone up over that period and that net number reflects
:14:51. > :14:56.the rising welfare. The big reason why the deficit is not coming down
:14:56. > :15:00.is not that spending picture, it is because of the VAT rise plus the tax
:15:00. > :15:04.revenue lost because the economy flat lined, it is the loss of tax
:15:04. > :15:14.revenues that is really the failure. You fail on gross because
:15:14. > :15:20.
:15:20. > :15:26.living standards are falling. look at these years, what we called
:15:26. > :15:33.the out years, where you continue to see some rather modest cuts in
:15:33. > :15:39.overall spending, will you stick to them? What is happening underneath
:15:39. > :15:43.those figures is a big fall in spending, which is planned. We
:15:43. > :15:47.expected on defence, police, social care, maybe even on the budget of
:15:47. > :15:53.skills. On those figures that continues in the following two
:15:53. > :15:59.years. That is being offset by the government's failure to get spending
:15:59. > :16:04.coming down. Will you stick to that or will you cut by more or less?
:16:04. > :16:11.have said that we will set clearer rules for the deficit and the debt
:16:11. > :16:15.in two years time. You see, those plans are not the plans which George
:16:15. > :16:21.Osborne proposed two years ago. Balls, we are both well aware of
:16:21. > :16:27.that. You have talked about continuing in the medium term to
:16:27. > :16:32.continue fiscal consolidation. That is very modest fiscal consolidation.
:16:32. > :16:36.Will you stick to that, will you do better or will you borrow more?
:16:36. > :16:41.would like to see the expenditure on housing benefit and unemployment
:16:41. > :16:50.coming down faster. We'll do cut more or less? Compared to those
:16:50. > :16:53.plans, in 2015-16, we are going to be inheriting those plans. Add the
:16:53. > :16:58.moment, I have no more confidence than you that those plans will be
:16:58. > :17:06.delivered. My fear is that George Osborne's plans will be higher than
:17:06. > :17:09.that. Your leader said only a few months ago that, I think that
:17:09. > :17:16.universal benefits which go across the population are an important
:17:16. > :17:20.airdrop of our society, including child benefit. Why are you agreeing
:17:20. > :17:26.to take away this bedrock of society? We're not going to take
:17:26. > :17:28.away universal benefits. The welfare system has always had some benefits
:17:28. > :17:34.which are universal, like free prescription charges and state
:17:34. > :17:39.pensions. We have said that the winter fuel allowance which we
:17:39. > :17:43.introduced universally, that is going to be a change. We will say,
:17:43. > :17:48.to be honest, we cannot continue to pay the winter allowance to the
:17:48. > :17:52.richest pensioners. We did not like taking away the Child benefit from
:17:52. > :17:59.people on higher incomes but we fear the government did it in a way which
:17:59. > :18:04.was very complex and very unfair. You are going to keep it? Well...
:18:04. > :18:07.Come on, Jews said in March, to Parliament, how can anyone believe
:18:07. > :18:12.it is right to take away child benefit from middle-income
:18:12. > :18:18.families? That was the question you asked. Ten weeks later, you see it
:18:18. > :18:23.is right. I am afraid the inheritance we will face will be
:18:23. > :18:28.very cost. You knew that in March. You told me in March it was going to
:18:28. > :18:34.be terrible. What has changed? We have had the International monetary
:18:34. > :18:37.fund tell us that even this week recovery is not secure. The risks
:18:37. > :18:43.are on the downside. Living standards are falling. Businesses
:18:43. > :18:47.are not investing. In those circumstances, can I say that our
:18:47. > :18:54.priority with the two pay more child benefit to people on the highest
:18:54. > :18:58.earnings? You did not know that ten weeks ago? I think that the evidence
:18:58. > :19:04.of failure has accumulated week by week. Let's suppose you're right and
:19:04. > :19:08.it will be worse than you think. In ten months it could be looking more
:19:08. > :19:16.worse, if that is the correct grammar. I am not totally sure, but
:19:16. > :19:19.we will move on. You have proposed that winter of your payments should
:19:19. > :19:24.be means tested and you have accepted that child benefits should
:19:24. > :19:29.be as well. Reluctantly. What other welfare benefits would you consider
:19:29. > :19:34.for means testing? I think it is about striking a balance depending
:19:34. > :19:41.on how difficult things are. It is clear to me that for people who are
:19:41. > :19:47.over 60, I think that the state pension, the free prescription, I
:19:47. > :19:51.actually think free bus travel, those are foundational. What once
:19:51. > :19:56.would you consider? I have said the winter allowance. We have looked at
:19:56. > :20:01.the free television licence. If you take it away from higher income
:20:01. > :20:09.people over 75, it would only get you �20 million. The admin is so
:20:09. > :20:13.complex I do not think we should do that. The one I have set out so far
:20:13. > :20:18.is the winter allowance. When you say there will be a cap on welfare
:20:18. > :20:21.spending, what are you talking about? We are saying that we want to
:20:21. > :20:26.set a plan for Social Security spending over a number of years. I
:20:26. > :20:32.will then save to departmental spending colleagues on housing and
:20:32. > :20:36.welfare, you have got to get the welfare budgets coming down in line
:20:36. > :20:41.with that. It is an incentive for them but it is also quite tough.
:20:41. > :20:44.Will the cap the on the total welfare budget of over 200 and
:20:44. > :20:51.pounds or will it be the welfare budget, not including state
:20:51. > :20:55.pensions. We have said last week that we certainly think it should
:20:55. > :21:00.exclude the welfare spending which depends on the ups and downs of the
:21:00. > :21:04.economic cycle, which would be around the spending on unemployment.
:21:04. > :21:11.I think there is a question on that on how you handle inflation which
:21:11. > :21:15.can sometimes be up and down. As for pensioners, that is a real question.
:21:15. > :21:20.I do not know if George Osborne will include or exclude pension spending.
:21:20. > :21:26.Our plan is to include it. So pension spending would be included
:21:26. > :21:30.in the welfare cap? That is our plan. What benefits other than
:21:30. > :21:38.pensions are not affected by the state of the economy? Housing
:21:38. > :21:41.benefit is hugely structural. every benefit other than pensions,
:21:41. > :21:46.old-age pensions, I would suggest, is affected by the state of the
:21:46. > :21:53.economy. Even old-age pensions are affected by the state of the
:21:53. > :21:59.economy. The government made a big mistake on the economy in the tax
:21:59. > :22:02.rises and pushed up inflation. That pushed up the cost of pensions. In
:22:02. > :22:07.housing and incapacity benefit, those are two areas were even
:22:07. > :22:13.adjusting for the economic cycle, if you are not getting houses built and
:22:13. > :22:17.rents are going up, then that ends up having a long-term expenditure on
:22:17. > :22:22.incapacity. I understand that. If you're welfare system says that you
:22:22. > :22:27.will not help the poor get back to work with a disability, it ends up
:22:27. > :22:31.costing more in the long term. happens if in your two, you have set
:22:31. > :22:37.this welfare cap which includes pensions, you have set it and it
:22:37. > :22:40.looks like you are going to breach it. Do you cut spending on welfare?
:22:40. > :22:43.For the cap to work vigorously you have got to be looking ahead and you
:22:44. > :22:46.have got to be saying to the ministers, three years ahead, you're
:22:46. > :22:48.ministers, three years ahead, you're going off track, do what needs to be
:22:48. > :22:56.ministers, three years ahead, you're going off track, do what needs So
:22:56. > :23:03.you could cut benefits? I pointed out the winter allowance decision I
:23:03. > :23:07.have made. No Chancellor can ever say that he has not done that.
:23:07. > :23:13.you stop an increase on a cap on pensions? That is not our intention
:23:13. > :23:18.at all. So why the cap? It is important that you are looking
:23:18. > :23:21.across all welfare spending as far as you can. It may be that the
:23:21. > :23:25.Chancellor of the Exchequer, when it comes to his cap in a few weeks
:23:25. > :23:33.time, he wants to include unemployment spending and pension
:23:33. > :23:42.spending. I think it is important to look across the whole welfare state
:23:42. > :23:47.and the drivers of expenditure. Most welfare spending is going to people
:23:47. > :23:51.over 60. That is the truth. should look across the whole piece.
:23:51. > :23:55.You have talked about building 400,000 affordable homes in two
:23:55. > :24:01.years. You have cited the IMF supporting a house-building
:24:01. > :24:04.programme. Let me show you what Hilary Benn just said. Local
:24:04. > :24:10.communities should decide where they want new homes and developments to
:24:10. > :24:13.go. I picked it to you, you have been around a long time, all
:24:13. > :24:17.previous experience under Labour and Conservative governments sure you
:24:17. > :24:24.can have a major house-building programme you can have major
:24:24. > :24:29.devolution of planning to step -- major devolution of planning
:24:29. > :24:34.consent, but you cannot have both. Hilary Benn says that we have got to
:24:34. > :24:38.build more homes. He is right about that. If you take your cities at the
:24:38. > :24:43.moment and what is happening in our housing market, at the moment the
:24:43. > :24:50.shortage of homes is for first-time buyers. Affordable housing in the
:24:50. > :24:53.centre of times. My point to you is that the short age of homes, mainly
:24:54. > :24:58.in the side, they are all Tory councils and they will not agree to
:24:58. > :25:03.affordable homes? It is more complicated. The housebuilders are
:25:03. > :25:08.saying, we only one to build 45 bedroom houses on greenfield land on
:25:08. > :25:13.the edge of times. The demand for housing, the place where we wanted
:25:13. > :25:17.is in the town centres, it is affordable. We need to listen to
:25:17. > :25:22.what people are saying locally. They are saying, you not concrete over
:25:22. > :25:29.the green belt. Build affordable homes where people actually want to
:25:29. > :25:35.live. Is the British economy recovering? I hope so. Do you think
:25:35. > :25:42.so? I am fearful, but even if it is, it is going to be really weak. If
:25:42. > :25:45.you looked at broad money in our economy, as you know, broad money
:25:45. > :25:51.aggregates tell you something important. At the moment, broad
:25:51. > :25:56.money is really flat. Banks are not lending, consumers are not spending,
:25:57. > :26:01.businesses are not investing. There are signs of a pick-up in the
:26:02. > :26:07.service sector, fingers crossed. Is this going to be a recovery which
:26:07. > :26:12.gets investment flowing, I am fearful. By European standards, the
:26:12. > :26:17.British economy is doing not badly. The Eurozone has contracted for the
:26:17. > :26:22.sick quarter, we are not. France and Finland are in recession, we are
:26:22. > :26:32.not. The IMF says that Britain will grow twice as fast as Germany this
:26:32. > :26:36.
:26:36. > :26:41.year. Your economic credibility is doubtful? Even next year, the IMF is
:26:41. > :26:46.predicting growth of less than 2%. understand that. No one said it was
:26:46. > :26:54.rude health. But we are doing better than Europe. Over the last three
:26:54. > :26:58.years, we have matched the Eurozone. It has been dismal. Unless you get
:26:58. > :27:04.growth going and living standards rise, unless you feel on tax, this
:27:04. > :27:10.is not going to turn around. final question, you were at this
:27:10. > :27:16.secret Bilderberg Group meeting in Watford on Friday. How are your
:27:16. > :27:20.plans for world domination preceding? World domination! I have
:27:21. > :27:28.been to this thing a couple of times over the last 15 years. I do not see
:27:28. > :27:35.what a fuss is about. It is a group of people that sit around and talk
:27:35. > :27:38.about what is how mean, medical research, the economies. You did not
:27:38. > :27:44.go towards world government? One of the problems with opposition is you
:27:44. > :27:49.do not get to decide anything. you. What is your favourite
:27:49. > :27:55.organisation with a skidding in? Spectre? The board? How about the
:27:55. > :27:59.Bilderberg group? The other club of transatlantic VIPs who meet every
:27:59. > :28:06.year, usually at a very posh location, to discuss... Well, who
:28:06. > :28:11.knows? It is all kept very hush-hush. Guests include the likes
:28:11. > :28:18.of Henry Kissinger, the head of the IMF and our Prime Minister. This
:28:18. > :28:28.year's top-secret tete-a-tete was being held in Watford. It is like
:28:28. > :28:28.
:28:28. > :28:32.Christmas for conspiracy theorists, including Adam.
:28:32. > :28:38.The Masters of the universe and their critics have spent a weekend
:28:38. > :28:46.at Watford's posh Grove hotel for the annual Bilderberg meeting. Could
:28:46. > :28:50.that be the Prime Minister, the George Osborne and egg rolls -- and
:28:50. > :28:56.Ed Balls share a ride? This year the organisers have released a list of
:28:56. > :29:05.the 150 people in their and the topics they have been discussing.
:29:05. > :29:08.Growth, big data and current affairs. The protesters outside
:29:08. > :29:14.accused this group of everything from climate change to coups, but
:29:14. > :29:18.they are mainly a night about the lack of transparency. The man in the
:29:18. > :29:22.middle of the crowd is Alex Jones, King of the conspiracy theorists. I
:29:22. > :29:29.there any conspiracy theories out there that you think are just too
:29:29. > :29:36.extreme? I do not personally think they are extraterrestrials. Scary
:29:36. > :29:43.stuff, but this protest seems more like a slightly weird party. It is
:29:43. > :29:47.just corporate Megadeth, so we are here to destroy them all. It is
:29:47. > :29:54.surrounded by a ring of steel, and a big, but fairly relaxed, police
:29:54. > :30:02.presence. Bilderberg veterans say that is a big change. I had a
:30:02. > :30:09.baptism of fire in 2009 in Athens. I went along and spent a week being
:30:09. > :30:13.arrested, rearrested. For residents of Watford, it is a bit, so what?
:30:13. > :30:19.heard it was a secret shadow government meeting. It has not been
:30:19. > :30:24.held in England for a long time. What do you think of that? What?
:30:24. > :30:29.Secret shadow government? What is that. Very few of the participants
:30:29. > :30:35.from the UK wanted to speak. I have just managed to speak to a very
:30:35. > :30:40.senior participant on the phone. I asked him, why all the secrecy? He
:30:40. > :30:45.said that until the 1990s, the use to hold press conferences after
:30:45. > :30:50.every meeting but no journalist turned up, so they stop doing them.
:30:50. > :30:54.As if by magic, a member of the infamous -- a member of the
:30:54. > :30:56.influential steering committee turned up. What goes on this
:30:56. > :31:03.discussion of the worlds problems with a lot of politicians and
:31:03. > :31:06.businessmen. We always produce lists of who is there, it is not secret.
:31:06. > :31:12.But we do not have a mass audience listening to our discussion so it is
:31:12. > :31:17.a good informal weekend. But the Internet is full of nutty theories
:31:17. > :31:23.about how we're going to invade the world and poise in America. It is
:31:23. > :31:28.much dollar than that. I am slightly disappointed. Maybe not so sinister
:31:28. > :31:38.after all. I am told that there is a Bilderberg splinter group which
:31:38. > :31:38.
:31:38. > :31:48.includes the Chinese, and you know how open they are. That was Adam
:31:48. > :31:52.
:31:52. > :31:55.Fleming reporting, we have not seen him since. And we've been joined by
:31:55. > :31:57.Alex Jones, an American shock jock who's been campaigning for more
:31:57. > :32:02.openness at the Bilderberg Conference, and by David
:32:02. > :32:12.Aaronovitch, columnist at the Times. Welcome to you both. What have you
:32:12. > :32:14.
:32:14. > :32:21.discovered about Bilderberg? I have interviewed members of the EU
:32:21. > :32:27.Parliament, 3000 people, Bilderberg is heavily involved in the EU plan
:32:27. > :32:32.and helped to catch it and it is a Nazi plan. They had Lockheed
:32:32. > :32:37.scandals in the 70s and that is why Prince Bernard, the founder, had to
:32:37. > :32:43.step down. It is the ultimate lobbying meeting. Well you have this
:32:43. > :32:46.scandal going on, the Prime Minister going there, Ed balls, we have
:32:46. > :32:56.forced them from cover to admit they are puppeteers above the major
:32:56. > :33:05.parties. So now we know that Oldenburg has given us the euro?
:33:05. > :33:09.Yes, if you talk to Alex for any length of time, you discover all
:33:09. > :33:15.kinds of things you never knew. You have uncovered the New World order,
:33:15. > :33:20.which is deadly. It is full of criminals who seek to run the world
:33:21. > :33:28.and will kill anyone who gets in their way and you are a lone
:33:28. > :33:34.crusader powering against them, so how are you still alive? Which is
:33:34. > :33:42.the explanation? They don't exist, or you are part of the conspiracy? I
:33:42. > :33:52.say the first. I say the second. Five years ago when Obama was
:33:52. > :33:53.
:33:53. > :34:03.Oldenburg, the New York Times said I was crazy and there was no
:34:03. > :34:04.
:34:05. > :34:14.Bilderberg meeting. I got a phone call saying you had better shut your
:34:15. > :34:16.
:34:16. > :34:26.mouth... They are going to say there is no aspiring, it is like Nazi
:34:26. > :34:27.
:34:27. > :34:37.Germany. It is tyranny. I am here to testify that your head was not cut
:34:37. > :34:39.
:34:39. > :34:45.off. It turns me into a martyr, it puts! Songs of the end of what I
:34:45. > :34:51.have said. We have megabanks getting $85 million a month of US taxpayer
:34:51. > :34:58.money, most of it going to Europe. EU taxpayers have to pay to these
:34:59. > :35:04.mega- bankers. It has come out and then the media distracts you.
:35:04. > :35:12.are not going to dominate this, it is not your own radio show. Should
:35:12. > :35:22.we beware of the Bilderberg Group? It feels slightly out of date,
:35:22. > :35:23.
:35:23. > :35:28.belonging to the a row when you couldn't admit in Parliament, , when
:35:28. > :35:34.recalled the head of the MI5 M N, we couldn't admit to these things.
:35:34. > :35:42.People haven't been at the meeting yet. We are in a police state, it is
:35:42. > :35:45.like 1984. How come you are here then? They turned back some of my
:35:45. > :35:51.reporters but they didn't turn me away because they didn't want to
:35:51. > :35:57.cause a stink. Do you think the BBC is part of the conspiracy? Why have
:35:57. > :36:06.we let you on? Because you guys think you can manage the whole
:36:06. > :36:12.thing. I have 3 million radio listeners a day, I get about 50
:36:13. > :36:20.million U-tube views a month. The establishment doesn't know what to
:36:20. > :36:26.do. Alex has this point, I would ten years ago have said listen to this
:36:26. > :36:30.stuff, he believes people put the cancer virus in vaccines in order to
:36:30. > :36:36.create a eugenics programme, that is what he believes, and I would have
:36:36. > :36:41.said that is kind of mad and so on and it is an interesting
:36:41. > :36:47.psychological point. The problem is that conspiracy theories like these
:36:47. > :36:55.are believed. I am here to warn people. You keep telling me to shut
:36:55. > :37:01.up. This is not a game. You have this arrest for public safety, life
:37:01. > :37:06.in prison. You are the worst person I have ever interviewed. David,
:37:06. > :37:15.thank you for being with us. It has gone half past 11. You are watching
:37:15. > :37:25.the Sunday Politics. You will not stop the Republic! You guys are
:37:25. > :37:34.crazy! We will be back with our political panel. Until then, the
:37:34. > :37:38.Sunday Politics across the UK. Hello and welcome from us. Coming up
:37:38. > :37:43.later: The Labour council where a quarter of all councillors have at
:37:43. > :37:46.some stage received a summons for not paying their council tax. I am
:37:46. > :37:49.joined today by Gareth Thomas, Labour MP for Harrow West, and by
:37:49. > :37:52.Jackie Doyle-Price, Conservative MP for Thurrock. First off can we talk
:37:52. > :37:58.about what is being seen by some as a consequence of the murder of the
:37:58. > :38:00.soldier Lee Rigby in Woolwich. A fire which destroyed the Islamic
:38:00. > :38:03.centre in Muswell Hill in North London his week. Counter terrorism
:38:03. > :38:06.police have been involved. The security minister James Brokenshire
:38:06. > :38:09.has now visited. It appears to be a hate crime, and the initials of the
:38:09. > :38:13.English Defence League were seen on the side of the burning building.
:38:13. > :38:18.The EDL have denied any involvement in the blaze, adding a number of
:38:18. > :38:28.fires have been carried out to frame them. So, are there reasons to be
:38:28. > :38:28.
:38:28. > :38:32.concerned about community tensions? Obviously there is very real anger
:38:33. > :38:40.about what happened in Woolwich. I hear what the EDL have been saying
:38:40. > :38:45.but the rhetoric around the response will only encourage people to react
:38:45. > :38:50.in a violent way. We are proud of this country being liberal and
:38:50. > :38:56.tolerant. What happened in Woolwich is alien to that, but also any
:38:56. > :39:05.reprisals will be equally alien. What is the feeling in Harrow? Have
:39:05. > :39:09.any precautions been made to protect buildings? There have been some
:39:09. > :39:14.precautions taken by the police working across all communities to
:39:14. > :39:20.make sure that for example mosques and temples are properly protected
:39:20. > :39:26.and there is visible policing in those areas. I agree with Jackie.
:39:26. > :39:30.What we have seen across London and across the country is uniform
:39:30. > :39:36.outrage about what happened in Woolwich. I am struck by the number
:39:36. > :39:40.of people of Muslim faith who have been equally outraged by what
:39:40. > :39:44.happened. The Assistant Commissioner this week said there had been
:39:44. > :39:51.tension but there had not been reprisals of violence following
:39:51. > :39:56.this. Do you believe that? In Harrow, and I think across the bulk
:39:56. > :39:59.of London, we have not seen a significant spike in hate crime as
:39:59. > :40:05.yet and that is very encouraging, but clearly if there are any
:40:05. > :40:10.incidents of hate crime, that needs to be cracked down on and it will be
:40:10. > :40:16.important to see what the results of the investigation are that the
:40:16. > :40:21.Metropolitan police are conducting into the mosque fire.
:40:21. > :40:25.We have seen members of the EDL appearing outside the Old Bailey
:40:25. > :40:32.this week, should the police be thinking more carefully about
:40:32. > :40:36.whether to allow protest marches? What about freedom of expression?
:40:36. > :40:41.Freedom of speech is very important in this country, and just as the
:40:41. > :40:45.perpetrators in Woolwich were rogue elements and by no means
:40:45. > :40:49.representative of the broader Muslim faith, I think we have to be careful
:40:49. > :40:54.about branding anyone until the outcome of an investigation has been
:40:54. > :41:02.settled. There will always be people on the margins of society who want
:41:02. > :41:11.an excuse to behave in this way. you think we should ban marches?
:41:11. > :41:16.am not in favour of banning anything. If there is a security
:41:16. > :41:21.risk, you have to have that option in your locker. It is right to allow
:41:21. > :41:31.people to have freedom of speech, but if it will inflame tensions,
:41:31. > :41:34.
:41:34. > :41:37.create the risk of crime, you have two have that power. As we heard
:41:37. > :41:39.this week, the Metropolitan Police is considering plans to use positive
:41:39. > :41:42.discrimination when recruiting new officers. Scotland Yard has
:41:42. > :41:45.confirmed this might mean a white officer could only be hired if a
:41:45. > :41:48.person from a black or ethnic minority background was recruited at
:41:48. > :41:50.the same time. It's borne out of concerns the Met still doesn't
:41:50. > :41:55.adequately reflect the capital it polices. Jerry Thomas reports. In
:41:55. > :41:58.1999, this was the media scrum that greeted the new Metropolitan police
:41:59. > :42:03.Commissioner and the Home Secretary, in the wake of a damning report that
:42:03. > :42:09.found the force to be institutionally racist. Sir John
:42:09. > :42:15.Stevens was tasked with recruiting 5000 nonwhite officers. We need the
:42:15. > :42:19.forced to mirror what the population of London is. An opportunity then to
:42:19. > :42:25.change the culture of the Met Police, now it seems we have
:42:25. > :42:33.another. We want to make sure we have the best chance to make sure
:42:33. > :42:39.the Metropolitan police looks and feels like London. In 1999, it had
:42:39. > :42:43.890 nonwhite police officers, now it has more than 3000, closer to 10%.
:42:43. > :42:52.However, for in ten Londoners are not quite so the Met patrols police
:42:52. > :42:58.is catch up -- the Metropolitan police. One possibility is that for
:42:58. > :43:04.every white police officer it recruits now, it will have to take
:43:04. > :43:10.on one nonwhite one. We are constantly hearing from the public
:43:10. > :43:15.that they want policing to look like London, so if we are going to
:43:15. > :43:19.recruit in a different way, we have got to try a different approach.
:43:19. > :43:24.Doing that would need a change in the law and wouldn't be universally
:43:24. > :43:28.popular within the Metropolitan police. All discrimination is wrong
:43:28. > :43:36.and we base our view on the fact that employment selection,
:43:36. > :43:44.recruitment, whatever you want to call it, should be based on merit.
:43:44. > :43:48.If the Metropolitan police did change the law, it could have
:43:48. > :43:52.implications elsewhere in the capital. There are both Government
:43:52. > :43:57.bodies and private sector employers who will say they would like to do
:43:57. > :44:03.it as well. There are lots of American organisations who find it
:44:03. > :44:07.slightly frustrating they cannot have these ratios in the UK.
:44:07. > :44:11.Metropolitan police says it intends to encourage more nonwhite
:44:12. > :44:17.candidates to apply, and only if the recruitment drive fault is they seek
:44:17. > :44:19.a change in the law. Joining us now, Halil Huseyin, Chair of the Staff
:44:19. > :44:24.Association groups which promote diversity within the Metropolitan
:44:24. > :44:30.Police. Why have the figures not been better? We have seen they have
:44:30. > :44:37.improved. It is a very good question. Within the service there
:44:37. > :44:47.are certain barriers internally. The best way to describe it would be
:44:47. > :44:48.
:44:48. > :44:51.internal politics. As opposed to racism? I believe it has been
:44:51. > :44:57.identified the Metropolitan police is no longer institutionally racist
:44:57. > :45:03.but it is how to take diversity forward. What are the barriers? A
:45:03. > :45:08.white force all management doesn't recruit ethnic minority applicants?
:45:08. > :45:11.The bottom line is this, the Metropolitan police service is still
:45:11. > :45:16.not reflective of London's communities and until we paint the
:45:16. > :45:26.better picture, we will not be a better place in terms of supporting
:45:26. > :45:29.London's communities. Is that because not enough are replying or
:45:29. > :45:34.wanting to be in the police force, and is that reflective of something
:45:34. > :45:40.that should be as of much concern? People do not feel the police force
:45:40. > :45:44.is a place for them? Culturally, there are massive concerns from
:45:45. > :45:50.diverse communities. It could be how you are brought up. There are whole
:45:50. > :45:53.load of issues. The bottom line is the Metropolitan Police is looking
:45:53. > :45:59.into these issues with the support of the internal diversity Forum,
:45:59. > :46:04.which I am chair of. Would you support positive discrimination and
:46:04. > :46:09.say, a measure, if you take one might employee on, you take one
:46:09. > :46:14.black employee on at this time? Whatever the service decides, it is
:46:14. > :46:20.important that we are consulted and their expertise is considered.
:46:20. > :46:24.would you like to see... ? I would like to see that. Realistically, we
:46:24. > :46:30.are still lacking the numbers within the service to reflect London's
:46:30. > :46:34.communities. We have heard a representative of the rank and file
:46:34. > :46:38.saying they are against positive discrimination. They say it should
:46:38. > :46:42.be on merit. This would cost pension?
:46:42. > :46:49.I like to think I have a good working relationship with The Met
:46:49. > :46:56.Federation. My opinion is certainly that we need better representation
:46:56. > :47:00.through the police service. Potentially, could that not create
:47:00. > :47:02.more tension resentment, that would actually be to the disadvantage of
:47:02. > :47:09.the black and ethnic minority applicants we need in the police
:47:09. > :47:13.force? It is no surprise that my personal opinion with B, if we are
:47:13. > :47:20.looking at recruitment, alongside that we need to look at other
:47:20. > :47:23.strategies to support the retention and progression of candidates.
:47:23. > :47:27.-- positive discrimination, measures are needed because we're not moving
:47:27. > :47:30.fast enough? The Metropolitan Police needs to be more representative of
:47:30. > :47:36.the community, but I have always been against positive
:47:36. > :47:41.discrimination. It diminishes those that actually do make it, who you
:47:41. > :47:46.are actually trying to help. I am very interested in what was said
:47:46. > :47:50.earlier, looking at what happens within the service. It is easy to
:47:50. > :47:56.focus on recruitment, but we can focus more on tackling behaviours
:47:56. > :48:00.within the Metropolitan Police. We can encourage people to go farther
:48:00. > :48:04.and move up the organisation. saw more broad mock -- if you some
:48:04. > :48:09.more role models in the higher ranks, that would send a clear
:48:09. > :48:14.message that you can go all the way? Yes, and we have got to reach a
:48:14. > :48:18.tipping point where people can see that the public face of the
:48:18. > :48:21.Metropolitan Police is like them. We had a long way from that. Gareth
:48:21. > :48:27.Thomas, we need the best people available, not people being
:48:27. > :48:31.recruited and the basis of quarters? We certainly do need the
:48:31. > :48:34.best to be recruited into the Metropolitan Police. There are two
:48:34. > :48:40.issues, and one is that we are having a debate about recruitment at
:48:40. > :48:48.all. London has lost some 4000 police officers in the last two or
:48:48. > :48:52.three years. We will allow you to get back in. Go on. On the specific
:48:53. > :48:58.went about black and ethnic minority recruitment, the rise in the last
:48:58. > :49:01.ten years disguises a wider problem. The recruitment is far more at the
:49:01. > :49:07.lower levels of the Metropolitan Police than the higher levels. What
:49:07. > :49:13.do we do about that? I agree with both your other guests about the
:49:13. > :49:17.culture change that is needed within The Met. There have been a series of
:49:17. > :49:22.high-profile cases around a number of senior black and ethnic minority
:49:22. > :49:28.the officers of The Met to have left the organisation for various
:49:28. > :49:35.controversial reasons. My own recent Chief Superintendent in Harrow lost
:49:35. > :49:39.out on promotion opportunity. I think of them. That kind of things
:49:39. > :49:43.sends disproportion of signals to people, that you can only get so
:49:43. > :49:49.far. Sure. We need to do more on recruitment, but the crucial thing
:49:49. > :49:53.is retention. How do you support good officers at lower ranks to help
:49:54. > :49:58.them progress up the ranks. Final point, if you're telling people out
:49:58. > :50:04.there considering a career, would you tell them it is a place you
:50:04. > :50:08.should want to go and join, it is changing, it is going to happen?
:50:08. > :50:13.Absolutely. I have been in the service for just shy of 13 years.
:50:13. > :50:18.For me, it was not in a sailing ship in terms of glory, there have been
:50:18. > :50:23.challenges, but we have had senior colleagues that have taken my view
:50:23. > :50:29.very seriously. To answer your question, yes, I would encourage
:50:29. > :50:33.people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds, and indeed the
:50:33. > :50:37.wider community, because it is not just about black and ethnic minority
:50:37. > :50:41.communities. There are other communities out there that for shy
:50:42. > :50:46.of being diverse, disabilities and other areas. Thank you for coming
:50:46. > :50:49.Now, we reported a few weeks ago on the hundreds of millions of pounds
:50:49. > :50:53.owed to London's councils in unpaid council tax, much of it unlikely to
:50:53. > :50:56.be recovered. Today, another twist on the story. The councillors who
:50:56. > :50:59.don't pay council tax, or all of it, anyway. We've learned court
:50:59. > :51:06.summonses have been issued against 55 current councillors, including 16
:51:07. > :51:11.alone in one borough, Lambeth. Andrew Cryan reports.
:51:11. > :51:14.Across London, every, councillors are involved in decisions about how
:51:15. > :51:18.our council tax money is spent, but the Sunday Politics investigation
:51:18. > :51:24.has found that some of them are rather keener on spending public
:51:24. > :51:26.money than coughing up their share of it. We found that five London
:51:26. > :51:29.councils currently have a serving councillor who has been issued a
:51:29. > :51:37.court summons for non-payment of council tax. To borrowers have
:51:37. > :51:43.three. Another to have four nonpaying cancellers. Waltham Forest
:51:43. > :51:46.and Harrow have six, Barnett eight, but double any of those, with 16
:51:46. > :51:51.currently serving councillors, all issued with court summonses for
:51:51. > :51:58.non-payment of their council tax, is Lambeth. Last week one newspaper ran
:51:58. > :52:04.at page leader, a big story, and one councillor who had received a court
:52:04. > :52:08.summons for non-payment of council tax. He then Lambeth, it is six
:52:08. > :52:11.times as many people and a quarter of the whole counsel. By the time
:52:11. > :52:18.people are issued with a court summons, things have gone pretty
:52:18. > :52:24.far. At the point where the summons arrives, it suggests it is on the
:52:24. > :52:28.very edge of forgetfulness. It suggests that people are testing how
:52:28. > :52:33.far they can go. That is not something that most of us would want
:52:33. > :52:36.to do apart from in the most extreme financial difficulties. It is
:52:36. > :52:42.uncomfortable news for a council that used to spend a lot of time in
:52:42. > :52:46.the headlines. The images in the media about Brixton and Lambeth and
:52:46. > :52:53.black people in general are always negative. I the early 80s, Landis
:52:53. > :53:00.was known as a centre for the radical left. Neil Kinnock says that
:53:00. > :53:04.the Labour Party itself will have to pay a price for their defiance.
:53:04. > :53:07.findings about council tax non-payment prompted similar
:53:07. > :53:13.indignation from today's ministers as what you might have had back
:53:13. > :53:18.then. It is an astonishing figure. I am amazed that councils let it get
:53:18. > :53:23.that high. We do not have good enough rates of collection. Lambeth
:53:23. > :53:28.have got to get their act together in their own houses well. Every time
:53:28. > :53:32.someone does not pay their council tax, every other good taxpaying
:53:32. > :53:37.resident is covering that cost in the rate they pay. In the streets
:53:37. > :53:40.around the town Hall, views were mixed. In the times we're living in,
:53:40. > :53:46.it is not easy for nobody, whether you're working for the cancelled or
:53:46. > :53:52.not. Realistically, everybody is facing hard times. I think it is
:53:52. > :53:58.good for them to pay. We invited Lambeth to take part in a programme
:53:58. > :54:08.but they declined and give us this statement.
:54:08. > :54:22.
:54:22. > :54:25.Now it's time for a look at the rest from council tax or borrow money and
:54:25. > :54:29.wit, are barred from voting the cancelled.
:54:30. > :54:33.Do you think there should be further sanctions. Should anyone be able to
:54:33. > :54:37.carry on as an elected member if they have the summons to pay money
:54:38. > :54:42.to an authority they are representing? The crucial thing is
:54:42. > :54:45.that the money gets paid. Clearly the ideal situation in terms of any
:54:45. > :54:51.council taxpayer is that they pay their council tax when it is
:54:51. > :54:56.required, on the Jew did. The significant thing about what Lambeth
:54:56. > :55:04.have said is that every one of those councillors has paid now. They have
:55:04. > :55:09.now paid the full amount. Should it have got to that situation in the
:55:09. > :55:12.first place? We do not know how long it went on? There are whole series
:55:12. > :55:16.of councillors from political parties that get into difficulties.
:55:16. > :55:26.We have to recognise that at the crucial thing is that they pay in
:55:26. > :55:31.the end. Councils like Lambeth have to crack down on non-payment of the
:55:31. > :55:34.council tax. One of the reasons why Lambeth has been able to turn around
:55:34. > :55:39.its finances and its reputation is precisely because it has cracked
:55:39. > :55:44.down, like other London Labour councils, on non-payment of the
:55:44. > :55:49.council tax. Your minister was sending very intolerant of this, do
:55:49. > :55:53.you feel the same way? I have a zero tolerance attitude to this. We are
:55:53. > :55:57.talking about people who drive expenses and salaries for
:55:58. > :56:00.representing their communities and the council. Those allowances
:56:00. > :56:08.probably the -- probably exceed what they would have to pay in council
:56:08. > :56:11.tax. Serving your local community as a counsellor should not be a
:56:11. > :56:16.full-time job. If we are getting into that state, it is one of the
:56:16. > :56:20.weaknesses we have. People get into financial difficulty. Are they not
:56:20. > :56:25.recite slayed the kind of April that you would not want to preside over
:56:25. > :56:29.you and your local authority? Equally we need to make sure that if
:56:29. > :56:32.you're standing for election and Elizabeth of trust. If you're going
:56:32. > :56:37.to make decisions about how the taxpayers' money is going to be
:56:37. > :56:40.spent, you should be honouring your dads. There are occasions when
:56:40. > :56:45.people get into difficulty, but Beachy dented into a proper
:56:45. > :56:54.arrangement with the local authority to make sure there paid. Now it is
:56:54. > :56:58.time for a look at the rest of the political news in 60 seconds.
:56:58. > :57:02.Mind the doors at Gregory Baker Street. The Conservative group on
:57:02. > :57:08.the London assembly have suggested turning to sponsorship deals for
:57:08. > :57:13.Tube lines and stations. They save �136 million is raised this weekly
:57:13. > :57:17.mean reason fares. Cressida Dick told police that there is no
:57:17. > :57:21.evidence that other suspects were on the scene at the recent killing of a
:57:21. > :57:27.soldier in will age. She also said that 600 officers have been involved
:57:27. > :57:35.in the investigation. Less than one fifth the victims in the London
:57:35. > :57:39.riots are yet to see a payout in your compensation claims. Police
:57:39. > :57:42.figures say that only �35 million has been paid out so far.
:57:42. > :57:48.The headteacher of a top London Academy has resigned over the misuse
:57:48. > :57:54.of public funds. She was the head of the skill in St John's Wood. An
:57:54. > :57:57.eight-month investigation into the school's finances, found that she
:57:57. > :58:02.spent thousands of pounds in taxes, flowers and even her own birthday
:58:02. > :58:07.party. Is nothing sacred? Should we flog
:58:07. > :58:11.off any available public space? in favour of trying to get as much
:58:11. > :58:20.private money into our public services as possible. If we take
:58:20. > :58:22.less money from the taxpayer, it is fine by me. We are talking about an
:58:22. > :58:28.international, recognised brand in the London Underground. Would you be
:58:28. > :58:33.happy to have hard red sponsors names on that map? I think it could
:58:33. > :58:39.be done innovate is for way. And it would be profitable. The name of the
:58:39. > :58:44.sponsor is the issue? That is for whoever comes to negotiate deals. I
:58:44. > :58:48.cannot see why maintaining the integrity of an iconic international
:58:48. > :58:52.brand and giving some advantage to people cannot be achievable. Have
:58:52. > :58:56.times become so hard, and you know, you will have to adopt all the
:58:56. > :59:01.spending restrictions of this government, have times become so
:59:01. > :59:04.hard we should look at solutions like this? We should look attractive
:59:04. > :59:11.get more commercial revenue onto the tube network. Selling advertising
:59:11. > :59:15.space seems to make complete sense. I am not sure I would want had won
:59:15. > :59:21.the hell station replaced with a sort of Google or Berkeley station.
:59:21. > :59:25.That is a step too far. I think the idea is not. We have seen the
:59:25. > :59:29.Barclays banks around the place? Even that the mirror does not seem
:59:29. > :59:33.to have negotiated a very good deal with Barclays, I am not sure I would
:59:33. > :59:42.trust him to negotiate a good deal to the place had only held other
:59:42. > :59:45.stations. -- to the place Harrow on the hell are other stations. People
:59:45. > :59:50.have an affinity with cheap stations because of the service that they
:59:50. > :59:54.provide in the community. I was talking to someone from The National
:59:54. > :59:57.Trust earlier this week, and they said they did not like the boards
:59:57. > :00:02.that are going up on roundabouts, even on roads, what do you think
:00:02. > :00:08.about those? They have every potential to be a good revenue
:00:08. > :00:12.raiser for local authorities. We have a numbered in Thurrock. The day
:00:12. > :00:19.bring money into maintain the planting. We should not real things
:00:19. > :00:29.out without using our imagination. We have not seen any final decisions
:00:29. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:43.made, but I suppose we should watch this space, thank you you both.
:00:43. > :00:48.Now, the news at noon with Tim Wilcox. William Hague has confirmed
:00:48. > :00:51.he will give a statement to Parliament tomorrow on the
:00:51. > :00:56.allegations surrounding the intelligence agency GCHQ. There is
:00:56. > :01:05.pressure to clarify how much ministers know about spying on
:01:05. > :01:09.Internet use. It has been accused of monitoring e-mails with information
:01:09. > :01:16.gathered by Prism. William Hague said ordinary people should not be
:01:16. > :01:24.worried about being spied on. authorise operations most days of
:01:24. > :01:28.the week at GCHQ so I know how they work. The idea that GCHQ people are
:01:28. > :01:32.sitting working out how to circumvent a UK law with another
:01:32. > :01:42.country is fanciful, it is nonsense and I can give people that
:01:42. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:46.assurance. A senior Conservative MP is facing allegations that he used
:01:46. > :01:48.his position as chairman of the Commons energy committee to help a
:01:48. > :01:51.private company influence parliament. Tim Yeo was secretly
:01:51. > :01:54.filmed by Sunday Times investigators posing as staff from a green energy
:01:54. > :01:58.company looking to hire him. They allege he told them he coached the
:01:58. > :02:01.boss of a firm, owned by a company paying him, on how to give evidence
:02:01. > :02:06.to his committee. Mr Yeo denies the allegations as Ross Hawkins reports.
:02:06. > :02:16.A secret recording, an MP, a committee chairmen across the table
:02:16. > :02:18.
:02:18. > :02:22.from undercover reporters. Another set of lobbying allegations. Tim Yeo
:02:22. > :02:26.appear to say he coached someone working for a firm in which he had a
:02:26. > :02:30.financial interest before they appeared at his committee. He denies
:02:30. > :02:36.the claims and was due to go on TV to talk about this until he changed
:02:36. > :02:41.his mind. Earlier this morning Tim Yeo agreed to do a live interview
:02:41. > :02:49.with us but in the last hour he pulled out citing no reasons.
:02:49. > :02:53.was hard on the heels of separate claims about Patrick Mercer. David
:02:53. > :02:57.Cameron once said lobbying would be the next big scandal and has now
:02:57. > :03:04.promised a new law to set up a register of lobbyists by July. The
:03:04. > :03:14.question is whether that will end the allegations by reporters and
:03:14. > :03:17.
:03:17. > :03:19.secret cameras. Nelson Mandela has spent a second night in hospital in
:03:20. > :03:29.Pretoria, where he's receiving treatment for a recurring lung
:03:29. > :03:34.infection. Officials say Mr Mandela, 94, is breathing unaided and remains
:03:34. > :03:39.in a serious but stable condition. We are waiting for an update, but in
:03:39. > :03:45.the meantime we are being told Nelson Mandela's doctors have not
:03:45. > :03:50.made any changes since yesterday since they said he was in a stable
:03:50. > :03:55.but serious condition. His relatives have been in hospital today to see
:03:55. > :04:00.him but there is no sense of a bedside vigil. Many South Africans
:04:00. > :04:05.are urging the 94-year-old liberation hero to fight on, but you
:04:05. > :04:09.also get the sense many people are aware he is old and frail armed
:04:09. > :04:15.there are increasingly talks about the need for nature to take its
:04:15. > :04:21.course and for Nelson Mandela to be allowed to enjoy his last few days
:04:21. > :04:31.or weeks or whatever it is in peace. That is all the news for now, there
:04:31. > :04:34.will be more news on BBC One at six o'clock. Back to you, Andrew.
:04:34. > :04:37.So, have British spooks been using a secret US data programme called
:04:37. > :04:40.Prism to keep tabs on our emails? What does David Cameron do about
:04:40. > :04:50.Syria? And what will Ed Miliband do next after his big speech on
:04:50. > :04:54.
:04:54. > :05:01.welfare? All questions for The Week Ahead. So, you saw William Hague on
:05:02. > :05:10.the news saying there is nothing happening here, no need to hang
:05:10. > :05:14.around, move along - he will not get away with that, will he? I thought
:05:14. > :05:21.he was completely unconvincing. It went through the if you have got
:05:21. > :05:28.nothing to hide you have got nothing to fear, which is what people always
:05:28. > :05:32.say when they won't answer your questions, and failed to verify
:05:32. > :05:36.something Obama had already verified. Ministers are terrified
:05:36. > :05:43.when they have to talk about US operations because we have this
:05:43. > :05:48.fantastic intelligence relationship with them, but guess who is the
:05:48. > :05:58.junior partner. If the junior partner gets in trouble, the top
:05:58. > :06:02.will be turned off. It is nonsense, he said, that they would circumvent
:06:02. > :06:08.the law, but he did say within that law all of the intelligence agencies
:06:08. > :06:13.in this country have the right to do targeted monitoring as long as it is
:06:13. > :06:19.proportionate and against free sorts of people - suspected terrorists,
:06:19. > :06:22.suspected criminal networks, and oversees foreign countries spying on
:06:22. > :06:32.us. Clearly he is giving some form of authority for something like
:06:32. > :06:33.
:06:33. > :06:39.this, but he will be really careful to not upset the Americans. This
:06:39. > :06:46.story has legs, doesn't it? think it does. People assume the
:06:46. > :06:49.Government has wide access to data, whether that takes the form of
:06:49. > :06:54.legalistic case-by-case applications to the likes of Google for specific
:06:54. > :07:01.bits of data, I think that will strike people as a secondary
:07:01. > :07:07.question. I am one of these pansy wishy-washy metropolitans and even I
:07:07. > :07:10.don't care. I agree, but I think people should care about it. They
:07:11. > :07:20.are not worried if you are trying to listen to Al-Qaeda, they are worried
:07:20. > :07:25.you may take -- have your information taken and used within
:07:25. > :07:34.the authorities. It is Guardian America that has been breaking these
:07:34. > :07:44.stories. The former deputy Secretary of State under Bill Clinton tweeted
:07:44. > :07:45.
:07:46. > :07:52.this morning that these are really significant revelations. Something
:07:52. > :08:01.new always comes out to give the story fresh life. The worrying part
:08:01. > :08:08.to me is the Obama Administration monitoring journalists. I think the
:08:08. > :08:12.lesson of the spectre of Obama defending Prism in public is that
:08:12. > :08:18.civil libertarianism never survives first contact with the reality of
:08:18. > :08:24.Government. People in Guant?namo know that as well. You may have
:08:24. > :08:31.forgotten our interview with Mr Jones of America, but we also had Ed
:08:31. > :08:38.Balls on the programme today! I was struck about how he included the
:08:38. > :08:44.whole of the welfare bill for the cup, including pensions. Most
:08:44. > :08:48.significantly, he included pensions. The reason they are talking about
:08:48. > :08:58.spending is because at the time of the Budget, Treasury sources said we
:08:58. > :09:02.will monitor what is known as annually managed spending, and
:09:03. > :09:06.Labour are trying to pre-empt that by announcing their own cup. In that
:09:06. > :09:13.briefing, George Osborne's aides said that would not include the
:09:13. > :09:15.triple lock, said it would not be included in that so you now have a
:09:15. > :09:20.potentially interesting position where the Labour Party is saying
:09:20. > :09:25.that we think pensions should be included in this cup, and apparently
:09:25. > :09:31.George Osborne saying it shouldn't be. I think it is phenomenally
:09:31. > :09:40.interesting because you think we have had U-turns by Labour, wait
:09:40. > :09:48.until they find out the welfare bill is half comprised of pensions.
:09:48. > :09:52.the one hand old people do vote in droves and you can imagine them
:09:52. > :09:58.being perturbed by what Ed Balls said today, but on the other hand it
:09:58. > :10:00.is a dilemma for the Tories because they looked like they overindulge
:10:00. > :10:10.elderly voters, especially prosperous ones who don't need any
:10:10. > :10:12.
:10:12. > :10:18.help, and it is hard for them to portray themselves as fiscally
:10:18. > :10:22.careful. There is talk that a recovery of sorts is under way, you
:10:22. > :10:32.wouldn't write home about it but things seem to be getting better
:10:32. > :10:36.
:10:36. > :10:41.rather than worse. His whole analysis seems to predicate it being
:10:41. > :10:46.barred. The whole Ed Balls strategy and the reason why he is potentially
:10:46. > :10:51.putting pensioners into the pot, is his strategy is to say this economy
:10:51. > :10:55.is in such a mess, caused by this Government sucking out demand at
:10:55. > :11:04.this precious stage in recovery, it is so bad we have got to accept
:11:04. > :11:09.these awful things. If the economy does begin to heal, it will be
:11:09. > :11:13.interesting whether he can carry on like that. The problem is if you are
:11:13. > :11:18.getting growths, it will probably not come quickly enough to have an
:11:18. > :11:25.immediate impact on spending. direction of travel in politics is
:11:26. > :11:31.everything, isn't it? They are heading in the right direction. We
:11:31. > :11:35.saw two very good speeches from Ed Miliband and Ed Balls this week, but
:11:35. > :11:43.Labour's credibility problem is about the past. They went into the
:11:43. > :11:48.last financial crash with a deficit after so many years of growth.
:11:48. > :11:54.the feeling now that almost day by day Parliament is tying the Prime
:11:54. > :11:57.Minister's hands, but even if he does move to give alms to the rebels
:11:57. > :12:02.or some of the rebels that he may not have a majority in parliament
:12:02. > :12:07.for it and he will have to go to Parliament to get permission.
:12:07. > :12:12.think that is a good thing. He needs to make the case about who we are
:12:12. > :12:22.arming and how long it could take. I think more democracy is the answer,
:12:22. > :12:23.
:12:23. > :12:30.not less. It means the Commons will play a major role in policy. Going
:12:30. > :12:34.to war is an accidental decision, but arming a particular group of
:12:34. > :12:40.rebels? What is interesting is the debate going on in Cabinet, and
:12:40. > :12:50.quite a few members, sensible people who are really concerned that as
:12:50. > :12:51.
:12:51. > :12:56.they say David Cameron is turning into Tony Blair on Syria and the
:12:56. > :13:01.word that is used is a moral imperative. They are concerned he is
:13:01. > :13:04.getting ahead and putting the UK potentially into a position that
:13:04. > :13:12.would not be sustainable. Would David Cameron have the freedom to
:13:12. > :13:19.supply the rebels even if he wants to? No, I don't think he will.It is
:13:19. > :13:22.time for us to go. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at noon
:13:22. > :13:25.and throughout the week on BBC Two, and we'll be back here same time