:00:35. > :00:38.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking
:00:39. > :00:47.about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.
:00:48. > :00:50.The European elections. There are local elections across England too
:00:51. > :00:54.on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.
:00:55. > :01:01.The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be
:01:02. > :01:04.speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has
:01:05. > :01:07.the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or
:01:08. > :01:14.will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't
:01:15. > :01:18.mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this
:01:19. > :01:28.man, Nigel Farage. I'll be asking him if UKIP really is fit for prime
:01:29. > :01:30.time? We are looking at the elections in the capital's 32
:01:31. > :01:38.boroughs. What will make a difference to the way you vote?
:01:39. > :01:43.And I'm joined by three journalists guaranteed to bring a touch of
:01:44. > :01:46.Eurovision glamour to your Sunday morning. With views more
:01:47. > :01:49.controversial than a bearded Austrian drag act and twice the
:01:50. > :01:59.dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might
:02:00. > :02:01.have thought you've already heard David Cameron promise an in-out
:02:02. > :02:08.referendum on EU membership in 2017 if he's still Prime Minister. Many
:02:09. > :02:11.times. Many, many times. Well he obviously doesn't think you've been
:02:12. > :02:15.listening, because he's been saying it again today. Here he is speaking
:02:16. > :02:19.to the BBC earlier. We will hold a referendum by the end of 2017. It
:02:20. > :02:23.will be a referendum on an in-out basis. Do we stay in a reformed
:02:24. > :02:26.European Union or do we leave? And I've said very clearly that whatever
:02:27. > :02:29.the outcome of the next election, and of course I want an overall
:02:30. > :02:32.majority and I'm hoping and believing I can win an overall
:02:33. > :02:35.majority, that people should be in no doubt I will not become Prime
:02:36. > :02:46.Minister unless I can guarantee that we will hold a referendum. Here's
:02:47. > :02:50.saying there that an overall majority there will definitely be a
:02:51. > :02:53.referendum. If these are the minority position, he won't form a
:02:54. > :02:59.new coalition unless they agree to a referendum, too. The Lib Dems a
:03:00. > :03:01.pulmonary agree to that. They probably will because the Prime
:03:02. > :03:06.ministers have a strong argument which is I gave you a referendum
:03:07. > :03:09.back in 2010 so the least I need is theirs and the Lib Dems are the only
:03:10. > :03:13.party who have stood in recent elections on a clear mandate to hold
:03:14. > :03:16.a referendum, so it is difficult for them to say no, there was
:03:17. > :03:21.interesting the interview he did earlier today. He named everything
:03:22. > :03:26.was going to ask for. The most controversial with him, as he said
:03:27. > :03:31.in his speech last year, he wants to take Britain out of the commitment
:03:32. > :03:36.to make the European Union and ever closer union. That is a very big
:03:37. > :03:39.ask, but the point is, he may well get it because the choice for the
:03:40. > :03:45.European Union now, France and Germany, is a clear wonderful do
:03:46. > :03:49.Britain in or out? Previously, it was can you put up with a British
:03:50. > :03:52.prime ministers being annoying? I think you'll find the answer is they
:03:53. > :03:57.are willing to pay a price but not any price to keep Britain in. In
:03:58. > :04:03.this scenario, Labour would have lost the election again because we
:04:04. > :04:06.are talking the slowly happen if Mr Cameron is the largest party or has
:04:07. > :04:11.an overall majority. Could you then see Labour deciding we had better go
:04:12. > :04:13.along with a referendum, too? I think that's unlikely because as I
:04:14. > :04:16.think that's unlikely because there's a huge upside for that for I
:04:17. > :04:20.think what's interesting is the idea he would for minority government.
:04:21. > :04:24.Would you get confidence and look at other options that might well happen
:04:25. > :04:28.with the way the arithmetic is going or is he going to hold out and say
:04:29. > :04:31.the only way I will be Prime Minister is in a majority
:04:32. > :04:37.Conservative government? No, the implication of his remarks was I
:04:38. > :04:41.wouldn't form a coalition government unless my coalition partners would
:04:42. > :04:43.also agree to vote for a referendum. He's basically talking about is
:04:44. > :04:49.negotiating strategy in those coalition talks. It's a red line and
:04:50. > :04:53.a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems, because they know David Cameron
:04:54. > :04:58.absolutely has to do, for accidental reasons, as a person who survives as
:04:59. > :05:02.Tory leader, to ask for that referendum, so they can ask anything
:05:03. > :05:05.they want in return and if I was Nick Clegg, I would work out in the
:05:06. > :05:12.next year one absolute colossal negotiating demand for those
:05:13. > :05:16.coalition talks. For a party around 10% in the polls, they will do have
:05:17. > :05:25.the Prime Minister over a barrel on this one, assuming that coalition
:05:26. > :05:30.talks goes well. They could make Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we
:05:31. > :05:34.need to move on. So, the politicians are out and about on what used to be
:05:35. > :05:37.called the stump ahead of local and European elections in less than two
:05:38. > :05:40.weeks' time. But, without wanting to depress you on a damp Sunday
:05:41. > :05:43.morning, the party strategists are already hard at work on their
:05:44. > :05:46.campaign plans for the General Election next May. Yes, it's less
:05:47. > :05:49.than a year to go. They may have taken their time, but Labour's
:05:50. > :05:52.battleplan for 2015 is starting to take shape. As well as take
:05:53. > :05:55.promising to freeze your energy bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate
:05:56. > :06:00.of tax, Ed Miliband now says he wants to intervene in the housing
:06:01. > :06:03.market to keep rents down. There's even talk that the party leadership
:06:04. > :06:09.wants to bring more railway lines into public ownership. And Labour is
:06:10. > :06:12.gambling that its big push on the cost of living will see it through
:06:13. > :06:15.to the general election despite evidence that growth is firmly back.
:06:16. > :06:21.Labour's campaign chief Douglas Alexander hopes it all adds up to
:06:22. > :06:27.victory next May. But so far, the evidence is hitting home very thin.
:06:28. > :06:32.One survey today shows that 56% of people don't think Mr Miliband is up
:06:33. > :06:34.to the job of Prime Minister. As we head towards one of the least
:06:35. > :06:40.predictable general elections in 70 years, has Labour got a message to
:06:41. > :06:42.win seats up and down the country? And Labour's election co-ordinator
:06:43. > :06:50.and Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander, joins me now.
:06:51. > :06:53.Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of these policies announced polar
:06:54. > :06:58.pretty well. By popular with the country. When you add them together,
:06:59. > :07:03.it's a move to the left and what would be wrong with that? I think is
:07:04. > :07:09.your packet suggests, the contours in the coming campaign are becoming
:07:10. > :07:12.clear. Our judgement is the defining issue of the year in British
:07:13. > :07:15.politics will be the widening gap between the wealth of the country
:07:16. > :07:18.and the finances of ordinary families. We believe it will be a
:07:19. > :07:22.cost of living election and we have been setting out our thinking in
:07:23. > :07:25.relation to energy prices and rent, but you will hear more from Labour
:07:26. > :07:30.Party in the coming months because we're now less than one year away
:07:31. > :07:33.from a decisive moment. If the leftish think tank suggested any of
:07:34. > :07:40.his policies in that Tony Blair years, you would have opposed them.
:07:41. > :07:44.Let's be clear, when not going for an interest but seeking to secure a
:07:45. > :07:48.majority for the only way to do that is not simply to appeal to your
:07:49. > :07:53.base, but to the centre ground. I believe we got genuine opportunities
:07:54. > :07:57.in the next year. You have the Conservatives in a struggle with
:07:58. > :08:01.UKIP on the right of politics. The Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their
:08:02. > :08:04.base, and there's a genuine opportunity in the next year for
:08:05. > :08:08.Labour to dominate the centre ground of politics and secure the majority
:08:09. > :08:12.Labour government we are planning for in the coming year. I notice you
:08:13. > :08:23.didn't deny you wouldn't have opposed. You say you have got an
:08:24. > :08:29.message for aspirational voters in the South. This is what John Denham
:08:30. > :08:38.said. He thinks you're talking too much to your core vote.
:08:39. > :08:47.He is right to recognise we took a terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If
:08:48. > :08:52.you look at what we've done in the last week, for example, the
:08:53. > :08:54.signature policy on rent Ed Miliband announced to launch the campaign,
:08:55. > :08:59.there's now more than 9 million people in the country in the private
:09:00. > :09:03.rented sector, more than 1 million families. Many of them are in the
:09:04. > :09:05.south-east. They are seeing circumstances where, suddenly,
:09:06. > :09:10.landlord will increase the rent and they put the pressure involved in
:09:11. > :09:15.schooling, health care facing the families, so it is important both in
:09:16. > :09:18.terms of policy and in terms of politics that we speak to the whole
:09:19. > :09:22.country, not simply to one part of it falls up what is the average rise
:09:23. > :09:31.in event last year? I don't know. Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real
:09:32. > :09:37.terms. I'm not sure what the problem is. It will happen to wages in last
:09:38. > :09:43.year, we are facing circumstances where people will be worse off, up
:09:44. > :09:48.to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if our opponents want to argue that the
:09:49. > :09:52.economy has healed and they deserve a victory lap, good luck to them
:09:53. > :09:57.because actually, what we are hearing from the Buddhist public,
:09:58. > :10:01.not just in the north and south, is not the cost living crisis is
:10:02. > :10:04.continuing and it affects families. There was nothing aspirational about
:10:05. > :10:09.your party election broadcast for the European elections. It looked
:10:10. > :10:14.like crude class war to money people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom
:10:15. > :10:17.tax. Isn't it going to look bad that two thirds of those affected are
:10:18. > :10:24.disabled? Who cares? They can't fight back. Shall be lay-offs and
:10:25. > :10:38.NHS nurses? The National Health Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who
:10:39. > :10:42.said that? Me. My gosh. The man has shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What
:10:43. > :10:49.shall we do with him? Can we hunt him? Nothing about Europe, Labour
:10:50. > :10:54.policy. News that the Tories would result in negative campaigning and
:10:55. > :10:58.smear. You didn't tell you would be just as bad. Let's start the party
:10:59. > :11:04.broadcast. The one thing guaranteed to have most people reaching for the
:11:05. > :11:09.remote control these days are the words, there now follows a party but
:11:10. > :11:14.the broadcast. I make no apology in the factory to be innovative in how
:11:15. > :11:17.we presented. It's factual. It was a policy -based critic of this
:11:18. > :11:22.government. And the Lib Dems role within it. So you're claiming it's
:11:23. > :11:30.factual to betray the camera and cabinet is not even knowing what the
:11:31. > :11:34.NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They attack the disabled because they
:11:35. > :11:39.can't fight back. The Pinellas Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun
:11:40. > :11:46.and he was treated during a short life by the NHS. It's a fact many
:11:47. > :11:49.disabled people across the country including in my constituency have
:11:50. > :11:52.been directly affected by the bedroom tax. And ultimately, this
:11:53. > :11:57.Conservative led government, including the Lib Dems, will be held
:11:58. > :12:01.accountable by the politicians. You say that, the Prime Minister, who
:12:02. > :12:06.had a severely disabled son of. I you not ashamed about? I shadowed
:12:07. > :12:12.Iain Duncan Smith of five months also they don't have the excuses of
:12:13. > :12:15.seeing that saying nobody told them the consequences of the bedroom tax.
:12:16. > :12:20.They went into this with their eyes open. They knew about the hardship
:12:21. > :12:22.and difficulty. If they were one-bedroom properties available
:12:23. > :12:27.across the country for people to move into, their argument would be
:12:28. > :12:32.OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people. Did
:12:33. > :12:38.you sign off that part of the broadcast? Of course I stand by the
:12:39. > :12:42.fact of it. I wish David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to
:12:43. > :12:46.the disabled people of the country and the poorest people for the
:12:47. > :12:52.effects of the bedroom tax. I hope we get that apology between now and
:12:53. > :12:57.election. As someone who thinks integrity is important in politics,
:12:58. > :13:00.not ashamed of this kind of thing? It's important we scrutinise the
:13:01. > :13:07.policies of this government as well as adding a positive agenda for
:13:08. > :13:12.change. You want that you won't promise this is the last time we'll
:13:13. > :13:14.see such a negative press campaign? I don't think it is negative or
:13:15. > :13:19.personal to scrutinise the government. So we'll get more of
:13:20. > :13:25.this? I'm less interested in the background of the cabinet than their
:13:26. > :13:29.views. You call the upper-class twits. It's for the British public
:13:30. > :13:33.to make a judgement in terms of the British... That's how you depicted
:13:34. > :13:40.them. We are held in accountable for the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation,
:13:41. > :13:43.and our record they have to defend. One reason are so fearful in this
:13:44. > :13:48.election is actually because they know they have a poor record. Let's
:13:49. > :13:55.look at other part of the election campaign. This poster. Particularly
:13:56. > :14:02.digitally doing the rounds. On that shopping basket, can you tell us
:14:03. > :14:05.which items take the full 20% VAT? It's representative of household
:14:06. > :14:09.shopping, which includes items like cleaning products, and we know that
:14:10. > :14:25.food is not that trouble. People don't go to the supermarket and say
:14:26. > :14:29.this is -- vatable. So you are denying that ?450 extra is being
:14:30. > :14:37.paid? Yes, where'd you get that figure? For an average family to pay
:14:38. > :14:45.?450 a year extra VAT, they would have to spend ?21,600 a year on
:14:46. > :14:49.vatable products at 20%. The average take-home pay is only 21,009. They
:14:50. > :14:54.have got to spend on all sorts of things which are zero VAT. So in
:14:55. > :15:01.addition to the items, has a range of products people face in terms of
:15:02. > :15:08.VAT. How could an average family of ?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the
:15:09. > :15:16.pound a year on 20% vatable items? It's not an annual figure, is it? So
:15:17. > :15:21.what is it then? If it's an annual, what is it? The increased VAT in
:15:22. > :15:27.this parliament is calculated over the course of a Parliament. For the
:15:28. > :15:34.whole of the Parliament? And you're illustrated this with a shopping
:15:35. > :15:38.basket which almost has no VAT on it at all? People will be buying a
:15:39. > :15:43.weekly shop in the course of this Parliament every week. Did you sign
:15:44. > :15:47.off on this as well? Of course. It didn't dawn on you you're putting
:15:48. > :15:52.things on it which have no VAT? If you want to argue some people go to
:15:53. > :16:01.the shops and say these are vatable or not, I disagree. Even your rent
:16:02. > :16:04.cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it
:16:05. > :16:14.turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception
:16:15. > :16:18.rather than the rule to have the position we have at the moment. In
:16:19. > :16:22.Northern Ireland we have seen the continued rise in terms of the
:16:23. > :16:29.rented sector but there is a widespread recognition that for
:16:30. > :16:34.those people in the rented sector, change is necessary. Are you
:16:35. > :16:45.coordinating this campaign? It seems accident prone. This is a party that
:16:46. > :16:48.has set the agenda more effectively than a Conservative party that said
:16:49. > :16:57.when David Cameron was elected he wasn't going to bang on about
:16:58. > :17:03.Europe. The day after the election we expect the Conservative party to
:17:04. > :17:07.be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of what we talk about and I think there
:17:08. > :17:12.is a clear contrast about a party talking about issues people care
:17:13. > :17:17.about, and a Conservative party talking about exclusively a
:17:18. > :17:24.referendum. Are you in charge of the campaign? I am coordinating the
:17:25. > :17:30.campaign is, yes. The expensive election guru you have hired, has he
:17:31. > :17:35.been involved in any of this? We have started our discussions with
:17:36. > :17:39.him. You are going to have to brief him about British politics because
:17:40. > :17:46.he doesn't know anything about it. I make no apology for hiring him. He
:17:47. > :17:51.has a lot of experience in winning tight elections and that is what we
:17:52. > :17:57.are expecting. If you are expecting us to say, they have passed and we
:17:58. > :18:04.have to hold them accountable, then I am sorry but we have a campaign
:18:05. > :18:13.that holds the Government and the Conservatives to account for what I
:18:14. > :18:18.think is a very hopeless record in government. Thank you.
:18:19. > :18:22.He leads a party with zero MPs but his media presence is huge. He's had
:18:23. > :18:24.an expenses scandal, but the public didn't seem to mind. He's got a
:18:25. > :18:27.privileged background but he's seen as an anti-establishment champion.
:18:28. > :18:31.Nothing seems to stick to him, not even eggs. I speak of course of
:18:32. > :18:34.Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a moment, but first Giles has been out
:18:35. > :18:37.on the campaign trail ahead of elections that could make or break
:18:38. > :18:40.the UKIP leader. Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at
:18:41. > :18:44.this stage of the Euro and local election campaign he is, like his
:18:45. > :18:48.party, in buoyant mood. They feel they are on the verge of what they
:18:49. > :18:53.see as causing an earthquake in British politics. Today Nigel is
:18:54. > :19:03.filling thousands seat venues and bigger. Not that there's much sign
:19:04. > :19:06.of that at this press launch. But it's a threat with serious money
:19:07. > :19:09.behind it, that they believe the media and the political elite just
:19:10. > :19:12.haven't realised yet, much less learned how to counter it. Not that
:19:13. > :19:14.it's all been plain sailing. Offensive comments from some
:19:15. > :19:17.candidates has not only seen UKIP labelled as racist, but necessitated
:19:18. > :19:25.a rally by the party to visibly and verbally challenge that. The
:19:26. > :19:27.offensive idiotic statements made by this handful of people have been
:19:28. > :19:32.lifted up and presented to the great British public as if they represent
:19:33. > :19:35.the view of this party, which they do not. They never have and they
:19:36. > :19:51.never will. APPLAUSE I don't care what you call us, but
:19:52. > :20:02.from this moment on, please do not call must trust a racist party. We
:20:03. > :20:05.are not a racist party. The need to say that is not just
:20:06. > :20:08.about the European and local elections even at that campaign
:20:09. > :20:11.launch it's clear UKIP's leader has set his sights firmly on the
:20:12. > :20:13.ultimate prize. I come from the south of England and I would not
:20:14. > :20:18.want to be seen as an opportunist heading to the north, north Norfolk
:20:19. > :20:24.or whatever it will be. I will make my mind up and stand in the general
:20:25. > :20:29.election for somewhere in Kent, East Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my
:20:30. > :20:38.home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are still drilling down how the last
:20:39. > :20:41.fortnight of campaigning should go. They aren't taking any chances, and
:20:42. > :20:44.one imagines having offices above those of Max Clifford is a reminder
:20:45. > :20:48.how fragile built reputations can be of the bubble bursting. They want
:20:49. > :20:50.their reputation to be built on votes and they know anything but
:20:51. > :20:58.significant success on May 22nd and some seats in Westminster in 2015
:20:59. > :21:01.isn't going to be good enough. And after that, having sold yourselves
:21:02. > :21:05.as the honest outsiders, that stance is harder to maintain once your
:21:06. > :21:11.people are on the inside. And subtle changes from the past are already
:21:12. > :21:13.noticeable. The ordinary man of the people stance is still working.
:21:14. > :21:20.Characteristically outside a pub, Nigel Farage is glad handed by a
:21:21. > :21:25.customer. Two weeks to go, let's cause an upset. Wouldn't that be
:21:26. > :21:28.great? The only sign that such an interaction is different now is the
:21:29. > :21:40.ever presence of bodyguards who shadow his every move. Over lunch
:21:41. > :21:43.ahead of Question Time, a radio appearance, and then off to
:21:44. > :21:47.Scotland, I ask him if some of those minded to vote UKIP who see him as a
:21:48. > :21:50.man they'd be comfortable having a drink with are the sort of people
:21:51. > :21:52.he'd be entirely comfortable sitting down with. Every political party
:21:53. > :21:55.attracts support from across the spectrum and there will be some
:21:56. > :22:03.magnificent people who vote for us and some ne'er-do-wells. The one
:22:04. > :22:09.common thing about UKIP voters is that they are often not very
:22:10. > :22:13.political. And it's that people's army that if UKIP can get to a
:22:14. > :22:18.polling booth might just create that earthquake they want.
:22:19. > :22:22.Nigel Farage joins me now. When you decided not to stand at the new work
:22:23. > :22:29.by election coming said if you lost it that the bubble would have
:22:30. > :22:48.burst. What did you mean by that? I was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm
:22:49. > :22:54.if I would stand, I have decided by the next morning that I would not. I
:22:55. > :22:58.didn't know he was going to resign. You claim only a handful of UKIP
:22:59. > :23:05.candidates have ever said things that are either stupid or offensive,
:23:06. > :23:11.I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd rather it was non-. But why have you
:23:12. > :23:15.chosen a candidate to fight this by-election that has said many
:23:16. > :23:21.things most people would regard as stupid or offensive? Roger is
:23:22. > :23:27.fighting this for us, someone of 70 years of age who grew up with a
:23:28. > :23:32.strong Christian Bible background, in an age when homosexuality was
:23:33. > :23:36.imprisonable. He had a certain set of views which he maintained for
:23:37. > :23:42.many years which he now says he accepts the world has moved on and
:23:43. > :23:47.he is relaxed about it. The comments about homosexuality are not from the
:23:48. > :23:53.dark ages, they are from two or three years ago. From when he was a
:23:54. > :23:58.Conservative, yes, so will you be asking David Cameron that question?
:23:59. > :24:05.I have never seen a single comment from Roger that would be deemed to
:24:06. > :24:10.be offensive. Do you regard his comments on homosexuality as
:24:11. > :24:15.offensive? When he grew up, homosexuality was illegal in this
:24:16. > :24:26.country. But this was in 2012 but he said that. Most people have his age
:24:27. > :24:33.still feel uncomfortable about it -- of his age. In 2012 he said, if two
:24:34. > :24:39.men can be married, why not three, why not a commune. Many people in
:24:40. > :24:44.this country are disconcerted by the change in the meaning of marriage
:24:45. > :24:48.and in a tolerant society we understand that some people have
:24:49. > :24:53.different views. But he has changed his views now in only two years? He
:24:54. > :25:04.says he is more relaxed about it. Was he your candidate? He is a
:25:05. > :25:09.first-class campaigner who has had 30 years in industry, he served in
:25:10. > :25:13.the European Parliament, he is a good candidate. This morning's
:25:14. > :25:18.papers suggest you are about to select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby,
:25:19. > :25:23.but she is on camera saying that, of immigrants, I just want to send a
:25:24. > :25:27.lot back. This is all very interesting, and we can talk about
:25:28. > :25:32.it, all we could talk about the fact that in 12 days we have a European
:25:33. > :25:38.election and every voter across the UK can vote on it and it is really
:25:39. > :25:47.interesting. Are you happy to pick a candidate that says of immigrants, I
:25:48. > :25:51.just want to send a lot back? I have seen the tape, it is a complete
:25:52. > :25:59.misquote and she says it in the context of illegal immigrants. I
:26:00. > :26:02.have seen the full quote and in the context it is not about illegal
:26:03. > :26:07.immigrants. Let's come onto the European campaign, you have used a
:26:08. > :26:12.company that employs Eastern European is to deliver leaflets in
:26:13. > :26:18.London and the Home Counties. Have we? I'm told that in Croydon one
:26:19. > :26:24.branch might have done that. Have you found some indigenous Brits to
:26:25. > :26:28.deliver leaflets in Europe? We have thousands joining the party every
:26:29. > :26:31.month and they are not all indigenous because what is
:26:32. > :26:47.interesting is that in today's opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib
:26:48. > :26:57.Dems and the Conservatives amongst the indigenous voting.
:26:58. > :27:04.We have not agreed a manifesto for the general election, we will do
:27:05. > :27:11.over the course of the summer. This is in your local election. We are
:27:12. > :27:14.having local elections in some part of the country but we are fighting a
:27:15. > :27:19.European election. It is impossible with the British media to have an
:27:20. > :27:25.intelligent debate on the European question. But as I say, we are also
:27:26. > :27:32.fighting the local elections too. You have promised these tax cuts,
:27:33. > :27:37.how much will they cost? I have met -- read the local election manifesto
:27:38. > :27:41.and it doesn't make those promises. We do talk about local services, we
:27:42. > :27:49.do talk about the need to keep council tax down but we don't talk
:27:50. > :27:53.about income tax. Absolutely not. In local election campaigning you say
:27:54. > :27:59.you would restore cuts to policing, double prison places, restore cuts
:28:00. > :28:06.to front line NHS, spend more on roads, how much would that cost? You
:28:07. > :28:11.are obviously reading different documents to me. We are voting for
:28:12. > :28:18.local councillors in district councils who have got little local
:28:19. > :28:24.budgets. Every party in a manifesto puts his aspirations in it. Have you
:28:25. > :28:30.read it? Of course I have, cover to cover, which is why I'm saying you
:28:31. > :28:37.are misquoting it. By the way, on the bubble bursting, you told that
:28:38. > :28:42.to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of British laws are now made in the
:28:43. > :28:47.European Union. Now AstraZeneca is potentially going to be taken over
:28:48. > :28:52.by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to show the public that that decision
:28:53. > :28:56.cannot be taken here but by an elected European commissioner, and
:28:57. > :29:10.we sit and argue about what is in or not in the local election manifesto.
:29:11. > :29:13.It is my job, but let me come on to AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a
:29:14. > :29:25.British government should stop the takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot.
:29:26. > :29:30.Can we please get this clear. I sat next to Chuka Umunna the other day
:29:31. > :29:35.at question time and he said what could and couldn't be done. He said
:29:36. > :29:39.I am being studiously neutral, and the reason is we don't have this
:29:40. > :29:45.power. That is what the European elections is about. Should France
:29:46. > :30:03.have the takeover of the food company Danan? We seem to do things
:30:04. > :30:07.to the Nth degree and nobody else does, perhaps because we have this
:30:08. > :30:16.culture and we obey it. In your view, you don't think Pfizer should
:30:17. > :30:20.be able to take over AstraZeneca? There is some good science within
:30:21. > :30:27.AstraZeneca which is in danger of being asset stripped and lost.
:30:28. > :30:32.Because it is run by a Swede and a Frenchman and most of its employees
:30:33. > :30:37.are overseas. I understand that but there are still some good science
:30:38. > :30:40.being produced here. What did you think of the Prime Minister saying
:30:41. > :30:46.he would not form a government after the election unless he was able to
:30:47. > :30:53.have a referendum in 2017? I sat here talking to you and you said to
:30:54. > :30:57.me that David Cameron had given a cast-iron guarantee that if David
:30:58. > :31:01.Cameron becomes Prime Minister he will have a referendum on the Lisbon
:31:02. > :31:06.Treaty, but he didn't deliver on that. He knows that people struggle
:31:07. > :31:12.to believe the renegotiation is worth a row of beans. He is saying
:31:13. > :31:16.he will not form a government unless he can go forward with the
:31:17. > :31:19.referendum. I know he is desperately trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic
:31:20. > :31:24.whilst at the same time saying he will campaign for Britain to remain
:31:25. > :31:28.in. In a sense, that is what this election is about. We have three
:31:29. > :31:31.traditional parties, all of whom passionately believe in the
:31:32. > :31:35.continued membership of the European Union and we have UKIP saying we
:31:36. > :31:41.want trade and cooperation but there is a bigger and better world out
:31:42. > :31:52.there. You are now travelling with I think four bodyguards, has this
:31:53. > :31:56.affected you and your family life? I can't stand it. I've always wondered
:31:57. > :32:00.about the place and on my own thing. Sadly we have a couple of
:32:01. > :32:03.organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who
:32:04. > :32:08.purport to be against fascism and extremism, who received funding from
:32:09. > :32:12.the Department of communities, from the trade unions, who have acted in
:32:13. > :32:17.a violent wait more than once. You are saying the Labour Party is
:32:18. > :32:21.behind the threats? No, I said a taxpayer funded, trade union funded
:32:22. > :32:24.and headed by senior Labour Party figures, and I'm happy for them to
:32:25. > :32:28.come to my meetings and have an itinerant with me, but it's not so
:32:29. > :32:34.much fun when there are banging you over the head. I is still keen to be
:32:35. > :32:39.an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do is target before the general
:32:40. > :32:44.election next year for the one life be easier if you just went to the
:32:45. > :32:48.Lords? That's the last thing I want to do. There's an awful lot to do.
:32:49. > :32:52.Most of all, I will not rest until we are free from political union and
:32:53. > :32:55.government from Brussels. Nigel Farage, thank you for being with us.
:32:56. > :32:58.It's just gone 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say
:32:59. > :33:01.goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics
:33:02. > :33:04.Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, our panel talks about the
:33:05. > :33:05.big stories of the week. First though, the Sunday Politics where
:33:06. > :33:20.you are. Welcome. This is a Gaelic at the
:33:21. > :33:24.election is happening in London's 32 boroughs in just under a fortnight.
:33:25. > :33:40.Here to protect our representatives of the three main parties.
:33:41. > :33:47.Welcome to you all are. Before we get going, here is Kate Ford to set
:33:48. > :33:51.the scene in London. The last council elections in London took
:33:52. > :33:54.place on the same day as the general election when the capital's
:33:55. > :33:58.political map turned red. Despite much of a capital being run by
:33:59. > :34:00.Labour town halls, in many ways, it's been the Coalition
:34:01. > :34:06.Government's decisions which have been the big news in the last four
:34:07. > :34:08.years. The last four years of London government have been characterised
:34:09. > :34:13.for the borough by pretty well continuous cuts. The London boroughs
:34:14. > :34:18.have faced some of the deepest cuts in the country and this has given
:34:19. > :34:24.them an accumulated need radically to reduce spending. On average,
:34:25. > :34:31.London council budgets are being cut by 25% in the last four years,
:34:32. > :34:35.rising to 44% cut by 2016. We are going to see the impact of what will
:34:36. > :34:39.by then be six or seven or eight years of continuous reductions in
:34:40. > :34:44.spending. That risks people beginning to notice that the
:34:45. > :34:50.potholes really are bad or the general condition of council offices
:34:51. > :34:54.and buildings is not as good as it once was or care for the elderly is
:34:55. > :34:58.now reduced to an absolute bare minimum or libraries do close in
:34:59. > :35:03.numbers. All of those things may begin to occur in the next four
:35:04. > :35:07.years. While all parties go into the election telling you about how they
:35:08. > :35:10.have managed to protect services in the face of austerity, what they
:35:11. > :35:15.will be less keen to talk about is the popular services they may have
:35:16. > :35:22.to cut should they win the poll. Kate Ford reporting. Kick this off
:35:23. > :35:28.for us, tell us what these elections mean and what Conservatives are
:35:29. > :35:33.saying. We are saying we are a party with a clear plan of action
:35:34. > :35:37.nationally and locally. Therefore, nationally, we working coalition to
:35:38. > :35:40.reduce the deficit because that was necessary. We inherited a huge
:35:41. > :35:44.deficit, getting the economy back on track in the same way, locally, we
:35:45. > :35:50.have worked hard to make sure we protect front line services. In my
:35:51. > :35:55.borough, for example, we have capped -- catchable library is open because
:35:56. > :36:00.wouldn't joint working. -- capped local library is open. -- capped
:36:01. > :36:15.local libraries open. Council tax frozen but found
:36:16. > :36:19.services many councils haven't. Affordable housing, keeping one
:36:20. > :36:23.o'clock club is open, provide the services local residents feel if
:36:24. > :36:28.they're going to address the crisis, and the challenge in the report is a
:36:29. > :36:33.challenge over the next period, 44% cut as a consequence of the policies
:36:34. > :36:38.of the Conservatives. It's going to be tough and in 12 days came, it's
:36:39. > :36:47.important people bear that in mind. -- 12 days' time. The situation will
:36:48. > :36:53.be the same for whichever way you vote. Why, when we see the Lib Dems
:36:54. > :37:01.suffering apparently in the national polls, will people continue to vote
:37:02. > :37:05.locally for you? We have a strong local history. If you look at
:37:06. > :37:10.Saturn, which has been leading on business, working with local
:37:11. > :37:16.businesses, creating jobs, -- Sutton, Kingston, which makes sure
:37:17. > :37:21.despite a young population, they had school places, work with communities
:37:22. > :37:26.to make sure there was the free school agenda, it wasn't a random
:37:27. > :37:29.one, but actually is providing places where they are needed and
:37:30. > :37:34.when they are needed, when you look at the Lib Dem boroughs, we haven't
:37:35. > :37:39.cut a single library. It can't be said of Brent, Haringey. It is
:37:40. > :37:43.really behind on its housing maintenance. We are hearing
:37:44. > :37:47.complaints about Labour councils on their ability to management. And
:37:48. > :37:50.frankly, some of the Conservative councils have not been good on
:37:51. > :37:57.school places. What we haven't been hearing from Labour is that this is
:37:58. > :38:02.a really bad time for local government. It looks like councils
:38:03. > :38:11.have been able to manage. Sutton and Kingston, zero affordable housing.
:38:12. > :38:15.Kingston, tender. Kingston has identified a site and put together a
:38:16. > :38:25.site where it will build 2000 homes. That is key. It has made a huge...
:38:26. > :38:32.Too much income? The important thing is... Its flagship. We will see how
:38:33. > :38:39.much you win. You are right to remind me things have been tough for
:38:40. > :38:44.all councils. The issue is which of the councils have managed to
:38:45. > :38:51.withstand the huge cuts made by their parties in Westminster, not
:38:52. > :38:54.only... Everybody has managed... Let me continue. The challenge in the
:38:55. > :39:00.report is the toughest times I get to come and which councillor, which
:39:01. > :39:04.party do you think will be better on your side when the cuts bear down
:39:05. > :39:10.rather than just looking after the few? I notice you don't measure
:39:11. > :39:19.levels of council tax across London. We charge less. Whether Conservative
:39:20. > :39:24.Maher, of course, we have a real terms cut in council tax as well.
:39:25. > :39:29.But you offer a bribe... It's what the government should help people in
:39:30. > :39:32.a practical way to keep council tax down. Good councils, look at
:39:33. > :39:39.Westminster, Kensington and Chelsea, working together saving ?40 million
:39:40. > :39:43.through the joint service working, planning for the future. That's the
:39:44. > :39:47.long-term planning and how you cope with a different levels of spending
:39:48. > :39:56.in the future. The House of Commons library has done some research and
:39:57. > :40:01.average council tax... Here he goes. You use the old figure. The House of
:40:02. > :40:10.Commons library shows Conservative councils charge ?1400 more than
:40:11. > :40:16.Labour councils. Independent experts say it's a discredited figure. Here
:40:17. > :40:25.he goes. If you compare and D with band D. What a slander on the
:40:26. > :40:30.library. Your figure is discredited. I was just trying to say, I think
:40:31. > :40:34.across the country, ironically, this last year, only Lib Dem majority one
:40:35. > :40:39.councils were the only one who absolutely 100% froze council tax. I
:40:40. > :40:45.thought that was an interesting statistic. The complexities of
:40:46. > :40:50.council tax, he doesn't actually understand how that works because
:40:51. > :40:55.the level of grant... Council tax is only one fifth of what the income
:40:56. > :41:01.is, such a narrow part. On the bigger picture, what were the Lib
:41:02. > :41:05.Dems offer to face this challenge, particularly elderly social care?
:41:06. > :41:11.You have contributed to a very tough financial position, the money is not
:41:12. > :41:15.increasing. But the demand is. If you look at where we have councils,
:41:16. > :41:20.Kingston and Sutton, really protecting services for the
:41:21. > :41:24.vulnerable, Kingston, protecting the small voluntary charities which do
:41:25. > :41:29.so much faster than putting them on a competitive basis, giving them
:41:30. > :41:32.systems necessary for them to be able to function within their
:41:33. > :41:38.communities. There are effective ways you can do this, but it takes
:41:39. > :41:42.that kind of skill and competence. On the politics, I accept you might
:41:43. > :41:46.lose a few councils. Governing parties invariably come under
:41:47. > :41:50.pressure when you are mid-term or partway through the term. It's
:41:51. > :41:53.difficult to call because of the difference in the turnout from last
:41:54. > :41:59.time, when it was on the same day as the general election. Susan 's party
:42:00. > :42:04.has lost seats, but we know it varies from place to place. UKIP is
:42:05. > :42:08.a new factor servers more variables. I think we have got a good local
:42:09. > :42:13.record in our Conservative councils and we will be fighting hard on
:42:14. > :42:20.that. I think some places we may find themselves with surprise
:42:21. > :42:26.people. I think you'll find... Which councils will you win? You may find
:42:27. > :42:32.some surprises, I said. You could be disappointed when you don't win
:42:33. > :42:35.Redbridge, Croydon, Murton. You will be disappointed that make those
:42:36. > :42:42.games. What is right to remind your viewers is the last ten was 60%
:42:43. > :42:46.versus 36%. We want to win as many seats as they possibly can. The
:42:47. > :42:53.borough we are targeting, we want to keep the 15 we won in 2010 from the
:42:54. > :42:59.Conservative Party, by the way. I was in Enfield yesterday trying to
:43:00. > :43:03.keep them. We are trying to win further councils as well for them it
:43:04. > :43:05.would be great if we could win Redbridge full sun is great for
:43:06. > :43:11.those people to have a decent... Susan, in the time you got left, do
:43:12. > :43:14.you accept it would be a good result and he managed to hold onto Sutton?
:43:15. > :43:18.I think we will hold the ones we have, but even more than that,
:43:19. > :43:23.what's been really good if they have a new generation of Lib Dems coming
:43:24. > :43:26.through, people deeply headed in the community, and I think you will see
:43:27. > :43:33.that all over the place that we start to see them come through
:43:34. > :43:37.because they're getting recognised, and we have some spectacular people
:43:38. > :43:40.coming through. Are people going to vote for you when they know you have
:43:41. > :43:43.made no bones about it, the cuts will continue to fall
:43:44. > :43:48.disproportionately on local government? I think we understand
:43:49. > :43:53.that we are picking up the huge mess that we inherited from Labour. And
:43:54. > :43:59.that is not a problem and we have been upfront about it. We need to
:44:00. > :44:02.reduce public spending to get the economy back contracts. They are
:44:03. > :44:05.seeing the economy come right now and that makes a big difference to
:44:06. > :44:10.people. They know, because we have been honest there, we are honest
:44:11. > :44:16.about other things. Thank you very much to all three of you. As one of
:44:17. > :44:19.the Council contest in four boroughs, this also may run
:44:20. > :44:23.elections including in Tower Hamlets. It's been the subject of
:44:24. > :44:25.recent claims of course by BBC panorama strongly disputed by the
:44:26. > :44:32.current Maher that council grants have been disbursed for political
:44:33. > :44:40.gain -- Mayor. It's pitting labour gain some unused in one of its own.
:44:41. > :44:43.This is the Mayor Tower Hamlets. The only leader of a London council who
:44:44. > :44:48.doesn't belong to one of the major parties. But that's not how we
:44:49. > :44:53.wanted to be. Back in 2010, the local Labour Party selected him to
:44:54. > :44:56.be their candidate for the newly created post of directly elected
:44:57. > :45:00.Mayor of the National party wasn't having it. They deselected him
:45:01. > :45:05.saying they had serious concerns about his conduct and what they
:45:06. > :45:11.called the eligibility of participating voters. Unperturbed,
:45:12. > :45:16.he ran as an independent. He won convincingly with help of strong
:45:17. > :45:18.support from Tower Hamlets's Bangladeshi community who outnumber
:45:19. > :45:23.white British people in the borough. Labour came second. For years on,
:45:24. > :45:32.campaigning for this year 's election is this man, campaigning in
:45:33. > :45:39.more than one language. According to the Lib Dems, the elected are being
:45:40. > :45:44.asked to picture the Labour Party and the breakaway called Tower
:45:45. > :45:50.Hamlets first. The split splinter group of the Labour Party call the
:45:51. > :45:53.Labour MPs in the House of Commons their colleagues and brothers and
:45:54. > :45:58.sisters. So, clearly, that's what is happening. Maybe there's
:45:59. > :46:00.characteristics the local Labour Party that somehow put people 's
:46:01. > :46:10.backs up but whatever the reason is, they are not able to deliver for
:46:11. > :46:15.the people of Tower Hamlets. The Labour candidate for mayor is John
:46:16. > :46:19.Biggs. The fact that Ed Miliband has come to Tower Hamlets tells you how
:46:20. > :46:23.seriously Labour are taking this election but it's also interesting
:46:24. > :46:29.he decided to come to Brick Lane, which is the heart the Bangladeshi
:46:30. > :46:34.community and where Rahman is strongest. Labour want to get across
:46:35. > :46:41.the message that the difference between them and Mr Rahman is this.
:46:42. > :46:45.Mr Rahman will tell you who lives by Labour values but he is too much of
:46:46. > :46:50.a separatist, not part of the mainstream any more. We offer a very
:46:51. > :46:56.real choice which is about a leadership broadly based in the
:46:57. > :47:01.borough which will take it forwards at a time of enormous change and
:47:02. > :47:04.pressure. Similar language is also used by the Conservative candidate
:47:05. > :47:13.when asked who he preferred between Rahman and Biggs. Ideally it would
:47:14. > :47:19.be myself, but we want somebody who can get on with the nuts and bolts
:47:20. > :47:25.issues I was talking about. Given that you were saying earlier in this
:47:26. > :47:28.interview that Rahman only place to one community group, when you want
:47:29. > :47:34.them there that place of a whole community you are saying you would
:47:35. > :47:43.rather John Biggs won the election? I think Tower Hamlets needs someone
:47:44. > :48:05.who is open to the whole commune -- the whole community and wants that.
:48:06. > :48:09.Free home care, the only group of people that have continued to
:48:10. > :48:14.deliver free home care and we don't charge for the care that we give to
:48:15. > :48:19.all vulnerable residents in the bucket -- in the community and I'm
:48:20. > :48:28.the only group who will continue with home care. Full list can be
:48:29. > :48:32.found on the council's website. What finally about the other parties
:48:33. > :48:38.seeking to make advances in the capital? On paper it might be argued
:48:39. > :48:43.by some that the Greens seem on the way down while UKIP might be on the
:48:44. > :48:49.way up. In 2006 the Greens had a dozen councillors, now reduced to
:48:50. > :48:52.two. UKIP have been gaining a few councillors in London over recent
:48:53. > :48:57.times but they are all but one people who have defected, crossed
:48:58. > :49:00.over from other parties so they have not been directly elected, the
:49:01. > :49:09.exception being Lawrence Webb who is here now, and Darren Johnson from
:49:10. > :49:17.the Green party is also here. Do you see this as a rivalry here? Are they
:49:18. > :49:24.stealing some of your thunder? Actually at the last elections we
:49:25. > :49:28.came third ahead of the Lib Dems and UKIP, we were the third party in the
:49:29. > :49:33.London assembly elections and I am really confident that we are going
:49:34. > :49:36.to pick up some real votes, particularly in those boroughs where
:49:37. > :49:43.Greens have been working really hard on the ground to win seats. You have
:49:44. > :49:47.had your moments, you had a few councillors in Lewisham and Camden,
:49:48. > :49:53.and whilst they have done well in the London assembly has that
:49:54. > :49:56.translated to something that was promised but didn't happen? The last
:49:57. > :50:00.set of local elections in London was something strange because they were
:50:01. > :50:04.on the same day when the general election got dominated by national
:50:05. > :50:08.issues. This time it is very different, the elections are being
:50:09. > :50:12.fought on local issues and I'm confident we can get some more green
:50:13. > :50:19.councillors elected, particularly on issues like affordable housing.
:50:20. > :50:23.Issues like 20 mph and safer streets, and you need Green
:50:24. > :50:30.councillors even if it is only one or two. UKIP need councillors as
:50:31. > :50:35.well, why do we think this time will be anything different than we have
:50:36. > :50:41.experienced in the past, and UKIP have not been able to make headway?
:50:42. > :50:46.There has been a clear sea change. Ten, 15 years ago, nobody discussed
:50:47. > :50:51.is leaving the European Union but that is on the table as one of the
:50:52. > :50:55.issues. You mentioned the massive budget cuts that all London boroughs
:50:56. > :51:01.are having to take. Our membership fee of the European Union is ?55
:51:02. > :51:07.million per day. That money could have prevented cuts and increased
:51:08. > :51:12.spending. You have failed to say that most of the polling available
:51:13. > :51:15.suggests London doesn't quite share the same levels of scepticism and
:51:16. > :51:21.concern about Europe, which is in the end what will block you from
:51:22. > :51:27.making any meaningful progress. London is a huge area and it varies
:51:28. > :51:32.from across the London boroughs to the outer London boroughs. So you
:51:33. > :51:37.will only make progress in a few pockets like east London? All areas
:51:38. > :51:43.make progress in that way and then it spreads. On the basis of what
:51:44. > :51:49.kind of key policy pledge running services better? People tell me they
:51:50. > :51:54.feel they have been abandoned by the old parties, one of the issues as
:51:55. > :52:06.housing and immigration is a hot topic, but the population is roughly
:52:07. > :52:10.2000. And you say you want to see more housing supply but what people
:52:11. > :52:15.want addressed is what Lawrence is alluding to. It is not the issue we
:52:16. > :52:20.are getting on the doorstep. London is a very cosmopolitan, tolerant
:52:21. > :52:25.city, and I don't necessarily think that sort of message will go down
:52:26. > :52:30.well in London. It is a progressive city and that is why people are
:52:31. > :52:36.responding much better to our positive message about creating
:52:37. > :52:39.affordable housing. It is nothing to do with intolerance, it's the fact
:52:40. > :52:44.that people find their children are having to move 30 miles away because
:52:45. > :52:47.they cannot get housing in their own communities. That is the frustration
:52:48. > :52:55.people are seeing, people coming into the borough and getting ahead
:52:56. > :53:04.of them on the housing list. You can find details of all of the
:53:05. > :53:06.candidates standing in Havering on the website now. Now it is back to
:53:07. > :53:24.you, Andrew. Welcome back, let's go straight to
:53:25. > :53:29.our panel. What did you make of Mr Alexander's defence of the Labour
:53:30. > :53:31.party election broadcast? It is difficult for them because they
:53:32. > :53:36.started by saying they were not going to do negative campaigning and
:53:37. > :53:43.they have thrown that away for an advert which is funny but crude in
:53:44. > :53:51.the class war sense. He didn't look thrilled to be defending it. There
:53:52. > :53:54.is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs talking about negative campaigning,
:53:55. > :54:00.and he says that anything too extreme turns off the average voter
:54:01. > :54:11.so his line of attack on Hague was funny jokes but... I think this
:54:12. > :54:18.failed the Blair test, it was too vicious. If your strategy is to
:54:19. > :54:22.shore up your car vote, that advert was genius. If your strategy is to
:54:23. > :54:28.reach out to a broader number of voters, Middle Britain, then that
:54:29. > :54:32.advert was a complete disaster. It looks like there is a lot of
:54:33. > :54:43.negativity and smears all round in the next year. That definitely looks
:54:44. > :55:02.the way we are going. They will be essentially trying to re-run by --
:55:03. > :55:07.the American election. I am slightly puzzled why we cannot have our own
:55:08. > :55:13.election gurus who live here and understand the country. I should
:55:14. > :55:18.point out that the ?450 extra VAT that was claimed in that Labour
:55:19. > :55:24.poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour Treasury team have said that is ?450
:55:25. > :55:30.per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one year. I should also point out that
:55:31. > :55:38.Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith, the BBC is always reliable Norman
:55:39. > :55:42.Smith that if you run in Newark and lost the bubble would burst. I
:55:43. > :55:47.should also point out that although a number of the tax rises I
:55:48. > :55:51.mentioned on council tax, minimum wage tax and some other things that
:55:52. > :55:57.UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of these are in the local manifesto but
:55:58. > :56:05.several are not. They are on the UKIP website, which is still current
:56:06. > :56:10.and dated 2014. We like to make sure we are absolutely right. Let's talk
:56:11. > :56:14.about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove and the latest spat. Let me show you
:56:15. > :56:24.this headline in the Observer this morning. From both the Independent,
:56:25. > :56:34.he called him a zealot, lunatic is of -- another word. Do we take this
:56:35. > :56:40.seriously? It hinges on this question of what counts as an area
:56:41. > :56:43.of need in education. The Lib Dems say an area of need is one where
:56:44. > :56:48.there are not enough school places to meet local demand. He says it can
:56:49. > :56:53.also be a place where there are surplus places but that is for a
:56:54. > :57:05.reason. Local places don't trust those schools to do a good job for
:57:06. > :57:10.their kids. It surprises me because there isn't a yawning distance
:57:11. > :57:15.between David Laws and Michael Gove. David Laws has found himself between
:57:16. > :57:20.a rock and a hard place because I asked -- as I understand it most Lib
:57:21. > :57:24.Dems don't like the free schools but Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it
:57:25. > :57:31.and he is now having to this respect it. When they asked people who are
:57:32. > :57:36.the most hated politicians in a poll were this week, Michael Gove is off
:57:37. > :57:49.the charts, far above David Cameron or George Osborne. This is
:57:50. > :57:53.tit-for-tat war. The Liberal Democrats believe Michael Gove had a
:57:54. > :57:57.hand in leaking the document that showed Nick Clegg was opposing the
:57:58. > :58:01.tougher Chris Grayling position on knife crime. They are saying there
:58:02. > :58:06.were Cabinet ministers who never usually attend the sub Cabinet
:58:07. > :58:11.meeting, they turned up and the document is leaked so what we are
:58:12. > :58:16.getting is tit for tat on that. It is inevitable but it is not good for
:58:17. > :58:22.either side of the Coalition. Voters will look at it and say it is
:58:23. > :58:32.politics of the playground. I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning
:58:33. > :58:37.that some Tory insiders are accusing Lib Dems of spreading rumours about
:58:38. > :58:44.the camera in marriage. The rebuttals of education story is that
:58:45. > :58:54.the free school meals is sucking money away. I always thought they
:58:55. > :59:00.would work together without fuss and yet it has been more the source of
:59:01. > :59:06.disagreement then I would have expected a couple of years ago. Is
:59:07. > :59:12.it serious? It is serious obviously, using that language, but is it fatal
:59:13. > :59:15.for the Coalition? I think it is a road bump because I don't think
:59:16. > :59:19.anybody wants to dissolve the Coalition. It is a challenge for
:59:20. > :59:23.Labour because where do they stand on the free schools? They invented
:59:24. > :59:28.the Academy programme so it is difficult for them to take a
:59:29. > :59:31.hands-off approach at this stage. There was a danger for Michael Gove
:59:32. > :59:35.that he looks ideological but the danger for the Liberal Democrats is
:59:36. > :59:39.that they are breaking the rules for the Coalition they said that they
:59:40. > :59:45.wouldn't break which is that they looked like opposition in
:59:46. > :59:51.government. Is Michael Gove's position safe? Very safe. If he
:59:52. > :59:57.moves in a reshuffle that will be to a a job. That's all for today. The
:59:58. > :00:00.Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday
:00:01. > :00:03.onwards. I'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. Remember if
:00:04. > :00:52.it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:00:53. > :00:53.What if the person that killed her...
:00:54. > :00:57.I found out she'd been taking drugs. Just let me explain.
:00:58. > :01:00.You wasn't at that party all night. Yeah, I was.
:01:01. > :01:03.What was she even doing there? Oi, you keep your mouth shut.
:01:04. > :01:06.She was exchanging a significant number of texts and calls