:00:40. > :00:52.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:53. > :00:57.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:58. > :01:02.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:03. > :01:06.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:07. > :01:11.capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:12. > :01:16.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:17. > :01:22.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:23. > :01:28.should be covered up. We will ask the Muslim Council of Britain what
:01:29. > :01:34.they are doing to stop extremism in our midst. In London why one local
:01:35. > :01:39.authority is investigating -- investing thousands of pounds in a
:01:40. > :01:48.GPS tracking system to keep tabs on its staff.
:01:49. > :01:52.With me as always, the best and the brightest political panel, Helen
:01:53. > :01:55.Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who will be tweeting their
:01:56. > :02:00.humiliating climb-down is what they got wrong last week in the
:02:01. > :02:06.programme. If this can happen it to a Cabinet minister, what hope is
:02:07. > :02:09.there for anyone else? Thus the Home Affairs Select Committee concluded
:02:10. > :02:14.what many already thought about the treatment of Andrew Mitchell by
:02:15. > :02:19.three self-styled PC plebs. They met him to clear the air over what did
:02:20. > :02:22.or did not happen when he was prevented from ramming his bike
:02:23. > :02:27.through the Downing Street gates. But the officers gave the media and
:02:28. > :02:33.inaccurate account of that meeting. Two of them are even accused of
:02:34. > :02:35.misleading the Commons committee. The Independent Police Complaints
:02:36. > :02:41.Commission will now reopen there enquiry. This is not a story about
:02:42. > :02:48.Andrew Mitchell, it is about the police. Keith Vaz is often in high
:02:49. > :02:53.dudgeon and this is the highest dad and I have seen him in for some
:02:54. > :02:55.time. They could be held for contempt of Parliament and
:02:56. > :03:01.technically they could be sent to prison. It has blown up into an
:03:02. > :03:06.enormous story. I do not know what is worse, the police trying to
:03:07. > :03:09.stitch up a Cabinet member and try to mislead the media or the
:03:10. > :03:18.incompetence they have done it from day one. That is quite good. I would
:03:19. > :03:23.sleep more soundly at night if I knew the pleas were good at this. It
:03:24. > :03:28.is the incompetence that shocks me. And this is just a sideshow. We are
:03:29. > :03:32.still waiting on the main report as to what exactly happened outside
:03:33. > :03:37.Downing Street gates. But that not will be good for the police either.
:03:38. > :03:42.The file has gone from the Metropolitan police to the CPS, so
:03:43. > :03:48.we are limited about what we can say. This is about the police
:03:49. > :03:54.Federation. They were set up under statute in 1990 as a deal in which a
:03:55. > :03:58.police would not go on strike. This is a political campaign to get a
:03:59. > :04:02.Cabinet minister out and the legacy of this is the police Federation
:04:03. > :04:08.will have to be reformed. We will keep an eye on it. They were Ed
:04:09. > :04:15.Miliband's union backers, they swung the Labour leadership for him in
:04:16. > :04:19.2010. Now the Unite union looks like his biggest headache. The Sunday
:04:20. > :04:22.Times has seen extracts of the report into the alleged vote rigging
:04:23. > :04:30.to select a Labour candidate in Falkirk. There was evidence of
:04:31. > :04:34.coercion and Gregory as well as deliberate attempt to frustrate the
:04:35. > :04:39.enquiry. We will be speaking to Len McCluskey, the Unite union's General
:04:40. > :04:45.Secretary, in a moment. First out the saga began an almost ended up
:04:46. > :04:50.with the loss of 800 jobs at a petrochemical plant in Grangemouth.
:04:51. > :04:54.Unite were key players in the Grangemouth dispute and the union
:04:55. > :04:59.headed by Len McCluskey has come under fire for its intimidator Tariq
:05:00. > :05:01.tactics. In one instance demonstrators complete with an
:05:02. > :05:10.inflatable rat picketed the home of a INEOS director. The police were
:05:11. > :05:16.called. It was part of a strategy the union called leverage. But
:05:17. > :05:21.turning up at people's houses seems to represent an escalation. At the
:05:22. > :05:26.centre of the rout was Steve in deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS
:05:27. > :05:30.launched an investigation into him as he was suspected of using company
:05:31. > :05:35.time to engineer the selection of labour's candidate in Falkirk. That
:05:36. > :05:42.candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans
:05:43. > :05:52.resigned last week and denies any wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic
:05:53. > :05:58.climb-down by Unite union. Len McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to
:05:59. > :06:07.the Sunday Times we now know what is in this labour report on the Falkirk
:06:08. > :06:11.vote rigging. Forgery, coercion, trickery, manipulation. You must be
:06:12. > :06:19.ashamed of how Unite union behaved in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article
:06:20. > :06:23.is lazy journalism. There is nothing new in the article. This was all
:06:24. > :06:29.dealt with by the Labour Party in the summer. We rejected those
:06:30. > :06:33.allegations then and we said we had done nothing wrong and both the
:06:34. > :06:38.Labour Party and the police in Scotland indicated there had been no
:06:39. > :06:44.wrongdoing. The report itself says you were trying to thwart the
:06:45. > :06:48.investigation. First you tried to fix the selection of a candidate to
:06:49. > :06:54.get your woman in and then you thwarted the investigation into the
:06:55. > :06:59.dirty deeds. The reality is the Labour Party report was deeply
:07:00. > :07:05.flawed. The Labour Party then instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to
:07:06. > :07:09.do an in-depth investigation and during that investigation they got
:07:10. > :07:14.to the bottom of what had happened and they decided there was no
:07:15. > :07:20.wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I was so confident we had done
:07:21. > :07:24.nothing, I called for an independent enquiry. They were forced to
:07:25. > :07:27.conclude there was no wrongdoing because the people who originally
:07:28. > :07:32.complained changed their evidence and we now know they did so because
:07:33. > :07:39.Unite union officials helped them to rewrite their retraction and Stevie
:07:40. > :07:45.Deans approved it. That is not true. We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into
:07:46. > :07:53.the public arena and what is that all about? Who is leaking this? They
:07:54. > :07:59.showed the Unite union was rewriting the retractions. This interview
:08:00. > :08:04.would go a lot better if you are allowed me to finish the question
:08:05. > :08:11.that you asked. These e-mails were put into the public arena by the PR
:08:12. > :08:17.company from INEOS. Why are they doing this? The truth of the matter
:08:18. > :08:21.is that all of the investigations that took place demonstrate there
:08:22. > :08:26.was nothing to answer. This idea that the Unite union has rewritten
:08:27. > :08:32.and the evidence from the families has been withdrawn, the families are
:08:33. > :08:40.a part of Stevie deems' family. They clarified the position. Do you deny
:08:41. > :08:47.that union officials were involved in the retractions? I deny it
:08:48. > :08:50.completely. This is important. Independent solicitors to witness
:08:51. > :08:58.statements from the family and they are the ones that were influencing
:08:59. > :09:04.the Labour Party with the position is clarified and there is no case to
:09:05. > :09:14.answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw their retractions? It is his family.
:09:15. > :09:18.So you do not deny it? It is his family. This is an ordinary, decent
:09:19. > :09:24.family who were faced with the full weight of the pleas, a forensic
:09:25. > :09:31.solicitor. Of course they spoke to Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a
:09:32. > :09:37.cesspit. Does it not need an independent investigation? This is a
:09:38. > :09:42.trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all the
:09:43. > :09:48.demands. The media, the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, the Conservative
:09:49. > :09:56.mouthpiece, they are laying tracks for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband
:09:57. > :10:00.should not fall into them. Since when did it become part of an
:10:01. > :10:09.industrial dispute to send mobs to the home of company families. This
:10:10. > :10:16.is a legitimate form of protest and it is a silent protest. We believe
:10:17. > :10:20.if faceless directors are making decisions that cripple communities,
:10:21. > :10:28.they cannot expect to simply drift back to their own leafy suburbia and
:10:29. > :10:35.not be countable. This is silent protest. It is lawful. It may be
:10:36. > :10:40.silent in Grangemouth, but it was not silent elsewhere. You went with
:10:41. > :10:47.a giant rat, loud-hailers telling everybody the neighbour was evil.
:10:48. > :10:53.No, we did not. You had loud-hailers, you even encouraged
:10:54. > :11:04.passing children in Grangemouth to join in. That is nonsense. Look at
:11:05. > :11:08.the rat. The reality is the Grangemouth community was going to
:11:09. > :11:15.be decimated, Grangemouth was going to become a ghost town. I reject
:11:16. > :11:19.totally this idea there were loud-hailers and children involved.
:11:20. > :11:26.That is a lie perpetrated by the Daily Mail. But you have used these
:11:27. > :11:33.tactics in other disputes. We have used the tactics in other disputes,
:11:34. > :11:38.but we have not used loud-hailers at people's homes. Because the labour
:11:39. > :11:44.laws are so restrictive we have to look at every available means that
:11:45. > :11:49.we can protest. It is an outrage, an absolute outrage, that this is
:11:50. > :11:55.happening to British workers in the 21st-century. It could not happen
:11:56. > :12:01.elsewhere. Is not intimidation the wider hallmark of your union? You
:12:02. > :12:06.were quoted as saying to do whatever it takes during your attempts to
:12:07. > :12:14.take over the Labour Falkirk constituency. You were instructing
:12:15. > :12:24.to dig out the nasty stuff on your opponents. That is not true. Let's
:12:25. > :12:29.see these e-mails? This is a con trick. Nobody is looking to dig
:12:30. > :12:36.out... This is the words of your legal services advisor. Unite has
:12:37. > :12:41.tried to instigate a revival of trade union values within the Labour
:12:42. > :12:46.Party. That is what Ed Miliband wanted us to do. As soon as we
:12:47. > :12:52.started to be in any way ineffective, there were screams and
:12:53. > :12:57.howls of derision. When the company started to investigate Stevie Deans,
:12:58. > :13:02.your friend, your campaign manager, that he was using company time to
:13:03. > :13:06.moonlight on the job, you called INEOS and said unless you stop the
:13:07. > :13:13.investigation we will bring Grangemouth to a standstill. I never
:13:14. > :13:22.said that at all. You brought it to a standstill. We never brought it to
:13:23. > :13:27.a standstill, the company did. Who says that I said that we would bring
:13:28. > :13:32.it to a standstill? You have read it in the newspapers. You should not
:13:33. > :13:38.believe everything. I did not make that threat to the management. You
:13:39. > :13:45.carried the threat out. You instigated an overtime ban and a
:13:46. > :13:48.work to rule. And that is what Grangemouth to a standstill because
:13:49. > :13:54.the company decided to close the petrochemical site down. Because
:13:55. > :14:00.Stevie Deans was suspended due introduced industrial action? Our
:14:01. > :14:07.members in Grangemouth felt he was being unfairly treated. In the end
:14:08. > :14:11.you're grandstanding almost cost Scotland is most important
:14:12. > :14:17.industrial facility. The day was saved by your total capitulation.
:14:18. > :14:25.Grandstanding, capitulation and humiliation are grand phrases. There
:14:26. > :14:29.is nothing about capitulation. Len McCluskey did not wake up one day
:14:30. > :14:35.and decide to have a dispute with INEOS. The workers in that factory
:14:36. > :14:39.democratically elect their shop stewards to represent them and to
:14:40. > :14:46.express to management their concerns and their views. That is what
:14:47. > :14:51.happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has condemned your union's handling of
:14:52. > :14:56.Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have you considered your position? Jack
:14:57. > :15:01.Straw and others in the Labour Party, you have to ask them what
:15:02. > :15:07.their agenda is. I am not interested in what he says. The truth of the
:15:08. > :15:14.matter is we responded to the requirements and needs of our
:15:15. > :15:19.members. At a mass meeting last Monday 100% supported their shop
:15:20. > :15:23.stewards and their union. We will continue to stand shoulder to
:15:24. > :15:28.shoulder with our members when they are faced with difficult situations.
:15:29. > :15:35.You have lost all the union rights. You have had to agree to a no strike
:15:36. > :15:41.rule, you have lost pension rights. We have not lost rights at all, we
:15:42. > :15:46.are still working with the company to implement its survival plan. The
:15:47. > :15:50.Prime Minister is always attacking unions and just lately he has taken
:15:51. > :15:57.to praising the automotive industry. Jaguar Land Rover,
:15:58. > :16:02.Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all Unite union members were the shop
:16:03. > :16:07.stewards are engaged positively to implement survival plans and to make
:16:08. > :16:12.a success for the company. That is what we do, but by the same token we
:16:13. > :16:16.stand shoulder to shoulder with our members who are in struggle and we
:16:17. > :16:23.will always do that and we will not be cowed by media attacks on us. Is
:16:24. > :16:36.your leadership not proving to be as disastrous for the members as Arthur
:16:37. > :16:41.Scargill was for the NUM? My membership is growing. I am
:16:42. > :16:44.accountable to my members, two are executive, and the one thing they
:16:45. > :16:49.will know is that when they want me standing shoulder to shoulder with
:16:50. > :16:52.them when they have a problem, I will be there, despite the
:16:53. > :17:06.disgraceful attacks launched on us by the media.
:17:07. > :17:09."A country ready to welcome your investment which values your
:17:10. > :17:11.friendship and will never exclude anyone because of their race,
:17:12. > :17:14.religion, colour or creed." The words of the Prime minister at the
:17:15. > :17:18.World Islamic Economic Forum which was hosted for the first time in
:17:19. > :17:21.London this week. The PM's warm words are sure to be welcomed by
:17:22. > :17:23.British Muslims who have endured a spate of negative headlines. There's
:17:24. > :17:26.been the controversy over the wearing of the veil, attitudes to
:17:27. > :17:29.women, and the radicalisation of some young British Muslims. In a
:17:30. > :17:32.moment I'll be talking to the Secretary General of the Muslim
:17:33. > :17:43.Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. First - here's Giles Dilnot. The
:17:44. > :17:46.call to Friday prayers at the east London Mosque which has strong links
:17:47. > :17:52.with the Muslim Council of Britain, one of the more vocal groups amongst
:17:53. > :17:57.British Muslims. Despite the fact it frequently happens, it is neither
:17:58. > :18:01.helpful nor accurate to describe the British Muslim community. There are
:18:02. > :18:05.so many different sects, traditions, cultures and
:18:06. > :18:09.nationalities, it is more accurate to describe the British Muslim
:18:10. > :18:13.communities, but there is one question being put to them - are
:18:14. > :18:20.they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues?
:18:21. > :18:23.they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues Are
:18:24. > :18:27.they willing to confront radicalisation, attitudes to
:18:28. > :18:32.non-muslins, two women, and cases of sexual exploitation in a meaningful
:18:33. > :18:41.way? A number of them say no, not nearly enough. This former jihad de
:18:42. > :18:46.has spent ten years telling young Muslim teenagers how they can reject
:18:47. > :18:50.extremist radicalisation, using Outward Bound courses and community
:18:51. > :19:01.work, but he and others doing this work thing -- think some elders are
:19:02. > :19:11.failing the youngsters. This has been going on for decades, one
:19:12. > :19:15.figures -- thing is said in public to please people but in private
:19:16. > :19:21.something very different is being said and the messages are being
:19:22. > :19:27.confused. Some of the young people, it pushes them further into a space
:19:28. > :19:34.where they are vulnerable for radical recruiters. For many Muslim
:19:35. > :19:39.youngsters, life is about living 1's faith within an increasingly secular
:19:40. > :19:42.society, a struggle not helped if rigid interpretations of the Koran
:19:43. > :19:54.are being preached, say some sectors. Some practices often don't
:19:55. > :19:57.make sense in 21st-century Britain, and you are perhaps creating
:19:58. > :20:01.obstacles if you stick to those and it is perhaps better to let go of
:20:02. > :20:08.those cultural problems, especially when they need to clear injustices
:20:09. > :20:11.like forced marriage, reticence to talk about grooming for example or
:20:12. > :20:14.talk about grooming for example, or discrimination against women. There
:20:15. > :20:21.is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the
:20:22. > :20:27.one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist
:20:28. > :20:38.perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of
:20:39. > :20:53.minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public
:20:54. > :21:04.places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy
:21:05. > :21:08.of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and
:21:09. > :21:11.that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the
:21:12. > :21:17.preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council
:21:18. > :21:21.of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating
:21:22. > :21:27.sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved
:21:28. > :21:34.predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for
:21:35. > :21:40.some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We
:21:41. > :21:47.need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the
:21:48. > :21:51.normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and
:21:52. > :21:58.chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that
:21:59. > :22:04.actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible
:22:05. > :22:10.with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to
:22:11. > :22:14.women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures
:22:15. > :22:18.of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain
:22:19. > :22:27.itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they
:22:28. > :22:35.are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to
:22:36. > :22:36.are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are
:22:37. > :22:40.experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages,
:22:41. > :22:44.what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not
:22:45. > :22:49.being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance
:22:50. > :22:51.rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been
:22:52. > :22:56.found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in
:22:57. > :23:03.this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what
:23:04. > :23:09.are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem
:23:10. > :23:13.of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be
:23:14. > :23:17.exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many
:23:18. > :23:22.Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a
:23:23. > :23:30.big cultural gap will exist between the two.
:23:31. > :23:32.And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq
:23:33. > :23:41.Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the
:23:42. > :23:49.veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible
:23:50. > :23:56.to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory
:23:57. > :23:59.requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting
:24:00. > :24:13.themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst
:24:14. > :24:16.wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life
:24:17. > :24:20.successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red
:24:21. > :24:27.herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim
:24:28. > :24:37.girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point
:24:38. > :24:41.of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the
:24:42. > :24:50.public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones
:24:51. > :24:57.who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a
:24:58. > :25:04.practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour
:25:05. > :25:09.it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women
:25:10. > :25:14.should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the
:25:15. > :25:20.veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is
:25:21. > :25:26.important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free
:25:27. > :25:30.choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their
:25:31. > :25:35.free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it
:25:36. > :25:40.helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away
:25:41. > :25:46.from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad
:25:47. > :25:50.thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim
:25:51. > :25:56.preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim
:25:57. > :26:02.women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim
:26:03. > :26:09.women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being
:26:10. > :26:15.forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and
:26:16. > :26:20.what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,
:26:21. > :26:25.very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is
:26:26. > :26:31.wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other
:26:32. > :26:35.Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider
:26:36. > :26:45.that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any
:26:46. > :26:48.Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an
:26:49. > :26:54.organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not
:26:55. > :27:01.coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by
:27:02. > :27:05.individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that
:27:06. > :27:10.would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would
:27:11. > :27:22.not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires
:27:23. > :27:30.children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you
:27:31. > :27:39.agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have
:27:40. > :27:47.just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a
:27:48. > :27:53.black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on
:27:54. > :28:04.anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.
:28:05. > :28:11.I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think
:28:12. > :28:16.it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would
:28:17. > :28:28.wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some
:28:29. > :28:35.muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the
:28:36. > :28:38.start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I
:28:39. > :28:48.would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic
:28:49. > :28:52.girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the
:28:53. > :29:01.top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.
:29:02. > :29:05.But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those
:29:06. > :29:13.girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I
:29:14. > :29:19.am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.
:29:20. > :29:31.There is a very conservative movement from the continent on
:29:32. > :29:35.Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their
:29:36. > :29:43.website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged
:29:44. > :29:47.to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should
:29:48. > :29:52.not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you
:29:53. > :29:57.think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They
:29:58. > :30:06.are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree
:30:07. > :30:14.with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is
:30:15. > :30:19.what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is
:30:20. > :30:42.quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you
:30:43. > :30:45.agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back
:30:46. > :30:51.to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.
:30:52. > :30:59.This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.
:31:00. > :31:06.Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday
:31:07. > :31:17.mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your
:31:18. > :31:27.counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they
:31:28. > :31:33.have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is
:31:34. > :31:38.advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the
:31:39. > :31:45.Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The
:31:46. > :31:51.Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots
:31:52. > :31:59.of common issues to create a community which positively
:32:00. > :32:07.integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate
:32:08. > :32:10.for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications
:32:11. > :32:18.available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your
:32:19. > :32:28.organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall
:32:29. > :32:38.under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British
:32:39. > :32:43.mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of
:32:44. > :32:49.prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to
:32:50. > :32:55.prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very
:32:56. > :33:04.beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?
:33:05. > :33:14.Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council
:33:15. > :33:18.have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious
:33:19. > :33:26.stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at
:33:27. > :33:43.this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.
:33:44. > :33:55.That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we
:33:56. > :34:00.live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they
:34:01. > :34:05.have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You
:34:06. > :34:12.would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like
:34:13. > :34:20.that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation
:34:21. > :34:21.to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission's
:34:22. > :34:27.bound by the Charity commission s rules and regulations. We only
:34:28. > :34:34.accept those who are under the law of this country. This is a matter of
:34:35. > :34:44.taste. Let me move on to a bigger issue. In 2009 you signed the
:34:45. > :34:50.Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul declaration was signed. Do you still
:34:51. > :35:02.support it? No, we never signed it or supported it. One of your leading
:35:03. > :35:08.lights signed it. In the media mainstream he defended his position.
:35:09. > :35:16.You have this associated yourself from it? What is wrong with that? I
:35:17. > :35:22.am not sure about the declaration because we disassociated ourselves.
:35:23. > :35:31.Before reading it? We did not sign it. You have not read it? I do not
:35:32. > :35:37.know all the aspects of the declaration, but at the time in the
:35:38. > :35:47.national newspapers and media there was a discussion and a debate and it
:35:48. > :35:54.was highlighted that that was not what was meant by the declaration.
:35:55. > :36:02.When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From
:36:03. > :36:08.day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are
:36:09. > :36:14.personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of
:36:15. > :36:25.extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the
:36:26. > :36:29.mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described
:36:30. > :36:32.by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another
:36:33. > :36:38.speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad
:36:39. > :36:43.is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop
:36:44. > :36:51.extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with?
:36:52. > :36:57.We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or
:36:58. > :37:01.supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is
:37:02. > :37:07.a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is
:37:08. > :37:13.a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told
:37:14. > :37:18.their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to
:37:19. > :37:28.speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a
:37:29. > :37:35.Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did
:37:36. > :37:41.not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and
:37:42. > :37:50.have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I
:37:51. > :37:56.completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women,
:37:57. > :38:01.the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the
:38:02. > :38:06.toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted
:38:07. > :38:12.among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a
:38:13. > :38:20.non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which
:38:21. > :38:27.embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim
:38:28. > :38:32.community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which
:38:33. > :38:37.are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our
:38:38. > :38:43.view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The
:38:44. > :38:49.work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all
:38:50. > :38:54.associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are
:38:55. > :39:00.watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be talking to joke Umunna
:39:01. > :39:13.and looking at the week ahead with our political pattern. Until then,
:39:14. > :39:18.the Sunday Politics across the UK. Welcome to us and my guest for the
:39:19. > :39:23.next 20 minutes, Steven Reid, the Labour MP for Croydon North, and
:39:24. > :39:28.Theresa Villiers, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Coming
:39:29. > :39:31.up later, the London council which is spending tens of thousands of
:39:32. > :39:37.pounds electronically monitoring some of its staff. But first, to the
:39:38. > :39:43.big shake-up in emergency health care in London. It affects the four
:39:44. > :39:50.hospitals directly. To accident and emergency departments at Central --
:39:51. > :39:56.Central Middlesex and Hammersmith. But those at Charing Cross and
:39:57. > :40:03.Ealing will continue in a different form. Ealing and Charing Cross are
:40:04. > :40:07.saying they are going to be accident and emergency units, but they do not
:40:08. > :40:13.look like they will be staffed by consultants. Maybe GPs, but they may
:40:14. > :40:20.not take the serious blue light cases. Is there a smoke and mirrors
:40:21. > :40:24.going on? No, the Secretary of State for health has said they will
:40:25. > :40:29.continue to be an accident and emergency service at those
:40:30. > :40:34.hospitals. The whole of the reconfiguration has been looked at
:40:35. > :40:38.by an independent panel and it is driven by clinical need and has
:40:39. > :40:43.significant clinical and GP support for it. It has always got to be the
:40:44. > :40:50.local driver, what is the best for the patients. Why create the
:40:51. > :40:55.impression these are going to be accident and emergency departments?
:40:56. > :41:00.You should be confident about your argument about that? The health
:41:01. > :41:09.secretary has said there will be accident and emergency departments
:41:10. > :41:11.at those hospitals. The key point identified by the minister is that
:41:12. > :41:18.this is the recommendation of experts, the health practitioners in
:41:19. > :41:23.the area and much wider. You cannot complain about it. They had to do
:41:24. > :41:29.the best within the resources the government is giving them and those
:41:30. > :41:33.resources are inadequate. The Health Secretary is calling it an accident
:41:34. > :41:41.and emergency unit, but a different size. They are turning it more into
:41:42. > :41:47.something like an urgent care centre for which there is no definition.
:41:48. > :41:50.That might be what one of the local MPs might say, but the wider
:41:51. > :41:58.configurations is something Labour was saying was necessary.
:41:59. > :42:05.Rationalisation to about five major accident and emergency departments
:42:06. > :42:07.in the area. Local people do not want to see their local departments
:42:08. > :42:15.taken away. In 48 weeks out of 2 taken away. In 48 weeks out of 52
:42:16. > :42:20.London missed the government's four hour waiting time limit. That shows
:42:21. > :42:24.me we have a huge pressure on accident and emergency and reducing
:42:25. > :42:31.the number of units will not help us deal with that kind of pressure. Is
:42:32. > :42:38.this service is really safe in Conservative hands? We are
:42:39. > :42:45.determined to support the NHS in the pressures of accident and emergency.
:42:46. > :42:52.Unlike Labour in Wales, they are decreasing money on the NHS. We have
:42:53. > :42:58.also found extra resources this winter and we are looking at the
:42:59. > :43:04.causes of that extra pressure and part of it was the GP contract
:43:05. > :43:08.signed by the previous government. People find it more difficult to get
:43:09. > :43:13.out of hours care from their GP and they are more likely to turn up at
:43:14. > :43:25.AMD. That is why record numbers are turning up. But recently the four
:43:26. > :43:29.hour waiting time has been good. What about the decision to make
:43:30. > :43:34.changes in Lewisham which was overturned by the High Court this
:43:35. > :43:40.week. What kind of situation is it when judges can prevent a Secretary
:43:41. > :43:45.of State adopting a rational policy to reconfigure services? The court
:43:46. > :43:50.is entitled to look at all sorts of decisions made by ministers. My
:43:51. > :43:55.feeling is sometimes a judicial review is overused. But the
:43:56. > :44:00.important thing is we get the right outcome for hospital services in
:44:01. > :44:05.that area. The key factor has to be what is the clinical case. Does the
:44:06. > :44:12.clinical case say we need to consolidate services? That should be
:44:13. > :44:16.the driver of decisions. Whether ultimately the decision 's end up
:44:17. > :44:26.being reviewed by the court or not is neither here nor there. Much more
:44:27. > :44:31.to come. Stay with us. New council in East London has spent around
:44:32. > :44:37.?100,000 on a radio system which tracks the movement and location of
:44:38. > :44:42.its staff. The council says the GPS devices enable them to deploy
:44:43. > :44:48.security and law enforcement staff more efficiently, but some question
:44:49. > :44:52.is valued at a time of cuts. The GPS uses satellites to track
:44:53. > :45:00.things and people on earth. It has been used at this courier company
:45:01. > :45:03.for about five years. All their vehicles have tracking devices which
:45:04. > :45:07.let people in the office know exactly where they are, where they
:45:08. > :45:13.have been and what speed they have been driving at. You no longer have
:45:14. > :45:19.to take the driver's word for a where they are. It will not stop
:45:20. > :45:24.here. If we can track vehicles and people, I do not know what else we
:45:25. > :45:31.can track, but they will find something. GPS is being used more
:45:32. > :45:37.and more. The market has doubled in the last two years. But just because
:45:38. > :45:40.it is a success in local courier companies, does that mean local
:45:41. > :45:48.authorities should be doing the same thing? According to one London
:45:49. > :45:55.council, the answer is yes. New has spent over ?100,000 on 171 GPS
:45:56. > :46:02.devices to keep an eye on their own staff's whereabouts. The tracking is
:46:03. > :46:10.on the time while the staff is on shift. Is this a first step towards
:46:11. > :46:16.some kind of Big Brother state where employees are constantly monitored
:46:17. > :46:24.by their bosses? You say they have received no complaints yet. We would
:46:25. > :46:28.expect the employee to -- employer to have got the consent of the
:46:29. > :46:33.member of staff to use them and we would expect them to be used because
:46:34. > :46:41.they are doing some kind of enforcement and they needed evidence
:46:42. > :46:43.to take to court that something had happened, or for health and safety
:46:44. > :46:48.reasons when people are put into dangerous situations. Councils
:46:49. > :46:52.across London are dealing with huge cuts to their budgets and new has
:46:53. > :47:01.defined ?62 million worth of savings. This provides accommodation
:47:02. > :47:06.for 16 - 24-year-olds in new who do not have anywhere else to live. But
:47:07. > :47:14.the future of one of the key services, support for young mothers,
:47:15. > :47:18.is being cut. The council is having to reprioritise its funding
:47:19. > :47:25.generally in light of centrally driven cuts. One of the decisions it
:47:26. > :47:31.has taken is that this scheme going forward will not be a supported
:47:32. > :47:34.living scheme for young mothers. Funding costs the council ?41,0 0
:47:35. > :47:36.living scheme for young mothers. Funding costs the council ?41,000 a
:47:37. > :47:40.year, less than half of what they have spent on the GPS system. Some
:47:41. > :47:42.have lost dedicated key workers, have spent on the GPS system. Some
:47:43. > :47:43.have lost dedicated key workers a have lost dedicated key workers, a
:47:44. > :47:51.service that some say makes a difference. It is not easy. People
:47:52. > :47:55.go through hard things. My key worker was my best friend and now
:47:56. > :48:04.she has gone I do not talk to anyone. It is hard, isn't it? We
:48:05. > :48:06.asked new to show us their GPS system, but they declined. They gave
:48:07. > :48:30.us a statement. Others will be watching how the new
:48:31. > :48:34.experiment goes. It could be that in the future workers across the
:48:35. > :48:42.capital I watched in this way. It could even be used. We have just
:48:43. > :48:48.seen the council's explanation. They were replacing their radio system
:48:49. > :48:52.and GPS came as standard. What was the problem they are trying to
:48:53. > :48:58.solve? Why does every member of staff need to be tracked in this
:48:59. > :49:01.way? The trend towards more staff are being monitored in more detail
:49:02. > :49:08.on a personal level is something that is happening across the public
:49:09. > :49:20.and private sectors. Is this central to what they are trying to do? If it
:49:21. > :49:24.was benefit claimants and processing people going for a flag or are going
:49:25. > :49:33.to the toilet, that would be understandable. Firstly, this is a
:49:34. > :49:38.council and not the police. When we talk about responding to an incident
:49:39. > :49:42.it is the peas, not you cancel. The government has just had to take
:49:43. > :49:47.powers of local councils for abusing their surveillance powers. When you
:49:48. > :50:09.have this tracking in place the potential for abuse is a real
:50:10. > :50:15.concern. Peoples main concerns are quality-of-life and things like
:50:16. > :50:20.that. Law has had the duty of mutual confidence and it makes it look like
:50:21. > :50:23.the council doesn't trust its staff. If you are local resident and the
:50:24. > :50:26.council doesn't trust its staff, there is a much bigger cultural
:50:27. > :50:32.issue and I don't think tracking people is the way to improve the
:50:33. > :50:35.relationship between the community, council and its employees. Is there
:50:36. > :50:39.a kind of efficiency measure you would like to see to ensure the
:50:40. > :50:44.council are getting the best out of their staff? It is difficult today
:50:45. > :50:49.because we only have a minimal amount of information about the
:50:50. > :50:54.particular scheme, but certainly the use of GPS can help improve
:50:55. > :50:58.efficiency. We have seen it used for many years in terms of deployment of
:50:59. > :51:03.vehicle fleets. I don't think we should rule it out in principle as
:51:04. > :51:07.an assistance to an employer in keeping an eye on their staff but in
:51:08. > :51:12.particular I think staff safety is something that can be assisted with
:51:13. > :51:18.this kind of tracking. Do you like the look of a Labour council wanting
:51:19. > :51:23.to keep an eye on itself? To be fair to new, they are not micro-chipping
:51:24. > :51:27.their staff, they just have new radios that cost less than the
:51:28. > :51:35.previous radios and they are giving them to staff. If you have a housing
:51:36. > :51:39.officer removing documents from a property for instance, they could be
:51:40. > :51:44.in danger and it is helpful for the council to know where they are. If
:51:45. > :51:49.you are talking about tracking all of our stuff all the time, there is
:51:50. > :51:54.a different issue but new is not going there. Thank you.
:51:55. > :52:00.Since April this year the Government has given councils responsibility
:52:01. > :52:08.for administering council tax benefit but has reduced the amount
:52:09. > :52:12.they are giving them as cost. Tens of thousands of people have been
:52:13. > :52:17.taken to court sometimes en masse by the local authority for Miss
:52:18. > :52:23.payments. Last month some of the 5800 people
:52:24. > :52:27.served the mass summons for falling behind on council tax payments were
:52:28. > :52:34.in court. Next week the scene will be repeated in Brent. People in
:52:35. > :52:44.these and many other London boroughs are facing a minimum council tax
:52:45. > :52:49.payment. It is because local authorities have taken over from
:52:50. > :52:56.central Government but have been given less to fund it. Six councils
:52:57. > :53:00.have chosen to protect those on the benefit and make up the difference
:53:01. > :53:16.from other areas of spending. Others like Southwark and Brent have passed
:53:17. > :53:20.on the cuts to their people. Why are you taking this action? A lot of
:53:21. > :53:26.people are receiving summons from you when they cannot pay. It is not
:53:27. > :53:31.that I wanted to take action but we need to protect the income of the
:53:32. > :53:38.councils and make sure we can continue to provide the services.
:53:39. > :53:42.Some of these individuals have. -- have not engaged with us and we want
:53:43. > :53:43.them to do that so that we can provide the help and support they
:53:44. > :53:52.need. By creating the summonses, it need. By creating the summonses it
:53:53. > :53:57.gives us an opportunity to work with them and for them to engage. But it
:53:58. > :54:03.is not a pleasant thing to get a court summons for how many pounds?
:54:04. > :54:11.The week that has not been paid perhaps that people simply cannot
:54:12. > :54:18.pay. The amount of money involved, in the introduction you spoke about
:54:19. > :54:23.?5, ?10, but it is not just about that. We are trying to make sure the
:54:24. > :54:27.help is there because some of these people are being impacted by some of
:54:28. > :54:33.the most severe cuts they are facing in their lives, the housing benefit
:54:34. > :54:37.cuts and so on, so if we don't know who they are and where they are ..
:54:38. > :54:42.who they are and where they are... But that is quite a way of getting
:54:43. > :54:48.them to get in contact, receiving a summons to court. Yes but we have
:54:49. > :54:51.written to 20,000 individuals, contacted them by phone and worked
:54:52. > :54:58.with our registered social landlords as well to contact every single one.
:54:59. > :55:02.Are these people actively not paying it or they don't know they have had
:55:03. > :55:06.to start paying it because a lot of them are benefit claimants used to
:55:07. > :55:12.not paying council tax presumably. Is it just that they have not been
:55:13. > :55:15.aware of the change? They are where but they are scared of coming
:55:16. > :55:21.forward and asking for help. The last thing I want to do is to scare
:55:22. > :55:25.people and I have people sitting at the courts, waiting for them to come
:55:26. > :55:28.in so I can interact with them and we have schemes in trying to get
:55:29. > :55:34.them back into employment and support them. Is this a policy that
:55:35. > :55:38.has happened since April that you support, having to manage and
:55:39. > :55:43.administer yourself? Have you got enough money from the Government?
:55:44. > :55:48.Absolutely not, the shortfall from the Government has been ?6 million
:55:49. > :55:52.and every council has had to administer a different scheme and
:55:53. > :55:57.that means there are over 400 different schemes. The shortfall
:55:58. > :56:07.means I have had to take a hard look at how to distribute the finer
:56:08. > :56:11.amount of money we asked the -- we are receiving. Are you saying it is
:56:12. > :56:15.not an option to chase up the payment? I am doing this in the
:56:16. > :56:18.fairest manner that I can and making sure that when they go to court I
:56:19. > :56:22.sure that when they go to court, I have my staff there to help them.
:56:23. > :56:30.How do you feel about this in your capital? Many people are being
:56:31. > :56:38.summonsed over money they cannot afford. The overall level of arrears
:56:39. > :56:42.over the country is not significantly up compared to recent
:56:43. > :56:46.years. The reality is that it is difficult for local authorities to
:56:47. > :56:53.collect the council tax that is due and I welcome hearing how much they
:56:54. > :56:56.are doing to engage. But you transfer the responsibility is to
:56:57. > :57:03.them and don't give them the money to do it, which disguises a brutal
:57:04. > :57:07.cut. The support for council tax benefit is still very considerable,
:57:08. > :57:12.the reality is that we have had to take many tough decisions as this
:57:13. > :57:15.Government, including on some types of welfare payment. If we weren t
:57:16. > :57:21.prepared to take those decisions, the deficit crisis would mean higher
:57:22. > :57:26.interest rates for everyone. There was no easy way out of the situation
:57:27. > :57:28.we inherited from the last Government. The Government was
:57:29. > :57:35.spending far more than it could possibly afford, welfare reform has
:57:36. > :57:40.to play a part in that but we are continuing to support as generously
:57:41. > :57:46.as possible help with council tax. Under Labour, council tax on average
:57:47. > :57:50.doubled. We have frozen council tax which is helping people. And you
:57:51. > :57:55.will know how important it is to collect it. To be honest this is a
:57:56. > :57:59.problem that originates in Downing Street with David Cameron's decision
:58:00. > :58:05.to increase council tax for some of the poorest people living in our
:58:06. > :58:10.communities. This increase is affecting the working poor, carers,
:58:11. > :58:15.disabled people, war veterans. People are having to give more of
:58:16. > :58:18.their money thanks to the Government's decision that they put
:58:19. > :58:24.through at the same time as they implemented a tax cuts for
:58:25. > :58:29.millionaires. With the last Government you knew the problem of
:58:30. > :58:36.people not paying and you took loads of people to court, you cannot
:58:37. > :58:41.criticise this policy now. The councils have no option but to
:58:42. > :58:53.enforce the law. The law has been made by the conservative led
:58:54. > :58:58.Government and the councils are left to pick up the pieces. Council tax
:58:59. > :59:02.on average doubled under Labour and this Government is focusing on
:59:03. > :59:07.helping people, and that is why we are providing the support to help
:59:08. > :59:12.people. People are paying more but a smaller percentage of the council
:59:13. > :59:20.tax because the Government has kept it down. 45, 50% in some councils, I
:59:21. > :59:24.do not recognise the figures to Reza is reporting. Now it is time for the
:59:25. > :59:33.rest of the political news in 60 seconds.
:59:34. > :59:37.At the world Islamic Forum in London the Prime Minister announced London
:59:38. > :59:41.would become the first non-Muslim country to issue an Islamic bond. We
:59:42. > :59:45.are taking bold steps to make London one of the greatest centres for
:59:46. > :59:49.Islamic finance anywhere in the world. During this conference there
:59:50. > :59:54.will be new support for Islamic entrepreneurs. There are also plans
:59:55. > :00:00.to create a new Islamic index on the stock exchange. A council house in
:00:01. > :00:06.south-east London which have been occupied both protesters has fetched
:00:07. > :00:12.?3 million. It will build 20 new homes. Derek
:00:13. > :00:16.Osborne, the former Lib Dem Council leader of Kingston upon Thames, was
:00:17. > :00:19.jailed for two years this week for appalling child pornography at
:00:20. > :00:24.offences. Hammersmith has become one of the
:00:25. > :00:39.first councils to roll out universal credit which will replace six means
:00:40. > :00:42.tested benefits by 2017. Everyone knows the universal benefit
:00:43. > :00:48.is complicated but you will not overturn this one, will you? We
:00:49. > :00:53.don't even know if it will work yet. They have invested a lot in an IT
:00:54. > :00:58.system that many people believe will not actually work. I am not against
:00:59. > :01:02.the principle of tying benefits up together but the Government looks
:01:03. > :01:05.like it is walking into a massive fiasco with what they are doing at
:01:06. > :01:09.the moment and if this goes wrong, once again it will be the most
:01:10. > :01:17.vulnerable people in our communities that will suffer. Are you worried
:01:18. > :01:22.about this? It is a crucial reform and at the heart of it is ensuring
:01:23. > :01:26.that work always pays which is benefiting the most disadvantaged
:01:27. > :01:32.people in our community. If it can be made to work, and it is a big
:01:33. > :01:37.if. Some people are suggesting it should be put on the back burner for
:01:38. > :01:41.a while. It is very ambitious and this Government has been prepared to
:01:42. > :01:46.deal with welfare reform in a way that has been docked for 15 years.
:01:47. > :01:51.It is the end result of a simpler system which ensures that those who
:01:52. > :01:55.want to work are not financially penalised for doing that. It is a
:01:56. > :02:00.goal worth striving for and I am confident we will deliver that.
:02:01. > :02:17.Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's
:02:18. > :02:30.relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the
:02:31. > :02:33.Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka
:02:34. > :02:36.Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did
:02:37. > :02:40.earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey.
:02:41. > :02:44.Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:02:45. > :02:48.office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the
:02:49. > :02:52.Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative
:02:53. > :02:56.mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he
:02:57. > :03:03.should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey
:03:04. > :03:09.denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial
:03:10. > :03:13.dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side
:03:14. > :03:19.is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send
:03:20. > :03:22.its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened
:03:23. > :03:28.in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families
:03:29. > :03:31.out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset
:03:32. > :03:38.particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of
:03:39. > :03:42.things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own
:03:43. > :03:48.report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things -
:03:49. > :03:56.forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was
:03:57. > :04:09.being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the
:04:10. > :04:13.report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is
:04:14. > :04:16.something that the police are looking into so that is not
:04:17. > :04:28.something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We
:04:29. > :04:31.learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained
:04:32. > :04:37.to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour
:04:38. > :04:47.Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party
:04:48. > :04:50.and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are
:04:51. > :04:55.looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like
:04:56. > :04:58.the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil
:04:59. > :05:01.Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985. Ed
:05:02. > :05:06.tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take
:05:07. > :05:13.on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an
:05:14. > :05:17.electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for
:05:18. > :05:21.seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the
:05:22. > :05:27.disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk
:05:28. > :05:31.categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying
:05:32. > :05:38.to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members.
:05:39. > :05:42.In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had
:05:43. > :05:48.people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is
:05:49. > :05:53.that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from
:05:54. > :05:57.party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced
:05:58. > :06:01.this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we
:06:02. > :06:03.change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 20th
:06:04. > :06:08.Party that were set up in the 2 th century. The reform of the way in
:06:09. > :06:13.which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us
:06:14. > :06:20.in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3
:06:21. > :06:28.million working people who ensure our public services function. At
:06:29. > :06:34.Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk
:06:35. > :06:37.Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that I'd
:06:38. > :06:45.union. I do not agree with that. I'd just explained the reason. I do not
:06:46. > :06:51.think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the
:06:52. > :06:57.basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it
:06:58. > :07:02.after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to
:07:03. > :07:08.send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be
:07:09. > :07:13.secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That
:07:14. > :07:19.constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it.
:07:20. > :07:25.This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do
:07:26. > :07:31.not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an
:07:32. > :07:39.ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory
:07:40. > :07:43.suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union
:07:44. > :07:51.members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the
:07:52. > :07:57.facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made. On
:07:58. > :08:02.allegations that have been made On your point I think it is healthy the
:08:03. > :08:07.Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their
:08:08. > :08:15.rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at
:08:16. > :08:21.Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of
:08:22. > :08:27.their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to
:08:28. > :08:31.our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will
:08:32. > :08:37.find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets
:08:38. > :08:43.tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working
:08:44. > :08:48.in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port
:08:49. > :08:53.and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets
:08:54. > :08:59.overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from
:09:00. > :09:04.unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite
:09:05. > :09:08.know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears
:09:09. > :09:13.used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private
:09:14. > :09:19.sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was
:09:20. > :09:23.born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of
:09:24. > :09:30.their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they
:09:31. > :09:39.can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But
:09:40. > :09:43.there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is
:09:44. > :09:49.right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for
:09:50. > :09:54.their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their
:09:55. > :09:59.aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their
:10:00. > :10:06.workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the
:10:07. > :10:10.protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has
:10:11. > :10:18.said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback.
:10:19. > :10:23.He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the
:10:24. > :10:27.radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that
:10:28. > :10:32.was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend
:10:33. > :10:37.to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like
:10:38. > :10:45.land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing
:10:46. > :10:49.the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.4
:10:50. > :10:54.million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The
:10:55. > :11:00.business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances
:11:01. > :11:05.back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being
:11:06. > :11:10.used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater
:11:11. > :11:18.variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro
:11:19. > :11:25.enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a
:11:26. > :11:29.living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but
:11:30. > :11:35.there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business
:11:36. > :11:42.because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is
:11:43. > :11:48.good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are
:11:49. > :11:52.not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax
:11:53. > :12:01.credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know
:12:02. > :12:12.after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living
:12:13. > :12:15.wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and
:12:16. > :12:24.we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party
:12:25. > :12:38.pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a
:12:39. > :12:44.living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage.
:12:45. > :12:50.What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle
:12:51. > :12:57.as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one
:12:58. > :13:01.of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this
:13:02. > :13:05.soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working
:13:06. > :13:16.together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce.
:13:17. > :13:25.That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be
:13:26. > :13:30.here again next weekend at 12:25pm after the Remembrance Day service at
:13:31. > :13:59.the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:14:00. > :14:04.Planet Earth - it's unique. It has life.
:14:05. > :14:11.To understand why, we're going to build a planet...up there.
:14:12. > :14:14.There were the objects that were making the Earth.
:14:15. > :14:17.We're now weightless. That's how our planet started.
:14:18. > :14:20.Your arms are a little bit long. Is that as small as they go?
:14:21. > :14:25.This is like every shopping trip I've ever been on.