:00:38. > :00:41.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:42. > :00:44.A row has broken out between Number Ten and former
:00:45. > :00:48.Cabinet minister Nicky Morgan over Brexit and, believe it or not,
:00:49. > :00:52.the price of Theresa May's leather trousers.
:00:53. > :00:54.I feel as though I'm one of the people that
:00:55. > :00:58.If you do that, you are likely to attract attention,
:00:59. > :01:10.It's not just Nicky Morgan making life difficult
:01:11. > :01:13.for the Prime Minister - we'll be taking a look at the rest
:01:14. > :01:16.Fully paid-up rebel Ken Clarke joins us live.
:01:17. > :01:18.Protestors disrupted a speech by Jeremy Corbyn yesterday,
:01:19. > :01:20.but is his biggest problem Labour's miserable performance
:01:21. > :01:23.Corbynite Ken Livingstone and Corbyn critic Chris Leslie
:01:24. > :01:31.In London, four days of filthy air in the capital but City Hall is
:01:32. > :01:33.resisting calls to ban diesel vehicles.
:01:34. > :01:53.think of it as an early Christmas present from us.
:01:54. > :01:54.We guarantee you won't be disappointed.
:01:55. > :01:56.And speaking of guaranteed disappointments - I'm joined
:01:57. > :01:58.by three of the busiest little elves in political journalism.
:01:59. > :02:01.It's Iain Martin, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn.
:02:02. > :02:08.So, we knew relations between Theresa May and some
:02:09. > :02:14.of her backbenchers over Europe weren't exactly a bed of roses.
:02:15. > :02:20.But signs of how fractious things are getting come courtesy of this
:02:21. > :02:23.morning's Mail on Sunday which has the details of a series of texts
:02:24. > :02:25.from one of Mrs May's senior advisers to and concerning
:02:26. > :02:31.the former Cabinet minister Nicky Morgan.
:02:32. > :02:35.Mrs Morgan is one of those arguing for a so-called soft Brexit,
:02:36. > :02:38.and has been pressing the PM to reveal more of her negotiation
:02:39. > :02:44.She's also apparently irked Downing Street by questioning
:02:45. > :02:51.Mrs May's decision to purchase and be photographed in a ?995 pair
:02:52. > :02:57.She said she had "never spent that much money on anything apart
:02:58. > :03:07.Mrs Morgan was due to attend a meeting at Number 10 this week
:03:08. > :03:11.But that invitation seems to be off, after a fairly extraordinary
:03:12. > :03:13.argument by text message with Mrs May's joint chief
:03:14. > :03:22.She texted the MP Alistair Burt, another of those arguing
:03:23. > :03:29.for a so-called soft Brexit, cancelling Nicky Morgan's invitation
:03:30. > :03:34.and telling him to not "bring that woman to Number Ten again".
:03:35. > :03:36.The following day Nicky Morgan texted Fiona Hill, saying
:03:37. > :03:39."If you don't like something I have said or done, please
:03:40. > :03:53.If you don't want my views in future meetings you need to tell them."
:03:54. > :03:58.Shortly afterwards she received the reply "Well, he just did.
:03:59. > :04:02.And according to the Mail, Mrs Morgan, who you'll see
:04:03. > :04:04.in our film shortly, has now been formally banned
:04:05. > :04:21.So, Tom, much ado about nothing or telling you about the underlying
:04:22. > :04:24.tensions over Brexit? Both, if I am allowed to choose both. It says
:04:25. > :04:28.something about British politics today, that this is the most
:04:29. > :04:31.important thing we can find to talk about, because the Government are
:04:32. > :04:34.not giving us anything to talk about cs especially on Brexit because they
:04:35. > :04:39.don't have a plan as we know. There is is a lot of truth that are being
:04:40. > :04:44.spoken from this row, one is that Mrs May comes into Downing Street
:04:45. > :04:47.with a lot of baggage including spectacular fall outs with Cabinet
:04:48. > :04:55.Ministers in the past. Nicky Morgan being one. We heard about the row
:04:56. > :05:00.over banning children from school. She fell out with Boris Johnson, so,
:05:01. > :05:07.she then enters Number Ten with history. When you are in Number Ten
:05:08. > :05:15.you start, you cannot be controversial and my way but the
:05:16. > :05:19.high way, which is why Fiona Hill kept Theresa May in the Home Office.
:05:20. > :05:25.You need to behave differently in the top job. It is surprising Nicky
:05:26. > :05:31.Morgan hats taken such a robust line. She seemed such a gentle soul
:05:32. > :05:36.as a minister. She did, Brexit has done funny things to people.
:05:37. > :05:40.Everything has been shaken up. It reveals really how paranoid they
:05:41. > :05:45.are, I mean you cannot have a situation really in which the, in
:05:46. > :05:52.which you know, Number Ten has got realise if the Prime Minister's
:05:53. > :05:56.entire stick is her authenticity and incredible connection, which is
:05:57. > :06:00.genuine, with voters outside the Metropolitan bubble, when she
:06:01. > :06:04.chooses to wear ?995 leather trousers you have to anticipate that
:06:05. > :06:09.journalists and MPs are going to take the mickey, that is how life
:06:10. > :06:13.works, but I think they are trying to run Number Ten as they ran the
:06:14. > :06:17.Home Office, and you see that in the rows they have had with Mark Carney
:06:18. > :06:22.and Boris Johnson this week, now you might be able to run one Government
:06:23. > :06:26.department in that control freakish way but not Government will hold
:06:27. > :06:29.together for too long, if it is run in that fashion. By try doing the
:06:30. > :06:35.whole Government like one department. This is just the start,
:06:36. > :06:41.Polly, we are still several months away from triggering Article 50. We,
:06:42. > :06:45.The Tory party is split down the middle, the thing that mattered most
:06:46. > :06:50.to the nation since the last war, it is not frivolous. It may look as if
:06:51. > :06:55.it is about trousers, it is about the most serious thing. What was
:06:56. > :07:01.split down the middle? Aren't the Euro-files and the Eurosceptics used
:07:02. > :07:06.to be the outliers, it is now the Europhiles, it is not a split down
:07:07. > :07:09.the middle. They won't vote against Brexit but they will, I think exert
:07:10. > :07:14.the maximum influence they can, to make sure that it is not a Brexit, a
:07:15. > :07:17.self-harming Brexit, to make sure that the country understand, when it
:07:18. > :07:23.comes to that point, that there may be really hard decision to make, do
:07:24. > :07:29.you want a real economic damage to be done to the country, to your own
:07:30. > :07:32.wallet, in, in exchange for being able to stop free movement or is
:07:33. > :07:36.that trade off in the end going to be just too expensive? We have seen
:07:37. > :07:43.polls suggesting people are beginning to move, and not willing,
:07:44. > :07:47.a poll out now saying people wouldn't be willing to sacrifice any
:07:48. > :07:50.money at all, for the sake of stopping immigration. So if itself
:07:51. > :07:58.comes to that trade off, the people are going to need to be confronted
:07:59. > :08:01.with that choice. The Irony is, I think the Tories are in the most
:08:02. > :08:07.exceptionally strong position, I mean what is happening here is that
:08:08. > :08:12.British politics is being realigned and remade along leave and remain
:08:13. > :08:19.lines, if the Prime Minister's luck hold, the Tories are looking at
:08:20. > :08:23.being somewhere 45, 46, 47% of the vote with an opposition split
:08:24. > :08:25.between a far left Labour Party and depleted Liberal Democrats, that
:08:26. > :08:32.sound like a recipe for something similar to what happened in the
:08:33. > :08:36.1980s. You are seeing extraordinary alliances between left and right.
:08:37. > :08:40.The Scottish referendum rebuilt Scottish politics along the lines of
:08:41. > :08:45.pro independence, anti-independence and now Brexit maybe doing the same.
:08:46. > :08:48.So, rows within the Conservative Party over the price
:08:49. > :08:50.of trousers might be new, but over Europe, not so much.
:08:51. > :08:53.And this week's Commons vote on when the Government will fire
:08:54. > :08:55.the starting gun on Brexit, and what it will say
:08:56. > :08:58.about its plans before it does so, confirmed that instead
:08:59. > :08:59.of the eurosceptics being the outsiders,
:09:00. > :09:01.it's now the Remainers who are leading the resistance.
:09:02. > :09:11.While the Prime Minister was schmoozing in the gold-plated
:09:12. > :09:13.Gulf this week, back home the Commons was voting
:09:14. > :09:16.on a Labour motion forcing her to publish a plan for Brexit.
:09:17. > :09:18.Through some parliamentary jiggery-pokery, the Government
:09:19. > :09:20.basically got its way, but it did provide a platform
:09:21. > :09:26.for some mischiefmaking by Tory MPs who voted to remain,
:09:27. > :09:35.We are getting somewhat tired, are we not, of this constant level
:09:36. > :09:37.of abuse, this constant criticism that we are somehow Remoaners
:09:38. > :09:41.that want to thwart the will of the people,
:09:42. > :09:45.go back on it and that we don't accept the result.
:09:46. > :09:50.I don't like the result, and yes, I do believe the people
:09:51. > :09:53.It's not good enough that these things are dragged
:09:54. > :09:55.out of the Government by opposition day motions.
:09:56. > :09:58.I'm pleased that it's happened but I wish the Government was taking
:09:59. > :10:03.Is Nicky Morgan really listening to her constituents
:10:04. > :10:11.I think I'm one of the people who stuck their head
:10:12. > :10:14.above the parapet so if you do that you're likely to attract attention,
:10:15. > :10:17.you're likely to attract abuse, but also actually levels of support.
:10:18. > :10:19.I'm having e-mails from around the country with people saying thank
:10:20. > :10:21.you for what you are doing, party members around
:10:22. > :10:24.the country saying thank you for what you are doing
:10:25. > :10:28.and saying, and I and others will continue to do that.
:10:29. > :10:30.I just think, as a backbench Member of Parliament,
:10:31. > :10:33.you've got to be there, particularly when we have a weak
:10:34. > :10:35.opposition, to ask the question that government needs to be scrutinised
:10:36. > :10:43.on before we embark on such a huge issue.
:10:44. > :10:45.Nobody comes into politics to become a thorn in their party leader's
:10:46. > :10:49.side, but at the end of the day it's such a massive issue that
:10:50. > :10:51.if you don't stand up for what you believe in,
:10:52. > :10:57.I'm not sure what the point is of going into politics.
:10:58. > :11:00.That puts her on a collision course with activists in her local
:11:01. > :11:02.party like Adam Stairs, a committed leader who accuses
:11:03. > :11:08.Nicky has promised me and the rest of our Conservative association
:11:09. > :11:10.she will be voting for Article 50 and she will support
:11:11. > :11:13.the Prime Minister's timetable, and we have just got to trust that
:11:14. > :11:16.and hope that goes ahead, but there's a lot of people
:11:17. > :11:18.who think she's taking sideswipes at the Government
:11:19. > :11:22.The Conservatives are very popular, she wants to be a Conservative MP
:11:23. > :11:24.and we want to see a Conservative government being
:11:25. > :11:32.I have no idea what she's playing at, I think she just needs to get
:11:33. > :11:34.on with her job as an MP, which she does very well,
:11:35. > :11:38.Now let's head to Anna Soubry's constituency nearby to see
:11:39. > :11:40.how her stance is going down with the voters.
:11:41. > :11:42.If Anna Soubry doesn't fully back Brexit, what does
:11:43. > :11:48.Well, she's going to have a little bit of a problem because the voters,
:11:49. > :11:51.especially in this area, they voted to come out of the EU
:11:52. > :11:53.so she will definitely have a little bit of a problem.
:11:54. > :11:55.She should stick for what she believes in,
:11:56. > :11:57.but I guess from a democratic perspective she does...
:11:58. > :12:14.She has admitted the fact over and over again that she wanted
:12:15. > :12:17.to remain, but her views at the moment, even in her e-mails,
:12:18. > :12:18.depicted the fact she's anti-Brexit still.
:12:19. > :12:24.Theresa May will host her most pro-European MPs at Downing Street
:12:25. > :12:25.this week to discuss the countdown to Brexit.
:12:26. > :12:34.Although now we know not everyone is invited.
:12:35. > :12:40.And the MP leading the resistance in the Commons on Wednesday
:12:41. > :12:43.was Ken Clarke, he was the only Conservative MP who voted
:12:44. > :12:45.against the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end
:12:46. > :12:49.of March and he joins us now from Nottingham.
:12:50. > :12:54.Welcome back to the programme Ken Clarke. Now, tell me this when David
:12:55. > :12:59.Cameron resigned after losing the referendum, you had to pick a new
:13:00. > :13:03.leader, which candidate did the Tory Europhiles like you put up to
:13:04. > :13:10.deliver a so-called soft Brexit, or no Brexit at all? Well, I can't
:13:11. > :13:15.speak for the others but I voted for Theresa May, I gave a notorious
:13:16. > :13:20.interview, it wasn't meant to be, I was chatting to Malcolm Rifkind but
:13:21. > :13:24.somebody turned a camera on, I called her a bloody difficult woman
:13:25. > :13:27.which the Tory party probably needs, compared with Margaret Thatcher and
:13:28. > :13:33.said I was going to vote for her, I gave a vote for one of the younger
:13:34. > :13:38.ones first, but I told Teresa I would vote for her, she was the only
:13:39. > :13:41.serious candidate in my view. You voted for somebody you thought was a
:13:42. > :13:45.difficult woman, she is being difficult in ways you don't like,
:13:46. > :13:50.your side of the Tory party, you had your chance to put up somebody more
:13:51. > :13:56.in line with you, instead you shut up, so, why the complaints about it
:13:57. > :14:00.not going in your direction? I am not making complaint, it is not
:14:01. > :14:03.Teresa's fall we are in the dreadful mess, she was on the Remain side,
:14:04. > :14:07.she made a good speech during the campaign on the referendum, setting
:14:08. > :14:10.out the economic case for being in, setting out the security case for
:14:11. > :14:15.being in, which was Home Secretary, she was particularly expert in, it
:14:16. > :14:19.wasn't her fault that not a word it was reported anywhere, in the
:14:20. > :14:23.national media. Now, my views have been the same, I am afraid
:14:24. > :14:28.throughout my adult life, for the 50 years I have been in politics, and
:14:29. > :14:31.my views have been the mainstream policy of the Conservative Party
:14:32. > :14:36.throughout all that time, I don't expect to have a sudden conversion
:14:37. > :14:41.on the 24th June, and I think what I owe to my constituency, and to
:14:42. > :14:45.Parliament, is that I exercise my judgment, I make speeches giving my
:14:46. > :14:50.reasons, I make the best judgment that I can, of what is the national
:14:51. > :14:57.interest. I understand that. I would be a terrible hypocrite if I... Of
:14:58. > :15:02.course that is not what I am asking. How many Conservative MPs do you
:15:03. > :15:09.think you can count on to oppose this so-called hard Brexit? Is it
:15:10. > :15:12.40, 20, 10, 5, 1? I have no idea, because Anna, and Nicky, who you
:15:13. > :15:15.have just seen on the video who are also sticking to their principle,
:15:16. > :15:19.they are only saying what they are been saying ever since they have
:15:20. > :15:31.been in politics, probably may have more idea than me.
:15:32. > :15:38.That is three, how many more? I don't know, we will find out. We are
:15:39. > :15:44.living in a bubble in which the tone of politics is getting nastier and
:15:45. > :15:48.the reporting is getting sillier, so it is all about Theresa May's
:15:49. > :15:52.trousers and whether Boris has made some inappropriate jokes. What we
:15:53. > :15:57.need if we are going to abandon the basis upon which we made ourselves a
:15:58. > :16:01.leading political power in the world for the last 40 years and the basis
:16:02. > :16:04.upon which our economy has prospered because Margaret Thatcher got the
:16:05. > :16:09.others to adopt the single market and we benefited from that more than
:16:10. > :16:15.any other member state, so now we need a serious plan, a strategy.
:16:16. > :16:19.What is our relationship going to be in the modern world? How will our
:16:20. > :16:29.children and grandchildren make the best union they can? We need
:16:30. > :16:35.Parliament's approval of a White Paper and then start years of
:16:36. > :16:40.negotiation. This will run and run. This interview hasn't got time to
:16:41. > :16:42.run and run so let me get another question in. You seem to be quoted
:16:43. > :16:48.in the mail on Sunday this morning as saying if the Prime Minister
:16:49. > :16:53.sides too much with the heart Brexit group, she won't survive, is that
:16:54. > :16:57.your view? Yes because only a minority of the House of Commons
:16:58. > :17:01.think it is frightfully simple and you can just leave. The referendum
:17:02. > :17:06.campaign, the only national media reporting of the issues were
:17:07. > :17:12.completely silly and often quite dishonest arguments on both sides.
:17:13. > :17:17.Let me just check this, explain to me the basis... Know, excuse me, I
:17:18. > :17:20.have to interrupt because you said the Prime Minister won't survive so
:17:21. > :17:26.just explain to our viewers why she won't survive. She will be in a
:17:27. > :17:31.minority she starts adopting the views of John Redwood or Iain Duncan
:17:32. > :17:34.Smith. It's clear majority of the House of Commons doesn't agree with
:17:35. > :17:38.that and it would be pretty catastrophic if that is what we were
:17:39. > :17:44.going to do when we turn up and faced 27 of the nation state, and
:17:45. > :17:52.tell them we are pulling out of the biggest market in the world. How
:17:53. > :18:00.long do you give the Prime Minister then? If you don't think she will
:18:01. > :18:06.survive by going for a heart Brexit? I don't think she will go for a
:18:07. > :18:12.heart Brexit. Really, surrounded by David Davis and Liam Fox? Do you
:18:13. > :18:19.think Liam Fox will determine the policy of the Cabinet? Liam has
:18:20. > :18:23.always been ferociously against the European Union although he served in
:18:24. > :18:30.a government that was pro-European for about two and a half years. Does
:18:31. > :18:34.he not survive either? You're trying to reduce it to my trying to
:18:35. > :18:38.forecast Cabinet reshuffle is which I haven't got a clue whether there
:18:39. > :18:46.will be a Cabinet reshuffle, they may be ministers for the next ten
:18:47. > :18:49.years, I have no idea. Liam and me, but also Liam and the majority of
:18:50. > :18:54.his Cabinet colleagues don't start from the same place. The way forward
:18:55. > :18:59.is for them to produce a White Paper setting out the strategy on which
:19:00. > :19:03.all the Cabinet are agreed. People should stop leaking the Cabinet
:19:04. > :19:11.papers they are getting, they should stop leaking against each other, get
:19:12. > :19:14.down and do the work when they have got the agreed strategy. I'm sorry
:19:15. > :19:22.to interrupt again but we haven't got much time. We saw in our film
:19:23. > :19:28.that a number of constituency members in those areas which are
:19:29. > :19:34.strongly Remain MPs like yourself, in our case in this film it was
:19:35. > :19:38.Nicky Morgan, the constituency party members are unhappy about this.
:19:39. > :19:44.What's your message to them? Don't they deserve an MP that reflects
:19:45. > :19:50.their way of thinking? Leavers are unhappy and Remainers are very
:19:51. > :19:58.grateful. Mine don't go in for abuse... That's probably because
:19:59. > :20:03.you're not on e-mail, Mr Clarke. I get more from Remainers. I'm a great
:20:04. > :20:07.fan of Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan, I don't agree with them on
:20:08. > :20:11.everything, but the views they are putting forward are the ones they've
:20:12. > :20:15.always held and I think we are doing the Government to favour by saying
:20:16. > :20:22.what it now depends on is your success in agreeing a policy and
:20:23. > :20:27.then explaining to the public what you want to do. I shall be surprised
:20:28. > :20:31.if they manage that by the end of March, I think it is best to get the
:20:32. > :20:39.policy right first but we shall see. Have you been invited then, you say
:20:40. > :20:44.you are being helpful, have you been invited to this meeting in Downing
:20:45. > :20:48.Street on Wednesday for the soft Brexiteers? No, because I haven't
:20:49. > :20:52.been joining any of these groups. It's fair to say most of my
:20:53. > :20:59.colleagues know exactly what my views are. No doubt those that
:21:00. > :21:06.haven't had this kind of discussion with their colleagues before have
:21:07. > :21:10.been invited. I didn't expect to be invited. I get on perfectly well
:21:11. > :21:13.with Theresa May but I haven't been invited, but I don't think there's
:21:14. > :21:19.much significance in that. What do you think of the way Downing Street
:21:20. > :21:24.has handled Nicky Morgan? I feel sorry for women in politics. I'm
:21:25. > :21:28.glad to say men in politics don't have great lead stories about what
:21:29. > :21:33.they are wearing. Apart from my suede shoes, I'm lucky because I'm
:21:34. > :21:39.not a very snappy dresser. It is tedious in these days that we still
:21:40. > :21:50.have a absurd pop newspaper stories about what they are wearing.
:21:51. > :21:57.That commenting on the Prime Minister's trousers, is it really
:21:58. > :22:03.grounds for banishment? No, of course not. Nikki and Teresa will
:22:04. > :22:07.have serious political discussions and if they want to have an argument
:22:08. > :22:15.about what they are wearing, their closest friends will advise them to
:22:16. > :22:22.keep it private. It is absurd. Given that the party appears to be
:22:23. > :22:27.deciding it has been all -- ordered to changes policies about Britain's
:22:28. > :22:33.relationship with the world, it needs to be taken seriously and this
:22:34. > :22:37.Lola. Is filling a vacuum before the serious discussion starts. Thank you
:22:38. > :22:38.for filling our vacuum this morning and of course no one would ever
:22:39. > :22:42.criticise how you dress. Of course. Now, seasoned observers will warn
:22:43. > :22:44.against reading too much into parliamentary by-elections,
:22:45. > :22:47.but they can provide a vital boost for a party leader under pressure,
:22:48. > :22:49.or provide damaging ammunition Following a disappointing result
:22:50. > :22:53.for Labour last week in Richmond, Jeremy Corbyn may have been hoping
:22:54. > :22:55.for an early Christmas present at this week's
:22:56. > :22:57.contest in Lincolnshire. In Sleaford and North Hykeham,
:22:58. > :23:05.a constituency that supported Leave in the EU referendum,
:23:06. > :23:08.there was little Christmas cheer for Labour as it fell from second
:23:09. > :23:12.in 2015 to fourth place. That was at least a better
:23:13. > :23:15.performance than in Remain-supporting Richmond Park,
:23:16. > :23:18.where the party's candiate lost his deposit after attracting
:23:19. > :23:21.fewer voters than the reported number of local
:23:22. > :23:25.Labour Party members. Speaking for the Labour Party this
:23:26. > :23:30.week, MP Vernon Coaker said their policies on other major
:23:31. > :23:34.issues were "lost to an extent Some MPs feel that a lack of clarity
:23:35. > :23:47.is holding the party back. This week three frontbenchers
:23:48. > :23:50.were among the 23 Labour MPs to defy the party line and vote
:23:51. > :23:59.against a motion to begin the process of leaving the EU
:24:00. > :24:02.by the end of March. And a number of Labour MPs we've
:24:03. > :24:05.spoken to since Thursday's vote have said they fear the party now runs
:24:06. > :24:08.the risk of being squeezed by the Lib Dems and UKIP,
:24:09. > :24:10.or in the words of one, "being cannabilised,
:24:11. > :24:14.eaten from both ends". To compound their troubles,
:24:15. > :24:16.a national poll released on Friday put Labour
:24:17. > :24:19.at a seven-year low, trailing 17 It's still a season of joy
:24:20. > :24:25.for many of Mr Corbyn's supporters - they point to a series of victories
:24:26. > :24:28.under his leadership, including a by-election win
:24:29. > :24:30.in Tooting and the London mayoral Though neither candidate was a
:24:31. > :24:36.Corbynite. But there's a distinct lack
:24:37. > :24:40.of goodwill on the party of his critics - although having
:24:41. > :24:43.failed comprehensively to challenge him this summer,
:24:44. > :24:53.what they intend to do This morning Diane Abbott played
:24:54. > :24:58.down the significance of the results. The reports of the Labour
:24:59. > :25:02.Party's demise are exaggerated, we are the largest social Democratic
:25:03. > :25:05.party in Europe and the surging membership is down to the current
:25:06. > :25:10.leadership. We have the right policies on the NHS, investing in
:25:11. > :25:14.the economy, and as you know the Tories are fatally split on Europe.
:25:15. > :25:16.And we're joined now by the former mayor
:25:17. > :25:18.of London Ken Livingstone, and the former Shadow
:25:19. > :25:26.Ken Livingstone, in the most recent by-election Labour collapsed from
:25:27. > :25:31.second to fourth place, the one before that your party lost its
:25:32. > :25:38.deposit. What is the positive gloss on that? There's nothing new in
:25:39. > :25:46.this, where you have got seats which are solidly Tory, often voters
:25:47. > :25:52.switched to Lib Dem to kick other voters out. We have had good swings
:25:53. > :25:58.that indicate a Labour government so don't pay too much attention. It is
:25:59. > :26:02.like Orpington 50 years ago. Labour voters switched just to kick the
:26:03. > :26:12.Tories out. Don't read too much into these results, Labour did win
:26:13. > :26:15.tooting so it is OK. First of all I don't think it was a problem with
:26:16. > :26:21.the candidates in the by-elections, they did a really good job locally,
:26:22. > :26:25.but there is an issue with those residents and their attitudes to the
:26:26. > :26:30.national party, and I just think that when you have warning bells
:26:31. > :26:34.going off like that, we have to listen to what people are saying. I
:26:35. > :26:38.think what they are saying is they want an opposition party to have a
:26:39. > :26:42.plan. So yes we have got to attack the Conservatives where they are
:26:43. > :26:48.going wrong on the NHS, running headlong over the cliff for a hard
:26:49. > :26:54.Brexit, but we also need a plan for what Labour's alternative will be.
:26:55. > :26:59.When do we get that plant? Effectively you have got it already.
:27:00. > :27:06.John McDonnell has gone on relentlessly for the need for a
:27:07. > :27:11.massive public investment. For decades now under Labour and Tory
:27:12. > :27:16.governments we haven't invested in infrastructure, our roads are a
:27:17. > :27:20.disgrace, a broadband is antique. We need to be honest about this, if
:27:21. > :27:25.Theresa May can come back and say I've done a deal, we are leaving the
:27:26. > :27:30.EU, we will control our borders, we won't have to pay 350 million a year
:27:31. > :27:35.and stay in the single market, well... But that won't happen. If we
:27:36. > :27:41.are going to stumble along for two years heading for an economic
:27:42. > :27:44.disaster, that's why only eight MPs voted to leave, because they knew
:27:45. > :27:49.the harm it would do to their voters. If you have got a plan, why
:27:50. > :27:55.are things getting worse for you in the national polls, 17 points
:27:56. > :27:59.behind? If you look back, when I was leader of Chelsea my poll rating
:28:00. > :28:05.went down... But you have not been as bad since 1983 when you lost an
:28:06. > :28:09.election by a landslide. Over the next two years our economy will not
:28:10. > :28:14.grow strongly, it will limp along at best, as we get closer to Brexit it
:28:15. > :28:18.will get worse. All Labour MPs should be focusing on the economic
:28:19. > :28:24.alternative because nobody ever wins an election without a credible
:28:25. > :28:29.economic strategy. So as long as the country goes to hell in a hand
:28:30. > :28:32.basket, Labour will be fine. That's not good enough. You're not a
:28:33. > :28:40.commentator any more, you are part of the leadership of the party. It
:28:41. > :28:43.is to you. I will continue to argue the case for credibility,
:28:44. > :28:49.particularly in our policies, but the leadership cannot just sit back
:28:50. > :28:54.and watch this drift. On the Brexit situation, the Conservative
:28:55. > :28:58.manifesto at the last general election promised it would be yes to
:28:59. > :29:01.the single market, why aren't we holding them to account for the
:29:02. > :29:08.broken promise potentially they are about to do? If I had still been an
:29:09. > :29:12.MP, I would have been voting with you, rebelling, because we are not
:29:13. > :29:17.going to get any good deal to leave. Theresa May will stumble on for a
:29:18. > :29:20.couple of years trying to balance... The party policies were heard from
:29:21. > :29:26.Diane Abbott this morning is to get the best possible deal to leave. And
:29:27. > :29:32.I will believe it when it happens. So you don't believe a central part
:29:33. > :29:38.of Jeremy Corbyn's policy? Jeremy has accepted the fact people voted
:29:39. > :29:43.to leave. He now said we now need to get the best possible deal and you
:29:44. > :29:47.don't think it's achievable. I don't, because why would the other
:29:48. > :29:55.27 members give us a better deal staying outside? You've confused me,
:29:56. > :29:56.why are you such a big supporter of Corbyn with his policy you don't
:29:57. > :30:08.think it's achievable? Everybody knows we are not going to
:30:09. > :30:12.get a soft exit, so we either have the hard Brexit and we lose perhaps
:30:13. > :30:18.millions, certainly hundreds of thousands of jobs, or we have to say
:30:19. > :30:22.we got it wrong. I mean, you, a lot of people have been saying that all
:30:23. > :30:27.Labour's unclear on Brexit, that is why it is going wrong, I would
:30:28. > :30:31.suggest to you, that actually what the concentration on is the Tories
:30:32. > :30:36.are unclear about Brexit, they are in power, that is what matters, a
:30:37. > :30:40.bigger problem for Labour is whether Mr Corbyn's leadership will cut
:30:41. > :30:45.through or not. I think the YouGov poll this weekend not only gave us
:30:46. > :30:51.that double punch of a 17 point lead for the Conservatives but it had a
:30:52. > :30:56.33 point lead, 33 point, for Theresa May over Jeremy Corbyn, so part of
:30:57. > :30:59.the plan, think, has to be to address this leadership issue, to
:31:00. > :31:07.make sure it is also a party that is listening to the wider public and
:31:08. > :31:13.not just the small number of members or the trotsites in Momentum or
:31:14. > :31:23.whoever is the latest Marxist on the... You The thing that is ox
:31:24. > :31:27.fibbing Labour. One MP said Labour has quoted bunkum. We have has 18
:31:28. > :31:34.months of Labour MPs stabbing Jeremy in the back and some in the front.
:31:35. > :31:36.The vast majority of Labour MPs have stopped undermining Jeremy. You
:31:37. > :31:40.weren't doing that well before. Can you imagine a situation in which you
:31:41. > :31:44.have elected a new leader and the first year it is all about getting
:31:45. > :31:49.rid of imand undermining him. I disagree with Tony Blair on lots of
:31:50. > :31:52.policy issue, I didn't run wound saying this man is not fit to
:31:53. > :31:58.govern. That is because you had no support for that at the time. The
:31:59. > :32:02.idea people will take lectures from Ken on divisiveness, that is like
:32:03. > :32:07.takes lectures from Boris Johnson on diplomacy, you have to make sure,
:32:08. > :32:12.yes, that we find some accommodation after the leadership election this
:32:13. > :32:20.summer, but the plan is not there right now, and you and the rest of
:32:21. > :32:23.the leadership has to be held accountable for delivering that, I
:32:24. > :32:30.want to hear what the plan is. It is FDR he told us earlier. If you have
:32:31. > :32:34.got now because as we saw in the Autumn Statement, debt to GDP ratio
:32:35. > :32:39.at 90%, you can't convince the public by saying we will throw more
:32:40. > :32:44.money at the problem, the public want a credible plan, where the sums
:32:45. > :32:49.add up, that you are not making promises that won't be delivered.
:32:50. > :32:54.They want that plan. We need to point out our history, when Labour
:32:55. > :33:02.Waugh the election in 45 Government debt was two times that it was now..
:33:03. > :33:06.Now.. They generated exports and within 50 years we virtually paid
:33:07. > :33:13.off that debt. Austerity is not the way to go. Our economy is a disgrace
:33:14. > :33:17.compared with Germany. I agree. What we have to start saying, there is
:33:18. > :33:22.decent jobs, where are they going to be coming from, can we have a
:33:23. > :33:25.society based on fair play and prosperity for everybody not just
:33:26. > :33:28.the wealthy, that means saying, some time, that people have to
:33:29. > :33:32.contribute, they have to put in, so we have to listen to what the public
:33:33. > :33:37.are saying on issues for instance like immigration, as they said in
:33:38. > :33:41.the Brexit referendum, but make sure we have our approach set out
:33:42. > :33:47.clearly, so people know there is a ability to manage, and control these
:33:48. > :33:55.things, not just ignore them. Those tax dodgers who launder their money
:33:56. > :34:01.through Panamanian banks. If we crackdown on what might be 150
:34:02. > :34:07.billion a year of tax evasion and avoidance. That is a real outlier
:34:08. > :34:11.estimate as you know, way the highest, you cannot build the FDR
:34:12. > :34:17.programme on tax evasion revenues, alone, but let me ask you. You can
:34:18. > :34:23.say to Starbucks, if you are not going to pay tax on your profits we
:34:24. > :34:27.will tax every cup of coffee. Why don't you nationalise it? I was just
:34:28. > :34:33.checking that would be the policy. Let me ask you this. By what time do
:34:34. > :34:36.you get, start to get worrieded if the polls haven't given to turn
:34:37. > :34:42.round? I mean, I think they will turn round. When do you start to get
:34:43. > :34:45.worried? If they haven't? If in a year's time it was as bad as this we
:34:46. > :34:50.would be worried. I don't think it will be. Jeremy and his team will
:34:51. > :34:56.knows can on the economy, and that is wins every election. Bill
:34:57. > :34:59.Clinton, remember it's the economy stupid. People know if you are going
:35:00. > :35:02.to spend money they want to see where it is coming from, otherwise
:35:03. > :35:07.they will think it is their taxes that will go up and the
:35:08. > :35:12.Conservative, Theresa May, will scare the British public over plans
:35:13. > :35:18.that are not properly... What do you do if things haven't got better in
:35:19. > :35:22.12 months? We lost the leadership election in the summer but we will
:35:23. > :35:29.hold our leadership to account. What does that mean? It means asking for
:35:30. > :35:34.the plan, testing what the proposals are, are they properly credible, do
:35:35. > :35:39.they make sure that they meet the test the public... You just have to
:35:40. > :35:44.bite the bottom lip now, you privately, a lot of you think your
:35:45. > :35:49.party is heading for catastrophe. I don't think it is acceptable that we
:35:50. > :35:53.have this level of performance, currently, I am sure Ken agrees the
:35:54. > :35:57.opinion polls, and those by by-election were just not good
:35:58. > :36:00.enough. We have to show leadership, certainly on Brexit, hold the
:36:01. > :36:05.Government to account. Attack them for the crisis in the NHS, yes and
:36:06. > :36:09.on the economy, to deliver credible policy force, example on defending
:36:10. > :36:13.national security and making sure we stand up for humanitarian
:36:14. > :36:18.intervention. Final point, your party has lost Scotland. You are now
:36:19. > :36:23.in third place behind the stories -- Tories. I never thought I would be
:36:24. > :36:26.able to say that in a broadcast, if you lose the north too, you are
:36:27. > :36:31.heading for the smallest Parliamentary Labour Party since the
:36:32. > :36:35.war, aren't you. But that is our weakness, we in the 13 years of the
:36:36. > :36:38.last Labour Government neglected rebuilding our manufacturing in the
:36:39. > :36:44.way the Germans have done. Millions of people used to have good job, we
:36:45. > :36:47.used to have 8 million jobs in manufacturing it is down two. It is
:36:48. > :36:50.in the north, that Jeremy's strategy has the most relevance, of actually
:36:51. > :36:55.getting the investment and rebuilding. All right. We will see.
:36:56. > :36:59.Come back in 12 months if not before and we will check it out.
:37:00. > :37:01.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:02. > :37:04.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:05. > :37:07.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be talking
:37:08. > :37:10.about Boris Johnson's tour of the Middle East after straying
:37:11. > :37:11.off message, again, and the protestors attempting
:37:12. > :37:25.First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:37:26. > :37:29.This week a focus on transport - a mayor rebuffed over the railways.
:37:30. > :37:33.Four other big cities have just banned diesel vehicles -
:37:34. > :37:36.why is Sadiq Khan refusing to go down the same route?
:37:37. > :37:38.With me Mark Field, Conservative MP for the Cities
:37:39. > :37:52.And Rushanara Ali Labour MP for Bethnal Green and Bow.
:37:53. > :37:54.You had your first chance to vote in parliament
:37:55. > :38:07.Well, I felt that the plan, the idea of a plan wasn't clear enough, I
:38:08. > :38:14.believed we should have a white paper and we shouldn't be committing
:38:15. > :38:17.to 30th March to trigger Article 50 without some clarity on the
:38:18. > :38:20.direction of travel, and what the Government is going to propose. I
:38:21. > :38:24.just think it was a hostage to fortune, that is why I felt it would
:38:25. > :38:28.be wrong to support it. We need to make sure we act in the national
:38:29. > :38:33.economic interest and that is why I didn't feel I could support the
:38:34. > :38:38.Government amendment and also I did not appreciate my own party adopting
:38:39. > :38:42.the Government's amendment. That is why I didn't support either. You are
:38:43. > :38:45.clear, you were for Remain, your constituencies were as well. Didn't
:38:46. > :38:53.you have a pang when you start that process? . No, I think the timetable
:38:54. > :38:58.for, the reason we are triggering by the end of March is such we will not
:38:59. > :39:02.because of the two-year timetable have European elections in June
:39:03. > :39:06.2019. People would be dismayed in we were votes for more. My view is, I
:39:07. > :39:13.was disappointed with the outcome. Had it been the other way, I would
:39:14. > :39:17.expect the losing side to play ball, and I think the reality of the
:39:18. > :39:23.situation is what is good for the goose is good for the gander I will
:39:24. > :39:26.have more impact by trying to make Brexit work and particularly
:39:27. > :39:30.obviously with the City of London, to make financial services, as high
:39:31. > :39:34.as we can in the agenda when it comes to looking at this. That is
:39:35. > :39:37.the basic reason I thought I will support the Government and do the
:39:38. > :39:39.best from the inside rather than shouting from the beyond. Let us
:39:40. > :39:42.So - interesting week for the transport secretary Chris Grayling.
:39:43. > :39:45.On Tuesday he rejected the mayor's bid to take over overground train
:39:46. > :39:48.services through south east London - Sadiq Khan hadn't made
:39:49. > :39:52.The next day, he was facing calls to resign after it was suggested
:39:53. > :39:55.he never intended to hand over more control to a Labour mayor.
:39:56. > :40:06.Tanjil Rashid fills us in on the week's shenanigans.
:40:07. > :40:12.London suburban rail service, part of the confusing patch work of train
:40:13. > :40:16.services Londoners use every day. In January, plans were agreed between
:40:17. > :40:26.the Government and the last mayor to pass control of some of those
:40:27. > :40:31.services to TFL. Since then, scan was elected mayor -- Sadiq Khan.
:40:32. > :40:36.Chris Grayling this week rejected proposals to devolved the south-east
:40:37. > :40:42.franchise to TFL. Angering MPs on his own side. My constituents will
:40:43. > :40:46.regard his failure to remove the London metro services from the
:40:47. > :40:51.wholly discredited south-east franchise as being a cop out and
:40:52. > :40:57.failir and no sense at all as far as rail users in my constituency or I
:40:58. > :41:01.am concerned. I know my honourable friend feels passionately about
:41:02. > :41:05.this, I don't agree. We will have the opportunity between London, my
:41:06. > :41:10.department and Kent to design an improved franchise for the future.
:41:11. > :41:11.In a statement to Sunday Politics the Department for Transport
:41:12. > :41:30.spokesman said: and that: but the Government's
:41:31. > :41:36.motives have been called into question this week, after a letter
:41:37. > :41:39.from 2013 was leaked,er in which Chris Grayling told the then Mayor
:41:40. > :41:41.Boris the future. In a statement to Sunday Politics the Department for
:41:42. > :41:43.Transport spokesman said: and that: but the Government's motives have
:41:44. > :41:45.been called into question this week, after a letter from 2013 was
:41:46. > :41:48.leaked,er in which Chris Grayling told the then Mayor Boris Johnson
:41:49. > :41:51.that he would "Like to keep suburban rail services is out of the clutches
:41:52. > :41:53.of any future Labour mayor." It sparked calls for the Transport
:41:54. > :41:56.Secretary to resign. He has not told the truth about his motive. It is
:41:57. > :41:58.clear he has a long-standing prejudice against the idea of a
:41:59. > :42:03.Labour mayor ever having control of the trains. That not a legitimate
:42:04. > :42:08.reason for taking his decision, that is a serious error of judgment and I
:42:09. > :42:13.think he should resign. The turf war between City Hall and
:42:14. > :42:20.the Government over London suburban rail services continues. How will
:42:21. > :42:23.Sadiq Khan respond? He is very disappointed and so is the deputy
:42:24. > :42:26.I'm joined by the Deputy Mayor for Transport, Val Shawcross.
:42:27. > :42:33.You sip that is it? We are hugely disappointed. The Secretary of State
:42:34. > :42:37.has turned down an opportunity to make life easier for Londoner, to
:42:38. > :42:40.improve the economy, to improve the housing performance in south London.
:42:41. > :42:46.It is really difficult at the moment, in south London, if you are
:42:47. > :42:51.a commuter, you know, southern is in meltdown and of course south-east
:42:52. > :42:53.has not been good at all. You are not saying that Chris Grayling
:42:54. > :42:59.doesn't think that, or know that, but the point s as we heard in the
:43:00. > :43:04.piece, and let us repiece Pete it you didn't put plans to provide more
:43:05. > :43:08.frequent train, no extra capacity in peak hour, you haven't got the
:43:09. > :43:13.money. If you were to improve things he might let you take them over. The
:43:14. > :43:18.business plan we put in was a detailed account of how we could
:43:19. > :43:21.improve service, was really strong cost benefit ratio, it would have
:43:22. > :43:26.improved sever advices dramatically, if you look at TFL's track record in
:43:27. > :43:32.running the overground, running now the west Angela line, there has been
:43:33. > :43:35.a massive improvement in tum ber of passengers, and... You put a lot
:43:36. > :43:40.more money into infrastructure, you spent a lot of money on that and
:43:41. > :43:45.this time you, you are not comparing like-for-like? What we are talking
:43:46. > :43:50.about is changing the whole way, the railway is run, from this
:43:51. > :43:54.lackadaisical franchise to a tightly controlled contract, a concession,
:43:55. > :43:59.with better staffing, better trains, better reliability, and we can, as
:44:00. > :44:03.we move on, actually improve some of the frequencies. He makes it clear
:44:04. > :44:10.you want to be involved in a partnership. Should wow be it clear
:44:11. > :44:15.tore the average viewer, why should people out of the area be in hock,
:44:16. > :44:18.if you like to a Labour mayor and paying his fares and conditions, but
:44:19. > :44:22.you would under this air rangement you would have to split the trap
:44:23. > :44:29.Chinese into two. You would have this franchise that you were in
:44:30. > :44:32.charge of, both people trying to negotiate and work with Network
:44:33. > :44:36.Rail. I think we have plenty of experience of showing how we can
:44:37. > :44:39.make this work, and in fact, representatives from outside of
:44:40. > :44:46.London were really kind on this as well, -- keen on this, we had
:44:47. > :44:49.letters of support from Surrey, Kent, from Hertfordshire, Sevenoaks
:44:50. > :44:52.Borough Council were disappointed too about this decision, because
:44:53. > :44:56.they are very dependent on this commuter line. We had in the
:44:57. > :45:02.business plan made arrangements to start this work, we could have done
:45:03. > :45:06.this on a cost neutral basis for the Government and we would really like
:45:07. > :45:10.an independent assessment of the business plan, because we feel it
:45:11. > :45:13.stacks up, and so we are not going to take no for an answer on this,
:45:14. > :45:15.because it is too important, to the lives of people in south London, and
:45:16. > :45:36.the economy in south London. Bob Neill feels that as well, who is
:45:37. > :45:40.right? I understand Chris Grayling's view but there is this democratic
:45:41. > :45:46.deficit, the notion that Medway Council, Sevenoaks, even as far as
:45:47. > :45:51.Guildford would essentially be in hock to London Mayor is not a great
:45:52. > :45:55.situation. I accept the London Underground goes beyond the M25 into
:45:56. > :45:58.Waltham Cross and places like that in south Hertfordshire and it has
:45:59. > :46:04.been a success but it has half the money that has been devoted to it.
:46:05. > :46:08.This is a mess and I think people have made a lot of what Chris
:46:09. > :46:13.Grayling said. He made a valid .3 years ago which is that with a lot
:46:14. > :46:18.of changes proposed, think it through when a Tory mayor is asking,
:46:19. > :46:21.how would you feel if it was under Labour mayor and the issue is in
:46:22. > :46:35.part because Labour Party relies on funding. You are saying you support
:46:36. > :46:38.someone being predisposed, having been prejudiced on this matter
:46:39. > :46:47.because he has already decided he's not... I have not said that. How do
:46:48. > :46:51.you defend the remarks he made? The remarks were made three years ago,
:46:52. > :46:56.not been prejudiced about it, but saying think again, if there are
:46:57. > :47:01.whole lot of powers any mayor... Of course any Mayor of London wants to
:47:02. > :47:07.have more power, but think through the implications. So we cannot trust
:47:08. > :47:11.that he has looked very carefully at this business plan proposal from the
:47:12. > :47:16.mayor and assessed it without politicising it? I don't think he
:47:17. > :47:23.has politicised it, the case has been made very clear. The money
:47:24. > :47:26.isn't there, there is a problem. It was fundamentally different set of
:47:27. > :47:29.state of affairs compared to the London Overground changes in south
:47:30. > :47:33.Hertfordshire where there was more money, and you only need to go to
:47:34. > :47:38.those stations as I have to see the improvement in the quality of
:47:39. > :47:41.stations and the track. That wasn't going to be applying to south-east
:47:42. > :47:47.London and until such time as that plan is in place, it is right Chris
:47:48. > :47:51.Grayling has said holdback. Mark is getting himself into a real knot
:47:52. > :47:58.over this. The fact is there is cross-party agreement on TfL and the
:47:59. > :48:07.Mayor of London having control over this. What is not clear is why Chris
:48:08. > :48:13.railing is focusing on passenger interest, that is the priority. It
:48:14. > :48:17.is politically motivated. Did he ask those questions of Boris Johnson
:48:18. > :48:21.when he gave him a blank cheque and said fine, you can be in charge but
:48:22. > :48:27.if there is a Labour mayor you can't... The point is that Chris
:48:28. > :48:31.Grayling is not prioritising the interests of commuters. He should be
:48:32. > :48:36.focusing on that instead of politicising the matter and Bob
:48:37. > :48:42.Neill is. This week Sadiq Khan and you have produced a business plan
:48:43. > :48:48.with Transport for London and Sadiq Khan has been describing transport
:48:49. > :48:53.for London as floppy, and you can find ?4 million of cuts over five
:48:54. > :48:59.years, so why would Chris Grayling pass control to such an inadequate
:49:00. > :49:03.organisation? It is difficult to see what's changed since the Government
:49:04. > :49:07.agreed in the early part of the year in the document between Boris and
:49:08. > :49:14.Patrick McLoughlin, actually allow TfL to take control of these
:49:15. > :49:20.franchises. He can now see that TfL is floppy. They have put forward a
:49:21. > :49:24.detailed business case that has jumped through the hoops and the
:49:25. > :49:28.business plan we have just put in place is a tightly managed business
:49:29. > :49:32.plan and we know we can run this service better. I think if you ask
:49:33. > :49:36.the passengers of south London what they think, they would like... I'm
:49:37. > :49:40.asking about the five-year investment plan and the mayor
:49:41. > :49:45.describing TfL as not fit for purpose so why would you, when you
:49:46. > :49:51.are finding those cuts, why would you be given another service to run?
:49:52. > :49:56.It is a good and strong organisation but it is ripe for reform. It has 12
:49:57. > :50:03.layers of management in it, I'm sure even the BBC doesn't have that! It
:50:04. > :50:07.is an organisation where some of the contracts have been gold-plated in
:50:08. > :50:12.the past, and it has duplication within it because it was made up of
:50:13. > :50:15.a number of... We can find a lot of savings in this organisation and we
:50:16. > :50:21.have been public about what we are doing and how we are doing it.
:50:22. > :50:25.Nobody has questioned, no serious questions have been thought about
:50:26. > :50:28.the business plan that really seriously challenges it. We would
:50:29. > :50:35.like this to be publicly examined. We would like an independent
:50:36. > :50:40.assessment to be done on it. Let the core of professional judgment and
:50:41. > :50:42.public opinion decide this case. Stay with us.
:50:43. > :50:44.Four big international cities have just announced
:50:45. > :50:46.they are going to impose a ban on diesel vehicles.
:50:47. > :50:48.Presumably London's mayor and his deputy mayor
:50:49. > :50:52.Given how much emphasis he's placing on tackling air pollution
:50:53. > :50:55.Well, no, actually, as Dan Freedman reports.
:50:56. > :50:59.Four out of the last ten days here in London have had high or very
:51:00. > :51:01.high pollution levels, prompting these warnings at bus
:51:02. > :51:06.And it's the most vulnerable who are most at risk according
:51:07. > :51:14.So we have been to speak to children at a school in Hackney.
:51:15. > :51:17.When I breathe in, it doesn't taste very nice.
:51:18. > :51:20.I had a really bad cough for the whole week.
:51:21. > :51:31.A couple of cars went by, as soon as they rushed
:51:32. > :51:34.by you could hardly breathe because the air was so thick.
:51:35. > :51:39.My son also had to take an extra puff of his inhaler,
:51:40. > :51:42.he was coughing more in the evening, and that follows a pattern
:51:43. > :51:45.that I have seen over the last couple of years,
:51:46. > :51:48.since he was diagnosed as asthmatic, whenever there is a spike in air
:51:49. > :51:50.pollution he is coughing more, wheezing more.
:51:51. > :51:53.It can be managed with his use of inhalers, but there is definitely
:51:54. > :51:58.And it is diesel vehicles which are doing most of the damage,
:51:59. > :52:01.which is why campaigners are urging the mayor to ban them.
:52:02. > :52:04.All sorts of traffic is bad, but diesel is the worst.
:52:05. > :52:09.It is so dangerous for health, we have to get it off our streets.
:52:10. > :52:13.It's an old fuel, it's not the future.
:52:14. > :52:16.Madrid, Paris, Athens, and Mexico City have just pledged
:52:17. > :52:20.to ban diesel vehicles by 2025 from their city centres.
:52:21. > :52:24.The mayor of Paris says it is due to 2,500 deaths
:52:25. > :52:26.a year caused by bad air, across an albeit larger
:52:27. > :52:32.The figure is nearly four times that amount, as a result
:52:33. > :52:40.Unfortunately we have got the perfect blend
:52:41. > :52:44.of slow-moving traffic, not much wind, and it means
:52:45. > :52:49.there is kind of a foggy, misty grime hanging in the air,
:52:50. > :52:52.that you can really taste, and to boot we are getting a load
:52:53. > :52:57.of air over from Paris which is also polluted.
:52:58. > :53:00.It is all adding to a pretty toxic mix here in London,
:53:01. > :53:04.sending our pollution levels incredibly high.
:53:05. > :53:06.This week City Hall assigned ?875 million over five years
:53:07. > :53:14.This involves money to help clean up our buses, it
:53:15. > :53:16.will be cleaning up taxis, it will help fund the bringing
:53:17. > :53:20.forward of the ultra low-emission zone.
:53:21. > :53:24.But they have ruled out a ban on diesel vehicles.
:53:25. > :53:29.That is not what we are asking the Government to do,
:53:30. > :53:33.we feel a combination of the charging, and bringing
:53:34. > :53:37.forward the low-emission zone, plus incentives to clean up
:53:38. > :53:39.vehicles, to move away from dirty diesel vehicles
:53:40. > :53:44.is a better way to go, but we need the Government's help.
:53:45. > :53:48.If you look at the toxicity charge, that is in Central London and it
:53:49. > :53:51.isn't on every single diesel vehicle, if you look at the ultra
:53:52. > :53:55.low-emission zone it is only being expanded for all vehicles
:53:56. > :53:58.around the north and South Circular, so places in outer London are really
:53:59. > :54:08.So what is being proposed isn't enough and it isn't commensurate
:54:09. > :54:12.So a sense of frustration in some quarters, knowing full
:54:13. > :54:24.There is a letter here. All of these organisations, Greenpeace, every
:54:25. > :54:32.single one of them saying we'd like some of the signals from you and the
:54:33. > :54:36.current mayor but ban it by 2025, why not? We have a really strong
:54:37. > :54:40.programme in place with the ultralow emissions zone and we will make a
:54:41. > :54:45.difference with reducing air pollution in London. It's not just
:54:46. > :54:49.focused on central London. The point was wrong there because although the
:54:50. > :54:53.ultralow emissions zone will come into central London hopefully in
:54:54. > :54:58.2019 which will cover all vehicles, in fact the zone for heavy goods
:54:59. > :55:03.vehicles including buses and coaches will cover the whole of London for
:55:04. > :55:08.that time. What is the problem with that ban, the timeline thing? We
:55:09. > :55:11.have got a programme we are sticking to because we have funded it, we
:55:12. > :55:16.have the legal framework, we have the consultations in place and
:55:17. > :55:19.what's more, companies like the coach companies and heavy goods
:55:20. > :55:25.vehicle operators have had warning in order to change their technology.
:55:26. > :55:30.We don't want to dash back to petrol because that would have a carbon
:55:31. > :55:34.emissions impact. It is important to get a transformation of technology.
:55:35. > :55:42.Have you done a cost benefit analysis and worked out how much the
:55:43. > :55:47.T charge will bring in? This is not about money, it is about cleaning up
:55:48. > :55:50.the air in London. We have put money into the business plan we have got
:55:51. > :55:54.to fund the infrastructure and the programme we will need to enforce
:55:55. > :55:57.this and make sure it happens so at the moment the front end will cost a
:55:58. > :56:03.lot of money but that's OK because... But does this bring in
:56:04. > :56:07.more money than a complete ban? It is nothing to do with money, the
:56:08. > :56:11.priority here is people's health. It is in central London where we get
:56:12. > :56:15.the worst air quality and Heathrow by the way, so you will see as part
:56:16. > :56:22.of the plan we have got, we will have cleaned up every bus in London
:56:23. > :56:26.by the time the ultralow emissions zone comes in. We already have
:56:27. > :56:30.electric leads coming in and we are talking to heavy goods vehicles and
:56:31. > :56:38.coach operators so this will have a big impact. Wouldn't you want to see
:56:39. > :56:43.it come in sooner or a complete ban? I have been lobbying the previous
:56:44. > :56:47.mayor, as have many London MPs, and we saw him in denial, withdrawing
:56:48. > :56:51.information about the worst affected areas like in Tower Hamlets. I have
:56:52. > :56:56.one school which is the worst affected in the country, nearly
:56:57. > :57:00.10,000 people die per year in London but it is a national problem as well
:57:01. > :57:09.with 40,000 people nationally so we need action at a national level and
:57:10. > :57:15.a London level. I'm delighted Sadiq Khan has doubled the funding... So
:57:16. > :57:19.you are happy, but not a ban? There needs to be more urgency and it was
:57:20. > :57:24.the same criticism I made of Boris Johnson as well. It was widely
:57:25. > :57:28.regarded that diesel was the safer option, we now know that nitrous
:57:29. > :57:31.dioxide is a much bigger problem for our asthmatic young children and
:57:32. > :57:36.adults for that matter, and particularly applies at
:57:37. > :57:44.Knightsbridge, Euston and Marylebone Road in my own constituency. I agree
:57:45. > :57:48.we don't want to rush into anything. That was the problem, we had the
:57:49. > :57:53.rush with diesel and now the unintended consequences that have
:57:54. > :57:58.come into play, and many people have incentivised to go down the diesel
:57:59. > :58:04.route. I hope in time TfL will bring it forward, I hope there is more
:58:05. > :58:05.urgency than nine years' time for an outright ban. Thank you very much
:58:06. > :58:07.for coming in. Now it's time for the political
:58:08. > :58:14.news in 60 seconds. A record investment in cycling
:58:15. > :58:17.was announced by the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan,
:58:18. > :58:21.committing 770 million to improve cycling infrastructure,
:58:22. > :58:23.and promote cycling in the capital City Hall claim the money allocated
:58:24. > :58:31.is double the spending on cycling made by previous Mayor Boris
:58:32. > :58:36.Johnson. A row has broken out
:58:37. > :58:38.between Jeremy Corbyn loyalists over proposals to split the Tottenham
:58:39. > :58:43.constituency in two. It is claimed that Labour's
:58:44. > :58:46.submission to the boundary commission was a clear attempt
:58:47. > :58:50.to ensure that Mr Corbyn retained his Islington seat
:58:51. > :58:52.by redrawing boundaries so he faced The Mayor of London has announced
:58:53. > :58:58.that step-free access on the Underground will get
:58:59. > :59:01.a financial boost, bringing the total number of stations
:59:02. > :59:07.with access to more than 100. The current level of
:59:08. > :59:27.26% will rise to 40%. Mark, central London, that cycle
:59:28. > :59:31.lane on the embankment, supporter of that? I can understand the mentality
:59:32. > :59:34.that says we need to have a joined up cycle lane but the trouble is
:59:35. > :59:37.there's been a huge amount of congestion as a result of reducing
:59:38. > :59:45.the number of lanes on what is already a very busy road. There's a
:59:46. > :59:47.problem in constituency as well towards the Lancaster gate area,
:59:48. > :59:54.that has become problematic so we all have constituents talking about
:59:55. > :59:59.that. Should he maybe even tear them out if necessary? No, he should look
:00:00. > :00:03.at where the disruption is. Boris introduced the cycle lanes and it
:00:04. > :00:07.was done quickly which has caused a lot of frustration among drivers but
:00:08. > :00:12.also cyclists. The thing I am keen to see is more emphasis on cycling
:00:13. > :00:15.safety and HGV vehicles which is still the biggest factor. We are
:00:16. > :00:16.running out of time. Now, Foreign Secretary
:00:17. > :00:30.Boris Johnson was rebuked by Downing Street this week -
:00:31. > :00:33.yes, again - after the Guardian revealed he had accused Saudi Arabia
:00:34. > :00:36.of being among countries engaged in fighting "proxy wars"
:00:37. > :00:38.in the Middle East, breaking the Foreign Office's convention
:00:39. > :00:41.of not criticising a key UK ally in the region and annoying the prime
:00:42. > :00:43.minister who'd just returned The Defence Secretary Michael Fallon
:00:44. > :00:50.was asked about it And let's be very clear about this,
:00:51. > :00:58.the way some of his remarks were reported seemed to imply
:00:59. > :01:00.we didn't support the right of Saudi Arabia to defend itself,
:01:01. > :01:04.and it is being attacked by Houthi terrorists from over
:01:05. > :01:05.the border with Yemen, didn't support what Saudi is doing
:01:06. > :01:08.in leading the campaign to restore Some of the reporting led people
:01:09. > :01:16.to think that, and that is all... This was simply the way
:01:17. > :01:18.it was reported and interpreted. The way it was interpreted left
:01:19. > :01:21.people with the impression that we didn't support Saudi Arabia
:01:22. > :01:30.and we do. Well, Mr Johnson has been
:01:31. > :01:32.in the Saudi capital Riyadh this morning,
:01:33. > :01:34.so how's he been received? Our security correspondent
:01:35. > :01:36.Frank Gardner is in neighbouring Bahrain, where Mr Johnson
:01:37. > :01:46.was earlier in the weekend. It has probably been a long time
:01:47. > :01:50.since there has been such interest in a British Foreign Secretary
:01:51. > :01:57.visiting the gulf region. What are the political elites there making of
:01:58. > :02:01.it all? Well, they think to be honest it is a bit of a storm in a
:02:02. > :02:06.tea cup this is a bit of a Whitehall story, I think a lot of people I
:02:07. > :02:10.have spoken to tend to believe that Number Ten have made such a fuss
:02:11. > :02:16.about this, that it has created a story in itself. That said, though,
:02:17. > :02:19.I think that behind the scenes there was a certain amount of damage
:02:20. > :02:24.limitation taking place between London and Riyadh, a bit of
:02:25. > :02:28.smoothing of feathers and reassuring and the Stade Saudis tell me they
:02:29. > :02:33.are reassured the message they are taking is. Coming from Number Ten
:02:34. > :02:37.and they are not taking Boris Johnson's comments to heart. He is
:02:38. > :02:42.in the dam, he has met the king, I tweet add picture of that just a few
:02:43. > :02:48.minutes ago. He has been meeting Crown Prince, and he is now meeting
:02:49. > :02:51.the Foreign Minister, so the Saudis got an opportunity to brief him
:02:52. > :02:54.according to their vision of the Middle East. They will share their
:02:55. > :02:59.security concern, which is not just what is going on in Yemen, but they
:03:00. > :03:03.are very concerned about what they see as Iranian expansionism, that
:03:04. > :03:07.has been a theme here at this conference in Bahrain that Boris
:03:08. > :03:12.Johnson addressed only a day or two ago. If we put aside Mr Johnson's
:03:13. > :03:17.supposed gaffes or even the Downing Street slapping down of him, we have
:03:18. > :03:25.had the Prime Minister in the region earlier this week, we have got Mr
:03:26. > :03:33.Johnson there now, can we yet divine what the May Government strategy is
:03:34. > :03:38.in the Golf? -- Guff. In three words, in Boris Johnson's words
:03:39. > :03:45.Britain is back. He was very quick to say not in a jingoistic running
:03:46. > :03:50.up flags, new imperial list way, although that is Howley be seen by
:03:51. > :03:56.some. He gave a very forceful speech which seemed to go down well the
:03:57. > :04:01.gulf hosts here on Friday night which said Britain made a strategic
:04:02. > :04:07.mistake in, after 1968 in withdrawing east of Suez and it will
:04:08. > :04:14.reverse that decision, and invest ?3 billion over the next ten years in
:04:15. > :04:17.building up its military not bases exactly but facilities -- facilities
:04:18. > :04:20.that are here in this part of the world. There are currently 15
:04:21. > :04:24.hundred hundred British servicemen and women in this region, seven
:04:25. > :04:29.warships and so on. It isn't entirely true to say Britain
:04:30. > :04:34.withdrew east of Suez because we have had a military presence on and
:04:35. > :04:39.off here, the RAF had a base here in Bahrain during the Gulf War of 91.
:04:40. > :04:47.In 2003, of course, British planes and troops deployed from this area,
:04:48. > :04:50.but he and Theresa May are both saying post-Brexit, Britain's big
:04:51. > :04:55.emphasis or one of the big pushes is going to be to redouble its ties
:04:56. > :05:01.with gulf Arab nations, that isn't going to come as an easy bit of new,
:05:02. > :05:07.I think, to human rights campaigners and anti-arms campaigners because a
:05:08. > :05:10.large part of the ?7 billion of bilateral trade Britain did with
:05:11. > :05:15.Saudi Arabia comes from arms deals and those arms are being used in the
:05:16. > :05:18.conflict in Yemen, in some cases with tragic consequences. Thank you
:05:19. > :05:27.very much for talking to us. Instead of concentrating on Mr
:05:28. > :05:33.Johnson's gaffes, or Downing Street reaction to it. Frank Gardner there
:05:34. > :05:37.has just given us a really important development, or explained what the
:05:38. > :05:42.British are up to there now. They want to be back in the gulf big
:05:43. > :05:45.time. Isn't that something we should be debating and discussing? It is
:05:46. > :05:50.fascinating. It is yet another example post-Brexit I would say this
:05:51. > :05:55.is someone who voted to Brexit, that the world is changing, and Britain's
:05:56. > :06:00.role is going to be transformed post-Brexit. I mean just on the
:06:01. > :06:04.Boris point, I completely agree, I think a lot of it is ridiculous, in
:06:05. > :06:10.a Whitehall belt way stuff, but I think what is really important about
:06:11. > :06:14.it, is that Number Ten feel threatened by him, and the reason
:06:15. > :06:19.that these ridiculous gaffes and many of them are not even gaffes are
:06:20. > :06:24.pounced upon is he is the main rival for the Crown, so it is high level
:06:25. > :06:28.power play politics, and it is May trying to keep him in his place.
:06:29. > :06:35.What do you make though, of Britain is back in the gulf? That is the big
:06:36. > :06:38.story, is it not. Utterly bizarre, post imperial fantasy, the idea we
:06:39. > :06:44.are back east of Suez? We are breaking off from our closest ally,
:06:45. > :06:49.most like us, the rest of Europe, democratic, decent human rights
:06:50. > :06:55.country, and instead we are allying ourself to perilous, dangerous,
:06:56. > :07:02.unpleasant countries... Why should we be back in the gulf? If that is
:07:03. > :07:07.the trade off, these are, you know, these renasty kingdoms, petty
:07:08. > :07:11.unpleasant and unstable countries. Don't we have to keep the straits
:07:12. > :07:15.open otherwise the oil supply collapses and the world economy will
:07:16. > :07:21.go into the worst recession depression ever? Don't we have to be
:07:22. > :07:24.involved in that We do, and I think what happens is if we leave Europe
:07:25. > :07:28.and we need trade everywhere else, we have to travel the world on our
:07:29. > :07:35.knees begging for friends from the most unsavoury people, where ever
:07:36. > :07:39.they are, whether it is... You keep saying we are leaving Europe, that
:07:40. > :07:44.is a geographic impossibility. Britain is part of Europe, we are
:07:45. > :07:48.the... Not what Liam Fox is saying. The key power in Nato, we are
:07:49. > :07:53.leaving the European Union, that is a different Tring from Europe. I am
:07:54. > :07:58.trying to move away from Mr Johnson, or even Downing Street to... You got
:07:59. > :08:02.yourself into a Brexit row. Everything is through the prism of
:08:03. > :08:07.Brexit, even what you have for breakfast, when you mix up the word
:08:08. > :08:12.like I did last week. What do you make of what Frank Gardner told us?
:08:13. > :08:15.I am somewhere between the two. It is a nighs the line say we are back
:08:16. > :08:18.in the Middle East and we will take this part of the world seriously,
:08:19. > :08:24.the truth is our military is almost tiny, it is smaller than it was in
:08:25. > :08:29.the Napoleonic wars, that is not a huge amount more. Of course there S
:08:30. > :08:34.one of the two new aircraft carriers, that will be deployed in
:08:35. > :08:42.the gulf, to help the Americans keep the straits of her muz open, because
:08:43. > :08:46.it is in Europe's interest, not just Britains, Europe's interest that
:08:47. > :08:52.these straits stay open, which is more so than America. That is what
:08:53. > :08:58.FRANK was talking about. That is no change, British foreign policy has
:08:59. > :09:04.been keeping the straits open... Now we have the ability do it. We don't
:09:05. > :09:13.have an aircraft aier at the moment. Nor do we have the fleet of ships it
:09:14. > :09:17.needs. It is a great thing to be trade morgue with the Nice, to be
:09:18. > :09:22.turning -- Middle East, to be turning round more tax revenues and
:09:23. > :09:26.the like. Even selling weapons. I don't know what more can be done.
:09:27. > :09:30.You look at what has happened. BBC has had horrific reports from the
:09:31. > :09:34.Yemen and if you look at what the weapons are being used for, is that
:09:35. > :09:39.the trade we want? Right. Let us move on. Mr Corbyn was giving a
:09:40. > :09:42.speech yesterday but he was inter#ru79ded by Peter Tatchell.
:09:43. > :09:54.Peter, could we leave this to the questions please?
:09:55. > :09:57.Peter, we are trying to make a speech here and then
:09:58. > :10:11.Was Peter Tatchell right do that yesterday? It is a bit of a
:10:12. > :10:16.distraction really. Jeremy Corbyn 17% in the polled is not going to be
:10:17. > :10:20.able to change... You mean his personal rating. If you want to do
:10:21. > :10:26.something about Syria you ought to be addressing the Government rather
:10:27. > :10:30.than a failing Labour leader. Peter Tatchell's line was Labour in
:10:31. > :10:36.general, Mr Corbyn in particular had not been vocal enough in condemning
:10:37. > :10:42.what the Russians and their Assad allies are doing in Aleppo. It was
:10:43. > :10:46.interesting Mr Corbyn had to ask Emily Thornberry if and when had
:10:47. > :10:54.they condemned what the Russians were doing? It was unclear. Other
:10:55. > :10:59.than Mrs Thornbury herself. There is a fascinating fault line in politics
:11:00. > :11:03.which is the Trump administration, the way in which parts of the
:11:04. > :11:08.British left have made themselves useful idiots once again for the
:11:09. > :11:12.Kremlin and it its policies. I think more broadly, you consider all the
:11:13. > :11:15.things we have been discussing, it is a national tragedy what is
:11:16. > :11:21.happening to the Labour Party. You don't know whether to laugh or cry
:11:22. > :11:25.watching that event. Corbyn was at a stop the war rally event only last
:11:26. > :11:30.week, and they of course are very close to the Kremlin, they blame the
:11:31. > :11:38.west, well they blame the west much more... They always blame the west.
:11:39. > :11:42.And not the Russians. I agree Jeremy Corbyn having to check with Emily
:11:43. > :11:48.Thornberry what the Labour Party's policy was on bombing Aleppo... If
:11:49. > :11:53.and when they condemned it. He needs to no better. The fact that we are
:11:54. > :11:57.talking about what was a pretty small scale protest, rather than
:11:58. > :12:02.anything Corbyn said, shows he wasn't saying anything relevant. We
:12:03. > :12:06.will get a huge amount of tweet saying the BBC are anti-Corbyn. I
:12:07. > :12:09.understand that, that shouldn't intimidate us from saying, from
:12:10. > :12:13.analysing what is happening, and here is one yard stick, of course it
:12:14. > :12:17.is fundamentally the Government's choice, but it could be an indicator
:12:18. > :12:23.of whether the Labour Party is relevant or not in only issues, in
:12:24. > :12:27.reason pert Murdoch is making a take over bid for all of Sky and so far
:12:28. > :12:32.you would have to bet, policy, that it is going to get through pretty
:12:33. > :12:36.much unscathed. It is extraordinary. It is connected with Leveson, and
:12:37. > :12:40.the fact that that has disappeared. That the idea of restraining the
:12:41. > :12:44.press in any way at all, and virtual will I the whole of the press is
:12:45. > :12:50.behind that, and it seems to go with allowing what wasn't allowed before.
:12:51. > :12:55.He was judged as unfit before. He is as unfit now, to control that much
:12:56. > :12:59.of the media, and as he was when he made the last bid for Sky. It is
:13:00. > :13:04.time people stood up and said so. You look at the press he runs, the
:13:05. > :13:09.cultural effect he has has on this country which has been appalling,
:13:10. > :13:16.you know about this. Tom, I better let you have a word. I don't agree
:13:17. > :13:21.at all Polly but the lesson for the Labour Party, is if they don't want
:13:22. > :13:25.to have any influence at all, they have to be credible, and stand a
:13:26. > :13:28.reasonable chance of becoming Prime Minister or becoming Government,
:13:29. > :13:32.that is the only way they will get leverage. We need to leave it there.
:13:33. > :13:39.I was going to say we will come back to it. We will see. The Daily
:13:40. > :13:42.Politics will be back at noon tomorrow.
:13:43. > :13:45.and we'll be back here next Sunday for the last show of 2016.
:13:46. > :14:21.Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:22. > :14:46.# We're going to have a party tonight
:14:47. > :15:09.# I'm going to find that boy underneath the mistletoe
:15:10. > :15:14.# What a nice way to spend the year. #