:00:41. > :00:47.Morning, welcome to the veritable Sunday Politics. We have Alastair
:00:47. > :00:57.Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps Charmichael. We'll ask him what
:00:57. > :00:57.Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps going on and on and on. He'll bang
:00:57. > :01:11.Free of the shackles of Government, In the capital, a report by the
:01:11. > :01:36.Diane Abbott will join us. That In the capital, a report by the
:01:36. > :01:41.pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick
:01:41. > :01:50.watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if
:01:50. > :02:00.Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen
:02:00. > :02:08.a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could
:02:08. > :02:13.Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the
:02:13. > :02:17.Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools
:02:17. > :02:25.after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of
:02:25. > :02:29.parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting
:02:29. > :02:32.parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new
:02:32. > :02:34.school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free
:02:34. > :02:41.enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free
:02:41. > :02:46.be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It
:02:46. > :03:00.teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on
:03:00. > :03:07.with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael
:03:08. > :03:11.changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have
:03:11. > :03:13.changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and
:03:13. > :03:17.changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of
:03:17. > :03:24.reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge
:03:24. > :03:35.of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.
:03:35. > :03:40.of Blair rights. It seemed to be a Labour will be tough than the Tories
:03:40. > :03:58.on welfare. You've seen that clip social entrepreneurs who want to set
:03:58. > :04:06.these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,
:04:06. > :04:12.polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've
:04:12. > :04:14.polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael
:04:14. > :04:19.Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.
:04:19. > :04:25.And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy
:04:25. > :04:30.debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.
:04:30. > :04:33.This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.
:04:33. > :04:38.This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which
:04:38. > :04:46.is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?
:04:46. > :04:52.They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free
:04:52. > :04:58.only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I
:04:58. > :05:02.always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed
:05:02. > :05:06.Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether
:05:06. > :05:12.they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried
:05:12. > :05:16.the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the
:05:16. > :05:21.Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is
:05:21. > :05:25.no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say
:05:25. > :05:29.what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free
:05:29. > :05:35.schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet
:05:36. > :05:44.defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.
:05:44. > :05:50.defined need. It could be, we've run If that is it, it is the same Asics
:05:50. > :05:58.itsing Government policy. In they unsatisfactory that's no different.
:05:58. > :06:00.itsing Government policy. In they He wanted to say he was in favour of
:06:00. > :06:00.itsing Government policy. In they higher educational standards and
:06:00. > :06:11.rigour, he had to tell the audience higher educational standards and
:06:11. > :06:23.from Cambridge? Obviously to him it that. Is that worth something,
:06:23. > :06:24.from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper
:06:24. > :06:34.teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not
:06:34. > :06:39.have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never
:06:39. > :06:48.been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow
:06:49. > :06:54.free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to
:06:54. > :06:58.Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do
:06:58. > :07:11.the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more
:07:11. > :07:16.#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,
:07:16. > :07:22.rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping
:07:22. > :07:28.beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in
:07:28. > :07:31.and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street
:07:31. > :07:34.and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to
:07:34. > :07:39.see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the
:07:39. > :07:47.back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started
:07:47. > :07:51.can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties
:07:51. > :07:57.changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.
:07:57. > :08:05.Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit
:08:05. > :08:10.Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm
:08:10. > :08:12.disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been
:08:12. > :08:17.able to achieve in the last couple now but pleased at what I've been
:08:17. > :08:19.of years. Not as pleased as one now but pleased at what I've been
:08:19. > :08:24.imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and
:08:24. > :08:41.simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, welcome that went on, and on and
:08:41. > :08:48.simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, the Home Office in conspiracy to let
:08:48. > :09:00.# Blowing hi Jude through a traffic Democrats. We tend to think they are
:09:01. > :09:05.herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet Minister, another minister, Jeremy
:09:05. > :09:09.Browne. By lunch time, the Tory ranks were shifting too. The PM
:09:09. > :09:11.Browne. By lunch time, the Tory to boost the numbers of telegenic
:09:11. > :09:14.women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He
:09:14. > :09:22.tipped a so-called flatcap to men backgrounds with room for some which
:09:22. > :09:24.fitted neither label but are friends of George Osborne. And, all the
:09:24. > :09:31.while, those new Tory ministers of George Osborne. And, all the
:09:31. > :09:35.learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young
:09:35. > :09:42.blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of
:09:42. > :09:43.that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe
:09:43. > :09:48.as hard left. But Blairbrushing peer row would be hard to describe
:09:48. > :09:56.past out of the picture seemed to be the name of the day. Liam Byrne
:09:56. > :10:00.With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It
:10:00. > :10:03.depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted
:10:04. > :10:05.depends what you mean. Blair right Blair to be leader of the Labour
:10:05. > :10:07.Party. Somebody who worked closely with him. Now it means sometimes
:10:07. > :10:12.people who believe in a certain with him. Now it means sometimes
:10:12. > :10:14.of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair
:10:14. > :10:18.rights within the party. But we still very much those kind of Blair
:10:18. > :10:25.seeing the group around Tony Blair are not long assassin flew enjoys as
:10:25. > :10:32.they once were. By evening, it was over. New bees were sharing the
:10:32. > :10:47.ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or
:10:47. > :10:57.the case, you are unlikely to get standing here might want it to
:10:57. > :11:03.the case, you are unlikely to get "how could." And running off crying!
:11:03. > :11:07.the case, you are unlikely to get Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins
:11:07. > :11:12.the case, you are unlikely to get us from Orkney on a line that hasn't
:11:12. > :11:17.been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I
:11:18. > :11:21.wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why
:11:21. > :11:26.wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?
:11:26. > :11:30.wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years
:11:30. > :11:31.wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not
:11:31. > :11:37.Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not
:11:37. > :11:42.hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.
:11:42. > :11:44.Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department
:11:44. > :11:50.you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department
:11:50. > :11:54.Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British
:11:54. > :12:00.politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the
:12:01. > :12:06.UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs
:12:06. > :12:10.of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was
:12:11. > :12:14.always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on
:12:14. > :12:18.making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What
:12:18. > :12:19.making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?
:12:19. > :12:24.Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?
:12:25. > :12:32.excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement
:12:32. > :12:40.clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to
:12:40. > :12:47.substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that
:12:47. > :12:48.substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now
:12:48. > :12:53.about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now
:12:53. > :13:02.will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to
:13:02. > :13:04.just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a
:13:04. > :13:20.mortgage. That and an awful lot nationhood, sovereignty, this is a
:13:20. > :13:21.mortgage. That and an awful lot you're being put in there to save
:13:21. > :13:32.alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing you're being put in there to save
:13:32. > :13:35.alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I
:13:35. > :13:42.suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread
:13:42. > :13:45.suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you
:13:45. > :13:48.misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person
:13:48. > :13:50.who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the
:13:50. > :13:54.people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the
:13:54. > :13:59.next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for
:13:59. > :14:05.that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own
:14:05. > :14:12.party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You
:14:12. > :14:18.were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in
:14:18. > :14:22.fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the
:14:22. > :14:25.Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for
:14:25. > :14:30.everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for
:14:30. > :14:34.a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could
:14:34. > :14:39.have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and
:14:39. > :14:45.for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in
:14:45. > :14:51.three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition
:14:51. > :14:54.survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I
:14:54. > :14:59.was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.
:14:59. > :15:04.So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.
:15:04. > :15:08.As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also
:15:08. > :15:11.As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls
:15:11. > :15:14.are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in
:15:14. > :15:20.the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next
:15:20. > :15:24.or lost yet. One of the things I election nor the referendum is one
:15:24. > :15:29.or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against
:15:29. > :15:41.because we are a good margin ahead Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As
:15:41. > :16:03.the polls. You came fourth in the you know, wasn't for the Liberal
:16:03. > :16:08.the polls. You came fourth in the David Cameron face him? I am happy
:16:08. > :16:15.debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex
:16:15. > :16:20.Nationalists to portray this as him? No, because that allows Alex
:16:21. > :16:25.sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy
:16:25. > :16:30.is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to
:16:30. > :16:38.be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David
:16:38. > :16:43.Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is
:16:43. > :16:47.not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,
:16:47. > :16:57.the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name
:16:57. > :17:04.wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described
:17:04. > :17:10.the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were
:17:10. > :17:17.you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I
:17:17. > :17:24.think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I
:17:24. > :17:30.we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:30. > :17:35.are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:35. > :17:41.hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has
:17:41. > :17:50.published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the
:17:50. > :17:55.for the hearts and Scotland because head. I am not giving up the battle
:17:55. > :17:58.for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as
:17:58. > :18:03.somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland
:18:03. > :18:18.celebratory drink for your new post. remain part of the UK. You come
:18:18. > :18:21.celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips.
:18:21. > :18:22.celebratory drink for your new post. supporting local business! I will be
:18:22. > :18:27.making up for lost time on the supporting local business! I will be
:18:27. > :18:29.of November, I will be doing it supporting local business! I will be
:18:29. > :18:36.aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if website, they can donate. It is
:18:36. > :18:39.worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister
:18:39. > :18:51.who many thought might get Reef better cause. One Cabinet minister
:18:51. > :18:54.Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,
:18:54. > :19:03.minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I
:19:03. > :19:09.would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it
:19:09. > :19:11.would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy
:19:11. > :19:13.it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:14. > :19:19.on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:19. > :19:24.I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have
:19:24. > :19:30.survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this
:19:30. > :19:37.reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,
:19:37. > :19:47.asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my
:19:47. > :19:51.role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings
:19:52. > :19:56.of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.
:19:56. > :20:03.You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why
:20:03. > :20:05.You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to
:20:05. > :20:13.achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since
:20:13. > :20:19.politics but the older I get I get governance of the country and at the
:20:19. > :20:25.moment the combination of problems of tackling the modern world is
:20:25. > :20:29.moment the combination of problems difficult and I find it fascinating.
:20:29. > :20:30.The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you
:20:30. > :20:40.might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you
:20:40. > :20:50.experience but we will have a lot of tackle. You opposed referenda on
:20:50. > :20:57.Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain
:20:57. > :21:04.adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda
:21:04. > :21:13.on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and
:21:13. > :21:19.representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have
:21:19. > :21:23.firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of
:21:23. > :21:28.Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is
:21:28. > :21:32.Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in
:21:32. > :21:38.Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after
:21:38. > :21:45.the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last
:21:45. > :21:49.the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme
:21:49. > :21:54.nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party
:21:54. > :22:00.must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are
:22:00. > :22:07.desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to
:22:07. > :22:12.referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get
:22:12. > :22:15.across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing
:22:15. > :22:17.across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the
:22:17. > :22:22.commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do
:22:22. > :22:29.bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a
:22:29. > :22:31.leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from
:22:31. > :22:37.influence in events. That is not and rich as the Americans, from
:22:37. > :22:40.influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on
:22:40. > :22:48.influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we
:22:48. > :22:53.spilling over from the Middle East, threatened. You didn't even turn
:22:53. > :23:04.spilling over from the Middle East, to vote for the bill which will
:23:04. > :23:04.spilling over from the Middle East, It seemed to get through without my
:23:04. > :23:17.Look, many of your colleagues I It seemed to get through without my
:23:17. > :23:26.interviewed say that if the choice was between the state -- the status
:23:26. > :23:32.quo with the European Union and leaving, they would leave. The truth
:23:32. > :23:41.is that you would vote to stay in even on the status quo, wouldn't
:23:41. > :23:44.supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy
:23:44. > :23:45.supporting the EU to leave now if I much stronger than it would have
:23:45. > :23:54.investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.
:23:54. > :24:02.investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward
:24:02. > :24:05.the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that
:24:05. > :24:10.the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to
:24:10. > :24:15.That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:15. > :24:22.particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:22. > :24:25.Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:25. > :24:34.nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?
:24:34. > :24:39.one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it
:24:39. > :24:44.would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the
:24:44. > :24:54.dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a
:24:54. > :25:03.strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree
:25:03. > :25:08.reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the
:25:08. > :25:26.Paul to 27%. How would you see off ten point lead is because UKIP are
:25:26. > :25:26.Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced
:25:26. > :25:40.popular as the previous Government I and effective Government. We faced
:25:40. > :25:42.popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three
:25:43. > :25:46.previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to
:25:46. > :25:49.previous prime ministers. When you themselves who do we want to decide
:25:49. > :25:55.the issues of war and peace in this country? Who do we want to get us
:25:55. > :25:59.out of our economic problems. I don't think Ed Miliband is up to it.
:25:59. > :26:04.That generalised stuff will not don't think Ed Miliband is up to it.
:26:04. > :26:08.off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion
:26:08. > :26:12.poll, they tell you how annoyed that. When people answer an opinion
:26:12. > :26:18.are by something that has recently upset them, but people are more
:26:18. > :26:25.sensible than this. Every Government I have served in has been behind in
:26:25. > :26:29.the polls. At a general election you have to mobilise the public to start
:26:29. > :26:41.thinking, who do we want to govern us? They did take over a calamitous
:26:41. > :26:48.important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents
:26:48. > :26:52.anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I
:26:52. > :27:25.Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in
:27:25. > :27:29.disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit
:27:29. > :27:31.disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing
:27:31. > :27:32.the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:32. > :27:42.prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:42. > :28:03.interview. So is he working on a inviting me back. You have set your
:28:03. > :28:09.on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,
:28:09. > :28:09.on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:09. > :28:14.on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:14. > :28:20.of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on
:28:21. > :28:24.political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of
:28:25. > :28:29.political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he
:28:29. > :28:33.rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was
:28:33. > :28:39.actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same
:28:39. > :28:45.thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why
:28:45. > :28:47.thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not
:28:47. > :29:17.offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?
:29:17. > :29:23.coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own
:29:23. > :29:30.Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are
:29:30. > :29:33.going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib
:29:33. > :29:41.Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib
:29:41. > :29:46.interesting election because I think you will have essentially three
:29:46. > :29:55.party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a
:29:55. > :29:58.battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,
:29:58. > :30:04.the Lib Dems can come out very In those circumstances, in my view,
:30:04. > :30:12.well. But you will lose seats, won't In those circumstances, in my view,
:30:12. > :30:17.the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:17. > :30:31.in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind
:30:31. > :30:35.very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general
:30:35. > :30:40.election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in
:30:40. > :30:41.jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I
:30:41. > :30:45.think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I
:30:45. > :30:48.next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most
:30:48. > :30:53.people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most
:30:53. > :30:57.another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in
:30:57. > :31:01.coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in
:31:01. > :31:06.have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to
:31:06. > :31:10.colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour
:31:10. > :31:15.Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of
:31:15. > :31:21.the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is
:31:21. > :31:24.the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because
:31:24. > :31:29.we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't
:31:29. > :31:33.take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to
:31:33. > :31:38.coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with
:31:38. > :31:42.either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer
:31:42. > :31:46.Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It
:31:46. > :31:53.is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things
:31:53. > :31:56.you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand
:31:56. > :32:00.up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand
:32:00. > :32:04.for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping
:32:04. > :32:11.up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise
:32:11. > :32:13.up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's
:32:13. > :32:17.up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not
:32:17. > :32:20.up your interest in energy matters. sensible policy. It was tried in
:32:20. > :32:23.California in 2,000 and 2001 which led to blackouts. We had the Prime
:32:23. > :32:34.Minister promising we should sift led to blackouts. We had the Prime
:32:34. > :32:41.getting clap trap. You're against the political cycle where we are
:32:41. > :32:42.getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when
:32:42. > :32:46.getting clap trap. You're against are trying to encourage investment.
:32:47. > :32:54.base price? The other European Ian the lowest gas and electricity
:32:54. > :32:57.base price? The other European Ian prices are only higher because they
:32:57. > :33:02.put a lot more taxes on to it? Our base energy prices are among the
:33:02. > :33:06.highest in Europe? No, if you look at EU comparisons in what goes out
:33:06. > :33:10.to people's households. That's after all the taxes have been put on them?
:33:10. > :33:10.to people's households. That's after . The Conservatives are claiming
:33:10. > :33:51.green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok
:33:51. > :34:00.not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives
:34:00. > :34:03.not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue
:34:03. > :34:07.raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about
:34:07. > :34:12.green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,
:34:12. > :34:18.wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style
:34:18. > :34:21.press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it
:34:21. > :34:27.refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither
:34:28. > :34:30.refuses to sign up to the Leveson nor there. The Guardian gives me a
:34:30. > :34:36.up to what you believe in will you up to what you believe in will you
:34:36. > :34:44.support it? No because I'm sure point. I think newspapers will sign
:34:44. > :34:48.up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in
:34:48. > :35:05.recent years. Unparalleled. They you can come back and we'll talk
:35:05. > :35:21.Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll Coming up in about 20 minutes,
:35:21. > :35:25.Welcome to the London part of the show. I'm joined by my guests for
:35:25. > :35:30.the next 20 minutes or so, the Conservative MP for Bromley and
:35:30. > :35:38.chisel Hurst Bob Neill and the Labour MP for Poplar and Limehouse.
:35:38. > :35:42.A report from the Conservatives about the London Assembly says we've
:35:42. > :35:45.misunderstood human trafficking about the London Assembly says we've
:35:45. > :35:49.men are the forgotten victims. Robinson, leader of the English
:35:49. > :35:59.claiming the organisation's become Robinson, leader of the English
:35:59. > :36:05.departure strengthen or weaken the organisation? I think it weakens it.
:36:06. > :36:15.He has been a very well listened to, too well listened to spokesperson. I
:36:15. > :36:20.gave as good as he got. A very good interview. Andrew was very robust
:36:21. > :36:26.with him. But he was very much the most articulate of the EDL spoke
:36:26. > :36:32.persons. His departure weakens them and that's a good thing. The other
:36:33. > :36:36.side of the coin, he acted as a brake on the more extreme parts
:36:36. > :36:39.side of the coin, he acted as a the group. If he's gone, is there a
:36:39. > :36:44.risk they become more extreme? We have to see what his real motives
:36:44. > :36:46.are about this departure. He has other matters hanging over him.
:36:46. > :36:55.Let's see what happens on that. other matters hanging over him.
:36:55. > :37:02.extreme and nasty people. We are extreme Is. There is a risk any
:37:02. > :37:11.organisation that has a lot of fan to be careful to avoid. But we have
:37:11. > :37:14.to make it very clear that the EDL, whoever was leading it, was a nasty
:37:14. > :37:36.disenfranchised and feel the EDL whoever was leading it, was a nasty
:37:36. > :37:39.disenfranchised and feel the EDL gives them a voice? I think both
:37:39. > :37:44.parties recognised questions of immigration and the like. People on
:37:44. > :37:49.the white working class end of society have felt let down and not
:37:49. > :37:54.listened to. The trouble with the EDL however, as Bob says, it was too
:37:54. > :37:59.extreme. Even the majority of white voters were not interested in it.
:37:59. > :38:04.Robinson's departure, we've history. The National Front self-destructed.
:38:04. > :38:08.The BNP self-destructed. EDL are going the same way. That is a good
:38:08. > :38:15.thing. Because of the scrutiny from mainstream political parties on
:38:15. > :38:20.thing. Because of the scrutiny from extreme issues they put forward
:38:20. > :38:27.deprives them of their respect ability. Is there good waiting for
:38:27. > :38:32.the group to collapse if those are the concerns of the people who
:38:32. > :38:33.support them? I think that's what we are doing. The Government is getting
:38:33. > :38:37.fairness in immigration. I'm glad are doing. The Government is getting
:38:37. > :38:43.the Labour Party is in a similar place. That's why for a lot of hard
:38:44. > :38:50.working, the traditional white trying to bring fairness into the
:38:50. > :38:57.system on redressing genuine issues. You must do it in a way that as
:38:57. > :39:01.proportionate. Doesn't stigmatise people and is not divisive in our
:39:01. > :39:06.communities. All the major parties need to continue to be on the front
:39:06. > :39:10.Next week, the Government's expected to come forward with details of
:39:10. > :39:12.Next week, the Government's expected new Anti-Slavery Bill. Before that,
:39:12. > :39:17.will tomorrow release a report Conservatives on the London Assembly
:39:17. > :39:28.will tomorrow release a report arguing human trafficking is not
:39:28. > :39:32.young women. Words, which for some slavery, the sexual exploitation of
:39:32. > :39:37.young women. Words, which for some people, may almost be synonymous. In
:39:37. > :39:41.Conservatives on the London Assembly will argue that link between sexual
:39:41. > :39:49.Conservatives on the London Assembly slavery and human trafficking is
:39:49. > :39:54.Conservatives on the London Assembly attention, they say, need to be
:39:54. > :39:55.Conservatives on the London Assembly Conservatives introduced us to this
:39:55. > :40:08.someone's home. Once arrived, she Conservatives introduced us to this
:40:08. > :40:09.someone's home. Once arrived, she movement was very limited. I was not
:40:09. > :40:15.allowed to go out on my own as I allowed to go out on my own as I
:40:15. > :40:19.like. She was beating me. She was controlling me. If it was to be
:40:19. > :40:22.like. She was beating me. She was my country I would just run back and
:40:22. > :40:30.say I don't want to stay. But here, I can't run back. I don't have
:40:30. > :40:36.money. She took away my passport, documents. Everything. So, I was
:40:36. > :40:43.slave. I was a prisoner. At some point, I think about committing
:40:43. > :40:55.suicide. Then I remember my family back home. I remember my mum, my
:40:55. > :40:59.feel worth living. What am I living for. When finally she spoke Stott
:40:59. > :41:04.police, she did not get the response she was looking for. The policeman
:41:04. > :41:10.got very upset. Did I know how long investigate. For them to do this.
:41:10. > :41:24.For them, it was my own decision to employment. It is nothing to do
:41:24. > :41:33.For them, it was my own decision to trafficking. I mean, that just made
:41:33. > :41:42.The green acres caravan site near Luton, four men were et convicted
:41:42. > :41:47.for keeping four men test toot. There needs to be more recognise on
:41:47. > :41:57.of people being trove #yked in the UK and male victims who are often
:41:57. > :42:01.Britain is men. When you say men slaves, it is men exploited at work.
:42:01. > :42:35.They are brought into this country I'm joined by the author of the
:42:36. > :42:42.report, Conservative Andrew Boff and Andrew, you accept trafficking
:42:42. > :42:48.exists and it is a big problem? It certainly does. But my concern is
:42:48. > :42:53.while you view trafficking through sexual exploitation into brothels,
:42:53. > :42:59.you're missing a whole range of trafficking, of suffering, of people
:43:00. > :43:03.testimony. Is that what's happening? Are the authorities missing out
:43:03. > :43:05.testimony. Is that what's happening? layer of people, men particularly,
:43:05. > :43:10.being trafficked? They absolutely are. One of the things we did in our
:43:10. > :43:16.report was to survey social workers, police officers, teachers, to find
:43:16. > :43:21.trafficking was. It was shocking. The lack of knowledge they had about
:43:21. > :43:26.what made a person a trafficked victim. What in your view makes
:43:26. > :43:31.somebody trafficked? Somebody who is brought into a country against their
:43:31. > :43:38.will and held and forced to do is nearly all about exploiting
:43:38. > :43:42.people for labour, of undercutting other people in the destination
:43:42. > :43:45.country. People are brought into this country not necessarily under
:43:45. > :43:51.Dewar rest. But once they are here, they have no way of escaping from
:43:51. > :43:58.that commitment they've initially victim. What do you say to that
:43:58. > :44:04.Mary, do you agree there as been a whole layer of people and victims
:44:04. > :44:06.ignored and forgotten about? I'm not sure they have. There has been,
:44:06. > :44:11.rightly in fact, a concentration on sure they have. There has been,
:44:11. > :44:15.trafficking of women and girls for sexual exploitation because that is
:44:15. > :44:17.very serious indeed. It is a real problem in London. The statistics
:44:17. > :44:38.women who are prostituted in London, problem in London. The statistics
:44:38. > :44:50.women who are prostituted in London, have been trafficked. It is a huge
:44:50. > :44:55.women who are prostituted in London, them at all. But the trafficking of
:44:55. > :45:01.women who are prostituted in London, issue. Why are you shaking your
:45:01. > :45:05.the evidence I received indicates it is nowhere near that number of
:45:05. > :45:11.people who are trafficked into brothels. The majority of people
:45:11. > :45:15.trafficked. Very clearly, are not trafficked. The Metropolitan Police
:45:15. > :45:21.were given £500,000 before the Olympics in order to find these
:45:21. > :45:25.were given £500,000 before the period, they found the same number
:45:25. > :45:30.in the year before. And that money was therefore waisted. They should
:45:30. > :45:36.have been looking at the grooming of example, there's been an increase in
:45:36. > :45:47.the number of cases of young boys 13% in the space of two years.
:45:47. > :45:53.The point is, I'm trying to alert people to the fact this is the next
:45:53. > :45:58.Jimmy Savile scandal waiting to happen. Unless we attend to it now,
:45:58. > :46:02.we are going to have a crisis about trafficking in this country. We
:46:02. > :46:16.we are going to have a crisis about missing the syringe Tims of the
:46:16. > :46:16.we are going to have a crisis about -- Vic timings. - Vic #2i78s. Do you
:46:16. > :46:23.think there needs to be a shift -- Vic timings. - Vic #2i78s. Do you
:46:23. > :46:34.the focus now? Trafficking is a disagreeing with Andrew. I wouldn't
:46:34. > :46:37.want and -- resources taken away. The statutory agencies who seem
:46:37. > :46:41.want and -- resources taken away. be not performing terribly well
:46:41. > :46:43.want and -- resources taken away. more money. One of the things that
:46:43. > :46:57.is very controversial that you say opportunities. What are you talking
:46:57. > :47:21.a fairly dangerous course of action opportunities. What are you talking
:47:21. > :47:24.a fairly dangerous course of action under 18, they do not have the
:47:24. > :47:26.ability to make any kind of consent whatsoever and we need to protect
:47:26. > :47:30.them but the fact is that while whatsoever and we need to protect
:47:30. > :47:37.concentrate on trafficking only taking place in brothels, we are
:47:37. > :47:41.missing the young victims. Do these distinctions help the argument?
:47:41. > :47:43.missing the young victims. Do these sounds like an intellectual argument
:47:43. > :47:51.about something which is terrible gang masters act, that was after
:47:51. > :47:56.Cotton pickers died in their dozens and this is the other side of the
:47:56. > :48:01.same coin. Mary is right and I don't think Andrew is disagreeing, this is
:48:02. > :48:13.exploited for sex and who have been exploited for sex and who have been
:48:13. > :48:20.exploited for Labour. I don't think we are giving enough attention
:48:20. > :48:31.across the piece. He is saying there have dealt with some nasty cases
:48:31. > :48:36.over the years, young people are exploited both male and female with
:48:36. > :48:42.dreadful consequences either way. Sometimes there are sectors of
:48:42. > :48:44.victims who are not as readily perceived as others, but I think the
:48:45. > :48:51.police have upped their game as perceived as others, but I think the
:48:51. > :48:56.as that is concerned. We need better working between the agencies, often
:48:56. > :49:05.the information is already there. problem is that the agencies are not
:49:05. > :49:15.pleas from people who have come problem is that the agencies are not
:49:16. > :49:19.the police stations, not recognising them as victims of trafficking.
:49:19. > :49:35.the police stations, not recognising much as we may think we are arguing
:49:35. > :49:47.are missing a whole level of abuse. police just got a mere few hundred
:49:47. > :49:52.brothels during the Olympics, one of the major sporting events of the
:49:52. > :49:54.brothels during the Olympics, one of last decade. You are right, but
:49:54. > :49:56.brothels during the Olympics, one of the resources are not that great,
:49:56. > :50:02.brothels during the Olympics, one of surely it concentrates your mind on
:50:02. > :50:08.spending them even more wisely. What is your response to the anti-slavery
:50:08. > :50:13.act that will be proposed? I think it could be a good thing. I think it
:50:13. > :50:15.act that will be proposed? I think is very good that the Home Secretary
:50:15. > :50:18.is taking notice of this issue and it is a good thing it is being
:50:18. > :50:21.introduced. I think we need to look introduced. I think we need to look
:50:21. > :50:24.carefully at it to make sure it introduced. I think we need to look
:50:24. > :50:28.the sorts of things which are going to deal with the issues we have
:50:28. > :50:31.the sorts of things which are going racing today so we need to watch it
:50:31. > :50:35.but in principle it is a good thing. against their will, difficult for
:50:35. > :50:40.the authorities to know what to against their will, difficult for
:50:40. > :50:44.but if people come to the police station and tell them, why don't
:50:44. > :50:49.they respond? I'm glad we have all recognised Theresa May has taken an
:50:49. > :50:54.important initiative and I think there is crossed -- cross-party
:50:54. > :51:01.consensus but it comes down to making sure police officers on the
:51:01. > :51:03.middle management and front line are aware of the issues and respond
:51:03. > :51:08.appropriately. It is not unique aware of the issues and respond
:51:08. > :51:13.this issue that sometimes you find the police frankly not giving the
:51:13. > :51:23.response that they should be. We strengthen the framework within
:51:23. > :51:32.which the officers are working. London is producing more rubbish
:51:32. > :51:33.than it can process. The gap is growing and there are ambitious
:51:34. > :51:38.targets to end household waste going growing and there are ambitious
:51:38. > :51:38.targets to end household waste going to landfill by 2025, and to double
:51:38. > :51:43.the average recycling rates by to landfill by 2025, and to double
:51:43. > :51:54.New facilities are needed to get on rarely popular with the locals.
:51:54. > :52:13.New facilities are needed to get on 850,000 tonnes of rubbish each
:52:13. > :52:21.New facilities are needed to get on and burn the rest as fuel. This
:52:22. > :52:22.New facilities are needed to get on million. This was a massive exercise
:52:22. > :52:25.in logistics, in financing, and million. This was a massive exercise
:52:25. > :52:30.technology so you are going to spend the right amount of money to get the
:52:30. > :52:36.right and proper information to decision. The authority says the
:52:36. > :52:40.plan was dropped because local planning changes over the summer
:52:40. > :52:47.mean it is more likely to be able to replace this incinerator in Edmonton
:52:47. > :52:52.and save money. But the pink way allowance has long warned about
:52:52. > :52:56.and save money. But the pink way cost and said the whole process
:52:56. > :52:57.and save money. But the pink way been badly handled. It is a terrible
:52:57. > :53:09.waste of taxpayers' money and it been badly handled. It is a terrible
:53:09. > :53:13.waste of taxpayers' money and it Campaigners say they will not let
:53:13. > :53:16.the Pinkham Way site become an industrial site. Has it been a waste
:53:16. > :53:22.of time and money? Listening to industrial site. Has it been a waste
:53:22. > :53:27.interview, clearly an assessment has been made that the money spent has
:53:27. > :53:32.identified what could or could not have been done, the alternative
:53:32. > :53:34.identified what could or could not they say will save £900 million
:53:34. > :53:37.identified what could or could not in these austere times I don't think
:53:38. > :53:40.it is a difficult question for local authorities to conclude. The life of
:53:40. > :53:44.the incinerator in Edmonton has authorities to conclude. The life of
:53:45. > :53:47.extended. Is that the right way authorities to conclude. The life of
:53:47. > :53:53.deal with the waste issues Londoners will be facing? The waste issues are
:53:53. > :54:06.difficult ones, I remember years ago Lucky you! I used to get all of
:54:06. > :54:08.difficult ones, I remember years ago fun jobs, but it is a serious issue
:54:08. > :54:39.he is now working with the London and my concern about this is making
:54:39. > :54:42.he is now working with the London million of abortive expenditure
:54:42. > :54:45.he is now working with the London get where we are. The recycling
:54:45. > :54:48.board says there will be 4 million tonnes of rubbish that the city
:54:48. > :54:52.board says there will be 4 million not have the infrastructure to deal
:54:52. > :54:57.with in the future, that is a crisis waiting to happen, isn't it? It
:54:57. > :55:09.with in the future, that is a crisis an indictment, we need to get on top
:55:09. > :55:22.of that. How? It has taken so long backbench MP! The government have
:55:22. > :55:28.there, Boris has got all his finger got to make sure the regulations are
:55:28. > :55:30.there, Boris has got all his finger out and make sure the GMA delivers.
:55:30. > :55:35.The fact we have going to have out and make sure the GMA delivers.
:55:35. > :55:49.million tonnes of extra waste is acceptable. Now it is time for the
:55:50. > :55:53.seconds. Former transport Secretary Andrew Adonis dismissed the call for
:55:53. > :55:57.season ticket tax breaks from Boris Johnson as a classic Boris gimmick
:55:57. > :56:05.saying it would only apply to ticket bought the stuff by employers.
:56:05. > :56:08.Research by the charity Leonard Cheshire Disability found half of
:56:08. > :56:13.London councils make home care visits of only 15 minutes. The
:56:13. > :56:17.government says Short visits can be useful sometimes but the charity
:56:17. > :56:21.wants them banned. A study has suggested a link between exposure to
:56:21. > :56:28.noise pollution from living near airports and an increased risk of
:56:28. > :56:31.strokes and cardiovascular illness. The advertising standards authority
:56:31. > :56:39.says the claim on Home Office vans driven through London in July and
:56:39. > :57:01.106 arrests made in your area last week were misleading. It added
:57:01. > :57:03.106 arrests made in your area last good thing to be dissuading people
:57:03. > :57:05.106 arrests made in your area last to be here illegally. At the end of
:57:05. > :57:13.the day, we were talking about this earlier on, the issue over the EDL,
:57:13. > :57:17.illegally and it makes it hard for communities who have come here
:57:17. > :57:21.properly and they are working hard. If you are here illegally, I don't
:57:21. > :57:28.think this is something to apologise for. The authority said it was not
:57:28. > :57:32.offensive, it was just inaccurate. If we are going to be prejudiced, we
:57:32. > :57:37.have to deal with that truthfully and the fact that the advertising
:57:37. > :57:41.standards agency said that the adverts were not factual, that plays
:57:41. > :57:48.into the hands of the extremists because that says the government is
:57:48. > :57:59.everything to camouflage the issue. think it was pandering to the EDL,
:57:59. > :58:04.we need to have an argument with the think it was pandering to the EDL,
:58:04. > :58:09.communities and build a cohesive society. Everybody wants to see
:58:09. > :58:12.communities and build a cohesive and these tactics were plain wrong.
:58:12. > :58:26.That is all we have time for. Back ministerial team this week with
:58:26. > :58:29.That is all we have time for. Back commentators calling it the purge of
:58:29. > :58:34.the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane
:58:34. > :58:39.Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on
:58:39. > :58:43.the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending
:58:43. > :58:52.the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.
:58:52. > :59:10.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He think the thing that did it for
:59:10. > :59:14.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He no idea but the fact that I was
:59:14. > :59:19.Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He public about my concerns on Syria
:59:19. > :59:27.probably tipped my enemies in the end he agreed with your line on
:59:27. > :59:33.probably tipped my enemies in the Syria so why would that be for
:59:33. > :59:37.dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke
:59:37. > :59:39.dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:39. > :59:49.which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:49. > :59:56.forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like
:59:56. > :00:12.people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I
:00:12. > :00:15.think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People
:00:15. > :00:21.increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People
:00:21. > :00:28.I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr
:00:28. > :00:34.Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his
:00:34. > :00:38.best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour
:00:38. > :00:44.Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour
:00:44. > :00:50.will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be
:00:50. > :00:55.loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be
:00:55. > :00:59.loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others
:00:59. > :01:05.were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to
:01:05. > :01:08.were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly
:01:08. > :01:12.around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy
:01:12. > :01:20.with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,
:01:20. > :01:22.with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are
:01:22. > :01:45.sure Tristram will be aware of that. thing. But diminishing the role
:01:45. > :01:47.sure Tristram will be aware of that. As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel
:01:47. > :01:56.knows some of the cuts the Tories ublingtive in -- productive in terms
:01:56. > :01:58.of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would
:01:58. > :02:06.you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would
:02:06. > :02:10.haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and
:02:10. > :02:15.see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the
:02:15. > :02:21.papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for
:02:21. > :02:26.Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor
:02:26. > :02:26.Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what
:02:26. > :02:30.Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what
:02:30. > :02:35.me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the
:02:35. > :02:42.same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know
:02:42. > :02:52.going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your
:02:52. > :02:58.old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what
:02:58. > :03:07.would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot
:03:07. > :03:16.of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have
:03:16. > :03:20.to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of
:03:20. > :03:28.getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of
:03:28. > :03:32.getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week
:03:32. > :03:34.getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.
:03:35. > :03:39.I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if
:03:39. > :03:42.you walk around London sub usual ya, to middle England. You will find if
:03:42. > :03:43.you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love
:03:43. > :03:47.This Week. Love This Week. I thought they all know me and they all love
:03:47. > :03:55.you were going to say they all love Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy
:03:55. > :04:07.chappie on Thursday night. You can't her. She had decided to leave this
:04:07. > :04:15.something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a
:04:15. > :04:20.something else in politics. She serious and was committed to the
:04:20. > :04:29.issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a
:04:29. > :04:37.thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask
:04:37. > :04:40.thing. You just mentioned about Someone who's an eminent person
:04:40. > :04:42.thing. You just mentioned about this programme, I don't know how he
:04:42. > :04:47.could do that. I think Michael's missing you. Are you free this
:04:47. > :04:52.Thursday night? Make him a happy man, come back to the fold. I think
:04:52. > :04:57.I may be free this Thursday night. So, if he'll have me, I'll be there.
:04:57. > :05:02.My people will speak to your people. We'll get it sorted out. Diane,
:05:02. > :05:07.watch that big vase behind you, you're not insured for. That thanks
:05:07. > :05:13.Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well
:05:13. > :05:19.known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside
:05:19. > :05:21.known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally
:05:21. > :05:26.done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor
:05:26. > :05:29.done well in the mayoral election. running an economy the size of a
:05:29. > :05:31.nation. It is a very serious job. There may be problems with her
:05:31. > :05:39.running? That was a transparent There may be problems with her
:05:39. > :05:50.for it. She's potentially a very compelling Coll ticks. People have
:05:50. > :05:57.left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said
:05:57. > :06:07.he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What
:06:07. > :06:10.Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good
:06:10. > :06:16.way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in
:06:16. > :06:21.way of connecting wi people. She candidate. It will probably be a
:06:21. > :06:25.Labour wins the 2015 election it may Labour win next time. Depends, if
:06:25. > :06:25.Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger
:06:25. > :06:42.That's true. London is traditionally primary but isn't necessarily a
:06:42. > :06:46.That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to
:06:46. > :06:51.win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I
:06:51. > :06:55.think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from
:06:55. > :07:04.their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that
:07:04. > :07:06.were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:06. > :07:10.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:10. > :07:11.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing
:07:11. > :07:21.than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing
:07:21. > :07:29.stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by
:07:29. > :07:34.This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those
:07:34. > :07:38.people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into
:07:38. > :07:43.coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there
:07:43. > :07:46.coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred
:07:46. > :07:49.areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the
:07:49. > :07:52.Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the
:07:52. > :07:58.immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went
:07:58. > :08:03.down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home
:08:03. > :08:13.somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg
:08:13. > :08:18.has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,
:08:18. > :08:22.away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's
:08:22. > :08:27.won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes
:08:27. > :08:31.won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home
:08:31. > :08:37.vote on the left. And please The Guardian. This is important for
:08:37. > :08:41.that Nick Clegg has to keep his something else going on which is
:08:41. > :08:43.that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That
:08:43. > :08:47.involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats
:08:47. > :09:03.because vacancies have to be created losing their jobs, Michael Moore,
:09:03. > :09:07.because vacancies have to be created Liberal Democrat MPs will have been
:09:07. > :09:13.on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on
:09:13. > :09:15.to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the
:09:15. > :09:20.parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the
:09:20. > :09:31.will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We
:09:31. > :09:37.moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord
:09:37. > :09:45.Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state
:09:45. > :09:51.involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media
:09:51. > :09:56.interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier
:09:56. > :10:01.he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed
:10:01. > :10:07.Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I
:10:07. > :10:12.think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that
:10:12. > :10:19.Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is
:10:19. > :10:21.Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't
:10:21. > :10:25.sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't
:10:25. > :10:30.ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't
:10:30. > :10:32.industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't
:10:33. > :10:40.what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,
:10:40. > :10:45.Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory
:10:45. > :10:54.regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you
:10:54. > :11:02.don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing
:11:02. > :11:06.the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.
:11:06. > :11:08.Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't
:11:08. > :11:30.but most, will go the legal route be a club with no members. It won't
:11:30. > :11:33.Government's proposing and will be a club with no members. It won't
:11:33. > :11:41.it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They
:11:41. > :11:43.it to strains Bowring where freedom fight this? There is enough fury
:11:43. > :11:47.amongst Fleet Street to result in that. The big political question
:11:47. > :11:51.going forward is which of the party leaders does the press blame the
:11:51. > :11:55.most for the emergence of press regulation? The Tories are very
:11:55. > :12:00.confident they'll blame Ed Miliband the most. They'll target him before
:12:00. > :12:08.2015. David Cameron gave us Brian Leveson. You appoint a judge who
:12:08. > :12:13.shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big
:12:13. > :12:22.chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who
:12:22. > :12:32.intended what will happen. If he had have appointed Brian Leveson. If
:12:33. > :12:37.they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that
:12:37. > :12:41.they face more punitive fines over Europe. The Daily Mail and the
:12:41. > :12:46.tallest presumably will have to suspend their campaign of Britain to
:12:46. > :12:54.leave the European Convention of suspend that. We must never come out
:12:54. > :13:01.Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major
:13:01. > :13:05.constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was
:13:05. > :13:08.constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie
:13:09. > :13:13.ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said
:13:13. > :13:17.freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.
:13:17. > :13:20.The whole subject should be treated to sneak out on afully afternoon.
:13:20. > :13:24.The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.
:13:24. > :13:27.I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles
:13:27. > :14:00.at our usual time of 11.00am. If