:00:37. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Nick Clegg says
:00:45. > :00:49.Chris Rennard must apologise. "What for?", say his friends. We'll ask
:00:50. > :00:54.senior Lib Dem minister Danny Alexander whose side he's on.
:00:55. > :00:58.What about the voters? What do they make of the Lib Dems? We hear the
:00:59. > :01:18.views of a Sunday Politics focus group. A donkey. They do other
:01:19. > :01:22.people's work. It's Penny Mordaunt MP. And we'll get the verdict on
:01:23. > :01:25.Portsmouth MP Penny Mordaunt's plunge from the highboard from who
:01:26. > :01:27.else but the Minister for Portsmouth.
:01:28. > :01:32.And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:33. > :01:35.business: and in London, Boris Johnson has pledged to recruit more
:01:36. > :01:47.volunteers. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, who'll be tweeting
:01:48. > :01:49.throughout the programme. First this morning, Nick Clegg is
:01:50. > :01:52.considering a fresh investigation into the behaviour of the party's
:01:53. > :02:01.former chief executive, Lord Rennard. Last week, a lawyer
:02:02. > :02:04.appointed by the party decided that no action could be taken against
:02:05. > :02:07.him, but that women who had accused the Lib Dem peer of inappropriate
:02:08. > :02:17.behaviour "were broadly credible". More than 100 party activists are
:02:18. > :02:20.demanding an apology. Chris Rennard say he's nothing to apologise for
:02:21. > :02:24.and the party whip must be returned to him. Helen, this is not going
:02:25. > :02:30.away. It is turning into a crisis for the Lib Dems? They have only got
:02:31. > :02:37.seven female MPs. There is no female Cabinet Minister. There is a
:02:38. > :02:41.reasonable chance that after the next election there might in no
:02:42. > :02:45.female Liberal Democrat MPs at all. A scandal like this will not
:02:46. > :02:51.encourage women into the party. Have they made a complete mess of it? You
:02:52. > :02:57.feel for Nick Clegg, because he launched an utterly rigorous
:02:58. > :03:02.process. He called in a QC. The QC looked at it and decided that the
:03:03. > :03:06.evidence did not meet the burden of proof in a criminal trial. But
:03:07. > :03:11.clearly he felt that the evidence from these women was very credible
:03:12. > :03:18.and serious. He said it was broadly credible. Clearly it was serious.
:03:19. > :03:22.Rennard is being advised by Lord Carlisle, fellow Liberal Democrat
:03:23. > :03:27.peer, who is giving purely legal advice. He is saying it has not
:03:28. > :03:34.reached that edge-mac, so do not apologise. This is a political
:03:35. > :03:39.issue, so the agony continues. Nick Clegg was hoping to keep the party
:03:40. > :03:43.whip withdrawn. But they did not launch an enquiry, the Webster
:03:44. > :03:51.enquired it was not an enquiry, it was a legal opinion. You're right,
:03:52. > :03:53.it was an internal opinion. The Lib Dems distinguished themselves from
:03:54. > :03:58.the other two parties not with policy, but with ethics. They
:03:59. > :04:01.presented themselves as being cleaner, and in possession of more
:04:02. > :04:16.Robert Jay than Labour and the Conservatives. That will be harder
:04:17. > :04:19.to do now. -- more probity. There are a Lib Dem peers that are more
:04:20. > :04:24.relaxed about taking him back and letting him pick up the party whip.
:04:25. > :04:30.That is the problem. There is a generational issue. The older Lib
:04:31. > :04:35.Dems in the House of Lords, the kind of thing, he did not do anything
:04:36. > :04:40.that wrong. The younger activists and those outside the House of
:04:41. > :04:45.Lords, they think it is a pollen. Yes, there is definitely a sort of
:04:46. > :04:49.what you are complaining about sort of thing. That is symptomatic of a
:04:50. > :04:56.cultural difference. The report last year found that they tried to manage
:04:57. > :04:59.the allegations. They did not do what any company would do if there
:05:00. > :05:06.was an allegation of sexual harassment. If there had not in the
:05:07. > :05:10.by-election in Eastleigh, this story may not have got the attention it
:05:11. > :05:14.did. Channel four news are the one that really drove this. Without
:05:15. > :05:19.their reporting, this might not have come out. It is not going to go
:05:20. > :05:29.away, because the issue of whether he gets the party whip back will
:05:30. > :05:32.come week. -- will come up this week.
:05:33. > :05:35.So it's not been a great week for the Liberal Democrats and none of
:05:36. > :05:38.this will help public perceptions of a party already struggling in the
:05:39. > :05:41.polls. In a moment, I'll be talking to the second most senior Liberal
:05:42. > :05:44.Democrat in the land, Danny Alexander. First, Adam Fleming went
:05:45. > :05:47.to Glasgow to find out what voters there made of the party.
:05:48. > :05:49.Let's put the Lib Dems under the microscope in Glasgow. We have
:05:50. > :05:55.recruited some Glaswegians who have voted for them, and some who have
:05:56. > :05:58.not. Hello, John. Let's get started. I will be watching them through the
:05:59. > :06:01.one-way mirror, along with the former Liberal Democrat MP John
:06:02. > :06:04.Barrett. Let's get to the heart of the matter straightaway. If the Lib
:06:05. > :06:08.Dems were a biscuit, what would they be? Tunnock's Teacake. Hard on the
:06:09. > :06:15.outside but soft in the middle. They give in. There is no strength of
:06:16. > :06:23.character there. They just give in to whoever. Ouch. Rich Tea. A bit
:06:24. > :06:31.bland and boring. Melts and crumbles under any sort of heat and pressure.
:06:32. > :06:34.Morrison's own brand of biscuit, not top of the range like Marks
:06:35. > :06:44.Spencer or Sainsbury's or Waitrose. A custard cream, sandwiched between
:06:45. > :06:47.David Cameron and the Tories. I think they were concerned that they
:06:48. > :06:50.had one exterior, but something else was really inside. They did not find
:06:51. > :07:00.it too definitive, too clear, too concise, too tasty, too appealing.
:07:01. > :07:05.Which means? It is a worry. If that is their gut reaction, literally,
:07:06. > :07:09.let's find out what is behind it. The context of them being stuck
:07:10. > :07:15.between a rock and a hard place, for them as a party, I feel slightly
:07:16. > :07:19.sorry for them. I think people who voted for them will think they are
:07:20. > :07:23.victims as well, being sold down the river by going to the coalition. I
:07:24. > :07:29.think the ones, particularly student fees, that was an important one to a
:07:30. > :07:34.lot of people. People felt cheated. I agree. Just going back on that, so
:07:35. > :07:43.publicly and openly, it makes you think, well, what do they stand for?
:07:44. > :07:46.It is trust. Harsh. But our group is feeling quite upbeat about the state
:07:47. > :07:53.of the economy. What have the Lib Dems contributed to that? I am not
:07:54. > :07:59.quite sure. It is George Osborne, a Conservative, who is the Chancellor,
:08:00. > :08:03.so it is mostly down to him. The Liberal Democrats are mostly on
:08:04. > :08:07.their coat tails, if you know what I mean. Have the Lib Dems done
:08:08. > :08:09.anything, anyone? I think the Liberal Democrats were responsible
:08:10. > :08:14.for increasing the tax allowance, ?10,000 for next year. I think they
:08:15. > :08:22.have played a major role in that. Yes. I am glad somebody noticed
:08:23. > :08:25.that. We will have helped everyone who is receiving a salary, and it is
:08:26. > :08:40.interesting that nobody has mentioned that. Now, let's talk
:08:41. > :08:44.about personalities. Everyone knows him, but what about say, this guy?
:08:45. > :08:47.Alexander. Danny, they got it straightaway. I actually quite like
:08:48. > :08:51.him. I think he talks very clearly and it is easy to understand what he
:08:52. > :08:58.says. Fellow redhead Charles Kennedy is popular as well. He is very
:08:59. > :09:04.charismatic and it is through him that I voted Liberal the last few
:09:05. > :09:08.times. But who is this? I recognise him but I cannot tell you his name.
:09:09. > :09:11.That is the party's leader in Scotland, Willie Rennie, and the
:09:12. > :09:14.party's role in the upcoming referendum on independence draws a
:09:15. > :09:21.blank as well. It does not feel like they have featured, it is SNP and
:09:22. > :09:36.Labour and Conservative. They are last in a four horse race. We have
:09:37. > :09:39.been talking about the biggest issue in Scottish politics, independence
:09:40. > :09:43.and the referendum and the Lib Dems are nowhere. They are not mentioned
:09:44. > :09:46.and they seem to think it is all about Labour and the SNP. The Lib
:09:47. > :09:49.Dems are part of the Better Together campaign and we are being drowned
:09:50. > :09:54.out among that. Looking to the future, what messages do voters have
:09:55. > :10:01.for the Lib Dems? Get a backbone. Do not go back on your policies or your
:10:02. > :10:08.word. Be strong and decisive. If you will pardon the expression, man up.
:10:09. > :10:15.DIY, do it yourself. Do not award bankers and other people for
:10:16. > :10:19.failure. Stand up. Be your own person, party. If that focus group
:10:20. > :10:25.represented the whole country, what would the result for the Lib Dems be
:10:26. > :10:30.at 2015 in the election? If they get the message across between now and
:10:31. > :10:33.then, the result could be OK. If they do not get the message across,
:10:34. > :10:40.the result could be disaster. Maybe they would do a lot better on their
:10:41. > :10:43.own. I do not think you are seeing the true Lib Dems because they are
:10:44. > :10:47.in the coalition. They maybe deserve another chance. Crucially for the
:10:48. > :10:51.Lib Dems, that means there is some hope, but there is also plenty of
:10:52. > :11:00.anger, some disappoint, and a bit of bafflement as well.
:11:01. > :11:04.And watching that with me, senior Liberal Democrat and Chief Secretary
:11:05. > :11:08.to the Treasury Danny Alexander. Welcome to the programme. One of the
:11:09. > :11:12.things that comes through from the focus group is that if there is any
:11:13. > :11:18.credit around for the economic recovery, it is the Tories that are
:11:19. > :11:23.getting it, and you are not? What can you do about that? The first
:11:24. > :11:27.thing to say is that the economy would not be recovering if it was
:11:28. > :11:32.not for the Liberal Democrats. If it was not for our decision right
:11:33. > :11:36.beginning in 2010 to form a strong, stable coalition government that to
:11:37. > :11:40.deal with the problems, we would still be in the mess that Labour
:11:41. > :11:45.left us with. Why are you not getting the credit? That was one
:11:46. > :11:52.focus group. It was interesting to hear opinions. We have to work very
:11:53. > :11:57.hard to get across the message that the economy would not be recovering
:11:58. > :12:00.without the Liberal Democrats. People would not be seeing the
:12:01. > :12:05.largest income tax cuts for a generation without the Liberal
:12:06. > :12:08.Democrats. The ?10,000 threshold that one of the people referred to
:12:09. > :12:15.is coming into peoples pay packets this year. Lots of people recognise
:12:16. > :12:22.that. There was the one person in the focus groups. This is your
:12:23. > :12:26.measure of success, raising the people at which people pay income
:12:27. > :12:31.tax. But most of the voters do not even give you credit for that. The
:12:32. > :12:35.role that we haven't British politics as a party, is that we are
:12:36. > :12:40.the only party that can be trusted to deliver a fair society and a
:12:41. > :12:45.strong economy. People know they cannot trust the Labour Party. We
:12:46. > :12:53.saw it again from Ed Miliband this morning. You cannot trust the Labour
:12:54. > :12:57.Party with the nation's finances. It may well be your policy, the income
:12:58. > :13:03.tax threshold, but it is the Tories that are getting the credit? I do
:13:04. > :13:06.not think that is true. I have spent lots of time meeting photos and lots
:13:07. > :13:10.of people recognise that if it was not for the Liberal Democrats,
:13:11. > :13:16.people would not be seeing those tax cuts. We are helping disadvantaged
:13:17. > :13:20.children in schools. It is right that we have to work very hard
:13:21. > :13:24.between now and polling day to do several things, to make sure that we
:13:25. > :13:29.secure the recovery, there can be no complacency. The economic recovery
:13:30. > :13:33.is in its early stages and we need to make sure it is sustainable. We
:13:34. > :13:37.need to make sure the benefits of the recovery are shared out people
:13:38. > :13:46.who have made sacrifices, people on low pay, people who have seen their
:13:47. > :13:49.savings are eroded. The Tories have now hijacked another Lib Dem
:13:50. > :13:53.policy, another big hike in the minimum wage. You spoke about the
:13:54. > :13:59.need to make sure that people on low pay benefit from the recovery, a big
:14:00. > :14:02.hike in the minimum wage. Did the Chancellor consulting on this? We
:14:03. > :14:10.have been talking about it for some time. Vince Cable asked the low pay
:14:11. > :14:12.commission for advice on this. Why did Vince Cable not make this
:14:13. > :14:18.announcement, why was it the Chancellor? Let me say a few other
:14:19. > :14:22.things about this. If we are going to secure the recovery, this year we
:14:23. > :14:27.have to make sure that businesses start investing. We have got to get
:14:28. > :14:31.Roddick typically rising. An increase in the minimum wage is
:14:32. > :14:35.something that needs to follow that. We will not do it unless the low pay
:14:36. > :14:40.commission adviser as it is important for the economy at this
:14:41. > :14:44.stage. Did you know the Chancellor was coming out with that statement?
:14:45. > :14:51.I did not know he was going to say something on that particular day. We
:14:52. > :14:55.have worked together on it in the tragedy to see what the economic
:14:56. > :14:58.impact would be, and to emphasise that it is the commission, which has
:14:59. > :15:06.credibility with business, trade unions and government. It must not
:15:07. > :15:10.be a politically motivated increase. So you did not know, and Vince
:15:11. > :15:19.Cable, and it is properly a matter for him as the Business Secretary,
:15:20. > :15:23.he did not make the announcement? I don't think that's right. I don't
:15:24. > :15:29.clear every word I say with him, I don't expect him to do the same to
:15:30. > :15:38.me. The Lib Dems have told us before it was the Treasury that was
:15:39. > :15:42.blocking this from happening. We were going to ask the low pay
:15:43. > :15:50.commission to advise us on bringing the minimum wage back up. During the
:15:51. > :15:55.financial crisis, wages have been lower-than-expected but it's also
:15:56. > :16:01.right, we shouldn't act in a hasty way, we should listen to what the
:16:02. > :16:05.commission has to say, and if they don't recommend an increase we have
:16:06. > :16:13.to make sure economic conditions are there to get it right. Not only are
:16:14. > :16:15.the Tories getting credit for that, our Scottish voters group showed
:16:16. > :16:20.that people have still not forgiven you for ratting on tuition fees, and
:16:21. > :16:26.that was a broken promise that didn't even apply to the people in
:16:27. > :16:31.Scotland, where there are no tuition fees! Nick Clegg has been very clear
:16:32. > :16:40.about the issues that that brought up. If you look at our manifesto,
:16:41. > :16:44.the University of London said we delivered about 70% of our policies
:16:45. > :16:52.in the manifesto. They haven't forgiven you for the big one. The
:16:53. > :17:00.big promise we made was to cut income tax the millions of people.
:17:01. > :17:05.That is a policy which is putting money back into the pockets of
:17:06. > :17:09.working people. It is only possible because we are delivering our
:17:10. > :17:16.economic plan in government with the Conservatives. Now we have to make
:17:17. > :17:21.sure, through tax cuts, through looking at issues like the minimum
:17:22. > :17:26.wage and other groups who have made sacrifices, make sure that benefit
:17:27. > :17:30.is shared. I am not going to agree to anything which undermines the
:17:31. > :17:35.confidence of businesses to invest in this country over the next 12
:17:36. > :17:42.months. Speaking of Scotland, the Lib Dems, why do they now look
:17:43. > :17:48.largely irrelevant in the battle for the union? Not one of our focus
:17:49. > :17:53.group even knew who your Scottish leader is. I don't accept that. I
:17:54. > :18:03.have spent a lot of time with Alistair Carmichael and others, we
:18:04. > :18:08.are all making the case every day. If Scotland votes to be independent,
:18:09. > :18:14.it will be in a much worse financial position within the European Union.
:18:15. > :18:20.Scotland will be contributing to the rebate for the UK, rather than
:18:21. > :18:24.benefiting from it. It has been a disaster for your Scottish based to
:18:25. > :18:28.have joined a coalition with the Tories. It may have been the right
:18:29. > :18:32.thing to do, you say it is in the national interest, but Scottish Lib
:18:33. > :18:38.Dems did not expect to be in a coalition with the Tories. By the
:18:39. > :18:43.way I think it is also in the national interests and the interests
:18:44. > :18:49.of the people for Scotland, cutting the income tax of Scottish people,
:18:50. > :18:56.stabilising the economy. We are now seeing good growth. But you are in
:18:57. > :19:03.meltdown. I don't accept that. We will see what happens in the 2015
:19:04. > :19:07.election. I think we have a record to be proud of, we have played a
:19:08. > :19:11.very important role in clearing up the mess Labour made in the
:19:12. > :19:14.economy, of making sure the Coalition government tackles the
:19:15. > :19:21.problems in this country, but does so in a fair way. I think the
:19:22. > :19:26.biggest risks to the economic recovery over the next few years is
:19:27. > :19:30.either a majority Labour government or a majority Conservative
:19:31. > :19:34.government. Labour you cannot trust with the finances, the Tories want
:19:35. > :19:38.us to play chicken with the European Union which would truly be a
:19:39. > :19:43.disaster to investment in this country. You announced this week
:19:44. > :19:48.that if Scotland votes to leave the UK, it would be the British Treasury
:19:49. > :19:53.that would guarantee all British government debt. There wouldn't be a
:19:54. > :19:57.negotiation, but the backstop would be that even if they didn't take
:19:58. > :20:02.anything, we would still guarantee the debt. What was happening in the
:20:03. > :20:07.markets that you needed to calm them down? We were getting quite a few
:20:08. > :20:13.questions from the people we rely on to lend us money. We are still
:20:14. > :20:17.borrowing billions of pounds every month as a country. Those people
:20:18. > :20:31.were asking us to clarify this point. It was becoming a serious
:20:32. > :20:34.concern? It wasn't reflected in the guilty yields. I follow the bond
:20:35. > :20:41.market quite carefully and there was no sign this was having an impact.
:20:42. > :20:45.That's why the right thing to do was to clarify this point now, rather
:20:46. > :20:51.than the concerns being reflected in what you imply, and I think it is a
:20:52. > :20:55.bad idea for Scotland to vote for separation but it would be wrong to
:20:56. > :20:59.allow for the fact that question is on the table to cost taxpayers in
:21:00. > :21:02.the UK more money and higher interest payments simply because
:21:03. > :21:08.Alex Salmond has put that question on the table. That's why I think it
:21:09. > :21:12.was the right thing to do. There were a lot of calls from the focus
:21:13. > :21:17.group that you need to be different. Nick Clegg has embarked on this
:21:18. > :21:22.aggressive differentiation. Where you can be different is the
:21:23. > :21:28.bankers' bonuses. What conceivable reason could there be for anybody at
:21:29. > :21:35.RBS getting a bonus twice in their salary? We have not been approached
:21:36. > :21:43.by RBS in terms of those votes. I would be sceptical about an approach
:21:44. > :21:51.from RBS if it can. It shows what we have presided over as a party in
:21:52. > :21:55.government, massive reductions... I'm not asking you about that, I'm
:21:56. > :22:04.asking what conceivable case there can be for a bank that has failed to
:22:05. > :22:08.sell its branches even though ordered by the Government, still has
:22:09. > :22:14.38 billion of toxic debt on its balance sheet, I ask again what
:22:15. > :22:21.possible reason should they get twice salary as a bonus? Your right
:22:22. > :22:29.to say RBS is in a very different position to other banks, it is
:22:30. > :22:34.mostly owned by the state. RBS hasn't put a case to us but they
:22:35. > :22:37.might do so I would like to look at what they would say, but I would be
:22:38. > :22:42.sceptical as to whether a case could be made given some of the things you
:22:43. > :22:48.said, but also the fact that it is a bank that has benefited from the
:22:49. > :22:54.taxpayer standing behind it. Now RBS has to focus more on domestic
:22:55. > :22:59.retail. Let me turn to Chris Rennard, ten women have accused him
:23:00. > :23:05.of sexual harassment. He denies every case. Who do you believe? We
:23:06. > :23:16.have been through a process on this as a party. A report has been issued
:23:17. > :23:19.on this. I agree with Alistair Webster on this, he has made clear
:23:20. > :23:24.that while he cannot prove what happened to a criminal standard,
:23:25. > :23:28.that there is clear there has been considerable distress and harm
:23:29. > :23:34.caused. I agree with him about that and that's why it is necessary for
:23:35. > :23:42.Chris Rennard to apologise as he has been asked to do. If he refuses to
:23:43. > :23:48.apologise, should he be denied the Lib Dem whip in the Lords? I don't
:23:49. > :23:51.think he should be readmitted to the Liberal Democrat group in the House
:23:52. > :23:58.of Lords until such time as the disciplinary process, including the
:23:59. > :24:02.apology, has been done properly. We are very democratic party, it is a
:24:03. > :24:07.matter for our group in the House of Lords in due course to make that
:24:08. > :24:12.judgement. Party HQ has had a lot of complaints from party members about
:24:13. > :24:15.the fact no apology has been made. The appropriate committee would need
:24:16. > :24:21.to look at that and decide what action needs to be taken because
:24:22. > :24:28.these are very serious matters. We as a party have learned a lot, taken
:24:29. > :24:34.a long, hard look at ourselves, to change the way we work. The apology
:24:35. > :24:38.does need to be made. We are told that Lord Newby, the Chief Whip of
:24:39. > :24:42.the Liberal Democrats in the House of Lords, we are told he has shaken
:24:43. > :24:50.hands with Chris Rennard and welcomed him back. That decision has
:24:51. > :24:56.not been taken yet. I think Lord Newby would share my view on this.
:24:57. > :25:04.Have you shaken his hand and welcomed him back? No, I haven't.
:25:05. > :25:10.Does Nick Clegg have the power to deny Chris Rennard as the whip? I am
:25:11. > :25:14.making it clear that a lack of apology is totally unacceptable, and
:25:15. > :25:22.therefore we have to take steps if that is not forthcoming. His view
:25:23. > :25:28.and my view is that Lord Rennard should not be readmitted to the
:25:29. > :25:33.House of Lords if that is not forthcoming. In our party, our group
:25:34. > :25:41.in the House of Lords has two in the end take a view for itself. And they
:25:42. > :25:47.can override Nick Clegg's view? I hope that when they look at this...
:25:48. > :25:59.Do they have the power to override Nick Clegg? They have the power to
:26:00. > :26:03.decide who should be the whip. The failure to follow up the simple
:26:04. > :26:09.human demand for an apology for the stress that has been caused is
:26:10. > :26:27.totally unacceptable. Your party is totally down lighted on this --
:26:28. > :26:33.divided on this. Here is what Lord Carlile had to say. A total
:26:34. > :26:37.nonsense, hyperbole. It is a ridiculous statement to make and we
:26:38. > :26:42.have seen Alistair Webster, the QC who did this investigation, comment
:26:43. > :26:47.on that himself this morning. He has followed the process the party laid
:26:48. > :26:50.down in its rules, which sets the standard for the investigation which
:26:51. > :26:55.asked him to report on the evidence he has found, but he also has a duty
:26:56. > :27:02.of confidentiality and responsibility under the data
:27:03. > :27:15.protection legislation as well. Here is what your activists have said in
:27:16. > :27:20.a letter to the Guardian. This shows there are strong opinions, but why
:27:21. > :27:25.should Chris Rennard apologise for something he denies, unproven
:27:26. > :27:30.allegations, on an unpublished report that Chris Rennard has not
:27:31. > :27:34.been allowed to read? He should apologise because he wants to
:27:35. > :27:38.continue to be a member of the Liberal Democrats and this is the
:27:39. > :27:44.recommendation that has been made by the internal disciplinary process.
:27:45. > :27:50.Webster himself said this was not an inquiry, it is an opinion. If Chris
:27:51. > :27:57.Rennard apologises on this basis, he opens himself to civil lawsuits. He
:27:58. > :28:01.says he is not going to do it. As a Liberal Democrat you join the party
:28:02. > :28:07.because you believe in its values, you abide by its rules. One of those
:28:08. > :28:15.rules is that we have a process if there are disciplinary allegations.
:28:16. > :28:18.The committee of the party supported Webster's recommendations, one of
:28:19. > :28:24.which was that an apology should be made because he clearly found
:28:25. > :28:28.distress had been caused. Will there now be a proper inquiry? I don't
:28:29. > :28:41.think any of these legalistic things, I don't think he can have it
:28:42. > :28:47.both ways. Will there be a proper inquiry? Alistair Webster did do a
:28:48. > :28:51.proper inquiry. There was a proper report into what happened at the
:28:52. > :28:56.time and we have learned a lot from this is a party, and the most
:28:57. > :29:02.important thing now is that Chris Rennard apologises. You have made
:29:03. > :29:12.that clear. What kind of biscuits are you? Are you a Tunnocks? Soft on
:29:13. > :29:19.the inside? It is good of you to be advertising a Scottish product. We
:29:20. > :29:24.just wondered if you weren't tough enough to take on Ed Balls. Thank
:29:25. > :29:41.you. More than tough enough is the answer to that.
:29:42. > :29:45.Generally governments are a bit rubbish at IT projects. They tend to
:29:46. > :29:48.run way over budget and never quite achieve what they promised. So the
:29:49. > :29:51.revelations of a former spy that the US and British security agencies
:29:52. > :29:53.were in fact astonishingly efficient at eavesdropping on the digital
:29:54. > :29:57.communications of their citizens came as a bit shock. But just how
:29:58. > :29:58.worried should we be about their clandestine activity?
:29:59. > :30:00.In his latest revelation, former US by Edward Snowden has claimed that
:30:01. > :30:06.America's National Security Agency operates a secret database called
:30:07. > :30:10.Dishfire. It collect 200 million mobile phone messages every day from
:30:11. > :30:16.around the world, accessed, he says, why British and American spies. This
:30:17. > :30:21.week, the president has outlined a series of surveillance reforms,
:30:22. > :30:27.including Ning to the storage of the phone call information of millions
:30:28. > :30:37.of Americans, and no Morse -- and no more spying on allies like Angela
:30:38. > :30:39.Merkel. Critics say that the British intelligence agencies have refused
:30:40. > :30:44.to acknowledge even the need for a debate on the issue. The Foreign
:30:45. > :30:52.Secretary William six says that we have a very strong system of checks
:30:53. > :30:55.and balances. -- William Hague. ?? new line Nick Pickles is director of
:30:56. > :30:58.the pressure group Big Brother Watch. The Labour MP Hazel Blears in
:30:59. > :31:08.on Parliament's Intelligence And Security Committee. They're here to
:31:09. > :31:13.go head to head. Welcome to both of you. Hazel
:31:14. > :31:17.Blears, let me come to you first. President Obama has made some major
:31:18. > :31:23.changes as a result of what we have learned that the NSA in America was
:31:24. > :31:27.up to. But British politicians seem to, they are not up for this kind of
:31:28. > :31:31.thing, they are hoping it will go away? It is not going away and that
:31:32. > :31:36.is why my committee, the Intelligence And Security Committee,
:31:37. > :31:40.has decided to launch an enquiry into whether the legal framework is
:31:41. > :31:48.up-to-date. We have had massive technological change. We have had a
:31:49. > :31:54.call for evidence. Some of the sessions will be open so that people
:31:55. > :31:57.can see what the evidence is. Obviously some of the information
:31:58. > :32:01.will have to be classified, but on the committee, there is a real
:32:02. > :32:05.commitment to say, there is a big debate going on, let's see if the
:32:06. > :32:09.system is as Rob asked as we can make it. The big question is
:32:10. > :32:15.oversight and the call for evidence that the committee has issued is not
:32:16. > :32:18.mention oversight. It is ten years since the Foreign Affairs Committee
:32:19. > :32:24.said that the committee should be a fully elected committee chosen by
:32:25. > :32:31.Parliament and not the Prime Minister. It has changed, actually.
:32:32. > :32:41.The Prime Minister nominates people and the house gets to him -- gets to
:32:42. > :32:48.approve. In America, they have a separation of power, the president
:32:49. > :32:52.does not nominate Kennedy. Basically, Hazel Blears, you're an
:32:53. > :32:56.establishment lackey? I do not think so. Most of the people on the
:32:57. > :33:02.committee have some experience of intelligence and these issues. In
:33:03. > :33:07.this country, we have robust scrutiny, compared to some of her
:33:08. > :33:11.European neighbours. We have Parliamentary scrutiny, the
:33:12. > :33:16.interception commissioners, and ministers have to sign the warrants.
:33:17. > :33:20.But there may be room for improvement, which is why we are
:33:21. > :33:25.having the enquiry. Do not forget, President Obama said that the agency
:33:26. > :33:29.should not have the ability to collect data, he wanted to put more
:33:30. > :33:34.safeguards in. That is essential for the work of the agencies. If you
:33:35. > :33:39.cannot see the data, you cannot take the connections and see the
:33:40. > :33:44.patterns. Some people never talk about the threat from terrorism, it
:33:45. > :33:49.is all about travesty. There are several thousand people in this
:33:50. > :33:52.country, as we are talking, who are actively planning to do a country
:33:53. > :33:58.harm. When this debate started in the US, the NSA head stood up and
:33:59. > :34:05.said there are 54 plots that have been detected by this capability
:34:06. > :34:11.that has detected and that in bulk. Now the head of the NSA has admitted
:34:12. > :34:17.that the number is actually zero. It is not the intelligence committee in
:34:18. > :34:22.the US that did the work to reduce that number, it was a Judiciary
:34:23. > :34:24.Committee. The fact that we have two different bodies doing this in this
:34:25. > :34:31.country, it means that you do not get the correct view. How can people
:34:32. > :34:37.have confidence in a body when if you go around Europe, for example,
:34:38. > :34:42.or the world, we are not at the end not requiring judges to not sign
:34:43. > :34:46.warrants? I do not accept that the committee failed on that range of
:34:47. > :34:52.issues. You look at the reports on 7/7. Two reports by the committee
:34:53. > :34:57.get to the heart of it. If you look at that terrorist attack on our
:34:58. > :35:01.country, people will say, why did you not have them on the radar? The
:35:02. > :35:07.agencies are between a rock and a hard race. They have got to be
:35:08. > :35:16.subject to oversight, but beanie capability. Did you know about
:35:17. > :35:20.Dishfire? We go to GCHQ on a regular basis and I know about the
:35:21. > :35:27.capabilities that we have got. Some of the names of these programmes, we
:35:28. > :35:32.would not necessarily know. But did you know that GCHQ had the
:35:33. > :35:37.capability to use Dishfire, or to get Dishfire material from the NSA?
:35:38. > :35:42.I knew and my committee knew that we had the capability to collect data,
:35:43. > :35:46.and these days, people do not write letters, they do not use landline
:35:47. > :35:51.telephones, they use the Internet and text in, so it is important that
:35:52. > :35:58.the agencies are able to keep up with that take the logical change.
:35:59. > :36:01.What should happen? The proper legal framework should include, if a
:36:02. > :36:06.company is cooperating, as Google and Facebook do, it should be
:36:07. > :36:13.illegal for GCHQ to hack into them. In the US, Lundberg estimate that
:36:14. > :36:17.this has driven a 35mm and hole in the US economy because people do not
:36:18. > :36:22.trust but there are systems are secure. We need to know that GCHQ
:36:23. > :36:26.are not trying to use a different door into the system, whether by
:36:27. > :36:33.hacking or foreign intelligence. We need judicial oversight with judges
:36:34. > :36:38.and not politicians signing off. The final 30 seconds to you. As a result
:36:39. > :36:42.of the changes in the Justice and Security act, the committee is
:36:43. > :36:46.accountable to Parliament and not the Prime Minister. Those changes
:36:47. > :36:52.are taking place, and I am up for the debate if we need more change or
:36:53. > :36:56.not. But I want British agencies to have more power to protect the
:36:57. > :37:00.people in this country. Thank you to both of you. It's coming up to
:37:01. > :37:03.11:40. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20
:37:04. > :37:21.minutes, we'll get the verdict of the Minister for Portsmouth on that
:37:22. > :37:24.dive from the Portsmouth MP. Ouch! Plus, the week ahead with our
:37:25. > :37:33.political panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics across the UK.
:37:34. > :37:41.Hello and welcome to the London part of Sunday Politics. With me this
:37:42. > :37:44.week, Transport Minister Stephen Hammond, AKA Conservative MP for
:37:45. > :37:47.Wimbledon, and Karen Buck, Labour MP for Westminster North and now close
:37:48. > :37:51.aide to Labour leader Ed Miliband. Welcome to you both. A little later
:37:52. > :37:55.on, Boris Johnson has pledged to get 100,000 more Londoners to volunteer.
:37:56. > :37:59.But now some are questioning the kind of opportunities on offer.
:38:00. > :38:04.But first to the never-ending debate about the country's aviation future.
:38:05. > :38:14.And another spat involving the mayor. Boris Johnson has accused Sir
:38:15. > :38:16.Howard Davies, who is heading the commission deciding on where extra
:38:17. > :38:19.runways should go in future, of "cold- shouldering" him over his
:38:20. > :38:25.views and his support for an airport in the Thames Estuary? He's being
:38:26. > :38:31.dissed. What do you say about this? You need to remember, Boris Johnson
:38:32. > :38:35.is always a keen advocate for his views and you will find all sorts of
:38:36. > :38:40.ways of putting them out there. It was clear that Sir Howard said there
:38:41. > :38:44.were three options. There was a fourth option he was keeping alive,
:38:45. > :38:48.the Thames Estuary option. He said there would be a consultation from
:38:49. > :38:53.February and that is what he has doing. The consultation has not even
:38:54. > :38:58.started so I think it is Boris making sure that people hear what he
:38:59. > :39:04.wants to say. He's saying, through his adviser, that he is not been
:39:05. > :39:11.given the kind of respect he should. His views should have greater
:39:12. > :39:16.respect, he is the person with the strategic overview of London. Sir
:39:17. > :39:19.Howard has said he will do a three-month consultation and he will
:39:20. > :39:23.listen to those views. He has kept the Thames Estuary option alive. It
:39:24. > :39:29.is going to be examined properly and thoroughly. He will report and speak
:39:30. > :39:35.about it in June. I am pretty sure that Boris will get respect from Sir
:39:36. > :39:39.Howard. When you say keeping alive the Thames Estuary option, do you
:39:40. > :39:46.really believe that? I think it is keeping alive, because Sir Howard
:39:47. > :39:49.said that he would resent three options. He said there has not in
:39:50. > :39:56.another examination of the Thames Estuary option. It is pretty
:39:57. > :40:00.unlikely it will get in there now? If it was pretty unlikely, it would
:40:01. > :40:06.not be there in December. I think he is giving it a chance to make sure
:40:07. > :40:10.it is properly examined. The fact he is doing that, people close to Boris
:40:11. > :40:22.Johnson seem to think that this is a con. It is much more likely that
:40:23. > :40:27.Boris is making sure that his views are known and heard. I think Sir
:40:28. > :40:33.Howard is giving the proper examination of the option, Boris and
:40:34. > :40:36.all of his advisers, I am sure, will have a chance to put their case in
:40:37. > :40:40.exhaustive detail, with the strategic overview. Karen Buck, you
:40:41. > :40:46.cannot disagree with that, presumably? If they made as saying
:40:47. > :40:51.that his views are not being taken into account, that is a pretty
:40:52. > :40:56.serious thing? It is. Listening to the way that this was presented, it
:40:57. > :41:01.sounded vitriolic, it did not seem like the mayor was putting his views
:41:02. > :41:07.on the table. The truth of the matter is, and I think that Boris
:41:08. > :41:12.has rumbled this, the Thames Estuary is only on life support. It was only
:41:13. > :41:16.put into the next stage of the review to probably avoid a row.
:41:17. > :41:24.Reading between the lines of Howard Davies, it was clear. There is a
:41:25. > :41:29.tendency for people to push things down the road and hope it will go
:41:30. > :41:33.away. I am suggesting that the row will be kept in play until after the
:41:34. > :41:39.next election? I would hesitate to say anything quite as cynical. On
:41:40. > :41:42.the wider point of aviation, this is quite good news for you guys,
:41:43. > :41:47.because you cannot decide what you support? We said that we excepted
:41:48. > :41:53.the government's decision not to go ahead with the third runway. There
:41:54. > :41:58.needs to be a much more consensual approach to this. These are enormous
:41:59. > :42:01.projects. If the Mayor of London is falling out with the government on
:42:02. > :42:08.this, over what should an independent and expert review, this
:42:09. > :42:11.is bad news for London. I would love to talk to you more about this, but
:42:12. > :42:14.let's come down to the ground. Now, a fortnight later than usual,
:42:15. > :42:17.fares on tubes, trains and buses are going up. The delay caused by a
:42:18. > :42:20.curious breakdown in communication between government and City Hall.
:42:21. > :42:23.Overall fares are going up by just under the rate of inflation, though
:42:24. > :42:26.some individual fares over inflation. And just as passengers
:42:27. > :42:34.start paying more, there are strikes on the horizon. Max O'Brien has
:42:35. > :42:37.more. Across the capital, transport fares
:42:38. > :42:44.have risen. The mayor has called the fares increases a freeze. Average
:42:45. > :42:50.fare rises are matching inflation. But this is always a source of
:42:51. > :42:54.elliptical controversy. The Labour Party, Ed Miliband as the leader,
:42:55. > :43:00.has gone on about energy prices and the cost of living. This will put
:43:01. > :43:04.greater pressure on government and opposition politicians to see what
:43:05. > :43:10.they would do. The rises have sparked a row between the mayor and
:43:11. > :43:13.George Osborne. Between -- before Christmas, Boris Johnson announced
:43:14. > :43:18.that the fares would rise by 3%, to match inflation, but the cost of
:43:19. > :43:23.travel cards would go up by 1% more than inflation. Later, the
:43:24. > :43:31.Chancellor said that fares would only go by inflation. The Mayor of
:43:32. > :43:38.London then had to scrap his increase. The government decided
:43:39. > :43:48.that they would mimic transport for London, and keep fares on the
:43:49. > :43:52.network at the rate of inflation. I do saying that rail passengers from
:43:53. > :43:56.Cornwall to Corby have Boris Johnson to thank? I am.
:43:57. > :44:00.Despite the triumphant claim of the Mayor of London, critics argue that
:44:01. > :44:06.has lower than expected rise will leave a hole in transport for
:44:07. > :44:12.London's budget. If fares are to be held at lower levels than were
:44:13. > :44:17.previously expected. That will drive down costs. To do that, the mayor is
:44:18. > :44:22.proposing to close many ticket offices. This week, the RMT
:44:23. > :44:27.announced their intention to strike over ticket office closures. This
:44:28. > :44:33.means that the debate will rumble on long after today's price rises. We
:44:34. > :44:36.will come to Boris Johnson as the saviour of the nation in or read,
:44:37. > :44:43.but Karen Buck, this has got to be welcomed. You have got proof of
:44:44. > :44:52.this, he has said that London cannot pay fears of more than inflation
:44:53. > :44:58.increases this time? -- the fares. He was forced into that. The overall
:44:59. > :45:03.package was always going to be an inflation on the increase. He
:45:04. > :45:07.recognises the cost of living pressures, he says. I am sure that
:45:08. > :45:14.he is beginning to recognise the cost of living pressures after five
:45:15. > :45:18.years of over inflation rises. Commuters have the most expensive
:45:19. > :45:23.tickets in the world. Of course it is well commit is not as high as it
:45:24. > :45:25.was first proposed, but it is still significantly higher than the
:45:26. > :45:31.average income rise that Londoners are enjoying. Where are you and
:45:32. > :45:37.labour at the moment? There was some confusion? Does Labour is still
:45:38. > :45:42.stand by and believe in a kind of 7% reduction in transport fares next
:45:43. > :45:49.year? We wanted to see a price freeze this year. That has changed
:45:50. > :45:56.from Ken Livingstone's view of a reduction? We were saying that we
:45:57. > :46:03.wanted to see a price freeze. We welcome anything that makes a
:46:04. > :46:07.contribution towards Londoners and their budgets. It still leaves
:46:08. > :46:10.Londoners with up budget shortfall they were not expecting. We are
:46:11. > :46:17.seeing a breakdown in the relationship between London and the
:46:18. > :46:23.government. Stephen Hammond, you must have known about this. Were you
:46:24. > :46:28.all said to have rail fares going much higher, but luckily, Boris
:46:29. > :46:36.Johnson came along and said, people need to pay lower fares? George
:46:37. > :46:41.Osborne decided to follow suit? There may be lots of stories around,
:46:42. > :46:44.and lots of myths around, and I will not tell you the ends and outs of
:46:45. > :46:48.the government was Mac discussions, but all I can say is that if you
:46:49. > :46:52.think it was a last-minute reaction to that, you need to think about
:46:53. > :46:59.what has happened over the last two of three years. We have moved from
:47:00. > :47:04.the formula that the Labour Party left us. Even the year before, we
:47:05. > :47:09.have went from RPI two plus one. This year, it was inflation. It is
:47:10. > :47:15.the first time in a decade that has happened. You knew that Boris
:47:16. > :47:29.Johnson was going to do it in London. That sounds to me like an
:47:30. > :47:35.interesting tale. You are not denying it. Look at the consistent
:47:36. > :47:40.record this government has done. There are lots of great things Boris
:47:41. > :47:57.does annoy the great supporter but who's to -- he does not dictate
:47:58. > :48:00.policy. Just clarify this. Will you give him that money like you
:48:01. > :48:07.subsidise the reduction in the rail fare everywhere else in the
:48:08. > :48:14.country? Boris has already announced his plans, he had already taken that
:48:15. > :48:18.into account. He will be using increased revenue opportunities and
:48:19. > :48:22.he has made it clear... It sounds quite foolish of him not to have
:48:23. > :48:27.waited to see what the Chancellor was going to do first before he
:48:28. > :48:37.decided on his package. He wanted to make a pledge to Londoners. It is
:48:38. > :48:40.affordable in the TfL budget, and I'm sure Boris will be wanting to
:48:41. > :48:48.bear down on the cost to make sure that London and TfL provide people
:48:49. > :48:54.with a service which is cost efficient and value for money. It
:48:55. > :48:58.has been suggested there are terrible communication problems
:48:59. > :49:03.because of the rivalry between George Osborne and Boris Johnson.
:49:04. > :49:13.Why are they not singing on the same page? I saw them yesterday and they
:49:14. > :49:22.seemed pretty happy, chatting away to each other. Let's move on. One
:49:23. > :49:25.thing Boris Johnson pledged to seize upon was getting 100,000 more
:49:26. > :49:32.Londoners volunteering by the time he heads off in 2016, so how is it
:49:33. > :49:36.going? We have been finding out. There has been some patchy
:49:37. > :49:40.recruitment and some are questioning the kind of opportunities that are
:49:41. > :49:53.now available. One of the most incredible successes of London last
:49:54. > :49:58.year was the volunteering. The Mayor of London has been trying to get
:49:59. > :50:06.that carry on through the name of Team London, that legacy was in
:50:07. > :50:15.action this week at the school in London. Something to give to give to
:50:16. > :50:22.your community, to make it a better place. I talk to young people about
:50:23. > :50:27.how they can use their gifts and their passions to help the
:50:28. > :50:29.community. City Hall are keen to emphasise that volunteering is not
:50:30. > :50:34.just good for the people at the receiving end but also for the
:50:35. > :50:38.people doing it, particularly if you are unemployed or you have just left
:50:39. > :50:47.school. Volunteering work can really help. This is the Team London
:50:48. > :50:49.website, giving people the chance to search for volunteering
:50:50. > :50:53.opportunities. According to some people, some of the adverts on this
:50:54. > :50:57.website crossed a line and they are not just giving people volunteering
:50:58. > :51:02.opportunities they can learn from but they are actually trying to get
:51:03. > :51:09.people to do jobs for free when they should be being paid. The Sun says
:51:10. > :51:16.it is a minimum of three days a week, undergraduate level... One
:51:17. > :51:21.campaign group says that City Hall needs to keep on top of what they
:51:22. > :51:28.have on their website. There is a lot of ambiguity. If you are work
:51:29. > :51:32.you should have rights and responsibilities, there will be
:51:33. > :51:37.written, verbal, or implied contract to say you have to come in and do
:51:38. > :51:43.certain tasks, whereas volunteering is of your own accord, come and go
:51:44. > :51:49.as you please, and help out on a cause. Labour on the London assembly
:51:50. > :51:55.say they are concerned. I think we are seeing that by the back door
:51:56. > :51:59.they are almost substituting paid employment for volunteering roles
:52:00. > :52:04.and that cannot be right. I will be writing to the Government department
:52:05. > :52:08.that oversees this to make sure they investigate these matters. Questions
:52:09. > :52:26.have also been asked about opportunities advertised through
:52:27. > :52:30.Team London relating to the Scientology. New issued this
:52:31. > :52:46.statement: Separately the group were also using
:52:47. > :52:50.the Team London website. City Hall removed them from the website
:52:51. > :52:55.because they failed to offer enough opportunities after registering.
:52:56. > :53:02.Another group linked to the Church of Scientology continue to advertise
:53:03. > :53:07.on the website. With the mayor committed to finding tens of
:53:08. > :53:09.thousands of extra volunteering opportunities by 2016, some ask if
:53:10. > :53:16.enough is being done to that what they advertise.
:53:17. > :53:25.The Mayor's volunteering adviser is here, what is the update on the
:53:26. > :53:31.figure? Where are you on this? We are doing very well, and it is great
:53:32. > :53:36.to see the Team London schools programme in action. We were really
:53:37. > :53:41.pleased with the uptake following the Olympics. The Olympics gave an
:53:42. > :53:45.amazing insight into the value of volunteering and we have kept that
:53:46. > :53:55.momentum going. In terms of the 100,000, we have had since 2011 over
:53:56. > :53:59.one million volunteering hours and that is an astonishing figure. In
:54:00. > :54:07.terms of numbers we have had over 100,000 people use the website and
:54:08. > :54:15.to date we are around 25,000 who are actively volunteering through team
:54:16. > :54:18.London. Volunteering opportunities are available through a lot of other
:54:19. > :54:25.organisations so you don't have to go through Team London but it is the
:54:26. > :54:29.go to place. It makes it quick and easy. A survey recently showed that
:54:30. > :54:35.people were not sure how to volunteer, well if you are in
:54:36. > :54:39.London, you go to Team London. What about some of the opportunities
:54:40. > :54:45.appearing on the website, we heard on the film, it sounds like some
:54:46. > :54:53.people are trying to get employment on the cheap. If you look at the
:54:54. > :54:58.guidelines from the minimum wage act, it is absolutely clear the
:54:59. > :55:03.recognition that is given to volunteers and the huge benefits
:55:04. > :55:07.they bring to hundreds of thousands of charities. Is your focus on
:55:08. > :55:13.people who are doing something once a week regularly or whatever, or are
:55:14. > :55:19.you wanting people to take jobs on the cheap with a view to getting
:55:20. > :55:25.future employment? We are not wanting people to take jobs on the
:55:26. > :55:29.cheap, we want people to have experience of work. Some people
:55:30. > :55:35.volunteer Reading to young children, or in a sports programme, but there
:55:36. > :55:40.are also a lot of people in the 16-25 age group who cannot get work
:55:41. > :55:45.experience, who have no experience of the world of work, and we want
:55:46. > :55:51.them to be able to volunteer may be an hour on a Saturday afternoon or
:55:52. > :55:56.maybe in the evening, there are all sorts of ways you can volunteer.
:55:57. > :56:01.There is an important statistic which is that 73% of employers would
:56:02. > :56:07.rather employ somebody who has had volunteering experience because it
:56:08. > :56:16.gives them the skills to turn up on time. What's not to like?
:56:17. > :56:20.Volunteering was one of the great triumphs of the Olympics in London
:56:21. > :56:24.and I applaud any initiative to get people volunteering but I had a look
:56:25. > :56:28.at the website and it did worry me that some of the vacancies were
:56:29. > :56:33.being advertised as fixed days. People were being asked to commit to
:56:34. > :56:40.working on a Tuesday and Wednesday with the expectation of turning up
:56:41. > :56:46.at a certain time and it does seem to overstepped the line. It does
:56:47. > :56:50.discriminate particularly against low-income people who are signing
:56:51. > :56:56.on, people from ethnic communities, people who cannot afford to work for
:56:57. > :57:01.free. They are not working for free, we are giving people the
:57:02. > :57:06.opportunity to have an experience of work. We have continued the visitor
:57:07. > :57:11.welcome programme and the events support programme with volunteers
:57:12. > :57:15.and we have a specific scheme which we run through an excellent
:57:16. > :57:20.organisation which provides us with young, unemployed people, they
:57:21. > :57:25.funnel them through into the Team London projects to help them find
:57:26. > :57:31.experience of volunteering. That is critical. To deny those people the
:57:32. > :57:42.opportunity is to possibly deny them work at a later stage. Is this a
:57:43. > :57:50.version of the Big Society? It is. People are crucial to cohesion,
:57:51. > :57:57.bonding... The big society is alive and kicking! I have to confess, I
:57:58. > :58:04.read the Team London page, and it makes it clear that interns will be
:58:05. > :58:15.paid. Will you hit your target? I hope we will. We are working with
:58:16. > :58:24.350 schools in London already. Now it is time for the rest of the
:58:25. > :58:29.political news in 60 seconds. The new chairman of HS2 has pledged to
:58:30. > :58:35.deliver the high speed rail project more cheaply. He also stressed his
:58:36. > :58:41.priorities were to build the project more quickly and get the benefits to
:58:42. > :58:44.the north earlier. Boris Johnson has thrown the Southbank Centre's
:58:45. > :58:49.redevelopment plans into disarray by declaring that are part of the
:58:50. > :58:52.complex used by skateboarders should be left unchanged. The surprise
:58:53. > :58:57.intervention could threaten the whole scheme as the centre planned
:58:58. > :59:00.to use beyond across as retail units to generate income. The mayor has
:59:01. > :59:05.said less affordable housing will be built on the Olympic Games site to
:59:06. > :59:20.allow for more economic activity. He says fewer homes will be built
:59:21. > :59:22.overall and are smaller than promised percentage of those would
:59:23. > :59:24.be affordable. The High Court has stopped the Warren comprehensive
:59:25. > :59:34.school from being converted into an academy. Mr Justice Collins granted
:59:35. > :59:37.an injunction. Realism now, more economic
:59:38. > :59:46.development, less housing has got to be the way? We need more affordable
:59:47. > :59:50.housing. In this half of the year, just 1400 affordable homes will be
:59:51. > :59:55.built by the mayor. Affordable housing schemes are collapsing
:59:56. > :00:04.around London, it is a crisis. A broken promise by the looks of it as
:00:05. > :00:11.well. He will not reach the target. 6800 on the Olympic site, and then
:00:12. > :00:15.2800 on the athletes village, of that 1400 will be affordable so
:00:16. > :00:23.there is 50% there. Let's wait and see. Fantastic culture, 100,000
:00:24. > :00:34.houses being built by the mayor. Andrew, back to you. Welcome back.
:00:35. > :00:38.Now she made quite a splash last night. I am talking, of course, of
:00:39. > :00:43.the Portsmouth North MP, Penny Mordaunt. If you missed her first
:00:44. > :00:44.appearance in ITV's celebrity diving competition show, here she is in
:00:45. > :01:16.action. APPLAUSE
:01:17. > :01:19.Here is a lady who is more used to campaigning for votes than diving
:01:20. > :01:24.for them. She created far too much rotation. Hard work has gone into
:01:25. > :01:35.the start of this dive to try and control it. That looked painful. Now
:01:36. > :01:38.the Portsmouth North MP got voted off the show last night but what
:01:39. > :01:41.about the verdict that really matters? The newly appointed
:01:42. > :01:47.Minister for Portsmouth, Michael Fallon, is here. Welcome to the
:01:48. > :01:52.programme. I would give her ten out of ten for bravery. I was cheering
:01:53. > :01:56.her on. She was doing this for a local charity, raising money for the
:01:57. > :02:03.local swimming pool. She was a good sport. As Minister for Portsmouth,
:02:04. > :02:06.can we expect to see you in your swimming trunks for the next
:02:07. > :02:12.series? I do not think I have the spare time at the moment. But there
:02:13. > :02:16.is a big challenge in Portsmouth. Penny Mordaunt and the other local
:02:17. > :02:22.MPs there have been remorseless in asking ministers to help the city.
:02:23. > :02:32.They are losing jobs. There is a goblin Trinity -- there is a big
:02:33. > :02:35.opportunity to create jobs. Should she have been on a celebrity
:02:36. > :02:41.television show of their role these problems in Portsmouth? This was in
:02:42. > :02:45.her spare time and it is raising money for a good cause. I do not
:02:46. > :02:51.think we should eat two sniffy about it. Did I not see you dressed up on
:02:52. > :02:58.Thursday night, doing your programme? This is my job. This is
:02:59. > :03:09.not her job. It was in her spare time, she was raising money for a
:03:10. > :03:14.local charity. Your Minister for Portsmouth. Are we going to have a
:03:15. > :03:17.minister for every town? Are we going to have a minister for
:03:18. > :03:22.Chipping Sodbury? Chipping Sodbury does not have the issues that
:03:23. > :03:29.Portsmouth have -- that Portsmouth has. There are jobs at risk in
:03:30. > :03:35.shipbuilding. The government puts in a lot of money through the regional
:03:36. > :03:39.growth fund, some ?20 million. There are range of government funding
:03:40. > :03:45.streams going into Portsmouth. My job is to make sure that is properly
:03:46. > :03:48.coordinated. I need to make sure that Portsmouth seizes this
:03:49. > :03:53.opportunity to develop a more broadly -based marine and maritime
:03:54. > :03:58.economy. To make sure a marginal seat stays Tory at the next
:03:59. > :04:08.election? There are marginal seats everywhere. There is a Liberal
:04:09. > :04:10.Democrat marginal the -- seat. Vince Cable and I have been working
:04:11. > :04:16.together for the issues that Portsmouth is facing. We work on
:04:17. > :04:20.these things together. But I have the very specific job of making sure
:04:21. > :04:26.that the effort on the ground is coordinated. So Vince Cable is not
:04:27. > :04:31.the Minister for Portsmouth? I have been there recently, so has Vince
:04:32. > :04:37.Cable. So there are two ministers for Portsmouth? Just a minute. I am
:04:38. > :04:41.making sure that the effort is properly coordinated on the ground.
:04:42. > :04:45.I am determined to turn this challenging time into a proper
:04:46. > :04:52.opportunity. Should we be to Paul faced about this? No, good honour.
:04:53. > :04:56.How much money would be have to pay you to get into a swimming costume?
:04:57. > :05:03.Bid is not enough money in the BBC covers. Good on her. It took seven
:05:04. > :05:09.years to get a leg there's an MP. She should be a minister. It is a
:05:10. > :05:14.pity she has the spare time to do this. She is very talented. It is
:05:15. > :05:18.interesting about the Minister for Portsmouth, up in the north-east
:05:19. > :05:25.they must be sad that they do not have any marginal seats. Nick Brown
:05:26. > :05:30.as David Cameron last July, can we have a minister for the north-east,
:05:31. > :05:34.and the Prime Minister is said no? Does this mean that Portsmouth is
:05:35. > :05:40.more deprived economic late than the north-east? No, it means it is a
:05:41. > :05:43.marginal seat. The Labour Leader Ed Miliband was on
:05:44. > :05:46.the Andrew Marr programme this morning and he outlined plans under
:05:47. > :05:49.a Labour government for an annual competition audit. Here is what he
:05:50. > :05:51.had to say. The next Labour government will have an annual
:05:52. > :05:55.competition at it, not just done by the regulatory body. Alongside them
:05:56. > :06:00.will be the citizens advice bureau, setting the agenda for the future,
:06:01. > :06:05.setting the agenda for how we can ensure that competition will benefit
:06:06. > :06:09.consumers and businesses. I want to see Labour going into the next
:06:10. > :06:13.election as the party of competition, the party of the
:06:14. > :06:17.consumer, the party of hard-pressed working families who are struggling.
:06:18. > :06:21.They need somebody to deal with those issues and that is what the
:06:22. > :06:25.next Labour government will do. I thought you were meant to be the
:06:26. > :06:31.party of competition? We are the party of competition. This is the
:06:32. > :06:35.party that has given us some of these problems. We have an annual
:06:36. > :06:41.competition review in the energy sector. We have already tackling
:06:42. > :06:45.banking. What is interesting about his proposal is it is the smaller
:06:46. > :06:50.ones who are less sure about this, the smaller banks who think that
:06:51. > :06:54.this could inhibit the growth. It is the smaller energy companies who
:06:55. > :06:57.think that through interfering with the market, through his price
:06:58. > :07:03.freeze, that he will hinder competition. We spoke about this
:07:04. > :07:09.before. It is a clever pitch that Ed Miliband is making. Under the guise
:07:10. > :07:13.of token markets and claiming to be the party of competition, he is
:07:14. > :07:20.creating the reason for state intervention? -- broken markets.
:07:21. > :07:26.Exactly, and it is state intervention that does not work.
:07:27. > :07:31.There is a proud tradition in government of smashing open cartels.
:07:32. > :07:36.Teddy Roosevelt did it nearly a century ago. The problem is, in
:07:37. > :07:41.those situations it was clear and obvious that the consumers were
:07:42. > :07:46.suffering. I am not sure it is entirely obvious in this country. In
:07:47. > :07:49.the banking sector we have free current accounts in the high street.
:07:50. > :07:55.That is not true in all Western countries. In the energy sector, our
:07:56. > :08:00.bills are not outlandish they high. It is when we take taxes into
:08:01. > :08:05.account the become unaffordable. He has to make the case that consumers
:08:06. > :08:10.are suffering as a result of these monopolies. Ed Miliband would say it
:08:11. > :08:16.is not about state intervention, but about making markets work. The piece
:08:17. > :08:20.that was written by his intellectual Duryea about the significance and
:08:21. > :08:24.the importance of Teddy Roosevelt. He was the Republican president in
:08:25. > :08:32.the yearly -- in the early years of the last century. He wanted markets
:08:33. > :08:38.to work. There is an interesting debate on Twitter this morning. Tim
:08:39. > :08:45.Montgomerie is saying, why are we, the Conservative Party, not seen as
:08:46. > :08:52.the party of Teddy Roosevelt? We are seen as the party of business.
:08:53. > :08:56.There are smaller energy companies competing against the big six. In
:08:57. > :09:01.banking, we have seen smaller companies coming. It was the Labour
:09:02. > :09:05.government that created the big six energy companies. I think Teddy
:09:06. > :09:11.Roosevelt also invaded Cuba and the Philippines. That could give us a
:09:12. > :09:18.clue as to Ed Miliband's foreign policy. Nigel Farage has promised to
:09:19. > :09:22.purge the party of its more extreme candidates ahead of the European
:09:23. > :09:28.Council elections in May. But that may not be going so well. Listen to
:09:29. > :09:36.this. The latest in this process is these homosexual laws. And Thomas I
:09:37. > :09:41.shall manage. I believe that the Prime Minister, who was warned that
:09:42. > :09:47.disasters would follow a three went in this direction, he has persisted,
:09:48. > :09:55.and I believe that this is largely a repercussion from this godlessness
:09:56. > :09:59.that he has persisted in. The instructions I have got from now on,
:10:00. > :10:05.or is just not to answer in, and not to give interviews such as this one.
:10:06. > :10:10.So you are ignoring them? I am not ignoring them. But you are talking
:10:11. > :10:17.to me? You are the last one I shall be speaking to. I think it is too
:10:18. > :10:19.late. Who would have thought it? It is not global warming that is
:10:20. > :10:26.causing the floods, it is gay marriage? That explains it. Last
:10:27. > :10:31.year David Cameron offered a coded retraction of his statement that
:10:32. > :10:37.UKIP is full of fruit cakes. I think he will be tempted to retract the
:10:38. > :10:40.retraction. It is a warning to lots of Tories who think that their best
:10:41. > :10:48.interests are served by flirting with lace -- with UKIP. Nigel Farage
:10:49. > :10:53.is a very plausible guy, but several layers down, there are people who
:10:54. > :10:57.are very different. Nigel Farage is saying that he's going to clear the
:10:58. > :11:02.party out of what Mr Cameron called the fruitcakes. If he is true to his
:11:03. > :11:08.word, Mr Sylvester's days in the party should they numbered. If Nigel
:11:09. > :11:20.Farage falls under the bus, what is left of place -- what is left of
:11:21. > :11:23.UKIP? People say that they like UKIP because unlike other politicians,
:11:24. > :11:28.they speak their mind. But as it turns into more of a proper
:11:29. > :11:33.organisation, people speaking their mind will be less acceptable. The
:11:34. > :11:39.European elections are always a protest vote. People are not happy
:11:40. > :11:43.with the elite. You will get people saying utterly ridiculous things
:11:44. > :11:48.like that man in Henley-on-Thames. But this is a chance to vote against
:11:49. > :11:57.the entire political establishment. I am not sure that comments like
:11:58. > :12:00.that will make much of a difference. There are lots of arguments about
:12:01. > :12:06.climate change. That was certainly a new one! They are the only big
:12:07. > :12:12.protest party at the moment. Protest party is obviously hoovered up lots
:12:13. > :12:15.of votes. We have got to be clear in European message that we are the
:12:16. > :12:21.only party that can reform Europe and give people a proper choice, the
:12:22. > :12:25.first referendum in over 40 years. Mr Sylvester used to be a
:12:26. > :12:30.conservative. You're probably glad to see the back of him? David
:12:31. > :12:34.Cameron is right, there are probably a few fruitcakes around there. I
:12:35. > :12:41.think that mainstream conservatives will understand that this is the
:12:42. > :12:45.only party that can secure European reform and give people the choice
:12:46. > :12:50.they have been arguing for. Whatever happens in the European elections,
:12:51. > :12:53.it is a protest vote. We have almost run out of time. We will see this
:12:54. > :13:00.week of Chris Rennard gets the party whip act. There is a battle brewing
:13:01. > :13:05.between Danny Alexander and the common side of the Liberal Democrats
:13:06. > :13:09.and the House of Lords. If he turns up on Monday and asks to be let in,
:13:10. > :13:19.I they going to make a big scene at the gate of Parliament? And the
:13:20. > :13:23.issue will stay in the papers? Yes, they are clearly nervous that Lord
:13:24. > :13:31.Rennard might be tempted to mount a legal bid. That is all for today.
:13:32. > :13:35.Thanks to all my guests. The Daily Politics is back on Monday at midday
:13:36. > :13:37.on BBC Two. And I will be here again next week. Remember if it is Sunday,
:13:38. > :13:40.it is the Sunday Politics.