:00:38. > :00:45.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the
:00:45. > :00:48.rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference
:00:48. > :00:54.this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics
:00:54. > :01:02.councillors don't think he's doing a good job, will that be enough to
:01:02. > :01:07.partying like it's 2006, as Damian McBride's memoirs re-ignite the
:01:07. > :01:14.Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell will tell us why he is sickened
:01:14. > :01:14.Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell infighting, Conservative Party
:01:14. > :01:17.Chairman Grant Shapps will give infighting, Conservative Party
:01:17. > :01:20.response to the rampant Tory-bashing at the Lib Dem Conference And with
:01:20. > :01:21.me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:22. > :01:49.of institutional racism. Are they brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:52.of institutional racism. Are they business. Isabel Hardman, Janan
:01:52. > :01:56.be tweeting like demented Damians throughout the programme. First
:01:56. > :02:01.today, scrapping the bedroom tax. Universal childcare for primary
:02:01. > :02:04.school kids. More apprenticeships. Labour Conference only begins in
:02:04. > :02:09.earnest today, but the policy and spending commitments are coming
:02:09. > :02:13.according to the Labour leader's critics. He's been out and about
:02:13. > :02:23.this morning and told Andrew Marr that he knew it was going to be
:02:23. > :02:27.this morning and told Andrew Marr It is about a party that lost office
:02:27. > :02:32.three years ago. We are trying to be a one term opposition. That is
:02:32. > :02:38.tough. I believe it is a fight that we can win and I am up for that
:02:38. > :02:43.fight. The stakes are so high for young people who want a job, for
:02:43. > :02:48.people whose living standards are being squeezed. For people who think
:02:48. > :02:55.that this is not good enough for Britain. So what do key Labour Party
:02:55. > :02:59.activists - its councillors - think about the direction Mr Miliband
:02:59. > :03:01.activists - its councillors - think taking their party? Adam Fleming is
:03:01. > :03:08.in Brighton at the Party Conference with all the details of our latest
:03:08. > :03:18.exclusive Sunday Politics survey. conference set. Let us unwrap them.
:03:18. > :03:22.With the help of an opinion poll we surveyed 1350 Labour councillors
:03:22. > :03:27.across England and Wales. We wanted to find out what they think as
:03:27. > :03:31.Labour gathers for its conference. The Labour leader warmed up for
:03:31. > :03:33.Labour gathers for its conference. week by taking to his soap box in
:03:33. > :03:41.Brighton city centre. It is great week by taking to his soap box in
:03:41. > :03:47.councillors said they did not think Ed Miliband was doing a good job as
:03:47. > :03:49.leader. 30% said they thought the party would have a better chance if
:03:49. > :04:02.next election. You will see more of someone else was in charge at the
:04:02. > :04:09.next election. You will see more of election. He has been in the job for
:04:09. > :04:20.three years! Now it is crunch time. by roughly one third of the party as
:04:20. > :04:31.man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.
:04:31. > :04:37.diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not seem to be that bothered about our
:04:37. > :04:44.survey. Over at a conference centre When it comes to relations with
:04:44. > :04:49.trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were
:04:49. > :04:54.absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little
:04:54. > :04:59.bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.
:04:59. > :05:03.The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle
:05:03. > :05:11.from London to raise money for councillors what they would do if
:05:11. > :05:16.the next election results in a hung parliament, just over half said
:05:16. > :05:17.the next election results in a hung would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:17. > :05:21.their bikes. We would never say would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:21. > :05:25.to going into coalition. It gives us the chance to be in government and
:05:25. > :05:30.prepare some of the damage of the last three years. So are you going
:05:30. > :05:35.to start being nice about the Lib Dems? I always treat them with
:05:35. > :05:38.courtesy. And the parties admitted that perhaps they had opened the
:05:38. > :05:45.door to too many immigrants. It that perhaps they had opened the
:05:45. > :05:52.our survey Labour councillors of warming the felt that immigration
:05:52. > :06:01.We're now joined by the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel
:06:01. > :06:06.Reeves. Good morning. Let us start with Ed Miliband. Is it true that
:06:06. > :06:12.the team insisted that he be called the leader? I just call him Ed and I
:06:13. > :06:35.socialism? We are a democratic do. Do you welcome working for
:06:35. > :06:39.lives and tackle the cost of living policies that will improve people
:06:39. > :06:41.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:41. > :06:47.Policies like expanding childcare, crisis facing so many families.
:06:47. > :06:51.offering more apprenticeships, all policies that I think the country
:06:52. > :06:58.are calling out for after three years of a flat-lining economy and
:06:59. > :07:05.seeing prices rise faster than wages for 38 out of the 39 months but
:07:05. > :07:11.Minister. I think that is the most important thing. So it is OK now to
:07:11. > :07:16.risk their to the Labour Party again as the Socialist party? The clue is
:07:16. > :07:21.in the name, we stand up for working people. You are socialist party
:07:21. > :07:26.according to the leader. We have always been the Labour Party, that
:07:26. > :07:32.is our name and we stand up for working people, not the privileged
:07:32. > :07:39.few like this government with their tax cuts for millionaires. Those are
:07:39. > :07:46.privileged few. The Labour Party is about helping everyone in Britain,
:07:46. > :07:50.all families. Interesting that your run don't use the word socialist. In
:07:51. > :07:57.our survey one third of Labour councillors said Ed Miliband was not
:07:57. > :08:03.doing a good job as leader. If he councillors, who can he convince?
:08:03. > :08:08.Well you could say that two thirds of councillors think that he is
:08:08. > :08:12.Well you could say that two thirds right leader. But these are Labour
:08:12. > :08:19.councillors. The overall majority of Labour councillors think that he is
:08:19. > :08:25.doing a good job. What matters is the results on election day. Two
:08:25. > :08:30.thirds of councillors think that he is doing a good job. That us see
:08:31. > :08:33.what they say at the end of this week. Because I think the policies
:08:33. > :08:38.he is announcing will go down well week. Because I think the policies
:08:38. > :08:41.with Labour Party people and will also resonate with the British
:08:41. > :09:05.question. Just 12% see him as a apprenticeships, giving a break
:09:05. > :09:14.question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just
:09:14. > :09:16.question. Just 12% see him as a polls, we are consistently ahead in
:09:16. > :09:22.those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime
:09:22. > :09:30.Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on
:09:30. > :09:32.Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing
:09:32. > :09:38.up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing
:09:38. > :09:45.at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening
:09:45. > :09:52.ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader
:09:52. > :09:57.making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour
:09:57. > :10:01.making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to
:10:01. > :10:09.at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight
:10:09. > :10:14.are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as
:10:14. > :10:14.are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if
:10:14. > :10:18.there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if
:10:18. > :10:24.we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.
:10:24. > :10:25.we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:25. > :10:30.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:30. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:42.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:42. > :10:53.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:53. > :10:56.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:56. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:05.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:21.additional money. As it was under can charge for children to come
:11:21. > :11:21.additional money. As it was under be about ring fencing money because
:11:21. > :11:27.we think that this is a priority. be about ring fencing money because
:11:27. > :11:45.money? Well we did ring fence that should do. You cannot ring fenced
:11:45. > :11:50.money? Well we did ring fence that money in the last Labour government.
:11:50. > :11:55.That money is gone! It has not gone. It is about priorities and we are
:11:55. > :12:03.saying that it should be a priority where is the money being spent now
:12:03. > :12:07.that you would take it from? If where is the money being spent now
:12:07. > :12:10.look at some of the things that where is the money being spent now
:12:10. > :12:15.government is doing, building free schools in areas where there are
:12:15. > :12:25.already enough. That is capital spending. We are ring fencing that
:12:25. > :12:26.priorities. We had the ring fence when we were in government. It would
:12:26. > :12:32.be reintroduced so that schools when we were in government. It would
:12:32. > :12:37.to offer that wraparound care. Of course schools can charge a small
:12:37. > :12:40.to offer that wraparound care. Of fee for their breakfast clubs and
:12:40. > :12:45.after-school DVDs. But the important thing is that provision is there for
:12:45. > :12:52.parents going out to work. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband are at the heart of
:12:52. > :12:55.the Brown project. Damien Wright was the hit man. Is it not inconceivable
:12:55. > :12:59.that they did not know what he was the hit man. Is it not inconceivable
:12:59. > :13:10.up to. It is inconceivable that the hit man. Is it not inconceivable
:13:10. > :13:15.asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:15. > :13:19.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:19. > :13:26.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:26. > :13:38.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:38. > :13:43.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:43. > :13:45.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:45. > :13:56.should be sacked, I agree with that. who briefed against colleagues
:13:56. > :13:59.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of
:13:59. > :14:05.it clear he was repaired to work hung parliament. Are you excited by
:14:05. > :14:14.it clear he was repaired to work that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:14. > :14:17.it clear he was repaired to work to say that. With his poll ratings
:14:17. > :14:22.of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they
:14:22. > :14:24.want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:24. > :14:39.that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:39. > :14:41.serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:41. > :14:45.a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:45. > :14:49.we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,
:14:49. > :14:56.we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this
:14:56. > :15:02.week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think
:15:02. > :15:06.they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery
:15:06. > :15:10.has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike
:15:10. > :15:24.previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to
:15:24. > :15:27.make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The
:15:27. > :15:29.make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they
:15:29. > :15:32.make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue
:15:32. > :15:36.let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls
:15:37. > :15:43.show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards
:15:43. > :15:45.show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:45. > :15:49.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:49. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:57.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:57. > :16:03.fixing the recovery now and then economy but we will talk about
:16:03. > :16:10.living standards. Ed Miliband's economy but we will talk about
:16:10. > :16:26.thing worse than not having a policy elucidating policies and not just
:16:26. > :16:26.thing worse than not having a policy something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:26. > :16:42.you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:42. > :16:48.childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?
:16:48. > :16:50.childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare
:16:50. > :16:56.for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an
:16:57. > :17:01.art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to
:17:01. > :17:06.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:06. > :17:10.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:10. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:19.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:19. > :17:23.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:23. > :17:29.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:29. > :17:33.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:33. > :17:37.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:37. > :17:42.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:42. > :17:45.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:45. > :17:48.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:48. > :17:52.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:52. > :17:56.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:56. > :18:00.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the
:18:00. > :18:02.including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:07.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:07. > :18:10.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:14.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:14. > :18:15.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:15. > :18:18.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:18. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:33.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:33. > :18:38.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:38. > :18:41.convinced his own activists to stay convincing the British people.
:18:41. > :18:41.convinced his own activists to stay is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:52.convinced his own activists to stay have done privately that suggests
:18:52. > :18:56.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:56. > :18:56.at that group, rather than the enough at the next election to hold
:18:56. > :19:14.free school meals regardless of enough at the next election to hold
:19:14. > :19:16.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:16. > :19:18.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:18. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:20. > :19:21.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:21. > :19:23.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:23. > :19:25.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:25. > :19:28.any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:28. > :19:33.party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:33. > :19:40.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:40. > :19:42.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:43. > :19:47.have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we
:19:47. > :19:50.will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can
:19:50. > :19:55.get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel
:19:55. > :20:01.get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:01. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:13.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:13. > :20:16.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for
:20:16. > :20:18.all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is
:20:18. > :20:21.blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are
:20:21. > :20:26.interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that
:20:27. > :20:30.sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One
:20:31. > :20:47.thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is
:20:47. > :20:51.this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories
:20:51. > :21:06.this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential
:21:06. > :21:26.against his opponents, why not have annual shindig in Glasgow, some
:21:26. > :21:44.ministers were non-too complimentary nasty party and describe their
:21:44. > :21:47.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not restrict himself to policies that
:21:48. > :21:49.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not the Lib Dems had champion, such
:21:49. > :21:55.and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not increasing the amount you can earn
:21:55. > :22:00.before paying tax. The Deputy Prime Minister proudly listed all of the
:22:00. > :22:03.things he had stopped the Tories from doing. Speak of scrapping
:22:03. > :22:09.housing benefit the young people, no. No to ditching the human rights
:22:09. > :22:16.act. No to weakening the protections in the equalities act. So how much
:22:16. > :22:19.of a break have the yellow brigade being on Conservative ambitions
:22:19. > :22:23.question mark in the two leaders shake hands again after the 20
:22:23. > :22:27.question mark in the two leaders election, what policies were David
:22:27. > :22:32.Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg
:22:32. > :22:49.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:49. > :22:53.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:53. > :22:57.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:57. > :23:00.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:23:00. > :23:03.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:03. > :23:06.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:06. > :23:10.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:12.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:12. > :23:15.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:15. > :23:25.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:25. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:43.would rather see a single party negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:43. > :23:44.would rather see a single party running the country -- why so many
:23:44. > :24:01.would rather see a single party people. I have to say I agree. They
:24:01. > :24:07.would rather see a single party the one I just mentioned would be
:24:07. > :24:08.Country, we have had 1,000 years of developing the law and we are more
:24:08. > :24:11.than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more
:24:11. > :24:15.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:15. > :24:19.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:19. > :24:24.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:24. > :24:28.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:28. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:31. > :24:35.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:35. > :24:40.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:40. > :24:45.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:45. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:57.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:57. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:05.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:05. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:28.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:28. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:45.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:45. > :25:50.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:50. > :25:53.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been
:25:53. > :26:01.stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk
:26:01. > :26:07.stability in an incredibly uncertain up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about
:26:07. > :26:11.taking people out of tax, the Lib Dems did that question mark it is a
:26:11. > :26:31.great policy. It is a conservative This is a screen grab from your
:26:31. > :26:33.great policy. It is a conservative certainly came about because of
:26:33. > :26:35.great policy. It is a conservative coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:37.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:37. > :26:42.Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative
:26:42. > :26:48.right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April
:26:48. > :26:53.will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what
:26:53. > :27:07.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is
:27:07. > :27:11.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,
:27:11. > :27:15.stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would
:27:15. > :27:18.love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it
:27:18. > :27:25.love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford
:27:25. > :27:31.unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is
:27:31. > :27:34.having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition
:27:34. > :27:38.because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the
:27:38. > :27:41.because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you
:27:41. > :27:46.absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of
:27:46. > :27:54.tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all
:27:54. > :28:00.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are
:28:00. > :28:00.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority
:28:00. > :28:05.Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority
:28:05. > :28:08.unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when
:28:08. > :28:12.unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when
:28:12. > :28:17.are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more
:28:17. > :28:20.free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global
:28:20. > :28:27.trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global
:28:27. > :28:30.so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around
:28:30. > :28:32.so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is
:28:32. > :28:34.crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:34. > :28:48.things that I think we would be tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:49. > :28:52.interested in progressing in. It sounds like you are talking about
:28:52. > :28:52.interested in progressing in. It even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:52. > :29:03.you want to help the least well even more Thatcherite, market led
:29:03. > :29:08.people in society, and the least well off people in the world, around
:29:08. > :29:10.the globe, the way to do it is to trade, and I think we should have an
:29:10. > :29:14.economy which is much more open trade, and I think we should have an
:29:14. > :29:16.free trade. If there is another trade, and I think we should have an
:29:16. > :29:21.parliament, and the poll suggest there might be, at the moment it is
:29:21. > :29:27.all to play for on both sides, what would your non-negotiable Red Line
:29:27. > :29:34.speak? We are still two years away from that, it is a long way away,
:29:34. > :29:39.but there is a lot we want to lay out. What we are going to be saying
:29:39. > :29:43.to this country is most people want a single party running the country,
:29:43. > :29:48.they think it is clean and clear and you don't end up with negotiation
:29:48. > :29:50.setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working
:29:50. > :29:53.people in this country who want which will be for hard-working
:29:53. > :29:58.work hard and get on in life. We would, I think, want to see the
:29:58. > :30:02.welfare state that we have got into, where it is no longer about helping
:30:02. > :30:05.those most in need but became a situation where you are better off
:30:05. > :30:08.not working than in worker, I think we plan to ensure that this is an
:30:08. > :30:12.incredibly fair place to go out we plan to ensure that this is an
:30:12. > :30:16.do a day's work and get the money at the end of the day rather than
:30:16. > :30:20.thinking there is an alternative. you have promised a referendum on UK
:30:20. > :30:27.membership of the EU in 2017, that must be your first Red Line? We
:30:27. > :30:30.membership of the EU in 2017, that clear, we want to see a referendum,
:30:30. > :30:37.a reform European Union. So no poll... ? I should remind viewers
:30:37. > :30:43.that there is an act of Parliament, a bill going through Parliament
:30:43. > :30:49.right now, for a referendum on the EU, which comes back to the House.
:30:49. > :30:56.It is past the report stage and be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:56. > :31:01.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:01. > :31:17.manifesto. What is wrong with yes or want. Lots may have changed. But it
:31:17. > :31:17.manifesto. What is wrong with yes or no? I cannot write the manifesto for
:31:17. > :31:26.2015. You are asking me to project no? I cannot write the manifesto for
:31:26. > :31:31.2015. You are asking me to project negotiations that are yet to come.
:31:31. > :31:40.2015. You are asking me to project much... I know you are committed but
:31:40. > :31:45.she won't tell me. Let's move on. Your party has been described as
:31:45. > :31:50.nasty and blinkered. What do you feel when he says that? We are
:31:50. > :31:58.interested in helping the most vulnerable people in society. I
:31:58. > :32:03.think we're doing all that and more. And it is a shame that that language
:32:03. > :32:08.was used because we have made so much progress together. Are you
:32:08. > :32:22.getting to the end of your tether with Mr King? I do not think it
:32:22. > :32:25.getting to the end of your tether terribly helpful for any Cabinet
:32:25. > :32:35.minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg
:32:35. > :32:40.minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and
:32:40. > :32:48.himself. Look at these figures on party membership. Why has your party
:32:48. > :32:54.lost half of its members since Mr Cameron became leader? I would like
:32:54. > :32:59.it to be more. But I think the world has changed. People do not rush
:32:59. > :33:03.it to be more. But I think the world and join political parties as they
:33:03. > :33:11.used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the
:33:11. > :33:15.number of people who give to the party in different ways, through
:33:15. > :33:24.donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include
:33:24. > :33:24.donations for example, through that that figure goes back up. But
:33:24. > :33:35.a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But
:33:35. > :33:43.not want to to misinterpret what I election. But one statistic of
:33:43. > :33:58.members. I think we will have done election. But one statistic of
:33:58. > :34:05.constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the
:34:05. > :34:14.doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of
:34:14. > :34:24.people, volunteers who are not days when you expect people to give
:34:25. > :34:33.you £25, before you accept their spoke about your most vulnerable
:34:33. > :34:46.marginal seats. This is a poll from marginal seats that you will be
:34:46. > :34:49.defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What
:34:49. > :35:00.is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- way down and UKIP is also up. What
:35:00. > :35:06.disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures
:35:06. > :35:12.came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about
:35:12. > :35:18.any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is
:35:18. > :35:27.taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the
:35:27. > :35:30.corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people
:35:30. > :35:36.being asked about these things, deal with the deficit. The people
:35:36. > :35:42.will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:42. > :35:50.payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League
:35:50. > :35:53.you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:35:53. > :36:06.come 2015, people will see that Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:36:06. > :36:21.demonstrates that the last thing Labour. Well if that is the pick to
:36:22. > :36:29.one message was to go all out and attack Ed Miliband. It is going
:36:29. > :36:34.one message was to go all out and actually not true. We are going
:36:34. > :36:37.one message was to go all out and focus on his policies, if he finally
:36:37. > :36:42.announces some. Everything we have seen so far suggests it would mean
:36:42. > :36:51.more borrowing and spending. The shadow chancellor said we would
:36:51. > :36:59.more borrowing and spending. The ruthless, just a few months later,
:36:59. > :37:11.committed by Labour. These are your figures. I will speak to you about
:37:11. > :37:17.watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair
:37:17. > :37:30.not-too-positive review of Damian McBride's memoirs. Until then, the
:37:30. > :37:36.Sunday Politics across the UK. Hello and welcome to the London
:37:36. > :37:38.Sunday Politics across the UK. of the Sunday Politics. Joining
:37:38. > :37:40.Sunday Politics across the UK. for the next 20 minutes or so, Bob
:37:40. > :37:43.Blackman, Conservative MP for Harrow East and the Labour MP for Tooting
:37:43. > :37:48.and shadow London minister, Sadiq programme. Is Labour institutionally
:37:49. > :37:50.racist. That's the accusation being made by some of the party's former
:37:50. > :37:58.councillors. There is a disease made by some of the party's former
:37:58. > :38:02.the party that needs to be sorted out. But first let's start with
:38:02. > :38:04.the party that needs to be sorted seems like a bit of Groundhog day
:38:04. > :38:08.news. The eminent surgeon Lord Ara Darzi has been asked to look into
:38:08. > :38:10.the state, and the future of the NHS in London. Those of you with half
:38:10. > :38:12.decent memories may well recall in London. Those of you with half
:38:13. > :38:14.did that once before, six years in London. Those of you with half
:38:14. > :38:16.But his health care for London in London. Those of you with half
:38:16. > :38:25.was then scrapped when the coalition came to power. But he's back. This
:38:25. > :38:33.going round in circles on this one? new health care commission. We are
:38:33. > :38:53.going round in circles on this one? Johnson has seen the sense in asking
:38:53. > :38:58.throwing his plans in the bin. In my part of the world we had a proposal
:38:58. > :39:05.to close down nine hospitals in London. That was not a popular move.
:39:05. > :39:09.What Boris Johnson is doing is reviewing health care and he is
:39:09. > :39:17.right to do that. Boris Johnson reviewing health care and he is
:39:17. > :39:27.looking after the interests of Londoners. If the mayor does the
:39:27. > :39:36.right thing for London, then I will support him. Local authorities now
:39:36. > :39:42.have a duty on public health. They are actually building up to take
:39:42. > :39:46.Because we have people from all around the world coming here. He
:39:46. > :39:51.wants to make sure that London gets around the world coming here. He
:39:51. > :40:02.its fair share of money from the government. That is the great power
:40:02. > :40:07.Johnson. I look forward to the fact that he is standing up for Londoners
:40:07. > :40:14.against anyone and everyone on behalf of of Londoners. That is
:40:14. > :40:19.against anyone and everyone on job. The government has wasted
:40:19. > :40:20.against anyone and everyone on pleased that Boris Johnson has
:40:20. > :40:24.finally woken up. Three years too pleased that Boris Johnson has
:40:24. > :40:28.finally woken up. Three years too late and millions of pounds wasted.
:40:28. > :40:31.We will leave it there for now. Sadiq, of course, will be enjoying
:40:31. > :40:34.the sea air in Brighton this week, as Labour's annual jamboree rolls
:40:34. > :40:38.into town. Centre stage, we're told, will be the issue of the Cost of
:40:38. > :40:40.Living. And the party leader has announcement. Ed Miliband says
:40:40. > :40:44.Bedroom Tax. What the government Labour will scrap what it calls
:40:44. > :40:46.Bedroom Tax. What the government calls the Spare Room Subsidy. What
:40:46. > :40:49.normal folk might see more simply as cuts to housing benefit for those
:40:49. > :40:51.deemed to be living in homes that are too big for them. I caught up
:40:51. > :41:05.The first thing we're going to do is are too big for them. I caught up
:41:05. > :41:10.end the bedroom tax. Many of the families affected are disabled.
:41:10. > :41:11.end the bedroom tax. Many of the know it is not working. People are
:41:11. > :41:22.being threatened with eviction. know it is not working. People are
:41:22. > :41:24.stand up for these families and know it is not working. People are
:41:24. > :41:29.kick them in the teeth like this government. You will pay for that I
:41:29. > :41:35.taxing hedge funds again. Is it going back to the days when Labour
:41:35. > :41:37.bashes the bankers? It is about fairness and making a decision about
:41:37. > :41:44.how you spend scarce resources. fairness and making a decision about
:41:44. > :41:46.you ask most people is it right fairness and making a decision about
:41:46. > :41:48.give a tax break to hedge funds fairness and making a decision about
:41:48. > :41:54.while the poorest people are in hardship, I would say the fairest
:41:54. > :42:00.choice is to reverse the tax cut for the hedge funds and end the bedroom
:42:00. > :42:06.tax. That is the right choice. People would say that this policy
:42:06. > :42:11.just affects 80,000 people. Most Londoners are actually worried about
:42:11. > :42:17.high rent. What can you do about that and building more homes? We
:42:17. > :42:25.will show right across the board housing, we will tackle the cost of
:42:25. > :42:35.will show right across the board living crisis. We will introduce
:42:35. > :42:37.landlords, they can be struck off. We're looking at ways that councils
:42:37. > :42:45.renting to drive down rent. And We're looking at ways that councils
:42:46. > :42:50.are looking at ways to build more homes. Will you allow councils to
:42:50. > :42:57.borrow more money to do that? I building more homes. And to deny
:42:57. > :43:04.that is wrong. It has to be done within affordable units. It does not
:43:04. > :43:09.sound like a clear commitment. Londoners want to know if you will
:43:09. > :43:18.stimulate growth and do what a lot want. We will make that a priority
:43:18. > :43:24.and we will talk exact the about what we can do. We are already
:43:24. > :43:50.of pounds in new housing. We'll developers sitting on land. People
:43:50. > :43:53.of pounds in new housing. We'll should not be allowed the loophole
:43:53. > :43:59.allowing them to charge fares over and above the cap, which is what
:43:59. > :44:06.this government has allowed. I'm amendments. That is a policy that
:44:06. > :44:13.will affect millions who travel amendments. That is a policy that
:44:13. > :44:14.and around London every day. So people would expect a commitment.
:44:14. > :44:19.People want to commit and is on people would expect a commitment.
:44:19. > :44:23.lot of issues. They also want a government that is credible. And I'm
:44:23. > :44:26.determined to deliver that so I government that is credible. And I'm
:44:26. > :44:33.only make commitments we know we can keep. With the bedroom tax we're
:44:33. > :44:47.confident that we can find the money to do that. Obviously to make a
:44:47. > :44:53.Conservative? That is what has happened in Harrow were in fighting
:44:53. > :44:58.in your party has meant that people who voted for Labour now have the
:44:58. > :45:03.Tory leadership. You always get issues in local councils. But people
:45:03. > :45:21.should vote Labour if they want someone to tackle the cost of living
:45:21. > :45:26.delivers. I'm incredibly proud of the Labour councils across London,
:45:26. > :45:29.who are delivering. I can say that as a Labour leader that is proud of
:45:29. > :45:31.who are delivering. I can say that the councils, that wasn't always
:45:31. > :45:34.true but they do a fantastic job. We will be returning to Harrow in a
:45:34. > :45:41.minute, but on the bedroom tax, We will be returning to Harrow in a
:45:41. > :45:45.subsidy has outlawed in the Private sector the sometime -- the spare
:45:45. > :45:49.room subsidy. So we are looking sector the sometime -- the spare
:45:49. > :46:06.the social sector. This announcement overcrowded accommodation or waited
:46:06. > :46:06.the social sector. This announcement keep it empty. There are clearly
:46:07. > :46:21.extra room but it is an unfair keep it empty. There are clearly
:46:21. > :46:27.policy. the policy is moving against the spare room policy, two thirds of
:46:27. > :46:31.scrapped and even one third of people in... I think the reality is
:46:32. > :46:36.that when you present it in a way of saying it is a tax, it isn't a tax.
:46:36. > :46:40.It is clearly a subsidy that comes from the taxpayer who is subsidising
:46:41. > :46:50.their properties. There are not people to give an empty room in
:46:50. > :46:52.their properties. There are not one-bedroom properties in London
:46:52. > :46:59.and... One of the problems in London is that we haven't built housing
:46:59. > :47:08.penalise people for... No, we need the range and type of housing,
:47:08. > :47:10.particularly adapted housing or disabled and elderly people that is
:47:10. > :47:18.appropriate to their needs and we don't have that. The reason Bobby
:47:18. > :47:23.Michael Portillo when it came to the poll tax 13 years ago, trying to
:47:23. > :47:27.defend the indefensible. I have constituents in the armed services
:47:27. > :47:37.and they know have to pay a bedroom reasonably keep the bedroom for
:47:37. > :47:41.and they know have to pay a bedroom Other families in under crowded
:47:41. > :47:46.accommodation because of this tax. This is not like the poll tax. Under
:47:46. > :47:48.your own figures, this affects 80,000 people. That is not the poll
:47:48. > :47:55.tax. The similarity is there is 80,000 people. That is not the poll
:47:55. > :48:00.thought given to how it affects bigger families, to those who are
:48:00. > :48:06.overcrowded, and another example of looking after the privileged few. Is
:48:06. > :48:35.saying it is dog whistle politics. I looking after the privileged few. Is
:48:35. > :48:47.morally just. Means people who live those who need a essential NHS
:48:47. > :48:55.equipment in their bedrooms which briefly, it does show where we going
:48:55. > :48:59.on the battle ground, the cost of living will beware the election
:48:59. > :49:03.on the battle ground, the cost of won and lost. Absolutely. And I
:49:03. > :49:05.on the battle ground, the cost of to the of London, the Mayor rather
:49:05. > :49:09.needs to fix the increase in Tube fares and bus fares in January to
:49:09. > :49:13.inflation, rather than doing what he has done every year for the last
:49:13. > :49:22.seven years, which is doing it above expensive public transport in the
:49:22. > :49:26.world. Sorted out. The current issue investment in transport to make
:49:26. > :49:27.world. Sorted out. The current issue we have first-class Tube services,
:49:27. > :49:34.bus services and rail services. we have first-class Tube services,
:49:34. > :49:36.provided? Some has to come from we have first-class Tube services,
:49:37. > :49:41.taxpayer, Sun has come from the fares and some has to come from
:49:41. > :49:43.council tax. I have to talk about Harrow, because I know you do like
:49:43. > :49:47.talking about this. If politics Harrow, because I know you do like
:49:48. > :49:51.about anything, it is about power, so much of the activity at Labour
:49:51. > :49:58.conference this week will surely be elections in London, when every
:49:58. > :50:02.borough is up for grabs. For years, Labour's performance at the ballot
:50:02. > :50:07.box has relied on black and Asian voters signing up for them. In one
:50:07. > :50:13.estimate, 70% of ethnic voters support the party, but the party has
:50:13. > :50:17.seen in recent years accusations of The darker bits on this map show the
:50:17. > :50:22.part of London with the heaviest concentration of black and Asian
:50:22. > :50:25.residents. There is a striking correlation in the councils won
:50:25. > :50:25.residents. There is a striking Labour in the 2010 local elections.
:50:25. > :50:30.Since then, Labour has lost two Labour in the 2010 local elections.
:50:30. > :50:32.those authorities, Tower Hamlets and Harrow, both as a result of splits
:50:32. > :50:39.in the local party that resulted in Harrow, both as a result of splits
:50:39. > :50:44.in the Labour Party. In Harrow, majority after 2010. But it remained
:50:45. > :50:49.a Labour council until May this own leader. He thought he was the
:50:49. > :51:21.Independent Labour one the Council victim of racial discrimination
:51:21. > :51:26.investigate what was going on. We were not leaving the Labour Party.
:51:26. > :51:31.against us in the press and then were not leaving the Labour Party.
:51:31. > :51:34.against us in the press and then expel us. So we had no choice. There
:51:34. > :51:40.is a disease in the party that needs to be sorted out. There is a disease
:51:40. > :51:47.encouraging discrimination and racism? Absolutely, I believe that.
:51:47. > :51:48.Across London in Tower Hamlets, Labour lost power after the Borough
:51:48. > :51:59.moved from a traditional council set moved from a traditional council set
:51:59. > :52:03.up to a elected Mayor. Lutfur Rahman was as the step down after doubts
:52:03. > :52:11.about the way he was selected. Jim Phillips said that the Tower Hamlets
:52:11. > :52:16.group had acted... Lutfur Rahman went to win on the election as an
:52:16. > :52:21.independent. In the town Hall this week, he says he saw similarities in
:52:21. > :52:30.what happened in East London and question, where does natural justice
:52:30. > :52:35.it in certain parts of the Labour Party. What has happened in Harrow
:52:35. > :52:39.disappoints me. For it to be played out again into local authorities,
:52:39. > :52:44.prominent local authorities, it demonstrates that Labour should
:52:44. > :52:47.prominent local authorities, it working-class votes, black and
:52:47. > :52:52.ethnic minority vote, for granted. On the streets this week, Labour's
:52:52. > :52:57.candidate John Biggs. His message is that Labour is the party for all
:52:57. > :53:01.ethnicities and Lutfur Rahman is focused on only one. All of his
:53:01. > :53:07.councillors from the Bangladeshi community and the primary focus
:53:07. > :53:10.councillors from the Bangladeshi his policy-making has been for one
:53:10. > :53:13.community, very important one, but not the only one. My outlook is
:53:13. > :53:15.community, very important one, but all of the community lives together
:53:15. > :53:15.community, very important one, but and works together and maximises
:53:15. > :53:26.of high-value jobs coming into the of high-value jobs coming into the
:53:26. > :53:28.getting them. What we don't want to have is small communities which
:53:28. > :53:28.getting them. What we don't want to separate from each other and very
:53:28. > :53:34.will pass them by. Come election day separate from each other and very
:53:34. > :53:45.next May, at least in this part separate from each other and very
:53:45. > :53:49.party? I don't agree with that. separate from each other and very
:53:49. > :53:53.have spent my life, both as a lawyer and a politician, and you have to be
:53:53. > :53:57.very careful when you play the race card. In politics you win some and
:53:57. > :54:08.you lose some. Lutfur Rahman lost the election and others lose and
:54:08. > :54:12.when they lose, they decide to stand against the whip. If you do, it
:54:12. > :54:13.when they lose, they decide to stand not unreasonable for you to be
:54:13. > :54:20.suspended and expelled from the complacent and would not accept
:54:20. > :54:22.suspended and expelled from the racism in London or anywhere in
:54:22. > :54:27.suspended and expelled from the country. Have you investigated the
:54:27. > :54:31.the council have looked into the allegations. None of them were
:54:31. > :54:41.upheld, which reassures me. We are making sure we have a Labour Party
:54:41. > :54:45.minority, 12 x 5% of the leaders of Labour councils in London are ethnic
:54:45. > :54:51.minority -- Torpoint five. Did the NEC look at this? As a member of
:54:51. > :54:56.this, when somebody votes against the whip, there is disciplinary
:54:56. > :54:59.before... You don't send consent, because the split in Harrow was
:54:59. > :55:03.before... You don't send consent, much based along race grounds. No,
:55:03. > :55:04.it wasn't. There are more ethnic one at two Labour councillors in Harrow
:55:04. > :55:12.together. And in Tower Hamlets, at two Labour councillors in Harrow
:55:12. > :55:19.have a candidate who is a one nation Labour candidate appealing to all
:55:19. > :55:24.You will have a view on what is happening is there is a massive
:55:24. > :55:28.split in the Labour group and what has happened is the Labour Party
:55:28. > :55:37.took ethnic minority councillors, in particular, the granted. What they
:55:37. > :55:39.was unwell and had to resign, was replaced by his deputy. After six
:55:39. > :55:45.months, the Labour Party then kick replaced by his deputy. After six
:55:45. > :55:48.him out for another white candidate. ambitious and wanted his position.
:55:48. > :56:04.Then equally, all of the people ambitious and wanted his position.
:56:04. > :56:09.from it, I think it is personal ambition that has taken place. But
:56:09. > :56:10.from it, I think it is personal politics is a dirty game! What I do
:56:10. > :56:15.you elect someone who is the leader think it is fair to say is that
:56:15. > :56:15.you elect someone who is the leader of the council, you have to give
:56:15. > :56:19.them some period of time in order to of the council, you have to give
:56:19. > :56:24.do a job. Your party has some work to do as well. Absolutely, we have a
:56:24. > :56:28.problem going back historically to do as well. Absolutely, we have a
:56:28. > :56:31.attracting black and ethnic minority people to our party. We have had a
:56:31. > :56:39.problem in terms of getting councils Conservative group in Harrow is
:56:39. > :56:44.problem in terms of getting councils ethnic minorities -- half. If the
:56:44. > :56:45.results are better this time, we will have more than a majority of
:56:46. > :56:53.will see how that pans out. And will have more than a majority of
:56:53. > :57:05.it is time for the rest of the week's use in 60 seconds -- and
:57:05. > :57:08.Greenwich Peninsula to the Royal docks has been labelled a flight but
:57:08. > :57:13.looks to be coming down to earth. Only 20,000 people used the car
:57:13. > :57:15.looks to be coming down to earth. to the end of September, 40,000
:57:15. > :57:20.people for the same week last year. A Muslim woman from London who
:57:20. > :57:25.demanded the right to stand trial wearing a niqab has been told she
:57:25. > :57:30.Judge Peter Murphy told Black Friars Crown Court that it was essential
:57:30. > :57:35.for the jurors to see her reaction Data from the Office of National
:57:35. > :57:39.Statistics show London house prices have surged by 10% over the last
:57:39. > :57:53.year, starting fears of a dangerous in July, up by £13,000. Tottenham
:57:53. > :57:59.offensive to many Jews should not be describing themselves as such and
:57:59. > :58:09.Yes, we will pick up on that last describing themselves as such and
:58:09. > :58:18.Yes, we will pick up on that last course, that we will use once, was
:58:18. > :58:23.themselves as that. You Tottenham fan, jee referred yourself is that?
:58:24. > :58:24.themselves as that. You Tottenham I do, and the reality is where I
:58:24. > :58:33.the country about the gassing of the I do, and the reality is where I
:58:34. > :58:37.the country about the gassing of the Jews and hissing, as if imitating
:58:37. > :58:39.the country about the gassing of the gas attack, and it is hatred. What
:58:39. > :58:43.we do as a response as Tottenham fans is say we are proud of the
:58:43. > :58:45.we do as a response as Tottenham that we are that and we are not
:58:45. > :58:57.going to take it any more. And the concentration camps and gas chambers
:58:57. > :59:01.I am very uncomfortable with people trying to normalise the Y-word or
:59:01. > :59:05.the N word or the P-word, and my concern is that you are normalising
:59:05. > :59:15.the use of that word and if others can I. The same relation niqab
:59:15. > :59:17.the use of that word and if others the same thing goes for the N word
:59:17. > :59:21.in relation to youth culture and let's try and not normalise words
:59:21. > :59:25.that go back to dark scores in the history of humanity. I do want to do
:59:25. > :59:28.the time but we will stick with football. Can I read your quote
:59:28. > :59:30.the time but we will stick with see if you can guess who said it. If
:59:30. > :59:32.the time but we will stick with I was at the edge of the box on
:59:32. > :59:34.the time but we will stick with ball came three and I thought I
:59:34. > :59:35.the time but we will stick with the best chance of shooting and
:59:35. > :59:42.scoring, then I might do it. Who said it and what were they referring
:59:42. > :59:46.to? I don't know. Martin Chivers? Steven Gerrard, when he's playing
:59:46. > :59:52.for Liverpool. It is you, and you are talking about being Mayor in
:59:52. > :59:55.London. Boris Johnson said would become a use of football. Maybe
:59:55. > :59:59.London. Boris Johnson said would difference between Conservatives and
:59:59. > :00:03.Labour. You are considering it? I am happy being the MP for capnext Mayor
:00:03. > :00:14.Minister -- for Tooting. If the happy being the MP for capnext Mayor
:00:14. > :00:19.came free at the edge of the box? If I can shoot and score, I will, but
:00:20. > :00:32.only if the ball comes to me. Bob Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks
:00:33. > :00:34.only if the ball comes to me. Bob much. Leafing through the papers the
:00:34. > :00:38.only if the ball comes to me. Bob last few days has taken me back
:00:38. > :00:40.only if the ball comes to me. Bob my youth. The halcyon days of the
:00:40. > :00:44.only if the ball comes to me. Bob 2000s, when the warring Blairite and
:00:44. > :00:50.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:50. > :01:00.of Labour's Conference. They detail timed for maximum impact in the
:01:00. > :01:05.of Labour's Conference. They detail colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:05. > :01:13.tooth and nail to promote the man he met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:14.tooth and nail to promote the man he is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:14. > :01:20.tooth and nail to promote the man he Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:21. > :01:29.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:29. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:39.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at
:01:39. > :01:42.in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies
:01:42. > :01:51.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:59.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:59. > :02:04.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:04. > :02:08.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:08. > :02:15.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:15. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:27.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:27. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:35.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:35. > :02:41.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:41. > :02:48.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:48. > :02:52.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:52. > :02:59.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:59. > :03:05.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:05. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:13.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:13. > :03:39.If we had all stuck together I think did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:43.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:43. > :03:51.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:58.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:58. > :04:04.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:04. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:15.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:15. > :04:21.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:21. > :04:29.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:29. > :04:42.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:42. > :04:53.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:53. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,
:05:03. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness
:05:03. > :05:09.and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness
:05:09. > :05:15.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:15. > :05:17.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:17. > :05:23.coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:23. > :05:27.coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others
:05:27. > :05:32.were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I
:05:32. > :05:44.me that that was what was happening. certainly knew that they thought
:05:44. > :05:51.me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never
:05:51. > :06:02.Gordon Brown would have been an leaders, it is ultimately up to
:06:02. > :06:05.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:05. > :06:12.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:12. > :06:15.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:15. > :06:19.giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and
:06:19. > :06:29.politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.
:06:29. > :06:33.What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We
:06:33. > :06:39.have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get
:06:39. > :06:42.have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is
:06:42. > :06:45.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:45. > :06:51.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:06:51. > :07:04.I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:04. > :07:14.about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it
:07:14. > :07:19.with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp
:07:19. > :07:29.about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect
:07:29. > :07:29.about some of these activities at see that there is full on both
:07:29. > :07:35.sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both
:07:35. > :07:38.case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both
:07:38. > :07:43.over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown
:07:43. > :07:49.and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the
:07:49. > :07:58.retaliation rather than initiation. things but they did then by way
:07:58. > :08:00.retaliation rather than initiation. The one-time when I did lose it
:08:00. > :08:01.retaliation rather than initiation. the whole psychological force thing.
:08:01. > :08:13.when we were relentlessly being the whole psychological force thing.
:08:13. > :08:18.journalists. I would go along to the whole psychological force thing.
:08:19. > :08:24.had to sit there and not hit back. the whole psychological force thing.
:08:24. > :08:27.would have anything to do with the whole psychological force thing.
:08:27. > :08:30.You get to the stage where your the whole psychological force thing.
:08:30. > :08:40.credibility is on the line. Coming promotion of alcohol awareness.
:08:40. > :08:42.credibility is on the line. Coming before that the Labour Party, you
:08:42. > :08:49.never had to deal with this in opposition because you were pretty
:08:49. > :08:57.far ahead in the polls by midterm. This time that is not the case.
:08:57. > :09:01.far ahead in the polls by midterm. is surprisingly narrow. What advice
:09:01. > :09:07.would you give to Ed Miliband? To keep his head out side of this
:09:07. > :09:11.bubble but it's all about him. And to use this week to really speak to
:09:11. > :09:19.the British people about himself, particularly the kind of policy
:09:19. > :09:27.agenda he is shaping for the future. And start to heart -- start to hit
:09:27. > :09:29.the Tories hard. They're not pop, they're not competent. They're
:09:29. > :09:35.screwing up the health service. they're not competent. They're
:09:35. > :09:42.yet they are neck and neck. I would say that the whole Shadow Cabinet
:09:42. > :09:46.understand that you win elections by wanting to win elections every
:09:46. > :09:54.minute of every day. There is too much complacency. A small lead now
:09:54. > :10:01.you have to grow that. You do that with energy and conviction and
:10:01. > :10:08.policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole bead in the run-up to 1997. We were
:10:08. > :10:14.winning seat where we had not even campaigned and he was saying, why
:10:14. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:20.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:20. > :10:29.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:29. > :10:35.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:35. > :11:01.Why is that, is it cultural? I think reception of the week! There is
:11:01. > :11:04.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:04. > :11:17.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:17. > :11:20.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:20. > :11:26.problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:26. > :11:29.100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:29. > :11:42.million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young
:11:42. > :11:46.million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in
:11:46. > :11:49.the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.
:11:49. > :11:56.did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:07.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:07. > :12:14.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:14. > :12:22.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:22. > :12:28.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:28. > :12:34.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:34. > :12:42.emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and
:12:42. > :12:52.advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash
:12:52. > :12:58.advertising. How have we allowed with it. What we did I think on
:12:58. > :13:04.Availability and price either too means by which you can bring this
:13:04. > :13:13.down. And the country that has had the biggest success on this is
:13:13. > :13:26.much for that. That's all for today. Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:26. > :13:27.much for that. That's all for today. from the man who wants to be the
:13:28. > :13:29.next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday