:00:39. > :00:47.morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water,
:00:48. > :00:51.a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take
:00:52. > :00:57.control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry?
:00:58. > :01:00.Embarrassment for the Government is the Immigration Minister resigns
:01:01. > :01:05.after he discovered he was employing a cleaner with no right to work here
:01:06. > :01:10.for seven years. Ed Miliband promised an end to what he called
:01:11. > :01:17.the machine politics of union fixes in the Labour Party, but will his
:01:18. > :01:21.reforms we can the union's role The Shadow Business Secretary Chuka
:01:22. > :01:25.Umunna joins us for the interview. In London after two days of
:01:26. > :01:35.disruption in the capital the Mayor Boris Johnson will be talking to ask
:01:36. > :01:41.about strife on the Underground All of that and after a week of very
:01:42. > :01:46.public coalition spats can David Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the
:01:47. > :01:52.coalition show on the road? Two senior party figures will go head to
:01:53. > :01:56.head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt and Iain Martin who would not
:01:57. > :02:01.know they Somerset Levels from their Norfolk Broads, but that will not
:02:02. > :02:06.stop them tweeting their thoughts. We start with the strange Case of
:02:07. > :02:10.the Immigration Minister, his cleaner and some lost documents
:02:11. > :02:15.Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his resignation, telling the media he
:02:16. > :02:19.had discovered the cleaner who worked for him for seven years did
:02:20. > :02:24.not have the right to work in the UK. The Communities Secretary Eric
:02:25. > :02:29.Pickles said he had done the honourable thing. I was sad to see
:02:30. > :02:33.him go, he was a strong minister. Had he been a member of the public
:02:34. > :02:39.he would not have done anything wrong, but he set himself a very
:02:40. > :02:43.high standard and he felt that standard and honourably stood down.
:02:44. > :02:49.This would seem like a good resignation, maybe unlike the
:02:50. > :02:56.Baroness Scotland one years ago on a similar issue, but have we been told
:02:57. > :03:00.the full story? We wait to see that. Labour have picked up saying he is
:03:01. > :03:05.an honourable man, that the reason why he resigned is these very owners
:03:06. > :03:10.checks that landlords and employers will have to perform on employees
:03:11. > :03:16.over their documentation. The most interesting line is that, we do not
:03:17. > :03:21.require them to be experts or spot anything other than an obvious
:03:22. > :03:27.forgery. The suggestion that there is the document he was presented
:03:28. > :03:33.with originality, which he lost was on home office paper and was perhaps
:03:34. > :03:38.not entirely accurate. That is the embarrassment. He is the minister
:03:39. > :03:41.putting through a bill that will demand tougher checks on people and
:03:42. > :03:47.he himself did not do enough checks to discover she was illegal. There
:03:48. > :03:52.is an odd bit where he involves the home office later to check her out
:03:53. > :03:57.as well. He writes a resignation letter and he has to hold himself to
:03:58. > :04:02.pay higher standard. He has done the David Laws approach to this, resign
:04:03. > :04:10.quickly and he can come back. David Cameron wants him to return swiftly
:04:11. > :04:17.to the frontbenchers. He is a state school educated lad. He is the kind
:04:18. > :04:24.of Tory that the Tories are in short supply of. He is a rising star. I
:04:25. > :04:29.would caution on this idea that it is customary that whenever anyone
:04:30. > :04:33.resigns, it is always thought they will come straight back into office.
:04:34. > :04:38.If only the outside world worked like that. It is not, in a company
:04:39. > :04:46.if the HR person resigns, he is such a great chap he will be back next
:04:47. > :04:50.week. There is a silver lining for David Cameron is he has been able to
:04:51. > :04:57.move Harriet Bond up as he moves everyone up. But nobody will see her
:04:58. > :05:03.in the whips office because she is not allowed to appear on television.
:05:04. > :05:11.And if you three want to resign Do not hate you are coming back next
:05:12. > :05:16.week. But we will do it with honour. It has been a hellish week for
:05:17. > :05:21.residents of coastal areas with more storms bringing more flooding and
:05:22. > :05:24.after Prince Charles visited the Somerset Levels on Tuesday the
:05:25. > :05:30.Government has been keen to show it has got a grip on the situation at
:05:31. > :05:36.last. For last weekend's Sunday Politics I
:05:37. > :05:41.made the watery journey to the village of Muchelney, cut off for a
:05:42. > :05:45.whole month. Now everyone has been dropping in. First it was Prince
:05:46. > :06:00.Charles on a park bench pulled by a tractor. He waded into the row about
:06:01. > :06:06.how the floods have been handled. Next it was the chair of the
:06:07. > :06:11.Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who faced angry residents. Sought the
:06:12. > :06:18.river is out. That is precisely what we are going to do. Where he faced,
:06:19. > :06:22.a resident, he did not need that many. David Cameron went for a look
:06:23. > :06:28.as well and gave the region what it wanted, more pumps, more money and
:06:29. > :06:33.in the long-term the return of dredging. There are lessons to
:06:34. > :06:38.learn. The pause in bridging that took place from the late 1990s was
:06:39. > :06:43.wrong and we need to get dredging again. When the water levels come
:06:44. > :06:49.down and it is safe to dredge, we will dredging to make sure these
:06:50. > :06:53.rivers and stitches can carry a better capacity. The Environment
:06:54. > :06:58.Secretary Owen Paterson has not been seen again because he is recovering
:06:59. > :07:05.from emergency eye surgery. In the meantime the floodwaters rose ever
:07:06. > :07:10.higher. Some residents were told to evacuate. In Devon the railway was
:07:11. > :07:15.washed away by the waves leaving a big gap in the network. Look at the
:07:16. > :07:21.weather this weekend. If you can believe it, the storms keep rolling
:07:22. > :07:26.in. What is the long-term solution for flood prone areas of the
:07:27. > :07:30.country? I am joined from Oxford by the editor of The Ecologist
:07:31. > :07:37.magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me
:07:38. > :07:45.come to you first. What do you now want the Government to do? I want it
:07:46. > :07:48.to make sure it does exactly as it promises and delivers what every
:07:49. > :07:53.farmer and landowner around here knows should have been done for
:07:54. > :07:58.years. First, to solve the problems we have right now, but to make sure
:07:59. > :08:04.there is money in the bank for us to carry on doing the maintenance that
:08:05. > :08:08.is necessary. Was it a mistake not to do the dredging? When the waters
:08:09. > :08:15.start to subside does dredging become a key part of this? Yes, of
:08:16. > :08:21.course. It is something the farmers have been asking for four years
:08:22. > :08:26.When you wander along a footpath by a river and you see trees growing
:08:27. > :08:32.and there is 60% of the capacity only because there is silt, it needs
:08:33. > :08:39.to have a pretty dramatic action right now and then we need to make
:08:40. > :08:44.sure the maintenance is ongoing Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to
:08:45. > :08:52.stop the dredging? If the dredging had happened, the land would not be
:08:53. > :08:58.covered in water for so long? Clearly it is necessary to do at
:08:59. > :09:02.least some dredging on these rivers and in particular because these
:09:03. > :09:05.rivers are well above ground level. They are carrying water that comes
:09:06. > :09:11.down off the hills well above the level of the flood plain on the
:09:12. > :09:18.Somerset Levels. They naturally tend to silt up. But the key thing is
:09:19. > :09:25.that is only a small part of the overall solution. What we need is a
:09:26. > :09:29.catchment wide approach to improve infiltration upstream and you also
:09:30. > :09:36.need to manage the flood plain on the levels and upstream so as to
:09:37. > :09:40.have active flood plain that can store water. This idea it is just
:09:41. > :09:46.about dredging is erroneous. Dredging is a part of it, but it is
:09:47. > :09:53.a catchment wide solution. Dredging is only a small part of the solution
:09:54. > :10:00.he says. Yes, of course it is. But look here. With the farmer is
:10:01. > :10:05.locally, the landowners, they know this land will carry water for a few
:10:06. > :10:09.weeks of the year, that is not a problem. But this water has to be
:10:10. > :10:15.taken away and there is a very good system of drainage and it works
:10:16. > :10:19.perfectly well. In my area there are serious problems because the
:10:20. > :10:26.dredging has not taken place. There are lunatic regulations around were
:10:27. > :10:30.when they do do some of dredging, the Environment Agency is asked to
:10:31. > :10:36.take it away because it is considered toxic waste. This is
:10:37. > :10:39.barmy. We need to take the stuff out of the rivers and build the banks up
:10:40. > :10:45.so we create protection in the future. We have to make sure the
:10:46. > :10:53.dredging is done but make sure the drainage works well and we have
:10:54. > :10:57.pumps in places and we have floodgates put onto the rivers. We
:10:58. > :11:05.need to make sure repairs are done more quickly. All right, let me go
:11:06. > :11:09.back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not the case a lot of people on your
:11:10. > :11:13.side of the argument would like to see lands like the Somerset Levels
:11:14. > :11:19.return to natural habitat? Looe I would like a degree of that, but
:11:20. > :11:29.that does not mean the whole place needs to turn into wilderness so it
:11:30. > :11:35.will remain agricultural landscape. Everybody, all the interested
:11:36. > :11:40.parties who signed up to a document called vision 2034 the Somerset
:11:41. > :11:44.Levels envisages most of the area of the Somerset Levels being turned
:11:45. > :11:51.over to extensive grassland and that is what it is best suited for. Let
:11:52. > :11:59.me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you signed up to this where you will end
:12:00. > :12:05.up with extensive grassland? I have seen it, but grass does not grow if
:12:06. > :12:10.water is sitting on this land for weeks and weeks. What you have to
:12:11. > :12:14.remember is a lot of the levels are managed very carefully and they are
:12:15. > :12:20.conservation land and that means cattle are allowed to go out at
:12:21. > :12:24.certain times of the year and in certain numbers. It is well managed.
:12:25. > :12:34.Do you accept it should return to grassland? Grassland, fine, but you
:12:35. > :12:39.cannot call land grassland in the flipping water is on it so long that
:12:40. > :12:45.nothing grows. It is no good at doing that. You have got to make
:12:46. > :12:50.sure it is managed properly. Drainage has been taking place on
:12:51. > :12:55.this land for centuries. It is the case the system is there, but it
:12:56. > :13:01.needs to be maintained properly and we have to have fewer ridiculous
:13:02. > :13:04.regulations that stop action. Last year the flooding minister agreed
:13:05. > :13:08.dredging should take place and everything stopped. Now we have got
:13:09. > :13:14.the promise from the Prime Minister and I thank Prince Charles for that.
:13:15. > :13:18.Is it not time to let the local people run their land rather than
:13:19. > :13:23.being told what to do by the Environment Agency, central
:13:24. > :13:29.Government and the European Union? The internal drainage boards have
:13:30. > :13:35.considerable power in all of this. They wanted to dredge and they were
:13:36. > :13:40.not allowed to. The farmers want to dredge that is what is going to
:13:41. > :13:44.happen, but they have signed up to a comprehensive vision of catchment
:13:45. > :13:49.management and of environmental improvement turning the Somerset
:13:50. > :13:55.Levels into a world-class haven for wildlife. It is not much good if
:13:56. > :13:59.your house is underwater. The farmers themselves, the RSPB, the
:14:00. > :14:05.drainage boards, they have all signed up to this. The real question
:14:06. > :14:13.now is how do we implement that vision? You give the money to the
:14:14. > :14:18.drainage boards. At the moment they pay 27% of their money and have been
:14:19. > :14:22.doing so for years and years and this is farmers' money and it has
:14:23. > :14:26.been going to the drainage boards and they pay the Environment Agency
:14:27. > :14:31.who are meant to be dredging and that has not happened. We have to
:14:32. > :14:36.leave it there. We have run out of time.
:14:37. > :14:41.Last week saw the Labour Party adopts an historic change with its
:14:42. > :14:45.relationship with the unions. Changes to the rules that propelled
:14:46. > :14:50.Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by
:14:51. > :14:55.the electoral college system which gives unions, party members and MPs
:14:56. > :15:00.one third of votes each. This would be changed into a simpler one
:15:01. > :15:05.member, one vote system. A union member would have to become an
:15:06. > :15:11.affiliated member of the party. They would have to opt in and pay ?3 a
:15:12. > :15:17.year. But the unions would have 50% of the vote at the conference and
:15:18. > :15:23.around one third of the seats on the National executive committee. The
:15:24. > :15:27.proposals are a financial gamble as well. It is estimated the party
:15:28. > :15:30.could face a drop in funding of up to ?5 million a year when the
:15:31. > :15:36.changes are fully implemented in five years. The leader of the Unite
:15:37. > :15:41.trade union has welcomed the report saying it is music to his ears. The
:15:42. > :15:48.package will be voted on at a special one of conference in March.
:15:49. > :15:56.And the Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna joins me now for the
:15:57. > :16:00.Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In what way will the unions have less
:16:01. > :16:06.power and influence in the Labour Party? This is about ensuring
:16:07. > :16:10.individual trade union members have a direct relationship with the
:16:11. > :16:15.Labour Party. At the moment the monies that come to us are decided
:16:16. > :16:20.at a top level, the general secretaries determine this, whether
:16:21. > :16:25.the individual members want us to be in receipt of those monies or not so
:16:26. > :16:30.we are going to change that so that affiliation fees follow the consent
:16:31. > :16:34.of individual members. Secondly we want to make sure the individual
:16:35. > :16:44.trade union members, people who teach our children, power via -
:16:45. > :16:51.fantastic British businesses, we want them to make an active choice,
:16:52. > :16:55.and we are also recognising that in this day and age not everybody wants
:16:56. > :17:06.to become a member of a political party. We haven't got much time The
:17:07. > :17:16.unions still have 50% of the vote at Labour conferences, there will be
:17:17. > :17:30.the single most important vote, more member -- union members will vote
:17:31. > :17:40.than nonunion members, their power has not diminished at all, has it?
:17:41. > :17:43.In relation to the other parts of the group of people who will be
:17:44. > :17:49.voting in a future leadership contest, we are seeking to move
:17:50. > :17:54.towards more of a one member, one vote process. At the moment we have
:17:55. > :18:03.the absurd situation where I, as a member of Parliament, my vote will
:18:04. > :18:10.count for 1000. MPs are losing. . They still have a lot of power. I am
:18:11. > :18:15.a member of the GMB union and the Unite union, also a member of the
:18:16. > :18:20.Fabians as well so I get free votes on top of my vote as a member of
:18:21. > :18:25.Parliament. We are moving to a system where I will have one vote
:18:26. > :18:29.and that is an important part of this. You asked how many people
:18:30. > :18:31.would be casting their votes. The last time around, under the
:18:32. > :18:37.old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:38. > :18:47.envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid
:18:48. > :18:52.turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if
:18:53. > :19:05.your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings,
:19:06. > :19:06.your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful
:19:07. > :19:17.than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to
:19:18. > :19:19.than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get
:19:20. > :19:29.to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give
:19:30. > :19:37.them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us,
:19:38. > :19:40.as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't
:19:41. > :19:45.have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their
:19:46. > :19:49.general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision,
:19:50. > :19:55.and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide
:19:56. > :20:00.that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto
:20:01. > :20:07.will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow
:20:08. > :20:11.people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do
:20:12. > :20:15.this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate
:20:16. > :20:20.for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have
:20:21. > :20:25.financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC
:20:26. > :20:31.and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the
:20:32. > :20:36.determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of
:20:37. > :20:45.income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is
:20:46. > :20:58.advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not
:20:59. > :21:08.-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the
:21:09. > :21:16.FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing
:21:17. > :21:19.Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed
:21:20. > :21:31.an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief
:21:32. > :21:40.executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one
:21:41. > :21:46.Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently
:21:47. > :21:50.chairman of the chief executive With the greatest respect, you are
:21:51. > :21:56.talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our
:21:57. > :22:02.country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100
:22:03. > :22:08.businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across
:22:09. > :22:23.the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the
:22:24. > :22:29.FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones,
:22:30. > :22:34.they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private
:22:35. > :22:38.sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized
:22:39. > :22:41.businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an
:22:42. > :22:52.important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a
:22:53. > :22:59.single chairman from the FTSE 2 0, correct? I don't know all the
:23:00. > :23:10.chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss
:23:11. > :23:13.of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but
:23:14. > :23:23.the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto
:23:24. > :23:33.for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you,
:23:34. > :23:47.Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick
:23:48. > :23:54.it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think
:23:55. > :24:00.you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting
:24:01. > :24:04.things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I
:24:05. > :24:08.think he was referring to the 5 p rate of tax is that he made some
:24:09. > :24:15.comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax
:24:16. > :24:18.from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has
:24:19. > :24:24.his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:24:25. > :24:28.come onto this business of the top rate of tax, do you accept or don't
:24:29. > :24:33.you that there is a point when higher rates of income tax become
:24:34. > :24:39.counter-productive? Ultimately you want to have the lowest tax rates
:24:40. > :24:44.possible. Do you accept there is a certain level you actually get less
:24:45. > :24:50.money? I think ultimately there is a level beyond you could go which
:24:51. > :24:55.would be counter-productive, for example the 75% rate of tax I
:24:56. > :25:08.mentioned earlier, being advocated by Unite in France. Most French
:25:09. > :25:16.higher earners will pay less tax than under your plans. I beg your
:25:17. > :25:23.pardon, with the 50p? Under your proposals, people here will pay more
:25:24. > :25:28.tax than French higher earners. If you are asking if in terms of the
:25:29. > :25:35.level, you asked the question and I answered it, do I think if you reach
:25:36. > :25:39.a level beyond which the tax burden becomes counter-productive, can I
:25:40. > :25:43.give you a number what that would be, I cannot but let me explain -
:25:44. > :25:50.the reason we have sought to increase its two 50p is that we can
:25:51. > :25:54.get in revenue to reduce the deficit. In an ideal world you
:25:55. > :25:58.wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax which is why during our time in
:25:59. > :26:08.office we didn't have one, because we didn't have those issues. Sure,
:26:09. > :26:14.though you cannot tell me how much the 50p will raise. In the three
:26:15. > :26:23.years of operation we think it raised ?10 billion. You think. That
:26:24. > :26:27.was based on extrapolation from the British library. It is at least
:26:28. > :26:33.possible I would suggest, for the sake of argument, that when you
:26:34. > :26:40.promise to take over half people's income, which is what you will do if
:26:41. > :26:50.you get your way, the richest 1 currently account for 70 5% of all
:26:51. > :26:57.tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a danger that if you take more out of
:26:58. > :27:06.them, they will just go? I don't think so, we are talking about the
:27:07. > :27:09.top 1% here. If you look at the directors of sub 5 million turnover
:27:10. > :27:24.companies, the average managing director of that gets around
:27:25. > :27:33.?87,000. Let me narrow it down to something else. Let's take the .1%
:27:34. > :27:39.of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over
:27:40. > :27:44.14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If
:27:45. > :27:51.they go because you are going to take over half their income, you
:27:52. > :27:58.have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at
:27:59. > :28:02.tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not
:28:03. > :28:07.controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not
:28:08. > :28:17.unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one
:28:18. > :28:25.other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example
:28:26. > :28:32.in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major
:28:33. > :28:38.economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are
:28:39. > :28:43.coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the
:28:44. > :28:50.fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden We
:28:51. > :28:54.have run out of time but thank you for being here.
:28:55. > :28:58.Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:28:59. > :29:01.Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a very public spat over who should
:29:02. > :29:04.head up the schools inspection service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have
:29:05. > :29:07.continued to needle away at the Education Secretary. And other
:29:08. > :29:31.senior Lib Dems have also taken aim at their coalition partners. Here's
:29:32. > :29:34.Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the polite welcome of these school
:29:35. > :29:37.children to Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and his party colleague
:29:38. > :29:39.schools minister David Laws would be so forthcoming right now from the
:29:40. > :29:42.man in charge of schools Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws
:29:43. > :29:45.is said to have been furious with The Education secretary over the
:29:46. > :29:48.decision to remove Sally Morgan as chair of Ofsted. But those who know
:29:49. > :29:51.the inner working of the Lib Dems say that's just understandable. When
:29:52. > :29:54.you have the department not being consulted, it would be possible for
:29:55. > :29:57.him to not publicly comment. The remarkable thing would be if he
:29:58. > :30:08.hadn't said anything at all. We should be careful to understand this
:30:09. > :30:18.is not always part of a preplanned decision. There is a growing sense
:30:19. > :30:22.that inside Number Ten this is a concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also
:30:23. > :30:26.understand there is no love lost between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove
:30:27. > :30:32.to say the least, and a growing frustration that if the Lib Dems
:30:33. > :30:35.think such so-called yellow and blue attacks can help them with the
:30:36. > :30:43.election, they can also damage the long-term prospects of the Coalition
:30:44. > :30:46.post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more
:30:47. > :30:48.significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander s
:30:49. > :30:51.recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne
:30:52. > :30:54.to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this
:30:55. > :30:57.builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of
:30:58. > :31:00.people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice
:31:01. > :31:02.people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative
:31:03. > :31:16.policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain
:31:17. > :31:20.his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that
:31:21. > :31:28.we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if
:31:29. > :31:34.we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the
:31:35. > :31:38.Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation
:31:39. > :31:44.strategy was always likely as 2 15 approached, so is there evidence it
:31:45. > :31:48.works? Or of the work we publish shows the Lib Dems have a huge
:31:49. > :31:53.problem in terms of their distinctiveness, so attacking their
:31:54. > :31:56.coalition partners or the Labour Party is helpful in showing what
:31:57. > :32:02.they are against, but there are bigger problem is showing what they
:32:03. > :32:07.are for. And one Conservative MP with access to Number Ten as part of
:32:08. > :32:12.the PM's policy board says yellow on blue attacks are misplaced and
:32:13. > :32:17.irresponsible. At this stage when all the hard work is being done and
:32:18. > :32:25.the country is back on its feet the Lib Dems are choosing the time to
:32:26. > :32:29.step away from the coalition. That is your position, but do you suspect
:32:30. > :32:36.coming up to the next election we will see more of this? I think the
:32:37. > :32:42.Lib Dems are about as hard to pin down as a weasel in Vaseline. And
:32:43. > :32:45.with the public's view of politicians right now, and wants to
:32:46. > :32:52.be seen as slicker than a well oiled weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer
:32:53. > :33:02.Matthew Oakeshott and senior Conservative backbencher Bernard
:33:03. > :33:06.Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories
:33:07. > :33:11.on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:12. > :33:19.Lib Dem withdrawal from the coalition? I do not know, I am not
:33:20. > :33:23.privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy. Some of us have been independent for
:33:24. > :33:29.some time. I resigned over treatment of the banks. That is now being
:33:30. > :33:35.sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks,
:33:36. > :33:41.almost an enemy within strategy When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws
:33:42. > :33:48.and Danny Alexander, the three key people closest to the Conservatives,
:33:49. > :33:51.when you see all of them attacking, and this morning Nick Clegg has had
:33:52. > :33:56.a go at the Conservatives over drug policy. There is a string of
:33:57. > :34:03.policies where something is going on. It is difficult to do an enemy
:34:04. > :34:09.within strategy. I believe as many Lib Dems do that we should withdraw
:34:10. > :34:12.from the coalition six months to one year before the election so we can
:34:13. > :34:17.put our positive policies across rather than having this tricky
:34:18. > :34:25.strategy of trying to do it from within. Why does David Cameron need
:34:26. > :34:30.the Lib Dems? He probably does not. The country generally favoured the
:34:31. > :34:33.coalition to start with. Voters like to see politicians are working
:34:34. > :34:39.together and far more of that goes on in Westminster then we see. Most
:34:40. > :34:47.of my committee reports are unanimous reports from all parties.
:34:48. > :34:55.Why does he need them? I do not think he does. You would be happy to
:34:56. > :35:00.see the Lib Dems go? I would always be happy to see a single minority
:35:01. > :35:04.Government because it would be easier for legislation. The
:35:05. > :35:08.legislation you could not get through would not get through
:35:09. > :35:13.whether we were in coalition or not. The 40p tax rate, there
:35:14. > :35:17.probably is not a majority in the House of Commons at the moment,
:35:18. > :35:22.despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much
:35:23. > :35:26.difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the
:35:27. > :35:31.committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government
:35:32. > :35:35.that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is
:35:36. > :35:40.important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and
:35:41. > :35:45.sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row
:35:46. > :35:50.goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it
:35:51. > :35:57.carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out If
:35:58. > :36:02.it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within
:36:03. > :36:07.strategy as you have described it, can the coalition survived another
:36:08. > :36:11.16 months of this? It is also a question should they. I never
:36:12. > :36:18.thought I would say this, I agree with Bernard. Interestingly earlier
:36:19. > :36:22.Chuka Umunna missed the point talking about business support.
:36:23. > :36:25.Business is worried about this anti-European rhetoric and that is a
:36:26. > :36:29.deep split between the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP wing of the
:36:30. > :36:35.Tory party. That is really damaging and that is something we need to
:36:36. > :36:40.make our own case separately on Do you get fed up when you hear
:36:41. > :36:44.constant Lib Dem attacks on you What makes me fed up is my own party
:36:45. > :36:51.cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to
:36:52. > :36:58.have this much more open debate I would like to see my own party
:36:59. > :37:00.leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal
:37:01. > :37:05.Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want
:37:06. > :37:09.to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can
:37:10. > :37:13.get it through the Commons, but we need to get the Liberals out of the
:37:14. > :37:17.Government so they stop blocking the Government putting forward a
:37:18. > :37:27.referendum bill. And put millions of jobs at risk? I am not going down
:37:28. > :37:31.the European road today. It strikes me that given that the attacks from
:37:32. > :37:36.the Lib Dems are now coming from the left attacking the Tories, is this a
:37:37. > :37:41.representative of the failure of Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a
:37:42. > :37:47.centrist Liberal party and he now accepts the only way he can save as
:37:48. > :37:53.many seats as he can do is to get the disillusioned left Lib Dem
:37:54. > :37:57.voters to come back to the fold The site is we have lost over half our
:37:58. > :38:02.vote at the last election and at the moment there is no sign in the polls
:38:03. > :38:08.of it coming back and we are getting very close to the next election I
:38:09. > :38:14.welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem, but talking
:38:15. > :38:18.about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat voters at the
:38:19. > :38:23.last election are radical, progressive people who want to see a
:38:24. > :38:26.much fairer Britain and a much less divided society and we must make
:38:27. > :38:33.sure we maximise our vote from there. We know what both of you
:38:34. > :38:37.want, but what do you think will happen? Do you think this coalition
:38:38. > :38:43.will survive all the way to the election or will it break up
:38:44. > :38:49.beforehand? I think it will break up beforehand. Our long-term economic
:38:50. > :38:52.plan is working. The further changes in policies we want to implement to
:38:53. > :38:59.sustain that plan are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When
:39:00. > :39:03.will they break up? It has lasted longer than I thought it would, but
:39:04. > :39:11.it must break up at least six months before the election. Do you think it
:39:12. > :39:15.will survive or not? The coalition has delivered a great deal in many
:39:16. > :39:20.ways, but it is running out of steam. It depends what happens in
:39:21. > :39:24.the May elections. If the Liberal Democrats do not do better than we
:39:25. > :39:33.have done in the last three, there will be very strong pressure from
:39:34. > :39:38.the inside. You both agree. Television history has been made.
:39:39. > :39:44.You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be
:39:45. > :39:58.looking at the week ahead with our political panel. Until then it is
:39:59. > :40:05.the Sunday Politics across the UK. Welcome from us. What else could we
:40:06. > :40:09.possibly talk about? There have been 48 hours of disruption to London's
:40:10. > :40:12.transport network and the same again is coming this week. Boris Johnson
:40:13. > :40:19.will be here to discuss his position. With me is Markfield,
:40:20. > :40:25.Conservative MP, and Emily Thornberry, Labour MP for Islington
:40:26. > :40:29.South and Finsbury. First, two women in front line or front bench
:40:30. > :40:35.politics? Labour leader Ed Miliband accused David Cameron of failing to
:40:36. > :40:41.advance the cause of women generally and failing to promote Conservative
:40:42. > :40:48.women in particular. Look at the all-male front bench before us. And
:40:49. > :40:52.he says he wants to represent the whole country. I guess they did not
:40:53. > :41:01.let women into the bullying can club either. First, before we discuss the
:41:02. > :41:10.issues, as a stance did that work? I suppose it did. It was the luck of
:41:11. > :41:15.the draw, because normally there would be one or two of the current
:41:16. > :41:21.ministers who would have been there. Yes, it worked as a bit of a stunt
:41:22. > :41:26.and Labour have done a lot of polling saying there was a problem
:41:27. > :41:32.with women for the Conservatives. It looks as though Labour's lead is
:41:33. > :41:38.larger amongst women voters, so that is why he decided to lead on this.
:41:39. > :41:43.As a stance had your guys gone and checked the diary and found out who
:41:44. > :41:53.was away? Theresa Villiers was not coming over? It was a bit of luck.
:41:54. > :41:58.Normally even on a good week you would only have a couple of women on
:41:59. > :42:02.the front bench whereas half of our Shadow Cabinet I women. We do not
:42:03. > :42:10.normally put them all the front bench. What I found extraordinary
:42:11. > :42:14.was some political commentators were saying we only put the women on the
:42:15. > :42:22.front bench to make a point, but they are there week in, out. We
:42:23. > :42:26.decided to make a point that we would put them, although it was not
:42:27. > :42:34.quite completely stage-managed, we said, move up. It is hard for you
:42:35. > :42:38.fundamentally to raise the issue about women in politics when the
:42:39. > :42:45.Conservatives will always have Margaret Thatcher. Absolutely. It
:42:46. > :42:49.may have been 20 or 30 years ago and the Conservatives will always talk
:42:50. > :42:54.about it and the Prime Minister is married to a woman as well and he
:42:55. > :42:57.has met a few occasionally. That is not the point. You need to listen to
:42:58. > :43:07.women and you need to make sure your policies are relative to women. You
:43:08. > :43:11.know these things called PBS, the informal friend of the Prime
:43:12. > :43:17.Minister who will be his eyes and ears, people are saying this and
:43:18. > :43:19.that. If you look at the number the Prime Minister has had and the
:43:20. > :43:27.Chancellor of the exchequer has had, they have had sex. How many of
:43:28. > :43:34.them have been women? One. Looe it is because they have a problem
:43:35. > :43:38.listening to women. The biggest problem is more the culture of
:43:39. > :43:44.youth. We are both older than any of the main party leaders. A lot of
:43:45. > :43:49.women have a lot of family responsibilities. I accept for a lot
:43:50. > :43:53.of women they are put off the idea of getting into politics in their
:43:54. > :43:58.30s and early 40s. As a result of the cult of youth that is what has
:43:59. > :44:05.got to change. There are a huge amount of women who could come into
:44:06. > :44:13.politics in their 40s and 50s. Why does Labour have so many more women
:44:14. > :44:17.MPs? We were answered that in more detail at another time. The Prime
:44:18. > :44:22.Minister called it unnecessary, the Mayor pointless and the unions said
:44:23. > :44:24.they had no choice. There were two days of disruption on the Tube
:44:25. > :44:33.network and there will be more this week. 48 hours of strikes this week
:44:34. > :44:38.caused misery for many commuters and a headache for the Mayor of London.
:44:39. > :44:45.I am sorry about the inconvenience this morning. It will not last long.
:44:46. > :44:51.It used to be that disruption by strikes was a distant memory and if
:44:52. > :44:57.the Mayor has his way, the reforms will change the way we use the Tube
:44:58. > :45:02.for ever. Every ticket office on the Tube will be scrapped by the end of
:45:03. > :45:04.next year at a loss of 1000 jobs, although Transport for London say
:45:05. > :45:19.there will be no compulsory redundancies. Less than 3% of
:45:20. > :45:23.journeys on the Chu involves the ticket office. Transport for London
:45:24. > :45:27.like to say that only 3% of journeys on the underground use the ticket
:45:28. > :45:32.office but that is if you look at it in terms of percentage. The numbers
:45:33. > :45:39.seem much bigger, 36 million times a year, or 100,000 times every day. To
:45:40. > :45:46.put that in context, that is three times as many journeys as take place
:45:47. > :45:50.from the Mayor's cable car and cycle hire schemes combine, both things he
:45:51. > :45:58.is keen to keep funding. According to the trade unions, the closures
:45:59. > :46:04.will also make us less safe. Is there any empirical research that
:46:05. > :46:09.suggests networks without a ticket office are less safe? We have not
:46:10. > :46:13.done it, I don't think that kind of research has been done, but in the
:46:14. > :46:19.event of a problem taking place not just a terrorist attack or something
:46:20. > :46:24.of that nature, the passenger will ask the staff to help them. After a
:46:25. > :46:29.number of occasions when there has been a major signal failure or
:46:30. > :46:35.someone taken ill, they don't just sit behind and sell tickets, these
:46:36. > :46:38.people play a vital role. If the London Underground is going to be
:46:39. > :46:42.open on a Friday and Saturday night, people using it throughout the
:46:43. > :46:47.night, surely the wrong thing to do is to get rid of these people. They
:46:48. > :46:55.should be there to supplement the extra people using the network. Why
:46:56. > :47:00.don't we keep the ticket office is open to give people a sense of
:47:01. > :47:08.security they want? In 2008, Boris Johnson campaigned to keep the
:47:09. > :47:14.ticket offices open. When I was mayor there was a proposal to close
:47:15. > :47:21.40 or so ticket offices, I agreed with about 20, but when you are
:47:22. > :47:25.looking at Victoria and charring Cross and these other large
:47:26. > :47:30.stations, you just cannot have tourists milling around, people who
:47:31. > :47:35.come from Sheffield or Aberdeen not certain how the system works, there
:47:36. > :47:44.is a real problem there. According to one expert, the reforms are
:47:45. > :47:55.likely to go ahead. It looks like the decision has been made and it
:47:56. > :48:01.will go through. TfL Make these decisions, and after a few days of
:48:02. > :48:07.strikes everything carries on as before. Indeed, Transport for
:48:08. > :48:16.London's plans only count for a tiny proportion of savings compared to
:48:17. > :48:20.the cuts they will have two make. The strikes will continue long after
:48:21. > :48:25.this dispute is over. Mayor Johnson is here, he has come to talk about
:48:26. > :48:36.the strike and the issues around it. Let's talk about how it will affect
:48:37. > :48:40.those stations in a moment, but in terms of this week you have been
:48:41. > :48:45.leading from the front but wouldn't you be better establishing rapport
:48:46. > :48:49.with some of these union leaders? It is an important point is that you
:48:50. > :48:54.should leave management to get on and manage, and if you think back to
:48:55. > :49:00.industrial relations in the 197 s when we have this thing, politicians
:49:01. > :49:05.supplanting their managers, inviting union leaders in for beer and
:49:06. > :49:09.sandwiches, it was a disaster. There has barely been a moment since I
:49:10. > :49:13.have been mayor when we haven't either had a threat of strike or
:49:14. > :49:19.some kind of action going on with the RMT in particular. In those
:49:20. > :49:29.circumstances, you have got to leave it to your people, to TfL to get on.
:49:30. > :49:35.If the people were looking for some moral authority here, who could
:49:36. > :49:40.bring Londoners together and unlock an intractable dispute, you are
:49:41. > :49:49.rather left without the necessary equipment or the background, are
:49:50. > :49:55.you? You mean TfL? You haven't built any relationship with these unions
:49:56. > :50:01.at all. I have certainly have many conversations with representatives
:50:02. > :50:07.from the RMT and other unions who run London. You can't get away with
:50:08. > :50:15.that, can you? Have you ever met a leader of the union in the time you
:50:16. > :50:23.have been mayor? I have met Bob Crow. You haven't met Bob Crow, we
:50:24. > :50:31.know you haven't met Bob Crow. I have met Bob Crow. What I haven t
:50:32. > :50:36.done... I mean in a formal capacity to somehow say, no official business
:50:37. > :50:41.here, let's just meet each other. I want to tell you that I want to
:50:42. > :50:46.support the workers at the appropriate time. I think Tony
:50:47. > :50:51.Travers got it right in your report, there is a ritualistic display by
:50:52. > :51:00.the leaders who want to show they can take on TfL, Bob Crow in
:51:01. > :51:04.particular. Couldn't you have helped position yourself? You talk about
:51:05. > :51:11.rising above it, couldn't you have said, you have good intentions, I
:51:12. > :51:15.don't hold anything against you With the greatest respect it is the
:51:16. > :51:20.point I made at the beginning. If I, as the mayor, were to step in
:51:21. > :51:24.when you have really quite militant people, not actually so much Bob
:51:25. > :51:30.Crow but others around you who have no interest in doing a deal, if I
:51:31. > :51:38.were to step in and undercut my negotiators, that is the last thing
:51:39. > :51:46.they need. Have you offered guidance and clarity of your position to TfL
:51:47. > :51:52.bosses? They are operating with your authority, and you have presumably
:51:53. > :51:57.told them, this is going ahead, don't negotiate? On the contrary, I
:51:58. > :52:01.have told them to have the door open, not to be mapped choke or
:52:02. > :52:05.confrontational, to engage, to communicate what we are doing, to
:52:06. > :52:12.sell the message about how this is the best possible package for the
:52:13. > :52:20.RMT and for Londoners. Since November we have called 15
:52:21. > :52:25.meetings. The RMT and another have only turned up to six of those,
:52:26. > :52:32.boycotted the others, and in the others they simply refused to
:52:33. > :52:37.engage. What needs to happen is that there are talks that have been going
:52:38. > :52:42.on on Friday, and we hope clearly that there will be a deal and I have
:52:43. > :52:47.no doubt the deal will be made but I want to stress the worst possible
:52:48. > :52:54.thing to get a result now would be to have grandstanding by politicians
:52:55. > :53:06.and union barons when what needs to happen is that the two sides needs
:53:07. > :53:13.to come together and take forward... Let's examine that. There
:53:14. > :53:22.are 270 tube stations, we will be closing that acute offices. 256
:53:23. > :53:30.actually. How many staff will be gone from those ticket offices? The
:53:31. > :53:38.programme altogether involves around 750 redundancies. I suppose the key
:53:39. > :53:44.question... Let me give you the key answer. How many more will be
:53:45. > :53:49.visible to Londoners? At most nations, Emily will be thrilled to
:53:50. > :53:55.hear this, at most stations you will actually have more people visible to
:53:56. > :54:01.Londoners out, concourses than there were before. How is that possible?
:54:02. > :54:09.Because you have quite a lot of people doing jobs as supervisors
:54:10. > :54:14.behind plain glass... This is being driven by technology. You are kind
:54:15. > :54:20.enough to play that footage of me in 2008, ticket offices were not
:54:21. > :54:32.invented, sorry the iPhone was not invented. 2007, the year before It
:54:33. > :54:41.didn't have the uptake. You also had ticket machines. We have had a
:54:42. > :54:47.massive increase in contactless ticket purchasing. You can get staff
:54:48. > :54:54.out from behind the glass and do what the passengers want them to do.
:54:55. > :55:00.How can it make it safer when four 125 nations there will only be one
:55:01. > :55:05.person in the station? Because a lot of those stations already only have
:55:06. > :55:11.a tiny number of people looking after them as it is, and very often
:55:12. > :55:17.that person will be behind plate-glass. What is happening now
:55:18. > :55:21.is that a member of staff will be there to offer guidance, all the
:55:22. > :55:27.people that need it most, to tourists, vulnerable, disabled, the
:55:28. > :55:32.elderly, and they will be equipped with the latest technology, they
:55:33. > :55:37.will be able to offer refunds, deal with problems with the Oyster card
:55:38. > :55:43.and that will be a massive improvement. If there is going to be
:55:44. > :55:48.fewer staff, which there will be, and you are going to extend the
:55:49. > :55:54.hours, it will mean there are fewer people in the stations. The question
:55:55. > :56:02.I asked TfL and they couldn't answer, the Angel tube station will
:56:03. > :56:06.be open 24 hours, and the platforms are long way away from the main part
:56:07. > :56:10.of the station, so how many staff will there be on duty at three
:56:11. > :56:20.o'clock in the morning on a Saturday night, and how many will it be that
:56:21. > :56:31.make it safe? The answer is enough. Tell us. I have teenage children, I
:56:32. > :56:35.want to know if it is safe. Let s not be parochial. I'm giving you the
:56:36. > :56:40.answer, there will be more out on the platforms than there are now and
:56:41. > :56:51.that will offer greater reassurance. For 24 hours, people
:56:52. > :56:58.will be in there? You will have a much greater amount of drunkards,
:56:59. > :57:02.people on the platform... Can I make a point in defence which is that
:57:03. > :57:07.when you look at what has happened on the Tube, crime has come down a
:57:08. > :57:16.20%, the number of police on the Tube since I have been there has
:57:17. > :57:22.risen by 10% and this is obviously a concern, I have talked extensively
:57:23. > :57:29.to my officials about this, and they are unanimous that these measures
:57:30. > :57:36.will continue to make London transport... Can I bring Mark in?
:57:37. > :57:41.Your constituents will say to you, we thought the Tube system was going
:57:42. > :57:46.to be expanded, and yet the number of stuff around is going to be
:57:47. > :57:54.fewer. The number is still being reduced. There has continued to be
:57:55. > :58:00.huge technological changes. This is not a great advertisement for
:58:01. > :58:03.London, people are watching these strikes taking place so this is not
:58:04. > :58:10.responsible behaviour from the union. Credit to Boris and TfL,
:58:11. > :58:16.Londoners were very resilient with this strike and it was good that we
:58:17. > :58:21.have more buses being put on and I had to take a bus for the journey I
:58:22. > :58:28.made, taking my son to school, and I was struck by how well the
:58:29. > :58:31.passengers behaved but also the helpfulness of the conductors and
:58:32. > :58:39.the staff and everyone held together. No one would disagree and
:58:40. > :58:51.you have helped that response, you were very visible. The final word to
:58:52. > :58:59.you... I want to thank... Can I ask you, what is your mandate? 84% of
:59:00. > :59:04.Londoners anyway didn't vote for you as the mayor, but you had nowhere in
:59:05. > :59:16.your manifesto that you are going to do this. I had a very clear
:59:17. > :59:23.manifesto pledge that was for automation and modernisation. I hope
:59:24. > :59:33.we have more changes as quickly as possible. We did a survey, it showed
:59:34. > :59:42.82% of Londoners, once it was explained to them what we are doing,
:59:43. > :59:46.and let me tell you... How mad that you haven't spoken to Bob Crow in
:59:47. > :59:53.five years, he has to ring you up on the radio station. Your party
:59:54. > :59:59.brought this country to its knees by endlessly having union barons in and
:00:00. > :00:10.talking to them and insulting them. Let me on to rot and say... On that
:00:11. > :00:25.sexist assaults... He is not answering! We have been the reverse
:00:26. > :00:32.of the match out and we have engaged. Mike Brown and our teams
:00:33. > :00:36.have made it absolutely clear to people and on the London underground
:00:37. > :00:49.that change is coming and they accept it. You would have done it.
:00:50. > :00:57.Thank you so much for coming in Now it is time for the rest of the
:00:58. > :01:01.political news in 60 seconds. Figures this week show the
:01:02. > :01:08.Metropolitan police has lost over 3000 officers since May, 2010, a
:01:09. > :01:13.drop of 10%. There are just over 30,000 PCs in London despite the
:01:14. > :01:20.Mayor's pledge to maintain numbers at or around 32,000.
:01:21. > :01:26.Doctors and nurses will have to log details of the injuries suffered by
:01:27. > :01:29.female nude -- genital mutilation which will gather more information
:01:30. > :01:35.on the practice which was outlawed in the UK in 1995. Transport for
:01:36. > :01:39.London has announced the buses are to become cashless pond this summer.
:01:40. > :01:47.The number of cash fares will fall to less than 1% this year. The
:01:48. > :01:51.Southbank Centre has put its ?1 0 million redevelopment plans on hold
:01:52. > :01:56.after the Mayor criticised its original proposal for funding.
:01:57. > :02:02.The plan involves moving a community of skateboarders to make way for
:02:03. > :02:09.retail units. Let's not talk any more about transport. What about
:02:10. > :02:14.losing the Southbank plans? They could be shelved because Boris
:02:15. > :02:20.Johnson wants to keep the skateboarders? It was an interesting
:02:21. > :02:22.bit of politics. These are youngsters who are not involved in
:02:23. > :02:27.politics who have been campaigning and have made their voice heard It
:02:28. > :02:35.might mean the whole development does not happen. I think Boris makes
:02:36. > :02:40.quite a good point, we have probably got enough retail units in central
:02:41. > :02:44.London. Let's make sure it is a genuinely open space for all
:02:45. > :02:50.Londoners and particularly young Londoners who otherwise may not have
:02:51. > :02:58.a voice. Both of you, thank you so much. Andrew, it is back to you Can
:02:59. > :03:03.David Cameron get a grip on the floods? Can UKIP push the
:03:04. > :03:07.Conservatives into third place in the Wythenshawe by-election on
:03:08. > :03:11.Thursday? Is the speaker in the House of Commons in danger of
:03:12. > :03:20.overheating? All questions over the weekend. Let's look at the politics
:03:21. > :03:24.of the flooding. Let me show you a clip from Eric Pickles, the
:03:25. > :03:33.Communities Secretary, earlier on the BBC this morning. We perhaps
:03:34. > :03:38.relied too much on the Environment Agency's advice. I apologise. I
:03:39. > :03:44.apologise unreservedly and I am really sorry we took the advice of
:03:45. > :03:48.what we thought we were doing was the best. The Environment Agency is
:03:49. > :03:53.being hung out to dry by the Government and the Government has
:03:54. > :03:58.taken over the running of the environmental mess in the Somerset
:03:59. > :04:01.Levels. It is turning into a serious crisis by the Government and even
:04:02. > :04:07.more so for the people who are dealing with the flooding. There is
:04:08. > :04:12.no doubt that what has been revealed is it is not just about what the
:04:13. > :04:18.Government did or did not do six months ago. What is being exposed is
:04:19. > :04:21.an entire culture within the Environment Agency, fuelled often by
:04:22. > :04:26.European directives about dredging and all manner of other things, a
:04:27. > :04:31.culture grew up in which plants were put ahead of people if you like All
:04:32. > :04:34.of that is collapsing in very difficult circumstances by the
:04:35. > :04:40.Government and it is difficult for them to manage. Chris Smith would
:04:41. > :04:44.save the Environment Agency is acting under a law set by this
:04:45. > :04:49.Government and previous governments and the first priority is the
:04:50. > :04:52.protection of life, second property and third agricultural land and he
:04:53. > :04:58.is saying we are working within that framework. It is an edifying
:04:59. > :05:02.spectacle, they are setting up Lord Smith to be the fall guy. His term
:05:03. > :05:07.of office comes at the end of the summer and they will find something
:05:08. > :05:11.new. But the point Lord Smith is making is that dredging is important
:05:12. > :05:16.and it was a mistake not to dredge, but it is a bigger picture than
:05:17. > :05:20.that. I am no expert, but you need a whole skill solution that is looking
:05:21. > :05:27.not just bad dredging, but at the whole catchment area looking at the
:05:28. > :05:32.production of maize. It is harvested in autumn and then the water runs
:05:33. > :05:36.off the topsoil. You see the pictures of the flooding, it is all
:05:37. > :05:41.topsoil flooding through those towns. What you have got to have in
:05:42. > :05:44.the uplands is some land that can absorb that water and there are
:05:45. > :05:50.really big questions about the way we carry out farming. Chris Smith
:05:51. > :05:55.was meant to appear on the Andrew Marr show this morning, but pulled
:05:56. > :05:59.back at the last minute. There must be doubts as to whether he can
:06:00. > :06:05.survive to the summer. Where is the chief executive of the Environment
:06:06. > :06:09.Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris Smith has been setup in this
:06:10. > :06:15.situation. David Cameron went to the Somerset Levels on Friday for about
:06:16. > :06:21.half an hour, in and out, with no angry people shouting at him. You to
:06:22. > :06:29.a farm. It is agreed he has had good crisis. But we are seen as being a
:06:30. > :06:33.London media class who does not understand the countryside. You can
:06:34. > :06:36.imagine David Cameron in a pair of wellies. If this was happening in
:06:37. > :06:43.Guildford, it would not have dragged on for so long. Looe it is
:06:44. > :06:49.interesting how they are saying the Environment Agency has put words in
:06:50. > :06:51.front of everything else. The great-great-grandson of Queen
:06:52. > :06:57.Victoria thinks people should be sacked at the whim. He is talking
:06:58. > :07:01.about how the Environment Agency spent ?31 million on a bird
:07:02. > :07:06.sanctuary. It turns out the bird sanctuary was an attempt to put up a
:07:07. > :07:11.flood defence system for a village which has worked. That village has
:07:12. > :07:16.been saved. They compensated some farmers for the farmland they were
:07:17. > :07:19.not going to be able to farm and put a flood defence system further back
:07:20. > :07:28.to protect this village and then they built a bird sanctuary. It was
:07:29. > :07:31.not ?31 million to create a bird sanctuary, it was to save a village
:07:32. > :07:37.and it worked. But in 2008 the Environment Agency was talking about
:07:38. > :07:43.dynamiting every pumping agency There was a metropolitan mindset on
:07:44. > :07:49.the part of that agency. If it does what Owen Paterson, who is now off
:07:50. > :07:55.in an eye operation, suggested a plan to fix this, they will find a
:07:56. > :07:58.lot of what they want or need to do will be in contravention of European
:07:59. > :08:08.directives. The Wythenshawe by-election. There is no question
:08:09. > :08:13.Labour is going to win, probably incredibly convincingly, one poll
:08:14. > :08:18.showing 60% plus of the vote. It would be surprising if Labour was in
:08:19. > :08:25.any threat up there. The issue is, does UKIP beat the Tories and if so,
:08:26. > :08:30.by how much? The latest poll was showing it in second place as nip
:08:31. > :08:35.and tuck, but the feeling I have is UKIP will do better. And they have
:08:36. > :08:38.got a great local candidate. The Tories have not parachuted somebody
:08:39. > :08:43.in and they have got a local man in and that will help them. We have all
:08:44. > :08:50.been waiting to see if the Tories lose their head, but they might go
:08:51. > :08:56.chicken earlier than that. Will UKIP come second? It looks like that A
:08:57. > :09:01.poll this week showed that Labour is way ahead and UKIP possibly second.
:09:02. > :09:05.But it is an important by-election for UKIP. If they do well in the
:09:06. > :09:10.European elections, they should still be on a roll. They did really
:09:11. > :09:16.well in by-elections last year. If they do not do well, is it because
:09:17. > :09:22.they are not on payroll? Or in Manchester they have a fantastic
:09:23. > :09:27.leader of the council? Will UKIP come a good second? I think they
:09:28. > :09:32.will and if they do not, it might suggest Nigel Farage is losing its
:09:33. > :09:37.slightly. One thing to look out for is how little Labour are attacking
:09:38. > :09:44.UKIP. Their election strategy relies a lot on UKIP taking Tory votes But
:09:45. > :09:48.it could also take Labour votes Particularly in the north and we
:09:49. > :09:54.shall see. The results will be out on Thursday night. The Speaker of
:09:55. > :09:59.the House of Commons, John Bird , his interventions have become more
:10:00. > :10:09.frequent and something was strange. Have a look. I am grateful to the
:10:10. > :10:12.honourable gentleman. Order, the Government Chief Whip has absolutely
:10:13. > :10:17.no business whatsoever shouting from a sedentary position. Order, the
:10:18. > :10:27.honourable gentleman will remain in the chamber. If we could tackle this
:10:28. > :10:32.problem. I say to the honourable member for Bridgwater, be quiet if
:10:33. > :10:45.you cannot be quiet, get out, it is rude, stupid and pompous and it
:10:46. > :10:55.needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order. You really... Order. You are a very
:10:56. > :10:59.over excitable individual. You need to write out 1000 times, I will
:11:00. > :11:06.behave myself at Prime Minister 's questions. He was talking to the
:11:07. > :11:12.Education Secretary and it is not 1000 lines, it is 100 lines, at
:11:13. > :11:18.least it was in my day. Is he beginning to make a fool of himself?
:11:19. > :11:22.There was only one over excitable person there and that was the
:11:23. > :11:25.speaker and he is losing the confidence of the Conservative MPs,
:11:26. > :11:31.but he never had that in the first place. But he is an incredibly
:11:32. > :11:36.reforming speaker. He has this strange idea that Parliament should
:11:37. > :11:40.hold the Government to account. It will never catch on. It means very
:11:41. > :11:47.frequently there are urgent questions. The other day he called a
:11:48. > :11:51.backbench amendment on the deportation of foreign criminals. He
:11:52. > :11:57.could have found a way not to call that. He is a real reformer and the
:11:58. > :12:01.executive do not like that. That is true and he has allowed Parliament
:12:02. > :12:07.to flourish which has given us room to breathe at a time of a coalition
:12:08. > :12:14.Government when Parliament has more power. That is all that enough to
:12:15. > :12:21.overcome these increasingly mannered and some of them may be preplanned
:12:22. > :12:25.interventions? The last one was last week, and last week the speaker had
:12:26. > :12:33.a rather stressful week with the tabloids. Something is clearly up. I
:12:34. > :12:39.think it is a real shame. I think many of us when he was elected did
:12:40. > :12:43.not think he would make a great speaker and there are people like
:12:44. > :12:49.Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who have said he is a fantastic speaker.
:12:50. > :12:52.He has given the Commons room to breathe and he has called on
:12:53. > :12:59.ministers to be held to account when they do not want to be. What do you
:13:00. > :13:03.think? He is seen as anti-government and he is pro-backbencher and that
:13:04. > :13:10.is what people do not like. People like Douglas Carswell are actually
:13:11. > :13:15.very strongly in support of him We carry the interventions every week
:13:16. > :13:20.on Prime Minister 's questions and we see them every week and they are
:13:21. > :13:23.getting a bit more eccentric. If I was having to keep that under
:13:24. > :13:31.control, I would be driven slowly mad. But his job is easier than
:13:32. > :13:38.mine. But if you look at his deputy, Eleanor Laing, she is very
:13:39. > :13:45.robust, but she is calm. Chap who does the budget is excellent. We are
:13:46. > :13:53.on throughout the week at midday on BBC Two. We will be back next Sunday
:13:54. > :14:00.at 11. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.