:00:40. > :00:43.Morning folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:44. > :00:47.After Friday's failed coup, the crackdown in Turkey begins
:00:48. > :00:48.with thousands of arrests and threats of retribution,
:00:49. > :00:52.including the death penalty for rebels.
:00:53. > :00:53.What does the turmoil mean for Turkey's future,
:00:54. > :01:01.Nato and the fight against Islamic State?
:01:02. > :01:06.I wish you all the best and I am supporting you all the way. Do I get
:01:07. > :01:09.a hug? Jeremy Corbyn's confident
:01:10. > :01:11.that his fans will ensure he's re-elected - but he tells us
:01:12. > :01:13.that the rules of Labour's leadership election are unfair
:01:14. > :01:16.and the party's national executive She was a "Remainer"
:01:17. > :01:19.but Theresa May's promised to deliver on the voters' verdict
:01:20. > :01:22.and take us out of the EU - but how quickly will Brexit come
:01:23. > :01:27.and what should it look like? In London, with Labour in turmoil,
:01:28. > :01:30.we're profiling the place with the largest party membership
:01:31. > :01:32.in the UK. What's drawing people
:01:33. > :01:42.to Labour in London? Since we broadcast last week,
:01:43. > :01:46.a new Prime Minister, a new government, carnage in Nice
:01:47. > :01:51.and an attempted coup in Turkey The unexpected is now
:01:52. > :01:53.commonplace, major news events But one thing that doesn't change
:01:54. > :02:01.here on Sunday mornings is that we always bring you the best
:02:02. > :02:04.and the brightest political panel in the business -
:02:05. > :02:06.Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott So Friday night's attempted army
:02:07. > :02:11.coup in Turkey failed and President Erdogan has moved
:02:12. > :02:14.ruthlessly to re-establish He says the coup was "a gift from
:02:15. > :02:23.God" because it gives him a reason A major clampdown on dissent is now
:02:24. > :02:26.widely anticipated, Let's get the latest
:02:27. > :02:46.from our Correspondent Is it underway? Is it expected to be
:02:47. > :02:51.pretty ruthless? Yes. It is underway. The crackdown has already
:02:52. > :02:57.taken place. Around 3000 soldiers have been detained including
:02:58. > :03:02.high-ranking generals and around 3000 judges have been dismissed from
:03:03. > :03:08.their posts. Many judges have also been detained. President Recep
:03:09. > :03:14.Tayyip Erdogan had already said that those behind the coup attempt would
:03:15. > :03:19.be paying a heavy price and that is what we are seeing at the moment.
:03:20. > :03:26.Many people think that the crackdown will further deepen. The government
:03:27. > :03:30.thinks that the movement of Fethullah Gulen is behind this
:03:31. > :03:36.attempt. That is something that Fethullah Gulen denies. He is a
:03:37. > :03:41.cleric based in Pennsylvania, Annex aisle who used to be on good terms
:03:42. > :03:53.with the government, and Mr Hird one himself. -- Mr Erdogan. Fethullah
:03:54. > :04:00.Gulen has said he has been involved includes himself, but he played no
:04:01. > :04:06.part in this one. Although the square would normally be packed with
:04:07. > :04:09.hundreds of tourists, the beauty of Istanbul being celebrated, but last
:04:10. > :04:13.night it was a different story, packed with hundreds of supporters
:04:14. > :04:17.of the government, chanting slogans like, God is great, in protest of
:04:18. > :04:22.the coup attempt. They adhered to the call coming from President
:04:23. > :04:27.Erdogan to take it out to the streets. They were jubilant because
:04:28. > :04:32.they felt empowered, in the part they played in suppressing the coup
:04:33. > :04:37.attempt. If there was a source of resistance to President is Erdogan,
:04:38. > :04:41.it was not the army, and I would suggest that he is going to take
:04:42. > :04:44.over the army, and he will have complete control. He was already
:04:45. > :04:54.pretty authoritarian before this happened. Is Turkey now in danger of
:04:55. > :05:02.a dictatorship? That is a question that many people asked. In Turkey
:05:03. > :05:07.and in the world. People who do not necessarily aligned themselves with
:05:08. > :05:12.the government policies were already cautious about Mr Erdogan's
:05:13. > :05:17.tendencies about getting more executive powers. It is no secret
:05:18. > :05:20.that President Erdogan once to change the parliamentary system in
:05:21. > :05:25.Turkey to a presidential system which would give him powers that no
:05:26. > :05:31.other president has seen before in Turkey. And now that he has managed
:05:32. > :05:36.to suppress this coup attempt, many people in Turkey fear that this
:05:37. > :05:40.could actually play into the hands of Mr Hird one, and turn the country
:05:41. > :05:46.into an alt. Chrissie, as you have said. -- way into the hands of Mr
:05:47. > :05:52.Erdogan. But on the other hand, Mr Erdogan's supporters are jubilant
:05:53. > :05:55.and they think that this was a victory of democracy. Yesterday the
:05:56. > :05:59.Turkish parliament convened an extraordinary session and all the
:06:00. > :06:06.opposition parties supported the government. The portrayed a stand
:06:07. > :06:10.against the coup attempt. The Prime Minister thanked them and said that
:06:11. > :06:16.this could be a threshold moment for Turkish politics but considering
:06:17. > :06:22.that Turkey is a polarised country and politics is divided, whether the
:06:23. > :06:27.government can bring everybody together after these 48 hours of
:06:28. > :06:31.trauma, it is a difficult task. They give very much. -- thank you very
:06:32. > :06:32.much. We're joined by the Foreign Affairs
:06:33. > :06:40.analyst, Tim Marshall. Let's look back at what happened
:06:41. > :06:45.here. The Turkish army, traditionally does not like Islamist
:06:46. > :06:54.leaning governments and has mounted three successful coups, turning
:06:55. > :06:59.Turkey to a more secular at two secular government. What was this, a
:07:00. > :07:02.gang that could not shoot straight or the keystone cops to make a bit
:07:03. > :07:07.of both. It was white, they did most of the right things but they did not
:07:08. > :07:13.have the depth above them. Above them, they had no support. They made
:07:14. > :07:16.two massive errors. They did not kill President Erdogan. That is the
:07:17. > :07:23.first thing you should do. I am not advocating it! It is a 101 guide to
:07:24. > :07:30.coups! But that is paragraph one, kill or at least capture the
:07:31. > :07:35.president. And shut down the media. They went to the state television,
:07:36. > :07:38.and in the 20th century, all the media was in one building and you
:07:39. > :07:45.would close it down. But they forgot that in the 21st-century, there was
:07:46. > :07:51.CNN Turkey still on a, and they did not close down social media, so Mr
:07:52. > :07:57.Erdogan, who hates social media and Twitter, pepper and --
:07:58. > :08:01.hypocritically gets onto Facebook and says to Turkey, get into the
:08:02. > :08:05.streets and because the coup is white and not deep, very soon the
:08:06. > :08:10.call to prayer goes out, and they know it is not the proper time, and
:08:11. > :08:13.it means going to the street. Within half an hour, the people outnumber
:08:14. > :08:22.the troops and the pendulum swings the other way. If Turkey faces a
:08:23. > :08:29.serious clamp-down, a move from authoritarianism to something
:08:30. > :08:32.bordering on dictator -- a dictatorship, this surely has huge
:08:33. > :08:38.obligations for Turkey's relations with America and the EU? And for the
:08:39. > :08:43.fight with Islamic State. This goes from being a domestic event to one
:08:44. > :08:49.with regional and geopolitical implications. And a Nato member
:08:50. > :08:54.It's funny, we talk about him all the time, but as your correspondent
:08:55. > :08:57.said, this is a parliamentary republic, where traditionally the
:08:58. > :09:02.president is simply a figurehead but because he is so dominant and has
:09:03. > :09:07.total control of the HK party, all he had to do was switch from one job
:09:08. > :09:14.to the next. And all the power went with him because of the atmosphere
:09:15. > :09:18.at not because of the law. But he tried last year to move the powers
:09:19. > :09:22.legally into his office. He is closing down the media, he is now
:09:23. > :09:32.getting rid of the remnants in the Army that art not with him, and he
:09:33. > :09:41.has the support of the mosques and parliament. It is becoming a
:09:42. > :09:49.democratic dictatorship, a phrase I came up with for the loss of itch in
:09:50. > :09:53.Serbia, you bring two new radio stations out that broadcast so
:09:54. > :10:00.loudly that free speech is still allowed, but it cannot be heard
:10:01. > :10:07.Remember the Civil War was the Kurds? That will just be utterly
:10:08. > :10:15.ruthless. This is a hugely historic event in Turkey's history because
:10:16. > :10:19.previous army coups have won and he will now take out the army as an
:10:20. > :10:24.independent force and it will become much more authoritarian, perhaps
:10:25. > :10:27.even autocratic. Where does this leave Western relations with Turkey?
:10:28. > :10:32.I think we can agree that it is not going to join the European Union any
:10:33. > :10:37.time soon so we can scotch that one. I think the ultimate dilemma must be
:10:38. > :10:40.for Nato. It is a security organisation but it is also an
:10:41. > :10:43.organisation defined by certain values and practices and if
:10:44. > :10:47.President Erdogan responds to the coup attempt by tightening freedoms
:10:48. > :10:52.further, by intervening against the judiciary and the Armed Forces
:10:53. > :10:55.further, then there must be a dilemma at some stage for Nato. I
:10:56. > :11:03.thought it might have been telling that three or four hours, I don t
:11:04. > :11:07.know if Tim agrees, for the US at least, if not Nato, to say anything
:11:08. > :11:11.about the coup, when they did they did not mention President Erdogan by
:11:12. > :11:16.name. I don't know if that suggests they know what side there bread is
:11:17. > :11:19.buttered on and they were waiting to see if the coup would succeed. But
:11:20. > :11:26.it is a huge event for the West and Turkey. The state was founded on
:11:27. > :11:29.secular ideals. The Armed Forces have always been seen as an
:11:30. > :11:32.invigilator of government. I am right in saying that the Turkish
:11:33. > :11:35.president has never been commander-in-chief, officially, in
:11:36. > :11:40.the way that a US president would be. Or a French president. Many
:11:41. > :11:44.people think that what he wants to do is create an executive style
:11:45. > :11:47.French presidency. You would still have a parliament and a Prime
:11:48. > :11:51.Minister but it would be the president that matters, rather than
:11:52. > :11:58.just being head of state. Turkey has been so pivotal, first of all in
:11:59. > :12:02.dealing with the migrant crisis in the eastern Mediterranean, with the
:12:03. > :12:11.situation in Syria, and Islamic State, and in the region as a
:12:12. > :12:16.regional superpower that balances Iran and even Saudi Arabia. We don't
:12:17. > :12:20.know where this is going to lead now. And has been talk for a long
:12:21. > :12:24.time about how it is massively in the interest of the West to have a
:12:25. > :12:30.stable Turkey. It has not been stable for some time and it will not
:12:31. > :12:35.be, even if this coup was a somewhat silly, ill thought through coup it
:12:36. > :12:39.is clearly destabilising and will have consequences for a long time to
:12:40. > :12:42.come. I would be interesting to -- I would be interested to hear from Tim
:12:43. > :12:47.whether the EU has some leveraged because Turkey's desire to join it.
:12:48. > :12:52.That dynamic, although clearly not the agenda in spite of the farcical
:12:53. > :12:57.things said during the referendum campaign, that gives the EU some
:12:58. > :13:05.leveraged in reshaping what happens in Turkey. You wonder if that is
:13:06. > :13:08.even on his mind. It will not be. But the president has so many
:13:09. > :13:13.domestic fish to fry, and that might not be a very good metaphor given
:13:14. > :13:16.what he is about to do. If he is about to reintroduce the death
:13:17. > :13:21.penalty, it becomes very difficult to talk about Turkey being part of
:13:22. > :13:24.the EU. What do our diplomats do? It is in our interest to encourage the
:13:25. > :13:30.dreamer but it does not look compatible with the way that things
:13:31. > :13:37.are being carried out. Remarkably, these events in Gneiss had been
:13:38. > :13:41.overshadowed by Turkey and yet it only happened on Thursday night and
:13:42. > :13:45.this is Sunday morning. I suggest that the reaction in France to Nice
:13:46. > :13:53.is going to be very different. Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, there
:13:54. > :13:56.was great solidarity and it brought France together. I think this is
:13:57. > :14:00.different because people have had enough and it is different because
:14:01. > :14:05.there are clear security questions. No barrier on the promenade. We are
:14:06. > :14:08.told that there was a barrier when the military parades took place but
:14:09. > :14:14.it was removed after words, and already the politicians are ganging
:14:15. > :14:18.up on the government and this is becoming a major pre-election issue.
:14:19. > :14:20.That's right. The election is next year and Marine Le Pen is
:14:21. > :14:26.positioning herself very strongly with the National Front. There is a
:14:27. > :14:30.public divided on how to approach it and even if this is not Islamic
:14:31. > :14:34.State, and I am not convinced that it is, it happens in the context of
:14:35. > :14:40.Islamic State and of mass slaughter in the name of something. It is
:14:41. > :14:45.another chip away at our freedoms. And that is, in itself, a success.
:14:46. > :14:50.They are going to continue. I believe the rise of the right is far
:14:51. > :14:58.from Peking. And it plays absolutely into next year's presidential
:14:59. > :15:02.election. Going back from the presidential election, that all
:15:03. > :15:05.comes into what the EU is going to look like. We are in a state of
:15:06. > :15:09.flux. You are old enough, forgive me, Andrew, to know that everybody
:15:10. > :15:14.always says it has never been as bad as now and it is always untrue. But
:15:15. > :15:15.it is actually more corrugated than I have ever known it. And you may
:15:16. > :15:20.agree. I do agree. The Conservatives completed
:15:21. > :15:21.their leadership contest in a matter of days,
:15:22. > :15:24.Labour's has barely begun. There are now two candidates
:15:25. > :15:26.standing against Jeremy Corbyn Angela Eagle and Owen Smith -
:15:27. > :15:30.but the Labour Leader has told us that the rules which exclude
:15:31. > :15:32.recently signed up members from voting in the contest
:15:33. > :15:34.are unfair and he wants the party's national executive
:15:35. > :15:36.to change them. Adam Fleming went for a walk
:15:37. > :15:43.in the park with Mr Corbyn. This is the lake that was built
:15:44. > :15:46.here in the 19th century, rather strange lake on the top
:15:47. > :15:49.of the hill. I went for a stroll
:15:50. > :15:54.round the Labour leader's favourite local beauty spot -
:15:55. > :16:00.Finsbury Park in north London. Do you have time to take a casual
:16:01. > :16:03.stroll with a journalist Yes, because doing things
:16:04. > :16:07.in a relaxed way is important, and doing other things is important,
:16:08. > :16:11.so going to a park, being in your However busy I am, my
:16:12. > :16:23.allotment is tended. It's in good order, we had a good
:16:24. > :16:27.crop of broad beans and we ate A slightly less relaxing
:16:28. > :16:31.part of his week. At a meeting of Labour's national
:16:32. > :16:33.executive on Tuesday, Jeremy Corbyn secured an automatic
:16:34. > :16:36.place in the leadership election. But he's not happy with new rules
:16:37. > :16:40.that say people who joined the party There's going to be some quite
:16:41. > :16:46.intense discussions over the next few days, I suspect,
:16:47. > :16:48.and I hope our party officials and National Executive will see
:16:49. > :16:52.sense on this and recognise that those people who have freely
:16:53. > :16:56.given their time and money to join the Labour Party should be welcomed
:16:57. > :17:00.in and given the opportunity to take part in this crucial debate,
:17:01. > :17:02.whichever way they decide to vote. I'm hoping there will be
:17:03. > :17:09.an understanding that it is simply not very fair to say to people that
:17:10. > :17:12.joined the party in the last six months, "sorry, your participation
:17:13. > :17:16.is no longer welcome because we are having
:17:17. > :17:21.a leadership contest." In the next few days,
:17:22. > :17:23.various Labour factions will be racing to sign people up
:17:24. > :17:25.as registered supporters, It costs ?25, not ?3
:17:26. > :17:35.like in the last contest. For people who can't afford the 25
:17:36. > :17:38.quid, what would you suggest If they can't afford the ?25,
:17:39. > :17:43.what they do? It seems to me the ?25 bar is quite
:17:44. > :17:48.high and not really reasonable. A lot of people have said to me
:17:49. > :17:51.people stop me in the street saying, "I would love to vote in this
:17:52. > :17:57.election but I can't afford ?25 " He is also disappointed that
:17:58. > :17:59.virtually all local party meetings have been suspended over
:18:00. > :18:04.fears of intimidation. I haven't stopped party meetings
:18:05. > :18:06.taking place and I actually I think party meetings
:18:07. > :18:11.should take place. Intimidation of any sort by anybody
:18:12. > :18:17.is absolutely wrong, but to cancel meetings
:18:18. > :18:20.because of the perception that intimidation might take place
:18:21. > :18:23.I think is a big mistake. The issues appear to be that
:18:24. > :18:27.where meetings have taken place far more people have attended
:18:28. > :18:30.than were expected and so there has been issues about how people
:18:31. > :18:32.can get in the room, whereas there's a fairly
:18:33. > :18:34.simple answer to that - Talking of meetings,
:18:35. > :18:42.who was he with when Theresa May was taking over as Prime Minister
:18:43. > :18:46.earlier this week? I was with an all-party group,
:18:47. > :18:48.including Conservatives, talking to two of the Miami five
:18:49. > :18:51.who had been in prison in Miami and were released
:18:52. > :18:54.by the court decisions of USA and the new rapprochement with Cuba
:18:55. > :18:57.and actually welcoming the fact there had been an agreement
:18:58. > :19:04.reached in Cuba. I was actually with Conservatives
:19:05. > :19:08.and Labour people. I was there for about 20 minutes,
:19:09. > :19:11.then I went back to my office And so you felt that was a good use
:19:12. > :19:16.of your time at that point when the country was transitioning
:19:17. > :19:19.from one Prime Minister to another? Informing yourself by listening
:19:20. > :19:24.to people from all kinds of walks This morning I was on the phone
:19:25. > :19:29.to friends in Istanbul and Ankara And so when an issue happens
:19:30. > :19:37.anywhere in the world, obviously I read all the briefings
:19:38. > :19:39.that I've been given, obviously I follow the news
:19:40. > :19:42.and information, but also I quite often know people in different
:19:43. > :19:45.places around the world so I call Can I get a hug
:19:46. > :19:50.for that? He also seems to know a lot
:19:51. > :19:59.of people in this park. What do you think about
:20:00. > :20:01.Angela Eagle and Owen Smith I have been trying to unregister
:20:02. > :20:15.from the Green Party so that I can register with the Labour Party
:20:16. > :20:18.so that I can support you. We were walking round
:20:19. > :20:23.with Jeremy Corbyn, What did you shout
:20:24. > :20:26.out when you saw him? I don't know what I said,
:20:27. > :20:29.something awful like... Something like "you've
:20:30. > :20:34.ruined the Labour Party". Something like, "step aside and stop
:20:35. > :20:37.ruining the Labour Party," I guess. And I couldn't let Jeremy go
:20:38. > :20:42.without introducing him to the craze sweeping the nation,
:20:43. > :20:45.Pokemon Go. He didn't seem that bothered
:20:46. > :20:48.but then he's playing a much bigger game, trying to hold onto his job,
:20:49. > :20:52.and that's no walk in the park. Our work this morning has not
:20:53. > :20:57.been in vain. And a longer version of that
:20:58. > :21:00.interview with Jeremy Corbyn We're joined now from Salford
:21:01. > :21:03.though by the Shadow Education Secretary,
:21:04. > :21:15.Angela Rayner. Welcome to the programme. Jeremy
:21:16. > :21:21.Corbyn wants to allow people who joined in the last six months of
:21:22. > :21:26.your party to vote, he thinks the ?25 fee is too high. Isn't it just
:21:27. > :21:30.typical of the chaos Labour is now in that you are holding a leadership
:21:31. > :21:36.contest before you have agreed rules? Good morning, I think it s
:21:37. > :21:40.important we recognise the Labour Party is transformed with now over
:21:41. > :21:44.half a million members joined, which is fantastic. We are the largest
:21:45. > :21:50.democratic social party across Europe. For me it is about
:21:51. > :21:54.democracy. I asked about the rules, should you be having a contest
:21:55. > :22:00.before you have agreed rules? The rules were decided at the NEC
:22:01. > :22:06.meeting which lasted seven hours, quite a lengthy marathon... You want
:22:07. > :22:11.to change them? People need to reflect upon the current situation
:22:12. > :22:15.and there has been outrage. 130 000 people have joined since the
:22:16. > :22:21.referendum, and we have got to give them the opportunity to have their
:22:22. > :22:28.voice heard. Have these 130,000 that joined after the referendum been
:22:29. > :22:32.properly vetted? That is a situation that the NEC and our party has got
:22:33. > :22:37.to approve and go through. We did it last time, we had a huge number of
:22:38. > :22:46.people join our party recently. Have that number been vetted or not? You
:22:47. > :22:51.have got to allow democracy. What we do is we ensure we get more people,
:22:52. > :22:57.more staff, more ability to deal with that issue because democracy is
:22:58. > :23:00.important, it is enshrined. Hold on, you are starting the leadership
:23:01. > :23:06.campaign and you still haven't vetted those who may be allowed to
:23:07. > :23:09.vote, that's what I mean by chaos, if not fast. I don't think it's
:23:10. > :23:17.chaotic to have over half a million people join our party and want to
:23:18. > :23:20.have a say, it is a positive step. It is if you cannot vet them come
:23:21. > :23:22.you don't know if they are members of the Socialist workers party, the
:23:23. > :23:30.Greens, the Communists, the National front, the Conservatives. You have
:23:31. > :23:36.no idea. We have 130,000 people who have joined in the last three weeks,
:23:37. > :23:40.which the Conservative Party have around 150,000 members per se. We
:23:41. > :23:45.have over half a million members so we are doing a great job. The
:23:46. > :23:49.Trotskyists and other groups you are suggesting may be trying to join our
:23:50. > :23:53.party, they are not in the great numbers we see at the moment. It is
:23:54. > :23:59.important to give people a say about the future of our country and party.
:24:00. > :24:02.I love democracy. Will you definitely be voting for Mr Corbyn
:24:03. > :24:09.this time because you didn't last time. No, I supported Andy Burnham
:24:10. > :24:13.last time, but I recognise Jeremy Corbyn had a significant mandate to
:24:14. > :24:18.lead our party. I don't think it's time to have a leadership contest. I
:24:19. > :24:23.will not be nominating another candidate, I will be recognising our
:24:24. > :24:33.democratically elected leader. I asked who you will be voting for. I
:24:34. > :24:41.will be supporting -- our democratically elected leader. Can
:24:42. > :24:47.you say the words, I will vote for Jeremy Corbyn? I have made it clear
:24:48. > :24:55.what my position is, and that's about democracy and our members
:24:56. > :24:59.making... Are you or aren't you I have told you I will be supporting
:25:00. > :25:03.our democratically elected leader of our party. I want to hold the
:25:04. > :25:11.Government to account, we have a bill coming up on Tuesday... I'm
:25:12. > :25:16.puzzled, are you voting for Mr Corbyn? Your viewers want to see us
:25:17. > :25:21.holding this Government to account. I have tried to answer your question
:25:22. > :25:26.but you don't want to listen to my answer. Could you name the person
:25:27. > :25:30.you will be voting for in this election? I will be listening to our
:25:31. > :25:35.membership and in the meantime holding the Government to account
:25:36. > :25:41.and supporting our democratically elected leader of our party, which
:25:42. > :25:48.is Jeremy Corbyn. A new poll shows Theresa May leads Jeremy Corbyn 58%
:25:49. > :25:52.to 19, on who would make the better Prime Minister. It shows 40% of
:25:53. > :25:57.Labour voters think Theresa May would make a better Prime Minister.
:25:58. > :26:04.Why are you backing, if you are I'm still not clear, why are you backing
:26:05. > :26:10.a loser? Our party is seen as quite divided and divided parties never
:26:11. > :26:13.win elections. We don't disagree on policy points, we have to get our
:26:14. > :26:17.policy points across to the electorate and then they will
:26:18. > :26:21.decide. Theresa May has the challenge of bringing her
:26:22. > :26:24.Conservative Party together. There was no competition, no democracy
:26:25. > :26:29.within the Conservative Party in terms of who they wanted as leader.
:26:30. > :26:33.She has a job to do because the country has never been more divided
:26:34. > :26:41.than it is now and that's directly as a result of the Conservatives.
:26:42. > :26:47.You all seem to have a job to do. Speaking of Mrs May, is the Labour
:26:48. > :26:51.Party now the nasty party? No, Theresa May had it right, the
:26:52. > :26:56.Conservatives continue to be so They are cutting education funding
:26:57. > :27:01.by up to 8% in this Parliament, they want to prioritise the NHS and have
:27:02. > :27:06.already been creeping that in. They are not on the side of ordinary
:27:07. > :27:10.people in this country. Theresa May has said she wants the Conservatives
:27:11. > :27:14.to be a party for everybody and working people across the country.
:27:15. > :27:21.Now her words have to be matched by actions. Let me ask you this about
:27:22. > :27:27.Labour. Meetings of constituency Labour parties have been suspended
:27:28. > :27:32.from fear of intimidation. There are death threats and violence, a brick
:27:33. > :27:38.thrown through the window of the office block where Angela Eagle s
:27:39. > :27:43.constituency is housed. Police have had to investigate. I ask again is
:27:44. > :27:48.it not Labour that is the nasty party? I think any act of abuse and
:27:49. > :27:51.intimidation is disgusting in politics and many politicians from
:27:52. > :27:55.all sides of the house have had death threats and threats of
:27:56. > :27:59.violence, and that has got to be stamped out of a modern democracy.
:28:00. > :28:05.Why is it in the Labour Party this is happening? It happens across the
:28:06. > :28:10.spectrum in politics and it is disgusting. But it cannot stop
:28:11. > :28:13.democracy either, we have got to continue to uphold and enshrined our
:28:14. > :28:17.democracy in everything we do because it is important. It means a
:28:18. > :28:21.lot to a lot of people but you cannot win on democracy by abusing,
:28:22. > :28:25.threatening and intimidating the other side of the argument. You have
:28:26. > :28:31.got to have a constructive debate and people have got to have their
:28:32. > :28:34.democratic right to vote. Thanks for being with us this morning.
:28:35. > :28:36.Now, despite signing up to David Cameron's Remain strategy,
:28:37. > :28:38.our new Prime Minister has put navigating the UK's departure
:28:39. > :28:41.from the EU and retaining the union at the centre
:28:42. > :28:44.We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general
:28:45. > :28:47.The appointment of three key Cabinet positions to Brexiteers - Boris
:28:48. > :28:49.Johnson, David Davis, and Liam Fox - reflects this.
:28:50. > :28:52.A few days before his appointment, the Brexit Secretary set
:28:53. > :28:56.out how he'd proceed with separation from the EU.
:28:57. > :28:58.He said triggering new trade talks were a
:28:59. > :29:01.priority and wanted the UK to negotiate free-trade deals with
:29:02. > :29:09.Mr Davis believes the UK should not budge on control of our borders but
:29:10. > :29:11.the tariff-free access to the EU single market is still his preferred
:29:12. > :29:18.The Brexit Secretary acknowledged that talks with the
:29:19. > :29:19.Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland governments
:29:20. > :29:24.And Theresa May made the first step on Thursday, telling
:29:25. > :29:26.Nicola Sturgeon in Edinburgh that she is willing to listen
:29:27. > :29:28.to options on Scotland's future relationship
:29:29. > :29:34.Mrs May said Britain would not rush into
:29:35. > :29:36.Brexit negotiations and would need some time to prepare.
:29:37. > :29:38.However, Mr Davis said Article 50 should be
:29:39. > :29:47.and mean Britain would be out of the EU by January
:29:48. > :29:54.We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general
:29:55. > :29:56.Dominic Grieve, who campaigned for Remain, and the Labour MP
:29:57. > :29:59.who chaired the Vote Leave campaign, Gisela Stewart.
:30:00. > :30:09.We are joined by Dominic Grieve and the chairman of the boat Leave
:30:10. > :30:18.campaign, Gisela Stuart. -- Vote Leave. As Theresa May delivered I
:30:19. > :30:21.think she has. I think it was important that you made clear that
:30:22. > :30:28.Brexit meant Brexit. We had to make a clear that there was no second
:30:29. > :30:33.referendum in the offering. That required certainty for the country.
:30:34. > :30:37.Are you satisfied with that? I am completely satisfied with her
:30:38. > :30:40.approach, yes. It is clear that the vote, as expressed in the
:30:41. > :30:44.referendum, has to be respected We have to take forward a programme for
:30:45. > :30:49.removing the United Kingdom from the EU. Really that is going to be an
:30:50. > :30:54.immensely comported process and it also carries with it economic risks,
:30:55. > :30:59.certainly in the short to medium term. I am also open-minded as to
:31:00. > :31:03.how one best does that. I think we're going to have to respond to
:31:04. > :31:07.events as well as trying to shape them. We have seen a blueprint
:31:08. > :31:15.published by my friend and colleague, David Davis, about
:31:16. > :31:19.Britain's outside the EU. I expect that 99.9% of conservatives would
:31:20. > :31:23.subscribe to that but getting to it is more congregated. We need to
:31:24. > :31:30.unpick this bit by bit. When do we trigger article 50? You need to go
:31:31. > :31:36.in reverse, like a reverse accession process. The most important thing is
:31:37. > :31:43.trade negotiations. As I understand that you cannot have a bilateral
:31:44. > :31:49.agreement unless you have notified Article 50. But you must have some
:31:50. > :31:54.idea of the time? The sooner the better. When do you think we should
:31:55. > :31:58.trigger article 50. I think we should trigger at when there is some
:31:59. > :32:03.clarity as to what the scope of the negotiations that will follow will
:32:04. > :32:07.be. This is the first big hurdle. Clearly if our European partners do
:32:08. > :32:12.not want to negotiate with us at all, even informally, prior to
:32:13. > :32:15.triggering Article 50, that might presents difficulties but from the
:32:16. > :32:19.point of view of the Prime Minister, she will make up her own mind.
:32:20. > :32:23.Actually getting some clear idea of what it is that the United Kingdom
:32:24. > :32:28.is seeking in terms of a future relationship is going to very
:32:29. > :32:33.important. And I think it is impossible to give a particular time
:32:34. > :32:37.frame. But I agree with Gisela Stuart. But the time frame has to
:32:38. > :32:42.work and it has to be done in good time for the 2020 election, so you
:32:43. > :32:46.can work back from that. I think you can, but I think that she needs the
:32:47. > :32:49.Prime Minister needs to be given maximum flexibility about this
:32:50. > :32:53.because boxing herself in to how she goes about what is going to be one
:32:54. > :32:56.of the most difficult political transformations this country has
:32:57. > :33:00.gone through in modern times, I think that requires pragmatism. Does
:33:01. > :33:06.it require a vote of Parliament to trigger Article 50? Not necessarily.
:33:07. > :33:10.Let's come back to something. This is not just about our relationship
:33:11. > :33:18.with the EU, it is our relationship with the rest of the world.
:33:19. > :33:22.Triggering Article 50 has also been interpreted into how we talk with
:33:23. > :33:26.other countries. But we can talk with them without concluding deals?
:33:27. > :33:30.But in terms of negotiations, there comes a point that to make it
:33:31. > :33:36.meaningful, you have to trigger it. But I want to ask you, do we need a
:33:37. > :33:43.vote in parliament to trigger Article 50? Undoubtedly. It is a
:33:44. > :33:46.matter of convention. The idea that a government could take a decision
:33:47. > :33:50.of such massive importance to the United Kingdom without Parliamentary
:33:51. > :33:54.approval, it seems to me to be extremely far-fetched. It is not
:33:55. > :34:00.about law. It is about convention and reality. Do you agree? I can see
:34:01. > :34:04.the arguments from both sides but I don't think you absolutely have to
:34:05. > :34:08.do it. We have not got a lot of time, would you vote for triggering
:34:09. > :34:14.Article 50? Yes. I have made it quite clear that the result of the
:34:15. > :34:19.referendum must mean that we have to be willing to embark on the process.
:34:20. > :34:23.I put in one rider to that which is that it seems to me that any
:34:24. > :34:27.sensible decision has to be made at the time you make it. But that is
:34:28. > :34:31.not a suggestion that I am going to suddenly decide not to support
:34:32. > :34:34.triggering Article 50, but triggering Article 50 is an
:34:35. > :34:39.important political step to withdraw from the EU. One has to keep that in
:34:40. > :34:43.mind. Do you worry that people like Dominic Grieve are teeing themselves
:34:44. > :34:49.up to call for a second referendum on the nature of the deal we will
:34:50. > :34:52.do? I do. I think if there is one thing the European Union is very
:34:53. > :34:57.good at, it is that when political necessity is in the interest of both
:34:58. > :35:01.sides, they are capable of rewriting the rules. So the European Union
:35:02. > :35:08.itself has to look at the problems it faces, and then at what the best
:35:09. > :35:10.deal is. There is a danger that those who do not like the outcome of
:35:11. > :35:14.the referendum get themselves hooked on Article 50, rather than saying
:35:15. > :35:19.that there is a new reality out there and we need to deal with that
:35:20. > :35:22.in the interests of the United Kingdom. If you could bring it
:35:23. > :35:27.about, you would have a second referendum, wouldn't you? Not
:35:28. > :35:31.necessarily. The justification for having a second referendum is if the
:35:32. > :35:35.circumstances that prevail at the time and justify it because there is
:35:36. > :35:39.some legitimate question to put to the electorate. I am very wary of
:35:40. > :35:43.circumscribing oneself. The referendum is no different from the
:35:44. > :35:47.general election in this sense. It is a statement at the time of what
:35:48. > :35:51.people want in terms of the way policy is taken forward. If people's
:35:52. > :35:56.opinions change, it would be extraordinary. And I think the only
:35:57. > :36:01.way you can judge that is by looking and listening to what people are
:36:02. > :36:06.saying to you. Opinion polls can measure it. Like the opinion polls
:36:07. > :36:12.that told you your site was going to win the referendum? I am not sure I
:36:13. > :36:18.ever believe those polls. But they did. If you take a decision on the
:36:19. > :36:23.base of those polls... But what is the question that one might be
:36:24. > :36:33.asking. What the public have asked us to do is quite clear. They have
:36:34. > :36:37.given, by a majority of 1.2 million people, not insubstantial, they have
:36:38. > :36:41.said they want a fundamental change to the UK's relationship with the EU
:36:42. > :36:46.and they see that relationship as being one where we are outside of
:36:47. > :36:50.it. I have to respect that. And we have not got much time so I am going
:36:51. > :36:55.to interrupt. You have had a good save. Gisela Stuart, here is the
:36:56. > :36:59.point. There is a lot of people on the Labour side listening to Dominic
:37:00. > :37:03.Grieve and nodding their heads. Owen Smith, one of the leadership
:37:04. > :37:06.contenders, he basically wants a second referendum, and you are going
:37:07. > :37:11.to have to start gearing up for that. Do you fear that this could be
:37:12. > :37:15.foisted upon you? I think it would be a disastrous step because both
:37:16. > :37:19.political parties need to search why they were so out of step with the
:37:20. > :37:22.electorate, particularly the Labour Party. It is a Parliamentary
:37:23. > :37:26.democracy were we get elected to do a job and that is to either hold the
:37:27. > :37:31.government to account or to be the government. We have asked them and
:37:32. > :37:34.they have reflected, in large numbers, they have said that we want
:37:35. > :37:37.to leave. And they expect us to get on with the job. I am sorry to rush
:37:38. > :37:40.you but we have been short of time. It's just gone 11.35,
:37:41. > :37:42.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:37:43. > :37:45.in Scotland and Wales, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland
:37:46. > :37:47.and Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up here in 20
:37:48. > :37:50.minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday
:37:51. > :38:05.Politics where you are. What can we learn about Labour's
:38:06. > :38:10.current turmoil from the membership Mike Gapes, Labour MP
:38:11. > :38:21.for Ilford South, is here And alongside him, Mike Freer,
:38:22. > :38:25.Conservative MP for First off - with Theresa
:38:26. > :38:29.May's Cabinet in place, can we divine anything much yet
:38:30. > :38:32.about what the capital might expect? The in tray marked "London" awaiting
:38:33. > :38:41.a new Prime Minister is already Airport expansion in the south-east
:38:42. > :38:45.predominates with the seemingly never-ending delay over a decision
:38:46. > :38:49.on the third runway at Heathrow Perhaps significantly,
:38:50. > :38:52.whilst in opposition, Theresa May predicted that a third
:38:53. > :38:56.runway would result in additional flights, increased noise and more
:38:57. > :38:59.pollution, insisting the country needed a better Heathrow,
:39:00. > :39:02.not a bigger Heathrow. And recently elevated Cabinet
:39:03. > :39:06.colleagues Justine Greening, MP for Putney, and Boris Johnson,
:39:07. > :39:09.MP for Oxbridge and South Ruislip, are both vehemently opposed
:39:10. > :39:12.to a third runway. Rail and the ongoing dispute
:39:13. > :39:15.between Southern and unions are still causing severe transport
:39:16. > :39:17.disruption, with passengers One way of sorting it out
:39:18. > :39:25.would be handing it over to Transport for London,
:39:26. > :39:28.get the Mayor to run it, given that the Mayor's railways tend
:39:29. > :39:30.to be rather more popular The former Home Secretary's imprint
:39:31. > :39:34.on policing in the capital will be keenly watched,
:39:35. > :39:44.and the terrible events in Nice this week brought further scrutiny
:39:45. > :39:46.on the capital's state of preparedness to deal
:39:47. > :39:48.with future terrorist attacks. Theresa May will have to work
:39:49. > :39:50.closely with Sadiq Khan about the policing of London
:39:51. > :39:53.because you can't get away from the fact that a big city
:39:54. > :39:55.like London is always With the make-up of the new Cabinet
:39:56. > :40:00.overwhelmingly southern, it will be interesting to see
:40:01. > :40:03.whether the Government will make additional efforts support the north
:40:04. > :40:15.or focus attention What a good starting off point. This
:40:16. > :40:23.sense of southern axis, to the Cabinet. What do you might say about
:40:24. > :40:27.the priorities they might have? I think it is right that London has a
:40:28. > :40:30.strong voice. We continue to be the engine of the UK economy. And the
:40:31. > :40:34.fact that we have some strong voices around the Cabinet can only be good
:40:35. > :40:39.for the south-east. But Theresa May has said that she is not going to,
:40:40. > :40:44.she wants to ensure that the whole of the UK benefits from government.
:40:45. > :40:48.I think we will see a balanced approach but clearly things like
:40:49. > :40:51.Crossrail and Heathrow will be high on the agenda for the transport
:40:52. > :40:57.department. Almost implying there that there is a danger that you
:40:58. > :41:01.overcompensate, because you might be perceived as to Sutherland, which
:41:02. > :41:05.could have an adverse effect. I think Theresa May is too clever to
:41:06. > :41:08.overcompensate. She will make sure there is a balanced approach. We
:41:09. > :41:16.have the northern powerhouse policy, which will continue. But in terms of
:41:17. > :41:22.the issue facing the transport infrastructure in the south-east,
:41:23. > :41:25.that has already been signed off to a large degree. They have to go
:41:26. > :41:32.through a formal process, and I hope they come to a decision soon. I
:41:33. > :41:37.think I saw you raising an eyebrow about the northern powerhouse. Some
:41:38. > :41:41.of my colleagues from the northern England is questioning, who is the
:41:42. > :41:46.northern powerhouse minister and is it anything more than a George
:41:47. > :41:51.Osborne slogan? Will it continue? It is not clear yet. What do you make
:41:52. > :41:54.of Theresa May's elevation and the Cabinet two I predicted weeks ago
:41:55. > :41:59.that it would be Theresa May. I thought she would beat Michael Gove
:42:00. > :42:03.in a run-off. If you have to have a Conservative Prime Minister, I would
:42:04. > :42:08.rather have one who is competent and experienced and can try to deal with
:42:09. > :42:13.the crises that the country faces. I am also pleased that we have someone
:42:14. > :42:16.who voted to remain as Prime Minister, and therefore will try to
:42:17. > :42:20.bring the country together rather than being very divisive and
:42:21. > :42:24.controversial. Does she worry you in any respect, in terms of policing
:42:25. > :42:31.our immigration, things she has done before? She was the Home Secretary
:42:32. > :42:34.who scent they go home vans down Guildford high road in my
:42:35. > :42:42.constituency and gimmicks like that are not to be continued. Do you feel
:42:43. > :42:48.like her tenure in the Home Office is going to put her slightly out of
:42:49. > :42:52.step with the instinctive, pro immigration stance that we have in
:42:53. > :42:56.London? I have always found her very open to persuasion. If you present a
:42:57. > :43:04.strong argument, I find that she listens. In terms of the issues
:43:05. > :43:09.facing her, having Theresa May, who has been a successful Home Secretary
:43:10. > :43:13.on policing, in the driving seat... She is going to know they met inside
:43:14. > :43:19.and out. She knows all of our security issues. -- the Are met
:43:20. > :43:22.Having heard in the driving seat is very reassuring, given what is going
:43:23. > :43:27.on in the world. You mentioned Heathrow, where are we there? Do you
:43:28. > :43:32.know what her position is currently? Do you know what Philip Hammond s
:43:33. > :43:37.opinion is currently? I have never discussed those issues with either
:43:38. > :43:42.of them. What would you like them to do? I supported HS2 and Heathrow and
:43:43. > :43:46.Crossrail. I think we have to continue to play catch up with our
:43:47. > :43:49.European colleagues in terms of infrastructure investment. If we are
:43:50. > :43:53.to ensure that economic growth continues across the UK, the
:43:54. > :43:58.northern powerhouse might be more broadly based than it was under
:43:59. > :44:01.George Osborne but I think it still will be delivering infrastructure
:44:02. > :44:04.and growth. And the case for expanding Heathrow, does that become
:44:05. > :44:13.greater because of the Brexit decision? If you look at the outside
:44:14. > :44:17.of the EU, the case for Heathrow is stronger. I also have no problem
:44:18. > :44:22.with Gatwick expanding. In terms of our major hub airport, with the
:44:23. > :44:26.international links, that is Heathrow and it is becoming
:44:27. > :44:31.increasingly important in our non-EU trade deals. But with Theresa May,
:44:32. > :44:34.in a constituency just outside London, and Philip Hammond, both of
:44:35. > :44:40.them have expressed concerns before about the effect of the congestion.
:44:41. > :44:44.Boris Johnson, as we know, in Oxbridge, a long-term opponent.
:44:45. > :44:47.Justine Greening. Do you think that is spelling out the end of the
:44:48. > :44:56.notion of a third runway? There's a big difference between
:44:57. > :44:59.those who have expressed opposition and those who have expressed
:45:00. > :45:03.concerns. Round the Cabinet table they will have to do what is best
:45:04. > :45:07.for the national interest and that is what they are doing round the
:45:08. > :45:11.Cabinet, is not their constituency interests so I trust them to make
:45:12. > :45:18.the right decision for the UK, to expand Heathrow. Would you be
:45:19. > :45:25.confident of that? I hope so. We have Crossrail coming in, halving
:45:26. > :45:30.the journey time to Heathrow. Frankly Gatwick is a difficult place
:45:31. > :45:36.to get to if you are in the north. You are in favour of expanding
:45:37. > :45:43.Heathrow? I am indeed. Do you think it might be an opportunity for her
:45:44. > :45:49.to stump her mark on taking that decision? The key problem is this
:45:50. > :45:53.has dragged on so long, a decision has got to be taken, and I think
:45:54. > :46:02.there are real risks if you weaken the existing hub airport, and people
:46:03. > :46:08.in the north of England, Scotland, are all in favour of Heathrow. We
:46:09. > :46:10.have got to think of the national interest, not the constituencies
:46:11. > :46:12.under the flight path. Let's move on.
:46:13. > :46:15.It may seem to many as if Labour is locked in a struggle
:46:16. > :46:19.But in parts of London, the party has never been stronger.
:46:20. > :46:21.Take Hornsey and Wood Green which is the largest constituency
:46:22. > :46:24.Scores of new members are signing up every day.
:46:25. > :46:26.Andrew Cryan reports on what's going right.
:46:27. > :46:28.In north-east London lies the constituency
:46:29. > :46:30.of Hornsey and Wood Green, now thought to be the largest
:46:31. > :46:32.Labour Party anywhere in the country,
:46:33. > :46:39.So, a decade ago, there were 1, 00 members, there are now 4,500,
:46:40. > :46:44.a quarter of who joined just since the referendum.
:46:45. > :46:48.Where I'm standing at the moment is Stroud Green ward,
:46:49. > :46:51.where an amazing one in ten people on the electoral register is now
:46:52. > :46:57.If you want to know why, there's probably a clue in the fact
:46:58. > :46:59.that just over the boundary there is Islington North,
:47:00. > :47:06.Put it another way, this is Corbyn country.
:47:07. > :47:09.It's a part of the world with a certain spread of politics,
:47:10. > :47:11.one that, according to this local councillor, doesn't
:47:12. > :47:23.We saw that, that really came to a head in the EU referendum.
:47:24. > :47:26.Here in Crouch End we had 80% of people voting to remain.
:47:27. > :47:30.We woke up the day after that feeling quite shocked at the way
:47:31. > :47:34.We have got a leadership that is quite divorced
:47:35. > :47:36.The Parliamentary party that is divorced from
:47:37. > :47:42.And a membership of the party that, as you say, is somewhat
:47:43. > :47:47.Don't assume the local party is just a hotbed of Corbynistas.
:47:48. > :47:49.Constituency chairman Steve Hart is a veteran trade unionist.
:47:50. > :47:52.He is undecided on who to support in the leadership, but unlike other
:47:53. > :47:54.parts of the country, the internal debates
:47:55. > :48:02.Round here I think we operate fairly, democratically,
:48:03. > :48:05.respectfully, overwhelmingly, but I've seen the temperature rise.
:48:06. > :48:10.E-mails to me and to the secretary of the constituency that
:48:11. > :48:13.are frankly way over the top, and people getting very hot under
:48:14. > :48:20.the collar, making accusations that are beyond reasonable.
:48:21. > :48:23.We can handle it round here but I am... well, so far.
:48:24. > :48:26.But there has been a little local difficulty, which was all due
:48:27. > :48:28.an airing at the party's general meeting this Tuesday,
:48:29. > :48:36.Labour's governing body, the NEC, has suspended all such meetings
:48:37. > :48:41.At that meeting, there was due to be a showdown -
:48:42. > :48:42.a candidate from the Corbyn-supporting group Momentum
:48:43. > :48:47.was standing to be chairman of the local party.
:48:48. > :48:49.In effect, take over the control of running Hornsey
:48:50. > :48:55.Liam McNulty is the Momentum man making the challenge.
:48:56. > :48:58.He took us to a local cafe and explained why he was doing it.
:48:59. > :49:03.People on the local council might want to listen to this bit.
:49:04. > :49:05.We need to bring in all these new members who have
:49:06. > :49:10.There is good work being done in that, we need to continue that
:49:11. > :49:13.but also we need to work with our colleagues in Tottenham CLP
:49:14. > :49:18.as well, and make sure that what the local council is doing
:49:19. > :49:21.and Haringey Council is brought under the democratic
:49:22. > :49:27.But the Momentum grouping are yet to completely win the love
:49:28. > :49:30.of local MP Catherine West, who was one of the few members
:49:31. > :49:32.of Parliament who didn't rebel against Jeremy Corbyn.
:49:33. > :49:34.The members who have joined the Labour Party recently
:49:35. > :49:40.There is an associated group which is a Momentum group,
:49:41. > :49:43.I don't really believe in groups within groups.
:49:44. > :49:45.I think we should be in the Labour Party,
:49:46. > :49:48.and so I think perhaps if you ask other Momentum groups etc,
:49:49. > :49:50.there may have been meetings and things but the important thing
:49:51. > :49:54.is the actual Labour Party Hornsey in Wood Green is very strong,
:49:55. > :50:00.it's very large, it's a very open and courteous party.
:50:01. > :50:03.But one thing that does unite almost everyone we spoke to here locally,
:50:04. > :50:06.a strong desire to stop the party splitting, regardless of the outcome
:50:07. > :50:14.But then again, this is no ordinary local party.
:50:15. > :50:22.Joining me, journalist and author Rachel Shabi.
:50:23. > :50:29.Why are people joining? Who are they? What are their motivations for
:50:30. > :50:34.joining Labour at the moment? We are told it is in crisis. It's an
:50:35. > :50:40.important point to make that we don't have to agree with it or like
:50:41. > :50:46.it, but it seems Jeremy Corbyn has been a catalyst and galvanise for a
:50:47. > :50:52.resurgence of the left, partly to do with his anti-austerity politics,
:50:53. > :50:57.partly to do with his style. Is this another wave happening here? This is
:50:58. > :51:01.what it looks like when you give people hope and optimism and faith
:51:02. > :51:06.in a party political system, assist in which they haven't had faith or
:51:07. > :51:11.hope and have been actively disconnected from Anderson
:51:12. > :51:20.franchised from for so long. What we seeing is a resurgence. --
:51:21. > :51:26.disenfranchised from. The local MP was saying she thinks it is people
:51:27. > :51:30.joining Labour but they are not necessarily from the left, as in
:51:31. > :51:37.Momentum, but from across the board, is that true? I think it is. It s
:51:38. > :51:42.quite dismissive of Momentum and the fresh Labour intake to describe them
:51:43. > :51:46.as Trotskyists or militants, actually they are fairly ordinary
:51:47. > :51:53.people from across-the-board. Many haven't been engaged in politics
:51:54. > :51:55.ever. Many of them are former Labour supporters who were disenfranchised
:51:56. > :52:01.by New Labour politics and are now coming back, but this is a broad
:52:02. > :52:05.spectrum of people and to dismiss them as fringe is not understanding
:52:06. > :52:09.what is happening in politics I think. Even if Labour is gaining
:52:10. > :52:13.huge increases in membership in London, that is not going to win
:52:14. > :52:20.them the seats they need in the north of England or the Midlands.
:52:21. > :52:24.What about this sense or danger of rather metropolitan London bias
:52:25. > :52:28.which is not speaking to the heartlands where Ukip has been
:52:29. > :52:33.speaking? Firstly I think it is happening nationwide. Certainly
:52:34. > :52:37.Labour constituents from across the country are speaking of this kind of
:52:38. > :52:41.resurgence, but it is important to remember these are the people after
:52:42. > :52:46.all, these are the campaigning backbone of any party, these are the
:52:47. > :52:51.people that campaign, these are the people that persuade voters across
:52:52. > :52:55.the country. There is no reason to dismiss that capacity and power
:52:56. > :53:01.that is actually a significant thing. When we are told daily of
:53:02. > :53:05.people's disaffection and removal from the political process, here you
:53:06. > :53:09.have Labour seeing this great increase in membership, it is
:53:10. > :53:14.something to be welcomed, isn't it? I certainly welcome Labour Party
:53:15. > :53:20.supporters joining, but last year we found significant numbers of Green
:53:21. > :53:24.Party, even Tory and Lib Dem and Ukip nominators for local elections
:53:25. > :53:28.who had come in and that's why there was a compliance unit, to make sure
:53:29. > :53:34.there wasn't infiltration. There is no suggestion of that now, this is
:53:35. > :53:39.genuine. I have no idea because we don't have the data of the people
:53:40. > :53:44.joining. I suspect large numbers are young people, some have previously
:53:45. > :53:49.been members, they were members when Tony Blair was leader. But being
:53:50. > :53:56.attracted by your party at this time, you must welcome this.
:53:57. > :54:00.Possibly. And there are an organised group coming in from Trotskyists and
:54:01. > :54:06.others. The Menton are not just ordinary members, the people at the
:54:07. > :54:10.core of that are people who include non-Labour Party people and they are
:54:11. > :54:15.running a campaign to try to deselect Labour MPs in a number of
:54:16. > :54:21.constituencies. We have got a mixed picture here and we have no idea
:54:22. > :54:24.what the politics of the new members are, and I suspect many are joining
:54:25. > :54:28.also because they want a credible leadership that can take on the
:54:29. > :54:33.Conservatives if there is an early general election. Jeremy Corbyn said
:54:34. > :54:42.he thinks it is not done and dusted, the sense of who will vote, he wants
:54:43. > :54:51.the NEC to look again. He seems to be happy the NEC put him on the
:54:52. > :54:56.ballot, he cannot pick and choose. Are you talking about a legal
:54:57. > :55:02.challenge? No, the NEC might look at these rules. That is a matter for
:55:03. > :55:07.the NEC but ultimately they are the guardian of the rules and the whole
:55:08. > :55:13.process is decided by the NEC. There is an open window to become
:55:14. > :55:20.registered over the next few days. ?25? Jeremy Corbyn thinks that is a
:55:21. > :55:28.lot. That is the decision the NEC have taken. What do you make of the
:55:29. > :55:33.opposition party? Does it worry you that we have a party on the move in
:55:34. > :55:41.terms of its membership, albeit what the press are saying about the
:55:42. > :55:45.Labour situation at the moment? I want to see a strong opposition not
:55:46. > :55:50.having opposition holding us to account is not good for government.
:55:51. > :55:54.It might be fun for a short period of time but we need the opposition
:55:55. > :55:57.to get their act together so we can have a proper functioning
:55:58. > :56:02.parliament. In terms of the new membership, if people are joining in
:56:03. > :56:06.their tens of thousands for genuine policy debate, that should be
:56:07. > :56:10.welcomed. Engagement is good. If desired effect is the abuse and
:56:11. > :56:16.anti-Semitism, that's not good and it needs to be weeded out. A couple
:56:17. > :56:21.of points, have you been concerned about some of the tone, intimidation
:56:22. > :56:27.and so on, but answer this, why are people joining a party which the
:56:28. > :56:33.media is saying is not electable? I think it is a really serious issue,
:56:34. > :56:45.the abuse is completely disgusting and unacceptable. We know that it is
:56:46. > :56:49.most often targeted, but it is important we tackle this together.
:56:50. > :56:52.We don't say it is the fault of the extreme left, actually a lot of this
:56:53. > :56:56.is coming from the far right. We need to tackle this together and it
:56:57. > :57:02.is not helpful to single out a particular group of any party and
:57:03. > :57:07.say, it is your fault, you fix it, it is happening collectively and we
:57:08. > :57:12.need to deal with it collectively. Why are people joining a party whose
:57:13. > :57:16.leader apparently is so unelectable? Because they don't believe in the
:57:17. > :57:21.media definitions of electability. The decades people have been
:57:22. > :57:27.disenfranchised by politics, that have neglected them and scorned
:57:28. > :57:30.them, caused huge inequalities in wealth, huge economic hardship that
:57:31. > :57:35.people struggle with everyday so when that same media that has sold
:57:36. > :57:40.those parties to them starts to talk about electability, it obviously has
:57:41. > :57:41.no credibility. Good to see you thanks for coming in.
:57:42. > :57:47.Now for the rest of the news in 60 seconds.
:57:48. > :57:50.London Mayor Sadiq Khan has pledged ?400,000 to tackle the growing
:57:51. > :57:54.problems of knife crime and youth violence.
:57:55. > :57:56.Four teenagers have been stabbed to death since January,
:57:57. > :57:59.while there were 12 teenage deaths and 291 serious injuries from knife
:58:00. > :58:05.The Mayor urged hospital staff to report all knife
:58:06. > :58:11.Oxford Street will be pedestrianised by 2020.
:58:12. > :58:13.All traffic, including buses and taxis, will be banned
:58:14. > :58:15.from the shopping street as part of Sadiq Khan's plans
:58:16. > :58:23.City Hall said the project would be rolled out in two stages to reduce
:58:24. > :58:32.More than 4 million people visit Oxford Street every week.
:58:33. > :58:34.And the previous London mayor, Boris Johnson, has been
:58:35. > :58:39.In his former role, he travelled the world selling London,
:58:40. > :58:41.but managed to cause some consternation with his ability
:58:42. > :59:04.Briefly, the former Mayor of London now in the Foreign Office. Looking
:59:05. > :59:11.at his record when he was the Mayor of London, he was very good at it so
:59:12. > :59:15.I think people should not make the mistake that he a buffoon and I
:59:16. > :59:21.think he will step up to the job. How long can this go on? I am on the
:59:22. > :59:26.foreign affairs select committee so we will be interviewing him closely.
:59:27. > :59:29.We have Philip Hammond last week so I have no doubt we will have Boris
:59:30. > :59:34.Johnson soon. I think there's a problem because of the public
:59:35. > :59:40.statements he made about watermelon smiles and his comments... Perhaps
:59:41. > :59:46.he will explain them to you and make the point they are not racist. If a
:59:47. > :59:50.foreign government wants to take offence, and it has an issue where
:59:51. > :59:54.it wants to be difficult, then the first question they will ask is
:59:55. > :59:59.Foreign Secretary, you said the following about our country, and put
:00:00. > :00:06.him on the back foot. Do you think that will have a serious impact I
:00:07. > :00:10.think hopefully he will be much more serious in his negotiating style and
:00:11. > :00:14.of course we have excellent diplomats in the Foreign Office we
:00:15. > :00:18.have experienced people around him who will give him, hopefully, a
:00:19. > :00:22.message that is more acceptable to the countries. Which is why this is
:00:23. > :00:28.an extraordinary opportunity for him and many people think he will rise
:00:29. > :00:31.to it, and an incredibly interesting decision from Theresa May. This is
:00:32. > :00:34.where he will show himself to be a grown-up politician and I don't
:00:35. > :00:40.think he will waste that opportunity. Has he got the
:00:41. > :00:44.gravitas? You have met him many times, you know the size of his
:00:45. > :00:47.brain, he's a very clever man. He will have to drop the clowning
:00:48. > :00:49.around and be a serious politician and I have no doubt that's what he
:00:50. > :01:10.will do. Thank you. To bring you up-to-date on the
:01:11. > :01:14.developing situation in Turkey, it looks like they have detained 6 00
:01:15. > :01:19.people, the numbers have shot up since we came on a, following
:01:20. > :01:24.Friday's coup attempt. The cleansing operation is continuing, says the
:01:25. > :01:28.Justice minister in Turkey. In a television interview, some 6000
:01:29. > :01:31.detentions have taken place and the number could surpass 6000. I think
:01:32. > :01:36.most of us expected that it will. Now, earlier, the two Labour MPs
:01:37. > :01:38.challenging Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour
:01:39. > :01:41.Party were on the Andrew Marr show. Let's have a listen
:01:42. > :01:43.to what they had to say. How do you decide between
:01:44. > :01:46.the two of you who is more How do you resolve this question
:01:47. > :01:50.over which of you goes forward? We have got a nominations process,
:01:51. > :01:52.I think it is very clear. So whoever gets the more
:01:53. > :01:55.nominations... That is one way which we could do
:01:56. > :02:00.it, or we could make an agreement between ourselves, but my
:02:01. > :02:02.view is that whoever commands the largest degree
:02:03. > :02:05.of support in the PLP is the unity candidate and that s
:02:06. > :02:07.the person who should go forward I think we have to have the person
:02:08. > :02:12.that is most likely to beat Jeremy Corbyn,
:02:13. > :02:13.and I think that's me. Right, so you're not standing aside
:02:14. > :02:16.under any circumstances. Granita Restaurant is still
:02:17. > :02:19.open you know! We're not going to do
:02:20. > :02:27.a deal here on your sofa, Steve, Angela Eagle seemed a little
:02:28. > :02:33.uncomfortable they are talking about the need for their only to be one
:02:34. > :02:42.candidate. Will we proceed with two Norman Corbynistas? Or will we
:02:43. > :02:47.whittle down? She is uncomfortable because she wanted to be her and
:02:48. > :02:52.left still think there will be enormous pressure from Labour MPs to
:02:53. > :02:55.only go forward with one. The purpose of this is to get rid of
:02:56. > :03:01.Jeremy Corbyn and if you split the vote from the beginning, this mad
:03:02. > :03:04.dysfunctional sequence, that will lessen the possibility, which is
:03:05. > :03:09.already pretty limited, of them removing him. So I imagine there
:03:10. > :03:13.will be pressure this week for it to be down to one, but who knows
:03:14. > :03:17.whether they will agree to that those two sitting on the sofa early
:03:18. > :03:23.this morning. As someone who lives and breathes the British party
:03:24. > :03:27.politics, among others, if anyone was to ask me this morning, what is
:03:28. > :03:33.the franchise that will choose the next Labour leader, I could not
:03:34. > :03:38.answer that question. Can you? I think Angela Eagle, on this show
:03:39. > :03:43.last week, could not answer it. They asked onto themselves about the
:03:44. > :03:48.central party machine. We are all right, but the burden is on them and
:03:49. > :03:53.they cannot do it. I imagine Jeremy Corbyn's ultimate advantage in this
:03:54. > :03:56.contest is the relative obscurity of the challengers. Angela Eagle and
:03:57. > :04:01.all and Smith have a lot going for them but this is not Blair and
:04:02. > :04:05.Brown, they are second-tier politicians. He can justifiably say,
:04:06. > :04:10.ten months on from a commanding mandate, do either one of these two
:04:11. > :04:15.justify a huge shift in the vote? And I do not think they do. If he
:04:16. > :04:19.was to win, the Labour moderates will do their best to defeat him but
:04:20. > :04:25.if he was to win for the second time in a year, surely the game is up? I
:04:26. > :04:30.understand that it is a tribal party scarred by memories of the SDP, but
:04:31. > :04:35.surely a second victory for Corbyn will justify a resignation of the
:04:36. > :04:38.whip, by a large number of Labour MPs and at least an attempt to
:04:39. > :04:43.become a different kind of centre-left party. That would be a
:04:44. > :04:48.schism, and a broader one than when the social Democrats were formed
:04:49. > :04:53.against Michael Foot's Labour Party. I would agree with what they both
:04:54. > :04:56.said on that. I think it is remarkable how quiet the more
:04:57. > :05:01.prominent figures of the moderates are. It is left to Angela Eagle and
:05:02. > :05:05.Owen Smith, second-tier politicians that most people will not have heard
:05:06. > :05:09.of. What has happened to people like Jack Carmona, people with more
:05:10. > :05:14.recognisability, particularly in London? They seem to be sitting it
:05:15. > :05:18.out. -- Chuka Umunna. I think moderate MPs, we will see a lot of
:05:19. > :05:23.younger MPs are leaving politics for a few years. Whether they choose to
:05:24. > :05:26.trigger by-elections is another question but I don't think that many
:05:27. > :05:31.of those who have come into politics will want to see this through for
:05:32. > :05:41.another few years. If Mr Corbyn is re-elected and I guess he must be
:05:42. > :05:45.favourite, Owen Smith said that he would show loyalty to whoever wins
:05:46. > :05:49.this morning, but will most of the 80% of Labour MPs who have no
:05:50. > :05:56.confidence, will they buckle down and be prepared to serve in a Corbyn
:05:57. > :06:01.Cabinet? No. I am doing a thing on Radio 4, the next one is tomorrow
:06:02. > :06:06.night, I think about Corbyn's first year, and if you stand back from the
:06:07. > :06:09.chaos, two things are obvious. Jeremy Corbyn cannot continue
:06:10. > :06:15.reading with this current set of MPs, hence the talk selections and
:06:16. > :06:19.the rest of it. These MPs cannot carry on serving under Jeremy
:06:20. > :06:24.Corbyn. Those things are strikingly obvious. -- the talk of
:06:25. > :06:28.deselections. When you chronicle what has happened, those two things
:06:29. > :06:31.stand. It Jeremy Corbyn carried on bleeding, he will need another set
:06:32. > :06:37.of MPs, and the current set will have to go in a different direction.
:06:38. > :06:43.Nothing else is feasible. And none of that can happen this side of
:06:44. > :06:50.2020, meaning they will all have to be deselected. That would mean that
:06:51. > :06:56.Labour would go in on the basis that there is not, they would go in in a
:06:57. > :07:02.state of civil war to the election cycle. No, you would have a separate
:07:03. > :07:07.Parliamentary party forming. And what is interesting for the people I
:07:08. > :07:10.have spoken to, the bigger Parliamentary party would become the
:07:11. > :07:17.opposition. The main opposition So whoever let that, it would go with
:07:18. > :07:21.that. But who keeps the Labour brands? As others have said, whether
:07:22. > :07:27.you have the people around big enough to navigate these hurdles is
:07:28. > :07:31.a huge question. There are big figures who were around in the late
:07:32. > :07:36.70s and early 80s in the Labour Party, another symptom of
:07:37. > :07:41.dysfunction is the lack of these big figures, that are no longer around.
:07:42. > :07:44.There is a fight for the soul of the Labour Party going on and were some
:07:45. > :07:49.adverts that appeared in the paper this morning. I think we can have a
:07:50. > :08:03.look at one. 48 hours to save labour. Saving labour is the
:08:04. > :08:09.hashtag. I think this is from the non-Corbynista part. Do you know who
:08:10. > :08:16.is behind this? There was a sort of attempt, it is now ?25 to sign up.
:08:17. > :08:20.And you have to days to do that There was an attempt to get people
:08:21. > :08:24.to sign up to join the Labour Party and vote but that has now been
:08:25. > :08:27.rendered invalid by this convoluted set of rules were people who join
:08:28. > :08:35.from February or something cannot now vote. Even you don't know and
:08:36. > :08:41.you have just made a documentary! I don't know if anyone was listening!
:08:42. > :08:51.But I think there will be an attempt to get as many... If Jeremy Corbyn
:08:52. > :08:57.wins, they will not have another leadership contest. Either they have
:08:58. > :09:01.to buckle under or... Or they decide to back him or do something else.
:09:02. > :09:05.But not another leadership contest, surely. You would've thought by now,
:09:06. > :09:15.in terms of joining, that we had reached peak Trot, that there are
:09:16. > :09:23.not any more Trots out there. But are the run-off moderate Labour
:09:24. > :09:27.supporters out there are? I have seen them during moderate Labour
:09:28. > :09:33.supporters to come in. Are the run-off to make a difference? We may
:09:34. > :09:38.not have reached peak Trot. Getting moderates to sign up, that has
:09:39. > :09:41.always been a project talked about within the Labour Party ever since
:09:42. > :09:44.Corbyn emerged. The reason it is difficult is that by definition if
:09:45. > :09:51.you are a political moderate, you particularly engaged to join and pay
:09:52. > :09:58.?25? People of moderate views are often defined by being indifferent
:09:59. > :10:03.to the process. Are they not all in Tuscany? In 20 seconds, he energised
:10:04. > :10:06.more than the so-called hard left last summer because there were a
:10:07. > :10:10.range of people going to rallies, some drawn into politics for the
:10:11. > :10:15.first time. Lots of young people. And so it is a wider appeal, but it
:10:16. > :10:23.is one that Labour MPs will not sign up to and that is the problem. I'm
:10:24. > :10:28.sure we will have plenty of time to discuss this as the months unfold.
:10:29. > :10:32.We have all been surprised by the radical nature of the changes in
:10:33. > :10:35.Theresa May's government. It suggests to me that she has been
:10:36. > :10:40.thinking about this for much longer than we ever thought, and kept quiet
:10:41. > :10:44.during the referendum campaign. We now know what she was really doing.
:10:45. > :10:49.And you want to put the smack of your in print as you come in, but
:10:50. > :10:57.has she unnecessarily made enemies of people that she did not have to
:10:58. > :11:03.make enemies of, like young Dominic Rab? I think she has certainly made
:11:04. > :11:07.some pretty staunch enemies. -- Dominic Rabb. I received a call on
:11:08. > :11:11.Friday night from somebody who was hopping mad at the treatment of
:11:12. > :11:16.people in Downing Street, the scale of the revolution that has gone on
:11:17. > :11:21.inside Number Ten, and we have seen characters like Anna Super League,
:11:22. > :11:26.who was ostensibly an Theresa May's side of the argument, a remain and a
:11:27. > :11:31.senior minister and she has now flounced off, saying she is not
:11:32. > :11:39.prepared to serve. And these people could be powerful enemies. I think
:11:40. > :11:42.Theresa May has made a strong statement, and actually, very
:11:43. > :11:46.impressively, she has put the people she wants in places, and it will be
:11:47. > :11:54.up to those ministers who she has put in, the Brexiter years, to make
:11:55. > :12:01.a good fist of it. -- the Brexiteers. I understand that she
:12:02. > :12:06.wanted to put on stamp on it, but as she made some enemies of people that
:12:07. > :12:11.she did not need to make enemies of? I am sure she has and it is a risk
:12:12. > :12:16.to take when your majority is just 12 seats. That means she assumes it
:12:17. > :12:20.will not be 12-16 seats within a year's time because the option of
:12:21. > :12:23.going to the country again while Labour are in disarray and the
:12:24. > :12:27.majority is so weak is there before her, maybe not this winter because
:12:28. > :12:30.it would be unconventional but in the spring, if she is ten or 15
:12:31. > :12:35.points ahead in the polls, all it would take is for the repeal of the
:12:36. > :12:39.fixed term parliament's act for her to go to the country. But she would
:12:40. > :12:43.have to get that through the Lords as well as the Commons. Many of the
:12:44. > :12:48.Lords were not thrilled with the act when it was introduced under the
:12:49. > :12:52.coalition. Let's rule this out, let's rule out autumn but might she
:12:53. > :12:59.go next spring? I think autumn is the only chance to do it. If you
:13:00. > :13:03.drag it on and on, it becomes very difficult. She would have to rule it
:13:04. > :13:07.out unequivocally. Not next spring but possibly November. Then we
:13:08. > :13:11.better get a summer break. That is it for us.
:13:12. > :13:13.I'm off to America for the Republican and Democratic
:13:14. > :13:15.conventions, but the Daily Politics continues lunchtime tomorrow
:13:16. > :13:19.The Sunday Politics will return in time for the party conference
:13:20. > :13:26.And maybe Steve's collection as well.
:13:27. > :13:28.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics
:13:29. > :14:10.Do you want to try Mandy's healthy pork burgers?
:14:11. > :14:13.This week, Gregg and Chris show how spending less on food. .
:14:14. > :14:17...might be easier... It took me literally two minutes to make it.
:14:18. > :14:21...healthier... Look! We've got a little veg workshop going!