:00:37. > :00:40.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria Miller mounts as the Tory press,
:00:45. > :00:48.Tory voters and even a Tory Minister turn against her. That's our top
:00:49. > :00:51.story. The economic outlook is getting
:00:52. > :00:56.rosier. But Ed Miliband is having none of it. The cost of living
:00:57. > :01:06.crisis is here to stay, says Labour. Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins
:01:07. > :01:09.us for the Sunday Interview. And we bring you the Sunday Politics
:01:10. > :01:20.Gallery. But which former world leader is behind these paintings of
:01:21. > :01:26.world leaders? The Mayor wants to close Heathrow and replace it with a
:01:27. > :01:33.new London borough. A blue flint for regeneration or economic Armageddon?
:01:34. > :01:38.And with me as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:39. > :01:41.business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be
:01:42. > :01:47.as brief as a Cabinet Minister's apology.
:01:48. > :01:51.A frenzy of betting on the Grand National yesterday. But there was
:01:52. > :01:54.one book on which betting was suspended, and that was on the fate
:01:55. > :01:57.of Culture Secretary Maria Miller, now the 2/1 favourite to be forced
:01:58. > :02:00.out the Cabinet. She galloped through her apology to the Commons
:02:01. > :02:04.on Thursday in just 32 seconds. But speed did her no favours. There's
:02:05. > :02:08.been mounting pressure on her to resign ever since, especially from
:02:09. > :02:10.Tories. And this weekend the Chairman of the Independent
:02:11. > :02:13.Parliamentary Standards Authority, Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave
:02:14. > :02:28.away the power to decide how colleagues who break the rules are
:02:29. > :02:33.punished. An inquiry into Maria Miller's expenses claims was launch
:02:34. > :02:38.in 2012, following allegations he claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she
:02:39. > :02:43.lived in part time with her parents. She had designated this her second
:02:44. > :02:45.home. She was referred to the Parliamentary Standards
:02:46. > :02:52.Commissioner, who recommended that she repay ?45,000. But this week the
:02:53. > :02:57.Commons Standards Committee, comprising of MPs from all parties,
:02:58. > :03:03.dismissed the complaint against Maria Miller and ordered her to
:03:04. > :03:11.repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently overclaiming her merge claimants.
:03:12. > :03:14.She was forced to apologise to the Commons for the legalistic way she
:03:15. > :03:19.dealt with the complaints against her. But Tony Gallagher told the
:03:20. > :03:24.Daily Politics on Friday: We got a third call from Craig Oliver who
:03:25. > :03:28.pointed out, she is looking at Leveson and the call is badly timed.
:03:29. > :03:30.I think if you are making a series of telephone calls to a newspaper
:03:31. > :03:32.organisation investigating the conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that
:03:33. > :03:37.comes close After that interview Craig Oliver
:03:38. > :03:42.contacted us, saying there was no threat in anyway over Leveson. I
:03:43. > :03:46.mead it clear at the time. Tony Gallagher is talking rubbish about
:03:47. > :03:50.me, and you can use that. The Daily Telegraph have released a tape of a
:03:51. > :03:54.phone call between Maria Miller's aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter
:03:55. > :03:59.investigating her expenses claim. Joanna Hindley said:
:04:00. > :04:06.Maria's obviously been having quite a lot of editor's meetings around
:04:07. > :04:12.Leveson at the moment. So I'm just going to kind of flag up that
:04:13. > :04:14.connection for you to think about. The Prime Minister is sticking by
:04:15. > :04:18.his Culture Secretary, but this weekend's crescendo of criticism of
:04:19. > :04:21.her presents him with a problem and he could be wishing Maria Miller
:04:22. > :04:26.would just fall on her sword. Even over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on
:04:27. > :04:29.Sunday poll think she should go. On the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and
:04:30. > :04:36.Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, defended his colleague. I've
:04:37. > :04:41.known her always to be a reasonable and honest person. But is she doing
:04:42. > :04:44.the Government or her any good by staying in office at the moment, do
:04:45. > :04:48.you think? This is a matter the Prime Minister has to take
:04:49. > :04:53.consideration of and she herself. My view generally is I'm supportive of
:04:54. > :04:58.Maria, because if we are not careful we end one a witch-hunt of somebody.
:04:59. > :05:01.And I'm joined now by the Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and
:05:02. > :05:03.the man in the white suit, former MP and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin
:05:04. > :05:06.Bell. Welcome to you both. Stuart Stuart sturkts let me put this to
:05:07. > :05:11.you, a Conservative MP told this programme, this is a quote, she has
:05:12. > :05:16.handled this appallingly. Downing Street has acted like judge and
:05:17. > :05:19.jury, for Craig Oliver to get involved is disastrous. She's been
:05:20. > :05:23.protected by the whips from the start. What do you say to that? It's
:05:24. > :05:28.not great, is it? The fact of the matter is the question one should
:05:29. > :05:34.ask is, did she deliberately try to make money? Did she deliberately try
:05:35. > :05:38.to obscure ate? The answer is she certainly didn't deliberately try to
:05:39. > :05:42.make money, in the system, which was the old system, and with regard to
:05:43. > :05:48.obscure ago, I wasn't there, but let's put it this way. She was going
:05:49. > :05:53.through a quasi-judicial process and might have ended up in court, so she
:05:54. > :05:57.has a right to defend herself. Hold on o you said she doesn't do it to
:05:58. > :06:01.make money, she remortgaged the house a couple of times to earn more
:06:02. > :06:05.interest to us, the taxpayer, and when interest rates went down she
:06:06. > :06:10.didn't reduce the amount she was charging in expenses. Well, the
:06:11. > :06:15.point is the adjudicator said there was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a
:06:16. > :06:20.committee, Standards Committee, said actually it should be reduced. That
:06:21. > :06:24.was mainly MPs but there are three lay members. Yes, but they don't
:06:25. > :06:28.have the vote. OK, fine, that is where it is wrong and we've got to
:06:29. > :06:32.get it sorted. Let me put another quote from our Conservative MP. He
:06:33. > :06:38.didn't want to be named. None of you do at the moment. I'm being named.
:06:39. > :06:41.But you are backing her. George young in cahoots. He's been leading
:06:42. > :06:46.on the Standards Committee to find her innocent. The Standards
:06:47. > :06:50.Committee is unfit for purpose. I think the Standards Committee should
:06:51. > :06:56.be revisited. I think the system is still evolving. And I think actually
:06:57. > :07:00.we ought to have totally independent judgment on MPs' pay and allowances.
:07:01. > :07:05.We haven't have not got there yet and that is where it is wrong.
:07:06. > :07:08.Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in the Maria Miller process and with
:07:09. > :07:13.the current Standards Commissioner in the same way that they saw off a
:07:14. > :07:18.previous Commissioner they thought was too independent? Andrew it is
:07:19. > :07:26.exactly the same. Yesterday I looked at a diary entry I made for May
:07:27. > :07:32.2000, I said, dreadful meeting standards and privileges, they are
:07:33. > :07:38.playing party politics. One of them told Elizabeth fill kin to her face
:07:39. > :07:42.the gossip in the tea room was she had gone crazy. Nothing's changed.
:07:43. > :07:47.What this shows is most of all, what's the committee for? If it is
:07:48. > :07:53.just going to rubber stamp what the party wants and its mates, I don't
:07:54. > :07:57.see any point. But it hasn't rubber stamped. It's changed it. Well, it
:07:58. > :08:02.has watered down. That's why we should make it totally independent
:08:03. > :08:09.and it shouldn't be involved in the House of Commons. It is plus plus ca
:08:10. > :08:14.change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and MPs closing ranks for one of their
:08:15. > :08:19.own. Has the Commons learned nothing? And this is after the
:08:20. > :08:23.expenses scandal, where everything was out for everybody to see, you
:08:24. > :08:27.would think MPs would be careful. This is before the expenses scandal.
:08:28. > :08:32.We are looking at an historical event, during your time, Martin, not
:08:33. > :08:36.mine. I'm clean on this. You campaigned for him as an
:08:37. > :08:41.independent. I did, he was a good friend of mine. And now you've
:08:42. > :08:45.joined the club. And now you are defending Maria Miller? I'm
:08:46. > :08:48.defending someone who hasn't been proved guilty of anything beyond the
:08:49. > :08:53.fact she was rather slow to come forward with evidence. My point on
:08:54. > :08:58.that, is I understand that. MPs are being lambasted the whole time these
:08:59. > :09:02.days. There were a heck of a lot of them, Martin, who are utterly
:09:03. > :09:07.decent. She didn't try to make money. We've just been through that.
:09:08. > :09:11.I don't think that's right. The jury is out on that. What should have
:09:12. > :09:15.happened in the Miller case, Martin Bell? I don't think there should be
:09:16. > :09:19.a committee on standards. I think the Commissioner should make a
:09:20. > :09:23.report. There has been to be justice for the MP complained against. Then
:09:24. > :09:28.the committee of the whole House can consider it. But we are, the House
:09:29. > :09:36.of Commons, then as now is incapable of regulating itself. That's been
:09:37. > :09:40.proving yet again. She made a perfunctory apology. She threatened
:09:41. > :09:44.and instructed the Standards Commissioner investigating her, and
:09:45. > :09:48.her special adviser linked expenses to Leveson, when trying to stop the
:09:49. > :09:53.Daily Telegraph from publishing. I mean, is that the behaviour of a
:09:54. > :09:56.Cabinet Minister? Well, it's probably not the behaviour of
:09:57. > :10:01.someone that's got time on their hands. She's a very busy Cabinet
:10:02. > :10:07.Minister. Well, she had enough time to write lots of letters to the
:10:08. > :10:14.Standards Commission ser. She felt under such threat. She had the time.
:10:15. > :10:17.She had to make the time. Die know the lady is not trying desperately
:10:18. > :10:22.to make money. I disagree but on that. The fact of the matter is,
:10:23. > :10:27.this was an old, old system, that we've tried to put right, or the
:10:28. > :10:31.Commons has tried to put right. I agree that MPs shouldn't get
:10:32. > :10:37.involved in this. Should we get rid of this committee? It serves no
:10:38. > :10:40.purpose except to cause trouble. The adjudicator has said that and it
:10:41. > :10:45.should be the end of it. It shouldn't come back to the Commons.
:10:46. > :10:49.Although her special adviser threatened them over Leveson she was
:10:50. > :10:54.trying to introduce something like trying to introduce something like
:10:55. > :11:01.Leveson and that is something a big chunk that the press doesn't want.
:11:02. > :11:07.She is a target. It has a good record on this issue. It played wit
:11:08. > :11:12.a straight bat. The facts aren't in dispute are they? Will she make it
:11:13. > :11:16.to the next cabinet reshuffle and then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it
:11:17. > :11:22.is a matter for the Prime Minister. In my view, as things stand, I
:11:23. > :11:28.question did she deliberately want to make money? I don't think she
:11:29. > :11:32.did. Should she go? No. Should she be reshuffled? I don't know.
:11:33. > :11:37.Goodness me, you are asking someone who will never be reshuffled,
:11:38. > :11:42.because he will never make it. I was only asking for your opinion, not
:11:43. > :11:47.your ability to do it. This is a problem for Cameron isn't it? It is
:11:48. > :11:53.a problem for Cameron. There is nothing wrong with returning to be
:11:54. > :11:59.badge benches, as you know. Hear, hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen,
:12:00. > :12:05.can she survive? Is I'm going out of the prediction game when I said
:12:06. > :12:11.Clegg is going to win the date, so I owe Janan a tenner on that one.
:12:12. > :12:18.Grant Shapps has supported her. She was ringed by Sir George young and
:12:19. > :12:23.Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty devastating. On past form David
:12:24. > :12:29.Cameron hates having to bounce people out of the cabinet. He will
:12:30. > :12:32.want to keep Maria Miller until the summer reshuffle. This is a question
:12:33. > :12:34.mark on whether she survive this is. This isn't damaging to the
:12:35. > :12:40.Conservative or the Labour Party, it is damaging to everyone. This is
:12:41. > :12:43.catastrophic damage to the entire political establishment. Every
:12:44. > :12:47.single speech that David Cameron and Ed Miliband have given since 2009,
:12:48. > :12:51.talking about restoring trust, they can wipe them from their computers,
:12:52. > :12:56.because voters are going to look that there and say, this lot haven't
:12:57. > :13:01.learnt anything. They are giving perfunctory apologies and then you
:13:02. > :13:07.have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs and rather than paying back ?45,000,
:13:08. > :13:12.she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have been into it. Damage is huge. Just
:13:13. > :13:16.getting rid of one Cabinet Minister, you will need to do more than that.
:13:17. > :13:20.You will notice that Labour haven't made huge weather of this. No,
:13:21. > :13:25.goodness me, they have their own skeletons. Exactly. The person who
:13:26. > :13:30.has made hay out of this is Nigel Farage, who has not been backwards
:13:31. > :13:35.in coming forward. He doesn't seem to care about skeletons. The Prime
:13:36. > :13:39.Minister has be-Gunby backing her, but that's not popular even with
:13:40. > :13:44.Tory voters. How does he get out of this? This is the problem for him.
:13:45. > :13:50.Five years ago his reaction to the expenses scandal was seen by many
:13:51. > :13:55.Tory backbenchers as excessive. They felt hung out to dry by a man who is
:13:56. > :13:59.independently wealthy. To go from that to making a special exemption
:14:00. > :14:03.to Maria Miller because it is politically suitable is more
:14:04. > :14:05.incendiary and provocative. It is not just upsetting the voters and
:14:06. > :14:10.the Daily Telegraph but a good number of people behind him. I think
:14:11. > :14:16.they will get rid of her. I think the Government, to paraphrase
:14:17. > :14:22.Churchill, will zoo the decent thing after exhausting all options, of the
:14:23. > :14:28.European elections a reshuffle. The culture department has gone from a
:14:29. > :14:31.baulk water in haul to one of the most politically sensational jobs
:14:32. > :14:35.because of its proximity to the Leveson issue. She has to be
:14:36. > :14:50.replaced by someone Lily skillful and substantial. Mr Cameron is not
:14:51. > :14:57.short of smart women? Nikki Morgan, the education department, these are
:14:58. > :15:03.absolutely outstanding women and the problem that the generation elected
:15:04. > :15:10.in 2005, Maria Miller generation, there are some really good people
:15:11. > :15:14.elected in 2010. You are not responsible for hacking into the
:15:15. > :15:25.culture Department's Twitter account last night? I was out at the time!
:15:26. > :15:29.They all say that! One so, Maria Miller is like a modern-day Robin
:15:30. > :15:36.Hood... She robs the poor to help the rich. Which one of us has not
:15:37. > :15:46.embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it is the lady. You have the perfect
:15:47. > :15:55.cover. We would not know how to, would we? You cannot tweet from a
:15:56. > :15:59.mobile device, can you? Play it safe. No, do something dramatic.
:16:00. > :16:02.Have lots of pledges. Have just a few pledges. Ah, there must be a
:16:03. > :16:05.Labour policy review reaching its conclusion because everyone has some
:16:06. > :16:13.free advice for the party about its message and the man delivering it.
:16:14. > :16:19.Here's Adam. He is well liked by the public don't quite buy him as a
:16:20. > :16:22.leader. The papers say he is in hock to the unions and the party has a
:16:23. > :16:27.lead in the polls but it is not solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That
:16:28. > :16:35.is what they said Winnie who lost the 1982 election. The whole country
:16:36. > :16:42.deserves better and we will work to ensure that the day will come when
:16:43. > :16:47.with the Labour government, the country will get better. Someone who
:16:48. > :16:53.was there can see some spooky parallels. The important lesson from
:16:54. > :16:57.1992 is it cannot rest on your laurels and hope for the best, you
:16:58. > :17:02.cannot sit on a lead of seven points because the election narrows that
:17:03. > :17:05.and you cannot rely on the government not getting its act
:17:06. > :17:10.together because the Conservative Party was well funded and organised,
:17:11. > :17:15.the double whammy posters, the tax bombshell, but incredibly effective
:17:16. > :17:22.and the message was unified and they beat us on the campaign. The lesson
:17:23. > :17:25.for Labour today is this lead will evaporate quite possibly over the
:17:26. > :17:31.next few months and we might go into the election behind in the polls.
:17:32. > :17:35.But Ed Miliband is getting conflicting advice about how to
:17:36. > :17:40.avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be cautious and then, the idea that
:17:41. > :17:46.Labour can squeak into office with just 35% of the vote, which worries
:17:47. > :17:52.some people. Each month, the Labour Party meets around the country and
:17:53. > :17:57.last week, everybody spoke about the dangers of this 35% strategy. They
:17:58. > :18:03.were increasingly unhappy and it is very important that those people
:18:04. > :18:08.around the leader naturally have a duty to protect him and they make
:18:09. > :18:14.sure he gets this message that while there is total support for him, they
:18:15. > :18:17.do want this key year in the run-up to the General Election to be
:18:18. > :18:23.putting out an alternative which we can defend on the doorstep. The
:18:24. > :18:28.doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his concession speech is crammed with
:18:29. > :18:36.Spanish back hackers. The old Labour offices are no a budget hostel.
:18:37. > :18:40.Labour headquarters is down the road and they are putting the finishing
:18:41. > :18:43.touches to a speech Ed Miliband will give this week about the cost of
:18:44. > :18:48.living and I am told he will drop hints about new policies in juicy
:18:49. > :18:52.areas like housing, low pay, growth and devolving power. As for the
:18:53. > :18:56.charge that they are not radical enough, his people say they want to
:18:57. > :19:01.be bold but they have to be credible as well. They say that Labour is
:19:02. > :19:05.more united than it has ever been but there has been some grumbling
:19:06. > :19:09.that the cost of living campaign is not the same as a vision for the
:19:10. > :19:14.country. And that Ed Miliband was not statesman-like enough at Prime
:19:15. > :19:17.Minister's Questions and one figure who sat at the same table in the
:19:18. > :19:23.Neil Kinnock years summed it up like this. Things are OK but it feels
:19:24. > :19:26.like we're playing for the draw. Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline
:19:27. > :19:40.Flint joins me now for the Sunday Interview. This 35% victory
:19:41. > :19:47.strategy, it does not sound very ambitious? I am campaigning to win
:19:48. > :19:52.this election with a majority government and everybody else around
:19:53. > :19:57.the table is also. But we want to go to every corner of the country and
:19:58. > :20:02.win votes for Labour and win seats, that is what we are working towards.
:20:03. > :20:09.To avoid last time, the coalition bartering. But that 35% is a victory
:20:10. > :20:14.strategy so are you saying there is no 35% strategy and that no one at
:20:15. > :20:20.the heart of Labour is not arguing for this? We are working to win
:20:21. > :20:24.around the country and to win all of those battle ground seats and we
:20:25. > :20:28.must have a strategy that appeals to a cross-section of the public but
:20:29. > :20:39.within that, that broad group Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You
:20:40. > :20:41.could do that with 35% of the vote? There is lots of polling and
:20:42. > :20:47.everyone looks at this about what we need to do to get seats and we want
:20:48. > :20:55.to have a comprehensive majority at the next election to win to govern
:20:56. > :20:59.this country. Last week, we have been reading reports of splits in
:21:00. > :21:05.the party over policy and on tactics, even strategy. A struggle
:21:06. > :21:12.for control of the General Election manifesto, we are told. What are you
:21:13. > :21:14.arguing over? I said on the committee and just listening to the
:21:15. > :21:19.film before, it is about being radical but also credible and we are
:21:20. > :21:26.talking about evolution and that is an important subject but we are also
:21:27. > :21:30.united and to be honest, in 2010 people were writing us off saying we
:21:31. > :21:35.would turn on ourselves and that has not been the case. We are not
:21:36. > :21:39.arguing about the fundamentals, we are discussing the policies that are
:21:40. > :21:43.coming up with different colleagues and talking about how we can make
:21:44. > :21:46.sure they are presented to the public and that is part of a
:21:47. > :21:54.process. That is a discussion, not disagreement. The Financial Times,
:21:55. > :22:00.which is usually pretty fair, reports a battle between Ed
:22:01. > :22:04.Miliband's radical instincts and the more business fiscal conservatism of
:22:05. > :22:09.Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am for radical change, I am for energy
:22:10. > :22:14.and I believe strongly we must be formed the market and people might
:22:15. > :22:19.portray that as anti-business but this is about more competition and
:22:20. > :22:23.transparency and others coming into this market so our policy on this is
:22:24. > :22:31.radical, not excepting the status quo. It is also for business.
:22:32. > :22:40.Opinion polls show that few people regard Ed Miliband as by Minister
:22:41. > :22:45.material -- Prime Minister material. That has been true since he became
:22:46. > :22:51.leader. And in some cases, they have been getting worse. Why is that?
:22:52. > :22:56.Opinion polls say certain things about the personalities of leaders,
:22:57. > :23:02.David Cameron is not great either. And they were not great when he was
:23:03. > :23:09.in opposition. At this stage, he was getting 49% as Prime Minister real
:23:10. > :23:16.material and Ed Miliband, 19. -- Prime Minister material. When you
:23:17. > :23:20.look at certain questions that the public is asked about who you think
:23:21. > :23:23.you would trust about being fair in terms of policy towards Britain, who
:23:24. > :23:29.understands the cost of living crisis, they very much identify with
:23:30. > :23:36.Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the polls. Ed Miliband has made that
:23:37. > :23:42.happen. We have one more councillors, we have been running in
:23:43. > :23:45.by-elections and we have held this government over the barrel over six
:23:46. > :23:50.months on energy prices. That is to do with his leadership. The more
:23:51. > :23:58.that voters save him, the less they seem convinced. In 2011, he had been
:23:59. > :24:07.leader for one year, and only 11% regarded him as weird, by 2014, that
:24:08. > :24:12.was 41%. Look at that! Look at that weirdness! What people need is to
:24:13. > :24:16.know where the Labour Party stands on fundamental issues. And in those
:24:17. > :24:21.areas, particularly the cost of living and fairness and people being
:24:22. > :24:25.concerned that we are entering into a period where people will be worse
:24:26. > :24:30.for the first time ever at the end of the Parliament, these things are
:24:31. > :24:38.important and Ed Miliband is part of our success. Definitely. I think
:24:39. > :24:43.this is ridiculous, to be fair, he is not a politician that says, I am
:24:44. > :24:51.dying with the Arctic monkeys, I know who is the number one. He did
:24:52. > :24:56.not play that game. -- down. He is not either there to portray himself
:24:57. > :25:01.as someone who was with the children, I know everything about
:25:02. > :25:04.popular culture. His authenticity is the most important thing. People do
:25:05. > :25:11.not think he is authentic, unless they think we were at is authentic.
:25:12. > :25:17.Is it true that his staff applaud him when he comes back after giving
:25:18. > :25:25.even a mediocre speech? I have never heard that. I have never heard about
:25:26. > :25:28.him being applauded. And I am pleased to applaud him with he makes
:25:29. > :25:32.speeches, I have given him a standing ovation. You have to do
:25:33. > :25:39.that because the cameras are rolling! No, he made a good speech.
:25:40. > :25:43.Five minutes without notes. It took a long time to memorise I don't
:25:44. > :25:49.blame him! The cost of living. Focusing on that, it has paid
:25:50. > :25:53.dividends. But inflation is falling and perhaps collapsing, unemployment
:25:54. > :26:00.is falling faster than anybody thought, as we can see. Wages are
:26:01. > :26:05.rising, soon faster than prices. Retail sales are booming, people
:26:06. > :26:10.have got money in their pockets. Isn't the cost of living crisis
:26:11. > :26:16.narrative running out of steam? I do not think so and I should say that I
:26:17. > :26:21.welcome any sign of positive changes in the economy, if anybody gets a
:26:22. > :26:27.job in Doncaster, I am pleased by the end of this Parliament families
:26:28. > :26:34.will be over ?900 worse off because of tax and benefit changes and the
:26:35. > :26:37.working person is ?1600 worse off and it is the first government since
:26:38. > :26:41.the 1870s where people will be at the end of the Parliament. We
:26:42. > :26:45.believe the government made wrong choices that lead the rich off at
:26:46. > :26:53.the expense of those on middle and lower incomes. -- let the rich. The
:26:54. > :26:58.average family ?794 worse off from tax and benefit changes. That has
:26:59. > :27:03.been backed up. They are those figures. But he has skewed these
:27:04. > :27:09.figures by including the richest, where the fall in tax and the
:27:10. > :27:14.penalty they pay is highest. If you take away the richest, it is nowhere
:27:15. > :27:17.near that figure. Everybody agrees and even the government and
:27:18. > :27:24.knowledges that at the end of their tenure in Parliament, people will be
:27:25. > :27:28.worse off. 350,000 extra people who would desperately like full-time
:27:29. > :27:32.work who are working part-time and 1 million young people unemployed and
:27:33. > :27:37.the reason the cost of living has a residence is people feel that. I was
:27:38. > :27:42.in a supermarket and at Doncaster and someone summed this up, he said
:27:43. > :27:46.I work hard and at the end of the week, beyond paying bills, I have
:27:47. > :27:55.got nothing else. If you take away the top 10% who are losing over
:27:56. > :28:01.?600,000, the average loss comes down to around ?400, less than half
:28:02. > :28:07.of what you claim. That figure is totally misleading. These are the
:28:08. > :28:14.figures from the IFS. It still shows... Whatever way you shape
:28:15. > :28:17.this, people will still be worse off, families worse off because of
:28:18. > :28:23.these changes to tax and benefits and working people because wages
:28:24. > :28:28.have not kept up with prices. Your energy portfolio, you back the
:28:29. > :28:32.enquiry into the big six companies and you intend to go ahead with the
:28:33. > :28:38.price freeze and reconfigure the market even before it reports. If
:28:39. > :28:41.you win, this is a waste of time? Whilst we have had this process
:28:42. > :28:46.before the announcement, we always feel if it goes that way, there
:28:47. > :28:49.might be areas we have not thought of that the enquiry will also draw
:28:50. > :28:54.attention to that we might want to add on. You are right, our basic
:28:55. > :29:00.reforms for the new regulator, to separate generation supply, we will
:29:01. > :29:04.pursue that. What happens if this report concludes that your plans are
:29:05. > :29:09.not correct? You will still go ahead? I don't think so. Actually,
:29:10. > :29:13.if you look at the report that Ofgem produced, some of the issues Labour
:29:14. > :29:18.has been drawing attention to like vertical integration, they cover
:29:19. > :29:24.that. I was asking about the Competition Commission? The report
:29:25. > :29:31.last week is a result of working together and I think it is clearly
:29:32. > :29:35.accepted in this sector, look at SSE last week, they will separate the
:29:36. > :29:56.business. We are pushing at the open door. It has already pulled out of
:29:57. > :29:59.gas. So it follows if you freeze energy prices across the market, it
:30:00. > :30:03.might be the right thing to do but there will be a cost in terms of
:30:04. > :30:06.jobs and investment, correct? Well, I met with SSE last weekand the
:30:07. > :30:11.chief executive and talked about these issues. The jobs changes are
:30:12. > :30:15.partly about them looking at how they could be more efficient as a
:30:16. > :30:18.company. On offshore wind that wasn't really to do with the price
:30:19. > :30:20.freeze. That was more to do with issues around confidence in that
:30:21. > :30:27.area and therefore willing to put the money into it, as well as
:30:28. > :30:32.technical issues as well But there'll be job losses. Is that a
:30:33. > :30:36.price worth paying? We believe the reason we are having a price freeze
:30:37. > :30:39.is these companies have been overcharging customers and haven't
:30:40. > :30:43.been investing in their organisations and making them more
:30:44. > :30:47.efficient. I do not believe a price freeze is linked to job losses.
:30:48. > :30:51.These companies do need to be more efficient. Goal for all of us is
:30:52. > :30:55.realising the fantastic opportunity for more jobs and growth from an
:30:56. > :30:59.energy sector that has certainty going forward. That's what Labour
:31:00. > :31:02.will deliver. Caroline Flint, thank you.
:31:03. > :31:05.It's 1130 and you're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to
:31:06. > :31:08.viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland.
:31:09. > :31:09.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead, but first The Sunday
:31:10. > :31:23.Politics where you are. Hello and welcome to the London part
:31:24. > :31:29.of the programme. I'm joined by my guests for the next 20 minutes or so
:31:30. > :31:33.by Jane Ellison, Conservative MP for Battersea, and Frank Dobson, Labour
:31:34. > :31:37.imagine for whole torn and St Pancras. Welcome. Later, the Mayor's
:31:38. > :31:42.plans to knock down Heathrow Airport, create a whole new borough,
:31:43. > :31:47.and shift London's main airport to the east of the capital. But first,
:31:48. > :31:52.a report by the London health commission to advise the Mayor,
:31:53. > :31:56.headed by Lord Darzi, has looked at the sale of unused NHS property to
:31:57. > :32:00.be sold off to help address the problem of London's housing
:32:01. > :32:04.shortage. London health commission has
:32:05. > :32:08.publisheded a summary of the recommendations put to them as part
:32:09. > :32:12.of submissions to its report on the future of health services. Two
:32:13. > :32:16.recommendations were spotlightedly Lords doorsy. London's NHS should
:32:17. > :32:20.cash in on unused buildings if it wants to improve the capital's
:32:21. > :32:25.health. The buildings should be sold to help create the 400,000 jobs
:32:26. > :32:35.predicted to be needed in the next ten years. The NHS spends ?50 to ?60
:32:36. > :32:41.million pounds a year maintaining them. 30% of ten-year-olds in London
:32:42. > :32:46.are obese or overweight. A We need to look at every intervention,
:32:47. > :32:50.including taxation in tackling this big programme but that's not in my
:32:51. > :32:55.gift to announce. I'm advising the Mayor on what he should be doing.
:32:56. > :33:02.There is a huge amount of estate not used. And it is costing the taxpayer
:33:03. > :33:07.something between ?50 or ?60 million. A better use of the estate
:33:08. > :33:11.is one of the important outputs of this commission. The commission
:33:12. > :33:15.which was set up by the Mayor is tasked with finding new ways of
:33:16. > :33:24.getting the health message across to Londoners. Jane el songs do you
:33:25. > :33:29.accept the recommendation by Lord Darzi that you should be tax taxing
:33:30. > :33:34.fatty foods and fizzy drinks? It is one of the things people raise in
:33:35. > :33:38.this area of policy. I'm not entirely persuaded that's the way to
:33:39. > :33:44.go. Why not? We've achieved a great deal, for example 70% of labels on
:33:45. > :33:48.ready meals in supermarkets will soon have a completely standard
:33:49. > :33:51.packaging telling people the nutritional content. There's lot you
:33:52. > :33:55.can achieve through voluntary action. And we are seeing health
:33:56. > :34:00.education programmes having effect. We do look at all the evidence and I
:34:01. > :34:04.will be interesting interested in what the commission has to say. The
:34:05. > :34:09.Chief Medical Officer has warned that a sugar tax may have to be
:34:10. > :34:14.introduced because of high levels of obesity. The Government has no plans
:34:15. > :34:19.to do that as a moment. I'm interested to see what is going on
:34:20. > :34:23.internationally and keep open our option os. We are making good
:34:24. > :34:29.progress with voluntary action. Frank Dobson, 37% of ten-year-olds
:34:30. > :34:35.in London are obese. Do you think more drastic action like a tax is
:34:36. > :34:41.necessary Sing it probably. I support what Sally Davis is
:34:42. > :34:46.recommending, a tax on sugar. You can then take the money raised from
:34:47. > :34:53.the tax on sugar, which should put people off buying sugary stuff, and
:34:54. > :34:57.use it to subsidise fresh fruit and vegetables. Words from a former
:34:58. > :35:03.Health Secretary. Something perhaps you should be not just keeping on
:35:04. > :35:07.open mind to but looking at. We've this from arid Darzi, and the Chief
:35:08. > :35:12.Medical Officer, there is support for. This There is. I have a lot of
:35:13. > :35:20.conversations with some of those experts. It is an emerging area of
:35:21. > :35:24.policy but it's not an easy area in which to elect. I think everyone
:35:25. > :35:29.acknowledges that. I do think we haven't yet fully explored what
:35:30. > :35:33.could be achieved through voluntary action and health education. Do you
:35:34. > :35:38.welcome the Mayor of London treading on national policy? I'm very open to
:35:39. > :35:42.anybody who wants to raise issues, ideas around public health. One of
:35:43. > :35:46.the abuse of the public health system over the past year when we've
:35:47. > :35:51.put it back into local government is the innovation and creativity we've
:35:52. > :35:56.seen coming out of many local government authorities. Or it leads
:35:57. > :36:00.to a confused message. I don't think soft. Only this week in the house of
:36:01. > :36:03.Parliament I brought people together from all over the country who are
:36:04. > :36:08.doing great things in their local area to celebrate that. What we are
:36:09. > :36:11.seeing a an explosion of creativity across our local government. I'm
:36:12. > :36:16.open to the Mayor coming forward with new ideas. Frank Dobson, one of
:36:17. > :36:23.the other recommendations was about flogging off unused build that the
:36:24. > :36:28.NHS owns, costing ?50 million to ?60 million a year, a good idea? Some of
:36:29. > :36:34.them, maybe, but it needs to be looked at carefully. We need too
:36:35. > :36:40.make sure that if one bit is somebody who might own a particular
:36:41. > :36:44.chunk of land or a build building, it is surplus to their requirements,
:36:45. > :36:48.there may be another part of the health service nearby which could
:36:49. > :36:52.make good use of it. Providing that's looked into, there's no
:36:53. > :36:59.objection really to selling them off. But the question is, Lord
:37:00. > :37:06.Darzi, a very good man, says it could be used to deal a bit with the
:37:07. > :37:10.housing crisis, it won't deal with the housing crisis if it is being
:37:11. > :37:17.flog off to somebody who is going to develop flats for Russian oligarchs,
:37:18. > :37:20.as the London chapter of the friends of Vladimir Putin, who are the
:37:21. > :37:24.people who are driving up prices at the moment. Although there is a
:37:25. > :37:29.housing shortage, not for oligarchs but generally. There is a desperate
:37:30. > :37:33.housing shortage and a desperate increase in the cost of buying
:37:34. > :37:40.houses or rents, and that's partly been dragged up by these outsiders,
:37:41. > :37:45.the Russian ol gags or Chinese -- oligarchs or Chinese business people
:37:46. > :37:51.or people from the Gulf paying five times over the odds. Why would you
:37:52. > :37:56.spend money maintaining empty buildings and disused land I think
:37:57. > :38:01.Lord Darzi meant. Looking at your illustration, it looked like it was
:38:02. > :38:06.the National Temperance Hospital in my constituency. I and my
:38:07. > :38:10.constituency has been trying to get that as local housing for a long
:38:11. > :38:17.time and now it is going to be used as a depot for HS2 coming Uist
:38:18. > :38:22.Euston. Thank you. The Mayor of London's new proposal
:38:23. > :38:26.this week makes a third runway look positively mild. Boris Johnson wants
:38:27. > :38:31.nothing less than the close the airport and replace it with a new
:38:32. > :38:39.London borough. Is this the type of bold plan we need or a blueprint for
:38:40. > :38:44.economic Armageddon for London. Heathrow Airport has never been much
:38:45. > :38:48.loved by Boris Johnson. His preference for a hub estuary is
:38:49. > :38:54.famous. He announced plans about how he would like to see Heathrow closed
:38:55. > :38:58.altogether. A bold move. There is nothing in London bigger in economic
:38:59. > :39:02.terms. It is responsible for over 100,000 jobs. What the Mayor's
:39:03. > :39:06.critics say is this, there are few examples of the Mayor of a town
:39:07. > :39:09.lobbying to close one of its greatest economic assets. Instead
:39:10. > :39:14.the Mayor would like to see something a bit like this. Heathrow
:39:15. > :39:19.redeveloped and turned into a new suburb. On Monday he launched his
:39:20. > :39:25.vision of how he thinks it should happen. You've got a site 1,200
:39:26. > :39:29.hectares, bigger than Kensington and Chelsea, where you could all sorts
:39:30. > :39:34.of things. High-tech universities. We think about 90,000 jobs, maybe
:39:35. > :39:39.190,000 population. Tens of thousands, 80,000 new homes.
:39:40. > :39:42.Fantastic opportunity for West London. And the loss of jobs at
:39:43. > :39:45.Heathrow isn't such a problem, according to the leader of the
:39:46. > :39:50.council where the airport is situated. Nothing remains same
:39:51. > :39:55.forever. At one time there were huge elements of the population engaged
:39:56. > :40:00.in looking after horses had and then somebody ups and invents the motor
:40:01. > :40:04.car. What's happened to them? They are doing something else now aren't
:40:05. > :40:08.they? What we've heard a lot about is what would happen to the Heathrow
:40:09. > :40:11.Airport site if the airport was to close. What's not in these documents
:40:12. > :40:15.is details of close. What's not in these documents
:40:16. > :40:18.the rest of London if the airport was to shut.
:40:19. > :40:24.This West London freight company are based beyond the boundaries of the
:40:25. > :40:28.Mayor's redevelop redeveloped Heathrow. They rely on the airport
:40:29. > :40:32.for their business. Bosses feel so strongly, a pro-Heathrow message has
:40:33. > :40:36.been added to part of the fleet. They are highly dubious about the
:40:37. > :40:40.Mayor of London's plan. I'm guessing as a way with most things that
:40:41. > :40:45.deteriorate for whatever reason, they stand empty for 20-25 years
:40:46. > :40:52.before redevelopment starts and this side of London will be devastated in
:40:53. > :40:55.the way of unemployment. Even the Mayor's report draws comparison are
:40:56. > :40:59.London's Docklands. Once upon a time the Thames was the busiest waterway
:41:00. > :41:04.in the world and London's docks the gateway to the largest commercial
:41:05. > :41:09.empire history has ever seen. When the docks closed in the 1970s, East
:41:10. > :41:16.London was devastated. Its redevelopment remains an ongoing
:41:17. > :41:20.process. If Heathrow were to shut some fear West London would suffer
:41:21. > :41:25.the same fate. People that base their business model on big near an
:41:26. > :41:29.airport, whether for transport or access to goods, and they certainly
:41:30. > :41:33.wouldn't stay in this area. You would see a significant
:41:34. > :41:37.disinvestment from day one if the decision was taken to close
:41:38. > :41:40.Heathrow. Any decision about Heathrow Airport's future is some
:41:41. > :41:45.way off, as politicians wait for the Davis commission do report. In the
:41:46. > :41:49.meantime this week it emerged that Dubai has now overtaken Heathrow as
:41:50. > :41:52.the world's busiest International Airport.
:41:53. > :41:57.Joined by the Mayor's chief adviser on aviation. Welcome to the
:41:58. > :42:03.programme. Is this a pipe dream for a realistic plan? I think it is very
:42:04. > :42:06.realistic Jo. Nobody else seems to mention that between now and 2030
:42:07. > :42:11.the population of London is likely to grow by another 2 million people,
:42:12. > :42:14.by 25%. If you are sitting there as Mayor of London you've got to think
:42:15. > :42:18.hard about homes and jobs for them. We have a congested West London and
:42:19. > :42:22.a Heathrow Airport which isn't doing its job, which is constrained is,
:42:23. > :42:26.which is environmentally damaging the. Unlike other cities we should
:42:27. > :42:30.think of moving that outside the city limits. Yes we should be
:42:31. > :42:34.thinking what can we do with the site that's left over? Rapidly to
:42:35. > :42:38.move to have jobs and homes for people to accommodate this large
:42:39. > :42:44.population. That's the right thing to do, it is not a pipe dream. How
:42:45. > :42:51.many people living in Heathrow and Hounslow rely on Heathrow for its
:42:52. > :42:57.living. About 145,000 people. Would they lose their jobs? Far from it,
:42:58. > :43:02.aviation is a growing industry. There is would be more people in
:43:03. > :43:05.London employed in aviation if you allowed it to grow. This isn't like
:43:06. > :43:09.a car factory closing and going out of business or a steelworks. This is
:43:10. > :43:14.a growing industry. There would be more people employed. Many of them
:43:15. > :43:20.would relocate. Other people... Let me pick you up on the relocation,
:43:21. > :43:26.because if you are talking about the source of jobs that people have when
:43:27. > :43:32.they travel a short distance to Heathrow Airport, baggage handlers,
:43:33. > :43:38.caterers, cabin crew, cleaners. How are they going to relocate? They
:43:39. > :43:43.were not paid very well and rely on the airport for their livelihoods.
:43:44. > :43:47.With the right access they'll be able to continue their jobs. Who is
:43:48. > :43:51.going to pay for their commuting. They have to be near the jobs they
:43:52. > :43:55.do. That isn't true across London I'm afraid. You don't nope how
:43:56. > :43:59.London works. I do! People travel from all parts of London to jobs in
:44:00. > :44:03.other parts of London. Many of them on quite tight wage as. The fact of
:44:04. > :44:07.the matter is that this is a growing industry with more jobs and
:44:08. > :44:10.different skill sets. We are talking about something that's going be
:44:11. > :44:15.happening in about 15 years. We don't know the skill sets that are
:44:16. > :44:20.going to be needed. Are you going to need the same amount of of baggage
:44:21. > :44:25.handlers you will have more people employed many aviation and with a
:44:26. > :44:28.new city available at Heathrow and the jobs involved in creating that
:44:29. > :44:30.new city, the west of London is going to boom just as much as the
:44:31. > :44:39.east from this. Are you saying there would be no
:44:40. > :44:42.adverse effect on West London when you close the airport? There would
:44:43. > :44:46.be a dislocation effect that the Government can help with in terms of
:44:47. > :44:49.skills and training and the sort of things that people want over a 15
:44:50. > :44:52.year period. And we will certainly get huge net benefits from doing
:44:53. > :44:55.this. So there would be an adverse effect whilst this airport was being
:44:56. > :44:58.built? While the airport was being built, Heathrow would remain open
:44:59. > :45:01.during the whole of that period because you have no other airport.
:45:02. > :45:04.While it is being built and planned and developed over that 15 year
:45:05. > :45:08.period, anybody working at Heathrow who wanted to stay working at
:45:09. > :45:10.Heathrow would be able to do so. Other people who work at Heathrow,
:45:11. > :45:12.many of them police officers and customs officers and immigration
:45:13. > :45:16.officers, would get relocation packages, the BBC moved to Salford
:45:17. > :45:22.not long ago and it was done in a very sensible way. Let us ask two
:45:23. > :45:24.local MPs. Being in London, would this lead to the economic
:45:25. > :45:28.devastation of West London or is this something you can support? I
:45:29. > :45:31.have to say that my interest in Heathrow was primarily a
:45:32. > :45:35.constituency one, so for me it is too early to speak on it. I can see
:45:36. > :45:37.why the Mayor has to look ahead and have the horizon plan but my
:45:38. > :45:41.interest is constituency-based so I am waiting to see what the Davis
:45:42. > :45:47.Commission comes out with and my principal interest is in the noise
:45:48. > :45:55.levels that affect my constituents. You would like to see it moved away?
:45:56. > :45:58.I want to make sure that what everywhere we go, we need extra
:45:59. > :46:04.capacity added as not make life less comfortable. Could you support this?
:46:05. > :46:08.I will wait and see what the commission says. The Mayor must also
:46:09. > :46:15.think about capacity and Daniel Moylan says this is a plan. I am
:46:16. > :46:22.principally thinking of my constituents. Lots of constituents
:46:23. > :46:29.think this way, is this pie in the sky? Both the public and private
:46:30. > :46:34.sector have invested a huge amount of money in Heathrow and what is
:46:35. > :46:42.proposed is they should be another huge investment to build a new
:46:43. > :46:50.airport and then another lot of huge investment to replace Heathrow, once
:46:51. > :46:53.it has moved. It is not as though the country is absolutely rolling in
:46:54. > :47:00.capital, looking for somewhere to invest. The other thing is the whole
:47:01. > :47:08.of West London, the much wider area, the western side of London is
:47:09. > :47:14.very much geared to Heathrow being where it is and the location of a
:47:15. > :47:19.lot of businesses in the county areas to the west of London are also
:47:20. > :47:24.related to the idea of having a major airport at the west of London,
:47:25. > :47:30.not in the estuary. Do you have any support? The examples that Frank
:47:31. > :47:34.gives ignore this has been done successfully in other cities. You
:47:35. > :47:41.saw the lead of Hillingdon Council talking about this. -- leader of.
:47:42. > :47:46.People will have new opportunities for jobs and growth, Hong Kong has
:47:47. > :47:53.benefited so much from moving its airport and developing the new land.
:47:54. > :47:57.Munich. Lots of places. London is unique but that is not to say you
:47:58. > :48:04.cannot learn lessons. Denver has moved its airport and become a major
:48:05. > :48:10.economic success story. We have to leave it there. We can make this a
:48:11. > :48:21.great success. Good luck with that. Thank you. The rest of the political
:48:22. > :48:25.news in 60 seconds. Inspectors have been appointed by the government to
:48:26. > :48:28.examine allegations of financial management and fraud in Tower
:48:29. > :48:33.Hamlets. Eric Pickles was also handed a file to Metropolitan
:48:34. > :48:38.Police. The Mayor denies any wrongdoing. Warnings were issued as
:48:39. > :48:41.a mix of European emissions and dust from the Sahara descended on the
:48:42. > :48:43.capital. This follows the EU recently launching legal proceedings
:48:44. > :48:48.against the UK for failing to improve air quality. Starting this
:48:49. > :48:50.week, hospitals must record and report whether a patient has been
:48:51. > :48:56.subjected to female genital mutilation or if there is a family
:48:57. > :48:59.history of the practice. At a full meeting of the London Assembly,
:49:00. > :49:05.Mayor Boris Johnson was accused of failing to tackle London's housing
:49:06. > :49:10.crisis. The Mayor aims to build 42,000 homes a year, 17,000 of which
:49:11. > :49:16.would be affordable. In his first term as Mayor, 57,000 affordable
:49:17. > :49:22.homes were built. So far in his second term, 18,000 have been
:49:23. > :49:26.completed. Let's talk briefly about air quality in London because we
:49:27. > :49:30.have had the Saharan dust over the capital and other parts of the
:49:31. > :49:33.country. Do you accept this has had a more significant impact because of
:49:34. > :49:38.all of the poor quality air quality in London that already exists? We
:49:39. > :49:42.have seen a combination of factors and some are broadly out of our
:49:43. > :49:47.control and there are some local factors, and those things came
:49:48. > :49:50.together. We have been making sure that people have been warned if they
:49:51. > :49:54.have pre-existing conditions to be careful but there are things we can
:49:55. > :49:57.do. The Mayor is bringing in 600 new clean buses by 2016 so I think
:49:58. > :50:01.London is beginning to tackle this problem. Yes, because the EU is
:50:02. > :50:04.launching legal proceedings against the UK after failing to improve air
:50:05. > :50:07.quality after 13 years of warnings and high-levels of nitrogen dioxide
:50:08. > :50:12.in London. So, progress has not been made, has it? Well, actually action
:50:13. > :50:15.has been taken and that is even more important thing in my local council,
:50:16. > :50:20.we have seen concerted action by the Mayor having a greater impact on the
:50:21. > :50:24.High Street. We are starting to see action being taken but of course
:50:25. > :50:27.there is more we can do but there are some factors in the last few
:50:28. > :50:35.days that have been out of anyone's control. Do you think it is because
:50:36. > :50:38.there is already a poor level of air quality in London? My constituency,
:50:39. > :50:41.particularly the Euston Road area, has the worst air pollution in
:50:42. > :50:45.London already. Are you in favour of electric cars? I am in favour of
:50:46. > :50:48.anything that reduces pollution but I am also against HS2 coming into
:50:49. > :50:56.Euston because even the people promoting HS2 admit that it would
:50:57. > :51:00.add additional air pollution. I think we're going to have to leave
:51:01. > :51:04.it there but thank you to both of you for being my guests today. That
:51:05. > :51:08.is all we have got time for. My thanks to Jane Ellison and Frank
:51:09. > :51:18.Dobson. Tim Donovan is back in the chair next week. And with that, back
:51:19. > :51:27.to Andrew. Welcome back and time now to get more from our panel. So they
:51:28. > :51:31.can justify their meagre patents. This cost of living mantra will last
:51:32. > :51:37.all the way until the election. Cannot? Ed Miliband leaves he is
:51:38. > :51:42.onto something and for most of this Parliament, inflation has
:51:43. > :51:47.outstripped wages. That is going to go the other way and wages will
:51:48. > :51:51.rise, to which you say Ed Miliband has nothing to say. He says if you
:51:52. > :51:56.think people are going to feel better in the blink of an eye, you
:51:57. > :52:00.are a Conservative and do not understand the depth of this and he
:52:01. > :52:04.is taking the message from a presidential election in America in
:52:05. > :52:08.2012 and make Romney was ahead on some of the economic indicators but
:52:09. > :52:14.Barack Obama was ahead on the key one, do you believe this candidate
:52:15. > :52:17.will make your family's life better? The message that Ed Miliband
:52:18. > :52:23.will try to say is the next election is about whose side are you on? And
:52:24. > :52:27.he believes Labour will be on the side of more voters than
:52:28. > :52:33.conservatives. It would be crazy for Labour not to talk about the cost of
:52:34. > :52:36.living because even if wages exceed inflation next year, it is not as if
:52:37. > :52:41.voters will walk around feeling like Imelda Marcos, they will still feel
:52:42. > :52:47.as if they were struggling and not just compared... Retail sales are
:52:48. > :52:53.slowing? That is not the sign of palpable disparity. Circumstances
:52:54. > :52:58.are better than three years ago but not better than five years ago. The
:52:59. > :53:06.Reagan question will still be employed, are you better off than at
:53:07. > :53:09.the last election? But things in America were actually getting worse
:53:10. > :53:15.when he asked that. I covered that election, that is why it resonated
:53:16. > :53:21.and they did get worse. The Ayatollah had quadrupled the price
:53:22. > :53:24.of oil. This is based on things getting relatively better, after a
:53:25. > :53:31.very long wait, so the cost of living critique will have to adapt?
:53:32. > :53:37.It will but it gets out of a very sticky spot and the IFS says wages
:53:38. > :53:40.will not outstrip inflation and by that time they can start talking
:53:41. > :53:45.about other things, plans for the railways and tuition fees and at the
:53:46. > :53:47.moment, everything is up for grabs. Labour know that every time they
:53:48. > :53:53.talk about something they want to do, the question is, how do you pay
:53:54. > :53:57.for it? They can talk about the economy and they don't have
:53:58. > :54:02.substantial things to say. Is it true that Mr Iain Duncan Smith was
:54:03. > :54:07.going to make a major announcement on benefit cheats? Or something to
:54:08. > :54:11.do with that this morning? But he decided against it because of the
:54:12. > :54:15.tobacco over Maria Miller? It would be very odd to go on to The Andrew
:54:16. > :54:20.Marr Show to have a chat and see what he is having for lunch. Patrick
:54:21. > :54:24.went from the Guardian said he was going to set out higher financial
:54:25. > :54:28.penalty phase for providing inaccurate information in claims.
:54:29. > :54:35.This is a bad day to do that, given that MP expenses are treated far
:54:36. > :54:41.more lenient the than any one from Joe public. That would be
:54:42. > :54:44.fascinating, if true. And he is making a very big speech on well for
:54:45. > :54:50.tomorrow and this tweet from Patrick went at the Guardian, he has proper
:54:51. > :54:54.sized on welfare matters and he tends to know what is going on. But
:54:55. > :54:59.it would be deeply unfortunate if that was the message today. How can
:55:00. > :55:03.he make a speech that has anything about cracking down on benefit
:55:04. > :55:11.claimants? Not today but I am not sure tomorrow. Do you get the
:55:12. > :55:16.impression that nobody in both main parties is very confident of winning
:55:17. > :55:20.in 2015? I column last week said the result, the most likely result from
:55:21. > :55:26.one year on is another hung parliament and which government
:55:27. > :55:30.results from that depends on the mathematical specifics of whether
:55:31. > :55:33.the Tories can do a deal as well as Labour, leaving everything in the
:55:34. > :55:37.hands of Nick Clegg or whether one party can do a straightforward deal
:55:38. > :55:43.but I do not detect any sense of exuberance or confidence in either
:55:44. > :55:47.camp. And the Tories are still shooting themselves over losing the
:55:48. > :55:50.boundary commission reforms because that was going to net them 20 seats
:55:51. > :55:54.and they lost that because they messed up the House of Lords reform
:55:55. > :55:58.and there are still furious with themselves. The former US President,
:55:59. > :56:01.George W Bush, has been a busy boy and here at the Sunday Politics we
:56:02. > :56:03.thought you'd like to see the results of his artistic endeavours.
:56:04. > :56:51.Time for the gallery. I was a prize to find myself saying,
:56:52. > :56:59.some of these are not bad! -- surprised. Vladimir Putin? I like
:57:00. > :57:04.the one of Tony Blair but his early ones of dogs, to be in the presence
:57:05. > :57:12.of the master is to see his portrait of a Joanne Love. He is not of the
:57:13. > :57:17.Turner prize but I was surprised. He gets the mask of Vladimir Putin,
:57:18. > :57:20.also Tony Blair. I was impressed that he did not allow personal or
:57:21. > :57:27.political grudges to influence his artwork. Jacques Chirac, he comes
:57:28. > :57:30.out of this incredibly well! And Angela Merkel comes out
:57:31. > :57:37.astonishingly well. Quite generous as well. Tony Blair is the best one
:57:38. > :57:41.and the reason is he had the closest relationship with them and he has
:57:42. > :57:46.talked about this portrait, saying he was quite fond of him and you can
:57:47. > :57:50.see that. These are awful, they would not get you an A-level but you
:57:51. > :57:59.must admire him to have the guts to do this, and display them publicly!
:58:00. > :58:05.An A-level? Just doing joined up numbers gets you that these days!
:58:06. > :58:08.What do you do when you retire? This is less embarrassing than some of
:58:09. > :58:15.the other things people have done. As good as Churchill? I don't
:58:16. > :58:20.know... No! Churchill was brilliant! And on that! That's all for today.
:58:21. > :58:23.Tune into BBC Two every day at lunchtime this week for the Daily
:58:24. > :58:27.Politics. And we'll be back at the later time of 2:30pm next Sunday
:58:28. > :58:28.after the London Marathon. Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday
:58:29. > :58:35.Politics.