:00:00. > :00:41.Morning folks and welcome to The Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:43.David Cameron says a manifesto shouldn't be a "wish list,
:00:44. > :00:49.He says he's been ticking off the commitments his manifesto made,
:00:50. > :00:53.Well, today we launch our own Manifesto Tracker and we'll be
:00:54. > :00:57.talking to the minister responsible for implementing it.
:00:58. > :00:59.The Government wants to crack down on the gender pay gap.
:01:00. > :01:02.But is it really as bad as everyone seems to make out?
:01:03. > :01:08.We'll be talking to TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady.
:01:09. > :01:10.And we'll be asking who's wooing who
:01:11. > :01:13.in the putative Tory leadership contest?
:01:14. > :01:23.In the capital, after eight years in office, the curtain
:01:24. > :01:25.is coming down on Boris Johnson's mayoralty.
:01:26. > :01:37.He'll be here, to talk about his legacy.
:01:38. > :01:39.And with me, as always, a match made in heaven.
:01:40. > :01:41.Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Tim Shipman,
:01:42. > :01:43.who'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:44. > :01:51.First, this morning let's turn to the situation in Syria.
:01:52. > :01:55.A nationwide "cessation of hostilities" is due
:01:56. > :01:58.But, despite that agreement, the prospects for peace
:01:59. > :02:01.The truce does not apply to the battle against what Russia
:02:02. > :02:04.calls terrorist targets and means it will continue its heavy bombing
:02:05. > :02:11.Meanwhile, Turkey has shelled Kurdish positions in Northern Syria
:02:12. > :02:13.and the Turkish Foreign Minister has said his country is pondering
:02:14. > :02:18.This morning, the Foreign Secretary said Russia had to begin complying
:02:19. > :02:23.The situation in Aleppo is extremely worrying,
:02:24. > :02:25.the Russians are using carpet-bombing
:02:26. > :02:28.tactics, indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas
:02:29. > :02:35.Yes, we demand that the Russians comply with their obligations under
:02:36. > :02:38.international law and their obligations under the UN
:02:39. > :02:48.Security Council resolutions that they have signed up to.
:02:49. > :02:55.Nick, you get a feeling that given this deal was signed in Munich, it
:02:56. > :03:00.it is living up to deal is signed in Munich reputations. When we hear the
:03:01. > :03:04.Foreign Secretary saying we demand Russian do something when they are
:03:05. > :03:11.creating facts on the ground and we are not, that will have a hollow
:03:12. > :03:15.ring. Russia is now. President's Asad air force. They have ensured
:03:16. > :03:20.that President Assad cannot lose this war but he cannot also win it.
:03:21. > :03:25.They have the air force but no forces on the ground. Now that
:03:26. > :03:29.President Assad cannot lose this war has changed the dynamics. We can
:03:30. > :03:35.whistle in the wind as much as we like but Russia is the reality and
:03:36. > :03:40.power. Sir Roderick Lyne, the former UK ambassador to Moscow was on radio
:03:41. > :03:44.five this morning and he said we should not get too carried away with
:03:45. > :03:48.quite how powerful Russia is, they don't have troops on the ground
:03:49. > :03:52.they have a faltering economy and they are nervous about going into
:03:53. > :03:56.far because of the disaster of Afghanistan 35 years ago. They do
:03:57. > :04:02.have some troops on the ground, they have proxy forces on the ground from
:04:03. > :04:06.Hezbollah and the uranium National Guard. Although they can't take back
:04:07. > :04:11.the whole of Syria, they will take back enough of it -- Iranians
:04:12. > :04:14.National Guard. Making success in the south, the border with Turkey,
:04:15. > :04:19.controlling the Mediterranean coastline. When they have done that,
:04:20. > :04:24.they might be serious about peace talks. Then they are stuck with it.
:04:25. > :04:27.It is not clear if Vladimir Putin thinks beyond tomorrow. It is not
:04:28. > :04:33.clear what the long-term strategy could do. It could be like the
:04:34. > :04:37.Russian invasion of Afghanistan an absolute disaster. President Assad
:04:38. > :04:40.is saying that they intend to take over the whole of the country,
:04:41. > :04:46.entirely unrealistic. There will be some sort of partition. What is
:04:47. > :04:47.happening is very frightening in the sense that everybody is fighting a
:04:48. > :04:57.proxy war, the Iranians and Saudis. The one thing that people keep
:04:58. > :05:01.saying is Barack Obama was so weak that it is quite unclear what he
:05:02. > :05:04.could have done. Perhaps he could have given Syria's weapons to the
:05:05. > :05:10.more moderate rebels. Hillary Clinton wanted him to do that in
:05:11. > :05:15.July 2012. She put a plan together along with the general and he turned
:05:16. > :05:18.it down. What would have happened is that they would be shooting down
:05:19. > :05:23.Russian planes with American weapons. Or Russia might not have
:05:24. > :05:27.gone to war. We don't know. Everything has a dynamic to it. This
:05:28. > :05:32.dynamic is leaving the west pretty much as onlookers. It is clear that
:05:33. > :05:37.at least in the short-term, Mr Putin will get back enough ground for
:05:38. > :05:42.Assad to then say we have got rid of a lot of these "Terrorists" because
:05:43. > :05:46.they are not Islamic state. It is now asked versus Islamic State.
:05:47. > :05:50.Exactly, we sound like the mouse that squeaked this morning. I
:05:51. > :05:55.disagree with Polly. One of the great powers in the world has now
:05:56. > :06:00.got very involved in a situation and the other hasn't. President Obama
:06:01. > :06:05.had options. He did not explore them to any sort of extent that it put
:06:06. > :06:15.off the Russians. Britain is left on the sidelines, waiting for a new US
:06:16. > :06:17.president, to get engaged in this issue and do something proactive.
:06:18. > :06:20.What could have been done that would have been any use at all? Either
:06:21. > :06:25.useless or worse than useless, stuck us in there... He did say he had
:06:26. > :06:29.chemical weapons and it was an important red Line. And he let them
:06:30. > :06:33.cross the red line. He totally ignored it. What would you have done
:06:34. > :06:37.that would have been useful? You could have set up a humanitarian
:06:38. > :06:42.safe haven and protected it with force and armed the rebels to deter
:06:43. > :06:46.the Russians and make it a situation where Assad could not continue. We
:06:47. > :06:52.now have a situation where Assad is now a fact of life, he is not going
:06:53. > :06:56.anywhere. There is not much you can do without you were serious
:06:57. > :06:57.involvement. I am glad we touched on Syria, it is an important developing
:06:58. > :06:58.story. Now, what's black and white
:06:59. > :07:01.and not read all over? Even if you did read it,
:07:02. > :07:06.would you be able to remember all the promises and whether
:07:07. > :07:09.the Government had delivered them? Today, we're launching our very
:07:10. > :07:13.own Manifesto Tracker, which charts the progress
:07:14. > :07:15.of the pledges Sort of like a blue virtual
:07:16. > :07:18.Edstone, or maybe not! Over the next four years,
:07:19. > :07:26.we'll be monitoring the Government's progress on all of the commitments
:07:27. > :07:29.the Conservatives made ahead of the 2015 general election
:07:30. > :07:33.in their manifesto, and a few big promises they made
:07:34. > :07:42.during the campaign. So, we've identified 161 pledges,
:07:43. > :07:45.and loaded them into our Manifesto We've grouped them into categories
:07:46. > :07:51.covering all the major areas of Government policy,
:07:52. > :07:53.from the constitution And we've given each
:07:54. > :08:00.of the promises a colour rating Red signalling little
:08:01. > :08:06.or no progress so far. Amber when the Government
:08:07. > :08:08.has made some progress. Let's start by looking
:08:09. > :08:14.at the Conservative commitments As you can see they've made at least
:08:15. > :08:24.some progress on all of them. Easily the party's biggest promise
:08:25. > :08:27.here was to hold a referendum on Britain's membership
:08:28. > :08:32.of the EU by December 2017. We've marked that amber,
:08:33. > :08:34.to show that some progress The bill setting the vote has passed
:08:35. > :08:41.through Parliament and it's looking likely the poll will
:08:42. > :08:45.be held this year. The cornerstone of the Conservative
:08:46. > :08:47.election campaign last May was how they would handle the economy,
:08:48. > :08:52.and as you can see, that's where we've found the greatest
:08:53. > :08:59.number of promises. Let's look at one of the policies
:09:00. > :09:02.they identified as part of their plan to
:09:03. > :09:05.eliminate the deficit. That was to reduce the welfare
:09:06. > :09:10.bill by ?12 billion. Again, we've given
:09:11. > :09:13.that an amber rating. The savings were outlined
:09:14. > :09:15.in the Chancellor's Autumn Statement But it's too early to say
:09:16. > :09:24.if they'll all be achieved. When it comes to the constitution,
:09:25. > :09:26.the Government's made some progress But it promised to scrap
:09:27. > :09:35.the Human Rights Act, and replace it That gets a red rating,
:09:36. > :09:41.as although there have been reports something is in the pipeline,
:09:42. > :09:43.as yet there is no sign of the legislation
:09:44. > :09:50.required to introduce it. Some manifesto commitments have
:09:51. > :09:54.already been delivered in full. Like the introduction of English
:09:55. > :09:56.votes for English laws to give English MPs a veto over laws that
:09:57. > :10:05.only affect England. Other changes promised in
:10:06. > :10:08.the manifesto are less well known. Like the promise to recover
:10:09. > :10:10.?500 million from migrants and overseas visitors who use
:10:11. > :10:12.the NHS by the middle We will give that amber,
:10:13. > :10:21.because some new charges have already been introduced,
:10:22. > :10:23.and the Department of Health Let's add on the rest
:10:24. > :10:30.of the promises in each of the policy areas and have a look
:10:31. > :10:33.at how the government Taken together, of the 161
:10:34. > :10:41.Conservative election commitments, we think ten are red,
:10:42. > :10:50.111 are amber, and 40 are green We'll be returning to the manifesto
:10:51. > :10:52.tracker every few months, but in the meantime you can find
:10:53. > :10:55.the full data on the politics And with us now the Cabinet Office
:10:56. > :11:07.Minister and Paymaster General, Matt Hancock, he oversees
:11:08. > :11:17.the implementation Welcome to the programme, do you
:11:18. > :11:21.regard this manifesto as a contract with the British people and do you
:11:22. > :11:25.intend to intimate it all? It is certainly the commitments on which
:11:26. > :11:31.we were elected. We take it incredibly seriously -- goals to
:11:32. > :11:35.implement it. That is the goal. We have got about a quarter delivered,
:11:36. > :11:40.we have had less than a year. In fact, I really welcome this scrutiny
:11:41. > :11:47.and this project you have been on. We will implement and publish our
:11:48. > :11:50.own plans and make sure that each individual manifesto commitment has
:11:51. > :11:55.an individual minister responsible for delivering it. And publish that.
:11:56. > :11:59.We will nationalise you and this process. You will nationalise us? We
:12:00. > :12:03.can't afford you, probably, but we will do this as a government. Let's
:12:04. > :12:08.see if you still want to do that at the end of this interview. Your
:12:09. > :12:11.manifesto promised to scrap Labour's Human Rights Act and replace it with
:12:12. > :12:14.a British Bill of Rights, and abolition Bill would be drafted
:12:15. > :12:20.within the first hundred days after the election. It didn't happen. Why?
:12:21. > :12:25.The work is in progress. Internally, we will publish it. Why have you not
:12:26. > :12:29.kept to the timetable? The timetable of the whole manifesto is to deliver
:12:30. > :12:33.within the parliament. You said this would be done, the draft bill within
:12:34. > :12:39.the first 100 days. Clearly, we will deliver against the commitment. I
:12:40. > :12:45.thought it was a bit harsh to call that read, I would call that Amber.
:12:46. > :12:49.It is not delivered yet. We called it red because the justice minister,
:12:50. > :12:53.Mr Bove, said the consultation had been delayed yet again. The question
:12:54. > :12:59.is what we deliver over the five-year parliament. -- Mr Gove. We
:13:00. > :13:01.are less than a year in and we have got one quarter delivered and that
:13:02. > :13:04.is one where there is work in progress but we are committed to
:13:05. > :13:11.doing it. The manifesto promised to make the UK's Supreme Court "The
:13:12. > :13:15.ultimate arbiter of human rights in the UK". That will not happen. This
:13:16. > :13:21.is all part of the same package which we have committed to
:13:22. > :13:25.delivering. We are less than a year in and we have a few years to go.
:13:26. > :13:30.Whatever the package, the Supreme Court will not be "The ultimate
:13:31. > :13:35.arbiter" on human rights, will it? That is part of the proposed
:13:36. > :13:40.package, as part of the replacement of the Human Rights Act. We will get
:13:41. > :13:46.to that. There is a bigger picture, which is making sure that we deliver
:13:47. > :13:50.on the overall set of commitments in the manifesto where we are making
:13:51. > :13:53.good progress. But, you can enhance the role of the Cyprian Court on
:13:54. > :13:57.human rights, I understand that Maybe the British Bill of Rights
:13:58. > :14:01.will do their -- Supreme Court. But at the end of the day, the European
:14:02. > :14:05.Court of Human Rights is the ultimate arbiter. That is the
:14:06. > :14:09.factual legal situation. It all depends on the changes that you
:14:10. > :14:12.make. We will bring forward a package of changes to be able to
:14:13. > :14:18.deliver against these commitments in the Parliament. Mr Gove says we are
:14:19. > :14:21.not planning to derogate from the European Court of Human Rights.
:14:22. > :14:24.Let's see what happens when we published the proposals on this
:14:25. > :14:29.particular package. Immigration probably your biggest fail, I would
:14:30. > :14:33.suggest. The 2050 manifesto repeated the pledge in the 2010 manifesto to
:14:34. > :14:38.get annual net migration down to tens of thousands -- 2015. After
:14:39. > :14:44.five years, far from getting it down, net migration reached a record
:14:45. > :14:51.336,000 last year, that is a spectacular failure. Clearly, this
:14:52. > :14:55.is a commitment. To get immigration down to tens of thousands, that
:14:56. > :15:02.remains the goal. But we haven't yet reached it. Presumably you did not
:15:03. > :15:06.call that green. No. It is red. That the commitment remains because we
:15:07. > :15:10.think it is reasonable to control immigration in this country, so that
:15:11. > :15:13.while some immigration can be very good for the economy and more
:15:14. > :15:18.broadly, actually it has got to be done at a reasonable level.
:15:19. > :15:23.It's not just that you didn't get it down enough, it's actually risen
:15:24. > :15:27.since you came to power. Why would you promise what you have failed
:15:28. > :15:33.dismally to deliver again? I think it is a reasonable goal. Clearly we
:15:34. > :15:41.put it in the manifesto for a reason, to get immigration down And
:15:42. > :15:45.we are less than a year into the Parliament and we've got four years
:15:46. > :15:49.to go. Is it a goal or a pledge Do you pledge to the British people
:15:50. > :15:55.today that net migration will be down to the tens of thousands by
:15:56. > :15:58.2020? Well I pledge to fulfil what was in the manifesto on which I and
:15:59. > :16:04.every other Conservative MPs was elected. Well that pledge was to get
:16:05. > :16:10.it down to the tens of thousands. It was meant to be in the tens of
:16:11. > :16:14.thousands by 2015, it is 346,00 , is there a pledge that it will be down
:16:15. > :16:19.to the tens of thousands by 202 ? There is a whole series of actions
:16:20. > :16:23.that we are taking, not least the EU renegotiation to try to tackle
:16:24. > :16:28.immigration and make sure that it's brought down to a reasonable level.
:16:29. > :16:33.Again there is a broader point, of the 160 odd commitments that you are
:16:34. > :16:36.measuring, delivering an accord of them, of course some are quicker
:16:37. > :16:40.than others to deliver on, it's fair to say. But the whole point of
:16:41. > :16:45.having the manifesto and tracking it as we are doing is to make sure we
:16:46. > :16:52.know where we are up to. Lets come onto the European negotiations, that
:16:53. > :16:56.was in the manifesto. The manifesto promised several key things in the
:16:57. > :17:02.renegotiation, a four-year ban on EU migrants claiming in work benefits,
:17:03. > :17:06.a new residency requirement for social housing, and no child benefit
:17:07. > :17:12.for EU migrants if their children live abroad. The draft deal contains
:17:13. > :17:18.none of these things. Well, firstly, as you say, the centrepiece of our
:17:19. > :17:22.European policy was to have the referendum, and we will be having
:17:23. > :17:25.the referendum. Although you call that Amber it is certainly going to
:17:26. > :17:28.happen. I understand that but none of the things you said we would get
:17:29. > :17:38.to vote on in this referendum have been delivered. We then sat out --
:17:39. > :17:41.set out what we wanted to negotiate and that negotiation is not
:17:42. > :17:45.complete. We have a lot of work to do this week to get the best
:17:46. > :17:49.possible deal we can. I hope we will have a good deal and be able to vote
:17:50. > :17:55.to stay in a reformed Europe. There is a version of the ban on EU
:17:56. > :18:00.migrants benefits, there is not no child benefits, now there will be 28
:18:01. > :18:04.different child benefits that Britain will pay but there is no
:18:05. > :18:09.mention of residency requirement for social housing, no mention of that
:18:10. > :18:13.in the deal, so that has gone? Look, we don't know the outcome of this
:18:14. > :18:17.negotiation until the end of this week. There is a week of hard work
:18:18. > :18:23.to get the deal. But there is a bigger picture here. Social housing
:18:24. > :18:28.is not on the agenda? Let's see what we get in this deal over the next
:18:29. > :18:33.week. But there's a bigger point here, which is that we said we'd
:18:34. > :18:35.have the renegotiation, lots and lots of people said you are never
:18:36. > :18:41.going to get these things on the table. A question of in work
:18:42. > :18:45.benefits, child benefit, we were told you couldn't even put that on
:18:46. > :18:49.the agenda. The discussion in Europe this week is exactly how far we go
:18:50. > :18:52.on those. People said that we couldn't deliver anything in this
:18:53. > :18:57.space and we've managed to deliver already the draft deal, and we will
:18:58. > :19:00.see where we end up. But not what was in the manifesto. We will see
:19:01. > :19:04.where we end up at the end of this week. We will indeed. Not
:19:05. > :19:08.necessarily next week but in the weeks ahead we will be coming back
:19:09. > :19:12.to go through this. Onto the economy, you put in place a charter
:19:13. > :19:17.for budget responsibility which commits you to running a surplus, a
:19:18. > :19:21.legal obligation as well as a policy. The in situ for fiscal
:19:22. > :19:23.studies says that will require tax rises or spending cuts as yet
:19:24. > :19:29.unannounced, do you agree? Not in the latest financial forecast put
:19:30. > :19:32.out by the office for budget responsible to who independently
:19:33. > :19:35.advise on these, and we have a budget in just over a month's time
:19:36. > :19:39.so we will see what the figures say, then. Clearly in the latest forecast
:19:40. > :19:47.from the government, yes, we have that surplus. You have not hit a
:19:48. > :19:53.surplus. We have hit it in the forecast. And they change. They do,
:19:54. > :19:58.as the economy changes. On that economic front there was an awful
:19:59. > :20:02.lot in the manifesto on that, it is all about economic security,
:20:03. > :20:05.generating jobs, in the same way that the national Security ones were
:20:06. > :20:09.all about national security. And those were the two elements at the
:20:10. > :20:13.heart of this manifesto that we were elected on. I would say that we are
:20:14. > :20:17.delivering very strongly on both. In terms of the big picture of what you
:20:18. > :20:21.are getting from the message that we said we were going to deliver. Let
:20:22. > :20:25.me come down to the smaller but still very important picture. You
:20:26. > :20:30.have a legal obligation to reach a surplus by 2020. If, to reach that
:20:31. > :20:36.surplus, you had to raise taxes would you? Look, much as I'd love
:20:37. > :20:42.to, I'm not going to set out tax policy on Sunday morning. To meet
:20:43. > :20:45.the legal obligation, if it required tax increases, would there be tax
:20:46. > :20:48.increases? We've set out the plans and the plans hit a surplus. We did
:20:49. > :20:54.that in the Autumn Statement in November. Clearly the economy
:20:55. > :20:57.changes all the time, internationally, people have seen
:20:58. > :21:03.falls in the stock market in the last few months. But we will have a
:21:04. > :21:07.budget in more than a month's time. But I voted to have that surplus and
:21:08. > :21:13.that is clearly what we will set out to do. You promised a lower tax
:21:14. > :21:19.society. Yes. Yet on the forecast, the overall tax burden is rising as
:21:20. > :21:23.a percentage of GDP and on the forecast, not the buoyancy but extra
:21:24. > :21:27.tax that you have introduced will be ?50 billion higher. So you have
:21:28. > :21:31.previous on this, you could raise taxes again because you already
:21:32. > :21:36.have? Clearly there are some areas where we have tightened things up,
:21:37. > :21:43.especially on tax avoidance. We took an extra ?5 billion from tax
:21:44. > :21:46.avoidance measures. And what about the billions in addition to that? We
:21:47. > :21:51.have reduced the tax burden especially on people in lower wage
:21:52. > :21:54.jobs, they are going to get the national minimum wage but we are
:21:55. > :21:57.well on the way to the manifesto commitment of making sure you don't
:21:58. > :22:04.have to pay any income taxed until you make ?12,500. We have made
:22:05. > :22:08.progress but there is more to do. The manifesto talks about reducing
:22:09. > :22:13.the tax relief on pension contributions for people earning
:22:14. > :22:20.more than ?150,000, people on 4 %, the highest income tax band, you are
:22:21. > :22:24.going to cut tax relief on their pension contributions. If you were
:22:25. > :22:31.to also cut the tax relief of those on the 40% rate, that would be
:22:32. > :22:34.breaching the manifesto? There we've done what we said we would do in the
:22:35. > :22:40.manifesto. We've followed the manifesto clearly in terms of the
:22:41. > :22:44.commitment that it made. Outside the manifesto there's always going to be
:22:45. > :22:48.other things that you do. On pension tax review were explicit that it
:22:49. > :22:52.would be those in the 45% wouldn't get it, you didn't mention any other
:22:53. > :22:58.bracket, the imprecation is that it's only the 45%. If you took away
:22:59. > :23:02.tax relief from the 40% taxpayers that would be broken manifesto
:23:03. > :23:07.commitment? That's not how I see it, you can add things to the manifesto.
:23:08. > :23:10.Look at the whole reform programme a massive reform programme which was
:23:11. > :23:14.not in our manifesto because we ve built it up as a proposal since
:23:15. > :23:22.then. Likewise the Prime Ministerspeech on social mobility
:23:23. > :23:27.and an tackling an just inequalities -- an just inequalities. We've done
:23:28. > :23:34.a huge amount of that on the autumn. Delivering on the manifesto
:23:35. > :23:37.commitments is absolutely essential. But it is not the only thing you do
:23:38. > :23:42.in government because you respond to events. But the purpose of this
:23:43. > :23:46.interview is to hold your manifesto to account. Hunting, when will you
:23:47. > :23:49.give Parliament the chance to repeal the hunting act. We are committed to
:23:50. > :23:55.doing that. When? In this Parliament. We looked at doing it
:23:56. > :24:00.early on. You dropped that. We decided not to do it then, but we
:24:01. > :24:04.are committed to its. You set a target of ?1 trillion of exports by
:24:05. > :24:12.2020, most forecasters including your own oh BR say you will be at
:24:13. > :24:15.least ?350 billion short. Can we agree that you will not hit that
:24:16. > :24:21.target? It's fair to say that it is stretching target, but it remains
:24:22. > :24:29.our target, our aspiration. But you will miss it. There is an awful lot
:24:30. > :24:32.of work going into achieving it Thank you for that, come back and we
:24:33. > :24:34.will see the progress in the months ahead. Look forward to it.
:24:35. > :24:37.And remember if you want to see how the government is doing
:24:38. > :24:39.in detail our manifesto tracker is available for you to peruse
:24:40. > :24:47.On Friday, new measures to tackle the pay gap between genders
:24:48. > :24:57.From 2018, companies with more than 250 employees will have
:24:58. > :24:59.to publish the differences in salary between men and women.
:25:00. > :25:01.Businesses failing to address the problem will be named
:25:02. > :25:06.Here's what Women and Equalities Minister Nicky Morgan had to say.
:25:07. > :25:09.Transparency about the gender pay gap in companies and public sector
:25:10. > :25:15.organisations is going to be very important in driving behaviour.
:25:16. > :25:18.So we are going to require companies, under the regulations,
:25:19. > :25:21.companies of over 250 employees to publish their gender pay gap
:25:22. > :25:30.We, as a government, will then compile those league tables.
:25:31. > :25:32.It will be two fold, one, companies will hopefully,
:25:33. > :25:36.and we expect from the response we have,
:25:37. > :25:39.to think a lot harder about where women are in their workforce.
:25:40. > :25:41.How they are distributed, what they are being paid.
:25:42. > :25:43.But it will also drive applications to work in certain
:25:44. > :25:47.organisations because I think women will look and see what is the gender
:25:48. > :25:49.pay gap in this organisation and is this somewhere
:25:50. > :25:53.And with us now, General Secretary of the TUC, Frances O'Grady.
:25:54. > :26:01.Welcome back. We know there is a gender pay gap. In some age groups,
:26:02. > :26:05.not all, but still in some age groups. Where is the evidence that
:26:06. > :26:12.it is a result of dissemination of employers not paying properly, as
:26:13. > :26:20.opposed to lifestyle and choices? We still do have this pretty crazy
:26:21. > :26:24.situation where women have Giroud and 80p for everyone pound that men
:26:25. > :26:29.do across the economy. -- where women earn 80p for every pound that
:26:30. > :26:33.men do. This is a welcome step, this initiative, but it is a very small
:26:34. > :26:37.step. It is about reporting, not about telling us why this is going
:26:38. > :26:41.on, not coming up with actions to deal with it. When you dig down from
:26:42. > :26:45.the headline figure, and you have just used one, you begin to see some
:26:46. > :26:49.quite deep-seated cultural issues, not just a matter of economics. The
:26:50. > :26:53.labour market study shows that men tend to work in occupations that pay
:26:54. > :26:57.more, that's been a historic thing. And women in jobs that pay less For
:26:58. > :27:01.example men in construction, women in retail. Men in computer
:27:02. > :27:06.programming, women in nursing. That is one of the explanations for the
:27:07. > :27:12.page gap. There is certainly still big job separation, but one of the
:27:13. > :27:18.questions we must ask is, is it case of equal values? People paying for
:27:19. > :27:25.the work of equal value. It is illegal to pay anybody less than a
:27:26. > :27:32.man is getting or vice versa, equal pay for equal jobs. For example why
:27:33. > :27:35.is looking after children considered to be less valuable than mending a
:27:36. > :27:39.car? The problem is, in order for women to prove it, they've got to be
:27:40. > :27:41.able to take employment tribunal claims, and of course we've seen
:27:42. > :27:47.this government introduce very significant fees that have massively
:27:48. > :27:52.reduced the number of women being able to take pay and six
:27:53. > :27:56.dissemination claims. Is on the gender pay gap really a generational
:27:57. > :28:01.matter, and it might be resolving itself? I'd like to show you this
:28:02. > :28:05.chart, here, which looks at different age groups. For women aged
:28:06. > :28:09.40 to 49, there is a gap, it's coming down but there is still a
:28:10. > :28:14.substantial gap. For younger women in the 22 to 29, there is no pay
:28:15. > :28:17.gap, indeed there is some evidence now that the gender pay gap is the
:28:18. > :28:25.other way among younger people than it is amongst men. What I think it
:28:26. > :28:30.shows you is that the real problem kicks in when women have babies
:28:31. > :28:34.Yes. That's when women are much more likely to work part-time, much more
:28:35. > :28:37.likely to need nurseries, and as we get older and we are looking after
:28:38. > :28:43.elderly parents, too. Elder care as well. Some of those public service
:28:44. > :28:47.cuts are hitting our sure start centres and care for the elderly. I
:28:48. > :28:52.think you hit on something, there. You can begin to see the return of
:28:53. > :28:57.the gender pay gap as women hit their late 20s or early 30s, because
:28:58. > :29:02.the average age that women have their first child is 28 and a half.
:29:03. > :29:06.So that suggests that the policy response will have to be quite
:29:07. > :29:11.sophisticated to get rid of a later developing pay gap. Stopping cuts on
:29:12. > :29:15.this is would help but also helping dads as well. A lot of men nowadays
:29:16. > :29:19.want to be more involved with their children but they need more paid
:29:20. > :29:25.paternity to be able to do that I want to show you another chart that
:29:26. > :29:31.suggests there are developers. This shows you a figure that is not
:29:32. > :29:35.widely known, there are now every year 100,000 more women applying for
:29:36. > :29:41.university than men. 100,000 more. Women from poor backgrounds are 50%
:29:42. > :29:46.more likely to go to university than men. Women now take most of the
:29:47. > :29:51.first in medicine and law, two professions that are pretty well
:29:52. > :29:56.paid. Again, isn't this sense that, even in the later years, now, the
:29:57. > :29:59.gender pay gap could begin to resolve itself?
:30:00. > :30:07.I really hope so the TUC analysis shows that at this rate of change it
:30:08. > :30:13.would take another 45 years. No I looked at these figures. Frances
:30:14. > :30:20.O'Grady, you took one year of the pay gap, which strode it came down
:30:21. > :30:25.by 0.2%. Dodt which showed. If you had taken the last ten years it
:30:26. > :30:29.still takes too long but it is not 47 years, that was a propaganda
:30:30. > :30:34.figure. You can't do a trend on one year. Most people agree we need bold
:30:35. > :30:39.action to change it. Given we have agreed that it is a complicated
:30:40. > :30:43.picture and now becomes an issue primarily for women who have taken
:30:44. > :30:47.time off and then go back into the workforce again, get me one thing
:30:48. > :30:52.that the government could do that would stop this gender pay gap
:30:53. > :30:57.re-emerging in their 30s and 40s? Stop cuts to nurseries. Provide a
:30:58. > :31:01.proper system of care for old people, that allows women and men to
:31:02. > :31:05.combine those caring responsibilities with a responsible
:31:06. > :31:09.job. That is what would really make... I can see how it would help.
:31:10. > :31:12.It is about progression and people feeling they can go for that
:31:13. > :31:17.promotion or training course that would get them a better job. And
:31:18. > :31:22.having the confidence to do it, that their life won't fall apart if they
:31:23. > :31:26.tried. If the TUC wanted to be ahead of the curve, should you not now be
:31:27. > :31:31.giving a lot more attention to the growing underperformance of young
:31:32. > :31:34.males, particularly from poorer backgrounds in education and the
:31:35. > :31:41.workforce? That is a looming problem. Believe you me, we do, we
:31:42. > :31:44.do. We've been fighting very hard for not just more apprenticeships
:31:45. > :31:49.but real quality apprenticeships. Equal opportunities for all. That
:31:50. > :31:53.would help. There are a lot of young men who want to be as involved in
:31:54. > :31:58.bringing up their children as their partners do. Why doesn't the TUC
:31:59. > :32:02.practice what it preaches when it comes to gender equality? Only three
:32:03. > :32:07.of the largest ten unions are led by women even though most unions have a
:32:08. > :32:10.female majority membership. Being a national offices in the unions are
:32:11. > :32:16.lower than the percentage of the night union members. Eight out of
:32:17. > :32:20.ten. And seven out of ten unions have women where they are
:32:21. > :32:24.significantly underrepresented on the national executive. Of the TUC
:32:25. > :32:28.delegation is. Even though women are majority membership. As you know,
:32:29. > :32:32.the picture has changed dramatically over the last few years. We do just
:32:33. > :32:38.have three in ten union leaders elected on average. That is a big
:32:39. > :32:42.change, it is a lot better than the board room and a hell of a lot
:32:43. > :32:52.better than many sat around the Cabinet table. It is still not that
:32:53. > :33:01.great. 74% female membership. Only 70% full time. 75% TUC delegation
:33:02. > :33:06.and only 28 on the TUC. Led by a woman general secretary. You have a
:33:07. > :33:10.way to go. For the first time in history it is 50-50. We are
:33:11. > :33:14.committed. We want to work with businesses who want to make that
:33:15. > :33:18.change. I am delighted to say. He loves unions. Thank you.
:33:19. > :33:20.It's just gone 11:30am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:33:21. > :33:23.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:33:24. > :33:26.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead.
:33:27. > :33:36.First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:33:37. > :33:44.Few gave him much hope eight years ago but he won twice.
:33:45. > :33:47.And as the curtain comes down, how does he think he did?
:33:48. > :33:55.To help us mark his card, Tania Mathias, Conservative
:33:56. > :33:57.MP for Twickenham, and Keir Starmer, Labour MP
:33:58. > :34:02.I want to start with a quick word about the Met Commissioner,
:34:03. > :34:07.He's got only a one-year extension to his contract.
:34:08. > :34:10.At the same time he's just asked a judge to look at how the Met has
:34:11. > :34:15.been dealing with historical sex abuse enquiries.
:34:16. > :34:17.Are these things connected, do you think this has cast
:34:18. > :34:21.I wouldn't say it's cast a shadow until that has been investigated.
:34:22. > :34:25.For me the one-year makes a lot of sense because of the mayoral
:34:26. > :34:35.It gives a new incoming mayor an ability to legitimise Bernard
:34:36. > :34:38.Yeah, I think the relationship between the mayor and
:34:39. > :34:40.the commissioner is a really important one,
:34:41. > :34:43.and it makes sense for the incoming mayor to have the chance to look
:34:44. > :34:49.But I worked with Bernard when I was Director of Public
:34:50. > :35:02.I think on the big things in London he has done
:35:03. > :35:06.Does it look to you, though, that he's had to bring in this judge
:35:07. > :35:09.to look at the way they do things, and has also raised questions
:35:10. > :35:12.about whether we regard victims or their accounts in the same way,
:35:13. > :35:19.I think we should always look at any issue such as this.
:35:20. > :35:21.Check the way things have been done, get somebody to look independently
:35:22. > :35:28.With victims we veer from one side of the road to the other.
:35:29. > :35:31.We've been doing this for years and we've got to be careful not
:35:32. > :35:33.to steer and oversteer the whole time.
:35:34. > :35:39.What's your observation been about how this has become
:35:40. > :35:44.And this sense that he should be apologising to people?
:35:45. > :35:48.Well, apologies are always difficult for any investigation.
:35:49. > :35:51.If we were to apologise every time someone was investigated and not
:35:52. > :35:54.charged, there would have had to have been an apology
:35:55. > :35:58.to Jimmy Savile, because of course he was investigated and not charged.
:35:59. > :36:02.I don't think many people would be comfortable with the idea that,
:36:03. > :36:05.as a general rule, when somebody is investigated and not charged
:36:06. > :36:11.they should be entitled to an apology.
:36:12. > :36:14.If of course it transpires that something went wrong
:36:15. > :36:18.with a particular investigation then of course there should
:36:19. > :36:25.But I don't think it should follow as a rule that
:36:26. > :36:29.if there is an investigation that does not lead to a charge,
:36:30. > :36:34.I'm sure Bernard, if the review says in this case something went wrong,
:36:35. > :36:39.You said it was important for the mayoralty, but do you think
:36:40. > :36:40.this has cast a shadow over his tenure?
:36:41. > :36:43.No, I think people will judge him on crime generally for London,
:36:44. > :36:45.and the good results that London has had.
:36:46. > :36:49.But also what I was wondering on the apology was, can you not then
:36:50. > :36:51.acknowledge people's experience their hurt, without legally saying
:36:52. > :37:03.He has actually expressed regret, I think.
:37:04. > :37:07.It is a huge strain on anybody investigating circumstances
:37:08. > :37:09.like that, and you can and we should acknowledge it.
:37:10. > :37:12.If someone is in charge they are entitled to be treated
:37:13. > :37:17.But I just think the general rule or feeling should be that an apology
:37:18. > :37:22.is trouble some, because do we really think Jimmy Savile should
:37:23. > :37:29.We would be talking about whether it was appropriate.
:37:30. > :37:32.We must move on because we have a lot to get through.
:37:33. > :37:35.Soon there will be a new narrative taking hold at City Hall,
:37:36. > :37:37.and we'll be saying farewell to Boris Johnson.
:37:38. > :37:41.If he was seriously underestimated at the beginning, is used his two
:37:42. > :37:44.victories and time at City Hall to turn round his own political
:37:45. > :37:46.fortunes, and who knows what comes next.
:37:47. > :37:56.As an enthusiast of the ancient world, Boris Johnson will be well
:37:57. > :37:59.acquainted with the British Museum, home to many of antiquity's finest
:38:00. > :38:01.treasures, including this, the statue thought to have inspired
:38:02. > :38:12.which reflects on how great men are seen through history.
:38:13. > :38:15.My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
:38:16. > :38:19.Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
:38:20. > :38:22.Now Boris Johnson has just 12 weeks left as Mayor of London.
:38:23. > :38:24.So the question now really is this, when people look back
:38:25. > :38:26.through history at his eight years running London,
:38:27. > :38:30.will they judge him as a man of monumental achievements,
:38:31. > :38:41.or just another bloke forgotten in the sands of time?
:38:42. > :38:44.There's no question that in office he's made many Londoners laugh.
:38:45. > :38:46.Others feel a little better about living in what he likes
:38:47. > :38:50.The skyline has been transformed, the Olympics hosted,
:38:51. > :38:54.and the city left with cable cars, bikes, buses and cycle lanes.
:38:55. > :38:56.But according to Sarah Sands, editor of the Boris-supporting
:38:57. > :39:02.Evening Standard, a vital part was neglected in this flurry
:39:03. > :39:09.He was the one who said this was going to be this great city
:39:10. > :39:12.this magnet, the population was going to grow to ten million
:39:13. > :39:17.And actually he's been very good at planning for it in transport
:39:18. > :39:19.terms, he's been a great champion of Crossrail and getting
:39:20. > :39:23.On housing I think in principle he's been for it, but Boris isn't that
:39:24. > :39:31.And I think housing is so much about process.
:39:32. > :39:34.So when taking in the good and the bad, what might his
:39:35. > :39:37.We asked political cartoonist Martin Rowson for his impression.
:39:38. > :39:40.I portrayed him in this classical pose as a mixture between Pericles
:39:41. > :39:43.and Achilles, crowning himself with a crown of laurel leaves,
:39:44. > :39:53.And behind him you can see these two people saying,
:39:54. > :39:57."Don't know, and will never get through the cycle lane
:39:58. > :40:04.Think that more or less sums up Boris's legacy.
:40:05. > :40:06.This week the mayor announced three new cycle superhighways,
:40:07. > :40:08.but interestingly the Conservative candidate for mayor this year,
:40:09. > :40:15.Zac Goldsmith, said that he'd consider ripping them all up.
:40:16. > :40:17.Certainly the last few weeks in office will be ones
:40:18. > :40:20.in which he can help secure a legacy, but also of course put
:40:21. > :40:22.down some interesting challenges for his successor.
:40:23. > :40:25.So by announcing things now, it makes it slightly more difficult
:40:26. > :40:28.than if they hadn't been announced, for his successor now to pull back
:40:29. > :40:37.from them if they choose not to do something.
:40:38. > :40:39.The introduction of the night tube is also uncertain.
:40:40. > :40:42.There has been resistance from trade unions, and while once it was due
:40:43. > :40:46.to start in September it may now be the legacy of some future mayor
:40:47. > :40:48.The Garden Bridge, though, may not even have that luxury.
:40:49. > :40:50.Mired in controversy over the procurement process,
:40:51. > :40:53.this week the Royal Institute of British Architects said that
:40:54. > :40:59.And according to Kevin Craig, a local Labour councillor
:41:00. > :41:01.in Lambeth, it's 50/50 whether the project will go
:41:02. > :41:08.There is every chance that the Garden Bridge will not be
:41:09. > :41:11.The project is in doubt, the funding is not secured,
:41:12. > :41:14.and with every day that passes as we approach the end of Boris s
:41:15. > :41:18.reign, more voices come out and say the process the bridge was procured
:41:19. > :41:21.by is flawed, and needs to be done again.
:41:22. > :41:24.So while there may not be much time left, there is still plenty
:41:25. > :41:33.Boris Johnson could do to determine how his legacy is set in stone.
:41:34. > :41:37.And Boris Johnson is here, and welcome to you.
:41:38. > :41:39.Not mentioned there, but one really big legacy question,
:41:40. > :41:42.can you tell the city Corporation, all the London business
:41:43. > :41:45.organisations, that you are ready to recommend staying in the EU,
:41:46. > :41:53.Whatever happens, I think what you could say is that under
:41:54. > :41:56.this mayoralty, London is by far and away the economic powerhouse
:41:57. > :42:03.It's the commercial, financial, cultural,
:42:04. > :42:16.Last year London had 18.8 million visitors, we knocked Paris
:42:17. > :42:23.off number one spot, New York.
:42:24. > :42:27.As you saw in the bit about housing, it's the only city in Europe
:42:28. > :42:28.where the population has been growing so fast,
:42:29. > :42:31.the demand to live in London is so high, that that's really
:42:32. > :42:37.You remember back when I started out, they are having
:42:38. > :42:39.mayoral hustings now, when I did hustings back in 200 ,
:42:40. > :42:47.We had to respond to the demand for housing in London.
:42:48. > :42:49.Contrary to what Sarah said in that otherwise excellent film,
:42:50. > :42:56.Housing in one moment, but one last thing, commentators
:42:57. > :42:58.are saying you haven't got the courage to put
:42:59. > :43:13.Can you just clarify what your position will be?
:43:14. > :43:16.I can tell you that I'm going to wait until the Prime Minister
:43:17. > :43:22.does his deal and I will then come off the fence.
:43:23. > :43:24.Whatever happens you will hear a lot from me.
:43:25. > :43:29.The salient point is this, that London is now
:43:30. > :43:32.People thinking about Britain in Europe, Britain out of Europe,
:43:33. > :43:35.should recognise that a lot of the investment we attract now
:43:36. > :43:43.is from places outside the EU, export increasingly outside the EU.
:43:44. > :43:53.I think a lot of good reasons to be positive about Europe
:43:54. > :43:59.Does it not cast a really big shadow?
:44:00. > :44:02.Do you not feel pangs, do you not feel bad that this
:44:03. > :44:05.housing crisis has got worse, and it has got worse on your watch?
:44:06. > :44:07.Well, I mean, I think, as I said earlier on,
:44:08. > :44:10.the struggle to find housing in London is obviously something
:44:11. > :44:16.that is very important for huge numbers of people.
:44:17. > :44:19.What I would say in defence of what we've tried to do,
:44:20. > :44:21.we have built a record number of affordable homes.
:44:22. > :44:25.I can see that Keir is bubbling with a question.
:44:26. > :44:27.It's all right, he will come in in a minute.
:44:28. > :44:32.Let me give you an example, which is the First Steps scheme
:44:33. > :44:34.where we've built 52,000 homes and got Londoners into family
:44:35. > :44:38.properties very often where the average household income
:44:39. > :44:49.of people who have bought those homes is ?37,000 a year.
:44:50. > :44:54.That, for two people, does not seem to me to be bad.
:44:55. > :44:58.If you are saying that the challenge is huge, and we should be
:44:59. > :45:04.doing more, then yes I perfectly accept that.
:45:05. > :45:07.But what we are doing is putting in the transport infrastructure that
:45:08. > :45:09.will liberate those brownfield sites.
:45:10. > :45:13.Frankly I have just cycled here from City Hall,
:45:14. > :45:18.I looked around at the cranes, there has never been a period
:45:19. > :45:20.of building like this in London in my memory.
:45:21. > :45:25.When people look back at your mayoralty do you think
:45:26. > :45:29.people will think that you have grappled really hard
:45:30. > :45:31.with these housing issues, and you have come up with anything
:45:32. > :45:40.I do, and I think you will see that the plans we put in place
:45:41. > :45:45.with the housing zones, with the First Steps schemes,
:45:46. > :45:49.with continuing to drive forward new affordable housing,
:45:50. > :45:52.low-cost homes, on sites that nobody thought could be got away.
:45:53. > :46:00.Look at Battersea, Vauxhall, Battersea, everybody complains
:46:01. > :46:03.and says it all for rich foreigners, that's not true, there is plenty
:46:04. > :46:10.None of that would have been possible.
:46:11. > :46:12.The only affordable housing approved there is for people on ?45,000,
:46:13. > :46:16.Look at what's happening in Greenwich.
:46:17. > :46:25.You almost introduced him a second ago, let's bring him in.
:46:26. > :46:30.I have family after family who are in council accommodation,
:46:31. > :46:36.housing association accommodation, where there is massive
:46:37. > :46:39.overcrowding, usually mum, dad, two or three kids,
:46:40. > :46:42.with one bedroom, and that crisis of housing has not got better.
:46:43. > :46:49.I can totally understand that, but what has happened in London
:46:50. > :46:52.since I have been mayor is the population has actually
:46:53. > :46:57.And it's going to keep rising, and that is because of
:46:58. > :47:11.Why didn't we prepare, you are asking?
:47:12. > :47:14.Actually we did prepare but what you can't count
:47:15. > :47:24.for is the fantastic success of the city.
:47:25. > :47:26.We are now seeing building at scale and pace.
:47:27. > :47:33.People are telling you in Twickenham that generations of young people's
:47:34. > :47:36.hopes have been dashed, and it's happened under this mayor.
:47:37. > :47:40.We don't have that in Twickenham actually.
:47:41. > :47:42.It is interesting what you are saying about people
:47:43. > :47:50.Because in my area, the council realised people want to live
:47:51. > :47:53.and stay in the area, so it's actually the local planning
:47:54. > :47:56.made it family homes, so we are trying to minimise
:47:57. > :48:03.They are certainly not affordable in that neck of the woods.
:48:04. > :48:12.Exactly what you said, Boris, when you first were in hustings
:48:13. > :48:17.It is now the main issue of all the hustings
:48:18. > :48:24.It is the main issue as a new MP with your party parliamentary group.
:48:25. > :48:28.And I think there will be, and this is the good thing,
:48:29. > :48:31.a cross-party way of addressing London's needs.
:48:32. > :48:33.For me the main thing is key workers, keeping people
:48:34. > :48:39.You will be seen, won't you, as a cycling mayor?
:48:40. > :48:42.A mayor who has done so much to promote cycling.
:48:43. > :48:48.Don't think you would have said that a few years ago.
:48:49. > :48:54.We've watched it stuttering, haven't we?
:48:55. > :48:58.You've arrived very late to what people seem to be saying
:48:59. > :49:01.in terms of cycling is working well, do you regret that you clearly
:49:02. > :49:04.didn't think this through to begin with or you didn't have
:49:05. > :49:10.Cycling has more or less doubled since I've been mayor and I do think
:49:11. > :49:15.it's a wonderful thing about living in London.
:49:16. > :49:18.It makes it a much better place to live in, move around in.
:49:19. > :49:20.We are seeing huge numbers of people cycle who never thought
:49:21. > :49:24.People who are vulnerable cyclists who maybe had been scared before.
:49:25. > :49:33.Now I think what you are saying is, could the initial cycle superhighway
:49:34. > :49:40.Could you have succeeded in achieving your 12 superhighways?
:49:41. > :49:43.Could it have protected a lot more cyclists who got hurt?
:49:44. > :49:45.I think we've learnt an awful lot along the way.
:49:46. > :49:50.London is a very old city with very constricted road space.
:49:51. > :49:52.As Martin Rowson was saying in his cartoon bit, people
:49:53. > :49:58.are complaining about the delays caused by the cycle superhighway.
:49:59. > :50:01.I assure you all my friends in Parliament are so cross with me,
:50:02. > :50:05.There will come an end to these roadworks.
:50:06. > :50:12.And then you will have fantastic segregated cycle superhighways.
:50:13. > :50:16.What I really hope is that the future mayor,
:50:17. > :50:18.whoever he or she may be, continues that programme
:50:19. > :50:20.of investment in cycle safety and improving London's roads.
:50:21. > :50:26.It would be a disaster if we were to have a mayor
:50:27. > :50:28.who were to take ?2 billion out of London's transport budgets that
:50:29. > :50:31.could otherwise be spent on great projects for the infrastructure
:50:32. > :50:38.What do you say looking ahead about how you have left future
:50:39. > :50:47.transport investment, given that you have not been able
:50:48. > :50:49.to persuade the Chancellor, George Osborne, to reverse
:50:50. > :50:52.the decision to cut ?3 billion over the next four or five years
:50:53. > :50:55.in investment, what happened there and why did you fail on that?
:50:56. > :50:57.I had TFL in yesterday afternoon going through the whole thing,
:50:58. > :51:00.every single one of our major infrastructure projects we can
:51:01. > :51:05.But how did you fail on that so fundamentally, on that money
:51:06. > :51:08.Don't forget, when I came in as mayor we had the worst
:51:09. > :51:10.financial crunch the city has seen for 50 years,
:51:11. > :51:13.Crossrail itself was on the block, they were going to chop Crossrail.
:51:14. > :51:18.We've got it now coming in on time and on budget.
:51:19. > :51:20.This Chancellor, this Conservative government is actually now
:51:21. > :51:22.about to go ahead with Crossrail Two, which will be
:51:23. > :51:29.You raise the issue about a future Labour mayor, some kind of black
:51:30. > :51:32.hole which you and other Conservative colleagues are talking
:51:33. > :51:39.about, it brings us nicely to look at the rest of the news in 60
:51:40. > :51:44.seconds which begins with a relevant item.
:51:45. > :51:49.The controversy continues over Labour mayoral candidate
:51:50. > :51:51.Sadiq Khan's promise to freeze transport fares for four years.
:51:52. > :51:54.He says it will cost just ?452 million, a claim that had been
:51:55. > :51:56.publicly contradicted by Transport for London,
:51:57. > :52:00.who circulated a figure of ?1.9 billion.
:52:01. > :52:02.This week however transport for London Commissioner Mike Brown
:52:03. > :52:04.publicly confirmed that the cost would be less, as their figure
:52:05. > :52:07.was based on a five-year period not the four-year length
:52:08. > :52:18.Staying with transport, and the transport union the RMT this
:52:19. > :52:20.week suspended two Tube strikes over the safety of maintenance
:52:21. > :52:23.staff and shift changes to track patrol workers.
:52:24. > :52:25.However there remain six further 24-hour strikes planned over
:52:26. > :52:29.Drivers using Tower Bridge will be encouraged to stop idling
:52:30. > :52:32.and switch their engines off when the bridge is opening to help
:52:33. > :52:37.lower emissions and boost air quality.
:52:38. > :52:39.The scheme is jointly funded by Southwark,
:52:40. > :52:46.Tower Hamlets and the Mayor of London.
:52:47. > :52:56.Keir Starmer, are Sadiq Khan's plans feasible?
:52:57. > :52:57.Will they deny TFL much-needed income?
:52:58. > :53:02.I think most Londoners would say that their fares have gone up
:53:03. > :53:08.It is becoming a significant part of their take-home pay to get
:53:09. > :53:13.So he is absolutely right to introduce a freeze.
:53:14. > :53:16.Obviously there is an argument about the numbers but he is right
:53:17. > :53:21.I think what you had yesterday from Mike Brown at TFL was a clear
:53:22. > :53:24.confirmation that it is a ?1.9 billion cost over the business plan.
:53:25. > :53:30.You made the decision not to raise fares, so by not raising fares,
:53:31. > :53:40.You didn't raise them 1% above inflation, which is what TFL
:53:41. > :53:43.wanted, so you yourself have denied them income and you are accusing him
:53:44. > :53:46.On the contrary, we had a very steady fares system.
:53:47. > :53:49.What we haven't done is gone in promising cuts and then lurching
:53:50. > :53:55.If you haven't given TFL 1% above inflation
:53:56. > :53:58.which they thought they were going to get for three
:53:59. > :54:00.years, you have denied them that money as well.
:54:01. > :54:06.If you go ahead with what the Labour candidate is promising in classic
:54:07. > :54:11.Livingstonian form, and by the way he has yet to rule out
:54:12. > :54:13.that he is going to bring back Ken...
:54:14. > :54:18.He is offering a fares cut that will be unaffordable for London
:54:19. > :54:22.and will lead to us having to cut staff.
:54:23. > :54:25.People commuting from Twickenham will not want to be paying huge 1%
:54:26. > :54:36.What people in Twickenham need and I very much hope TFL take
:54:37. > :54:39.over our services, what we need is more regular services.
:54:40. > :54:42.That has been one of the legacies, and we need that in our area,
:54:43. > :54:49.They are much more likely to get that, if I may say so,
:54:50. > :54:51.with a Conservative mayor, working with the government
:54:52. > :54:53.in a cooperative way to deliver better train services.
:54:54. > :54:57.Keir Starmer, try and encapsulate if you can, how do you think he has
:54:58. > :55:02.I think Boris is Boris, he is a one-off.
:55:03. > :55:07.We touched on the major issue which is housing,
:55:08. > :55:15.and housing for people in mine and many constituencies simply don't
:55:16. > :55:17.have houses they can actually afford.
:55:18. > :55:19.It is very difficult to pin Boris down.
:55:20. > :55:22.I want to give you this chance to end on this note,
:55:23. > :55:27.A rocky start to your mayoralty but then you got your head round it
:55:28. > :55:29.all, and you had a successful Olympics, do you feel it
:55:30. > :55:34.Asking about me, yes, it's the most absorbing
:55:35. > :55:37.and demanding job anybody could possibly imagine,
:55:38. > :55:46.I cannot believe that Labour created the mayoralty in the knowledge
:55:47. > :55:50.that it could be conceivably won by a Conservative politician.
:55:51. > :55:53.But it is the most wonderful job in British politics.
:55:54. > :55:57.It's been an absolute privilege to do.
:55:58. > :55:59.If you ask me other things we could have got right
:56:00. > :56:02.at the beginning, of course there are.
:56:03. > :56:05.But I think that overall I have a fantastic team
:56:06. > :56:08.at City Hall, some amazingly gifted people who helped me do it.
:56:09. > :56:11.Broadly speaking the results have been very good so far.
:56:12. > :56:18.On that note, thank you very much indeed.
:56:19. > :56:21.Presumably, next time we see you may be as a humble member
:56:22. > :56:24.or you could be doing something else.
:56:25. > :56:26.Very proud to represent Uxbridge and South Ruislip.
:56:27. > :56:40.MPs are on their half term holiday at the moment, so you might be
:56:41. > :56:43.forgiven for thinking we'll be in for a quiet time next week.
:56:44. > :56:49.On Thursday, David Cameron heads to Brussels where he hopes
:56:50. > :56:51.to finalise his deal on Britain s membership of the EU at what's been
:56:52. > :56:56.dubbed the "crunch" European summit.
:56:57. > :57:06.We will see how crunchy it is. Tim, Mr Hammond, the Foreign Secretary
:57:07. > :57:09.this morning, Matthew Hancock on this programme, they both said,
:57:10. > :57:12.let's see what the final deal is because there could be more in it
:57:13. > :57:16.than the draft settlement, more for the British government. I would
:57:17. > :57:22.suggest that the draft settlement for Mr Cameron is as good as it
:57:23. > :57:25.gets. That may well be the case journalists have been seeking
:57:26. > :57:28.rabbits from hats for many weeks, taking them out, and Eurosceptics
:57:29. > :57:32.have been shooting them long before David Cameron got anywhere near it.
:57:33. > :57:35.One thing I understand David Cameron will do before next weekend, he can
:57:36. > :57:43.explain what he means by this sovereignty lock, the sovereign
:57:44. > :57:46.Parliament will be... That is all smoke and mirrors. It is but it is
:57:47. > :57:50.the one thing he has got left. It is something they can do in domestic
:57:51. > :57:53.law and explain how the Supreme Court here will hold the European
:57:54. > :57:58.Court to the letter of the European treaty. It is effectively getting a
:57:59. > :58:02.British court to say that the European Court is not adhering to
:58:03. > :58:05.its own treaties. If the summit finishes on Friday I suspect he will
:58:06. > :58:08.unveil that either at a press conference or we will see him doing
:58:09. > :58:13.Andrew Marr next Sunday and telling the world all about it. He is going
:58:14. > :58:16.to do Andrew Marr next Sunday. Politically the Prime Minister would
:58:17. > :58:21.be in trouble with his own party if this deal was further watered down,
:58:22. > :58:24.wouldn't he? He needed to be strengthened. I'm hearing stories
:58:25. > :58:30.coming out of Brussels saying there is a rabbit or two, but whether they
:58:31. > :58:36.are tiny little rabbits or great big ones I don't know. I think this is a
:58:37. > :58:40.campaign that will be won by fear, not by terrific bribes and isn't the
:58:41. > :58:45.deal wonderful? What Philip Hammond said this morning was very
:58:46. > :58:48.important, that if we vote to leave, Europe will make sure our conditions
:58:49. > :58:54.are as bad as possible for fear of the whole thing falling apart, other
:58:55. > :58:58.countries peeling off. That's the serious threat. The idea that we
:58:59. > :59:02.will get a wonderful deal out of Europe or that France will go on
:59:03. > :59:05.being our border guards and look after our camp in Calais, I think
:59:06. > :59:11.it's those sorts of fears that will win it. If Mr Sarkozy wins in
:59:12. > :59:16.France, it could change the camp whether we are in or outcome he is
:59:17. > :59:20.campaigning on that. He could, that's true. Next year is next year.
:59:21. > :59:28.The problem with all these things, like the out campaign saying if in,
:59:29. > :59:33.Europe will react like this, none of that is provable until it happens.
:59:34. > :59:41.We had a close colleague of Angela Merkel today warning that it would
:59:42. > :59:45.be bloody, our terms, if we leave. And why shouldn't they say that
:59:46. > :59:54.There's no point in issuing the threat afterwards. If they want to
:59:55. > :59:57.threaten, now is the time. Doesn't mean he's not a good man just
:59:58. > :00:00.because we haven't heard from him, but we haven't. It seems, I was
:00:01. > :00:05.suggesting, that Michael Gove, in terms of which Cabinet ministers are
:00:06. > :00:08.going to go with remain and which ones are going to go without, it
:00:09. > :00:14.seems that Michael Gove is becoming the pivotal figure, here.
:00:15. > :00:17.Suggestions that if he decides to go out, and apparently he is incredibly
:00:18. > :00:22.anguished about this, Boris Johnson could well follow. If he doesn't,
:00:23. > :00:26.they might not. Michael Gove is genuinely torn. Downing Street were
:00:27. > :00:30.very confident at the beginning of this year that Michael Gove would be
:00:31. > :00:34.with the Prime Minister. But anybody that has no Michael Gove, and are
:00:35. > :00:38.used to be his colleague, he will know that in his heart of hearts he
:00:39. > :00:41.would like to get Britain out of the European Union, it is as simple as
:00:42. > :00:45.that. At he knows that if he campaigns to take Britain out of
:00:46. > :00:50.Europe, what he is essentially doing is joining a campaign which, if
:00:51. > :00:53.successful, will destroy David Cameron's Korea, and George
:00:54. > :00:57.Osborne's and hand the Tory leadership to the two people in the
:00:58. > :01:03.Conservative Party he loathes more than anybody else, Theresa May and
:01:04. > :01:07.Boris Johnson. So he is torn. The thing about Boris Johnson, in his
:01:08. > :01:10.heart of hearts, believes Britain should be in the European Union But
:01:11. > :01:14.there is one thing Boris Johnson believes more than that, which is
:01:15. > :01:18.that Boris Johnson should be Prime Minister. Therefore he needs to do
:01:19. > :01:24.what is best for that, which is why he needs this sort of thing.
:01:25. > :01:28.Grateful for that blinding revelation that Boris Johnson wants
:01:29. > :01:33.to be Prime Minister. If Cameron can keep Michael Gove on board, there
:01:34. > :01:38.will be fewer defections other than the usual suspects? I think that's
:01:39. > :01:41.right. Somebody described him to me as the big Domino and if he falls,
:01:42. > :01:49.others could. Cameron is trying quite hard. He had Gove in last week
:01:50. > :01:53.trying to persuade him. What they think they've got is an enlargement
:01:54. > :01:57.from Gove that if he does opt to follow his conscience and vote out
:01:58. > :02:00.he will not do much campaigning I suspect he would do one interview
:02:01. > :02:04.and sit the thing out, and they think if he is not out there leading
:02:05. > :02:08.it, that will not do quite as much damage. We know Alan Johnson is
:02:09. > :02:13.heading up the labour effort to stay in, but is Jeremy Corbyn really
:02:14. > :02:17.going to campaign hard to stay in? Is the Labour Party going to spend
:02:18. > :02:23.money on this campaign? I very much doubt it. It's not in his heart His
:02:24. > :02:27.instincts are to pick up the wrong issue, today there he is saying that
:02:28. > :02:32.he thinks Cameron is wrong on immigration, we should have much
:02:33. > :02:35.easier immigration, he shouldn't be trying to cut back the number of EU
:02:36. > :02:40.migrants coming into the country. That is no way to win it, I presume
:02:41. > :02:47.he knows it. It's very important that Labour voters are brought on
:02:48. > :02:51.board. Mr Cameron needs them, too. Cameron really needs Labour voters.
:02:52. > :02:55.It ought to be the great, strong, uniting message for Labour.
:02:56. > :02:59.Virtually all Labour MPs are strongly in favour part from a
:03:00. > :03:04.maverick hand. Quite the clear majority of the Parliamentary party.
:03:05. > :03:07.It should have been a big contrast, Labour pro-European, Tories all over
:03:08. > :03:11.the place. I'm afraid Jeremy Corbyn will muddy that.
:03:12. > :03:28.final debate when he laid into the European Union. He hates the new
:03:29. > :03:36.free trade area. He said he would support our membership but push four
:03:37. > :03:40.reform from within. A few days before the big summit which is meant
:03:41. > :03:45.to clinch it one way or the other are we heading for a June 23
:03:46. > :03:49.referendum? Almost certainly and thank God. So we can plan our summer
:03:50. > :03:54.holidays and ministers and advisers feel the same. Never mind about the
:03:55. > :03:58.needs of the nation. It looks like there will be some kind of deal and
:03:59. > :04:03.they may give him a bit more in some areas. Cameron is determined to
:04:04. > :04:06.press on with this, he does not want this hanging over his government.
:04:07. > :06:30.Every Monday he Will have backed out of the
:06:31. > :06:35.referendum, that is a factor in several politicians cut relations
:06:36. > :06:41.right now. As I discovered, the front runners have been very coy
:06:42. > :06:55.about it all. What is this about? A programme about the Tory leadership.
:06:56. > :06:59.What on earth is the relevance of that to your
:07:00. > :07:01.many millions of viewers when you consider that there is no,
:07:02. > :07:03.thankfully, thankfully, and there is no vacancy
:07:04. > :07:07.Nor is there going to be one for a very long time.
:07:08. > :07:13.Oh well, maybe I'll get lucky with some of the other
:07:14. > :07:15.Apparently, Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, might
:07:16. > :07:17.Speculation surrounds the Welsh Secretary,
:07:18. > :07:19.Stephen Crabb, Education Secretary Nicky Morgan
:07:20. > :07:20.once a female candidate, preferably her.
:07:21. > :07:23.Defra Secretary, Liz Truss is repeated to be ambitious.
:07:24. > :07:24.There are mutterings about Business Secretary,
:07:25. > :07:27.Sajid Javid, but is he really angling to be the next
:07:28. > :07:32.And is a leadership bid while Michael Gove is swinging over
:07:33. > :07:33.which side to back in the referendum.
:07:34. > :07:39.Energy Minister, Andrea Leadsom is holding surgeries in the Commons
:07:40. > :07:41.tearoom and a mystery member of the 2015 intake is rumoured
:07:42. > :07:44.to have big plans and Employment Minister and arch
:07:45. > :07:46.Eurosceptic Priti Patel is expected to have a profile-boosting
:07:47. > :07:52.role in the Out Campaign and then there is Liam Fox.
:07:53. > :07:56.This week, a poll on the website run by
:07:57. > :07:58.Paul Goodman found that the former Defence Secretary was favourite
:07:59. > :08:10.If you speculate that the hard right of Conservative Party membership,
:08:11. > :08:15.is about a fifth of it, that sounds fair enough.
:08:16. > :08:18.What was remarkable about his score was in fact how low it was,
:08:19. > :08:20.it was the joint-lowest score for a leading
:08:21. > :08:27.A lot of this is total nonsense, but it presages
:08:28. > :08:29.potentially three years of Tory leadership gossip for the people
:08:30. > :08:57.The Tory party would be in a leadership crisis but the country
:08:58. > :09:04.would be in a huge political crisis. It would go on for years. It would
:09:05. > :09:08.take at least smack years of very painful negotiations, maybe longer,
:09:09. > :09:12.to get us out of these treaties Nobody has done it before, nobody
:09:13. > :09:19.knows what it would look like. Cameron would have to go. The
:09:20. > :09:23.humiliation would be appalling. Osborne's chances would be shot to
:09:24. > :09:28.pieces. By then, the country might have changed its mind and be upset
:09:29. > :09:32.by having narrowly voted against for getting out. They might regret it.
:09:33. > :09:40.Where does that leave whoever the future leader is? Do you agree? This
:09:41. > :09:45.whole contest will boil down to several binary choices, in and out
:09:46. > :09:51.of Europe, George Osborne and not George Osborne. Boris Johnson Atmos
:09:52. > :09:55.Boris Johnson. Woman and man. - or not Boris Johnson. Depending on the
:09:56. > :10:00.circumstances we will find a leader. The young and old. 2015 intake are
:10:01. > :10:03.getting bored about George Osborne is nearly inevitable and if not him,
:10:04. > :10:07.Boris Johnson. They are thinking about running one of their own.
:10:08. > :10:11.There are names that we haven't even considered that may enter the fray.
:10:12. > :10:15.David Cameron might not go immediately but if he has to go he
:10:16. > :10:20.would be the walking wounded through the summer and into the autumn. Mr
:10:21. > :10:26.George Osborne probably the same. He kind of throws everything open. It
:10:27. > :10:30.stars. There is a lot of chat amongst ministers about what happens
:10:31. > :10:35.if we vote to leave -- it does. The Prime Minister says we trigger at
:10:36. > :10:40.ago 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, two years negotiation and I should do
:10:41. > :10:44.that -- at Article 50. One school of thought is that the prime and will
:10:45. > :10:49.bring in David Davies as the Deputy Prime Minister and lead the exit
:10:50. > :10:53.negotiations but I can't see that. I think that will be a leadership
:10:54. > :10:58.contest and the defining feature is who is the best person to lead those
:10:59. > :11:02.exit negotiations. And you would assume that a minister who has said
:11:03. > :11:06.we should leave would be best placed. Maybe it will be possible to
:11:07. > :11:10.have administered through said we should be in but maybe not wholly
:11:11. > :11:18.involved in the remaining campaign. A good Eurosceptic track record
:11:19. > :11:21.Boris Johnson? Theresa May Possibly. Do you want Boris Johnson
:11:22. > :11:26.negotiating the future of the treaty over two years? I think Boris
:11:27. > :11:30.Johnson's position will be weaker than anyone things because of the
:11:31. > :11:37.dithering. It is so transparent and nakedly ambitious. Whether he is
:11:38. > :11:40.fought in or out. Anybody who is interested in politics feels
:11:41. > :11:44.passionately in or out and he can't pretend to be waiting for these
:11:45. > :11:47.minor negotiations on this fundamental issue that he has
:11:48. > :11:53.tackled all his life. Even if we wrote to remain, what is your view
:11:54. > :11:57.on what is sometimes called even if we vote to remain, the
:11:58. > :12:00.Conservatives, whose heart would not have been in remaining, will want
:12:01. > :12:07.someone to lead them after Mr Cameron, much later, who was Brexit?
:12:08. > :12:13.There is a strong case for that Most of the polls suggest that 0%
:12:14. > :12:20.of the conservative grassroot is a Brexitier. There are polls which
:12:21. > :12:23.show, to speak up for Boris, that he is wildly more popular than any
:12:24. > :12:27.other conservative. There are conservative MPs who will look at
:12:28. > :12:31.those polls, the one in the Independent this morning he is the
:12:32. > :12:36.only main stream politician who has a positive rating. This is a 2-stage
:12:37. > :12:42.process, the MPs put you on the ballot paper, the grassroots people
:12:43. > :12:48.select you. Only two names go forward. You need to get past the
:12:49. > :12:53.MPs and then make your case to the wider. If Boris gets through, to
:12:54. > :12:57.being one of the final two, given his popularity with the Tory
:12:58. > :13:01.grassroots, could change, it could be skin deep, I don't know, but
:13:02. > :13:05.wouldn't he be an unstoppable? He doesn't have a huge backing at
:13:06. > :13:10.Westminster, a lot of MPs don't know him. Will he survive the rigours of
:13:11. > :13:14.a campaign? The interview on the Andrew Marr show, he faced awkward
:13:15. > :13:19.questions about one of his friends. You assume he will get through that
:13:20. > :13:23.process. We are talking about a contest after we have voted to stay
:13:24. > :13:28.in. Important lesson from 1975, Harold Wilson was a massively
:13:29. > :13:32.strengthened after that win. He moved Tony Benn at the crucial post
:13:33. > :13:34.of industry because he was very strong. The Prime Minister will
:13:35. > :13:40.pretty strong on that. Remember, if it's Sunday,
:13:41. > :13:45.it's the Sunday Politics.