:01:42. > :01:46.In the North East, at Durham prison as a category B prison home to
:01:46. > :01:56.serious offenders. Should a private company be allowed to run it for
:01:56. > :01:56.
:01:56. > :30:45.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1729 seconds
:30:46. > :30:50.A warm welcome to your local party official. Coming up - now cheaper
:30:50. > :30:55.to buy a council house backs it extra discounts from the government.
:30:55. > :31:05.Does that mean few affordable homes for those who need in the most?
:31:05. > :31:08.
:31:09. > :31:11.Talking about that are my guests, Stockton MP James Wharton. Durham
:31:11. > :31:15.is a category B prison that it contains the most dangerous
:31:15. > :31:19.offenders. It is one of nine prisons that the Government is
:31:19. > :31:23.considering handing over to a private company to run. Ministers
:31:23. > :31:28.say there is more to it than saving money because they say it could
:31:28. > :31:34.also help cut reoffending rates. Prison officers say making money
:31:34. > :31:39.out of prisoners is plain wrong. Durham prison. One of the oldest in
:31:39. > :31:45.Britain. Inside, just over 1000 prisoners. This places be on the
:31:45. > :31:50.news this week as it has been revealed one in eight prisoners
:31:50. > :31:55.here develop a drug habit after being locked up here. This is of
:31:55. > :31:57.concern particularly because the prison is facing competition. The
:31:57. > :32:02.competition comes from private companies who want to run the
:32:02. > :32:08.prison. It is a form of privatisation that the Government
:32:08. > :32:14.calls market testing. The unions say this is a bad idea. We do not
:32:14. > :32:20.think there is a need for this competition policy. We believe that
:32:20. > :32:27.a public sector Prison Service as an effective and cost effective. We
:32:27. > :32:31.do not believe it is morally correct to put profit in private
:32:31. > :32:36.shareholders from the misery of others. A by the end of the year,
:32:36. > :32:43.this prison could be run by a private firm. A good deal for
:32:43. > :32:47.taxpayers are a dangerous risk? You have heard what the Prison
:32:47. > :32:52.Officers' Association have said. Basically, it is distasteful to
:32:52. > :32:55.make money out of prisons? understand the concern. The
:32:55. > :33:02.important thing is to ensure that standards are maintained and things
:33:02. > :33:06.are done properly. At the moment, it cost �45,000 to run at a single
:33:06. > :33:10.prison cell. The last government started the programme at looking at
:33:10. > :33:15.whether the private sector could contribute to running a presence
:33:15. > :33:20.and an effective and efficient way. Where appropriate, it should be
:33:20. > :33:22.rolled out. That has not been for a very prison. We will look at
:33:22. > :33:29.individual circumstances and how prisons are being run today before
:33:29. > :33:34.making that decision. This whole process started under the last
:33:34. > :33:39.government. Are you against it now? I was against it then and against
:33:39. > :33:43.it now. I did not hear you shouting about it are threatening to resign.
:33:43. > :33:53.You're not listening because I have been speaking up against the
:33:53. > :33:56.privatisation of prisons for a long time. The inspectors' report this
:33:56. > :34:01.week said that the prison was making enormous progress and had
:34:01. > :34:05.very good management. Unfortunately, the media are being distracted at
:34:05. > :34:10.the moment by this privatisation progress. That is not good for the
:34:10. > :34:15.running of our prisons and they do an effective job. What I would like
:34:15. > :34:22.to do support the prison staff. They do an incredibly difficult job
:34:22. > :34:26.and have very serious issues to deal with. I accept there was some
:34:26. > :34:32.praise and that report but it found the prison was not sufficiently
:34:32. > :34:36.safe and one in five inmates tested positive for drugs. There were lots
:34:36. > :34:40.of positive points in that report and it pointed to a particular
:34:40. > :34:45.issue and drug use. That is being tackled by the management of the
:34:45. > :34:52.prison who, since the report was written, have really tackled the
:34:52. > :34:55.drugs issue and reduced drug usage by about 1 1/2. They're making
:34:55. > :35:00.progress and need to be supported and be do not want to see the
:35:00. > :35:08.prison privatised. This was never a lover the Democrat policy but I can
:35:08. > :35:12.remember. -- Liberal Democrat policy. Our policy has always been
:35:12. > :35:18.that we are in favour of public or private sector running prisons as
:35:18. > :35:27.long as they do it efficiently and well. So what is already to make
:35:27. > :35:31.profit out of prisons? -- it is all right. If they can run it more
:35:31. > :35:36.efficiently through a private contractor then that is OK, that
:35:37. > :35:42.his spine. What I am pleased about with this is that it has been to
:35:42. > :35:46.put out to the public sector is well to run it. It is in stark
:35:46. > :35:50.contrast to something like academies where local academies --
:35:50. > :35:55.local authorities are not like to put forward a community school and
:35:55. > :35:59.they have to look at the Academy's first. Here, you have a level
:35:59. > :36:04.playing field where public and private and partnerships can come
:36:04. > :36:10.together and offer to do it. Is it a level playing field? As I
:36:10. > :36:17.understand it, 20% has been added to the costs of the in house picked
:36:17. > :36:22.by the existing public sector management. It is difficult as to
:36:22. > :36:26.how you'd apply criteria to get a level playing field. Their costs
:36:26. > :36:29.involved behind the scenes that are centrally and kerb at the
:36:29. > :36:36.Department of Justice that contribute towards, or take away
:36:36. > :36:41.from the costs of up public sector organisation has a private sector
:36:41. > :36:44.has to provide. We're not saying all prisons should be privatised
:36:44. > :36:52.but we should look at whether there is an effective and more efficient
:36:52. > :36:56.way of doing this. The report that he met this week implied that at a
:36:56. > :37:00.time when they're trying to tackle these problems, they have to
:37:00. > :37:04.produce a bed for the prison they already run. We have a problem with
:37:04. > :37:09.the image of prison provision in this country at the moment. There
:37:09. > :37:14.are only about 2000 spare spaces in our prisons, many of which are
:37:14. > :37:18.already overcrowded and we have to do something about that. We cannot
:37:18. > :37:22.find savings because there is no money left. We are massively of a
:37:22. > :37:27.spending as a country. If we cannot find a more effective way of
:37:27. > :37:31.running a prisons, we will run into bigger problems in the future.
:37:31. > :37:35.is about value for money for the taxpayer. That cannot be a bad
:37:35. > :37:40.thing? We want prisons to run effectively but they also have to
:37:40. > :37:44.do a good job and rehabilitate the people who are there. Some of the
:37:44. > :37:47.praise that was given to the prison management this week was about how
:37:47. > :37:54.the strength and work opportunities and training opportunities within
:37:54. > :37:59.the prison. Some of those schemes are now being put at risk by cuts
:37:59. > :38:03.and by the privatisation proposals. It is not only about efficiency and
:38:03. > :38:08.the running of the prison but ensuring that the people who are
:38:08. > :38:12.there do not go out and continue to commit crimes. That is not included
:38:12. > :38:22.atoll in the tender documents. this be a waste of money if it ends
:38:22. > :38:26.
:38:26. > :38:32.up being in in his bed? But -- in house bid. The tendering process is
:38:32. > :38:38.useful because there is currently a lot of dissatisfaction. It is
:38:38. > :38:43.about... Who will have to cut you off there.
:38:43. > :38:48.From this month, it is cheaper to buy a council house should you what
:38:48. > :38:52.it. Ministers are offering bigger discounts and say it is about
:38:52. > :38:56.resurrecting the spirit of ownership from thatcher's time in
:38:56. > :39:04.office. Some say it is not welcome news and that money gained from
:39:04. > :39:10.selling homes will not be enough to build more affordable homes.
:39:10. > :39:18.1987 - Madonna was in the charts, Mrs thatcher won a third term and
:39:18. > :39:24.this family bought their council house. The benefits have been that
:39:24. > :39:30.I have something to leave the children. It was about security. It
:39:30. > :39:34.was about getting on the property ladder. The fact that I love these
:39:34. > :39:38.decide, I loved it here, and they wanted to buy a house here. After
:39:38. > :39:42.the heyday of the policy, the number exercising their right to
:39:42. > :39:46.buy has fallen. The coalition government is giving up another
:39:46. > :39:52.lease of life. From now on, tenants purchasing council houses get a
:39:52. > :39:58.much bigger discount. The maximum saving in the North East has risen
:39:58. > :40:01.from �22,000 to 75 -- �75,000 below the market value.
:40:01. > :40:06.The effect of three decades of right-to-buy can be seen clearly in
:40:06. > :40:13.a street like this one. It used to be all council-owned but it is now
:40:13. > :40:17.three-quarters private. Supporters of the transition say it has meant
:40:17. > :40:21.greater pride and vitality. Critics have a right to buy say that 30
:40:21. > :40:26.years on, it has led to a shortage of affordable rental homes for
:40:26. > :40:30.those who need them most. Ministers say it would different this time.
:40:30. > :40:34.For a very council house sold, they promise an affordable home will be
:40:34. > :40:40.built. One of these council says it will not get enough money from each
:40:40. > :40:44.sale to fund a replacement. There is a shortfall of around �13,000
:40:44. > :40:49.because tenants get a very large discount now and we also have to
:40:49. > :40:56.hand back substantial amounts to the government. We have estimated
:40:56. > :41:00.that for every 25 houses we sell, we will only be able to provide 10.
:41:00. > :41:05.This Darlington estate is already a mix of council and private. What
:41:05. > :41:10.the residents here think? I think it is a good idea because if the
:41:10. > :41:15.price reduction comes down a lot lower, it will help young people to
:41:15. > :41:18.get onto the property ladder. they try selling them off, there
:41:18. > :41:24.will not be enough for people like me and my husband to a disabled to
:41:24. > :41:30.Nevin. As well as concern about the housing shortage, their fears about
:41:30. > :41:33.the financial risk of buying a house in -- council house and a
:41:33. > :41:37.volatile market. There are fears that those who have bought their
:41:37. > :41:40.houses through right-to-buy at higher risk of mortgage arrears and
:41:40. > :41:44.losing their properties. Because of the higher rates of unemployment
:41:44. > :41:48.here, that is something that worries us for the future. In a
:41:49. > :41:55.previous see a, were right to buy East up-to-date aspirational chord
:41:55. > :42:00.with the electorate. It is far from clear that this remixed policy will
:42:00. > :42:03.be a hit with voters. James Wharton, this might be great
:42:03. > :42:07.for those who get a big discount but the danger is these people will
:42:07. > :42:16.be pulling up a ladder behind them at at least places like Darlington
:42:16. > :42:21.short of affordable homes. somebody buys their home, that is
:42:21. > :42:25.one less person who needs a council house, so there is less demand.
:42:25. > :42:29.Money released by that has been be invested by the Government through
:42:29. > :42:33.a centralised scheme to allow a one-for-one replacement nationally
:42:33. > :42:38.so that for every house that is sold, another is built. Where does
:42:38. > :42:44.that leave a place like Darlington who do not see all this money come
:42:44. > :42:50.back? For every 25 houses sold, they have 25 fewer council tenants
:42:50. > :42:54.who need those homes. government has made a big play of
:42:54. > :42:59.needing to build new homes. If it reduces the stock, this cannot be a
:42:59. > :43:03.success came at you will have 25 people who wear in council homes
:43:03. > :43:11.who do not need them. You use some of the money to build new
:43:11. > :43:15.affordable properties for people to move into. You will have more stock,
:43:15. > :43:21.more people living in their own homes. It is a good scheme and it
:43:21. > :43:26.is right to be invigorated in this way. The right to buy it made a
:43:26. > :43:32.huge difference to people's lives. Your Government made it difficult
:43:32. > :43:40.for people to get the same benefit? We support aspiration and the right
:43:40. > :43:44.to buy. We were shifting resources because we inherited an �18 billion
:43:44. > :43:52.black gold. We had to ensure that properties were brought up to a
:43:52. > :43:58.basic standard. Only 25% of the receipts of sales are going to stay
:43:58. > :44:02.with the local area. When the replacement house is built if it is
:44:02. > :44:08.ever built, that will be at 80% of market rent so it will not be like-
:44:08. > :44:15.for-like. No local authority will get any money until an additional
:44:16. > :44:21.13,000 houses had been put on to the right to buy. Our criticism is
:44:21. > :44:24.about like-for-like replacement. that not commonsense to it, rather
:44:24. > :44:30.than just handing the money straight back to the council, take
:44:30. > :44:36.a more strategic view. They may not be needed in Darlington but instead
:44:36. > :44:42.in Durham, for instance? The point is that this is not replacement of
:44:42. > :44:46.like-for-like. There as an acute shortage of affordable housing
:44:46. > :44:50.right across the country. Up if we're going to lose yet more houses
:44:50. > :44:55.from the affordable rented sector, then we need more affordable houses
:44:55. > :45:01.to be built in that area. This is just not going to happen under the
:45:01. > :45:06.scheme. Has the Government got it right here? In rural areas, it may
:45:06. > :45:15.be more of a problem? There is something to be aware of here which
:45:15. > :45:20.is that in this, there is an additional commitment to build
:45:20. > :45:25.130,000 extra houses in this Parliament. That is in addition to
:45:25. > :45:28.the one for one. Weaver very police have Liberal Democrats to get this
:45:29. > :45:37.one for one replacement for each household because that was not
:45:37. > :45:41.there before. As ever, the devil is in the detail and we have to be
:45:41. > :45:47.aware of that. The other issue we would like to have seen would have
:45:47. > :45:51.been to have a more local approach to it. The �75,000 discount in the
:45:51. > :45:57.media like the North is far too much. Because the houses are worth
:45:57. > :46:02.a lot less? Yes, so we would like to have seen that be locally
:46:02. > :46:07.determined and be more strategic. You're right about rural areas like
:46:07. > :46:12.the one I live and where we are desperate for affordable homes.
:46:12. > :46:16.everyone get �75,000. That is the maximum some people can get and it
:46:16. > :46:22.depends how many years she had been in the house, there is a formula.
:46:22. > :46:27.Thank you all very much. No shortage of other news this week
:46:27. > :46:32.with a special debate in Parliament about the North East economy and
:46:33. > :46:42.the local election visit to Cumbria by the Prime Minister. He that his
:46:42. > :46:47.and 60 seconds. The first steel has been produced
:46:47. > :46:52.at the reopened blast furnace on Teesside. It was lit again last
:46:52. > :46:55.weekend after being mothballed. David Cameron has promised to make
:46:55. > :47:00.apprenticeships attractive alternative to university. He was
:47:00. > :47:04.speaking during a visit to Carlisle. The Greens have parallel in their
:47:04. > :47:14.sights as well. We are looking to challenge the cuts agenda but we
:47:14. > :47:14.
:47:14. > :47:18.also be looking to make sure that money stays within local community.
:47:18. > :47:28.I Gateshead MP accused ministers of presiding of a slash-and-burn
:47:28. > :47:29.
:47:30. > :47:34.agenda for the North. The much-heralded regional growth
:47:34. > :47:41.fund has funnelled money directly into companies in the north.
:47:41. > :47:47.MPs have welcomed a decision to display the Lindisfarne Gospels
:47:47. > :47:53.next summer. A man and a rush there.
:47:53. > :47:59.Welcome news about the Cuthbert Bible but does this helped the
:47:59. > :48:03.campaign to get the Gospels displayed permanently in Durham?
:48:03. > :48:08.think it does. We are looking forward to next year and we think
:48:08. > :48:11.it will be fantastic for Durham and the North East to have a
:48:11. > :48:15.Lindisfarne Gospel and the Cuthbert gospel displayed alongside it. We
:48:15. > :48:20.think it will be a huge attraction for the North East and bring lots
:48:20. > :48:26.of people into the area. We will have to use that and use the
:48:26. > :48:31.display to really step up a campaign for a permanent relocation.
:48:31. > :48:37.James Wharton, a good news for Teesside? What you think it means
:48:37. > :48:42.for the state of the economy that work is ongoing for their? No one
:48:42. > :48:46.is denying the economy is still on a tough situation. With the
:48:47. > :48:52.reopening of this blast furnace and Teesside, that is great news.
:48:52. > :48:56.Hitachi are opening and good news from Nissan. A lot of good news in
:48:56. > :48:59.the North East economy which suggests we are coming into the
:48:59. > :49:07.difficult period which means jobs and investment in the future, which
:49:07. > :49:13.we need. There are important developments such as the Durham
:49:13. > :49:18.Valley airport. Any development there? It has been bought by People
:49:18. > :49:27.who used to be dealers. They are pushing ahead with an advertising
:49:27. > :49:32.drive and looking for support across Teesside. We wanted to be
:49:32. > :49:40.excess it and hopefully it can be. Do people in North Yorkshire Cup --
:49:40. > :49:45.care about this airport bar do they wanted us go to Bradford?
:49:45. > :49:49.Improvements are being made which is fantastic. I cannot see it
:49:49. > :49:54.released are making much of a note in North Yorkshire. We're very well
:49:54. > :49:56.served by Leeds-Bradford. That's about it for months. If you live in
:49:56. > :50:00.Newcastle and would like to get involved in the debate over an
:50:01. > :50:05.elected mayor, there is a good opportunity tomorrow lunchtime. I
:50:05. > :50:11.will be taking the debate to the city centre and looking for people
:50:11. > :50:16.who wish to put questions towards both the yes and No campaigns. If
:50:16. > :50:21.he still need to make up your mind, it make a worthwhile coming along.