:01:42. > :01:45.In the North East and Cumbria: They pride themselves for being at
:01:45. > :01:48.the heart of their communities but fewer of us are buying local
:01:48. > :01:58.newspapers. Should the Government step in to ensure their survival?
:01:58. > :01:58.
:01:58. > :35:26.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2007 seconds
:35:26. > :35:29.Welcome to your local part of the show for the North East and Cumbria.
:35:29. > :35:33.Coming up: Can our local press survive in the
:35:33. > :35:36.internet age? We ask the owners of the Hartlepool Mail and the South
:35:36. > :35:39.Shields Gazette why they are moving some of their staff to Sunderland.
:35:39. > :35:48.My guests are Berwick MP Sir Alan Beith and Newcastle East's Nick
:35:48. > :35:52.Brown. It may not be much of a talking
:35:52. > :35:54.point in the pubs of North Shields or at the supermarket check-out in
:35:54. > :35:57.Middlesbrough, but the Government's plan to create a smaller and more
:35:57. > :36:00.democratic House of Lords will be one of the big issues at
:36:00. > :36:03.Westminster. But is it a distraction? What impression did
:36:03. > :36:07.the rest of the Queen's Speech make on voters? We gathered some views
:36:07. > :36:13.in Cockermouth. Dani did to concentrate on the
:36:13. > :36:18.economy, never mind about anything else. -- they need to. There is
:36:18. > :36:23.nothing making any great difference. It is not going to make a deal of
:36:23. > :36:30.difference to the man in the street. I am more interested in jobs and
:36:30. > :36:36.the economy to be almost. They have to do something good for the people.
:36:36. > :36:40.-- to be honest. The have got nothing in common with people from
:36:40. > :36:44.anywhere in the countries in the South East. It is just an absolute
:36:44. > :36:47.disaster. Even some Conservatives were not
:36:47. > :36:53.that impressed with the new legislative programme. James Airie
:36:53. > :36:58.is a county councillor in Cumbria. I am a bit disappointed. There are
:36:58. > :37:01.some good things in there that I welcome. There are some things in
:37:01. > :37:06.there that would cut bureaucracy and that is welcome. It was
:37:06. > :37:11.tempered a bit with some gives to the Liberals on parental leave and
:37:11. > :37:16.things like that. Some daft stuff in there, but there is not much
:37:16. > :37:19.meat on the bones. Let us talk about some of that now.
:37:19. > :37:23.Lord Inglewood, from Hutton in the Forest, is a hereditary peer who
:37:23. > :37:30.sits in the Lords, but none of us know for how much longer. He joins
:37:30. > :37:34.me from our Carlisle studio. Are these people right, is the
:37:34. > :37:40.House of Lords irrelevant? And no, they are not right. The problem
:37:40. > :37:45.that we face is not that things could be done that would improve it,
:37:45. > :37:50.because nobody knows what they are trying to do and how it relates to
:37:50. > :37:54.the rest of Parliament. Until that has been clear in the minds of
:37:54. > :38:04.people, it seems silly to suggest a reaffirmation of the House of Lords.
:38:04. > :38:09.What would you like to see happen? -- a wee formation of the House of
:38:09. > :38:14.Lords. I do not know what should happen. The difficulty is that the
:38:14. > :38:22.it seems to be no degree of consensus about what sort of
:38:22. > :38:26.parliament we want. Do we want a parliament where you have two
:38:26. > :38:34.chambers acting as a check and balance on each other, or do you
:38:34. > :38:39.want an elected chamber? Are you looking for a second chamber that
:38:39. > :38:43.is very much more like a committee of wise men revising and amending
:38:43. > :38:51.the House of Commons? In that case, you what to get people with
:38:51. > :38:55.experience and knowledge in it. There are two different models,
:38:55. > :39:00.either one would be acceptable. We have to decide what to do. The if
:39:00. > :39:06.they go down the elected route, would you put yourself up to - a
:39:06. > :39:10.prop for election? I have wondered about it. I might. I would be in my
:39:10. > :39:14.early 60s by the time the election came along and I do not know if
:39:14. > :39:18.that there would be a need for me to start. Maybe someone a bit more
:39:18. > :39:23.long in the tooth might be more desirable. Is this just going to
:39:23. > :39:30.get bogged down more by your colleagues? I anticipate that if it
:39:30. > :39:35.goes ahead it will turn into a circus. That is also the view of
:39:35. > :39:43.commentators. Thank you very much. Alan Beith, this is the big idea of
:39:43. > :39:47.your party. It was in the manifestos of all three parties.
:39:47. > :39:52.There was an interesting point made about age. There are more people
:39:52. > :39:57.under -- over 90 in the House of Lords then there are under 40. It
:39:57. > :40:00.is not the top priority of the Government. The reason it came into
:40:00. > :40:03.existence is to sort that the economy, and that was the first
:40:03. > :40:09.line in the Queen's Speech. But does not stop you getting on with
:40:09. > :40:18.the ordinary jobs. -- that does not stop you. Politicians love talking
:40:18. > :40:22.about these sort of issues. What will count over the next two years
:40:23. > :40:29.is how Ministers deal with the challenges in the economy, and that
:40:29. > :40:33.goes hand-in-hand with the process in Parliament, passing various laws.
:40:33. > :40:37.In the case of the House of Lords, there has been a joint committee
:40:37. > :40:41.which has gone to considerable lengths, and there is a consensus
:40:41. > :40:46.that we need to not be a rival to the House of Commons, but a
:40:46. > :40:50.revising chamber. There has to be some kind of legitimacy. Every
:40:50. > :41:00.party has said that will supply in politics aside, what is the best
:41:00. > :41:14.
:41:14. > :41:24.Beach Boys that I thought Lord Inglewood -- Beach Boys, I thought
:41:24. > :41:27.
:41:27. > :41:31.that Lord Inglewood expressed in You could take the reform process
:41:31. > :41:40.that Tony Blair took for a word when he was Prime Minister and have
:41:40. > :41:44.an appointed assembly that is not ultimately a decision-making body
:41:44. > :41:50.to check and advise and revise what the House of Commons does. Why it
:41:50. > :41:57.would you prefer? I prefer the sex -- what would you prefer? I prefer
:41:57. > :42:03.the second option. As a member of the House of Commons, obviously, I
:42:03. > :42:06.am very protective. Let's move on from the House of Lords. What is
:42:06. > :42:10.there in the Queen's Speech that will make a difference and the
:42:10. > :42:14.lives of people that you represent? We never want to get into a
:42:14. > :42:18.situation which has caused so many people so much hardship where the
:42:18. > :42:22.big banks of this country are too big to fail. This is something
:42:22. > :42:26.events cable has pressed so strongly about. We are determined
:42:26. > :42:34.that banks will have to separate the gambling activity of the
:42:34. > :42:37.investment side. People see that as very valuable. People do not see
:42:37. > :42:44.much in the Queen's Speech. They wonder what will get the economy
:42:45. > :42:49.going. Passing more loss is not what they want. An effective
:42:49. > :42:55.government, it is not about whether you can pass more loss, most
:42:55. > :42:58.businesses like to have a few laws. What they wanted the opportunity to
:42:58. > :43:06.get on with economic stability, which the coalition is seeking to
:43:06. > :43:12.provide. This gives the Government room to concentrate on the economy,
:43:12. > :43:18.doesn't it? At in the Queen's speech was largely a displacement
:43:18. > :43:22.activity. Better I think the Queen's Speech. We have to -- I
:43:22. > :43:32.think the Queen's speech was largely a displacement activity. We
:43:32. > :43:32.
:43:32. > :43:37.have a tricky challenge but it could be met. There is a way to
:43:37. > :43:46.stimulate economic activity and lend money to businesses in our
:43:46. > :43:51.country and strengthen our tax base. What was laid out in the Queen's
:43:51. > :43:58.Speech would make it easier to sack people. But it would help them
:43:58. > :44:03.create jobs, wouldn't they? Howdahs sacking people help create jobs? It
:44:03. > :44:09.does not. -- How does sacking people help create jobs? It does
:44:09. > :44:14.not. This is what I have been saying to both governments for a
:44:14. > :44:18.long time. There needs to be a better understanding of whether
:44:18. > :44:23.they are up to the job. It makes it difficult to part with people. That
:44:23. > :44:28.is the message that has been delivered. Another thing that will
:44:28. > :44:32.help working families is trying to enable people to share out parental
:44:32. > :44:40.leave between both partners and reducing the tax on working
:44:40. > :44:42.families by raising the tax It is tough for local newspapers.
:44:42. > :44:45.Circulations have fallen dramatically in recent years, with
:44:45. > :44:48.advertisers taking much of their business online. It has forced some
:44:48. > :44:50.papers like the Scarborough Evening News to turn themselves into weekly
:44:50. > :44:54.publications. Others are shutting town centre offices or reducing
:44:54. > :44:57.staff to cut costs. Many fear a vital part of community life could
:44:57. > :45:05.be lost if local papers are forced to close. So is it time for the
:45:05. > :45:12.Government to step in to ensure their survival?
:45:12. > :45:15.For almost 140 years, this paper has been a part of northeast wife.
:45:15. > :45:25.The technology might have changed, but the because of the paper
:45:25. > :45:26.
:45:26. > :45:30.remains the same. -- A Part of a North East life. We still
:45:30. > :45:36.thankfully have communities in the North East and community spirit is
:45:36. > :45:41.still alive. Fewer people in the community are actually buying the
:45:41. > :45:46.paper. In the last year, the Sunderland ago has lost 10 % of its
:45:46. > :45:52.sales, and it is not alone. The Hartlepool Mail and the Newcastle
:45:52. > :45:58.Journal have all seen such elation fall by 10 % or more. It is not --
:45:58. > :46:05.circulation fall. It is not all bad. There has been an increase in
:46:05. > :46:09.people visiting the websites of newspapers. I am going to hand over
:46:09. > :46:16.money to actually read a newspaper. That means newspapers are having to
:46:16. > :46:21.change. The group that owns the Sunderland ago are ready Prince the
:46:21. > :46:25.South Shields Gazette in Sunderland, but now some staff will be moving
:46:25. > :46:30.to cut costs. The local offices will become smaller, but the
:46:30. > :46:34.company says it is not the beginning of the end.
:46:34. > :46:40.Investment in journalism on the ground in local communities, the
:46:40. > :46:44.investment in still having print projects, print projects are the
:46:44. > :46:49.most important things in the business. It is still there. It
:46:49. > :46:54.does not feel like a crisis. Yes, there are a few challengers, but
:46:54. > :46:59.there are some exciting things ahead as well. -- a few challengers.
:46:59. > :47:02.Local MPs are concerned that the papers are getting less local.
:47:02. > :47:11.sure that the editor and reporter has will continue to be at the
:47:11. > :47:15.heart of the shields community, but I think that the big sign above the
:47:15. > :47:19.Office sent a very bad message, and I will be talking to the council
:47:19. > :47:23.and the owners of the paper about what can be done. Local people who
:47:23. > :47:28.want a local newspaper are being let down by these big businesses
:47:29. > :47:33.and decisions are being taken about our local newspapers. Sometimes
:47:33. > :47:38.decisions about South Shields are made in London, and sometimes even
:47:38. > :47:43.in New York. There are some who -- there are some who think it is time
:47:43. > :47:53.for help, not criticism. The government has been considering
:47:53. > :47:54.
:47:54. > :47:58.putting traffic notices in local newspapers. Ministers should look
:47:58. > :48:03.creatively about what benefits and help and support local newspapers
:48:03. > :48:10.can be given. Local newspapers are very important to local democracy.
:48:10. > :48:13.Who is going to hold the MP for the council to account? We are still
:48:13. > :48:17.the organisation that has the resource on the ground to do that.
:48:17. > :48:22.That somehow needs to be protected but we just have to be very careful
:48:22. > :48:26.about editorial independence. Decade after decade, newspapers
:48:26. > :48:31.have had to move with the times. The question is, without extra help,
:48:31. > :48:36.are they now set to become just a part of history.
:48:36. > :48:41.We have the chairman of Cumbrian Newspapers with us. Is this an
:48:41. > :48:51.industry that is dying a slow but inevitable Bath, Lord Inglewood?
:48:51. > :48:51.
:48:51. > :48:55.do not been so. -- inevitable death. I do not think so. The challenge
:48:56. > :49:00.for a local newspaper companies is that the news is not transmitted in
:49:00. > :49:06.a different way, and we are in the middle of a revelation and it is
:49:06. > :49:10.making it very difficult to see where we will end up. I do not
:49:10. > :49:13.think we are going to move into a world where there is no demand for
:49:13. > :49:17.local news and consent and where people are not prepared to pay for
:49:17. > :49:22.it, but the whole business model that we had known for many years is
:49:22. > :49:27.changing. Things are exacerbated by the fact that we are in the middle
:49:27. > :49:32.of a recession. Do newspapers need help from the government or is it
:49:32. > :49:35.up to them to find a model that works? There is an VAT rating on
:49:35. > :49:41.newspapers and I think it would be a mistake if that was removed.
:49:41. > :49:44.Having said that, and we look at this in the House of Lords, we did
:49:44. > :49:50.not feel that in the United Kingdom, with our political traditions, it
:49:50. > :49:55.was appropriate for correct government -- for direct government
:49:55. > :50:01.intervention. Having said that, it is important that the tax regime
:50:01. > :50:06.does enable newspapers to be able as they evolve. You do not what
:50:06. > :50:12.taxation to be the cause of the collapse. Thank you very much. Sir
:50:12. > :50:17.Alan Beith, this has changed the way things are working in Berwick.
:50:17. > :50:24.Are you confident that the Government is committed to keeping
:50:24. > :50:29.papers like this open? We now own the newspapers in Berwick. They are
:50:29. > :50:34.very important to us. It looks as though each of the newspapers is
:50:34. > :50:37.reasonably secured, but as Lord Inglewood says, we are in a
:50:37. > :50:41.changing world. Quite a lot of younger people are choosing other
:50:41. > :50:45.media to get their information rather than newspapers. How fast
:50:45. > :50:49.that there will go, we are not quite sure. I think the paper
:50:49. > :50:53.newspaper has quite a future for some time. I think we should not
:50:53. > :50:57.get into a situation where the government has to subsidise
:50:57. > :51:00.newspapers to encourage them to read them rather than social media
:51:00. > :51:09.because that leads to a very unhealthy relationship between the
:51:09. > :51:18.government and the press. Art local newspapers en essential part of
:51:18. > :51:23.life in Newcastle? Yes. I may have had different views when I was
:51:23. > :51:26.younger but I do now think that a free press is very important to a
:51:26. > :51:36.parliamentary democracy. These are private sector businesses and they
:51:36. > :51:38.
:51:38. > :51:41.have to adjust. They have to adjust... Respect my age! They have
:51:41. > :51:45.to address changing trends in the market place. You cannot order
:51:45. > :51:49.people to buy newspapers and you cannot order people to advertise
:51:49. > :51:53.what newspapers. They perform an important local function and they
:51:53. > :52:01.are things that the state should do. Statutory advertisements should be
:52:01. > :52:04.put in local newspapers. Adding Lord Inglewood was quite right to
:52:04. > :52:14.mention the -- I think Lord Inglewood was quite right to
:52:14. > :52:20.mention the zero rating on printed material. He could do the same for
:52:20. > :52:30.printed material that he does for food. We should argue an exemption
:52:30. > :52:35.for local newspapers. For they are often the bottom line, local papers,
:52:35. > :52:39.aren't they? They are not going to produce money from activities some
:52:39. > :52:44.other place in the world to pay for it newspapers that people do not
:52:44. > :52:53.buy. The newspaper has got to be a viable product that people will buy
:52:53. > :52:58.and the staff of the newspaper has If local news is your thing, you
:52:58. > :53:04.will not want to mix what is coming next. - Never miss what is coming
:53:04. > :53:12.next. It is the 60 -- you will not want to miss what is coming up next.
:53:12. > :53:16.It is the 62nd update. 5,000 people have signed a petition to cut
:53:16. > :53:26.library hours. Durham County Council is trying to keep 11
:53:26. > :53:32.
:53:32. > :53:39.Civil servants have taken strike it -- strike action on Thursday in
:53:39. > :53:49.protest at changes to their pensions. The eldest person in my
:53:49. > :53:54.unit will have to pay about 70 % more. Spree six factories are going
:53:54. > :54:00.to be shut -- where there is six factories are going to be shot.
:54:00. > :54:10.Entries are paid for two and fashionable end attributes are paid
:54:10. > :54:15.
:54:15. > :54:23.You are one of the successors as Newcastle MP. House and have gained
:54:23. > :54:29.a figure was he? Ted was very well thought. He was Chief Whip to
:54:29. > :54:34.Harold Wilson in 1964 and he has left an account of those times in a
:54:34. > :54:39.book. The book not only shows you just how skilfully he managed a
:54:39. > :54:44.very difficult job, but also the fundamental decency of the man
:54:44. > :54:48.shines through. We're going to have to be brief. You have spent some
:54:48. > :54:53.times in the Commons with him. was one of the old school.
:54:53. > :54:58.Courteous, dignified and passionate about education in our region.
:54:58. > :55:02.Thank you very much. That is all from us. Check out my blog. Why not