:01:32. > :01:36.In the North East and Cumbria: Can police budgets really be cut
:01:36. > :01:41.without crime rising? In Cumbria they are stopping the public going
:01:41. > :01:51.into their local police stations. Will it work? Find out more at
:01:51. > :01:51.
:01:51. > :30:16.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1704 seconds
:30:16. > :30:20.Hello and a warm welcome to the local part of the show.
:30:20. > :30:26.Coming up: Is it time to set up a network of North East banks to help
:30:26. > :30:30.drive investment into the region's businesses? Local banks work in
:30:30. > :30:33.Germany so was it a model we should follow you? Hexham MP Guy Opperman
:30:33. > :30:39.is one of those who believes in breaking the stranglehold of the
:30:39. > :30:44.big four banks. He joins me in the studio. And also you to talk
:30:44. > :30:50.through the week's political news is the medals for up South MP Tom
:30:50. > :30:54.Blenkinsop. First - how do you maintain a frontline policing when
:30:54. > :30:58.budgets are being dramatically cut back? Well in Cumbria one solution
:30:58. > :31:02.is to stop members of the public going into the local police
:31:02. > :31:06.stations to report a crime are handover loss proper date. The
:31:06. > :31:10.police stations will remain, but the so-called front counter service
:31:10. > :31:16.used by the public will be moved elsewhere, perhaps to the town hall
:31:16. > :31:21.or fire station. It is all because Cumbria's forces need to save �20
:31:21. > :31:24.million by 2016, the equivalent of 20% of its budget. The Chief
:31:24. > :31:32.Constable says this is one a way of doing it without affecting
:31:32. > :31:36.frontline policing and Crump -- and crime funding. -- crime far to --
:31:36. > :31:42.crime fighting. No stone is being left unturned. We are looking at
:31:42. > :31:46.everything. What we're trying to do is to provide affair facility, that
:31:46. > :31:50.matches people's needs. But at the same time we are ensuring we are
:31:50. > :31:54.much more available through the telephone and internet so people
:31:54. > :32:00.can talk to us at a time that suits them and we can get to them as
:32:00. > :32:05.quick as possible. The trade union Unison represents
:32:05. > :32:10.the civilians who work in the police station. Re Brown is a nurse
:32:10. > :32:16.studio now. What are your concerns about this? The Chief Constable has
:32:16. > :32:22.to say that it will not affect frontline police. That is his job.
:32:22. > :32:26.In reality if you are going to close frontline services, how will
:32:26. > :32:30.it not affect the public? They don't just do with the public as
:32:30. > :32:37.they come through their door, they deal with lost property, found
:32:37. > :32:42.property. Especially in the tourist area, they get tourists coming into
:32:42. > :32:46.ask for directions. The elderly sometimes have communication issues
:32:46. > :32:50.so dealing with them on the telephone or a computer can be
:32:50. > :32:55.difficult. They like to going to the local station, they know the
:32:55. > :33:00.people behind the counter and trust them. They have already now saw
:33:00. > :33:05.some frontline services in Carlisle, there are already issues arising
:33:05. > :33:10.there because if you have none police staff delivering police
:33:10. > :33:15.services it is a grey area. Our staff have access to all sorts of
:33:15. > :33:19.systems. What do they share a what do they not sure? I can understand
:33:19. > :33:25.why it might appeal to some. At a time when finances are tight, it is
:33:25. > :33:31.a luxury. What it does not affect his crime-fighting. The frontline
:33:31. > :33:35.staff don't just do customer or services. The deal with petty cash,
:33:35. > :33:41.they deal with their calls they provide many services. If they are
:33:41. > :33:45.not there to do that, if you want to pay over �30,000 for an officer
:33:45. > :33:53.to d'Administration, fine. I am not happy with my money being spent a
:33:53. > :34:00.way. The police are going to as the public about this. The priorities
:34:00. > :34:03.are bobbies on the street, it is not frontline staff. They are a
:34:03. > :34:09.good employer and the make the best of a bad job. They do not want to
:34:09. > :34:14.be doing this. I think it is important to get that point across.
:34:14. > :34:17.The public have this misconception that there is a big divide between
:34:17. > :34:22.the front line and the back of us. Without the back office, the
:34:22. > :34:27.frontline end up doing that work. That is not good use of money are a
:34:27. > :34:32.resource. Thank you very much. Guy Opperman, I will make it clear, it
:34:32. > :34:38.is not just Cumbria we're talking about. All police forces are being
:34:38. > :34:43.faced with tough decisions. Northumbria Police have lost more
:34:43. > :34:47.than 200 last year. Guy Opperman, is it possible to do that, to take
:34:47. > :34:52.those officers that without affecting levels of crime? We have
:34:52. > :34:58.done that in North Cumbria. You look at the statistics for a 2011
:34:58. > :35:04.and 2012. She has cut our budgets and cut crime, in excess of 10% for
:35:04. > :35:08.burgle rate, criminal damage and overall crime is down 8%. It is
:35:08. > :35:11.possible to be done. Speaking for myself, I would far rather have
:35:11. > :35:17.officers out on the beat and stuck behind a desk, sitting there all
:35:17. > :35:23.day waiting for a few people to comment. Tong Blenkinsopp, do you
:35:23. > :35:29.agree that it is possible to cut services without having an effect
:35:29. > :35:32.on frontline services? -- Tom Blenkinsop. This was a Government
:35:32. > :35:38.that promises evidence led policy. What we have as an ideologically
:35:38. > :35:42.altered policy, a 20% reduction which will reduce offices across
:35:42. > :35:50.the area. Her is there evidence that that will lead to an
:35:50. > :35:56.increasing crime? Within 2009 and 2010 crime was reduced under Labour.
:35:56. > :36:04.-- between. By 2015 you will see a 16,000 reduction in police officers
:36:04. > :36:14.in England and Wales so you will take officers out of 21st century
:36:14. > :36:15.
:36:15. > :36:21.levels. He thinks cuts will affect in his area. I would like to see
:36:21. > :36:25.why we can do things in North Cumbria. We have achieved constable
:36:25. > :36:31.who can deal with their cuts and deal with the crime. I would
:36:31. > :36:37.suggest a Lancashire officer he has will do what he is doing and ask
:36:37. > :36:41.why others can do it. Cutting front counter services, it is not just
:36:41. > :36:48.about frontline staff. Some of the staff take important burdens of the
:36:48. > :36:58.hands of those police officers. If you remove them, it is not as
:36:58. > :36:59.
:36:59. > :37:09.simple effect of reducing them. Tom Blenkinsop, you're shaking her head.
:37:09. > :37:11.
:37:11. > :37:15.You don't agree. By 2015, we will have 1000 less officers. We have
:37:15. > :37:23.already seen frontline officers in response teams been reduced across
:37:23. > :37:29.the country. Crime of when the person is up 11%. -- crime on the
:37:29. > :37:34.individual person. His policing worse in Newry area than it was
:37:34. > :37:40.before these cuts? Mine has improved. I would say the standard
:37:40. > :37:46.of policing has always been exceptional. We can always do with
:37:46. > :37:51.more police officer are maintaining those numbers. You can do more with
:37:51. > :37:58.less resources. I would argue by 2015 across England and Wales when
:37:58. > :38:03.you have less than 16,000 officers back to 1997 levels, you're going
:38:03. > :38:08.to see the effects on crime. speak to their Chief Constable of
:38:08. > :38:11.North Cumbria, she is sorting this out. Chief constables for all the
:38:11. > :38:15.sake, with the exception of Lancashire, they will always say
:38:15. > :38:20.that they will be able to do the job? No, I'd love you look at the
:38:20. > :38:24.statistics. You see that with the reductions that have taken place,
:38:24. > :38:28.crime has come down. This is the point that has been raised in the
:38:28. > :38:38.film. They are the ones that will save the objectives are going
:38:38. > :38:38.
:38:38. > :38:47.forward. Chief constables have dealt with these matters locally.
:38:47. > :38:51.Your Government has talked about dealing with these locally. How
:38:51. > :38:59.does it help the public? He there are good examples of the police
:38:59. > :39:07.going to that committee and holding some of their Texels ability --
:39:07. > :39:13.their accessibility counters in and supermarkets. We hold or surgeries
:39:13. > :39:18.in supermarkets. Thank you are more very much. It is the big players
:39:18. > :39:22.like Barclays, HSBC and Lloyds that continued to dominate her banking
:39:22. > :39:26.system. And they have come up and for some serious criticism, not
:39:27. > :39:30.least for failing to align to businesses during the recession. So
:39:30. > :39:34.is it time for a banking revolution in the creation of new local banks
:39:34. > :39:40.owned and run in the North East and Cumbria?
:39:40. > :39:45.This woman felt trapped by her debts. She signed up to local
:39:45. > :39:49.credit union in South Shields. you cannot pay then you go to the
:39:49. > :39:53.credit unit and tell them. They sorted out and another arrangement
:39:53. > :39:59.with you. Whereas the doorstep arrangement can get nasty with you
:39:59. > :40:04.if you cannot pay it. So it is very good. Thousands like her have
:40:04. > :40:08.credit -- benefited from joining Credit Unions. The Government is
:40:08. > :40:12.keen to see it expand. The Government has given credit
:40:12. > :40:16.unions more freedom. For the first time they can now pay interest on
:40:16. > :40:21.people's savings. They are also no longer restricted to one
:40:21. > :40:25.geographical area. So in theory the credit union here can compete for
:40:26. > :40:30.business anywhere. The Government's hope is that credit unions let this
:40:30. > :40:33.could be local bites in more than just name providing serious
:40:33. > :40:38.competition to that high street big names. Could they help hard-up
:40:38. > :40:43.businesses as well as individuals? I think it is. But it depends on
:40:43. > :40:48.where you are starting from. Some of the bigger credit unions already
:40:48. > :40:53.offer a full range of financial services. In Ireland they do in
:40:53. > :40:58.particular. If you go to Canada, they are indistinguishable from the
:40:58. > :41:04.banks. So it is possible but it is a very high mountain to climb from
:41:04. > :41:09.where we are at present. With many credit unions intent on survival
:41:09. > :41:13.rather than expanding it might be worth looking at alternatives. So
:41:13. > :41:17.why not at look at other alternatives. The Post Office ran
:41:17. > :41:23.Girobank until it was sold off. Some believe it is time to go to
:41:23. > :41:28.the back and make. As his local bank branches. We have over 100
:41:28. > :41:33.years of trust. People do not trust big bangs. We know the local people,
:41:33. > :41:36.we know why a local businesses, we know our local customers for. So
:41:36. > :41:41.we're not someone who's sitting down anonymously and saying we
:41:41. > :41:45.cannot do this are that. Government has no plans to
:41:45. > :41:50.reintroduce a full banking service back into the Post Office. Someone
:41:50. > :41:55.suggested racial abroad for inspiration to what the Germans do.
:41:55. > :41:59.-- suggested we look abroad. Most towns and cities have one.
:41:59. > :42:06.Many economists think they have kept German small business is
:42:06. > :42:13.healthy during the recess and -- recession. The big banks withdrew
:42:13. > :42:18.from their engagement in providing loans, especially to the smaller
:42:18. > :42:25.business sector. The co-operative banks and the savings banks which
:42:25. > :42:30.operate very locally, we're talking here about towns, cities, districts,
:42:30. > :42:36.counties not more than that. The provided access to finance and kept
:42:36. > :42:39.these companies running. The idea of German-style local banks is
:42:39. > :42:45.beginning to appeal to business leaders here. The head of this
:42:45. > :42:50.company thinks they could get vital finance flowing again. The existing
:42:50. > :42:56.banks, it is a tick box system for businesses. Often the computer says
:42:56. > :43:05.not. That personal knowledge and action between a business and that
:43:05. > :43:10.bank manager, no longer exists. That has disappeared. A new
:43:10. > :43:13.institution has the opportunity to build afresh. For the moment there
:43:13. > :43:19.High Street remains dominated by multinational names. Some believe
:43:19. > :43:22.the economy could be more -- could benefit from being a bit more
:43:22. > :43:28.German. You are enthusiastic about the idea.
:43:28. > :43:32.Will it make a difference? Yes. You could have a local bank run by that
:43:32. > :43:36.local community on behalf of that local community, lending solely to
:43:36. > :43:40.the local community, with profits going back to the local community.
:43:40. > :43:45.It is going back to how banking should have been. That is a bike
:43:45. > :43:50.that will be more responsive, more accommodating to that community
:43:50. > :43:54.lending and small businesses would thrive. In Germany, 70% of local
:43:54. > :44:00.planning -- banking is through local banks. Let's look at some of
:44:00. > :44:05.the potential sources of local banks. Credit unions, many are
:44:05. > :44:10.struggling to survive let alone taking on banks. There was a report
:44:10. > :44:14.this week that said many are on the edge. Hey yes, but they have an
:44:14. > :44:20.opportunity to expand and to be able to have a greater degree of
:44:20. > :44:27.products. My local credit unions are doing better. The Government
:44:27. > :44:31.has given a more opportunity to expand. The problem I have got was
:44:31. > :44:35.when the Government had an opportunity to launch another
:44:35. > :44:42.service. We saw the relaunch of the Green Investment back but that
:44:42. > :44:46.cannot lend or borrow until 2016. We're a moment of a three-year
:44:46. > :44:53.contraction in manufacturing when we have seen 1% of manufacturing
:44:53. > :44:56.contract and the Greenbank has missed an opportunity to put it
:44:57. > :45:04.near industrial clusters. We are setting up local banking
:45:04. > :45:08.organisations. Hampshire Bank has been set up by the local authority.
:45:08. > :45:12.You have our organisations that can do this because we have passed the
:45:12. > :45:18.Financial Services Act. That is breaking up the old system and
:45:18. > :45:22.providing more opportunities. one to be a long haul. Until
:45:22. > :45:27.Germany, -- talking about Germany, those banks have been established
:45:27. > :45:32.for 70 years or more. There is tremendous interest and there is
:45:32. > :45:35.tremendous opportunity to do this. It would be fantastic. You could
:45:35. > :45:39.have but a local bank in Northumbria which could lend
:45:39. > :45:45.locally and can be part of that the community. And banking was someone
:45:45. > :45:49.you can know and trust instead of a faceless nobody. I hope there is an
:45:49. > :45:56.immediate improvement to lending for small businesses at this moment
:45:56. > :46:03.in time. We have seen 11 pound reduction in lending. That is
:46:03. > :46:09.having an effect on small businesses. -- �11 million
:46:09. > :46:14.reduction. The Government had an opportunity to use not just
:46:14. > :46:19.localise banks but using their model of using societies around the
:46:19. > :46:26.corporate of model. There was a missed opportunity with the
:46:26. > :46:30.Northern Rock sale. There is the Post Office and there, Labour have
:46:30. > :46:34.plans to reintroduce banking there. In addition when it came to
:46:34. > :46:38.Northern Rock, it was sold off. It was turned into what you would like
:46:38. > :46:47.to be a local bank. A more interesting one is the Royal Bank
:46:47. > :46:51.of Scotland. When that his address, I would like it to be given -- have
:46:51. > :46:58.the individual branches given back to the community. Realistically, do
:46:58. > :47:03.you think that will happen? I think it is a real possibility. Everybody
:47:03. > :47:06.can see that the big banks are not lending as they should be lending,
:47:06. > :47:12.so therefore you need to address the problem from the other end of
:47:12. > :47:19.the telescope. A uni to get that capital back into the community to
:47:19. > :47:27.allow businesses to create that demand. More than 50% of small
:47:27. > :47:32.businesses had rejected over drafts. And rejected loans. That is due to
:47:32. > :47:36.the decisions of the Government now it and compounded by Europe.
:47:36. > :47:41.wanted to ask you about the credit unions and urea, could they be an
:47:41. > :47:50.alternative to banks? Potentially end their long-term. But that
:47:50. > :47:57.problem is now creating the problem now. -- in your area.
:47:57. > :48:03.It is the existing banks that we need to put a boost on. These banks
:48:03. > :48:06.are being set up. Local banks are being set up. I am talking about
:48:06. > :48:11.the high street banks. They are is tremendous pressure being put on
:48:11. > :48:14.them to lend. The likes of us to are going to individual bank
:48:14. > :48:18.managers to make sure those things are happening.
:48:18. > :48:22.Perhaps you have misstep that there was a certain Jubilee that has
:48:22. > :48:28.attracted all the attention of the last rigours. But some politics has
:48:28. > :48:32.also been happening. And once Emily Unia was packed away -- has packed
:48:32. > :48:37.away her bunting and finish of the last of a Union Jack cupcakes, she
:48:37. > :48:46.came back with this. The Week in 60 seconds.
:48:46. > :48:50.Sellafield in Cumbria is to close in 2018. It is hoped many of the
:48:50. > :48:54.hundred workers will be found other jobs on the site. Drivers on the
:48:54. > :49:02.Tyne and Wear Metro to crack -- strike action on Thursday after
:49:02. > :49:07.rejecting a pay offer. Unions said -- local MPs said union should have
:49:07. > :49:11.been balloted. They union leaders need to make decisions. As a was a
:49:11. > :49:16.revised offer I would like to see the union leaders themselves to
:49:16. > :49:21.make the decision on that. It seems rash. How many council should there
:49:21. > :49:25.be in Cumbria? The leader has invited the six districts to
:49:26. > :49:30.discuss the issue. He questions whether their current structure
:49:30. > :49:40.provides the best deal for residents. Quite a week for our one
:49:40. > :49:45.Newcastle MP. She is having her place stage this week.
:49:45. > :49:51.That is about it for us now. You can keep any tap -- you can keep in
:49:51. > :49:55.touch at any time through my blog. You can find that on at
:49:55. > :49:59.bbc.co.uk/richardmoss. You can get in touch by the wonders of Twitter.
:49:59. > :50:03.Those details are on the screen now. Next Sunday we will be talking