:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes
:00:45. > :00:47.in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -
:00:48. > :00:54.Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax
:00:55. > :00:56.to fund public services, but will traders just
:00:57. > :01:00.Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,
:01:01. > :01:02.insists he can win this election - so which way will
:01:03. > :01:13.We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.
:01:14. > :01:18.We look at the Green electoral offer and here, what the parties are
:01:19. > :01:26.saying about tackling the air pollution problem in London.
:01:27. > :01:29.And with me, our own scientifically selected focus group
:01:30. > :01:31.of political pundits - they're not so much
:01:32. > :01:33.undecided as clueless - Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:34. > :01:41.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:42. > :01:43.So, we've got two new policies this morning.
:01:44. > :01:45.Labour say they will introduce a financial transaction tax
:01:46. > :01:47.if they win the general election and what they're calling
:01:48. > :01:50."the biggest crackdown on tax avoidance in the country's history".
:01:51. > :01:52.The Conservatives say they'll work with local authorities in England
:01:53. > :01:54.to build council houses with the right to buy.
:01:55. > :01:57.Theresa May says the policy "will help thousands of people
:01:58. > :02:04.get on the first rung of the housing ladder".
:02:05. > :02:12.Steve, what do you make of them? I have been conditioned after doing
:02:13. > :02:16.tax and spend debates in pre-election periods for many
:02:17. > :02:21.decades to treat policy is not as literal but as arguments. In other
:02:22. > :02:25.words if you look back to 2015 the Tory plan to wipe out the deficit
:02:26. > :02:29.was never going to happen and yet it framed and large event. In that
:02:30. > :02:33.sense the Robin Hood tax is a sensible move for Labour to make at
:02:34. > :02:38.this point because it is part of a narrative of reconfiguring taxation
:02:39. > :02:44.to be fair. Treating it as an argument rather than something that
:02:45. > :02:47.would happen in day one of Labour government is sensible. In terms of
:02:48. > :02:50.building houses Theresa May said right from the beginning when she
:02:51. > :02:53.was in Number Ten that there is a housing deficit in this country
:02:54. > :02:59.rather than the economic deficit George Osborne was focusing on, and
:03:00. > :03:02.this is an example of trying to get house-building going. It seems
:03:03. > :03:06.entirely sensible, not sure how it works with right to buy but again as
:03:07. > :03:15.framing of a 90 minute it makes sense. I disagree with Steve on one
:03:16. > :03:20.front which is how sensible Theresa May's policy is on the housing
:03:21. > :03:23.announcement. I think more broadly these two announcements have
:03:24. > :03:29.something in common which is that over the next 24 hours both will
:03:30. > :03:33.probably unravel in different ways. Ye of little faith! The Mayor of
:03:34. > :03:37.London has already said he doesn't agree with this, and when people see
:03:38. > :03:44.the actual impact of what looks like a populist tax will very potentially
:03:45. > :03:48.affect people's pensions, it might become a lot less popular. On the
:03:49. > :03:53.Tory housing plans, I think it is difficult to imagine how they are
:03:54. > :03:59.going to implement this huge, what looks like a huge land and property
:04:00. > :04:03.grab. Through compulsory purchase orders, which are not a simple
:04:04. > :04:07.instrument. They say they will change the law but really the idea
:04:08. > :04:11.of paying people below the market value for their assets is not
:04:12. > :04:18.something I can see sitting easily with Tory backbenchers or the Tories
:04:19. > :04:22.in the House of Lords. Tom. Both would appear superficially to be
:04:23. > :04:29.appealing to traditional left and traditional right bases. What is
:04:30. > :04:36.more Tory than right to buy, then councils sell on these houses, and
:04:37. > :04:41.Labour slapping a massive tax on the city. The Tories' plan, I would say
:04:42. > :04:45.look a bit deeper and all of the Tory narrative from the last six
:04:46. > :04:49.years which hasn't worked well is talking about the private sector
:04:50. > :04:55.increasing supply in the market. Now Mrs May is talking about the role
:04:56. > :05:00.for the state after all so this is the shift creeping in. On the Labour
:05:01. > :05:07.transaction tax, one of the most interesting things I heard in days
:05:08. > :05:11.was from Paul Mason, former BBC correspondent, now a cog in Easter
:05:12. > :05:16.extreme. On Newsnight he said don't worry about whether the Labour
:05:17. > :05:19.manifesto will add up, I'm promising it will, the bigger Tory attack line
:05:20. > :05:28.should be what on earth will be the macroeconomic effect of taking so
:05:29. > :05:30.much tax out of the system. Very well, we shall see. At least we have
:05:31. > :05:32.some policies to talk about. Now, on Tuesday Labour
:05:33. > :05:34.will launch its manifesto. But we've already got a pretty good
:05:35. > :05:37.idea of what's in it - that's because most of its contents
:05:38. > :05:40.were leaked to the media Labour has a variety of spending
:05:41. > :05:49.pledges including an extra ?6 billion a year for the NHS,
:05:50. > :05:52.an additional ?8 billion for social care over the lifetime
:05:53. > :05:54.of the next parliament, as well as a ?250 billion
:05:55. > :05:56.in infrastructure over The party will support the renewal
:05:57. > :06:03.of the Trident submarine system, although any Prime Minister should
:06:04. > :06:05.be extremely cautious about its use, and the party
:06:06. > :06:08.will hold a strategic defence and security review immediately
:06:09. > :06:10.after the election. In terms of immigration,
:06:11. > :06:13.Labour will seek "reasonable management of migration",
:06:14. > :06:15.but it will not make "false Elsewhere, university tuition
:06:16. > :06:21.fees will be abolished, and the public sector pay cap,
:06:22. > :06:24.which limits pay rises for public sector workers
:06:25. > :06:27.to 1%, will be scrapped. The party also aims to renationalise
:06:28. > :06:30.the railways, the Royal Mail and the National Grid,
:06:31. > :06:37.as well as creating at least one A senior Labour backbencher
:06:38. > :06:43.described it to the Sunday Politics as a manifesto for a leadership
:06:44. > :06:45.who don't "give a toss about the wider public",
:06:46. > :06:47.and several other Labour candidates told us they thought it
:06:48. > :06:49.had been deliberately leaked by the leadership,
:06:50. > :06:53.with one suggesting the leak was intended to "bounce
:06:54. > :06:55.the National Executive" And we're joined now from Salford
:06:56. > :07:05.by the Shadow Business Secretary, Welcome to the programme. The draft
:07:06. > :07:10.manifesto proposed to renationalise the number of industry. You will
:07:11. > :07:14.wait for the franchises to run out rather than buy them out at the
:07:15. > :07:19.moment so can you confirm the railways will not be wholly
:07:20. > :07:25.nationalised until 2030, after three Labour governments, and Jeremy
:07:26. > :07:29.Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to comment on leaks, you will just have
:07:30. > :07:35.to be patient and wait to see what is in our manifesto. But you have
:07:36. > :07:40.already announced you will nationalise the railways, so tell me
:07:41. > :07:44.about it. We have discussed taking the franchises into public ownership
:07:45. > :07:49.as they expire, however the detail will be set out in the manifesto so
:07:50. > :07:54.I'm not prepared to go into detail until that policy is formally laid
:07:55. > :07:59.out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound very hopeful but let's carry on. You
:08:00. > :08:05.will also nationalise the National Grid, it has a market capitalisation
:08:06. > :08:09.of ?40 billion, why do you want to nationalise that? Again, I'm not
:08:10. > :08:13.going to speculate on leaks, you will just have to be patient. But
:08:14. > :08:20.you said you will nationalise the National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks
:08:21. > :08:25.have suggested but you will just have to wait and see what the final
:08:26. > :08:30.manifesto states on that one. So is it a waste of time me asking you how
:08:31. > :08:35.you will pay for something that costs 40 billion? Be patient, just
:08:36. > :08:40.couple of days to go, but what I would say is there is growing
:08:41. > :08:44.pressure from the public to reform the utilities sector. The
:08:45. > :08:49.Competition and Markets Authority stated in 2015 that bill payers were
:08:50. > :08:52.paying over till debt -- ?2 billion in excess of what they should be
:08:53. > :08:59.paying so there is a clear need for reform. The bills we get are from
:09:00. > :09:01.the energy companies, you are not going to nationalise them, you are
:09:02. > :09:07.going to nationalise the distribution company and I wondered
:09:08. > :09:11.what is the case for nationalising the distribution company? As I said,
:09:12. > :09:16.our full plans will be set out on Tuesday. In relation to the big six
:09:17. > :09:23.energy companies, we know in recent years they have been overcharging
:09:24. > :09:27.customers... There's no point in answering questions I am not asking.
:09:28. > :09:32.I am asking what is the case for nationalising the National Grid?
:09:33. > :09:36.There is a case for reforming the energy sector as a whole and that
:09:37. > :09:40.looks at the activities of the big six companies and it will look at
:09:41. > :09:46.other aspects too. You will have to be patient and wait until Tuesday.
:09:47. > :09:53.What about the Royal Mail? Again, you will have to wait until Tuesday.
:09:54. > :09:57.Why can't you just be honest with the British voter? We know you are
:09:58. > :10:05.going to do this and you have a duty to explain. I'm not even arguing
:10:06. > :10:09.whether it is right or wrong. The Royal Mail was sold off and we know
:10:10. > :10:14.it was sold under value and British taxpayers have a reason to feel
:10:15. > :10:17.aggrieved about that. There is a long-term strategy that would ensure
:10:18. > :10:21.the Royal Mail was classified as a key piece of infrastructure but the
:10:22. > :10:26.details of that will be set out in our manifesto because we want to
:10:27. > :10:28.ensure businesses and households ensure the best quality of service
:10:29. > :10:36.when it comes to their postal providers. You plan to borrow an
:10:37. > :10:40.extra 25 billion per year, John McDonnell has already announced
:10:41. > :10:44.this, on public investment, on top of the around 50 billion already
:10:45. > :10:48.being planned for investment. You will borrow it all so that means, if
:10:49. > :10:58.you can confirm, that many years after the crash by 2021, Labour
:10:59. > :11:05.government would still be borrowing 75 billion a year. Is that correct?
:11:06. > :11:10.We have set out ?250 billion of capital investment, and ?250 billion
:11:11. > :11:14.for a national investment bank. Our financial and fiscal rules dictate
:11:15. > :11:17.we will leave the Government in a state of less debt than we found it
:11:18. > :11:24.at the start of the parliament so we won't increase the national debt at
:11:25. > :11:28.the end of our Parliamentary term. How can you do that if by 2021 you
:11:29. > :11:34.will still be borrowing around 75 billion a year, which is more than
:11:35. > :11:38.we borrow at the moment? The 500 billion figure is set out over a
:11:39. > :11:41.period of ten years, it's a figure that has been suggested by Peter
:11:42. > :11:47.Helm from Oxford University as a figure that is necessary to bring us
:11:48. > :11:52.in line with other industrial competitors. Similar figures have
:11:53. > :11:59.been suggested by groups such as the CBI. By the way I have not included
:12:00. > :12:03.all 500 billion, just the 250 billion on public spending, not the
:12:04. > :12:07.extra money. You talk about the fiscal rules. The draft manifesto
:12:08. > :12:11.said you will leave debt as a proportion of trend GDP law at the
:12:12. > :12:18.end of each parliament, you have just said a version of that. What is
:12:19. > :12:22.trend GDP? In clear terms we will ensure the debt we acquire will be
:12:23. > :12:26.reduced by the end of the parliament. We won't leave the
:12:27. > :12:35.Government finances in a worse state than we found them. OK, but what is
:12:36. > :12:39.trend GDP? Our rule is we will ensure public sector net debt is
:12:40. > :12:44.less than we found it when we came to power in Government on June the
:12:45. > :12:50.8th. But that is not what your draft manifesto says. I'm not going to
:12:51. > :12:54.comment on leaks, you are just going to have to wait until Tuesday to
:12:55. > :12:59.look at the fine detail and perhaps we will have another chat then. You
:13:00. > :13:03.have published your plans for corporation tax and you will
:13:04. > :13:07.increase it by a third and your predictions assumed that will get an
:13:08. > :13:13.extra 20 billion a year by the end of the parliament. But that assumes
:13:14. > :13:17.the companies don't change their behaviour, that they move money
:13:18. > :13:22.around, they leave the country or they generate smaller profits. Is
:13:23. > :13:26.that realistic? You are right to make that point and you will see
:13:27. > :13:30.when we set out our policies and costings in the manifesto that we
:13:31. > :13:35.haven't spent all of the tax take. We have allowed for different
:13:36. > :13:39.differentials and potential changes in market activity because that
:13:40. > :13:46.would be approved and direction to take. But corporation tax is allowed
:13:47. > :13:51.to be cut in France and the United States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin.
:13:52. > :13:54.Many companies based in Britain are already wondering whether they
:13:55. > :13:59.should relocate because of Brexit, if you increase this tax by a third
:14:00. > :14:04.couldn't that clinch it for a number of them? No, we will still be one of
:14:05. > :14:09.the lowest corporation tax rate in the G7. Let's look at what's
:14:10. > :14:13.important for business. Cutting corporation tax in itself doesn't
:14:14. > :14:18.improve productivity, or business investment and there's no suggestion
:14:19. > :14:23.cutting corporation tax in recent years has achieved that. Businesses
:14:24. > :14:27.need an investment in tools in things they need to thrive and
:14:28. > :14:32.prosper, they also need to reduce the burden at the lower end of the
:14:33. > :14:36.tax scale, before we get to the Prophet stage. One key example is
:14:37. > :14:43.business rates. We have made the proposal to government to in --
:14:44. > :14:45.exclude machinery so businesses can invest and grow operations in the
:14:46. > :14:59.future but the Government refused. Corporation tax has been cut since
:15:00. > :15:06.2010. When it was 28% it brought in ?43 billion a year. Now it is down
:15:07. > :15:12.to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a year. By cutting it in the last
:15:13. > :15:18.year, it brought in 21% more, so what is the problem? It might have
:15:19. > :15:22.brought in more money, but has it increased business investment in the
:15:23. > :15:28.long term. It is not just about cutting corporation tax, but it is
:15:29. > :15:33.on the ability of businesses to thrive and prosper. Business
:15:34. > :15:38.investment in the UK is below are industrial competitors. Wages are
:15:39. > :15:43.stagnating which doesn't indicate businesses are not doing well. Let
:15:44. > :15:50.me get it right, you are arguing if we increase business tax by a third,
:15:51. > :15:58.that will increase investment? I am not saying that. You just did. Know
:15:59. > :16:03.I didn't, I said reducing business tax isn't enough, you have to invest
:16:04. > :16:07.in the things businesses need to thrive and prosper. You have also
:16:08. > :16:17.got to lessen the burden on business. You have announced a
:16:18. > :16:23.financial transaction tax. Your own labour Mayor of London said he has
:16:24. > :16:27.vowed to fight it. He said I do not want a unilateral tax on business in
:16:28. > :16:32.our city, so why are you proceeding with it? This isn't a new
:16:33. > :16:37.initiative, there is a growing global pressure to make sure we have
:16:38. > :16:40.fairness in the financial sector. Ordinary British people are paying
:16:41. > :16:47.for our banking crisis they didn't cause. Another important point,
:16:48. > :16:51.stamp duty reserve tax was brought in in the 1600 and there have been
:16:52. > :16:55.little reforms. The sector has changed and we have do provide
:16:56. > :17:01.changes to the system for that change. High-frequency trading where
:17:02. > :17:05.we have a state of affairs where a lot of shares are traded on
:17:06. > :17:11.computers within milliseconds. We need a tax system that keeps up with
:17:12. > :17:17.that. What happens if they move the computers to another country? Emily
:17:18. > :17:21.Thornaby said this morning, other countries had already introduced a
:17:22. > :17:28.financial transaction tax, what other countries have done that?
:17:29. > :17:36.There are ten countries looking at introducing a transaction tax. Which
:17:37. > :17:41.ones have done it so far? They will be later announcing a final package,
:17:42. > :17:44.going through the finer detail at the moment. But the European
:17:45. > :17:49.Commission tried to get this done in 2011 and it still hasn't happened in
:17:50. > :17:53.any of these countries. But you are going to go ahead unilaterally and
:17:54. > :17:58.risk these businesses, which generate a lot of money, moving to
:17:59. > :18:05.other jurisdictions. There is not a significant risk of that happening.
:18:06. > :18:14.The stamp duty reserve tax is levied at either where the person or
:18:15. > :18:19.company is domiciled or where the instrument is issued rather than
:18:20. > :18:23.worth the transaction takes place. This tax in itself is not enough to
:18:24. > :18:26.make people leave this country in terms of financial services because
:18:27. > :18:31.there is more to keep these businesses here in terms of the
:18:32. > :18:35.investment we are making, the economy that Labour will build, in
:18:36. > :18:37.terms of productivity improvement we will see. Thank you very much,
:18:38. > :18:42.Rebecca Long-Bailey. And listening to that was the Home
:18:43. > :18:53.Office Minister, Brandon Lewis. Over the years, you have got
:18:54. > :18:57.corporation tax by 20%, it is lower than international standards, so why
:18:58. > :19:03.are so many global companies who make money out of Great Britain,
:19:04. > :19:07.still not paying 20%? It is one of the problems with the point Labour
:19:08. > :19:12.were making and Rebecca could not answer, these companies can move
:19:13. > :19:16.around the world. One of the important things is having a low tax
:19:17. > :19:21.economy but these businesses, it encourages them to come at a rate
:19:22. > :19:28.they are prepared to pay. People may say they are right, if they were
:19:29. > :19:34.paying 19, 20% incorporation tax. But they are not. Google runs a
:19:35. > :19:40.multi-million pound corporation and did not pay anywhere near 20%. There
:19:41. > :19:44.are companies that are trading internationally and that is why we
:19:45. > :19:53.have to get this work done with our partners around the world. Has there
:19:54. > :19:56.been an improvement? It is more than they were paying before. Whether it
:19:57. > :20:02.is Google or any other company, alongside them being here, apart
:20:03. > :20:07.from the tax they pay, it is the people they employ. The deal was, if
:20:08. > :20:10.you cut the business tax, the corporation tax on profits, we would
:20:11. > :20:16.get more companies coming here and more companies paying their tax. It
:20:17. > :20:19.seems it doesn't matter how low, a number of companies just pay a
:20:20. > :20:26.derisory amount and you haven't been able to change that. As you
:20:27. > :20:33.outlined, the income taken from the changing corporation tax has gone
:20:34. > :20:36.up. That is from established British companies, not from these
:20:37. > :20:39.international companies. It is because more companies are coming
:20:40. > :20:44.here and paying tax. That is a good thing. There is always more to do
:20:45. > :20:49.and that is why we want to crack down. In the last few weeks in the
:20:50. > :20:54.Finnish Parliament, Labour refused to put to another ?8.7 billion of
:20:55. > :21:00.tax take we could have got by cracking down further. You claim to
:21:01. > :21:06.have made great progress on cracking down on people and companies to pay
:21:07. > :21:11.the tax they should. But the tax gap is the difference between what HMRC
:21:12. > :21:18.takes in and what it should take in. It has barely moved in five years,
:21:19. > :21:22.so where is the progress? He have brought in 150 billion more where we
:21:23. > :21:29.have cracked down on those tax schemes. The gap is still the same
:21:30. > :21:35.as it was five years ago. It's gone from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down.
:21:36. > :21:38.The Prime Minister and the Chancellor said they want to
:21:39. > :21:41.continue work on to get more money on these companies while still
:21:42. > :21:51.having a competitive rate to encourage these companies. While big
:21:52. > :21:53.business and the wealthy continue to prosper, the Office for Budget
:21:54. > :21:58.Responsibility tell us those on average earnings in this country
:21:59. > :22:04.will be earning less in real terms by 2021 than they did in 2008. How
:22:05. > :22:10.can that be fair? I don't see it that way. I haven't seen the figures
:22:11. > :22:13.you have got. What I can say to you, Andrew, we have made sure the
:22:14. > :22:18.minimum wage has gone up, the actual income tax people pay has gone down.
:22:19. > :22:27.So in their pocket, real terms, people have more money. You are the
:22:28. > :22:30.self-styled party of work. We keep emphasising work. Under your
:22:31. > :22:35.government you can work for 13 years and still not earn any more at the
:22:36. > :22:41.end of it, and you did at the start. Where is the reward for effort in
:22:42. > :22:47.that? I have not seen those figures. There are 2.8 million more people,
:22:48. > :22:52.more jobs in economy than there was. 1000 jobs every day and people are
:22:53. > :22:56.working and developing through their careers. This is what I thought was
:22:57. > :22:59.odd in what Rebecca was saying, investing in people is what the
:23:00. > :23:04.apprenticeship levy is about, companies are investing their works
:23:05. > :23:09.force to take more opportunities that there. We are talking about
:23:10. > :23:12.fairness, politicians talk about hard-working people and we know the
:23:13. > :23:18.average earnings are no higher than they were in 2008. We know the pay
:23:19. > :23:22.and bonuses of senior executives have continued to grow and the
:23:23. > :23:25.Institute for Fiscal Studies has shown 3 million of the poorest
:23:26. > :23:30.households will lose an average of ?2500 a year in the next Parliament,
:23:31. > :23:38.benefits frozen, further sanctions kick in. 3 million of the poorest
:23:39. > :23:43.losing 2500. Under the Tories, one law for the rich and another for the
:23:44. > :23:47.poor. It is quite wrong. First of all, we have got to be fair to the
:23:48. > :23:52.taxpayer who is funding the welfare and benefit system. Which is why the
:23:53. > :24:02.welfare was right. Get more people in work and then it is important to
:24:03. > :24:05.get more people upscaling. As that allowance rises, people have more of
:24:06. > :24:12.the money they earn in their pocket to be able to use in the economy.
:24:13. > :24:17.People will be worse off. 2500, among the poorest already. They will
:24:18. > :24:24.have more money in their pocket as we increase the allowance before
:24:25. > :24:29.people pay tax. We have seen millions of people coming out of tax
:24:30. > :24:33.altogether. The reason I ask these questions, you and the Prime
:24:34. > :24:37.Minister go on and on about the just about managing classes. I am talking
:24:38. > :24:42.about the just about managing and below that. It is all talk, you
:24:43. > :24:45.haven't done anything for them. We have made sure they have an
:24:46. > :24:52.increasing minimum wage, it has gone up more under us than any other
:24:53. > :24:58.previous government. Their wages will be still lower in real terms.
:24:59. > :25:02.Let me come on to this plan for housing. We have announced a new
:25:03. > :25:07.plan to increase affordable housing, social housing, some council housing
:25:08. > :25:12.and social housing built by the associations. How much money is
:25:13. > :25:17.behind this? It is part of the 1.4 billion announced in the Autumn
:25:18. > :25:22.Statement. How many homes will you get for 1.4 billion? That depends on
:25:23. > :25:26.the negotiations with local authorities. It is local
:25:27. > :25:33.authorities, who know the area best. I will not put a number on that. 1.4
:25:34. > :25:38.billion, if you price the house at 100,000, which is very low,
:25:39. > :25:44.particularly for the South, back at you 14,000 new homes. That is it.
:25:45. > :25:48.What we have seen before, how the local government can leveraged to
:25:49. > :25:52.build thousands more homes. That is what we want to see across the
:25:53. > :25:54.country. It is not just about the money, for a lot of local
:25:55. > :26:01.authorities it is about the expertise and knowledge on how to do
:26:02. > :26:04.this. That is why support from the housing communities minister will
:26:05. > :26:11.help. What is the timescale, how many more affordable homes will be
:26:12. > :26:16.built? I will not put a number on it. You announced it today, so you
:26:17. > :26:20.cannot tell me how many more or what the target is? It is a matter of
:26:21. > :26:24.working with the local authorities who know what their local needs are,
:26:25. > :26:28.what land they have got available. What we saw through the local
:26:29. > :26:33.elections with the Metro mayors, they want to deliver in their areas,
:26:34. > :26:35.whether it is the West of England, the north-east, Liverpool,
:26:36. > :26:42.Manchester and we want to work with them. You have said variations of
:26:43. > :26:45.this for the past seven years and I want some credibility. When you
:26:46. > :26:51.cannot tell us how much money, what the target and timescale is, and
:26:52. > :26:56.this government, under which affordable house building has fallen
:26:57. > :27:00.to a 24 year low. 1.2 million families are on waiting lists for
:27:01. > :27:05.social housing to rent. That is your record. Why should we believe a word
:27:06. > :27:10.you say? This is different to what we have been doing over the last two
:27:11. > :27:14.years. We want to develop and have a strong and stable economy that can
:27:15. > :27:24.sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This is important. In 2010, we inherited
:27:25. > :27:28.the lowest level of house building, 75,000 new homes. That is about
:27:29. > :27:33.189,000 over the last four years. That is a big step forward after the
:27:34. > :27:43.crash, getting people back into the industry. More first-time buyers
:27:44. > :27:48.onto the market. Final question, in 2010, 2011, your first year in
:27:49. > :27:54.government, there were 60,000 affordable homes built. May not be
:27:55. > :28:00.enough, but last day it was 30 2000. So why should we trust anything you
:28:01. > :28:08.say about this? On housing, we have delivered. We have delivered more
:28:09. > :28:14.social housing. Double what Labour did in 13 years, in just five years.
:28:15. > :28:17.This is what this policy is about, working with local authorities to
:28:18. > :28:21.deliver more homes to people in their local areas. Thank you.
:28:22. > :28:24.Now, they have a deficit of between 15 and 20% in the polls,
:28:25. > :28:27.but Jeremy Corbyn and those around him insist Labour can win.
:28:28. > :28:30.If the polls are right they've got three and half weeks to change
:28:31. > :28:32.voters' minds and persuade those fabled undecided voters
:28:33. > :28:37.We enlisted the polling organisation YouGov to help us find out how
:28:38. > :28:39.the performance of party leaders will affect behaviour
:28:40. > :28:48.Leeds, a city of three quarters of a million people,
:28:49. > :28:53.eight Parliamentary seats and home to our very own focus group.
:28:54. > :28:56.Our panel was recruited from a variety of backgrounds
:28:57. > :29:00.and the majority say they haven't decided who to vote for yet.
:29:01. > :29:02.Watching behind the glass, two experts on different sides
:29:03. > :29:09.Giles Cunningham, who headed up political press at Downing Street
:29:10. > :29:15.under David Cameron and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter,
:29:16. > :29:17.under David Cameron and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter,
:29:18. > :29:22.I think Theresa May sees herself as a pound shop Thatcher.
:29:23. > :29:41.Milliband's policies but when it came
:29:42. > :29:45.about who you want, if you wake up on maybe a 2015,
:29:46. > :29:49.We found in a couple of focus groups, people saying
:29:50. > :29:52.we'd be quite relieved, even though some of those same
:29:53. > :29:54.people have been saying we quite like the Labour policies.
:29:55. > :29:58.I think the fact that Corbyn's going so hard on his values,
:29:59. > :30:00.this is a really progressive manifesto, they live
:30:01. > :30:04.But I think that's a new challenge, that wasn't there in 2015.
:30:05. > :30:06.Is there anyone here that you don't recognise?
:30:07. > :30:09.After a little warm up, the first exercise, recognising
:30:10. > :30:15.I think it's nice to have a strong woman in politics, I do.
:30:16. > :30:18.But I've got to say, when she comes on the news,
:30:19. > :30:20.I kind of do think, here we go again.
:30:21. > :30:23.Tell me about Tim Farron, what are your impressions of Tim Farron?
:30:24. > :30:27.It isn't going to do anything, it isn't going to change anything.
:30:28. > :30:36.You'll be surprised to hear it's actually the Greens.
:30:37. > :30:49.Strong and stable leadership in the national interest.
:30:50. > :30:53.Yes, Team May, it's the British equivalent of make
:30:54. > :31:03.What do we think about this one for the many and not the few?
:31:04. > :31:05.It's not quite as bad as strong and stable,
:31:06. > :31:08.but it will probably get on our nerves after a while.
:31:09. > :31:19.We must seize that chance today and every day until June the 8th.
:31:20. > :31:26.But that's not quite my question, my question is,
:31:27. > :31:29.if you are Prime Minister, we will leave, come hell or high
:31:30. > :31:32.water, whatever is on the table at the end of the negotiations?
:31:33. > :31:35.If we win the election, we'll get a good deal with Europe.
:31:36. > :31:37.Assertive and in control and he felt comfortable
:31:38. > :31:42.But the second one, I thought he was very hesitant.
:31:43. > :31:51.I thought he was kind of, hovering around, skirting around
:31:52. > :31:53.and that's the second time I've seen a similar
:31:54. > :31:55.interview with the question being asked regarding Brexit.
:31:56. > :31:57.I don't think I'd have any confidence with him
:31:58. > :32:01.You think you are going up against some quite strong people,
:32:02. > :32:03.how are you going to stand up for us?
:32:04. > :32:08.When you are in negotiations, you need to be tough.
:32:09. > :32:10.And actually is right to be tough sometimes,
:32:11. > :32:12.particularly when you are doing something for the country.
:32:13. > :32:15.There's a reason for talking about strong and stable leadership.
:32:16. > :32:17.It's about the future of the country, it's
:32:18. > :32:21.It's just that people kind of listen to that kind of thing and think
:32:22. > :32:27.Both on The One Show and in the news.
:32:28. > :32:33.She attracts the public better than what Corbyn does.
:32:34. > :32:36.She didn't answer the question in a more articular way than Corbyn
:32:37. > :32:42.Imagine that Theresa May is an animal.
:32:43. > :32:45.So, in your minds, what animal is coming to mind
:32:46. > :32:59.I've done a Pekinese because I think she's all bark and no bite.
:33:00. > :33:05.Alpaca because she's superior looking and woolly
:33:06. > :33:21.I don't think his policies are for the modern, real world.
:33:22. > :33:24.A mouse because they are weak and they can be easily bullied,
:33:25. > :33:27.but also they can catch you by surprise if you're
:33:28. > :33:35.What do you take away from what you saw then,
:33:36. > :33:37.and what message would you send back to the Tories now?
:33:38. > :33:41.I think what came over is people see Theresa May as a strong politician,
:33:42. > :33:43.not everyone likes her, but you don't need to be
:33:44. > :33:45.liked to be elected, because ultimately it's about who do
:33:46. > :33:47.you trust with your future and your security.
:33:48. > :33:50.I think what I also take out of that focus group,
:33:51. > :33:53.was it was a group of floating voters, there was no huge appetite
:33:54. > :33:56.for the Lib Dems and there was no huge appetite for Ukip.
:33:57. > :33:59.So my messaged back to CCHQ would be stick to the plan.
:34:00. > :34:02.I thought the response to the manifesto was excellent.
:34:03. > :34:05.It's clear that people aren't particularly keen on Theresa May,
:34:06. > :34:09.There are some associations with her about strength and stability,
:34:10. > :34:13.which is exactly what the Tory party want of course, but they are not
:34:14. > :34:15.positive and nobody thinks that she has a vision
:34:16. > :34:21.So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn, what I'd say to the Labour Party is,
:34:22. > :34:23.they need to really emphasise the manifesto in
:34:24. > :34:30.Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform out of his skin and I think
:34:31. > :34:32.he has to reemphasise those characteristics which may be have
:34:33. > :34:35.come to the fore may be over the last 12 months,
:34:36. > :34:37.resilience, strength and the fact that he's come this far,
:34:38. > :34:40.why not take that final step and go into ten Downing Street?
:34:41. > :34:42.We're joined now by the American political consultant
:34:43. > :34:52.For the sake of this discussion, assume the polls at the moment are
:34:53. > :34:58.broadly right, is there any hope for Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters?
:34:59. > :35:02.Know, and this is a very serious collection with serious consequences
:35:03. > :35:06.to who wins. Nobody cares whether you can draw and what animal they
:35:07. > :35:10.represent, they want to know where they stand, and I felt that was
:35:11. > :35:16.frivolous. I come to Britain to watch elections because I learned
:35:17. > :35:19.from here. Your elections are more substantial, more serious, more
:35:20. > :35:23.policy and less about personality and that peace was only about
:35:24. > :35:28.personality. That's partly because Mrs May has decided to make this a
:35:29. > :35:42.presidential election. You can see on the posters it is all Team May. I
:35:43. > :35:47.agree with that, and in her language she says not everyone benefits from
:35:48. > :35:51.a Conservative government, I don't see how using anything Republicans
:35:52. > :35:55.have used in the past. In fact her campaign is more of a centrist
:35:56. > :36:00.Democrats but it is a smart strategy because it pushes Corbyn further to
:36:01. > :36:05.the left. Of course you said Hillary Clinton have won. On election night
:36:06. > :36:11.the polling was so bad in America, the exit polls that were done, the
:36:12. > :36:17.BBC told America she had won. No, I was anchoring the programme that
:36:18. > :36:25.night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC had the same numbers. Yes, but we
:36:26. > :36:29.did not say she had won, I can assure you of that. Because of
:36:30. > :36:36.people like you we thought she had but we didn't broadcast it. That was
:36:37. > :36:41.a smart approach. My point is other than teasing you, maybe there is
:36:42. > :36:46.hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you will have one of the lowest turnout
:36:47. > :36:50.in modern history and I think Labour will fall to one of the lowest
:36:51. > :36:55.percentages, not percentage of number of seats they have had, and
:36:56. > :36:59.this will be a matter of soul-searching for both political
:37:00. > :37:03.parties. What you do with a sizeable majority, and she has a
:37:04. > :37:09.responsibility to tell the British people exactly what happens as she
:37:10. > :37:14.moves forward. He and Labour will have to take a look at whether they
:37:15. > :37:19.still represent a significant slice of the British population. Do you
:37:20. > :37:22.see a realignment in British politics taking place? I see a
:37:23. > :37:26.crumbling of the left and yet there is still a significant percentage of
:37:27. > :37:36.the British population that once someone who is centre-left. And they
:37:37. > :37:39.like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies. I'm listening to Michael foot. I
:37:40. > :37:42.went to school here in the 1980s and I feel like I'm watching the Labour
:37:43. > :37:43.Party of 35 years ago, in a population that wants to focus on
:37:44. > :37:50.the future, not the past. Thank you. It's just gone 11.35,
:37:51. > :37:52.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:37:53. > :37:55.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20
:37:56. > :37:58.minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday
:37:59. > :38:13.Politics where you are. Hello and welcome to the London part
:38:14. > :38:21.of the show. Joining me for the duration -
:38:22. > :38:24.David Lammy, Labour candidate for Tottenham, and Mark Field
:38:25. > :38:26.Conservative candidate for the I want to start with you David
:38:27. > :38:32.and the Labour Manifesto. Let's talk about tax because the
:38:33. > :38:38.parts of the Labour manifesto we have seen so far is date they are
:38:39. > :38:44.planning to increase taxes on those who earn over ?30,000 per year, do
:38:45. > :38:49.you support that? Absolutely, average wages in London are around
:38:50. > :39:00.35,000, depending on where you are in the city. When I think of care
:39:01. > :39:04.workers, the vast majority need public services we can count on and
:39:05. > :39:09.that means for the small percentage at the top they should pay a bit
:39:10. > :39:14.more. But why not more than that? John McDonnell says it is a modest
:39:15. > :39:18.increase, but why not be more radical? We have also said there
:39:19. > :39:23.should be changes to corporation tax, which were slashed dramatically
:39:24. > :39:27.by George Osborne, and I think inheritance tax, which was also
:39:28. > :39:31.slashed by the Government, so it's not just the income tax threshold we
:39:32. > :39:36.are looking at, but quite properly, if you see the social care crisis we
:39:37. > :39:41.have got, if you are worried about A queues, we need at the top to
:39:42. > :39:46.pay more and that's why it's popular. 58% on pest and saying they
:39:47. > :39:51.were for it. And Labour has been clear, if you want to go for a low
:39:52. > :39:59.tax party you must vote for the Labour party, not the Conservative
:40:00. > :40:04.Party. Let's see what is in the manifesto. I don't think you should
:40:05. > :40:12.prejudge it. Londoners do not feel undertaxed. Which Londoners? Many
:40:13. > :40:18.Londoners. I expect the Londoners I represent are slightly different...
:40:19. > :40:22.In Ealing and Acton, Brentford and Chiswick, areas such as Westminster
:40:23. > :40:28.North, 80,000 is not a lot of money. It is a very expensive city in which
:40:29. > :40:34.to live, their cost of living is high, but anyone on ?55,000 per year
:40:35. > :40:38.will think Hang on, I'm two promotions away from being regarded
:40:39. > :40:45.as super rich. Do you think anyone who burns over ?80,000 are
:40:46. > :40:51.super-rich? I can afford to pay a bit more and I am over ?80,000 and
:40:52. > :40:56.so is Mark. The vast majority of Londoners are nowhere near that and
:40:57. > :41:01.that is on two incomes in their homes. We have been feeling the
:41:02. > :41:05.squeeze since 2008 when wages have not gone up in this city. Are you
:41:06. > :41:09.supporting the wrong people in this election if you are going to
:41:10. > :41:21.criticise a policy like this? If you look at it in the round across the
:41:22. > :41:23.country, 95% of people won't pay higher taxes under Labour, that's
:41:24. > :41:26.pretty good. That's the way they are putting it at the moment. People are
:41:27. > :41:30.aspiring to earn more. I think the biggest story I hear particularly
:41:31. > :41:34.about income tax is that many people who are burning in the higher rates
:41:35. > :41:42.of tax feel a massive disincentive to working harder. Are you killing
:41:43. > :41:47.aspirations? The choice is between taxation or austerity, and the
:41:48. > :41:50.Tories have gone for slashing and burning as always. Our local
:41:51. > :41:55.authority not even properly able to clean the streets and the rubbish
:41:56. > :42:03.bins. Look at the housing we haven't built. All that we absolutely need
:42:04. > :42:07.to see a tax threshold increase. Let's talk about the style of the
:42:08. > :42:12.campaign, Labour were criticised in parts of the press because of the
:42:13. > :42:17.last week but what about the Tory campaign, is it too presidential?
:42:18. > :42:21.Theresa May has made it all about her, not about the party. Not at
:42:22. > :42:26.all, it's about the team behind her. She has made it clear, and clearly
:42:27. > :42:35.there is a disparity, and we want to say to the public at large there is
:42:36. > :42:38.a choice. Only two people can be Prime Minister come the 9th of June.
:42:39. > :42:44.It cannot be Nicola Sturgeon or Tim Farron, and it's right to boil it
:42:45. > :42:47.down to a choice. It has been because I presidential campaign but
:42:48. > :42:53.Theresa May has strong views and she needs not just a mandate to get
:42:54. > :42:57.Brexit through but more importantly there has been too much short-term
:42:58. > :43:02.is in politics as a whole. The idea that we want to say we want a
:43:03. > :43:09.domestic agenda... Has it been extended beyond just Theresa May, in
:43:10. > :43:15.our experiences in trying to get Tory representatives to put people
:43:16. > :43:20.up... Yes, you are here but we have also experienced people who said
:43:21. > :43:24.they will come on, then it has been scuppered by Conservative Central
:43:25. > :43:27.office which plays into the idea of questions being briefed from
:43:28. > :43:33.journalists to Theresa May before she is asked questions. To be fair
:43:34. > :43:36.all elections are thermally controlled events. You are always
:43:37. > :43:41.looking to try to find divisions and it applies to the Labour Party as
:43:42. > :43:46.well as our party, rather than have a broad debate. As London MPs David
:43:47. > :43:50.and I probably agree on more things that might meet the eye but there
:43:51. > :43:55.are certain issues where we wouldn't be entirely at one with our party
:43:56. > :43:59.necessarily, on whole range of issues such as migration. We are
:44:00. > :44:05.living in a global city, we recognise the importance of
:44:06. > :44:08.financial services, and therefore if we come on the programme is the last
:44:09. > :44:09.thing we want to hear is, you are divided from what your party
:44:10. > :44:13.leadership are saying. In the first in our series of films
:44:14. > :44:16.looking at what the parties have to offer London,
:44:17. > :44:18.Andrew Cryan has been out and about with the Green
:44:19. > :44:26.party in North London. The fullest environmental parties
:44:27. > :44:28.blossomed in the 1970s. Are we really going to have
:44:29. > :44:31.twice as many cars? But today they've evolved
:44:32. > :44:38.into something different, and the Green Party is fighting this
:44:39. > :44:44.election on a whole range of policies, many of which bear
:44:45. > :44:46.a striking similarity When I heard their manifesto
:44:47. > :44:53.being leaked and discussed on Radio 4 yesterday morning, I thought
:44:54. > :44:56.it was our manifesto that had been leaked for a moment,
:44:57. > :44:58.and then I realised some of the policies weren't quite
:44:59. > :45:00.as radical as ours. The Green Party manifesto
:45:01. > :45:04.is due out in a few days, but the policies they have released,
:45:05. > :45:07.well many are exactly the same as Labour's, including votes for 16
:45:08. > :45:10.year olds and a promise to end both university tuition fees
:45:11. > :45:13.and NHS privatisation. Both parties say they want to scrap
:45:14. > :45:17.the Government's immigration target, introduce rent controls,
:45:18. > :45:19.and build a very similar number Well, the Greens, I think,
:45:20. > :45:32.have the real challenge, electorally, that the Labour Party
:45:33. > :45:34.in its current and with its current leadership
:45:35. > :45:37.is probably quite attractive to many Green voters,
:45:38. > :45:40.so those voters who in ex-Labour voters who had gone
:45:41. > :45:43.to the Greens will now But there is one big policy
:45:44. > :45:47.the Greens are hoping They want a second
:45:48. > :45:51.referendum on EU membership. People should vote Green for a party
:45:52. > :46:00.that will give people a say on the terms of any EU exit deal
:46:01. > :46:03.that is negotiated by whoever is Prime Minister after
:46:04. > :46:05.the general election. But the reality of this election
:46:06. > :46:16.is that the Green Party's number one priority is to protect their soul
:46:17. > :46:18.MP, Caroline Lucas, in Brighton Pavilion,
:46:19. > :46:21.and maybe if they are lucky pick up At the weekends, many Green
:46:22. > :46:25.activists from London are not campaigning in the capital
:46:26. > :46:27.but jumping on a train On the Green Party website,
:46:28. > :46:31.none of the seats they are giving priority to are in London,
:46:32. > :46:34.and in fact, in some of the key races in the capital,
:46:35. > :46:36.the Greens aren't putting Now, this is one of
:46:37. > :46:39.the tightest constituencies in all of the country,
:46:40. > :46:41.Ealing Central and Acton. The Labour Party won it last
:46:42. > :46:44.time by just 274 votes. Now, on the 8th of June,
:46:45. > :46:47.the Green Party have decided not to stand a candidate,
:46:48. > :46:49.saying people should lend their votes to Labour
:46:50. > :46:52.and keep the Tories out. Stephen Clarke has helped
:46:53. > :46:54.negotiate deals between those There are now five seats in London
:46:55. > :46:58.where the Greens have I think the Green Party have clearly
:46:59. > :47:06.operated more in the spirit of the alliance than the other
:47:07. > :47:10.parties and I think this has got They passed a resolution
:47:11. > :47:16.at their recent conference which said it was for local parties
:47:17. > :47:19.to decide whether, in the interests of pushing the Green agenda
:47:20. > :47:21.and pushing electoral change, if they chose to stand
:47:22. > :47:32.aside they could. Traditionally the Greens have tended
:47:33. > :47:34.to rely on younger voters, but where they are standing
:47:35. > :47:36.candidates in London, they will be fighting hard for votes
:47:37. > :47:40.from people of all ages. The question is whether
:47:41. > :47:42.in their hearts they are I am joined by Sian Berry
:47:43. > :48:18.from the London Assembly, The Tories have called the
:48:19. > :48:24.selection, voters out there know they shouldn't do just what the
:48:25. > :48:29.Tories say. Lots of people are wondering how we can prevent this. 1
:48:30. > :48:33.million voted in the last election for the Green party but we still
:48:34. > :48:39.only came out with one MP. The system is broken and we have to be
:48:40. > :48:42.working with voters to change the system so millions of people across
:48:43. > :48:46.the country in marginals and in areas where the Greens are not
:48:47. > :48:53.strong, where it is Labour against Tory save seeds, we have to do
:48:54. > :48:56.something about that. That is always the battle cry from you and the
:48:57. > :49:00.Liberal Democrats in terms of the voting system, but even so, the
:49:01. > :49:05.figures are going in the wrong direction for you, where as you were
:49:06. > :49:08.building last time round? The thing we have done in this election is
:49:09. > :49:14.putting people in the direction of stopping the Tories getting a huge
:49:15. > :49:19.majority. That has to be reflected in maybe a dip in the National
:49:20. > :49:26.polls. But in areas like Islington North where Caroline is campaigning,
:49:27. > :49:32.people want a second referendum on Brexit... In other areas, it is not
:49:33. > :49:37.unique. How big an issue is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party because
:49:38. > :49:42.that manifesto, as your colleagues, it could have been the Green party
:49:43. > :49:46.manifesto. If you are going to go for a left of centre Progressive
:49:47. > :49:55.Alliance, you will vote for the Labour Party. The only party you can
:49:56. > :50:01.count on who will look after the environments, and Labour has a mixed
:50:02. > :50:05.up policy on Brexit. Talking about cutting freedom of movement and not
:50:06. > :50:08.being in the single market is what the Greens in Parliament will fight
:50:09. > :50:15.for. We have promised everyone in the country a final say on the deal
:50:16. > :50:21.that will come from the EU. Almost nobody under the age of 21 by the
:50:22. > :50:28.time we exit the EU, will have had a say on that. That is a distinctive
:50:29. > :50:32.offer, but you are hailing the Alliance as something that has been
:50:33. > :50:37.adopted broadly. They have not taken up your cry on this issue, whether
:50:38. > :50:42.it would have worked or not, we will never know. You are not contesting
:50:43. > :50:46.five London seats. It is not being reciprocated in any formal way, why
:50:47. > :50:51.bother gives the Liberal Democrats and Labour the free run? There were
:50:52. > :51:00.more than six seats across London where this thing was considered. It
:51:01. > :51:03.is a shame Labour didn't join in at a national level and stand aside in
:51:04. > :51:06.the Isle of Wight. But in other places where we are doing it, these
:51:07. > :51:10.are tiny majorities, where it does make sense for the progressive vote
:51:11. > :51:14.to come behind the Labour candidate and I am proud of the Greens who
:51:15. > :51:21.have done that. Is it a missed opportunity, white isn't Labour
:51:22. > :51:26.working with the Greens because you could've maximised your seats? I am
:51:27. > :51:29.worried about any potential for a lack of opposition for a
:51:30. > :51:35.Conservative government so I am more open to working with the Greens than
:51:36. > :51:39.others in my party. I have worked well with Caroline Lucas in our
:51:40. > :51:44.opposition to Brexit, we share an all-party group. Having said that, I
:51:45. > :51:50.am pleased to see the Greens stand down in places like Ealing, where I
:51:51. > :51:57.do think you have strong MPs, you want that support. Therefore, there
:51:58. > :52:02.is a continued discussion on where we can work together. Have you
:52:03. > :52:08.talked to the Greens locally? Yes, we have talked to the Greens in the
:52:09. > :52:18.London Borough of Haringey. But you wouldn't be in favour of that? The
:52:19. > :52:23.election was called very quickly. This is a special election, enormous
:52:24. > :52:26.things at stake. Apart from your offer on Brexit, what is it you
:52:27. > :52:37.don't like about the Labour manifesto? There is definitely a
:52:38. > :52:41.role for the Greens on the London assembly, challenging the mayor on
:52:42. > :52:48.some of his broken promises on estates and renting. On tax, rail
:52:49. > :52:57.nationalisation, when it comes to the salaries for the public sector,
:52:58. > :53:00.anything you disagree with? We are in our 2015 manifesto and we are
:53:01. > :53:05.flattered to see them taken up by the Labour Party. We are a distinct
:53:06. > :53:10.party and we have a distinct offer in the selection, which is the final
:53:11. > :53:16.combination on Brexit, and you won't find another party doing that. In
:53:17. > :53:22.terms of the environment, could we say the Conservative Party is
:53:23. > :53:27.environment light? I would not say it is light. Where the Green party
:53:28. > :53:31.had difficulty making breakthrough, which is tribute to their
:53:32. > :53:37.involvement in politics over the years, both the Conservative Party
:53:38. > :53:50.and the Labour Party have taken on certain policies. Which one?
:53:51. > :53:54.Immolation, one of the regrets, the whole business in the High Court
:53:55. > :53:58.before the election was called, that will be a priority if we are
:53:59. > :54:05.re-elected, we will get something on clean air. In general terms, do you
:54:06. > :54:12.think the Conservative Party could do more and has gone backwards? No,
:54:13. > :54:16.there is a huge amount on renewables, solar and wind energy.
:54:17. > :54:21.In the last ten years there has been a change in the tax treatment in
:54:22. > :54:27.relation to this. In many ways, a tribute to the impact the Green
:54:28. > :54:31.party has had as a movement. I have spent the last five years fighting
:54:32. > :54:35.the Conservative's road-building plans. We don't have a green
:54:36. > :54:39.government. Everything they do is tiny and token. We need the Greens
:54:40. > :54:42.in Parliament arguing for comprehensive things like a
:54:43. > :54:45.sustainable transport policy and clean air act. Let's move on to that
:54:46. > :54:49.issue. Let's move on to an issue
:54:50. > :54:52.of particular interest to the Green party and one which campaigners say
:54:53. > :54:55.should be a major concern for all political parties -
:54:56. > :54:57.air quality in the capital. Our environment correspondent
:54:58. > :54:59.Tom Edwards reports on what the parties are proposing
:55:00. > :55:01.to tackle the problem, which affects many living in London
:55:02. > :55:03.and might well influence A community in Kennington
:55:04. > :55:07.demanding action on bad air. My name is Aoife, I am
:55:08. > :55:09.seven years old... They want all parties
:55:10. > :55:13.to sign their Clean Air pledge. I want to try and clean up
:55:14. > :55:16.the pollution in the air so when I get older I won't have
:55:17. > :55:19.lung disease or problems I feel that the bad air I will be
:55:20. > :55:24.breathing in will make me ill. 45,000 vehicles a day use this
:55:25. > :55:27.road, poor air quality Will it affect how you
:55:28. > :55:32.vote in the election? There needs to be
:55:33. > :55:38.a Clean Air agenda. We can't continue like
:55:39. > :55:41.this, this is a killer. We are pretending it's not
:55:42. > :55:43.there because you can't see it, ARCHIVE: If it weren't
:55:44. > :55:47.for the smoke-laden fog outside, The last big political
:55:48. > :55:53.intervention on air quality ARCHIVE: Here is the main source
:55:54. > :56:00.of atmospheric pollution. The Clean Air Act banned coal
:56:01. > :56:02.after the great smog, There are calls for new legislation
:56:03. > :56:11.to tackle fumes from traffic. About 50% of nitrogen dioxide
:56:12. > :56:16.is due to road traffic. The mayor says he can deal
:56:17. > :56:19.with about half of that with his ultralow emission zone
:56:20. > :56:22.where the polluter pays, but he'll need help from whoever
:56:23. > :56:25.is elected here to deal Children here at the Royal Brompton
:56:26. > :56:33.see the impact of London's high levels of pollution,
:56:34. > :56:36.especially nitrogen dioxide. Experts say it slows lung growth
:56:37. > :56:40.and poor air is shortening the lives These doctors want
:56:41. > :56:47.action and this week, took their message to Downing
:56:48. > :56:50.Street. It is about changing the fleet,
:56:51. > :56:53.removing the vehicle fleet, removing the vehicles that are most
:56:54. > :56:58.polluting, particularly the older diesel vehicles,
:56:59. > :57:01.but making sure the newer vehicles As soon as I asked Sophie Walker,
:57:02. > :57:05.who is my party leader, In Kennington, the Women's
:57:06. > :57:09.Equality Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats and Labour
:57:10. > :57:14.all pledge to clean up pollution. We really do want to see a diesel
:57:15. > :57:17.scrappage scheme because we think getting diesel cars off our roads
:57:18. > :57:20.is the most important thing we can do to improve the air quality,
:57:21. > :57:23.particularly in London, particularly in places
:57:24. > :57:25.like Kennington. What we will be setting
:57:26. > :57:28.out in our manifesto are a national framework,
:57:29. > :57:31.a national framework which doesn't just give local
:57:32. > :57:34.authorities the responsibility, but actually make sure they are then
:57:35. > :57:37.backed up with the competence We have to have a Clean Air Act
:57:38. > :57:46.that is fit for the 21st century, that can deal with these poisonous,
:57:47. > :57:48.tiny, tiny little particles that get deep into our lungs
:57:49. > :57:53.and into our bloodstreams. The Conservatives didn't attend,
:57:54. > :57:56.they would charge diesel drivers The real public health
:57:57. > :58:03.issues are in areas, our main cities where there
:58:04. > :58:08.are particular problems. That's where we should be
:58:09. > :58:12.focusing our efforts. We don't want to see a national
:58:13. > :58:17.programme of penalising motorists. Clean air campaigners say London
:58:18. > :58:27.is now in the grip of a health emergency and say all parties should
:58:28. > :58:40.make tackling it a priority. David Lambie, how would you get
:58:41. > :58:46.diesel cars off the road. We have got to move to a scrappage scheme,
:58:47. > :58:49.move away from diesel. The evidence has moved on. We understand a
:58:50. > :58:55.particular problem with pollutants and particles in the lungs. Children
:58:56. > :58:59.are dying in this city and I suspect in other major cities across the
:59:00. > :59:04.country. That is why it is a national scheme. In a sense, the
:59:05. > :59:08.running the mayor has done in London with the High Commission zones and
:59:09. > :59:14.his toxicity charge have to become national and that is why we need a
:59:15. > :59:17.new clean air act. As we got rid of smog in the past, we need to deal
:59:18. > :59:21.with this and it needs a national framework. Do you agree that,
:59:22. > :59:29.charging diesel drivers as a last resort, will not get diesel cars off
:59:30. > :59:35.the road. Simon Burkett, my friend... Environmental science is
:59:36. > :59:43.in a state of flux, because 15 years ago the government at the time was
:59:44. > :59:46.saying go down the diesel route. We need a diesel scrappage scheme but
:59:47. > :59:51.we need to recognise those who were in scent of eyes to go down the
:59:52. > :59:54.diesel route and should be getting some compensation. You are
:59:55. > :59:57.penalising drivers, and many of them would have bought diesel cars
:59:58. > :00:05.thinking it was the right thing to do?
:00:06. > :00:15.Yes, and the car-makers should pay. They should be the ones paying, we
:00:16. > :00:20.shouldn't give them a bonus for a scrappage scheme. Diesel damaging
:00:21. > :00:28.people's lungs was well established at the time. What is the choice,
:00:29. > :00:32.children dying or looking at the car manufacturers, many who spun against
:00:33. > :00:35.the evidence at the time, and saying, yes, actually, if we are
:00:36. > :00:40.putting a framework together they have to take more of a burden than
:00:41. > :00:46.the taxpayer so we can move forward and create an environment we can all
:00:47. > :00:52.live in. I'm saying let back car manufacturers, let's not move away
:00:53. > :00:58.from diesel -- that is what the Tories are saying. It is a very
:00:59. > :01:05.emotive subject and we have run out of time.
:01:06. > :01:10.On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary
:01:11. > :01:12.seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's
:01:13. > :01:19.We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out
:01:20. > :01:22.what they might tell us about the make-up of the House
:01:23. > :01:27.Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and
:01:28. > :01:32.analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that
:01:33. > :01:34.in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave
:01:35. > :01:42.during last year's referendum campaign
:01:43. > :01:44.and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public
:01:45. > :01:50.In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs
:01:51. > :01:53.were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour
:01:54. > :01:59.Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats
:02:00. > :02:01.17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.
:02:02. > :02:06.20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest
:02:07. > :02:10.or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and
:02:11. > :02:16.If they won those, the Labour benches would be
:02:17. > :02:19.marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.
:02:20. > :02:21.What do the figures tell us about where the other
:02:22. > :02:25.Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens
:02:26. > :02:27.in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629
:02:28. > :02:29.candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.
:02:30. > :02:33.The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.
:02:34. > :02:39.They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,
:02:40. > :02:42.throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories
:02:43. > :02:46.in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.
:02:47. > :02:50.The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates
:02:51. > :03:00.than at the last election, standing down to help
:03:01. > :03:06.other progressive candidates in some places.
:03:07. > :03:19.The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this
:03:20. > :03:26.their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip
:03:27. > :03:29.candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in
:03:30. > :03:39.the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank
:03:40. > :03:44.Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this
:03:45. > :03:46.election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if
:03:47. > :03:51.you take the things together that could explain why the polls are
:03:52. > :03:56.where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start
:03:57. > :04:01.of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we
:04:02. > :04:08.started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the
:04:09. > :04:12.size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,
:04:13. > :04:19.but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their
:04:20. > :04:23.only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because
:04:24. > :04:31.they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the
:04:32. > :04:33.impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible
:04:34. > :04:42.thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,
:04:43. > :04:48.consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,
:04:49. > :04:53.it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to
:04:54. > :04:58.fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour
:04:59. > :05:04.Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same
:05:05. > :05:07.votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on
:05:08. > :05:13.the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It
:05:14. > :05:19.happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own
:05:20. > :05:22.fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the
:05:23. > :05:26.dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of
:05:27. > :05:32.the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a
:05:33. > :05:37.way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on
:05:38. > :05:41.the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the
:05:42. > :05:45.right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to
:05:46. > :05:52.the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be
:05:53. > :05:56.outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she
:05:57. > :05:59.is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.
:06:00. > :06:02.What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes
:06:03. > :06:08.ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not
:06:09. > :06:11.declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have
:06:12. > :06:16.thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,
:06:17. > :06:20.that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's
:06:21. > :06:26.about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of
:06:27. > :06:31.Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even
:06:32. > :06:37.have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.
:06:38. > :06:41.I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put
:06:42. > :06:47.it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because
:06:48. > :06:53.of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is
:06:54. > :06:57.coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet
:06:58. > :07:02.sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it
:07:03. > :07:09.will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you
:07:10. > :07:13.will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never
:07:14. > :07:23.have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.
:07:24. > :07:28.When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I
:07:29. > :07:33.would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my
:07:34. > :07:37.excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most
:07:38. > :07:45.important day for the British government for the next five years.
:07:46. > :07:50.That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even
:07:51. > :07:58.being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and
:07:59. > :08:02.it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it
:08:03. > :08:07.safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might
:08:08. > :08:12.be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to
:08:13. > :08:16.do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a
:08:17. > :08:20.year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out
:08:21. > :08:23.what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next
:08:24. > :08:27.parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next
:08:28. > :08:31.important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate
:08:32. > :08:43.for that if the polls are right but she
:08:44. > :08:47.does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a
:08:48. > :08:49.country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different
:08:50. > :08:52.ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.
:08:53. > :08:55.You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on
:08:56. > :08:59.implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly
:09:00. > :09:02.pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it
:09:03. > :09:06.will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the
:09:07. > :09:11.line which interests me about its time to look at the good that
:09:12. > :09:17.government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK
:09:18. > :09:21.politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure
:09:22. > :09:25.about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne
:09:26. > :09:29.government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about
:09:30. > :09:33.the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently
:09:34. > :09:38.doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether
:09:39. > :09:43.it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory
:09:44. > :09:51.message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted
:09:52. > :09:55.Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so
:09:56. > :10:00.on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with
:10:01. > :10:05.it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does
:10:06. > :10:10.deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of
:10:11. > :10:18.this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to
:10:19. > :10:21.someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May
:10:22. > :10:25.never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office
:10:26. > :10:33.briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.
:10:34. > :10:40.So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick
:10:41. > :10:46.Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be
:10:47. > :10:52.interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be
:10:53. > :11:01.talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the
:11:02. > :11:06.suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much
:11:07. > :11:12.Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington
:11:13. > :11:16.Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class
:11:17. > :11:21.voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government
:11:22. > :11:25.out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help
:11:26. > :11:37.their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of
:11:38. > :11:40.what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it
:11:41. > :11:49.suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the
:11:50. > :11:53.boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing
:11:54. > :11:59.happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015
:12:00. > :12:02.manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably
:12:03. > :12:07.had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference
:12:08. > :12:12.speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If
:12:13. > :12:16.she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will
:12:17. > :12:20.have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will
:12:21. > :12:26.be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming
:12:27. > :12:29.issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant
:12:30. > :12:34.development in terms of an argument around the role of government,
:12:35. > :12:38.much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As
:12:39. > :12:42.much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear
:12:43. > :12:51.strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,
:12:52. > :12:56.and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are
:12:57. > :13:00.all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks
:13:01. > :13:02.to our panel. The Daily Politics will be
:13:03. > :13:05.back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time
:13:06. > :13:09.on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:10. > :13:43.it's the Sunday Politics. When it came to my TV habits,
:13:44. > :13:47.I'd watch anything... But now I can sign in online
:13:48. > :13:51.and get more of what I love. I'm kept up to date
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