:00:41. > :00:47.Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU
:00:47. > :00:52.election? We talk to the Tory rebel demanding one next year, that is our
:00:52. > :00:55.top story. As government ministers prepare to decide how the press
:00:55. > :01:10.should be regulated, what will be You are talking about the colour of
:01:10. > :01:17.peoples faces?! We will hear from In London, dozens of police stations
:01:17. > :02:06.He will try to force a vote in the go under the hammer, City Hall says
:02:06. > :02:08.He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa
:02:08. > :02:08.He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC
:02:08. > :02:12.earlier this morning. I think he has was asked about his plans on the BBC
:02:12. > :02:19.earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need
:02:19. > :02:23.to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put
:02:23. > :02:29.that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a
:02:29. > :02:38.flea bite or a real threat? I think the next election, a Conservative
:02:38. > :02:41.Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement
:02:41. > :02:47.with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British
:02:47. > :02:48.people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly
:02:48. > :02:52.could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly
:02:52. > :02:57.putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could
:02:57. > :03:03.jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio.
:03:03. > :03:06.Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would
:03:06. > :03:13.have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be
:03:13. > :03:18.time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in
:03:18. > :03:22.2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started
:03:22. > :03:24.negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain
:03:25. > :03:28.and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate
:03:28. > :03:33.and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay,
:03:33. > :03:37.strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time
:03:37. > :03:40.for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has
:03:40. > :03:45.not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our
:03:45. > :03:46.timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I
:03:46. > :03:53.think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I
:03:53. > :03:57.a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need
:03:58. > :03:59.certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for
:03:59. > :04:03.ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for
:04:03. > :04:05.conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is
:04:05. > :04:08.essential that Parliament and MPs want to cause trouble, but it is
:04:08. > :04:10.essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their
:04:10. > :04:13.souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That
:04:13. > :04:15.would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I
:04:15. > :04:22.said, it strengthens the Prime clarity for the future, and like I
:04:22. > :04:24.You right in the Mail on Sunday clarity for the future, and like I
:04:24. > :04:26.the people are not convinced there clarity for the future, and like I
:04:26. > :04:44.there are too many uncertainties the headline was not the headline I
:04:44. > :04:47.there are too many uncertainties Conservatives will win the election,
:04:47. > :04:48.there are too many uncertainties I hope we will, they may not be
:04:48. > :04:52.convinced the renegotiation will be good enough, that there will be
:04:52. > :04:57.convinced the renegotiation will be referendum. Do you trust David
:04:57. > :05:01.That is why we need to bring the referendum forward, there is time to
:05:01. > :05:06.negotiate, and we tidy up the issue that has been hanging around for too
:05:06. > :05:08.long. Do you trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum in 2017? I
:05:08. > :05:17.Minister, and of course I trust deliver a referendum in 2017? I
:05:17. > :05:22.referendum? There as only variables in between. What I am doing with
:05:22. > :05:24.referendum? There as only variables this amendment, is to try to be
:05:24. > :05:25.referendum? There as only variables is that Parliament and every MP
:05:25. > :05:28.referendum? There as only variables the opportunity decide whether they
:05:28. > :05:29.want to be sure of a referendum within this parliament, or maybe
:05:29. > :05:34.leave it to the vagaries of what may within this parliament, or maybe
:05:34. > :05:40.happen in 2015. Supposing you got your way, how would you vote? Like
:05:40. > :05:43.Michael Gove, I would vote for us to leave as of today, but there will be
:05:43. > :05:45.Michael Gove, I would vote for us to an enormous amount of pressure on
:05:45. > :05:49.European Union leaders to come forward with proposals. If they
:05:49. > :05:50.European Union leaders to come to say, the mandate is not ever
:05:51. > :05:56.closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us
:05:56. > :05:58.more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us
:05:58. > :06:01.our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to
:06:01. > :06:06.happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in
:06:06. > :06:09.negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in
:06:09. > :06:12.people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime
:06:12. > :06:15.Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime
:06:15. > :06:21.Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It
:06:21. > :06:25.certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five
:06:25. > :06:30.weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you,
:06:30. > :06:36.motions coming forward, and I know is your motion! There will be other
:06:36. > :06:38.motions coming forward, and I know cross-party, for people who want the
:06:38. > :06:46.British public to have a say in 2014. You know it is not going to
:06:46. > :06:55.successes, apparently, of your this from happening. One of the
:06:55. > :07:07.successes, apparently, of your settled. Here you are bringing it
:07:07. > :07:07.successes, apparently, of your with my conscience as to whether or
:07:07. > :07:11.not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or
:07:11. > :07:16.British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with
:07:16. > :07:20.it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for
:07:20. > :07:23.each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and
:07:23. > :07:28.decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the
:07:28. > :07:30.headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition
:07:30. > :07:38.publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition
:07:38. > :07:40.would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this
:07:40. > :07:45.opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this
:07:45. > :07:49.say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a
:07:49. > :07:53.say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle
:07:53. > :07:56.with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the
:07:56. > :07:58.panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with
:07:58. > :08:03.him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with
:08:03. > :08:10.that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most
:08:10. > :08:14.prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if
:08:14. > :08:19.you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in
:08:19. > :08:24.charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed.
:08:24. > :08:30.They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill
:08:30. > :08:34.is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.
:08:34. > :08:37.It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the
:08:37. > :08:40.next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that
:08:40. > :08:43.all the future government would theoretically impossible and that
:08:43. > :08:46.is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that
:08:46. > :08:52.Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that
:08:52. > :08:57.nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David
:08:57. > :09:02.Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed dangerous. The problem for David
:09:02. > :09:05.Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support
:09:05. > :09:08.Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would
:09:08. > :09:14.Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to
:09:14. > :09:23.significant number of Labour MPs do Conservative backbenchers, and
:09:23. > :09:36.significant number of Labour MPs do that war you might well find that
:09:36. > :09:40.membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able
:09:40. > :09:41.to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking
:09:42. > :09:50.think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking
:09:50. > :09:51.what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could
:09:51. > :09:56.not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could
:09:56. > :10:02.a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is
:10:02. > :10:09.has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some
:10:09. > :10:12.pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were
:10:12. > :10:17.going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of
:10:17. > :10:22.the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to
:10:22. > :10:27.hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an
:10:27. > :10:32.operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters,
:10:32. > :10:35.operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign
:10:35. > :10:44.is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy
:10:44. > :10:50.under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am
:10:50. > :10:52.pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton
:10:52. > :10:59.is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton
:10:59. > :11:04.bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main
:11:04. > :11:09.episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David
:11:09. > :11:14.Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope
:11:14. > :11:17.Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is
:11:17. > :11:22.in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do
:11:22. > :11:28.you want to buy a house? Can you not the 20% or 30% deposit the
:11:28. > :11:32.mortgage provider is demanding from you? The Government says it has
:11:32. > :11:32.mortgage provider is demanding from scheme designed for you which is in
:11:32. > :11:40.launching next week, help to buy, scheme designed for you which is in
:11:40. > :11:48.launching next week, help to buy, remember them?! But is the policy
:11:48. > :11:50.launching next week, help to buy, Never mind who lives in a house
:11:50. > :11:51.launching next week, help to buy, this, who can afford to buy a house
:11:51. > :11:59.these days? The Government would this, who can afford to buy a house
:11:59. > :12:04.the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to
:12:04. > :12:05.the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two
:12:05. > :12:26.been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early.
:12:26. > :12:30.Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this
:12:30. > :12:35.scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really
:12:35. > :12:41.works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is
:12:41. > :12:41.works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a
:12:41. > :12:47.value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to
:12:48. > :12:51.Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up
:12:51. > :12:58.to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up
:12:58. > :13:01.time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first
:13:01. > :13:04.losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first
:13:04. > :13:09.future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if
:13:09. > :13:13.you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the
:13:13. > :13:19.5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating
:13:19. > :13:27.banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot
:13:27. > :13:31.get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in
:13:31. > :13:34.our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford
:13:34. > :13:42.the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So
:13:42. > :13:51.Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a
:13:51. > :13:55.to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the
:13:55. > :14:28.housing market. 2.3 million? I do people who own their houses. Plus
:14:28. > :14:32.housing market. 2.3 million? I do But enter a would-be buyer, will
:14:32. > :14:38.they now be seeing a plethora of help to buy mortgages? In a word,
:14:38. > :14:43.no. David Cameron has brought the months, and banks were not ready at
:14:43. > :14:47.that stage. Two banks have committed to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group
:14:47. > :14:52.and the RBS group, so lenders like Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will
:14:52. > :15:00.be doing the scheme, but even once the scheme is up and running you are
:15:00. > :15:09.probably find 95% mortgages on the high street because of the guarantee
:15:09. > :15:13.the government is offering. People might say this is how we got into a
:15:13. > :15:15.mess in the first place. Why would the government want to make those
:15:15. > :15:22.products available then now? It the government want to make those
:15:22. > :15:29.more what investment banks were doing in the background that caused
:15:29. > :15:36.performed extremely well through the depths of the downturn. Is this
:15:36. > :15:38.performed extremely well through the game changer? Yes, I have done my
:15:38. > :15:43.best to save over the last few years but this has enabled me to make
:15:43. > :15:47.best to save over the last few years first purchase. How frustrating
:15:48. > :15:50.best to save over the last few years it just renting? Very frustrating,
:15:50. > :15:58.you are throwing away money hand over fist, and now I can take that
:15:58. > :16:02.enthusiasm raises a question back at the flat. If you are looking for a
:16:02. > :16:15.95% mortgage, you don't really care economy, you are thinking, great, I
:16:15. > :16:22.house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term
:16:22. > :16:23.economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull
:16:23. > :16:27.off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the
:16:27. > :16:39.grateful for the opportunity to their own homes that they reward the
:16:39. > :16:54.Now Conservative MP Margot James, to sidestep consequences that such a
:16:54. > :16:58.Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City
:16:58. > :17:04.It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble.
:17:04. > :17:18.Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in
:17:18. > :17:23.London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it
:17:23. > :17:31.will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even
:17:31. > :17:35.more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in
:17:35. > :17:43.tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy.
:17:43. > :17:45.What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on
:17:45. > :17:56.average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on
:17:56. > :18:00.property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they
:18:00. > :18:04.cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people
:18:04. > :18:08.to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will
:18:08. > :18:24.cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any
:18:24. > :18:34.have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record
:18:34. > :18:34.have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not
:18:34. > :18:42.new supply is coming up. It is the statistics I have seen, but
:18:42. > :18:47.new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see
:18:47. > :18:51.enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution
:18:51. > :18:55.to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes
:18:55. > :19:19.and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the
:19:19. > :19:24.own rules and is trying to create these subsidies to circumvent the
:19:24. > :19:29.rules it has put in place. It is not a subsidy. Don't forget banks have
:19:29. > :19:35.to pay a charge in order to take part in this loan scheme and that
:19:35. > :19:43.the... You are guaranteeing the money. Yes, but the fear is worked
:19:43. > :19:48.out on a commercial basis. The taxpayer is protected. Why? You
:19:48. > :19:52.out on a commercial basis. The guaranteeing £12 billion worth of
:19:52. > :19:58.mortgages per year. Yes but the change in the whole mortgage basis
:19:58. > :20:02.has been made a few years ago in response of the crash. They made the
:20:02. > :20:13.distressed test on people applying for mortgages much higher and you
:20:13. > :20:18.twice... So it will not be like these self certification mortgages
:20:18. > :20:22.handed out in America that caused the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit
:20:22. > :20:27.like that but the banks are rightly asking for bigger deposits, they
:20:27. > :20:34.know there is a big chance house prices could fall if interest rates
:20:34. > :20:39.eventually, so they are demanding bigger deposits. The Government
:20:39. > :20:41.eventually, so they are demanding circumventing this is being passed
:20:41. > :20:44.eventually, so they are demanding on to the taxpayers which is why it
:20:44. > :20:53.is a dangerous policy. Instead they should be massively accelerating
:20:53. > :20:55.Planning permission is much easier to get now, we have seen a 49%
:20:55. > :20:59.increase in planning permission to get now, we have seen a 49%
:20:59. > :21:06.a new building over the last year, a huge increase. In the figures I
:21:06. > :21:09.a new building over the last year, a recently, they showed new start
:21:09. > :21:13.a new building over the last year, a the 12 months to the autumn were
:21:13. > :21:29.only about 110,000 which is the figure you inherited, which was
:21:29. > :21:31.only about 110,000 which is the other policies the Government put
:21:31. > :21:43.into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I
:21:43. > :21:49.advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron
:21:49. > :21:58.says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They
:21:58. > :22:04.don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on
:22:04. > :22:07.the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable
:22:07. > :22:12.housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like
:22:12. > :22:20.in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes
:22:20. > :22:26.were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people
:22:26. > :22:30.could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95%
:22:30. > :22:39.mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go
:22:39. > :22:45.struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced
:22:45. > :22:50.with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford.
:22:50. > :22:55.95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford.
:22:55. > :23:01.repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise?
:23:01. > :23:04.They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are
:23:04. > :23:09.already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are
:23:09. > :23:16.lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into
:23:16. > :23:21.this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are
:23:21. > :23:25.this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should
:23:25. > :23:31.limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape
:23:31. > :23:33.limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the
:23:33. > :23:39.Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father
:23:39. > :23:50.picture of his father's gravestone claiming that Ed Miliband's Father
:23:50. > :23:53.picture of his father's gravestone They then removed the photo and
:23:53. > :23:57.picture of his father's gravestone Ed Miliband the right to reply on
:23:57. > :24:06.printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It
:24:06. > :24:09.printed an editorial alongside it reporter had gate-crashed a private
:24:09. > :24:14.memorial service for Ed Miliband's uncle in a London hospital, for
:24:14. > :24:16.which the paper has now apologised, but Ed Miliband has called on the
:24:16. > :24:24.hard look at the way his papers but Ed Miliband has called on the
:24:24. > :24:32.run. This comes a week before a but Ed Miliband has called on the
:24:32. > :24:41.Joining us now from Hull, John Prescott. Does this row between
:24:41. > :24:46.Joining us now from Hull, John reinforce the case for tough, new
:24:47. > :24:50.certainly influences the opinion about that but that is more of Paul
:24:50. > :24:55.Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang about that but that is more of Paul
:24:55. > :25:00.while I was in Strasbourg making sure my complaints were nothing
:25:00. > :25:04.while I was in Strasbourg making do with press regulation and he
:25:04. > :25:08.while I was in Strasbourg making right. This argument is not about
:25:08. > :25:16.politicians and media people, it is about ordinary people that love
:25:16. > :25:18.politicians and media people, it is and dealt with. All of these cases
:25:18. > :25:23.affected individual people and they are the ones that need to have
:25:23. > :25:33.justice in this matter. Next week we will be hearing whether the Privy
:25:33. > :25:38.Council will be reporting on the proposal to replace it. Are you
:25:38. > :25:50.agreeing then that what the mail did with its Miliband article was a
:25:50. > :26:06.matter of judgement? Yes, and the with its Miliband article was a
:26:06. > :26:14.politicians should be governed, with its Miliband article was a
:26:14. > :26:31.proposal given by half the press with its Miliband article was a
:26:32. > :26:35.Prime Minister said he supported. with its Miliband article was a
:26:35. > :26:41.You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through
:26:41. > :26:46.the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled
:26:46. > :26:47.son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about
:26:47. > :26:57.Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about
:26:57. > :27:10.couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are
:27:10. > :27:24.editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the
:27:24. > :27:33.judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the
:27:33. > :27:37.old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject
:27:37. > :27:40.old PCC is no good. They are playing this week there is 12 months until
:27:40. > :27:44.you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near
:27:44. > :27:48.the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have
:27:49. > :27:58.been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is
:27:58. > :28:05.fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the
:28:05. > :28:09.Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say
:28:09. > :28:12.Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't is wrong if that is what they did.
:28:12. > :28:18.As you said, you have the same position when they go through your
:28:18. > :28:22.rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. We have Leveson set up by the Prime
:28:22. > :28:25.Minister to look at the cultures and practices and the unilateral action
:28:25. > :28:38.of editors and he came forward with Parliament under a compromise of the
:28:38. > :28:45.frankly, but we have agreed to go frankly, but we have agreed to go
:28:45. > :28:48.Government set up in charge at frankly, but we have agreed to go
:28:48. > :29:03.same time rushed through the press have now said they are going to
:29:03. > :29:09.introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not
:29:09. > :29:09.introduce their own independent accountability. We know Alistair
:29:09. > :29:14.Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair
:29:14. > :29:25.are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for
:29:25. > :29:39.this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to
:29:40. > :29:45.account. When Ed Miliband rang me it regulation, he wanted the argument
:29:45. > :29:58.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband regulation, he wanted the argument
:29:58. > :30:00.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband after Paul Dacre's head? No, he
:30:00. > :30:02.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband stay there. It is like with Murdoch,
:30:02. > :30:07.of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband we were not attacking him but what
:30:07. > :30:13.extent, what they are doing about politicians who can look after
:30:13. > :30:17.themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they
:30:17. > :30:20.might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well
:30:20. > :30:26.destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre
:30:26. > :30:33.got good judgment? I would say no, Thank you for joining us, he did not
:30:33. > :30:36.even have to go to the BBC studios, we sent a truck there for him. What
:30:36. > :30:41.is the endgame in this? Whether we sent a truck there for him. What
:30:42. > :30:47.Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not,
:30:47. > :30:50.the criminal trial involving Andy Coulson coming up, the Privy Council
:30:50. > :31:12.discussing press radiation before question is, what is political
:31:12. > :31:14.those who do care believe that all parties are roughly complicit in
:31:15. > :31:27.being too close to editors and smile. Is the Daily Mail also a
:31:27. > :31:30.Labour mole? This has been a dream for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch,
:31:30. > :31:34.I am taking on the energy companies and now the evil Daily Mail! I
:31:35. > :31:39.think... I should say I used to and now the evil Daily Mail! I
:31:39. > :31:43.for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they
:31:43. > :31:47.surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done
:31:47. > :31:49.surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this
:31:49. > :31:53.position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think
:31:53. > :31:59.the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology.
:31:59. > :32:02.If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do
:32:02. > :32:06.this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the
:32:06. > :32:12.media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a
:32:12. > :32:15.dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David
:32:16. > :32:19.Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some
:32:19. > :32:27.common ground between the three so-called press industry version.
:32:27. > :32:31.What the Daily Mail has done is ensured that the Prime Minister
:32:31. > :32:33.What the Daily Mail has done is What is going to happen this week is
:32:33. > :32:37.that the press Royal Charter has to be considered first, and that will
:32:37. > :32:43.probably be rejected. The Privy Council will reject it. Then the
:32:44. > :32:49.three party Royal Charter will come up, but meanwhile the press will set
:32:49. > :32:52.up their own regulatory body because the Royal Charter is not a proper
:32:52. > :32:56.statutory underpinning, they will be able to go ahead with that. There
:32:56. > :33:07.statutory underpinning, they will be will be the legal basis for the
:33:07. > :33:09.resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the
:33:09. > :33:13.profession and a few media watchers. cares about this outside of the
:33:13. > :33:28.But this has been great politics for people are cynical about it. But the
:33:28. > :33:36.all those vested interests are people are cynical about it. But the
:33:36. > :33:50.about who he has stood up for, and left-wing politician to want to
:33:50. > :33:54.about who he has stood up for, and as a Marxist, now they think of
:33:54. > :33:57.about who he has stood up for, and as war hero. He gets to the crux of
:33:57. > :34:02.matters, you know! You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in
:34:02. > :34:06.just over 20 minutes, I will be speaking to Godfrey Bloom, until
:34:06. > :34:23.then the Sunday Politics across Hello and welcome from us. I am
:34:23. > :34:28.minutes or so by Conservative MP Bob Stuart and Seema Malhotra, Labour MP
:34:28. > :34:30.for Feltham and Heston. A little later we will be looking at this,
:34:30. > :34:34.dozens of police stations going later we will be looking at this,
:34:35. > :34:36.under the hammer, city or says they are underused and therefore costing
:34:36. > :34:41.money, so what will it mean for are underused and therefore costing
:34:41. > :34:47.neighbourhood policing? But I want to get off with the question that
:34:47. > :34:52.dominated at least part of the earlier this week, Boris Johnson's
:34:52. > :34:56.career plans. Could he come back into Parliament? Should he come
:34:56. > :35:01.career plans. Could he come back into Parliament before he has served
:35:01. > :35:04.Stewart. I would thought you cannot do two jobs well, so probably not.
:35:04. > :35:08.But I understand it is possible do two jobs well, so probably not.
:35:08. > :35:12.do that. I do not think it will happen. Why are we talking about
:35:12. > :35:18.that? Because you guys like talking about it! The inevitable thing is,
:35:18. > :35:22.who is going to be the leader of the Conservative Party in the distant
:35:22. > :35:26.future? Well, you know what? We don't know. All the names that are
:35:26. > :35:31.being toted around at the moment, I suspect it might not be any of them.
:35:31. > :35:41.difficult because one job is enough, electorate, do you think it will be
:35:41. > :35:43.difficult because one job is enough, should he do it? The mayor of London
:35:43. > :35:44.is a big job and a good job, but I understand it may be possible to do
:35:44. > :35:51.both. I don't know, I'm not Boris, I understand it may be possible to do
:35:51. > :36:01.both. I don't know, I'm not Boris, I don't know what he thinks. As far as
:36:01. > :36:19.both. I don't know, I'm not Boris, I for the Commons. But not before
:36:19. > :36:25.both. I don't know, I'm not Boris, I a pretty big job, and I don't like
:36:25. > :36:30.councillors. I think, for goodness sake, make a choice, either an MP or
:36:30. > :36:34.a local councillor or a member of the European Union or the Northern
:36:35. > :36:35.a local councillor or a member of Ireland Assembly. One job is enough
:36:35. > :36:39.for any man, it certainly is for me! Ireland Assembly. One job is enough
:36:39. > :36:39.for any man, it certainly is for me! Perhaps there are people who are
:36:39. > :36:43.better than me, I am sure there Perhaps there are people who are
:36:43. > :36:52.I think it raises a real question did not talk about the cost of
:36:52. > :36:56.living in his beach, issues that Londoners are placing, rising energy
:36:56. > :36:57.living in his beach, issues that bills, rising travel costs. Probably
:36:57. > :37:02.living in his beach, issues that not surprising he did not talk about
:37:02. > :37:09.London MP, what difference would it make question much he would be doing
:37:09. > :37:15.the same job. For zones one to six, affairs, prices have gone up for a
:37:15. > :37:20.travel card, £440. He could deal with that as an MP. He is the one
:37:20. > :37:25.making decisions, he is in charge of so many things, the extent of police
:37:25. > :37:32.cuts, he has got to be... That would not happen under Labour! He has
:37:32. > :37:35.cuts, he has got to be... That would commitment is, and he has to be
:37:35. > :37:38.doing the job of mayor of London. I would be very surprised if Londoners
:37:39. > :37:44.were at all happy about him running for two jobs, trying to get two
:37:44. > :37:48.struggling with their basic bills, getting work, young people trying to
:37:48. > :37:53.find work, and getting to and from between you, one job is enough,
:37:54. > :37:56.find work, and getting to and from I am sure we will be returning to
:37:56. > :37:59.this question at some stage. Let's move on, because in January City
:37:59. > :38:07.Hall announced they were selling as including stations, across the
:38:07. > :38:10.so-called contact points, such as police counters in supermarkets
:38:10. > :38:12.so-called contact points, such as libraries. Dozens of former stations
:38:12. > :38:18.so-called contact points, such as are now on the market. So where
:38:18. > :38:21.so-called contact points, such as you know go to report a crime will
:38:22. > :38:37.sector bash -- satisfaction, while doing it with 20% less money. It is
:38:37. > :38:39.sector bash -- satisfaction, while called P20-20-20 vision, and while
:38:39. > :38:52.that might sound like popular vote winners, in achieving the may prove
:38:52. > :38:55.properties, just the start of the buildings across the capital. City
:38:55. > :39:00.Hall thought that many stations buildings across the capital. City
:39:00. > :39:05.underused and offered poor value. In September, each police borough has
:39:05. > :39:12.had just one police station open according to Labour, the replacement
:39:12. > :39:16.provision is poor. Half of the police stations have closed down,
:39:16. > :39:26.and the Mets say they are replacing those with contact points, which may
:39:26. > :39:26.and the Mets say they are replacing buildings, but they are only open
:39:26. > :39:33.for two or three hours every week, buildings, but they are only open
:39:33. > :39:35.substitute. We found that actually residents are stating that they
:39:35. > :39:39.substitute. We found that actually not know what the opening of ours
:39:39. > :39:45.are, there has been inadequate residents told me that our local
:39:45. > :39:49.contact point in a supermarket consists of two coppers with two
:39:49. > :39:55.Jess and home-made laminated signs. Not enough thought has been given to
:39:55. > :39:58.this. There are claims the process has been badly managed. Streatham
:39:58. > :40:03.police station was put on the market this week and advertised with estate
:40:03. > :40:07.agents. Then they realised it was fully operational and had to dig
:40:07. > :40:11.down. Human error was blamed. But if Londoners are convinced that Boris
:40:11. > :40:17.Johnson has overseen a fall in may well be that they become more
:40:17. > :40:26.satisfied with their police service Stephen Greenhalgh, the Deputy Mayor
:40:26. > :40:33.for policing, joins me now. Touching about? Is there so little going
:40:33. > :40:34.for policing, joins me now. Touching that the mistake was made? There has
:40:34. > :40:56.buildings, but not for the police been an administrative mistake,
:40:56. > :40:56.buildings, but not for the police stations in London. We are talking
:40:56. > :41:06.being receptionists, we can put stations in London. We are talking
:41:06. > :41:10.extra officers into neighbourhoods to fight crime. We will look at
:41:10. > :41:15.those numbers in a minute, but how many police stations have been sold?
:41:15. > :41:21.I think one. We are marketing around 29, 27, I think, so there are big
:41:21. > :41:25.areas where we are going to get capital receipts. We are looking at
:41:25. > :41:29.a training facility in Hendon, and the headquarters in Scotland Yard
:41:29. > :41:35.will be sold. These generate real receipts. Is this to realise the
:41:35. > :41:41.maximum receipts? Some argue these community use, not necessarily just
:41:41. > :41:48.reaching value for you. Affordable housing,. Is. We have and vicious
:41:48. > :41:52.part of that is by selling buildings that Opera will use. -- we have
:41:52. > :41:59.part of that is by selling buildings ambitious programme. We want to
:41:59. > :42:12.generate value to invest. Wide not to rent these things out? -- why
:42:12. > :42:17.not? We want coppers armed with technology to help them fight crime.
:42:17. > :42:20.So we need to spend the money to bring that about. That is going
:42:20. > :42:20.So we need to spend the money to require a significant amount of
:42:20. > :42:29.investment. So since September, require a significant amount of
:42:29. > :42:38.closed, but they have been replaced by 115. Each borough has... We have
:42:38. > :42:44.over delivered on those contact points. Every borough has got them
:42:44. > :42:50.running now? Every borough has a 24/7 police station, and they have
:42:50. > :42:53.all got several contact points. So where are they, supermarkets? They
:42:53. > :42:56.all got several contact points. So are all over the place, working
:42:56. > :43:01.all got several contact points. So local politicians, the local council
:43:01. > :43:09.supermarkets, libraries, hospitals post office. And you are saying
:43:09. > :43:15.supermarkets, libraries, hospitals as it see the expectations. We have
:43:15. > :43:28.we would have. I think we saw an supermarket, not the ideal place
:43:28. > :43:29.we would have. I think we saw an are a victim of crime, that is the
:43:29. > :43:36.sensitively. These are not places to are a victim of crime, that is the
:43:36. > :43:38.report some crime types, but it are a victim of crime, that is the
:43:38. > :43:42.very important that the first public service in London has contact with
:43:42. > :43:46.the public, and it is about ensuring that you have those links, you can
:43:46. > :43:55.go to the places where the public supermarkets, libraries. Seema
:43:55. > :44:02.Malhotra, is it working OK where you are? There are concerns about the
:44:02. > :44:05.sensitive crimes, and what is more important is to say, actually, are
:44:05. > :44:12.the police also still in the front line. We do know there have been
:44:12. > :44:15.3000 police officers cut in London, and 1500 of those have been on the
:44:15. > :44:19.frontline. PCSOs are being cut, and 1500 of those have been on the
:44:19. > :44:22.that neighbourhood policing team, maintaining officers, we are seen
:44:22. > :44:28.that go down from six in a ward maintaining officers, we are seen
:44:28. > :44:32.to two, and I think that is going to have a really dramatic affect on the
:44:32. > :44:36.relationship between police and communities, and it is not going to
:44:36. > :44:43.be a positive impact. Bob Stewart, Beckenham? Are you going to tell me
:44:43. > :44:50.there is a incredible increase in the number of uniformed officers? I
:44:50. > :45:01.because the people are seen by the supermarkets, so they see that.
:45:01. > :45:03.because the people are seen by the you say, look, the police will come
:45:03. > :45:07.and take you away and go through the proper procedures. He will not do it
:45:07. > :45:09.between counter number six and count on seven in Tesco, it will be done
:45:09. > :45:13.somewhere else. Actually, all I on seven in Tesco, it will be done
:45:14. > :45:19.concerned about is getting more policemen on the streets to answer,
:45:19. > :45:22.concerned about is getting more and that is what people want. Is
:45:22. > :45:24.that what people are telling you locally? People are not saying that,
:45:24. > :45:45.yet to see the changes, because locally? People are not saying that,
:45:45. > :46:01.the beat, rather than two, and locally? People are not saying that,
:46:01. > :46:06.important to be clear about the numbers. We had 530 officers in
:46:06. > :46:12.Hounslow when Boris came in in numbers. We had 530 officers in
:46:12. > :46:20.that went down to 472, now we are talking about it going back up.
:46:20. > :46:23.that went down to 472, now we are is not smoke and mirrors. You have
:46:23. > :46:31.got to get rid of the middle rank officers and sell these buildings,
:46:31. > :46:34.haven't you? Many officers were nowhere near the front line and
:46:34. > :46:40.haven't you? Many officers were have already doubled the number
:46:40. > :46:44.haven't you? Many officers were neighbourhood officers. You are
:46:44. > :46:49.doubling them on a number that had been depleted. No, like-for-like. We
:46:49. > :46:52.are putting thousands of extra officers into neighbourhoods. The
:46:52. > :47:00.choices we have made, these are officers into neighbourhoods. The
:47:00. > :47:04.choices, we need fewer buildings. Is there anything that has proved more
:47:04. > :47:13.problematic than you thought it make it sound so easy, we will sell
:47:13. > :47:20.these buildings. Nothing is easy but crime in London is coming down
:47:20. > :47:29.historically. Not in all London boroughs. Crime is down by 8% across
:47:29. > :47:33.London and overall crime down by ten or 11%. We have got to recognise
:47:34. > :47:37.London and overall crime down by ten crime is coming down to levels we
:47:37. > :47:46.officers are now in neighbourhoods. further, but that is good news.
:47:46. > :47:47.officers are now in neighbourhoods. We are still short of the targets of
:47:47. > :47:52.the target for 2015. Is it true We are still short of the targets of
:47:52. > :48:00.across the rest of the country. It across the rest of the country. It
:48:00. > :48:23.is broadly flat, we have got to buyers but there are increasing
:48:23. > :48:27.concerns that a considerable share of that investment is a result of
:48:27. > :48:42.foreign criminals wanting to launder their money. Are you a foreign drug
:48:42. > :48:51.somewhere safe? Looking to squirrel millions? Lots of others just like
:48:51. > :48:55.you have found the perfect way to launder their dirty money, hiding it
:48:55. > :49:00.in expensive London property. It is such a phenomenon that last year the
:49:00. > :49:02.head of the serious fraud office was reported as saying he hears the
:49:03. > :49:12.head of the serious fraud office was complaint time and time again.
:49:12. > :49:22.A former Met police fraud squad officers said while London property
:49:22. > :49:26.is so appealing... There is a lot of significant opportunities for people
:49:26. > :49:35.to buy high-value property and it is somebody to come along and say,
:49:35. > :49:38.to buy high-value property and it is property, secure in the knowledge
:49:38. > :49:44.that when I wanted I can get access to that money quickly, speedily
:49:44. > :49:44.that when I wanted I can get access most importantly secretly. This
:49:44. > :49:48.north London house was once the most importantly secretly. This
:49:48. > :49:56.of Colonel Gaddafi, paid for with money stolen from the Libyan people.
:49:56. > :50:01.protesters demanding the money should be returned, which it has
:50:01. > :50:08.been, but the money was not bought by the Qaddafi family name but an
:50:08. > :50:13.because of special circumstances here that the ownership came to
:50:13. > :50:17.light. As such, nobody can say how much dirty money is swilling around
:50:17. > :50:33.time we have people coming in with the property market as it is thought
:50:33. > :50:36.time we have people coming in with clearly property price inflation
:50:36. > :50:46.time we have people coming in with going on. Again, it comes back to
:50:46. > :50:54.questions does the Government wants ask, don't tell environment, then it
:50:54. > :51:01.seems to me those house prices will continue to rise. Estate agents
:51:01. > :51:05.seems to me those house prices will under obligation to run checks on
:51:05. > :51:10.according to some, that is far from enough. Private eye magazine has
:51:10. > :51:16.reported extensively and campaign for more transparency. Asking people
:51:16. > :51:25.in estate agents who have lots of other things to think about to take
:51:25. > :51:32.laundering is wishful thinking in the extreme. We have seen what
:51:33. > :51:39.passing the responsibility onto the extreme. We have seen what
:51:39. > :51:44.responsible for 20 years now and have just not done it. What we need
:51:44. > :51:53.what. There is much discussion about what. There is much discussion about
:51:54. > :51:58.how to make property in London more affordable for ordinary people.
:51:58. > :52:06.Could one way be a crackdown on this? Should there be a crackdown,
:52:06. > :52:12.or more to the point how do you tremendously concerning and there is
:52:12. > :52:19.a big question to be asked about to what extent this is a problem. There
:52:19. > :52:26.may be a greater role for estate agents, for the land Registry to do
:52:26. > :52:32.further checks, for HMRC to be greater vigilance about this. It
:52:32. > :52:37.could have an impact on London. greater vigilance about this. It
:52:37. > :52:39.is not just about houses, it is about communities, who is living in
:52:39. > :52:46.London and how they are part of that? Absolutely. When a huge amount
:52:46. > :52:53.community. Bob, do use ascribed that? Absolutely. When a huge amount
:52:53. > :52:54.of money suddenly comes into London, surely the banks ask where this
:52:54. > :53:12.all the time. Where has it come surely the banks ask where this
:53:12. > :53:19.responsibility for actually checking through a bank and the bank has
:53:20. > :53:25.responsibility for actually checking it has not been laundered. What
:53:25. > :53:29.responsibility for actually checking can estate agents do? Perhaps not in
:53:29. > :53:33.isolation, but can there be greater checks on not just the company
:53:33. > :53:40.behind buying a house, if that is what it is, who are the individuals
:53:40. > :53:51.behind that? And the important question as well is what is the
:53:51. > :53:55.Londoners? They are only laundering the money in this way because it is
:53:55. > :53:59.such an acceptable thing to do and there are so many foreign people
:53:59. > :54:05.buying property. Is there anything you would like to see to intervene
:54:05. > :54:11.in this market? Whenever you buy a house, lawyers are involved both
:54:11. > :54:17.ways. When you buy a house, HMRC in some way is involved. When you buy a
:54:17. > :54:21.house, estate agents are involved. When I moved into my constituency
:54:21. > :54:32.when I was elected, all of those sorts of things came into play and I
:54:32. > :54:36.someone, and we can make it plain, when a house is bought in London,
:54:36. > :54:41.where the money comes from should be quite plain to HMRC and therefore it
:54:41. > :54:44.should be clean money. Now it is time for the rest of the political
:54:44. > :55:08.investigation into its handling time for the rest of the political
:55:08. > :55:20.the pleb row... Boris Johnson told companies should be allowed to make
:55:20. > :55:47.and Redbridge are close behind. Patrick McLoughlin used his speech
:55:47. > :55:50.and Redbridge are close behind. People from the Afro-Caribbean and
:55:50. > :56:03.South Asian communities are most at risk. Would you get rid of stamp
:56:03. > :56:10.duty? I hate stamp duty. It is almost criminal robbery when people
:56:10. > :56:16.have spent this and they have to put up extra money on their mortgage to
:56:16. > :56:24.pay for it. It will raise -- they could raise the threshold. Would you
:56:24. > :56:31.like Labour to look at stamp duty? You have always got to look at ways
:56:31. > :56:34.fairness for the individual. There are different ways in which we can
:56:34. > :56:39.potentially be looking at things but it is not a question we have been
:56:39. > :56:43.talking about. We have been looking at the cost of living. That imposes
:56:43. > :56:47.on the cost of living. When you at the cost of living. That imposes
:56:47. > :56:55.trying to encourage people to buy houses, it imposes. Then you are
:56:55. > :57:00.really in danger of expanding the bubble, aren't you? I also want
:57:00. > :57:06.really in danger of expanding the children to be able to buy a house.
:57:06. > :57:08.We are getting into a discussion of more affordable homes needed, but we
:57:08. > :57:21.have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to
:57:21. > :57:42.controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after
:57:42. > :57:44.a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land'
:57:44. > :57:49.and joking that a group of UKIP receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land'
:57:49. > :58:04.and joking that a group of UKIP fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits
:58:04. > :58:11.and joking that a group of UKIP Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly
:58:11. > :58:16.be giving £1 million a month... Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails
:58:16. > :58:21.within 12 hours, only 47 were not agreeing with me so you are the
:58:21. > :58:24.within 12 hours, only 47 were not that is out of touch. Everybody
:58:24. > :58:28.knows me, a bit like the Marmite joke, they love me or they hate
:58:28. > :58:36.knows me, a bit like the Marmite but I have always told me like it
:58:36. > :58:41.is. I made a joke and said that women who did not clean behind the
:58:41. > :58:46.French were sluts and everybody laughed along, including the women.
:58:46. > :58:51.I have had hundreds of e-mails, saying, God Almighty, can't you
:58:51. > :58:55.I have had hundreds of e-mails, a joke any more? I am long in the
:58:55. > :59:07.correctness and I understand UKIP have moved on and they are doing
:59:07. > :59:11.well, and I wish them well. This, with no black faces on it. You are
:59:11. > :59:17.picking people out for the colour of with no black faces on it. You are
:59:17. > :59:26.their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps the way they are doing things now is
:59:26. > :59:32.disgrace me. We are joined now with a suitable distance between us by
:59:32. > :59:35.the independent MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You
:59:35. > :59:40.said this weekend that you have and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You
:59:40. > :59:48.be a complete sociopath to be in politics, are you a sociopath? No, I
:59:48. > :59:52.am just an ordinary bloke from the politics, are you a sociopath? No, I
:59:52. > :59:56.rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to
:59:56. > :59:56.rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of
:59:56. > :00:19.the awful, evil... That is why I save my country from the clutches of
:00:19. > :00:28.conference? We were both born in save my country from the clutches of
:00:28. > :00:36.and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my
:00:36. > :00:43.country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and
:00:43. > :00:46.country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game
:00:46. > :00:55.in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been
:00:55. > :00:59.liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of
:00:59. > :01:03.perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a
:01:03. > :01:06.one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe
:01:06. > :01:14.meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything
:01:15. > :01:23.Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or
:01:23. > :01:30.me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And
:01:30. > :01:44.myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable
:01:44. > :01:57.force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has
:01:57. > :02:01.been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June
:02:01. > :02:06.and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement
:02:07. > :02:14.about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote
:02:14. > :02:19.getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you
:02:19. > :02:24.what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip
:02:24. > :02:30.friends amongst the liberal elite, of that. We are not here to win
:02:30. > :02:30.friends amongst the liberal elite, and Godfrey's problem was that he
:02:31. > :02:44.manifesto. Don't you need to reflect about flat tax. I thought David
:02:44. > :02:54.Well, you see, to a certain extent I about flat tax. I thought David
:02:54. > :03:00.Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in gagged to speak about any of these
:03:00. > :03:05.things because they are not part of it, so I tend to speak about other
:03:05. > :03:14.things. Maybe they have outgrown machine, and they have to get rid of
:03:14. > :03:17.the Victor Meldrew wing. You might have a point, but I am speaking
:03:17. > :03:22.the Victor Meldrew wing. You might you from Hull, and if you look at
:03:22. > :03:27.Barnsley, and very recently in Scarborough and Whitby in the buy
:03:27. > :03:29.legends, 25%, so how you see things in the bubble, it is not like how we
:03:29. > :03:32.see it appear in Yorkshire. You in the bubble, it is not like how we
:03:33. > :03:36.like the one who was sitting in in the bubble, it is not like how we
:03:36. > :03:40.bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of course it isn't, we are getting
:03:40. > :03:41.bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of of the vote in by-elections, of
:03:41. > :03:46.course it is not. Boy, wouldn't of the vote in by-elections, of
:03:47. > :03:53.main parties and the establishment love to see that! But I am sorry, it
:03:53. > :03:55.is not happening. Will you stand as an independence against UKIP in
:03:55. > :04:04.is not happening. Will you stand as European elections? Almost certainly
:04:04. > :04:11.elections were next week, I could do not think I will go that route.
:04:11. > :04:15.Will you stand as a UKIP candidate again? We do not know, probably
:04:15. > :04:18.Will you stand as a UKIP candidate but I shall certainly be trying
:04:18. > :04:21.Will you stand as a UKIP candidate help UKIP as best I can. You both
:04:21. > :04:25.share a flat, I understand, in Brussels, neither of you clean
:04:25. > :04:29.behind the fridge. Other than the fact that the place is probably
:04:29. > :04:33.quite murky, you have got a chance to talk to each other and get back
:04:33. > :04:37.into his good graces, haven't you? I am sure we will be having a beer
:04:37. > :04:44.before the month is out. So Godfrey take it? For those of you who were
:04:44. > :04:55.have to move my own share, you do skirmishes are not a problem, and
:04:55. > :05:11.not have the sea Jeremy Paxman skirmishes are not a problem, and
:05:11. > :05:15.more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even
:05:15. > :05:23.juxtaposition with someone like in that clip from Andrew Marr, he
:05:23. > :05:25.juxtaposition with someone like before. I mean, he did hijacked
:05:26. > :05:26.juxtaposition with someone like conference, it was a disaster, they
:05:26. > :05:29.got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they
:05:29. > :05:38.kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist
:05:38. > :05:42.long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his
:05:42. > :05:48.website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he
:05:48. > :05:54.photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does
:05:54. > :05:56.photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin
:05:56. > :06:02.was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It
:06:02. > :06:07.sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be
:06:07. > :06:07.sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a
:06:07. > :06:12.beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a
:06:13. > :06:16.sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP
:06:16. > :06:19.sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the
:06:19. > :06:23.European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is
:06:23. > :06:26.right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what
:06:26. > :06:33.this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to
:06:33. > :06:38.electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as
:06:38. > :06:38.electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the
:06:38. > :06:41.three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the
:06:41. > :06:45.probably do it in the European elections and give them first place.
:06:45. > :06:56.The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making
:06:56. > :06:57.The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that
:06:57. > :06:59.he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that
:06:59. > :07:00.he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and
:07:00. > :07:02.councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need
:07:02. > :07:05.Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need
:07:05. > :07:11.David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster.
:07:11. > :07:13.David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women
:07:13. > :07:15.among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet?
:07:15. > :07:20.He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet?
:07:20. > :07:25.week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way
:07:25. > :07:41.businesses in Britain, there are not in Britain, there aren't nearly
:07:41. > :07:41.businesses in Britain, there are not there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:41. > :07:45.the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:45. > :07:48.women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:48. > :07:51.have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before
:07:51. > :07:56.big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we
:07:56. > :08:01.need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in
:08:01. > :08:04.need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing
:08:04. > :08:06.need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than
:08:06. > :08:10.need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she
:08:10. > :08:15.need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime
:08:15. > :08:15.need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I
:08:15. > :08:20.think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I
:08:20. > :08:26.will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to
:08:26. > :08:33.will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin
:08:33. > :08:44.college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool,
:08:44. > :08:47.but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult
:08:47. > :08:49.brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger
:08:49. > :08:55.roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger
:08:55. > :08:58.told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary
:08:58. > :09:05.level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot
:09:05. > :09:08.James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive.
:09:08. > :09:12.What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive.
:09:12. > :09:16.like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City,
:09:17. > :09:20.like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important
:09:20. > :09:24.intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George
:09:24. > :09:33.Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls
:09:33. > :09:39.you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this
:09:39. > :09:58.promote women, because the 2010 now, a tonne of bricks will fall
:09:58. > :10:00.promote women, because the 2010 the Tories and the struggle with
:10:00. > :10:02.women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember
:10:02. > :10:13.Conservative government without historic one. You have to remember
:10:13. > :10:18.women of this country. This began to change in the mid-1990s, and the
:10:18. > :10:21.question is, why has that happened? personalities at the top are now
:10:21. > :10:27.much more hostile to women, or less, personalities at the top are now
:10:27. > :10:28.Brent doubled to female voters? personalities at the top are now
:10:28. > :10:30.is such a deep historical trend personalities at the top are now
:10:30. > :10:38.I do not think one reshuffle will change it. -- or less competent
:10:38. > :10:41.civil. The English party conference season is over, do you share the
:10:41. > :10:47.consensus view that Ed Miliband season is over, do you share the
:10:47. > :10:54.out best of the three party leaders? I think I probably do, but his
:10:54. > :10:57.overall approval ratings are still minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus
:10:57. > :11:01.ten. And the more the recovery seems minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus
:11:01. > :11:06.to take place, and some of the latest figures are quite amazing,
:11:06. > :11:10.they certainly surprised me, you wonder whether Labour's tactic is
:11:10. > :11:17.right to put all their eggs into the living standards basket. I was
:11:17. > :11:19.looking at car sales, which are booming. If people start to feel
:11:19. > :11:23.better, and they don't yet, but booming. If people start to feel
:11:23. > :11:31.they were, it is tougher to go on about living standards. George
:11:31. > :11:35.Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband making a great thing about living
:11:35. > :11:42.standards, but then they say under their breath, this is global forces,
:11:42. > :11:45.outstripping wage increases. And you're absolutely right, as the
:11:45. > :11:49.economy improves, presumably that will be dealt with, but Miliband's
:11:49. > :11:53.argument will be that there are people suffering, and even if the
:11:53. > :12:02.economy recovers, they will still forces, it is difficult to blame the
:12:02. > :12:07.noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition
:12:07. > :12:11.being noticed now. It seems that he than to be not noticed. -- but he is
:12:11. > :12:11.being noticed now. It seems that he in many ways has set the political
:12:11. > :12:34.Obama's speech on a similar topic, in many ways has set the political
:12:34. > :12:38.Obama's speech on a similar topic, far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would
:12:38. > :12:41.be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their
:12:41. > :12:45.conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they
:12:45. > :12:50.could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it
:12:50. > :12:55.generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I
:12:55. > :12:57.generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here.
:12:57. > :13:04.What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the
:13:04. > :13:08.one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say,
:13:08. > :13:15.they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you
:13:15. > :13:17.they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework
:13:17. > :13:20.that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones
:13:20. > :13:24.after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also
:13:24. > :13:29.pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go
:13:29. > :13:32.ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will
:13:32. > :13:34.ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two,
:13:34. > :13:38.and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is
:13:38. > :13:40.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.